Latest / When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom / The Osage Nation Serial Murders that legitimized the FBI

Transcript

The Osage Nation Serial Murders that legitimized the FBI · When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom

• 0:20
  Everybody in serial killer country.
• 0:22
  My name is Brittany. Ransom, my name is Brian Joyner.
• 0:24
  And this is when Killers get caught a podcast of a deep dives
• 0:27
  into the lives. And psyches of the Killer's, we
• 0:29
  love to learn about Out each week.
• 0:30
  Brian, I will find a True Crime Story that resonated with us.
• 0:33
  Then I'll discuss one well-known or lesser known killer, and go
• 0:36
  deep into their childhood lives methodology.
• 0:38
  And most importantly how they got caught and then we'll get a
• 0:42
  little spooky. We'll learn something about
• 0:43
  Cryptids or the supernatural with Brian.
• 0:46
  Yeah. Before we start, I just want to
• 0:48
  remind you all that our patreon is live.
• 0:51
  There are four tiers from five to fifty dollars.
• 0:53
  That offer you loads of fun things like a special extra
• 0:58
  podcast where Brian and I discussed.
• 1:00
  Spear see, theories, or you could even have a Groupon to
• 1:05
  chat. But not one on one, but you get
• 1:08
  to talk to us. Ask us any questions you want.
• 1:10
  Its private. It's on the Discord.
• 1:12
  It's just a fun. You know, ask us anything kind
• 1:15
  of thing that you can do every month.
• 1:18
  Yeah, if you're interested in March, our website is
• 1:20
  www.pevs.com and that's where you can find links to pretty
• 1:25
  much everything we do. So, starting out this week in
• 1:28
  True Crime, I I have been following a case.
• 1:34
  I'm just the, the headline in itself is just interesting but
• 1:38
  I'm telling you, is that a 17 year old boy has been charged
• 1:41
  with the murder of his twin sister.
• 1:43
  His name is Benjamin Elliot and her name is Megan.
• 1:47
  He stabbed her in the next several times on Wednesday of
• 1:50
  this week. Oh, now Benjamin claims that he
• 1:54
  woke up between 2:30 and three in the morning, standing in his
• 1:57
  sister's bedroom with a knife and that he didn't realize he
• 2:02
  was in there. In fact, he thought he I was
• 2:04
  dreaming, he removed the knife and sat down beside her and
• 2:08
  called 911 according to claims, he's meeting Court.
• 2:13
  Megan Elliott was pronounced dead at the scene.
• 2:16
  The 911 operator and instructed Benjamin on how to perform CPR,
• 2:20
  which he was in the process of doing when the deputies arrived
• 2:23
  at his house. Mmm, Moments after the call, the
• 2:27
  parents woke up. There's audio of them screaming
• 2:32
  after discovering that their daughter was dead.
• 2:35
  And so now, this is popping up in a bunch of my True Crime
• 2:38
  groups that I'm a member of them, Facebook and other forums
• 2:41
  with people. I'll just going, do we really
• 2:44
  think that he was sleepwalking? Hey, there are cases where, you
• 2:50
  know, the sleepwalking is a, you know, it plays a big role in it,
• 2:54
  so There have been some news reports that said though that
• 2:57
  the parents initially didn't want to allow the police in
• 3:00
  like, this is still something that is in the process of
• 3:04
  happening on interesting. So we shall see what's going on.
• 3:09
  Yeah. It's just very interesting and I
• 3:11
  mean, has he have you reported history of him at sleepwalking
• 3:15
  or anything like that? Like in an appearance on winning
• 3:18
  the police and I mean, I would like it depends what time in the
• 3:21
  morning that he called the cops and the cops came.
• 3:23
  So he's saying that he Discovered that he was awake
• 3:27
  like he woke up and was like, oh no, this isn't a dream at about
• 3:29
  3 a.m. but the police only got there at 4:45 which is a big gap
• 3:36
  from when he says he realized that he did it and when they
• 3:41
  called hmm they had they detain him.
• 3:46
  You know there's been now at this point like an initial like
• 3:48
  hearing and what. Yeah, yeah, but yeah.
• 3:54
  They, they have the knife, they have everything, they had to get
• 3:57
  search, warrants to go, look in the house.
• 4:03
  It's just it's really interesting.
• 4:04
  This happened in Georgia by the way, of course Georgia.
• 4:08
  Mmm. So yeah.
• 4:12
  The police are officially charging him with murder
• 4:15
  regardless. As to what the family said,
• 4:16
  they're like listen the y'all can work that out in court with
• 4:19
  the lawyers but this is a clear cut and dry murder case.
• 4:23
  So he's already been like arraigned on the base charges
• 4:29
  His bond set at 100 thousand dollars.
• 4:32
  Oh, wow. Yeah.
• 4:36
  But like, we don't know anything about that.
• 4:37
  So I'm guessing that's going to come up as a proper
• 4:40
  investigation happens, right? Because you have a history of
• 4:42
  sleepwalking, does he do strange things?
• 4:44
  I mean some Sleepwalkers just kind of walk through the house.
• 4:48
  There's actually a lady I fell in Tick.
• 4:49
  Tock she's a delightful woman but like her husband set up what
• 4:54
  it's like Sabrina spooky and she's one of those Jet Dad jokes
• 4:58
  and all the freaking puns I don't remember that she like
• 5:01
  she's a writer. Okay not there's another one
• 5:03
  that just sleepwalking through the blonde lady.
• 5:05
  She said Herbal. She also writes like spooky
• 5:08
  spooky books, too, but her They just set up cameras all over the
• 5:13
  house and there have been times that her husband has been like
• 5:18
  outside. Like you need to come inside the
• 5:20
  house and she's just like, but it's knowing some paranormal.
• 5:26
  Only one hundred percent of sleep activity stuff.
• 5:29
  And she has what's it's more than just sleepwalking.
• 5:33
  It's another issue. Where There's a complete
• 5:38
  disconnect with her brain and rest, but yeah, she's cool,
• 5:43
  she's cool and he's very funny. I would like she just will post
• 5:47
  clips of her W like of the the footage, like the cameras in her
• 5:51
  house or just walking back and forth around the house like all
• 5:54
  sorts of interesting stuff. So there's things like that, but
• 5:56
  that's more than just your basic, right?
• 5:58
  Right. Sleepwalking 7.
• 6:01
  What he did? Well what he did if he was,
• 6:04
  sleepwalking is more than your basic sleepwalking, right?
• 6:09
  So like if he doesn't have any history of this, then it's just
• 6:13
  like okay then was right was it something that was that came up
• 6:16
  in the hour? It took you to call the police?
• 6:18
  Yeah. Like did you just make this up?
• 6:23
  But yeah, I'm looking at right here to give the kid the benefit
• 6:26
  of the doubt for right now and then he killed his sister.
• 6:31
  I mean, okay, do it by accident, he probably feels terrible.
• 6:34
  If it was accident, I would assume you felt terrible but uh,
• 6:40
  So anyway onto my thing. So this one's a little bit
• 6:46
  funnier than Britney's. So apparently the streets of New
• 6:51
  York. Apparently just Queens is being
• 6:55
  terrorized by a rooster A rooster.
• 7:03
  Rooster, it's very Rising. I was looking up the lady with
• 7:07
  the sleepwalking and then my brain just connected.
• 7:10
  Rooster. Yeah, yeah.
• 7:13
  So apparently, there's a, these are rooster apparently well
• 7:19
  known in the neighborhood as well and it just is attacking
• 7:25
  people. One person says that, I was
• 7:30
  just, you know, usually just casually walking, you know, the
• 7:34
  hedge, my bus to go to work. When I felt a peck, oh my left
• 7:39
  hand. And if that this thing kept
• 7:42
  coming is so vicious, almost evil is like Magpie levels of of
• 7:49
  bird violent. Blood was gushing.
• 7:52
  Oh my God. I was trying to apply pressure
• 7:54
  to it and it kept charging at v-0.
• 7:58
  Oh man. Okay.
• 8:02
  And like I said, the Rusev's does have a reputation in the
• 8:05
  neighborhood and people who live in the area told me if you see
• 8:10
  that they've been terrorized for years by this rooster.
• 8:15
  So I'm not sure if this is just a random wild rooster to has
• 8:19
  just set up shop in Queens, but does this belong to somebody
• 8:24
  because there's lots of people. Yeah, up there who have chickens
• 8:27
  and roosters out in their yards because they like eating the
• 8:30
  eggs. It's very, you know, gentrified
• 8:34
  neighborhood. Ask this is true.
• 8:37
  It could be just like a blow, the country white people show
• 8:41
  called a chickens. I was going to say is just that
• 8:43
  a bad thing. I mean, fresh eggs.
• 8:46
  I was going to say, Escape cockfight, horrible plan was so
• 8:52
  violent. Yes, he's like I'm ready to
• 8:53
  fight. Come on now.
• 8:54
  Where's my other was my opponents?
• 8:57
  And this person is like, I didn't sign up for this sir, and
• 9:00
  then I guess when the other neighbors they were laughing
• 9:03
  about it, like, kids can ride your scooters.
• 9:05
  You people can't walk in peace without being attacked by.
• 9:09
  What is Rooster is Rooster is terrorizing In neighborhoods and
• 9:12
  queens. Someone go out there catches
• 9:15
  rooster and fry it up. Wow, what if that's somebody's
• 9:20
  friend someone's violent friend I need to talk to her friend.
• 9:25
  You can't talk to a rooster family.
• 9:26
  That's what it wasn't. You need to sit that Rusev
• 9:29
  jammed, talk to a cat. They only understand spray
• 9:31
  bottles. This is true.
• 9:34
  This is true. But yeah, no, you sit down to
• 9:36
  this rooster down, tell them like hey I heard you out there.
• 9:38
  Terrorizing everybody you need to stop order going to Cook you?
• 9:43
  You're gonna get it? That's that's this is we're
• 9:45
  right? This is funny.
• 9:48
  Look, I like to bring the levity up in here.
• 9:51
  You always ring the bell today, I'm bringing the conspiracy but
• 9:56
  not in the way that we handle like conspiracy Crypt.
• 10:00
  This is more of a well. So,
• 10:17
  Sometimes I get to looking into things.
• 10:18
  Uh-huh. And you fall down into a rabbit
• 10:20
  hole and you can't get out of the rabbit hole until you've
• 10:22
  read everything. You can about the subject.
• 10:24
  I don't know if other people feel that way, but that's how I
• 10:26
  am. And so, what started me looking
• 10:28
  into this was that I was just looking up the FBI.
• 10:31
  And so, I was tracking back backwards to, like, when I
• 10:33
  started, you know, and, like J Edgar Hoover, and all that
• 10:37
  stuff. And imagine my surprise, when
• 10:40
  one of the FBI's first major cases involved a massive
• 10:44
  conspiracy, where members of the Osage Nation were murdered
• 10:48
  shortly after becoming the richest people in the world.
• 10:51
  After oil was discovered, beneath their reservation
• 10:55
  imagine that it's called the reign of terror and it lasted
• 10:59
  from 1921 to 1926. Now, according to Osage Nation
• 11:04
  history, there are still roughly 60 unsolved murders from this
• 11:07
  time, but ultimately the F be able the FBI was able to solve
• 11:11
  all about 24 of them. Not only is this story, just
• 11:15
  incredible. General.
• 11:17
  There's actually a movie that's supposed to come out about it in
• 11:20
  like the next couple of months. Oh, nice.
• 11:22
  It's a Scorsese film to even better.
• 11:24
  So I figured before any of us go and see this movie.
• 11:27
  I'm going to feel everybody on what happened in dosage, Hills
• 11:31
  in Oklahoma, because, boy, was it, a wild ride and I've let
• 11:36
  everybody know listening. I've been hyping this up to
• 11:38
  Brian. Now, for a little while, I was
• 11:40
  like, oh, you don't even understand it's going to blow
• 11:43
  your mind, I'm having a consistent.
• 11:45
  But before we even start anything, let's learn a little
• 11:47
  bit about the Osage Nation. So they are an indigenous tribe
• 11:52
  in America who live in Oklahoma for a pretty long time.
• 11:55
  But we have found remnants of the tribe as far east as the
• 11:58
  Ohio River and the Mississippi River dating back to 700 BC.
• 12:02
  Their name is a French version of their indigenous name which
• 12:05
  is was that shush which means mid Waters and the Dougie
• 12:10
  han-soo language. They migrated West after the
• 12:13
  17th century and archaeologists have found evidence That there
• 12:16
  were three different routes that they took.
• 12:17
  During this immigration, period, one group, followed the
• 12:20
  Missouri. Osage River to Western Central
• 12:23
  Missouri and Eastern Oklahoma. Another groom took that same
• 12:27
  river to West Central Missouri. Then another cluster of about
• 12:31
  six different groups, followed the only Ottawa River and Iowa,
• 12:35
  and they ended at the Osage River, this happened because the
• 12:39
  Iroquois invaded, the Ohio Valley, where they had been
• 12:42
  living. And there were a lot of battles.
• 12:47
  And I have to explain this because my family is linked to
• 12:53
  the Confederacy, it's referred to as the Iroquois Confederacy.
• 12:58
  It's the initial name for the five tribes, the name that we
• 13:02
  refer to is holding the shown a, those tribes are Mohawk, Oneida,
• 13:07
  that's my family. Onondaga Cayuga and Seneca later
• 13:10
  on. There was another trial, another
• 13:12
  tribe that was added. But at this time, there's only
• 13:15
  five So, when I say they were invading, this was five
• 13:22
  different tribes, invading an area.
• 13:26
  So I totally understand why the Osage people just said, I am a,
• 13:31
  yeah, yeah. Like, you know, I'm a head out,
• 13:34
  a SpongeBob style. This is too much.
• 13:37
  I'm not you, and I didn't want this, okay?
• 13:38
  Like they had a whole series of bloody battles through Kentucky,
• 13:41
  Virginia. Like they were just like, you
• 13:43
  know what, we got. Good.
• 13:47
  So from the 1700s to the 1900s, they were taking over territory.
• 13:51
  In the midwest, they were raiding their Santa Fe New
• 13:54
  Mexico. They explored Palos Verdes
• 13:56
  Peninsula on the coast of California, just before the
• 13:59
  1800s, the largest group headed up towards Oklahoma and Kansas,
• 14:03
  and there were hostilities between the Osage Nation and the
• 14:06
  Cherokee Nation that in 1839, the US government stepped in and
• 14:10
  forced all of the different dosage bands of the tribe to
• 14:13
  leave Arkansas and Oklahoma. ah, and they move them into Kansas,
• 14:18
  which is where the tribe had agreed to settle in 1825 but
• 14:22
  like, you know, Part of that time period was we conquer him?
• 14:31
  So, but the other issue was that didn't last?
• 14:34
  Because even though they had been forced into can't into
• 14:37
  Kansas, they got forced back into Oklahoma and 1871, this was
• 14:42
  actually their third and most terrible displacement, it was
• 14:45
  pretty traumatic for the tribe and there are tombstones across
• 14:49
  the entire area that show that the majority of the people who
• 14:52
  died during that third transition.
• 14:55
  We're Young mothers and infants. Wow.
• 14:57
  So it's pretty hard on the tribe in general.
• 15:01
  Now, solidly in Oklahoma, they settled in and then in 1894,
• 15:06
  large, quantities of oil, were discovered underneath a large
• 15:10
  Prairie that was owned by the tribe.
• 15:13
  The Osage - they negotiated with the US and retained the rights
• 15:17
  for the minerals, under their land. this was called the Osage
• 15:22
  allotment Act of 1906 and it said that any subsurface
• 15:26
  minerals within the Osage Nation reservation were held in a trust
• 15:29
  by the US government, but we're still tribally owned and they
• 15:33
  were paid mineral lease royalties to the tribe and this
• 15:37
  started out as like, Tribal members is called Head rights
• 15:45
  actually but those people who were a lot he's in the tribe and
• 15:48
  had that head rate would get like $100 every couple months
• 15:52
  and then all of a sudden it was a thousand dollars every couple
• 15:54
  months and then by the early like the late like nineteen
• 15:59
  teens the tribe, I received millions of dollars at this
• 16:03
  point so they were at that moment, the richest people in
• 16:07
  the entire world. Oh nice.
• 16:09
  Okay. Well, some awesome.
• 16:12
  Unfortunately, this isn't the only time that the the Osage
• 16:16
  tribe is going to have issues with this.
• 16:19
  There's a lot of really jacked up stuff that happens with that.
• 16:22
  The acts that were passed during that time period.
• 16:25
  But also recently they sued the US government for mismanagement
• 16:29
  of the trust Assets in the year 2000 and they settled for 380
• 16:33
  million dollars in 2011. So it's been 100 Years of drama
• 16:38
  with this. Yeah.
• 16:39
  But we are specifically talking about the time period.
• 16:42
  It before the reign of terror, so we're back in 1921.
• 16:46
  The US government is in all that happy about how the Osage Nation
• 16:50
  is using their wealth. We are a, we're very racist,
• 16:54
  National Nation. Now, with a very racist past and
• 16:56
  there is nothing that makes broke white folks, more upset
• 16:58
  and seeing brown people drive rolls royces and building big
• 17:02
  old beautiful houses. In fact, the Press was obsessed
• 17:05
  with stories of the rich Redskins and they took delight
• 17:09
  and trying to cast the osich. Tribe as Savage spendthrift,
• 17:14
  everybody wanted to know how these people were spending their
• 17:16
  money. So Congress, passes a law,
• 17:20
  requiring, any member of the Osage Nation, who is at least
• 17:23
  half to be appointed a guardian until they can prove that they
• 17:28
  are competent enough to spend their own money.
• 17:32
  Excuse me. Hmm.
• 17:36
  Now they, they, they set this up originally going well, a lot of
• 17:39
  these people who are getting this money, are minors their
• 17:42
  children. Who are, you know, full-blood?
• 17:46
  This is just one of the ways that the u.s. government has
• 17:48
  screwed indigenous people over using blood Quantum, but that's
• 17:51
  another conversation for another day.
• 17:55
  And the thing is, even if these miners had Parents, it didn't
• 17:58
  matter. The government was like, no, no.
• 17:59
  Everybody needs to have someone to help them with their money.
• 18:03
  No, it down to thank you. And this wasn't handled by the
• 18:05
  feds, but by local lawyers and businessmen and it was
• 18:08
  completely taken advantage of, in fact, So guys, tell you
• 18:13
  there's so much money here. The Osage Nation began
• 18:16
  auctioning off development rights to parts of their
• 18:20
  reservation for people who were hunting for oil.
• 18:24
  And according to the commissioner of Indian Affairs
• 18:26
  in 1924 alone, their revenue was 30 million dollars in 1920.
• 18:32
  That's about 400 million dollars now.
• 18:35
  So, a family of four who were all a lot, he's who had had
• 18:38
  right? Could be collecting, roughly
• 18:41
  600,000. U.s. dollars today just to
• 18:44
  exist. Wow, there's a lot of money and
• 18:47
  that guardianship was very corrupt.
• 18:54
  So this all really starts, the reign of terror May 27th, 1921
• 19:01
  local Hunters, find a badly, decomposed body of 33, year old
• 19:05
  and a brown in a Ravine and Osage County.
• 19:09
  Anna was known to go on sprees as her family called them where
• 19:12
  she got dancing and drinking with her friends until dawn.
• 19:15
  Also reminding you, we are still in the prohibition era.
• 19:18
  Mmm. So there's a lot of bootleggers
• 19:20
  and a lot of crime happening. She gone out on one of those
• 19:24
  fries on May 21st and her sister Molly Burkhart hadn't heard from
• 19:28
  her by May 24th and she was pretty alarmed there.
• 19:32
  They had a previous sister who had died in 1918 and Molly
• 19:37
  wasn't entirely sure. That one made sense, either
• 19:41
  Molly and her sisters and their parents were all on something
• 19:44
  referred to as the Osage role, which meant that they were
• 19:47
  registered tribal members and that they were all allottees who
• 19:50
  had head rate. This family all lived in his
• 19:54
  area called gray horse, which was one of the reservations
• 19:57
  older settlements. Also all the sisters were
• 20:00
  married to white man. That's going to matter later on.
• 20:05
  Now the last time the Anna had been seen was a luncheon on the
• 20:08
  21st that Molly had been the. What do you call that when you
• 20:12
  have a party host? Yeah, she was hosting a luncheon
• 20:15
  and I showed up drunk, she caused a scene with pretty much
• 20:18
  everybody there. Molly had to stop her sober up
• 20:22
  and Molly's husband's younger brother, Brian spelt with a.
• 20:26
  Why said he dropped her off at her house?
• 20:30
  Bryan, insisted that he had dropped her off at like 5:00. 30
• 20:34
  in the afternoon before going to see a show that was called
• 20:38
  bringing up father with another man in town named William Hale,
• 20:42
  who was his uncle and also one of the most powerful people in
• 20:46
  Osage County but we will also talk about William a little
• 20:49
  more. Now after three nights of not
• 20:52
  hearing from her sister Molly slack.
• 20:54
  All right y'all, let's get this going and she's like she sends
• 20:58
  people to go check on Anna's house.
• 21:00
  Nobody's been there and as servants or like she didn't come
• 21:04
  home. That's also when they learned
• 21:07
  that another Resident in on the tribe Charles Whitehorn had also
• 21:13
  vanished a week before, Anna. So, a week after an has been
• 21:19
  gone. Now, a different body is found
• 21:21
  on a hill, north of downtown Pawhuska.
• 21:25
  It had two bullets in its head, execution style, the body was so
• 21:30
  rotten, they couldn't identify it.
• 21:32
  And the only way, they figured out who it was was because the
• 21:35
  oil workers who found him checked his pockets and
• 21:38
  discovered a letter that someone had written to Charles Whitehorn
• 21:44
  Charles wife is white and Cheyenne Indian when within 24
• 21:50
  hours, they also find Anna's body in the mud in a ravine
• 21:54
  partially submerged bloated. We didn't really do autopsies,
• 21:58
  then like we do now. Instead what they had was called
• 22:01
  a Coroner's inquest a group of people show up led by a justice
• 22:05
  of the peace and they have kind of a conversation over the body
• 22:08
  at the location where they find it.
• 22:11
  So they do this with Hannah Brown.
• 22:13
  The reason why we had it like this is because after the
• 22:15
  American Revolution Americans were kind of not interested in
• 22:18
  cops citizens were afraid that they would become a symbol of
• 22:22
  Oppression America, how funny. Whoa.
• 22:28
  It's like history like repeats itself or something.
• 22:31
  Yeah. So these inquest were regular
• 22:33
  people from the town who were doing, they were filling the Gap
• 22:38
  that cops would do today. And to be fair, When these
• 22:44
  regular people found that an injustice had been done, it
• 22:47
  usually got real violent so like they would take their job, very
• 22:51
  seriously. Okay.
• 22:52
  Cool. And Anna's inquest, they
• 22:56
  realized they like put her body on like a slab and they were
• 22:59
  just checking and stuff and they were like, oh yeah, no.
• 23:01
  She got shot in the back of the head.
• 23:04
  This definitely a murder. Because originally when they
• 23:06
  first found her body, there was like well when she just got
• 23:09
  drunk and like fell over in the woods and like exposure, But
• 23:13
  there was definitely a bullet hole.
• 23:17
  So the information about both these murders.
• 23:19
  Now falls on the local sheriff and Osage County.
• 23:22
  He's a 50 year old, former Frontiersman named harf Reyes
• 23:26
  who took his job, pretty seriously.
• 23:27
  But he also liked to get a little money on the side from
• 23:30
  his favorite criminals. Pretty much.
• 23:33
  If you were like a moonshine Bootlegger, you knew that all
• 23:35
  you had to do was pay Harvard a little booze and he'd let you
• 23:38
  out. One harv learned about Anna.
• 23:41
  He was already knee-deep in investigating Charles white
• 23:43
  horns, murder. So, he was like, I need somebody
• 23:46
  else to focus on this, so he passed it off to the town
• 23:49
  Marshal, the Marshall shows up, and it's just like, okay.
• 23:53
  She was drinking at some point. Somebody definitely shot her in
• 23:57
  the back of the head. He did note that there were two
• 23:59
  sets of car tracks at the crime scene that were not from the
• 24:03
  people who had showed up, but we didn't know how to trace.
• 24:06
  The killer from just try to tracks and At best, like the
• 24:11
  best area where there was forensics, were like the major
• 24:14
  cities, your Philadelphia, your DC, Houston La New York middle.
• 24:21
  Oklahoma didn't have really any forensic knowledge at that
• 24:24
  point, they didn't even photograph the crime scene back.
• 24:27
  Oh, come on. Yeah.
• 24:30
  And even if they had, it was already incredibly contaminated
• 24:34
  by roughly a dozen people. So, I traipse through this true,
• 24:38
  this caused a bit of a media frenzy, they recovered a bullet,
• 24:42
  from Charles white horns body. And it was roughly the same size
• 24:46
  as the whole and Anna's. Had they thought it was a 33.
• 24:51
  The theories are rampant. They're like two Indians dying
• 24:55
  in the same week. They're both wealthy ocid
• 24:59
  residence. And so people are like, well is
• 25:01
  this like HH Holmes in Chicago? Or is this just a coincidence?
• 25:07
  Because that was the only like International serial type murder
• 25:12
  that we had any reference for at the time, right?
• 25:15
  Which was HH Holmes at the end of the 19th century.
• 25:19
  Some of the elders actually said that, they felt like finding
• 25:23
  that oil under the reservation was a curse on the Osage people
• 25:28
  and there was one quote from a newspaper that said after the
• 25:32
  fat checks from the great white father and I know My people will
• 25:38
  be happier. Hmm.
• 25:40
  Yes, they did refer to kind of how we say, like, Daddy Biden
• 25:44
  and we're being kind of facetious.
• 25:47
  That's kind of how they talked about checks from the government
• 25:50
  that chicks At that point. Local police were just kind of
• 25:56
  ready to be done with Anna's case, but Molly didn't wasn't
• 25:58
  having that. She reached out to William hail
• 26:01
  rich, man. Lot of land.
• 26:03
  That he purchased a lot of it from the Osage people.
• 26:05
  He had worked his way up from just being a poor cow boy to a
• 26:09
  man who now walked around town in a bow tie and recited poetry
• 26:12
  like, he thought he was that guy.
• 26:15
  He was this yet. Okay.
• 26:16
  He even had a diamond-studded pain from the Masonic Lodge so
• 26:19
  you know, yeah. Those kind of connection, okay?
• 26:23
  Hale was also a reservation, Deputy in Fairfax.
• 26:27
  Now, that was mainly an honorary title, but a lot of the people
• 26:30
  in the Osage Nation, trusted him.
• 26:32
  And so, when he talked to Molly, he was just like, I got you, IMA
• 26:36
  get Justice for your sister. There was a small hearing after
• 26:41
  this and they went over all the details of the last day of
• 26:44
  Anna's life. They interviewed everybody who
• 26:46
  had anything to do with her servants, everybody, especially
• 26:50
  brianburkhardt His responses were a little weird, but they
• 26:58
  really couldn't prove anything from the fact that like, maybe,
• 27:00
  this guy was just a little nervous on the stand.
• 27:02
  Mmm. The other issue we came into
• 27:07
  when this discussion at this hearing, was that, this area had
• 27:11
  a big issue with Outlaws because of prohibition, and the Osa
• 27:15
  chills were really nice place to hide if you were on the run
• 27:17
  because it was big, beautiful Wilderness.
• 27:20
  The other Theory though, was maybe it was somebody on the
• 27:23
  reservation and that made sense because the only people who
• 27:27
  would know, all of Anna's patterns, were people who knew
• 27:31
  her Molly was suspicious of Anna's.
• 27:35
  Urban Oda Brown and when he was questioned after Anna's death,
• 27:39
  he sobbed and put on a total show and everybody was like,
• 27:43
  yeah, he's lying. It also didn't help that.
• 27:49
  After Anna's death Brown, got a lawyer and tried to get her
• 27:52
  share of the Osage allotment, but before, after they had
• 27:57
  gotten divorced, and I had changed her will so that all of
• 28:00
  her money will go back to her mom.
• 28:03
  Lizzie. Okay, cool.
• 28:05
  Aw So Brown didn't have any legal right to get that money
• 28:11
  and at this point, the only way you could get in a lot meant was
• 28:15
  either through an inheritance or a will.
• 28:18
  So or the natural way that money flowed if you like die.
• 28:22
  So if a spouse dies, goes to the next person.
• 28:24
  Who knows the family members right?
• 28:26
  A few weeks after Anna's Funeral, a man who was in jail
• 28:30
  for forgery, sent a letter to sheriff harv and was like, I
• 28:34
  know about the murder. So, both harv and hail rush to
• 28:38
  meet this man, and he claims that Anna's ex-husband Oda.
• 28:41
  Brown paid him, eight thousand dollars to murder her.
• 28:44
  He told them, he shot her in the head and carried her body to the
• 28:47
  creek afterward which is why they hadn't been able to find
• 28:50
  the bullet because they've been looking in the wrong place.
• 28:53
  Hmm. OTA Brown was arrested, but
• 28:55
  there was no evidence that the forger had even been in Osage
• 28:59
  County, so, they just released Oda Brown.
• 29:01
  And officially, and his murder was listed.
• 29:04
  She was listed as Murdered by parties, unknown.
• 29:10
  Two months after her daughter's. Death, Lissie died as well.
• 29:14
  She had been ill for years, but it got like exponentially worse
• 29:18
  after Anna died. Okay, in fact, Molly's
• 29:24
  brother-in-law, Bill Smith was like this feels weird.
• 29:30
  And so, he started digging into the idea that Lizzy had been
• 29:33
  poisoned. This made sense because now
• 29:36
  Lizzie would have had to allotment checks, she'd be
• 29:39
  getting after Anna passed, right?
• 29:40
  It was a lot of money, unfortunately, the local police
• 29:44
  showed absolutely no interest in pursuing Lizzy as a case, an
• 29:48
  elderly ill woman died of her illness and they were not going
• 29:52
  to do an autopsy or an inquest over it.
• 29:55
  Somali puts out a two thousand dollar reward for anybody who
• 29:58
  can give her information about the murder of her sister Anna.
• 30:01
  And the Whitehorn family goes bet you.
• 30:03
  We will also put out two thousand five hundred dollars
• 30:06
  for any reward on Charles body. So now, we're looking at almost
• 30:09
  five grand for help on these two murders that were discovered on
• 30:13
  virtually the same day. Hm, it seems like it'd be a good
• 30:18
  motivator, but then har Frey has got himself charged with failing
• 30:24
  to enforce the law. Law because he'd been accepted
• 30:27
  all those bribes from bootleggers and the Oklahoma
• 30:30
  attorney general was aimin to put him in jail, so he was kind
• 30:33
  of busy. He didn't have any time to look
• 30:38
  into the crimes because he was too busy.
• 30:40
  Trying not to go to jail himself too.
• 30:42
  Busy the Oklahoma attorney general was like, Yeah, Sohail
• 30:48
  decides, I'm going to hire a private detective.
• 30:51
  Now in the early 20th century, detective agencies definitely
• 30:55
  filled the void where corrupt or underfunded or just downright
• 30:59
  inept police weren't doing their job.
• 31:05
  Just like now private detectives are very unwieldy.
• 31:10
  You never knew if you were getting somebody like Virgil
• 31:13
  vandagriff who helped capture her bone Meister, or if you were
• 31:16
  going to get a scammer who was going to take your money and
• 31:18
  run. So it was all over the place.
• 31:21
  So hail chooses the detector from Kansas City who went by the
• 31:24
  name. Pike, first name only Anna
• 31:29
  estate was like, screw it. We're going to hire detective to
• 31:32
  and then the Guardians for both Anna and Lizzie.
• 31:35
  The his name was Scott Mathis. He put together a team of
• 31:37
  privatized and so did the white whore nasty.
• 31:40
  So, at this point now the three of these people have organized
• 31:42
  roughly, 50, different detectives who are all over
• 31:49
  those. Its reservation.
• 31:51
  Wow. Trying to find information and
• 31:53
  the thing is these weren't your average attack devs.
• 31:57
  These are all people who had previously worked for the Secret
• 31:59
  Service. They were considered to be
• 32:01
  better than Pinkerton detectives.
• 32:03
  Really one of them was William J Burns who was referred to as
• 32:09
  America's Sherlock Holmes and he had a whole team of people under
• 32:13
  him. The information about them, like
• 32:16
  none of their names are listed in any of the information that
• 32:18
  you look up and the FBI. Actually just let you go on to
• 32:23
  their website and pull up all the data they have on us.
• 32:27
  So it's a lot of reading and it's very interesting but like
• 32:31
  so they were only know by code numbers and all of, if T of
• 32:36
  these code number people, kind of descended on the town and
• 32:40
  they began looking in. Every one, they were a lot of
• 32:41
  dead ends. A lot of false leads, but they
• 32:44
  did learn that Anna. Had been seen with two men from
• 32:46
  the oil fields before her death. Now while the detectives were
• 32:50
  out following every lead, a man, by the name of aw, Comstock
• 32:54
  showed up and gray horse to help as well.
• 32:57
  William Burns had investigated him in the past for trying to
• 33:00
  help an oil company trick, the Osage Tribal Council into a
• 33:03
  badly and deal. Those charges couldn't be proven
• 33:07
  but Burns decided Comstock might be a good Ally to have.
• 33:11
  Hmm. Everybody was a sub-sect, but
• 33:14
  none of them were good enough suspects.
• 33:17
  They ended up finding out that Anna was pregnant and nobody
• 33:20
  knew who the dad was. And so then, that caused a whole
• 33:23
  series of rumors that Anna could have been sleeping with other
• 33:27
  people's boyfriends or husbands. And that's why she was murdered.
• 33:31
  It was all kinds of crazy. Well, okay, so February, 1922,
• 33:36
  nine months after both Anna and Whitehorn our dad, They don't
• 33:43
  know what to hails. Detective Pike, had abandoned
• 33:45
  the case entirely, Sheriff Harvey couldn't lead, any
• 33:48
  investigation? Because he had been officially
• 33:50
  kicked out of office. They had no more leads to
• 33:52
  follow. It was looking like, they didn't
• 33:54
  have any idea who it killed Anna or Charles, and then in late
• 33:58
  February, William steps in left his house.
• 34:01
  And when he came home, a few hours later, he was visibly ill.
• 34:05
  He died before Dawn, unlike Lizzie William was only 29 and
• 34:12
  Considered to be in pretty good shape.
• 34:14
  So his death was very suspicious and when they decided to do an
• 34:17
  inquest in him they determined that he was poisoned the poison
• 34:22
  was assumed to be strychnine and even though we had the forensic
• 34:25
  ability to test for strychnine poisoning nobody did it.
• 34:31
  Why they just decide all you do is take like a flash sample.
• 34:37
  Yeah. Where I'm looking for is not
• 34:38
  flash but you know what I mean? Yeah.
• 34:42
  You see it was like just a little bit of Flesh that flesh
• 34:46
  to go March 2016. 22, another Osage woman dies of poisoning,
• 34:53
  no toxicology done on her remains either.
• 34:56
  What's going on July 28th, 1922 Joe Bates, gets whiskey, from a
• 35:04
  stranger. And after a sip of it later, he
• 35:07
  begins frothing at the mouth and collapses.
• 35:10
  He's only in his mid-30s when he He dies.
• 35:15
  At this point. The Osage Nation is dropping
• 35:19
  like flies and they all are people who coincidentally are
• 35:24
  over that. 50% threshold, meaning, they get checks There
• 35:31
  were so many cases by August that the Osage Nation reached
• 35:36
  out to Barney McBride. Who was a wealthy Oil, Man.
• 35:39
  And they were like, listen, you have connections to DC.
• 35:42
  We need help. Please go get, help.
• 35:46
  Someone is killing us, please. Right.
• 35:49
  So McBride was married to an indigenous woman and she had
• 35:52
  passed and he was trusted by the Osage people.
• 35:55
  He was actually raising their daughter within like the tribe
• 36:00
  trying to help her, you know, know her people.
• 36:01
  Right? Right.
• 36:03
  So he agreed to do it. When Barney gets to d.c.,
• 36:08
  there's a telegram waiting for him in his rooming house.
• 36:11
  From a friend of his that just says Be careful.
• 36:17
  That night when McBride went out to play Billiards, somebody
• 36:20
  kidnapped him. And in the morning they found
• 36:22
  his body. He had been stabbed over 20
• 36:25
  times been bludgeoned in the head, until his skull had
• 36:28
  collapsed and stripped naked, except for his shoes.
• 36:33
  And socks had, they not been for a business card, which had been
• 36:36
  tucked in his shoe. They wouldn't have been able to
• 36:39
  ID him, which lets me know that the people who did this wanted
• 36:43
  him to be found. This was a warning The local
• 36:47
  police in Washington were like he was probably followed from
• 36:51
  Oklahoma. And they wanted to kill him
• 36:57
  before he could talk to anybody official was.
• 37:03
  I'm sorry, there was actually an article in the Washington Post
• 37:05
  that was just like conspiracy. Like, you know, borrow, you
• 37:09
  know, oil men murdered due to conspiracy to kill Rich, Indians
• 37:14
  like, major news. And then it goes quiet, there's
• 37:20
  no suspicious deaths, there's nothing.
• 37:23
  Hmm, until February of 1923 This time, it started again, Henry
• 37:29
  Rowan, 40 years old found in his car Frozen, but he definitely
• 37:35
  didn't die from freezing, because there were two bullets
• 37:39
  in the back of his head just like, with Charles Whitehorn,
• 37:43
  there's making this stuff. Obvious, like, what we're gonna
• 37:46
  just like with, Anna, the deputies and Marshall show up at
• 37:49
  the Ravine. They look at the body.
• 37:51
  They noticed there are trademarks and the frozen mud
• 37:55
  from that moment on every OCT. As had electric lights put
• 37:58
  outside of their houses, and thing is, this would have been
• 38:01
  seen as like a really bougie thing to do.
• 38:06
  Because everybody didn't have light like that in the nineteen
• 38:10
  a time, like, everybody didn't have the ability to drown your
• 38:13
  house and light like we do now, it was expensive but they got
• 38:16
  the money to do that, right? Well, that's what they're like,
• 38:18
  oh, these people, they have lights on all night long outside
• 38:20
  their houses, but they had that so that if they heard something
• 38:23
  outside their house, they could look and be like, yep.
• 38:28
  Play it. Safe.
• 38:30
  Molly and her family were still looking for a killer.
• 38:34
  Bill Smith is like I know this is okay, I'm on to something
• 38:39
  here, he's doing his own separate that's Molly's
• 38:42
  brother-in-law. Married to her sister Rita and
• 38:46
  he's just like I'm some is going on here.
• 38:49
  I'm a follow this lead. He's doing this all on his own
• 38:51
  on a stick tape. Hmm.
• 38:54
  And Bill realized he must have been onto something because they
• 38:57
  started hearing people skulking around the house at night so
• 39:01
  much so that he and Rita had trouble sleeping.
• 39:05
  So they moved a month after Romans death this time.
• 39:10
  That was the house closer to the center of Fairfax where they had
• 39:12
  a lot of neighbors, whereas, before they were out more in the
• 39:15
  countryside in March, a Man shows up at their door and as
• 39:23
  like, I heard you So and farmland and bills.
• 39:26
  Like you are mistaken, sir, and Bill told his friends at the
• 39:30
  man, looked like he was casing the place.
• 39:33
  Then all the neighbors. Dogs started, dying, one by one.
• 39:36
  All poisoned, come on. Bill Tells A friend of his, I'm
• 39:39
  pretty sure I'm gonna die soon. Hmm.
• 39:42
  So on March 9th, Bill drives a friend to a Bootleggers Ranch on
• 39:46
  the western side of the reservation.
• 39:48
  This Bootlegger is Henry grammar, he owned a ranch, and
• 39:51
  he was a well-known outlaw. With connections to the Kansas
• 39:54
  mob. So bill, and his friend got to
• 39:57
  the ranch grammar is not there. So they just grab a couple jars
• 39:59
  of whiskey. Have a couple of swigs, they
• 40:02
  drop, bill off back at home Rita's there.
• 40:04
  And so is one of their cermets named Nettie, Brookshire, who,
• 40:07
  sometimes would stay there overnight.
• 40:09
  Like if she was working late and about 3 a.m. everyone in town
• 40:14
  heard a loud explosion that radiated through the
• 40:17
  neighborhood, it bent trees, blew out windows people down the
• 40:22
  street, At the Fairfax Motel were thrown out of their
• 40:25
  ballads, like was there a bomb? Yes.
• 40:29
  Molly and Earnest were over on the other side of the
• 40:31
  reservation and Molly looked out the window and went there's a
• 40:35
  fire. She thought it was Thunder at
• 40:38
  first but it was Bill Smith house and the entire house was
• 40:43
  gone. This was such a massive
• 40:45
  explosion that like it was just destroyed the town rushed out
• 40:52
  and they're like, we got to look for any survivors, anybody
• 40:54
  survive and they began moving rubble and after forever, they
• 40:58
  started hearing Bill screaming. Mmm, Rita was beside him in bed.
• 41:02
  They said it looked like she was peacefully sleeping, but when
• 41:04
  they moved her, they saw that she had been Hit by something in
• 41:07
  the back of her head, she was killed immediately.
• 41:11
  They couldn't even find Nettie. A Justice of the Peace.
• 41:15
  Simply like looked at it and determined that she had been
• 41:19
  blown to pieces that he was only 19 years old.
• 41:22
  She was married and had a small child.
• 41:25
  There weren't enough remains for them to even do an inquest.
• 41:28
  And in fact, they sell, they found part of Nettie's, remains
• 41:31
  roughly 300 feet away burned into the side of a house.
• 41:35
  Wow, And all I could think of here was like damn poor Molly.
• 41:40
  She is literally now the only person left alive in her family.
• 41:44
  Yeah. Okay.
• 41:45
  The carry Bill to an ambulance, they took him to a hospital on
• 41:49
  the way to the hospital. He passed out originally when
• 41:52
  they found him, he was awake and screaming and when he found out
• 41:54
  read, it was gone. He asked one of the people to
• 41:57
  save him for their gun so he could kill himself to.
• 42:00
  He was sad. Poor guy.
• 42:04
  They realized as they were taking him to the hospital that
• 42:07
  this had been planned. Specifically.
• 42:08
  Because roughly every like justice of the peace, all those
• 42:13
  people. Hmm.
• 42:15
  We're out of town for a court case.
• 42:16
  Oh, how convenient? They had to rush back in the
• 42:20
  middle of the night. Cops set up flood.
• 42:22
  Lights at all the access and actresses to the hospital.
• 42:26
  They posted an armed guard outside of his hospital room.
• 42:30
  Everybody was like if Bill was if this was because he said he
• 42:34
  knew something. He's got to tell us something
• 42:36
  now. Yeah.
• 42:37
  Yeah. Because he has time to take him
• 42:41
  for it, right. His friends say that like well
• 42:44
  he rambled on and on about stuff.
• 42:46
  Sometimes he like woke up and he was like did I say something?
• 42:49
  Yeah. And they were like no no he's
• 42:51
  trying to stop himself or so worried that maybe he would say
• 42:54
  something that would call it. Like it was weird and then four
• 42:59
  days later he died. He never told anybody anything,
• 43:05
  huh? At least at this point.
• 43:07
  How did he die? It was just my explosion from
• 43:09
  his injuries. Okay I was about to say, what do
• 43:12
  I miss my games I was worried. Okay, question for you real
• 43:14
  quick so I don't, I'm not sure how reservations are set up.
• 43:18
  Uh-huh. Is there some type of security
• 43:22
  they have? There is a lot of them are big.
• 43:25
  Open areas. There are generally reservation,
• 43:29
  police, and they did have like hail was one of their
• 43:32
  reservation chair, right? Right.
• 43:34
  Right. It's we're like right now we
• 43:36
  come. We run into issues in the u.s.
• 43:38
  when there's like a missing woman like the case that I
• 43:40
  talked about on Tick Tock last week.
• 43:43
  They don't know where she died or where this lady went missing.
• 43:47
  So they're not Sure who's in charge.
• 43:51
  Is it the reservation police? Is it the state?
• 43:53
  That's why a lot of times when there are reservation like
• 43:56
  people who go missing or die on reservations, it's handled by
• 43:59
  the feds because well, we least know that they're the ones in
• 44:02
  charge right. True.
• 44:03
  But as far as this was, it was just it was a massive area
• 44:06
  enemy. The thing is, they had people
• 44:07
  coming and going nonstop because they had boil Barons coming in.
• 44:11
  They were auctioning off land to make money.
• 44:13
  There were people, you know, digging, they just ran wheel.
• 44:17
  There were loads of random people coming off and It's
• 44:19
  reservation today we might not have that, right?
• 44:23
  But at this point in history with the Osage Nation, they did
• 44:26
  have too many people on there which is also contributed to the
• 44:30
  confusion with whether this was an internal conflict or sore,
• 44:36
  somebody criminals on the outside trying to kill people,
• 44:39
  right? Okay.
• 44:41
  It's just like, is okay, kids. I told you.
• 44:45
  This is a tail. It's a tale, isn't it?
• 44:48
  That is for me and I like You like it so, April 23rd.
• 44:52
  Sorry, got April 23rd. But April of 1923 the Governor
• 44:57
  of Oklahoma, Jacksy Walton sends his top investigator Herman, Fox
• 45:01
  Davis, 2006 County because people and O's the chills were
• 45:04
  saying that the reason why they hadn't found the killers because
• 45:07
  it must be somebody in the local police department, or either
• 45:11
  someone in bed with the local police department.
• 45:14
  Now Davis was also a former member of the burns detective
• 45:17
  agency and the governor Like bat listen.
• 45:20
  I hired the best man to protect me.
• 45:22
  He's got that within a few days though Davis was hanging out at
• 45:28
  the Bootleggers houses and in the gambling Den said he was no
• 45:32
  help. In fact by June, he ended up
• 45:35
  pleading guilty to bribery and got a two-year sentence.
• 45:39
  Oh my God, the governor pardoned him.
• 45:41
  Then when he got released, he killed it attorney and got life.
• 45:45
  What present do, yeah. That One didn't work out and
• 45:51
  following that Governor Walton got impeached in November of
• 45:53
  1923 seems he had pardoned a lot of people including some of the
• 45:58
  oilmen. He was a getting that money to
• 46:03
  build a nicer house from sorry. Of course, of course, one day in
• 46:07
  June of 1923 though, George big heart called up his friend, an
• 46:13
  attorney WW1, he was sick, and he was being taken to Oklahoma
• 46:18
  City Hospital, George big heart. Said that he had information
• 46:22
  about the murders, and he was only going to speak to Vaughn in
• 46:24
  person. So, before Vaughn went to go to
• 46:27
  that meeting. See his friend, he goes and he
• 46:30
  says, his wife. Listen, I've been collecting
• 46:32
  evidence about this on my own. I have hit it at this location.
• 46:39
  When van gets their big card is still alive.
• 46:42
  He shares the information with his friend.
• 46:44
  Apparently, it's very incriminating.
• 46:46
  Then Vaughn sits with his friend.
• 46:48
  As big heart dies Vaughn calls, the new Osage County, sheriff,
• 46:54
  and he's like, listen, I'm coming back tomorrow.
• 46:57
  I know everything about everything.
• 46:59
  You don't even got to worry about it.
• 47:00
  The sheriff's just like, well, do you know who killed Baker and
• 47:04
  he's like, not only do I know who killed my friend.
• 47:06
  I know more. Oh man.
• 47:08
  Let's go. Go.
• 47:09
  He was last seen boarding the overnight train and when the
• 47:12
  train pulled into the station, he wasn't on the train anymore.
• 47:15
  What know what They found his body about 36 hours later.
• 47:23
  It was about 30 miles north of Oklahoma City on off the train
• 47:27
  tracks, he had been thrown off the train, his neck was broken.
• 47:31
  He had also been stripped naked, just like McBride so everything
• 47:35
  he had written down in that meeting and then when Vaughn's
• 47:40
  Widow went to that special hiding spot it was cleaned out
• 47:44
  to what the fuck. Okay, look, I know this isn't
• 47:48
  passed but guys, you gotta be quiet.
• 47:50
  Keep walking at this point, the reign of terror had claimed 24
• 47:55
  people from just the Osage Nation, but it was also killing
• 47:59
  a bunch of people outside of an Asian to the Rancher who was
• 48:06
  trying to help the investigation, they found his
• 48:09
  body at the bottom of a flight of steps, and they were able to
• 48:11
  determine that he was drugged. Another guy was in a different
• 48:15
  city, he was an Oklahoma City and he got shot.
• 48:19
  In broad daylight on his way to go talk to State officials about
• 48:24
  the case, my God. So now it's not just people with
• 48:27
  a head, right? It's anybody who's trying to get
• 48:30
  help for the tribe. Yeah.
• 48:34
  The justice of the peace was receiving Anonymous threats.
• 48:37
  Like at this point, he was just like, I don't even want to do
• 48:40
  inquests on the new bodies that are being found, the new County.
• 48:44
  Sheriff was just like, listen, you know, we don't gotta worry
• 48:49
  about this. It's just some Indians dying.
• 48:52
  What are you talking about? He was scared.
• 48:57
  And after the bombing of the Smith house, the Osage tribe
• 49:01
  began asking the federal government to send
• 49:03
  investigators. But specifically investigators
• 49:06
  who had no ties to Oklahoma at all because there was obviously
• 49:10
  a leak here, the tribal council actually sent a formal
• 49:14
  resolution to DC and I'm going to read you part of it, which
• 49:16
  says, whereas and no case have the criminals been apprehended
• 49:19
  and brought to Justice. Whereas the Osage Tribal Council
• 49:22
  deemed essential for the preservation of the lives and
• 49:25
  property. Of the members of the tribe that
• 49:27
  prompt and strenuous action. Be taken to capture and punish
• 49:31
  the criminals. Be it further resolved.
• 49:33
  That The Honorable Secretary of the Interior be requested to
• 49:36
  obtain the services of the Department of Justice in
• 49:40
  capturing and Prosecuting the murderers of the members of the
• 49:43
  Osage tribe. Letters were also sent to the
• 49:46
  Kansas to Kansas Senator Charles Curtis who was part call and
• 49:51
  part dosage. And at the time, the highest
• 49:53
  elected official with an e and e, An ancestry like he was the
• 49:58
  highest you have been ever elected.
• 50:02
  While the tribe is waiting for a federal response, Molly is just
• 50:06
  living in fear. She's like, I'm definitely the
• 50:09
  next Target she heard people breaking into their car one
• 50:13
  night and Earnest was just like, just lay still, I don't do
• 50:16
  anything, let them take the car, who cares?
• 50:18
  It's just a car. When her brother-in-law and
• 50:23
  sister had been killed, hail was in Texas.
• 50:28
  Hail shows up at Molly's house. In is like listen I'm gonna get
• 50:32
  you your Vengeance. I promise part of Hale's pasture
• 50:35
  is set on fire acres of land damaged.
• 50:39
  Hundreds of cattle dead. Molly just decided she wasn't
• 50:42
  going to leave the house anymore.
• 50:44
  She didn't let anybody visit. She stopped going to church.
• 50:49
  Molly's Faith was gone at this point, Her Health deteriorated.
• 50:54
  She ended up actually giving her third child with Ernest to other
• 50:59
  family members to raise because she was like, well, if I'm going
• 51:03
  to die, maybe one of us can live, so sad.
• 51:09
  That was a her little two year old Anna at the time.
• 51:12
  Mmm, also she named the baby after this.
• 51:16
  Yeah, anyway, we don't hear a whole lot about Molly after
• 51:21
  this, the local Physicians, the shown Brothers began showing up
• 51:24
  and giving her injections for her health.
• 51:27
  That they told her was insulin would should have helped since
• 51:30
  her her health issue was diabetes raw.
• 51:34
  But it wasn't, it was not helping at all.
• 51:36
  And in fact, in 1925, Molly sent a secret message to a priest
• 51:41
  saying that she was in danger, and she was being poisoned.
• 51:46
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were now at the same time,
• 51:51
  Tom white is a special agent at the Bureau of Investigation as
• 51:56
  it was called. He was working in Houston and he
• 51:58
  received an urgent order from DC.
• 52:01
  His new boss, J Edgar Hoover was like, I need to talk to you and
• 52:04
  I need to talk to you in person. Whitehead joined the bureau in
• 52:08
  1917 after he had been barred from joining World War one due
• 52:12
  to a recent surgery, he still wanted to serve his country but
• 52:16
  there was also another issue. Tom white was not like a regular
• 52:20
  Lawman he was a cowboy hmm. He had been raised in the
• 52:24
  wilderness but he was noticing that the need for Cowboys was
• 52:29
  slowly shrinking in the u.s. we were moving away from the wild
• 52:32
  west era and so he was like maybe if I if I Don't get what
• 52:37
  the new times. I'm going to be left behind you.
• 52:40
  Yeah, unfortunately, now President Theodore Roosevelt had
• 52:44
  created The Bureau as a way to fill the void in law enforcement
• 52:47
  in 1908, it was so new that they only had a couple hundred agents
• 52:50
  in a few field offices Across America.
• 52:53
  They hadn't really figured out exactly what they were doing
• 52:55
  yet. Sometimes they worked on bank
• 52:56
  fraud or antitrust cases, other times.
• 52:59
  It was shipments of stolen, cars films, smut all sorts of random
• 53:03
  stuff being stolen Across America.
• 53:05
  Other times, they hunted. Escaped prisoner and sometimes
• 53:08
  they were called in to deal with crimes on Indian reservations.
• 53:11
  Kind of like now because they're the only ones with jurisdiction
• 53:15
  because their federal agent They didn't really have any power to
• 53:21
  arrest, anybody back then, but they were very good at figuring
• 53:25
  things out. This was like, this was so new
• 53:28
  that ages didn't even carry weapons.
• 53:30
  As a part of being an agent Back, Then They Carried weapons
• 53:34
  because they knew that they were about to be about that business,
• 53:36
  right? But it wasn't like you have a
• 53:37
  special issued weapon, right? Okay.
• 53:40
  So Tom white arrives at the bureau.
• 53:42
  He here, learns about the case in Osage County, and it had been
• 53:47
  two years since since the nation had sent, That letter and they
• 53:55
  had sent other agents to check it out.
• 54:00
  And all the other agents that said the same thing.
• 54:04
  There's nothing we can do here. The tribe.
• 54:08
  It actually sold part of their land to help fund the
• 54:12
  investigation, which is unheard of and messed up.
• 54:17
  They ended up selling about 20 thousand dollars worth of lamb
• 54:20
  which is about three hundred thousand dollars.
• 54:22
  Now to be told that there was nothing that could be done.
• 54:26
  Wow. They were just going to drop it
• 54:30
  back into the locals hands and Hoover was like we need to do
• 54:35
  this and we need to do it differently.
• 54:37
  So he convinced the Governor of Oklahoma to release this guy who
• 54:41
  was known as Blackie Thompson and that's a super racist name
• 54:44
  because Blackie was literally just like a native man who was
• 54:47
  like a quarter Indian. He couldn't have been that dark
• 54:50
  for y'all to name him Blackie. I'm just saying I looked at
• 54:54
  pictures of him and he was probably a hair darker than I
• 54:57
  am. Oh wow.
• 54:58
  Well You know, they used to call I know, but you just go mad
• 55:02
  about it. So when I talk about him, I just
• 55:04
  end up writing about him as Thompson, do nothing.
• 55:12
  Thank you. Like what?
• 55:15
  I was when I heard his name, I was like oh, he was probably a
• 55:17
  dark-skinned man. Know they was just racist.
• 55:20
  Yeah. Okay.
• 55:25
  Thompson was going to gather evidence working for the bureau.
• 55:30
  Because they were like listen, No One's Gonna question this
• 55:32
  convicted bank robber for navigating Osage County.
• 55:35
  This is where a lot of bank, robbers hide out in the Hills.
• 55:38
  Unfortunately, the agents had been said to keep an eye on him,
• 55:40
  lost track of him and it was a chills and he robbed another
• 55:43
  bank and killed a police officer, and it took them a long
• 55:45
  time to find them again. So that's kind of why there was
• 55:49
  that two-year Gap because literally everybody was Trying
• 55:54
  to deal with the Scandal that they had messed up.
• 55:58
  In fact, like I said, Hoover had just gotten his job.
• 56:00
  So he was like, crap, we can't do this before.
• 56:03
  There was also a whole nother, like Federal Scandal that
• 56:05
  happened during that time period.
• 56:08
  So they were really worried about losing Federal funding and
• 56:11
  proving that the Bureau of Investigation was vital to the
• 56:15
  Department of Justice. So Hoover brings in Tom.
• 56:21
  Wait, a cowboy see, there were still.
• 56:24
  There were a couple of cowboys who worked for the feds at this
• 56:27
  point but all the new guys who were coming in were what Tom
• 56:30
  Wright referred to as the college boys.
• 56:33
  Oh these are people who are going to college and then
• 56:35
  joining the bureau which is how it works.
• 56:38
  Now, usually But Tom Wayne understood the assignment.
• 56:44
  He's like you're not bringing in the military, former military,
• 56:48
  any former cops, you're calling in somebody who's a friend.
• 56:51
  Here is a man who has experience dealing with the wild west and
• 56:56
  osich Hills is the wild west. So they sat white to the
• 57:00
  Oklahoma field office and the field office, there was in
• 57:03
  desperate. Need of somebody who knew what
• 57:04
  they were doing, because they were inundated with crime.
• 57:08
  Just constant crime. The bootleggers.
• 57:11
  Is the gambling dens. Like, they were just like,
• 57:13
  there's so much crime, we can't keep up with it.
• 57:15
  Help us please. This was both an opportunity and
• 57:19
  if he messed up, this was going to be a death sentence to his
• 57:22
  career, other agents who have been sent to Osa chills and who
• 57:26
  had not done anything. Had either been sent to distant
• 57:29
  far away, field offices, or outright fired.
• 57:34
  White was also aware that every single person who had gotten
• 57:36
  close to the truth here had been murdered, so he knew that he was
• 57:41
  going to have to operate differently, right?
• 57:43
  He spent the first part of the summer of 1925 cinch simply
• 57:47
  catching up on four years of murders and Mayhem in Osage
• 57:50
  County. He felt that there were had to
• 57:53
  have been clues in the original files that would like lead him
• 57:56
  to some answers. And he was surprised to learn
• 57:59
  that despite Molly Burkhart being the only surviving member
• 58:02
  of her family. Nobody had decided to interview
• 58:05
  her. So weird.
• 58:08
  Yeah, people dropping the ball laughter, right?
• 58:11
  He noted that Osage murders were definitely not that of a serial
• 58:15
  killer. We didn't call it a serial
• 58:17
  killer at the time, but he was just like it's not following any
• 58:19
  pattern. We had people shot stabbed
• 58:21
  poisoned, drugged bombs. It was random forms of murder
• 58:26
  but he noted in his writings that these were very planned out
• 58:32
  execution. Yes, they every single detail.
• 58:34
  Nothing left to chance. White knew he couldn't trust
• 58:39
  anything from the local Lawman or the private detectives.
• 58:43
  Honestly, the giant file of stuff at the detectives wrote
• 58:47
  was just a lot of personal opinion just a bullshit
• 58:50
  basically like they were following stuff but like it was
• 58:53
  just they wrote down everything. There was no discernment.
• 58:56
  Oh okay, I got you like she talked about this in the sky was
• 59:00
  blue. That day.
• 59:01
  Yeah details I was just like this is so much.
• 59:05
  No wonder people were overwhelmed by it before.
• 59:09
  It wasn't an issue like we're sometimes.
• 59:11
  There were no leads, there were too many leads and they hadn't
• 59:14
  followed them down and figure them out.
• 59:16
  Right? So he assumed he was like I need
• 59:19
  a team and he knew they were going to have a rough time
• 59:23
  because Witnesses at this point were terrified that they were
• 59:26
  going to be murdered. Why decided that he was going to
• 59:30
  be the face of the investigation along with two other regular
• 59:33
  members of The Bureau and everybody else who was involved
• 59:38
  will go undercover. He decided the only other people
• 59:43
  he was going to bring onto the team, we're Cowboys.
• 59:46
  So he brought in a 56 year. Old Sheriff from New Mexico with
• 59:49
  a talent for Assuming New identities.
• 59:51
  Also, a former Texas Ranger who was very well, versed in danger,
• 59:57
  He brought in a deep-cover agent who looked like an insurance
• 59:59
  salesman because he had been an insurance salesman, huh?
• 1:00:04
  He kept one of the previous agents who had gone into Osage
• 1:00:08
  County before John Berger, John knew the case and had a list of
• 1:00:13
  criminal informants in Oklahoma. And he also brought in Frank
• 1:00:17
  Smith, Smith was also older and he was also a cowboy.
• 1:00:21
  The three of them were going to be like the front people who
• 1:00:24
  were doing the visible. Esta, gatien that everybody in
• 1:00:28
  town can see, right? Then they also their last member
• 1:00:31
  was a man by the name of John Ren.
• 1:00:36
  John ran is a former spy for revolutionary leaders in Mexico
• 1:00:42
  and he was also India. Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:45
  Cool. Smart Ute, which is a tribe that
• 1:00:47
  lived in what is now Colorado and Utah.
• 1:00:50
  Ryan was it, incredible investigator but he had been
• 1:00:54
  fired because he hated to do paperwork.
• 1:00:57
  I feel that Hoover had actually only reinstated him, roughly a
• 1:01:01
  few months beforehand and was just like, you got to do what
• 1:01:04
  you're supposed to do. Man, I dunno supposed to, but
• 1:01:08
  paperwork is just like, it's above my pay grade, you know I'm
• 1:01:11
  saying, give me a raise, maybe white needed ran because in
• 1:01:16
  reading the old investigation papers, There was a lot of
• 1:01:20
  casual racism in the report and then also a little bit of
• 1:01:24
  jealousy just because little that casual Reese's one of the
• 1:01:27
  bits. I read said that the OCH people
• 1:01:30
  were lazy pathetic, and the only way to get make them talk was to
• 1:01:34
  cut off their allowance. Wow, that's the person.
• 1:01:37
  Who's your tribe is. Paying you to be here and fix
• 1:01:40
  this? Yeah.
• 1:01:41
  Wow, fuck you. And here's the thing because the
• 1:01:45
  Osage tribe members could tell that these investigators didn't
• 1:01:47
  like them. Why would you feel Pell to go
• 1:01:50
  out on a limb to talk to these people.
• 1:01:52
  When anybody who talks the law enforcement is literally getting
• 1:01:55
  murdered like the next Market day.
• 1:01:58
  But you imagine you have paid three hundred thousand dollars
• 1:02:01
  for these people do an investigation about and they're
• 1:02:03
  calling you lazy and entitled. I like okay you can go right?
• 1:02:11
  Give me my money back. White tells Hoover these are who
• 1:02:13
  I want and everybody said was that a coded message that said
• 1:02:18
  proceed under cover immediately reporting to agent in charge.
• 1:02:21
  Tom white the group, all slipped into town separately and under
• 1:02:26
  the radar with assumed identities.
• 1:02:28
  Two of them showed up at will actually want.
• 1:02:30
  He was one of like a quiet elderly Cattleman from Texas who
• 1:02:35
  was going to become friends with William hail The man who looks
• 1:02:39
  like an insurance agent. Open up an insurance business
• 1:02:41
  in. Downtown Fairfax.
• 1:02:43
  And he'd go door-to-door specifically, two suspects house
• 1:02:46
  has to go. Meet them agent Reynolds arrived
• 1:02:49
  as a medicine, man searching for his long-lost Osage relative.
• 1:02:53
  Yeah, Ryan attended tribal, Gatherings made friends with
• 1:02:57
  locals who told him things that they definitely were never going
• 1:03:00
  to tell white man. When white arrived with the
• 1:03:04
  other two, this was also the beginning of the FBI wearing the
• 1:03:10
  black soot Black, Tie, shiny shoes.
• 1:03:13
  So that's how so white Smith and burger show up to town.
• 1:03:19
  So they they come with this appearance.
• 1:03:22
  So everybody knows where you guys investigating.
• 1:03:26
  Yeah, the four other guys show up working in the oil fields and
• 1:03:29
  I just looked in the regular Ranch in and I just like Other
• 1:03:33
  guys, they re set up their shops there before these guys even
• 1:03:36
  came there and they got they got their information already.
• 1:03:41
  Okay, cool. I mean this was done very well.
• 1:03:44
  Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. Okay.
• 1:03:45
  I like it. So, the first thing that White
• 1:03:50
  and the other two agents, we're like go there.
• 1:03:53
  Like where do we start? Well, first thing is they go
• 1:03:56
  check the justice of the peace. Anna's inquest records are gone,
• 1:03:59
  stolen. None of Anna's evidence had been
• 1:04:02
  saved. Saved.
• 1:04:03
  Literally, the only thing that was left was that the Undertaker
• 1:04:07
  had kept her skull because they had exhumed her body at one
• 1:04:10
  point. And the showing Brothers, the
• 1:04:15
  two medical doctors in town had like, literally chopped up her
• 1:04:20
  brain to try and find a tiny bullet in it.
• 1:04:25
  So the Undertaker was like, I'm just gonna keep this skull here.
• 1:04:28
  Yeah, they entered the rest of her.
• 1:04:30
  This was useful though because he was able to See what had
• 1:04:33
  happened. And he came to the same.
• 1:04:37
  Conclusion as the initial inquest her, there was no exit
• 1:04:40
  wound. That bullet should have been in
• 1:04:42
  there, so we do something. Find the hammer, found the
• 1:04:45
  bullet from Anna. So they stopped at the bring for
• 1:04:47
  no reason less. What they went back and looked
• 1:04:49
  at it again, but he was just like, no this what you like, he
• 1:04:55
  spoke to the Justice. He was like what you said
• 1:04:57
  originally was right there. Should have been a bullet in her
• 1:04:59
  brain, mmm. And that meant that one of the
• 1:05:03
  first people who were there at that inquest.
• 1:05:06
  Probably took it. In fact, they went and they
• 1:05:11
  spoke to the show and brothers and they were like, we do know.
• 1:05:15
  We don't like you. Yeah.
• 1:05:19
  It's very obvious that they're involved at this point.
• 1:05:21
  Yeah, there was so much hearsay and that original those 50
• 1:05:25
  privatized. That wiped is just like, you
• 1:05:27
  know what? I'm gonna interview everybody on
• 1:05:29
  my own your guys are going to help me.
• 1:05:32
  We're going to check out all their Alibis one by one agent
• 1:05:34
  Burger helped him with this together.
• 1:05:36
  They ruled out. Most all of the people that the
• 1:05:40
  Eyes left as Witnesses, including Anna's ex-husband,
• 1:05:43
  when they looked into the situation was that, oh, Des
• 1:05:49
  Browne was with a woman in another city.
• 1:05:51
  And that was accurate. They were divorced.
• 1:05:55
  He was allowed to be out there. Slut right.
• 1:05:56
  Right. Right, right.
• 1:05:57
  Yeah. Do you think he was out there?
• 1:06:01
  You know, meet ladies, if living is best?
• 1:06:04
  Like, they looked into the rumor that and I had been killed by
• 1:06:06
  the girlfriend of someone. She was having an affair with
• 1:06:10
  what they realized through doing that investigation was that the
• 1:06:13
  private eyes had written down everything that everybody told
• 1:06:16
  them and white determined. Oh some of this is just straight
• 1:06:21
  lies. This is manufactured to
• 1:06:23
  specifically throw people off. Hmm.
• 1:06:27
  J. Edgar Hoover also helped a
• 1:06:29
  little bit from DC. He actually demanded daily
• 1:06:31
  reports. So they descent daily coated
• 1:06:34
  telegrams to him to DC, but he was just like, there's a white
• 1:06:39
  woman you have listed here. Her name is Nisha, Kenny and
• 1:06:42
  she's married to an Osage, man. And I think she's part of this
• 1:06:45
  conspiracy Kenny had a history of mental illness issues and she
• 1:06:49
  believes she was possessed and had tried to kill a local
• 1:06:52
  attorney, but Hoover had interviewed her twice and even
• 1:06:55
  had a government expert on Mental Health.
• 1:06:57
  Evaluate her. They realize they were like,
• 1:07:00
  she's a bit paranoid, but she's very perceptive.
• 1:07:03
  So while she'll make a terrible witness, she will be able to
• 1:07:06
  help us with the leads, hmm? Okay, Hoover also pointed out
• 1:07:10
  that aw Comstock that Guardian. Was not the worst person, he had
• 1:07:20
  an issue like they had real beef because Comstock had criticized
• 1:07:25
  him to the bureau and threatened to turn Senator Curtis against
• 1:07:29
  Hoover. So initially Hoover was not on
• 1:07:35
  board with Comstock being a part of this, right, right.
• 1:07:38
  White was just like he was showing up giving us a little
• 1:07:41
  bit of information then hiding again because Comstock realized
• 1:07:45
  that this was real. Real deal.
• 1:07:48
  People are still Dying by the end of July.
• 1:07:50
  White begins looking into brianburkhardt Molly's
• 1:07:53
  brother-in-law. The last person who'd seen
• 1:07:55
  alive. Anybody need a refresher.
• 1:07:59
  He swore that he took Ana home between 4:30 and 5:00 p.m. and
• 1:08:04
  then gone into Fairfax to see a show with William Hale and his
• 1:08:07
  brother Ernest and two, other family members, and aunt, and
• 1:08:10
  uncle. This seemed like a solid Alibi.
• 1:08:13
  So agent Burger traveled to Brian's family's house in
• 1:08:17
  Northern Texas, which is Campbell, Texas, and lo and
• 1:08:21
  behold, William Hale had also grown up near Campbell Texas to
• 1:08:25
  oh wow, honey. When they got when Burger got to
• 1:08:30
  Campbells family's house, sorry to the house.
• 1:08:34
  And in Campbell Ryan's Uncle wasn't there but his aunt was
• 1:08:38
  there and she launched into an entire tirade about how Earnest
• 1:08:43
  had married. One of those red Millionaires
• 1:08:45
  and she didn't like it, she was in the middle of this crazy
• 1:08:49
  conversation with agent burger and Brian's.
• 1:08:54
  Uncle comes in. And is like Brian was with us.
• 1:08:58
  Y'all need to leave. Uh-huh.
• 1:09:03
  Excuse me sir. But how the hell you know, how
• 1:09:06
  do you know what I'm here for? Yep, he was just like, listen
• 1:09:08
  stop. He was like Brian was with us.
• 1:09:10
  You'll need to look into this. He has an alibi.
• 1:09:13
  Y'all need to get out of my house.
• 1:09:15
  Hmm, I don't trust, his Alibi is not very trustworthy.
• 1:09:18
  I don't think so either. So it's August of 1925, white
• 1:09:22
  undercover agents. Go into the town of Ralston.
• 1:09:26
  There was an old lead that Anna had been spotted by a group of
• 1:09:29
  white. Men who have been sitting
• 1:09:31
  outside of a hotel in Ralston on Main Street, previous detectives
• 1:09:35
  had spoken to the group of men and they were like, we have no
• 1:09:37
  idea what you're talking about. they track down an old man, who
• 1:09:41
  was originally kind of worried at them first, but once he
• 1:09:45
  realized that they were legit, he was like, oh yeah bat he was
• 1:09:48
  like I was there and I definitely did talk to Anna.
• 1:09:53
  In fact, I know I talked to her because I was like, hey, Annie
• 1:09:59
  And he said that she wasn't slumped over drunk and she was
• 1:10:03
  in the car with brianburkhardt and Bryant was driving.
• 1:10:06
  He was definitely not in Fairfax because he was in Ralston at
• 1:10:09
  like midnight. Hmm interesting.
• 1:10:13
  There were other Witnesses who confirmed that Brian was driving
• 1:10:16
  the car too and this was the first kind of crack and
• 1:10:20
  brianburkhardt sli's there was no way he was both in Fairfax
• 1:10:24
  and Ralston at the same time. No you're not a time traveler
• 1:10:27
  sir. So It follows this lead and he
• 1:10:30
  follows agent Burgers. Network of informants and be
• 1:10:33
  they kind of create a timeline. So Brian and Anna had stopped at
• 1:10:37
  a speakeasy in Ralston and stayed there until 10 p.m. then
• 1:10:40
  they headed to another underground bar.
• 1:10:42
  A couple miles north of Fairfax Brian's Uncle from Campbell was
• 1:10:46
  spotted with them that night but he left before they left that
• 1:10:51
  bar at 1 a.m. then they kind of disappear for about two hours
• 1:10:57
  and other People who he interviewed him.
• 1:11:00
  Ralston said that they saw Brian Anna and a third man.
• 1:11:04
  They didn't know at about 3 a.m. In fact, someone who knew Brian
• 1:11:11
  said that she heard him get out of a car.
• 1:11:16
  They were a like in Fairfax and he was yelling at Anna to get
• 1:11:20
  back in the car. That's the last time.
• 1:11:23
  They anybody in Ralston or Fairfax are hurt Anna, huh?
• 1:11:29
  And actually he found out from these witnesses that after they
• 1:11:32
  initially had, told that stuff to the private eyes.
• 1:11:36
  Someone had come around and paid everybody off.
• 1:11:40
  Interesting. So at the end of the summer now,
• 1:11:44
  White's like there's definitely a mole in this investigation.
• 1:11:48
  One of his agents have been questioning a local like crappy
• 1:11:52
  attorney and the attorney knew a lot about the case, the attorney
• 1:11:55
  was like, oh, I've seen part of the Bureau reports and I can see
• 1:11:59
  more of them if I want to. This wasn't really anything new
• 1:12:02
  in the bureau's past breach has happened a lot, but the problem
• 1:12:06
  is this kind of a breach had was going to get a lot of people
• 1:12:09
  killed. Yeah.
• 1:12:09
  Like Literally as soon as someone says they have
• 1:12:12
  information, about this case, they go dying in the next day.
• 1:12:17
  On top of that, two of the previous Burns detectives, try
• 1:12:21
  to expose one of burgers, informants, Kelsey Morrison and
• 1:12:28
  they lied and told local PD that Kelsey Morrison had committed a
• 1:12:35
  robbery and he hadn't. So, Kelsey gets pulled into
• 1:12:39
  local PD. Ancient Burger reports that the
• 1:12:43
  local law men are trying to mess up their investigation.
• 1:12:46
  After Morrison is released, he super freaked out and is like
• 1:12:50
  can you get these guys before they kill me?
• 1:12:52
  No agent Burgers. Like, you need to lay low, watch
• 1:12:56
  out for traps. Like if this was so like, when I
• 1:13:00
  say that the, the identities of those four men who were
• 1:13:04
  undercover were so important, white never met with them
• 1:13:08
  anywhere near Fairfax, and it was never during the day, they
• 1:13:12
  met in the middle of the countryside at night to exchange
• 1:13:17
  information. They all were told to always
• 1:13:19
  carry their weapons. Make sure you aren't being
• 1:13:21
  followed. In case your cover gets blown,
• 1:13:24
  you need to be able to defend yourself, right?
• 1:13:26
  Right. So that white looks into the
• 1:13:29
  private eye who hail hired in 1921 our boy.
• 1:13:32
  Pike, the one who you know said that he just quit and left town.
• 1:13:36
  Yeah, right. Well, Why it's walking around
• 1:13:40
  town one. They're all like kind of just
• 1:13:42
  doing the regular thing. Agent Burger is just a random
• 1:13:47
  guy walks up to him and it's just like Pike and I work
• 1:13:50
  together. Pike has something he wants to
• 1:13:52
  tell you, but he's not going to tell you about it.
• 1:13:56
  Unless you pay him very well. Pike.
• 1:13:59
  He says Pike knows the identity of the third man who was with
• 1:14:05
  Anna at 3:00 before she died. Of course, Asian Burgers.
• 1:14:12
  Like I do want to let you know, you are attempting to extort the
• 1:14:16
  federal government right now. Yeah.
• 1:14:19
  You should just have him come to us and talk to us.
• 1:14:21
  We could protect him and the guys like yeah, no.
• 1:14:27
  So they launched their own investigation to find Pike and
• 1:14:30
  they do of course he did because he gets arrested commit and
• 1:14:33
  highway robbery and Tulsa Oklahoma, dude.
• 1:14:36
  Come on. So when to attempt to get like a
• 1:14:40
  lesser, Sentence. Hike tells them that there was a
• 1:14:46
  local Gambler who had been with the three of them, but the
• 1:14:50
  Gambler had gone home before the third man arrived.
• 1:14:54
  So this was a useless lead from Pike.
• 1:14:57
  Go to jail, don't collect $200. Yeah, but he was so pretty much
• 1:15:02
  Pike. Gave them another person they
• 1:15:04
  hung out with but not the one they wanted.
• 1:15:06
  Then why did he say that? He had information?
• 1:15:08
  You just want the money, these won the money.
• 1:15:10
  He was just trying to Extort them dumbass.
• 1:15:13
  Okay now they did learn something from Pike though.
• 1:15:16
  The three of them. Put a lot of pressure on Pike
• 1:15:18
  and he went I wasn't hired to find, Anna's killer.
• 1:15:23
  I was hired to conceal. Where Brian was that night?
• 1:15:27
  I was hired to falsify evidence. I was hired to create for fake
• 1:15:31
  Witnesses and to manufacture an alibi for brianburkhardt.
• 1:15:36
  Ha ha ha ha. And he said This all came from
• 1:15:41
  William hail. Fuck you.
• 1:15:44
  Okay. Now he'll head and said,
• 1:15:47
  directly that Brian was the killer just that he needed.
• 1:15:50
  Brian to be clean. Mmm.
• 1:15:52
  That's his nephew. He's looking out for his family.
• 1:15:56
  It was a big deal though because literally everybody in this
• 1:15:58
  town, trusted. William hail.
• 1:16:01
  And now, Tom white has evidence that William Hale is big bad
• 1:16:06
  guy. So yeah he'll had well Not only
• 1:16:10
  that he'd been lying to Molly for four years.
• 1:16:15
  So, they asked him. Is Hale involved?
• 1:16:20
  Or is he just covering for his family?
• 1:16:24
  Pike isn't sure, but he's just like Sometimes when I would meet
• 1:16:28
  with hail Brian was there and so was Ernest, Molly's husband?
• 1:16:38
  Ernest Burkhart was in on this from the jump.
• 1:16:41
  So he must have been a third person that was there.
• 1:16:43
  Then we'll see at this point. It's very obvious to the
• 1:16:47
  investigators that the Burkhart family is part of this
• 1:16:49
  conspiracy and he's like. Did Bill Smith figured this out?
• 1:16:53
  Is that why he got blown up? Because that was his
• 1:16:56
  brother-in-law, you know, they were related through marriage,
• 1:16:59
  right? Smith hadn't, covered that lizzi
• 1:17:01
  had been poisoned and he was following the trail related to
• 1:17:04
  the Head Right money. Remember, I told you that bill
• 1:17:09
  would wake up and start panicking that like he said
• 1:17:11
  something. Yeah.
• 1:17:13
  Shortly before build died, James and David shown.
• 1:17:18
  Thus doctors called bills attorney and had him come to the
• 1:17:25
  hospital. Why way specifically met with
• 1:17:31
  Bill and made? Sure.
• 1:17:32
  There were no nurses around. Tom white is very suspicious of
• 1:17:37
  the shown Brothers. At this point, you should be, he
• 1:17:40
  was already suspicious because of that missing bullet.
• 1:17:44
  And he questioned, everybody who'd been in the room.
• 1:17:47
  The doctor said they called those lawyer hoping that he
• 1:17:49
  would tell them who was attacked.
• 1:17:51
  But Tom was like why don't you call Justice of the Peace or
• 1:17:53
  somebody who could have arrested somebody?
• 1:17:55
  Yeah, they like it didn't matter.
• 1:17:56
  Bill didn't say anything. He didn't name his Killers but
• 1:18:03
  what he did tell us attorney was that he only had two enemies in
• 1:18:06
  this world. William K hail the king of Osa
• 1:18:10
  chills and his nephew Ernest. Becker.
• 1:18:15
  Okay. Now, Tom, wait, Tom and his
• 1:18:19
  agents determined that the shown Brothers had orchestrated that
• 1:18:21
  kneeling for their own purposes. The lawyer had been called in to
• 1:18:26
  bring paperwork and that paperwork.
• 1:18:29
  They got built a sign when he was just Lucid enough.
• 1:18:33
  Allowing his brother to be appointed to his wife's estate.
• 1:18:38
  So Rita Rita's had right money. They had Bill sign it away. but
• 1:18:46
  the problem was Well, okay, so this is obviously the first
• 1:18:50
  direct connection to these murders being super tied to the
• 1:18:54
  Head, Right? Mm-hmm.
• 1:18:55
  White, look more into it and it was just corruption on top of
• 1:18:57
  corruption. Some of the Guardians had been
• 1:19:00
  appointed to the Osage tribe were decent, but most of them
• 1:19:02
  were just straight up robbing people of their money.
• 1:19:05
  Like, he would find out that like a person be like, hey, I
• 1:19:08
  want to use my money to buy a car and the guardian be like,
• 1:19:10
  bet I'll go get you a car and he buy the car for about $250 and
• 1:19:14
  then sell it to his client for 1012 $250.
• 1:19:18
  Wow. Eating the thousand dollars
• 1:19:19
  himself Guardians were getting kickbacks from the banks that
• 1:19:23
  held the money stores that they, that the people shopped at,
• 1:19:27
  sometimes they would just outright buy land in the name of
• 1:19:32
  their clients but it was for them.
• 1:19:35
  Hmm. Even worse the US government was
• 1:19:39
  looking at these purchases and going, the Osage people are
• 1:19:42
  really spending frivolously and the O's is people are begging
• 1:19:47
  for like to use their money. To like bite to build schools,
• 1:19:50
  right? They want to do good for a
• 1:19:52
  community, a government study actually was launched after this
• 1:19:56
  whole thing happen and it showed that those Guardians stole eight
• 1:20:00
  million dollars from the Osage people, just in the early 1920s.
• 1:20:05
  What the fuck? And all those Guardians were the
• 1:20:10
  most prominent men in town, local judges lawyers
• 1:20:13
  prosecutors. There was one judge who
• 1:20:15
  legitimately was telling people, if you vote for me, I'll make
• 1:20:19
  sure you get on this Guardian action, that's sickening.
• 1:20:26
  Some of the Guardians would clean out the account and then
• 1:20:28
  tell their client, you don't have any more money.
• 1:20:32
  And just leave the person to just live in poverty.
• 1:20:35
  There was one instance where a guardian let a child die instead
• 1:20:39
  of giving them money from the account, what the fuck.
• 1:20:43
  And the thing is, it wasn't that the Osage people weren't aware
• 1:20:45
  of what was happening. It was just that they were like,
• 1:20:47
  this is just another way that the u.s. government is screwing
• 1:20:50
  us over. It like that again they couldn't
• 1:20:52
  do anything about this either because they were appointed,
• 1:20:55
  Guardian government Guardians. Yeah.
• 1:20:58
  Goes was like this. This is Christ startling for
• 1:21:01
  white because He had read a lot of the same newspaper stories
• 1:21:05
  and other Americans read was that the Osage people all had 11
• 1:21:08
  cars and they all lived in fancy money and they were all stupid.
• 1:21:11
  Wealthy. Yeah.
• 1:21:12
  Beloved car is not all my name. Well, they all right.
• 1:21:15
  Yeah, they're all my name but guess what?
• 1:21:17
  I don't drive any and his cousin and uncle.
• 1:21:19
  Yeah. Everybody else has a car.
• 1:21:21
  I don't have a car. Exactly.
• 1:21:23
  God. So what we learned was that
• 1:21:29
  people felt helpless and that they had nobody on their side
• 1:21:31
  which was why they fell. Ain't no real desire to talk to
• 1:21:36
  anybody who came to help him about this.
• 1:21:39
  So, in September of 1925, the undercover insurance agent stops
• 1:21:43
  at a gas station in Fairfax and starts talking to a woman who
• 1:21:46
  worked there. He's like, hey, I've been here
• 1:21:48
  for a couple months and I think I want to buy a house and the
• 1:21:52
  lady is just like, oh yeah. Well you got to talk to Bill
• 1:21:54
  hail. He owns everything here.
• 1:21:56
  She said that she had brought her home from Hale and she lived
• 1:21:59
  pretty close to him. And that one night, thousands of
• 1:22:02
  Acres of Bill's land had been set on fire and it was meant to
• 1:22:06
  seem like it was for other reasons but she knew the real
• 1:22:09
  reason and the real reason was that bill hail wanted insurance
• 1:22:13
  money. And in fact he had collected 30
• 1:22:15
  thousand dollars from that stretch of land being burned.
• 1:22:22
  White's going to look in the helm or remember Henry Rowan.
• 1:22:27
  Yeah. Who'd been shot in the head
• 1:22:30
  twice and found in his car. He's Frozen.
• 1:22:32
  Yep. Well Bill.
• 1:22:34
  Hail made this big to-do about how he and Henry Rowan were best
• 1:22:38
  friends and that Rowan had been kind of cheated by his guardian
• 1:22:43
  and didn't have any money. And so, Bill Hale had given him
• 1:22:49
  over twelve thousand dollars because they were such good
• 1:22:52
  friends. I don't give that kind of money
• 1:22:55
  to my friends. Anyway, well just before Rowan
• 1:23:00
  died. There was an insurance policy
• 1:23:03
  that was taken out on his life 25,000 dollars.
• 1:23:08
  And Bill was the beneficiary, of course you was, and, of course,
• 1:23:12
  right after that, Ron ended up with a bullet in his head.
• 1:23:15
  But no one had even interviewed bill as a suspect.
• 1:23:18
  And so, white track down the insurance agent, who told a very
• 1:23:22
  different story than Hale had tone of hounds book.
• 1:23:24
  Remember because bills, like, we're such good friends.
• 1:23:27
  He listed me because I was the last person, you know, they were
• 1:23:30
  like, well, why not? His wife was like, oh, that's
• 1:23:32
  because his wife was cheating on him with somebody else of
• 1:23:35
  course, which was true, but he was like he just didn't want her
• 1:23:40
  to have any of the money but beside the point what the
• 1:23:43
  insurance agent said was that Hale had pushed for the policy
• 1:23:48
  and the insurance agent was like well most people only need about
• 1:23:51
  10,000 dollars Max especially indigenous people because once
• 1:23:56
  the town got wind of all that money, it became very expensive
• 1:24:04
  to bury indigenous people and the area of course and they I
• 1:24:07
  jacked up the price of funerals for the Osage tribes members to
• 1:24:12
  the tune of roughly 8,000 dollars.
• 1:24:14
  That's a lot of money. Now, that's way too much money
• 1:24:19
  back then for a funeral. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:23
  So, the typical amount that they would give for something like
• 1:24:26
  that was about 10 grand for an indigenous person to pay for
• 1:24:29
  their funeral, things of that nature, you know, help the
• 1:24:32
  family out a little bit. I mean, they would have been
• 1:24:34
  fine because eventually the head right money would come in the
• 1:24:36
  next couple of months, and the family would be able to do what
• 1:24:38
  they need to do. Right, right.
• 1:24:40
  Hale says, he'll pushes the policy from 10,000 to 25,000
• 1:24:45
  saying that Rowan owned him money white, didn't think that,
• 1:24:48
  that was real. Because if it was real all Hill
• 1:24:52
  would have had, Do was present proof of that debt to the Rowan
• 1:24:57
  estate, and it would have been paid back because that money is
• 1:25:00
  still dropping into an account. It's possible that Rowan never
• 1:25:08
  even knew that this policy was taken out on his life.
• 1:25:11
  I'm Imagine and after Rowan's funeral, they tried to pin the
• 1:25:17
  murder on the man who had been sleeping with his wife.
• 1:25:21
  And in fact, hail like was like you need to lead run and
• 1:25:26
  actually the guy was like, know if I run people are going to
• 1:25:29
  think. I did it.
• 1:25:30
  He was right. Yeah.
• 1:25:32
  I mean yeah. You were going to you did it
• 1:25:34
  real. He'll also visited Rowan's Widow
• 1:25:37
  and left a bottle of whiskey for her and she need to supposed to
• 1:25:42
  have it because she was Like think that's poison.
• 1:25:45
  Yes, it was. I guarantee you, it was fucking
• 1:25:49
  poison white discovered that Hale had even tried to buy
• 1:25:53
  Rowan's head right previously, but that literally went against
• 1:25:58
  the government's ruling, there was no way you could sell your
• 1:26:02
  own head, right? But the only way it could Pat be
• 1:26:03
  passed down. Was through inheritance or like
• 1:26:05
  dual will white followed the head rates and realized that
• 1:26:09
  these were all being slowly trickling back to Molly
• 1:26:12
  Burkhardt and if she It would go to her children and her husband,
• 1:26:16
  Ernest Burkhart, ours. Just get the fuck out of here.
• 1:26:20
  You get hers out of this man has money went to Lizzie.
• 1:26:24
  Lizzie's money was dispersed back to her kids when she died
• 1:26:27
  Rita's. Money was actually supposed to
• 1:26:29
  go to Mali to the killer hadn't intended for Bill, to outlive
• 1:26:34
  Rita, which is why they had to go and have him have Bill filed
• 1:26:38
  that document before he died. Right.
• 1:26:40
  Right. But the bulk of all of these had
• 1:26:43
  rights Now, belong to Molly. Burkhardt she's received be
• 1:26:46
  receiving roughly four or five times her normal allotment girl.
• 1:26:53
  Watch out, they looked into, it's got Mathis.
• 1:26:56
  Who was the guardian of both Anna Brown and Lizzie in the
• 1:26:59
  back pocket of hail every bit of corruption that agent, white
• 1:27:04
  found in Fairfax had a connection to William hail, and
• 1:27:07
  that made it very hard to get any justice.
• 1:27:10
  So, in the fall of 25 white told who Hoover.
• 1:27:14
  I have to get evidence to put hail away and his accomplices,
• 1:27:18
  there was pressure from White's bosses but also presage pressure
• 1:27:23
  from the Osage people who were, like we really appreciate what
• 1:27:27
  you're doing but we're still scared.
• 1:27:28
  Hmm. White was finally kind of on the
• 1:27:32
  same line with usage people, which was that there is no way.
• 1:27:37
  Any of the corrupt, white citizens of osich hills were
• 1:27:40
  going to implicate one of their own people and murdering
• 1:27:42
  Indians. So he turned to The Outlaws
• 1:27:46
  instead, these men were any less racist but some of them wanted
• 1:27:49
  Hale gone too. He specifically talk to Dick.
• 1:27:53
  Greg, a well-known Outlaw who had information, but he didn't
• 1:27:57
  want to tell it all white met with him.
• 1:27:59
  And realized that dick Greg would easily backstabbed roughly
• 1:28:02
  anybody, he knew but not William.
• 1:28:05
  Hail Greg did however let agent white know that Hale had met
• 1:28:10
  with the outlaw out Spencer and his gang which Greg had been a
• 1:28:14
  part of in 1922 and that Hale had offered them two thousand
• 1:28:20
  dollars to kill Rita and Bill Smith.
• 1:28:22
  Al Spencer had declined saying we're criminals but we're not
• 1:28:26
  hit men and we're not just going to murder some innocent lady.
• 1:28:29
  Yep in her bag. So white ended up then going to
• 1:28:32
  Henry grammar the Bootleggers who Bill visited Just like every
• 1:28:37
  other witness against Hale, grammar have been killed shortly
• 1:28:40
  after Bill died in 1923, there was a clear sign that if you
• 1:28:44
  were a business, if you were a criminal who did business with
• 1:28:46
  William hail you were going to die after your business was
• 1:28:49
  concluded, oof they still had their other informant Kelsey
• 1:28:53
  Morrison, who told white really bad news Beal?
• 1:28:58
  Hell knows you're onto him. One of the undercover agents had
• 1:29:03
  gotten close to Hale. And when they talked about the
• 1:29:07
  case, he'll was like, it's all good.
• 1:29:10
  I'm bulletproof. Oh really now sir?
• 1:29:15
  So at that white was like, okay we're safe for now, they don't
• 1:29:17
  think we're a real threat, they just know that we know about it.
• 1:29:22
  October of 25 agent white gets a tip, a prisoner named Bert
• 1:29:26
  Lawson knew a lot about the Osage murders.
• 1:29:29
  So white and Frank Smith go to Macalester, prison to talk to
• 1:29:33
  him, Lawson had been a ranch hand for Bill Smith, and threw
• 1:29:37
  him had met the rest of the Hale family, all the brothers and all
• 1:29:40
  that. So when Bill Smith and Lawson
• 1:29:43
  had a falling out, Ernest Burkhart had gone to Lawson and
• 1:29:47
  was like, listen, I need you to kill my brother-in-law, Bill
• 1:29:50
  Smith. I'll give you five grand and
• 1:29:53
  lost them was like listen, it's not really what I do.
• 1:29:59
  But then lost and got arrested and he needed lawyers.
• 1:30:02
  So he said that he agreed to do it out of desperation and that
• 1:30:05
  Ernest, provided him with nitroglycerin and it even
• 1:30:08
  dropped him off at Bill's house to do the deed.
• 1:30:10
  And then they snuck him back into the local jail while the
• 1:30:12
  cops were at the explosion. On October 24th. 1925 white
• 1:30:18
  sends a telegram to Hoover saying, they have a confession
• 1:30:20
  of the person who set the bomb Hoover was like bet.
• 1:30:24
  Congratulations. This is when Comstock starts
• 1:30:28
  receiving threats for helping with the investigation and have
• 1:30:31
  even found Dynamite planted in like his windows at his house.
• 1:30:35
  Like it opened the windows. Yeah.
• 1:30:37
  To let the air in and he was just like there is there's a but
• 1:30:41
  I know might hear this not good because a boom stick in my
• 1:30:44
  window. So John ran, the UK Jack had
• 1:30:48
  spoken to Molly's priest and Molly's priest was like, yeah
• 1:30:52
  she hasn't been to church in like a long time but she did
• 1:30:55
  send me a message saying She was poisoned.
• 1:30:58
  And so the priest was told Ren. I told her don't drink any
• 1:31:03
  alcohol under any circumstances. Wasn't alcohol.
• 1:31:07
  That's the thing. They didn't realize that it was
• 1:31:09
  the insulin injections that were being poisoned and Molly was
• 1:31:12
  100%, right? It was just happening, very
• 1:31:15
  slowly, as to present itself as an a slow ending illness, just
• 1:31:19
  like her mother. Yeah.
• 1:31:23
  Finally, it was December 1925. Agent.
• 1:31:25
  White couldn't wait any longer. He sent out warrants to arrest,
• 1:31:28
  will help William Hale and his nephew Ernest Burkhart Earnest
• 1:31:32
  got picked up right away and they took him to a jail and got
• 1:31:35
  three which was a roughly like Southwest like 80 miles.
• 1:31:39
  He'll actually couldn't be found and they had learned that he
• 1:31:43
  liked bought a fancy new outfit and then he strolled into the
• 1:31:46
  Sheriff's Office and was like understand.
• 1:31:48
  I'm wanted oh my God. And so they took him to jail and
• 1:31:51
  Guthrie to they were held separately and they actually put
• 1:31:56
  our In this area of the prison that was hot as hell like.
• 1:32:00
  So he would be super uncomfortable.
• 1:32:04
  They in fact, all the police in Guthrie were like Earnest is
• 1:32:09
  gonna break first. He he just seems like he would
• 1:32:13
  no one breaks in the first 24 hours, Ernest, just sit there
• 1:32:16
  saying over and over your informant is lying.
• 1:32:20
  Hales like I have an alibi. I was I literally got a telegram
• 1:32:24
  in Texas and signed for it. How was I there for bills
• 1:32:27
  assassination? White goes out in a lamb and he
• 1:32:33
  decides I need to bring Blackie Thompson it.
• 1:32:36
  Forgot all about Blackie got you will remember.
• 1:32:39
  They had originally used him and then had to put him back in
• 1:32:42
  prison because he was a little too rowdy.
• 1:32:43
  Yeah, so he didn't even. So here's the thing.
• 1:32:46
  White didn't even like talk to Hoover about this because had he
• 1:32:50
  asked for permission Hoover would have said, no, because
• 1:32:52
  that had been a big scandal at had gotten him in trouble.
• 1:32:58
  But what he did do was Whitehead Thompson.
• 1:33:03
  Always under an armed guard. They he legitimately had a
• 1:33:08
  Rifleman on a nearby building. Always with his rifle on
• 1:33:15
  Thompson the entire time. He was there.
• 1:33:18
  Like they took every attempt to make sure Thompson did not
• 1:33:24
  Escape So they bring in Thompson, he's initially kind of
• 1:33:30
  hostile and rude. But when agent white goes,
• 1:33:34
  listen, I don't want to know about anything else you're
• 1:33:35
  doing. I want to know about, Bill Hale
• 1:33:38
  and your connections to him and osich else.
• 1:33:41
  And that's when they noticed that Thompson was like no longer
• 1:33:45
  as aggressive. He told white, told him.
• 1:33:51
  Listen, I can't shorten your sentence.
• 1:33:53
  You're literally in jail for life.
• 1:33:56
  But eventually Thompson began talking and he said that he had
• 1:33:59
  also been offered money to Kill Bill and Rita Smith.
• 1:34:04
  So they took that back to Burkhardt and they said listen
• 1:34:09
  we have a second witness willing to testify that you conspired to
• 1:34:13
  Kill Bill and Rita Smith and so Earnest is like nah nah you
• 1:34:18
  don't and he's like who recommend?
• 1:34:21
  So they bring in Thompson into the same room with Earnest and
• 1:34:26
  Earnest Burkhart is shook. Circus Thompson.
• 1:34:31
  Looks at Earnest and goes listener and eat.
• 1:34:33
  I told him everything. Burkhart is almost like he wants
• 1:34:39
  to talk but he's too scared multiple times, he liked starts
• 1:34:42
  the conversation and discuss I can't They take Thompson back to
• 1:34:48
  his cell white goes home. A little bit defeated.
• 1:34:52
  He's like, maybe the whole that Hale has on his nephews is just
• 1:34:56
  too much. In the middle of night though,
• 1:34:58
  he gets a phone call and he's worried, he's like, oh God it's
• 1:35:01
  a phone call like midnight. Does that mean Tom said escaped
• 1:35:05
  or somebody killed himself or something like that?
• 1:35:08
  No, it was the prison aren't. His Burkhart is ready to talk.
• 1:35:12
  Oh, okay. Brock Holt was told his rights,
• 1:35:16
  he And a paper saying he waved them and he made a statement
• 1:35:19
  implicating not just his uncle in the bomb plot but connecting
• 1:35:23
  hail to a lot of the criminals that agent Smith had learned
• 1:35:26
  about Burkhardt told them that Lawson actually had lied and the
• 1:35:31
  bomber was not Lawson. It was a demolition expert that
• 1:35:34
  they had found named ASA Kirby. ASA, Kirby had been eliminated,
• 1:35:40
  just like all the other criminals, that's why you
• 1:35:42
  haven't heard of them, right? That's why loss of the still
• 1:35:45
  alive. If he had been the one who done
• 1:35:46
  it, he dead very true. He said that bill Hills.
• 1:35:51
  Alibi was real. He had just paid Kirby to do the
• 1:35:54
  murder Burke her. Turned out on a lot of people.
• 1:36:00
  He implicated a man named John Ramsey, unknown cow Thief for
• 1:36:03
  killing Henry Rowan. Ramsey initially played dumb
• 1:36:07
  until they brought Burkhart signed confession to him and he
• 1:36:09
  went I guess it's on my neck now.
• 1:36:12
  Get your pencils. The only person that Ernest
• 1:36:16
  dimming implicating, his confession was his brother
• 1:36:19
  brianburkhardt. Why not?
• 1:36:21
  And Brian was the Prime is this Brother?
• 1:36:23
  Come on, man, his uncle but honest to give them the name of
• 1:36:29
  the third man who was with Brian and Anna was in Earnest now who
• 1:36:34
  was Is it Kelsey Morrison the informant that they'd had the
• 1:36:40
  entire time. He didn't want to implicate
• 1:36:42
  himself what, in fact, Kelsey Morrison is the person that
• 1:36:46
  killed Anna. Wow.
• 1:36:49
  Okay. So they went to go gather
• 1:36:52
  Morrison and they decide to check on Molly Burkhardt.
• 1:36:56
  He was near death. And coincidentally, as soon as
• 1:37:00
  her husband was locked up and the injection stopped, Molly got
• 1:37:04
  better. To the damn Brothers, what we're
• 1:37:07
  brothers at Hearn has never admitted to poisoning his wife,
• 1:37:11
  the show and brothers were brought in and they were asked
• 1:37:14
  about what they were using to treat Molly, they never gave a
• 1:37:18
  straight answer. Like I read the interviews
• 1:37:23
  there. So kg like, like I said, like,
• 1:37:27
  explain to you the answers that the show and brothers gave were
• 1:37:30
  the same, but also very cagey. Like, at one point he was just
• 1:37:33
  like, Well, why'd you ask the nurse to leave?
• 1:37:36
  He was like, I don't remember asking the nurse to leave.
• 1:37:38
  He was like, well, did she lie? And he's like, no.
• 1:37:39
  If she said, I asked her to leave I did, but there's lots of
• 1:37:42
  reasons why I could ask a nurse to leave, okay?
• 1:37:45
  It was that kind of stuff. Like it was so cyclical.
• 1:37:48
  And honestly, I think that I would white was just like, I'm
• 1:37:52
  fed up with y'all. I want to choke that unlike you
• 1:37:55
  better answer my questions correctly.
• 1:37:58
  No, it was always, it was really kg.
• 1:38:00
  It was very cyclical every time. Like they were like, oh, you
• 1:38:04
  know, are you sure it was insulin that you were giving
• 1:38:06
  Molly Burkhart? Well, we thought it was insulin,
• 1:38:09
  we don't know. We just get the syringes, we're
• 1:38:11
  not putting it in there, you are putting it in her.
• 1:38:16
  So you should know what you're giving a patient.
• 1:38:20
  Paige I hate. Yeah, there they are.
• 1:38:23
  The two. I hate In This Very Room of all
• 1:38:26
  the people. You're mad at your mad at David
• 1:38:28
  show at these two people you're pissing me off.
• 1:38:32
  Okay. Anyway, on this, though, Molly's
• 1:38:35
  like I really want the people who killed my family to go to
• 1:38:39
  prison and they're like everybody.
• 1:38:41
  And she's like, yeah, everybody. And they're like Ernest, she's
• 1:38:43
  like, I love Earnest, she's really struggling.
• 1:38:46
  She's just like, no, it's not him.
• 1:38:50
  It was Earnest to with all the other confessions agent white
• 1:38:55
  goes back to hail. He's like, listen, we have all
• 1:38:59
  this evidence against you. An it's going to be so messy.
• 1:39:03
  Your family is going to be implicated.
• 1:39:05
  It's going to be a big shame to your family.
• 1:39:08
  Do you really want to do all this?
• 1:39:12
  He'll was like I'll fight it. Oh okay.
• 1:39:19
  So, I went to court hail and the co-conspirators were tried in
• 1:39:23
  both state and federal court between 1926 and 1929.
• 1:39:27
  It was state and federal court because some of the murders were
• 1:39:30
  done off the reservation. So those were tried in local
• 1:39:33
  Court, whereas the ones on the reservation, we're done.
• 1:39:37
  We're heading federally, I'm going to save you.
• 1:39:40
  A lot of the sort of details, there were a lot of Deadlock
• 1:39:42
  juries there were appeals overturned verdicts. halfway
• 1:39:48
  through Earnest trial, like he was messed up like he was just
• 1:39:53
  He's described during his trial as just looking Haggard at one
• 1:39:58
  point Hale and him have the same attorney and they bring him in
• 1:40:02
  too. Like he walks in and he was like
• 1:40:07
  wait. He's on our side and so they
• 1:40:13
  make him go talk to that attorney.
• 1:40:15
  And when he comes back, he starts recanting, all of his
• 1:40:18
  confession on the stand. That gets everything.
• 1:40:21
  Shut down. It's a big craziness.
• 1:40:24
  And finally, that night, after Earnest was put back in prison,
• 1:40:27
  he actually requested the judge and he was just like, I don't
• 1:40:29
  want to do this anymore. The judges like what do you
• 1:40:32
  mean? He's like why aren't you talking
• 1:40:33
  to your attorney? He's like, they won't let me do
• 1:40:35
  what I want to do and judges like what do you want to do?
• 1:40:37
  He's like, can I just go to prison for life?
• 1:40:41
  Can we just be done with us? This is really stressful and so
• 1:40:43
  the judge was like okay he's like no death penalty, you just
• 1:40:48
  go to jail forever. Hmm.
• 1:40:52
  He turned State's evidence and told the police that Hale had.
• 1:40:58
  Also gotten George big heart killed as well.
• 1:41:02
  George big heart has been to see hail And then come home and I'd
• 1:41:09
  he implicated his uncle in the poisoning of Joe Bates.
• 1:41:13
  The trials were pretty heated, Kelsey Morrison finally admitted
• 1:41:18
  to killing Anna Brown at the request of hail and he said that
• 1:41:22
  Brian was his. Accomplice Brian also turns
• 1:41:25
  State's evidence, it took four separate Charles to get hail
• 1:41:29
  convicted. Wow.
• 1:41:30
  October 29th 1929, he was only convicted for one murder.
• 1:41:36
  Come on, huh? We didn't rear Owen?
• 1:41:40
  Okay. Well, how long is he put away
• 1:41:42
  for Or he was given life in prison and sent to Leavenworth
• 1:41:46
  Prison in Kansas, okay? Unfortunately.
• 1:41:49
  He was paroled on July, 31st 1947 after serving 17 years in
• 1:41:54
  prison, he moved to Montana because he literally lost
• 1:41:57
  everything in Oklahoma good where he became a ranch hand.
• 1:42:01
  He died in Arizona and 1962 and was buried in Wichita, Kansas,
• 1:42:06
  what'd he, die of natural causes, damn it cools old by
• 1:42:11
  then he was in his 80s. Despite all the setbacks this
• 1:42:16
  was seen as a major win for the bureau, which would become the
• 1:42:19
  FBI in 1935, that's awesome and become its own.
• 1:42:24
  It wasn't just a part of the Department of Justice anymore.
• 1:42:26
  It was its own Federal Bureau of Investigation Bernie's Burkhart
• 1:42:30
  received life in prison and got a full pardon from Oklahoma,
• 1:42:36
  governor Henry bellmon in 1965, he wanted to go to jail, I know.
• 1:42:43
  Molly divorced, her husband. Got remarried to a man named
• 1:42:46
  John Cobb. They were very happy.
• 1:42:48
  Actually, during Ernest trial. Their daughter Anna died.
• 1:42:52
  She was 40. It was really just devastating
• 1:42:57
  for her because she was like, damn, I sent her to go live with
• 1:43:01
  her other family and be safe. And now she's gone.
• 1:43:05
  Yeah. Molly died of natural causes in
• 1:43:09
  1937. Her head right went to her.
• 1:43:12
  Surviving older children, Tom on Tom white went on to have an
• 1:43:16
  illustrious career in the FBI. He actually ended up becoming
• 1:43:20
  one of those college boys that he never liked.
• 1:43:23
  He had a stroke in 1971 at 90 years old and died.
• 1:43:27
  December twenty. First two months later after
• 1:43:30
  this was all exposed, the US government changed the head
• 1:43:33
  right law saying that the allotment could be passed.
• 1:43:37
  Down to two. Nobody other than other postage
• 1:43:41
  tribe members yes in an attempt to make sure the reign of terror
• 1:43:45
  never happened again. No more white men coming in.
• 1:43:49
  Pretty much didn't matter if you married into the family.
• 1:43:52
  If you weren't, if you, you had to be at least 50% blood-quantum
• 1:43:57
  for you to have this head, right?
• 1:43:59
  That's like I said, they do still have the treaty.
• 1:44:02
  Mmm, not the treaty. I'm sorry, they do still have
• 1:44:05
  had Ray and they do still get That allotment but there has
• 1:44:08
  been continuous issues with. The guardianship it's not the
• 1:44:14
  same as it was then but there was still major mismanagement on
• 1:44:19
  a bigger level Kimberly is still going on.
• 1:44:23
  Hey Miss, it's not the guardianship.
• 1:44:26
  Oh my God if we Brittany free free days, right?
• 1:44:30
  Well anything is pointed to a lot of people that
• 1:44:34
  conservatorships and guardianships and things of that
• 1:44:36
  nature are very easily. Get manipulated, manipulated and
• 1:44:41
  taking advantage of Lily. I'm sure some of the, the
• 1:44:45
  children of the Osage tribe, where some of the people who
• 1:44:48
  were just straight robbed because they would have never
• 1:44:50
  even looked at their accounts. Yeah, no they were kids, there
• 1:44:56
  is more to this story. That was recovered.
• 1:45:01
  It was discovered later when reporters looked into the cases,
• 1:45:05
  I'm gonna leave that up to the people listening.
• 1:45:08
  The majority of this podcast today was sourced from the Book
• 1:45:12
  killers of the flower Moon, by David Graham, it is totally
• 1:45:17
  worth reading. You should get yourself a copy.
• 1:45:19
  There is a whole third section that discusses the newer
• 1:45:23
  information that has discovered been discovered.
• 1:45:24
  Recently, there's also another book that I read called the
• 1:45:28
  deaths of Sybil Bolton by Dennis make Olive who learned way later
• 1:45:34
  in life, that his grandmother Sybil Bolton was poisoned during
• 1:45:38
  the reign of terror. That's what the movies called
• 1:45:41
  to. Yes, the Is called Killers, the
• 1:45:43
  flower moon. It's called the Osage murders in
• 1:45:46
  the birth of the FBI together. It is one hell of a story.
• 1:45:50
  I totally understand why it's a movie now.
• 1:45:52
  Yeah, Leonardo playing Ernest. Yeah.
• 1:45:55
  Well, I mean ours was a white guy.
• 1:45:56
  So I know it's interested in who's gonna play the indigenous
• 1:45:59
  women because like, who's playing Rita and Lizzie and
• 1:46:04
  yeah, are they first Nations actresses?
• 1:46:07
  Because I would really like that.
• 1:46:08
  Yeah, Lily Gladstone, playing Molly.
• 1:46:12
  Is that but yeah, I don't know. But it was like I said, one hell
• 1:46:19
  of a story. I got it and this just happened.
• 1:46:23
  Yeah, in our history. Holy cow.
• 1:46:26
  Goodness gracious. That was a story.
• 1:46:30
  I told you like, I was so hype. That's like, this went way
• 1:46:33
  longer. I looked at my notes and was
• 1:46:34
  like, oh dear, we're at like 17 pages, but totally, absolutely
• 1:46:41
  incredibly worth. And if you listen to, thank you
• 1:46:43
  so much, mmm-hmm. So, we got some spook in to talk
• 1:46:48
  about. Now, we got some scrutiny to
• 1:46:50
  talk about. Well, not spookin, okay.
• 1:46:53
  People who investigates broken though?
• 1:46:56
  Oh okay, okay, so about talk about our boy Zak Bagans.
• 1:47:00
  Again, I never talk about I will never there would never be an
• 1:47:06
  episode where I talk about him, maybe definitely not.
• 1:47:10
  Maybe he gets a rest of my for doing it.
• 1:47:12
  Douchebag stuff. Anyway.
• 1:47:14
  No today I'm going to start this off by apologizing, okay,
• 1:47:19
  recanting, I guess whatever. Oh Lily Gladstone as a First
• 1:47:22
  Nations actress knew ye I just didn't know she was I looked her
• 1:47:26
  up. I've heard her name before it is
• 1:47:28
  in no way. I'm gonna start it off by
• 1:47:31
  apologizing to anybody who's listened or who is listening
• 1:47:36
  goes back and listens to any of our earlier episodes when I
• 1:47:41
  first started talking when I was talking, I mentioned Harry,
• 1:47:43
  Houdini and then and then I hear.
• 1:47:45
  I mentioned Harry price as well. Okay.
• 1:47:48
  And I got Harry price next up with Vincent Price.
• 1:47:53
  Oh dear. Because of the same last name,
• 1:47:56
  right? But Vincent Price.
• 1:47:58
  Yeah. So I'd even Pete that the day
• 1:48:01
  you started. Yeah.
• 1:48:02
  It's okay. Like it was earlier episodes,
• 1:48:05
  but I'd confuse Harry price of admission price in the
• 1:48:08
  Scooby-Doo. It's appraised price is like
• 1:48:12
  Like awesome. Awesome people.
• 1:48:14
  Yeah, I know Harry price is awesome people to okay but I
• 1:48:19
  just wanted to go back and correct that it was Vincent huh.
• 1:48:25
  Are we talking about Vincent? No but maybe I should one day
• 1:48:28
  because whole dude Adventure price is.
• 1:48:30
  Yeah. He's one of those pillars that I
• 1:48:32
  like to think about because when I think of is the price, I go.
• 1:48:35
  I know, right? Yes.
• 1:48:38
  You know, weird eyebrow thing. Oh my God.
• 1:48:40
  Yeah, he did. Well, ya know, the animated him
• 1:48:43
  in the Scooby-Doo movies, but oh wow.
• 1:48:46
  Yeah, he was in. That is fucking awesome.
• 1:48:48
  Anyway. No, I'm talking about the other
• 1:48:50
  price today. Okay, Harry price.
• 1:48:53
  Okay. So do you know who Harry price
• 1:48:57
  was cat-like? Offhand name him. okay, well,
• 1:49:05
  Since I already talked about Harry Houdini, yes I'm gonna
• 1:49:08
  talk about her price. Also, Harry price was basically
• 1:49:11
  was he also a magic man. He did sleight of hand.
• 1:49:15
  Oh but here your price was basically the.
• 1:49:19
  Yeah, the UK version of Harry Houdini.
• 1:49:21
  Okay? Okay, so what did he do?
• 1:49:24
  The things like that? I'm locked up inside of a big
• 1:49:26
  old giant case of water situation like those ones.
• 1:49:28
  No, no, no. I feel so anxious.
• 1:49:32
  When I watch this, nothing like that.
• 1:49:35
  I'm watching a murder because look, what Houdini, he kind of
• 1:49:38
  like, started out as a magician, right, and like stage magic and
• 1:49:42
  stuff like that. And he became, you know, but
• 1:49:45
  then he was into like the defrauding of the mediums of
• 1:49:50
  stuff like that. But even then after that he did
• 1:49:52
  stuff that was he did The Escape of rotting mediums.
• 1:49:54
  Yeah. So like his whole career wasn't
• 1:49:58
  like the medium thing is who's kid.
• 1:50:00
  That was towards the. Yeah.
• 1:50:02
  And mainly that was because he got mad about the mediums and
• 1:50:04
  his Look look, understandable. Yeah, listen, I don't want you
• 1:50:09
  to mention anybody. Who I know who has died, fam,
• 1:50:15
  tell me about some stranger's, but if the person mentioned
• 1:50:18
  somebody, I know me. Mad too.
• 1:50:20
  Yeah. Especially if you get it wrong
• 1:50:22
  because like he's like, yeah, your mom learned English and the
• 1:50:26
  afterlife get out of here. Oh, mama is Hungarian how she
• 1:50:31
  won't learn English. She ain't speak English dies.
• 1:50:34
  Oh my God. Yeah, but did okay, so what
• 1:50:37
  Harry price do? Something similar here plays,
• 1:50:39
  did you something similar? So, here, price, he started his
• 1:50:43
  career out, basically with the Supernatural and then what a
• 1:50:49
  paranormal, and then he learned sleight-of-hand magic and stuff
• 1:50:53
  like that on his on his way. So this is a story.
• 1:50:56
  I'm going to tell this it's going to be like a multi-part
• 1:50:59
  because I got another your other cases from Harry price.
• 1:51:02
  I want to talk about. Oh, so you're talking about one
• 1:51:04
  particular A price case. I'm going to I'm going to do
• 1:51:06
  like a little sure what to say because I do I did tell you that
• 1:51:10
  I wrote too much and I was like, okay well let me just stop right
• 1:51:14
  now. You could have gone with no
• 1:51:17
  three-hour episode. We can have a three hour episode
• 1:51:19
  like next week. Okay.
• 1:51:21
  No it probably won't be as long bet.
• 1:51:26
  Are you know I'm going to talk about next week.
• 1:51:28
  I already planned it. So there you go.
• 1:51:30
  Won't be as bad also. I got a I got stuff to do after
• 1:51:34
  we record next week. That's right.
• 1:51:35
  You do hit me. Never mind not 3 hours. 3 hours
• 1:51:42
  anyway. Maybe episode 50.
• 1:51:49
  So in London I don't think this was cool on his part but he kind
• 1:52:01
  of wanted to change some details about his early childhood.
• 1:52:05
  Oh dear. Basically, mainly where he was
• 1:52:07
  born, people always to do that, though.
• 1:52:11
  So he wanted people. Like, if you read, I read one of
• 1:52:14
  his books when I was writing this up Confessions of a ghost
• 1:52:19
  hunter, okay? I think that's what it was
• 1:52:21
  called and he States in her, he was born.
• 1:52:26
  In. Oh, so fry shove cephalic.
• 1:52:32
  No, not so folk, it's sh ROP. Shi re it's something sure.
• 1:52:45
  Yeah. Yeah I'm not getting all the
• 1:52:47
  letters you're saying. But literally somebody on my
• 1:52:50
  timeline the other day was just like rope, she likes to sure.
• 1:52:54
  They literally were like, if I have nothing to tell Americans
• 1:52:57
  it's was sure. It is what?
• 1:53:00
  Yes, it's Schroeder. Shire is sure.
• 1:53:04
  It's that I know for sure is Shropshire, that's not sure.
• 1:53:08
  All right. And not where he was born,
• 1:53:10
  that's not where he was born, but he did study there and it's
• 1:53:14
  a really nice place. I guess it's a lot of wealthy
• 1:53:16
  people live there at that time. So he wanted people to think I
• 1:53:20
  got wealthy parents and stuff like that.
• 1:53:22
  Why was that something he worried about?
• 1:53:23
  I don't know. Sure, he was actually born in
• 1:53:26
  New cross and his father was a traveling salesman.
• 1:53:31
  Nobody liked traveling salesman. We stay still.
• 1:53:33
  Don't, it's a weird one of those jobs that like was necessary,
• 1:53:38
  but people hated that, The same way that people hate when people
• 1:53:41
  come to your door now. Yeah that's why I had that.
• 1:53:43
  I have that nice. No soliciting sign that says no
• 1:53:46
  soliciting don't render Bill, don't knock, don't make it
• 1:53:50
  weird. I have received so much, Mormon
• 1:53:53
  stuff in the last, like, two months crazy.
• 1:53:55
  Someone Mormon must be moved into this apartment.
• 1:53:58
  I was like, am I just don't even want to talk to you?
• 1:54:00
  Please don't talk to me. Oh my God.
• 1:54:03
  I got a thing. Do you have a church?
• 1:54:06
  Leave me alone. Leave me alone.
• 1:54:10
  Anyway, at the age of 15, he found it.
• 1:54:13
  The Carlton dramatic society, which is now called the carton
• 1:54:18
  theater group, okay? It's place where amateur actors,
• 1:54:21
  they go us, nice, play rates and stuff like that.
• 1:54:25
  And this is where he wrote his first play, the skeptic, which
• 1:54:29
  was an account of his first ghost experience while he was
• 1:54:33
  investigating his first haunted house.
• 1:54:36
  So as at age 15 like there was a haunted house in there and you
• 1:54:39
  know people Oil, they were reporting Poltergeist type
• 1:54:42
  activity. So, you know, he goes there, he
• 1:54:45
  checks it out and he writes this play about it and this is
• 1:54:49
  basically the only reason why he founded this kolchin Dramatic
• 1:54:54
  Society is so he could write this play about him.
• 1:54:58
  Going to investigate this haunted house.
• 1:55:00
  Okay, yeah. But yeah, he goes into great
• 1:55:05
  detail about this in his book, The confession of a girl's ghost
• 1:55:09
  hunter, okay? You can find on arxiv.org.
• 1:55:13
  It's the whole thing is there. I've looked for other books that
• 1:55:17
  he has other books are but they're like.
• 1:55:19
  That one's actually really good. So he was also interested in our
• 1:55:23
  College archaeology, which is really cool.
• 1:55:26
  It was a coin collector to and you know, just small little
• 1:55:30
  tidbits of things that you know make him awesome.
• 1:55:35
  An early influence to his life's work was the great.
• 1:55:44
  I cannot pronounce his name. I tried it so many times is it's
• 1:55:49
  like, okay, so it's basically, I'm not saying it.
• 1:55:54
  I'm not seeing any, but it's a traveling Merchant basically.
• 1:56:01
  Yeah, right? Yeah, it did SSE cue, You ch.
• 1:56:10
  The any EQ? Yeah uch uch.
• 1:56:17
  Are you eh? Yeah yet?
• 1:56:20
  Even spell it. You I forgot you hate your
• 1:56:22
  writing. So anyway we're not talking
• 1:56:25
  about the right now. Sequitur.
• 1:56:27
  Yeah, there you go. So it's like that, that word.
• 1:56:33
  So basically, this person is like a traveling Merchant or
• 1:56:36
  they like a traveling Medicine, Man.
• 1:56:38
  Okay? Like, oh, that makes sense like
• 1:56:40
  a. It sounds a digital.
• 1:56:42
  Yeah. Like, a flim-flam man sort of
• 1:56:44
  that sale snake oil and stuff like that too.
• 1:56:47
  So I looked up the name, snake oil salesman and it's like,
• 1:56:53
  there's a whiskey neat after his to, or some type of alcohol, is
• 1:56:56
  really cool looking. But yeah, so they did like magic
• 1:56:59
  and stuff like that. So, Hee hee.
• 1:57:07
  After you know, after he devotes his life to like this stuff he
• 1:57:11
  goes into the society is called a magic circle.
• 1:57:14
  Okay. It's a British organisation made
• 1:57:18
  for promoting the Arts of magic. So, here is where he learns his
• 1:57:27
  sleight-of-hand and some like little parlor tricks.
• 1:57:33
  So he's in the society about magic and in the society amount
• 1:57:37
  of magic he's also learning about like, Conjuring things,
• 1:57:41
  you know, I magicians, they conjure, I don't know, rabbits
• 1:57:44
  out of hats or, you know, doves out of her arms and stuff like
• 1:57:47
  that. So that counts is Conjuring and
• 1:57:51
  I mean, that's probably not the kind of conjuring, he was
• 1:57:53
  learning but that's what I'm thinking.
• 1:57:58
  Yeah. So this gives them like a leg up
• 1:58:05
  on wanting to learn more about paranormal.
• 1:58:09
  So he after you know, he's in this magic circle, he joins the
• 1:58:12
  society for physical research in 1920, okay?
• 1:58:19
  And he was interested in mediums like Houdini but unlike Houdini
• 1:58:25
  Price, He endorsed, who did, he endorse mediums that he actually
• 1:58:31
  believed were like, correct? Yeah.
• 1:58:34
  So unlike Houdini, who was just like, I'm not going to believe
• 1:58:38
  anything. I like what the meetings.
• 1:58:43
  Yeah. Hmm.
• 1:58:44
  I'm more like Houdini well, trust your dad files.
• 1:58:47
  Okay, her name is Amy. I forget her last name, but I
• 1:58:51
  like her show. It's corroborated by a police
• 1:58:55
  officer. Oh wow.
• 1:58:56
  Okay. Well, former police officer who
• 1:58:58
  seems like a nice guy, you know, that means something to me.
• 1:59:01
  Okay, yeah. Okay.
• 1:59:03
  Okay. Your benefit of the doubt.
• 1:59:06
  Hmm, But yeah. So he endures mediums that you
• 1:59:10
  don't want a real deal. So here is one of his earlier
• 1:59:15
  cases. All right?
• 1:59:16
  Like one of his very first cases so this is interesting because
• 1:59:19
  this guy Started out amateur Ghost, Hunter at 15, grows up,
• 1:59:26
  he's an immature, Willis Hunter archaeologist coin collector.
• 1:59:29
  He wrote plays starting to feel very much Jack of all trades,
• 1:59:33
  master of none. Just say, So February 1922 price
• 1:59:43
  in a group of some magicians that were in his group.
• 1:59:49
  They go, they're investigating one of the most famous spiritual
• 1:59:54
  photographers of the time. His name was William hope, okay?
• 1:59:58
  And hope so hope was a member of the crew Circle.
• 2:00:06
  So this is a group of people who Were basically just all spare
• 2:00:10
  photographers, okay? And what hope would do, you
• 2:00:17
  know, he would offer his services to people.
• 2:00:20
  Of course, he gets pure Spirit, photographs taken.
• 2:00:23
  And the way he would do this is that he would get people that
• 2:00:28
  hold plates, I guess, and their pictures.
• 2:00:31
  And after, you know, pictures were developed, they develop and
• 2:00:35
  have a spirit behind them. Yeah.
• 2:00:37
  Yeah. I've seen these.
• 2:00:38
  Yeah. Yeah, they're actually some
• 2:00:40
  really beautiful ones from him. There's the one with the two
• 2:00:44
  people in the front and then there's a lady with a veil right
• 2:00:47
  behind them. Super cool.
• 2:00:50
  Yeah, fake as hell. Very cool though.
• 2:00:52
  That's a creepy picture, but yeah, like it's really hard for
• 2:00:55
  me because I went to school for photography.
• 2:00:58
  So and I got to use old timey cameras.
• 2:01:03
  Literally, all you have to do to make a spirit.
• 2:01:05
  Photographed is while the camera is just sitting there with the
• 2:01:10
  silver exposure, right? And past, it's because it took
• 2:01:14
  so long for the exposures to saddle that it anything that
• 2:01:20
  just darted by. So, there are pictures of like
• 2:01:22
  bugs zoom in by that like cause people to fix this with
• 2:01:25
  superiors. If it was from the 1920s, I
• 2:01:28
  don't trust it. As far as the spirit photography
• 2:01:30
  goes like, I said, he did some Oppressive thing, you know, they
• 2:01:34
  didn't look blurry, they looked cool.
• 2:01:36
  Ya know, some of his pictures. They were like I looked at them.
• 2:01:39
  They're actually really, really nice.
• 2:01:41
  Really good. As I just know.
• 2:01:42
  The one, the one, with the lady in the veil.
• 2:01:44
  That's the one that I've seen that, I think is incredible.
• 2:01:46
  There's another one, there's one of Richard Price.
• 2:01:49
  He got one taken not Richard. Got Richard Harry Potter Harry
• 2:01:53
  price. God, I want to see that one
• 2:01:56
  here. You prior Richard Pryor hold on,
• 2:01:59
  Richard Pryor the comedian Ryan. Hold on here.
• 2:02:06
  Um, it's picture. The picture one Harry price.
• 2:02:13
  This one right here. Now look at this picture and
• 2:02:16
  tell me that's not a fucking. Just look at it.
• 2:02:18
  It's another lady with a veil but look at that lady's face.
• 2:02:23
  you can tell it's like a It's not.
• 2:02:28
  Oh yeah she looks like a mask. Yeah it looks like a freaking
• 2:02:30
  statue or also fun fact. Yes.
• 2:02:34
  So the way so you've used Photoshop, you are, you know,
• 2:02:39
  that the different things on Photoshop or referred to as
• 2:02:42
  layers layers? Yeah.
• 2:02:43
  That goes back to stuff that you had to do in Dark rooms, which I
• 2:02:46
  also learned how to do in college when we had a whole dark
• 2:02:50
  room year. Where you physically layered
• 2:02:56
  things on top of your, like exposure.
• 2:03:02
  And that's when you like, turn the light to expose it.
• 2:03:04
  So there were actually ways that you could, it's very plausible,
• 2:03:07
  he did that here. Yes, said of catching it in
• 2:03:11
  picture because like I said, when people walked onto the
• 2:03:15
  exposure, it showed us blurry. This looks almost like two
• 2:03:19
  separate pictures next to each other.
• 2:03:21
  Yep, which he very well could Could have merge those together
• 2:03:24
  in the dark room. It's really intriguing.
• 2:03:27
  I didn't know any of that stuff and tie.
• 2:03:29
  I did it officially in school. It's just recourse, you know, I
• 2:03:32
  grew up on digital cameras. So we spend the whole first year
• 2:03:35
  just learning the old ways. Goodness pain-in-the-ass
• 2:03:39
  carrying around that big old Honker I believe it and setting
• 2:03:42
  it up in Philadelphia. so, another person got their picture
• 2:03:50
  taken is Sir. Arthur Conan Doyle really love
• 2:03:55
  it. Do you remember him from Houdini
• 2:03:59
  episode? No, Sir.
• 2:04:01
  Arthur Conan Doyle. Oh yeah, of course.
• 2:04:03
  He's loves his, he loves the spiritualism.
• 2:04:06
  He's and he's, you know, he's in that scene.
• 2:04:09
  So I'm not gonna lie, Sir, Arthur Conan Doyle Spirit
• 2:04:13
  picture. So yeah, the picture you got was
• 2:04:15
  of his dead sister. and oh, his looks way more janky, but
• 2:04:29
  Pricing price had this whole group his magicians.
• 2:04:33
  They had this plan to see if they could prove this this
• 2:04:40
  disproved. I love it.
• 2:04:43
  This is so funny. Look at this one.
• 2:04:45
  This proof hope. Yeah this looks so bad.
• 2:04:49
  Yeah. It's just it's like a picture
• 2:04:51
  just plopped on top of another picture freaking terrible.
• 2:04:54
  Who are these people being the ghosts for?
• 2:04:56
  Haven't, you know, I need to find a book about Mm hope
• 2:04:59
  because I'm like, I'm sure Lord, who was, who are these actors?
• 2:05:02
  Who are like, bat. I'm gonna get my like five
• 2:05:05
  dollars for the day to be a ghost verbally.
• 2:05:09
  Him hope. I know.
• 2:05:11
  I think it's could you use anybody else at that point?
• 2:05:13
  Once you were in one picture, he couldn't use you again.
• 2:05:15
  Yeah, probably not. Oh, it's beautiful.
• 2:05:20
  It's just super funny when you put this on YouTube, you just
• 2:05:22
  have to show all these pictures that I'm laughing.
• 2:05:28
  This is the good one. Okay, there is the mask.
• 2:05:31
  Isn't it? Looks it looks a little bit like
• 2:05:33
  a mass, but she also looks kind of real.
• 2:05:35
  It's just a weird Veil. And I just like chilling.
• 2:05:37
  They're like okay, we're taking a picture.
• 2:05:39
  Okay, okay but my thing is, when you think it was like a little
• 2:05:43
  bit Suspicious that he was able to get all of these Spirit
• 2:05:48
  photos and show many of them are in just such good detail and
• 2:05:52
  it's 1922, that's why he had investigators coming to check
• 2:05:56
  him out. Okay, so like I said Harry price
• 2:06:00
  and his crew magicians they have this they have this method
• 2:06:03
  worked out and so What it was, is it consistent of presenting,
• 2:06:10
  hope, with a set of glass negatives that had been secretly
• 2:06:15
  marked with x-rays. So it's trap worked.
• 2:06:22
  So when hope return the plates, the one, the one continue the
• 2:06:26
  extra Spirit image. Yeah, showed no sign of the
• 2:06:30
  markings he used his own. Yep.
• 2:06:32
  So you switched out the ones that the X-ray ones with his
• 2:06:36
  own, gotcha. So yeah, like I said, but you
• 2:06:42
  could very easily just been like, oh, I like to use my own
• 2:06:44
  supplies but he let people bring their own plates in the stuff
• 2:06:47
  too. Okay.
• 2:06:49
  So it was just weird that he would switch it out, you know?
• 2:06:52
  They're mean if you have people bring us up.
• 2:06:56
  Okay, so he's called they're like okay dude we know you
• 2:07:01
  switched out, this is this this is what happened and you know so
• 2:07:05
  he was doing this during the the - process.
• 2:07:07
  Yeah. So, after, you know, they find
• 2:07:11
  him guilty of this spiritualist spiritualism was like, no, no,
• 2:07:16
  you guys just out here. You're trying to frame our boy
• 2:07:19
  for. Okay, you guys little medium
• 2:07:23
  buddies to show. Ya trim.
• 2:07:25
  Frame of really hope like the community.
• 2:07:29
  They are supportive but for the wrong.
• 2:07:33
  Oh, no. He's better wrong.
• 2:07:35
  They're wrong for supporting him because he definitely picked it
• 2:07:38
  and they were Faking it to they were if you mess it, if you mess
• 2:07:42
  him up, you mess us up. So yeah, they're like you're
• 2:07:46
  wrong for trying to like expose him as a fraud.
• 2:07:48
  Like even Conan Doyle he was like, he came to the, you know,
• 2:07:52
  Harry price and screws like hey guys, could you like recant what
• 2:07:56
  you said about Hope? Because I believe he's.
• 2:08:00
  All right. And there we else's, and we
• 2:08:02
  don't want to see anything. Like, let's see, him going down
• 2:08:05
  the time, basically, we just want to believe in ghosts, but
• 2:08:10
  there are people out there who believe in this, and they're
• 2:08:13
  being hurt by this. You know, like what the Houdini
• 2:08:17
  thing, people are going to these mediums like, expecting an
• 2:08:20
  actual real experience, and they're going to be putting
• 2:08:22
  their entire life savings on these mediums.
• 2:08:26
  They spent all of their money chasing after this idea that
• 2:08:30
  they could see or hear, or talk to their dead relatives again,
• 2:08:34
  it was real bad. Yes.
• 2:08:39
  So I do feel bad about that. Yeah, that sucks.
• 2:08:44
  Yeah, so once Okay so When when Conan goes to price and he's
• 2:08:58
  like can you do this in prices like nah?
• 2:09:01
  Brah. Like this is this is what I do
• 2:09:08
  so. So he goes and writes his
• 2:09:11
  pamphlet about his side of the story and how you know it's
• 2:09:17
  serious when there's a pamphlet. Oh yeah.
• 2:09:18
  Definitely in about you know how hoped William hope is like this?
• 2:09:22
  He's right about this stuff. I'll remind you guys Conan
• 2:09:28
  Doyle. He was a believer of all things,
• 2:09:30
  paranormal and spiritual and he didn't like being wrong.
• 2:09:35
  So he even went as far as the contacting his good buddy.
• 2:09:39
  Harry Houdini at this time to. I think they're still friends at
• 2:09:43
  this time. He's before they like completely
• 2:09:45
  had that following. Yeah, I believe so.
• 2:09:49
  Can you get your fellow magic buddy and tell him to leave me
• 2:09:52
  alone and Houdini was kind of like conflicted, right?
• 2:09:58
  When because at this time, he was also on his way to go
• 2:10:01
  investigate. Hope this like this man is just
• 2:10:13
  lying. That wasn't really your sister.
• 2:10:18
  Oh my God. L write another book so I have
• 2:10:22
  what he wrote to Houdini. So he wrote this letter to ready
• 2:10:25
  on April 13th. 1922 and he writes I've written a book on
• 2:10:31
  Psychic photography with special reference to the crew.
• 2:10:34
  Circle the evidence in their favour is overwhelming though.
• 2:10:40
  What happened on a special occasion with two, amateur
• 2:10:43
  conjurer's out of his stunts in a third dingwall behind them?
• 2:10:49
  What it is, is more than I can say.
• 2:10:53
  We found that another test was in dependably carried out about
• 2:10:59
  the same time. Well, I guess my other is
• 2:11:02
  situation. So they're talking about the,
• 2:11:04
  the silver plates, right? The ones that they that means is
• 2:11:08
  how you did photos back that. Yeah.
• 2:11:11
  And so, they're saying that they had little bits in the, the
• 2:11:14
  silver plates. I don't think what they got.
• 2:11:19
  I think Hope was a total fraud, but I don't think what they got
• 2:11:22
  was really enough to say. He was a complete and total
• 2:11:24
  fraud, I guess, since he switched the plates out, Could
• 2:11:29
  he could have come up with an E lot.
• 2:11:30
  Like it'll come up with loads of logical reasons why you may be a
• 2:11:33
  broke. You know, the array.
• 2:11:35
  I'm so sorry. Your Originals got messed up.
• 2:11:37
  I had to use my own instead, like I feel like you was just a
• 2:11:41
  bad shyster because I'm come up with a good lie as to why he
• 2:11:46
  used a different one. Well, you probably wasn't caught
• 2:11:47
  before either church and so he's like, oh yeah, little that we
• 2:11:50
  call that. Like, they think that they're
• 2:11:52
  like, you know, a humorous. Yeah, he had a little bit of
• 2:11:55
  that hubris. And that's like, really, what
• 2:11:57
  messed him up. Up them, like I can think of a
• 2:11:58
  million reasons why I would be like nah, I use my own stuff.
• 2:12:03
  Yep. So after he writes this letter
• 2:12:06
  to, you know, Houdini Houdini's like, hmm, not really impressed
• 2:12:09
  by this sir. So, like I said, yeah, well I
• 2:12:13
  love his reasoning. Listen, I wrote a book and like
• 2:12:16
  if you release this information, my books going to be wrong.
• 2:12:20
  He thinks ticklish. So like can you know, I can you
• 2:12:26
  like comment down over there with Your and I get it but like
• 2:12:30
  I have a book to sell sir. So like doesn't matter because
• 2:12:35
  after where they're no longer friends anymore?
• 2:12:37
  Yeah. So like I said, burn that
• 2:12:40
  bridge, right? He really did, he really did it
• 2:12:44
  was bad Houdini was already on his way?
• 2:12:47
  Well, he was yeah, he was planning on going to investigate
• 2:12:50
  William hope, but they got there first.
• 2:12:53
  Okay, what do scheduling Houdini couldn't go?
• 2:12:55
  So he had someone else it in on and get a picture taken for him.
• 2:12:59
  He did the same thing. That that price did.
• 2:13:03
  What do you know the plates? And I will say, it's It shows
• 2:13:09
  some level of skill, we're talking mid-1920s being able to
• 2:13:14
  to do that and make it look like oh, yeah, absolutely Sir, Arthur
• 2:13:19
  Conan Conan. Doyle's, actual sister.
• 2:13:22
  Yeah, that's skill. That means that he had to
• 2:13:25
  manufacture a lot of drawing and adjustments, which also explains
• 2:13:31
  why he couldn't use, just that one play here because he was
• 2:13:35
  probably using multiple layers of to get that image.
• 2:13:39
  You could tell like that one. You just showed me what the big
• 2:13:41
  face and like the middle. You can tell it's like different
• 2:13:44
  plates on top of. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:13:46
  So I mean that would explain why he didn't have.
• 2:13:49
  It wasn't done with just one. Yeah.
• 2:13:51
  It was done with multiple layers, you still very
• 2:13:53
  interesting. It really is like you, you put
• 2:13:55
  in the work for this. I like you're still faking a
• 2:13:58
  fraud, but you put into words what an impressive way of using
• 2:14:02
  your skill set? Oh, goodness.
• 2:14:08
  There's, there's important things you can do in post like
• 2:14:11
  the whole concept of like dodging photos and things of
• 2:14:14
  that nature, that's done in post, when you're, you know,
• 2:14:17
  making something darker, making something lighter, that that
• 2:14:19
  process is useful and can make the picture look better.
• 2:14:23
  Yeah, he just did all that stuff.
• 2:14:25
  Just to lie to make a quick buck.
• 2:14:30
  So after, you know, Houdini does this thing.
• 2:14:35
  Sir, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle? Okay, he writes another letter
• 2:14:40
  to Houdini. Oh no, basically saying that.
• 2:14:44
  Okay, so we're not friends anymore.
• 2:14:48
  No nothing. He writes and says, hey, those
• 2:14:54
  place, I had those x-ray markings on them.
• 2:14:57
  Those x-ray markings they disappear after a while.
• 2:14:59
  So, obviously he wasn't used. He did use their place at the
• 2:15:05
  They did that, they brought but the X-ray markings disappeared.
• 2:15:09
  Hmm. So, after you get this letter,
• 2:15:12
  Houdini was like all right, sometimes I'm tired of being
• 2:15:15
  like the middleman. So he goes and he contacts
• 2:15:18
  price. So Harry price in Houdini Dirk
• 2:15:21
  under buddy, buddy. So they're kind of cool guys
• 2:15:24
  together. And he tells price about the,
• 2:15:29
  you know, the X-ray, your stuff in prices.
• 2:15:30
  Like dude, I'm all right. On top of this because I know
• 2:15:34
  for a fact, he's x-ray markings, don't disappear.
• 2:15:37
  Yeah. When you said that my face did a
• 2:15:40
  what? Yeah that's not how that works
• 2:15:43
  at all. I'm like whatever sir the whale.
• 2:15:51
  Yeah and who do you like all right cool.
• 2:15:55
  Cool long as you know All right. So I like that, though.
• 2:16:00
  I'm not a professional courtesy for people uncovering fraud.
• 2:16:04
  Absolutely, just letting you know, he's saying that you gave
• 2:16:07
  him bad plates. It disappeared.
• 2:16:10
  It was your fault. He's like, no.
• 2:16:12
  No, don't worry. I got this.
• 2:16:13
  Yeah, there's there's this whole back and forth between these
• 2:16:18
  three guys. Okay, the Houdini just being the
• 2:16:20
  middleman with Nicole. You couldn't do it.
• 2:16:23
  You just coming to him and saying, hey, your body price is
• 2:16:27
  wrong about this and this is why it would be so annoyed.
• 2:16:31
  Yeah, and phrases like, yo, get your boy Conan Doyle out of here
• 2:16:34
  because he's, he's harassing the hell out of me and my group.
• 2:16:40
  We're just trying to take pictures of ghosts.
• 2:16:42
  God. Oh my God.
• 2:16:48
  I tell ya, I only want to see a picture of a ghost somewhere
• 2:16:50
  that I'm never coming back to. Because if his ones in my house
• 2:16:53
  like this yellow house now, fam, Guess you live here?
• 2:16:57
  Yeah but soon years later. Okay Conan Doyle he admits
• 2:17:03
  defeat. After years years of harassing
• 2:17:06
  Harry price about just this one thing.
• 2:17:10
  Like I mean they didn't ever released the book though.
• 2:17:13
  The pamphlet? Yeah.
• 2:17:14
  Yeah, I'm pretty sure you did well.
• 2:17:16
  Did he release the book about how he had studied ghosts
• 2:17:20
  photography and all that stuff? I'm pretty sure he did.
• 2:17:22
  We look up. If you look him up, I'm pretty
• 2:17:25
  sure you'll find it. But I want to know he's like I'm
• 2:17:28
  just gonna release this book anyway.
• 2:17:29
  Screw it. But yeah, that's funny but like
• 2:17:39
  I said they dropped their whole career Harry price in Sir Arthur
• 2:17:44
  Arthur Conan Doyle. They never saw eye-to-eye to
• 2:17:47
  fight. They just stopped to fight each
• 2:17:50
  other. It's crazy.
• 2:17:51
  It was crazy. And like paraphrase, he was like
• 2:17:54
  the nicer version of Houdini. Like, he gave me was a benefit
• 2:17:58
  of the doubt and Houdini was like, all right.
• 2:18:01
  I know you're faking from. Neither thing.
• 2:18:02
  Is that Houdini's? Just like, I'm just gonna have
• 2:18:04
  some He crawled under this fucking tape.
• 2:18:09
  Watch your legs. Oh my God.
• 2:18:14
  So after exposing after this whole situation, whole thing is
• 2:18:18
  blown over now. And after exposed like this is
• 2:18:21
  his first case I mind you. So after exposing a few more
• 2:18:26
  people at the spr Harry price, he starts his own organizations
• 2:18:31
  called the National Laboratory of physical research.
• 2:18:36
  He gets a little bit of flak from the spr that he was in,
• 2:18:40
  because he actually paid his median, the mediums that he came
• 2:18:43
  that came in to his test. He paid them for a time and
• 2:18:48
  they're like, don't don't be paying these mediums.
• 2:18:51
  Like, they might be frauds, how are you paying these frogs?
• 2:18:54
  You know what I mean? You're just giving money to
• 2:18:58
  frogs. I'm just saying because that's
• 2:19:02
  like, yeah, but like, they're there.
• 2:19:06
  Spr whole thing was, you know, we're going to find out these,
• 2:19:09
  you know, or find these mediums that are, you know, doing
• 2:19:11
  fraudulent readings and stuff like that.
• 2:19:14
  But here prizes like well yeah, but they're coming to me to do
• 2:19:20
  the readings and stuff. So I'm gonna give him the
• 2:19:23
  painting for the time and you know, it's only fair and I agree
• 2:19:27
  with you like what he did there. so, there are many more cases
• 2:19:36
  like I said in the beginning that your price was involved in
• 2:19:39
  this was this one was just like the tip of the iceberg, like his
• 2:19:43
  starting point, and I will be covering One or two more, maybe
• 2:19:49
  like there's a big one. I'm going to cover it like next
• 2:19:51
  week's. Okay.
• 2:19:53
  But either way, Price was praised for his work at, you
• 2:19:59
  know, the bunking, fake mediums and his paranormal investigation
• 2:20:03
  skills. Okay, there have been several
• 2:20:06
  biographies written about Harry price, some critical some
• 2:20:11
  sympathetic so very, very critical.
• 2:20:15
  There was one that was released in 2006.
• 2:20:18
  I about how he was a con man in stuff like that.
• 2:20:23
  It was like, dude. Dude, I'm pretty sure know that
• 2:20:26
  that he was exposing the con people, true.
• 2:20:32
  I mean, yeah, we're out here to bunking things and mediums.
• 2:20:36
  There are people out there who are writers and who don't like
• 2:20:40
  you even write bad things about you.
• 2:20:43
  Yeah no I understood. Yeah so price would later died
• 2:20:50
  at his home or March 29th. 1948 from a massive heart attack and
• 2:20:59
  that's what I got for this week. It's not as long as I should
• 2:21:07
  just wait until next week. I got some stuff for you.
• 2:21:09
  It's going to make you laugh and it's going to be funny.
• 2:21:12
  So we interesting, it's gonna be compelling All right.
• 2:21:20
  Well, I'm interested more stories.
• 2:21:22
  Good, you're getting more, you're going to get more.
• 2:21:26
  What do you like it or not? Goodness.
• 2:21:31
  Well, I just interesting path we've taken today.
• 2:21:35
  Yeah, I just, I don't know. I just like, I like the game of
• 2:21:37
  telephone between these grown-ass, man.
• 2:21:42
  I just like how you got here your price or just know.
• 2:21:46
  They're they're doing the same thing.
• 2:21:48
  So they're buddies, they have their own community, and then
• 2:21:53
  you have Conan Doyle out here with his group of spiritualist.
• 2:21:57
  And they're just like, look, we're gonna curse you and you
• 2:22:01
  all this stuff, if you don't stop telling the truth.
• 2:22:05
  Oh, I just love. I just love to debunking and
• 2:22:10
  just invasive investigation into the stuff.
• 2:22:12
  It's really awesome. But yeah, that's it for me.
• 2:22:18
  Hope you guys enjoyed the episode this week.
• 2:22:20
  Yeah, I think we had a good time.
• 2:22:23
  Yeah, always. Have a good time.
• 2:22:24
  Is always fun. And then your story is always.
• 2:22:28
  They always throw me for a loop. That's because the the shortened
• 2:22:33
  version of what we know. Like, there's always so much
• 2:22:36
  more to it, so there's always a backstory to something.
• 2:22:43
  Yeah, somebody told me that they listen to last week's podcast
• 2:22:46
  three times. What?
• 2:22:48
  Yeah, I was like, oh well. Thank you.
• 2:22:54
  Oh, my God. Why why did you do that?
• 2:22:56
  I guess they were really into You mad at me?
• 2:23:02
  Were you also mad that you learned?
• 2:23:04
  What was as Catherine night? Yeah, you learned that her first
• 2:23:08
  husband or whatever was cheating on her when she was accusing him
• 2:23:11
  of cheating on her and I was like, no, he was cheating on
• 2:23:13
  her, but he's actually cheating on her.
• 2:23:15
  Yeah, you were really upset when I brought that point out.
• 2:23:17
  You were like, wait, no, like, how dare you sir?
• 2:23:22
  Oh my God, dang it for being a scoundrel.
• 2:23:25
  He still didn't deserve to be like beat with a frying pan.
• 2:23:29
  No fan. Okay, no, he did not but he
• 2:23:31
  also, but regardless, thank you for listening to the 30-some
• 2:23:36
  percent of people who stay till the very end do.
• 2:23:39
  Yeah, you're also do stay in the end.
• 2:23:41
  I actually just would love to invite you to be a part of this
• 2:23:46
  with us. We have so many ways that you
• 2:23:48
  can talk to us more. Some of those are through
• 2:23:50
  patreon, you can send messages, we respond through patreon.
• 2:23:54
  Ryan talks to people on there. Like I said, for people who do
• 2:23:58
  do the 50, Dollar tear, you get to have a Q&A with us once a
• 2:24:03
  month. You can talk about whatever you
• 2:24:04
  like. You can give us any sort of
• 2:24:07
  criticism that you want. We have our own little like I am
• 2:24:12
  a once a month you have access to the extra podcast.
• 2:24:17
  Yep which is gonna get spooky this October.
• 2:24:20
  Oh goodness, working on it along with a lot of other things.
• 2:24:29
  So, thank you for listening. Yeah, we appreciate it a night.