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Is Your Digital Brand Sending the Wrong Message? with Michele Correnti · UnF*ck Your Legal Marketing

• UFYLM Michele Correnti Ep: Welcome to Unfuck Your Legal Marketing, the show where we get brutally honest about marketing, business, and the messy middle of making it all work. I'm Gary Johnson, marketing coach, strategist, and Professional BS detector for attorneys and business owners who are tired of doing what everyone else does. Around here, we skip the fluff. We have real conversations, real insights, and maybe a few F-bombs along the way. So let's get into it. Today, my audience, be ready to be entertained. This experience is gonna be amazing. I'm joined by Michelle Correnti. Who is a marketing partner who helps law firms build brands that are just as strong online as they are in person? Michelle works with solo and small firms on everything from brand messaging and websites to SEO, content, social media, and newsletters, all with the goal of building trust. And making sure the right people know who you are before they ever meet you or before they ever hire you. So today we're talking about digital branding, what it actually means, how professionals should think about it, and how to build a brand that makes you recognizable, credible, and memorable online. So, Michelle, welcome to Unfuck Your Legal Marketing. Thank you for having me, Gary. I should hire you to do all my intros. That was fabulous. yes. Done. I will take your money. Perfect. So let's get straight into digital branding. and when you say digital brand, what does that actually include? Basically, your brand is there's like a Jeff Bezos quote that I love. It's your brand is what other people are saying about you when you're not in the room. So essentially if you're, yeah, I'll sit with that for a second. Yeah. If you're not telling the story of your brand, then other people are doing it for you. So it's kind of like if you're at a party or something and someone's gossiping outs about someone. If they haven't like told their story, then like people are making the story up for them. But in the professional sense, it's you, whether or not you know it, have a brand based on what people have experienced with you. And if you're not actively managing it, like for example, if you're networking and you're only doing in-person things, you're and you're not doing anything online, there's no like narrative that you're in control of. but usually it's not that complicated. That's kind of like the high level version of it. Essentially it's just making sure that the people know who you are, what you do, and who you serve. Yeah. And wouldn't you agree that most people don't even think that they have a brand and they just kind of show up. and you're right. Other people are controlling that narrative. Do you want them to control it in the right way or do you want to control it in in the wrong way? Right. And even more simply, a lot of the time I see, for example, like a solo practitioner that doesn't know how to talk about themselves in a networking setting. So then people misunderstand what they do. And that's kind of like the more common version rather than a rumor starting example. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rumors are always the best. we all love a we all love to gossip. We do, unfortunately. You know, one of the things that that I experienced this last week is I, you know, we're both improvisers and I went to the Provisor Group Leader Summit last week. So there's 500 plus group leaders, type A personalities that are like it's obnoxious. the energy in there is exhausting, but it's also pretty awesome too. And we were at a table introducing ourselves, and I introduced myself, I'm like Gary Johnson, the group leader of Costa Mesa. And they're like, wait, are you Gary Fucking Johnson? And I'm like, Yeah. Yeah, that's me. But that's the brand, right? People are talking about you. without you being in the room. And that leads to so much great business, but it also connects people. Like they're like, okay, I know Michelle. Like, or I feel like I know Michelle based off of the brand. Yeah. The parasocial relationship. It's kind of similar, like an again, a little dramatic but an example, but how we feel about like a celebrity or like a a producer that we like of a movie and we feel like we know them because we've seen videos and things. But really it's this parasocial relationships. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And it's and it's the narrative that them and their PR company is putting out there, right? They don't want that celebrity to people to really know the asshole that they are. They want them to be the nice person. You know, because how many times have we said that? my gosh, this celebrity is so nice. You know? And it's like that's not the normal because otherwise we wouldn't be saying that. We'd be saying Yeah, this guy's a fucking asshole, kind of thing. So Yep. yeah. So when we when we think about like logos and we think about website, what's the difference between those having, you know, a logo and a website versus actually having a brand? Ooh, good question. So I consider things like your logo, your messaging and your website to be foundational. your brand. So it's something for you to lean on. In my opinion, it's like the bare minimum. You at least need like a simple logo, whether like you ha hire a professional to do it or you get someone do to do something simple for you. And that basically is allowing people to see that logo, that color scheme, your name if your name is your firm's name, and start to associate it with you. it's kind of like if you see again, a little dramatic example, but like the McDonald's arches, we all know them. It's actually one of the most recognized symbols in the world. It's very similar to that. Even a small solo practitioner can have a logo and it can start to be recognized by their peers. so that's like a good way that immediately when they see like that color scheme, that you know, like that graphic, that logo, they'll know it's you. Yeah. And similarly, your website, it's something that you need nowadays at a minimum for people to kind of serve as like your resume. not that you need to list all your accolades per se, but people will visit a website to affirm that's who they're talking to, or they'll go to their LinkedIn profile and want to be like, is this the person that that person told me to talk to? Or am I confused now? You know what I mean? they'll be like, Why does their LinkedIn say that they do X, Y, and Z when person told me that they do A, B, C? Like now I'm confused. so basically you want everything to like match up and be consistent and talk to the right people. Yeah. and all of it feeds into your brand, which is again is like it's breaking it down. It's who you are, what you do, and who you serve, and making that this consistent professional thing that people see and start to associate and they start to it becomes this like repetition process. yeah. And I love the consistency too, and I love that you bring that up, which most marketing people do is that you have to be consistent, you know. So you have to show up. Consistently the same way. That's that's why I'm such a huge advocate about being authentically yourself all the time, because you don't have to go, Okay, what mask am I gonna put on today? I gotta have this because my website has my persona this way, but my personal life, I'm not really that way. And it's exhausting. It's confusing for other people because they may see you in a different light too. And they go, okay, yeah, that doesn't make sense at all. Yes. I think one of the most freeing things about running my own business and being, you know, like almost a decade into running my own business now and feeling very comfortable with the way I am as a person and like how silly I can be or different things. But I I'm still very professional. I'm still, you know, like I still got my stuff together. But Even a few years ago my team and I we did a video and it's on I think it's on our home page right now, but peop I get comments all the time where people are like, I love how in the beginning of that video you had a a blooper basically. yes. And it's like, yeah, it's like, yeah, 'cause it naturally happened and I was like, This video is so weird without this blooper because it's very like, Hi, how are you? And I was like, It's very not me. Like I had to take like thirty takes to get there. Like with my team being by the side, like, You got this like my God, I would have loved a video w fully panned out of your team going, Come on, Michelle, you got this, you got this. Yeah. It might even be the one where they cheer. One of the videos there's like a woo She finally got it. Yeah, exactly. God, that's I mean, but but you're right. I mean, remember the very first time that we spoke, I learned how y like Maine. You live in Maine. And and for me it's not conceivable because one, it's just so far. It's like the Arctic Circle. Like that's where you live. In my mind, that's where you live. Nobody lives in Maine. But but it also told me a lot about you in regards to how you really do cherish the times that you can spend alone. Right. And the fact that you could control that. You've got, you know, your neighbors, you've got your friends But it's just such a cool thing to really you've embraced that. You're like, yeah, I love being here. You are not going to go to a big city and get into that because everybody says you need to live in a big city. You're like, no, this is authentically me, part of your brand, you know? and it also shows how nice you are. Like, I'm like, God, you're so fucking nice. Like, you must be from a different country. Which is Maine. Maine's a different country. Listen, New Englanders are we're honest. We're honest. Yeah. There's like a joke about Massachusetts people where it's like if you if you like get a flat tower in Massachusetts, they'll be like, What are you, an idiot? and be like, I'll help you. Yeah, like and then they're like be safe. Like sending you on your home. Have a nice day. Yeah, and if you don't get that, you're confused. You're like, Wait, they just put me down but they're actually saying what they're thinking. because we're always like, God, what an idiot. And then you're like, Hey, Michelle. Yeah. Yeah, let me help you. God, is she so stupid? they'll actually just say it. You know. Exactly. Yeah. But let me help you. Yeah. But yeah, moving to Maine was an interesting part of my brand as well because I lived in Baltimore before this and I loved Baltimore, Maryland. not a huge city, but a city nonetheless. And I loved it. And I had a great network down there. We still have a lot of clients in Baltimore, D C like the Maryland, DC, Virginia area to this day, still get new ones. but I moved up here because I love it up here. And it just like makes me the best version of myself to have this like quieter place to live that's still got a lot going on, but not like as, you know, intense or busy. Yep. And you can, like you had just said, it makes the best version of you which your clients need. Right. They want the best version of you. They don't want a muted b version of you, you know. So and that goes back to brand. It it's just, you know, and it also goes back to trust, you know, because you can tell, like you can see the joy in your eyes when you talk about Maine. and you're like, Yeah, I freaking love this, as opposed to, yeah, you know, I love this. It's so great to live out here. Like that's what I would be saying because My well actually you know what? We should rewind the track because my partner, Josh, is gonna be so mad if he listens to us, he's gonna be like, Stop telling people about Maine. Stop it. we don't want people moving here. Right. Stop it. Tell them what's wrong Yeah. When people visit, we go, you can come back as much as you want. I'm sure you had the most amazing trip ever. They always do, but we say don't tell anyone. Tell everyone it's terrible. Yeah. So never mind. Maine is freezing. It's always cold. We live next door to Moose all day. Yes. Yes. It's scary. It's scary. Don't live don't come here. Yeah, don't come here. Okay. You sold me. All right. I think most people don't need to be sold. Sorry, Josh. but I think you're protected, buddy. so so speaking of trust, law firms, they they're built heavily on trust. So how does someone's digital presence Start building that trust before ever having a conversation with a potential client. Yeah, there's definitely a number of ways. One of the best examples I can give is if you're a solo firm or a small firm that basically is like running off of your name prior primarily, one of the most powerful things you can do is post on your personal LinkedIn profile, which is what we do for a lot of our clients, and share stories, tidbits, thought leadership. we help cultivate that with you. You don't have to come up with it yourself. but basically what you're doing is creating that parasocial relationship that we talked about, where people are like, I like her stance on that, or I too feel that way, or I just had that question, or my client just had that question the other day. Like I should connect them. But basically what you're doing is slowly doing these like building blocks of trust where people are seeing you and they're getting these, we call them touch points. and in the professional world, it can take anywhere from like seven to eleven touch points for someone to finally be like, I think I like I get it and I should call you. And that can like, you know, you met him at a networking event, they saw you post on LinkedIn, you they got an email, you know, like that kind of thing. but by bas basically by like obviously we help curate everything for our clients, like whether we're doing their social media, their blog writing, their newsletter, their personal LinkedIn, like I talked about. but basically by Having that consistency and posting about things that are thoughtful and add value, people start to learn about you, the way you do your run business, the way you run your practice. and that's how you can build trust faster. Yeah. As opposed to people only coming across you because they're like, I saw all this real tr real estate transactions attorney ones, and you need help. So sure. Right. I guess you should call them. Yeah. And then it's not your ideal client. It's not even a real estate transaction, it's all the things. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, if you're freaking out right now because Michelle just said seven to eleven touch points, don't. This is a marathon. It is not a it's not a sprint. Yes. It's a marathon. And lean into that because that allows you to build a r cool relationship with these other people. So take your time, be thoughtful. Yeah. Right. Be very thoughtful. And and yeah, if you don't if you're like, okay, I have no idea. That's where Michelle comes into play. That's where she thrives. That's her sweet spot. Just like I don't know real estate. I don't know anything about contr real estate contracts. So what do I do? I hire somebody who's a freaking expert that can get me through those because I'm gonna make a mistake. I'm gonna like give away the farm, or I'm not gonna protect myself from any risk. It's the same thing that Michelle and her team does. and also she gave you a really great nugget with LinkedIn personal pages, post on those. company pages that doesn't have a great reach. Your personal page, it does, but it builds that personal brand that is digital. This is all about that digital aspect, you know. And and I think we need that visibility, you know. but if you were to if somebody is great at what they do. Right. do you have any advice on where they should start to get themselves visible online? You know, I know had just mentioned LinkedIn personal profile, but is there any others that you would go, I'd recommend you start here and here? Definitely. at a minimum, your LinkedIn profile and your website are super important, even if you just have like a one pager for your website. That has like contact information, you know, like a little headshot at the minimum. those are the best places to start. Also, Google business profiles are really great. at a minimum, it helps with your basic SEO, like helping you appear more in search results on Google, for example. it's also great if you do have an office, but you also don't need an office to have one. It's still good for your SEO. It's still helpful for people when they're searching their name. So those are the places I start your LinkedIn, your website, and your Google business profile. depending on what kind of attorney you are. This is my other like SEO hack, if we're gonna go on that track. some there's think about like the websites that have they're investing a lot in appearing in search results. So for example, super lawyers is one, Avo is one. if you're a B2C attorney, so like a family law attorney, if you wanna invest time and energy or upgrade your account in Avo, that's also a good place because basically you're piggybacking off of their SEO. So when people search for your name, you are populated on those. So it's we call those like online directories, but you can kind of like we have clients that are like only use that for for reviews, their Avo page like help with their SEO there. but there's like very simple things that you can do to have a a solid presence, like a initially online. Yeah. I love that. And With their brand, how important is messaging to a brand? So important. Why? I think it's it's one of the most overlooked things. it can be the difference between someone really understanding what you do and who you serve, and all like it's like it Mod one of my favorites is I always use the example of an attorney. If they're at an event, they'll they might say something like, It's like, like, who are you? What do you do? And you're like, I'm a litigator. And everyone's like, Okay. and then they like don't want to talk to you. Like ever again. It's like you're the asshole that was across from me that was suing me, but you like Yeah, and that's also like, Well, what kind of litigator? Or like why should I think of you? Or do you have like an I d an ideal client that you work or industry? Like, do you do a lot of like construction law litigation? tell me more. so if you don't have your messaging honed in, it it quickly can turn into like you're getting the wrong referrals or no referrals. I like to use your friends as a litmus test and be like, Can you explain what I do? And if they can't explain, then like explain it to them a little bit and see how they regurgitate it back and you can kind of use them as like a sounding board. But Ooh, I like that. I like that. What if you have friends that are like Chat GPT where they just want to tell you everything Michelle, that's so great. It's so wonderful. is there like a precursor you're like, hey, I want you to look at this, but I want you to be like you're from Boston? You know. I want the Massachusetts honest response. Yes. I mean, yeah, I guess that's regionally dependent. I think I'm lucky I'm in New England that I can ask for honest response. Yeah. Maybe you should call Neira a New England friend. Make a New England fan. There you go. There you go. Yeah. Even though she's really nice, she'll still give you the honest to tell you that shit. It's awful, you know. and I like when I'm on like a discovery call with someone and they're like, I think I wanna do this and I'm like, Well, why? And then they'll tell me why and I'm like, Do you want the real answer from me or do you want me to sugarcoat they're like telling me. Do they ever say I want you to sugarcoat it? No, no, no. They want to know the truth. Yeah. Yeah. But it it I but I like how you asked that because it then softens the blow to their ego, you know? and and I think it's important to get that third party to look at it because We're just too close to it. And our employees are too close to it too. That and sometimes we don't realize that our online brand does not match our in person brand, right? Yes. Yeah. I see that a lot. It's like one of the top things you can do is like after you've gone to a networking event, go bu pull up your website and be like, does this match what I'm telling people? And a lot of the time you're like, shoot, I haven't updated this for five years. And the way I started my business, I used to do like for example, I've I I've had people be like, my god, I used to do like these three practice areas and now I only do this one. And I didn't even realize my LinkedIn still says I do the three. And they're like, God, like Yes. Yeah. And you say, God, but we aren't like I mean, attorneys aren't in this stuff all the time, right? They're not like And they don't even realize that they haven't changed it and be like, and I'm saying this because this just happened to me, where I was like, wait a second, video services is still on my damn website. I'm like, I don't get And of course I want to blame everybody else for that mistake. And I'm like, I'm the only one to blame. I finally saw it, right? And it's like, yeah. So making sure that it's accurate, right? Because again, it's that building of trust. When you're in person and you're online, you're digital, are those things in sync? really are they in sync? I think is just such a it's such a valuable aspect, you know. Now now speaking of, besides the mistake of you have no idea what the hell's on your website, what are some other mistakes that you are seeing lawyers make online? Ooh, that's a very good question. The first thing that came to mind is that they're just not online. yes. Yeah. That's the first thing. I think it's more common. Listen, like most attorneys have a good sense of like what they should and shouldn't be doing online. Obviously they're not necessarily presenting the right or strongest message or maybe like their posts aren't effective. I feel like that's common. But it's not most of the time you're not seeing something they shouldn't do. It's that they're not doing it at all. Which I think is worse. the other thing that I see sometimes, and it depends on the person. So I've had a few clients in the pla in the past that have wanted, for example, to talk about like a social issue or something that's not, you know, like politics can get complicated so quickly. Yeah. And I think the vast majority of professionals choose not to really participate for the most part. But there's some people who feel very strongly and feel vi it feels Inauthentic to them to not post about it. So I wouldn't say it's necessarily a mistake I see. However, it is a critical like conversation that needs to be had, and preferably with someone like myself, that can like walk you through it. because there's ups and downs to like taking a stance on something that's like unrelated to your business and polarizing, or, you know, like that's that's that's probably the one the other thing that comes to mind is like think critically if like if you feel so authentic and strong about something that you want to post about it, that's fine. Just know what you're getting into. And wrong with that. Yes. Understand what risk. But there also could be huge reward too. And so it it could really work out well. But a lot of times people are like, I didn't realize that this was gonna happen. You're like Right. Yeah. And it can even be a little it can even be a little more like I would say the more common thing is we'll even have on calls with our clients like a relatively controversial opinion about their practice area. and in a lot of cases it's helpful to post about that because you're gonna attract the right clients, but you it requires like some nuance to it to do it the right effective way. Yeah. Yeah. So going back to your first one, visibility, not even being on, why do you think a lot of lawyers don't have that visibility at all? I think they're busy. I think they don't know what they're doing. I think they overthink it so much. No. Overthink it? What? Come on. Even even my experience working with them, it can take a year or two until they finally get for example, like one of the things that I'm trying to pull from them, then they'll finally be like, Okay, I finally like amount ready to post about this. And I'm like, Okay, like took me coaching you this long to get there. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much fear. So much fear. Yeah. And you just need to, I always tell people when I have friends ask about they want to start posting on LinkedIn, I'm like, you have to feel uncomfortable at first. Yep. It's influencers. If you were to find their first videos that they ever posted, they're bad. Bad. so bad. or they didn't have a like they were just a normal person and now they can like hold a vlogging camera. in a public setting and be perfectly comfortable. But it's like that's practice. That's repetition repetition. It's being comfortable with the fact that you look like an idiot sometimes. Yes. Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. And not even an idiot. You but you are potentially embarrassing yourself a little bit. Yeah. You think that you are. And here's the God honest truth. Nobody's thinking about you. They just aren't. They may see that for a hot second and move on with the rest of their lives, So, it's like get over yourself because nobody is thinking about you. Nobody cares that much about you. Yeah, yeah. No, nobody does. You know, yeah. And going back to the Most people are good people. Yeah. What was that? Most people are good people. They want to support you. Yeah. I agree. I mean, and like people say, God, how do how can you work with attorneys? They're all assholes. No, they're not. Most of them, I mean the majority of them are really good people who are advocating for their clients and they do a great job of that. The problem that I see is that they aren't visible and they think because I've got ESQ or J D after my name, people are going to know who I am. And that's just the God on us, like that's a mistake, you know. Like you had said, they're just not doing it. And and I love the analogy of if you are trying to find your a mate, like you're like, I want to find a partner, and you go, Okay, this is the type of person that I really want to meet. And then you go into your bedroom, you close the door, you close all your blinds, you turn off all your electronics, and you go, God, I hope she comes through that, or God, I hope he comes through that door. Exactly. That's ludicrous. But we sometimes don't think about it with. Our practice because we're like, but I used to work and some people know who I am. So why is my phone not ringing with potential clients? Yeah, because you're not visible. Yeah. Don't make that mistake. Yeah. Don't make that mistake. Or the worst is like if you're not the one of the more common things is that if you're not consistent and top of mind, they're gonna think of someone else. Yeah. You're gonna have this other Joe Schmo they met at an event and they're gonna be you're gonna be like you're gonna be like Gary, why didn't you think of me? And you're gonna be like, my god, I forgot about you. You don't exist for me. Yeah. The last time I saw you was two years ago. Like Yeah. And you're like, but I'm still here. I'm still alive. I'm still practicing. I'm still good at this. You like me. And you're like, I do like you. I forgot. Yeah. Just because you weren't top of mind because I never see you, i.e., you're not visible. You're behind the scenes, you know, doing great work, but you're not marketing your practice well. and and your brand might not be consistent with who you are and what you stand for as well, you know. So now if someone listening wanted to evaluate their own digital brand today, what are the first few things that you would tell them to look at? My the first thing is we touched on this already, but if you're networking in person, which most people most of us are, or Zoom or what however you want to network, pay attention to how you're talking about your practice. And then go and look at what you have already, whether that's like only in LinkedIn or only a website or only a profile on like super lawyers, and go check. Does it even have the right firm or is it your old firm? did you start your own firm, but you still says you work at XYZ firm? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like does it say you still practice that law that you don't? Or have you niche down, which I encourage most people to niche down? there's a reason why they call it the riches and the niches. Have you noticed that you're talking about a specific practice area or industry and it doesn't mention it at all anywhere on any of your materials? Yeah. Yep. I think that's the most approachable thing to start with is like 'Cause I I am I do it constantly too. It's like the way I message myself slowly transforms with every conversation that I have and gets better or different or changes depending on like what's going on in the business. and I'll reevaluate like how does the messaging match that and like does anything need to be updated constantly? Like always. It's a it's a what's the word that we used the other day? Like it shouldn't a set it and forget it. It's like a living document. Everything should be like a living document. Yeah. Yep. And it's always evolving because we are evolving. So why is our marketing not evolving? and you're you're absolutely right. And I think that that is brilliant advice to have that awareness of what am I saying? And does that actually jive with what is online? Because if it doesn't, the easiest thing is change it. Like update it. And if yeah, and if you don't know how to change it. Fucking call Michelle. Her and her team can have you change it. and if you don't have time, we got you. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's just those kind of things that drive people crazy, but they are like, I don't know what to do, so I'm not gonna do anything at all. Yeah. That's ludicrous. Like, we all know that there are wonderful, capable, excellent providers of different services. Use those people. It saves you a lot of time, but it also enables you to grow. It also enables you to be more confident in your marketing. Yep. You know, and then you can show up as opposed to, shit. When somebody says, yeah, Michelle, I saw your website and you're like, Really? 'Cause I have Yeah, don't look at that. You're like, don't look at it. If you yeah, that's the other thing. You know you know you have a problem when you say, no. Like if your brain immediately goes to like Yeah. Sag to sit down. my god. I haven't even been on my what did it say? shit. I haven't updated it. So don't do that. Like whatever you do. Don't do that. Like because I I mean, your online brand, like you had said, is such an important element for us in regards to marketing. And the greatest part is we get to control it. But if you're not aware of it and you are not being purposeful with it, then it's just gonna go to shit, you know? And Bringing that awareness to the listeners, Michelle, is amazing. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. The amount of information you know is absolutely incredible. I mean, I could talk to you for fucking days about you know, retail marketing. But we only There's a reason I'm still doing this. Yeah. I like it. Exactly. Even though you're still doing it in Maine. My I know. I love it. No, I hate it. I hate it. Nobody come here. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. Now, if you want to get a hold of Michelle, we're gonna put all of her contact information into the show notes. Click on those links, get a hold of her, just have a conversation with her. Look, look how fucking pleasant she is. She's not one of these, I'm gonna just ram it down your throat and this is what you need and only this. She's from Maine. Well well, she's from Baltimore, but she lives in Maine. She's not like you know, some other people. which will go unnamed anyways. but thank you, Michelle. thank you for everything that you do for your clients, and for the the legal world. I really appreciate and thank you for sharing your wisdom with the audience. Thank for having me. yeah. I and we're gonna have to do this one again. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you. That's it for today's episode of Unfuck Your Legal Marketing. If you got a spark of inspiration. Learn something new, or at least got a good laugh. Make sure to follow, rate, and share this with someone who needs to hear it. Thanks for hanging out with me. And remember, the best marketing is the one that actually sounds like you. See you next time.