Latest / Kvetch & Release / Online gambling risks two years in

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Online gambling risks two years in · Kvetch & Release

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to The Shift with guest host John Litcky
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  Speaker 1: on AM eight hundred. Hey, we're back John Litkey here
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  Speaker 1: on AM eight hundred CKLW. It's been two years since
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  Speaker 1: the government in Ontario legalized virtual casinos and the Toronto
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  Speaker 1: Star has put out a story that is saying that
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  Speaker 1: gambling addicts say that the province has made it nearly
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  Speaker 1: impossible to quit even when they want to. And why
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  Speaker 1: is this. Well, if you want to self exclude from
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  Speaker 1: every single casino in the province, you just have to
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  Speaker 1: sign up once and then you are banned from every
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  Speaker 1: casino you can't walk in when you scan your license,
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  Speaker 1: you won't be able to get through the door. But
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  Speaker 1: if you want to do that with Ontario's new online
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  Speaker 1: gambling market, it's not as simple, and it's not a
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  Speaker 1: simple process of just signing up once. You would have
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  Speaker 1: to go and sell exclude from eighty separate websites and
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  Speaker 1: businesses that are offering this online gambling, of course, exposing
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  Speaker 1: yourself to potentially more online gambling. Experts are saying that
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  Speaker 1: this is a recipe for relapsing. Joining me right now
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  Speaker 1: to discuss as our member of provincial Parliament for Windsor
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  Speaker 1: West Lisa Gretzky. Lisa, when I first started looking at
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  Speaker 1: the rollout of online gambling, I was thinking a lot
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  Speaker 1: about the rollout of a roll up, excuse me for
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  Speaker 1: the pun of legalized cannabis. And what they did with
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  Speaker 1: legalized cannabis was they simply kept all of the same
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  Speaker 1: legislation pretty well from alcohol when it came to marketing
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  Speaker 1: and advertising, and you weren't allowed to, for example, get
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  Speaker 1: the trailer park Boys to have a brand of cannabis.
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  Speaker 1: They got slapped on the wrist for that and they
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  Speaker 1: were hit down with it. But here in Ontario we
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  Speaker 1: decided to allow for celebrity endorsements of all of these
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  Speaker 1: different businesses. And I remember just being inundated on my phone,
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  Speaker 1: on the computer, on television, on radio waves. There were
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  Speaker 1: so many commercials and some very very notable people. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: in one case, I remember Wayne Gretzky was one of
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  Speaker 1: the voices. I want to know what you think about
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  Speaker 1: how this process has evolved over two years, and if
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  Speaker 1: it's the best rollout that there could have been.
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  Speaker 2: No, I don't think it was the best role out
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  Speaker 2: there could have been. It was a recipe for disaster,
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  Speaker 2: right from the beginning, I had raised the alarm bells
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  Speaker 2: both locally and at Queen's Park. I had colleagues raising
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  Speaker 2: the alarm bells. We had people that struggle with gambling
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  Speaker 2: addictions raising the alarm bells. I remember doing a press
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  Speaker 2: conference locally with the Cassidy who was a president of
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  Speaker 2: four four four and represented the casino at the time,
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  Speaker 2: where we were raising alarm bells about the government just
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  Speaker 2: kind of turning it into the wild wild West and
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  Speaker 2: opening up the market with no real checks and balances
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  Speaker 2: in place. And so now we are seeing as many
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  Speaker 2: had predicted that there are there's an increase in the
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  Speaker 2: number of people who are finding themselves addicted to online gambling,
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  Speaker 2: and again there's no checks and balance. We talked about
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  Speaker 2: the books and mortar, the land based casinos where you
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  Speaker 2: can one time exclude yourself and it's done at every
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  Speaker 2: land based casino across the province. And you know, there's
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  Speaker 2: stories and people who who when they are trying to
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  Speaker 2: self exclude from these online casinos are being either having
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  Speaker 2: a very difficult time navigating the system or are being
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  Speaker 2: enticed to stay on. You know, we'll give you extra
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  Speaker 2: credits if you do this, or that kind of thing,
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  Speaker 2: or put money in deposit money into this online gambling
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  Speaker 2: company in order to then get to somebody where you
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  Speaker 2: can say I want to self exclude, I mean need
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  Speaker 2: certainty that they're saying, well, even buy your way out
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  Speaker 2: of gambling on our site, right, they're just giving us
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  Speaker 2: money for free kind of thing. I mean, it's absurd,
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  Speaker 2: and the government was warned about it, there were experts
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  Speaker 2: warning them about it, and they just charged s will
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  Speaker 2: speed ahead, and specifically on the celebrity endorsement. I was
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  Speaker 2: proud to be on a bill with colleagues of mine
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  Speaker 2: also trying to ban the use of celebrity celebrities in
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  Speaker 2: the advertising for those online gambling sites. And yes, one
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  Speaker 2: of them shares a last name with me and his family,
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  Speaker 2: but that doesn't exclude. It doesn't change the fact that
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  Speaker 2: by using celebrities, by using athletes, the goal is to
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  Speaker 2: make it more enticing for especially younger people to get
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  Speaker 2: onto these sites.
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  Speaker 1: Well, absolutely, so that's why you bring in the celebrity
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  Speaker 1: endorsements because it helps to get the eyes on the product.
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  Speaker 1: Now we know that the online gambling market is it's
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  Speaker 1: very popular, Lisa, one point nine million accounts were wagered
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  Speaker 1: eighteen point four billion dollars from April to June alone,
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  Speaker 1: and it did bring in a lot of money for
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  Speaker 1: the government in seven hundred and ninety million dollars. I
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  Speaker 1: don't think you're not against the expansion of gambling, are you,
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  Speaker 1: or do you think that there just needs to be
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  Speaker 1: more regulations involved in it.
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  Speaker 2: There needed to be more regulations, more checks and balances
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  Speaker 2: in place, so they just opened up the market is
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  Speaker 2: what they did without regulation or checks and balances. Now,
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  Speaker 2: since we brought forward the bill around banning celebrities, the
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  Speaker 2: AGCO has moved in that direction somewhat. But the point
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  Speaker 2: when you look at what those online gambling sites bring
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  Speaker 2: in and the number of people who are finding themselves
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  Speaker 2: a great financial risk. Again, it is an addiction, it
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  Speaker 2: is an illness. And you look at our land based
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  Speaker 2: casinos and all the checks and balances that are in
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  Speaker 2: place and the income, the revenue that they generate, I
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  Speaker 2: mean just in Windsor alone, the money it goes directly
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  Speaker 2: back into the municipality and then also into our public
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  Speaker 2: services at a provincial level, healthcare, education, the number of
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  Speaker 2: jobs that creates in our communities and other communities. But
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  Speaker 2: by gaming it's not creating jobs for local people. It
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  Speaker 2: puts actually local jobs at risk. It puts those that
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  Speaker 2: might be a little more vulnerable to addiction at greater risk.
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  Speaker 2: And again there are those checks and balances and the
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  Speaker 2: revenue that it brings into the province. I don't think
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  Speaker 2: that that it offsets the risks for all those other
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  Speaker 2: things that I've mentioned. So what we need is the government,
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  Speaker 2: who I know they're saying, you know, they're going to
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  Speaker 2: look at it now, but we're two years in and
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  Speaker 2: it could be another two years before they actually figure
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  Speaker 2: out better regulation. We can't wait two years. The government
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  Speaker 2: should have had this plan in place before they actually
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  Speaker 2: rolled it all out.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know it's frustrating as well. They went
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  Speaker 1: and they created this whole new organization of I gaming
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  Speaker 1: to oversee it all. But we already had the OLG,
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  Speaker 1: we already had the AGCO. I think you could have
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  Speaker 1: gone and put it somewhere else without having to go
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  Speaker 1: and pick a new board of directors for example, that
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  Speaker 1: are coming in. And they didn't have institutional knowledge that
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  Speaker 1: these other industries already have. But as you know, it's
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  Speaker 1: not the only thing that's being expanded by this government.
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  Speaker 1: Of course we have alcohol expansion happening as well, and
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  Speaker 1: I just want to just run down something for you
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  Speaker 1: because I'm just I'm trying to see consistency sometimes with
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  Speaker 1: this government and that's a hard thing to do. So
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  Speaker 1: you can you can buy cigarettes tobacco whenever you want
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  Speaker 1: in the province. Now. You can buy alcohol from seven
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  Speaker 1: am to eleven pm at convenience stores that are licensed
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  Speaker 1: up to one forty five pm at bars and restaurants
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  Speaker 1: that stay open. Cannabis can be purchased from nine am
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  Speaker 1: to eleven pm. None of these things fall into the
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  Speaker 1: same hours. It seems to me like if you're going
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  Speaker 1: to go and offer sin products that it should be
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  Speaker 1: consistent across the board.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there should be some real plan in place, just
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  Speaker 2: just a plan. That's that's I guess that would be
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  Speaker 2: the consistency we see with the government as they launch
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  Speaker 2: things are very focus some things like alcohol and gambling,
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  Speaker 2: like expanding it without actually having a plan in place
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  Speaker 2: and consistency across the board. And I will say the
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  Speaker 2: leaders talking about the expansion of alcohol or gambling, we're
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  Speaker 2: talking about things where people are vulnerable again to forming
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  Speaker 2: an addiction or relapsing into an addiction. Yet the government
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  Speaker 2: is not properly funding the vital healthcare services that people
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  Speaker 2: need when they are struggling with addiction. So it's much
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  Speaker 2: more difficult for people to actually get the help that
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  Speaker 2: they need. So you would think that the government would
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  Speaker 2: look at what supports need to be in placed when
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  Speaker 2: they're talking about modern modernization or expansion of alcohol sales
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  Speaker 2: or expansion of gambling, But that's not the case. And
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  Speaker 2: so you know, I'm not hearing from the folks that
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  Speaker 2: work within the gambling sector or within the you know,
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  Speaker 2: those folks from the LCBO that work there. Everybody's open
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  Speaker 2: to modernization or expanding alcohol sales. That it's the concern
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  Speaker 2: around the fact that this government consistently, the four Conservatives,
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  Speaker 2: consistently leak to do something like this without thinking about
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  Speaker 2: the real consequences of it and without having all of
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  Speaker 2: the other pieces of the puzzle in place.
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  Speaker 1: Well, again, just looking here at this Toronto Star investigation,
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  Speaker 1: they've shown that calls to Ontario's gambling helpline have increased
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  Speaker 1: on a pretty well a straight line from June of
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  Speaker 1: twenty one at roughly zero up to at its high
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  Speaker 1: peak of April of this year at two hundred and
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  Speaker 1: fifty six. It also shows that there are more calls
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  Speaker 1: that are coming in for online gambling addictions are skewing younger,
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  Speaker 1: and they're skewing mail. And you know, I'm concerned that
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  Speaker 1: something that is so accessible on people's phones, you know,
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  Speaker 1: maybe someone younger goes and grabs dad's driver's license and
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  Speaker 1: signs up for something like without having stricter regulations that
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  Speaker 1: are in place, I see an industry that is right
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  Speaker 1: for abuse on every level.
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  Speaker 2: Quite frankly, absolutely, we have a when I get a
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  Speaker 2: press conference at Cluse Park and the colleague of mine
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  Speaker 2: and a gentleman who struggles with gambling addiction, and he
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  Speaker 2: talked about how easy it was. He sat with his
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  Speaker 2: young son and how easy it was for his son
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  Speaker 2: to get around the system and register for an account
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  Speaker 2: and gamble his underage son. He sat with them to
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  Speaker 2: make the point of how easy it is, and that's
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  Speaker 2: why he was saying the government needs to really think
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  Speaker 2: about how they're doing this expansion. Again, the government doesn't
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  Speaker 2: seem to really plan. I had when it comes to
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  Speaker 2: these things we talked about out of the UK. There
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  Speaker 2: was a study done out of the UK where they
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  Speaker 2: talked about the number of young people and how they're
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  Speaker 2: getting younger and younger who are developing gambling addiction because
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  Speaker 2: of online gambling, and the increase of suicides related to
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  Speaker 2: those addictions, where they get into a financial situation at
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  Speaker 2: a young agent feel hope with and decides that the
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  Speaker 2: only way out is suicide. And that's something we've raised
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  Speaker 2: and experts have raised here in Ontario, and I think
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  Speaker 2: that's what we're starting to see is an uptick. And
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  Speaker 2: I want to point out those are only people who
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  Speaker 2: actually contact the healthline. That's a small sample of the
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  Speaker 2: number of people that are struggling with gambling addiction, you know,
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  Speaker 2: those that are not reaching out for help. And so
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  Speaker 2: our concern is that we're going to see what they
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  Speaker 2: saw in the UK, where you're going to find more
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  Speaker 2: and more people struggling with addictions, not reaching out for
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  Speaker 2: help and potentially feeling like the only way out in
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  Speaker 2: by suicide.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think if if there's one answer that's a
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  Speaker 1: silver bullet, I think fixing this self exclusion system would
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  Speaker 1: be the easiest, lowest hanging fruit. Looking at this piece
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  Speaker 1: from the Star, they say it took their reporters more
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  Speaker 1: than six hours to self exclude themselves from all of
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  Speaker 1: Ontario's gambling websites, often having to go to multiple websites
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  Speaker 1: to do it, even if owned by the same corporation.
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  Speaker 1: They said, when it came to self excluding from all
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  Speaker 1: of the province's casinos five minutes, let's just have a
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  Speaker 1: parody in that and just make it the same.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely you think and you think like these are these
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  Speaker 2: are reporters, journalists that work for the Toronto Star that
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  Speaker 2: we're doing it, not someone who has an addiction. So
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  Speaker 2: what is that like for someone who has a gambling
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  Speaker 2: addiction who is then as they're trying to navigate, uh,
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  Speaker 2: you know all those different sights to stuff exclude where
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  Speaker 2: they're being told, well, we can exclude you for two months,
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  Speaker 2: but then you're back back to, you know, gam being
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  Speaker 2: able to gamble again. Or are you sure you really
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  Speaker 2: want to go? Are you sure you really want to
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  Speaker 2: exclude because we'll give you we'll give you some free
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  Speaker 2: credits if you say, you know, like, imagine what that's
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  Speaker 2: like for someone who has an addiction and how difficult
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  Speaker 2: that is for them to navigate. It's I think it is.
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  Speaker 2: It is really irresponsible of the government, the direction that
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  Speaker 2: they have gone. They could have modeled after our land
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  Speaker 2: based casinos, so it's you know, one exclusion and you're
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  Speaker 2: excluded across the entire Slovinson. They chose not to take
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  Speaker 2: the time to do that.
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  Speaker 1: We have twenty years of experience operating casinos here in Windsor,
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  Speaker 1: in the province of Ontario. We were the first in
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  Speaker 1: the country, and I just it's just staggering that they
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  Speaker 1: decided to throw away all that institutional knowledge, toss it
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  Speaker 1: in the garbage can and start fresh. It's not surprising
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  Speaker 1: that problems do develop when you do something like that.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I would agree with you. And they had
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  Speaker 2: other models that they could have gone with and they
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  Speaker 2: just chose not to. It was a big rush to
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  Speaker 2: get it done and rather than listening to the experts
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  Speaker 2: and people with lived experience struggling with addiction, they just
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  Speaker 2: rushed ahead without really having a proper plan in place.
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  Speaker 1: Brought in that. They brought in a lot of money,
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  Speaker 1: but who knows what the other impacts are going to be.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Lisa, thank you so much for your time. I really
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  Speaker 1: do appreciate it joining me this afternoon.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you, I appreciate the time.
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  Speaker 1: All the best Lisa Gretzky is our member of provincial
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  Speaker 1: Parliament for Windsor West