Latest / Gospel Talks Podcast / #104 - Why Visitors Feel Invisible At Church | Friendly Is Not Necessarily Welcoming

Transcript

#104 - Why Visitors Feel Invisible At Church | Friendly Is Not Necessarily Welcoming · Gospel Talks Podcast

0:00
I want you to imagine visiting a church for the first time.
0:04
People smile, shake your hand,
0:06
tell you, we're glad you're here.
0:08
The service is excellent. The preaching is biblical.
0:13
But you leave without having a single meaningful conversation.
0:18
You never get past the weather.
0:21
You're welcomed, but nobody got to know you.
0:27
This episode, we're going to talk about what.
0:29
Is the problem with that, and how do we fix it as believers,
0:35
part of churches? How do we change that whole experience for a visitor?
0:42
Because this is so important. Jeff said,
0:45
and I think he termed this well,
0:47
it's an emergency if that happens.
0:50
It's an emergency.
0:54
This welcome to Gospel Talks Podcast,
0:57
where we help Christians all over the world become more effective.
1:00
in relational evangelism and discipleship.
1:02
I'm George Binocca. With me today is Jeff Musgrave,
1:05
the author and founder of the Exchange.
1:08
And we are excited to be with you.
1:09
Jeff, you look great. You have a new setup there in your office.
1:14
How you doing?
1:15
I kinda like my new step up. Thank you so much.
1:18
Yeah, yeah. looks awesome. we're glad to always be trying to improve the podcast
1:23
for you guys. For those of you that don't watch us up,
1:26
watch us on YouTube. I do have a face for radio myself,
1:30
but Jeff has a face for YouTube.
1:32
And so I think you guys would enjoy watching his feed on YouTube.
1:37
And I would encourage you to go on there at Exchange Message or at Exchange
1:41
Ministries. You could look up those channels.
1:44
And find us, follow us, and we've got it all there.
1:47
Well, let's just jump right in.
1:51
let me just ask ya a question,
1:54
Jeff. The church I was describing in the intro,
1:58
would you consider that a welcoming church?
2:02
Yeah, yeah, I I'm just thinking in terms of you can welcome someone
2:09
in terms of hi, how are you? but you know,
2:12
those are we've we say this in our seminars,
2:14
those words are literally meaningless unless they're followed up by genuine
2:19
care. And so when when we ask the question,
2:23
How are you? and someone answers,
2:25
I'm fine, we really haven't said anything at all.
2:29
It's not only not welcoming, I think it's worse than that.
2:33
I think it's off putting. it
2:35
it I actually think, and I don't know,
2:38
maybe I'm a little different, but I think if I lived in an area and and went
2:43
to visit a church that treated me like that,
2:46
I I doubt that person that church would get a second visit from me.
2:51
I I mean I'm just thinking
2:51
Mm.
2:52
that's not the church for me.
2:56
And you know, you George, you you've done this before.
2:58
You get greeted at Walmart by someone who says,
3:02
Welcome in. And and you know, they don't even look at you.
3:05
They just say in the words they're paid to say.
3:07
And
3:08
Yeah.
3:08
feel very welcome when when I'm greeted that way.
3:12
they're they're saying what they're supposed to say,
3:15
but it's not welcoming. Anna and I are in new churches literally every week,
3:21
and this is
3:23
Again, not nice, but usually I we can tell in about five minutes of walking into that
3:30
church lobby if this is a welcoming church or not.
3:35
Yeah, I I love the word you used,
3:37
care. simply checking the box that you greeted the visitor is not the same
3:44
as caring for the visitor. I think that's a better qualitative goal.
3:50
If people feel like they're a number,
3:53
if people feel like you're going through emotion,
3:55
i it they're not gonna feel care at the other end of that transaction.
4:01
you know, do you really want to know me is a question.
4:05
In every visitor's mind, am I gonna matter here in this church?
4:07
Yeah, and and I think
4:08
that most it it well it depends.
4:11
I mean, whoever's coming in the door,
4:12
they're all they're either a believer looking for a very specific kind
4:16
of church, or often they're an unbeliever or a a a non churchgoer,
4:23
and they're coming in with a sense of
4:25
if you really did know me, you wouldn't like me.
4:28
I mean, that's
4:28
Yeah.
4:29
just the thought that's coming in with their mind and I don't know if I really
4:32
belong here. And, you know, our job is to embrace them and to let them know
4:37
you belong here. This is a place for you.
4:40
Hmm. Yeah, I love that. I guess a question that boggles my mind sometimes is,
4:46
maybe we can play around with this question a little bit.
4:47
Why do you think it's possible for somebody to visit a church full
4:51
of friendly people? Because it there's many people there's many churches that
4:55
consider themselves very friendly,
4:57
but they're bleeding visitors all the time.
4:59
They're they're ri they're able to they're not able to retain very well the people
5:04
that walk through the door.
5:05
Why do you think that people can go to a friendly church and they are genuinely
5:09
friendly, but still feel invisible and then walk away and never come back?
5:14
Yeah, yeah. And and by the way,
5:16
I'm afraid that happens way more often than it should.
5:19
I I don't know if you remember Proverbs eighteen twenty-four.
5:24
in the Key J King James it says a man who would have friends must show himself
5:29
friendly. In the ESV it says it a little differently.
5:33
It's hitting at the same thing.
5:35
A man with many companions may come to ruin.
5:39
And I think
5:40
The the point is that a superficial friendship is really
5:47
not a friendship. you you know,
5:49
we kind of say, was this a friendly church,
5:52
a not friendly church? Well, I greeted people.
5:54
friendly is when we make friends,
5:56
you know, when when we connect relationally.
5:57
Mm, mm. Mm-hmm.
5:59
And
6:00
I I think that those superficial relationships of
6:05
are are actually damaging and they they do ruin.
6:09
It's interesting that the rest of that verse says,
6:12
but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.
6:16
And
6:16
Mm.
6:17
boy, that's that's clearly speaking of Jesus.
6:22
And I don't know about you, but I I want to love like Jesus loves.
6:25
I I want to pursue meaningful connections with the people that I talk to at church.
6:31
Hmm. Yeah, I I I think that's exactly right.
6:34
It's we've said this time and time again here.
6:37
It's the thing that people are craving.
6:40
it's what they want in a church connecting with people.
6:45
you know, one of the realities that I think we could face as a question,
6:51
if we're done with that question,
6:52
anything else you wanna do on that question before I ask you another one?
6:55
I
6:55
I think George, one of the things that happens is we tend to go to church
7:01
and talk to the people we already know and we go home fulfilled because we talk
7:06
to our friends and the assumption is somebody else is gonna connect with that
7:11
visitor. And
7:12
Mm.
7:13
I I feel like it's important for us to recognize
7:18
That that's my responsibility.
7:20
When I see this is the way we say it in our church,
7:23
when I see a a guest alone, that's an emergency.
7:27
And that's that's a if I see it,
7:30
it's a call to me to get involved.
7:32
Mm.
7:33
And
7:33
you know, there there's this axiom that we all talk about.
7:37
if if you want to go to church and kind of remain anonymous,
7:40
then then go to a large church where you can slip in and slip out and no one sees
7:45
you. Well, I
7:46
Mm.
7:46
I I actually think it's an overstatement.
7:48
It's not really about size, but it is about creating a culture that
7:55
is going to relentlessly pursue the people that walk in our doors with love.
8:01
We we want to pursue I I have a friend named Mark Halleck.
8:05
And he says about his church: if you come to Calvary,
8:10
you will be loved. And I think that we need to have that attitude about
8:16
it in our church and then start building
8:17
Mm-hmm.
8:18
the culture that says we're not ever going to just let someone come in without really
8:24
genuinely loving them.
8:27
Hmm. Yeah, I I love that. we we stole something from you and Anna
8:32
in in our church. We we tell guests from the pulpit,
8:36
I tell them, love to meet you afterward and hear your story.
8:40
Yeah, I love that.
8:40
I think that's
8:41
a very powerful tool. I also think if you do a greeting time in your church,
8:46
I don't know if your church does a greeting time,
8:49
but if you do a greeting time,
8:51
telling your church
8:53
congregation during the greeting time you have one job.
8:56
Find the person nobody else is talking to and,
8:59
you know, get to know them. Show them the love of Christ.
9:02
Yeah.
9:03
Well j George, I'll just I I'll just give you a little Anna and I have been in lots
9:07
of churches and we actually do not like greeting times.
9:10
And and the reason
9:11
Mm.
9:11
is because I've sat on the front pew,
9:14
I mean because I'm the speaker,
9:15
I'm gonna be there. And and literally the church can go on for five minutes hugging
9:20
and slapping each other in the back,
9:22
you know. I and and and I'm standing there not talking to a single person.
9:28
Hmm.
9:28
And so you
9:28
if you're gonna have a greeting time.
9:30
then it is imperative that that it that person alone has somebody running there.
9:37
Hm. Yep. I I agree with you.
9:40
They they are a double edged sword.
9:42
you you either do them well or you don't do them well.
9:45
There's not a lot of middle middle ground on a greeting time.
9:46
Well, and I'm not saying
9:47
that you shouldn't do them. I'm just saying that we didn't like them because
9:50
of what actually happened to us.
9:52
Sure, sure. Yeah, and I s I have seen that in churches.
9:57
The visitor standing awkwardly alone,
9:59
everybody else is greeting each other,
10:01
and you're just like, no. so but let me ask a question here.
10:07
Could a church be doing a great job running its Sunday service while doing
10:12
a terrible job connecting with people who attend?
10:16
And why do churches who do a great job can show us that they can do a great job?
10:21
with their Sunday service do a terrible job sometimes with connecting with people.
10:26
Yeah, I think it's interesting,
10:27
George. my observation, and again,
10:30
this is just my observation, 300 and some churches that we've been in the last
10:35
sixteen years. but have having said that,
10:38
usually the people who are thoughtful about organizing their
10:45
service to where it is meaningful and impacting are also thoughtful in terms
10:52
of greeting guests.
10:54
I mean, I I don't know that it is always that way,
10:56
but that's just been our experience.
11:01
but I think that the point that you're making,
11:04
and I think it's important for all of us to remember,
11:07
is that you know, giving people a great experience in the service in terms
11:12
of the what happens from the pulpit,
11:15
it it's primary. I mean, that's that's the main thing people go to church for.
11:19
But connecting with people relationally
11:23
is imperative. It's it's not
11:24
Mm.
11:25
the primary thing. The primary thing is the preaching of the word of
11:28
God and and speaking truth from the pulpit.
11:31
but it connecting with people relationally is imperative.
11:35
They actually go hand in hand.
11:37
And so I we have to be thoughtful about both of them.
11:40
I don't I I'm I don't I've been thinking about what what does the Bible have
11:45
to say about this? And you know when it talks in James 2
11:51
About telling the poor man who's got bad clothing and rags,
11:57
you go sit over there and telling the rich man that's got a ring on his finger,
12:00
you come and sit in this exalted place.
12:03
it I think that what it's actually trying to communicate is a little different than
12:07
what you and I are talking about,
12:09
but it certainly helps us recognize that the way we impact
12:16
people.
12:17
Is not just what we do from the pulpit,
12:20
but what we actually
12:20
Mm.
12:21
talk to them like in it when we're standing in the s section where the chairs
12:25
are.
12:26
Mm.
12:27
so being among the people, that's that's really the church.
12:31
The church
12:31
Mm.
12:32
service is the preacher and the people who are talking from the pulpit.
12:36
Mm.
12:36
but
12:36
the church, that's the people and that's when we need to shine.
12:40
Yeah, I agree with you, which means that being friendly is not just a task.
12:47
It's part of worship. I we've talked about this maybe here,
12:50
but I know I've talked about it as a pastor,
12:52
even with our congregation, our church family,
12:55
is that there is horizontal level of worship.
12:58
There is that vertical that we're all focused on on Sunday morning,
13:01
but there's a horizontal element as well.
13:03
And being friendly and welcoming is not just something your pastor says.
13:08
To increase the numbers in the church,
13:10
hoping visitors will stay, hoping more members will join.
13:14
It is genuinely part of Jesus Christ's gospel ministry.
13:18
it's very, very important. And I guess as we get into why nobody is talking
13:22
to the guest, this is where we I think we should dig into the reasons people fail
13:26
to connect. most Christians, I think,
13:29
are not trying to intentionally ignore visitors.
13:31
they they might be
13:33
simply unaware of the opportunity in front of them.
13:35
They they might not prefer it.
13:38
Why as you've worked with people,
13:40
you were a pastor for thirty years.
13:42
Why don't we talk to people we don't know?
13:45
Why is that so hard?
13:46
well, I think it in some respects it's not just fear,
13:51
it's selfishness. I I have s I see someone over
13:54
Yeah, yeah.
13:54
there I I want to talk to, and I'm
13:57
Mm.
13:58
I'm just putting myself and what I want to do first and foremost.
14:02
I really do believe the key to coming to church is coming to serve.
14:09
Mm.
14:10
in any relationship, look for a need and
14:13
And start meeting that need and you're gonna you're gonna be connected.
14:18
You know, they say a friend in need is a friend in deed.
14:20
you know,
14:21
so if we go to church with the intention of serving,
14:24
looking for needs and then connecting with people,
14:29
it's it's gonna impact the way we do church.
14:32
It's not it's we're not going there to see the people we know.
14:35
We're going there to serve. I mean,
14:38
everybody has a need, and sometimes it's another it's a fellow brother or sister.
14:42
Mm-hmm.
14:43
but if we go there with the intention of meeting needs,
14:46
we're gonna look at church differently.
14:50
Just a pet peeve, don't
14:52
Yes.
14:52
come in at the last minute and expect to be able to help anybody.
14:55
you gotta come
14:56
Yeah.
14:56
early, you gotta stay late, you gotta look for people.
14:59
Yep. I and I know that one steps on some toes,
15:05
but it's so true. The most loving thing Jeff could have done is said that out loud
15:10
because
15:10
Yeah.
15:10
it we all need to hear it. yes,
15:12
cu i I tell people who want to go to lunch with me after church,
15:17
you're gonna get to the restaurant about thirty minutes before me.
15:21
and and honestly, even if I wasn't the pastor,
15:24
I find people in the church
15:26
They're 20 minutes after the service,
15:28
still talking with each other,
15:30
which is just a really good, healthy sign of fellowship.
15:33
I think I don't know why you you I don't know what you think about this,
15:37
Jeff, or what your what your thought is of why this happens.
15:39
I think some churches unintentionally train their people to be spectators.
15:44
And I don't know why, and I don't know how that happened.
15:47
I think it happens unintentionally sometimes.
15:50
Any thoughts on that?
15:51
Yeah. This is interesting. I I actually b believe congregational singing
15:56
can do an awful lot of of change with that if we just get people to
15:58
Mm-hmm.
15:59
genuinely participate and then help
16:02
Mm.
16:02
them to think in terms of I learn best with a pen in my hand.
16:05
I mean when I'm listening to to to to write down what I'm hearing and
16:10
so in all of those cases, I'm actually participating.
16:14
I'm going there with the intention of being impacted.
16:18
with the word of god and i I think we have to help people recognize it just because
16:23
you're sitting down doesn't mean you're not a participant.
16:26
Mm. Yep. Yep. Yeah,
16:30
I think you're right. I watch this and you've probably watched it too.
16:33
There are the people they get there early.
16:35
They do get there early. That's not their problem.
16:37
They find their seat. They put their coat on their seat.
16:40
They put their purse down, their coffee down,
16:43
they go find the donuts. They get in their they make sure they're all situated
16:47
and then they sit there and wait for the service to start.
16:51
And you're wondering, where does the
16:54
personal responsibility Jesus gave us for others fit into that whole picture right
16:59
there.
17:00
Yeah, yeah. Well and and I know there are some cur churches that kind of tried
17:05
to build moments of solemnity into their service where people are kind of getting
17:11
themselves in a frame to to participate well in worship.
17:16
And and I I get that, but you're right.
17:18
In terms of when it's time to be connecting with other people.
17:23
that's that's really what we ought to be doing is thinking in terms of where
17:26
can I find someone that that needs a a brotherly hug.
17:30
I by the way, I'm a hugger. I I go around looking for people that I believe I could
17:36
be a blessing to by giving a hug,
17:38
let them know I'm I'm glad they're there,
17:40
let them know I'm happy to see them.
17:42
Do you know what I mean? And and
17:43
Yep, absolutely.
17:45
you don't have to hug to do that.
17:46
You can shake their hand real big.
17:48
we could always go back to giving a holy ciss.
17:51
Ha.
17:52
th I just assume
17:53
Yeah.
17:54
stay with Hugging. but the the fact is letting people know I am so excited
18:01
to be able to see you. I've missed you.
18:03
I haven't seen you all week and
18:04
Yeah.
18:05
connecting with people.
18:07
Yeah, I think you're right. What's funny is there's a guy in my church that he's
18:12
a really funny guy, but he does want to greet with a holy kiss.
18:16
I am Middle Eastern, but we are in America,
18:18
so it doesn't work here as well.
18:18
Yeah, absolutely. I I actually traveled to Far East Russia
18:20
I I
18:23
and they they did that and yeah it it is certainly not comfortable i from
18:28
a American culture.
18:30
but anyway, I guess the other thing that I've noticed as a pastor is
18:34
one of the things that gets in the way of talking to a stranger and showing love
18:38
and care is we gravitate naturally towards the people we know.
18:42
And that's not a bad thing. I do wonder how we help people recognize that Sunday
18:48
morning isn't just an opportunity to to fellowship with our own friends,
18:52
because I think what can happen in a church,
18:53
Jeff, is
18:54
can develop clicks. We we can become a little hard to get into and break into.
19:00
And people can feel like there's this wall of inner people that we're not allowed
19:05
into and we're all over here on the periphery.
19:07
How how do you how do you show people this is an opportunity to love people
19:12
we haven't met yet? How do you instill that culturally in a church?
19:16
Well, I I think that it starts with leadership and I think that that
19:20
the leaders of the church should be instructed in leaders meetings
19:24
how to do this and and you know when you have leadership that is actively pursuing
19:30
loving on people
19:32
Mm.
19:32
and looking for people who have needs and meeting those needs through relationally
19:37
connecting with them. By the way,
19:38
you're not gonna have a counseling session with someone at church.
19:41
What you're gonna do at church is let them know how much you care for them so that
19:46
maybe the next time you go out to eat with them,
19:48
they want to talk to you about whatever is going on.
19:51
Mm.
19:52
it it's but helping the leadership to see that,
19:56
I I I think one of the things all of us have to do is we have to think.
20:01
We're talking about guests here.
20:02
So these are people that we don't know.
20:04
the the thought process is I'm those guests are gonna leave as quickly as they
20:11
get a chance. And and so if I'm gonna talk to a guest,
20:15
I'm gonna have to do it quickly.
20:16
I have to make a beeline for them.
20:18
I have to purpose my in my mind when this when the last hymn is done,
20:23
I'm I'm headed that way to see that person.
20:25
Mm. Hmm.
20:27
It has to be
20:27
purposeful.
20:29
And then talk to your friends after that because your friends are still gonna
20:32
be there. If if all of us are coming early and staying late so we can help people,
20:37
then my friend's still gonna be there.
20:39
I'll be able to see him later.
20:41
Yep. Yeah, you already have his contact info.
20:44
you know, you and this doesn't I don't know,
20:48
we're we're not picking on anybody.
20:50
I'm not picking on anybody. I you're not picking on anybody,
20:53
but this is spiritual stuff, so it matters.
20:56
And okay, if it's
20:56
It does matter.
20:57
if it's spiritual stuff, then it must be biblical.
21:00
There there must be a blip biblical precedent to this.
21:02
look at the ministry of Jesus Christ,
21:04
for instance. As you've looked at that and you I know you've just finished volume
21:07
two of conversations with Jesus.
21:09
And that's getting ready to hit the print pr print press and all that.
21:13
what stands out to you about the people Jesus chose to engage with?
21:17
How did he show that love to people?
21:19
Because he was a teacher of large crowds,
21:22
but all the time you see people going one on one with Jesus and Jesus going
21:25
one on one with them. What would you point to as some biblical texts that guide
21:29
us in this principle?
21:31
Finding the blind man and and I mean he he didn't wait for the blind man to come
21:37
to him. He went and found him.
21:39
the lame man, the woman at the well,
21:41
all of these people one of the things that just impacts me more than anything else,
21:46
not in John, is when Jesus reaches down and touches the leper.
21:51
I mean that man has probably not been touched physically for decades.
21:55
Mm.
21:56
Mm.
21:57
And
21:57
human touch d just almost you know,
22:01
sending shock waves through him.
22:04
And you just see Jesus reaching and meeting the the genuine needs
22:10
of people in need. And I
22:11
Mm, mm.
22:13
just think if we go to church thinking in terms of I want to go there to meet needs
22:17
and to help people, it's just gonna change the way I I go to church.
22:21
Hmm. Yeah, I I agree with you on that completely.
22:26
I I think there's several instances in Jesus' life where you see him,
22:29
the importance of making people feel welcome.
22:32
He even says to the little children,
22:34
Don't keep them from me. Let them come.
22:36
Let them let
22:37
Yeah.
22:37
them i and I was just listening to a pastor at a at a pastor's appreciation
22:42
luncheon who said there can be a temptation as a pastor to avoid the lobby
22:47
of the church.
22:48
There can be a temptation as a pastor to wanna go right from your study
22:51
to the pulpit, right from the pulpit back to your study to home.
22:54
and I think if that's a temptation for the pastor who's paid to be there,
22:59
who you could say I guess is paid to be friendly,
23:02
how much more a temptation sometimes can it be for us as Christians just
23:05
in the pew to just do our own thing,
23:07
get in, get out, that kind of thing.
23:10
Yeah. Well, and I I I feel like when we are headed to church with that mentality,
23:18
it's it we're not gonna get the same amount of benefit from what God is doing
23:23
in that group and in that service.
23:25
our own selfishness is gonna block us from the blessing.
23:29
So, you know, Jesus said, If if you know these things,
23:32
happy are you if you do them. this is this is actually beneficial to me.
23:38
in spending time when I go home from church having really touched and connected
23:44
with people, I go home encouraged and and infused.
23:48
whereas if I go in and and s you know have that selfishness or inwardness
23:55
of slipping in, slipping out and then I I go home feeling a little like I something
24:00
wasn't right.
24:01
Hmm. Yeah. I'll I'll tell you the other thing that's bugged me,
24:05
Jeff. Sometimes I'll see people gravitate towards
24:12
somebody who's new, but because of their appearance or their have a that maybe
24:19
they're a bit famous, they're well known in an area,
24:22
or they just look wealthy. I hate to say it out loud,
24:26
maybe but it's I'm not gonna beat around it.
24:28
They they're the ones that pulled in that.
24:30
morning with the Benz or the BMW or whatever.
24:33
And I've seen pastors do this to kind of give preferential treatment a little bit.
24:38
It can be a temptation in ministry to people who look like they have money.
24:42
and but sometimes it's not intentional.
24:45
Sometimes it's unintentional when a church does that.
24:48
And I guess more towards the unintentional side,
24:50
how do you think churches can communicate unintentionally that some people are worth
24:54
more of our attention than others?
24:57
Yeah, I I think that it's it's if it is unintentional,
25:03
then the answer is then let's be purposeful.
25:06
So
25:06
Mm.
25:07
when we get ready to go to church,
25:09
I ask God, God help me touch somebody who needs to be touched this morning.
25:16
Mm.
25:16
Use me
25:17
to make a difference in somebody's life.
25:20
And
25:20
Mm.
25:21
if if we are that
25:25
unintentionally I'm missing people,
25:27
then let's start being a little more intentional and purposely looking
25:31
for the the people that need that touch.
25:35
Hm. Yeah. I I think you're right.
25:39
Having purpose. One of my goals on Sunday morning,
25:42
and we have a smaller church right now.
25:44
you know, it's only about a hundred and fifty people,
25:46
but it's like my goal is to go around and shake everybody's hand,
25:51
hug every one of my widows, you know,
25:53
and that kind of thing is is really important because then you're fair,
25:58
right? You're saying
25:59
I'm gonna and you could make it smaller if you're sitting in the pew.
26:02
Maybe you're not like me, the pastor.
26:03
You're gonna try to touch everybody.
26:06
You could say, I'm gonna talk to everybody in my section.
26:09
I'm gonna talk to everybody in my row.
26:10
I'm gonna, you know, talk to everybody in the row in front of me,
26:13
the row behind me, my row. There's lots of ways to kind of cut that up.
26:18
you know, Romans fifteen seven tells us to receive one another as Christ receives us.
26:24
what kind of welcome,
26:28
would a church give to move beyond a handshake,
26:30
actually begin building a relationship if we start to dig down into the details.
26:35
What does it actually look like,
26:36
that care that you're describing?
26:39
Yeah. Anna and I have some folk that we recently connected with and just
26:45
from day one we asked them, hey,
26:48
let's get together sometime this week and and have dinner and just inviting them
26:53
to our home. I mean these y your home is the most powerful communicator that
26:58
I am open.
27:00
To to new friendships, you know.
27:02
Mm.
27:02
If
27:02
if I open my home to them, it it it just is amazing.
27:07
I I've heard of people who go to church having put on dinner,
27:13
knowing that I'm going to invite somebody to come home with me with the intention
27:19
of if there's a guest in that building,
27:21
I'm gonna ask them to come home and go have lunch with us today.
27:25
That that's the most powerful way of letting people know I we want you here.
27:31
We want to make friends with you.
27:33
And and maybe I should just take that a step further.
27:36
I think most pastors are really genuinely desirous to keep
27:43
people. I mean
27:45
Mm-hmm.
27:46
I want to reach people, but I think sometimes as church people,
27:49
it's easy for us to to just think in terms of
27:53
I I need an uplift this week. I need someone to touch me.
27:57
And that's certainly okay to to even ask God,
28:00
God, could you give me a meaningful connection with someone
28:03
Mm.
28:03
who would show me they care. but if we went to church thinking in terms
28:08
of I would love for everyone that I talk to to go home thinking,
28:14
I I really want to come back again next week because of how
28:19
I felt loved. that that would just change the way we behave.
28:24
Yeah, I I agree with you. that is the goal right there is how could I go to church
28:31
and love somebody? And I love that idea.
28:33
May make an extra two or three or whatever amount of places at your table on Sunday
28:40
morning by faith, knowing I'm bringing somebody home with me,
28:44
Lord willing. that is awesome.
28:46
I mean, that that challenges me because
28:50
I feel like sometimes I'm trying to get home Sunday afternoon to make sure
28:54
my sermon is ready for Sunday night.
28:56
And, you know, and I'm just thinking about what I have to accomplish instead
29:01
of thinking about how do I rearrange my life so I can take somebody home from
29:05
church. We can get to know somebody.
29:08
so, well, the conversation was awesome with you,
29:11
Jeff, as always. learned a lot.
29:14
I hope it's a blessing to you guys and our audience.
29:17
Thank you so much for listening,
29:18
sharing this podcast. This podcast would not have gone to the lengths that it's
29:22
gone all over the world now. we can genuinely say that all over the world
29:28
without you guys sharing it. and just appreciate your love,
29:32
support, prayer so much. if you're interested in helping us further
29:36
our mission even more as we seek to expand the influence of the exchange and give
29:42
more Christians in Christ's kingdom.
29:44
the ability to share the gospel with a tool and an apt tool in their hand
29:50
and give them the confidence and all of that.
29:53
It does take many money to make all that happen.
29:55
And if you're interested in supporting it,
29:57
go to exchangemessage.org forward slash donate and you can give there.
30:01
We are a 501c3. and so that those are all tax deductible givings.
30:06
But we thank you guys for your generosity.
30:08
This wouldn't be possible without you and we will pick this conversation up next
30:12
week.
30:13
We love you guys. See ya then.