Latest / The Week in Bible Prophecy / Coming From Demons and Being Led to the Lord | Michael Gagliardi

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Coming From Demons and Being Led to the Lord | Michael Gagliardi · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Gary Steerman of Prophecy Watchers, and today I'm
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Speaker 1: talking with Michael Gagliardi and he is a gentleman with
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Speaker 1: whom I've had a long conversation prior to this, and
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Speaker 1: I have really been impressed by his message. Michael, Welcome,
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Speaker 1: Prophecy Watchers. Good to see you.
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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. It's a warm day here
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Speaker 2: in the Coachella Valley. It's one hundred and ten degrees
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Speaker 2: the way you guys are, but I'm sure it's cooler.
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Speaker 1: One hundred and ten degrees. Well, at least you don't
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Speaker 1: have to have any artificial heat. That You've got all
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Speaker 1: the heat you need. Michael, you have a story that
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Speaker 1: I want you to share, and I'd like to chat
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Speaker 1: with you during the time that you're sharing this because
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Speaker 1: we take I think this world for granted. I think
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Speaker 1: human beings doing their daily thing tend to take coming
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Speaker 1: and going, eating breakfast, eating supper, sleeping, you know, and
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Speaker 1: if by some chance we go to church, and if
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Speaker 1: we get saved in the vernacular, then we go to
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Speaker 1: church on Sunday and everything is just fine. And that's
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Speaker 1: kind of the view that people have of Christianity. Talking
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Speaker 1: to you, you get an entirely different view. In fact,
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Speaker 1: in your early childhood you grew up with a firsthand
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Speaker 1: knowledge that this world is not just all sweetness and light,
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Speaker 1: and it's not all just going to church and coming
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Speaker 1: home and making money. There's a deeper and darker aspect
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Speaker 1: to life. And let's start right there and talk about
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Speaker 1: where you came from and how you grew up.
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Speaker 2: Well. I grew up in the in the Toronto area
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Speaker 2: in Ontario, Canada. I was born in a Tobacco, which
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Speaker 2: is one of the boroughs. It's just like New York.
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Speaker 2: We have Burroughs and in Ontario, just like they have
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Speaker 2: in New York, the Bronx. And I grew up in
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Speaker 2: a tobacco. And basically what my whole story is about
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Speaker 2: is that my mother's father, who she dearly loved, with
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Speaker 2: her sister and her brother, he died a tragic death,
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Speaker 2: being killed by a train. And my mother and her
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Speaker 2: sister took solace in seances to speak, to grab a
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Speaker 2: hold of to connect with her father who they adore.
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Speaker 1: So she was looking for answers.
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Speaker 2: She was looking for answers she her father. She had
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Speaker 2: doored her father, she lost him tragically and they tried
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Speaker 2: very hard to connect with him in the spirit realm,
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Speaker 2: and that's what kind of opened the doorway to the
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Speaker 2: demonic forces that came into our family. And apparently this
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Speaker 2: started before I was born, and when I was about
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Speaker 2: three years old, insidious things started happening in our house.
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Speaker 2: My mother started hearing voices, hearing scratchings in the walls
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Speaker 2: and knockings. And I believe at that time she was
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Speaker 2: still involved with seances with her sister because her sister
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Speaker 2: wasn an occultist for a number of years, and that
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Speaker 2: began the path of the demonic oppression until years later.
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Speaker 2: It never stopped until it was full possession. We lived
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Speaker 2: in it. We moved from Toronto into a small town
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Speaker 2: in northern Ontario, Canada. I'm really not sure why, but
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Speaker 2: we were isolated in this tiny town and that's when
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Speaker 2: things began to escalate and get really, really bad.
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Speaker 1: Well, you know, as you begin the story, and by
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Speaker 1: the way, I stick with us because his story has
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Speaker 1: a wonderful conclusion, and I think it's a conclusion that
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Speaker 1: we all need to hear and think about. But so far,
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Speaker 1: what you're telling me is demons are real. In other words,
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Speaker 1: they are real and they're nobody really want to be
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Speaker 1: close to right.
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Speaker 2: Yes, I had twelve year close, firsthand experience with my
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Speaker 2: mother speaking in different languages, in different voices, using yourself.
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Speaker 2: The list is without going into details, it's very horrific,
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Speaker 2: and I suffered great PTSD. Even to this day, I
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Speaker 2: have severe PTSD that I deal with.
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Speaker 1: And at the height of at the height of this,
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Speaker 1: how old were you?
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Speaker 2: Well, it started around three when I started noticing things,
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Speaker 2: and my sister's seven years older, so she noticed it before.
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Speaker 2: And by the time I was sixteen, it was really
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Speaker 2: really bad. And then eventually at nineteen, I had to
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Speaker 2: leave the country to put it all behind me, to
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Speaker 2: start afresh in anew.
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Speaker 1: Now here you are this is kind of the crux
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Speaker 1: of the story. You are living a life of torment
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Speaker 1: and you are seeing You and your sister are seeing
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Speaker 1: things that most people never see. But this is an
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Speaker 1: absolute reality for you. And we're talking about, folks. Is salvation?
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Speaker 1: I mean when I hear Michael's story, running through my
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Speaker 1: mind at all times is the idea of salvation. And
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Speaker 1: then my secondary thought, Michael, is that people think of
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Speaker 1: salvation as kind of a neutral event. You maybe walk
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Speaker 1: to the front of a chapel, or however you do it,
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Speaker 1: or you might sit with a pastor and you pray together,
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Speaker 1: and then a little bit later you're baptized. And that
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Speaker 1: is that, and that's as deep as you ever get into,
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Speaker 1: shall we say, the spiritual battle that is going on
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Speaker 1: planet Earth. You came through the back door, so to speak.
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Speaker 1: The first thing you ever saw was the darkness, and
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Speaker 1: to me, that's the value of your story. So let's
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Speaker 1: continue on there.
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Speaker 2: Well, the thing that really had an impact on me,
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Speaker 2: despite what was going on my mother, even at an
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Speaker 2: early age, was that I realized that I couldn't trust
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Speaker 2: my mother and my father at a very young age.
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Speaker 2: My father was never home and my mother was going
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Speaker 2: through this thing. She never kissed me, she never, she
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Speaker 2: never coddled me, she never held me, she never. There
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Speaker 2: was no affection whatsoever. I was just existing as this
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Speaker 2: little boy. And so I learned at a very young
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Speaker 2: age not to trust anyone. And the Lord knew that. I.
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Speaker 2: You know, if I can't trust your parents, you can't
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Speaker 2: trust anybody. I mean, if they brought you into this world,
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Speaker 2: and they they spend their time making money and building
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Speaker 2: a home for you and security and safety and all
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Speaker 2: these things that your friends don't do, you know, I mean,
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Speaker 2: they're the epitome of care and nurturing in your life.
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Speaker 2: And when you don't have that, everyone else just falls
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Speaker 2: miserably off that cliff of you understanding that you can't
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Speaker 2: trust them. So the Lord knew I wasn't going to
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Speaker 2: trust anyone, so he said, Okay, I guess this is
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Speaker 2: how I'm going to have to reach you. And many
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Speaker 2: years later, after I left the country, I was nineteen
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Speaker 2: years old. I left the country and my wife and
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Speaker 2: I we got married at a very young age. We
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Speaker 2: were nineteen and eighteen years old, and we started fighting
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Speaker 2: a lot. And you know, part of the reason why
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Speaker 2: we're fighting a lot is that I had severe PTSD
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Speaker 2: symptoms and didn't even know it, didn't know why I
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Speaker 2: felt like I felt, why I acted like I acted,
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Speaker 2: and how I perceived life, because everybody was maligned in
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Speaker 2: my perspective and no one was really you know, righteous
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Speaker 2: or true because you know that came from my parents.
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Speaker 2: So my wife and I ended up separating, and a
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Speaker 2: couple of weeks after we separated, she told me that
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Speaker 2: she was pregnant. And when I found that out, I
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Speaker 2: was absolutely devastated, and I didn't want to be one
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Speaker 2: of those guys that wasn't going to be around for
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Speaker 2: his child. And you know, I was like, what am
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Speaker 2: I doing? And for the next few weeks, I felt
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Speaker 2: the brevity the weight of my sin. And you know,
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Speaker 2: I didn't call it sin, but I felt the pressure
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Speaker 2: of this, this situation that I was able to fix,
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Speaker 2: but I created it in a sense, and it was
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Speaker 2: so heavy on my heart that I just couldn't.
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Speaker 1: Now at that point, let me just cut in and
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Speaker 1: in the law, in the uh, I guess the story
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Speaker 1: of your salvation. Where are you at this point when
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Speaker 1: all this is happening that you're talking about. You're not
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Speaker 1: saved at this point?
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Speaker 2: Yes, And I had at nineteen years old, eighteen years old,
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Speaker 2: I had moved to California. I left Canada. I was
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Speaker 2: from the Toronto area and I said, I need a
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Speaker 2: new start, I need to get out of here. And
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Speaker 2: I was homeless on the Santa Monica Pier. I was
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Speaker 2: living under the Santa Monica Pier. The only reason why
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Speaker 2: I went there is because we didn't have internet in
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Speaker 2: those days. And one of my favorite shows was Three's
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Speaker 2: Company and the trailer the intro for Three's company was
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Speaker 2: on the Santa Monica Pier and I used to watch
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Speaker 2: that and go, I'm going to go there. That's real.
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Speaker 2: That place is real. So I hopped on a bus.
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Speaker 2: There's more details to the story because I actually got
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Speaker 2: rejected at the customs and I had to kind of
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Speaker 2: sneak across, which was a mess. But I got rejected,
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Speaker 2: and I came to California and I was sleeping under
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Speaker 2: the Santa Monica peer and twelve days later I met
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Speaker 2: my wife. So God had this thing all planned out,
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Speaker 2: you know. And it was after I had met my wife,
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Speaker 2: we ended up, you know, getting married and you know,
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Speaker 2: the same the same within a year, and you know,
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Speaker 2: we started fighting because I really never knew anything about relationships.
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Speaker 2: I couldn't I didn't know how to do a relationship.
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Speaker 2: I was pretty anept to socialization. I mean back then,
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Speaker 2: I couldn't even talk on the phone. My wife would
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Speaker 2: have to make phone calls for me. And I was
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Speaker 2: a musician trying to get in a band. She'd make
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Speaker 2: the phone calls for me. Because I just couldn't socially adapt.
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Speaker 2: I had no social skills. Souh. After we started fighting,
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Speaker 2: we broke up, and like I said, before you know,
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Speaker 2: I found out she was pregnant. And you know, within
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Speaker 2: two weeks I was as a human being. I was
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Speaker 2: feeling the full weight of what I know now is
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Speaker 2: the the of sin in my life. And I was
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Speaker 2: so heavy that one day when I was going to
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Speaker 2: see her, you know, I gave her my I had
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Speaker 2: such terrible guilt. I gave her my truck, I gave
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Speaker 2: her my money, I gave her everything. But one day,
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Speaker 2: on a bus, because I gave her my truck, I
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Speaker 2: was going down Ventura Boulevard and I was right in
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Speaker 2: front of Taft High School and I couldn't bear it
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Speaker 2: no more. And I cried right there in front of
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Speaker 2: probably forty or fifty people on that bus. They were
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Speaker 2: all looking at me. I couldn't care less. I was
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Speaker 2: just so distraught I was, and I surrendered myself. I said, Lord,
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Speaker 2: whoever you are, because I didn't know who God was,
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Speaker 2: but I knew that there was a creator that had
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Speaker 2: to be I just wasn't following or searching at that point,
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Speaker 2: and I asked him. I said, Lord, whoever you are,
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Speaker 2: forgive me for what I've done. I've made a mess
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Speaker 2: of my life. And you know, I'm not going to
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Speaker 2: say I heard a voice. I didn't hear a voice.
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Speaker 2: I didn't see anything, but I felt this amazing wave
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Speaker 2: of joy, of happiness and a sense of peace that
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Speaker 2: it's gonna be okay. And from looking out the window
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Speaker 2: to the minute that that happened. When I turned around,
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Speaker 2: I was able to see the people on that bus
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Speaker 2: and the world. It's the veil had lifted. And it
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Speaker 2: wasn't until months later when I went to church that
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Speaker 2: I found out these terms and these explanations for these terms,
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Speaker 2: that the veil had been lifted, and now I was
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Speaker 2: able to see the world as it was. Anyway, I
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Speaker 2: was so filled with joy at that moment. People probably
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Speaker 2: thought I was crazy. I was crying one minute and
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Speaker 2: then I had a smile my face. And when I
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Speaker 2: got to my destination, I got off the bus and
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Speaker 2: I ran to my old house and I knocked on
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Speaker 2: the door and my wife answered the door, and I said,
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Speaker 2: you're not going to believe what happened to me on
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Speaker 2: this bus. I don't even know what happened to me,
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Speaker 2: but something wonderful happened to me, and she let me in.
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Speaker 2: She was kind of apprehensive, and I sat on the
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Speaker 2: I sat her down on the couch and I said, listen,
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Speaker 2: something just happened to me. And I don't even know
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Speaker 2: what it was, but I've got to tell you it's
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Speaker 2: going to be okay. And I went to get back
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Speaker 2: together again, and we're going to do this thing right.
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Speaker 2: We're gonna stay married, we're going to have this child,
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Speaker 2: and we're going to do things right. And I still
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Speaker 2: had no idea what had happened to me.
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Speaker 1: I really at this point didn't know what right was.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I had no idea what it happened to me.
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Speaker 1: Well, let me recap just a second. Back in the
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Speaker 1: seventies and eighties, you started out in northern Ontario in
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Speaker 1: a terrible family situation, your family, your mom possessed. We
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Speaker 1: talked about that, and you finally fled and came to California,
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Speaker 1: and then the thing happened to you that we have
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Speaker 1: just heard about. And so that sort of recaps. I'd
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Speaker 1: like to go back to the very beginning. And you
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Speaker 1: shared something with me in another conversation about the spiritual
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Speaker 1: status where you grew up the status of society in
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Speaker 1: Ontario and around the Winnipeg and places like that, that
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Speaker 1: they are not unfamiliar with the dark side up there,
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Speaker 1: and you grew up in that if you will in
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Speaker 1: that environment.
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Speaker 2: Yes, if you do some research about the Niagara area,
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Speaker 2: of the Saint Catherine's area, all up through Ontario into
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Speaker 2: Toronto into Petersborough, you will find out that there's a
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Speaker 2: heavy presence, a heavy presence of mounds, just like they
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Speaker 2: have in Ohio. So we know, just like just like
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Speaker 2: Abraham Lincoln said about the Niagara Falls that the giants
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Speaker 2: their eyes gazed upon the Niagara Falls. So we know
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Speaker 2: that that whole area of southern Ontario was a Nephelum
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Speaker 2: breeding ground and it's very dark. It's very dark. I
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Speaker 2: mean growing up as a kid, we would we would
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Speaker 2: find these abandoned houses, you know, out in the country,
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Speaker 2: and we visit these homes. You know, your kids, you're twelve,
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Speaker 2: you're thirteen, you want your adventurous, you're ambitious. We go
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Speaker 2: into these houses and we'd find pentagrams on the ground
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Speaker 2: and you know, animal sacrifices. Sometimes the animals would still
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Speaker 2: be there. And that was back then, you know, and
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Speaker 2: it was we we'd always hear stories about, you know,
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Speaker 2: covens in the in the woods, deep in the woods
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Speaker 2: and things like that. So Ontario in the Nagara region
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Speaker 2: is a very dark, dark place. It's extremely territorial by
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Speaker 2: spiritual nature. There are definitely principalities ruling over those areas.
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Speaker 2: In fact, the little town that I grew up in,
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Speaker 2: after doing some research over the last couple of ten years,
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Speaker 2: ninety percent of all the movies that are filmed in
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Speaker 2: that area are horror movies. There's been cannibalistic movies that
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Speaker 2: have been filmed there. Yeah, a lot of demonic movies
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Speaker 2: and movies, including the Devil in the title, which is fascinating.
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Speaker 2: So you know, when you do your research about that,
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Speaker 2: you understand that these entities have dominion over these areas.
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Speaker 2: There are certain areas that they hold on to, and
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Speaker 2: when people move into those areas, you know, the darkness
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Speaker 2: is there. The darkness is there.
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Speaker 1: And you shared with me in a previous conversation that
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Speaker 1: there are the little people in the woods. There are
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Speaker 1: things like that that people talk about up there, and
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Speaker 1: that's sort of the environment where you grew up.
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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you know, I've never heard it that much
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Speaker 2: in the United States, but there's a lot of information
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Speaker 2: out there about these little people from Ontario. All the
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Speaker 2: way to Vancouver, from six inches tall to about you know,
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Speaker 2: two feet two and a half feet. And my mother
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Speaker 2: would often say, this was in the beginning of the oppression,
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Speaker 2: that she would see little people running around our house.
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Speaker 2: And we happened to get a cat a couple of
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Speaker 2: years later, and she wanted to kill the cat because
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Speaker 2: she said that the cat was eating the little people.
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Speaker 2: She would see their feet dangling from her mouth, and yeah,
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Speaker 2: this and you know, it's very strange. And I've done
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Speaker 2: a lot of studies on the little people and you
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Speaker 2: see a lot of that in the areas of Ontario
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Speaker 2: all the way to Vancouver, mostly in Canada.
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Speaker 1: The reason I wanted to talk about this is because
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Speaker 1: that's the world. You talk about the world, and wherever
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Speaker 1: you go around the world, there are backgrounds, if you will.
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Speaker 1: Of course, in the Middle East, the Far East, you
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Speaker 1: find all kinds of superstitions so called, that feature various
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Speaker 1: demonological ideologies and strange creatures. And you see, this's like
19:37
Speaker 1: in India and the Near East and the Far East,
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Speaker 1: and then in Canada and then in other places that
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Speaker 1: we could talk about. But what I wanted to do
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Speaker 1: was kind of set the scene for what became a
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Speaker 1: spectacular salvation, the one that happened to you. And that's
19:57
Speaker 1: where we left off on the story. And the story
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Speaker 1: is you went home. You told your wife, look, something
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Speaker 1: has happened. Let's let's begin from there, and let's talk
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Speaker 1: about the born again experience as you saw it at
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Speaker 1: that time.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fascinating, and when I look back at it today,
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Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by it. Even though it happened to me.
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Speaker 2: The days after actually getting saved, I would tell my
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Speaker 2: wife that. So we got to back together. Two weeks later,
20:35
Speaker 2: after I got off the bus, we made plans to
20:37
Speaker 2: get back together. Two weeks later, you were.
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Speaker 1: On a bus, sitting on a bus, you broke into
20:43
Speaker 1: tears in front of fifty people. You got off the bus.
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Speaker 1: You were a changed person, but you really didn't know
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Speaker 1: how you were changed.
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Speaker 2: At this point, I had no idea. I just kept
20:55
Speaker 2: telling my wife something happened to me, and I'm not
20:58
Speaker 2: the same person anymore. So I started getting really thirsty
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Speaker 2: for the Lord. And still at that point, I didn't
21:06
Speaker 2: know who the Lord was. So I rented Franco Zephyerelli's
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Speaker 2: Jesus of Nazareth Ah Yes, hoping that that you know, well,
21:17
Speaker 2: let me, you know, let me search into this. Who
21:19
Speaker 2: is this Lord that I feel like I've just met. Anyway,
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Speaker 2: I was watching the movie and my wife was cooking
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Speaker 2: or washing dishes in the kitchen and the phrase came out.
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Speaker 2: It's a red letter movie where Jesus says the red
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Speaker 2: letters like in the Bible. So and he comes to
21:36
Speaker 2: the part where he says, my sheep know my voice.
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Speaker 2: They hear me, and they know my voice. And I
21:45
Speaker 2: stood back on my chair and I told Sherry, come
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Speaker 2: in here, come in here. She ran into the room.
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Speaker 2: She thought there was something wrong. And I pointed at
21:53
Speaker 2: the TV and I said, that's who I met on
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Speaker 2: the bus. I said, I did not hear an audible voice,
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Speaker 2: but his voice is who I heard. And she kind
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Speaker 2: of looked at me like okay, okay, you know, and
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Speaker 2: you know, I was convinced. I was convinced that's who
22:13
Speaker 2: spoke to me on the bus. That's who I met
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Speaker 2: on the bus. And my thirst, my thirst for God
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Speaker 2: once again. Still I didn't know. I got a point
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Speaker 2: now at Jesus because that's whose voice I identified. And
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Speaker 2: then I asked a friend of mine, you know, where
22:33
Speaker 2: can we go to church, and he goes, well, we
22:34
Speaker 2: go to church at Rocky Peak in seem Me Valley.
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Speaker 2: So I told Sherry, Okay, next Sunday, we're going. We
22:43
Speaker 2: went there. We're sitting there and the pastor starts giving
22:48
Speaker 2: a sermon about being born again. And when he got
22:53
Speaker 2: to the part with Nicodemus and he's Jesus said you
22:57
Speaker 2: must be born again. That's when I put two and
23:00
Speaker 2: two together and I turned to my wife and I said,
23:04
Speaker 2: this is what happened to me. This is what happened
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Speaker 2: to me on the bus. I was born again. Even
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Speaker 2: though I didn't even know it was the first time
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Speaker 2: I heard the terminology. I knew that born again is
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Speaker 2: what happened to me. That I was born again in
23:20
Speaker 2: the spirit, because I kept telling her I'm a new man.
23:23
Speaker 2: I'm not the man I used to be, and I
23:24
Speaker 2: can't explain it to you.
23:26
Speaker 1: And nobody came to you and witnessed to you and
23:29
Speaker 1: said you must be born again and talked about all
23:33
Speaker 1: the aspects of salvation. Nobody led you to Christ. This
23:37
Speaker 1: is truly amazing. I mean, it's the grace of God
23:42
Speaker 1: in action. And that's why I love to talk to
23:45
Speaker 1: you because The story starts in darkness and in difficulty,
23:50
Speaker 1: and I suppose you could say hopelessness of where do
23:56
Speaker 1: I go from here? And it ends with the love
23:59
Speaker 1: of Jesus. And you know, in First John twice, John
24:03
Speaker 1: says God is love and he uses the little three
24:07
Speaker 1: word sentence, God is love. Period. That's the end of
24:11
Speaker 1: that sentence. And the first time I ever saw that
24:14
Speaker 1: in the Bible, I thought, that's spectacular. The creator of
24:20
Speaker 1: the heavens and the earth, and the ruler of the universe,
24:22
Speaker 1: and you know, the Son of God and God Incarnate
24:26
Speaker 1: and the Holy Spirit. But it all boils down to
24:29
Speaker 1: God is Love. And your story reminds me of that.
24:35
Speaker 2: Yes, well, I wasn't able to see right away that
24:40
Speaker 2: it was love for me because I never experienced love.
24:44
Speaker 2: My mother never held me, she never touched me, she
24:46
Speaker 2: never kissed me. I didn't know what love was until
24:51
Speaker 2: once again, being fed by God's word, he says that
24:55
Speaker 2: He died on the cross. You know, though we were
24:58
Speaker 2: yet sinners, he died for us because he loved us.
25:02
Speaker 2: And that's see I had to put this whole thing together.
25:05
Speaker 2: It was like a mystery to me, and I said,
25:08
Speaker 2: he did it for me. He chased me down because
25:12
Speaker 2: he loved me. And that was the very first time
25:15
Speaker 2: where I felt loved. Somebody loves me. I was like
25:21
Speaker 2: blown away by that. And the only person where I
25:25
Speaker 2: actually saw love being on display was my wife. But
25:31
Speaker 2: the first time I felt love was when I was
25:34
Speaker 2: born again, and it was part of that experience that
25:37
Speaker 2: I didn't know how, I didn't know. See, that's what
25:40
Speaker 2: made me feel okay and safe and that I had
25:43
Speaker 2: peace is because I was loved, which I had never
25:46
Speaker 2: experienced before. Now, so that was the great joy.
25:51
Speaker 1: It is great joy. Yeah, And when I hear your story,
25:54
Speaker 1: I can also hear somebody out there and maybe listening
25:57
Speaker 1: to us right now, saying, I'm not sure that I
26:01
Speaker 1: believe any of this story at all. And furthermore, why
26:04
Speaker 1: doesn't God love me? There's somebody out there who is
26:09
Speaker 1: in great distress, who is in a situation that seems unresolvable,
26:18
Speaker 1: and they're saying, if God is love, it certainly doesn't
26:22
Speaker 1: appear that way to me. What would you say to
26:26
Speaker 1: that person?
26:28
Speaker 2: Well, I would if I did feel like that. I
26:32
Speaker 2: did feel like that. But what changed it is that
26:37
Speaker 2: I came before the throne and I surrendered and I
26:40
Speaker 2: bowed my head. See that that was the thing that
26:44
Speaker 2: changed it, because I would have remained in that heavy laden,
26:49
Speaker 2: heavy burdened situation that had no escape, but because I
26:55
Speaker 2: came to Christ in humbleness, in humility, and like a child,
27:00
Speaker 2: and I cried before him, not because I wanted, not
27:04
Speaker 2: because I wanted some sort of resolution, but I knew
27:08
Speaker 2: that I was sinful. It made me recognize my sin.
27:12
Speaker 2: And we cannot come to Jesus unless we recognize that
27:15
Speaker 2: we are sinful, because we have no need for Christ
27:19
Speaker 2: if we don't understand that we're sinful. As soon as
27:23
Speaker 2: you figure that out, that, oh my gosh, I'm a
27:26
Speaker 2: sinful person. And I was feeling the brevity of that
27:28
Speaker 2: whole time. That's why I knew I had to go
27:31
Speaker 2: to someone who is higher than me to help me,
27:35
Speaker 2: you know. And that's why I cried out to him,
27:37
Speaker 2: and I cried out to him in humbleness, and I surrendered,
27:42
Speaker 2: you know. Like I said, I was so distraught that
27:44
Speaker 2: I cried in front of forty or fifty people and
27:47
Speaker 2: they were all looking at me, and I couldn't care
27:49
Speaker 2: less what they thought. I just knew that this was
27:52
Speaker 2: the end for me. I was either going to kill myself,
27:55
Speaker 2: you know, or you know, the options were not good.
28:00
Speaker 2: I had nothing to lose. And I think that's where
28:03
Speaker 2: most people they don't get to like I know, people
28:06
Speaker 2: that said that they've prayed for this in their life,
28:10
Speaker 2: this in their life, and you know, take the yearning
28:14
Speaker 2: for alcohol and things like that. They just want him
28:18
Speaker 2: to come and take that away. They don't want to
28:20
Speaker 2: surrender before him. So you can't put the cart before
28:24
Speaker 2: the horse. You got to have Jesus first before he
28:27
Speaker 2: comes into your heart and then works the heart. You
28:30
Speaker 2: can't ask for the heart to be changed and then say, well,
28:32
Speaker 2: then all ask Jesus. Then all come to Jesus, show
28:35
Speaker 2: me first what you can do. So that was the difference,
28:39
Speaker 2: and I think that's the difference with all humanity, is
28:42
Speaker 2: that you got to come to Him first.
28:44
Speaker 1: Indeed, and I was looking at First Corinthians as you're
28:48
Speaker 1: talking here, and First Corinthians one twenty one says, for
28:54
Speaker 1: after that and the wisdom of God, the world by
28:57
Speaker 1: wisdom knew not God. It pleased God by the foolishness
29:02
Speaker 1: of preaching to save man, to save them that believe.
29:08
Speaker 1: In other words, the wisdom of God is regarded by
29:12
Speaker 1: people on earth as foolishness, and contrasting that with that
29:17
Speaker 1: day on the bus when you came sort of to
29:20
Speaker 1: a crisis and suddenly the word foolishness just didn't have
29:26
Speaker 1: any more meaning for you. But I know you and
29:35
Speaker 1: I both know that a lot of people when they
29:38
Speaker 1: hear anything about Christianity, they think of it in a
29:43
Speaker 1: formalized fashion, and then they look at their watch and say, oh,
29:46
Speaker 1: time ago, I can't you know, I don't have time
29:48
Speaker 1: to listen to this. See you later. And because they
29:52
Speaker 1: in their minds, the formulaic idea of Christianity is something
29:58
Speaker 1: that you can listen to or you can just walk away.
30:03
Speaker 1: And that's sort of the way the world looks at
30:06
Speaker 1: the Gospel. You take the Gospel a step further on
30:10
Speaker 1: the bus, and the scene on the bus will never
30:13
Speaker 1: leave my mind. You're back there, you're crying. Something is
30:18
Speaker 1: terribly wrong. This is the culmination of many, many years,
30:22
Speaker 1: and the word foolishness is the farthest thing from your
30:26
Speaker 1: mind at that point.
30:27
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, I was deplete of solutions, deplete of myself,
30:34
Speaker 2: and I knew that there was that the earth, the world.
30:38
Speaker 2: Solutions were not any for me, and I had to
30:43
Speaker 2: go beyond that. And I think that's what most people have.
30:46
Speaker 2: Most people have to realize. I think I think most
30:49
Speaker 2: people do come to Christ honestly, when they're shattered, when
30:54
Speaker 2: they're thrown on the ground and shattered into a million pieces,
30:58
Speaker 2: because you know, unless we render ourselves like children before him,
31:02
Speaker 2: which is what I did. I mean, children cry in
31:05
Speaker 2: front of people and they don't care, right, that's what
31:08
Speaker 2: they do. They cry in restaurants. They don't care whether
31:11
Speaker 2: people are looking at them.
31:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
31:13
Speaker 2: And I think that's the most humble stance that you
31:16
Speaker 2: can take, is to cry for Jesus. But you have
31:21
Speaker 2: to be led there. You have to be led there.
31:25
Speaker 2: And this is what Christ does. He allows you to
31:29
Speaker 2: go through your sin until you recognize that it's unbearable.
31:34
Speaker 2: Because we cannot see or come to Christ without knowing
31:39
Speaker 2: that you have a sin problem. There is no way
31:43
Speaker 2: of getting around that. You cannot avert, you know, the
31:47
Speaker 2: obstacle of sin to come to Jesus and expect something
31:51
Speaker 2: to change in your life without dealing with the sin
31:55
Speaker 2: that is the issue. And until a person is completely
31:59
Speaker 2: burned and by that sin and feels the guilt and
32:03
Speaker 2: the contrition of it. You can't approach him. You can't
32:08
Speaker 2: approach him. You know, that's why God is a holy god.
32:12
Speaker 2: You know he needs you empty so that he can
32:15
Speaker 2: fiell you up.
32:17
Speaker 1: Well, Paul talks about this reading again in the First
32:21
Speaker 1: Printhians that he says, because the foolishness of God is
32:28
Speaker 1: wiser than man, and the weakness of God is stronger
32:32
Speaker 1: than man. And the thing about this is that and
32:36
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of the world today, not just the scene
32:39
Speaker 1: of you on the bus and the background in Canada,
32:43
Speaker 1: but I'm thinking of the world today and the pervasive
32:49
Speaker 1: quality of sin that this foolishness is at covering the planet.
32:56
Speaker 1: And the more the deeper you are in Christ, the
32:58
Speaker 1: more you think about that, and you and you start thinking, well,
33:01
Speaker 1: what can we do? What can I do? And what
33:06
Speaker 1: have you done? In the years since that incident on
33:10
Speaker 1: the bus.
33:12
Speaker 2: Well, it's been a world win for a while. After
33:17
Speaker 2: when I did become a Christian, I told God, I'm
33:20
Speaker 2: not going to be your poster child. I told them
33:23
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be your poster child for this.
33:25
Speaker 2: And I went about my life and I started feeling
33:29
Speaker 2: very heavy once again that I wasn't doing what the
33:33
Speaker 2: father wanted, and so I started to minister to people,
33:39
Speaker 2: and believe it or not, my wife came to Christ
33:43
Speaker 2: a couple months later after we got back together. Then
33:47
Speaker 2: her mother, her sister, her other sister, their husbands, the
33:53
Speaker 2: grandchildren who are now adults with their own families. So
33:57
Speaker 2: many people came to know the Lord, and I began
34:00
Speaker 2: and speaking out where I was at work, and many
34:04
Speaker 2: people called me later on, years later and said, you
34:07
Speaker 2: know what your testimony is what made me search for
34:12
Speaker 2: the Lord, that I knew something wasn't wrong in my life.
34:16
Speaker 2: And to this day, I'm a worship leader. I've been
34:19
Speaker 2: a worship leader for over twenty years. I'm a chaplain
34:23
Speaker 2: for a professional hockey team, wow. And now I'm going
34:26
Speaker 2: around speaking speaking at conferences, men's conferences on demonology and
34:34
Speaker 2: prehistory and how to know Jesus more and breaking the
34:41
Speaker 2: stratagems of the evil One, since that is something I'm
34:45
Speaker 2: very very familiar with living well.
34:48
Speaker 1: Indeed, your story really starts with demonology and with evil
34:55
Speaker 1: that you totally misunderstood. In other words, you didn't have
34:59
Speaker 1: the information, the capability at that age and at that
35:03
Speaker 1: time to really understand what was going on. But in retrospect,
35:06
Speaker 1: now you know that Satan and his minions are real.
35:12
Speaker 1: And yes, I think that needs to be uh emphasized
35:16
Speaker 1: in a way. I think people really really needed to
35:19
Speaker 1: understand that the dark Side is real, It's not just
35:22
Speaker 1: a fiction.
35:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I knew, I know now that I was
35:28
Speaker 2: the target because God often reveals his plans and then
35:32
Speaker 2: the devil does his countermove as La Marzouli always says,
35:37
Speaker 2: you know, yes, and that's what happened. I knew I
35:40
Speaker 2: was the target because he knew that I was going
35:42
Speaker 2: to come to him, you know, sometime in the future,
35:45
Speaker 2: and I was going to help lead people to Christ,
35:47
Speaker 2: help people see their sin and a need for Jesus,
35:52
Speaker 2: you know, for the redemption, you know, of the blood
35:54
Speaker 2: of Christ to cover your sins. And that's what I've
35:57
Speaker 2: been doing since day one. And I'm even though I
36:02
Speaker 2: still have the scars of my PTSD, which I still
36:06
Speaker 2: do severely bad. I have a really hard time at
36:10
Speaker 2: night sleeping. I have to take medications and things this
36:13
Speaker 2: because I get shakes and shutters and stuff like this.
36:17
Speaker 2: But I have joy in my heart. I don't have depression.
36:20
Speaker 2: I went through depression for about eighteen years with suicidal
36:23
Speaker 2: was in lockdown at Loma Linda. You know. I mean,
36:26
Speaker 2: the details go on and on and on and on,
36:28
Speaker 2: and the fight goes on and on and on, you know,
36:31
Speaker 2: but I am so joyful. I have no fear of
36:35
Speaker 2: the enemy, and I'm a frontline guy. All run to
36:39
Speaker 2: the front line and fight for Jesus because I know,
36:42
Speaker 2: I know there's no one stronger than him and you
36:45
Speaker 2: can't lose being on his side.
36:47
Speaker 1: So against Let's suppose that you're sitting with someone right
36:52
Speaker 1: now who is cynical about Christ. And by the way,
36:56
Speaker 1: that is sort of the prevailing attitude about Christ. Okay,
37:01
Speaker 1: some people have the born again experience and it's okay
37:04
Speaker 1: for them, but I don't need it. And then you
37:08
Speaker 1: look at them and you say, well, listen, you've just
37:10
Speaker 1: been telling me about this, this and this and your
37:12
Speaker 1: life that some negative stuff, and I'm offering you the solution.
37:19
Speaker 1: And the guy says, uh no, I don't need that stuff.
37:23
Speaker 1: How do you deal with that from your perspective?
37:27
Speaker 2: Well, I would deal with that the way I the
37:30
Speaker 2: way I dealt with it, because your intellect will soon
37:34
Speaker 2: wear out your youth of a young man, just like
37:38
Speaker 2: it says the lions, the young lions run and they
37:40
Speaker 2: get tired. Your youth will wear out, your intellect will
37:44
Speaker 2: wear out, and sooner or later, you'll you'll be you'll
37:47
Speaker 2: be in possession of a situation that is overwhelming and
37:52
Speaker 2: beyond your control. And like they said, you know, there's
37:55
Speaker 2: no atheists in a fox hole?
37:57
Speaker 1: How true?
37:59
Speaker 2: That's right? And God will put you there and give
38:03
Speaker 2: you the opportunity to yell out and cry out to Him.
38:07
Speaker 2: And most people I would say that I've talked to
38:12
Speaker 2: they respond to that, And it might not be for
38:15
Speaker 2: years later, because you know, we're just farmers for so
38:18
Speaker 2: in the seeds or so in the seeds, you know,
38:20
Speaker 2: and something you say today might not it might hit
38:23
Speaker 2: them twenty five years from now. But to all the
38:26
Speaker 2: things that you rely on and lean upon like a chair,
38:30
Speaker 2: and all that, your intellect, your strength, your all of
38:33
Speaker 2: those will soon fade and disappear, and you will find
38:36
Speaker 2: yourself in a situation that your intellect, your strength, your
38:43
Speaker 2: ability to negotiate life will be beyond your comprehension, you know,
38:49
Speaker 2: And that is a guarantee because everybody is placed in
38:52
Speaker 2: that situation, because that's where Christ comes in. He shows
38:56
Speaker 2: you your humanity and your weakness because we are strong
39:01
Speaker 2: in Him. You know everything that we have will fail
39:05
Speaker 2: and will fade, and people seem to gravitate. They understand
39:09
Speaker 2: that precept.
39:11
Speaker 1: They knew indeed. And your story begins with a very
39:15
Speaker 1: dark side. And you mentioned our mutual friend La Marzouli,
39:19
Speaker 1: and La has written and produced DVDs, and we've interviewed
39:24
Speaker 1: him many times. And La understands the reality of the
39:29
Speaker 1: dark side, the power of it. And he's interviewed people,
39:33
Speaker 1: in some cases much who have a story much like yours,
39:38
Speaker 1: and he strives to bring that out into the public
39:43
Speaker 1: where it can be understood and people can benefit from
39:46
Speaker 1: some of the dark stories that occur, the backstories, if
39:50
Speaker 1: you will, and the things you really don't hear in church,
39:53
Speaker 1: if you know what I mean. But I think your
39:56
Speaker 1: testimony is going to reach a lot of people.
40:00
Speaker 2: I hope so, because I finally told the Lord that
40:03
Speaker 2: I will be your poster boy.
40:07
Speaker 1: Very good. I love it. I love it. So where
40:12
Speaker 1: do you think your life's going to take you from here?
40:14
Speaker 1: Do you study study Bible prophecy for example? And are
40:18
Speaker 1: you looking for the Lord's return? And how do you
40:22
Speaker 1: deal with all of the tumult in today's society and
40:28
Speaker 1: the strangeness the things that are happening.
40:31
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I have such joy. I mean, if
40:34
Speaker 2: that's most people that meet me know that I have
40:38
Speaker 2: a lot of joy, and that only comes from being
40:42
Speaker 2: from so far on the left hand side in the
40:45
Speaker 2: darkness that I have so much more to be grateful for.
40:49
Speaker 2: You know, I have seen the pit. I have been
40:52
Speaker 2: in the pit, and now that I've been raised from it,
40:55
Speaker 2: I'm so much more grateful. You know. The Bible tells
40:58
Speaker 2: us that to him that has much to be forgiven
41:02
Speaker 2: is much grateful. And that's me. And I'm excited for
41:08
Speaker 2: what's going on in the world. I'm excited that Jesus
41:11
Speaker 2: is coming back. I have no fear. I have no
41:14
Speaker 2: fear of the future. I have no fear of dying.
41:17
Speaker 2: I have no fear of any of those things, you know,
41:20
Speaker 2: and my hope is living in my heart. I am
41:24
Speaker 2: the living testimony of Jesus Christ and what he does
41:29
Speaker 2: with men. So I have no fear. And I love
41:33
Speaker 2: to tell people that. You know, I bet you anything,
41:37
Speaker 2: you have tons of fears. You're uneasy about where this
41:41
Speaker 2: world in life is going well.
41:43
Speaker 1: You speak of truth there as we look at the
41:45
Speaker 1: world today, international politics, international economies, artificial intelligence, all kinds
41:55
Speaker 1: of scientific stratagems, you know, that threaten to take over
41:58
Speaker 1: society and totally change the lives that we've had up
42:04
Speaker 1: to now, basically in the name of controlling the planet.
42:10
Speaker 1: And they offer the solution, Oh, if we can control
42:13
Speaker 1: the planet, we'll just have peace and prosperity and everybody
42:17
Speaker 1: will be happy. And so and you and I look
42:19
Speaker 1: at what's happening, and then we read Bible prophecy and
42:23
Speaker 1: we say, oh, all this looks entirely too familiar to me,
42:27
Speaker 1: you know, And yet what you said really resounds with me.
42:33
Speaker 1: You have no fear, and you just said that very plainly,
42:37
Speaker 1: You who have come out of a life of fear. Yes,
42:42
Speaker 1: that's amazing.
42:44
Speaker 2: And I had great fear. I couldn't even talk on
42:46
Speaker 2: the phone, you know, I couldn't even talk on the phone.
42:49
Speaker 2: But you know, Gary, I live by this motto that
42:52
Speaker 2: if God is for me, who can be against me?
42:55
Speaker 2: So I don't fear death. I don't fear man, you know,
42:59
Speaker 2: I fear God. And that's the beginning of understanding. And
43:02
Speaker 2: once we understand that God is for you, no one
43:06
Speaker 2: can be against you. So what is there why so
43:09
Speaker 2: downcast my soul? You know, the future looks bright.
43:14
Speaker 1: I love your message and I am going to be
43:17
Speaker 1: praying for you that He'll send many people your way
43:21
Speaker 1: who can hear your story, because I think your story,
43:25
Speaker 1: you know, coming out of absolute darkness into the light
43:30
Speaker 1: in the back of a bust. Pardon me, but I
43:33
Speaker 1: just have to smile at that. Even though it was
43:36
Speaker 1: a horrific moment in your life, it's a joy to
43:42
Speaker 1: see that, that moment of change. And I'm really glad
43:45
Speaker 1: you shared that with us today.
43:48
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
43:51
Speaker 2: There's never a time where, in fact, I haven't given
43:53
Speaker 2: my testimony for twenty or thirty years because I didn't
43:57
Speaker 2: think anybody cared.
43:59
Speaker 1: Oh I believe man cared. People care.
44:03
Speaker 2: People started telling me, you know, you've got a paul
44:05
Speaker 2: A Tarsus type of testimony. I said, really, really, okay,
44:10
Speaker 2: So okay, I'll tell people then, you know, I mean
44:13
Speaker 2: I was an eyewitness to it. I was there, and
44:16
Speaker 2: I'll tell you you know, I've never been the same
44:19
Speaker 2: since that day. You know, one minute I was one
44:22
Speaker 2: man the next minute, I was a different man, a
44:25
Speaker 2: new creation. I didn't know what kind of creation, but
44:28
Speaker 2: as I found out, everything was confirmed for me, which
44:32
Speaker 2: is the fascinating thing, because I would have never accepted
44:35
Speaker 2: another man's opinion telling me this is what you need
44:38
Speaker 2: to do. I would have never accepted that, you know.
44:41
Speaker 2: So God said, okay, I'm going to deal with you myself,
44:44
Speaker 2: and I'm going to do this. So and I'm glad
44:47
Speaker 2: he did well.
44:48
Speaker 1: Michael. May the Lord speed your work and open doors
44:54
Speaker 1: for you to bring a resounding testimony to many other people.
45:00
Speaker 1: And it's been great talking to you, and praise the Lord. Indeed,
45:04
Speaker 1: Michael Gogliardi, did I get that right? And I help
45:10
Speaker 1: talk to you again soon sometime.
45:12
Speaker 2: Thank you, Gary, thank you so much.
45:14
Speaker 3: So bye greetings from the Prophecy Watchers podcast. I'm Karen
45:19
Speaker 3: and I have a great suggestion that will put you
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Speaker 3: on the path to be a Bible prophecy expert. Have
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