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When Life's Non-Negotiables Demand Courage · Is Your Way In Your Way?

0:25
Cassandra: Good day out there to all of my listeners and I'd like to welcome you to Is your Way In your Way podcast and I'm your host, cassandra Crawley-Mayo, and for those new listeners out there, that's actually the name of my book.
0:40
Cassandra: My podcast is Is your Way In your Way and my number one bestselling book is titled Is your Way In your Way.
0:48
Cassandra: It's a self-discovery guide for women on how to restore yourself, learn from your experiences and be your true self again.
0:56
Cassandra: And this podcast is for women who are stuck, and I mean really stuck.
1:03
Cassandra: For example, you know how, in your soul, it's like something is calling you to do something, if it's to write a book, get a promotion, get out of a toxic relationship, perhaps, or forgive somebody, or you always wanted a family and you're not even able to for some reason, but yet maybe adoption's been calling you, maybe you should adopt, but yet you're reluctant about that.
1:31
Cassandra: In other words, it's just something that you have not yet made that step or executed.
1:38
Cassandra: So we talk about topics related to personal improvement, maybe business improvement, personal growth and I also say that I'm always prayerful that one of these podcasts will touch you and all of a sudden, you will say you know what?
1:55
Cassandra: There it is.
1:56
Cassandra: I'm going to pivot and I'm going to make that move and I'm going to start living my best life on my terms.
2:04
Cassandra: And today we're going to talk about topics.
2:07
Cassandra: Well, there is a topic we're going to talk about that's called breaking barriers.
2:12
Cassandra: It's from real estate to open adoption coaching.
2:18
Cassandra: That's going to be the name of this podcast and I like the welcome to two.
2:23
Cassandra: I'm telling her she's in the orange room and I'm going to take her out and have her come into the another orange room.
2:31
Cassandra: And I'd like to welcome Ayo Haynes to the podcast and, ayo, what a pleasure it is to have you and I am just so like I shared with you before.
2:41
Cassandra: I'm just I'm just out of this world about this topic because I've never even thought about there could be individuals that want children and not maybe even considered adoption.
2:52
Cassandra: So welcome to Is your Way In your Way podcast.
2:56
Ayo: Thank you so much.
2:57
Ayo: I loved your opening because it resonates with me so very much and I was stuck, in fact, in my life and we can explore how that came to me being a coach but absolutely can testify to say yes to what you have talked about with your listeners.
3:22
Cassandra: Awesome, Awesome.
3:24
Cassandra: Before I get started, I just want to read a little bit of your bio so that my listeners will understand what qualifies you to do what you're currently doing, and also about other things you've done throughout your life as well, which I'm going to call your journey.
3:39
Cassandra: Ayo Haynes is a dynamic speaker and an advocate who proves that when you courageously pursue your passion, you don't just change your own life, you ignite possibilities in others.
3:53
Cassandra: After leaving a high-profile TV career and real estate and embracing single motherhood through open adoption, she has discovered that the redefining societal expectations can create a ripple effect of empowerment and growth, From challenging traditional views on motherhood to guiding women toward financial independence and personal freedom.
4:18
Cassandra: Her story shows that by living authentically and I say authentically, and you know, guys, that's what I wholeheartedly believe in and champion your dreams, you inspire others to do the same.
4:32
Cassandra: Her insight on open adoption, debunking myths about single parenting and designing a life on your own terms will resonate with anyone that's eager to turn self-doubt into self-determination.
4:47
Cassandra: One other thing she also co-authored a best-selling book through Amazon called Ready Set, Live Empowered Strategies for an Enlightened Life.
5:00
Cassandra: That sounds like a great book, guys.
5:02
Cassandra: Right, You're ready, get set, it's time to live, Wow.
5:06
Cassandra: So Ayo, tell us about yourself before you embarked on your mission.
5:13
Cassandra: Now listen, this is her mission.
5:15
Cassandra: Her mission is to empower single women to pursue their dreams of motherhood through adoption.
5:24
Cassandra: And even though perhaps you may not be single, you know you have friends that are single, so just know, and perhaps you're the one that may want to think about this as we move forward and go through this interview.
5:38
Cassandra: So, yes, please tell, tell your backstory.
5:42
Cassandra: Well, first of all, before your mission, tell us a little bit about yourself before this mission came about.
5:55
Ayo: Yes, before this mission came about, I was an actress, I was also a realtor.
5:56
Ayo: I was doing both of them at the same time.
5:58
Ayo: When one was down, the other one was up, and so it was a really nice flow of income.
6:02
Ayo: And, just you know, being able to travel.
6:04
Ayo: I was still in my 30s, 20s, 30s, 40s, still in my 30s, 20s, 30s, 40s doing that before I became an open adoption success coach.
6:12
Ayo: And I have traveled all over the world.
6:21
Ayo: I've been to all 50 states.
6:22
Ayo: I am someone who sees something that interests them and I go do it.
6:25
Ayo: And that was my life, you know, before deciding to become a mother Although being a mother was always in the back of my mind as a child even I as a child I envisioned my life with being married, with four kids, a dog, cat, car, picket, fence, all of that.
6:43
Ayo: And I had, at different times, relationships that seemed like they would go to marriage.
6:49
Ayo: At different times, relationships that seem like they would go to marriage.
6:52
Ayo: But by the time a crucial time in my fertility window I wasn't in a relationship.
6:55
Ayo: I had built the career Great, and I had been nationally recognized by real estate boards and been on HGTV selling New York.
7:03
Ayo: I'd been all done, all these incredible things, but I didn't have the husband and I didn't have the baby.
7:11
Ayo: And part of the backstory is is I'm a PK, I'm a preacher's kid.
7:16
Ayo: My mother was the first African-American woman ordained in New York city for the Presbyterian church, so you know I'm someone who goes to church.
7:25
Ayo: There's an expectation of how your life should be and I had to have a really hard conversation with her.
7:32
Ayo: What I thought was going to be hard.
7:34
Ayo: It was actually easier than I imagined and I I I'm not in a place where I'm finding a husband so that I can have a family as it's supposed to happen, supposed to in quotes and I said I think I'm going to do this on my own and she was supportive and so on my own meant that I started with fertility treatments going to get IUI treatments, ivf treatments.
8:01
Ayo: None of them worked.
8:02
Ayo: They depleted my bank account.
8:05
Ayo: Thankfully, in real estate I had built up enough money to be able to do this.
8:09
Ayo: But if you look at the long-term effect, you're like, okay, this is not sustainable.
8:14
Ayo: I can't be doing IVF treatments for 15 K a pop and.
8:19
Ayo: Iui treatments for 2,500 to 5,000 a pop right.
8:23
Ayo: It's not sustainable and it's really hard on your body physically.
8:27
Ayo: With the hormones there's the up and down of whether you're pregnant or not taking a pregnancy test and seeing the negative.
8:36
Ayo: And eventually, I just said, okay, I have to go a different route, and adoption was not necessarily something I considered.
8:45
Ayo: I had seen it modeled in my family with different family members.
8:50
Ayo: And then, with a particular cousin, I had a chance to hold a little baby who changed my life in that moment.
8:57
Ayo: And I said if she can do it, I can do it and that's what I'm doing.
9:03
Ayo: If I can do it, you can do it.
9:07
Cassandra: Oh, what a great story.
9:08
Cassandra: I love that story, you know, because I know I have a lot of listeners that want to be married.
9:14
Cassandra: I'm not sure why I mean and I say that I'm not saying it's a bad thing, a good thing but I'm just saying why do you want to get married, you know, is it to have a family or just to have companionship?
9:27
Cassandra: Or is it because that's what we were told?
9:30
Cassandra: We were told when we finished high school and had the opportunity to go to college?
9:35
Cassandra: We get a job, we get a husband, we get the house with the white picket fence, we have the children and all of that.
9:43
Cassandra: And when those expectations which are their expectation, some of my listeners' expectations, when that doesn't happen, they don't feel good.
9:55
Cassandra: I mean, emotionally, they are not in a good place.
9:58
Cassandra: And I can say that for myself because I was one that wanted the family and the kids and the marriage and the picket fence.
10:05
Cassandra: And what happened with me is I was a career girl, I worked in corporate, as many of my listeners are aware, and I was a bit bothered that, wow, I can't, I'm not having any.
10:21
Cassandra: I don't want to say luck, but there was no one out there that I felt that be comfortable in marrying and I wanted to reiterate my story with your story because you still had a passion and, for those that are listening, still have a passion.
10:41
Cassandra: If you've not married yet, there's still some things that you have a heart's desire to do.
10:46
Cassandra: And just listen to Ayo that was her heart's desire is to have that husband have that fence.
10:53
Cassandra: She doesn't have that, but life goes on.
10:57
Cassandra: She sounds like that.
10:59
Cassandra: She had some limiting beliefs that she has overcome and also so now I would say she is a trailblazer in open adoption.
11:11
Cassandra: And what could you explain?
11:14
Cassandra: I know what a trailblazer is, but a trailblazer in open adoption.
11:20
Cassandra: What is open adoption?
11:23
Cassandra: What is that?
11:24
Ayo: Yes, well, first I want to go back to what you said about your lifelong dream.
11:28
Ayo: So that lifelong dream that I had as a older person in my forties and actually I didn't come to the term until I was coaching and explaining how I got to this place to clients and I realized I termed this thing called my life non-negotiable right, not just a lifelong dream.
11:49
Ayo: But what is it that I'm not willing to leave this earth without having experienced and for me it was motherhood.
11:57
Ayo: So it's not just a dream.
11:58
Ayo: It was a yearning that I have to do this in order to feel fulfilled, and I know that God didn't put me on this earth with this great dream and urge to not have that fulfilled.
12:17
Ayo: So I had to go through the process, as you said, of changing mindset.
12:19
Ayo: Am I going to be limited by societal norms?
12:20
Ayo: Or looking at the reality of my life, the desires of my heart, and say, okay, what is it that you can do to achieve this?
12:28
Ayo: And so, 10 years later, my daughter's now 10, her story, our story, is amazing.
12:36
Ayo: It's a miracle in itself.
12:37
Ayo: I didn't have a lot of help in navigating the open adoption journey period and then the open adoption journey.
12:47
Ayo: So adoption has you going through the path to become a mother, through someone placing their child with you to raise, and that's adoption.
12:59
Cassandra: One thing I'm sorry to cut you off, but I have a question Were you coaching before you start pursuing this adoption or you started coaching as you were pursuing?
13:13
Cassandra: You realize that was something, a gift you had that could help others, because I understand you were in real estate.
13:18
Cassandra: You did a phenomenal job in real estate.
13:21
Cassandra: You were on television and all of that.
13:23
Cassandra: So did the coaching start with you pursuing the adoption, open adoption?
13:30
Ayo: Well, actually, the coaching actually started when I became a certified mentor in real estate.
13:36
Ayo: So I was coaching in real estate, but not not in adoption at all.
13:41
Cassandra: You know when I was in it.
13:42
Ayo: it was so very new there, I was experiencing it, I.
13:46
Ayo: There was no way for me to look back and say, oh yeah, I could help somebody else.
13:51
Ayo: Not at that point.
13:52
Ayo: I was still trying to figure everything out myself.
13:54
Ayo: Um, but now, 10 years later, and looking at what I have been able to create with the birth family, what I've been able to establish within the relationship with my daughter, um, I realized, oh, you do have a lot to share, and this is this experience has not been for you to go through, to keep it to yourself.
14:17
Ayo: You've gone through this in order to share with others who are in the same position, have the same desire and are either considering never becoming a mother because they can't do it in the normal way, or they just need to find the right person, the right coach, to say yes, you can do this, and I'm going to show you how.
14:39
Cassandra: Okay, okay, so you found someone that helped you.
14:45
Ayo: No, I didn't, so everything was on your own Everything Okay.
14:50
Ayo: For the most part, yes, yes, I had to.
14:53
Ayo: I had to figure it out and an extended amount of time because I was operating from a record playing that wasn't my record, that I had heard from society.
15:16
Ayo: Oh the birth family is going to be jealous of you or angry, or they're the enemy, and so you have that playing in your mind and that's not necessarily the truth.
15:27
Ayo: The truth is that when birth parents are putting a child, placing a child for adoption, they want the best for that child.
15:36
Ayo: They want to know that the decision that they're making and putting their child with you is going to result in their child having the best possible life that they possibly could have and that they could not give them themselves.
15:52
Ayo: So the relationship.
15:54
Ayo: If you start with that, if you start with a place of grace, then you understand that there's no need for fear or one party against the other.
16:03
Ayo: We're a team because we have a genuine desire for the well being of that child that we have in common.
16:14
Cassandra: So, when you were okay because I know there are different reasons why people put their children up for adoption Like, one of them indicated that it's for the child's best interest that they do that, and then there's some they have to, you know, and there are perhaps some other reasons, but when you were pursuing that, was it a prerequisite for you to adopt someone whose parents wanted to put them up for adoption because they wanted better for them, or did you know the reason that you want to know what the reason was why a child was put up for adoption?
17:01
Cassandra: And these are newborns, right?
17:04
Cassandra: You wanted to adopt a newborn, right?
17:07
Ayo: For me, yes, that was always my dream.
17:09
Ayo: I always had a dream of being pregnant, so I wanted to know what that felt like, and if I didn't have that opportunity to be pregnant, I certainly wanted the experience of mothering a newborn domestically, through a private adoption or through a birth family right?
17:35
Ayo: If you're talking about someone, or the child has been taken out of the home or you know there's some kind of safety concern, then that means that the city or state has stepped in and that child is now probably under guardianship of the county or the city.
17:51
Ayo: That's a little different.
17:52
Ayo: That means that child welfare is involved.
17:54
Ayo: And then that also is a little bit difficult to not impossible, but it's going to take a lot more effort to create an open and friendly relationship with the birth parent, because in the situation where a child is removed, their parental rights are generally, generally, um, terminated, okay, and that, that, and if you're terminating rights that are not wanting to be terminated, then that can lead to contention.
18:26
Ayo: But people going to birth parents and birth mothers going through the adoption process they have already decided that this is best for the child and for them and they're not going to protest termination of the rights, which means then the adoptive parent can take over the parental rights and be issued those rights.
18:45
Cassandra: Good Thanks for the clarification.
18:47
Cassandra: So is there a like what agency?
18:51
Cassandra: I'm sure there are a number of them that you can go to when you're ready to adopt, and what's the criteria that the agency is looking for for you to do that?
19:15
Ayo: Well, each agency has their own criteria.
19:16
Ayo: You would have to go online and just go through, look on the internet and see which ones have which criteria.
19:19
Ayo: I actually have a list on my website that people can go to openadoptionsuccesscom, and you can go there and there's a link to a download that will show you what the bigger agencies are looking for.
19:29
Ayo: You can also adopt through a private adoption.
19:32
Ayo: It could be someone you know at your church or your work and they know a young woman who's wanting to place their child for adoption.
19:40
Ayo: You don't have to go through an adoption agency and you can also obviously go abroad overseas, but that generally is you're going to be looking at an older child and a lot more paperwork and a lot more waiting.
20:18
Cassandra: So what?
20:20
Cassandra: You decided to go to a certain agency, and if so, why?
20:28
Ayo: Initially, I went to a Christian agency, but I didn't finish at the Christian agency and I would say that if you're looking at an agency, don't limit yourself to a denomination.
20:42
Ayo: You want to choose an agency that has good staffing, that understands what you are looking for, that listens to you, that doesn't impose their wishes upon you, because we each have a mindset Not, I shouldn't say, mindset.
21:00
Ayo: We each have a way of envisioning ourselves as mothers.
21:06
Ayo: Right, I envisioned myself as a mother who traveled all over the world with my baby.
21:11
Ayo: My motto was have baby will travel, and I was going to continue my lifestyle of travel.
21:22
Ayo: So that meant that I needed a child who could keep up with me, right, basically, physically.
21:26
Ayo: So taking a child that had physical ailments or that was neurodivergent or something like that, wasn't going to work for the lifestyle that.
21:36
Ayo: I envisioned for myself, but that doesn't mean that there are single women or couples out there who are graced by God to be able to take on a baby that has neurodivergency or has some kind of physical ailment.
21:56
Ayo: There are parents out there for every kind of child out there.
21:59
Ayo: That's the beautiful part about it and that's the beautiful part of adoption, and so don't limit yourself that way.
22:08
Ayo: Do your homework, find out if they are they listening to what it is that you want.
22:15
Cassandra: How much?
22:15
Ayo: do they cost?
22:16
Ayo: What's their process like?
22:17
Ayo: Are you as a single woman put on the back burner, or are you presented to birth parents in an equal measure to couples?
22:25
Ayo: You know there's all of those type of things.
22:28
Ayo: Do they give you any kind of training?
22:30
Ayo: They give you any kind of training?
22:36
Ayo: Do they offer classes?
22:37
Ayo: Do you want one that's local to you, or are you able to travel across the country at the drop of a dime because you have to get there?
22:41
Ayo: So there are all sorts of reasons to choose and look at a particular agency.
22:47
Cassandra: Right, so what you're saying is, depending on the agency, they all some asked.
22:52
Cassandra: They all perhaps asked similar questions, but some of them can be very different, different questions.
22:57
Ayo: Oh yeah, absolutely, and you want to also make sure that you are happy with that agency before you give your money.
23:08
Ayo: Because, I was with that agency and another opportunity for a child came about and I had literally just paid my money, my down payment, the first payment, when I got the call to be considered for another agency that was local to me.
23:25
Cassandra: And.
23:26
Ayo: I called them all happy.
23:27
Ayo: I was like hey, guess what I got chosen by a birth mother, so can you refund my money?
23:33
Ayo: They're like sorry, no, I had already given it.
23:36
Ayo: Yeah, per our rules.
23:38
Ayo: So you want to be sure which agency you're going with and I would not.
23:44
Ayo: I would say I would not recommend going with an agency until your paperwork is completed.
23:50
Ayo: You know that means that your home study is done, that you have done all your fingerprints, that you have the AOK to be able to take a child home from the hospital.
24:01
Ayo: I would recommend, you know, going about six months or so and looking for yourself to see you might be able to avoid some costly payments going by yourself.
24:15
Ayo: But then if going by yourself and going that route does not feel good to you or it's not easy enough, then go with an agency but just make sure that once you pay your money, you're okay with losing it If a baby comes another way and not through that agency.
24:33
Cassandra: Yeah, and of course, cost is a factor and it can range from what to what, based on your research.
24:43
Ayo: It can range from $25,000 to $60,000.
24:47
Ayo: It really depends.
24:47
Ayo: If you're going overseas, there are more costs involved.
24:51
Ayo: It depends on the agency, how small the agency is or how large it is, how much staff they have.
24:57
Ayo: Right, it's like any other thing.
24:58
Ayo: They have overhead and so they have to build in costs based on what it means to have a functioning agency.
25:06
Ayo: So, you know women in their 40s and 50s who are professional.
25:12
Ayo: Like you and I.
25:13
Ayo: We generally have money saved away or we have access to money.
25:19
Ayo: We have a 401k, we have something, we have disposable income, so that age group generally is able to afford adoption.
25:30
Ayo: You will have to put money down, payments, and they can break it up.
25:35
Ayo: You're not paying the $60,000 cost or $25,000 cost all at once.
25:40
Ayo: It's by, you know, incrementally.
25:43
Ayo: But you also get a tax credit.
25:45
Ayo: So I forget the amount for this year, I want to say 14,000, but whatever the, you can easily search the number.
25:54
Ayo: Just go online and find out what the adoption tax credit is for 2024.
25:59
Ayo: And it hasn't really changed over the last couple of years, but that's a huge benefit, right?
26:04
Ayo: If you're thinking about, you know, a $35,000 fee from an agency knocking $14,000 off.
26:12
Ayo: You're not getting anything in cash, but you're getting it off of your taxes and you know there are many scholarships out there.
26:22
Ayo: There are agencies and some of the agencies have their own scholarship programs.
26:27
Ayo: There are foundations out there that give money to people who are looking to adopt.
26:32
Ayo: Yeah, and you can do crowdfunding if you wanted to.
26:36
Ayo: You know, get your family and friends involved in your dream of motherhood.
26:39
Ayo: So it shouldn't, don't let money be the factor that stops you either.
26:45
Cassandra: Okay, okay, wow.
26:47
Cassandra: That's some great, great information.
26:49
Cassandra: You talked about a holistic approach to adoption, right?
26:55
Cassandra: Tell us about that holistic approach.
27:03
Ayo: So I think of the adoption process as an ongoing journey.
27:09
Ayo: It's not just one thing right, it's a series of minor miracles that leads up to a major miracle, and so I like to take care of my clients mentally Like where are you?
27:23
Ayo: Is this something that you really feel like you are called to?
27:26
Ayo: Is this something that you want or that you feel there's an expectation from family, or vice versa?
27:34
Ayo: So, dealing with mindset, what I'm working with with one client who's just starting their adoption journey, and a client that's already doing their paperwork and a client that is bringing baby home and a client that's had a baby home for a year is completely different, but it all involves remembering to honor what it is that you want for your life.
27:59
Ayo: What is your truth?
28:02
Ayo: How is it that you would want someone to treat and interact with you?
28:08
Ayo: So, there's no.
28:09
Ayo: When I talk about working with birth families, they're not the enemy.
28:13
Ayo: They're not the enemy.
28:15
Ayo: When I say open adoption, I mean not only are you having a conversation or in conversation with them.
28:22
Ayo: It could be through a social worker, through the agency.
28:25
Ayo: Mine happens to be direct contact.
28:28
Ayo: And we decided that in the hospital it's all individualized, but it also means open in that in your, within your home, your child understands how your family came to be, because of how they were brought into your life.
28:44
Ayo: There's no secrets, there's no fear.
28:46
Ayo: We don't operate in fear.
28:48
Ayo: And holistically, if we can erase fear from the whole process.
28:54
Ayo: you breathe, and I say that with a lot of looking back, because I when I say, cassandra, I had my hands on the wheel trying to direct traffic and make this process go faster because, as a single woman, I was told, yeah, you can adopt, but it's going to take you about a year and a half before you find a birth parent that's going to be give to, to have you be their child's parent, because you're single.
29:19
Ayo: That turned out not to be true.
29:20
Ayo: Again, we can't listen to what everyone tells us, right, because what God has for us is for us and his timing is beyond anything that man can ever can construct.
29:31
Ayo: So we can't go with what normally happens, because every single adoption story is slightly different in some way.
29:42
Ayo: I mean, there's no two ways that it all happened right.
29:47
Ayo: And so holistically.
29:50
Ayo: We deal with the whole person, the whole you.
29:53
Ayo: Making sure you're confident in who you are, confident in your decisions, confident in your judgment, confident in includes changing how you are now employed, because you now want to be home with your child instead of being away nine to five and having a babysitter.
30:21
Ayo: Like you didn't go through all of that to become a mother, to then spend all these hours outside of the house.
30:26
Ayo: So I find a lot of women then decide to become entrepreneurs or work from home so they can still have that experience of being able to be a full-time mom.
30:38
Cassandra: What do you think?
30:39
Cassandra: What is the benefit for the birth mother, from your opinion, to know where?
30:49
Cassandra: I know there are advantages and disadvantages for the birth mother to know where their child is, because I know people who have adopted someone and they didn't want the mother to know because they thought when the child got older they want to go see their mom, they want to find their mother or whatever.
31:09
Cassandra: Right, so what?
31:10
Cassandra: I guess I said that the benefits or advantages maybe, or disadvantages, because it sounds like for you what you wanted was to know the birth mother.
31:22
Cassandra: You want to be involved in that.
31:24
Cassandra: Were you hesitant or did you want to know?
31:29
Cassandra: Did you?
31:30
Cassandra: You wanted your child to know the birth mother?
31:32
Cassandra: Uh huh, and so I Right, so I'm a very inquisitive person.
31:34
Ayo: Did you want to know?
31:35
Ayo: Did you?
31:35
Ayo: You wanted your child to know the birth mother, right?
31:40
Ayo: So I'm a very inquisitive person.
31:42
Ayo: I probably could have been a private detector.
31:44
Ayo: Like I have questions.
31:44
Ayo: That's why I'm good with interviews.
31:45
Ayo: I have questions.
31:46
Ayo: I want to.
31:46
Ayo: I want to know what the answer is Right.
31:49
Ayo: And so, like all of us, when we don't have the answer, answer is Right.
31:56
Ayo: And so, like all of us, when we don't have the answer, usually the worst thing that can happen is that we create the answer in our head and the answer is probably so far away from the truth that it either stops us in our place from moving forward or we're we're working off of wrong assumption.
32:11
Ayo: So I didn't want to do that.
32:13
Ayo: I don't like to to live my life that way.
32:16
Ayo: I like to have direct talks with people, right and I.
32:21
Ayo: Sometimes it's very difficult, right?
32:23
Ayo: It's not easy to have a heart to heart.
32:26
Ayo: So, yes, I definitely wanted to know who she was.
32:28
Ayo: I did not have that privilege in the pregnancy.
32:32
Ayo: It wasn't until the day she was giving birth that I met her and we connected in the delivery room and that was where the open adoption, the openness, came about, because we said, oh, you're human, I'm human, all we do, all we want, is for the best for this child.
32:53
Ayo: Do you want to keep in touch?
32:54
Ayo: Okay, and it's been respectful.
32:56
Ayo: It hasn't been like I want pictures, give me pictures.
33:00
Ayo: Who's the?
33:00
Ayo: No, none of that.
33:02
Ayo: It's very respectful on their side.
33:05
Ayo: I'm very easily giving them pictures to say, hey, you probably want to see this picture, you know and and be able to say this is your child.
33:17
Ayo: Imagine if you placed a child up for adoption and you never saw them again, and perhaps you never even saw them when you when you birth them.
33:29
Ayo: What kind of stories are you creating in your head?
33:32
Ayo: You're you in this place of, I wonder, I wonder is this child walking past me, my daughter or my son?
33:41
Ayo: What would she look like now?
33:43
Ayo: That's wasted energy.
33:45
Ayo: When you can easily have access to that, when I can say, hey, here's her first birthday, here's this, here's that.
33:52
Ayo: By the way, who in your family is tall?
33:55
Ayo: Um, can you, would you mind showing me what the rest of your family looks like?
34:00
Ayo: And these are things that happen over time.
34:02
Ayo: But it's just like a, a basic friendship, right?
34:07
Ayo: We're not asking you to be best buds.
34:09
Ayo: If you become best buds over time, amazing but it's about having a respectful relationship with the family.
34:19
Ayo: That graced you with the thing that you said you wanted most and you asked God for it and he delivered.
34:26
Ayo: So that means that I can only, and I should only, consider my interaction with her with grace and love, as long as there's no reason for me to put separation.
34:38
Ayo: If there's a reason for me to be fearful about my child's well-being, okay, that's a whole different story.
34:45
Ayo: But that's not the reality, and that's not the reality for most people, in fact.
34:50
Ayo: People, birth parents, birth mothers who do not see their children, who do not say goodbye in the hospital, are the ones who will cancel the adoption.
35:02
Ayo: So why would you not I let my daughter's birth mother spend time with her at the hospital, say goodbye, mourn her.
35:14
Ayo: There's joy on one side in my room, right.
35:18
Ayo: Everybody's like, oh my gosh, we're so happy for you, and then you have a mourning.
35:25
Ayo: It's almost like a death right you have to appreciate the grief that's going on on the other side.
35:30
Ayo: That's going on on the other side, and so how much better is it that you do not have adoption?
35:41
Ayo: That is being reversed because they have the answers, they have the relationship.
35:47
Ayo: And everyone I talk to says it's the best thing.
35:50
Ayo: It makes their lives on both sides so much better.
35:55
Ayo: And imagine I'm raising a child who doesn't have to wonder, well, why, why wasn't I kept?
36:02
Ayo: And for people say she'll go back to her mother.
36:06
Ayo: No, that's not her mother.
36:07
Ayo: I'm her mother, that's her birth mother, that's her birth parent, the person who brought her into the world.
36:15
Ayo: But she doesn't know her as a mother.
36:17
Ayo: I'm the mother.
36:18
Ayo: So why would she, why would I have a fear that she'd want to, you know, leave my home to go to her?
36:25
Ayo: Does she have a desire to get to know her?
36:27
Ayo: Absolutely, and that's normal.
36:30
Cassandra: So that's what we work with and that's normal.
36:36
Cassandra: So that's what we work with, wow, wow.
36:43
Cassandra: And your coaching definitely supports that whole thing, because you've probably seen it all as it relates to that.
36:46
Cassandra: And, as I indicated, I do know people who have adopted and as they get what they say, when they become teenagers they say they start smelling themselves and they'll say well, I'll go find my mother.
36:56
Cassandra: You know, it's just part of, you know, I guess, adolescence or whatever Right, so I mean there are people who will say that yeah, yeah, but there are other kids who you know, it's not even a thought to them.
37:12
Ayo: OK.
37:13
Cassandra: OK, ok, ok, great, could, ok.
37:22
Cassandra: So I was going to ask you about living on your terms.
37:25
Cassandra: So that journey you went on, that transformative journey that you went on, that that was on your terms.
37:31
Cassandra: Right, you were like I still want to work, you travel, you indicated when you had her and um, and she's how old now Nine?
37:41
Ayo: Yeah, she'll be, she'll be 10.
37:43
Ayo: And before her second birthday and before the pandemic happened, we had visited five countries.
37:48
Ayo: Um, I brought her with me everywhere you know.
37:53
Cassandra: it was like let's go Wow, okay, that's that's.
37:57
Cassandra: That's a great story.
37:58
Cassandra: That's awesome.
38:00
Cassandra: Did you have being single?
38:07
Cassandra: Was that a barrier?
38:10
Cassandra: Initially because the agencies think that the child should have a mother and a dad.
38:16
Cassandra: Like, what was your experience with that?
38:18
Cassandra: I think it's more.
38:22
Ayo: I don't think it's necessarily.
38:24
Ayo: The agencies think that the child should have a mother and a dad that the birth parents or the birth mother more than likely will want a double, you know, a husband and wife for their child, as opposed to a single family household.
38:40
Ayo: But a lot of birth mothers who are, you know, in the adoption process or considering adoption come from single family homes, so it's not unusual for them to go.
38:50
Ayo: This makes sense to me.
38:51
Ayo: This having her, a single mother, raise a child makes sense.
38:57
Ayo: It's okay.
38:57
Ayo: And, you know, in my case the birth mother said she's single but she won't be for long and forever.
39:03
Ayo: And it's true.
39:04
Ayo: I mean, I haven't found my husband yet, but I have every desire and intention to find him and I know at the right time it will happen.
39:15
Cassandra: Yeah, exactly, exactly Wow.
39:20
Ayo: Talk about Sandra.
39:20
Ayo: Oh, sorry, I was going to say I actually have a client who is still dating and she has a new baby that she just adopted.
39:28
Ayo: So if you are on that track of dating, you don't have to stop it as long as you have a great support system you can still go ahead and date because you still have that dream of finding a husband, of being a wife, of having your child have a father.
39:46
Ayo: So you can't sit home for the rest of your life expecting to find a man.
39:52
Ayo: If that is your desire, you have to get out, you have to still date, you still have to have a life.
39:58
Cassandra: Right, I love yourself.
40:00
Cassandra: I think it's the self-reflection questionnaire you know for individuals who are thinking so you will provide that information for them and then you will talk through it because you want to make sure that the rationale behind wanting to adopt is not selfish Right.
40:22
Ayo: Well, it's not necessarily selfish.
40:24
Ayo: It's more that you know what it is that you want.
40:27
Ayo: Because you want to create an adoption plan I, like I've been using the term adoption doula right, if you are a woman who's pregnant and you want to set a birth plan about how you're going to deliver and all of that, you work with someone, a doula, to record that.
40:45
Ayo: The same thing with me, right?
40:47
Ayo: I want you to say do you want a boy?
40:49
Ayo: Do you want a girl?
40:50
Ayo: Does it matter?
40:51
Ayo: Do they, um, can, can they have any kind of physical ailments?
40:55
Ayo: Do you want a black child, a white child, a mixed child?
40:58
Ayo: This, I want you to be so clear, because in being clear, you will also call into God, will make it very happen that you will find the child that you are very clear about, and so you don't have to worry that when presented by the agency with another child that's outside of what you said you can go back and say, hmm, I did say this, but does this really pertain to me right now?
41:28
Ayo: Would I be okay with a girl, even though I said I wanted a boy, you know.
41:32
Ayo: So it's a conversation piece, so it's not about selfishness.
41:36
Ayo: It's more about being selfish for yourself and not being pulled here and there by other people's opinion about how you should live your life, based on your marital status, if you want to have a child.
41:56
Cassandra: Right, okay, yeah, because I do remember I had a I'm not saying any names, but an individual who wanted to adopt and the parents were against it because she was single.
42:10
Cassandra: So therefore, because her parents were against it, she never did, but by the grace of God she got married and he had children.
42:22
Cassandra: So that helped in a great way.
42:25
Cassandra: And then after that, then he had a child, so then she had a baby, a grandchild baby, so it all it all worked out, yeah.
42:35
Ayo: Well, there's a.
42:37
Ayo: I will say that she still didn't get the child that she wanted but, yes, it's you know you, your spouse's kids are yours, but you still wanted that little baby of yours that you couldn't say.
42:50
Ayo: I raised from from the cradle and I will say that it is not fair for other people in the family, including parents, to impose upon their adult children what it is that they want for their child how to live their life when they've already had the chance to live their own life.
43:10
Ayo: And when they are gone, who does your child have, literally, I mean?
43:18
Ayo: I was raised in a single family household.
43:20
Ayo: My dad passed away 10 years before my daughter came along and then my mom passed away 10 months before my daughter came to be, before my daughter came to be, came to, was born.
43:31
Ayo: So if I had listened if that's not the case, right, neither said anything about my situation.
43:44
Ayo: But if that had been the case, where am I when I don't have a mother, a father, brothers or sisters?
43:47
Ayo: And but I have this huge desire?
43:49
Ayo: But because I felt it was more important to live up to their expectations of me rather than my desire for my own happiness, what will make me happy?
43:59
Ayo: I'm left holding an empty bag?
44:02
Ayo: No, no, they live their life.
44:05
Ayo: You say thank you so very much.
44:07
Ayo: I appreciate and respect your opinion, but I have to do what's in my heart and I pray that you will come around and support me when I bring your grandchild home.
44:20
Ayo: Well, said well said, right, right, that's it, yeah, and I'm not going to say that.
44:27
Cassandra: Right, and that's why I was talking about people are stuck.
44:29
Cassandra: They're stuck because of what somebody else wants them to do, not being their true self and not living on their terms, and it's not a bad thing.
44:39
Cassandra: It's what you want.
44:40
Cassandra: It's not what other people want, but yet you can share that with respect to the parent or whomever thinks that it's not a great idea, and for them to state it, as you did and I think that was well said and I think it definitely needed to be said on on is your way, in your way, because that's one way you get in your way by doing and wanting to do to please other people.
45:06
Cassandra: So thanks so much for saying that.
45:09
Ayo: And you said something earlier about, you know, being a career woman.
45:12
Ayo: We know that, statistically, people who have higher degrees tend to not have as many children and they have them later.
45:20
Ayo: Now add a layer of black women or minority women.
45:25
Ayo: Right, there are less counterparts on that same educational level.
45:30
Ayo: There's the mismatch of numbers happens right.
45:33
Ayo: So you have to then decide okay, how am I going to proceed forward?
45:40
Ayo: And we then couple all of that with the cultural normalities of in our culture, black culture, you are told to be respectful of your elders, you listen to what they say, you speak when you're spoken to, only and not any.
45:58
Ayo: And all those layers makes there a record playing in the background that keeps us from living our authentic lives.
46:10
Ayo: And so at some point we have to break that record.
46:13
Ayo: We have to say I have to go against the norm and live according to what God has placed in my heart.
46:23
Ayo: And I'm a reasonable woman, I'm a smart woman, I'm an educated woman, I know a few things about life, so I know what's best for me and trust that.
46:35
Cassandra: Exactly, exactly, well said, ayo, I love that.
46:39
Cassandra: So call to action Because, as I indicated, even if my listeners have this desire to think what you're talking about is something that they always wanted but didn't because of those limiting, those roadblocks that you just talked about, um, I wanted you to, um, tell them how to get to your what I your guided self-reflection questionnaire In this way.
47:15
Cassandra: It'll help them to understand what they truly want and how to prepare and I am challenging those who are have this desire or this urge, or something you've always wanted to make a move and do that call to action plan with the questionnaire.
47:36
Cassandra: So, again, share with them, my listeners, how can they get to that questionnaire and what they can expect after they complete it.
47:49
Ayo: So there are no right or wrong answers to the questionnaire.
47:52
Ayo: It's really for us to one, for you to have a conversation with yourself, write it down and then we'll have a conversation, and you can find that questionnaire and other resources regarding adoption on my website called openadoptionsuccesscom.
48:12
Ayo: You can also find me through adoptionduelacom It'll go straight there.
48:17
Ayo: I'm working on other resources.
48:19
Ayo: I'm almost finished with a blueprint the single woman's blueprint for adopting, and that'll take them through a webinar and then there'll be a longer course, a four-week course.
48:30
Ayo: So stay in touch with me.
48:33
Ayo: New things are developing all the time.
48:35
Ayo: I have group coaching.
48:37
Ayo: I have a Facebook group also that they can find.
48:41
Ayo: I'm easily found on social media and I'm excited to be able to work with any woman and any couple actually, couples are coming now too, who are have a heart to have a child and they just need to know how to navigate that path to to adoption and then to establish a relationship with the birth mother or birth family that leads to openness and and a child who will feel very loved from both sides.
49:16
Cassandra: So listeners take this as a confirmation of something that you perhaps been thinking Maybe you're not able to have you to be the birth mother, but you can still be the mother, the birth mother, but you can still be the mother.
49:36
Cassandra: So I just encourage you and I want to thank Ayo for her time.
49:38
Cassandra: This has opened up my eyes.
49:40
Cassandra: This is something that I'm not familiar with at all, but, thanks to Ms Haynes, she's opened my eyes and increased my understanding.
49:49
Cassandra: Ms Haynes, she's opened my eyes and increased my understanding and as I come across individuals which I'm certain that I will I will certainly refer them to you, ayo, and I just want to thank you for being the person, the doula, the advocate, something unique, something I've not heard of before, advocate something unique, something I've not heard of before, and I know from this, because my listeners are going to share this.
50:19
Cassandra: It's going to be on all podcast platforms and I ask if you'd like this podcast or love the podcast, please click subscribe to it and also feel free to share it with anybody that you know.
50:36
Cassandra: This will be a blessing to.
50:38
Cassandra: So, again, I could talk.
50:41
Cassandra: I have more questions because I'm a curious person, but we can go on and on, but my listeners, they know how to get in touch with you and I just want to thank you very, very much for what you're offering the world.
50:54
Cassandra: God bless you.
50:56
Cassandra: Bye, for now.
50:57
Ayo: Thank you so much.
50:58
Cassandra: Yeah, and my listeners.
51:00
Cassandra: I say to you bye for now as well, God bless.