Latest / Gimbal Podcast / Ali Abdaal's Head of YouTube is All In on Opportunity-Maxxing

Transcript

Ali Abdaal's Head of YouTube is All In on Opportunity-Maxxing · Gimbal Podcast

• 0:00
  What can I post that literally nobody else can post about?
• 0:02
  And now you've gotten to the point where you're apparently getting reached out to by a
• 0:05
  thropic.
• 0:06
  I'm sort of learning six times faster because what unique value can you bring to the platform?
• 0:11
  The moment it felt worth it was, hi, I'm Becky Isora and I'm currently the head of YouTube
• 0:17
  for Allie Updall.
• 0:18
  Okay, Becky, you have a podcast, you have a newsletter, you just started creating your
• 0:24
  own short form content on your own Instagram page.
• 0:26
  And all of this has happened in the last like 18 months, I think, like you were not even
• 0:30
  a part of this industry just over a year ago.
• 0:33
  Tell me about your philosophy with connecting with other people in the space.
• 0:37
  I need to talk to people who are managing channels that are at least like 10 million subscribers
• 0:42
  because I cannot grow Allie's channel if I don't speak to people who are like a few
• 0:46
  steps ahead of me.
• 0:47
  I realize like, oh my god, all the YouTube records are for like beginners, like people
• 0:51
  who are just starting other channels.
• 0:53
  So the only way to get to be good at my job is to start learning from people who are
• 0:57
  in the industry.
• 0:58
  And that's when I started reaching out to a bunch of people.
• 1:01
  What's the best way to connect with someone who's ahead of you?
• 1:04
  My favorite way of connecting to people is not like asking stuff from them.
• 1:09
  It's like being in the vicinity of them.
• 1:11
  And I think that's also part of why I like to be on LinkedIn and social media is I'm
• 1:16
  just trying to pop up, but not in like a very creepy way.
• 1:19
  Not trying to like message me like, hey, hey, hey, hey, like this is, this is who I am and
• 1:23
  this is what I do.
• 1:24
  And like, I want this from you.
• 1:25
  So let's play out a scenario.
• 1:27
  Let's say I am someone who wants to connect with you.
• 1:30
  Are you suggesting for people to find you on Instagram or LinkedIn or email, like, what's
• 1:35
  the approach?
• 1:36
  I've been getting a lot of inbound recently because Allie's hiring for like, I don't
• 1:41
  know, a dozen roles in the company and I've just been getting messages about how to
• 1:46
  get hired or like, can you pass my name on and all of that?
• 1:49
  To be fair, that was kind of how I got in in a way, but I've just found all of them to
• 1:54
  be a little bit too much.
• 1:56
  Like, they've all just been like, hey, can you pass my name along with no contact, no
• 1:59
  nothing?
• 2:00
  Okay.
• 2:01
  I think starting off with, hey, I really, really love what you did.
• 2:04
  It's actually a great point.
• 2:05
  And then not immediately follow it up with an ask.
• 2:08
  Not immediately follow up with like, oh my god, can we grab, can I grab like 30 minutes
• 2:11
  of your time?
• 2:12
  I think to immediately send that message after like one of 30 others a bit much, I think
• 2:17
  the message like, hey, I really love this video and this thumbnail that you did.
• 2:22
  Really love like the information that was shared there.
• 2:24
  I hope to enter content creation one day and I really admire your work and I just want
• 2:28
  to stay in touch.
• 2:29
  I think that would have been like, oh my god, yes, of course, I'm so glad that you brought
• 2:32
  that up because it is kind of my approach as well or it has been my approach in the past.
• 2:37
  I remember a few years ago when the published press first launched, this was calling in
• 2:41
  Samir's newsletter.
• 2:42
  I was reading it and there really wasn't anything out there that was very similar to this
• 2:45
  and I was just so impressed with the work.
• 2:47
  So I reached out to the editor, Hannah Doyle and I just said, this is excellent.
• 2:51
  The work that you're doing is appreciated.
• 2:53
  Thank you so much.
• 2:54
  And I think that was the message.
• 2:55
  It was like a Twitter DM.
• 2:56
  That's all it was.
• 2:57
  And she responded, thank you, appreciate it.
• 2:59
  And then that was the end of the conversation for a good 30 or 60 days.
• 3:02
  Time went by and I continued to say, oh, I like this particular episode or this particular
• 3:06
  article.
• 3:07
  It wasn't overkill, but anytime that I found something like uniquely good, I just wanted
• 3:10
  to praise the person who put the energy in to make it.
• 3:13
  Initially, there became a time where I wanted to either get featured in the published press
• 3:17
  myself or get the person I was working for at the time Mark Matson featured in the published
• 3:21
  press, like as a value ad is an employee for him.
• 3:24
  That's when I made the ask.
• 3:25
  I was like, hey, here's my value as a video editor at the time.
• 3:27
  Do you want to do a piece on what it's like to be a video editor working in the creator
• 3:31
  economy?
• 3:32
  And she said, yes.
• 3:33
  This goes for all industries that the world is really, really small and everybody knows
• 3:37
  everybody.
• 3:38
  So if you're known for just taking, taking, taking without giving, I think this people
• 3:42
  know.
• 3:43
  So I think to that point, one of the things that I've been impressed with knowing you over
• 3:47
  the past five months is that you are building those relationships and you're understanding
• 3:51
  that nothing happens kind of immediately.
• 3:53
  You're extending these time horizons and you are just opening doors in the future, not
• 3:57
  really knowing where they're going.
• 3:59
  I want to pivot to this personal brand that you're building for yourself.
• 4:04
  One thing that I'm observing in the creator economy is people who have been working in
• 4:07
  this space for a couple of years are realizing the importance of having even just a small
• 4:12
  personal brand.
• 4:14
  What opportunities have come up by being active on LinkedIn versus creating a podcast where
• 4:19
  you're expressing yourself?
• 4:21
  One thing that's super helpful is people just know who I am because I'm in Hong Kong.
• 4:26
  There's pretty much no other YouTube producers in the city except for Corlaz who I work
• 4:31
  with and it's also because she's working with Izzy Cili who is in the same office with
• 4:34
  us.
• 4:35
  And apart from that, I don't know anybody else.
• 4:37
  So being online is this is my way of digital networking because I can't attend any of
• 4:43
  the industry mixers that I know are happening in New York, LA, London.
• 4:47
  But quite interestingly, two weeks ago, someone from Anthropic messaged me asking if I was
• 4:52
  looking for a job opportunity and it happened to be managing there.
• 4:57
  I know they're like YouTube channel for Claude.
• 5:01
  This is so insane.
• 5:02
  Somebody in my network saw my name pop up for both Claude and YouTube and passed my
• 5:08
  name along.
• 5:09
  And I'm guessing at a notice for sure, but I'm guessing the hiring manager probably looked
• 5:13
  at my profile and was like, yep, she uses Claude and she knows YouTube.
• 5:17
  And that's why she sent me a DM on LinkedIn.
• 5:19
  If I didn't have an active LinkedIn profile, I don't think she would have messaged me or
• 5:22
  I don't think she would have like, she kind of knows what she's talking about.
• 5:25
  Okay, let me, she's worth a shot.
• 5:27
  The opportunity didn't pan out, but I just thought like getting a cold DM being like,
• 5:30
  Hey, I'm from Anthropic and are you looking for a job opportunity?
• 5:34
  Because we're looking to expand our YouTube channel is insane.
• 5:37
  I couldn't sleep after getting that message.
• 5:39
  Yeah, that's it.
• 5:40
  That's a wild opportunity.
• 5:42
  The fact that it came to you rather than you having to reach out as well as, you know,
• 5:45
  a testament to the work that we're talking about today.
• 5:47
  You are on LinkedIn.
• 5:48
  You're on Instagram very actively.
• 5:50
  You have a sub stack that I forgot to mention.
• 5:52
  You've got podcasts.
• 5:53
  How are you managing all of this?
• 5:54
  Like, what are the tactics you are using to cover all of these places?
• 5:59
  I think the stuff that I put on LinkedIn has no strategy.
• 6:02
  I know like a lot of people would do like these like well written out stuff.
• 6:05
  And I think I'm just a natural writer and I just like writing.
• 6:09
  I just like having opinions and expressing them.
• 6:12
  So I guess it's not just having thoughts, but actually like putting that thoughts out
• 6:16
  because you just ever know who's also like interested in what you're interested in.
• 6:20
  The internet is a fun place and you know, if it doesn't resonate with certain people,
• 6:24
  they would just scroll past it.
• 6:25
  Let's explore LinkedIn.
• 6:26
  I personally think LinkedIn is a really hot spot for people who work behind the scenes
• 6:29
  of the creator economy right now.
• 6:31
  It was previously Twitter.
• 6:32
  Now it seems like LinkedIn is the place.
• 6:34
  Oh my god.
• 6:35
  It's so wild.
• 6:36
  I only, like I'm on LinkedIn because I came from a financial journalism background.
• 6:39
  And I'm only on LinkedIn because all my sources were bankers and consultants and lawyers
• 6:44
  and therefore they existed on LinkedIn.
• 6:46
  So I was the only reason I'm there.
• 6:47
  So when I started working for a YouTuber, that was just where I naturally started posting.
• 6:52
  Not knowing that it was this like hot news social media platform on the block.
• 6:56
  It's like that's like the most corporate place ever.
• 6:58
  Yeah, it's new to me.
• 7:00
  Like new this year, I had a LinkedIn for many years, literally never used it.
• 7:04
  This year I'm much more active on it.
• 7:05
  I'm much more excited about LinkedIn as well.
• 7:07
  Like I check it frequently.
• 7:08
  It's on my phone.
• 7:09
  Walk me through what tomorrow's post might be like.
• 7:12
  Do you have an inkling of an idea in the back of your head and you're just like, I just
• 7:15
  got to express myself some way and I don't know what it's going to lead to.
• 7:18
  I don't know who's going to comment on it if anything.
• 7:21
  How am I going to write this?
• 7:22
  Give me the step by step.
• 7:23
  Okay, so I know once a week we post a video on Ali's channel and I don't post a video
• 7:28
  before it comes out just because it's, I treat it as like an embargo.
• 7:31
  Like it's not published.
• 7:32
  I don't post anything about it.
• 7:33
  But once it's out, it's like public domain because YouTube is a public video.
• 7:37
  So I'll try to write about it.
• 7:38
  I'll try to write about maybe it's a thumbnail contest.
• 7:41
  Maybe it's the hook that we wrote.
• 7:43
  Maybe it's like a BTS photo of the shoot.
• 7:45
  The way I try to approach my LinkedIn writing is like, what can I post that literally
• 7:51
  nobody else can post about?
• 7:52
  Because I can't philosophize about like some strategy or like, oh my God,
• 7:56
  these are like seven things you should do for a YouTube channel and stuff.
• 7:58
  So many people are doing that on LinkedIn and so my post would not stand out.
• 8:02
  But if I have like this unique thing that nobody else can post about,
• 8:06
  which is my position as Ali's YouTube producer, I can literally take a photo of Ali
• 8:11
  behind the camera and nobody else in the world will have that photo.
• 8:14
  I am so glad you said that.
• 8:16
  So, so glad you said that.
• 8:17
  Like what unique value can you bring to the platform?
• 8:20
  What are your unfair advantages?
• 8:22
  You're leaning into that.
• 8:23
  This is a huge unlock for me by the way.
• 8:24
  This is me finally realizing like what your approach is.
• 8:28
  Yes.
• 8:28
  Yeah, it's not like how to.
• 8:29
  It's like how I because it's one thing is strategy.
• 8:33
  But also like, your point of view is so unique.
• 8:36
  It's probably something you tell your clients, something like we always try to bring up
• 8:40
  and tell people like, hey, you should like lean into your stories, your angles,
• 8:44
  your experiences because nobody else can do it for you.
• 8:47
  And another thing is sometimes I just like to post about relatable things.
• 8:51
  So if a video is an eight of 10, which in the YouTube world is just like a totally
• 8:55
  failing video, like sometimes I would post about that and I would be like, oh, like
• 9:00
  Mondays, right?
• 9:01
  Or something like that.
• 9:02
  It's just funny.
• 9:03
  It's like so unrelated.
• 9:04
  Like nobody who's, people who are not here would not know.
• 9:06
  But then people who are in the industry would be like, oh my god, yes.
• 9:10
  So it's also just like inside jockey stuff, unique point of views, stories.
• 9:15
  I love telling stories.
• 9:16
  This is not like YouTube related, but I find that whenever I talk about money and my family
• 9:19
  situation, I get a lot of DMs from people because they just, they're like, oh my god,
• 9:24
  I never knew this about you.
• 9:26
  And actually my, I experienced the same thing with my dad.
• 9:29
  And then just builds like a different layer of connection.
• 9:31
  I think I'm always just focused on like, what can I share that literally nobody else can?
• 9:34
  And how do I make it engaging?
• 9:36
  How do I make it funny?
• 9:38
  How do I make it relatable?
• 9:40
  And then there's all sorts of tactics like hooks and making sure that the first line is
• 9:43
  catchy and making sure it's not like 10 blocks of paragraphs or anything.
• 9:47
  I mean, it's very similar to the stuff that we do for creators.
• 9:51
  You're just turning it on yourself.
• 9:52
  Yeah.
• 9:53
  And doing it in like a lightweight because I'm not making a long for a muted video every single week.
• 9:57
  I don't have the skill set or resources to be able to do that.
• 10:01
  But I can write a post every single day.
• 10:02
  Like it's just a couple of minutes.
• 10:04
  It's like, is that your target once per day?
• 10:06
  It kind of is.
• 10:08
  Yeah.
• 10:08
  I just realized that I have so many things to say.
• 10:11
  But apparently LinkedIn advises you should post once every 24 hours.
• 10:14
  Otherwise, it kind of realizes your previous post.
• 10:17
  So what I do is if I have like five ideas in a row, then I just schedule it for like five
• 10:22
  days ahead.
• 10:23
  So I would have these bursts and I would literally schedule them.
• 10:26
  Okay.
• 10:27
  So you're posting once a day and a lot of the time it's stuff that you have an unfair
• 10:30
  advantage about things that only you can know and can share.
• 10:33
  How long have you been doing this for and how long did it take doing it consistently before
• 10:38
  you actually saw any kind of ROI in terms of like making stronger connections with people
• 10:43
  or becoming an emerging thought leader on the platform?
• 10:46
  Yeah.
• 10:47
  The short answer is I've been doing it for a year.
• 10:49
  The long answer is I've been creating content for eight years.
• 10:53
  I count writing news articles and then writing LinkedIn posts about it as like my first, I
• 10:58
  guess, five years of journalism and I did that.
• 11:01
  I had a YouTube channel where I was posting every single week about art videos that I don't
• 11:05
  think anybody watches.
• 11:06
  It's a small channel is two thousand subscribers.
• 11:08
  But that gave me the discipline to show up every single week.
• 11:12
  I then abandoned it for a sub stack newsletter that I've been writing every single week
• 11:16
  for three years now.
• 11:17
  So the benefit of that is that I have this massive backlog of content that I can just go
• 11:23
  back on and like resurface and then just bring up that like one story.
• 11:28
  I think storytelling has just been really, really important to me.
• 11:32
  It helps me make sense of me as a person, not to be super self centered, but it's just
• 11:36
  really, really interesting to process everything that's happened in my life and then to be able
• 11:40
  to take those stories and tell those stories in a really engaging way, which is also a big
• 11:46
  skill for us as people who work for creators.
• 11:49
  Storytelling is becoming a really, really big skill that apparently like people in the
• 11:52
  tech world are like paying six figures for as well.
• 11:56
  Yeah.
• 11:57
  Also, like the skill of repurposing content and all of that, like these are all skills.
• 12:00
  Again, like you said, like exists in this like creator world, but also being able to do
• 12:04
  it on myself gives me the reps that like, okay, if I only do repurposing content and storytelling
• 12:10
  for Ali's stuff, then that gives me what like once a week to practice, but if I do it
• 12:15
  on itself every single day, then I'm sort of learning six times faster because I'm doing
• 12:20
  in the reps in a much more, I guess, sandbox environment because like, who cares if I get
• 12:25
  canceled?
• 12:26
  Like, I just don't want to lead you get canceled because of the way I, if I spun this
• 12:29
  story wrongly, that kind of thing.
• 12:31
  Interesting.
• 12:32
  Okay.
• 12:33
  So by doing it every single day, by using yourself as kind of like a sandbox for experimenting,
• 12:39
  you are leveling up the skill set that Ali is actually paying you for.
• 12:43
  Yeah.
• 12:44
  It's a, it's a nice way to practice and also helps with the personal brand too.
• 12:48
  So it's a, it's a win-win.
• 12:49
  Yeah.
• 12:50
  Well, I mean, one of the things that really impresses me about you is just the rate of
• 12:55
  becoming excellent.
• 12:57
  I remember like the first time I met you, which was not that long ago, four or five months
• 13:00
  ago, you were, you were like expressing yourself as someone who's learning as quickly as possible.
• 13:03
  And now you've gotten to the point where you're apparently getting reached out to by
• 13:06
  anthropic and you are a thought leader in this creator economy, BTS space, like you are
• 13:11
  learning at a rate that nobody else is learning at.
• 13:13
  And so seeing you post every single day and hearing the philosophy behind it, I think
• 13:17
  is helping me understand how you are emerging so quickly.
• 13:21
  How long did it take before it felt worth it to you?
• 13:26
  Presumably there was a period of time when nobody was reading the content.
• 13:29
  You were probably measuring yourself with views or reads in a way that everybody in this
• 13:33
  industry measures themselves.
• 13:34
  Like how do you push through when you make 40 LinkedIn posts and collectively they get
• 13:38
  seen by 37 people?
• 13:40
  The moment it felt worth it was when people started messaging me, being like, hey, I really
• 13:47
  love your writing on LinkedIn.
• 13:49
  That was not evident in the numbers at all.
• 13:52
  But I think if people message you about something that they've seen, I think that's a really,
• 13:56
  really big signal.
• 13:57
  I think Colin and Samir said this ones were like, now instead of views, what they tried
• 14:01
  to gauge on is like when they show up to an in-person event, what videos people are telling
• 14:05
  them about.
• 14:06
  So it's a similar thing when I, when people started reaching out to me and they're like,
• 14:09
  hey, your post about X was was really, really cool.
• 14:13
  That's when I was like, oh, okay, I'm on to something here.
• 14:16
  And I think I guess the thing with posting on social media is you just never know what's
• 14:20
  going to pop off.
• 14:21
  It's always like, we have all these best practices, we have all these things that we know are
• 14:25
  going to work, but you just never know what's going to hit with people.
• 14:28
  And I think it's when I started posting about using Claude and YouTube.
• 14:33
  I think it's when I suddenly found this like magic rocket ship where my posts were just
• 14:38
  getting shared and people just started reaching out to me.
• 14:41
  And when I show up in like group chats, they're like, oh my god, you're the person that
• 14:44
  like does all this Claude stuff on YouTube.
• 14:46
  And that's when I was like, oh, I hit something here.
• 14:49
  If you are looking ahead like four or five years, do you see yourself as a front facing
• 14:53
  person on the internet?
• 14:55
  Are you just building your personal brand so that eventually you stop working for somebody
• 14:59
  else in your self-employed, just kind of like creating your own stuff?
• 15:02
  Or is there a world where you still continue to work for somebody else, but you're just
• 15:05
  supplementing your, I don't know, your resume with a personal brand?
• 15:09
  Oh, man.
• 15:10
  Ali was telling me today that you're the kind of person who I could tell from day one.
• 15:15
  Just wants to do her own thing.
• 15:17
  I've been employed my whole life and I honestly really like it.
• 15:20
  Hey, really like working together towards a goal with a group of people and growing
• 15:26
  something together and building something together.
• 15:29
  The stuff that I share online is just because I love learning and I love sharing what
• 15:33
  I learned because that results in interesting connections and meeting a bunch of new people
• 15:40
  and also more learnings in return.
• 15:42
  Ideally, I would love to just like share on the internet for the fun of it, the way
• 15:45
  like people used to make videos because it was fun to upload on YouTube that you were
• 15:50
  doing something cool in your backyard.
• 15:52
  Ideally, I would never get famous.
• 15:54
  I would hate to be like recognized on the street one day.
• 15:57
  It doesn't seem fun.
• 15:58
  I would like to have a bad day and nobody come up to me when I'm having a bad day.
• 16:02
  Right.
• 16:03
  I think about this sometimes as well.
• 16:05
  The philosophy that I have around this is I want to be the shovel to the gold rush.
• 16:09
  Like everybody wants to be a part of the gold rush and the companies that manufacture
• 16:13
  the shovels.
• 16:14
  Like nobody outside of that industry knows the name of the company that manufactures shovels.
• 16:19
  But to the people who are participating in the gold rush, they know the name of the shovel.
• 16:23
  And so that's kind of like the area that I'm trying to land in.
• 16:26
  I'm trying to be the person who can go to VidCon and, you know, a very small group of people
• 16:31
  can come up and say, Hey, I appreciate your work or hey, you know, I've learned this
• 16:34
  from you or hey, here's an opportunity.
• 16:36
  Would you like to do it?
• 16:37
  But then outside of that, I have no interest in anything beyond that.
• 16:40
  How did you get connected with Ali Abdall, by the way?
• 16:42
  Can you tell that story?
• 16:43
  Oh my gosh.
• 16:44
  Okay.
• 16:45
  I was working in a bank and I was moonlighting for this writing course by Dave
• 16:49
  at Pearl called writer passage.
• 16:51
  And when Ali Abdall moved to Hong Kong, I knew that David and Ali were friends.
• 16:56
  I also got a rejection email for applying for one of Ali's jobs.
• 17:01
  And I replied to that person being like, Hey, thanks so much for the rejection letter.
• 17:05
  And then she replied saying like, Hey, your profile looks like you're a good writer.
• 17:10
  And we're actually having a writer really, really soon.
• 17:13
  So I took that information.
• 17:14
  Ali just happened to be hosting an event that day.
• 17:17
  And I kind of beeline to him being like, Hey, I'm Becky.
• 17:20
  I heard from staff member that you're looking for a writer.
• 17:23
  I used to work for David Pearl.
• 17:25
  I have a permanent resident status in Hong Kong and don't need a visa.
• 17:29
  And that was my pitch.
• 17:31
  And he immediately gave me his phone and was like, I need your number.
• 17:35
  And that's kind of how I got connected with Ali in a couple of months later.
• 17:39
  I got an interview.
• 17:40
  Well, well, so wait, so you took his number, you texted him and then things went quiet
• 17:44
  for a couple of months?
• 17:45
  He took my number and didn't do anything with it.
• 17:48
  But to this day, Ali remembers that story.
• 17:50
  And he would tell that story to people to be like, Oh, if you want to get a job, like,
• 17:53
  this is how Becky did it.
• 17:54
  Yeah, I do feel like in this industry, if you just submit your resume, it's not enough.
• 17:58
  You do need to go above and beyond in some capacity.
• 18:00
  There's just too much out there, too much noise.
• 18:02
  So finding a creative in, I think, is the play.
• 18:06
  It's what people call like the third door opportunity where the first door is like the resume,
• 18:10
  the second door is you know somebody who knew somebody and third door is just like where
• 18:14
  you just have to crack your way in.
• 18:16
  It's already a creative industry to begin with and a lot of people I think who try to get
• 18:20
  hired by creators are fans, which is great.
• 18:23
  But then a lot of the times people just want to get hired because they're fans and don't
• 18:26
  have anything to offer being able to show your work or show at least like an understanding
• 18:31
  of this industry.
• 18:32
  I feel like it's important.
• 18:34
  Tell me about the interview itself.
• 18:36
  How did that go?
• 18:37
  Ooh, I met up with Ali at a coffee shop and he immediately was like, Hey, since you're
• 18:43
  trialing for a ghost writer, which is the position that I was hired for, let's go take
• 18:48
  a few laps around this park that we happen to be in.
• 18:53
  And just interview me and then see how much of that is like useful for you to write
• 18:58
  newsletter articles or whatever you can think of.
• 19:00
  So I regrettably wasn't heels because I knew Ali was a tall person and I'm a short,
• 19:06
  short, short, short person, but I was like, All right, we just got to do it.
• 19:09
  And I just kind of turned on my journalist brain and was like, All right, how do I ask
• 19:14
  Ali as many questions as possible?
• 19:15
  And that was like the interview.
• 19:16
  It was just like us walking around a park multiple times, me asking questions and me like
• 19:21
  holding up my phone to his face because I knew my phone on a voice and a function.
• 19:26
  And then I submitted, I guess the newsletters I had written by hand because I did not use
• 19:31
  AI before working with Ali because I didn't know how to that was the interview before I joined
• 19:37
  full time.
• 19:38
  We did do a trial.
• 19:39
  Oh, I took a week off my day job and I worked a week for Ali just to see that if he likes
• 19:44
  me and if I like the work.
• 19:46
  And I guess it was like a trial period for both of us where we were just trying to figure
• 19:50
  out, is this actually a role that he wants and is this a company that I actually want
• 19:54
  to work for?
• 19:55
  What do you think got you the job?
• 19:57
  So I didn't learn this until much later, but because I had mentioned that I worked for
• 20:01
  David Pearl, Ali texted a friend that he knew that worked on writer passage and was like,
• 20:06
  hey, Becky applied for this job.
• 20:08
  How would you, would you vouch for her?
• 20:11
  And this guy said, yes, this guy is Will Manon who you may have also seen around the internet
• 20:14
  world, helped build writer passage and build a second brain courses.
• 20:18
  And out of the blue Ali message him and Will was like, yeah, if he's great, would vouch
• 20:22
  for her.
• 20:23
  And that was what got me the job because I didn't have any experience in the creator economy,
• 20:27
  but he had a recommendation that he trusted.
• 20:31
  That's kind of full circle because I think one of your unique advantages is that you have
• 20:35
  become so well connected with everybody in this industry because of your efforts by reaching
• 20:39
  out to them and just, you know, telling them that you like their stuff.
• 20:42
  And now, hearing how you got the job with Ali, it's because of that exact skill, which
• 20:46
  is super cool.
• 20:47
  So I imagine that if you continue to do this, you will probably become president of the
• 20:51
  United States at some point or CEO of the world.
• 20:54
  I don't know.
• 20:55
  You just got to keep networking.
• 20:56
  I just want to work your way to the top.
• 20:59
  Yeah, especially.
• 21:01
  Who is somebody on your radar right now in the creator economy?
• 21:04
  Oh my God.
• 21:05
  Have you seen Dominic Hart's videos?
• 21:07
  He's like this guy from Australia who makes these like quirky fun videos about journaling
• 21:14
  analog habits.
• 21:15
  I think he had a journaling video that blew up last year.
• 21:18
  But his videos are just so fun.
• 21:19
  He's just like making fun scenes, very filmmaking-esque, but also just very like making fun of himself.
• 21:26
  Do you know him?
• 21:27
  I don't know.
• 21:28
  I'm talking as I know him.
• 21:29
  Have you reached out and told them that you like his work?
• 21:32
  I have.
• 21:33
  I comment on his stuff and I would post below his Instagram to be like, I really, really
• 21:39
  like this frame in the video.
• 21:41
  That's it for this episode.
• 21:42
  Thank you so much for watching or listening.
• 21:44
  If you're new here, please consider subscribing or leaving us a review on the audio platforms.
• 21:48
  It helps us out really, really much in these early, early days of the show.
• 21:52
  If you're a producer, creative director, head of content, and you manage a channel that
• 21:56
  has over a million subscribers, reach out.
• 21:58
  We would like to interview you and hear your expertise.
• 22:01
  We put a new episode out every Thursday, so we will see you then.