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Who to choose as your power of attorney · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
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  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
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  Speaker 2: of Cushing A. Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd,
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I am never better in you?
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  Speaker 4: I'm great? Thank you What he have for us this week?
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  Speaker 3: A couple of things I've got and we're going to
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  Speaker 3: go back to my old stock grounds. Again we've been
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  Speaker 3: there a few times. Oh Ohio, uh, And we're going
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  Speaker 3: to figure out And this case is more about which
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  Speaker 3: you know, which standard of proof applies, and say, that
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  Speaker 3: isn't really what I what I care about in this case,
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  Speaker 3: it's all about naming a daughter a power of attorney
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  Speaker 3: and co trustee on a trust that was a revocable trust,
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  Speaker 3: and then watching the daughter transfer money out of the accounts.
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  Speaker 3: And I mean, you've got to be careful, right, So
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  Speaker 3: we're going to talk about how to set up trusts
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  Speaker 3: revocable in this case, how to protect against this, how
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  Speaker 3: powers of attorney work, what assets they cover, what assets
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  Speaker 3: they don't cover. Yeah. I think a lot of stuff
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  Speaker 3: we can learn from this case. And that's why I
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  Speaker 3: did it, not so much about what burden of proof
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  Speaker 3: is needed to prove breach of fiduciary duty, but of
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  Speaker 3: course that's going to come up in this case. So
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  Speaker 3: still it's going to help us understand the planning aspects
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  Speaker 3: of it. Then we head over to an appellate court
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  Speaker 3: case in Connecticut, And in Connecticut, in this case, it's
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  Speaker 3: a situation where when can an ira be brought into
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  Speaker 3: the probated state to satisfy specific bequests that are made
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  Speaker 3: in a willow or can they be brought in? And folks,
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  Speaker 3: I think it's really important. We're going to learn a
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  Speaker 3: lot of lessons about how to deal with an IRA
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  Speaker 3: in your estate as part of your estate plan. It's
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  Speaker 3: not the easiest asset to deal with. Let's face it.
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  Speaker 3: Remember iras have both income tax components and estate tax components.
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  Speaker 3: So many people think, oh, it's an IRA, it's in
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  Speaker 3: your estate, it's taxed twice, So we've got to be
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  Speaker 3: careful about how to deal with it. And you know what, folks,
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  Speaker 3: that leads me really right to the new guide that
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  Speaker 3: we're giving away this month. First time ever on this guide,
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  Speaker 3: this simplicity of joint revocable trusts, and one of the
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  Speaker 3: reasons they're so important to use is the exemption is
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  Speaker 3: now going to be fifteen million in January one, so
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  Speaker 3: we don't have to give away stuff as much. We
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  Speaker 3: can win on the estate tax front by keeping items
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  Speaker 3: and then getting a full step up in basis on items,
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  Speaker 3: so we can then win on the capital gains tax front.
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  Speaker 3: So imagine saving forty percent at the federal level for
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  Speaker 3: a state taxes and twenty eight point eight percent at
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  Speaker 3: the capital gains tax levels. Huge win. Even if I
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  Speaker 3: got to give Massachusetts ten percent, I'm fine. And folks,
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  Speaker 3: when do we use them? Also, you'll learn how they
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  Speaker 3: work in this guide. When do you use them? Like
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  Speaker 3: in this case here large iras? How do you deal
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  Speaker 3: with them? This trust is the way to go when
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  Speaker 3: you have large iras as part of the estate. Folks,
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  Speaker 3: too much to explain, now, call and get the guide.
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  Speaker 3: You'll learn about it, how these joint revocable trusts work
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  Speaker 3: and how easy they are to use eight six six
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  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange
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  Speaker 3: Show again eight six six eight four eight five six
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  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange show dot com and learn
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  Speaker 3: how simple they are to use and not affect your
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  Speaker 3: life at all once it's set up. All right, enoughing
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  Speaker 3: about this, back to where we go in Ohio. So
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  Speaker 3: let's let's take a look at the facts of this case. So,
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  Speaker 3: after Kathleen dies her husband, I'm sorry. After Kathleen's husband
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  Speaker 3: dies in twenty twelve, Kathleen's alive, she signs documents naming
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  Speaker 3: her daughter Mary Beth as power of attorney. Doesn't shock
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  Speaker 3: me yet, and as co trustee on her trust. Now
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  Speaker 3: that makes me think twice, I'm like, what kind of
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  Speaker 3: trust is this and why do you need her to
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  Speaker 3: be co trustee with you? Well, you're alive. Not sure
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  Speaker 3: that's a huge issue, but she did it, okay. She
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  Speaker 3: then moves in with Mom and starts to care for
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  Speaker 3: her until her death in twenty eighteen. So the daughter
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  Speaker 3: Mary Beth then moves in with Mom again nice gesture,
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  Speaker 3: seems like the right thing to do. And then before
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  Speaker 3: Mom dies it's not clear, so it's until her death
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  Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen. She also managed to transfer Yeah, before
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  Speaker 3: her death, she managed to transfer money and real estate
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  Speaker 3: both and even mineral rights to herself before the death
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  Speaker 3: of Mom. How much about eight hundred and fifty thousand
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  Speaker 3: in cash? Wow? And real estate on top of that?
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  Speaker 4: Is she the only beneficiary?
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  Speaker 3: Thinking not, because in twenty eighteen when she died, the
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  Speaker 3: other kids file a lawsuit for what for breach of
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  Speaker 3: fiduciary duty, conversion fraud, classic undo influence? Like it right,
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  Speaker 3: mom moves in or Mary Beth moves in with Mom?
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  Speaker 3: Mary Beth Pross needs to take all the assets? Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I mean it seems to me to be a classic
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  Speaker 3: undue influence situation. And the court said, yeah, we agree.
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  Speaker 3: We're going to set aside five of the seven gifts
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  Speaker 3: that were involved and to order payment of eight hundred
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  Speaker 3: and sixty seven thousand dollars, including one hundred and twenty
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  Speaker 3: eight thousand dollars of interest because you might say, well,
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  Speaker 3: there's only eight hundred and fifty of cash. How come
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  Speaker 3: because there's interest, And however, we're going to allow one
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  Speaker 3: hundred and eleven thousand dollars of the gifts to stand.
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  Speaker 3: We'll have to figure out why they did that. Well,
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  Speaker 3: the kids weren't satisfied with that, so they appealed, but
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  Speaker 3: the appellate court affirmed and didn't change the burden of
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  Speaker 3: proof and didn't change the amount of gifts that were
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  Speaker 3: allowed and the huge amount that were not allowed. So
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  Speaker 3: what do we learn from this? Well, I think the
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  Speaker 3: first thing we need to learn is that when you're
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  Speaker 3: naming a power of attorney, obviously consider who you're naming.
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  Speaker 3: And maybe she didn't see anything wrong with this daughter,
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  Speaker 3: and you can't always know that.
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  Speaker 4: So I get it, temptation some people can't resist.
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  Speaker 3: However, when you're drafting your power of attorney, you should
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  Speaker 3: always check to see if it allows for self dealing.
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  Speaker 3: So it might say, yeah, the trust that there's a
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  Speaker 3: whole laundry list of asked the things that you can
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  Speaker 3: do right in the power of attorney. And remember they've
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  Speaker 3: got to be specified. So they've got this laundry list
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  Speaker 3: of things that you can do, and you know one
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  Speaker 3: of them is to make gifts. Sometimes it says to
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  Speaker 3: make gifts, but limited to the present interest exclusion, so
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  Speaker 3: you can only gift up to today, I.
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  Speaker 4: Think nineteen thousand or so.
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  Speaker 3: Yep, correct Susan, it's it's a nineteen thousand dollars amount,
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  Speaker 3: and so sometimes they limited to that. Sometimes they say,
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  Speaker 3: you know, my agent, Mary Beth in this case can
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  Speaker 3: make gifts to other people but not herself. Oh well,
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  Speaker 3: then that might have prevented some of this cash sure
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  Speaker 3: from coming out, So be careful and think about that. Now,
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  Speaker 3: what about this trust that she had. That's the next item.
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  Speaker 3: So the revocable trust, Kathleen, if it's her trust, she
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  Speaker 3: could probably take stuff and gift it directly to her daughter.
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  Speaker 3: If it's revocable, likely she could do whatever she wants
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  Speaker 3: to do. So if it was revocable, I'm not sure
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  Speaker 3: why we needed to add the co trustee on.
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  Speaker 2: Well, she moved in not long after that, so maybe
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  Speaker 2: she was starting to have signs of failing health or
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  Speaker 2: something at the time.
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  Speaker 3: Could be I mean, the trust probably could have been
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  Speaker 3: could have been a joint trust, just like our guide.
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  Speaker 3: If it was a joint trust, well then the trust
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  Speaker 3: would have became irrevocable. But Kathleen would have likely been
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  Speaker 3: the trustee as a surviving spouse. And you'll learn that
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  Speaker 3: in the guide, folks, how that works. And so again,
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  Speaker 3: she wouldn't need to name her as co trustee unless
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  Speaker 3: there was a capacity problem, right, But then if there's
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  Speaker 3: a capacity problem, there should be language and the trust
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  Speaker 3: that says upon disability or capacity issues, so and so
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  Speaker 3: will serve sure as co trustee. Now, so I think
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  Speaker 3: maybe that's where some of the gifts that were allowed
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  Speaker 3: might have come from. Now, with a near revocable trust,
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  Speaker 3: if you had named two kids on as trustee, you
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  Speaker 3: might have had a better check and balance over the
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  Speaker 3: money and the real estate. It would have been much
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  Speaker 3: harder to transfer real estate out when you have two
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  Speaker 3: kids sort of monitoring the transfers. So think about that also, folks.
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  Speaker 3: It's not uncommon for caregivers to be given something like
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  Speaker 3: you could take a house, put it in trust and
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  Speaker 3: allow the caregiver to live there and provide for that
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  Speaker 3: caregiver because you want to. So a trust could have
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  Speaker 3: done that if you kept the house in trust and
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  Speaker 3: just say, you know, the child needs to pay the bills,
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  Speaker 3: et cetera. So there's lots that you can do in
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  Speaker 3: this case. But clearly breach of fiduciary duty did happen.
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  Speaker 3: But do your planning, folks, get your stuff. You're ducks
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  Speaker 3: in a row. Get this new guide. It's the Simplicity
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lotsky. I'm
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  Speaker 2: Susan Powers of financial advisor with the Armstrong Advice Group,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Letsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing A. Dolan with a master's in taxation.
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  Speaker 2: Where are we headed now, Todd, we.
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  Speaker 3: Are going to go to Connecticut where we're going to
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  Speaker 3: learn about iras and when they can be brought into
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  Speaker 3: a probated state to satisfy specific bequests. I know you
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  Speaker 3: should be making that face, because it made me make
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: that face when I read this. Let's let's take a
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  Speaker 3: look at the facts. Ruben is a residual beneficiary of
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: an estate, so basically what's left over goes to Ruben.
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  Speaker 3: Of who's the state? Marcia Chambers is a state. Now,
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Marcia had made specific bequests set out in her will
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: specific dollar bequests set out in her will, and we're
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: going to talk a lot about dollar bequests versus percentage bequests,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: makes a big difference. So these specific bequests were set
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  Speaker 3: out in the will, but it turns out that there's
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  Speaker 3: not enough assets to cover them in the will. So
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  Speaker 3: therefore the residuary beneficiaries are simply out of luck. Why
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  Speaker 3: because you have to cover the specific bequest first. Okay, Well, Rubin,
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  Speaker 3: that poor residuary beneficiary, he's not happy with this, I'm sure.
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  Speaker 3: So he sues and says, I'm sure that Rubin claimed
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: that Marcia intended or believed that her two million dollar
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: IRA would be distributed through the will because she knew
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  Speaker 3: she didn't have enough money to cover the bequests, and
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: therefore this money must be used to make up the difference. Wow,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: that's a great argument. Never heard that before. Remember, there's
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: a designated beneficiary on the IRA, and the IRA's designated
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: beneficiary avoids probate and it goes directly to the beneficiaries.
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  Speaker 3: You're aware of that, Susan. You've probably done that many times.
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  Speaker 3: So the trial court says the will is not ambiguous
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  Speaker 3: at all. It has specific bequests. There's no need to
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: even bring in extrinsic evidence here. The IRA goes directly
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: to the beneficiary and we're not going to alter the
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  Speaker 3: distributions period, which I think is the right answer. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: But Ruben at residual beneficiary, who's out, it's not happy
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: about this, so definitely not so he appeals. Yeah, and
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  Speaker 3: the appellate court rightly so affirms the trial court and
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: says basically the same thing. Look, when you have a
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: designated beneficiary on an account like an IRA, it's pretty
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  Speaker 3: clear that's who they wanted to go to. It avoids probate,
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  Speaker 3: it passes directly to that person. Go away, Ruben m hm.
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  Speaker 3: And that's pretty much what happened here. Now. I think
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  Speaker 3: it's really important to understand that because iras this case
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  Speaker 3: two million dollars, it could be bigger, could be even larger.
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  Speaker 3: It could make up a big portion of the entire estate.
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  Speaker 3: And when you're planning as a married couple, I think
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  Speaker 3: it's important to understand how to handle the IRA, which
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: kind of brings me to the guide folks, the simplicity
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  Speaker 3: of joint revocable trusts, and it's I call it, it's
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  Speaker 3: all about the basis, meaning when you've got a large IRA.
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  Speaker 3: Let's say again you have you have like a five
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: million dollar estate, and let's say you had a three
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  Speaker 3: million dollar IRA, or in this case two, but even
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  Speaker 3: three if you then that means only two million dollars
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  Speaker 3: is available to be sheltered on the first death. And
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  Speaker 3: if I have to trusts a husband trust and a
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  Speaker 3: wife trust, and I put a million in each, how
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  Speaker 3: much am I sheltering on the first death?
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  Speaker 4: Only a million?
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  Speaker 1: Right?
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  Speaker 3: But Massachusetts, we have a two million dollar exemption. Wouldn't
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  Speaker 3: it be great if I could shelter two million on
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  Speaker 3: the first death?
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  Speaker 4: Sure it would be sure could if you have.
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  Speaker 3: A joint revocable trust. So for these smaller and moderate estates, folks,
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  Speaker 3: you have a joint revocable trust. The three million in
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  Speaker 3: the IRA passes to the spouse, and the two million
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  Speaker 3: in the joint trust are all included on the first death,
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  Speaker 3: getting a full step up in basis, and more importantly,
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  Speaker 3: sheltering as much as we can, in this case, capturing
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: the entire estate for Massachusetts of state tax purposes. There's
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: so many more benefits to a joint revocable trust, even
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: from the simplicity of funding it. Folks, call and get
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: the guide brand new eight sixty six eight four eight
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or legal exchange show dot com
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: again eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: nine or legal Exchange show dot com and download it there.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: All right, what are we gonna learn.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: Not to do? Sounds like you shouldn't be using dollar amounts.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Well, let's go. That's the first thing I've got is
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: tips and lessons, right, drafting tips and lessons. Whenever you're
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: leaving specific amounts to specific people and you're allowed to
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: do that, please don't leave specific amounts. Use a percentage
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: of the assets rather than dollar amounts.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: And then everyone would get something right.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: Right, because dollar amounts are always satisfied first to the
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: exclusion of anyone else, which you could end up disinheriting
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: somebody when you don't mean to. Now, let's take an example. Obviously,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: if you're saying equally to my kids, who cares, that's fine.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: But if you're leaving specific dollar amounts, they say, well,
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: how much do I want to leave? They usually tell you, oh,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: I want, you know, Billy to get you know, one
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars. Okay, Well, then you say, all right, well,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: how much is in the tw trust? Right? How much
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: are we putting in the trust right now the day
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: you're creating it? Okay? And you use a percentage. Then
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: you say, all right, well there's five million dollars and
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: there are four million dollars in the trust. You know,
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: one hundred thousand. Divide by four million. It gives you
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: a percent. That's the percent.
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: Thank goodness, you weren't going to ask me to do
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: that math.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Right, but that's how you do it. So whatever, whatever
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: it is, whatever the amount is that you want to specify,
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: you you calculate right then and there, and you say, well,
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: well that's that's not right. Well, sure it is, because
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: if you then say, well that turns out to be
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: let's let's call it one percent. If I want to
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: that number equals one percent today. Fine, If you live
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: a long time and these assets grow in value, well
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: then that person gets one percent of a larger number.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Doesn't hurt anyone else. But if assets decline in value,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: that person gets one percent of all all are number.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: But the point is in leaves charity, yeah, it leaves
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: the assets available for everybody else without disinheriting and that's
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: really what happened here. So it's an easy fix, and
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: I don't think the IRA was the answer, and these.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Were for people, and a lot of times when you
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: see those specific amounts, a lot of times it's charity.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: So you could leave money to charity and completely disinherit
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: your own kids.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: If you do that.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right. In fact, I have a real life
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: story here that we when clients come to me and
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: say they want to leave assets to charity, I always
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: tell them, let's use the IRA, because if you make
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: the I remember the iras not in the trust, but
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: if you designate the beneficiary an IRA to charity, now
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: you get in a state tax deduction and an income
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: tax deduction. So it's it's a better asset to leave
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: to charity and maybe make that specific bequest. So that's
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: kind of the example that I had there. But also
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: just remember in general they're trying to use the will here.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Probated assets are only assets that are probated is if
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: you die owning it in your own name with no beneficiary,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: so jointly held IRA tendancy transfer on death designated beneficiaries
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: they all avoid probate and go directly to that person,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: so they should never be pulled in here. Also, think
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: about it from an estate tax standpoint, Why would anybody
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: intend to have it go to the estate. If this
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: person was under seventy three, which is the required beginning
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: date for distributions, and you name the estate the beneficiary,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: it's going to come out over five years. Well, why
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: would I want to do that just to satisfy a
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: bequest in my will and cause the hugest income tax problem. Now,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: if it's seventy three or older, it's going to come
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: out over the ghost life expectancy of that person. So
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: maybe it's not a huge income tax problem, but you
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: have to think about the income tax ramifications when you
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: make these arguments. Yeah. Now, sometimes it's possible under the
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: new Medicaid with the new Secure Act, that you can
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: name the estate the beneficiary and get some both estate
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: tax planning and nursing home protection benefits. We talked about
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: that in some of our shows in the past. But
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: just be mindful. I don't think that she really intended
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: to have it go through the estate. Folks. Iras, as
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: you're learning, are complicated assets to deal with in your
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: estate planning. But boy, if you're going to if you're
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: going to do estate planning, get the Simplicity of the
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Joint Revocable Trust Guide because it works great with large iras,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: among other things. Eight six, six, eight four, eight five, six,
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: nine to nine.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Power as
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: will be answering your listener questions when we return to
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: the legally exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Estate planning isn't just about taxes. It's about peace of
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: mind that Cushing and Dolan. We believe you are plan
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: should protect your family, not complicate your life. A joint
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: revocable trust can help you do both. It lets you
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: avoid probate, which means no court delays, no public filings,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: and no stress for your loved ones. Your estate stays
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: private and your family stays in control. Our new guide,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts, also explains how a
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: trust can protect your children's inheritance from creditors, divorce, or
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: bad financial decisions down the road. This guide makes it
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: easy to understand why a joint trust may be the
• 24:27
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• 24:33
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• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Joint Revocable Trusts that's eight six six eight four eight
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  Speaker 1: five six ninety nine, or requested online from our website
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: in The views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 24:49
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• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other. In are not affiliated HI.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: This is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Your
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: home is about more than where you you live. It's
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: a big part of your financial life, and as you
• 25:02
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• 25:43
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• 25:46
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• 25:47
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• 27:27
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange, and it's time for
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer your questions
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: about anything and everything that's included in the estate planning process.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: First question comes from Susan and Rent the Mass and
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Susan writes, I am married with two minor children. My
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: husband and I own a home, have around three hundred
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: thousand in our four to one K plans, in around
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: one million total interm life life policies. We've done a will,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: but someone mentioned that we need more than that. What
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: would you recommend for our situation.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Let's take a gander at this again. So we've got
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: the qualified plan money of three hundred right, yep, that's
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: qualified plan money and our home. How much is the homework?
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Do we know? It doesn't say let's give it a number,
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: it'll help us with the six No, it's worth more
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: than that. It's worth a million. This is fans, it's
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: in rent them, come on, and a million in life insurance.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Is that about right?
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: Yep?
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: But no real investments. So we're looking at two point
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: three million. Yea, there's probably some investments.
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: The bank accounts or whatever.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's assume another half a million, okay, So we've
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: got two point eight million in total.
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: Assets, okay, and minor kids.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: And minor children. So in this case that's actually the key, Susan,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: And that's important for everybody that's listening, right, because they say,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: you know, when do I do planning? Everyone asks when
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: do I it? What kind of planning? Well, young people
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: need to do planning, right, young people. Maybe not because
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: it's a large estate. In this case, the insurance is
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: driving the estate, which I get. But maybe not because
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: it's a large estate, but because your minor children can't
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: own anything. Right.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: So if you both were to die.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Right, you could name a guardian in your will, which
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: I'm likely you will do or have done, because you
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: said you did a will, so I'm sure you've got
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: your guardian listed in the will, which, by the way,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: wills are usually poor over wills that put things in trust.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: Wills don't do much of anything but for a little
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: But for people with minor children, the will is hugely important.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Why because it names the guardian, so very important to
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: do that. Okay, So now I say, for the reason
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: you want to hear is yes, probate, Yes, the state tax.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: I'm going to come back to that in a minute.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: But most importantly, if you die, I don't want it
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: going to my guard gardian. I don't want my guardian
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: owning my house and owning my money. I want the
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: guardian taking care of the kids.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: But I want the money owned in trust. I want
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: the house owned in trust. I want language and the
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: trust controlling and dictating how these assets go, where they go,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: when they get there, how they get there. Yeah, maybe
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: a different trustee managing the money, sure, making distributions to
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: the guardian to take care of the kids, all stuff.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: That's that's stuff i'd probably want. So I think that's
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: probably the first priority here. So a trust a trust.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: And because of the size of the estate two point
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: eight million slightly over the Massachusetts exemption amount in our
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: example anyway, but even if it wasn't, I would still
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: do the trust because of the minor young minor kikes.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: So that's number one. Number two probate an estate taxes. Yeah,
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: I've got a state tax problem because your insurance is
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: driving the estate. So this way, if you look at it,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: I have a million, five hundred thousand dollars of I've
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: got a house worth a million and a million insurance.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: So there's two million, right and five hundred. I can
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: play with the three hundred. I can't because that's an IRA.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: So I got two point five million. And the joint
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: trust is beautiful here because if I divided that between
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: a husband and wife trust, right, I would only have
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: one point five one point seven. I don't want. I
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: want to be able to shelter the full two million
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: on the first death. And it depends on who dies
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: first because I got the insurance. But either way, folks,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: the joint trust would have been the way to go
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: for them. So I'm recommending for this folks a basic
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: estate plan which would include a joint revocable trust for
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: them and folks, that's what the guide is all about
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: this month. It's the simplicity of a joint revocable trust.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: It explains to you how easy it is to fund
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: the trust. It gives you an example as to how
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: the estate taxes are calculated and saved. It even gives
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: you an example as to why gifting is not always
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: better than dying owning. It talks about step up in
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: basis and explains how this trust can get you a
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: double step up in basis and still provide for the
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: family and overall just make it so much easier for you.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Fund it, easily, set it, forget it, live your life,
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: and take care of all of these estate planning issues
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: that you have. Call and get it it's brand new
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six six
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Show dot com and download it there.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Fred and mend and Mass
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: and Fred writes, I would like to lend one of
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: my children some money to purchase a home. Can I
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: lend him money from my living trust, which I'm assuming
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: is a revocable trust?
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: Now I hate when they say living trust. I know
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: what that means.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Can I automatically forgive this loan if I die before
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: he finished is repaying it? I have two kids and
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: want to make sure things are split evenly. So I
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: guess in this case, would it matter if it's revocable
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: or irrevocable.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: No, I don't think it would matter whether it's to
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: a kid. Yeah, I think if it was revocable or irrevocable,
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: he could he could still make a loan, you know,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: to a child. Got it. So I don't think that's
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: that's an issue. But you know, the bigger issue is
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: he's seemingly talking out of sort of both sides of
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: his of his mouth. Here he's saying, I want to
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: forgive the loan, but I want to treat my kids
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: equally well.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: Which I think a lot of people feel that way.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but if you forgive the loan, if he dies, right,
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: so that's when you're dividing your assets, right, So at death,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: you're dividing your assets equally to the kids. But but
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: if you're if you're going to say, okay, there's an
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: outstanding five hundred thousand dollars balance on this loan that
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: goes away magically, Yeah, everything else gets divided equally. Didn't
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: kid get a five hundred thousand dollars benefit?
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: See, I don't read his question is that. I read
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: it as how do I still keep it? Evenly if
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: I want to forgive this loan.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, so I read it differently.
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: You came from a cynical lawyer's perspective.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Audience, exactly the way I always look at things. I'm
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: the worst case scenario guys.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Then let me look at it from the kinder gentler
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: financial advisors perspective.
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: So if we.
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: Want to ultimately treat the kids equally.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: How do we clear the deck of that loan and
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: still be fair in total?
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: I see, okay, so it's good. Well, I'm glad we
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: both looked at it. See that's what's important about drafting.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: When you draft, you have to be very clear about
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: what you mean. So likely in our intake meeting, my
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: first meeting with the client, when I'm getting to the
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: point where I say, how do you want to leave
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: your assets, and he would have already explained to me
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: that he has this loan, I would have said what
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: do you want to do with the loan? And it
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: would have came out. Then sure he would have said, well,
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: I want to forgive the loan because he might not
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: be able to pay it back, but I still want
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: to treat my kids equally with what you're saying yes,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: can I do that? See, as long as they tell
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: us that in advance, then in our document we have
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: language that's called there's there's a there's a paragraph in
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: every one of our trusts called a titled rather advancement. Okay,
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: if I'm not told about it, the advancement paragraph is ignored,
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: doesn't apply, but it's there in case we need it.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: So in this case, he would say, well, Todd, when
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: I die, I don't know what the outstanding balance on
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: the note will be because he's paying for it. Now, well,
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: that's okay. We simply just put language in there that says,
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: on the date of death, the value of the outstanding
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: balance on the promissory note to so and so child,
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: so grand, whatever the balance is on that at that
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: moment that's called one hundred grand is forgiven, but treated
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: as an advancement. What does that mean? On their inheritance?
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: On their inheritance? So what that means is and then
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: our advancement language kicks in and I'll just sort of
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: say in English, but that the way it works is, Okay,
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: we've got a million dollars in the trust equally to
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: the kids. Let's say we have three oh, but I've
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: got this hundred thousand dollars advancement language that I just read.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: That means we have to reach into the one hundred
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars bucket, pull out one hundred thousand for the
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: other two kids.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: First, got it.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Now everybody is equal, but there's only eight hundred thousand
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: left to go around. Well, that can be split equally, okay,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: so you kind of raise up the other people to
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: equal the amount of the advancement to take care of it.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: So it absolutely can be done. But again through a trust.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: You've got to make sure you plan for this and
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: you tell somebody. Folks can get the new guide Joint
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Revocable Trusts eight six six eight four eight five six
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com and you
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: can download it right there.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan I'm Susan Powers,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the Legal
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about taxes, It's about peace
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: of mind. At Cushing and Dolan, we believe your plan
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: should protect your family, not complicate your life. A joint
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: revocable trust can help you do both. It lets you
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: avoid probate, which means no court delays, no public filings,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: and no stress for your loved ones. Your estate's private,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: and your family stays in control. Our new guide, The
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts also explains how a trust
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: can protect your children's inheritance from creditors, divorce, or bad
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: financial decisions down the road. This guide makes it easy
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: to understand why a joint trust may be the smart
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: move for your family's future. Call eight six six eight
• 38:18
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• 38:21
  Speaker 1: for your free copy of the Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: or request it online from our website Legal Exchange show
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: dot com. The proceeding was paid for in The views
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: or investment services. Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong Advisory do
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: not endorse each other. In are not affiliated HI. This
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Your home
• 38:45
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• 38:47
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• 39:24
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• 39:27
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• 39:30
  Speaker 1: proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a registered
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any Armstrong
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: guide is specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult your
• 39:37
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• 39:39
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• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If
• 40:47
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• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Todd right now at eight six six eight four eight
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: five six ninet nine and let him make sure your
• 40:54
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• 40:57
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, or visit him online at Legal
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Exchange show dot com.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. Todd, I want to keep exploring further
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: the joint revocable trust that's in your new guide for
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: the month. Okay, So you go down the path you've
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: decided this is the type of trust for you. What
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: kind of assets should you actually move into your joint
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: revocable trust.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: Again, back to the funding idea and the simplicity of
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: the funding idea. Ready, everything except IRAS four oh one
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: KSE four O three b's qualified retirement money in general
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: doesn't go in. Now I say it doesn't go in
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: because the primary benefit can be a spouse, but the
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: contingent beneficiary might be the trust.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, well we'll explore that after. So my home, if
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: I have vacation home, what if I have rental properties?
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so, well let's pause there. So the answer, the
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: quick answer is, yes, your home goes directly into the
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: into the trust. And yes, vacation can go into the
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: trust directly, just like a home. But I'm sorry, rental
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: can go directly into the home. But if it's a
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: rental I might say, do you want to have creditor
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: protection from lawsuits tenants? If you do, then what I
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: would do is I would suggest you put the you
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: deed the property into an LLC so that the LLC
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: provides you with the creditor protection. Okay, but the owner
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: of the LLC shares yep. Trust is the trust and
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: just as a caveat, because it's a joint trust, the
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: shares are owned one hundred percent by the joint trust,
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: which makes it a single member LLC yeap. Why that's
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: important is because so many people, again not knowing perhaps
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: think that having an LLC is an administrative headache.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Well, because yeah, you have to do a separate tax
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: return for that, and you have to go through different
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: hoops to do like what you normally would do just on.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: Your own right. Everybody thinks this right, But if it's
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: a single member LLC owned one hundred percent in this
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: case by the joint revocable trust, which is another beauty
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: of having this trust, you now have no income tax
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: return to file because they are disregarded entities for income
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: tax purposes. Does it mean you don't pay income tax?
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Don't get too excited.
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: That's it's the magic wand we're all looking for here.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: Let's get it. Means we don't have to file that return.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: What we do is we continue to file our personal
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: income tax return like we always do, and right on
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: schedule E you put your rental property.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: So hold on a minute, because if I have my
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: assets in my revocable trust. Don't I need to file
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: a separate tax return for my revocable trust. Again, perhaps
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: a misunderstanding by a lot of folks. Absolutely not, because
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: the revocable trust everything you put in it, like a
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: brokerage account if we get to that, or a bank account.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Everything we put in it is titled not only to
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: the name of the trust. So let's call it the
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Lutski Family Trust, which is what I would call it.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: It'll be in my social Security number or my wife's
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: social Security number, so the ten ninety nine's will come
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: out in the name of the Lutsky Family Trust.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: But my social YEP. So I don't file a tax
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: return for the revocable trust. I put it right on
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: my ten forty, and I'm not filing for the ten
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: sixty five, for the partnership or for the LLC return.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: It also just gets reported on my schedule E ten
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: forty administratively simple, and no annual reports are needed or
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: annual meetings are needed for an LLC. Of course, there
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: is the one little issue of writing a check every
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: I think June to the state for about five hundred
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: dollars for the privilege of having an LLC. So you
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: take getting the business insetts you're doing business in mass
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: You got to pay them five hundred bucks, but it
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: might be an issue you got to write to check
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: it is tax deductible against the rent dollar for dollar, folks.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: That is really a great way of sort of looking
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: at the simplicity of this joint trust. It helps you
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: with LLCs, It helps from funding. You just take stuff
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: and need it to directly in. You don't have to
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: split assets. It no tax return due, and you get
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: all the probate avoidance, all the estate tax savings that
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: you would get, in fact, perhaps more state tax savings
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: than dividing assets between two trusts, because you can shelter
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: more on the first death than you can on the other.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: And you get a step up in basis. And I
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: can't even tell you all the all the benefits, folks.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: Just learn about this new guide, the Simplicity of Joint
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: Revocable Trusts. Call and get it eight six six eight
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: dot com again eight six six eight four eight five
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com and
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: you can download it right there.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: So Todd, you said that I can put my primary
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: residence in there. What if I have a mortgage on my.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: Home, Yes, you absolutely can, but it's this is really
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: where you were those questions. When we do the differences
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: between revocable and irrevocable trusts, that kind of have to
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: ask this question. So the nice part again, the simplicity
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: of these joint revocable trusts is yeah, take your house,
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: put it in, take your vacation home, put in. Don't
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: even care if it's encumbered. If it's encumbered, we don't
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: need to even tell the bank, okay, because it does
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: not you have not really transferred anything away. We have
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: the garn Saint Germain Act that says putting assets in
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: a revocable trust does not trigger the du on sale clause.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: And that's why you're asking the question. People want to
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: know about what difference does it make? It matters because
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: it could trigger the duan sale clause. Right, So, in
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: an irrevocable trust, when we transfer it into our medicaid trust,
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: if you have a mortgage, I reserve a life estate
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: and the deed, so that little nugget of ownership that
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: you keep prevents the bank from calling the note on
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: the du on sale or du.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: On transfer's not required the revocable.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, revocable, it's not even required.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, So if I have a mortgage currently, and let's
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: say someone's younger.
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: That's that's using this revocable trust.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: What if I want to I mean, what if I
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: have high interest rates because I financed at a high
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: interest rate time, and I want.
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: To refinance and you're in the revocable truth, I'm in
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: the revocable trust.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: What do I have?
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: Can I refinance while it's in the trust?
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: You absolutely can? You have zero problems. Well, every bank's
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: a little different. The worst case scenario you're going to
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: run into is the bank might say, okay, well, can
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: you deed the property back out of the trust to
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: your name personally, let us get the loan on it. Yeah,
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: and then we can transfer it. They'll even do it
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: for you. Then they'll transfer it back into the revocable trust.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: So after the loan is on.
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: Take it out or do the refinance and then just
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: slide it back in.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: Right. That would be the worst case, right, right, But
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: a lot of times banks are like, depending on the bank,
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: they'll be like, yeah, okay, it doesn't matter.
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: Because your trust is your social security.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: Now still you. You're still on the hook. You're still it's
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: still all you. So it really isn't isn't a problem? Okay,
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: zero issue. Good?
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: And I want to just jump back to one thing
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: that you said before. You would recommend it, if it's
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: a rental property, have it in the LLC for credit
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: or protection. Does that mean you can't get any creditor
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: protection with your revocable trust? Like if I want to
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: protect my kids inheritance when I die, well I need
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: to do something different for creditor protection for them for
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: their inheritance.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: Well, I was listening to you, and I'm going to
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: say I thought you were going to ask another question.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: So there's kind of two questions built into your question, Susan.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: One is, well, if I put my house in the trust,
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: since I had to do an LLC to get credit
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: or protection, well you're alive. No, a revocable trust does
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: not offer you credit or protection. Well you're alive. Right,
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: you get sued, You get sued. Your assets in the
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: trust are yours? Yeah, that's the beauty of a revocable trust,
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: no interference. It's not a credit or protection item. The
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: second question is for my kids. Oh, that's a different story,
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: whether it's a revocable or an irrevocable trust. When you die,
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: the trust becomes irrevocable. And yes, you are allowed to
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: get credit or protection for the children, so you can
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: still set the language up in there to have it
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: be a dynasty trust, move on and so forth and
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: protect from future divorces folks. The simplicity of joint revocable trust.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: It is a brand new guide. We've never given it away.
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: The BBBA passage really helps us understand why they're so important.
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: Call and learn how they work eight six six eight
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine to nine or Legal Exchange
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: show dot com and you can download it right there.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group. We thank you for joining us today and
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: we'll be back again next week on the Legal Exchange
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Isn't just about taxes, it's about peace of mind. At
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan, we believe your plan should protect your family,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: not complicate your life. A joint revocable trust can help
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: you do both. It lets you avoid probate, which means
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: no court delays, no public filings, and no stress for
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: your loved ones. Your state stays private and your family
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: stays in control. Our new guide, The Simplicity of Joint
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Revocable Trusts also explains how a trust can protect your
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: children's inheritance from creditors, divorce, or bad financial decisions down
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: the road. This guide makes it easy to understand why
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: a joint trust may be the smart move for your
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: family's future. Call eight six six eight four eight five
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: six nine nine right now and ask for your free
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: copy of The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts. That's eight
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: six six eight four eight five six ninety nine, or
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: requested online from our website Legal exchange show dot com.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: In are not affiliated.
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: HI.
• 52:00
  Speaker 7: This is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Your
• 52:03
  Speaker 7: home is about more than where you live. It's a
• 52:05
  Speaker 7: big part of your financial life, and as you head
• 52:07
  Speaker 7: into retirement, certain questions may come up. Does the space
• 52:10
  Speaker 7: feel too large or too expensive to maintain? Does it
• 52:12
  Speaker 7: still fit your needs? But the taxes, insurance and upkeeper
• 52:15
  Speaker 7: starting to add up. Our new guide Owning, real Estate
• 52:18
  Speaker 7: and Retirement offers insight into how to decide what's right
• 52:21
  Speaker 7: for you should you stay, put downsize, or relocate to
• 52:24
  Speaker 7: an area with lower costs. We cover those issues as
• 52:26
  Speaker 7: well as how factors like property taxes, insurance premiums, and
• 52:30
  Speaker 7: local living expenses can impact your retirement budget, and why
• 52:33
  Speaker 7: it's important to match your housing decisions to your long
• 52:36
  Speaker 7: term financial plan. Call us right now at eight hundred
• 52:39
  Speaker 7: three nine three for zero zero one. That's eight hundred
• 52:42
  Speaker 7: three nine three for zero zero one. A request the
• 52:45
  Speaker 7: guide at Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong make contact you to offer investment
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: advisory services.
• 53:00
  Speaker 5: Mark Vonner is the CEO of Veterans Development Corporation. Mark
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: is a career military man, having served for nearly twenty years,
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  Speaker 5: and we are so thrilled to have him and his
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: company as a key partner and the presenting sponsor of.
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  Speaker 6: The DAV five K Boston.
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  Speaker 5: Mark comes from a proud military family, including his father,
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  Speaker 5: Victor and his brother Timmy. Mark talks often about how
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  Speaker 5: serving his country was one of the greatest achievements of
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  Speaker 5: his life, and that's one of the key reasons that
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  Speaker 5: he chooses to give back.
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  Speaker 6: To this special community.
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  Speaker 5: Mark is honored to continue his legacy that his father
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  Speaker 5: started when he built Veterans Development Corporation. Working to help
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  Speaker 5: many disabled veterans and their families has become a lifelong
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  Speaker 5: goal for Mark and it's why he's taken the time
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  Speaker 5: to fully support the DAV Department of Massachusetts. You can
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  Speaker 5: join Mark Vonner and Veterans Development Corporation and help our
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  Speaker 5: great American heroes today by making a donation or becoming
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: a sponsor. Simply visit DAV five K dot Boston. That's
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: DAV five K dot Boston.