Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / How to make your wedding business more fun - Interview with Kimba Cooper

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How to make your wedding business more fun - Interview with Kimba Cooper · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

• 0:00
  Kimba: This has been something that has been quite difficult for me as
• 0:04
  somebody with a background in marketing to go around a, a wedding fair, where
• 0:07
  people are literally saying, come and buy from me and they are dreadful.
• 0:11
  They are so boring.
• 0:13
  And, and you're looking at all these stores thinking even
• 0:17
  the stall holders look bored.
• 0:20
  Like, why, why should I come and speak to you?
• 0:24
  Becca: I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business, marketing,
• 0:26
  expert, speaker, and blogger.
• 0:28
  And you are listening to the wedding pros who are ready to grow podcast.
• 0:32
  I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life
• 0:35
  examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
• 0:39
  If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
• 0:42
  and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business, doing what
• 0:46
  you love, then you're in the right.
• 0:48
  Let's get going with today's episode.
• 0:52
  Today's guest is someone that I love to work with.
• 0:54
  She's so much fun and always has a lot to teach you all, which is why I invite
• 0:58
  her back again and again, into my world.
• 1:00
  She's the queen of all things.
• 1:02
  Gamification, Kimber Cooper.
• 1:04
  Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:06
  Kimba: Oh, a lovely intro.
• 1:08
  Thank you so much.
• 1:08
  I love working with you too.
• 1:09
  I'm so glad to be back.
• 1:10
  I love working with your audiences.
• 1:13
  They are.
• 1:13
  Yeah.
• 1:14
  Just brilliant people and yeah, I can't, I'm so excited to be here.
• 1:16
  Well, Kimba
• 1:17
  Becca: everyone in my world absolutely loves you.
• 1:19
  And I'm sure people that don't know you yet will love you too.
• 1:21
  So why don't you start by just telling people who haven't come across you
• 1:24
  before, who you are and what you do.
• 1:28
  Kimba: So I do something called gamification and.
• 1:33
  Some of your audience probably won't know what that is.
• 1:35
  So I'm best starting off by telling them what that is.
• 1:38
  So if you ever played a game, if you've ever played a sport, so everything from
• 1:43
  tidlywinks to chess or cricket or conquers or mobile games, there are things built
• 1:49
  into those games that motivate you to keep playing, even when you don't want to.
• 1:53
  Even when it's hard, even when.
• 1:56
  It's boring to get to that next level or beat your opponent
• 1:58
  or whatever that might be.
• 2:00
  And what I do is I take those things that make games so compelling and
• 2:03
  put them into non-game settings so that you can get better results.
• 2:07
  So that's gamification and that's what I do.
• 2:09
  Becca: I have found it so interesting since you've been talking about
• 2:12
  gamification and I've listened to a couple of your sessions, you start seeing
• 2:16
  it absolutely everywhere in the world.
• 2:18
  You don't realize it's a thing.
• 2:19
  And then once you know that gamification is a thing, you
• 2:22
  start seeing it everywhere.
• 2:23
  Don't you do you, do you find that yourself?
• 2:26
  Oh,
• 2:26
  Kimba: my gosh.
• 2:27
  So it it's one of those things that people tend to say to me now, I know what it is.
• 2:31
  I didn't realize there was a word for it.
• 2:32
  I see it everywhere.
• 2:33
  Um, and it is everywhere.
• 2:34
  It's been around for 20 years and.
• 2:37
  You'll start seeing it in marketing.
• 2:39
  You'll start seeing it on the TV.
• 2:40
  You'll start seeing it in your apps.
• 2:42
  Pretty much every app you download nowadays will have some sort of
• 2:45
  gamification in it to get you to progress or complete something or take an action.
• 2:50
  Yeah, it's, it's literally everywhere.
• 2:52
  It's.
• 2:53
  So much fun
• 2:54
  Becca: and I have taken inspiration from you, Kimba, I'm always seeing what you're
• 2:57
  doing and getting inspired by your ideas.
• 3:00
  So I've gotta admit in my recent Pinterest challenge, I did a Pinterest prize board
• 3:04
  because I'd seen that you'd done a prize board before and everybody loves it.
• 3:08
  So thank you for inspiring me as well.
• 3:11
  Kimba: Oh, amazing.
• 3:12
  That's so good to hear.
• 3:13
  I, I wanna see it.
• 3:13
  You'll have to show me afterwards.
• 3:14
  Yeah, I
• 3:15
  Becca: definitely will.
• 3:16
  Now, before we go deep diving into gamification, I wanna talk to
• 3:20
  you about your upcoming wedding.
• 3:21
  Now, me and Kimber, like I said, we've crossed paths for
• 3:24
  the last couple of years now.
• 3:25
  Kimba started talking about planning her wedding way back in like 2019, 2020 to me.
• 3:31
  And it's finally coming up soon.
• 3:33
  Isn't it?
• 3:33
  Kimber.
• 3:34
  Yay
• 3:35
  Kimba: seven weeks today.
• 3:36
  Um, actually not today, but on Friday, but yeah, it's very, very soon.
• 3:40
  And it's, I've got to a point in the planning now where everything's
• 3:42
  starting to come into place.
• 3:44
  It's all starting to settle because there's a bit of a period with wedding
• 3:47
  planning, isn't there where it's like, I don't know how this is all gonna work, but
• 3:50
  now we're getting to the exciting part.
• 3:52
  Becca: I can't wait to see the pictures now because we love having potential.
• 3:57
  Couples and brides and grooms on my show.
• 3:59
  It's a really good opportunity for me to ask you about your wedding
• 4:02
  planning process, because I'm sure there's some tips that you've got
• 4:05
  and you've learnt through going through this process that can help
• 4:08
  the wedding pros who are listening.
• 4:09
  So is there anything that you've found as you've gone through your wedding
• 4:12
  planning journey, that's either frustrated you or has been really helpful to
• 4:16
  you, which would help the wedding pros as they're running their businesses?
• 4:21
  Kimba: I mean most of the wedding suppliers that I've come across,
• 4:25
  um, they don't have a good website.
• 4:27
  That's been quite difficult.
• 4:29
  So finding out prices or whatever has been difficult or
• 4:32
  their contact forms don't work.
• 4:33
  I found that quite a bit.
• 4:34
  So check your contact forms because just because it's there
• 4:37
  doesn't mean it necessarily works.
• 4:39
  Um, and letting people know.
• 4:42
  So we talked about this briefly beforehand, letting people know
• 4:46
  whether their data secured or not.
• 4:48
  Um, I might have made a mistake in thinking that a moon gate that
• 4:51
  I thought was secured was secured because we discussed the dates
• 4:54
  and it was all in the diary.
• 4:55
  And then I went to pay them for it and they told me the date had gone.
• 4:58
  So that was quite stressful.
• 5:00
  Um, so yeah, just let people know what your processes are.
• 5:03
  Right.
• 5:03
  I've actually found that with, um, hair and makeup people as well.
• 5:06
  Um, I I'm like, okay.
• 5:08
  So I feel like we're getting to the point where.
• 5:10
  I need to give you some money and it's almost like I'm having to
• 5:12
  force them to give me a quote, like it's come on, come on.
• 5:16
  You know, it's um, it would be much easier if they just
• 5:19
  offered that information straight
• 5:21
  Becca: away.
• 5:21
  In my experience, wedding professionals just hate selling.
• 5:24
  They're so scared of selling that they do everything but sell, but
• 5:28
  you are saying sell to me more.
• 5:30
  Tell me the processes and just take some money.
• 5:33
  Kimba: Just give me the information because I want, I want your services.
• 5:35
  I've come to the point.
• 5:36
  I've asked all my questions now.
• 5:37
  Now it's your time to go, right.
• 5:39
  Booking and it's, you know, if they don't want to they'll either
• 5:43
  say no or they'll just ignore you.
• 5:44
  So what harm is it in asking the question
• 5:47
  Becca: Administration seems to come up a lot as well.
• 5:49
  I spoke with Rachel about her wedding planning recently back in episode 10.
• 5:53
  And the thing that she found was how poor people's administration skills were when
• 5:57
  it came to the wedding businesses and how they didn't keep track of contracts.
• 6:01
  And they didn't seem to keep track of payment and that kind of thing.
• 6:03
  So being on top of your admin and asking for the sale is what you need to be doing.
• 6:08
  Yes Kimba, yeah.
• 6:10
  Kimba: A hundred percent.
• 6:10
  A hundred percent.
• 6:11
  Yeah.
• 6:12
  Becca: Amazing.
• 6:12
  Okay.
• 6:13
  Let's get back onto gamification.
• 6:14
  Otherwise we could talk about wedding planning all day, so
• 6:16
  we know what gamification is.
• 6:18
  Are you able to give me a few examples of where we would see
• 6:22
  gamification in our day to day life?
• 6:25
  Yeah.
• 6:26
  So
• 6:26
  Kimba: we've talked about this briefly before, but I don't think I've ever
• 6:28
  actually spoken to your audience about it.
• 6:30
  So I want to talk a little bit about wedding fairs.
• 6:34
  Yes.
• 6:35
  And how you can take some examples from gamification world and
• 6:39
  pop them into wedding fairs.
• 6:41
  So before I jump into that, I wanna talk to you about why, if
• 6:45
  this is okay, why gamification is so important for wedding experts?
• 6:49
  Wedding industry professionals.
• 6:51
  I did a, a quick Google search, cause I already knew this beforehand, but you
• 6:55
  might assume that games are something that attracts young men, right?
• 6:59
  That's the assumption, but there have been reports and this is in the UK.
• 7:04
  Um, that 50% of the people who say that they game regularly are women.
• 7:11
  Now, they might not say that they are gamers because they're playing things
• 7:15
  like Wordle or Farmville or whatever.
• 7:17
  So they might not think of themselves as a traditional
• 7:19
  gamer, but they are playing games.
• 7:21
  Every day, some of them, a lot of them most days, um, and it's higher
• 7:25
  in other countries, but even in the UK, that's a massive amount.
• 7:30
  And what, what was the demographics?
• 7:32
  It was something like 61% of the females who said that they
• 7:36
  played regularly were under 45.
• 7:39
  Now I'm gonna put a massive assumption out there that that's your target market.
• 7:42
  Is that?
• 7:43
  Yeah.
• 7:43
  Becca: Right.
• 7:44
  Generally, generally.
• 7:45
  Kimba: Yeah.
• 7:46
  So obviously I, I did a quick Google as well around, um, the average age of people
• 7:51
  that get married in the UK and in 2018, the average age, Opposite sex couples
• 7:57
  was 38.1 years for men or 35.8 years for women, which was a surprise to me.
• 8:02
  And then same sex couples.
• 8:03
  The average ages were 40.4% years.
• 8:07
  Um, and 36.9%, uh, years respectively.
• 8:10
  So under forties, basically, and under 40 are gamers in the UK.
• 8:15
  Um, That's just a thing.
• 8:17
  So if you are not using games in your marketing, you could be
• 8:21
  missing out on something that would be really, really useful for you.
• 8:26
  Um, in fact, I might as well ask you, I know you're supposed to be asking
• 8:29
  me the questions, but I might as well ask you, do you play any games?
• 8:32
  I.
• 8:33
  Becca: Actually do so.
• 8:34
  I really like Wordle I've been playing that, but not only do I
• 8:36
  play wordle now, every night I play Wordle, then cordal, then quordle, and
• 8:43
  then global like an absolute loser.
• 8:45
  But I, um, I love it.
• 8:46
  It, it really keeps my brain ticking over and I enjoy doing that.
• 8:49
  It's better for me than just scrolling Facebook.
• 8:52
  Kimba: Exactly.
• 8:53
  So if you can, if, if you can capture those people who are playing games anyway,
• 8:58
  by bringing them in with marketing.
• 9:00
  Gamification in your marketing then?
• 9:02
  Why not?
• 9:02
  So, um, onto the, the dreaded subject of wedding fairs, this has been something
• 9:08
  that has been quite difficult for me as somebody with a background in
• 9:12
  marketing to go around a wedding fair, where people are literally saying, come
• 9:16
  and buy from me and they are dreadful.
• 9:18
  They are so boring.
• 9:20
  And, and you are looking at all these stores thinking even
• 9:24
  the stall holders look bored.
• 9:27
  Like, why, why should I come and speak to you?
• 9:30
  So let me give you some helpful things that you might find helpful.
• 9:34
  And some of these are a little bit silly, but you know, It's what it
• 9:37
  is, take what you want from it.
• 9:39
  So the examples of things you might have seen in the past, if you've been
• 9:42
  to a Christmas fair, you will have seen guess the name of the Teddy.
• 9:46
  Okay.
• 9:46
  You will have seen that.
• 9:48
  And the idea behind this is you pay a quid and you guess the name of the
• 9:51
  Teddy and the stall holder will have course of put enough slots together to
• 9:56
  more than cover the cost of the Teddy.
• 9:58
  But a smart stall holder will also sell those teddies
• 10:01
  because then you can buy one.
• 10:03
  If you.
• 10:03
  If you don't wanna play, or if you don't win, but they're not doing the game to
• 10:08
  make money on the game, they're doing it to get you to their stall so that you'll
• 10:13
  look at other things and buy other things.
• 10:14
  Same with count the sweets.
• 10:16
  Now you might be thinking, well, how can I apply that to a wedding?
• 10:18
  I don't understand.
• 10:19
  That's not relevant to me.
• 10:20
  I get it.
• 10:22
  So how you'll have seen the most common one at wedding fairs is give us your
• 10:28
  email address for a chance to win a prize.
• 10:32
  Now people are gonna go, oh, I don't wanna give you my email
• 10:35
  address, because you're gonna spam me and I've not even met you yet.
• 10:38
  Oh, I'm not sure about this.
• 10:39
  So why not do something that's a bit more physical and they can give you their
• 10:43
  email address if they want to at the end.
• 10:45
  So the game that I came up with before I came on this podcast, I
• 10:49
  can't believe I'm actually sharing.
• 10:50
  This is hilarious.
• 10:51
  I was like, how can you come up with something a bit more physical?
• 10:53
  That's gonna attract a bit more attention.
• 10:56
  That you could do quite simply.
• 10:57
  So you know, those hoopla games that you get, where there's a
• 11:00
  board of pegs and you do a hoopla, let's say you sell wedding rings.
• 11:04
  You could decorate that.
• 11:06
  So that the pegs look like fingers and the hoopla looks like a wedding ring and you.
• 11:13
  Make a big board at the top that says, put a ring on it, or you make
• 11:16
  your own peg board, which looks like a hand sticking up and they have
• 11:19
  to get the ring on the ring finger.
• 11:22
  You could do something like that.
• 11:23
  It's a bit silly.
• 11:24
  It attracts attention to your stand and then to make sure it works because you've
• 11:28
  actually got to get people to play.
• 11:30
  And that's part of the problem is people are nervous.
• 11:33
  They're looking around.
• 11:33
  I don't know which stall I wanna go to get your friends or somebody, you
• 11:37
  know, to come around like once an hour.
• 11:40
  Loudly play this game because that will attract attention.
• 11:44
  People will then flock to your thing to watch them playing.
• 11:47
  Have they won, haven't they weren't like, it's a silly idea, but it's on brand for
• 11:52
  want of a better phrase with what you're selling, it's gonna attract attention
• 11:56
  and it's going to make people wanna flock to your store to see what you are doing.
• 12:01
  Becca: Yes.
• 12:01
  I absolutely love that if anyone has been in my world, anytime they will know
• 12:05
  that I also find wedding fairs incredibly boring, and I'm on a mission to make them
• 12:10
  more interesting and more interactive.
• 12:12
  And I always say you wanna be the stool that stands out from everyone else.
• 12:15
  And I can promise you if you have a giant hand where people.
• 12:18
  Throwing rings at it.
• 12:20
  You will be the person that stands out, but the point is people are having
• 12:23
  fun because I, I dunno if it's your experience Kimber, but I find that
• 12:27
  couples want to go to these wedding fairs and in their head, they think
• 12:30
  it's gonna be a really fun day out.
• 12:31
  But the reality is it's just a load of people boring, stood behind their
• 12:35
  stools, trying to sell them stuff.
• 12:37
  Whereas if you can make it an experience, you can make it fun then
• 12:41
  they will absolutely remember you.
• 12:42
  Now.
• 12:43
  I do make sure that all my wedding supplies are collecting email addresses.
• 12:46
  So how could they do that as part of the gamification?
• 12:50
  Kimba: Well, in that example, you could say they play the game and then
• 12:54
  in order to get their prize, they give you their email address or whatever.
• 12:57
  Um, the other example that I gave up with, because I was, I
• 13:02
  was so excited for this podcast.
• 13:04
  Right.
• 13:04
  So, um, you could.
• 13:06
  Steal, basically steel game ideas from other industries.
• 13:09
  So my friend came back from a pub once and said that, um, whenever anyone was
• 13:13
  buying drinks at the bar, they had a big spin the wheel behind the, um, counter.
• 13:17
  And they basically said, it's up to you if you wanna spin the wheel or
• 13:19
  not, it has some positive things on it.
• 13:21
  And some negatives.
• 13:22
  So some positives were things like you get your drinks for free.
• 13:25
  Or, um, some of the other things were like, uh, you have to buy the
• 13:29
  barman a drink, or you have to pay double for your drinks or you get a
• 13:33
  free pint glass, things like that.
• 13:34
  And I think he came back with a free pint glass.
• 13:36
  And he said that everybody was taking part in this game, even though there
• 13:39
  was potential risks and negative consequences, because it was so much fun.
• 13:44
  Now you could adapt that easily, um, to a wedding situation where you could give
• 13:49
  them away a bottle of Prosecco or a 10% discount on, on your services or whatever.
• 13:55
  And you can make a big deal out of it.
• 13:57
  You could do like big, you could play music whenever somebody's spinning it.
• 14:00
  You could, you know, Get some, um, is it called canned laughter or canned, like
• 14:05
  ooze and R's as it's going around anything to attract them over, but you could just
• 14:09
  get them to put their email address in and like, give, give me your email address.
• 14:12
  And then you can have a go on the spin the wheel, like really simple.
• 14:15
  Um, you can opt into whatever you want.
• 14:17
  Just give them obviously from a GDPR perspective, you need
• 14:20
  to give them that option.
• 14:21
  Um, but there's so many things you can do that.
• 14:23
  Aren't just put your email address into.
• 14:27
  Into this, um, clipboard and, and, and you might wanna bottle of Prosecco
• 14:31
  like, make it more interactive, make it more fun, make it bigger,
• 14:34
  make you stand out and yeah.
• 14:37
  Think about their, their experience.
• 14:39
  They're there for fun.
• 14:40
  Like make it fun.
• 14:41
  Becca: Spin the wheel.
• 14:42
  Sounds like so much fun.
• 14:43
  If anyone listening to this takes us up on this and makes a spin the wheel,
• 14:47
  please take a photo and tag both me and Kimber in it because I know it would make
• 14:52
  us so happy and we would love to see it.
• 14:53
  Kimba, I'm gonna let you.
• 14:55
  Secret that when I back in the day, when I used to do wedding fairs myself, there
• 14:59
  was this one time when I did actually run a game and people thought I was crazy.
• 15:03
  So I had these playing cards and I was basically, I had like, I think it was
• 15:07
  like queen Jack King or ACE won a prize.
• 15:11
  And I just had a whole line of playing cards and I just found them out and
• 15:14
  people could come and pick a card.
• 15:15
  And if they picked one of those things, they got like an instant win
• 15:18
  prize, a suite or a discount voucher.
• 15:21
  But honestly, the other stall holders, I think they looked at me like, I.
• 15:24
  Absolutely crazy, but I didn't care because more people were coming
• 15:28
  to my stand than anywhere else, because it was much more interesting.
• 15:32
  And obviously the chance of winning was quite low in a
• 15:35
  sense, cuz you know, there's 50.
• 15:37
  Cards or whatever.
• 15:37
  And there wasn't that many chances to win, but people just enjoyed taking part
• 15:41
  and I didn't charge them to take part.
• 15:42
  I just did that classic thing of saying, give me your email address.
• 15:46
  uh, so you can find out more about me and then you can take part.
• 15:49
  So, you know, I'm a secret gamification lover, and yeah.
• 15:52
  I've, I've paved the way everyone.
• 15:54
  So be brave and get out to those wedding shows and make a difference.
• 15:58
  Um, have you got any other tips regarding wedding shows Kimba
• 16:01
  or should we move to online?
• 16:04
  Kimba: Let's move.
• 16:04
  Let's move to online.
• 16:05
  I I'm, I could talk about gamification in all areas all day long, but
• 16:09
  I've got some other things, so let's yeah, let's move to online.
• 16:11
  Becca: Okay.
• 16:11
  So Instagram is a place where many wedding pros hang out all the time and we know
• 16:16
  that couples are hanging out there too.
• 16:18
  So how can they move these gamification ideas onto their Instagram profiles?
• 16:24
  Kimba: Oh my gosh.
• 16:24
  There's so much you could do.
• 16:25
  Okay.
• 16:26
  So, um, It ha Instagram and just social media in general.
• 16:32
  It's really hard to stand out.
• 16:34
  Um, it's really hard to stop the scroll things, keep changing all the time.
• 16:37
  And like we've already discussed the people that you are trying to
• 16:40
  attract are on their scrolling anyway.
• 16:42
  And they like playing games.
• 16:43
  So you could play all sorts of games.
• 16:46
  Um, so simple things that you could.
• 16:49
  Uh, Instagram's a great example is you could use the quiz function on stories
• 16:54
  or the polls function to educate your audience a bit about what you do,
• 16:58
  but also to play games with them.
• 16:59
  Um, and also to do market research.
• 17:01
  So you could use polls to be like, would you prefer, like, let's say you're a cake.
• 17:06
  Maker wedding cake maker.
• 17:07
  Um, this season's flavors are this one, this one, and this one, which one do
• 17:11
  you think we should bring out next?
• 17:13
  Um, you could do all sorts of things like that to get those people engaged
• 17:16
  and interested because if they voted for the one that you bring out,
• 17:20
  they're probably more likely to buy from you than if they didn't.
• 17:23
  There's so much fun you can do with that kind of stuff.
• 17:26
  Um, and you can play those games in your feed as well.
• 17:28
  It doesn't have, if you're not a stories person, it can be.
• 17:31
  In your feed as well.
• 17:32
  And it can be as simple as giving them multiple choice answers, things that
• 17:37
  will be as quick as possible, rather than expecting people to answer a really
• 17:41
  deep, meaningful question, give them a, B, C, D options, and let them just put
• 17:46
  an A, B, a C or a D into the comments.
• 17:49
  Anything to get your engagement up is gonna be good because then whatever
• 17:52
  platform you're on the algorithm is going to show more of your posts
• 17:56
  to those people, which means that when you are selling, they're more
• 17:58
  likely to see what you're selling.
• 18:00
  Becca: Okay, so it doesn't have to be complicated.
• 18:03
  They don't have to go out and buy a spin the wheel if they don't want to, they
• 18:05
  can just do something on their Instagram.
• 18:08
  So what's the one let's give everyone one simple thing that they could
• 18:12
  go out and do on their Instagram today to start getting this going.
• 18:16
  I
• 18:17
  Kimba: think maybe the polls is probably the easiest option because there's
• 18:22
  poll functions in every, every single.
• 18:26
  Social media platform, but in the stories, it's a good one.
• 18:29
  Um, that's probably the easiest.
• 18:31
  You can use it to have fun.
• 18:32
  You can use it for market research.
• 18:34
  I'm trying to think if there's an easier thing that you could
• 18:36
  do, um, to play games with them.
• 18:40
  Oh, fill in the blank.
• 18:41
  I love a fill in the blank.
• 18:43
  Oh my gosh.
• 18:44
  So, um, you could do something.
• 18:47
  I'm trying to think of a wedding example.
• 18:49
  Um, I'm looking forward to my wedding because, and then they have to use that,
• 18:55
  you know, the predictive text button in the middle of their phone, they have
• 18:58
  to complete the sentence with that.
• 18:59
  Something like that.
• 19:00
  It doesn't have to be my wedding.
• 19:01
  It could be, um, the thing I'm look like, I feel like this, about my wedding dress,
• 19:06
  because, and then like fill in the blank.
• 19:08
  So something like that, we've actually brought out, um, a bunch of templates.
• 19:12
  So if you're like, I, I'm not that creative in this area.
• 19:15
  We've brought out two sets of templates.
• 19:17
  So, um, one for feed posts are your normal posts and one for your stories.
• 19:22
  There's 30 templates in each they're in Canva and they contain, I think,
• 19:26
  I can't remember whether it's five or six different types of games and
• 19:28
  then different templates with each.
• 19:30
  And you can use those on your social media to get started.
• 19:33
  And they're very reasonable.
• 19:34
  It's 35 quid for both packs if people are
• 19:36
  Becca: interested.
• 19:37
  So how do people get those?
• 19:38
  Shall I just link to them in my show notes?
• 19:41
  . Yeah, that's probably the easiest way.
• 19:42
  Amazing.
• 19:42
  So if you're interested, if you don't have time to actually make
• 19:45
  these templates go and check out the templates that Kimber's already made
• 19:48
  and I'll link to them in my show notes.
• 19:50
  Now, Kimber people might be listening to this and thinking, well, this is
• 19:53
  great Becker and Kimber having so much fun talking about games, but
• 19:56
  how does this actually get me sales?
• 19:59
  How does this actually get me customers?
• 20:01
  So how does this gamification stuff move from just having fun and getting
• 20:05
  engagement into actually making money.
• 20:09
  Kimba: Um, so you, something you could do, and we were talking about
• 20:12
  collecting email addresses earlier is use gamification in your lead magnets.
• 20:18
  So quizzes are really popular in the minute and you could
• 20:21
  very easily create a quiz that attracts the right type of people.
• 20:25
  Um, and an idea that you could be, let's say that you have a wedding
• 20:29
  venue, you could create a quiz.
• 20:30
  That is what kind of wedding venue suits you.
• 20:33
  And then you email them recommendations, obviously,
• 20:36
  including your, your own at the end.
• 20:38
  And you could team up with other local venues that have a different
• 20:42
  style to you and promote them at the end of the quiz as well.
• 20:45
  You could even ask them to pay for the advertising space if
• 20:47
  you're getting enough traffic.
• 20:49
  But what that does is.
• 20:51
  It kind of filters out the people who would definitely be interested in being
• 20:53
  at your venue and those who wouldn't.
• 20:56
  And then you've got their email address and you can send them stuff that
• 20:59
  follows up and turns into a sale, but you could do this at the, for anything,
• 21:03
  it doesn't have to be a wedding venue.
• 21:04
  You could do it for what kind of wedding cake should you pick, which means, you
• 21:08
  know, that those people are already interested in having a wedding cake.
• 21:11
  You're just.
• 21:12
  Funneling them down.
• 21:13
  And the only options you give them are ones that you sell.
• 21:16
  what kind of flowers will work best, um, with your theme.
• 21:20
  There's so many things that you could do.
• 21:21
  And by doing that, you are gathering their email addresses.
• 21:24
  You nurture them in your emails, and then you sell to them.
• 21:28
  Or they might even buy from you straight away after the quiz, to be honest,
• 21:32
  Becca: amazing.
• 21:32
  So it's definitely a way to make sales.
• 21:34
  It's not just a way to have fun and it's definitely a way to start using and
• 21:37
  growing that email list, we talked earlier about how administration is a problem
• 21:42
  for quite a lot of wedding suppliers.
• 21:44
  Do you think there's any ways that people could gamify that part of the process?
• 21:48
  So once someone, a bride or a groom has actually booked with them.
• 21:52
  Do you think there's a way they could gamify or make that more fun for their
• 21:55
  couple and to make sure they're keeping their admin on track for themselves?
• 22:00
  Kimba: I that the problem that's been highlighted is that they're not
• 22:03
  keeping on track of it for themselves.
• 22:04
  So I would be tempted to gamify it for yourself.
• 22:07
  So I would be tempted.
• 22:09
  Now, one of my things that I don't like doing is emails answering
• 22:13
  emails is one of my big bug bears.
• 22:15
  Um, so, but it's gotta be done.
• 22:17
  Like you've got to do it.
• 22:18
  And so what I will do is I'll put a timer on for 10 minutes and I'll see how
• 22:23
  many emails I can answer in 10 minutes.
• 22:25
  And then the next time I will try and beat it.
• 22:28
  If you give yourself a, um, what are they called?
• 22:32
  So standard operating procedure.
• 22:34
  Like I will get back to people within 24 hours.
• 22:37
  Um, you don't have to say that externally.
• 22:39
  Just say it to yourself and try and work towards that.
• 22:42
  Try and beat, beat your own goal.
• 22:43
  Try and get to a point where, um, you are getting that on time, but you do
• 22:47
  that by saying, starting with like two days, I'm gonna get back in two days.
• 22:52
  And give yourself a reward for when you do that for every couple that responds,
• 22:55
  and then I'm going to get back to everyone within 24 hours, and then I'm gonna
• 22:58
  get back to everyone within 12 hours.
• 23:00
  The thing is by not getting back to people within a certain timeframe,
• 23:03
  they're just gonna go to somebody else, because they're gonna think you
• 23:06
  haven't got their email or that you're too busy or that you're not interested.
• 23:09
  So it really is important to do this.
• 23:11
  And if you're not the kind of person who reacts well to rewards.
• 23:14
  Give yourself the stick rather than the carrots and do the opposite.
• 23:18
  So if I don't do this, then X, Y, and Z will happen.
• 23:22
  So the, the best example I heard was somebody.
• 23:26
  Uh, giving their friend a check that was written to somebody that they hated.
• 23:31
  And if they didn't achieve X, Y, and Z, by this date, their friend had to send
• 23:35
  this check to this person that they hated.
• 23:38
  And it's so silly and it's so ridiculous, but it made that person reach that goal.
• 23:42
  So if there is something in your admin that you're like, gosh, I'm just not
• 23:45
  gonna, I'm just, I can't achieve it.
• 23:46
  I always procrastinate either.
• 23:48
  Give yourself a reward.
• 23:49
  Or a punishment if you do or don't achieve it.
• 23:53
  Becca: Yeah.
• 23:53
  That's so true.
• 23:54
  And you see that, don't you, I'm just thinking of an example, you know, when
• 23:56
  you go through the drive through at Costa or Starbucks or any of those
• 23:59
  coffee shops, if you look through the window often, you can see those boards
• 24:03
  that the staff have got behind them, about how long it is since you've given
• 24:06
  in your order to them delivering it.
• 24:08
  And they have to try and keep it in green.
• 24:10
  And if it goes to red, it means they're too slow.
• 24:12
  And I know that's probably a bit like the corporation getting at.
• 24:16
  But I do think if that was me, that would motivate me to try and
• 24:19
  get as many of those drinks served in green as I possibly could.
• 24:22
  So this stuff obviously works for those big corporations.
• 24:25
  We should be doing it for ourselves as well.
• 24:26
  Shouldn't we?
• 24:28
  Kimba: So that's an interesting thing that you've just brought up
• 24:29
  there actually is, um, consent.
• 24:32
  And motivation.
• 24:34
  So, um, some people say gamification is evil because you are manipulating people
• 24:39
  to do things that they don't wanna do.
• 24:40
  And some people say in corporate settings, like you've just said,
• 24:43
  um, that that is micromanaging.
• 24:45
  And if the staff didn't consent, that it's kind of evil because it's, um, in some
• 24:50
  settings they call it the electronic whip.
• 24:53
  You must go faster.
• 24:54
  You must achieve this on time, all that kind of stuff.
• 24:56
  Um, so if you are gonna play games with your audience, make sure
• 24:59
  that it's kind of by consent.
• 25:00
  So by putting out on your social media, they consent just by taking part.
• 25:04
  Um, but yeah, things like that.
• 25:05
  Internal gamification of staff, you have to be careful with.
• 25:09
  Um, but the other.
• 25:10
  Thing that you said was about motivation.
• 25:12
  So different people are motivated by different things.
• 25:14
  So like you said, for you, that would be super motivating for other
• 25:17
  people that might be demotivating, because they feel like they're
• 25:20
  never going to get to the green.
• 25:21
  So what's the point.
• 25:22
  Anyway, they might as well go as slow as possible.
• 25:24
  So consider what kinds of people you're trying to attract and what might motivate
• 25:29
  them before putting their games together.
• 25:31
  Yeah.
• 25:31
  That's
• 25:31
  Becca: definitely an interesting point.
• 25:32
  I listened to you do a whole video on the morality of gamification, which
• 25:36
  I found really interesting because you gave some examples and then
• 25:40
  you asked people, do they think it was morally right or morally wrong?
• 25:43
  Are you happy to share one of those examples with us now?
• 25:46
  So people can play that now.
• 25:48
  Kimba: Yes.
• 25:49
  So we called it evil or not evil and, um, obviously I played it like
• 25:54
  a game, so, um, I'm gonna try and discuss it without naming the company.
• 26:00
  Um, but it is available online if you wanted to Google it and
• 26:03
  figure it out for yourself.
• 26:03
  So.
• 26:04
  There is a taxi app, um, that you may or may not have heard of.
• 26:11
  And they have some software that they use.
• 26:15
  And you'll see this.
• 26:17
  Now, if you use this company, um, when you are in their taxi fares
• 26:21
  will come up before they finish that fair, and it will say, if you
• 26:26
  take this fair, you will reach.
• 26:28
  20 pounds, but then when they take that one, they'll, it'll say
• 26:33
  something like if you take this next fair, you will get to 25% of
• 26:36
  what you got yesterday or something.
• 26:37
  These are just examples.
• 26:39
  Now the thing is that these, these suggestions don't end, so it's a moving
• 26:46
  goal post it's endless, and it's called, uh, I think it's called a ludic loop.
• 26:50
  Um, so it's just constantly moving goalposts.
• 26:53
  And for some people super motivating and for some people, that's what they want.
• 26:59
  They want to reach those goals.
• 27:01
  They need that money because the kinds of people that this kind of company
• 27:05
  attracts to work for needs the money.
• 27:08
  So that's the question, is that therefore evil because they really need the money
• 27:13
  or is it not evil because it's motivating.
• 27:16
  And I guess the question is there around consent, did they
• 27:19
  consent to take part or not?
• 27:21
  Can they opt out of it?
• 27:22
  Um, that company does other things as well.
• 27:24
  So they give, um, badges for things like best customer service or, um,
• 27:31
  Most polite person, things like that.
• 27:34
  And I've read at least one case study of a person who worked for that company who
• 27:38
  was basically earning nothing but loved the job because they had all these badges.
• 27:43
  And again, is that evil?
• 27:45
  Or not evil it's yeah.
• 27:48
  And it, and it's not for me to decide.
• 27:50
  It's a, it's a fun thing for you to consider.
• 27:52
  Becca: Absolutely.
• 27:53
  So think for yourself, do you think that's evil or not evil now?
• 27:56
  Obviously we've gone deep into gamification there and for most of the
• 27:59
  wedding pros, the things they'll be doing, won't be quite as enhanced as
• 28:03
  that, but it is important for us too.
• 28:04
  Think about the morality, the motivation, all those things, the consent, uh,
• 28:08
  and make sure that what we're doing is fun for people, um, and not
• 28:11
  going to too far down those routes.
• 28:14
  So I'm hoping that everyone's gonna jump on their Instagram this afternoon and
• 28:18
  get one of these gamification posts.
• 28:21
  Out there.
• 28:21
  And if you do, please do tag myself, tag Kimber on it so that
• 28:25
  we can see what you're doing.
• 28:26
  I'm sure that we can both share them as well to show off what you're doing and
• 28:30
  have a think about those wedding shows.
• 28:32
  How could you make your stand at a wedding show?
• 28:35
  A little bit less boring and a little bit more exciting.
• 28:38
  Now, before we finish Kimber, there's one question I always end my podcast
• 28:42
  with, which is, is there anything in your business that you wish you'd known sooner?
• 28:49
  Kimba: I think, I think the biggest thing is that you can sell literally anything.
• 28:54
  So, um, you know, and some of your audience will know that I didn't
• 28:58
  always do gamification before this.
• 29:01
  I used to teach Instagram and.
• 29:05
  I I met, I came across so many businesses doing so many fascinating things
• 29:09
  that they were selling on Instagram, and I suddenly realized, oh my gosh,
• 29:12
  you can literally sell anything.
• 29:13
  There will be a market for it.
• 29:15
  You can go as niche as you like.
• 29:17
  I mean, in, in my spare time, I'm, I'm a semi-professional hula Hooper,
• 29:20
  and there are Facebook groups for hula hoops with over 20,000 people in them.
• 29:24
  People are probably thinking what you can go as niche as you want.
• 29:28
  And you'll be able to sell to people.
• 29:29
  I literally teach people how to make things into a game for a living like.
• 29:34
  You could do anything.
• 29:35
  It's amazing.
• 29:36
  Becca: Amazing.
• 29:37
  So be inspired.
• 29:38
  You don't need to follow the crowd and do what everyone else is doing.
• 29:41
  If there's something that you love and you wanna do, then absolutely go for it.
• 29:45
  Kimber.
• 29:46
  It's been a pleasure as always, if people wanna follow you or
• 29:48
  find out more about you, where's the best place for them to go.
• 29:51
  Kimba: We're @Kimbadigital everywhere.
• 29:53
  I spend most of my time on Instagram, on Facebook, but anywhere
• 29:56
  that you're on socials, you can probably find us at Kimber digital
• 29:59
  Becca: and a friend of Kimber's is a friend of mine.
• 30:01
  So go find Kimber @ kimbadigital and connect with her Kimba, I'm
• 30:05
  sure we'll speak again very soon.
• 30:06
  Thank you for coming and take care.
• 30:09
  Thank you.
• 30:10
  I really enjoy talking to Kimba, isn't she great?
• 30:12
  Great.
• 30:12
  I hope you've walked away from today's episode with loads of inspiration
• 30:15
  and ideas about how you can add gamification or just a bit more
• 30:18
  excitement into your wedding business.
• 30:21
  If you loved Kimber, there is other training sessions that Kimba has
• 30:23
  run for me inside of my wedding.
• 30:25
  Pro members lounge the wedding pro members lounge is the place for you to go.
• 30:28
  If you want high level training, great connections and more access
• 30:32
  to me, all the details on how to join are in the show notes.
• 30:35
  And you can go and watch further training and great inspiration from Kimber.
• 30:38
  I'll see you next.
• 30:44
  One thing I love about the wedding industry is the other amazing
• 30:47
  people you get to work with.
• 30:49
  If you want to meet like-minded wedding pros, just like you, then why
• 30:52
  not join my free Facebook community wedding pros who are ready to grow.
• 30:56
  Come meet some new connections, hang out with me and hopefully
• 31:00
  learn some new things too.
• 31:01
  Just search for us on Facebook.