Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / How Into The Gloss and Away alum, Dianna Cohen, launched her haircare brand Crown Affair from a google doc that went viral

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How Into The Gloss and Away alum, Dianna Cohen, launched her haircare brand Crown Affair from a google doc that went viral · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Diana Cohen for Female Startup Club. Hey everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. I'm your host, Doona Roisin, and joining me on the show today is Diana Cohen, the founder of haircare essential startup Crown Affair.
• 0:26
  Crown Affair is a company that's reimagining hair rituals and taking a considered approach for the top of your noggin. And this story all starts from an unassuming Google Doc.
• 0:38
  When Diana decided to share her hair care routine with some women in her life, and that document suddenly went all over the internet, she saw a huge opportunity to innovate in a space that she had such a fond personal connection with and bring her past industry experience in building brands for companies like Away, Outdoor Voices, and The Wing into her D2C brand.
• 0:59
  Launched pre-pandemic, Diana shares the lessons she's been learning along the way, how she approached her pitch, and the importance of community and storytelling. If you love this episode, please do subscribe and share it with a friend. This is Diana for Female Startup Club. Diana, thank you so much for joining me on the Female Startup Club podcast today. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
• 1:26
  Yes, me too. I'm so excited to chat. I always love to start by getting you to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are and what your business is. Yeah, so hi, I am Diana Cohen. I am the founder and CEO of Crown Affair, which is a hair care line focused on mindful care for healthier hair. I've lived in New York for 11 years, which is where we're chatting. I'm chatting from right now.
• 1:53
  I've worked in consumer for the last eight. It's been quite a journey as this world of e-commerce and consumer businesses has evolved quite a bit. And I, yeah, I mean, I'm such a consumer nerd and I'm truly a hair care nerd above all. And Crowd Affair was really born from my passion of just taking care of my hair and my daily rituals and the way that you have like a skincare friend who knows all of the little details. I've always been
• 2:22
  That's really how this journey started.
• 2:25
  I love that. And when we were talking about rituals a moment ago before we pressed play on this recording, and I was thinking to myself, brushing my hair is actually a ritual that I really love too. I read that you also had that. And it's something that I think is so important that you take note of those tiny rituals that maybe you hadn't considered before. But when I was thinking about rituals before and when I was reading about your brand, I was like, yeah, I actually really enjoy my moments of hair brushing. Yeah.
• 2:54
  as well. It's so important, but I'd never thought about it before.
• 2:57
  Oh, it is truly one of my favorite parts of the day. I mean, I, especially now, you know, spending so much time at home, like all of the moments and structures that I have that like support my wellbeing, brushing my hair every night, being one of them, you know, even just the full ritual of how I take care of myself post shower is like a 30 minute situation with like lymphatic drainage and gloss shot and like how I oil my hair. But even in the morning, just like
• 3:25
  I write journal. I do my morning pages every morning from the artist's way. I like have to stretch and foam roll. And I think just being so aware of the things that make you feel whole is really important. And this is one that I was just organically sharing for so long. So it's cool to like bring it into the world and see people like respond to it. And I think
• 3:47
  really reorient themselves around how they care for themselves. And, you know, I've been so lucky to work with a range of consumer brands over the last almost decade that have really introduced, I think, an audience to new ways to think about the way they move through the world. So I love doing this every day. It's like truly the greatest gift. I get to do it.
• 4:07
  Oh, I love that. I can totally hear it in your enthusiasm. I want to go back to the very beginning. I know you have a really interesting background. And like you said, you've worked for so many amazing consumer brands. So can we go back to the kind of like starting way back when, where you were working, what you were doing, what was happening in your life that was kind of leading up to, you know, this year?
• 4:29
  Yeah. So we can't even take it one step back, which is where I'm from and where I grew up. Yes, definitely. So I grew up in a really small town in South Florida called Lighthouse Point. It's like an hour north of Miami, you know, very suburban upbringing.
• 4:47
  I played sports. I was a total tomboy for a long time. And sometime around eighth grade, I got very into art history and was a big Tumblr kid and was definitely the kid in high school who was ripping out fashion magazines and so passionate about beauty and design. And I knew that I wanted to go to New York. I had no idea what I would do. I just knew that I wanted to be around creative people, putting things into the world that...
• 5:14
  could inspire someone like me sitting in my bedroom and so far away from where the magic was being created. And I came to New York and was really lucky. I went to NYU. I had the opportunity to intern at a range of places in fashion. I always joke. I'm like, you know, you watch The Devil Wears Prada and you're like, I just want to work for Anna Wintour and be a condé. But, you know, the years that I was in university, like the world changed quite a bit. I mean, the internet was obviously a thing.
• 5:41
  for a very long time. But I think the implications of how the internet was changing our behavior, especially from a publishing perspective, was very clear. And while I'm so grateful to have worked, like I remember interning at Valentino for two semesters during like Oscar seasons and like, you know, understanding the PR and celebrity dressing and really like,
• 6:02
  Working with so many incredible legacy brands to understand what made them unique, I think, had such a great foundation. But I also knew that when the time came to actually look for job opportunities, that I just really loved working at smaller places and startups that had a direct impact.
• 6:19
  Not that I had the language or vernacular for it then, but I had emailed, just cold emailed this woman who had this beauty website that I was obsessed with. It had like maybe 10 interviews on it at the time. And it was Emily Weiss when she first started Into the Gloss.
• 6:34
  And I became an intern for her and Nick. And this was when it was very much a one-room office. And it was purely editorial, kind of pre-glossier days. But, you know, moderated the comment section, uploaded things to our social, transcribed all those interviews. Like, it was just a total education in terms of storytelling. And I think...
• 6:56
  really Emily pioneered that connection to real women. I mean, obviously a lot of the women profiles on Into the Gloss are incredible and fabulous women. But, you know, we now live in a world where you can go to Reese Witherspoon's Instagram and see what smoothie she's making that morning. But like at the time, the only access to women like that was through like,
• 7:15
  People magazine or like very filtered through the lens of journalists. And it was just so inspiring to be able to be like, oh, she uses this random rosewater from like Whole Foods. That's like $8, you know, and then the comment section was just like the gold mine. And I think that that was such a, an incredible shift in terms of like consumers really starting to take power and connect with each other.
• 7:40
  And instead of people sitting in boardrooms at major companies, which is still happening, and that is still what runs the world. But I think the last decade of really putting the power in the consumer's hands, having people like me be able to create a hair care line. I'm not an ex-Loreal exec. I've never sat in a boardroom. This inspiration has come from thousands of conversations and my own personal journey as a customer.
• 8:04
  And yeah, Into the Gloss was amazing. And then after that, I was really lucky to meet a woman named Erica Katz, who is the current co-founder of a supplement company called Seed. But she is the greatest marketer I've ever worked with. I probably will ever work with. And she really taught me everything about grassroots marketing, which...
• 8:23
  All of those principles I used to launch Crown Affair, we still use every day. We had our holiday launch yesterday and just the entire go-to-market strategy and thinking about all of these launches beyond just the initial launch. But all of these milestones and moments that you have as a brand, she really brought me under her wing and she's been a mentor for my entire career.
• 8:42
  And yeah, and just to kind of the rest of the career, I was lucky to, you know, I launched Tamara Mellon about five years ago as a consultant when she, after selling Jimmy Choo and really thinking about rebranding and repositioning her as a luxury direct consumer shoe company.
• 9:01
  She obviously has such a legacy and working with someone who made like truly one of the most iconic shoe brands of the 90s and 2000s was an education to say the least. And, you know, as an early employee away, the luggage company was head of partnerships there, did nine partnerships, learned a ton. And actually, like, this is why every experience matters. I mean...
• 9:24
  At Crown Affair now, we actually just did a partnership with Madewell. We've done partnerships with Violet Gray. So many of those relationships came from three and a half years ago when I was at Away. So every opportunity really does make an impact, even if you can't see it in the moment. And then, yeah, I started an agency between Leaving Away and launching Crown Affair, which I had for two years. Yeah.
• 9:47
  called Levitate. And we did brand strategy consulting. We launched Harry's, the razor company, their women's line, Flamingo. I worked with The Wing. I worked with Outdoor Voices for two years on their influencer ambassador strategy and a number of other clients, mostly in LA and New York and
• 10:05
  That was a really fun time. I got to create my own schedule and work from home. So I'd pop into clients' offices, but I'm very much here for the 70-30 remote in-office culture. So I'm a big fan of where we are today. And yeah, I launched Crown Affair 10 months ago in January. I had no idea we'd be in the middle of a global pandemic. But I think...
• 10:27
  rolling with it and just waking up every day. I think like all entrepreneurs just need absolute resilience and passion. And I'm so grateful I get to do this every day with my team. It's really a joy.
• 10:40
  Wow. Firstly, what a journey. Oh my gosh. So many cool things dotted in there that I'm like, Oh, I want to know about this. What's she like? Oh my gosh. Cool. Um, so many things to unpack. I really want to come back. I'm going to circle back around in a little bit about the grassroots marketing that you really learned.
• 10:58
  when you were with her so we can kind of understand better, like what you were bringing into, you know, your launches now with Crown Affair. But I kind of want to stick with the launch moment and the light bulb moment around Crown Affair. I know that you had this document that you were sharing with people and you were talking about your hair care rituals and people were always asking you about your hair. But when did it kind of switch into you thinking, hang on, maybe the agency is good for right now, but maybe I'm going to launch my own hair care brand?
• 11:28
  Yes. So first and foremost, when launching Levitate, the agency, I always knew that I didn't want to build an agency. As much as I love levitating innovators, I just I wasn't trying to build a whole team around it. So I kind of always knew that in the back of my mind, even though I was doing it in real time. There were a couple of light bulb moments.
• 11:49
  One was the Google Docs. So I, as I mentioned, I'm like a full hair care nerd. I invest in quality tools and products. I treat my hair like it is silk. Like at night, you should see my fiance laughs at me like the way I position my hair on the pillow. Even just how I like shampoo it in the shower. Like I'm so delicate with it. And I, and I'm mindful of it and respect it. And
• 12:14
  Not everyone was doing that. And I would tell friends, they're like, I was traveling a lot. And they'd be like, wait, what are you doing right now? Like, why do you have this random comb? Or like, how do you get your hair to air dry like that? Like, what's happening? So I finally put it into a Google Doc, like the 16 things that I just do. And it's not necessarily like steps, but, and it varies by week. This is what I brush. And this is a certain oil that I use. And here's why it's important. I kind of wish that it didn't have this ingredient in it, but it's the best one I found. And yeah.
• 12:43
  I shared it out and it was a Sunday. And like, I said it on a Friday night. That Sunday, I had like dozens of people in it. I had no idea who they were. It was like people were requesting access. There was commenting in it. And I was just like, this is so crazy.
• 12:59
  how, how there is so much content, right? Like you can go to YouTube and look at like hair tutorials or like how to get Chrissy Teigen's ponytail at Coachella, but like nothing about like how to actually care for your hair in a way that felt really accessible and relatable. And it was just so clear how little guidance was in this category. And then
• 13:19
  you know, the other thing too, like during when I was traveling a lot for, for when I was consulting, like I would stay at a hotel and I'm like, I would never expect the hotel to like have my skincare. Like, why am I doing that for hair care? Like, you know what I'm here for like two weeks? Like, why am I not honoring that? And really, it does make a difference in how I feel and it does make a difference. So yeah, that, those were kind of the two big moments. And then
• 13:44
  You know, my, my friend, my fiance's best friend is in such a part of this journey. He's a bioengineer and chemist. And I actually sent him and his wife the Google Doc and they saw their hair transform over time after they started to take care of it. And
• 14:00
  We just started working on stuff. We're like, okay, can we take our favorite $200 hairbrush and reverse engineer it? And what can we make better about it? And how do we find vendors that are sustainable and can do this at a more accessible price point? And the truth is, the category is just really dated. It's very salon-driven. It's very wholesale-driven.
• 14:19
  there hasn't been a ton of innovation on the ingredient side, like in the way that skincare and color cosmetics have been democratized over the last 10 years, like the same thing has just not really happened with hair care. So that was really the spark of the journey. And I was very much working on this like nights and weekends while I was doing Levitate. And then the inflection point very candidly was like, I either needed to raise money to keep doing this. Like I had put
• 14:46
  a bit of money away to allocate to samples and product development. But then I was just like, I can't keep funding this on my own. So that was my moment of like, I think there's something here and I'm going to go forth and do this. Wowee. So exciting. And so at that point, did you raise straight away? Did you go out and start trying to meet with people? What were those kind of next phases that you went through to actually get the brand developed and get products that you were happy with?
• 15:15
  Yeah. So the first two things that I did was we actually had samples that people had tried and we had done like small focus groups and had sent product out to get, you know, feedback on what we were doing. So they were if you looked at these samples, you would laugh now. They look nothing like what is on the crown of parasite. But, you know, it was just great to actually have physical product that people could give give real time feedback to. Yeah.
• 15:39
  And the other thing that I had was our current creative director, who's been our creative director. We actually worked together at Away. He is one of the most talented graphic designers that I've ever worked with and hopefully will be one of the only ones I worked with for the rest of my life. I'm not in love with...
• 15:55
  hit collaborating with him in his work. And I had told him about my vision for Crown Affair. And we had really early stages of what this brand felt like and what the universe that we're currently building felt like. And that felt so different for a hair care brand. I think so often, like, it's such an afterthought, or it's very like hashtag hair goals, or like good hair days. And it's just like, you know, really selling perfection, or I don't know, I just had to
• 16:21
  For all of the brands I'm loyal to is skincare and other categories and lifestyle. Like hair care was not one of them. And truthfully, my favorite ones are often rooted in like professional and fashion. And, you know, that's Orbe or Christophe Robin. And it's like, they're great, but they haven't innovated their ingredients in a very long time. And it's very like celebrity stylist, which I love. But I just, I wanted something different that I could connect to. And visually was a universe that I wanted to live in. So started there.
• 16:51
  And then I was really fortunate coming from consumer, a lot of venture-backed brands. I was able to get some early meetings to share the vision. And...
• 17:02
  you know, raising money is one of, I think I look back on it now, are raising for our seed round. And it was one of the most valuable experiences of my life. Like I had over 200 investor meetings and you just become so, you just know how to, I mean, you learn so much about how to take a meeting, like, you know, listening and understanding what they're looking for. And then, you know, really positioning and building this narrative around what the brand could be and what the opportunity is. And, you know,
• 17:30
  Also, like a lot of these people are so brilliant and so interesting. So whether they end up going forward with the deal or not, just to be able to like have these conversations, I think is, again, like measuring the journey and not the end result is such an important part of being an entrepreneur. So, but I got really lucky. I mean, my philosophy with fundraising, I think I, I think I counted it the other day. I think I've been a part of 12 fundraisers as an employee. Oh, wow. So yeah.
• 17:57
  Yeah, not, by the way, not that I was like pitching. You also had some, some basic experience. Yeah. I mean, by the way, I was like, not an important part. Like I might've helped with like a slide on the deck or something like that. But, um, you know, as an employee and as a team member, you like understand the implication of what it means to raise money and what evaluation is and how much money you want to raise. And I think my takeaways were like raise enough to do what you need to do.
• 18:22
  this is a relationship. It's like getting into a marriage. Like you need to find, not all money is created equal. You need to find partners who really are on the same page. And you know, whether that's with paid marketing, for example, like most of, almost everything we do at crowd affairs organic, we spend, we have a very, very, very small paid marketing spend every month. And,
• 18:42
  coming from brands that would easily spend a million dollars a month, if not a quarter a month. It's like, that's just a different way to fundamentally build a business and acquire customers. So there are VCs and investors who prefer that. And they're like, go for it. Growth at all costs. And I knew that that was not how I wanted to...
• 18:59
  run my business because I think great brands take decades to build. And more importantly, build my team. You know, I was coming from a place of like, every Monday, there were five new people on the team for like years. And like, you know, you might be eight people in a room or like one of the first employees. And then a year you look up, you're like, how are there 130 people here right now? This is crazy. And like, you know, I think, you know, Crown Affair right now is five people.
• 19:25
  I would love for the company at most to be like 20 people and every person feel like very intentional with the work they're doing. Internal culture is so important to me. And I think that when you do grow at all costs, it's much easier to break things and maybe not really think about your team. And I mean, this year more than ever, like the harmony of finding balance in your personal and professional life is so important because we are living where we work and it's
• 19:54
  You know, and everyone is experiencing with the pandemic in particular. It's like, you know, family members, loved ones, you just have to show up every day and be empathetic. It's like, at the end of the day, like, my goal is to empower women and men. But you know, a lot of our customers are women, empower women and change the way they move through the world. And whether that's through product, whether that's through our mentorship program, Seedling, which has been like one of the most rewarding parts of this.
• 20:22
  And our team, like that's the most important thing is that we're taking care of each other. So anyway, that was a long winded way to say that like that ladders up to how you raise money. And we got really lucky in terms of the partner and our lead. And we have 20, about 25 investors, a mix of angels and our lead. They're really excited and on the same page, which I think is especially in year one. So important.
• 20:49
  Hmm. So exciting. When you said you did the 200 interviews, you went through that process, you know, in a really big way. My two questions are when you were seeing like the kinds of things that they were looking for, what were those kinds of things that they were saying that they were looking for, whether they did or not invest in you, what were the kind of things they're interested in? And B, did you have to kind of pivot or change your pitch as you went through
• 21:20
  meetings? Yeah. So, um, such a good question. You know, it was, it was a really interesting process to listen to what people were looking for a year ago. And then, you know, we still talk to investors all the time. Like people reach out to us excited about the brand. And I think it's always good to take a meeting, even though we're not currently fundraising. And
• 21:41
  The thing that I kept hearing, I guess a year and a half ago now was like customization, growth at all costs. How are you doing these like personalization? That was really sexy and popular at the time. And I think that there's been a total philosophical change around building brand and making like better for you products that aren't necessarily this like sexy VC customization engine.
• 22:05
  And we're seeing that now. I mean, since Crown Affair has launched, I think there's been, I mean, there's been like 10, if not more, new hair care brands that have launched that are really focused. And you know, some of the most successful brands in the category, like Olaplex, for example, like, they like six SKUs, you know, and they're one of the rare ones, I think.
• 22:23
  My entire vision with Crown Affair and then the pitch in particular is like every single product we're making is a hero product. Like we are working with chemists outside of contract manufacturers to truly innovate on this product. This is obviously more from a product perspective than like a brand and larger mission of what we're doing. But, you know...
• 22:45
  this category, people just go to contract manufacturers and they're like, here's 12 shampoos and here's 12 conditioners. And if it's a celebrity line, you know, you kind of just like put a face in a fragrance and call it a day. But for us, it's like, I, part of my ethos is like, I never want to launch anything into the world unless it's truly unique and makes me feel different. Like skew count is not the issue in this category. So yeah,
• 23:07
  A huge part of talking to investors was getting them excited about the way we're changing the narrative around hair care. The first step is the realization that this category has been about styling and color and perfection. Even if there's diversity in casting, it's like all the model's hair is still blown out and the language and terms around it. And for me, it's about building...
• 23:33
  a community around taking care of yourself and ritual and like, it's table stakes that the product is clean, like, you know, and that the product is better for you. I would never want to launch product into the world. That's just like where we don't own the formulas or that, you know, it's not clean. And it's really interesting. I think clean in this category too, which has become a very like, Oh, is it clean? Like, especially in the US, like the FDA regulations are so the bar is so low here. And we only do regulations for our products. And
• 24:02
  That's not a brand pillar. That's a product promise. And I think, you know, with these, with talking to investors, getting them to understand like the long journey of what we're doing and what has happened over the last 10 years with skincare is now the journey we're on that maybe started like a year ago with hair care. You know, it's all very new and it really takes time, I think,
• 24:23
  you know, and the pandemic in a way has been such a catalyst, like you can't run to your salon or you can't run to your hairstylist. And you're like, what am I doing for myself on a weekly basis with a hair mask, for example? Like, how am I slowing down and making this a really beautiful experience? And
• 24:39
  have wash days be something to look forward to instead of like, Oh, I have to wash my hair. This is so annoying. And it's like, it really takes, takes an end right. Like for years, that's how I, that's my perspective and my connection to hair as wellness and hair is a part of my wellbeing. So yeah,
• 24:56
  That's always been the pitch. And I think when investors are like, are you going to be the next this for this or Warby Parker for this? And I'm like, that was 10 years ago. This is what we're doing. Either you're aligned or not. So I also think, and you noted this with the grassroots thing, I think that the best investors invest in founders because they know that like shit will hit the fan. Like there might just be a global pandemic that happens. You might need to pivot your entire business. And that's why it's important to bet on people, not the product at the end of the day. Yeah.
• 25:26
  So I honestly just went into the pitches. There were days that I was taking three calls a day or three meetings a day. And I'm like, who did I say to what? But I think that's why you get so great at this. And either people feel connected to you and what you're doing or not, you know. So interesting. I really love that. Gosh, wow. Something that you reminded me when you were speaking about the product, you know, and the ingredients that are in these standard kind of manufactured products is that thing you have on your website where it shows all the things you
• 25:56
  never thought about this. Like, this is crazy. What are all these things even mean? What are these words? That's a long list. It is. And it is really interesting because like, retinol, hyaluronic acid, like these ingredients have become so normalized in skincare. And we often don't actually know what ingredients are doing to our hair, depending on what you're
• 26:18
  you know, hair is a fiber. It's all about the hydration level. So understanding how much moisture you want in your hair, how much you don't, how you want to apply it, how often you should be washing. I mean, it's, it's a whole universe that I think is really fun to kind of get to know. And Hey, if you choose to do a million treatments or blow dry your hair every day, like do you like, I'm all about balance and finding the thing that makes you feel good. But I do think there's power in like educating and understanding that.
• 26:46
  what something might do, especially like, and I will not bore you with the sulfates situation, but like in at least this country, like we are just addicted to using sulfates in our hair with shampoo and like the bubble and the foam. And it really does end up stripping your hair so much and causing more problems that then companies sell you solutions for, of like how to fix like frizz, for example. But it's like all frizz is, is your hair needing more moisture. So it doesn't like
• 27:13
  reach up to the sky for more moisture. Like if you, and it's the same thing with food. It's like, it's about, it's right. It's not about like deprivation or diet. It's like putting the right things in you. So you feel good and having your relationship to that thing feel really good. And I think that for the way we're approaching hair, that is so much of it. And, you know, as we launch more products, it's, it's, as I said, every product is a hero product. So we're really mindful about the product development process, but like,
• 27:39
  If you're out there and looking for a shampoo, like you should really not be looking. I would recommend a shampoo without sulfates, without pegs. Those are carcinogenic and not great. And more of a cleanser. Think like a Cetaphil or CeraVe, like something that really just like removes debris and build up and nourishes your hair. And, you know, that education isn't out there. So we're really excited to kind of pioneer near that piece. Yeah, totally, totally. Does the Bible, your hair care Bible still float around on the Internet? Is that still out there?
• 28:08
  It is. And we actually did it. We actually have a whole series called rituals with on Crown Affair. Our content platform on the site, our blog, if you will, is called top of mind. Because it's like all the things that are top of mind in life in general, but also like your hair is literally on the top of your head. So we did. And I actually have to update it. I don't think I've updated it since like March. So yeah.
• 28:33
  Please send it my way. I also like shoot me a DM on the internet. I could talk about hair and DMs forever. And truly everyone is so different. And depending on, I mean, I've talked to like Olympic swimmers who like have to wash their hair every day and how they're taking care of their hair. I have girlfriends who wash their hair max, max once every week and a half, you know, and everyone has their own rhythm. Where you live makes a difference. So, yeah.
• 28:57
  Wow. I need to, I'm going to, I'm going to get into your DMs. We're going to discuss this.
• 29:04
  Okay, I really want to talk about your marketing. I really want to talk about the grassroots efforts that you've been doing and especially kind of what you learned in your prior career and brought forward into your go-to-market launch strategy, especially this year, given all the troubles that we've had and, you know, pivoting our original plans. How did you launch and what has your marketing been like since? Yeah.
• 29:29
  Yeah, so I think the most important thing as a marketer is, I'm just going to say people generally, meaning customers, meaning community, meaning...
• 29:40
  Editors, you know, everyone is literally just a person and you have to treat them like people and building up your army of people who believe in you and are excited about what you're building. I mean, as you think about launch, if you're listening and thinking about launching a business, like it is so important to remember that people want to support what they are a part of creating.
• 30:01
  And I think so often, especially as women, we like, and I'm still totally guilty of this, by the way, we like, don't want to share things with the world until they're perfect. And, but people really do want to be a part of that process. So when you do go live, they're so excited to be like, this is awesome. Even if it's just a quick email or a coffee or sending product early, like people get really excited and they root for you long-term. And I think
• 30:27
  The customers and community that you build in year one are the people. And I've seen this with every brand I've worked with. And even though I'm not working with those brands anymore, I see those customers show up. They're still posting. They're still commenting. They're still sharing. You're year one. You're day one. People are your people. And the most important thing that you can do is invest time in them. Just literally time. And whether it's phone calls with customers to understand what they're loving or how they heard about you or how they discovered you...
• 30:56
  you know, launching is a really challenging thing now. Like building a quote direct to consumer brand is not what it meant. I mean, first of all, direct to consumer, I think being omnichannel, especially in beauty as a category is really important. Like you want to meet your customer where he or she is beyond just your site, which is a podcasting conversation for another time in terms of like retail strategy and growth. But, you know,
• 31:21
  it's just so important that you are able to connect with your person from day one. And when you launch something into the world, like they feel excited about this and want to share it with you on your direct channel. So yeah, I'm trying to think, I mean, there's so many elements to launch and like seeding to community and influencers and influential people is a huge one. So they like post about you on launch day and like really making sure your message is tight and you're offering something different. Like,
• 31:51
  I, I had no, like any of us, none of us knew that a pandemic was happening, but like, you know, our entire pillar of counteraffair is actually around time. Like that is the ethos of the brand. It is actually time and the time you take for yourself out of care instead of frustration.
• 32:07
  all of our collateral that we printed months before in our shippers, our copy, like it was all about taking your time and finding your ritual. And then all of a sudden, all people had was time. So that ended up working really well. That worked. Yeah, it ended up falling into place and being again, as I said, like a catalyst for people resonating with the message. But no, I mean, you can't, again, as I was saying, like, in terms of early DTC, you can't just be like, this is now direct to you. And like,
• 32:33
  It's more accessible and it's like, you really have to have an innovation and something different. Um, so yeah, getting the word out there, I think your community is huge. Um, PR is really important. Having a thoughtful PR strategy. I mean, traditional PR has evolved exponentially. I feel like every year, um,
• 32:51
  you know, Instagram and social, whatever the platform is for your product market fit. Like I have a lot of friends who have more Gen Z brands and they like kill it on TikTok. For us with our product market fit, who our customer is, I mean, we have customers, we do have women who are, you know, Gen Z and love this product and are so excited about it. We also have women who are like 70 year old. We have an amazing like 70 year old winemaker in Napa who has like bought this for all her daughters. She loves it every day. Like,
• 33:19
  We have real women who use this product and it's a part of their life. So for us, it's like, how do you get the message out? And I think word of mouth is so important in this category with beauty. And we really did see that spike three months in. We had a lot of buzz and excitement. And then three months in, we were like, oh, wait, people are rebuying the oil. And because hair is genetic, it's like people would tell their sisters or their moms or their friends. Yeah.
• 33:46
  I feel like the three month mark is when we really started to see like it started to spike in terms of people getting super excited. But that was a very big ramble of a launch mess. But I think really thinking about this stuff holistically is important. Like every product, what your message is, how you're telling that story.
• 34:04
  And it's different now. At the time, I was able to have a couple of desk sides with editors. A desk side is when you go meet with them and you educate them on your product. And that was a huge part of some of our launch stories, whether that was business press on places like Forbes or Business Insider, and then Beauty Press, Vogue, everyone in between, business and fashion as well on the business side. Allure has been such an amazing supporter. Yeah.
• 34:29
  Now we're doing Zoom calls. I think building relationships with people. You can't just pitch people randomly being like, this is new, write about it. Building relationships and actually listening to people and hearing what they like on the press side, on the customer side. It's like, that's everything. And I think that's how you build a great brand over time.
• 34:47
  Yeah, that's so interesting. And I was actually going to ask you about your press because you have such incredible press around the launch that I was like, wow, how did she get all this amazing stuff? That's super interesting to have the editor meetings. Did you just called outreach to journalists to be like, hey, let's hop on a call and chat about, you know, this thing that I'm creating and putting out into the world? Or was there more to it?
• 35:07
  Yeah, so I actually didn't have a ton of PR relationships. Like my actual personal circle in my life, I've been with my fiance for seven years. We have a very small friend group. I'm not the person who's meeting people. So this was really the first time that I was like, oh, I have to like, this is exciting. I get to tell this story to journalists. And yeah, I mean, we have a PR team who I actually was our internal PR team at Away. They do our PR now.
• 35:32
  called dispatch. They're amazing. And we just have such a transparent and honest relationship with each other. And there's no ego about anything. And like, who tells the story, who makes the relationship, which I think is so beautiful. I think sometimes weekly PR calls with an agency can be like so much pressure. Like,
• 35:51
  the expectation to deliver like a certain number of articles or a certain number of thing. I, you know, again, and this goes back to the investor thing, it's a partnership and how you build partnerships is everything. So yeah, I mean, we truly, it was just pitching. I mean, no one, I'm getting slightly older, but you know, and people could see my background and be like, oh, this girl worked at so-and-so, but it was all new. You know, I don't come from traditional beauty for me. This has just been like,
• 36:18
  I telling my story as another woman with my own hair journey, I think it's a little different than maybe what they've been getting for years of celebrity lines, professional lines, really being about the styling. I think that this was refreshing. And because of that, we were able to have people authentically write about this story, which was so exciting to see. I really didn't know what was going to happen on launch day. So it was cool to see all of that come out. And again, so many people connect with the vision of what we're building.
• 36:46
  Yeah, totally. Absolutely. Oh, so exciting. What does the future look like? What's happening next? I mean, month by month for everything in life. You know, the joke, I actually like postponed my wedding this year. And I feel like everyone in my life is like, what's with the wedding? I'm like, month by month, like even...
• 37:06
  Even with the business, I mean, we definitely, I have a very clear like one year, three year, five year, 10 year vision for what Crown Affair could become. But the truth is, is like the playbook that has worked for all of these other brands, it's changed. Like the world has changed. How people discover product has changed. How people buy product has changed. And we're really like navigating it in real time. I think it's always helpful if like you are the customer of the product you're making. And my team is very much that way too, because...
• 37:34
  We always want to be nimble. We always want to be where we need to be for our customer and just keep diving in on that relationship. I think the new universe of depth
• 37:46
  And having people be excited about every product launch. We're in a category that does have repeat purchase. That's powerful. We're not selling mattresses or suitcases. I mean, you can buy a couple of mattresses and a couple of suitcases, but this is a lifelong journey with our customer. And I think for us, it's about building that over time. And then lots more formula and in-shower products next year, which is so exciting. We'll also be shipping. We've been getting a lot of international shipping requests.
• 38:14
  Right now we ship through some of our partners. We were on Goop, which is great. We work with a couple of partners in Canada. We're actually in Hong Kong now with Lane Crawford. So it's cool to be in China, but definitely just expanding, which is so exciting. Yeah. So exciting. Oh my gosh. I'll be cheering from the sidelines. What advice do you have for women who have a big idea and want to launch their own thing? Wow.
• 38:43
  just start is like probably the best advice. As I said, even whether it's like a Google doc or a couple samples, like it's really scary. Um, I have a leadership coach and she always says this and she's really conditioned me. She's like, you're so afraid of having like an ugly baby is what she calls it, which sounds horrible. And I, it's probably not appropriate to say, but like, it's kind of scary putting a thing out into the world when it's not finished. And I think
• 39:06
  Just being like, I have this idea, whether it's an app or a platform or community or a physical product or literally any idea you have, like write it down and get feedback on it and take the feedback with a grain of salt. But I think you'll know, like that was actually a big indicator that I didn't touch on earlier, but like.
• 39:24
  People kept coming after I talked to somebody about hair. They would like text me four weeks or five weeks later being like, so I'm still thinking about this and blah, blah, blah. And I think when people show genuine curiosity, that's when you know you're on to something. And then maybe that's the flag to be like, hey, it's time to.
• 39:40
  raise capital or don't raise capital or like, you know, invest in yourself in this way. The other advice that I have is like, write stuff down. There's that Joan Didion quote, that's like, I don't know what I think until I write it. And this has become a huge new habit for me.
• 39:57
  For a few years now, I've been doing like the gratitude five minute journal, which I love. It's a great journal and it's really easy and keeps you accountable. But I have friends of mine, actually. Yeah, really? I'm obsessed with the five minute journal. I'm going to tell them. Yeah.
• 40:13
  We spoke about it. I'm seeing them this week, actually. Oh, amazing. Okay. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not there. I mean, I'm not technically an ambassador, but like I talk about it all the time and I think I've gotten like dozens of people to buy it. It's
• 40:28
  I write morning pages every morning and it's scary to be honest with yourself, but being like, this is what I want and physically writing it out. It's pretty wild when you look back, even like I was looking at some of my journals from September. We're now in November and like a lot of the stuff has come true or a lot of the things that I might have been concerned about are no longer concerns are no longer fears. So I'm
• 40:50
  That has been a very cathartic process for me that I think if you have a dream and you're a little bit afraid to go forward, it's like a good place to start. And like no one's judging you. No one's going to read it. Just like start and go for it. Yeah, that's so important. I'm also someone that wants to get more into writing things down and putting those thoughts on paper. There's something so therapeutic, I think, about writing and something I'm definitely wanting to focus more time on. So that's really interesting you said that.
• 41:18
  Okay, we are up to the six quick questions part of the episode. Question number one is what's your why? My why is making people feel different about themselves. I love putting things into the world, whether it's with Crown Affair or just in my personal life. That changes the way people identify about how they move through the world. That is like my mission in everything I've ever done.
• 41:46
  Love that. So powerful. Question number two is what's been the number one marketing moment that's made your business pop? Wow. It's so hard to pick one, to be honest with you. I would say like,
• 42:02
  people with real communities, if you want to call them influencers, like they work. Like we've had people post and we'll see like a hundred orders. Oh, I have a really good one though. New York Mag wrote an amazing piece on our hair towel and how it makes your hair, because I won't get into it now, but the way that it actually makes, absorbs water from your hair
• 42:20
  It air dries like a Haim sister meets like a master Gabriella is literally what they said. And I think we sold like 100 hair towels in like 20 minutes. It was crazy. So that was cool to see too. Yeah. People with opinions and voices who, you know, proof is really powerful. Wow. I love that for you. That sounds amazing.
• 42:40
  You're like, best 20 minutes of my life happening right now. I was like refreshing Shopify. I'm like, is this broken? What's happening now? Turning up the sound on your phone. You're like, yep, let's hear it. Question number three is where do you hang out to get smarter? And that's around what you're listening to, what you're reading, what communities you're part of, that kind of thing.
• 43:02
  I listen to a lot of podcasts. My favorite podcast is called Poetry Unbound and it's led by a theologian named Padraig Otuma. And he reads two poems a week and unpacks them. And it just puts me into like,
• 43:18
  a space. Like I literally will start when I'm reading something, I hear it in his voice. And there's honestly so few people where that really happens, where you actually start to kind of take their voice. And that to me is the best. I also love like Adam Grant, Seth Godin. I mean, a lot of marketing,
• 43:35
  leaders. I read their daily newsletters. It always sparks something, even if it's not in the moment, like something will happen in my life, maybe a few months later. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, Seth said that he was right. Or Adam Grant is like, truly an incredible professor educator around, you know, building team culture, which I think applies to our personal lives as well.
• 43:58
  Mm hmm. Totally. I'm going to subscribe to both of those later. Question number four is how do you win the day? And that's really honing in on your rituals, which I know we've touched on, but let's circle back.
• 44:10
  A good winning the day is definitely doing my morning pages and my five minute journal. Like I feel really complete when I put my five minute journal away at night and like big, big win. If I get a bath and dinner is made by my, by my fiance, like that to me, it's like dream day, which we've been getting a lot of in quarantine. So much more found time together, which is a total dream.
• 44:33
  Yep, totally. Absolutely. I love a good bath. I'm really into lavendorial bath, relaxing. I'm not a long person bath though. I'm like a really short person bath. I'm like 15 minutes in and out, but like that 15 minutes is bliss.
• 44:48
  I love that for you. No, I think there's like a stigma, like you have to be in the bath for 45 minutes. There's something really powerful, just like phone in the other room, getting in a warm bath. It just resets you in a really nice way. My best ideas come in the bath. So like, I also have to do it because like, that is where the magic comes. So that's where the magic happens. Love that. Yeah. Question number five is if you only had a thousand dollars left in your business bank account, where would you spend it?
• 45:17
  I probably have to pay back an investor a thousand dollars. This is all I have. One thousand dollars. Thank you for all of your contributions. I mean, if that was where I had to be really mindful about allocating my spend, I'd say,
• 45:35
  I would invest it in content creation. I think like the legacy of what that can be and how it gets re-shared. I think sometimes we forget in this world of paid marketing that just like doing good content can be really shareable. You know, the metric of like how many people have saved something down is really powerful and not always measured. So I would probably say with content.
• 46:00
  Yeah, I mean, you've got total proof with your hair Bible. People still want that. I still want that. Exactly. That doesn't cost $1,000. That costs me time. Okay, question number six. Last question is how do you deal with failure? And that can be around a personal experience or just your general mindset and approach.
• 46:21
  You know, I'm not good with failure. I don't think anyone is by nature in society. It's really hard. Practicing that like failure is good. And I think like, you've been listening to the podcast that I mentioned, like just conditioning yourself to be like, oh, this is a part of the journey. And I talk about this a lot. I have a really good friend who's worked at Pixar for like 15 years. And he has an amazing talk on like the concept of awe.
• 46:49
  And like, that is truly the concept that they really like hone in on, I think, at Pixar and the work that he does as an animator. But we talk about like that journey piece and how we don't measure the journey a lot. And I'll have to send you his talk. I think he has a video on it. But I think trying to create structures like the journaling, like the bath, where you can like actually pause and be like, this is a part of it, you know, and not so focus on the end goal.
• 47:15
  I also think I was talking to, I have a group kind of artist way chat on Tuesday nights, which with 15 women, and that's a huge community that I look to. And, you know, I don't know, I think just like being honest with yourself, it really does help you kind of get through.
• 47:33
  those tough moments, you know, and it's okay. It's normal. You just have to be like honest about it. It's not easy. And being honest about that, it's not easy as everything, you know? Totally. Totally. Oh, this was so fun. So fun. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast and share your incredible journey and all the cool things you're working on. I'm just so thrilled to have had this chat.
• 47:56
  Thank you so much for having me. I wish we had a whole other hour to talk about you because I'm sure you have so many learnings from chatting with all of these founders. Like the dot connection is beautiful. So thank you for having me on. It's been wonderful.
• 48:14
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 48:38
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 49:01
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.
• 49:17
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 49:42
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 50:04
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.