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The Great Hack · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show, the world's most trusted conspiracy
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: dary podcast, with your hosts Adam Todd Brown and Olivia Hidar.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm your host,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown joining me his co host this week. Ooh,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: my favorite co host of all No co host, but
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: I do have a couple of guests. Case in point,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Jack Kelly's here.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Hello.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Jack. Have you ever been on Conspiracy the Show?
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: I don't think I have.
• 0:56
  Speaker 5: Actually, I've been on a few others, but I have
• 0:59
  Speaker 5: not been on Conspiracy.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Well, welcome to the big leagues. You didn't. Jen Scott's
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: here too. Weird that Hi?
• 1:12
  Speaker 6: Hi, Hi, Hi, it's me. I've been on the show before.
• 1:15
  Speaker 6: I know all the conspiracies.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Jen believes them all. Maybe not all.
• 1:20
  Speaker 6: Yes, that's well known about me. If you tell me anything,
• 1:23
  Speaker 6: I'll believe it.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Hey, thank you both for doing the pod. I appreciate it.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: We're talking about some shit today. We're talking about a
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: documentary called The Great Hack. Because I don't know if
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: people know this, but we are looking down the barrel
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: of our next presidential election right now.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: It is I don't want it.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Just a little over a year from now, and it
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: looks like we're still we, meaning people who aren't Trump
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: supporters are just riding with Biden again in twenty four. Yeah,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that's gonna go great.
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: The thing that doesn't translate, unfortunately for a podcast, is
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: just the absolute exhaustion and we dismay on my face.
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: I just don't know words for a lot of these
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: feelings I have, except for just like profound sadness.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah I can.
• 2:20
  Speaker 6: I can describe Jack's face in one word, and it
• 2:23
  Speaker 6: was distraught.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: I don't want to do this again, No one does.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we should just go without a president for a while. Yeah,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: like until we can figure out the rest of the government,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Like we don't need a fucking king on top of
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: everything else, Like it's all broken. We just I mean,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: maybe we do need a king. Maybe that's what we need.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: Maybe I want to be king.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: I just can't wait to be king.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I can't wait for you to be king. Honestly, thank
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: you so much.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: The world I ever wanted in life, it's the world
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: we need. The goals I know. I agree.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: I don't think I could do better.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people could do better than
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: what we have, right.
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: Now unfortunately, everybody that would and could do better has
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: no interest in the job because they don't want to
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: be president because they know how awful the job is. Yeah,
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: and anybody who wants the job has something fundamentally broken
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: in them, and it's.
• 3:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, no, that much power is awful and you shouldn't
• 3:26
  Speaker 6: want it. I'd be taking one for the team. I'd
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: be like I hate this the whole time.
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's what like Congress used to be,
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: was that people would basically like do their two years
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: in the house and be like.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: I don't want to fucking do this, and then go
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: back to their community like that was what you were
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: supposed to do.
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: And now people made a career out of it because
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: they realize what power it yields.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're covering a documentary called The Great Heck.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: It is a twenty nineteen Netflix documentary about the Cambridge
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Analytica scale. And if you don't know what that is,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I guess you have landed on the perfect episode of
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: conspiracy the show for you, because we're going to talk
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: about that by way of talking about this documentary. Cambridge
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Analytico was hugely influential in the twenty sixteen election, and
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of that happened on Facebook. And I feel
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: like enough people since then have stopped using Facebook that
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: it seems like this is less of a threat now
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: when that's absolutely not the case, Like people are still
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: using Facebook, people are still going to use it to I.
• 4:38
  Speaker 6: Guess it depends on what you define as people. Yeah,
• 4:42
  Speaker 6: when you say people are still using Facebook.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: What do you define as people?
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: I think that I think that millennials and Gen Z
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: have mostly exited the platform. I think younger gen xers
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: have also left the platform, but I mean that's where
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: Boom and older gen xers are still hanging out.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: So and they vote, and they vote.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: They vote.
• 5:07
  Speaker 6: And also, to be fair, Cambridge Analytica is a beautiful
• 5:10
  Speaker 6: name for a baby girl.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: It is a nice name, like, yeah, you should be
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: a musician with a name like that, not a company
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: that coming.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: To the stage, Cambridge Analytica.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: But instead they do psychological warfare against people to influence elections.
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, bummer, I'm not going to say anything truly controversial
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: right now. This documentary made me so mad, just big
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: mad the whole time, and just like just the face
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: I was making, the distraw face I was making talking
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: about American politics and just the upcoming election. That's how
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: I felt the whole documentary, And I'm pretty sure I
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: dissociated for part of this documentary because I was like.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: I can't listen to this, I can't deal with this.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this could have been a true crime episode just
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: as easily as a conspiracy episode.
• 6:06
  Speaker 6: It's crazy the lack of crime. It is treated as.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like someone does, we just.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: Did an oopsie's.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Someone does confess to a crime at the end, but
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: even then they do it just because well, that's easier
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: than having to comply. It's not like anyone's gonna go
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: to jail over that shit. It opens with a girl
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: named Britney Kaiser who is not being dramatic at all.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: When we see her writing Cambridge Analytica on some fucking
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: statue at Burning Man, It's like, Okay, are you trying
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: to score points here by being at Burning Man? Do
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: you think that makes you relatable Brittany? Because it sure doesn't,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: it sure sure does not.
• 6:52
  Speaker 6: That shit confused me so much. I was like, why
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: are we at burning Man right now?
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: And we never go back, We never see that red
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: wig again? Is that?
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: Why?
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Is that why your hair is red gen because you
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: watch this documentary, you're.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: A great big Britney Kaiser fan in the house.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I had to do it.
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: I had to rep brit well and then well, and
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: then I will say the next time we see her,
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: she's like on vacation in Thailand, is so like she's
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: fine and she's like my family.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's not a very likable figure, at least not
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 7:27
  Speaker 6: I was trying to like her the whole time because
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: I was like, maybe she's doing the right thing, and
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: this is trying to paint her as not doing the
• 7:34
  Speaker 6: right thing, because she's the only person who actually said
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: any thing was bad or condemned it. But then I
• 7:41
  Speaker 6: texted at him being like do we hate her or
• 7:43
  Speaker 6: do we just want to hate her?
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: And I we hate her.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I hate her. She's essentially a war criminal.
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: Just because she said it was bad doesn't make it
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: okay that she did it.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And like I get that we've all made mistakes
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: in our youth, but most of our mistakes don't involve
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: toppling foreign governments and hers did so kind of you.
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: Don't know me, you know, Yeah, I know we're going
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: to get to this in a minute, but like I
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: did appreciate them pointing out her like own personal arc
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: and her own personal story of like where she began
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: and where she ended up.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: And it's like, God's.
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: Fascinating and definitely deserves to be looked at a bit more.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: Just it brought her overall in culture.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would watch a full documentary about Britney Kaiser.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Like once I heard she was working on political campaigns
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: since she was fourteen, It's like why, like how did
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: that happen before that? Yeah? Like who recognized something in
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: you as a fourteen year old? Where they were like
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: we got to get hurt because she was like running
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Obama's Facebook page in yes eight when he ran Yes, Like,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: she's not that old now, so like how old was
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: she in eight? Can we look up her age? I
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: bet we can internet. How crazy would it.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Be what I was doing at twelve online?
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  Speaker 6: That's scary to me what she was doing at twelve
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: online because I was like hacking shit like it was
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: nothing too like for fun and I'm not smart.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: She was twenty two when she was running Obama's Facebook page,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: which that sounds about right.
• 9:30
  Speaker 6: Maybe I mean a lot of responsibility to give a
• 9:33
  Speaker 6: twenty two year old, I don't see that happening now, But.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Also in two thousands, no, I don't see it happening now.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: But in two thousand and eight, Facebook was still pretty new,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: so she would have had been a way better grasp.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Like there was this movie with Vince Vaughan and Owen
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Wilson where they played like older people going back into
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: the workforce, and there were all these scenes where they
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: were pretending like they didn't know how the Internet worked.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: It's like, motherfucker by the timeline in this movie, you
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: were in your twenties when the Internet really blew up,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: and now you're in your forties. You've had twenty fucking
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: years of experience. Don't tell me you don't know how
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: the internet works. So like now I could see someone
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: older being the person who runs a presidential Facebook page,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: But in two thousand and eight, it would have been
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: a young Yeah.
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: In two thousand and seven, I remember they just rolled
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: out in like two thousand and six that you could
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: join Facebook in high school, Like they were just rolling
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: that out and you needed like an invite.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah to join, and I did.
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: And so it's like people buying largely didn't have Facebook,
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: like My parents didn't get Facebook until I was in college.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that was five.
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: Years I'd been on the platform already, so like it's
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: you know, it made sense that like she was so
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: young and doing it, she was an intern too, right.
• 10:56
  Speaker 6: Can we talk about for one second that weird chunk
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: of time where only people who had been invited to
• 11:00
  Speaker 6: Facebook had been posting on it for years, and it
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: was like we were like criminals on there with how
• 11:06
  Speaker 6: much we were like underage partying and all that shit,
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: and then all of a sudden, our parents could be
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: on there and we were all like in trouble.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: But like not because we were adults.
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: It was like this weird backwards chunk of internet where
• 11:18
  Speaker 6: they were like, we're mad about this.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: It's like you weren't invited.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that happens, or at least that happened a lot
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: in the early days of the Internet, where people were like,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: oh Facebook, this is like my own personal thing. No
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: one's looking at this, right, and it's like everyone is
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: looking at it, especially well employers, people looking to employ
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: you all that shit.
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: Well, and now it's so interesting because it's like I
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: see a lot of like gen z folks, like not
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: really caring, Like whatever they put online, they're like, whatever,
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: this one have any consequences. Meanwhile, like millennials are so
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: fucking traumatized from.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: Like employers will see everything.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: Still remains to be true.
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: Is that some employers really fucking care, and some employers
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: really fucking don't.
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: You know, they're like, whatever you do on your own
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: time is your own thing.
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: But also like, don't make these enormous political statements and
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: don't like, you know, do crystal meth and post videos
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: on TikTok.
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, also don't do that.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, please don't do meth. David Carroll, he's another of
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: the main players in this documentary.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Found him so purely annoying.
• 12:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I didn't really have an opinion on him. I don't think.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: He's too excited about all of it. I was like,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: ew stop.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's also like someone needed to file that
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: lawsuit that he filed, Like I mean.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: I'm proud of him or whatever. He's annoying, Like, ultimately.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's probably a pain to hang out with, but yeah,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: he's definitely not like one of the villains here. And
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying you're calling him a villain obviously.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Oh he's a villain probably.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: In several other ways. He's an associate professor at Parsons
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: School of Design, and so of course, of course that's
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: who's going to be leading the campaign against data rights.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: It seems like it work. Yeah, weird choice, these guys
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: out here making genes and calling out social media networks.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: One of the things he brings up while he's addressing
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: his class is that thing where you talk about something
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: and next thing you know, you go on the gram
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: and you see an ad for that thing you were
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: just talking about, and it's like, is my phone listening
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: to me? And the explanation is always no, It's just
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: that the data that's out there about you is so
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: good at predicting your next move that it just like
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: knows what to show you.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: And I think that this is any longer true.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: That feels like a roundabout answer to me, because that
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: feels like we can circle back to okay, but is
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: my phone listening to me?
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: Is that part of that made me think that he's annoying?
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: I was like, okay, dude, because I felt like I
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: already knew all of this, and I feel like most
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: people it's common knowledge, and like his explanation of it
• 14:14
  Speaker 6: felt condescending and wrong.
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: I was like, okay, look, in his defense, this documentary
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: did come out in twenty nineteen, so it was four
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: years ago. So it's like now everyone's like, oh, it's
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: not that's what's happening, and it's like, but in twenty nineteen,
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: this was this was new information, you know, And I think, like,
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: for me, I just always look at my ads that
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: I like, I always give it a side eye because
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: it's very bad at predicting what I want. And I think,
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: I think if I can give any advice, this podcast
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: is have such disparate interests that the Internet literally cannot
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: paint a picture of who you are.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Be ungovernable to advertise to.
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, basically be ungovernable, just the things that the Internet
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: feels it needs to show me. I'm like, no, I'm
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: not interested in that.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: Go away, your adds me nothing to me.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Take your algorithm on a hike, buddy.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and see, I'm the exact opposite. Instagram knows what
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I fuck with, that's for sure. It just showed me
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: like baseball cards and shoes, and I'm like, yep, I
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: want that. You know where I got this? His t
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: shirt Instagram.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Wow, I do too.
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: Many social experiments online for it to predict what I'm doing.
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: And I also will do shit like talk about stuff
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: just to fuck with my ads because I'm like, I've
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: proved this wrong. I will just talk about shit that
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: I don't put into my phone at all, and see
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: see if I start getting ads for it and it works.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: And see I just kind of use Instagram for shopping
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: at this point.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's what they want it to be.
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: So it does keep showing me advertisements for like a
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: litter genie.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: But I'm just like, yeah, because.
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: You know, I have gads like that's of course any
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: cat owner wants a fucking litter genie. Yeah, I don't
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: want to scoop litter boxes, duh. But with what am
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: I what? With what money am I buying? This litargy
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: broke social media.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: The laziest version of it, and I think we still
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: see it all the time, is when you buy something
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: and then you start getting ads for that thing all
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: over the internet. It's like, like, what kind of research
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: are you doing to decide that this was a good
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: way to spend your money? Anyway, Let's get back to
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: David Carroll He again says that, yeah, that's your phone's
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: not listening to you. It's just like it's really good
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: at knowing what you're going to do, and it's like,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: that's kind of scarier, if I'm being honest. Yeah, I'd
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: like I'd like rather just know that my phone was
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: listening to me and your brain. So David Carroll says
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: that after the twenty sixteen election, he realized that these
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: same methods that advertisers are using to sell you shit
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: on the Internet could also probably be used for election purposes.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: And I feel like a lot of people were having
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: that discussion already by then, but David Carroll landed on
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: that after the election, and so he started looking into it.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: One of the groups that we meet is Project Alamo.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: They were a pro Trump group who spent one million
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: dollars a day on Facebook ads. Now here's a question.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: They show us a statistic at the end of this
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: documentary jumping way way ahead here that says Trump ran
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: something like five million Facebook ads and Hillary Clinton ran
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: sixty six thousand, At which point I think you have
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: to ask the question, is that really election interference or
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: is that Hillary Clinton not taking the Internet into account enough?
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Because I do think Hillary Clinton went into twenty sixteen
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: with kind of this air about her where she just
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: felt like she was kind of entitled to be president
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: next that there was no way Trump was going to
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: beat her, and why didn't she run five million Facebook ads?
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: You know, I think that it kind of reflects, like,
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: you know, that a lot of people on the left
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: and Democrats were like saying like, oh, well, it's ridiculous,
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: like Trump can't win, Like he's not gonna win, and
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: that was like us not realizing that there were you know,
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: because they do talk about like how you know, there's
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: a lot of like influenceable people online. I forget what
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: the word they used for them, but they like but
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: that like we just I don't know, there was this
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: true underestimation of how badly people could be manipulated on
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: Facebook and on social media. And I think that's like,
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: I don't think it was necessarily like an era of
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: like she deserved it, but it was an era of
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: just like, really, y'all think that this motherfucker is gonna win,
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: like he's a in a traditional election, Like had that
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: been like a two thousand and four election, like she
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: would have won, like because we wouldn't have had all
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: of this disinformation, and so I think I think that
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: her attitude going into it was fair in my opinion,
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: But because of all of the ads that the Trump
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: campaign ran in Project Alamo that like, you know, they
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: they pushed it and they realized that that was how
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: they could win, and that was a tactic that I
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: just don't think Democrats counted.
• 19:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that it's hard to even pinpoint. Like
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: I think that her, probably her whole team was out
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: of touch with what was like going on and how
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: influential the internet could become. And so I mean entitlement
• 19:39
  Speaker 6: sure on one hand, But on the other hand, they
• 19:41
  Speaker 6: just truly didn't do any of the research that Trump
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: was prepared to do, and like had a team that
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: was willing to fucking spend money. They didn't have to
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: make something happen that shouldn't have period.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it definitely to me seems like it's
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: at least a little bit of both.
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: Like yeah, no, for sure, Trump that definitely picked a
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: perfect storm so to speak of.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, like Trump definitely had people working on his behalf.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: But I just feel like Hillary Clinton could have too,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: and that.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: I mean too, like she dropped the ball.
• 20:16
  Speaker 6: Like she should have had a team that knew what
• 20:18
  Speaker 6: the fuck they were up against as far as what
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: Facebook was potentially going to give, and she just didn't.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if even a lot of
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: the stuff about well, Trump's never gonna win, like we
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: don't actually have to worry about this. I wouldn't be
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: surprised if some of that came from the Trump campaign also,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: because that was as effective as anything else in hell.
• 20:42
  Speaker 6: I mean, if you create a composition, because no one
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: was even like entertaining the idea of him, so there
• 20:47
  Speaker 6: was nothing to bat up against really to create controversy.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: So I'm sure that they did that. That would only
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: make sense.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean it worked everyone. I mean I
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: wrote an article in twenty fifteen about how Trump could
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: totally win, and boyd did people call me crazy for that? Oof?
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: I don't think I ever did. I was like, yep,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: and everything about me.
• 21:12
  Speaker 6: My dad worked for Donald Trump at one point when
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: he was running for governor of Illinois, and I don't
• 21:18
  Speaker 6: think that anyone knew about that besides my family because
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: he was like in the campaign.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: And my dad is a fucking criminal.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: That's who Trump likes. He loves a fucking criminal. So yeah,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, that didn't go the way we wanted it
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: to go. So back to Cambridge Analytica. David Carroll has
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: this notion that voter data was used by Cambridge Analytica
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: to influence the election, and he ends up hiring a
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: lawyer in Great Britain, a guy named Robbie Naick, to
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: basically sue Cambridge Analytica for that data, and that becomes
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: one of the plot points throughout this whether he's gonna
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: get that data and see what it was, and spoiler,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: he doesn't get it. Not only does he not get it,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: but at one point Cambridge Analytica is like threatened with
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: legal action. They're like, well, you'll be charged with crimes.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: And they're like, all right, charges with crimes, that's fine.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: And they get charged with crimes and they just like
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: pay a fucking fine or something and they never have
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: to give up that data, which that's kind of horrifying,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: honestly classic.
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: I feel like companies, like corporations do that every day
• 22:34
  Speaker 6: all day.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: They just are like, oh, laws, we have money to
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: deal with laws.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, they'll pay the fine, because even if the
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: fine is like two billion dollars, they're like, all right,
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: dropping the bucket, you know, class action lawsuit?
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: Who cares? Like who cares?
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: If you have family members that are horribly disfigured by
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: our product, like and their lives are irreparably changed, but like,
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: you know, the two hundred dollars will do it, right.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I did not know that Cambridge Analytica started their political
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: influencer work by working on the Ted Cruz campaign. That
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: has to be such a powerful selling point to be
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: able to walk in and be like, we got this
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: fuck face elected, all right, truly truly, and it really is.
• 23:21
  Speaker 6: That's so scary to be like, this guy sucks so
• 23:24
  Speaker 6: much and look what we did for him.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And it makes Ted Cruz make perfect sense now because
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: I like I was always like, how who fucking voted
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: for this guy? And why? And it's oh, it was
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: a psychological operation that was conducted on the people of
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: text Aha.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: Oh duh, it's.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Just that, that's all. And but that does make perfect sense.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Like that's where you start. You start with the hardest
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: possible option, like how do you get someone like Ted
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Cruz elected? Like once you do that, like Trump's gonna
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: be easy. That motherfucker had a TV show for years.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: He's got fans. Ted Cruz's dad killed JFK. That's probably
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: not true.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and he was the Zodiac Killer.
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: Too.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: What did we think of Alexander Nicks, the CEO of
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Cambridge Analytica. He looked like he should be on a
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: be Yeah. He looked like he should be on a
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: British sketch comedy show or something, as opposed to being
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: the guy actively trying to ruin the world.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Who what's the guy that he does look like?
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: That is the.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Guy with the fucking glasses in.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: The y Yes, and like not Ricky Gervais his friend.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: Oh Stephen Merchant.
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: Yes, yes, he's like a low budget Stephen Merchant.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, thank you for knowing his name. I
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: could not get it out of my.
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: Brain that that Stephen Merchant is a tall, gangly motherfucker.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: Like that man is a giant. Yeah, but yeah it
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: seems like a noodle.
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he's like six foot eight. He's genuinely enormous.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I wish everyone could have seen Jen's hand movements
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: when she said he looks like a noodle. Great for podcasts,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: inspiring stuff. So yeah, Ted Cruz is where they get
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: their start. And then they go to Trump and they're like, listen,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: if we got that motherfucker elected, we can obviously get
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: you elected. And they talk a little bit about their methods,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: and the thing is, there's science going way way back
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: on the type of people who are prone to vote
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: for someone like Trump. There's a book I talk about
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: all the time. You can still find a free copy online.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: It's the book is called The Authoritarians. But they also
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: wrote a new version of it when Trump was campaigning,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: called Authoritarian Nightmare. And it's written by this guy who
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: was a professor at a college in Canada for a
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: year and years and years. He was a psychology professor
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: and he gave incoming freshmen this survey that was meant
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: to determine how likely you are to vote for an
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: authoritarian leader. And what he found is that there is
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: just a segment of the population, what population, all of it,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: the whole fucking world that just craves a really strong
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: leader who isn't going to make them have to think like,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: just keep me safe and keep the fucking trains running,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: so to speak, and we will follow you to the
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: end of the Earth, and it seems like Cambridge Analytica
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: probably incorporated some of that into their research because if
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: you can combine that with social media and someone like Trump,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: that's easy math, Like, that's super easy. And it seems
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: like they did.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: They did DNA sciences on Facebook.
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: They just selected for certain things within people and then
• 27:09
  Speaker 6: they essentially bred the algorithm to find them for them.
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: It's pretty easy stuff if you like even know a
• 27:15
  Speaker 6: little bit about selecting for genetics, which is what the
• 27:18
  Speaker 6: Internet is even based on.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: So they really just did internet.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Kinda yeah, horrifying. So we also meet a woman named
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Carol Cadwalader. That last name threw me off. There is
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: a jarring lack of valor, but Carol seemed like a
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: good egg. She was also one of the people investigating
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Cambridge Analytica, and she got treated like a Russian asset
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: and a conspiracy theorist over it, which that sucks. But
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: also when you're defending yourself against those claims in the documentary,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: don't do it in front of a poster with a
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: bunch of fucking Russian writing. Wane.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought that.
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: I was like, like, girl, we're never gonna beat the allegations.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Of this post. Uh, yes, I know exactly what it says.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Crazy they what did we think of Christopher Wiley, the
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: guy with the pink hair?
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, kind of go ahead.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: I was gonna say.
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: I didn't think he was in this documentary enough for
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: being a whistleblower, Like he was barely in this documentary.
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: I was like, if you had such a big part
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: in this, like what, like, why didn't we hear more
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: from you?
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: He was probably too eloquent on the subject, could be yeah,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: not messy enough.
• 28:39
  Speaker 6: He's another kind of painted him to be a narc
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: and I was like, okay, chill.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Well, they let Cambridge Analytica kind of kneecap his point
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: of view in this because they're talking. I don't remember
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: which Cambridge Analytica fuck face it is, but the guy's like, yeah,
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: he's commenting on a bunch of stuff that happened when
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: he didn't work here. And also he pitched the Trump
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: campaign first, and we just won. And I mean, if
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: that's true, it's kind of like, oh, dude, I like
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: your hair, but fuck you too, Like yeah, like, don't
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: don't go pitching the Trump campaign, motherfucker.
• 29:14
  Speaker 6: Then like Is that a whistleblower? Is that a narc
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: if you're telling on yourself.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. Like, he's a whistleblower, But to
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: what end? Like, is it just because he's mad at
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: himself he didn't get Trump elected? Like, I don't know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: but I do find it interesting that he describes Cambridge
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Analytica as a full service propaganda machine, which woof brutal.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: How do you turn that off once you've turned it on?
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Because like, Cambridge Analytica was just a company that was
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: doing this, But it's not like the mechanisms for doing
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: it have gone away. That data is all still out there.
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: And now there's more companies that are doing what Cambridge
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: Analytica did and.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: You can't stop it it now.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: And I truly cannot express how angry this documentary made.
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I would go as far to say the Internet
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: as a whole at this point is a full service
• 30:13
  Speaker 6: propaganda machine and that we need to scrub the whole
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: thing and start over.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, I would be alternate, c baby, let's go, Yeah,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: burn it down, start over.
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: That's what no addictive algorithms rule one.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of points in history where we
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: should have just stopped and with the Internet, it's.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Like Yahoo there, We're pasted there.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: No, like Yahoo groups is where we should have stopped,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: like like no social media, none of that shit, Like
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: we like the Internet should have just united us in
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: that we all now could go find our people and
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: fucking hang with them. And that's how it was for
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: a long time, and then it turned into, oh no,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: why don't we all fucking hang out together? And that's
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: when shit went downhill, Like I didn't ever need to
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: interact with my old high school friends ever again. As
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: it turns out, like my life would have been just
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: as rich if I did not know that my best
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: friend Larry is an avid Trump supporter now, like I
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: would love not knowing that.
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: But hey, yeah, well I would say the Internet has
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: even gone one step further. Instead of like what if
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: we all hung out together? Now it's just like what
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: if I only showed you takes and opinions that you
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: vehemently disagree with? And it's like, no, I did, That's
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: actually the opposite of what I want. I just want
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: to hang out with the people that I like that
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: I agree with, because we enjoy things that if we
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: have a disagreement, we can talk about it like humans
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: and not like be brigaded by people who have, you know,
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: stronger opinions and want to throw words around and y'all,
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: I really, I'm like, I'm so blind to this conversation
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: just with how angry I am. I'm saying this all
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: well is smiling, because if I don't, I'm gonna scream.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:07
  Speaker 6: I just feel like the Internet stopped being we're all
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: here together and started being we're all here together.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: So that's fight.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, kind of yeah, I forgot. They mentioned in
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: this a detail I had forgotten, which is that Cambridge
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Analytico was in part founded by Steve Bannon, which that's cool.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Someone there's a quote where someone says this is the
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: weapon Steve Bannon wanted to build to fight his culture war,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: and great, I'm sure he's given up on that since then.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I'm sure we have nothing to worry about there. So
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: David Carroll he files his lawsuit again. That doesn't fucking
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: go anywhere. This becomes enough of the story that there's
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: a hearing about it, and at one point Christopher Wiley
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: is like, well, the person you should be talking to
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: is Britney Kaiser, and they're like, who the fuck is
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Britney Kaiser. It's like, how it seems like she was
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: just there the whole time, Like, how did you Well,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I guess he came forward.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: He hats dude, she got the funky hat. Nobody sees her.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess he came forward as a whistleblower. So
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: they probably wouldn't have.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: Been here care she had a funky hat.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: They don't see that exactly.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: The first time they interview her, she's somewhere in Thailand
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: and she's.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Like, all the thing is, maybe she ran the fuck away.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it seems like she has reason to
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: take up residents in a foreign country as opposed to
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: the United States.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Like you would say.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: So I did get that vibe kind of that because
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Britney Kaiser, she played a huge role in all of this,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: and she does come forward as sort of a whistleblower,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: but she's a whistle blower in the same way the
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: first people to make it out of Jonestown were whistleblowers,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: because if you look into that, like Deborah Layton was
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: one of the first people to come out of Jonestown
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: and be like, whoa, what the fuck? You're not gonna
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: believe what's happening there? Deborah Layton was like in charge
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: at Jonestown. She was like the number two. And then
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: she comes out and gets to like build the narrative
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: of what was happening in there and be like, oh,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: I was a victim too this fucking cult leader. Am
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I right? And it's like, nah, you built that with him,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: like you were doing it. You weren't one of the
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: people being held as a slave at Jonestown, you were
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: the slave master. And then you come out like, oh
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: my god, can you believe it? Britney Kaiser, I kind
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: of get that sense too, where she's like, oh, fuck,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: can you believe what these people were doing? And some
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: of it I think it's just to protect her, and.
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: I think her freedom well, I think some of that
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: is also her trying to like mentally and emotionally protect herself,
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: and like I'd be interested to know more of like
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: what the conversations with her family was. Like, I mean,
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: we get a phone we overhear a phone convers between
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: her and her mom, and her mom's saying like, oh,
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: you know, talking about like having to pay the bills
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: or something, and she's like, I don't have a thousand
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: dollars to pay all of the bills, and I'm like,
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: I'm fascinated to find out like what this conversation is
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: because like, to me, that so clearly sounds like she
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: was working on all of these like campaigns that have
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: put her mother on her, you know, on her heels,
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: and like trying to figure this out. And she's like,
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: you know, I can, I can help you out, and
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: it's just like it's like, girl, you you're part of
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: the problem, Like you did this to your mom, Like
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: this is this is what happened, and you were part
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: of this and you directly influenced this in hurting your
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: own fucking family and yourself. And I think that part
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: of it is like she's just trying to mentally protect herself,
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: and I think that's you know what.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: You know, deb Layton did.
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: Too, you know, leaving these cults, and it's like, no,
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: you you were in charge. Like you need to like
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: you need to go to therapy and talk that out
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: with somebody and like come to terms with what you
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: did and accept that that's what you did. I think
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: about the oh my god, I'm not going to remember
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: his name, but the there's a guy that left the
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: Moonies that was actually like really influential in the Moonies too,
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: and he brought in a lot of people from the
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: Moonies or to the Moonies. And he's like now out
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: and speaking on like or really like Mike Grinder, you know,
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: for scientology, like coming out and like he's like, I
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: did all this bad stuff and I am now paying
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: the price for it. I am also having to sit
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: in front of people who are telling me this was
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: your fault. You did this to me specifically, Like you
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: specifically did this to me specifically, And he's having to
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: live with that, and he even like cries and interviews
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: sometimes because he is just so distraught of like how
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: he hurts so many people, and he's obviously in therapy
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: or like he's not in therapy about it because they're
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: all still weird about therapy, but like he's working through it,
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: you know. And it's like but it's like for he
• 37:00
  Speaker 5: still needs to work through these things. I'm just like
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: you did this, Tea.
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: I didn't see real regret from her. I didn't see
• 37:06
  Speaker 6: any accountability from her. She's just like she'll be like
• 37:10
  Speaker 6: sitting watching Zuckerberg and be like Okay, yah, zuck or
• 37:13
  Speaker 6: whatever the fuck, and it's like you don't get to
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: be like that, we get to be like that. You
• 37:16
  Speaker 6: don't get to fucking be like that. And also like
• 37:20
  Speaker 6: no tears, really just like fucking just I think that
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: she really did all of this so that she could
• 37:28
  Speaker 6: see herself as a as a human again and like
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: to protect like you're saying, her emotional well being instead
• 37:35
  Speaker 6: of just actually emotionally taking responsibility for the fact that
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: you just fucking decided this would be a fun fucking
• 37:42
  Speaker 6: thing for you to do, little miss campaign.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Well, not just that, but there's a thing she mentions
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: in this where she points out that her family lost
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of money during the two thousand and eight
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: two thousand and nine financial collapse, And I can't help
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: but wonder if that was maybe the trigger that made
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: her go from Democrat who runs Obama's Facebook page to
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: human rights campaigner to Okay, well, now I'm going to
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: fucking help Trump and the worst version of Republicans take
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: over the world. Like I wonder if she blamed her
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: family's financial demise on Obama and the Democrats a little
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: bit and was.
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: Like, there's that whole bootstraps mentality that is like, well,
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: if your family's suffering. You should just take any job
• 38:35
  Speaker 6: that's given to you.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I wonder if it was that or was
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: it like a revenge thing where she was like, oh
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I saw.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: Or think she's like, they did this to my family.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: Kind of like that's nuts.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Because she does make a hard fucking pivot from human
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: rights to all right, well now I'm going to join
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: the NRA and find out how this side of the
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: world does things like that.
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: I thought that was such an interesting part when she
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: was talking about that.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: But she was like, I don't like guns, and.
• 39:08
  Speaker 6: She's like I thought, I like, was interested in the
• 39:10
  Speaker 6: human design of people who like guns.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, that's fucking creepier, bitch.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a little weirder.
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I just I Yeah, I'm wondering. I'm with you, Adam.
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: I'm wondering if this is like misplaced blame, like you know,
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: because I know a lot of people blamed Obama for
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: the financial collapse and was like, no, no, no, no, he
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: just took office.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: Guess who set all that up?
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: Like you know, it's like we're kind of going through
• 39:37
  Speaker 5: a similar thing with like, you know, it's like Bob
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: Iger had made like a bunch of not great choices
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: in his first.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: Time as CEO of Disney, and then Chapebak was also
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: not very good.
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: But he then had to deal with what Iiger had
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: like set up for him and go through all of that.
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: And then now that Eiger's back, some of his own
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: chickens have come home to roost that he set up
• 40:01
  Speaker 5: that we're gonna be somebody else's problem, So like it's
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: you know, put it's you know, kicking you know, kicking
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: the ball down the field for somebody else to deal with,
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: and it's exhausting, But yeah, I can see I could
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: see her, especially being like, you know, I remember when
• 40:19
  Speaker 5: I was like, you know, twenty three, twenty four, and
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: like the things that I thought then are a lot
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: of them are not what I think now, And a
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: lot of it is just like, oh no, you actually
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: are required to hold a lot of nuance in your
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: head and like find comfort in the gray area, whereas
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: like it's easier to blame somebody and be like they're
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: the reason for all my problems to be like they're not.
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: There's actually a lot of reasons. But you know, for
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: a twenty two year old who just came off of
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: a campaign and then being like, oh, well, this president
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: personally harmed me by you know, ruining my family's financial situation.
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: Like I could see, I could see the like, well,
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: I'm going to go work for this data company and
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: then like slowly trickle into right wing nonsense.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She talks about how they did it, and it's
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: so simple, like they just targeted the people they wanted
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: to target and just flooded those people's pages and news
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: feeds with anti Hillary Clinton content, and they did it
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: in a way that made it seem like it was
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: just organic and coming from like grassroots political groups and shit,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: because you could just make up a news outlet and
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: like post content to Facebook from that news outlet when
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: you're really like that happened during the twenty sixteen election.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: There were all these like what seemed like quaint little
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: local news outlets that were just propaganda and they were
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: set up solely to disseminate that propaganda.
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: And the difficult thing is is that like Americans are
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: not educated well enough on disseminating propaganda and media literacy,
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: and so like we're you know, it's like people that
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: are are like, no, these are fake fucking websites like
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: these are fake news sources, and but people don't want
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: to investigate it any further. They just see a thing,
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: it confirms their bias. They don't go any further into it.
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: And it's like, okay, but what is that? What is
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: that source right now? Like what do you like? Who's
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: actually behind that source? And it's like if you don't
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: dig deep enough into it then and they're they're just
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: getting more sophisticated and hiding what a source is and
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: who's behind it.
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: And it's I literally.
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: Did it myself, like recently, like for myself, I was
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: trying to uh get verification. I don't even remember on
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: which outlet, but I had heard that if you have
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: publications written about you that you could get verified that way.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: So I made an AI writer. I had AI write
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: the article about me.
• 42:58
  Speaker 6: I posted it to medium as that face AI writer
• 43:01
  Speaker 6: and then posted it and people were like, wow.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: That's so cool all day. It took me twenty minutes. Yeah,
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: this is not hard stuff.
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: And also that's me think about what people are doing
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: to you all the time.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: That's me being silly.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: That was a goof Yeah, this is a company that
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: was spending a million dollars a day, So.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: Like, imagine the way they can target it. How easy
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: it was. It's fucked up.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Cambridge Analytica eventually, as this stuff starts
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: coming out, goes on this media campaign trying to make
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: themselves seem like less of a villain than they are.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: This is the point where they kind of paint Chris
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Wiley as like a jealous ex employee, and it's like, okay, sure,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: but is what he's saying true? Because if so, I
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: don't care if he's a jealous ex employee. Sometimes jealous
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: ex employees say shit like this, and why.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: Are we caring about what's who's jealous here?
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Like, is what he's saying true? That's the fucking question.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: When they bring up Britney Kaiser, though, that same guy
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: is a little less adamant about things. He's like, well
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I thought she was a friend, So I'm like, okay,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Well everything Britney Kaiser saying is true obviously, Like if
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: that's his reaction, I do like the part where she
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: finds all this like old like her old calendar and
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: all these emails. Because Cambridge Analytica they were trying to
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: deny that they used this Facebook data after a certain point.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: And that's one of the myths about the Internet is
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: people are like, oh, once it's on the Internet, it's
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: there forever. It's like motherfucker. Not if someone stops paying
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: their hosting bill, like shits yeah, shit disappears from the
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Internet all the time. And Cambridge Analytica had successfully eliminated
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: any proof that they were using this Facebook data from
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: the Internet. But then Britney Kaiser finds this email on
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: her old work computer that clearly says, well, we're using
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: these this Facebook data for thirty million people, and it's
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: like got a date on it that is clearly well
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: after when they said they had deleted all this stuff,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: so they couldn't really refute what she was saying, like
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: she had a laptop full of information. But still not shocking.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: She's alive actually.
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: Kind of yeah, yeah, I mean that's probably why she
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: lives in Thailand. Now, I mean I'm assuming she lives
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: in Thailand.
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, seems like I don't know, she's assuming that, And
• 45:42
  Speaker 6: so where she was like, I guess, no, going outside
• 45:44
  Speaker 6: right now?
• 45:45
  Speaker 5: I wonder girl, I guess, Yeah, what were you wondering,
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: I said, I was going to say, I was wondering
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: if like they have like extraditions. Is that the word?
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but she's not.
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but I don't think she's a criminal to the US.
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: She's just somebody that would probably have a hit taken
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: out on them.
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well by somebody else.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: There is that thing that comes up later about her
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: meeting with Julian Assange about the twenty sixteen election or
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: was it It might have been the twenty twenty election.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: I don't remember, but she was like, oh, we didn't
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: talk about the election. It's like, okay, your girl, sure
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: you didn't like in that case, I could see the
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: US being like, yeah, we'd like to have a word.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: But who knows the point where I really started to
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: kind of turn on Britney Kaiser And I don't know
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: if she was there for this part of what Cambridge
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Analytica did. But they didn't really start with Ted Kruz,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: like Ted Cruz was their selling point. But where they
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: started was third world countries in like Eastern European countries
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: like Lithuania, Romania, Kenya, Ghana, Malaysia. They interfered in all
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: of those elections way before they decided to upgrade and
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: start fucking with the US and the UK. Also, we
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: haven't mentioned, but Cambridge Analytica did the same thing with
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Brexit and they were instrumental in making Brexit happen. But
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: before that, they were in all of these tiny countries
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: just helping probably authoritarian regimes take over. That's one of
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: the things that struck me. There's a Ted talk at
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: the end of this where Carol the journalist is talking
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: to Silicon Valley and she's like, is this really what
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: you want? Do you want history to remember you as
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: the handmaidens of authoritarianism? And it's like, I think the
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: scary answer is yes, Like don't. I don't think these
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: companies are opposed to authoritarianism, especially when you consider that
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: if they are the ones who make it happen, and
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: then they're probably going to be set up pretty well
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: in terms of life under that authoritarian regime. Like Google
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: has had no problems cow towing to China when they
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: need to. I don't think any of these companies would
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: have a single fucking problem with being remembered as the
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: ones who ushered in these authoritarian regimes. They're like, yeah, baby,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: that's what we do.
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: As long as they get paid. They don't care.
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like yea, you know, as long as we live
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: under a capitalistic society and money is king, they don't care.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of what the government cares about too,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: like the American government.
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: This is what I mean this, I'm so.
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: Angry, Like I just I know we're heading toward it,
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: so I'm just gonna go to it. They talk about
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: working on this campaign in Trinidad and Tobago of this
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: do the do So campaign do so campaign, which is
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: can they wanted to put in So there's apparently like
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: a you know, a big a Latino community and then
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: like a very large Indian community which I didn't know
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: about trenda on Tobago.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: So yeah, funny didn't either.
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: Fun fact to learn, but that they wanted to put
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: in an Indian leader and they were working for the
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: Indian community there, and so they made this whole campaign
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: called do So by like you know, I forget what
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: the reason like what they do.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Well, they were What they basically did was they encouraged
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: the DUSO campaign encouraged young people to not vote because
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: like on the grounds that they're not getting the choices
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: they want, the governments not working for you whatever. But
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: the whole point was to get people to rally around
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: the DOS campaign, knowing that the people on the Black
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: side would just not vote and the people on the
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Indian side, they might get on social media and be like, yeah,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not voting, but they knew once their parents were like, no,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: you're voting, Like you're coming with me and you're voting.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: That side was still going to vote, and like they
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: knew all of that ahead of time, and it fucking worked.
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: It's bad times.
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's bad times, man. Well, especially with the Dusau
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: campaign because they even talk about how because there's like
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: recording of them in this meeting like talking about how
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: like you know, they realize like, oh, well, you know
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: this group of people, like what's the easiest thing is
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: to not vote? And so it's actually easier to convince
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: them to not do anything than to do anything.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: So what if we just convinced them to not vote?
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: And so we did that and we started this whole campaign.
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: And I mean the thing is is that like we
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: we've seen that work here, Like that has absolutely worked,
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: you know, and it's worked over many years of people
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: being convinced that they're like, oh well if I don't vote,
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: like it's whatever, my vote doesn't matter anyway, and having
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: to do real campaigns to be like your votes matter,
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: especially in local elections. Like they're trying to dissuade younger
• 51:02
  Speaker 5: voters who tend to vote Democrat and vote liberally to
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: not vote because it it locks in authoritarian and oppressive
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: and regressive regimes, and like, if you tell them to
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: not vote, they're not going to go vote, so you
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: have to so making it so. It's like the fact
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: that like these these regimes are also so anti like
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: making voting easier, and that they hated.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: Voting from home, they hated vote by mail.
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: They still hate it because they're like, well, we don't
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: want to make this easier for people, because the whole
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: point is to make it hard for people so that
• 51:40
  Speaker 5: they give up because they think that it's too much
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: and their vote doesn't matter, and we can't have them
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: know that it actually does matter and that it actually
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: is pretty easy to vote.
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: And we could make literally.
• 51:52
  Speaker 6: Every government program makes it as hard as possible to
• 51:55
  Speaker 6: do it so that you won't and you won't reap
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: the benefits of the government that are built in for you.
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: It's the same with like unemployment, it's the same with
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: like going to the DMV. It all encourages you having
• 52:05
  Speaker 6: then a criminal behavior or like other behavior essentially that
• 52:10
  Speaker 6: then they can hold against you and then charge you
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: for because it's all just beating the capitalism.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: You suck energy.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at least we make it super easy to vote
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: here in the United States. Has That was one of
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: the things I hated about the end of this documentary.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: I hated when Carol the journalist started going into all
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: this stuff about how listen, this is what Russia does.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: This is Russia fucking being Russia and just meddling in
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: our affairs. And it's like if you think the CIA
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: didn't see this and go, oh shit, I know what
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: we're working on now, like you're out of your fucking mind,
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Like we do this. Like for all the talk of
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: oh well Russia bought all these Facebook pages, it's like, motherfucker,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: the UK did this, Like our ally is the like
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: it was a company in the UK who did this,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: and we're like Russia. It's like, no, we do that
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: shit too.
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: Anybody who can do this will do this. Yeah, it's
• 53:15
  Speaker 6: ultimate control over millions of people. Anyone who can do
• 53:19
  Speaker 6: this will do this.
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah. The call is coming from inside the house.
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: We need to start over the Internet bad.
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's I mean, it's like it's like this started
• 53:32
  Speaker 5: in the UK. It started like you know, it's like
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: they were using it here and it's like and Russia
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: just jumped on the bandwagon. Like it's you can't say
• 53:41
  Speaker 5: that they're the drivers of this. It's really easy to
• 53:44
  Speaker 5: paint Russia as like the big bad and that they're
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: the reason, and that they're the only bad actor in
• 53:51
  Speaker 5: this being Like hmm, I'm pretty sure Britney Kaiser's an American.
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure that Christopher Wiley's an American. I'm pretty
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: sure that there were a lot of Americans that worked
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: on this. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of Americans
• 54:02
  Speaker 5: that hired Cambridge Analytica. Like it's not it's like, that's
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: it's not all Russia, my friend. It's like anybody who
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: wants to take control knows who to contact, who's going
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: to put them in that place.
• 54:13
  Speaker 6: You're telling me the people that did colonizing colonize the Internet?
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: What that seems so weird.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Of them, so out of character, so out of character
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: of the UK. So I think that's I think that's
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: our episode, right, People should watch this. I think it's
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: a very interesting documentary. Form your own opinions about Britney Kaiser.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not crazy about her. I don't trust her.
• 54:40
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I mean I never trust I never trust
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: somebody that accessorizes that poorly.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Or who works for the government.
• 54:50
  Speaker 6: No, it's allowed, it's the accessories.
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's just like one of these documentaries that
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: like I've really like stepped away from being because I
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: used to be really politically active when I was younger,
• 55:07
  Speaker 5: and as the lines got further and further divided, and
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: I felt like I was seeing more propaganda on my
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: timeline and from my friends, and that's still kind of
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: happening now with certain things, and I am just getting
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: increasingly worried about like where even my friends are getting
• 55:29
  Speaker 5: their news sources. I'm like, you guys are better than this,
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: like what is happening. And so it's like I've just
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: had to step away from a lot of it because
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: it's like, you know, people the sources that they're trusting
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: are also being infiltrated, and so it's like because they
• 55:43
  Speaker 5: know that they know that people trust them, and so
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: it's like you have to still continue to be vigilant,
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: and so it's like and I'm just seeing the divides happening,
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: and it's just and it is just so it is
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: so scary and especially like right now in this moment
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: as a Jewish trans person, it is very difficult to
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: exist in this world. And so it is just seeing
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: a lot of stuff happening and I'm just like this,
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: like some of these opinions did not exist even even
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: five years ago, Like when I started coming out as
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: trans in twenty fifteen, a lot of these opinions did
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: not exist. And to me, it's like people really didn't
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: give a shit about trans people, like they cared, but
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: like not to this level. And so like to me,
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: it's just like, well, yeah, it's it's propaganda. It's propaganda
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: that's that's helping push this along. And so it's like
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: it's just it's just getting increasingly scary and like and
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: and shit like Cambridge Analytica driving this and now there's
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: other actors in there driving this is just I mean,
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: it is it is just it's just made being online
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: and being a caring and empathetic person really difficult because
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: you want to care about stuff, but you don't want
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: to fall victim to propaganda and you don't want to,
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: I don't know, have this consume your entire brain because
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: the algorithm is feeding it and making you upset and anxious,
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: and it's it's hard because it's the main reason I
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: want to like step away from social media and I
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: just want to like delete all my accounts, but I
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: also will miss like having jokes with friends and like,
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: you know, seeing what my friends are up to and
• 57:34
  Speaker 5: their day to day stuff, and it's it's I think
• 57:38
  Speaker 5: that that's part of the problem is that people don't
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: want to give that up, and so they're stuck being
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: fed propaganda in between, you know, their friends vacation posts
• 57:46
  Speaker 5: and posts of their kids and families and pets.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: And you got to get on. You got to get
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: on blue sky. There's nothing I am on.
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: I am on blue sky.
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: There is nothing out of my blue sky because I
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: don't understand how it works.
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: So if you could show me.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: It's like Twitter, but with fewer Nazis.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: I would say, I have to be online.
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: It is my job to be online, and it sucks
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: all day every day. But I think that everyone could
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: benefit from my rule of if you see something that
• 58:19
  Speaker 6: is trying to get you to take a side that
• 58:21
  Speaker 6: is not the side of human rights.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: Maybe look at what you're reading again.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a solid rule.
• 58:28
  Speaker 6: And I don't know, it just seems to the more
• 58:32
  Speaker 6: we create discourse that is against each other, the farther
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: we are away from taking down the powers that control us.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the blue versus Red thing was such a brilliant
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: move on this government's part. Like, we are forever doomed
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: to this existence where no matter what the government suggests,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: half the country is going to be for it, in
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: the other half is going to be against it, even
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: if it's a thing that hurts us all, even if
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: it's a thing that hurts people, you know, even if
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: it's a thing that fucking would help us all, it's
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: always going to be that thing where well, that's that
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: side's idea, so it's bad. The thing I always reference
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: is national Internet. Like every administration since like Bush has
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: been pushing the idea that hey, we should have like
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: just free internet for everybody, Like everyone should have the
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: same access to this technology, because there are still a
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: shockingly high number of people in this country who just
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: have no access to the Internet. But every time it
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: gets proposed, the other side is like, I don't want
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: this authoritarian fuck to be the one who does it.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: And like it happened with Obama, he was like, hey,
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: free internet, what do you think And Republicans were like,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: fuck you, you socialist scum. And then Trump pushed the
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: same idea and people on the left were like, oh no,
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not letting you nazi fucks spy on me like that.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: And it's like, god damn it, we need national internet.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: Stop it.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it needs to be a utility, like you know,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: like anything else, because of just how connected our world
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: is now and how desperately you need the Internet for everything.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: But it's yeah, it's and then, but that also goes
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 5: into lobbyists, and that goes into you know, once again
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 5: these companies and capitalism feeding our representatives too, and also
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: starting their own like propaganda campaigns of like oh no,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 5: you don't want nationalized Internet because we spectrum our piece
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 5: of shit connection. We want you to keep paying eighty
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: dollars a month for our terrible internet because we need you,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: and we need you to make us exist and make
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: us rich, even though we're not going to make your
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 5: service any better. Yeah, Like, I I don't think there
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 5: is a government version of the Internet that would be.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: Worse than the spectrum Internet I have now.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: It's so bad.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: It's the only available thing in my.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 5: Neighborhood same and that's the thing. And that's monopolization. That's like,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: you know, it's like there's so much connected to all
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 5: of these policy decisions and instead of like really peeling
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 5: back the curtain and being like, no, it's companies that
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 5: are invested in you and invested in your money and
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: what they want from you, and they're helping this. And
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: then you have people coming in of like, well, I
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: agree with that, and they're going to make me rich.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: So I'm going to make these propaganda campaigns to make
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: sure that that stays in power, and so we're also
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: going to help these people be elected that will also
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: put that in power. And it's just it is just
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: so I have said for literally years now, I've been
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: saying it since I was in high school that I
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: hate this country for the fact that it just refuses
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: to protected citizens from forces like this and that like
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: oh yeah, they're just there. Just doesn't seem to be
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: a path that it ever will and it and it
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: is and it is so disheartening and it is so
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 5: difficult to grapple with that, and like but also like
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 5: I can't really go anywhere else, and so it's like we.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: Can't afford to leave. We're trapped here. Baby.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: Also, we should.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: Eat them, we should eat them all.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: Yes, let's eat them.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Let's all right. I think that's our episode. Thank you both.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: I think this episode is sad enough.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: We did it.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: We made this document government officials.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: We made this documentary even sadder than it is. Jack, Jen,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: thank you both for doing the pod. This feels like
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: inappropriate time for plugs. I got a show November tenth
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: that The Sardine and Sam Pedro you can come out
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: and sy tell jokes. And I'm also doing Samantha James
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: show comedy Go go at the l SID November seventeenth,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: The l SID Nope, I fucked that up last week too.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Not that is yeah, that l already means the it's
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: not the the yeuh and my my substack Adam Toddbrown
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: dot substack dot com. I uh just put a new
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: video up where I'm opening shit, opened a sealed copy
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: of Fleetwood Mac's nineteen seventy nine album Tossing Unboxing, and
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: I ate a bowl of Carmela Creeper Cereal spoiler. It
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: fucking sucks. It is a It is a blight on
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: the Monster Cereal franchise. Embarrassing, right, yikes? Uh, what else
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: do we got to plug? Jack? What do you got?
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: I don't have anything, but you can follow me on
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 5: social media the hellscape that we just talked about. I
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: mostly postcat photos and I just recently posted a video
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: of me going rock climbing, you know, to lighten the mood.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 5: I guess you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: at Jack Gloves TV.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: Jane, what do you got?
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: Who me?
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: I got a show.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 6: I'm gonna be on a live stream show on Twitch
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 6: on November ninth, and I will post more about it
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 6: because I don't remember the name of it. I am
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 6: on Daddy's Favorite at the Goldfish in La Thursday, the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 6: sixteenth of November, and please subscribe to all my stuff,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 6: follow me at meet Jen everywhere. I said I was
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 6: quitting OnlyFans, but I fucking lied. So if you want
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 6: to see me naked, fucking do that.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: She lied. All right, Let's get the fuck out of here. Jack,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Say goodbye bye, Jen, Say goodbye, oyebye, goodbye. Everybody. We
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: love you, people of Earth. You're planning to.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: Still stretch, still stretch.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: The encamp