Latest / The Front / A photographer risked his life for this shot. One media outlet won’t pay

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A photographer risked his life for this shot. One media outlet won’t pay · The Front

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: It's Monday May four, twenty twenty six. Jewish Australians will
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: give emotional testimony about the Bondai Beach massacre and racism
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: when the Royal Commission into Anti Semitism and Social Cohesion
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: starts public hearings on Monday morning. ABC superstar Sarah Ferguson
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: asked her bosses for urgent permission to get an executive
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: producer credit on an animal rights documentary after it was
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: accepted into the Sundance Film Festival. The doco was funded
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: by an activist group that campaigned for labor and the Greens.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Those stories alive right now at the Australian dot com au,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: and so is Steve Jackson's mediate diary today. A war
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: over copyright where the Daily Mail are not the villains
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: for a change, a surprise higher Network seven and a
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: new twist in the King versus Alan Jones. Jack O's
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: here in just a moment, Steve, You've been having chips
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: at various news organizations recently for not paying for photographs
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  Speaker 1: that they use. For most people in business, this would
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  Speaker 1: seem extremely odd that there is a way in media
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  Speaker 1: to use a product that you don't pay for. How
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  Speaker 1: does this actually happen.
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  Speaker 2: Well, nine times out of ten it's the old expression
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  Speaker 2: is it's better to beg for forgiveness and ask for permission.
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  Speaker 2: So quite often you see media outlets they take a
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  Speaker 2: picture from here, steal it from there and hope that
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  Speaker 2: no one notices. And if people go, hey, hang on,
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  Speaker 2: that's our picture, then you pay. Now. With the rise
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  Speaker 2: of social media and images getting thrown around there quite
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  Speaker 2: often is this mentality in the heat of the battle
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  Speaker 2: hates online Now it's in the public domain. Of course,
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  Speaker 2: that isn't true. There are still copyrights holders. A lot
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  Speaker 2: of media let's spend a lot of money, not as
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  Speaker 2: much as they used to, but a lot of money
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  Speaker 2: on getting exclusive images to sell their product. So what
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  Speaker 2: we've seen again and again is outlets, and it's surprising
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  Speaker 2: which ones are doing it, saying we're not paying, We're
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  Speaker 2: going to take your photo, we're going to put it
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  Speaker 2: on our website, We're going to try to get people
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  Speaker 2: to subscribe to our website off your photo, and when
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  Speaker 2: you send us an invoice, we're gonna go Nana. All's
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  Speaker 2: fair and love and more.
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  Speaker 1: Editors when they're thinking first about the audience, which is
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  Speaker 1: of course what we should be doing. Is that, well,
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  Speaker 1: what's best for the audience. They need to see the
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  Speaker 1: best picture I can get. If that picture happens to
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  Speaker 1: be on a rival media outlets site, I might take it,
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  Speaker 1: but I will then expect to get an invoice from
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  Speaker 1: that other media outlet, and I.
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  Speaker 2: Will pay one hundred percent. It's called honor amongst thieves.
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  Speaker 2: Everyone's doing it, and I think the motivations, as you say,
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  Speaker 2: are right. Hey, let's just get the best product. Honor
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  Speaker 2: amongst thieves. Hey, you have the best photo, I'm ripping
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  Speaker 2: it off. You send me an invoice. I've got to
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  Speaker 2: cough up. Someone always gets the shot and everyone else
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  Speaker 2: misses out. And nowadays, you know, unfortunately people are just
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: going to take that the temp take it's too great.
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  Speaker 1: A good example is the day Ben Robert Smith came
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  Speaker 1: out of jail after spending a week on remand while
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  Speaker 1: awaiting his first hearing.
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  Speaker 2: Wearing the same blue shirt, Ben Roberts Smith's long journey
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  Speaker 2: from jail to home ends a staggaway.
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  Speaker 1: Some of the best news photographers in the business Walkley
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  Speaker 1: Award winners were outside the prison waiting for Robert Smith
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  Speaker 1: to come out, but corrections in New South Wales were
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  Speaker 1: playing some games and shepherding people away. It became quite
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: a dangerous situation and in the end one photographer got
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  Speaker 1: great images that were Sam moy from the ceame Morning.
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  Speaker 2: He and formerly of the It's Great.
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  Speaker 1: Photographer nine sent out some invoices and they were of
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  Speaker 1: course paid. But there's another story that you're breaking today
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  Speaker 1: about the Bondi Beach massacre. A photographer named Banjo McLachlin
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  Speaker 1: was down there working for Daily Mail Australia via a
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  Speaker 1: news agency Matrix pictures and hearing Banjo McLachlin talk on
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  Speaker 1: a Daily Mail video about what happened that day, it's
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  Speaker 1: very moving.
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  Speaker 3: We didn't know. There was a few things. I was
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  Speaker 3: trying to get pictures, but I also wanted to get
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  Speaker 3: on the phone as soon as I could, so I
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  Speaker 3: called the agency. Then then there's a shooting North boordne
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  Speaker 3: Bridge behind the pavilion hit. They've have big guns and
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  Speaker 3: they're just yeah. I just wanted to get the clearest
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  Speaker 3: pictures as I could of the shooter's face to try
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  Speaker 3: and help the police.
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  Speaker 1: He risked his life to stay where he was and
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  Speaker 1: shoot some images. He said he was trying to help
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  Speaker 1: the police get clear photographs of the shooters. Those photos
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  Speaker 1: were very widely published, but not everybody has paid for those.
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  Speaker 2: Why not everyone used them? And we're talking globally. His
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  Speaker 2: images captured the moment that the accused terrorists were on
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  Speaker 2: the footbridge shooting indiscriminately at people at the Huneker celebration.
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  Speaker 2: Did an amazing job in Australia, pretty much front page
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  Speaker 2: of ninety the papers were his pictures and he took
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  Speaker 2: some great video and everyone's leapt on it. It's online
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  Speaker 2: and almost immediately the Daily Mail's onto this and they
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  Speaker 2: understand the situation. They've got a great picture at her
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  Speaker 2: two in there, and she's got in touch with all
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  Speaker 2: the picture desks. They all know each other at every outlet,
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  Speaker 2: going hey, just so you know they're are photos. You've
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  Speaker 2: already taken it, We get it, just so you know,
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  Speaker 2: we reserve our copyright. There'll be an invoice in the
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  Speaker 2: mail all the outlets they've gone to. Look, we're going
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  Speaker 2: to take it because our audience need to see it,
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  Speaker 2: and we'll worry about the accounts later on.
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  Speaker 1: The accountants can worry about that on Monday.
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  Speaker 2: And don't worry, they will and the invoices come and
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  Speaker 2: obviously big invoices come to news Court because we've splashed
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  Speaker 2: with it and we've paid that, and the invoice has
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  Speaker 2: been sent around international outlets everyone who took it, and
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  Speaker 2: people are paying up. Nine on the other hand, said no, no,
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  Speaker 2: it's fair use.
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  Speaker 1: This is the copyright lawyer's least favorite phrase. Fair use
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  Speaker 1: is not really a thing here in Australia. The copyright
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  Speaker 1: law is very clear. In fact, if you use anything
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  Speaker 1: unless it's for all the purposes of critique or analysis,
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  Speaker 1: you have to pay.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are certain exceptions when it comes to
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  Speaker 2: say TV news and current affairs. If someone wins a
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  Speaker 2: gold medal at the Olympics. The Olympics very aggressive with
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  Speaker 2: their protection of their rights of all the broadcast vision.
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  Speaker 2: But you can take five seconds or as a general rule,
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  Speaker 2: I think you can argue five to ten percent of
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  Speaker 2: your entire sixty second package can be vision of that
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  Speaker 2: because it's a news event and no one should entirely
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  Speaker 2: own the news right. What is different is when there
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  Speaker 2: is a news event like ben Robert Smith or the
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  Speaker 2: Bondo massacre and there's all photographers down there and they're
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  Speaker 2: all getting pictures and you just happen to like someone
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  Speaker 2: else's better. There is nothing fair about saying I'm going
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  Speaker 2: to use that one instead. That is not fair use.
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  Speaker 2: Just because their photos better, I'm using the better frame.
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  Speaker 2: That's pilfering.
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  Speaker 1: That's just the Yeah. So it becomes a commercial transaction,
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  Speaker 1: so you know, you can pay afterwards, and then it
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  Speaker 1: becomes a deal. If you don't pay, it is dealing.
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  Speaker 2: It is still, but that seems to be the business
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  Speaker 2: model at nine at the moment. Just last month we
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: called him out over doing the same thing when they
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: were taking photos from an Ossie independent website run by
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Lochlan cut Right in the US of pictures he'd got
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  Speaker 2: exclusively of Rupert Murdoch's ninety fifth birthday in Manhattan. And
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: when they're asked, oh, you know where I think it
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  Speaker 2: was something negligible like a thousand dollars or two thousand
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  Speaker 2: dollars to help cover his cost, they were saying, no,
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  Speaker 2: no fair use. We've taken them as fair use. The
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  Speaker 2: most egregious part of that was they took his photos
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  Speaker 2: after he gave them quotes to run with it, so
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  Speaker 2: they interviewed him. He talked about it gave them some
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  Speaker 2: great color about you know what the birthday cake tasted like,
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  Speaker 2: because the Murdocks sent him out a slice because they
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  Speaker 2: appreciated his journalism, and then they just ripped off his photo.
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  Speaker 2: So it's all like a one to two sucker punch.
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  Speaker 2: And until Diary got involved, they were just saying no, no,
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  Speaker 2: They're sending him legal letters saying cease and desist, asking
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  Speaker 2: us for cash. We're not paying.
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  Speaker 1: So basically the moral is the photography just need you
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  Speaker 1: to go and follow up the invoice with a call.
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  Speaker 2: Well, this time it hasn't worked because unfortunately I tried that.
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  Speaker 2: I said why aren't you paying, and they just said,
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  Speaker 2: we're not going to. It's fair use we're not going
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  Speaker 2: to pay. The Daily Mail. On the other hand, it's
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  Speaker 2: not taking that lying down because their lawyers are going, well,
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  Speaker 2: if what you're saying is true, then it's just open
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  Speaker 2: season and cases like where say the ODS has taken
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  Speaker 2: Sam moys Potter will no longer pay for that, And
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  Speaker 2: it's basically a whole rewriting of the commercial agreement and
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  Speaker 2: the honor system. It's just beggars belief that it can
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  Speaker 2: get to a stage where you've got the biggest media
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  Speaker 2: company in the country going, we can just take whatever
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  Speaker 2: we like and we're not going to pay.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, I must say the Daily Mail are the good
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  Speaker 1: guys in this particular story. But the Daily Mail's business
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  Speaker 1: model since it started in Australia has been nicking stories
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  Speaker 1: from other publications. I mean they do a bit of
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  Speaker 1: light rewriting. They might include a hyperlink kind of several
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  Speaker 1: pars in, but they do steal journalism as their business model.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, they also have journalist who they are employee,
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  Speaker 1: who are doing independent reporting, often fantastic reporting. So we
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  Speaker 1: can't be too kind to the Daily Mail here.
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  Speaker 2: Well, see, it's an interesting one because they've got us
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  Speaker 2: on a loophole, right, So when it comes to words,
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  Speaker 2: you can't copyright a news event, So Man lands on
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  Speaker 2: the Moon, you can't go, well, that's my exclusive. I've
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: got it behind a patient.
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  Speaker 1: But they don't stick to that rule. If you get
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: an exclusive interview with you know, Barack Obama tomorrow, they
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  Speaker 1: will rip it off within a couple of hours and
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  Speaker 1: they might note that it was first published in the Australian.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but because unfortunately you can't own an interview with
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: someone you can't own that. You can't own the copyright.
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  Speaker 2: What you can own is a photo.
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  Speaker 1: Sure, so they're legally safe, but ethically that is a
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  Speaker 1: problematic business model.
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  Speaker 2: I would suggest, yeah, yeah, and look, that's what I
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  Speaker 2: mean by it's a loophole, and you're seeing more and
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  Speaker 2: more places doing this. I actually got into, believe it
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  Speaker 2: or not, a massive argument with someone I can't imagine,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: because they were telling me that I was a bit
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: of a dinosaur and I didn't get everyone was just
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: going to be stealing everyone's content and that was the future. Yes,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: but someone still has to write the first story for
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: everyone else to You still need to pay a journalist
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: to go out and find out something no one else knows,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: speak to someone interesting about something interesting, write it down,
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  Speaker 2: and actually have the first story. Can't just you can't
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  Speaker 2: steal nothing.
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  Speaker 1: And the journals who can get those kinds of stories
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: are much more expensive than the twenty two year old
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  Speaker 1: sweety pies who are writing the repulfs at the Daily Mail, the.
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  Speaker 2: Daily Mail and a whole heap of other places Yahoo.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: And the most disappointing part of that is they're not
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: just stealing someone else's work. They're stealing that twenty two
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: year old's future because I don't know about you. For me,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: my twenties was making egregious mistakes in interviews with people
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: and getting yelled at like, oh, that's not what I meant.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: You've taken me out of content.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: And just the grind of getting exclusives too, having doors
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: shutting your face, having people hang up on you, learning
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: how to get past all of those problems and still
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: come back to the office with an exclusive story. That's
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: what the struggle of journalism is all about. So you
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: get better now. One of the most experienced and admired
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: journalists in the country is Ronnie Sadler, the new executive
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: she used to a Spotlight. Just a few weeks ago.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Here on the front we were singing Ronnie's praises, very
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: excited as she was about to return to Spotlight and
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: talking about how much we were looking forward to her
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: first shows. She has now ruffled and feathers at seven
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: with her first big appointment, Who is it and what's
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: the problem?
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, Ronnie, we're big fans. She won her
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: first show in the ratings. She's ended up on Media
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Watch over her first story in the ratings.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: But now not necessarily a bad thing.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: No, it's good. It's good, right Like, if they're not
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: talking about your story a week after it's been to air,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: you've failed. But now the big scandal inside seven is
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: her first appointment, and she's come in and she's brought
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: in someone that she's worked with for a long time.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Rannie obviously was a reporter on seven's now defunct Sunday
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Night and then went to the ABC, and at both
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: those shows she worked with a producer named Nick Farah,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: and Nick Farrow worked extensively with Ross Coulthart. I hate
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: to think how many Walkleys they won together, predominantly doing
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: business stories on Sunday Night. Shut He also found his
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: way over to the ABC. While at the ABC, he
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: did a now infamous story, particularly in the Halls of Seven,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: absolutely skewing the network. Disgraceful place to work. It's soul crushing.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: We've spoken to two hundred people.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: It's not just women who say they cop it in
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: this culture. Why are you speaking out?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Because if you don't speak out, nothing gets changed. And
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: eighteen months, two years on, he's returned there. He's all
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: of a sudden forgotten that it's so bad to work there,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: and he signed up as Runni's first appointment come in
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: as a casual freelance producer on Spotlight as the first
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: person she's brought on. And everyone who knows him or
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: heard about him there will is that Nick Farrow, what's
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: he doing in the building.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Well, we know he can produce an entertaining piece of television.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the thing. Having worked on the shows, specifically
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Spotlight and sixty Minutes long form produces really rare skill,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: really hard to find people who can do it and
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: do it well. Well, if Nick can do it well,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: he's obviously got skills that Ryani's keen to bring on
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: to make the show better.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: He'll have some fuddle now about how the ABC is
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: a terrible place to wells.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: But everyone in there is thinking, we thought Nick's photo
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: would be behind the desk at security, you know, col
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: reinforcements if you see him approaching the building. So it
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: has rankled. It hasn't gone down well, and unfortunately it's
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: not going to go down well with the major shareholder,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Kerry Stokes. He did not like that story for obvious
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: reasons because it effectively attacked his leadership. So he's not
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: going to like seeing someone rewarded who skewered seven. I
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: would suggest Nick Farrell will not be working at Spotlight
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: after he finishes making the final nips and tucks on
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: his current assignment.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Coming up a new twist in the Alan Jones case.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Probably the biggest media story this year, although it feels
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: like we've already had some huge ones, will be the
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: trial of Alan Jones, the veteran broadcaster who's denying allegations
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: of sexual misconduct. What have you learned about what's going
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: to happen in that trial.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: We continue to get information coming through about some of
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: the evidence that is going to crop up in each trial.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: It's not that far away now. It's destined to head
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: to the local court in August. It's set down for
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: four months. Last year we shared how he had a
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: secret loan book that's documented everyone that he's lent money
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: to over his career and how that could potentially compromise people.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: The latest comprom at that has come up is a
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: large number of messages he's shared with young men. They're
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: quite graphic, explicit sexual messages. We're talking text messages, picture messages,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: and they are all private and there's absolutely no suggestion
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: at all at the time these exchanges took place that
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: they weren't consensual. I think from both sides, having to
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: face questions about these messages is going to be deeply
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: challenging for all parties.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: JACKI thanks for joining.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Us now, Thank you for your time.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Steve Jackson's diary is live right now, and so is
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: all Australia's best journalism at the Australian dot com dot
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: au