Latest / Queer Voices / October 14 - Nell Campbell from ROCKY HORROR and Avital Kushilevich from Zero-Proof Pub

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October 14 - Nell Campbell from ROCKY HORROR and Avital Kushilevich from Zero-Proof Pub · Queer Voices

0:05
Brett: You are listening to Queer Voices, a radio show that has been on KPFT 90.1 Houston for over five decades.
0:13
Brett: We're also a podcast.
0:15
Brett: I am Brett Cullum, and tonight, my unconventional conventionalists, we have a very special talk with the original Columbia from the Rocky Horror Show and the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
0:28
Brett: Nell Campbell.
0:30
Brett: Nell will be hosting a special showing of the Rocky Horror Picture Show at the House of Blues on Friday, October 23rd.
0:38
Brett: After that, Matthew Williams sits down with Avatar Kushilovich, who has started Zero Proof Up Crawl.
0:46
Brett: So apparently, you can be sober and do the time warp.
0:51
Brett: Just a reminder, KPFT is listener-funded, and we rely on people like you for our donations to stay on the air.
0:58
Brett: You can support us at KPFT.org.
1:01
Brett: So throw us something to keep this Sonic Transducer on the air.
1:07
Brett: Queer Voices start now.
1:14
Brett: Hi there, this is Brett Cullum, and Houston is going to dance the Time Warp again when the Rocky Horror Picture Show's 40 City Spooktacular Tour hits the House of Blues on October 23rd.
1:27
Brett: And we are in for a huge treat because it is hosted by the film's original Columbia, Nell Campbell.
1:34
Brett: Now, there's going to be highlights of the evening, including the live QA with Miss Campbell, a local shadow cast performing in sync with the film, of course.
1:42
Brett: And Nell Campbell is going to judge you on your costumes with prizes for the top three.
1:47
Brett: So bring your A game.
1:49
Brett: And we're going to have, of course, How Can We Not, a tribute to the late Tim Curry.
1:54
Brett: Now, tickets are scarce, but you can still get the balcony as of today.
1:58
Brett: But with me here today is the legendary, the iconic Starlit little Nell Campbell.
2:04
SPEAKER_06: Oh darling.
2:06
SPEAKER_06: I'm very, very well, thank you.
2:08
SPEAKER_06: That was a little introduction.
2:12
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
2:12
SPEAKER_06: Well, I mean, I should be so lucky.
2:14
SPEAKER_06: I'm lucky.
2:15
SPEAKER_06: You're lucky.
2:16
Brett: That's all lucky.
2:18
Brett: Wrong character.
2:20
Brett: Yeah.
2:23
Brett: But this is not a good idea.
2:25
SPEAKER_08: I'm allowed to cry.
2:25
SPEAKER_08: I'm allowed to quote Magenta.
2:27
SPEAKER_08: That's well, you know, it's a lot of give and take in this show.
2:31
Brett: Sure.
2:31
unknown: Yeah.
2:32
Brett: No, tell me about this tour though.
2:33
Brett: What does it mean to celebrate this film now that it's it's it's over 50 years old.
2:37
Brett: It's still running, still in theaters.
2:40
SPEAKER_07: Listen, the great, great thing about this film is how m loved it is, how much it's affect how it affects people, how it broadens their horizons, how they've come to accept themselves, how it's helped not only helped, it saved people's lives, it's inspires people.
3:05
SPEAKER_07: I what makes it so incredible for me is just hearing everybody's stories.
3:12
SPEAKER_07: And you know, I can meet the most um ordinary, I'll just I don't like using that word, but just say a housewife, you know, who you'd think, okay, what is it about this movie?
3:24
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I met I met some last night, and they go, I can't tell you how much it made me accept myself for who I am.
3:31
SPEAKER_07: And this and that person is not necessarily gay or trans or anything that one is more uh familiar with about how wonderfully embracing the film is of everybody, but just like a woman that for whatever reason that unlocks something in her that she felt that she could express herself.
3:54
SPEAKER_07: And I can't think of any other movie that affects people like this.
3:57
SPEAKER_07: And we're on to our at least third, if not fourth, generation now.
4:01
SPEAKER_07: And I'm just such a lucky gal that I got cast in this little gem of a originally staged show in London in 1973.
4:13
SPEAKER_07: Um, and and then a year and a half later we made the film.
4:18
SPEAKER_07: And that it's it that it's had such a profound and positive and wonderful effect on so many people globally and continues to do so.
4:28
SPEAKER_07: So I to meet the fans is such a an enormous pleasure for me because they feed me so much by the love they bring for the film and the the character I played, and I just love hearing everyone's story and meeting people.
4:46
SPEAKER_07: So it's been it's a very joyous tour for me.
4:50
SPEAKER_07: Um, I'm I'm I consider myself the lucky one.
4:54
Brett: Oh well, we're so lucky to get to see you.
4:56
Brett: I mean, I gosh, I've seen this movie more than I've seen any other movie.
5:00
Brett: I've seen it on stage more than I've seen any other stage production.
5:05
Brett: Um it's just wild when I think about even my own history with it.
5:09
Brett: And I went and saw the Sound of Music the other night and I thought, you know, is there anything even close to that where everybody knows all of these songs?
5:16
Brett: And I was like, no, it's Rocky Horror.
5:18
Brett: Absolutely.
5:18
SPEAKER_07: That's right.
5:19
SPEAKER_07: And it's funny you mentioned Sound of Music, because for me, uh I I think that's probably the mu the musical, certainly, or the movie that I've seen the most.
5:29
SPEAKER_07: Uh that I if if ever I'm if I was flicking through and never stumbled on the sound of music, I'd always what what end up watching it and just love it, loving it to bits, even though the children love it like I am 16 going on 17 should have been I am 30 going on 30.
5:46
SPEAKER_07: One.
5:47
SPEAKER_06: I mean, everyone is so much older.
5:50
SPEAKER_06: It's so funny, isn't it?
5:52
SPEAKER_07: When you watch Mary Poppins, the parents in Mary Poppins look like the great-grandparents.
5:59
SPEAKER_07: It's so funny how A was such a you know and and young teenagers are paid by people in their twenties.
6:06
SPEAKER_07: It's a very funny thing.
6:08
SPEAKER_07: But anyway, I just do adore that film too.
6:11
SPEAKER_07: Um, so I think what's great about sorry, about one of the things about the sound of music is that it's also uh hunky dory outs and you know, uh a bit of uh a bit of um Mother Superior action, etc.
6:27
SPEAKER_07: And then suddenly it goes all horribly wrong with Nazis and terror and fear.
6:31
SPEAKER_07: And that was so thrilling.
6:33
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I still get scared every time I see the Nazis trying to find them hiding behind those statues.
6:40
Brett: Oh god.
6:41
Brett: Well, speaking of AIDS, in 1973, June, the Royal Court Theater, you opened and you were like 19, I think.
6:50
SPEAKER_07: That's well, I just turned wait there, I just turned 20 on the 24th of May.
6:55
SPEAKER_07: So we had my my birthday was during rehearsal.
6:58
SPEAKER_07: So I was just, you know, half fab.
7:02
SPEAKER_10: Yes, no kidding.
7:03
SPEAKER_07: Absolutely thrilling.
7:04
SPEAKER_07: We were all very young, and uh I can't tell you that because we had a three-week rehearsal, and there was this tiny script and uh songs, not that many songs, and during that three weeks, the brilliant Jim Shaman, the director, uh would say to Richard, Well, I think we should have, you know, why don't we have uh a song for the three servants, a sort of a dance song that they do?
7:32
SPEAKER_07: And Richard would go home and come back with the time wall.
7:35
SPEAKER_07: I mean, this was going on so I'm just watching out my window, a man playing hide and seek with his perhaps at the very most three-year-old.
7:43
SPEAKER_07: He's so charming.
7:44
SPEAKER_07: And now he's go he's now go go dancing.
7:47
SPEAKER_07: I would say from Rich.
7:50
SPEAKER_07: You see a lot of that you're always seeing single fathers now at the day they get the child, but this guy's a natural father.
7:57
SPEAKER_07: He's been absolutely brilliant.
7:59
SPEAKER_07: Anyway, getting back to where we were.
8:01
SPEAKER_07: Where were we?
8:03
Brett: Oh well that was like a 73 three weeks of rehearsal, Jim Sharman.
8:09
SPEAKER_07: And I want to say that, and I do always say this with all credit to Richard O'Brien, of course, it was his baby, a rock and roll musical that he was working on called um They Came From Denton High based on Frankenstein.
8:27
SPEAKER_07: And uh that just one of the many things Jim said was like, I just don't think they came from Denton High evokes a rock and roll musical based on Frankenstein.
8:37
SPEAKER_07: And he suggested Jim suggested the title, The Rocky Horror Show.
8:42
SPEAKER_07: That was just there would be no Rocky Horror if it hadn't been for Richard O'Brien handing that little script and playing a few songs to Jim Sharman.
8:52
SPEAKER_07: Because it was those two meeting that created what we know as the Rocky Horror Show and Rocky Horror Picture Show.
8:58
SPEAKER_07: And and then on to add to that incredible um creative relationship is the all that already Jim had a fantastic relationship with the set designer Brian Thompson.
9:12
SPEAKER_07: They'd done a lot and Brian's contribution to what the show looked like made such a difference, as did the costumes that Sue Blaine put together.
9:21
SPEAKER_07: This was all on the smallest budget you can imagine, but these the creative uh relationship they all had together with is why Rocky was so fabulous as a little play that became so famous, and then that is why the film has, you know, is adored too.
9:40
SPEAKER_07: And then and add to the mix, of course, Tim Curry, who it's hard to imagine the film without.
9:48
Brett: No, but it's imp impossible not to imagine it with you.
9:51
Brett: One of the things that I think is so fun is I look at pictures of you before you were cast in the show when you were busking on the streets, and you look like your character.
10:00
Brett: I mean, it looked like they just ripped you out of that street and put you in the theater.
10:04
SPEAKER_06: Well, that's exactly right.
10:06
SPEAKER_06: You've hit it, you've done that.
10:08
SPEAKER_06: Finally, someone has read you.
10:10
SPEAKER_07: I know people say, How did you find that character and that voice?
10:13
SPEAKER_07: I went, sweetheart, you know, I just got up on that stage and did my own thing.
10:20
SPEAKER_07: It's just an extension of myself.
10:22
Brett: And that's what's so brilliant, though, is you are an actress, obviously.
10:27
Brett: I mean, I've seen you in other movies like The Killing Fields and Pink Floyd's The Wall and you know the scene of the Saturday man.
10:33
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, let's talk about this.
10:34
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I I literally am on the screen for 10 seconds in each of those movies.
10:38
SPEAKER_11: Of course.
10:38
SPEAKER_07: I I am an actress.
10:40
SPEAKER_07: I am an actress, but I I I would love to have done more.
10:44
SPEAKER_07: I think mostly I'm an entertainer, really.
10:46
SPEAKER_07: Um I could see that.
10:48
SPEAKER_07: But um, I do I didn't really focus enough on my career.
10:53
SPEAKER_07: I was always focusing on my interesting life, but I always, you know, you've you've got to really, really focus to have a successful career in anything.
11:02
SPEAKER_07: Whether it's painting, whether it's being a scientist, whether it's writing, certainly the creative arts, you've got to have a lot of self-discipline.
11:11
Brett: Yeah.
11:11
Brett: You know, I always wondered this.
11:13
Brett: So Columbia, in the show, in the script, she's just a a girl that they picked up, right?
11:20
Brett: I mean, she's not from Transylvania, is she?
11:22
Brett: She's not a no, no, no.
11:24
SPEAKER_07: She she's, I think, I think the reason people, because so many people relate to Columbia, I think it's because she was a human amongst these other beings.
11:34
SPEAKER_07: And I was, you know, I hate the term people please, but she was a good time gal, is what she was.
11:40
SPEAKER_07: And she's um, you know, she was in she was in love with Eddie, who was the delivery boy, though his delivery wasn't good enough.
11:49
SPEAKER_07: And um and also was mad about Frank, obviously.
11:56
SPEAKER_07: And Magenta and Rifraf, I don't think they liked her much.
12:04
SPEAKER_07: They they sort of indulged her to, you know, because Magenta is so uh what's uh you you know, her whole take on everything is withering.
12:15
SPEAKER_07: And um but I didn't see it.
12:18
SPEAKER_07: Oh, it's so I mean Patricia's character is so fabulous.
12:22
SPEAKER_07: And I think there should be if if if I could have made the movie again, I would have put more of Magenta and Riff Rap in it and more of Eddie.
12:33
SPEAKER_07: Because Meatloaf was just so fantastically brilliant.
12:38
SPEAKER_07: Anyway, that's my and I'd have had and I'd have had less of Brad and Janet, and I'd sell that to Barry.
12:46
SPEAKER_07: He doesn't mind, I can say it because it's never gonna happen.
12:50
SPEAKER_07: But you know, I I I don't think we we definitely needed a scene of Riffrack and Magenta.
12:57
SPEAKER_07: Get we needed I think it would have been more fun if we had known that they had something up their sleeve.
13:04
Brett: Yeah.
13:04
Brett: Well, did you like you know when this when this was going?
13:08
Brett: And and you were with the original production for how long, like seven months?
13:12
SPEAKER_07: Seven months, yeah.
13:14
Brett: Yeah.
13:14
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
13:14
Brett: Yeah.
13:15
Brett: Did you think that it would go anywhere?
13:16
Brett: I mean, did you think that the I because it's huge.
13:19
Brett: I mean, it's immortal.
13:20
SPEAKER_07: I know that when I was it, the show was a massive hit, so I knew you know, it was already but I wasn't thinking into I didn't think for a minute a f a film would be made of it.
13:33
SPEAKER_07: And then a year later they said that you know they were doing the film and they wanted me in it.
13:38
SPEAKER_07: So of course I was absolutely thrilled.
13:41
SPEAKER_07: Um but and then when we made the film, as you know, famously the film was a flop.
13:48
SPEAKER_07: And uh which was very disappointing because if you've been in a sh if you've been in a show that you had you you didn't for a minute expect it to be a giant hit because it was only been supposed to run for three weeks.
14:01
SPEAKER_07: Um and it's such a hit and it's been running as a you know to packed houses for at that point, you know, a year and a half.
14:11
SPEAKER_07: Or well it's no, by the time we the film opened, it'd been running for two years.
14:16
SPEAKER_07: Um so I I guess and it and because it was very much the same, you know, a lot of the same actors and the same directors, it was the same creative team.
14:29
SPEAKER_07: You I just suppose I thought it which was very naive of me, that it consequently the film would be a big hit.
14:36
SPEAKER_07: Or a hit anyway, but it wasn't at all, and it was only and it was pretty much Shelved very quickly.
14:43
SPEAKER_07: Got a very short release, I mean, you know, small release, and then it was Shelved, and it was this marvelous man in um who worked in the LA office of 20th Century Fox in the uh in in I in the publicity department.
15:00
SPEAKER_07: He just had a brainwave about it.
15:02
SPEAKER_07: He'd he he had a look at it, he'd never seen it, had wanted had a look at it, and thought this would be greater than midnight movie in New York at a cinema on 6th Avenue.
15:14
Brett: And then the rest is history, and then there you go.
15:17
SPEAKER_07: Isn't it amazing?
15:19
SPEAKER_07: It is crazy.
15:27
Brett: But it was like lightning though.
15:29
Brett: I mean, it's you could never recreate this.
15:31
Brett: I remember they've tried with other movies.
15:33
Brett: I've gone to other midnight movies where they're trying to make them into the next Rocky Horror.
15:37
Brett: It never worked.
15:38
SPEAKER_07: Oh, really?
15:38
Brett: Oh yeah.
15:40
SPEAKER_07: Like what like what movie?
15:41
Brett: Oh, I went and saw Showgirls and they were like trying to do audience interaction and they had drag queens dressed up and they tried to do all of these things, you know, and and I was just like, oh, this isn't gonna work because this feels forced now.
15:54
Brett: Yeah, you know.
15:55
SPEAKER_07: Oh, absolutely.
15:57
SPEAKER_07: But also no one had ever done that before.
15:59
SPEAKER_07: You know, no one had ever dressed up as the characters in a film before, which makes it so much more fun.
16:04
SPEAKER_07: It was like, what?
16:05
SPEAKER_07: We it was going on for a year before we found someone in invited us over for this first anniversary of the film, and it was like, what's going on?
16:14
SPEAKER_07: And we were I was thrilled.
16:15
SPEAKER_07: I was anyone that sent me a free ticket anywhere, I'd grab it.
16:19
SPEAKER_07: So suddenly I've been given a ticket to New York and And saw all these people dressed up in the costumes.
16:26
SPEAKER_07: We couldn't believe it.
16:27
SPEAKER_07: We of the folks that were there.
16:31
SPEAKER_10: Absolutely.
16:33
Brett: Yes, you created this whole thing.
16:35
Brett: I mean, it's amazing.
16:36
Brett: And and I think that everybody, I just feel like we all have a story that we could tell about Rocky Horror.
16:41
Brett: I mean, I think it's just so easy now.
16:43
Brett: Uh, everyone's done the time warp, everyone's done all of these things.
16:46
Brett: But one thing, given the circumstances of this past year, and I think we have to talk about Tim Curry a little bit.
16:53
Brett: What was what was he like to work with over these years?
16:58
SPEAKER_07: He was a dream of a person to work with because he was um he was funny and clever and witty and he didn't have an actor's ego at all.
17:10
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I'm sure, you know, he had a I'm sure, you know, we all want to do our best, and we all far prefer to be successful in any role that we play or work that we do.
17:21
SPEAKER_07: So, I mean, he to that degree, of course, aspired to excellence, but he just had no vanity about himself at all.
17:32
SPEAKER_07: And when every man and his dog was um wanting to interview him, have him on the TV show, and sleep with him, he sort of he would just remain he was just exactly the same person and was just thrilled that he had a role that was being so adored.
17:49
Brett: Um He seems so private to me.
17:52
SPEAKER_07: He's a very private person.
17:54
SPEAKER_07: Very private person.
17:56
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
17:57
SPEAKER_07: I think it's I think it's I mean, I thank God he had all that fame before social media and everything.
18:05
Brett: No kidding.
18:07
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that would be have been a nightmare anyway.
18:11
SPEAKER_07: Um that he he had such an interesting career playing, you know, he was in so many wonderful roles that he played and everything's so different from the the next thing.
18:21
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I've I've seen so many things on Instagram since since the darling Tim died.
18:27
SPEAKER_07: And my feeling I was supposed to be the show I'm doing tonight, uh he was going to be doing with us in Anaheim.
18:36
SPEAKER_07: But um I'm I do think that if you've been in a electric wheelchair for 14 years, I mean it's who am I to say?
18:45
SPEAKER_07: Someone might be listening that has, but it it was very tough for him.
18:49
SPEAKER_07: But he he he wore his um his ill not illness, but his affliction with great uh great ease and he just made it so comfortable to be with him.
19:03
SPEAKER_07: He's he was mentally completely the same.
19:06
SPEAKER_07: It was purely his body not responding, so to speak.
19:11
SPEAKER_07: And uh, but he was just incredibly gracious about everything.
19:16
SPEAKER_07: But um anyway, he was very, very loved.
19:19
SPEAKER_07: I'm sure that he never made an enemy in his life.
19:22
SPEAKER_07: He was just adored by everybody, very charming person.
19:27
Brett: Well, you had a a very charming group around you, so that that that helps a lot.
19:32
Brett: But let's talk a little bit about Noel Campbell, though.
19:34
Brett: How did you get your name Little Noel?
19:38
SPEAKER_07: Oh, well, my father used to write.
19:40
SPEAKER_07: My father was a journalist, and he had many columns.
19:44
SPEAKER_07: He wrote five columns a week and he reviewed books, and one of his columns was about family life.
19:50
SPEAKER_07: He was a humorous writer, and his pardon me, his nickname for me, he gave us all pseudonyms, and mine was Little Nell, which is the name of the one of the characters in The Old Curiosity shop by Charles Deakins, who has become my favorite novelist in the world, as it happens.
20:10
SPEAKER_07: But um, so and uh then when I was I no one called me Little Nell except when I was 17.
20:17
SPEAKER_07: I dated a my first boyfriend was an artist, quite a bit older than me.
20:23
SPEAKER_07: It seemed, I mean, he was like 12 years older, uh, which is when you're 17 is a lot.
20:29
SPEAKER_07: And he had me tap dance open his art exhibition, and he billed me as little Nell.
20:35
SPEAKER_07: And from that moment on everyone called me Nell.
20:39
SPEAKER_07: Turning point.
20:40
SPEAKER_07: So it just stuck.
20:42
SPEAKER_07: But um, my family actually all call me Sonny.
20:44
SPEAKER_07: My real name is Laura.
20:46
SPEAKER_07: I've never been called that.
20:48
SPEAKER_07: Um that and uh but uh everyone else calls me Nell.
20:52
SPEAKER_07: But my family and friends I've known since like before I was 16 all call me Sonny.
20:57
Brett: Yeah, it's just yeah.
21:00
Brett: You know who they how they know you by what they call you.
21:04
Brett: Yeah.
21:05
SPEAKER_07: Well, I certainly know the people I've known, you know, my family.
21:08
SPEAKER_07: I I love that my fan I always have my fan, my my partners, my friends, sorry, my sister's part, everyone that is part of my fan.
21:19
SPEAKER_07: I always like them calling me Sonny, even more even if they're new, new into the mix, you know?
21:25
Brett: Yeah, yeah.
21:26
Brett: Well, you got that little delineation there going.
21:28
Brett: But you you did a lot more than just Columbia.
21:31
Brett: I mean, it's it's wild because you get put on this monolithic thing and everybody associates you with it.
21:38
Brett: But like I said, you were a singer, you were an actress, you were a film star.
21:42
Brett: At one point, you were the queen of New York City's nightlife in the 80s.
21:46
Brett: I mean Nels.
21:48
Brett: Yeah, I mean, that was the place.
21:50
SPEAKER_07: My nightclub was absolutely fantastic.
21:52
SPEAKER_07: I can't believe I'd spent so many years without seeing daylight, but it was it was thrilling.
21:59
SPEAKER_06: At a ball.
22:00
SPEAKER_07: Had a ball, met everybody, and um mercifully I tell you what, I'm not an addict.
22:06
SPEAKER_07: Thank God, because you know, I lived my life was from um well the the club opened at ten PM and closed at four AM seven nights a week.
22:19
SPEAKER_07: But um I had a fabulous time young and frisky and uh great memories about about all that time because thank God I w I mean if you if I was interested in I I drank but very very little really and didn't take drugs at all, so that helped a lot.
22:40
SPEAKER_07: Can you imagine if you if you if you were that way inclined, that is not the role for you.
22:44
SPEAKER_07: But anyway, I had a terrific time.
22:47
Brett: Yeah.
22:48
Brett: And then you had Yeah, and then you had a daughter.
22:51
Brett: Matilda, how what is she like?
22:55
SPEAKER_07: She is very amusing, very smart, funny, um creative.
23:02
SPEAKER_07: I mean, God, I that's a word you sort of you shudder when you even say it.
23:06
SPEAKER_07: But she's very good she's a very good drawer and writer, and she's also a DJ, and she just she, you know, has all sorts of interesting jobs for various people, and she's um at the moment she's living in New York, but her b her boyfriend is in Paris, and so she she used to live in Paris anyway.
23:27
SPEAKER_07: She she's just she's a bit like me, moving all over the place.
23:31
Brett: Yeah, I I'm getting that.
23:34
Brett: Where do you live now?
23:35
Brett: You because I can't uh place you like geographically.
23:38
SPEAKER_07: I I I my I have a house in Sydney, but I've I've hardly been all year I've been in I did a I did a tour in a rocky tour of the UK.
23:49
SPEAKER_07: And then I've been lit then I was in London for all the summer, which was divine, but very, very hot.
23:56
SPEAKER_07: And uh and then I've been then I was in New York for a while where I you know, so I've got I've I've lived a third of my life in London, a third in New York, and a third in Sydney.
24:07
SPEAKER_07: So now I just rotate.
24:09
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I know.
24:10
SPEAKER_07: I wish they were a bit closer.
24:13
SPEAKER_07: Australia is just so damn far away.
24:16
Brett: It's a long flight.
24:17
Brett: I I I dread that flight.
24:20
Brett: Yeah, but the the people surviving it.
24:23
SPEAKER_07: Look, it's a drag, yes, but if you you have to completely give yourself over to it.
24:29
SPEAKER_07: When you get on a plane for that long, you just go, okay, the phone's not gonna ring, or I I can just read, sleep, watch movies, take a sleeping pill.
24:40
SPEAKER_07: If I if I don't drink it all anymore, but you know, if you want a glass of wine, you you've just gotta go with the flow.
24:47
Brett: Yeah.
24:48
Brett: Well, Rocky Horror has come back in a big way this past year because of the Broadway revival.
24:54
Brett: Now I saw I know it was on Broadway like in 1975 originally, like with the Roxy cast.
25:00
Brett: And it didn't do as well as it was.
25:03
SPEAKER_07: I know, they did it shouldn't have it was I can't remember, it wasn't the director's choice.
25:07
SPEAKER_07: I think it was the producer that wanted to go on Broadway because the whole point is it's it's not really a Broadway show, although I have seen the show on Broadway and it's and it's I had a great time at the show.
25:21
SPEAKER_07: It was a lot of fun.
25:23
Brett: Yeah, had you seen this current the current iteration of it.
25:26
SPEAKER_07: I've seen the current, yeah.
25:27
SPEAKER_07: So I had a ball and um Yes, I want to play the narrator.
25:34
Brett: You should.
25:36
SPEAKER_07: Don't you think?
25:37
Brett: It's brilliant.
25:38
Brett: I would hey, I would fly to New York to have to play the narrator.
25:43
SPEAKER_06: I saw the understanding study.
25:45
SPEAKER_07: I saw an understudy, um, a man of uh I I don't know he was uh the exotic um an exotic uh anyway, the lights came up on him and I nearly fell off my chair.
26:01
SPEAKER_07: He just looked so fantastic.
26:03
SPEAKER_07: And he was marvelous in the role.
26:06
SPEAKER_07: Uh it wasn't someone called Rachel is playing the role, but she wasn't on, and I now I know that um oh what's an in the role now.
26:15
Brett: Well, I know Oh, you know what?
26:17
Brett: John Yee serves as the understudy for the narrator.
26:21
Brett: Uh it's usually Rachel Dratz.
26:23
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, she was out.
26:26
SPEAKER_07: That John Yee was hilarious, he was absolutely brilliant.
26:30
SPEAKER_07: And um, and now they've got the talk show host, Rosie O'Donnell.
26:34
SPEAKER_07: Rosie O'Donnell, yes.
26:36
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, she's doing it.
26:37
SPEAKER_07: So I think you're someone that's screaming out for the role.
26:42
SPEAKER_07: I mean, it's quite obvious I should be playing that role.
26:45
Brett: Well, you were the Queen of New York for a while, it would make so much sense.
26:49
Brett: I mean, come on, return, descend Nels, you know, and she's hosting the Roggy Horror.
26:57
Brett: I mean, it would just make sense.
26:58
SPEAKER_06: Come on, what to wear, what to wear, what to wear.
27:04
Brett: I think they can come up with something for you.
27:07
Brett: I'm sure.
27:08
SPEAKER_08: If they can, I can.
27:10
Brett: Yes, of course.
27:12
Brett: But yeah, no, it's so it's so fun though to see people like, do you do you have advice for people that are stepping into the role of Columbia?
27:21
Brett: I mean, like, what would you say to like poor like Joan Jan Valentina?
27:26
SPEAKER_07: I would just say I just say, you know, when I I love the way when I meet the fans and they're dressing up.
27:32
SPEAKER_07: I I love well, it this is for the all the c uh characters in Rocky Horror.
27:37
SPEAKER_07: I love that people bring their own thing to it.
27:39
SPEAKER_07: And they don't all you know, they make uh chancks and change and it it does also I totally think it's incredible the way some people completely um recreate my costume and they've handmade it.
27:52
SPEAKER_07: That's amazing.
27:54
SPEAKER_07: But um no, I just think make it your own, you know?
27:59
SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
28:00
SPEAKER_07: It's not about tr being like me, it's about making it your own.
28:04
Brett: Well, I remember I saw it in 2000, 2001 when Joan Jett played Columbia.
28:11
SPEAKER_10: Oh, how was that?
28:13
Brett: I thought the smartest thing they did they did not make her tap dance because you do not want to see Joan Jett try to tap dance.
28:19
Brett: It's just not her thing, right?
28:21
Brett: So she did a guitar solo instead.
28:24
SPEAKER_10: Okay.
28:26
Brett: It was amazing.
28:27
Brett: Yes, and I was like, yes, this is what you need to do.
28:30
Brett: Yeah.
28:31
Brett: And of course, you know, Joan Jett, I mean, come on.
28:33
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, no, that was very clever.
28:36
Brett: It was.
28:37
Brett: I thought that that if I had to give a second place.
28:42
Brett: Because I'm obviously you're Columbia, you've been Columbia, I I you're ingrained, you live in my head.
28:48
SPEAKER_07: No, that it's it's always great to other people doing it as well.
28:52
SPEAKER_07: I think uh you know, it doesn't I think it's great other people are playing the roles and getting a lot out of it, and it doesn't have to be people that are uh you know trying to to form it like us.
29:02
SPEAKER_07: I think it's there's a lot of room for everyone now.
29:05
Brett: Well and what a shame that in 1973 you all came out and did this piece that Richard had come up with.
29:16
Brett: And even this much time later, we're still fighting to make people feel liberated or to make people feel like they can be who they want to be.
29:27
Brett: Even after all of this is out there.
29:29
Brett: I mean that's what it just is.
29:30
Brett: I couldn't agree more.
29:33
SPEAKER_07: It is shocking that in all this time people still feel like, you know, it's it still takes a lot for us uh uh a great deal of people to come out to their parents and their family, to their friends.
29:49
SPEAKER_07: I mean, it's just uh considering I'm I'm surprised that I hadn't realized earlier that it's genetic as well as anything else.
29:59
SPEAKER_07: Um there and there is I imagine caring what somebody else's sexual preference is.
30:07
SPEAKER_07: I don't understand why why would you ever judge somebody like when you go to buy the milk, whether that person prefers sexually men, women, trans, whatever it is, you know?
30:17
SPEAKER_07: Why do you care?
30:18
SPEAKER_07: It's all about you know, you fancy what you you fancy.
30:21
SPEAKER_07: And also it's not a choice.
30:23
SPEAKER_07: That's what people don't realize.
30:25
SPEAKER_07: You know, do you think that if someone had the option they would choose to be trans?
30:31
SPEAKER_07: That's such a a challenging journey.
30:33
SPEAKER_07: You've got to embrace them and help them along their way.
30:37
SPEAKER_07: If that's how they feel.
30:39
SPEAKER_07: And also, tolerance.
30:41
SPEAKER_07: The world is just everyone's less and less tolerant.
30:44
SPEAKER_07: But uh and America is a very conservative country, and as long as these ridiculous cult religions, and I consider all religions cult, all of them are cults.
30:57
SPEAKER_07: And um Buddhism is got is the least cultish.
31:01
SPEAKER_07: But um and Rocky Horror is the only good cult in the world, let's be frank.
31:07
SPEAKER_07: But um but all these religions, I mean I I I went to I I I bought a ticket from somebody in a art museum two t two days ago and she was in full perda.
31:20
SPEAKER_07: I mean, she had the m you know, like the letterbox for me to see her eyes.
31:25
SPEAKER_07: And she was a young person and I I could tell and I just I it just broke my heart that she felt that she had to d to put all that drag on because, you know, she'd either married a man that wanted her to or b been brought up in a um in a family that that's what they told her she had to do.
31:44
SPEAKER_07: And there was even a bit it wasn't even the full letter box, it was a slit for where it was just for the eyes, the slits.
31:54
SPEAKER_07: Anyway, I s I sang at the time wall, but it didn't make any difference.
31:59
Brett: Of course.
32:12
Brett: Well, we are gonna we are gonna see you in Houston October 23rd.
32:15
Brett: It's you're gonna be in the House of Blues, which is a very it's an intimate space.
32:18
Brett: You can really feel the energy of the crowd.
32:20
SPEAKER_07: Oh, I love that.
32:21
SPEAKER_07: Glad for that.
32:22
SPEAKER_07: And I'm I'm all for intimate.
32:25
Brett: Yes.
32:25
SPEAKER_07: So I well I can't I I'm looking forward to it very much.
32:29
SPEAKER_07: And um I'm you know, I just love meeting you.
32:32
SPEAKER_07: So if you come to the meet and greet, do tell me your story of and you know what Rock is meant to you because I I never I'm never not curious hearing about, you know, how how couples met.
32:44
SPEAKER_07: You know, I meet people that are third generation and anyway, on a on a yeah, it's just wonderful.
32:50
SPEAKER_07: Like their their mothers taught exposed them, exposed them to this deliciousness of Rocky Horror, and then they have got their kids into Rocky Horror.
33:00
SPEAKER_07: It's like just a wonderful um what is it, carry-on effect.
33:05
Brett: Yeah, it's a legacy, it's gonna pass down.
33:07
Brett: I think my my crazy aunt bought me the album uh when I was a young kid, kind of.
33:15
Brett: And I had the I had the album and I had never seen the movie.
33:20
Brett: I just knew the album.
33:21
Brett: And then I went to the movie when I was of a certain age, and I just was blown away.
33:28
Brett: I was like, what this is a world that I've been.
33:31
SPEAKER_07: That was great.
33:32
SPEAKER_07: And also anyone listening that's got tiny top children, for heaven's sake, start what having them watch it when from the age of about one.
33:41
SPEAKER_07: And then you know, what what they don't understand just goes over their head and the rest they just absolutely adore.
33:47
SPEAKER_07: They love the costumes and the colours and the songs.
33:52
SPEAKER_07: There's so much for children to enjoy.
33:54
SPEAKER_07: I don't understand why people feel that you know kids have to be, you know, 13 or something to watch it.
33:59
SPEAKER_07: Because I think it's I think it's great because it makes them curious and broadens their horizons so early on.
34:07
Brett: Well, it is there's nothing in the film that is very explicit.
34:11
SPEAKER_07: Um if there was anything explicit, it wouldn't be the success it is.
34:20
Brett: Yeah.
34:21
Brett: No.
34:21
Brett: So bring the whole family.
34:22
Brett: Yeah.
34:23
Brett: Yeah.
34:26
SPEAKER_07: A little innuendo never hurt anybody.
34:29
Brett: No, no, not at all.
34:31
Brett: Well, one of the things that's so funny though is you did make a sequel to this, or Richard did, uh, Shock Tree.
34:37
SPEAKER_07: I know, but I d uh I don't think of it as a sequel, I have to say.
34:41
Brett: It's a totally different story.
34:44
SPEAKER_07: You know, and also where's Tim?
34:46
SPEAKER_07: Anything that hasn't got Tim in it cannot be a sequel.
34:50
unknown: Yeah.
34:50
SPEAKER_07: To me.
34:51
SPEAKER_07: You know, he was he he they they asked him to be in it, but sadly he wouldn't.
34:58
Brett: Well I felt like that that Burt Schnick roll that uh Dame Edna played.
35:02
unknown: Uh-huh.
35:03
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
35:03
Brett: Barry Humphreys or what affair.
35:05
Brett: I thought that that kind of felt like a Tim character to me, but um But I was so excited.
35:10
SPEAKER_07: He wouldn't have been doing that.
35:12
SPEAKER_07: I mean, Barry is one of the great comic geniuses, an absolute idol of mine, a marvelous man.
35:21
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
35:22
SPEAKER_07: No, he was a look and that's so different.
35:27
SPEAKER_08: Fabulous.
35:28
Brett: It was amazing.
35:29
Brett: Those when you're on those bars with that big old ponytail whipping around.
35:33
SPEAKER_10: I was like, yes.
35:37
SPEAKER_10: Who knew Columbia would do it?
35:40
SPEAKER_10: Thank you, Days.
35:42
SPEAKER_07: My my ponytail era.
35:44
SPEAKER_07: I miss it.
35:45
SPEAKER_07: I really do.
35:47
Brett: Well, we will not miss you.
35:49
Brett: Uh because we're gonna be there on October 23rd.
35:52
SPEAKER_07: I'll look forward to meeting anyone that can come and thank you so much for having me on your show.
35:57
SPEAKER_07: And go.
36:00
Brett: Absolutely.
36:01
Brett: Thank you.
36:02
SPEAKER_06: Thank you, darling.
36:04
SPEAKER_06: Bye.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: It's astounding.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: Time is fleeting.
36:16
SPEAKER_02: Madness takes its toll.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: But listen closely.
36:24
SPEAKER_05: Not for very much longer.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: I've got two.
39:32
SPEAKER_09: I'm just gonna go ahead and dive into this introduction.
39:35
SPEAKER_09: My guest has worked in sales, produced more than a thousand events, studied gut health, guided people through psychedelic integration, co-hosted something called What the Fungus, and somehow became the subject of an academic paper just by changing their Instagram identity.
39:49
SPEAKER_09: After all of that, she has taken on perhaps her most ambitious challenge convincing queer people that we can go out on a to the bar, dance for six hours, make questionable decisions, and still wake up without a hangover.
40:01
SPEAKER_09: Avatal, thank you for uh talking with us at Queer Voices.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Hey Matthew, thank you for having me.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: Super excited to be here.
40:08
SPEAKER_09: Yes, yes, glad to have you.
40:10
SPEAKER_09: The main reason I came across you is because I came across Zero Proof Crawls, the uh event that you created, aimed towards the queer community uh that deals with uh giving people some uh fun out and going out without alcohol.
40:23
SPEAKER_09: For anybody who just needs a break or you're sober or anything and everything in between.
40:28
SPEAKER_09: And so I thought that would just be a great this sounds very, very interesting.
40:32
SPEAKER_09: It's not something I've seen come across, or I've come across in Houston before.
40:35
SPEAKER_09: So I was like, well, I gotta try to do my best to have you on here to talk about this, uh talk about everything that you're doing.
40:41
SPEAKER_09: So I started my first question.
40:42
SPEAKER_09: You worked in sales, wellness, event production, psychedelic integration.
40:47
SPEAKER_09: What brought all of those parts of your life together to lead you to create Zero Proof Crawls?
40:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I think it always starts with our own personal journey, right?
40:56
SPEAKER_01: So I was working in corporate America doing sales marketing for about 15 years and um drinking very heavily from like the age of 15.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until 2020 that that I decided to get sober.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: I quit my job and decided to go deep into my own personal healing journey and go back to school to study holistic health.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, I saw how how healing things, things were were going for me, and I wanted to help more people, and I was like, wow, I could actually create a career out of all of this.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: And so I went to school, started my own practice, and was able to help hundreds of people all over the world with their health.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: Um and when I moved back to Houston, I was living in New York at that time, and I moved back to Houston about four years ago.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: And that's when I started throwing events because I was craving community and I wanted to bring people together and create safe spaces where people can go out, enjoy, and not feel like they have to get up and enjoy non-alcoholic and plant medicine options and just gather and connect with like-minded people.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: One thing led to another.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: I started working with a company called Pup Crawls, and I'm still with them and I throw alcoholic bar crawls with them.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: And so I learned all the things and saw that there's a actually a decline in alcohol consumption over the past couple of years.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, people are just being more conscious and aware of what they're putting into their bodies and not drinking at all or or much less than they were in previous years.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: I decided to create this experience of, you know, let's be able to go out, have fun, and not feel like you have to get up.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: So created the first sober bar crawl called Zero Proof Crawls.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh, January was the first one in Houston, and then I launched it in into three cities for pride.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: So that was for Houston, Austin, Dallas, and it was very successful.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: Everyone had such a great time.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: And we got to celebrate one of the most wonderful times of the year, pride.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: So, and now I'm doing round two of sober and proud uh over the next couple months.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: So super excited about that.
43:10
SPEAKER_09: And so is that how it's gonna how you're gonna um roll it out in that manner, or will it be more, you think it'll be a monthly or weekly or something like that eventually, or where do you would like to take it uh schedule wise?
43:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh the plan is to take this nationwide and throw this for the major holidays.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: So Halloween is coming up, so it's gonna be sober October, Halloween Bar Crawl.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: And I'm planning to launch that in 25 cities.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh so super excited about that.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: And then after that will be dry January and then a 420 bar crawl, and then pride again.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: So uh the plan is four times a year.
43:48
SPEAKER_09: Okay.
43:48
SPEAKER_09: And it's interesting you get in this background, and is is it I I was just having this conversation with a friend the other day about uh you hear this often and it might sound almost tired at this point, but it's just so true how necessity is the mother of.
44:00
SPEAKER_09: Invention and how much you know it we're we're talking hearing you talk about where these roots came from to start something like this of needing a space and going through what you're going through and then also just how and that's that's those kind of situations I trust the most uh when it's people that are like I I just kind of needed this I kind of needed something or uh you know that I have a aunt who uh is a uh foster parent for special needs kids and that was never something she would ever thought she would go into but then her daughters was born her daughter was born special needs and then she found out everything was in it and then it just slowed snowballed into that and you hear so many stories I come across so many stories especially doing interviews like this where it's like oh yeah I just I I needed this I needed something and then bing bang boom it snowballed into like oh this is a whole thing or even for a lot of people oh this is a whole career this is a whole this whole career this is okay and I I I think for me too with the hope thing one of the reasons why I always like to ask that what gives you hope today is because I've had my issues with uh depression and anxiety and even suicide attempts and everything and it was now when I'm talking as much as I'm a politics nerd as I am when I'm talking to people and they're like you know how are you so cheerful or you know optimistic it was like well I come f I I either I my life it was either give up or die.
45:18
SPEAKER_09: You know that was like so that kind of seeps into everything like well but then you just don't give up.
45:22
SPEAKER_09: Then you just don't give up.
45:23
SPEAKER_09: Next thing you know when you work on it then you find out stuff like this that can lead you to a a better path.
45:29
SPEAKER_09: Your events they welcome people who are sober, sober curious Callie sober, simply taking a night off why was it important to make that space broad and welcome everybody instead of just sobriety I want to make things inclusive and I want people to feel feel without pressure you know like not everyone is going to be sober but maybe they're a little curious.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: They're wanting to get sober.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: I know sober is can be really hard to to get to so this is just one step towards that direction and you know maybe they're not completely sober but they don't want to drink as much or their Cali sober, right?
46:06
SPEAKER_01: So it's really just about creating that community of like minded people like I know whenever I go out which is again the reason for creating this event is I still want to be able to go out have fun and enjoy alternatives to alcohol.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: And what I love seeing now is there's more and more brands coming out with non-alcoholic options or THC drinks.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: So you know the bar um isn't just about going out and drinking these events are really about redefining what nightlife looks like like why can't we still go out to the bars and clubs and dance and have a good time and not feel the pressure to drink.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: And when you're in community, when you're surrounded by other people that are on the same path it just makes it easier right especially if you're maybe new in sobriety and you know going to the bars doesn't feel too safe which I you know it's it's whatever feels good to to that individual but being with other people that are also sober and not drinking can just help make the experience feel feel much better and feel safer.
47:10
SPEAKER_09: You know this is a sad question.
47:11
SPEAKER_09: Does Cali Sober also include psychedelics that term or is it another term for that?
47:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah so Cali Sober is going to be more like 420 yeah focused um but I guess it it could include that in in legal states right like in Texas it's not legal but they there could be functional mushrooms right might not have the psychedelic experience but um and I would call that more functional beverages.
47:38
SPEAKER_09: Okay.
47:38
SPEAKER_09: Okay just wondered just wondered because I was like you know I I don't I'm not sober uh it I do is still drink a bit but uh I got it in the triathlons and marathons and there's just I sometimes I just can't the alcohol will just have me cramping up when I'm training so I can't drink as much as I want to.
47:54
SPEAKER_09: But I was like what is my name?
47:56
SPEAKER_09: What is the name for what I'm looking for?
47:57
SPEAKER_09: I was like I don't I I was wondering like I don't think we have it.
47:59
SPEAKER_09: I think I need to come up with it.
48:01
SPEAKER_09: I was thinking Portland sober or something like that.
48:03
SPEAKER_09: Yeah something something like that.
48:06
SPEAKER_09: So anyways that was just that was just a side question I was wondering like how we don't my people don't have a name.
48:11
SPEAKER_09: My people don't have a name we need to come up with a name.
48:14
SPEAKER_09: So as far as the zero proof crawl if you were talking to somebody how would you describe what the feeling is like what it's going to be like for them.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: Well a zero proof crawl is going to be an alcohol free bar crawl where you can go out and experience mocktail friendly bars and connect with like minded people and really just feel safe and free to enjoy yourself.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: It's really again just about redefining what nightlife means and um being able to enjoy a night out without the hangover.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: And producing uh more than a thousand events how has this taught what has this taught you about helping people feel safe and included yeah so after throwing over a thousand events um it's really about connecting like minded people and you know when we go back to talking about inclusivity not making feel people feel left out right like I think the alcohol sc scene is going to make you feel left out like if you're the one person that's out with all the alcohol drinkers, you're gonna feel left out right so when creating these these events and spaces um really just being more inclusive about who who's involved.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: But five years from now where would you like for this uh for um Zero Proof Crawls to be in uh not just in Houston but in the greater LGBTQ community see this event in every major city and really creating a movement where again just people can be able to go out have fun feel included be around like minded people make new friends and yeah not feel like they have to get up.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: So um this is a movement for sure and you know I've got I've got big dreams for it and yeah excited to see how things unfold.
50:02
SPEAKER_09: I can definitely see that happening I can definitely say and not only I hope it I hope it does happen or as my parents will say we'll speak it in the truth I do see it happening.
50:12
SPEAKER_09: It's um it reminds me of my very very first interview it was a a guy that I found doing a meetup group for gay professionals and I just want to do my first I finally get in there before that it was before COVID where we had to meet in the actual radio station and it was a lot of paperwork you would have to do and this that and the other and now that we meet over Zoom it's we don't have to do so much of that.
50:32
SPEAKER_09: But I was more helping out with beside the scenes I found to finally get my first interview in it was an organization called Lambda Next Gen and that thing it was just meeting up gay professionals meeting up hanging out and it grew into something so bigger because it was just needed.
50:47
SPEAKER_09: It was needed and it wasn't around and so I can see this getting big big big I can see it just big getting big and growing because I haven't really come across it haven't seen much like this it's definitely needed.
50:58
SPEAKER_09: I know some friends that are fully sober some friends that are maybe they got a little bit more time to to get there I won't name any names but it's I could definitely you know see how big how important and needed something like this is especially in the queer community especially with so much of our um you know this is getting more into the mental health side of things.
51:17
SPEAKER_09: You know we go through some things in the queer community and sometimes when we find our spaces and our our churches and everything it's uh uh it comes with some other stuff that are more about escape than escaping the problems that you're dealing with instead of uh actually just having fun and or dealing with it and so you know these these things are important because of that.
51:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah absolutely and um you know I know a lot of people's stories are very similar like mine you know speaking of mental health where alcohol was just a way to to numb and um not feel the feelings right and just avoiding dealing with the sh so you know being able to create these safe spaces for people to connect and have fun like that is healing in itself right like we don't need alcohol to have fun.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: We can um go out, dance, party, connect with like minded people and have a blast and that's very liberating, you know, and it goes hand in hand.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: I I did another interview very similar where we're talking about like the similar the similarities to the struggles of being queer and being sober.
52:25
SPEAKER_01: And there's like this is like the intersection of it right like there's a lot of similarities in the struggles as far as um one accepting yourself as you are and honoring all the parts of yourself and um liberating yourself from feeling like you have to not not show up in your fullest expression.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: And alcohol is one of the biggest ways that people dim down their lights.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: So you know being able to again have that as the intersection is a a very beautiful thing.
52:58
SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
52:59
SPEAKER_09: Yeah I think there are a lot of people who need to uh need to realize you don't you know you don't need it to have fun I guess is the gist of what I'm saying.
53:06
SPEAKER_09: Uh it can be fine.
53:07
SPEAKER_09: It can be great.
53:08
SPEAKER_09: I know some great mixologists that do some amazing things.
53:11
SPEAKER_09: But uh you also you can I think some people for whatever reason uh they develop a habit that just like well this is how we have fun.
53:19
SPEAKER_09: This is how I have fun or how I can let down.
53:21
SPEAKER_09: And then if you can have something like this, they'd be like, oh wait, I did have fun in a very similar atmosphere and didn't and then consume alcohol and I was you know letting myself be myself then you know that I feel like that can work uh even uh subconsciously, you know, to get in those rooms to be like, see, see see what you can have fun like this without doing that.
53:40
SPEAKER_09: And especially getting out of hand.
53:42
SPEAKER_09: So all right we have our last question.
53:44
SPEAKER_09: Uh my big thing that I like to ask everybody is uh what gives you what is giving you hope today?
53:50
SPEAKER_01: I think what gives me hope is just seeing more people become conscious and aware of what they're putting into their body right there's just more information more knowledge more education around um just the negative aspects of alcohol and you know I I think there's there's a healthy balance right some people can enjoy one or two drinks and be okay some people can't um but you know over the long term heavy consumption of alcohol is going to negatively impact your your physical your mental and your spiritual and so I just love seeing the shift and just more awareness and more consciousness of that.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: And that really gives me hope because you know it's not just alcohol it's all the other things that they're doing to poison us and whatnot.
54:38
SPEAKER_01: But that's a that's an another story another interview and so I love seeing that um people are just taking care of themselves more and loving themselves more and doing the the deep work to heal um and not just consume and suppress and avoid dealing with their sh yeah that that reminds me of a there's a great documentary or I I haven't seen it yet but I heard good things.
55:01
SPEAKER_09: It's called a gas lit in Jane Fonda about the gas and oil industry.
55:06
SPEAKER_09: And looking at that trailer that looks exactly like where I grew up.
55:10
SPEAKER_09: And uh and as sad as it might seem there are also people who I kind of grew up thinking they just accepted this life and then to see them speak out and talk about it and be in this documentary openly is stuff like you know similar similar to people just being aware of things.
55:26
SPEAKER_09: Like just just sometimes just be aware.
55:28
SPEAKER_09: Yeah so I've been growing up in Beaumont refineries you know right next to you is you know is just life.
55:34
SPEAKER_09: That's just you but then to find out okay so y'all are concerned like we are we are concerned right this is a thing that we are worried about we speak enough about it.
55:42
SPEAKER_09: So that kind of stuff gives me hope too in a sim in a similar way.
55:45
SPEAKER_09: Just when people are just working to be aware you know just don't give and my whole thing is just don't give up.
55:50
SPEAKER_09: Like we I've said it every time now pretty much we uh for every interview I've done I knowing the history uh knowing black history knowing queer history knowing just human history we have survived much worse than what we're living in right now even as bad as it seems we have survived things and I also don't want to embarrass my ancestors by giving up just because it's okay the times is hard.
56:12
SPEAKER_09: So okay well sure you know I come from I come from slaves.
56:15
SPEAKER_09: It's like so uh you know I can't find myself giving up like that's I don't want to compare traumas or anything but it's just like I know where I come from I know what can be done and I know the creative ways people have survived.
56:27
SPEAKER_09: I don't even know all but I'm just there's some amazing stories and even today the creative ways people are doing things to survive and get people just to get people out and vote or things going on that you're looking at a country like Hungary who got rid of that dictator president who I I I follow international public.
56:44
SPEAKER_09: I thought that man wasn't gonna leave I just like oh well he's just not gonna leave that's what dictators do and they just the country just said no you gotta go and he left and it's just like okay look things are happening man they we're doing things.
56:55
SPEAKER_09: And so anyways I don't want I'll go forever on that.
56:58
SPEAKER_09: But uh Avatar thank you very much for speaking with us at Queer Voices.
57:03
SPEAKER_09: Thank you for what you're doing and this is amazing.
57:06
SPEAKER_04: I know that it's a very uh very needed thing out there especially in the queer community so uh thank you for talking with us again uh you have a nice rest of your day my name is Matthew Williams and this is Queer Voices This has been Queer Voices heard on KPFT Houston and as a podcast available from several podcasting sources check our webpage queervoices.org for more information some of the material in this program has been edited to improve clarity and runtime this program does not endorse any political views or animal species views opinions and endorsements are those of the participants and the organizations they represent in case of death please discontinue use and discard remaining products for queer voices I'm glad to hopefully