Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 178: Emily Huston - The Cliff Effect in Sport

Transcript

178: Emily Huston - The Cliff Effect in Sport · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the people out there think that if an athlete goes and gets a job after they finish their sport, then everything is okay.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll see that there is an abundance of resources out there.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: And some of this is just for monetary gain of different organizations, which is fine, nothing wrong with that.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: But but they just there's these abundance of resources to place an athlete into a job.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: And working in a job has its own unique complexities for an athlete.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how many times I've heard an athlete say, I can't sit at this desk.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just, I don't know what I'm doing.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I feel purposeless.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I feel meaningless.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I sitting at this desk for eight hours a day?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not to mention that they're just kind of stir crazy because they're just sitting and they're used to moving.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonzalvert, and welcome to the Second Wind Academy Podcast.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: A show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Emily, listen, thank you for joining me on the show today.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to our conversation.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Likewise, yeah, thanks for having me.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to it too.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as I said, we're gonna have a bit of a an as conversation, understand a bit of your journey, but also your perspective on I guess career change, get finding that clarity and getting the right type of support as you come from certainly being a high performance athlete and the type of care and support that we need uh to really continue to thrive in life.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um for those who don't know you, please let's just give that introduction and then we'll we'll we'll jump right in.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right, love it.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um my name's Emily Houston.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a retired um volleyball player.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I played for Baylor University and also professionally, as well as throughout the USA pipeline as a junior all the way through through college.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: My story is a bit unique in that I retired twice from volleyball, so um, which I'm sure we'll go into.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and let's see, what else about me?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I um adopted if that comes up.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I I told Lola about that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I grew up in Mexico.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I um originally from Sonoma County and have lived in four countries outside of the US.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I I like to call myself a global citizen.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely brilliant.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you you you've you've given all of those wonderful bits about I think that makes your story all the more special.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm gonna start with the bit you mentioned there about retiring twice.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'll ask you, did do we ever truly retire from sport?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Emily, are you still playing secretly?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I am definitely not playing secretly.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I have no intentions of going back to volleyball at this point.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, no, I mean going back for the second time was more of like a parachute in a way for me at the time.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: But no, now I have I I do coach for fun because it keeps me involved in the game and I like to give back and you know pay it forward.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: I had some amazing coaches that were are still a part of my life.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And now that I've I've retired a hundred percent, I um I like to say that I discovered the outdoors, which is is true because as an athlete, I was indoors all the time.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And as an elite athlete, you know that you're a hundred percent dedicated to your sport and any distractions, you know, were not good.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I I discovered the outdoors, which totally changed my life.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I have jumped on the pickleball pickleball bandwagon.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: We'll touch on that bit, I'm sure.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: That bit you've just said there has I suppose I've never I've never thought about it.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's throwing me.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Discovering the outdoors.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm football, I'm soccer.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm I'm it it is outdoors, and that's probably a natural place for me to be.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I've just never thought being in on volleyball.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: You it it's it's only played indoors.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they call us gym rats.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they called us.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um those of us who were gym rats, I mean, you couldn't get me out of the gym.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was either the gym or the weight room.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: At Baylor, we did train outside, but it's not the same as like when you're fully integrated into the mountains or you know, to your environment.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it did change my life.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So in discovering the outdoors, what what does what does that actually mean?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, it means everything to me right now.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I like I said, it changed my life in probably some of the best ways.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like uh I'm not a religious person, but I define my spirituality in the outdoors.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I find like, well, I will say I'm afraid of the ocean, but I find the waves extremely humbling because there's so much power.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like it, and I'm from um a part of the United States that's a coastline and not a beach.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so there are sharp cliffs and the waves are really big.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's dangerous.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: People drown every year.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a deep respect for the ocean.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then, but it's in the mountains and underneath trees where I just feel really at peace.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I since then I have started backpacking into the backcountry, which is, you know, different than backpacking throughout Europe, which I've done that too, but sometimes people get that confused.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it's basically like when you take a backpack with all of your things that you need to survive, and you go out into the mountains and you are there for however whatever amount of time that you're going to be there.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen some incredible sites that you can only access by foot.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just it's magical, it's special, it's extremely humbling.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you've probably heard about awe.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that is an those are awe moments, you know, and I'll never forget them for the rest of my life.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's amazing.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's wonderful.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I liken it in in some respects to as a as a pro athlete, often you you don't you get used to a certain environment.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So in England for me back home, most cities, towns I know based on them having a f a football team or their stadium.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, I went there.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, actually I arrived, went straight to the stadium and left.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you get this weird view or perspective on on the world.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and for me, uh leaving sport uh on a full-time basis enabled me to really start to see the world, really start to see beyond my environment.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, wonderful just to hear that sort of echoed back, but from from you in terms of that outdoors, but you really you know, that that spirituality of finding, I guess, a a a sense of peace from being out there.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's yeah, that's really cool.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's got me thinking.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I it well, it's more than peace for me, actually.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's there is the peaceful element that I've described, but I also like to say that I like to scare myself.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I scare myself by pushing myself to the edge, just like when I was an athlete.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I do things with it's a calculated risk.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not I'm trying not to put my life in danger.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: But inherently there are things that I'm doing that I, you know, I am in danger if I were to become injured or fall a certain way.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So an example of that is I learned to ski as an adult.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I I am now in love with skiing.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't get me off the mountain when it's the winter.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that too has changed my life because it's just given me something that is very similar to my pursuit of volleyball, in that I can push myself, I'm outdoors, I and I can literally put myself on the edge, you know, and then decide to drop in or not, you know, and and I get to get better at it.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's just it's it's so much fun.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that, you know, you mentioned that this is a thread that came through you from sport, but that challenge, that uh pursuit of the pursuit of excellence to try and master something.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And there's that sort of physical, but and then it's physical as well.
• 8:45
  unknown: But yeah.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a a pursuit of being good at it.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's probably your sense of what that good is.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's more about the journey, right?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like in anything.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the same thing is true with this.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's more about the journey and having fun instead of like arriving to something.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, arriving to certain moments in our lives, you know, our culmination of various goals or our efforts, but it's truly about the journey.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't emphasize that enough.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's I I hope that that's true for everybody.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I know it isn't, but it would be great if everyone could find the essence.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's let's talk about your journey.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let let's let's go back.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm keen to understand how sport sort of impacted you as a child and where you started to find this, well, I guess a place or an enjoyment of volleyball.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So what was sport like for you, you know, as you were growing up?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was always an athlete.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I played many different sports, and then I discovered volleyball.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's kind of a funny story.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was recruited.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was I made the varsity basketball team as a freshman in high school, which is the lowest grade.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and then and there's four grades in high school in the United States.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is you're about 13, 14.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, I was about 13.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And developmentally, maybe 14.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh oh, is that true?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or no, is it fifth?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not, I don't remember, but 13.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: You left when you were roughly 18, four years before you came in.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, but developmentally, you know, I was tall at the time.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm six feet now.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was five, ten as a freshman, so I was very tall, but I was very, very skinny and I hadn't, you know, fully like grown out with muscle and and all that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up breaking my leg because I was playing against girls that were four years older than me and much more developed.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, the volleyball coaches actually were like, Well, you really are a volleyball athlete.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like your body looks like a volleyball player.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Have you considered volleyball?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um my the coach came up to my mom and you know, proposed this, and she thought it was a scam.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And she thought that this guy was like, like, what?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Why is my daughter like, why would you want my daughter?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, he just was able to spot an athlete.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And he was right.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was a volleyball player through and through.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I once I found volleyball, like it was a level of passion that I'm sure many athletes can describe, but it's like unlike anything else.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so passionate about volleyball, like you just could not stop me.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what was it?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: What is it about volleybally, but even at that young age that you think attracted you to it?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are a few things.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, one is naturally we're attracted to things that we're good at.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so even though I wasn't very good when I began, I did have a natural inclination to the sport in terms of how we move and how we use our bodies to to play to play volleyball.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so that came on fairly quickly.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I also just had a ton of support for my coaches.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and actually, you asked like earlier about um my journey into sport.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the things that kept me there were my coaches.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason for that is because I was growing up in a household that was really chaotic.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of stress.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there was some trauma, there was trauma.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so volleyball, even though I loved it, it was also an outlet and it also provided me a community of people that were helping me thrive.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like it just, I just felt like I belonged.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I funny here that could the importance of that community bringing us in, uh, into the sport.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like you say, you you then were were good at it.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like it was around that 14-15 where you I guess where you found volleyball.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: But how quick then?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because like you say, so you you must have been good at basketball in order to be playing varsity as a freshman.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So moving then to volleyball, like you say, initially you're not very good.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, but you know, I was always an athlete.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, from a very young age, I was playing many different sports.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um in the US, we have softball and baseball.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was playing baseball for some reason.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to play baseball with the boys.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then yeah, I must have been good at basketball.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really remember, to be honest, but I I did go to a high school that was very athletic, so they must have seen something.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then my trajectory with volleyball just skyrocketed because Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm interested then.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So as you start getting good at volleyball, what did you see as the the the end point?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what we like, this is where I want to get to.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So my coaches, so the my the my club team was a a club that was known nationwide for producing great volleyball talent.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and for some reason in our community, we have really tall girls, and volleyball players are typically very tall.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, and uh at the time, something that was really unusual was that I was a setter.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, there were no other tall setters.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So historically, all of the setters were like five, six, five, eight.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like they thought that you had to be short to play that that uh position.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: But it there was me and one other girl in the nation that were about six feet, and we were setters, and so we were very athletic, we could, we were very like um nimble, we could move our bodies even though we were tall.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we were absolutely the first crop of tall setters to come out of the system.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's very normal.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and in fact, it's like I mean, you you kind of have to be tall because you're blocking against teams, you know, with girls that are six five or six six or six seven.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: So fascinating.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you know, whilst this is whilst this conversation is is not necessarily about the sport, it is it is great to hear these uh little nuggets that sort of come through.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how you know coaches typically would reference or reference people, they would see you and think, oh, you'd make a good person, you'd make that that good role.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you broke that mold.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I will I did break the mold with me and the other girl, but I will say also that uh you know, because the like traditional was that if you were tall, you were a hitter.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I tried hitting and I was terrible.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they were just like they just threw the ball up one day and they were like, Emily, set the ball, and just out of nowhere.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just set it and it just like came out super clean.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: It like they call it butterfingers, like it probably wasn't perfect, but they were like, Oh my, and I do remember they were like, She's a setter.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, she's a setter.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: So and then I will say that um I think the other, well, you asked me earlier about like what the vision goal was or the goal was.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so they saw talent and they saw me working very hard.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I told you earlier that I broke my leg, and they s the I my leg was broken during tryouts for club volleyball.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And but they knew they had seen me move, they knew that I was gonna be a decent athlete.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so they still put me on the number one team for my club with a broken leg, and I hadn't been able to try out.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I was the type of player where I would I would go to every practice and I would sit in a chair and I would make people throw me balls, even though I couldn't stand.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I would so I'd get as many reps as I could.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I would go out in the street with my parents and that make them throw me balls and stuff like that.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So so they saw that and they really like players like that, you know, of course.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so anyway, so I think with those different characteristics that I had, they knew that I was going to move quickly.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And they told me that, you know, if you really want this, you could be a USA volleyball player.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, that was like there was nothing like there was no other better outcome than something like that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So getting there, represent your country, taking, you know, uh Olympics, world champs, that type of quick became that vision.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: When they told you that, I guess I'm not I supposedly not that specific moment, but I'm trying to get understanding this balance between that pursuit in in sport, but then from an academic or study perspective, as you're coming through school, how how did you manage that balance?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my mom, I'm lucky that my mom always used the word balance.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like if there's one word that I like if you were to ask me to think of one word to attach to me and my mother's relationship when I was a younger person, it would be the word balance.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: She always was like, you need to be balanced, uh, which she you know, she's way ahead of her time, I think, in terms of helping a young athlete recognize that sport is not always going to be a part of your life.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I was very lucky.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it wasn't easy.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, you know, balancing everything and I I don't know, I've always been a higher achiever, so I'm always trying to do the best that I can do.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um I just did the best that I could, you know.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and great.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: So for you, then moving um, you know, through that trajectory, like you said, it was this sort of rapid, rapid growth.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: College, I'm guessing, then became a a key point, a quick a key jump-off point for you as well.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you were looking at college, was it academic focused or was it a who's gonna give me the best chance from a volleyball perspective to to to go in that US pipeline?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I was in a very extremely unique situation uh because I was such a big recruit.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in the top five in my position in the United States.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that is a very small, you know, group of people to be a part of.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I I was actually advised by my coaches that in order to make the best decision for me, to set a set of criteria uh to help me identify and weed out schools that weren't a good fit and identify schools where it would be a good fit.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I did.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I and my set of criteria were a good volleyball school.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be able to have a relationship with my coaches that didn't have like a hierarchy, like I wanted to be, I wanted to have a similar relationship with my collegiate coaches as I had with my club coaches.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I wanted a good academic school.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I did.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was very much an overwhelming process.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I received hundreds of letters um from different schools of very different levels.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: And how did you make the decision?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: By using that criteria, um, you know, and
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I And who helped you then?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: My coaches.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: My coaches helped me.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And my my parents too.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I went on an unofficial visit to Baylor and I committed on the visit, which in hindsight was probably a mistake.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: But um but they really wooed me.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like they just totally wooed me.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I and it did have everything that I wanted.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So to be fair, um and from that perspective, it was a good choice.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wonderful.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now so then that it you know, we talked about it being difficult.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned that, you know, finding that balance as you then stepped into college.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um where did you know what what I guess from a from a spawn perspective, where did that path take you um college-wise, but then also pursuing that national level or continuing to pursue the national level.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: My national, like being in the USA pipeline started as I was on the junior USA junior national team in high school.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: So my pipeline experience started then.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I will say for the people listening that I tried out twice before I made it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I was rejected twice, and I was like, I'm gonna keep going and I'm gonna keep trying out until they notice me.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally they did.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say if you're experiencing something similar, just keep going and keep trying out, keep showing up.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, and then I yes, I went to Baylor and uh I let's see.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: The question is like, how did my trajectory continue with the USA pipeline?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or how did it continue?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: How did you find the balance?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're in the national pipeline.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're heading in the direction that you want.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: You've still got college, you still got to study and do something there, have this life.
• 21:44
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: What was the hardest thing about that period?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I would say my mental health was probably the hardest thing.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um also, I haven't shared this publicly, but I'll I'll share it publicly because I I think it's important that this is talked about more.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And also, um, this is also new information for me in the past few months.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't know it at the time, but I know now that I'm likely on the autism spectrum, obviously high functioning and high functioning then.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it I had a really difficult time managing relationships with my teammates.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And and also to be honest, like it wasn't just me.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of drama happening on our team that was unrelated to me and some terrible things.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but I ended up being kind of the scapegoat for whatever reason.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I would say a combination of my mental health, the dynamics within the team and various like pretty bad things happening behind the scenes that I didn't even know about at the time, but I now know.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then just my own eccentricities of like having a hard time like connecting with people sometimes.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well look, thanks for thanks for sharing that, you know, because you know, I I really appreciate it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and these conversations are are all about that.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's all it's all about, you know, as as as we look back and and just trying to un unpick in many respects.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and like I say, some of it we can't see it until we are reflecting and looking back.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean so you you talk talk about that challenge for yourself in in connecting with with your teammates and th those around you.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's interesting because you talk about it being that sense of community for you.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh certainly as a as a junior, that community in that volleyball was really important for you.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know given what you've just said, did that continue to carry true as you were going into that US national team and then a baylor?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yes, in some ways.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my my teammates were my people, you know, they were my community.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we had the athletic community at large, but you know, it wasn't without challenges sometimes.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and it also you just have to expect that there are going to be conflicts within a team.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like people are people, and conflict does happen, and there are different personalities, and you're also at different developmental stages.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, different priorities, and and then of course, people just have things going on in their their life that you just may not know about.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, and and now thankfully there's more dialogue around mental health issues.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, you know, it's it's just a complex uh milieu, if you will.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is, it is, and I think it is that balance of what does it mean when we're elite in in a league sporting environment and you're sort of you're pursuing that that goal, you're pursuing being number one, and as a team you have to get there, and it and it is stressful physically and mentally.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and we we we do forget that, and it's good then when we know we can learn from it and you know take the time to do that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: For you, coming through that period from a coming towards the end of your college perspective, where did you want to then go with volleyball?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: There are too many stories of bankruptcies, mental health issues, and unfortunately suicide.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's time for to act.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Every year we see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life after leading sport.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: It might be a retirement, injury, or they need to juggle your careers between sport and a job.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: As a former English professional footballer, I have somehow managed to transition from sport into banking, strategy, innovation, and now life coach, career practitioner, and founder of the Second Wind Academy.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to help those around me find their career second with.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Find me on Insta or through my new Facebook group, Second Wind Academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I didn't really want to go anywhere, um, which is part of my two-time retirement.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: So after Baylor, I was very burnt out.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just kind of wanted to move on with my life.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Start my life is kind of, I I think is the language I was using.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I moved to Dallas and started, you know, I got a job and tried to transition as best as I could.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, but that was also with its own set of challenges, the transition, and which is eventually what led me to, you know, I said it was a parachute, eventually led me back to to volleyball.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: So talk to me before the parachute kicked in.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like you therefore, I'll I'll keep that an analogy going uh in free fall.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um so why did it feel like that?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you, you know, what was going on to make you, I guess, need that, need the parachute later on?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what was going on?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one thing I'll I'll say is that at the very beginning of our conversation, I failed to mention that I'm the founder of Home Team.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And Home Team is uh we're a company that supports retired and injured athletes.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the things that we see now very, very clearly, and this what we call it is the cliff effect.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the cliff effect is when an athlete retires.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you said free falling, that's the perfect analogy because that is exactly what happens.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: There is a free falling, and there is often not a parachute.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: If an athlete has a parachute, I mean, honestly, it's basically unheard of.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I I developed my own parachute by making a decision to go back to volleyball.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: But without that, I was free-falling.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the question is like, what comes into that?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there are so many uh complexities for an athlete when they retire, uh, which includes the loss of community, the loss of your team, obviously, your relationship to food changes.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: You go from fueling to just kind of eating.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a really unusual thing to do, even though we all eat every day.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: But as an elite athlete, you're eating for a reason and with goals.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with exercise.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's a there's a huge chasm between training as an elite athlete and exercise, like two totally separate things.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you that in the work that we do, we see athletes really struggling in that area.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes what we see is that there's an element of control that can come into exercise and food.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And because they don't know how to exercise without support or guidance of a strength coach, or they may not know how to eat when they're not exercising as much, that can lead to a fear, fear-based decisions.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so they start having patterns of disordered exercise or disordered eating, which can then eventually lead to eating disorders.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: And eating disorders in the retired athlete population is actually quite common, unfortunately.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is that there is just, I see that do you are you wanting to jump in?
• 29:09
  unknown: Or no?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, okay.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: You were already going through some some quite amazing points.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's extremely disorienting.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I will even say that you know, the expectation or most of the people out there think that if an athlete goes and gets a job after they finish their sport, then everything is okay.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll see that there is an abundance of resources out there.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And some of this is just for monetary gain of different organizations, which is fine, nothing wrong with that.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: But but they just there's these abundance of resources to place an athlete into a job.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: And working in a job has its own unique complexities for an athlete.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how many times I've heard an athlete say, I can't sit at this desk.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just, I don't know what I'm doing.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I feel purposeless, I feel meaningless.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I sitting at this desk for eight hours a day?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not to mention that they're just kind of stir crazy because they're just sitting and they're used to moving.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is amazing.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: It it truly is, because you know, listening to you just earlier on, you were mentioning just our our relationship with with people, relationship with food, and relationship with our body or with exercise and the impact it has when we stop performing, when we stop doing the sport, and we try and move into, I'll say, the more traditional world uh or career path.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you you know, just calling out those three elements in in itself was quite fascinating.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting, then you talk about that that sort of fear-based response.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's an interesting use of the word fear, not one that I've I've heard before.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: What what makes you describe it as a sort of fear-based reaction?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a fear that you're going to gain weight.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's a fear that your body is going to change.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: I there we've had some men say that they go from feeling like they're Superman to not being able to lift the same amount.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just met with a young woman yesterday who told me the exact same thing.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: She just can't, she can't lift the way that she used to lift, which totally makes sense.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, you shouldn't be lifting that much as a normal person.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like you shouldn't be training six or eight hours a day.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like that would be crazy, right?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there's just a different types of fears.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's fears that um you're a nobody because in some ways, culturally, you have you have become a nobody.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that these people aren't important.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Of course they are, but that's the feeling.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: I also want to touch on something that is really is uniquely happening right now in front of our eyes, and that is NIL.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And NIL is a new, it stands for name, image, and likeness.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a new system within the NCAA college level of athletics.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it what it does is it allows athletes a vehicle for making money.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when I was an athlete, you weren't allowed to generate any type of revenue with the exception of your your scholarship.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And now that's changed.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Athletes are making millions of dollars.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Some athletes are making four to five hundred, six hundred thousand dollars a year just to play for a particular team.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and you're talking about 18 to 22 or 23 year olds.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, but what's what's happening is not only that, but what that's attached to is social media.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that they earn money is essentially through sponsorships, through a branding, um, through influencing gigs.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: An athlete's follower count is really important right now.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a form of currency.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but based on my conversations with athletes, is that once they retire, there's another cliff effect because they're no longer visible, they're no longer playing, their body changes, and they're not sexy anymore, especially for the women.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so the words that they've used are irrelevant.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me is really scary because they're not irrelevant.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: They know they're not irrelevant, but they have their brains are not fully developed at this point.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's easy to conclude that you're irrelevant when you're not getting likes every day.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Your followership isn't increasing by the thousands.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like people just go completely silent.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, the way you the way you you introduce that is we've actually brought that fame much earlier through NIL, through things, you know, through those types of programs.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And as you say, social media plays a big role.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: We've brought that much sooner in an athlete's, uh certainly those who go through the collegiate level in into their world.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that has a probably therefore a bigger impact when they stop being student athletes.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a massive impact.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a massive impact in our lives as athletes.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like how do you go from how do you go to being this super front-facing, super public persona when really you're just an 18-year-old kid?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I mean, think of yourself as an 18-year-old.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like truly you're a child, you know.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know all 18-year-olds think they're not, but you know, but you're you're just so learning so much about yourself, and there's so much to learn about the world, and there's so much ahead of us.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I mean, it but it is just all encompassing is scary.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, what was going on with you then?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: For you as as as you came out of college, what career, what job, what did you think?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, this is the life that I'm gonna step into.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm I suppose I'm interested then to know, okay, so what was that like?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Are you sure you want to know?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I so okay.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I had been offered to play professionally, but I was burnt out, so I turned it down.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I decided to go and work for FC Dallas, which is an MLS soccer team.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh was their first or second year in Frisco.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was it started as an internship, and then they it became a job.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: But uh the reason I was laughing is because having spent many like very uh like just influential years in the state of Texas, which is a very conservative state in the United States, it's in the South, and they call it the Bible Bell.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: And at least at the time, Waco, which is the city I lived in where Baylor is, had the most churches per square capita.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes you would stand on a corner and there would be th churches on three different corners, which is r I mean, just like why.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's quite medical.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I, in some ways, I had been acculturated to like a very conservative path, even though I didn't have conservative beliefs.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought that m my vision was that I was gonna get married and I was gonna have a white picket fence and I was gonna have four kids.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, that is not the life I have right now.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank God.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you had that as that next dream, which is an interesting dream to jump into straight after sport.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: But then So what happened from you?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess I'm thinking on that basis, at least on the those elements of your people and that relationship with with fuel and your body.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: What what what was going on for you?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: As it related to that dream and just everything that kind of went happened from there.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is part of the story, so I'm glad I brought that up.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: So about if we were to fast forward three years, I became really depressed.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I did not know how to get out of my depression.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: I could not stop crying.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember all the details, but I just remember I was very, very depressed.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: And part of the reason, well, there were kind of two major factors.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: One was just the cliff effect that we've talked about, the disorientation.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like I was floating, I didn't have any direction as an athlete.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: That is really hard because you have goals, you're always like very directionally oriented.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And also my vision for my life had not come true.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was just super depressed.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And in my depressive thinking, I thought, well, the only thing I'm good at is volleyball.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to go back to something that I'm good at and something that I enjoy, right?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because my world became very small and I was not enjoying life.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew that I needed someone to throw me a like a life vest type thing or a life saver.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: A lifeline.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, something that.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really needed that and I didn't have it.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided, like, well, of course I had other strengths, like, you know, but in my depressive thinking, it was like, well, the only thing you're good at is volleyball.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: So go back to volleyball.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that is what I did.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I I was working at the time.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: I that it's funny because I would never do probably do this now.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I told them, I was like, I want to go play volleyball professionally, but I may not make it.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: So do you mind if I take a week-long vacation to Europe and go try out for a team?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if I make it, then I'll stay.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if I don't make it, I'll come back to my job.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they were just like, like, who is this girl?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: They were awesome.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, okay, like we just need to know by this date and time, like, are you coming back?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's you know, it's it's amazing what happens when you ask.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Are you just as as outlandish as it might be?
• 38:32
  unknown: Yeah.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they just go, hey, okay.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, give it a go.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's funny that I like I can just imagine if I had a report come to me now and be like, hey, I think I might quit, but I might not.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not really sure.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: That would be kind of a weird conversation.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: But at least I have done that so I would know to give them some empathy.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: So did you find what you were looking for back in volleyball?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: I did, yeah.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I made a team and I went back to volleyball.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I I was living in Finland, in the way north of Finland.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was like about a hundred kilometers away from the Arctic Circle.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: So very extreme conditions.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but they it was a volleyball-loving town, and yeah, it was it got me back on a stable track, I would say.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: So given that, when did you realize I suppose I want to know when did you realize that, okay, I'm gonna stop volleyball and I really do have to move on to something else.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: But a little bit before that, when did you then remember that you were more than just a volleyball player?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think honestly, I always kind of knew that because of my mom, you know, the word balance.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, as a high achiever, I was also always trying to pursue other things if I could.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: So some examples of that were like at Baylor, I graduated with two degrees, and I could have graduated.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: With a minor, if I wanted to, but I didn't because I didn't think it would be useful.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: But and I graduated within four years.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: So two degrees in four years and a student athlete, that's a lot.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: In high school, I was the president of the key club.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember my coaches like, why are you doing this?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Not that they thought it was bad, but I was like, well, I just want to give back to my community because I I feel like I'm taking so much.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: So why not give back?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I was in Finland, like I was trying to learn Finnish, which I don't recommend.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a quitter, but sometimes there's wisdom in quitting.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: True.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad that I had the wisdom to Yeah.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Good effort.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's a language I too have tried.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love languages.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I love talking to people.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I figured the more languages you learn, the more people you can talk to.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, I speak Spanish.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, it's open my world.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: A funny thing about that, and to just piggyback off of what you're saying, is when I was in Finland, I was speaking Spanish every single day.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know in the way like Arctic North, which is you're like, what?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a teammate that was Brazilian, but she her primary, her first language was Portuguese, but she had played volleyball professionally in Spain, and then she didn't speak English very well.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then another Portuguese another Brazilian player came.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so our team dynamics and like language dynamics were Finnish first because the coach only spoke Finnish.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then the Finnish players would translate to English to me, and then I would translate from English to Spanish, and then she would translate from Spanish to Portuguese.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was crazy.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: That is that is quite a basic.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's the language chain.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um communication in sport.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: I guess a lot of it though is nudges and eyes, and you just ultimately know it because you you play it out on the field.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, there's signs.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: We have yeah, we have signals.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: So like as a setter, I would have a lot of signals to like call the call the players.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the I'm I'm interested in getting to home team and that sort of passion, you know, what led you to think that home team is a good idea and that there's a need for it in the world?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a bit of a story with it.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, I mentioned that in at Baylor, one of my biggest challenges was my mental health.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was at Baylor, I became injured.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: What actually, when I was playing for USA volleyball, I was in Argentina and I broke one of my fingers really badly.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: And as a setter, you're using your fingers every day.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: So when I got back to Baylor, I needed to have a surgery and they had to reset my finger.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, there was like the recovery of my finger.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: But because of like the way you're training and running and lifting, like first of all, I couldn't hold a weight in my left hand.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then my trainers were like, Well, if you're running, like what's the first thing you do when you fall?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: You put your hands out just naturally.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, what I'm trying to describe is that I was taken away from my team.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a very common experience for injured athletes, is and I like to say now that injury is really an injury of isolation because you stop traveling, you stop playing, you stop training with your team.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Extremely isolating experience.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: And my research is in trauma of injured athletes.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's psychological trauma that that comes into play too.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I forget why I brought that up, but that is part of my story.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: What yeah, how what what made you think of hunting?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: So let's fast forward.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: I came back from Europe.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: I went to grad school, I studied counseling psychology.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then after my graduate studies, I decided to, I was being pulled in another direction.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I started working for private single family offices.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um that in a private single family office is a very traditional institutional, uh, excuse me, financial tool and institution for really wealthy people.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I worked for um some of the largest private single family offices in the world and gained world-class operational experience and loved my career.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but it's a very male-dominated career.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: And due to like sexual harassment, pay discrimination, gender bias, a number of different things, I said, okay, this is enough.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: I got to a point where I just needed to pivot.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I, around that time, I came back in contact with a former teammate of mine, and she had written a book called Always an Athlete.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: And she described her book describes the developmental trajectory of when an athlete begins, like between five and eight years old, all the way to whenever they retire.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: And when it got to the stage of retirement, her book ended.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: And she called it as it's as if the athlete falls off a cliff.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where the cliff effect comes from.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: But her book was so poignant, be and not this is not a critique of her.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's really a critique of the system, and that there were no next steps, there were no resources.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I at that point, I was like, holy, like, that is exactly what I experienced.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like nothing, the free fall, the cliff effect.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then after doing a bit more research, I learned that the athlete landscape and the athlete ecosystem was still the exact same from when I was an athlete, which is 20 years later almost.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it just blew me away.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: I could not believe that athletes today, with the amount of resources that they have and everything that we know about the athlete life cycle, that there's essentially zero support for retired athletes.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that that is a systemic failure.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I saw that, I knew that that was something that I could do.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I knew that I could, I have personal experience.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: My background is in counseling psychology and mental health.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have operational experience and I've I've lived it.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and I just have the conviction uh it's so wrong that retired and injured athletes don't get the support that they deserve.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so our mission is to to change that.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: And listen, we're having that conversation clearly because I believe in that mission too.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so having having this conversation, but hearing you hearing the way you describe that, I think is also quite uplifting.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: You shared a few examples just as we've been talking about the conversations you've had with with athletes and uh you know and former athletes.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wha why don't you think anything had changed?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: So as you started doing that research and started looking, why do you think it's still a problem?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we have the same problem because one, there's a few reasons.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: One, there's a lack of understanding of the athlete life cycle.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And retirement is not included in that conversation.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, there just hasn't there hasn't been somebody to that's raising awareness and that is taking it upon themselves to, I guess, to change the system.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I th but I I think generally that there's a true lack of understanding around the complexities of retirement.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then second, um, is that to be honest, it doesn't benefit their athletic institutions.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a financial side to this, even if the athletic institution does understand that there's a challenge in athletes retiring and the NCAA, uh, which they've done research and studies that do point toward athletes um, you know, having a difficult time with their retirement.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: But there's no financial motivation for them to solve that problem.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: And let's be honest, like the these athletic departments are financial institutions first.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: They are there to make money, and that's the bottom line, to be honest.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, uh, but I will say the NIL has helped equalize the power in some ways between, you know, these athletic institutions, aka athletic departments, and the athletes.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because for too long, the athletic departments were just taking advantage of the athletes by, you know, using their names, using their images uh for their own financial gain, and the athletes saw none of that.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and you're right, NIL has at least provided a plot a an opportunity to even that out.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it comes with other complications, like many things, but like you say, it it it does take, it does shift the power balance a little bit.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: But you're talking there, you you know, you mentioned also just that I guess in whose interest?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: In whose interest is it to support an athlete uh never mind a month, but one year, five years after they've finished playing for that uh team or or pursuing that that sport.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: And look my my belief is it is a network that's actually going to help solve that.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think as athletes we're talking about certainly at 18, or maybe in the early 20s, we might not think we need the help.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: We might think, hey, I'm I'm grown, I know what I'm doing.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: And yet uh we can we can see that we need support, we need in some respects those steps and different perspectives because that attracts different people towards it, you know.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's not one single solution.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, there's not one single solution.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it is a it is a complex challenge.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like it, you know, and every athlete's experience is different.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, one of one of the things that we didn't talk about is substance use or just addiction in general.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: There could even be sex addiction, you know, that happens.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that all is usually comes out of a place, again, of fear, uncertainty, control to try and has some sort of and I think this is very normal for humans, right?
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Is we want to have control.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're when you're free-falling, you know, you don't have control.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have that.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Grasping for anything, anything to hold on to, even if it's something that's maladaptive, like alcohol or drugs or sex or or food or exercise.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so, Emily, for you leading, you know, home team, and you know, you've spoken about its origin.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: How does it work?
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Who do you support?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we support the athletes primarily.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's our our mission.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but but one of the things that we recognize in the systemic failures around athletes is that there are, I want, I mean, there are so many great people working in the athlete ecosystem and and all at all different levels.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they're they're former athletes themselves, they've been through it, they are highly trained, they have a heart of gold, they really want to help young people develop and launch into the world.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like ultimately, I think that that's what we all want for our young people.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: But the system as it stands today is fragmented and it's siloed and it's difficult to access care, whatever type of care that is.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: So while Home Team has an emphasis on athlete mental health, we also recognize that not all athletes meet a clinical level of need.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and in fact, like one of the things that we see in our work is that when an athlete retires, they are actually further behind their non-athlete peers because their athlete peer or non-athlete peers have had jobs, they've had internships, they've been negotiating, they, you know, just all the things that a young person starts to do, like in their early career and their early life.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: And an athlete retires and they have none of that experience.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so we also just see that there is a need for life skills, some amount of coaching, and just just community is honestly another thing that's extremely powerful because you know you're not alone.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, so to get back to what we do is one of the one of the things that we do is we provide a community for the athletes and the professionals.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the professionals that we bring together, they're called the Colab.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: The Colab stands for the collaborative.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea is that we break down the gaps in the system.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have invited um multidisciplinary providers throughout the eco athlete ecosystem to come together and create change.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of complaining that can be done in in the in those meetings, but like we are very action-focused.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that we're preparing to launch is a marketplace.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a service-based marketplace.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're calling it 360, which stands for, you know, 360 support of all kinds, whether that's clinical or life skills.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a this marketplace, it's its primary objective is to centralize care.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: So the athletes have one place to go to for vetted support and by former athletes themselves.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um right now that doesn't exist, and we that's our aim is is to to create centralized care with the existing resources that are around the country.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds brilliant.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, what you've just described, it's that network, it's pulling things together, that collaborative, um helping to, and the way you said break down break down the athlete's need, and but break it down in in real time.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: That multidisciplinary uh I think is definitely required.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it and it happens yes, whilst you're an athlete, but what we often forget is it's that two years afterwards, it's that five years afterwards, where we start to realize it's like, oh, hold on, is is this it?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is life.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not ready for this.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I I just need some help.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and often it's not that they're not ready, like they're ready, but you know, we all we all need community.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what I think particularly for the athletes, the thing that they don't have is that sense of direction, that sense of mission, that sense of purpose and and meaning.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: That is perhaps the biggest void.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a big void for for for many of us, right?
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we all struggle with that.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: We do uh you know, and and we do, and it and it's certainly not only athletes who get that sense.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, I think the the world dynamic changes and we we all have to try and figure things out.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I think what we recognize is a cohort of athletes, a a cohort that can describe themselves as athletes, and we perhaps know a way to to get the best out of that cohort, that group, because we've been there before, we've done it through sport, we've we've had some of these lessons.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, great, well, we can speak that language in order to help them best.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, for sure.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, Emily, people are gonna be watching, listening, and they're gonna be thinking, I I want to get in touch with it to speak with you, to get in touch with home team.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: What's the best way to do that?
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: The best way, there's two best ways.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: One is to go to our website, which is home teamgo.com.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then the next best way is to reach out to me on LinkedIn.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I love connecting with people who are mission-aligned.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think that there is just so much potential and so many things that we can do together.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly net LinkedIn is an amazing tool.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I would say both are fine, but if you want to connect with me directly, probably LinkedIn.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you want to learn more about Home Team to go to our website.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: Emily, I want to say thank you very much for taking the time out of your day, your evening, um, just to bring your perspective on what you do and also um, you know, what you're aiming to achieve through Home Team.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks very much for sharing.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for letting us share this with the world.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're we're stoked to create change.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's our goal.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for being a part of that.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope everybody who's listening will will join us.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Second Win podcast.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwin.io for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions, and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's all from me.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Take it easy until next time.