Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S6 E6 Frozen Fear - The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen- Part 2

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S6 E6 Frozen Fear - The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen- Part 2 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to True Crime and one Time. I'm Terry and
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm Mama.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Tonight we are uncorking the truth one of the darkest
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: crimes and breaking it down together with.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: You, one case, one conversation, and one or maybe two
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: glasses of wine. It's taking a job. It's time to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: get comfortable and double check those locks before we just started.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: So let's take a sip and dive in. Hello, Hello,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Happy Thursday, Happy Thursday. Who knows week? I know what's happening,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and thank you first giving all the goods to everybody
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: this week and for the foreseeable few ways say, for
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the foreseeable You're only going to get more of us
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: this month.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: I just set off camera. We've been together every night
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: this week so far.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: That's true, And I mean why we do like talk
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: every day? We don't talk every day, but like we've
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: been face to face. I know I love it. Yes,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Lady and Gray for band here, Kerry and I are
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: going to be bringing the rants to nights and every night.
• 1:26
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• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I think you all will be joining in
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: on the rants with us. I very much expect.
• 1:35
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• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Even if you're watching this on part of the replay crew.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: We want to know your rants too.
• 1:44
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• 1:47
  Speaker 1: other people's rants. I love it, and we do respond
• 1:50
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• 1:55
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• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I just went in. Let Jasper like our show. He
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: gave us a combs up. Thanks Jess, Thanks.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Wama, Since you're the rabbit hole that caused us
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: to be here, why don't you tell us what.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: We're covering tonight? All right? Well, tonight is part two
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: of our Frozen Fear the Butcher Baker of Alaska series,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: where we are diving it deep into infamous serial killer
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Robert Hansen, his endless number of victims who we refuse
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: to let be forgotten, and how all of it could
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: have been stopped numerous times. This is where the rants
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: come in. Just yes, no, Now, I just want to say,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the state of Alaska has a lot of blood on
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: their hands and we are here to shine a light
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: on all of it. It's truly unbelievable, Like, even if
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: you know of Hanson's crimes, all of the other stuff
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: isn't really well known own or talked about, and it's
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: like super important it is.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I knew about Hansen, but I did not know how
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: bad Alaska.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Screwed the poach a lot. And we're gonna happen a
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: lot and there'll be lots of rents and lots of
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: cursy words. But before we get into that, let's talk
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: about what we're drinking tonight, because you guys, if you
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: don't have something to drink, and you do drink, go
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: get it now because you're gonna want it. I promise.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting here going I poured myself with a glass
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: and I was gonna only stop at one glass, and
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: I may have made a bad decision, but I'm sticking
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: to my go to Josh seven blanc in my pink glass,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: trying to stay happy. But yeah, I'm gonna have to
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: text DOUBLEH and ask you to.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Bring the bottle. Just bring the bottle.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I hav an early day tomorrow five am. So I
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: was trying to be irresponsible.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Oh oh, that's gross. Don't like that for you. I well, tonight,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I am drinking again. It's green, so it's just going
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: to disappear like that when I held it that. I'm
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: drinking Magic Hour caramel Apple moscato, which is pretty good,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: all right. It smells delicious, it tastes delicious. Alcohol content
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: too terribly high. But let me tell you what though,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: this would be perfect in the fall, like, oh my gosh,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: October like it would be absolutely delightful. Okay, I will
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: mark I'll have to mark that down. Yes, it's it
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: tastes like caramel, green apples, smells, taste, it's it's really good.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: So I'm making a note that when it's full time,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I will be drinking some of that. But it's delicious.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I hope you're healing well since you can't have alcohol.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: It's okay to take the pain pill if they gave
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: you one, and if they didn't, shame on them.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Who are you talking to, Betsy Betty Ross?
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: She just said that she was recovering from dental surgery
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: today and she can't drink alcohol.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry I didn't see.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Do you just think I was having a conversation with
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: my veterinary friend?
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Did I did? Yes? I mean, you know you've talked
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: to me a lot this week. You're probably just bored
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: with me.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: And then I see that Lady and Gray has to
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: get up at three point thirty. Lady and Gray, that's insane. Yeah,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: mine's at five, and I am getting up at the
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: last possible minute, so like four fifteen.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: That's true. She gets to be off at nine so
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: she can have a nap. And then join us for
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: watching Laura Owen tomorrow and Lama learns about and all
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: those fun things. No fun drugs either. Boo boo for you, Stutty, Well,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: you guys, Let's get into the story of tonight's case
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: because this part two is going to be a little
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: bit longer than our first one. We just wanted to
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: leave it at a really good point. But in case
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: you missed it, we're going to do a quick opening
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: and recap though for you. So why don't you kick us? Yes?
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: In our last episode. At our last episode, we witnessed
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: the impossible. We followed Cindy Paulson as she escaped the
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: clutches of the butcher Baker, running barefoot and handcuffed across
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: the gravel of Merylfield.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Ouch.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: We saw the systematic failure of the Anchorage Police Department
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: and met an investigator who chose to believe the alibi
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: of a respectable businessman over the terror filled testimony of
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: a teenage girl.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Should I'm already get mad? We're talking about you, Investigator
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Bill Dennis. We have not forgotten your bannery. But we
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: also even though investor Investigator Bill Dennis sucks, we also
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: saw the spark of justice with Officer Greg Baker, who
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: refused to let the case go, and Sergeant Glenn Flok,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: who looked at Cindy's statement and realized that he finally
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: had a name for the shadow stalking the Alaskan Wilderness.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Now Robert Hansen was no longer a ghost. Now he
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: was a suspect. Ugh love that when justice starts happening,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: I'm karma.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: But one has to ask, how does a stuttering boy
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: from the Midwest become a serial predator in the Last Frontier?
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Well, guess what, guys. Tonight we're moving from.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: The narrow escape of Cidy Paulson into the wide, dark
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: history of a man who spent decades perfecting the art
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: of the hunt. This is the making of Robert Hanson. Yeah,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: let's go ahead and start to talking about his early years.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Don't worry, we won't be spending too much time here.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: But they are interesting, they are all right. So to
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: understand the man who had become the butcher baker, we
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: have to look at the boy who was forged in
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: the heart of a Pocahontas, Iowa bakery. Robert Christian Hansen
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: wasn't born a monster, but he was raised in an
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: environment that demanded absolute submission. His father, Christian, was a
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Danish immigrant who brought an old world style of discipline
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: to the family business. This wasn't a cozy, flower dusted childhood.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: It was a life of two am wake.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Up calls and look at that. We're just complaining about
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: waking up early. Idoh okay, now you guys can use
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: this for an excuse for work. Be like, listen, let's
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: git this guy was up at two am and look
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: what happened. Can't be no thank you.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: It was backbreaking labor before a full day of school.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: A acquaintances described Christian as a big, old, mean guy
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: who laid into his son. There was no praise in
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: that bakery, only the threat of failure. He sounds like
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: a nightmare.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to have to work all that before
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: going to school.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: I know I would have been falling asleep, especially during math.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Right, but Robert was fighting a battle. His father couldn't see.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Naturally left handed, he was forced to use his right hand,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: a common but psychologically damaging practice of the era. My
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: mom's in the chest, same thing happened to her. Many
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: experts believe that this force this forced writing style rewired
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: his brain and possibly triggered his lifelong stutter.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Combined with severe scarring acne, that stutter made him a target.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: In the cruel ecosystem of high school. Robert was the
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: other He was mocked by the boys and rejected by
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: the girls.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: While his much.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Younger sister Alice would eventually be a top student in class,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: secretary and eventually earning a PhD. Robert was the invisible boy,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: retreating father and father into a world of resentment.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Now on the surface, he tried to fit in. He
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: played football for the Pocahontas Indians, which is a very
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: interesting choice there but okay, though he was undersized and
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: overshadowed by the local stars. I was like he played football.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: He was a very tiny, very tiny kid, but they
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: was probably a school with like twelve people in it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: But he also wanted to impress his DoD.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that's true. Be a boy, that's true. But
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: inside the pressure was building. He would later admit that
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: every time a girl refused to date him, he retreated
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: into his mind to fantasize about doing quote all sorts
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: of harmful things to them. For years, these remained just
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: fantasies supplemented by small, undetected acts of shoplifting. He was
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: testing the boundaries of what he could take without asking.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: But eventually those fantasies weren't enough for him. This is
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: like a textbook.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: This is like textbook. When the world of people became
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: too painful, Robert retreated into the Iowa woods and the
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: silence of the forest. His stutter didn't matter, and his
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: scars didn't matter. All that mattered was the seventeen guns
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: he had inherited from his father.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: A boy. Now, hunting wasn't just a hobby to him,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: It was a reclamation of power in the woods. He
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: wasn't the boy being mocked. Instead, he was the one
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: doing the watching. He was the one with the power
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: of life and death. Which that's great.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Is creepy as shit. One classmate, Millie Duall, remembered a
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: chilling quote that revealed the darkness growing behind his eyes. Milly,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: if I ever see a cat, I will drive in
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: the ditch to kill it, because it kills the birds
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I like to hunt.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, oh, where they're cat people.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, they're just doing what they're supposed to. Even then,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: his love for nature was rooted in a desire to
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: eliminate anything that competed with his control. I'm sorry you
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: want to hit the cat just because it kills the birds?
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Do you not know what a cat was made for
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: and what a cat is supposed to do?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Right? And going out of your way? But this is
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: like him having ownership of things he doesn't have ownership over.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: He needed something to control in his life because he
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: didn't have.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Any happy member vers. They it's a mode account, lady
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and Gray, but her other one is eighteen months. They
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: do the profilers do know these serial killers, don't they?
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I mean it's so textbook, Yeah, so textbook. Now, after
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: high school, though Hanson joined the Army Reserve, Hanson's first
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: sexual experience was in New York City with a prostitute.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: He later described it as a quote wham bam, thank you,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: ma'am and counter and that it left him deeply dissatisfied.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: That sounds like a you problem. It sounds like you only.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Had enough money to pay for the entry level.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: He didn't pay for the girl for an experience. Now,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: to him, it was a humiliation that bordered on theft.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: So he came early, was humiliated, and then felt like
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: she took that from him. He was robbed of his
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: virginity and apparently failing at it. I mean, I'm not
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: saying it's a failure. I'm just saying, though, to him,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: it was so. From then on he vowed that he'd
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: always get his money's worth, and he would eventually learn
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: the only way to get that was at gunpoint. Red flag.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Indeed, I'd like, that is a huge red flag.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Gaps you mean, fu klong, those cats savage.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: By twenty one, Robert Hansen was living a double life.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: To the citizens of Pocahontas, he was a success story.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: He was a husband, a soldier in the Army Reserves,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: and a volunteer firefighter. He even worked as a drill
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: instructor for the local police academy. Such he had successfully
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: embedded himself into the very institutions of authority that at
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: once overlooked him interesting.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: But on the night of December seventh, nineteen sixty, the
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: respectable Bob Hanson stepped into the shadows. He didn't just
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: want to burn a building. He wanted to orchestrate a
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: drama where he was the lead actor. You guys got
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: your checklists from the FBI profilers get it out because
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: we got more to mark Dan y'all.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: And I do have to put on my h R
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: hat for just a moment. I see that y'all continually
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: want to ban our dear friend Savage, and that is
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: not appropriate to continue threatening him with empty threats.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: That is bullying him. This is all a joke, Savage,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: but straighten up. Okay, Oh she sounds so serious.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: So before we get into the actual details of what happened,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: let's listen to Hanson describe and downplay what happened.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: What exactly was it? Did you do? All? Right?
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: There was an old barn out behind it's a school
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: there in town and oh h ah who worked with
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: me there in the bakery? That's all there? And uh well,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: let's talk about that.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: We'd like to raise the excitement around town there just
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: already have a fun time, Darren, Darren one another to
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: do this or that or something other than that.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: Uh h, I laughed, I'm sorry, that's funny.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Went and did it?
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when you I don't think either one of us
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: was going there it ought in the mind of.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Actually doing it.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: Then we get there and uh so barn, we was
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: there and we said, wow, the basic excitement. We can
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: uh by the fire to it and uh oh h.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Ah. They said we was your friend with his at times. Okay,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I think about the end of that. Yes, he talks
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: so slow, slow, and then he has a stutter. It's painful.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: It's painful. God, that was awful. Now he says they
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: were just having a good old time. They were just
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: clared getting him some funual guys. No, no, no, no,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: that's not what really happened. So now Hanson recruited to
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: sixteen year old boys. Remember he's a grown ass man
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: at this point. He's like twenty twenty one years old.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: You're not a man yet. Well, now that's true. He
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: recruited these two sixteen year old boys who worked at
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: his father's bakery. These weren't his peers, but they were
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: kids he could dominate, right. He meticulously planned the arson
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: in the back of the bakery, the very place where
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: his father had laden oopscuse me, oh sorry, there's the
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: new merch idea where his father had laid into him
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: for years. The plan was very calculated. The boys that
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: were to come up with some excuse for their parents
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: and stay at the bakery and paint the ovens to
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: create a work alibi while the school bus garage went
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: up in flames. Oh well, they were just having some fun,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: just some excitement.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: My first question is, why are you painting an oven?
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Are you using spray paint? Are you using acrylic paint?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Because those get hot? I don't know. Was this a
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: thing back then? I don't know.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: You're going to need to add it to Loma Laurence
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: because I need to know why you would be painting
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: an oven. I've thought about it since I read this.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I never really thought about it though. Okay, when the.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Garage caught fire, the alarms blared across the quiet Iowa town,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Robert Hansen didn't run away. As a volunteer firefighter, he
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: put on his gear and rushed towards the inferno. He
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: was the first one there and stood at the front
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: of the line, hose in hand, fighting the very fire
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: he had set. And I bet, I bet his little
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: tally whacker.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Was at attention. Sorry, he didn't even know he was
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: going to do it, though, Terry.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Oh whatever, And I'll know that Mama wasn't going to
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: burn during an episode.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Come on, but it is. It's a chilling psychological profile
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: that of the arsonist tiero, which we have covered cases
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: of arsonists who were also firefighters, and it is a
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: very interesting profile for them. And you know, think about
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: he got to feel the godlike power of destruction, followed
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: immediately by the civic high of being the town's protector.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: And he was basically playing both sides of the board.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: And I just want to point something out real quick.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Remember this story for later when they were going to say, oh,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Robert was a loner, and oh he was he didn't
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: have any friends, blah blah blah, you're going to see
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: that that's all bullshit, all right, because if he was
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: just some little dweb that wasn't manipulative, couldn't get people
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: to work with him or live for him, he just
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: did it with two kids, saying.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: This a heat resistant coding that improves her Philip, but
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: on an.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Oven, I have to tell you, I texted Double eighths that.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I forgot to grab the bottle of wine and I
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: was going to need it.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: So he brought me a new class was that the
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: rest of the bottle.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know, I don't know. I
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: think that's his way of saying, you get one glass babe,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: that's it.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: It's probably right. Though, it's probably right.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Now, I have to say the hero wasn't as smart.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: As he thought.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, guys, the sixteen year old he'd recruited couldn't handle
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: the pressure. When the police started asking questions, the boys
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: pointed the finger directly at the man who had given
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: them the orders.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Faster than MBAM, thinking I was going to say something
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: really tacky, and I was like, yeah, Terry'd be nice.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to be kind to this ale. No way
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: he's going to say they last the way he did
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: in his first sexual encounter. Yeah, it's for this gay now.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: The arrest sent shock waves through the community. The town
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: was stunned. How could the Baker's son, the good kid
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: in the fire department do something so senseless? Right, Like,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, you would never.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, I heard the you just said that. Ever, I
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: heard the greatest thing on a podcast last night that
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: psychologists tell parents that the worst mistake you can make
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: as a parent is to say that my kid would.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Never That's probably true.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I was like, I never thought of it like that,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: And you should never say that about your relationships. You
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: should never say that about anyone because we are all humans.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: That's true. That's a fair point.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: So Hanson was sentenced to three years and the Animosa Reformatory.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: While he was behind bars, his first marriage to a
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: woman named Phoebe crumpled.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: We got lucky, Phoebe.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: She followed for divorce, unable to reconcile the man she
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: married with, the criminal who had burned down the town
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: school buses.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe you got lucky, sweetheart right now. Fun fact that
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Amos found that I denied was that just a few
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: months before Robert went to Animosa Reformatory, John Wayne Gacy
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: was there, So they weren't there at the same time.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: They just missed each other within like minds. Goodness. But yeah,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: can you imagine the two of those together. Yes, And
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: it's kind of weird and creepy, right, yeah, like six
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: months difference between the same year and everything. Very interesting. Now,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Robert Hanson's twenty months in the Anamosa Reformatory did more
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: than just punish him. It provided a chilling psychological blueprint
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of the man he was becoming. The psychiatric evaluations were
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: some say, we're devastating, devastatingly accurate. Doctors described a man
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: with a cocktail of mental health struggles like bipolar disorder
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: and schizophrenic episodes. I just want to know that I
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: very much question the reality of all of this because
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's bullshit. But whatever. But they did pen
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: his core identity with one phrase, infatile personality, which I
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: do agree with because I do agree with that. The
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: other stuff, I don't know. I mean, you'll learn the
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: more you learn about him.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Because it was the seventies, the sixties, but yeah, or
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: the sixties. Basically they just were labeling, you know, they
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: were just throwing out things.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a great time for mental health. It wasn't
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: in America. So like, I don't generally take any like
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: when you're going that far back, you really can't take
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: it super seriously because of a lot of the monstrosities
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: that happened in the early you know, nineteen hundreds to
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: mid Yet it now, it's not great. It's not great.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: It's not great.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: So Hanson was a manchild, which we all think already
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: figured out. He lacked the emotional maturity to handle the
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: word no. In his mind, every rejection.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Wasn't a part of life.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: It was a debt that had to be paid back
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: in blood or fire. No, Robert had no interest in healing.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: He wanted to get even He's yeah.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: That is very accurate. Now, while in the reformatory, Hanson
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: discovered a knew mass, a convenient one as many do,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: as many do in society. He found the Bible, you guys.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: He took courses from the Moody Bible Institute and leaned
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: heavily into religious counseling. So to the authorities it looked
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: like a breakthrough. Oh my goodness. They noted that he
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: was gaining insight and was no longer antisocial, because obviously
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: that's how all of that works.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: I guess I missed that because I didn't realize it
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: worked that way.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Not for people like this, it doesn't at all. Yeah, all,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: lady and Gray, you are correct. Too bad. He didn't
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: believe or retain any of it, or just what was
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: convenient for him.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but looking back, it's clear Handsome viewed religion not
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: of some moral compass, but as the strongest medicine to
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: suppress the urges he couldn't control. It was a tool
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: for his toolbox, another way to convince the world he
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: was a good man, so they would stop looking at
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: the monster underneath mm hmm.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: And guys, it kind of works for him, works out
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: for him. Hella, well, and that scares me. Reading the
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Bible to fix yourself as like Laura getting pregnant by
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: looking at someone. You know, right, there's like a lot
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: of other work that needs to be done. You know. Also,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: you know he doesn't give a shit about it. I
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: love that. So when Hanson was released early, oh train time,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Oh it's early tonight, okay do When Hanson was released
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: early and nineteen sixty two, he didn't emerge as a
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: changed man. What No, Instead, he emerged into a man or,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: as a man who learned that to survive, his mask
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: of respectability had to be even thicker. Between his nineteen
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: sixty three parole and his nineteen sixty seven moved to Alaska,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Hanson spent four years lost in the Midwest, and this
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: is a period that haunts investigators and researchers to this day. Okay,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I will definitely talk about this once we go through
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: this section, but just po boy.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Basically, he learned to be better at deceiving.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, okay, yeah, okay.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Why Because Robert Hanson was eventually arrested in Alaska, he
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: didn't just to confess to murders we know about.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I saw that, I wrote Roberty Anson. I
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: saw that. I was want to call him that because
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: I know you would hate it.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: He hinted at a darkness that started much earlier. Without Darla,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: his second wife, there to anchor him.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Bob went lost in cities like Minot. Is that right? Mino? Mino? Okay?
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Now Mino in Minneapolis, He said the he had the opportunity,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: the vehicle, and the lack of supervision to begin practicing
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: the hunt.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Now did he claim his first victims in the grain
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: belt of the Midwest. No, and we don't have the bodies,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: but we do have the pattern. Okay. He was a man.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: He was a man with a map, a car, and
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: an infantile personality that demanded he did even with a
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: world that had rejected him.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: On a funny note, can you imagine what your son
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: and my granddaughter would do if we handed them a
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: map and told them they had to use that to
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: find their way instead of using the phone.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I feel like little Lama would be like, I'll wait
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: till it gets dark and navigate the stars because I
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: know how to do that. Somehow, that's very much what
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: he would do. He'd be like, oh, I know, mom
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: that a north star and Venus is over here, and therefore, yeah.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know what monkey bet would do. But it
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: started in Walker, Minnesota. His parents had fled the shame
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: of the Iowa arson and bought a lakeside resort, where
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Bob met Darla for a moment. The manchild seems stabilized
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: by this romance. He even went to Chicago for a
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: three week stint at Wilton's cake decorating school.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: It was a.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Domestic harmless skill, decorating cakes, one that I've tried to
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: master and failed, but it became the primary camouflage he
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: would wear for the next twenty years.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, but the harmless baker was rarely in one place
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: for long. Through a family friend, he landed a job
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: in Mino, North Dakota. Yeah. So I was like, how
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: did I just tell you how to say that? I'm like,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I'm going to just call it minaut It's Mino, like Pino.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: I know, it's like Pino, Mino, Pino. Oh maybe it's Mino.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's no. Oh, jeez, anyway, hard Okay. Suddenly, though
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: he was three hundred and sixty three miles away from
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: his parents and even further from the watchful eyes of
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: the Iowa parole officers. Oh, oh, is this what you've
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: been yelling at us for not? Why not? Is it
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: really okay?
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: I thought I heard it something like that. That sounds
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: like I said, Mino, Ma, Not okay, lady and Gray,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: we got it three times?
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: We got it? Why not? Why not? Why not? Freezing
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: in the okay? Thank you? Savage.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Hanson's career with the Cox Bakeries was the perfect cover.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: The chain had thirty two locations across the Midwest, and
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Bob was there fill in manager. Whenever a manager went
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: on vacation, Bob was sent to run the show. Which
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: is scary that they were sending him all across the Midwest.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes it is. And we'll talk about that more
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: in just a second now in my not happy happy
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: now chat, miy not thank you. He's spent seven to
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: eight weeks here alone in an air force town on
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: the northern plains. A transient baker wouldn't stand out very much,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: and he's gonna notice him. And this was his first
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: real taste of post prison freedom, if you will. And
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: then Hansen went to Rapid City, South Dakota, where Darla
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: joined him, briefly working as a bookkeeper. But the stability
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: there was very short lived. And I wonder why, but
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: we don't know. But I have my suspicions. You have
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: your suspicions. I love that no one wants to go
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: to the air base. And my not.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Loved that because that tells me that when you get
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: that assignment, you're like, oh shit, what did I do?
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, So that's why you guys know how it's pronounced okay.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: That makes sense because you were air Force too, write savage.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Savage was a or he is a veteran. He was
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: a military guy. Because he was educating me the other day.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right, you did say that. Yes, well
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: then trying we take your word for it.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Yes. By nineteen sixty four, they moved again into Minneapolis, Minnesota,
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: so Darla could finish her degree. Bob worked at Meers
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Baker for a year and a half.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: He claimed to respect.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: His boss, calling him an awfully nasphila, but the bad
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Bob persona was simmering just beneath the surface.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: By the end of nineteen sixty six. The last years
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: were catching up with him. Small time trouble was starting
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: to brew again after he had been busted shoplifting a
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: few times. The Midwest was starting to feel too small
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: for him, and his record was starting to feel too heavy,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: not great.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, just quit shoplifting, be a better person. I mean,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: it's that easy. It's all the snow that drives you
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Yanks crazy. That's what's wrong with wama. Okay, I wondered, Probably,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I wondered. Robert looked at a map and saw a
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: place where a man could truly disappear into the landscape,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: a place where the law was spread thin and the
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: wilderness was vast. Together, in nineteen sixty seven, he and
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Darla turned their sights towards Anchorage, Alaska, OHO. But as
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: we know, Robert Hansen didn't leave his baggage at the border.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: He brought his infantile need for revenge with him and
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: it didn't take long for the bad Bob record to
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: start growing again.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: And this is.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Why Monkey Bud and my daughter in love are not
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: moving to Alaska.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Not happening, I agree. Now, before we go into this
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: next part, I do want to talk about this time
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: in his life because I have not dived super into it.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: That way, I could do all the research we needed here.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: But I will tell you all right now, as soon
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: as we are done rapping this up, my ass is
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: going to all the places in the Midwest where he
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: was around this time, because I truly believe, oh he
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: that there is missing person you know what, unsolved people
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: in these Midwestern cities at the time. We should lurk
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: them up.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: We should put a list of all of them and
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: split them up and let people on our team volunteer
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: to go down those rabbit holes.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I do like that idea, because I mean, it just
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: has to He's just every box.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: And then we could those cases and we could do
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: like special U Oh my god.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: And you really think that some little shoplifting is going
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: to make him one of the move in Alaska. No,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: it's going to be somewhere else a lot. Yeah, it's
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: going to be got to have a body there or
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: some Yeah. No, I have nothing to back up any
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: of my suspicion. It's all speculation. It's all speculation, and
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that other people have thought the same thing
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: as well. It's just we don't really they're not us anymore,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: but they're not us, and we got free time, and
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: I am going to be on this Midwest Well I
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: will soon little while baby, like we have free type,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: I'm like going where No, I do. I think that
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: there has to be a shit kind of stuff that
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: happened in these in these states. There's no way it didn't. Oh,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I know you just said, don't ever say never there
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: he is. Yeah, even if it's just raping women like
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: he has, he'd be like a series. He has a
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: footprint somewhere he.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Does, just like the Golden State Killer who's nor col
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: so cow.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, he couldn't contain it. They thought he stopped,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, this is you know, he's not caught
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: till what he's like in his forties or something like that.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: And no, and he says, oh, I've only been killing
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: for three years. Bullshit.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: He has been textbook on everything so far, so textbook
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: would say he didn't stop.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: And then there's just so much of jumping from one
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: place to another. I definitely think there is a string.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Agree fires, Amy, I'm like oursin because oursin you can.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Do that to get satisfaction.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: But he's a revenge person and he wanted to get
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: what he felt was o to Helm.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: So on his own and places where nobody knows his life.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Wasn't there perfect time to pick up a girl. Okay,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know what DOUBLEH is cooking, but oh my, oh,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: it smells really good. All right, well, let's get into
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: the next chapter of his early years. This is in
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: buckle Up. In Buckle Up, this is where we really
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: get into a shit now that we're entering into Alaska.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: So by nineteen seventy one, Robert and Darla had been
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: in Anchorage, Alaska for about five years, and to any outsider,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: they were the embodiment of the Alaskan dream. Robert wasn't
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: just a baker. He was a master of his craft.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: He was a father of two, a homeowner, and of
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: course a respectable member of the community. I mean, I
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: think the bar's really low here at this you know whatever.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: But it was in the wilderness that's where he truly excelled.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: He wasn't just a hobbyist.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: He was a record breaking hunter. I mean, look at
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: those horns.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: He's sold them. What are those horns? We saw his
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: creepy ass basement in the first episode.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he mastered the bow and the rifle, which is
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: impressive in learning how to track, how to wait, and
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: how to kill with clinical precision. In Alaska, being a
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: great hunter is a badge of honor. No one realized
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: he was simply practicing for a different kind of prey.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, while Robert was baking bread and winning archery trophies,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: the city of Anchorage was undergoing a radical, chaotic transformation.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: The discovery of oil on the north slope had turned
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: the city into a boomtown over nights. Just it's a
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: gold rush.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: If you will liquid gold, there we go. Yeah, I
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: guess it's not Texas, te since it's Alaska. If you
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: stood at the top of the Westward Hotel in nineteen
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: seventy one, you would see a city of stark contrast,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: you would see the transport planes from Vietnam, a sober
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: reminder of a world at war, lumbering into Elmendorf Air
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Force Base. But below them, on the street, it was
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: the pure wild West energy.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Sure was. Fourth Avenue became a Nean lit gauntlet of
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: saloons and bars like the Silver Dollar and the Nevada Club,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: And it was a place where money flowed as fast
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: as the liquor. And with that money comes the shadow economy,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: prostitutes line the streets, and cadillacs were parked three deep
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: in just a few miles south in Spinard Massage parlors.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: You know which kind were popping up on every corner?
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: What kind? The sexy lady kind, the happy.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Ending time, that happy ending kind. It was a city
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: of transience, oil workers and people looking to disappear or
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: get rich. It was the perfect ecosystem for predator. And
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: the noise and the hustle of the boom. People went missing,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: and the authorities were often too overwhelmed or to be
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: honest to front to notice.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I'm going with the last one different, Yeah, it's that one. Now.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy one was supposed to be the year the
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: story ended, but instead this is where the revolving door
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: of justice essentially gave a predator the green light to
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: refine his methods because Robert Hanson didn't look like the
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: boomers or the pimps on Fourth Avenue and looked like
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: a respectable businessman instead. That look was enough to buy
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: him another twelve years of freedom. All right, so just
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: put up in in that. Okay, all of this, all
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: this did not know how with what we're about to
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: talk about its happened. Oh God, here we go.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: The first major glitch in Hanson's Hanson's Alaskan Mask happened
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: with a young real estate secretary. This wasn't a street worker.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: This was a woman from the respectable side of society.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: And the way Hansen targeted her and the way he
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: almost got away with it is a chilling look at
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: his evolving mo o oh, sorry, I just saw that sign.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: It was November twenty second, nineteen seventy one, a freezing
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Alaskan evening. Susan Heppard, an eighteen year old real estate secretary,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: was doing something every Alaskan does in the winter. She
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: was plugging in her car's engine block heater after a.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Day of arc guys.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: I had to ask doubleh what the heck that was,
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: because I'm a Texas girl and apparently to keep your
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: engine block from cracking and stuff, Yeah, to plug it in.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Didn't know that, sus See, I can learn things. Suddenly,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: the cold.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Was replaced by the feel of steel. A man grabbed
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: her from behind, pressing a revolver into her back. As
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: he said, don't scream. The Susan didn't listen. She screamed
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: with everything she had. The man shoved the barrel against
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: her head and covered her mouth, threatening to blow her
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: brains out. Okay, guys, that is scary ash crap. But
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: then the sound of a distant siren cut through the air.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: The attacker panicked and vanished into the darkness. He thought
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: the snow would hide him, but in ten degree weather,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: the environment itself became a witness. When the Anchorage police arrived,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: they found a scene that looked like a movie set.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: They spotted a man walking through these sub zero temperatures
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: with no coat and no hat. He was practically vibrating
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: with tension. It was Robert Hanson.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: So the officers didn't just rely on his suspicious appearance.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: They followed a set of fresh footprints through the deep snow,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: and the trail led them to an abandoned car, where,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: tucked into a wheel well, they found an orange baseball
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: cab in a loaded thirty eight caliber revolver. Susan Heppard
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: looked at the hat, looked at the gun, and then
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: looked at Hanson, and she was certain that this was
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: the man. She's like, yeah, it's that creepy as yep,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: that's him.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Inside the interrogation room, with Detective Rice, we see the
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: first version of Robert Hansen, who would later set across
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: from Glen Flow. At first, he denied everything. He gave
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: a rambling alibi about driving to the airport to go
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: bow hunting and getting tense, so he decided to take
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: a walk in the freezing dark to clear his head
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: with no.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: Jacket or hat, as one does in tend degree weather. No,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: you don't right, it doesn't make sense. But then the
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: mask shifted, and when the evidence became too much to ignore,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Hansen pivoted. He didn't admit to a crying Instead, he
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: admitted to a malfunction. Okay. He told the detective that
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: if he was involved, he needed help because he had
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: an imbalance in his mind, which, by the way, is bullshit.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: Is total bullshit.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: And this is where Terry starts getting really frustrated. This
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: was a calculated move. He was painting himself not as
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: a predator, but as a victim of his own biology.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: He was essentially telling the police, I'm a good man,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: a baker, a hunter. I just had these episodes I
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: can't control.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Why did I just get all severed? I don't know
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: because he's not from there, but Okay, why not?
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Who goes It was a plea for pity that the
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: legal system was all too eager to freaking grant.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, now Hanson was arrested, and now in the system
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: he had been cut red handed with a loaded gun
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: and a kidnapped teenager. By all rights, there should have
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: been the end of his story, right guys, right, yeah, right, right.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: But as we'll see, Robert Hanson was about to learn
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: exactly how much a respectable reputation was worth and an
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Alaska courtroom.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I hate this because back in the seventies everything was
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: about reputation and how I mean, it's still there today,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: but he was even more back then. And that just so.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Christmas Day nineteen seventy one should have been a day
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: for a relief for Anchorage. The city had just survived
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: a brutal Arctic storm with gil force winds that had
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: literally torn pieces of torn pieces off mountains and dumped
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: them on the highways. No thank you, Nope. By the
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: twenty fifth the temperature hit a balmy forty.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Degrees, which is a freaking heat wave. That's the heat
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: wave in Alaska. It is. It's like the Warman's three
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: degrees everest.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: The sun was out, the skies were blue, and the
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: lawyer brought Loler lollular I can't say that Loler. Brothers
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Gary and Dennis decided to head south along the Seaward
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Highway to capture the scenery.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: So the brothers pulled into McCue's Creek State Park, a
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: place of rugged ridges and spectacular views of the Turnagan Arm.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Dennis found a ledge about twenty feet below a picnic area,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: a perfect spot to catch the light hitting the creek.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: And it looks gorgeous.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: It is stunning, It is stunning. But as he adjusted
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: his camera, his limbs caught that's something that didn't quite
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: belong in the landscape. Behind a bush partially dusted with
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: fresh snow, sat what looked like a discarded mannequin, which, guys,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you it is never a mannequin.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, have like any any like large amount of data
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: of people finding mannequins, Like, how did this become such
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: a common light? I just thought it was it's not
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: a manequin.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Because people's brain do not want to accept the reality,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: so their brain's protecting them, right, That's what I'm going with.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: He leaned in and he strained to focus.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: It wasn't plastic.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Instead, it was a young woman. She was nude below
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: the waist, her body cast at an impossible angle against
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: the frozen earth.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: And now when the state troopers arrived, they uncovered as of
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: absolute horror. The victim was Celia Beth van Zanten, an
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: eighteen year old who had just vanished days earlier. The
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: evidence told a story of a girl who refused to
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: go quietly. Her wrists were bound behind her. Behind her
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: back was speaker wire. She had been brutally assaulted, her
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: chest slashed with a knife. But Beth was a fighter
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: because somehow, despite her injuries and her bound hands, she
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: had managed to break away from her captor. She had
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: run for her life in the pitch black of an
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Alaskan winter night, with.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Her hands tied behind her in snow three feet deep,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: she had plunged down a dizzying fifty foot slope I
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: can't imagine, and that terrain without the use of your
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: arms were balance, Every step is.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: A gamble with potential death. Oh yeah.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: She had fought through the drifts, falling and rising again,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: trying to disappear into the black hole of the valley
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: to escape the man with the knife.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: And she almost made it, but the cold and her
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: wounds were a second predator. She couldn't outrun. She died
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: there on that ledge, just a few yards from safety,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: a testament to her sheer will to survive.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: While the Lawler brothers were reporting their discovery, Robert Hansen
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: was still a free man, dealing with the fallout of
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Susan Heppard's abduction attempt.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: The police didn't connect the two yet. Hmmm, oh, just
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: a little month apart. What I'm like, Uh, We're gonna
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: see that.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: They don't know how to connect the dots a lot.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Right, oh man now. Sergeant Walter Gilmore was literally tying
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: his tie for Christmas dinner when the call came in.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: He swapped his holiday plans for the frozen terrain of
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: McHugh Creek Campground. There he found Celia Beth Van's hand.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: She had been missing for two days. Last scene, heading
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: to a convenience store.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: The forensic clock was ticking, and guys, the weather was
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: the enemy. A light drizzle was turning the snow to slush.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: I'll do it, and Gilmour watched in frustration as a
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: collage of tire prints concentric circles left by the killer's
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: car melted away before they could be cast disappeared.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, besides best body, the investigator found a silver
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: belt buckle, a black leather belt, and strange tufts of
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: yellow tissue paper. Now, at the time, fun fact, they
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: were just fragments of a puzzle that didn't fit together. Okay,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: but today we know that yellow tissue paper is often
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: used were classed in bakeries to separate delicate pastries. Oh
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: my goodness, what.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: I can tell you can also buy them in pink nowadays.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, but I don't think seventy what I know.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, that's horrible to think that you
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: use something that you put around your croissant or your
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: doughnuts or your muffins. Is I'm trying to make light
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: of it, because that just freaks me out. In nineteen
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: seventy one, Amy, Yeah, in nineteen seventy one, the police
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: were prone to looking close to home. They zeroed in
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: on best foster cousin Greg It was a young man
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: with a shaky alibi, a history of carousing, and a
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: night of drinking so heavy that the APD had forced
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: him into a cab.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: But Greg passed a polygraph. Which one thing you're going
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: to learn. I'll just tell you all now in this story,
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: they love fucking polygrass. In the nineteen seventies, everybody did.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, it's unbelievable, unbelievable. And there comes Buffy. There
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: comes that actually summons Buffy. By the way, he didn't
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: know that, but it does. Yeah, don't take one. Don't
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: ever take one, all right, don't ever take one.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: And I ever talked to the cops about an attorney.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: Just don't do it. But anyway, back to this, but
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: all right, so Greg passed the polygraph. The neighborhood witnesses
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: added another layer of complication. They reported seeing Beth hitchhiking
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: as late as eleven PM, and in the wild west
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: of the oil boom, hitchhiking was common, but it was
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: also a buffet for a predator, as we know from
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: all of the bad hitch hiking stories of the seventies,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: which is a lot of them. The investigation was stalling,
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: sinking into the hitchhiker type case file where so many
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Alaskan murders went to die. And I'm curious, I want
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: to go through even more of Alaska's murders, and see
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: how many we don't talk about in this series that
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: could potentially be his as well.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, twenty four hours into the investigation, Sergeant Gilmour was
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: sitting in a silent trailer office when the intercom buzzed.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: Online.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: Two was JP, a legendary senior officer with deep roots
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: in the community. I think I got an informant that
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: may be able to help you, JP said.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Now this informant wasn't just a random street contact. No,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: it was the trooper's own daughter, Patty Roberts, also known
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: as Robert Robin Patterson or Sandra Patterson. There's a lot
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: of aliases for this lady, but many people just said
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Patty Roberts. So that's when I went with all right,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: remember trooper's own daughter, the State trooper's own daughter is
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: a cops kid. Yeah, okay. Now, she had been working
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: the streets of fourth Aue, and she had a story
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: to tell, a story about a meek baker who wasn't
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: nearly as harmless as he appeared. The year nineteen seventy
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: one should have been the end of Robert Hansen. In
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: a matter of weeks, he had attacked at least two
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: young women, and there was evidence that suggests a third.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: But here is the detail that's going to make your
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: blood boil. When Robert Hansen kidnapped Patty Roberts, he was
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: out on a personal recognance for the attempted kidnapping of
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: Susan Heppard. Yeah, the court looked at the respectable baker
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: and decided he wasn't a flight risk or a danger
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: to the community. But yet he had attacked a woman.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: M hm right, right that He then says he had
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: no control over because of some his body just didn't whatever.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Now listen, they couldn't have been more wrong because Hansen
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: didn't go home to reflect on his psychiatric imbalance. Now
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: he went back to the streets of Anchorage with a
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: gun and a plant. Mm hmmm. Oh, you guys are
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: about to be so mad, so mad.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Patricia Roberts, known on the streets as Robin Patterson, was
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: only eighteen years old. Like many young women drawn to
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: the neon lights of Fourth Avenue during the oil boom,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: she was trapped in a cycle of addiction. She was
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: working the streets to support a heroin habit.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: In the eyes of investigator Bill Dennis Douche and the
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: old Guard of the Alaskan Police Department. Patty would have
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: been labeled as unreliable, much like Cindy Poulsen was New
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: York under okay. But to her father, Thomas Roberts, she
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: was a daughter in trouble, and Thomas wasn't just anyone.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: He was a veteran Alaskan State trooper. Okay and yeah m.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: On December twenty sixth, nineteen seventy one, the day after
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: Beth Van Santon's body was found in the snow at
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: McHugh Creek, Thomas Roberts walked his daughter into State Trooper headquarters.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: He wasn't there as an officer. He was there as
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: a father, registering a complaint of abduction, assault with a
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: deadly weapon, and rape.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Now Patty's story was harrowing, and it mirrored this nightmare
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Susan Heppard had barely escaped, but because Patty was a
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: sex worker, she knew the police might not listen. By
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: bringing her father, a man who knew exactly how the
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: system worked, she forced the authorities to look at the
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Baker through a different lens. They weren't just looking at
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: a transaction gone wrong anymore. They were looking at a
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: predator who was specifically targeting women he thought the world
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: wouldn't miss.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: To all the officers out there, transactions very very rarely
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: go wrong.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: It's like the mannequin thing, Like, what are the odds
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: of that's what really happens. That it's our default that
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: that's what always happens. I don't Does it happen? Yeah
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: it does, But.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: We're talking such a small little.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Percentage, right like statistically, Yeah, okay, guys. Is about to
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: get worse.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: When Patty told the troopers. What Patty told the troopers
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: that day would provide the most detailed look yet into
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Hanson's twisted psychology and the physical deformities he tried so
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: hard to hide. Patty's nightmare didn't begin in a dark
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: alley or remote trail. It began at the Nevada Cafe,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: which was just blocks away from where Robert Hansen worked
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: as a baker at the Safeway on Ninth in Ingra.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: This is a classic trait of a predator gaining confidence,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: they begin to hunt in their own comfort zone. To Hanson,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: and this neighborhood was his territory. He knew the rhythms
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: of the streets, he knew which cafe stayed open late,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: and he knew exactly where the police patrols were and
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: where they weren't. It was a hunter.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: You know where the animals are, you know what time
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: of day they are, He used that scale people. It
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: was around four a m. On Sunday, December nineteenth. Patty
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: had just stepped out to start her car, letting it
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: warm up against the Alaskan.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Chill, much like Susan Hepbert.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: As she turned to head back inside for the last
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: of her tea, she found him waiting.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: And Robert Hanson didn't need with a pickup line or
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: a nervous stutter. He led with cold, calculated force, because
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: as Patty tried to brush past him, he pulled a
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: twenty two caliber pistol from beneath This don't give me
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: any trouble, he commanded.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: In that moment, Patty's world narrowed down to the barrel
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: of that gun, hidden under a baker's coat. He didn't
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: just ask her to get into the car, he claimed her,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: and because she was young, alone and staring at a
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: loaded weapon, she did exactly what he said. She stepped
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: into the vehicle, leaving her own car idling in the lot.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: A ghost of the life she was being stolen from.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: This is a quote from Patty. After I got into
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: his car, he took my purse from me to be
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: sure I didn't have any protection. This man was somewhere
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: between twenty three and twenty eight years old. It looked
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: like about five eight to five nine. Skinny, had blonde
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: hair cut fairly short, bluish green eyes, kind of a
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: turned up nose, and his face was kind of lumpy.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: He was wearing horn rimmed glasses, and he was dressed warm,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: had a coat or jacket on, and had the GI
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: type pants and dark heavy boots. Oh my gosh, that
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: sounds almost exactly like what Sandy Bonsen said to him.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: Essex say, sounds so similar. Once she was in the car,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: the meek Baker transformed into a tactical driver. He held
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: the gun in his left hand pointingly pointed directly at
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: her while steering with his right. Patty, terrified but incredibly observant,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: noted that this wasn't a revolver. This weapon looked like
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: an automatic pistol.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: I like her dad's. Yeah. Now. He began a series
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: of turns designed to disorient her, which is a common
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: tactic for predators who want to ensure their victims can't
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: find their way back. He was heading away from the
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: neon lights of the Fourth Avenue bars and towards the darker,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: quieter edges of the city.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Just before they reached Campbell Creek, a secluded area thick
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: with brush and shadow, Handsome pulled over. He didn't just
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: tell her to stay still. He reached into his pocket
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: and pulled out leather shoelaces.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: Now this is a detail that investigators would later look
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: back on with a shiver. He didn't have a roll
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: of duct tape or heavy rope that might look suspicious
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: in a car. He used something mundane, something he likely
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: had in his pockets at the bakery. But he used
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: them with the precision of a man who had practiced
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: his nuts. Don't be honest. It's pretty clever, it's excited.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: That's pretty clever. But on the other hand, how often
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: do you have to change out your shoelaces?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: That's true, I don't know. I don't even I.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Don't think I've ever changed out my shoelaces.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually, funny story is one time Lama, little Lama,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: we needed to get him new shoelaces because they were
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: not good and we haven't bought And I can tell
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: you I've never bought shoelaces as an adult, right, so
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: where like me and elbow feet are like, okay, well,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: where where do we go get shoelaces because we've never
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: even seen them? In let's exit, I didn't know it
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: was hard to find a pair of shoelaces. I think
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: we had to go to a foot locker. They were
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: outrageously priced because we couldn't find them anywhere else. And
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: then I was like, where do you go to? I
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: don't like, I didn't know shoelaces were a thing?
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, He tied Patty's hands behind her back and
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: bound her feet, and that she was no longer a passenger,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: she was cargo. By using the shoelaces, Hansom was able
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: to keep his kit small and inconspicuous if he were
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: pulled over. He was just a baker with some spare laces,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: but in the dark of Arctic boulevard, those laces were
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: effective as iron shackles.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm sure he could tell you some wicked.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: Nights currently, Lady in Gray. First of all, I only
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: have like two pair tiny shoes, and then a pair
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: of hiking boots that take laces. Everything else's heels or boots,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: and they don't work, ouire shoelaces. Maybe that's why.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: Let us know everyone, the last time you bought shoelaces? Okay,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: I cannot tell you the last time I bought shoelaces. No, No,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: not at all. Now, with Patty bound and helpless in
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: the seat beside him, Robert Hansen had crossed a threshold.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: The fantasies he had harbored since his lonely teenage years
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: in Iowa were no longer just thoughts. They were physically manifested.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: And the woman tied up next to him, Oh my, Roberts.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: He said he intended to keep me for two days,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: and then if I cooperated with him, he would bring
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: me back to town and let me off within a
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: block of my car. He told me he was going
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: to take me to Kenaya, to some cabins.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: He had blankets. It's what can I can I?
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: He had blankets, they looked like green navy type, and
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: he had sandwiches.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: In the car. Worst picnic ever. Okay, but in all seriousness,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: think about that for a second. He had no intention, obviously,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: of stopping for gas station snacks or a restaurant, which
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: is a whole lot of premeditation. That's a lot of premeditation.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: And I mean, yeah, that would be too risky with
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: a woman bound in shoelaces in the front seat, so okay,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: But you know, obviously he's prepared for this. He had
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: likely stood in the safeway Bay Gray, surrounded by the
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: smell of fresh bread in the Midwest, nice expectations of
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: his upbringing, and packed a lunch for kidnapping like that is.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know why that detail just like breaks me.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: I don't and I Betty made sure the bread was fresh.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: It was probably a good fucking sandwich. It was probably
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: really good sandwich. Because he's evil Hansen. This wasn't just food.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: It was a logistics strategy. He was sating his hunger
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: while he prepared to sate his darker. Fowler impulses.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: The cabin in Canai, is that what you say? Can?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: I can?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: I was a fantasy. Hansen didn't own a retreat there,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: but he needed Patty to believe he did. He needed
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: her to believe there was a destination, a place where
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: the rules were his and the world was gone.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: I don't like it. I don't like it at all.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: It's I don't like it, just horrifying. Now you're getting
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: a post all over again. Right, it's a very scary
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: thought that he was going to keeper for a few
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: days or you know, just for him, was it share?
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: Just yeah. Now, as they drove into the dark, Patty
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: realized that the man beside her wasn't just tense or imbalanced.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: He was a man who planned his crimes like he
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: planned his bakery shifts for his staff. And that is
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: a level of coldness that no psychiatric report can fully capture.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: Just treating it as a chore list packing things, and
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: the amount of thinking with this. This is also why
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: I believe he did a bunch of shit in the
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: Midwest before he ever came to Alaska. I'm just saying it,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: so oh high.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: Mindy, but you're never moving to Alaska ever, Okay, just
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: saying now, for mom has a problem with it, tell
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: her to call me, not the staff.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: But it's it's really it is haunted.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: It is I mean to realize the person has gone
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: through all of that preparedness.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: It's just yeah, yeah, it's not just like oh I
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: just sell somebody and then it took over me. No,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: this was no, this was very very very premmpty. Now,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: whether or not we know it was her he was targeting,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know. We don't know. I don't think it
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: was like.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: I think he just was looking for a woman to
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: warm up her car, come out.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, Like, you're right, you're hunting. You're usually not.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: Just like, I don't know shit about hunting.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: So I mean, if you're hunting for a deer and
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: maybe elk walks by, you're going to shoot the elk.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: Right like, you know you don't have elks. Either way,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: you're you're out hunting. You're out hunting, you know.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: So the atmosphere in the car shifted. Handsome wasn't just
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: driving to a destination. He was vibrating with a strange,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: distracted energy. Patty described him as a basket of distraction.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: He kept stopping the car, hovering between his violent urges
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: and a pathetic desire for some kind of romantic connection.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, he was just looking for love in all the
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: wrong places again, worst romantic picnic I don't like. Now.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: He asked her to make love to him, a phrase
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: that feels nauseating given the circumstances. And you know, when
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: we heard Cindy in our last episode talk about her experience,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: she also used the words made love, and I never
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: really connected to tell right now of whether or not
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: I thought she was just using it due to like
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: her age, and that's apparently furbia ge. Yeah, I'm like, oh,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: did he is that way? She said it that way,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: you know, So just put that together. So Patty's showing
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: incredible survival instincts, played along. She negotiated and told him
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: the car was too cramped and that they should wait,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: and she was managing his ego to keep herself alive. Brilliant,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, just brilliant. I mean it's a sample. Yeah,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: but what you got to lose that? I mean, you know,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you're in this for there is no
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: way nobody is thinking that you do that. You just
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: try it now.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: He eventually pulled into a rock pit along the highway,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: one of those jagged, desolate clearings used for road construction.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: He told Patty it would be better if she got
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: in the back seat so no one.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: Could see her. Now, this isn't going to make a
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: lot of sense for a few more episodes, but I
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: would like everybody to put a pin in that paragraph
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: right now. But he pulled into a rock pit or
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: a gravel pit, whatever you want to call it. Just
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: keep that in mind later and you'll be like, oh,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: I see. But then the game turned even more predatory.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: He reached over the seat, pulled at her blouse and
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: asked if he could rip her brawl off, which she
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: asked him not to. I'm sorry when she asked him
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: not to, he pivoted. He forced her to strip, untying
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: her hands just long enough for her to remove her
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: dress and bra before letting her put her coat back on. No.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: Is it rude to do that? Yes, but I'm glad
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: that he didn't end up ripping her shirt, her outfit,
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: and her brawl Okay, because I mean what he did
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: is not great. It's way are humiliating, it is, But
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: at least you didn't ruin her clothes because she might
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: need them later, might need them, you know. Like. So okay,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: but I called the ship monkey butt.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: You need to not watch this episode and you need
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: to go find something better to do.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: Carry on, monkey go soon, carry on, and I will
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: know if you watch, because I could look in the
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: background right now.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: His logic was if you're naked, you won't try and run,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: he told her. I don't know why he thought that
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: was I'm like, I don't know why I thought that,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: Because naked, I will run and I make you. I
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: read you a basketball picture. You looked great. Congrats. Yeah,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: I know I'm running. I don't I'm running and then
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: there's gravel on the ground. I'm running on the gravel too,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: like the girl. I mean, sorry, dude, I mean, I guess, well,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: you know, I guess maybe at the times, women were
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: much more they find it. I think you're instance over again.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit?
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: And it's not like she had something to hide like
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: he did with his little wanker, which we're going to
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: find out later. But it was a tactic of humiliation
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: and strategic vulnerability. He was stripping away her dignity to
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: ensure her compliance, and then, in perhaps the most skin
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: crawling moment of the entire ordeal, he reached back and
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: pulled her toward him and kissed her.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: Gross. Now it was the ultimate frog who would never
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: be a prince moment. He wanted the power of a kidnapper,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: but the validation of a lover. He wanted to be
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: feared and desired simultaneously, a hallmark of the deep seated
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: rejection he'd felt since high school. Sorry, that's just even
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: in the middle of this nightmare, Hanson.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: Tried to play the role of the provider. When Patty
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: mentioned she was out of cigarettes, he told her she
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: had been good and he promised to get her some.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: Now, this is the infantile side of his brain in
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: full view, right, Treating a kidnapped, bound and partially nude
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: woman like a child who had earned a treat for
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: good behavior. This left him as though he was the
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: one in control of the car, the gun, the shoelaces,
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: and even her nicotine, which I can't imagine how bad
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: she wanted in this time, because I shrew all right,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: I'd have been like, fine, if you give me cigarettes, fine, okay.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: He was the god of her world for these few hours,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: and he was relishing every second of it.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: When they reached the Portage Cafe, which was a popular
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: stop for travelers heading south, Hanson did something remarkably risky.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: He left Patty alone in the car to go inside,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: but before he stepped out, he revealed another weapon in
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: his arsenal. He reached under the front seat and pulled
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: out a long knife.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: Oh a long knife, you say, mm hmmm. Don't we
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: just care about one of those not too terribly long
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: ago that would actually happen in a couple days after this. Now,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: he didn't take it inside with him for protection. No,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: he took it because he was terrified that Patty might
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: find it and use it against him while he was
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: buying her cigarettes. It's a moment of pure paranoid calculation.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: Is not wrong. He knew exactly what he was, a
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: man who needed to keep his prey disarmed at all costs.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: And honestly, I think that was to terrify her a
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: little bit more that like, even if you get my gun,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: I have other things. But it also goes to show
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have an imbalance what the f he was
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: doing exactly.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: But there is a detail here that speaks to the
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: very core of Robert Hanson's soul. He bought her two
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: packs of Marlboroughs. A little over a decade later, during
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: his final confession, Hanson would talk at length about his
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: obsession with money. He was stingy to a fault. Here's
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: a stingy bastard. A trade he claimed to have inherited
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: from his domineering father. He lived by a strict philosophy,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: you don't spend money. He even used this to justify
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: why he stole chainsaws and equipment instead of buying them.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: So I think this is another bullshit excuse excited. I
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: think that's a bullshot. So when he buys Patty two
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: packs of cigarettes, he isn't being generous. He's making an investment. Okay.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: In his mind, those cigarettes were the fuel required to
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: keep his victim compliant and alife for the duration of
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: the game, and buying her two packs two bases means
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: to her that he's not planning to kill her right away,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: because you can't just smoke two packs of cigarettes in
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: like an hour. And you can, but you're gonna throw up,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: all right, and probably definitely in nineteen seventy one cigarettes.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that would have scared the shit out of
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: me that he bought two pounds.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, you don't want to die, but you also
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: don't want to be tortured for hours, days.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: But I got that kind of It's okay, But true
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: to his tingy nature, he didn't buy a carton. He
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: did provide just enough to maintain control, but not a pennymore.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean he's not wrong that I'd probably
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: wear it. Be like, oh yeah, if you want one,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: because you're super stressed out. Now. As the car pushed
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: further south, the facade of the polite baker began to crumble.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: Hansen started inquisition a grilling patty about where she lived
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: and who she knew. When her answers didn't satisfy his
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: need for total dominance, the manchild lashed out and slapped
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: her hard twice. What a romantic what I mean?
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this was the Christian Hansen inheritance coming to the surface,
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: the belief that any perceived defiance deserved a physical blow.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: But then as quickly as the violence arrived, he retreated
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: back into his twisted version of chivalry. He allowed her
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: to dress again boots, hose, underwear, and he and her coat,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: and he retied her hands, this time in the front.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: It was a small.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: Mercy designed to keep her dependent on his whim. He
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: is trying to screw with her psychologetic totally.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: It's like locking a dog on those you know, retractable leashes.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah you just yeh, no, dick. Now. They eventually pulled
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: off the Highway near Canai Lake. And this wasn't a cabin,
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: it was a side road that led to desolate open
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: clearing and in the sub zero Alaska night, with the
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: glacier fed lake nearby, the isolation was total. Like, ain't
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: nobody even driving around? You stroll, It's so dark, unbelievably dark. Oh,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: how terrifying.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: He was done driving, he hand tied her hands and
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: forced her to strip completely. He wasn't just looking for
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: sexual gratification. He was looking for a performance. He made
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: her climb into the front seat, the very seat where
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: he had held a gun to her head, and he
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: began to kiss and fondle her.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: Now he was trying to force a reality where this
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: wasn't an obtuction but a date. Obviously, it was a
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: delusion he needed to maintain to satisfy his own ego,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: because he's not a bad guy. It's not a bad guy,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: you got. He wanted to feel like the powerful man
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: who could command affection, even if that affection was by
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: with a twenty two caliber pistol and a pair of
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: leather shoelaces and two packs of cigarettes.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: And for anyone watching this that thinks that is how
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: a successful date goes, it is not.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, it is not.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: When Hanson pulled the car directly in front of the
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: Sunrise Inn, he wasn't hiding in the shadows anymore. He
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: parked right up against the front of the building, under
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: the glare of the motel lights.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: He had a script ready, He told Patty he was
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: going to tell the motel operator they were a couple
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: from Fairbanks traveling to Homer on business and just needed
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: a few hours of rest. Now this is the infantile
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: personality at work again. You know. Here he was playing
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: make believe, trying to force Patty to co star in
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: a facade of a normal professional life instead of the
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: horrific things that were actually happening.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Hanson's transition from polite traveler to cold blit a
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: killer happened in a heartbeat. Before stepping out of the car,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: he issued a chilling warning. He told Patty not to
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: move or attract attention because he could see her through
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: the motel's large front windows.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: He had his eyes on her, and then he made
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: it her burden. He told her he'd hate to have
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: to kill any innocent people because of her. It was
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: a classic psychological tactic, making a victim feel responsible for
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: the lives of others to ensure her silence, a thing
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: he carried with him until nineteen eighty three with Cindy Bowsen. Literally,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: the guy has a playbook. He has a playbook.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: Patty watched him prepare for the transaction in the lobby.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: He removed his glasses, the trademark of the meek baker
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: impulled on a net stocking cap, rolling the edges up.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: It was a crude attempt at a disguise, in a
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: way to separate Baker Bob from the man renting a
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: room with the kidnapped woman.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: Clearly, it's like Clark Kent. I mean that can't be.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: Was the guy wearing glasses?
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, him can be like the removal of eye glasses.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: He is trash, Spetty, he is traush trash. Now. The
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: most terrifying part of this stop was the presence of
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: the gun. Patty noticed it was never far from his hand,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: whether it was sitting on his lap, resting on the dashboard,
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: or tucked into his belt. The twenty two was a
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: constant third passenger. He even admitted to her that if
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: a police officer pulled them over, he wouldn't hesitate to
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: pull the trigger. D Hanson a policeman's life or the
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: lives of the people inside the Sunrise and were just
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: obstacles to his business trip fantasy. Remember her dad's a
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: state trooper.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: To him, a gun is like whoop be to some
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: degree and to be used at any moment.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: Hanson walked into the lobby and attempted to rent a
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: room using a fake story and a stolen live Patty
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: sat in the car watching him through the glass, knowing
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: that the man with the knit cap was one heart
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: beat away from turning a quiet motel lobby into a
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: crime scene. Can you imagine the stress of that and the.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: M M no, I can't. I can't at all. I
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: mean some people be like, well, why didn't she run?
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: I'm I mean yeah, because he could kill these people.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: I know that he was probably bluffing. If you know
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: anything about him, he's totally bluffing because he's a fucking pussy.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: But you just said the B word. I did say
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: the P word. He's a coward and everything, and I
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: hate this guy. He is what he is, a man? Okay,
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: Not when you just have to use a gun to
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: do all your work, all right, But no, I mean
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: he would never actually do it. He was cowered, but
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: I would do I would believe him though, Like that's
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: believing too. He literally just kidnapped you in a parking
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: lot where people were Yeah, and I would not believe him. Yeah,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: I mean he had the confidence, well the show of confidence.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: But yeah. Yeah. So let's see where were we here.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: Hansen's logistics were chillingly precise. He didn't just drag her inside. No,
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: he went to the cabin door, first opened it, and
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: then returned to the car to give her instructions get
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: out and act normal. It was a demand for her
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: to participate in her own kidn By forcing her to
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: walk into that room under her own power, he was
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: testing her spirit. He wanted to see if the threat
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: of the gun and the innocent people in the lobby
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: had truly broken her will. Once inside, the first thing
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: he did was command her to sit on the bed
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: and stay there. He was establishing the boundaries of his
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: temporary kingdom. Now in cabin number four, Patty was one
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: hundred and one miles away from the Nevada cafe where
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: the nightmare began. So bez very far like of course,
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: She's like, even if she ran off, where would she go?
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: She doesn't even know where she is. She was cold,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: she was stripped of her clothing, and she was trapped
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: in a tiny room with a man who was quirky
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: one moment moment and homicidal the next. She was now
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: in the most dangerous phase of the abduction, the phase
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: where the traveling stops and the deed begins. Hanson has
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: secured his perimeter, and now he was free to explore
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: the depths of his own twisted psyche. It is literally
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: in the Moud, yet like it's not even It's literally
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: the only place for miles around. Now, Hanson's attempt to
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: continue the facade of a normal hotel stay led to
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: a bizarre and unsettling sequence. He agreed to let Patty bathe,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: but when it was his turn, the meek baker mask
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: slipped into something much more voyeuristic. He went into the
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: bathroom and ran the water, creating the sound of a
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: bath splashing it around to mimic a man cleaning himself,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: but he never actually got in. Patty, sharp and ever watchful,
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: saw him through the crack in the door, and he
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: was peeking at her watching his property on the bed
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: to ensure she wasn't planning an escape or searching for
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: a weapon. He was a man who couldn't even wash
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: himself without the fear that his victim might reclaim her
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: agency careepy, I don't like it now. Eventually, the games
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: of splashing water ended and Hanson got into the bed.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: It was here, in the dim light of the cabin
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: that Patty's professional experience became her greatest investigative tool. When
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: she looked at Robert Hanson, she saw a physical marker
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: that no good guy reputation would or could explain away.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: You arrived back just in Titan Terry to tell us
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: why your favorite part of the whole story actually dae
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: of my favorite.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: I just built my glass of wine all over when
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: I got out by tripped in.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: It's okay.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: Books might have a little bit of wine splashed on them.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: Let's okay. I don't know how that came through. He
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: went into the bat.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: She noted that he was anatomically deformed. She described it
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: as being remarkably short, but a usually large in circumference,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: a funny shape that was unmistakable. This was a detail
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: that would eventually haunt Hansen in nineteen seventy one. It
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: was a sea Patty carried out of that room. In
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: years later, it would be the piece of evidence that
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: made it possible for him for him to claim he
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: was just or made it impossible for him to claim
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: he was just another face in the crowd.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: Why have they always got weird venuses? I don't know,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: it's always that. Yeah, yes, Betty, Yeah. Now, in Hanson's mind,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: this was likely a successful dates. He had provided a room,
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: a bath, and a bed. What a fucking gentleman. But
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: for Patty, every moment was a calculation of survival. She
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: was looking at a man who was so insecure he
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: had to fake taking a bath just to keep her
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: under his thumb. She saw the deformity not just as
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: a physical trait, but as a symbol of the twisted
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: nature of the man himself.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: Shut up, famous, I am sorry, that is perfect, good job.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: Baby, A little tear. Put shame anyone, anyone, but fuck
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: this guy. We can body shame.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry. I feel nothing for him but distaste
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: and yeah. After an hour of demanding more from Patty,
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: frustrated that she wasn't providing this specific psychological reaction, he craved.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: Because it's not a date, Sir Hanson's mood soured.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: He woke her up with a cold, dimissus command, get
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: up and get dressed. You are no longer of any
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: interest to me.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: Now this was the ultimate dehumanization. You know, he had
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: used her and now she was simply an object to
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: be discarded. But before he let her go, he started
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: the small talk, the kind of talk designed to leave
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: a permanent scar of fear on a victim's mind. He
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: wanted Patty to know that she wasn't his first and
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: that her survival was a whim of his mercy, which
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: I believe.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: Which, yeah, Patty's survival instincts were razor sharp. As they
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: sat in that cabin, she listened to him talk about.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: His past successes.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: He told me that he had done this before with
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: other girls and said, I don't understand it because all
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: the other girls had fought. He didn't say he killed
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: any girls, but that's the way he acted. I got
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: the impression from his talking that he had had a
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: girl out a week ago or the weekend before, and
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: he said she had really fought and that she was
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: a wild one. Something he said made me think that
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: he had been with the colored girl.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now this is only the second person on record
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: that we have, And yes, I think he's a bullshitter
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. But I don't think that
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: he's lying. But he's not totally lying. I think he's
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: embellishing about that. I mean, he is confident at shit,
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: but he'sbellishing. You know.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: He's maybe done two, but he's turning it into ten
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: and could be.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: But by now I feel like there are a lot
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: of I think other girls because just the confidence he
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: exudes the whole way isn't just something. He's not a
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: confident guy. He's not you know. So anyway, Hansen wasn't
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: just a kidnapper. He was a hunter who was starting
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: to compare the performance of his prey. His talk about
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: the girls who fought back wasn't just a bost It
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: was a warning. He knew the Alaskan bush could swallow
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: a person whole, leaving nothing but a cold trail that
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: the snow would eventually bury.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: By telling Patty about the others, he was ensuring that
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: even if he let her go, she would live forever.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: In the shadow of his power. He wanted her to
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: know that he was the prince of the wilderness, and
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: she was just one of the lucky ones who got
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: to see the sunrise. Now, I mean a lot of
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: people wonder when is he being honest? When is he isn't?
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: I feel like when he is this darkest part of himself,
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: his true self, is when he is telling the truth
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: to me. That's usually the case with people like this.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: You're like, no, that's definitely no, No, that's that they're
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: usually being a hundred percent of fucking honest with you,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: because that's them. Like, that's the part they never get
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: a show right, you know, so they do kind of
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: like get off being able to like put take off
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: all their masks and reveal their true face self. I
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: generally tend to believe them when they're in this grade mode.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: It's their ego that takes over too, I mean. Anyway,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: So they left the cabin around eleven am, but instead
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: of going to anchorage, Hansen turned the car and headed
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: deeper into the mountains towards Canai. The game shifted from
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: sexual dominance to cold blooded survival. He spoke another girl
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: he'd taken to a mountain cabin, a ghost story intended
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: to let Patty know that this terrain was his cemetery.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: As they climbed the road on the other side of
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: Canai Lake, they encountered a snowplow. For a moment, there
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: was a woman and a child, a glimpse of a
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: normal world, but Hanson simply put the gun in his lap,
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: turned around, and stopped am out. Later, he sat there,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: staring over a steep embankment in the trees and said,
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: I can't take you back now.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: You would tell on me. At that moment, Patty was
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: standing on the precipice. Hanson was weighing the effort of
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: a murder against the risk of a report. Patty's only
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: weapon was her voice. She promised him silence. She gave
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: him her bond. It was a desperate gamble, but it
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: actually worked. He untied her hands and turned the car
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: back towards the city.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: As they drove back, Hanson's behavior swung back into the
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: surreal and the inane. He stopped at the Portage Cafe
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: for pop in Hershey Bars, fueling up like a teenager
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: on a road trip. But at Frankie's Barn Cafe, the
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: mood turned dark again.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: He didn't just want her body, He wanted her fear,
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: He reached into her purse and intimate violation of her
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: private world, and found the names of her parents and
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: her son. He wrote them down. He looked her in
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: the eye and threatened her her family. He was marking
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: his territory, ensuring that even if she left his car,
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: he would still own her through terror. I don't like it.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: I don't like it. That is things that nightmares are
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: made of.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: Then came the final absurd Bob moment, as he dropped
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: her off near East thirteenth, just blocks from the Nevada Cafe.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: He sighed, and he told her.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: He wished they could have met under different circumstances.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: Sir, wow, Wow.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: It was a pathetic attempt to recast himself as a
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: tragic romantic instead of a man who had spent the
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: night holding a gun to her head and threatening her.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they met because of the circum stances he put
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: into an again at her.
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: Not like he tried to meet her and pick her
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: up somewhere and give her a pickup line.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: He stuck a gun to her. Now, Hanson drove away,
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: likely convinced he had successfully intimidated a working girl into silence.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: He forgot one thing, though, Patty wasn't just a girl
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: from the streets, she was a daughter. The moment the
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: door closed that Patty didn't hide, she didn't stay silent.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: She went to a friend's house and called the one
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: person she knew would believe her and have the power
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: to act. Her father, the state trooper, who is an
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: amazing dad given him kudos for that.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 2: The respectable Baker had just made the biggest mistake of
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: his life. He'd let a witness walk away, one who
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: had his physical signature, his car's rooted, and a father
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: who knew exactly how to hunt him back.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: So Sergeant Hughes took over the interview, and he didn't
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: want feelings, he wanted facts. He sat Patty down and
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: ran through a checklist that was designed to catch a
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: predator in the details. Patty, despite the trauma of the
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: previous twenty four hours, was a fortress of observation.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: She told Hughes that the man called himself Tom. She
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: described his uniform, a wool Pendleton style shirt and a
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: pocket watch. She noted he was a non smoker, a
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: detail that made his purchase of two packs of Marlboroughs
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: for her even more significant as a tool of manipulation.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: Then she hit on the physical tics that were the
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: true signature of Robert C.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: Hansen. When Cus asked about the man's voice, Patty didn't
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: just say he sounded nervous. She described a voice that cracked, stuttered,
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: and engulped. This was the same social anxiety that had
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: haunted Hanson since his school days in Iowa. Even with
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: a gun in his hand and a woman bound in
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: his car, he couldn't shake the physiological markers of his
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: own inadequacy. We heard his voice, Okay, his voice. You
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: would never forget that voice now.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: Hughes then steered the questioning toward the outdoors. When Patty
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: confirmed that Tom had talked about going hunting that weekend,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 2: the troopers knew they had their man. Robert Hansom wasn't
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: just a hunter, he was a world class archer. That
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: Tom and Patty's story was a mirror image of the
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: man already in their files for the Susan Heppert case.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: And the final question from Sergent Hughes was a practical one.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: Did he let you shut your car engine off? Now?
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: And an Alaskan winter, leaving a car running for hours
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: is a death sentence for the engine and the gas tank. Patty. Yes,
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: Patty confirmed she hadn't been allowed to turn it off,
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: But when she finally returned to the Nevada Cafe after
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: her ordeal, the engine was quiet. A friend had seen
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: the idling car, turned it off to save the gas
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: and left a note.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: That one small, mundane act of kindness was the only
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: reason Patty had a functioning vehicle to drive to her
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: friend's house. It was the bridge that allowed her to
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 2: get to a phone and call her father. Without them
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: turning a key, Patty might have been stranded in the
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: cold once again, could you imagine just that one little,
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: one little act, just one little.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: Thing, right, but like showing up in your cars out
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: of gas and you're like, yeah, like what now? The
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: police didn't make it easy for Patty. No, they presented
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: her with a six pack, not the kind of thing
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: of five black and white photos of men who all
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: shared Hanson's general features, horn room glasses, similar age, similar builds.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: Without a second of hesitation, she pointed directly at Robert C. Hanson,
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: they do all look quite alike. Hold on, I p
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: you go back for a second, names because I didn't
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: have time to look at I mean, I know which one.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: It is without a doubt, right, But no, they did
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: a good job fight. I mean they did a good
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: job because that was all manual back in the day.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: There wasn't a computer that did it for him. They
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: did a good job.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: Now, to be absolutely sure, they brought out the Big Book,
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: sixty color photos of known offenders and persons of interest. Again,
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: Patty flipped through the pages until she reached the very
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: last one. Her reaction was visceral. She didn't just point,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: she was adamant that.
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: Was the man. Now, in nineteen seventy one, this should
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: have been the end, right, it should have What more
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: do they freaking need? Right? The police had a positive
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: ID from a witness who had spent hours with the suspect,
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: survived in assault, and noted his distinct physical deformities. And
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: Patty Roberts knew exactly what the world thought of her profession,
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: and she didn't care. She looked the investigators in the
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: eye and delivered a prophecy that should have changed everything. Quote,
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: I'm here because that Robert Hansen guy is probably a premeditated,
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: cold blooded killer. She told them she wasn't guessing.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: She had sat in that car and listened to him
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: talk about the wild ones who fought back. She had
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: felt the coldness of a man who could buy her
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: she bars and threatened to murder a baby. In the
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: same hour, she saw the connection that the Buy the
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: Book detectives were missing. She was convinced he had already
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: killed and she explicitly linked him to the high profile
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: disc appearance in death of Beth van Zanten.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: Look at that doing the Cobs job. God so now.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: The most infuriating discovery for the troopers was Hansen's current
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: legal status. When he kidnapped Patty. He wasn't a clean citizen.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: He was already out on his own recognance for the
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: assault on the real estate secretary just a month earlier.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: Because some reguids he wasn't a danger to the public.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: You know, he tried to kidnap somebody with a gun,
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: but sure seor Jian Okay II.
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: The system had looked at the respectable Baker, the married
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: man with the business, and decided he wasn't a flight
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: risk or a danger to the community. Hello, he attacked someone,
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 2: What more clues do you need? But anyway, while he
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: was awaiting trial for one crime, he was already out
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: scouting for his next victim at the Nevada Club.
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: Right no deterrence, Patty knew that the police let him
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: slip through their fingers again. Her life and the lives
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: of other young women on the Fourth Avenue Strip were forfeit.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: Qull I believe he'll kill me too, she warned. She
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: recognized the butcher behind the Baker long before the rest
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: of Alaska did.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: Patty Roberts had done everything right. She had survived, she
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: had observed, and she had identified the monster. She had
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: given the police the motive and the link to a
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: murder case. But Robert Hansen still had his most successful
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: powerful weapon. His reputation is a hard working, stuttering, meek
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: member of the Anchorage business community. I'm sorry you're a baker,
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: for God's sake.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: Right right now. Next time on True Crime and Mind
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: Timee's Frozen Fear the Butcher Baker of Alaska series. The
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: identification was positive, the evidence was overwhelming. The predator had
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: a name, Robert C. Hansen. But in our next episode,
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: the investigation takes a turn that will leave you questioning
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: the very foundations of the justice system. We will witness
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: the moment the meek Baker is finally cornered by the troopers,
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: only to watch as he deploys his most effective weapon,
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: the mask of normalacy.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: Just go on the record, Alaska, I'm already questioning you. Sorry,
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: I don't think your just the system was working. Coming
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: up in episode three, we will focus on the interrogation,
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: where we will watch as Hanson uses his stutter in
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: his gentile persona to manipulate investigators, playing the part of
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: a misunderstood family man.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: No got your fucking be so shift. We'll go inside
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: the courtroom where Patti roberts brave testimony meets the cold
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: reality of nineteen seventy one legal biases. We'll discover how
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: a strategic plea deal, and a sympathetic psychiatric evaluation allowed
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 1: a man suspected of abduction and murder to walk with
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: a sentence that defies logic. And it does it. You
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: will think it was you will think it's a lie.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: It defies that much. You Look.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, when I saw the research and stuff, I
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: had to go check. I'm like, this can't be true.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: This is bullshit.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: Somewhere somewhere chat GPT gave us this or something.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: But no, it's true. It's true.
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: In the chilling moment, the cell door opens far too soon,
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: and Robert Hanson returns to the streets of Anchorage, not cured,
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 2: but evolved. The system didn't just fail, Patty Roberts. It
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 2: gave Robert Hanson a masterclass and how to get away
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 2: with murder. And yes, something is a miss in Alaska.
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, Betty, I'm coming with vodka next week. I like
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: to screw this.
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 2: And now that my office smells like wine and I'm
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: all sticky, I'm going straight for the vodka.
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give me a big old bottle of Veda
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: vodka or Sevida. I don't know how you say it,
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: but it's delicious Sevita. I don't know you're gonna need it.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: You're gonna need it everybody next.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 2: Week is.
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: It's yeah. And on Tuesday, well, you go with your
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: closing thoughts first, Terry.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: My closing thoughts is part of me wants to really
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: hate you, okay for wanting to do this case because
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: I knew the case. But you're absolutely right because the
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: fact that all this information hasn't been covered and isn't
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 2: widely out there is just is bad. Is what Alaska
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: let Robert Hansen get away with it is literally, to
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: the most part been swept under the rug.
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is disturbing to me.
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: And it makes me worry about what else in who
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: else has gotten a weight with shit?
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: You just wait, you just we have like several more
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: episodes ago and it does not get better. Friends, it
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: does not. It doesn't. You're like, how can it get worse?
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Yes, oh it gets worse, Lady and
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: Grace said, one episode was not enough for this. It's discussing. Yes,
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: Leady and Gray helps you have the first episode where
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: it was just the whole story and then I was like, yeah, so,
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: I mean I live in Texas. So Texas is a
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: really big death penalty state.
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: God, why didn't you do this shit in Texas because
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: they would have already fried his ass?
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: Right? Well, and that your closing thoughts. That's my closing thoughts. Okay, Well,
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: I just want to say Patty Roberts another put her
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 1: in the hero category. So far it's Cindy Paulson. Well
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: that would be ten years later, but whatever, She's on
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: the list first, Cindy officer Greg Baker, and Patty Roberts
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 1: and Susan Hepbert too, We'll put her there because she
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: was helpful too in identifying him in the first place.
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: So there's our list of good people in the story
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: of the heroes, and then the growing list. We will
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: see the people lists suck. Now. We like to believe
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: that the truth is a solid thing, that once it's spoken,
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: it becomes an unshakeable force. Right, Patty Roberts gave the
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 1: world the truth, all right. She didn't just survive it.
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 1: She brought back a blueprint of a monster and everything
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: that encompassed that. I can't think of a better witness.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 2: I never She wasn't intoxicated, she wasn't under the influence
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: of drugs.
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, she nailed it.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: She is what most officers would dream of.
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 1: For a witness. Yes, she gave the police the name,
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: she gave them the weapon. She even gave them the
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: warning that this was only the beginning. She stood in
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: that interrogation room and told them with the clarity of
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: someone who had seen death's face, that Robert Hansen was
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: a killer who had already tasted blood. And I believe her.
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: But in nineteen seventy one, the truth was competing with
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: a more comfortable lie. Right. The lie was that a
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: man who bakes bread for your children, and a man
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: who wins trophies for his skill with a bow, and
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 1: a man who stutters and shrinks and do him spine
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: a little meat bigger? Can't possibly be the same man
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: who ties knots with leather shoe laces in the dark.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: And in that moment of choice, the system flinched, and
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: we're going to really see how much it did not
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: want to see this being real.
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: It had blinders on in denial. Was definitely their river
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: in Egypt.
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: They were on it. Now. It's easy to look back
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: and point at the mistakes. Sure, okay, but I don't
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: think this is no like armchair quarterbacking. This is pretty
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: freaking obvious. Everybody's supposed to be a shit, right. But
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: the real tragedy of Patty Roberts isn't just what happened
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: to her in the car, and not just her, all
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: the people before after, even Cindy. It's the silence that followed.
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: It's the way the system took her courage and filed
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: it away in a drawer, allowing a predator to realize
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: something far more dangerous than his own dark urges. Because
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: he realized he wasn't visible. Now where would he have
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 1: gotten to that conclusion. Hansen learned that if he kept
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: his apron clean and his voice low, the world would
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: ignore the screams of the wilderness. He didn't just walk
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: away from Patty Roberts. He walked away with permission to
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: slip to keep hunting. We have to wonder how many
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: lives are lost, not because we don't know the truth,
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: but because we aren't brave enough to believe it. Because
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: that's what happened here. People were not brave enough to
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: believe Patty. That is a horrible thought as we close
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: out to get ready for bed. Yeah, how many more
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: because people aren't believing the truth? Thank you? Mm hmm,
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: thank you exactly. That's the.
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 2: That's the whole thing with missing people murdered. Oh well,
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: they deserved it. They did something they oh, don't even.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: Get me started on that. Don't even get me started. Right,
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: You were always like, oh, well, he kind of rest
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: did it. He was just a name. He's such a
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: good guy. Have you ever read a case ever. They're
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: all the same. They're all normal guys. They're most of them,
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, the majority, but the worst, the worst are
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: in your neighbors, neighborhood with lives and kids.
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: Doing whatever, because I would tell you I would rather
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 2: have dinner with a sex worker than with him or
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 2: any other respectable businessman at the end of the day.
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yep, you call problems in yeah, before.
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: We go if you like all of the rants and
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: the cursey words that you've heard tonight, next week is
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 2: going to be fired.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, this week is.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to eat a full meal before we
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: go live because I can't wait till after to have
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 2: dinner because it's a rough one. But be sure to
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: follow all of our socials and subscribe to our YouTube
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 2: channel because guess what, guys, it's free. Or if you're
• 2:07:29
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• 2:07:34
  Speaker 2: Or if you want to see all of the chaos
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: and get the story two weeks earlier.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: Come on over to our YouTube channel.
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, all of this helps us tremendously in getting our
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 2: channel out there.
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: That it does and now where We'll be back with
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: part three of our Frozen Fear the Butcher Baker of
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: Alaska series Tuesday at eight pm Eastern. That's right, you're
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: getting more of a next week. That's my year. On Tuesday,
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: someone did not listen to what they were told. Looks
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: like Lama's getting your look briantic, just god. But so
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 1: make sure if you haven't yet, hit the subscribe button
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• 2:08:24
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• 2:08:28
  Speaker 1: of the upcoming episodes of this for sure. You can
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: also join us tomorrow because listen, we talk about a
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 1: lot of heavy stuff on this channel, our YouTube channel,
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: all of the time, heavy heavy, heavy stuff. Well, tomorrow
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: you can unwind with us on our public show too
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: Much Internet. That's right, it's our first Friday of the
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: month and it's public. Normally this is a member's only show,
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: but first Friday is Funday, so you can join us
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: tomorrow night at nine pm staring it with myself, the
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: Lovely Amos, the Lovely Lady, and Gray where we just
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 1: sit back laugh at the funny shit on the Internet. Okay,
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: we don't have to get on angry rants or anything.
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: It's a good time because you have to be able
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: to laugh. So please join us for that tomorrow. Yeah, yea, yes,
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I won't be there with you guys.
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, but not okay, but no, we
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: really appreciate you guys all being here, but please do
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 2: me a favor besides just staying safe.
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: And if you see something, say something, do not.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: Let people's reputations and your perceived thoughts.
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: Determine who they really are.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: Because people hide it's a wolf in sheeps clothing, I
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: bet they do, so think about it. And if your
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: gut tells you something's off, I'm gonna tell you to
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: trust your gut.
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, very good, well done, well you guys, Thank
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: you so much. I'm looking forward to Tuesday for us
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: to talk more about this because unless it's Laura Owens,
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: I know I was gonna say that there was no
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: mother other thing her. Yeah, her reputation is correct, not
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: the reputation of her mind, though it's true. No, thank
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: you all for being with us tonight. Until next time,
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: go forth and be amazing. H