Latest / The Morning Edition / One Nation’s newest donors, and why they want to remain secret

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One Nation’s newest donors, and why they want to remain secret · The Morning Edition

• 0:00
  S1: Virginia Giuffre helped vanquish a prince and a millionaire.
• 0:04
  S2: And I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced.
• 0:07
  S1: But one of her toughest battles was a very private one.
• 0:11
  S3: It was the worst thing that could have happened to her.
• 0:13
  S3: Her children were her life.
• 0:18
  S1: Virginia, a podcast from the newsrooms of the age, The
• 0:21
  S1: Sydney Morning Herald and WA today, out now.
• 0:29
  S4: Can you all sound like bulldozers, please? Girl.
• 0:37
  S5: Some of you may have seen a memorable video of
• 0:40
  S5: Australia's richest person, Gina Rinehart, celebrating Pauline Hanson at a
• 0:45
  S5: Bush summit last month.
• 0:47
  S4: Pauline, may I invite you to the stage quickly, please, Ben,
• 0:50
  S4: come and help me with the.
• 0:52
  S5: Rinehart had gifted the leader of One Nation an orange
• 0:55
  S5: toy bulldozer to symbolise. It seemed a hope that Hanson
• 0:59
  S5: will cut through bureaucracy.
• 1:01
  S4: We actually need a beautiful big, fat. Where is it?
• 1:06
  S4: It's coming. We need an orange bulldozer. Let's hear the noise, girl.
• 1:16
  S5: But Gina Rinehart is just one of several mega-rich donors
• 1:20
  S5: who are flocking to the far right political party. I'm
• 1:24
  S5: Samantha Zellinger Maurice, and you're listening to The Morning Edition
• 1:27
  S5: from The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald. Today, senior
• 1:30
  S5: reporter Sarah Danckert on the donations that are flooding to
• 1:34
  S5: One Nation ahead of the state election in Victoria and
• 1:38
  S5: what donors are expecting in return. Welcome, Sarah, back to
• 1:46
  S5: the podcast.
• 1:47
  S6: Thanks, Sam.
• 1:49
  S5: Now, you've written that ahead of the Victorian state election
• 1:52
  S5: in November, One Nation has been absolutely scooping up donations
• 1:56
  S5: from people who previously only donated to the Liberal Party.
• 2:00
  S5: So can you just give the listeners an idea of
• 2:03
  S5: who these people are and also what's driving this shift?
• 2:07
  S6: Yeah, it's it's, it's a really interesting shift. And it's
• 2:09
  S6: certainly a situation that's got, um, the state Liberal Party
• 2:13
  S6: in a bit of a flat panic. This was not a,
• 2:15
  S6: you know, a small aside, this is a very much
• 2:18
  S6: a trend and it's a trend you're seeing in the,
• 2:20
  S6: in the polling where you can see the increase of
• 2:23
  S6: support or proposed support that they've got. In this case,
• 2:27
  S6: Melbourne's private property developers are leading the charge. Now, Victoria
• 2:31
  S6: is unlike other states, Victoria doesn't ban or limit donations
• 2:36
  S6: by property developers, whereas they do in New South Wales.
• 2:39
  S6: So if you're listening in New South Wales, you might
• 2:41
  S6: find that a really unusual thing to hear. But in
• 2:45
  S6: the great state of Victoria, things are done a little
• 2:47
  S6: bit differently. So it's Melbourne's private property developers. And of course,
• 2:50
  S6: the city is synonymous with some big private property developers.
• 2:54
  S6: These are you're ultra wealthy types. Um, and they're promising
• 2:59
  S6: huge sums in return for advocacy. And on the other side,
• 3:02
  S6: there's also entrepreneurs and they're looking for changes to red tape, which,
• 3:07
  S6: you know, that's sort of what conservative politics often is
• 3:10
  S6: about removal of red tape, removal of green tape.
• 3:13
  S5: And specifically, these are people who in previous times would
• 3:16
  S5: have ordinarily donated to the Liberal Party. Is that right?
• 3:19
  S6: Yeah, absolutely. So these are rusted on liberal donors. These
• 3:22
  S6: are people who, in the past, the Liberal Party could
• 3:25
  S6: rely on for significant donations. These were sort of their
• 3:29
  S6: true blue bloods as they as they like to be known. Interestingly,
• 3:34
  S6: not all are giving up their memberships to the Liberal Party,
• 3:37
  S6: and some are also splitting their donations. So some are saying, well,
• 3:41
  S6: you know, if I used to give X amount, I
• 3:43
  S6: will split that and I'll give a little bit to
• 3:45
  S6: the Liberals and I'll give some to one nation because
• 3:49
  S6: I want two irons in the fire. I want double
• 3:52
  S6: the advocacy, double the fun.
• 3:54
  S5: Ah, you're right, double the fun. Okay. You might call
• 3:56
  S5: it that. And so I guess give. Give us some
• 3:59
  S5: names here. Like, who are we talking about and what
• 4:01
  S5: is driving their move from being, you know, rusted on
• 4:04
  S5: liberal supporters. And again, like you say, they may still
• 4:07
  S5: be supporting Liberal Party, but they're you know, they used
• 4:09
  S5: to support the Liberal Party with their donations, and now
• 4:12
  S5: they're sort of splitting some or all to one nation.
• 4:15
  S5: So who are they and why are they doing it?
• 4:17
  S6: Yeah. So on a state level, we haven't really outed
• 4:21
  S6: these donors yet. And we can get to sort of,
• 4:23
  S6: I guess, why. One of the reasons why is that
• 4:26
  S6: there's still a level of shame of One Nation donating shame.
• 4:31
  S6: There's also people don't want to be questioned about their donation.
• 4:35
  S6: So a long time ago, 2016, it's probably not that
• 4:39
  S6: long for many people. Um, but 2016, in the federal election,
• 4:43
  S6: a Melbourne property developer called Bill McNee made a made
• 4:46
  S6: a donation. He actually donated a plane long before Jeana
• 4:48
  S6: donated a plane to the party. It's not a new idea, Jeana.
• 4:51
  S6: So Bill McNee donated a plane and some other cash,
• 4:54
  S6: and there were scores of articles written about Bill McNair's donation,
• 4:58
  S6: and he was asked everywhere he went about his donation.
• 5:02
  S6: And Bill McNair, of course, is one of our most
• 5:04
  S6: reclusive property developers. You know, he lives in a $50
• 5:07
  S6: million mansion in Toorak, and I'm sure a lot of
• 5:10
  S6: people around the country would go, bill who? Um, and
• 5:13
  S6: until he'd made his One Nation donation, he was largely unknown,
• 5:17
  S6: despite being incredibly wealthy and successful. So some of the
• 5:20
  S6: names aren't coming out. We do know that federally. Of course,
• 5:24
  S6: we've seen Gina Rinehart of Hancock Prospecting and of course,
• 5:28
  S6: stockbroker Angus Aitken. He's a sydneysider. Um, and he is
• 5:33
  S6: previously donated to the Liberals as well, but he's also
• 5:36
  S6: donated to Advance Australia. And he has a view on,
• 5:40
  S6: I guess, very much a business view in donating. It
• 5:44
  S6: is about red tape. It is about work from home, um,
• 5:48
  S6: for people he knows and other people in that group federally,
• 5:52
  S6: some of the changes to youth wages have really upset
• 5:55
  S6: some business owners. So that's where previously you could pay
• 5:58
  S6: 16 year old a lot less than than a 22
• 6:00
  S6: year old. Um, and, and some people are quite upset
• 6:04
  S6: about those changes there. So it seems like it's small beer,
• 6:07
  S6: but you can actually see this bleeding into some of
• 6:10
  S6: the national policy positions already. You can see it shaping
• 6:13
  S6: up as to what one nation will be in Victoria.
• 6:16
  S6: And it's going to be not just a party based
• 6:19
  S6: on migration and migration policy, but a party based on
• 6:23
  S6: very what would be, quote unquote, traditional liberal values or
• 6:28
  S6: conservative liberal values, which is, you know, lowering the amount
• 6:32
  S6: of regulation. Uh, you know, and that's what they say,
• 6:35
  S6: the red tape, green tape, that's the, that's the sort
• 6:38
  S6: of main push.
• 6:40
  S5: And I've got to ask you something that you mentioned earlier,
• 6:43
  S5: which is so interesting because you mentioned shame there in
• 6:46
  S5: terms of people perhaps not wanting to disclose that they've
• 6:49
  S5: donated to One Nation out of shame. Now, presumably you've
• 6:52
  S5: spoken to some of these state based property developers or
• 6:55
  S5: the people around them. So why did they say they donated?
• 6:58
  S6: Because they want so specifically they want the taxes changed.
• 7:02
  S6: So their main interest is a lot of these property taxes.
• 7:05
  S6: The Victorian government's been pretty cash strapped, been looking to
• 7:08
  S6: raise money and it sort of found a tax for everything.
• 7:11
  S6: Um and particularly vacant property taxes. And they want more advocacy,
• 7:18
  S6: a greater amount of advocacy on these on these what
• 7:20
  S6: we would see as a niche topic. But for these people,
• 7:23
  S6: if they spend their business buying up vacant property sites
• 7:27
  S6: to do developments in the two years they're holding that site,
• 7:30
  S6: they're now getting charged taxes. And they feel as though
• 7:33
  S6: and this has got to do with as much as
• 7:36
  S6: it's got to do with with opposing the incumbent state government,
• 7:39
  S6: the Labor Party's policy on taxes, it's actually to do
• 7:43
  S6: with the fissure within the Liberal Party, because you've got
• 7:45
  S6: to remember, these are liberal donors and they're moving to
• 7:47
  S6: one nation. So in Victoria, We've got a more moderate
• 7:51
  S6: leadership for the Liberal Party. Jess Wilson is much more
• 7:54
  S6: progressive on a lot of issues and sort of much
• 7:57
  S6: more if it doesn't need fixing. I'm not really going
• 8:00
  S6: to focus on approach. And a great example is the
• 8:04
  S6: work from home policy.
• 8:05
  S5: And so can you just break it down just briefly
• 8:08
  S5: for those who've forgotten, you know, specifically what the working
• 8:10
  S5: from home policy is that that some are so concerned about.
• 8:14
  S6: Yeah. So in the state of Victoria, they plan to
• 8:16
  S6: mandate working from home two days a week. This will shift, um,
• 8:21
  S6: all sorts of companies into a situation where staff will
• 8:25
  S6: be able to say, well, as a minimum, I can
• 8:27
  S6: work from two days a week from home. And there's
• 8:31
  S6: a whole lot of business owners in Victoria that are really,
• 8:34
  S6: really upset about the work from home policy. And then
• 8:38
  S6: you've got a Liberal Party that has got that much
• 8:40
  S6: lower on their to do list because they're worried about
• 8:45
  S6: losing votes if they say they oppose the work from
• 8:48
  S6: home policy because it's really, really popular in some areas
• 8:52
  S6: and it's particularly popular with working women. And that's a
• 8:55
  S6: great example of where the shame comes from. Some of
• 8:57
  S6: the shame is not necessarily associated with one nation's larger policies,
• 9:01
  S6: of course, which they're synonymous for are i.e. monoculture or migration.
• 9:07
  S6: Some of it is the bosses don't want their workers
• 9:10
  S6: to know yet unless they're successful, that they've had any
• 9:15
  S6: role in funding the the dismantling of this work from
• 9:19
  S6: home policy. So my shame it's to do with not
• 9:23
  S6: wanting to be associated with as much as the what
• 9:27
  S6: they're advocating for, because it is pretty contentious issues. But also,
• 9:31
  S6: I think the Bill McNee example is a great example.
• 9:35
  S6: You know, Bill did donate. And, you know, in the end,
• 9:38
  S6: he said that he would never donate to the party
• 9:40
  S6: again simply because of the media attention he received. But,
• 9:43
  S6: you know, people don't want lists written about everybody who's
• 9:46
  S6: donated to One nation. Just like, you know, people cringe
• 9:49
  S6: when we do up lists of who donates to the
• 9:51
  S6: mayor and stuff like that.
• 9:54
  S5: But this brings me to the next question, because all
• 9:56
  S5: this influx of cash, though, that One Nation is getting,
• 9:58
  S5: is raising questions about how and where One Nation is
• 10:02
  S5: receiving its donations for the state campaign. So tell us
• 10:05
  S5: a bit about that.
• 10:06
  S6: So so far, they've only received two donations, at least
• 10:10
  S6: according to the live database. So they've received two donations
• 10:15
  S6: in the last 6 to 12 months. It's $6,239. It's
• 10:20
  S6: not a huge amount of money. But the thing is,
• 10:23
  S6: is that it's a very complex, dangerously complex situation. And
• 10:29
  S6: that's because there's been a bit of an issue with
• 10:31
  S6: Victoria's donation laws. So we had a situation where the
• 10:38
  S6: state government tried to bring in um caps, and those
• 10:43
  S6: caps were challenged, and that went all the way to
• 10:45
  S6: the High Court, and that placed the State of Victoria
• 10:48
  S6: into a basically a state of abeyance in terms of
• 10:51
  S6: donation disclosures.
• 10:53
  S7: Dodgy rigged laws. They would rather have no rules at all.
• 10:58
  S7: They couldn't organise a chook raffle in a pub. The
• 11:00
  S7: major parties trading blows over the rush on new rules
• 11:04
  S7: around political donations required after the High Court threw out
• 11:09
  S7: Labor's last version because it wasn't fair. Would it be
• 11:13
  S7: concerned for for One Nation if donations are capped?
• 11:16
  S8: No, not at all.
• 11:17
  S6: There'll be a queue of donations waiting to be declared,
• 11:20
  S6: because one minute they were saying the cap was this amount,
• 11:23
  S6: the next minute the cap was going to be that amount.
• 11:25
  S6: So people have been holding off on actually making the
• 11:29
  S6: donations until there was clarity around this figure. There is
• 11:35
  S6: now clarity, so to speak. Ah, you know, the government's
• 11:39
  S6: managed to reach a deal where they'll be able to
• 11:42
  S6: cap donations at something incredibly low, like $5,030. But there's
• 11:47
  S6: still a huge amount of problems with how, as you
• 11:51
  S6: pointed out, how it's going to be disclosed. There's been
• 11:53
  S6: a lot of ambiguity. And then there's also been strange conduct.
• 11:57
  S6: So we saw Chip Le Grand reported for the age, um,
• 12:01
  S6: that the PM by election candidate Darren Hercus in a
• 12:04
  S6: by election down in one of our key seats. Chip
• 12:07
  S6: reported that Darren was instructed to use his personal bank
• 12:11
  S6: account to receive donations. Now, the party strongly denied that
• 12:15
  S6: those allegations because that's illegal. And so we don't have
• 12:19
  S6: a huge amount of clarity as to whether they have
• 12:21
  S6: a state campaign account. And that would be where the
• 12:23
  S6: money would be received through there. Um, we've got candidates
• 12:27
  S6: saying that they would also be able to bring in
• 12:30
  S6: their own donations. And so there's a lot of ambiguity
• 12:36
  S6: over this. And without being unkind to One Nation, it's
• 12:39
  S6: a party that has had a history and issues with
• 12:43
  S6: keeping up with its disclosures. I think, you know, we've
• 12:47
  S6: seen more recently that it's been trying to ensure that
• 12:50
  S6: all of its paperwork is very much up to date.
• 12:52
  S6: It seems to be sensitive to that allegation. Um, but,
• 12:56
  S6: you know, we've been speaking to people throughout the week, um,
• 13:01
  S6: who know a lot about campaign financing and even they
• 13:05
  S6: concede that it's a really, uh, it's a, it's a
• 13:08
  S6: tough area to navigate at the moment with this high
• 13:11
  S6: court challenge and changes to the caps.
• 13:16
  S5: After the break.
• 13:17
  S6: They plan to announce all of their 100 candidates on
• 13:20
  S6: the same day as an idea that will bamboozle the media.
• 13:23
  S6: I also would say that I and many other journalists
• 13:26
  S6: accept the challenge.
• 13:32
  S1: Virginia Giuffre helped vanquish a prince and a millionaire.
• 13:36
  S2: And I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced.
• 13:39
  S1: But one of her toughest battles was a very private one.
• 13:43
  S3: It was the worst thing that could have happened to her.
• 13:45
  S3: Her children were her life.
• 13:49
  S1: Virginia, a podcast from the newsrooms of the age, The
• 13:53
  S1: Sydney Morning Herald and WA today, out now.
• 14:00
  S5: And you've said that the donation situation in Victoria is
• 14:03
  S5: dangerously complex. So how is this dangerous?
• 14:06
  S6: Well, it's dangerously complex because if you don't declare your
• 14:10
  S6: your your donations properly. No, I don't mean necessarily the donors.
• 14:15
  S6: It's the onus is on the party, though I'm sure
• 14:18
  S6: that there's a certain amount of onus on the donors
• 14:20
  S6: as well. But, you know, the party has to declare
• 14:24
  S6: the reason it becomes dangerous is that not declaring some
• 14:28
  S6: of these donations can end up being an actual criminal offence.
• 14:31
  S6: And so that's why it's dangerous, you know, and certainly
• 14:36
  S6: we've seen this issue with the party before, and it's
• 14:38
  S6: an issue all parties face. It's an issue that the
• 14:41
  S6: from from the smallest independent to, you know, to the
• 14:45
  S6: the mighty ALP, with its union backing and gifts of
• 14:50
  S6: services from all sorts of law firms, that it's it's
• 14:53
  S6: dangerous because you've got to ensure that it's correct because
• 14:56
  S6: if you don't, it's a criminal offence. And then, of course,
• 14:58
  S6: there's the reputation hit that comes from that. And that
• 15:03
  S6: would be dangerous for one nation, because I think One
• 15:05
  S6: Nation is trying to put its best foot forward for
• 15:08
  S6: for this upcoming state election.
• 15:10
  S5: Yeah. And presumably if you can't manage your own party's finances,
• 15:14
  S5: how can you be expected to manage the country's.
• 15:16
  S6: Exactly. And if you're lying, and if you're caught lying
• 15:18
  S6: about that, or call it caught making a mistake about that,
• 15:21
  S6: what else are you going to make mistakes on? So it's,
• 15:23
  S6: it's a, it's a reputation issue as well as it being,
• 15:27
  S6: you know, a technical breach of the law that is
• 15:29
  S6: very serious.
• 15:30
  S5: Okay. But you have spoken to one nation's only current
• 15:33
  S5: Victorian representative. So what did she tell you about how
• 15:37
  S5: the party is handling donations.
• 15:39
  S6: So she was really upbeat actually, despite not being endorsed.
• 15:42
  S6: I've never spoken to somebody who was so positive despite being, uh,
• 15:47
  S6: what was it, 4 or 5 months out from election
• 15:49
  S6: and not being endorsed? Um, so she's told me she
• 15:52
  S6: was receiving a lot of support. She's got donors lining
• 15:54
  S6: up to give to her campaign. The other thing she's
• 15:57
  S6: said is that those donations are in abeyance until she's
• 16:00
  S6: actually elected. She said that in the past that the
• 16:04
  S6: party had always used a model where candidates were self-funded.
• 16:08
  S6: So in the past they've used that model. And Ricky
• 16:10
  S6: Lee was saying that they'll be moving to a model
• 16:12
  S6: where it's sort of a mix, where it's donations and
• 16:17
  S6: some self-funding or just donations. And that is an interesting
• 16:21
  S6: situation as well, because if that model is applied throughout
• 16:25
  S6: the rest of the country, it starts to become an
• 16:28
  S6: arms race for who can bring in the largest donors
• 16:31
  S6: rather than it being necessarily, um, the best man wins
• 16:35
  S6: or the best person wins. Now, in America, that's really common.
• 16:39
  S6: Of course, we all know that. You know, Donald Trump
• 16:42
  S6: is fabulous at raising money. So it's not that uncommon.
• 16:46
  S6: But it does create a situation where you've got people
• 16:50
  S6: lining up for safer seats, safer positions. This is a
• 16:53
  S6: party in the state of Victoria where no one's been endorsed,
• 16:56
  S6: and they want to run 100 candidates in November. So
• 17:00
  S6: there's going to be the upper house seats are going
• 17:02
  S6: to be seen to be much safer. Ricky Lee is
• 17:05
  S6: in one of those. But the question is, are there
• 17:07
  S6: other people in Bendigo? Are there other people from that
• 17:11
  S6: region who can bring in more donors might be more popular,
• 17:15
  S6: and therefore Ricky Lee's overlooked. Now, I haven't seen any
• 17:18
  S6: evidence that that's going to happen, but certainly it's striking
• 17:22
  S6: to sit to talk to a sitting member of Parliament
• 17:25
  S6: in July when the elections in November, and they're saying, well,
• 17:28
  S6: I'm not endorsed. I hope to be, but I'm not yet.
• 17:31
  S5: So now, is that is that an unusual situation? Because
• 17:35
  S5: that's that's strikes me as possibly unusual only four months
• 17:38
  S5: out before an election.
• 17:39
  S6: It is unusual for it to be this quantum. So
• 17:41
  S6: I think the Liberals have got some people that they've
• 17:43
  S6: still got to endorse for different seats. But there's also
• 17:47
  S6: with One Nation, it's 100 people who haven't been endorsed.
• 17:49
  S6: They want to run 100 candidates. I understand that they
• 17:53
  S6: plan to. This is what my sources have told me,
• 17:56
  S6: that they plan to announce all of their 100 candidates
• 17:59
  S6: on the same day as an idea that will bamboozle
• 18:02
  S6: the media. Um.
• 18:04
  S5: Bamboozle us? How?
• 18:06
  S6: Oh, there'll be so many names to go through. We
• 18:08
  S6: won't be able to find all the bad things about
• 18:10
  S6: them quickly enough.
• 18:11
  S5: Right. Okay.
• 18:12
  S6: Not that. Not that there's going to be bad things
• 18:14
  S6: to find about them because they've been thoroughly vetted. Um,
• 18:17
  S6: but yeah, that was the sort of the vibe. I
• 18:20
  S6: also would say that, um, I and many other journalists
• 18:24
  S6: accept the challenge. Yeah. Um.
• 18:27
  S5: You're built for this. Sarah. This is.
• 18:28
  S6: Yeah. And I can feel the spreadsheet getting set up already. Yeah.
• 18:32
  S5: That's right. And Sarah, just to wrap up, I mean,
• 18:34
  S5: if there is, of course, as you've written, this influx
• 18:37
  S5: of donations to One Nation, is there any way for
• 18:39
  S5: the public to find out where these donations have come
• 18:43
  S5: from before they cast their vote? Or is this something
• 18:45
  S5: that's only made public after an election?
• 18:48
  S6: Yeah. So this is the live. There's this live dashboard
• 18:51
  S6: in Victoria where ostensibly, you should be able to see
• 18:54
  S6: your donations so that people can get the, the transparency
• 18:58
  S6: that you rightly point out is, is what people want.
• 19:02
  S6: And also like, I guess a true democratic value, right?
• 19:05
  S6: You know, transparency is key to democracy. Um, but as
• 19:10
  S6: I said, the Victoria donation laws have been a bit wonky, um,
• 19:14
  S6: up to the high Court back again. So there's a
• 19:18
  S6: lot of doubt about whether and when those things will
• 19:20
  S6: get done and how much of it will get shown
• 19:23
  S6: before the election. You don't have to declare the donation
• 19:27
  S6: in the instant it's made. I think there's up to
• 19:30
  S6: three weeks. So if people make their donations in November.
• 19:33
  S6: You're not going to find out about it afterwards. And
• 19:37
  S6: beyond that, there's also huge ways where donations can be structured.
• 19:42
  S6: They can be funneled through different ways. It's not what
• 19:46
  S6: the law intends or not what the law wants. So
• 19:50
  S6: will you get the transparency you need? It'll be a
• 19:53
  S6: better transparency. It will be clearer, but it's not going
• 19:56
  S6: to be what what we expect. And so I think
• 19:59
  S6: we're not really going to know until after the election
• 20:02
  S6: who's been funding this.
• 20:06
  S5: Wow. Well, thank you so much, Sarah, for your time.
• 20:09
  S6: Thank you.
• 20:13
  S5: Today's episode was produced by Tammy Mills, and our podcasts
• 20:17
  S5: are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you
• 20:21
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• 20:23
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