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Overcoming Fear and Discomfort: The Mindset Shift That Changes Everything · Business for Humans

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  I'm Jamie Gennaro, business consultant, coach, and founder of Practica Consulting.
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  In today's episode, I talk about the mindset shift that can change everything,
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  how looking for a job and growing a business require the exact same skills.
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  I'll share why overcoming discomfort is key, how persistence leads to success,
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  and why now is the time to bet on yourself. Enjoy.
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  Welcome, welcome. Today, I want to talk about marketing and sales.
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  And I'm not going to get into the weeds of how to do it or why to do it or tactics or tips.
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  You can find all that stuff in a YouTube search somewhere else.
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  But what I want to talk about is this idea that But if you are giving up on
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  something, if there's something you want to bring into the world,
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  and you need to get it in front of people,
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  it's going to take this level of effort to,
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  that people like to give up on. And the interesting thing is that you need to
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  do it for everything that you do. So let me kind of explain.
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  And I also want to say thank you, Susan, for this topic,
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  because as I was talking to you about it in a session, I was really thinking
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  about how we run away from discomfort and then we just run to a different discomfort.
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  So let me explain. When you run your own business or you have something that
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  you want to bring into the world.
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  So for my example, I run my own business and I also wrote a book and I'm trying
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  to bring that book into the world. So it's been written and now I'm like, what next?
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  And same with a business. It's like you dream up your business idea and then
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  you're like, okay, great. I've got this amazing idea.
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  What's next? and what happens is as
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  we start to bring these things forward and we
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  bring them into the world and we birth them into public the
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  public sphere we get scared right there's a lot of vulnerability and then we
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  get past the vulnerability and then we're into like cracking the code so all
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  right what do i need to do what mix of tactics do i need to to put into place
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  so what marketing tactics?
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  How do I get this in front of people? What are the ways that feel authentic
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  to me? And also we're going to speak to my people and my audience.
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  And so we go through all these things, right? And then we start working on that.
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  And then we're like, okay, it's working or it's not working.
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  And then there's pain and discomfort, right? We're like, oh,
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  we're a failure. We're a failure. It's not working.
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  And then we try other things. And then we're like, okay, those things are working.
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  And then those things aren't working.
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  So we go through this process of trying to get over each incremental hurdle
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  to bring something in to fruition, right?
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  And then some of us might hit a hurdle and go, no, that one's too big,
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  too difficult. I can't get past that one. I'm going to give up.
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  And when you're running your own business, you're considering running a business
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  or you want to bring some creative thing to life, what's interesting is like
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  our go-to when it's not working, it's like, well, let me just go get a job.
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  I'll just look for a job or I'm unhappy in my current job.
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  So I'll just look for another job instead of like starting my own business or
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  doing a creative pursuit or something like that.
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  So we move into this direction of like, I'm going to start my own job.
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  I mean, I'm going to start my business.
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  And then it gets hard. And then we're like, well, let me just get a job.
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  And what's so interesting is like, why is that easier?
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  Like, I just want you to kind of put this into perspective. When you go out
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  to get a job, you go on LinkedIn, you start talking to people,
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  you network, you have coffees,
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  you post on LinkedIn, you want to make yourself look attractive to the hiring managers,
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  not attractive, but, you know, attract their attention.
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  You want to come across as like a thought leader.
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  You want to make sure that what
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  you're messaging is resonating with the people who are looking to hire.
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  You send out like billions of applications, cold applications.
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  You have some warm leads.
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  Does it sound familiar if you've tried to start a business?
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  Does it sound like all the same things you do when you're trying to sell a product or a service.
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  Isn't that interesting? We go into this space where we're like,
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  well, this version of it is too hard, so I'm going to do this other version of it.
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  But what's ironic is going out and applying for jobs is the same thing as sending
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  emails to potential leads if you're in a services business.
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  It's the same thing as sending out emails to an email list if you're selling a product.
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  It's the same process. But there's this mechanism in our brain that's like,
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  well, that one is easier and this one is harder.
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  And I think that gap in between is our vulnerability.
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  When we go out and apply for a job, I would argue there's a lot of vulnerability in that.
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  There's a lot of failure and like feeling like a failure and I'm not good enough
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  and nobody's responding and that must mean something about me.
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  But for some people they're just like well that but
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  that's fine because it's a little bit external it's a little bit outside of
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  me it's not really like me putting myself on a platter it's just me applying
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  for a job I don't know I'm trying to find all the reasons why people think it's
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  easier because I think it's exactly the same I think it's the same amount of vulnerability.
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  It's the same amount of fear it's the same amount of self-doubt and insecurity
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  when you don't get the response you want from an application.
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  It's the same thing as not getting the response you want from a literary agent
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  or a publishing company or a potential client.
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  It's all the same. We're putting ourselves out there.
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  We're hoping it's going to get reflected back
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  in a way where it furthers us
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  and sometimes it doesn't and it
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  and that happens in job applications it happens when
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  you're looking for clients it happens when you're trying to bring
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  some kind of creative thing into the world right like if you're depending on
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  someone else to like grab the ball and run with it or help you get the thing
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  going like I'm looking for an agent because I feel like that might be the most
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  professional way to get this book out into the world.
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  But I'm also going to just do it myself if I can't get someone to bite.
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  And it's kind of the same thing with looking for jobs.
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  I throw applications out there every once in a while.
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  Never in my career of 30 plus years have I ever gotten a job from a cold application.
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  It's just, it's never happened.
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  I've gotten jobs from networking. Basically, that's the only way it's ever worked for me.
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  I've written cold emails to CEOs and hiring managers and, you know,
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  various different people at companies. And I'm like, I think I'm your person.
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  And somehow that's what swings doors open for me.
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  And maybe that won't work anymore now that we have chat bots writing our emails.
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  But that used to work for me. That's how I got most of my jobs.
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  And most of the jobs I went after weren't jobs. They weren't posted.
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  I was just like, hey, I've been following your company.
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  I see what you guys are doing. I think it's really exciting. I think I can help you.
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  And that's kind of what swung doors open for me.
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  I would say at least the last four or five jobs, that's how I secured them. And guess what?
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  My best mechanism for getting clients is a one-to-one email, not a chatbot email.
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  Sorry for people that are like developing those, but those don't work for me.
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  They don't work when they're directed at me. I never respond to chatbot emails.
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  They're so obviously chatbot emails. I really carefully craft my emails to people
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  that either I've talked to before in a consult call or people that are on my
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  email list or people who have come to webinars And I'm just, you know,
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  direct and personal with them.
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  Like, hey, I remember in the webinar you asked about this.
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  Let's get on a call. Let's chat it through and let's see where we get.
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  And those personalized emails are the ones that always get me the most business.
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  It's always how I've gotten jobs.
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  And it's the same process. So I guess I'm getting into tips and tactics.
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  But it's coming from the same place, right?
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  Like there's something I want to do. I need to basically send out a hundred
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  emails to even think that I'm going to get two responses, right?
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  I always kind of have this number in my head so that I don't take it personally.
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  I've probably sent 10 emails out to literary agents, and there are all these
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  different automated ways to
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  get in front of them, which I don't like because it's not very personal.
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  But you send these query letters. I've probably sent 10 and I've gotten two
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  rejections so far. And I think that's great.
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  Like, I'm really excited that they wrote me back. I just thought it would go
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  into the ether and I'd never hear from anybody again.
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  And it's amazing that I've heard from two people and I got two personal emails, more than I expected.
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  So now I have, let's say, you know, eight to go, seven.
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  Let's say seven to go. I only need one. I only need one yes.
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  So I'm going to send out another 10 and let's see, right?
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  But I'm making it a math equation instead of a, oh my God, I got a rejection.
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  What does that mean? I mean, there's like in the back recesses of my mind,
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  there's this self-doubting, insecure person from the past who tries to find
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  their way in. I'm like, no way, girl.
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  I dealt with you a long time ago. Get in the back.
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  And I keep trying to, you know, push it back because I really don't believe
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  it. I really just want to focus on the math.
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  I'm going to send out more and I'm going to get more rejections.
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  And I only need one yes. Just one yes. So if I set my goal at,
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  I don't know, I don't want to set it too high, but if I say 15 no's and, you know, one yes.
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  Then with 15 no's, I probably need to send out 30 query letters. And that's okay.
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  Like, bring it on. I've never done this before. So I also have to kind of embrace
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  that journey and not be in a hurry.
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  I need to take my time with it. And it's the same thing with job applications.
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  It's so interesting because I get into this mode where I'm like,
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  well, I'll just send out like 30 applications and whatever, you know,
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  and then I totally forget about them.
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  And then I get these rejection letters back and like, oh, I wasn't even thinking about you.
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  Like, I wasn't thinking about you anyway. So cool. I'm glad I got a rejection
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  letter and because I just remembered.
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  And sometimes those rejection letters are
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  interesting too because if they are not automated then
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  they might say you know we thought your application was really interesting you're
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  not a good fit for us but here's a link to you know a place or a job or an opportunity
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  that could be really interesting i'm a very senior person so these cold applications
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  don't work for me either because.
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  I really need to be having a discussion with someone about their ideology and
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  their philosophy and the way they want to run their business to see if I'm the right fit.
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  These cold applications, I mean, I always think it's good practice just to remember
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  how to talk about yourself and to get your CV in order and, you know, get your proposal.
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  I mean, get your website back up and your portfolio looking good.
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  I mean, I think that process is just helpful. It's like if you're an agency
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  working on case studies, like you need to just have that stuff fresh.
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  So I like the process. But sometimes I just get into that mode of,
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  okay, just send, send, send.
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  And I'm not crafting each application. I'm not crafting some amazing cover letter, right?
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  Which again, the chatbot's going to write for us, but you can zhuzh it and make
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  it personal and do some research on the person and reach out to them on LinkedIn.
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  There are things you can do, but when you get into that mode of just like heads
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  down, let me send as many as I possibly can.
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  I like the math part of it, but you lose the quality.
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  And I think that's when I'm trying to reach out to potential clients.
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  I don't get into that mode of I'm going to send 50 emails.
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  I go through the old lists of the people who I thought seemed really interested
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  or seemed like they were in the right place at the right time,
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  but clearly it wasn't exactly the right time.
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  But people who I felt like we made a connection and they really felt like,
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  they needed my help and it seemed like I was the right fit for them,
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  those are the people I bring back.
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  Like those are the people that I'm like, oh yeah, I remember that conversation.
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  That was a rich consult call.
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  Let me get back in touch with that person because maybe right now is the right time.
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  And I like being the person that's proactive about that too because with coaching.
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  It really is about timing because there's so much fear that goes into being
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  ready to embrace this journey, right?
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  You hire a coach when you're ready to get on this journey. And it takes effort and it takes time.
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  And the outcomes are great and grand and amazing, but it takes effort.
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  And not everybody's ready for that effort at whatever time you might connect with them.
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  So I like to be proactive because it's kind of like therapy.
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  You reach out when you're in dire straits. You
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  reach out when you're in like an acute situation and
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  then you kind of if it doesn't work out or you don't make
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  a connection with the right therapist you sort of like table
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  it because then things are better and you forget and
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  then you get back into that space and you're like oh shit I need to reach out
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  to someone but imagine if that someone just reached out to you and they're like
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  how you feeling and you're like I'm feeling like shit like I need some help
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  so I I like to to be proactive because I feel like it's helpful.
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  I'm not trying to be salesy. I'm like, is now the right time?
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  Am I reaching you at a moment where you are remembering that you're ready for
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  this journey? Let's do it.
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  So it's, again, the same process.
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  And if you just kind of switch your mentality of going after a job is the same as going after a client.
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  It might change that fear factor of going after starting your own business.
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  And clearly I'm talking to people who are ready to get out of a job and are
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  starting to look for jobs.
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  If you're in a job you love, just stay.
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  You're cool. But if you're trying to get out of a job and you're looking for
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  a job, but you also have contemplated like, maybe I want to work for myself.
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  Yourself just think for a minute what level
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  of effort is it going to take to go out and
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  cold call for a job and
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  what level of effort is it going to take to cold
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  call to drum up some sales in your business and don't think about i have to
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  drum up you know like whatever my salary requirements are if you're like i want
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  to make 75 000 this year how am i going to drum up 75 000 Don't think of it
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  that way. That is so overwhelming.
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  I think in terms of quarters, and then you can even dial it down to a month.
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  So if you're like, listen, I'm going to see if I can drum up some business. Like, I have an idea.
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  I want to drum up some sales in this business.
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  Don't invest anything. Just see if you can get some sales generated using the
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  same tactics you would use to go out and get a job.
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  Try those tactics on and tell
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  yourself i have a month i'm going to give myself four weeks
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  like obviously do the math you have to be able to afford
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  it but if you can afford four weeks give yourself
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  four weeks to use that same method that you would use to go and cold call and
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  network and have coffees with people and instead talk to them about a service
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  that you could offer and i think Services are just the easiest businesses to
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  start because there's no front end investment.
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  You don't have to spend any money.
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  You just go out and talk to people and offer a service.
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  So go out and do that for a month.
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  And see what happens. And then in your mind, just think about,
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  well, how much do I need to make if I'm generating revenue for next month?
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  You know, if I was going to make $75,000 after taxes, what does that look like
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  on a month-over-month basis?
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  Can I make that? Can I set my intention for these four weeks that I'm drumming
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  up business? I don't have to bring in any money this month.
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  But if I'm paying my bills for next month, what do I need?
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  Right? Like, there's your salary requirement, And then there's also like your
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  minimum viable, like I could get by on X.
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  And just go for that. And if you can do it, then see if you can do it.
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  You can do two months worth.
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  Right. And then you've got your first quarter dialed in.
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  But don't overwhelm yourself with a year of
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  business i've been in business for five years and i don't even
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  think that way i'm like on a quarter by quarter okay
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  time to drum up a little business like time to
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  you know i have retained clients but then
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  i have these kind of cyclical seasons where
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  i'm like okay now it's time now we're in
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  a new business cycle like time to go out and generate some
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  new business and then i can like ride it for a while and
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  then i go back out so i don't think in
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  terms of like i gotta land you know
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  whatever it is 75 000 euros worth of business right now i just think about well
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  what are the opportunities that are out there what's the potential can i can
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  i make sure that my cash flow is consistent and safe for the next three months
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  that's kind of how i operate my business.
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  And when I sit down to do the effort of trying to get some new clients in,
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  it's the same thing I would do if I was sitting down to go, all right,
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  let me get on LinkedIn and look at what opportunities are out there.
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  It's the same process. Like, let me set up some coffees.
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  Let me set up some conversations. Let me reach out to some people who are interesting.
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  Let me see if there are some, you know, HR directors who are looking for support.
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  Like that level of effort is the same as if I was going out and looking for
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  a job and I would be looking for the hiring manager, you know,
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  or the people who are in positions where I feel like I could support them.
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  I do the exact same thing. And I never realized this until recently.
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  And then I was talking it through with my coach and
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  I and she was like this would be a great podcast episode because
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  it's so interesting how we just make one
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  so much harder than the other and it's
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  so funny how we use this other I'm
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  just gonna go get a job as this like
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  scapegoat thing like
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  it's so easy it's not that easy I
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  mean I have to tell you like because of my age and like
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  my level of experience and my salary requirements it
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  is way harder for me to get a job than for me to land three months of business
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  way harder and I don't know I mean maybe that's just my brain telling making
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  of that story maybe it's not maybe I'm just not like in the right space to be
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  having the conversations with the right people.
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  But it you know your brain might go to it's so much easier to get a job and
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  my brain is like Like it's so much easier to find clients.
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  And it's the same process, right? It's the same process.
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  Some people have it unlocked, right? Some people it's much easier because they've done it a lot.
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  Like I was talking to a client and two weeks ago, we decided she was going to
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  start looking for a new job.
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  She kind of did everything she could do at her current workplace to make it
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  better. And she, you know, she's been doing executive coaching with me and we've
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  been working on boundaries and all these things.
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  And then she kind of came to the conclusion, like, this is not the environment for me.
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  And she's starting to look for a new job. But we had just decided that two weeks
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  ago when I talked to her in our session, because I do sessions every two weeks.
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  This week's session, she was like, oh, I already had two interviews.
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  It's like, what? I send out so many job applications.
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  I mean, whatever. Not that I'm trying that hard, but let's say all of the random
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  job applications I've sent over a year, I have not had one interview. you.
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  So if you're listening to this and you're like, I like the way Jamie thinks.
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  I like the way she approaches things.
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  She seems like a good leader. I bet she's a great manager.
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  Well, go tell your hiring managers that because nobody is responding to me.
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  So if you've been applying for jobs and you're feeling bad about yourself,
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  just let me be the one to tell you that don't feel bad about yourself because
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  I'm sure you've had more interviews than I have. if I'm like a very qualified person.
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  So don't use it as a way to beat yourself up if you're not hearing back from people.
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  It's really out of your control. And we don't even know, like we don't know
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  the process. We don't know the number of like AI bots we have to try to get
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  through before we get to a human.
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  So in any case, I just want you to think about this.
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  And if there's ever been a time when you've wanted to start a business,
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  and you weren't sure if you were going to be able to do it,
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  but you're really good at opening up conversations and networking with people
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  and getting jobs, I would just urge you to consider applying that skill to starting
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  a business and just see what you can do.
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  Like you deserve to try it.
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  There is no harm in trying.
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  Just like for me, like sending out applications, I am not really focused on
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  it or dedicated or really, quite honestly, I am not really looking for a job.
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  Clearly, that's probably why they're not responding, because I don't really
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  want a job. I just am going through the process.
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  So go through the process and just see what happens. Give yourself the opportunity
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  to just try it so that you don't have any regrets and you don't go forward into
• 23:59
  a new job thinking this is going to fix everything.
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  Why didn't I start my own business when I had the chance?
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  Just give yourself that opportunity. And I have to say like right now,
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  in the way that the world is going,
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  in the way that the corporations and the broligarchs are operating,
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  like let's get more small businesses to the table.
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  Like let's start shaking some shit up, right?
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  Like, let's make sure that we are creating some waves at this, like, smaller.
• 24:37
  Level so that we can, again, like start growing leaders and putting new voices
• 24:43
  out into the world and start shaping business and changing the way business
• 24:47
  has been run so we can really come forward with a different way of working, a different style,
• 24:56
  a different way of working with our colleagues and our team members and our employees.
• 25:03
  Let's get people thriving again instead of pushing them down and running away
• 25:10
  from paying taxes and all these things that are really like old school ways
• 25:16
  of running a business and old school ways of thinking and all this like let's get rid of DEI.
• 25:22
  I'm not even living in America and I'm just I it's just boggling my mind what's happening.
• 25:28
  So let's shake it up, right? Like be bold.
• 25:32
  If you've thought about starting a business, give yourself the chance to try
• 25:37
  it because it's no different than applying for a job.
• 25:41
  It's no different than trying to get your art up in a gallery.
• 25:44
  It's no different than trying to get a literary agent to promote your book.
• 25:49
  All of these things that we want to birth into the world, it all is the same tactic fundamentally.
• 25:58
  If we really believe in this thing. We really have a lot of passion for it.
• 26:02
  We'll open every possible door we can open before we decide that there's no
• 26:08
  way forward with this, right?
• 26:10
  Like, I'm not going to give up on my business until I've opened every possible
• 26:14
  door and tried every possible tactic and everything.
• 26:18
  I'm not going to give up because why would I? If I go out and apply for a job,
• 26:23
  I'm going to have to open every door over there. And I like these doors.
• 26:27
  These doors are exciting and interesting and stimulating and impactful and fulfilling to me.
• 26:34
  So I'd rather open these doors and as many as I possibly can before I decide that I can't do it.
• 26:40
  So I hope that inspires you in some way to think about things a little bit differently,
• 26:46
  to give yourself a chance to try it, to give yourself a chance to open some doors.
• 26:52
  And I'm going to leave it at that.
• 26:54
  Music.