Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Respected District Attorney Vanishes During Weekend Road Trip

Transcript

Respected District Attorney Vanishes During Weekend Road Trip · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. He did it all. He
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: prosecuted rapes, sex assaults, kidnaps, murders, and he did it well.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: A dad, a husband. So what happened to renowned attorney
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Ray greek Herd crime stories with Nancy Grace. Let's just
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: start at the beginning. Take a listen to this. Initially,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: you know, Patty called our office that night and reported
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: that Ray had gone to she thought to the Louisburg
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: area to do some shopping antique shopping and stuff, and
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: he hadn't returned home yet. Well, initially we thought maybe
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: his car broke down something of that nature, that he
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: decided to stay overnight. He wasn't feeling well, so we
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: went down and not we went down, but we initiated
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: some phone calls and stuff to state police, to Louisburg Police,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: to Milton State Police, you know, telling him, hey, the
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Center County disc attorney has not had has not come
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: home yet. We think he was in the Louisburg area
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: earlier today's where he was supposedly going, and they initiated
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: some searches down there. So how does he seemingly just
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: drop off the map? A well known prosecuting attorney in
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: good standing there in the bar, joining me an ulstar
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: panel to try it makes sense of the disappearance of
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Ray Greek Car Joining me. Bob buner Or, former Montour
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: County District Attorney, former president of the Pennsylvania District Attorney's Office,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: friend and very close colleague of the victim. Doctor Sherry
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Swords joining us. For instance, psychologists specializing in criminal behavior
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: at panther mitigation dot com. And she is the author
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology intersect. Boy
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: do we need her. Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant in
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Haven Police Department, Senior lecturer and director of the Center
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: for Advanced Policing with me right now, and let's go
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: to her first. Rebecca Knight joining us her podcast, Final
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Argument The Disappearance of District Attorney Ray Greekar and you
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: can also find her at Ray Greek dot com. Rebecca Knight,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: let's just start at the beginning. There are a lot
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: of questions, a lot of speculations surrounding the disappearance of
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Ray Greek are really in the prime of his life,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: at the height of his legal career. But let's start
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: at the beginning. You know, Rebecca, when cases falter and
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: they go so called cold. That's what you do. You
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: start at the beginning, the day the person disappeared, Where
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: they were last seen, was the home ransacked, was the
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: car wrecked? All of the elementary building blocks that start
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: an investigation. And that's where we're starting right now in
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the unusual disappearance of Greek Car. Back to you, Rebecca Knight,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: tell me about the day he goes missing. The day
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Ray greek Car went missing, they didn't find his car
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: for thirty six hours, and one of the things I
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: wanted to look at was what was happening during those
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: thirty six hours before the police finally found his car. Okay,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: pause right there. I hate to interrupt, Rebecca, but when
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I say start at the beginning, I mean really the beginning,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: not thirty six hours after the beginning. Now, you, being
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: such an incredible investigative writer and reporter, are going straight
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: to the heart of the matter. But for those of
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: us lud eyes that like to start with who, what where? Hawaiian? When?
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: What day did he go missing? April fifteen, two thousand
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: and five, Tax Day. That's how I always remember the
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: day that Ray Greencarr went missing. It was Tax day.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: And let me ask you this, Rebecca Knight, what time
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: of the day was he last known to be alive
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: or was seen? You can time that based on a
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: phone call, a message, a text, a surveillance video at
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the grocery store, anything. He made a phone call to
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: his girlfriend, Patty Fornicola, from his county issued telephone at
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: around eleven fifteen that morning on Friday, April fifteenth, And
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: based on that phone call to his then girlfriend, where
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: was he and what was he doing? Ray Greekar was
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: traveling east one ninety two in Pennsylvania. He was going
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: through an area called Brush Valley in a very very
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: rural area of Pennsylvania. He was in his Mini Cooper,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: his red and white Mini Cooper, and he was traveling
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: down one ninety two on his way to Louisburg, Pennsylvania.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Why was he going to Louisbourg, Well, no one knows
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: why he was going to Lewisburg, but we do know
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: that he had been to Louisbourg many, many times before.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Very very interesting to me, guys. Joining me is reporter
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Rebecca Knight, and she is a creator of a podcast,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Final Argument, The Disappearance of District Attorney Ray Greekar and
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: you can find at Ray Greekar dot com. You know,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I want to go to you, Bob Buner, a former
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: district attorney passed president of the DA's associate And that's
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: not easy to attain, but more important as it relates
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: to this moment, friend and colleague of Ray Greekar. You know, Bob,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: how far was his home from? Was it Lewisburg where
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: he was traveling or listen, It's approximately from bilf On
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: the county seat of Center County where he was DA
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: to Louisbourg, approximately sixty miles, basically going over mountains and
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: forests between the two communities. And hold on, hold on,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: hold on, because I'm going very slowly. And Bob, I
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: don't know how you prosecuted all your cases, but I
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: can tell you this. When the medical examiners saw me
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: pulling up and my beat up Honda, I'm sure they
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: all wanted to hide beneath their chairs because I would
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: have to take apart every single sentence of their Latin
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: jargon no offense shorts but to make sense that. So
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: let me just understand what you just said. So very often,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: according to Rebecca Knight, and for no apparent reason Ray
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Greekr would travel sixty miles through forest and over a
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: mountain to get to is it lewis Burger, Lewiston, Lewisburg?
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Do we have any idea because, for instance, when I
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: was living in Atlanta, I would very often, if someone
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: could pull up my navigation system, drive ninety miles south
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: on the interstate. Why because I was going to my hometown.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I'd make it to check on my parents or my
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: parents home. And there was a reason for that. But
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I find this very interesting. Why is Ray Greekr traveling
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: over a mountain three four or sixty miles could be
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: two hours, depending on the mountain. Why what was in
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Lewisburg actually antique shops? Nancy? There are several well known
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: antique places that are kind of co and Ray had
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: an interest in certain types of specially antique cameras, so
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: he would go to a pub. Okay, stop, stop everything.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I'm always surprised, pleasantly and thrilled when I learned something
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I haven't already gleaned from my research and investigation. I
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: knew he was into antiquing, I did not know that
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: specialty time stories with Nancy Grace. This is opening up
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: a whole plevera of possibilities for me, Bob inga, because
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize he was that deep into the antiquing world.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: And you know how they haggle over prices, and if
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: you're really into something like some vintage camera from nineteen whatever,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: you could go down all sorts of rabbit holes trying
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: to get that and come in contact with a lot
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: of people that could be scamming you. That's true. I
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: think he had a pretty sophisticated knowledge of anti cameras,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: the polaroids, and the codacts of the day, and so
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know that he could be scammed because he
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: was pretty astute in things involving his interest in antiques. Bob,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I mean someone, for instance, one thing I cover a lot.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I even write about it in my knee book, Don't
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Be a Victim PS. All the money goes to National
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Center Missing Exported Children, if you want to pick it up, Bob.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: But about buying or doing business online, because I've covered
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: so many cases where people go to, for instance, a
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: marketplace online and then they show up across town to
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: get the item and bam, they get killed and rob
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: raped whole shebang. So I'm not saying he's not astute.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that. I'm saying there's a possibility he was
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: led down a rabbit hole thinking he was going to
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: get X and when they got there, all he ended
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: up getting was the wrong end of a gun barrel. Yeah.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: What we know, Nancy, is that approximately two pm on
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: April fifteenth, he had parked his mini Morris Cooper by
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the river bridge that goes over the Susquehanna River into Louisbourg. Okay,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Bobby and her another thing. You know, I know you
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: hate the interruptions because you're used to having control over
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that whole courtroom and nobody dares interrupt your opening your clothing, right,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: But you know they did not teach me shorthand in
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: law school. So slow ady, al buddy, Okay, two fifteen pm,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: April fifteen, Go ahead, I've gotten that far. He is
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: standing on a sidewalk outside as many Morris Cooper. Three
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: individuals working in a museum right across the street from
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: where he had parked his car observed him, and their
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: statements to the police indicated that it appeared to them
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: that he was waiting for someone, and in fact had
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: actually moved his car a couple of spaces away from
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: where it initially parked, as if to make a parking
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: spot available for someone else. And that's what we turned
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: in here. Yeah, yes, Rebecca, I was just going to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: come to you. Do we know who he was meeting. Well,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: one of my witnesses that I interviewed said, and I'm
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: going to pick up the scene here where Bob Jess
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: talked about him being in that park across the street
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: from the museum. One of my witnesses, and I spoke
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: with her several times, and she told the police this
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: that it looked like She said, he looked like he
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: was on a cell phone, walking back and forth and
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: gesturing with his arms, sometimes wildly. In other words, what's
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: going on? When I got the copy of the case file,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I looked at his cell phone records for his county
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: issued cell phone, and there were no other numbers on there,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: of course, that he had made that day, which tells
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: me that this woman may have seen him using a
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: burner phone. Okay, because I can phone stop again, Rebecca Knight,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: did you speak to the witness face to face? Yes?
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: I did you looked in their faces they were telling
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: you this. Most everyone I talked to I would go
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: to see them because I have to look at people
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: in the eye. I've got to see their faces because,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: as you know, Bobyner, all your years as the Montour
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: County District Attorney, a lot of times and I know
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: other people will mark this, don't care. You can tell
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: when somebody's lying. Oh absolutely, Now I find that really
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: very interesting because I mean doctor Sherry Schwartz forensics psychologists
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: specializing in criminal behavior defense attorney would argue to a
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: jury just because it would have thought the person was
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: on their phone walking back and forth. Gesticulating does in
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: no way mean a burner phone. But you know what,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I think a jury would disagree. And when someone is
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: wildly gesticulating, I am moving their hands or arms around
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: as they speak or not speak. Moving their hands and
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: arms around. That tells me they were communicating with someone
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: and they were agitated. So we've got him at two
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: fifteen pm the day he goes missing and taking in
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: another town an hour and a half, two hours away,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: angry or upset and gesticulating. That tells me a lot
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: that has never come to light on a national platform
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: to my knowledge, Rebecca and Bob, what do you make
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: of at Sherry? This is very important, especially if the
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: witnesses deemed credible. Right if a jury here's this witness
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: testify and witnesses are generally truth telling, if they have
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: no vested interest in the outcome of a case, then
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: this is very important information, you know. And he was
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: noticeable clearly, not just because of the behavior, but as
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Rebecca points out in her podcast, the car was very rare, right,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: so if he's near the car, people might notice him.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: And then if he's having this conversation, I mean we
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: all sort of engage in that little bit of voyeurism
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: in public. Right when you see somebody flailing their arms
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: and maybe you can even hear them, but they appear agitated,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: you think, oh, they're having an argument with somebody, right,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: So this is observable behavior that indicates that something's up
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: with Ray Greek car and so, and it's troubling if
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: there's no evidence of that call at that time right
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: on exactly those Rebecca, those phone records, and they're not
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: there no other calls. Guys, take a listen again to
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the first lead investigator on the case. This is Darryl
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Zakane and he's speaking to penline dot com. Listen, are
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: the license plate for it? You know, and basically we
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: started a missing person's report, you know, look for this gentleman.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: When I got in in the morning, it was the
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: first I had heard about it. Is when I got
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to work that morning and the chief and I he
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: told me about it and said, come on, let's go
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: talk to Patty. And from there we went up to
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: see Patty and things just progressed with them where you know,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: we started a series of different searches over of course
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: a period of time. Then you know, on what we
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: were going to do. I think initially we're holding out
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: hope that you know that Ray had just gott iil
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: had decided to stay overnight to do some more shopping
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: and his cell phone went dead or something and he
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: didn't get hold of Patty and he would show up
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: in the morning and stuff. So some confusion about the
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: night before, but that in no way in the gates
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: where he was at two fifteen pm the day he's
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: last seen a lot. But listen to our friend Lester
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Holt at Dateline NBC. When Ray Greekar disappeared in April
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: two thousand and five. He had everything to live for.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: He'd learned how to kick back a bit outside of
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the office. The Ray I knew great sense of humor.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: You had to know him to see it. Sometimes it
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: was dry, it was compassionate, just a wonderful person. Ray
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and girlfriend Patty loved to take long drives together and
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: go antiquing. We mostly bought dishes because they were small.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: The house is small, so we had to stick to
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: small things, but dishes or books. Ray was an avid reader.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Ray had served as District attorney of Center County for
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: nearly twenty years, and he had a sterling reputation. Bob
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: being her longtime friend and colleague of Ray. Greek car.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: How does the name Jerry Sandusky fit into this scenario.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: I think it's a very much of in one sense,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: a red herring Nancy, because what happened in two eleven,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky was arrested for child abuse and the world
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: media descended into Center County and when they got there,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: they discovered, hey, there's a missing district attorney from two
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: thousand and five, who back in nineteen ninety eight did
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: investigate a charge of child abuse against Jerry Sandusky, but
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: felt there was not enough information or evidence to have
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: an arrest made. So naturally people started speculating, well, the
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky case and the disappearance of Ray Greek are
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: somehow connected. I have never seen that connection, and I
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: have studied this case for years Prime Stories with Nancy Grace,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So I guess the connection straight out to renowned investigator,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Lisa M. Daddio, former lieutenant you have in police senior lecturer,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I guess the theory regarding the famed or let me
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: say infamous coach Jerry Sanduski, the theory would be that
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Ray greekar knew about the child molestation, well the molestation charges,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and did nothing, and that someone came and sought revenge
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: on him. I guess that would be the working theory. Yeah,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you can make that stretch. For me,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: it seems a little bizarre strange to make that type
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: of connection. If he had reviewed something, you know, several
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: years prior and had declined prosecution for whatever reason, why
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: is this now coming up years later when he disappears.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: You know, That's something I've argued to juries many, many times,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Lisa Daddio, because very often a defense attorney or really
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: someone that hasn't tried a lot of cases or investigated
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: a lot. They actually believe movie scripts and books and novels.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: They think that it's very common for there to be
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: revenge killings. Well maybe in the mafia. Maybe in the mafia, Okay,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: definitely in the mafia there are revenge killings. But in
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: real life, I mean, think this thing through. If you
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: were angry because Jerry Sandusky raped your son or molested
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: your child, why not kill Jerry Sandusky? Why go dig
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: up ray Greekar and the home he was he had
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: there and follow him when he's antiquing and kill him
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: and dispose of his body. That that doesn't make sense.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Why not kill Sandusky? Well that yeah, it doesn't investigation.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: What is this, Rebecca or Lisa? This is Rebecca? Okay,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: go ahead. Well I didn't think that this. First of all,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: I think he was murdered. I think it was a
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: professional hit. I think that it was not a revenge killing.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: But what I do think and I think that the
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: evidence from the case file, together with all of the
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: interviews I did through the years and talked with hundreds
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: of people, and some people that the police never even
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: talked to was that I put together a picture of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: merch for me, and I believe that Ray Greecar was
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: working on the biggest case of his life. I think
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: he was getting ready to charge Jerry Sandusky, penn State
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: University and the Second Mile Charity when he disappeared. That's
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: what my podcast is about, you know, Rebecca Night. I've
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: always argued there is no coincidence in criminal law right
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: his very in depth investigation, And it must be said
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: about Ray Greekcar. You don't win jury trials because you
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: go in and show both the jury. Unless you're Johnny Cochran,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: you usually win jury trials. And this is an old thing,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: but it's true. It's ninety nine percent perspiration one inspiration.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: That is how you win or succeed at anything. With
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: the proper preparation, if you're willing to put in the time,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: you will most likely succeed. Would you agree, Bob Uner
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: that gree Car had a reputation of literally crossing every tay,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: dotting every eye now never unprepared when he went into court, Nancy,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Ray gree Car was the most meticulous prosecutor probably in
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: the entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. He left no detail on examined.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: He always asked law enforcement officials in the case the
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: next question, and he anticipated not just his direct examination,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: but what would be subjects on cross examination, prepared his
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: witnesses at great length. So, yes, that was the Ray
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: gree Car that I know, and I think his reputation
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: was sterling in that regard. Preparation was the key to him.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: He was something Bob, Yes, I gotta tell you something,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: and I've told it to many many a litigation class.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: You have to think about not only what you're going
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: to do, but what they're going to do and how
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: you're going to counter it. You have to prepare as
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: a prosecutor not only your case, but you have to
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: anticipate and prepare your attack on the defense case. And
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: you're just saying that, I'm imagining all the man hours
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: he put into preparing these cases. That's exactly right. So, Bob,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: can you imagine the irritation of the Sandusky team when
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: they've got this meticulous prosecutor digging up every possible witness,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: leaving no stone unturned and finding out a lot of
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: things they wish you didn't know. Well, I think that's
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: one of the things that is somewhat unknown how far
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: in the case file Ray was getting. He was very
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: frustrated back in nineteen ninety eight when a young child
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: had been in a shower with Sandusky and he went
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: home with wet hair and the mother inquired what happened,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: and the child told her mother, who then called the police,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: and Ray, Greekar and the state college and university police
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: tried to set a trap for Sandusky, but it didn't work. So,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: knowing Ray, that would have been incredibly frustrating, and he
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: would have worked to figure out a way to do
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: more investigating and find some of the areas where Sandusky
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: would be involved with children and explore that. And one
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: was called the Second Mile, a charity Sandusky had started
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: that was ostensibly to design for children from single family
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: homes to be placed in special programs or go to
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: special events to help them improve their lives. So we
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: now know that that was a cover for Sandusky, so
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: it was table. Let me clarify the argument that many
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: people have made that greek Car was shot out of
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: revenge because he did not go forward the Sandusky investigation
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: is the furthest thing from the truth that he was
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: working to sting Sandusky would you agree, Yes, Nancy, I
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: would agree with that, and I think I don't see
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: that anybody connected with the victims of Sandusky would have
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: had any revenge factor at Grant greek Car. First of all,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: many of them were young, and in two thousand and five,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: hardly any would have even reached their eighteenth birthday. Absolutely correct.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: So I want to just clarify that for all of
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: the haters out there that have attacked greet Car for
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: not pursuing Sandusky, he was, in fact pursuing Sandusky like
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: a bat out of hell. Take a listen now to
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: our cut four. This is reporter Geary Centersen w j ACTV.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Almost a decade later, many here still remember when they
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: first heard. I got a call. I was actually up
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: in State College at a breakfast and I called that
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: morning and Sheriff Denny Now came in and handed me
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: a note that said Ray greek Car's messy, and I
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: looked up at him and he said, I'm not kidding,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: And so it began April fifteenth, two thousand and five.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I thought something bad happened to him, because Ray was
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: a very, if you will quote, predictable individual, long time
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Center County District attorney Great Greekar and greek Car was
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: an exceptional prosecutor. I spent thirty five years in government
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: and worked around hundreds of attorneys, and he was the
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: best trial attorney I ever worked. Becomes a missing person
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: and eventually a worldwide mystery case. Anyone involved in this
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: case has a theory. My secretary has a theory. I'm
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: sure you have a theory. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Theories series series. It sounds like reading the tea leaves,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: which most people don't believe in. But these theories are
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: founded in reality, including a persistence and trying to catch
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: child molester renowned coach Jerry Sandusky. Now take a listen
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: now to my friend Jenekassaris with me at Cheln what
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: happened to Ray Grey Carr? Straight out to Jenkassaris, Jane,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: what's the latest, Nancy. The latest is that there have
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: been no suspected sightings of Ray gree Car since he vanished,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: since he went missing. But the minute people think they
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: see him, he's gone. So the question is, could this man,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: this elective district attorney, still be alive around the country somewhere,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: taken on a new identity, or is he the victim
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: of a homicide or even a suicide. Back to you,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Bob buner Or, former prosecutor, a longtime friend of Ray
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: greek Car. I've never believed the suicide or the living
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: under a false name theory. Now, Olivia and Eaton John's boyfriend. Yeah,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I think he's alive in Mexico, wearing a floppy hat
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: and having a margarite right now, Ray Greecar, No, there's
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: no reason he would assume a new identity, nor would
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: he commit suicide. You're exactly right, Nancy. First of all,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the idea that he walked away, he could have done
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: the rest of two thousand and five, not shown up
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: at the office at all, and still collected his paycheck.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: And at the end of two thousand and five, with
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: his retirement, he was going to get a huge pension
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: again never touched. The FBI examined his finances for three
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: years prior to when he went missing. They can only
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: not account for fifteen thousand dollars over three years, or
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: one hundred bucks a week, and none of his bank accounts,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: none of his credit cards have been touched since April fifteen,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: two thousand and five, So how he would be able
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: to do all these things that these theorists have is
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: really preposterous. And secondly, with suicide. Ray was fifty nine
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: years old, in good physical and mental health. He had
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: plans for retirement. We spoke about his plans to travel
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: the national parks with his girlfriend Patty for Nicola. He
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: wanted to see his daughter Laura out in the Seattle,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Washington area. This is a guy that had a plan
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: for his future, with no known stressors in his life
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and a healthy pension to take care of himself well.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Not only was he renowned as a prosecutor. Why would
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: you leave your family or commit suicide leaving them behind
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: in the dust. Let's cut forward to our cut two.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Lester Holt at Dateline NBC. Often,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I would say three to four times a week. We
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: were in pretty regular contact. In that spring of two
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: thousand and five, Ray was fifty nine, just eight months
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: away from retirement, and he was ready for it. He
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: was already starting to cut back on his workload, already
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: starting to cut back on his workload other than the
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: staying he was planning on famed coach Jerry Sandusky. Take
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: a listen again to our cut one. This is Lester Holt.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: He was the district attorney in Pennsylvania Center County, working
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: in the postcard pretty town of bellefont penn State is
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: just down the road. It's a powerful presence in this
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: central Pennsylvania neighborhood. Back in April two thousand and five,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Ray Greekar had served a better part of five terms
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: and wrecked up a stellar reputation. But it's the nature
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: of the job that you do difficult things, you make
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: difficult choices. He was the most serious prosecutor I've ever met.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Bob Buhner was Ray's friend. He's the DA in neighboring
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Montour County. He met Ray Greecar almost two decades ago,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: and over the years the two traded shop talk whenever
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: they could. Did he go with his gut? Did he
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: shoot from the hip or was he like Hume? To
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: all the right buttons and then get to the answer.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: He was the guy that always had the next question,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: what about this? Did you consider that? He was the
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: most serious guy, most ethical guy. To Lisa Daddyo for
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: a police lieutenant in Haven, PD, Senior lecturer, Lisa, it
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: has happened in the past where prosecutors have been killed
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: because of what they're doing in court. It's more often
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: that a prosecutor like what happened to me, and we'll
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: get your tire slid or your windows broken in your car,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: maybe your mailbox knocked down or your door kicked in
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: during a very heated trial. That happens. But killing a
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: prosecutor or killing a cup an investigator, it doesn't happen
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: a lot. But it does happen. Yeah, it does happen,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: and you know, we can't ignore it that. Oh, it's
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: so rare, it's impossible it does happen, and so especially
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: with the fact that he was working on this incredibly
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: high profile case. He had previously worked on high profile cases,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: got convictions, his reputation is just unbelievable that it's possible
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: that he was murdered by either somebody connected to a
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: previous case or something to do with Sandusky. Well do
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: you think, Rebecca Night, I mean, you're the one that
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: has created this podcast, asked final argument the disappearance a
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: district attorney Ray Greekar, What do you think? My theory
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: is that Ray Greekar was working on building a case
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: against Jerry Sandusky Penn State University and the Second Mile Charity,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: and that he got too close and he found out
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: too much and he was about ready to charge because
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Ray Gricard didn't charge cases unless he had what he
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: called the shot through the heart of the wild war.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: This is what I was told by one of his
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: colleagues and tears. And another thing, a former district attorney
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: who was a longtime friend and colleague mister Greekar, told
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: me that about a year before Ray Greekar went missing,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: he and Ray Gricar were having lunch in State College
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: and after lunch they went for a walk down the
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: street and Greekar pointed out a man up ahead and
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: he said, you see that guy up there, and this
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: other gentleman said yeah, what so what he said, that's
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky and he said, oh, yeah, the coach. He said, yeah,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: he's also a gd pedophile and I'm going to put
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: him away if it's the last thing I do. That
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: was a year before he went missing. And this was
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: told to me by a seasoned prosecutor who is a
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: new Ray Greecar for decades, and we're friends. So by
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: being or what about it, what do you think? I
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: actually have a different take on things I believe that
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Ray Greekar had prosecuted a member of the Hells Angels
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: chapter of Westchester County, New York, who had been in
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: federal prison with a twenty years sentence, but after five
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: years was miraculously released from prison and ended up in
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: a very remote part of Center County. So we clearly
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: witnessed protection program. And this Hell's Angel biker had viciously
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: assaulted a farmer out in the rural area of Center County,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: prosecuted him, convicted him, and I believe he was the
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: person who led the revenge. We know that the US
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: marshals in the FBI reached out to Ray Greekar asking
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: him for leniency because this Hell's Angel man had done
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: some favors for the federal government and helped convict other
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: motorcycle bikers, and I believe that that's the person who
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: was involved in ordering the hit on Ray Greekar. If
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you know or think you know any information regarding the
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: disappearance a family man and prosecutor Ray Greekar, please call
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: eight one four six nine six six one hundred repeat
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: eight one four six nine six six one hundred. Nancy
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,