Latest / The Academic Coaching Podcast / Why Asking for Help Is the Real EF Skill | Seth Perler

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Why Asking for Help Is the Real EF Skill | Seth Perler · The Academic Coaching Podcast

• 0:00
  Seth: My inner critic for myself used to say,"I am a lazy failure." One my keys to life and still to this day, was learning to ask for help and not give a shit.
• 0:12
  Seth: Is this a non-cussing podcast, Gretchen?
• 0:14
  Gretchen: Oh, I think no shit can work.
• 0:17
  Gretchen: I mean, generally speaking, there are other words we may not wanna say on YouTube, but let's say that.
• 0:28
  Gretchen: All right.
• 0:28
  Gretchen: Welcome to the Academic Coaching Podcast, everyone, brought to you by the Anti-Boring Learning Lab.
• 0:35
  Gretchen: I am your lovely host, Gretchen Wegner, and this is the show where we dig into the craft of coaching students, from study skills to executive function strategies and the occasional business tip, for those of you in private practice.
• 0:49
  Gretchen: Today's guest, who you see right here, being my Vanna White, he has spent years building one of the biggest gathering places in the executive function world, and through it all, he's held onto something that I don't take for granted and I hope none of you do either, which is that he has a genuine, palpable love for neurodivergent students and the parents raising them.
• 1:13
  Gretchen: It's really touching to behold, Seth.
• 1:16
  Gretchen: Aw.
• 1:16
  Gretchen: So speaking of Seth, this is Seth Perler, who is an executive function coach and the creator of TEFOS, the Executive Function Online Summit, and I'm so excited we get to chat with you today, Seth.
• 1:31
  Seth: Good introduction, Gretchen.
• 1:33
  Seth: Well done.
• 1:34
  Gretchen: Thank you.
• 1:34
  Gretchen: Thank you.
• 1:36
  Gretchen: So I am honored to have been a guest at TEFOS from the very beginning, and I can't believe that you're coming up on eight years having done this huge summit.
• 1:50
  Seth: Yeah.
• 1:51
  Seth: Time flies.
• 1:52
  Seth: Life is a blip.
• 1:54
  Gretchen: It is.
• 1:54
  Gretchen: We were both- It's- joking about our grays.
• 1:57
  Gretchen: We didn't have- Yeah, yeah grays in our first videos.
• 2:00
  Seth: Yep.
• 2:02
  Seth: Eight years ago, wasn't so gray.
• 2:04
  Seth: Yeah, we, you and I have both been through a lot in eight years, and it's so cool- We have to see you and all, and all these different people I've gotten to know over the years, how their careers have changed and what they've been through in their personal lives and, and then how their, um, their businesses or services or the way that they serve kids has changed along with how the world has changed.
• 2:28
  Seth: So it's been a- Oh, my gosh really interesting eight years.
• 2:31
  Gretchen: Oh, that's such a good point, that when you started...
• 2:34
  Gretchen: So what year did you start?
• 2:36
  Seth: 2019, which s- to me, doesn't sound like that long ago.
• 2:41
  Seth: Wait, was it 2019?
• 2:41
  Seth: Right.
• 2:42
  Seth: No, I think it was- Yeah, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26.
• 2:47
  Gretchen: 26.
• 2:47
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 2:47
  Gretchen: Okay.
• 2:47
  Seth: So 19, and it's, that sounds, like, not very far away.
• 2:50
  Seth: No.
• 2:50
  Seth: But that is, like, eons ago in the digital- Eons world.
• 2:54
  Gretchen: And w- in, in the digital world, and then we've had a big pandemic that jostled- A pre-pandemic,
• 3:00
  Seth: yeah
• 3:00
  Gretchen: up everything in education and beyond.
• 3:02
  Gretchen: Yep.
• 3:03
  Gretchen: So you've really been through it.
• 3:06
  Gretchen: Okay.
• 3:06
  Gretchen: And I do wanna talk about what you've noticed over the years.
• 3:10
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 3:10
  Gretchen: But first I wanna zoom back,'cause some people may not know you at all, and so they don't know that you identify as a recovering lazy failure of a student, I think.
• 3:19
  Gretchen: Mm.
• 3:19
  Gretchen: Did I see that quote somewhere?
• 3:20
  Gretchen: Yeah,
• 3:20
  Seth: yeah,
• 3:21
  Gretchen: yeah.
• 3:21
  Seth: Yeah.
• 3:21
  Gretchen: Will you explain what
• 3:23
  Seth: that means?
• 3:23
  Seth: Not AI.
• 3:24
  Seth: I wrote that.
• 3:24
  Seth: We were talking about that before.
• 3:26
  Seth: Yeah, I write my own stuff.
• 3:28
  Seth: Um, yeah, recovering lazy failure of a student.
• 3:32
  Seth: I think I, I had heard people throw around the- this joke, like they'll say recovering Catholic.
• 3:36
  Seth: I think I heard people say that- Yeah many years ago, and-
• 3:39
  Gretchen: Yes
• 3:40
  Seth: I thought that was kind of an interesting way to frame things and, um...
• 3:43
  Seth: But rec- uh, that's where I got that thought, but it's like recovering lazy failure of a student.
• 3:48
  Seth: So my inner critic for myself used to say,"I am a lazy failure." That's what I would tell my parents to get them off my back.
• 3:55
  Seth: That's what I would tell myself.
• 3:57
  Seth: So one of the things that happens to a lot of us neurodivergent people with, uh, ADHD or executive function challenges or 2E people, or these, just people who don't fit in the box, is that we experience a lot of shame.
• 4:08
  Seth: Yeah.
• 4:09
  Seth: We cannot fit in the box.
• 4:10
  Seth: We try, and, and it is, uh, extremely painful to hu- human being on very deep levels.
• 4:18
  Seth: Well, part of the reason for that is, is that we can internalize messages.
• 4:22
  Seth: So one of the messages that I internalized is,"I'm lazy, and I'm a failure." Two messages.
• 4:27
  Seth: "I'm, I'm lazy, and I'm a failure." The word fail, you know?
• 4:31
  Seth: I just can't do it.
• 4:32
  Seth: It's too much.
• 4:33
  Seth: I can't do anything right.
• 4:34
  Seth: Like, I, I really didn't know, um, how to do what was being asked of me in the world, and I was w- trying my best.
• 4:43
  Seth: Um, but what happens to a lot of us is we get to a point where we're trying our best, and we get to a point where it's like,"Why even try?
• 4:51
  Seth: I know that I cannot meet the expectations of this teacher or this school or this parent or this setting or this sports group or this whatever." Um, and yeah.
• 5:02
  Seth: Yeah.
• 5:02
  Seth: So I internalized I'm just a lazy failure.
• 5:05
  Seth: It was very hopeless.
• 5:06
  Seth: Like, I, I didn't see my life going anywhere.
• 5:09
  Seth: Uh, and yeah, that's that.
• 5:12
  Seth: So I'm a recovering lazy failure, yeah.
• 5:14
  Gretchen: How long did that story last in your life?
• 5:18
  Gretchen: And I, I ask because I'm about...
• 5:20
  Gretchen: When you ans- after you answer, I'm about to tell a story that, uh, from, about myself where it lasted way longer than I ever would wish for anybody.
• 5:27
  Gretchen: But I'm curious about you.
• 5:30
  Seth: For me, it was until I was 22.
• 5:33
  Seth: And the reason I'm sharing it in terms of an age is because I remember what was going on.
• 5:38
  Seth: So, um, it probably started, I don't know, in, like, second or third grade.
• 5:44
  Seth: No, no shit.
• 5:45
  Seth: Wow.
• 5:45
  Seth: Second or third grade.
• 5:46
  Seth: Wow.
• 5:47
  Seth: Is this a non-cussing podcast, Gretchen?
• 5:48
  Gretchen: Oh, I think no shit can work.
• 5:51
  Gretchen: I mean, generally speaking, there are other words we may not- wanna say on YouTube, but let's say that.
• 5:56
  Seth: Okay.
• 5:56
  Gretchen: Okay.
• 5:57
  Seth: So, um, second or third grade, yeah, but, uh, you know, it's just, I...
• 6:02
  Seth: First grade I started getting progress reports, like, you know, daydreams, does not try, needs to apply himself.
• 6:08
  Seth: And so I really started feeling bad about myself with some of this stuff early on.
• 6:15
  Seth: Uh, and then, yeah, when I was 22, I really started changing.
• 6:20
  Seth: I started executive function coaching myself, but I didn't, I didn't know I was doing coaching.
• 6:23
  Seth: Did you really?
• 6:25
  Seth: Essentially.
• 6:26
  Seth: Essentially, I basically was at a point in my life when I knew that if my life kept going in the direction that it, it had been going on this downward spiral, that I would not be able to do anything with my life.
• 6:38
  Seth: Oh.
• 6:39
  Seth: And when I say hopeless, I'm not gonna go into all the details of that, but- Okay I'll just say for a lot of your listeners have been there- Mm-hmm as hopeless as you can be.
• 6:47
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 6:47
  Seth: I'll say it that way.
• 6:48
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 6:49
  Seth: And, um, at that point in my life, I got to a point where I was like,"I am going to do anything and everything I can possibly do to see if I can, quote, turn my life around, to see if it can stop this downward spiral and make something of my life." So that, that's what happened then.
• 7:10
  Seth: And when that happened, my, uh, the inner cr- it's not that the inner critic of lazy failure stopped, because that's not how the brain works.
• 7:19
  Seth: That's not how neurons and neural pathways work when you've had a message ingrained in your brain that you've worked very hard to preserve for many years.
• 7:27
  Seth: Doesn't just vanish.
• 7:29
  Seth: But I, at, but I didn't, I didn't, um, listen to that voice.
• 7:37
  Seth: Mm.
• 7:37
  Seth: The volume knob went from 11- Mm on lazy failure to three or four, and then when I would hear it, it would, it, it would fortunately start to get drowned out by more positive messages.
• 7:49
  Seth: Don't give up.
• 7:50
  Seth: You can do this.
• 7:51
  Seth: Uh, at, by that time, one my keys to life at that point in my life, at 22, and still to this day, but one of my keys to life and change was learning to ask for help and not give a shit.
• 8:05
  Seth: I'll say shit there.
• 8:06
  Seth: Ah.
• 8:06
  Seth: Like, to be like- Uh-huh.
• 8:07
  Seth: Yeah I don't care.
• 8:08
  Seth: If I'm gonna figure this out, I don't have the tools, I don't have the skills, I don't know how to do life.
• 8:13
  Seth: Yeah.
• 8:13
  Seth: I don't know how to do life.
• 8:14
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 8:15
  Seth: I know how, how to push people away from me.
• 8:17
  Seth: I know how to not keep friends.
• 8:19
  Seth: I know how to push my family away.
• 8:20
  Seth: I know how to be dishonest with pe- other people, be- how to be dishonest with myself.
• 8:25
  Seth: I know how to try to make things look l- like a chameleon, like everything's going fine with me on the outside, when on the inside I'm just depressed and anxious and suffering.
• 8:34
  Seth: Yeah.
• 8:34
  Seth: And, and to live, like, feeling like a fake and, um, all this stuff.
• 8:40
  Seth: Uh, definitely an imposter syndrome.
• 8:42
  Seth: Like, I didn't have life figured out.
• 8:43
  Seth: But at, at that point, I was like, I am g- I know other people seem to have figured it out, and I would ask anyone and everyone for help with anything to everything.
• 8:53
  Seth: So much So, well, I'll, maybe I'll get to that later, maybe not.
• 8:57
  Gretchen: Um- Well, the, this, your story, I think, I hope- Mm-hmm any parents listening right now, it gives them so much hope.
• 9:04
  Gretchen: 'Cause look, you went from that, which they are likely seeing in many of their neurodivergent kiddos, to-
• 9:10
  Seth: Failing out of two colleges, almost failing out of high school, and how I felt about m- myself and my mental health, yeah, to, to-
• 9:17
  Gretchen: To having, as I said in the intro, I, I said one of, but I'm sure it's the largest gathering for executive function families and professionals in the known universe.
• 9:30
  Gretchen: Let's call it that.
• 9:32
  Seth: In the known universe.
• 9:35
  Gretchen: So how did you go from that state to the start of TFOS?
• 9:41
  Gretchen: I, that, that, I know there's a lot of time there, and see if you can make it go fast with the, the, the jumps, you know, the stopping points along the way,'cause I really wanna- Yeah spend time on TFOS, but...
• 9:52
  Seth: Yeah, I mean, I, I, when I say asking for help, I mean asking for help.
• 9:57
  Seth: Like, that- Mm-hmm became very core in my life.
• 10:00
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 10:00
  Seth: And again, I didn't have an ADHD coach or a executive function coach.
• 10:04
  Seth: I don't even know if ADHD coaches existed at the time, but I did have multiple therapists throughout the years, um, uh, different types of support groups, books.
• 10:14
  Seth: I stuck my head in every book, cassette- these things called cassette tapes.
• 10:18
  Seth: Do you remember these, Gretchen?
• 10:20
  Gretchen: I do remember them.
• 10:21
  Seth: Books on tape.
• 10:22
  Seth: I still have one or
• 10:22
  Gretchen: two.
• 10:23
  Seth: Um, so, you know, I just immersed myself in, once I made a decision to sort of try to see if I could do something with my life, I immersed myself in anything and everything that I could do.
• 10:36
  Seth: That includes- Yeah meditation, that includes, like, different types of sports or things that I thought I would hate.
• 10:43
  Seth: I'm not much of a sporty person.
• 10:45
  Seth: I was more of a, you know, like, um,
• 10:49
  Gretchen: I,
• 10:49
  Seth: like- Hiker, camper person like you, hiker.
• 10:50
  Seth: Yeah.
• 10:51
  Seth: Yeah.
• 10:51
  Gretchen: That's one, one overlap we have.
• 10:53
  Seth: Yeah Um, so, you know, but I would try anything.
• 10:59
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 10:59
  Seth: And when I eventually went back to college, uh, and had decided I wanted to be a teacher, like, I went to all the office hours.
• 11:07
  Seth: I mean, I knew I would fail if I didn't.
• 11:08
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 11:09
  Seth: Like, it's not like I'm like, uh, like turn this corner in such a way where I'm like,"Oh, I'm so willing, I'm so motivated." No.
• 11:17
  Seth: Like, everything was a struggle.
• 11:19
  Seth: I worked 10 hard- 10 times harder than everyone in my classes when I went back to college.
• 11:23
  Seth: I mean, I went to a community college'cause I had failed out of the two colleges to, like, get my grades back up to go to Indiana University at the time.
• 11:31
  Seth: And so I, like, was just, uh...
• 11:36
  Seth: I learned to ask for help.
• 11:37
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 11:38
  Seth: And when I, when you ask for help, and I- I'm telling you with everything.
• 11:44
  Seth: Like, even to the point where, you know, I was having a talk with a parent about, um, jobs and summer jobs and stuff like that lately, and that their kid wants a job but they don't have the executive function skills to do the things to get the job.
• 11:58
  Seth: Like, at the time, like, I mean, I was just tenacious.
• 12:01
  Seth: If I wanted a job, I would go into the place and not just turn in the application, but I would bug them to death to be like,"How does someone get a job here?" I, it's, and that's the right question to ask
• 12:13
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 12:13
  Gretchen: Yeah
• 12:14
  Seth: instead of just handing in an application, like being like,"What does it take to get the job here?" I like what y'all are doing.
• 12:20
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 12:20
  Gretchen: Like- I love that as a qu- a sentence starter, just how does a person fill in the blank for what you want?
• 12:27
  Seth: It, exactly.
• 12:28
  Seth: At that establishment.
• 12:29
  Seth: That's what asking- Yeah for help is.
• 12:30
  Seth: Yeah.
• 12:30
  Gretchen: That's brilliant.
• 12:31
  Gretchen: Um.
• 12:31
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 12:32
  Seth: Go to the hardware store,"How do you fix this type of thing?" Yeah.
• 12:34
  Seth: You know, go, uh, you use it in all contexts.
• 12:36
  Seth: You know, in basketball, how do you shoot a free throw?
• 12:38
  Seth: Yeah.
• 12:39
  Seth: Like, asking people who know how to do stuff.
• 12:42
  Seth: And but I grew up, you know, with that imposter syndrome and, and feeling like asking for help was not okay.
• 12:47
  Seth: It meant that I'm broken, it meant that I'm bad, it meant that- Yeah I, I'm unworthy.
• 12:51
  Seth: All the, all those deep things that were in there that I didn't understand.
• 12:55
  Seth: So, you know, I proceed to, um, start working with kids, fall in love with working with kids.
• 13:01
  Seth: I literally, in Indianapolis, was driving around a road called Spring Mill Road one day, and I was leaving my job.
• 13:08
  Seth: I had long hair at the time flying out the window, driving this little Mazda stick shift, and at the time smoking a cigarette.
• 13:14
  Seth: So I got my stick shift, my cigarette- my hair blowing around in the wind, and I had just been working with kids, and probably not good to be, but I wasn't smoking at the school, but whatever.
• 13:23
  Seth: I'm leaving, and I have this smile plastered on my face, and I'd been working there for about six months with kids.
• 13:29
  Seth: And I was like,"Every day I leave this job, I'm happy."
• 13:34
  Gretchen: Mm.
• 13:35
  Seth: And I, that moment I was like,"This is what I'm gonna do- Mm the rest of my life- Mm is serve kids." Mm-hmm.
• 13:40
  Seth: So then I started, uh, you know, I didn't know there were other things you could do.
• 13:43
  Seth: I was just like, that means you become a teacher.
• 13:45
  Seth: Right.
• 13:45
  Seth: But now I know- Same here there's a million ways- Yeah to serve kids, and I will serve kids till the day I die.
• 13:50
  Seth: That's what, what I love.
• 13:52
  Seth: It's what I believe in.
• 13:53
  Seth: It's what matters to me.
• 13:54
  Seth: Um, and m- and eventually went back to school and, uh, was asked to speak at Indiana University to represent my graduating class.
• 14:03
  Gretchen: Oh, wow.
• 14:04
  Seth: Now, I had failed, you know, at-
• 14:06
  Gretchen: Yeah
• 14:06
  Seth: out of the two colleges, and they asked me to speak.
• 14:09
  Seth: And, um, so it, it was, um...
• 14:13
  Seth: And I'll tell you why they asked me to speak also.
• 14:16
  Seth: Here's a pro tip for you, and for those of you who have executive function struggles.
• 14:20
  Seth: When I said I asked for help, and I, I mean I asked for help, that education office at the School of Education at Indiana University, every person in that office knew me.
• 14:30
  Gretchen: Knew
• 14:30
  Seth: you.
• 14:30
  Seth: Yeah.
• 14:30
  Seth: The dean, I had sat with the dean in the office multiple times.
• 14:33
  Seth: Mm.
• 14:33
  Seth: But my silly brain was just like,"Oh, this is the, uh, the, the most important person here.
• 14:40
  Seth: They must know a lot of things." And he, he was a, a really cool guy, but I was like,"I want to sit in that guy's office and pick his brain," you know?
• 14:48
  Seth: But I was friends with the secretaries.
• 14:50
  Seth: I would say hi to them all the time.
• 14:51
  Seth: I knew all of them by name.
• 14:53
  Seth: I knew the people down these- Mm random weird hallways at Indiana University.
• 14:57
  Seth: I went in all those rooms, poked my nose in and said,"Who are you?
• 15:02
  Seth: What do you do?
• 15:02
  Seth: How can you help me?" Like, I just was like,"I want to be a good teacher, and I will get nuggets from anyone and every-" And that, you know, and for those of you that are not extroverted like I am, there's still your workarounds for that.
• 15:17
  Seth: So yes, I will say that for me that is, you know, one of my, um, uh, it w- strengths that sometimes as a kid did not look like a strength, but in this context, being able to ask for help, you know.
• 15:30
  Seth: So, so anyhow, I start down that path and I am committed to serving kids.
• 15:35
  Seth: I taught for 12 years, and then I learned about executive function.
• 15:39
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 15:40
  Seth: And I always like complicated kids.
• 15:42
  Seth: I was that kid in school who was struggling a- and couldn't figure it out.
• 15:47
  Seth: And when I had kids in my classroom, I really understood them, and I would work with teachers sometimes who didn't get these kids.
• 15:53
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 15:53
  Seth: And that would really anger me, because you watch a teacher, like, say little micro shameful things to kids and stuff.
• 16:01
  Seth: Like, um, uh,"I just said that to the whole class." Like, something like- Mm that small for a kid like me or these, you know, kids I saw, like, can be really, really deeply, deeply, deeply painful and shameful and can affect their whole day and affect how they feel around their friends at recess and all, because it's, it's in- So I would see some of that stuff, but m- most teachers are awesome.
• 16:27
  Seth: But I, uh, I, uh, I didn't like certain things about certain schools that were super in the box, and the way that curriculum is looked at as this, like, step-by-step thing.
• 16:38
  Seth: But you have these little human beings that you are trying to help them find who they are, and you're going through something super prescriptive.
• 16:47
  Seth: It's the, um, and the things, and I learned as a teacher that things can look really progressive, but they may not be, or the, in whoever's hands they're in.
• 16:57
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 16:57
  Seth: At one point I, uh, helped a school pick a math curriculum, and we ended up going, uh, going with, uh, Singapore Math.
• 17:07
  Seth: And the reason I chose that one, I l- had looked at all these, uh, different programs, maybe, I don't know, 20 or 30 programs.
• 17:16
  Seth: That was the most boring, linear one of all.
• 17:21
  Seth: But the reason I loved it is because for me as a creative teacher, as an artist teacher, like, that for me is a, a great jumping off point.
• 17:29
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 17:29
  Seth: It gives extreme boring structure.
• 17:32
  Seth: But for, like, someone like me, it's like,"Okay, now I can totally- Right play with that."
• 17:38
  Gretchen: Right.
• 17:38
  Gretchen: And we need structure,'cause I'm similar.
• 17:41
  Gretchen: And so we need some kind of a structure to keep us on target with students, and then we're gonna play all around it.
• 17:46
  Gretchen: I mean, that's what anti-boring is to me.
• 17:50
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 17:50
  Gretchen: But the structure keeps it- Mm so that a student can still track.
• 17:54
  Seth: But when a, a newer teacher, a green teacher comes in and depends on that structure and isn't empowered to-
• 18:01
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm
• 18:02
  Seth: use it as a jumping off point, and they learn in their career that you're supposed to just follow the directions.
• 18:07
  Seth: Mm.
• 18:07
  Seth: No, you are not.
• 18:09
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 18:09
  Seth: You are supposed to be a master of the content that you're teaching eventually.
• 18:13
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 18:13
  Seth: And, uh, that, that structure really is just training wheels for you.
• 18:17
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 18:18
  Seth: Um, you, you, you are the artist.
• 18:20
  Seth: The teacher is the artist.
• 18:21
  Seth: So anyhow, I taught for a long time and found out about this executive function thing, and I was like,"Why is nobody talking about this?" So in 2010, I left teaching and I started doing executive function coaching.
• 18:32
  Seth: There was no such thing as an executive function coach.
• 18:34
  Seth: People weren't really using YouTube much at the time, and podcasts, people were like,"Why would you listen to a podcast?" Like, do you remember those
• 18:42
  Gretchen: days?
• 18:42
  Seth: Yes,
• 18:42
  Gretchen: I do.
• 18:43
  Gretchen: Like- Now everybody, including myself, has one.
• 18:46
  Seth: And I, I knew, and there was really n- no educators, like, on YouTube or do- it just wasn't, YouTube wasn't a type of thing where Or it was just beginning to be that type of thing.
• 18:57
  Seth: But, but I knew, I knew that I like to read blogs, if you remember the blogs.
• 19:04
  Seth: Zen Habits was one of'em.
• 19:06
  Gretchen: Zen Habits, totally.
• 19:08
  Seth: A- and I liked podcasts and I liked YouTube, so I was like,"Okay, I'm gonna make some YouTube videos." I would put my cellphone at the time on a, on an old broken tripod with, uh, rubber bands.
• 19:26
  Gretchen: Yep.
• 19:26
  Seth: And that's how I made my first- Yeah YouTube videos.
• 19:29
  Seth: Yeah.
• 19:29
  Seth: And I just But I think one of the things for anybody listening, one of the things for any of the professionals listening is that- I always, always, always then and now come from a heart of service first before anything and everything.
• 19:46
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 19:46
  Seth: "Oh, you should do YouTube videos this way, or advertise this way, or your competitors are both..." Uh, I'm like, I have a no competition clause.
• 19:54
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 19:54
  Seth: So Gretchen is not my competition.
• 19:56
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 19:56
  Seth: I think- Mm-hmm competition is stupid.
• 19:58
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 19:59
  Seth: It's a frame.
• 20:00
  Seth: I don't have competition.
• 20:01
  Seth: We're all trying to help kids.
• 20:03
  Seth: Yeah.
• 20:03
  Seth: That's my frame.
• 20:04
  Seth: But not o- that's not BS, that is my frame.
• 20:07
  Seth: I'm not competing against you.
• 20:09
  Seth: We're trying to help kids.
• 20:10
  Seth: Like, there's no scarcity here.
• 20:12
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 20:12
  Seth: Just do your job.
• 20:13
  Seth: Just serve from your heart.
• 20:14
  Seth: And-
• 20:15
  Gretchen: Yeah
• 20:15
  Seth: so I'm very glad that when I started changing my, changing my life, I had mentors, uh, people that helped me learn about serving, about giving, about generosity.
• 20:24
  Seth: One big one for me was Seth Godin.
• 20:27
  Seth: Uh, and if- Mm-hmm anybody wants to follow his blog, which I- believe he still blogs all the time.
• 20:33
  Gretchen: He does.
• 20:33
  Gretchen: He keeps them- But- nice and short too.
• 20:34
  Gretchen: Sometimes I- Yeah think about him when I, mine are so long, and I'm like,"Oh, I need to be- Mm-hmm more like Seth." But no, I'm serving the way I can serve, which is with lots of words.
• 20:44
  Seth: Well, I read hi- his stuff every day of my life for God knows how many years.
• 20:49
  Seth: And the, so there were some big, um, people that were mentors, whether they knew it or not, and some that were literal mentors, but I learned to serve.
• 20:57
  Seth: I learned that that's where the magic in life is.
• 20:58
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 20:59
  Seth: That's a big focus of mine still.
• 21:02
  Seth: Um, so then I'm doing, you know, 2010 I start doing the coaching.
• 21:07
  Seth: I have no business.
• 21:08
  Seth: I have two clients-
• 21:09
  Gretchen: Mm
• 21:09
  Seth: in, like, eight months and I'm like,"If I don't figure this out, I'm done." I called every therapist in Boulder, Colorado.
• 21:18
  Seth: There was some booklet that had, like, lists and lists of pages of therapists, and I called all of them and, uh, or everyone I could.
• 21:28
  Seth: I- that book was so marked up w- with notes and stuff.
• 21:32
  Seth: And, you know, I called about 150 therapists.
• 21:34
  Gretchen: Wait, hold, hold up.
• 21:35
  Gretchen: Why were you calling them?
• 21:36
  Gretchen: For your own mental health or to see if they had referrals?
• 21:39
  Gretchen: Oh,
• 21:39
  Seth: sorry.
• 21:39
  Seth: Thank you.
• 21:40
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 21:40
  Gretchen: Yes.
• 21:41
  Seth: No.
• 21:41
  Seth: Uh, so basically, I had a script, it was a paragraph long, and at the time you'd leave voicemails for people.
• 21:48
  Seth: I'm calling them.
• 21:49
  Seth: I'd say,"Hey, my name's Seth Perler.
• 21:51
  Seth: I'm an executive function coach here in Boulder.
• 21:53
  Seth: I would love to, uh, meet you for lunch.
• 21:55
  Seth: I noticed that you specialize in adolescent therapy," whatever.
• 21:59
  Seth: Um,"Let's grab lunch sometime." And so I call these, whatever, 150 or so people.
• 22:04
  Seth: I got about 30 or 40 of them I ended up meeting.
• 22:09
  Gretchen: Yeah,
• 22:09
  Seth: that's- And the, the rest just-
• 22:10
  Gretchen: awesome.
• 22:10
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 22:11
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 22:12
  Seth: So go...
• 22:13
  Seth: There was a coffee shop called Laughing Goat at the time.
• 22:15
  Seth: We'd go meet up for coffee there a lot or something, and sit down with the person.
• 22:20
  Seth: Some of these people I still know to this day.
• 22:22
  Seth: Now, out of that 30 or 40, maybe 10 or 11 of them started referring me, and I did not go in with asking for referrals.
• 22:31
  Seth: I went in with saying, um,"I just wanna see who they are." I don't remember where I got that frame from, but m- m- Mm.
• 22:39
  Seth: But I went in with a heart of, I wanna be interested in them.
• 22:44
  Seth: And be curious about them and just ask- Mm-hmm them about their practice.
• 22:49
  Seth: So, uh, we'd sit down and whatever, and then, um, I just tried to get to know them and tell them what I do, and I didn't do anything.
• 22:56
  Seth: I had two clients.
• 22:58
  Seth: But I would use my imposter syndrome to say what I was trying to do.
• 23:03
  Seth: And, uh, and, um, about 10 or 11 of them started referring me, and about three of them started referring me all the time.
• 23:12
  Seth: It turned out that those were neuropsychs.
• 23:14
  Seth: Oh.
• 23:14
  Seth: I would not have known that three or four people out of- Aha 150 without making those- Yeah 150 calls.
• 23:21
  Seth: That for me at the time, and it wouldn't be now, but at the time, that was one of my best, uh, r- ways to get great clients was through neuropsychs.
• 23:32
  Seth: Yeah.
• 23:32
  Seth: So-
• 23:33
  Gretchen: Yeah uh, and then- And question there, since we went- Mm since we went down the business route, just a follow-up question.
• 23:39
  Gretchen: Um, how many strong referral partners do you think an academic or executive function coach needs to create, you know, to, to kind of have a steady flow of clients?
• 23:51
  Seth: I want to give you a good, uh, answer because, um, I know that that's what people want, a concrete answer, but I don't think like that.
• 24:01
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 24:01
  Seth: And, and this kind of drives my team nuts because they're all very data-driven people, and I'm just- Yeah like, you know- Yeah throw spaghetti at a wall type person.
• 24:10
  Seth: I don't think like that.
• 24:11
  Gretchen: Okay.
• 24:11
  Seth: I just put my energy out there and let go.
• 24:13
  Seth: I really do-
• 24:14
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm
• 24:14
  Seth: do that.
• 24:15
  Seth: But I know you need a concrete answer.
• 24:18
  Seth: Um, it depends on who, who, you know, like, uh, i- if you, if the person giving a referral is a neuropsych and you're an executive function coach- Mm-hmm and you're a good executive function coach that legitimately has a good relationship with that person, not a referral relationship, but-
• 24:31
  Gretchen: Right
• 24:32
  Seth: you guys know each other A real relationship.
• 24:33
  Seth: Yeah.
• 24:33
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 24:34
  Seth: Like, I don't like BS stuff in- Yeah in general.
• 24:36
  Seth: Yeah.
• 24:36
  Seth: And it may be longer and harder road when you don't do BS stuff- Mm-hmm but it is the better road ultimately-
• 24:43
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm
• 24:43
  Seth: in so many ways.
• 24:44
  Seth: But, um, I would say, how many peop- I mean, if you have an neuropsych who's seeing people all the time, and they're...
• 24:51
  Seth: I mean, I guess it depends, it depends on so much, Gretchen.
• 24:55
  Seth: It depends on how much, you know, in America we need- You want me
• 24:57
  Gretchen: to let you off the hook here?
• 24:59
  Gretchen: 'Cause I can't,'cause I'll just say that I often tell people you need three.
• 25:04
  Gretchen: Like, shoot for three people- If I, maybe if you- who are, who are referring regularly.
• 25:09
  Seth: Maybe if you, that's probably a good answer.
• 25:15
  Gretchen: Well, and that's why- Yeah I perked up,'cause you said there are three people who ended up being neuropsych.
• 25:20
  Seth: That's true.
• 25:21
  Seth: That's
• 25:21
  Gretchen: true.
• 25:21
  Gretchen: So that's why I perked up.
• 25:22
  Gretchen: I was like, ooh, my rule of three.
• 25:25
  Seth: That's true.
• 25:25
  Seth: Three or four of them started referring me all the time.
• 25:27
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 25:28
  Seth: Yeah.
• 25:29
  Seth: Yeah.
• 25:29
  Seth: Now, um, we're in a situation where I c- you know, and you will get to the point if, to me, if you focus on service, and I'm gonna use the example again of an introvert, because I'm gonna say someone who's extreme opposite me on introversion/extroversion, and you think that you're too introverted.
• 25:49
  Seth: No, no, no, no, no, you're not.
• 25:52
  Seth: I know absolutely positively that is not true after, I'm, I'm just using this as an example, but it's a fun one for me.
• 25:59
  Seth: But, um, it is hard, harder for an introvert to do, to get your foot in the door and get coffee with people or if you're doing that or whatever.
• 26:10
  Seth: Don't do what I did, do it your way and trust- Yeah your way.
• 26:14
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 26:14
  Gretchen: As long as your heart's, your heart is centered around, as you said, being of service and being in your love and joy or whatever word works for you from a
• 26:24
  Seth: values perspective.
• 26:25
  Seth: There will be so many families that would be like,"I would never have my kid work with Seth.
• 26:28
  Seth: Seth's- Mm-hmm t- too extroverted, too blah, blah, blah." Mm-hmm.
• 26:31
  Seth: Too whatever.
• 26:32
  Seth: And that some, somebody who's super introverted and, um, really, uh, patient and, and, and kind and, and leaves a lot of, I mean, I actually- Mm-hmm I do leave a lot of wait time with my kids.
• 26:44
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 26:45
  Seth: But you know, this, it, I don't, I, I'm not on a podcast with my kids, but-
• 26:49
  Gretchen: Right.
• 26:49
  Seth: Um, but some people would be like,"That energy is not for my kid.
• 26:53
  Seth: This person..." And you are- Your energy is perfect for so many families.
• 26:59
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 26:59
  Seth: So just, I just wanna say whatever your style is, stay true to it, because there's a lot of pressure to be something other than you are.
• 27:08
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 27:09
  Seth: That is what's gonna get you the best, most aligned clients, people that you're really serving, that you're loving your work, they're loving working with you.
• 27:17
  Seth: That's what you want.
• 27:19
  Seth: So anyhow, then, um, you know, I, I start doing this stuff in 2010, and then comes, I don't know what, I start getting on a couple of summits.
• 27:28
  Seth: I don't know.
• 27:28
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 27:29
  Seth: And one day I asked Jason Hilkey from the Happily Family conference.
• 27:33
  Seth: Um, I was visiting my family.
• 27:35
  Seth: I'm like,"Hey, can you tell me about this?" Because I'd been on a few summits, and I'd been on his summit.
• 27:40
  Seth: "Can you tell me how this works?" Because in my mind, when I was on these summits, I started thinking,"I want the world to know about executive function.
• 27:47
  Seth: People don't know what this is." So, and one of the good things about my ADD is my risk tolerance, very high risk tolerance-
• 27:54
  Gretchen: Uh-huh.
• 27:55
  Gretchen: Uh-huh
• 27:55
  Seth: and my imagination, and when you tell me I can't do something, I just think you have a lack of imagination.
• 28:02
  Seth: When you say a kid can't do something, a system can't do something- Yeah, yeah I'm just like, of course the system can change.
• 28:08
  Seth: Is it hard?
• 28:09
  Seth: Yeah.
• 28:09
  Seth: Is it nearly impossible?
• 28:10
  Seth: Yeah.
• 28:10
  Seth: But can it change?
• 28:11
  Seth: Absolutely.
• 28:12
  Seth: We created it how it is now.
• 28:14
  Seth: Some idiots back in some room somewhere- Mm-hmm made these things, you know?
• 28:18
  Seth: Like, these things can change.
• 28:20
  Seth: They can and do change.
• 28:22
  Seth: So if they could make it how it is now, why can't other people make it better?
• 28:27
  Seth: Like, uh, anyhow, uh, I'm like, these summit things, you can reach so many people.
• 28:33
  Seth: I want...
• 28:33
  Seth: I- my mission has been to s- serve the people I'm working with, but also to change education, change- Mm-hmm the world as much as I can.
• 28:41
  Seth: Yeah.
• 28:41
  Seth: Change, um, uh, teach the world about executive function.
• 28:45
  Seth: So, um, w- I get on a call with Jason, figure out the basics of this, and start piecing together how to do this, and then had my first one in 2019.
• 28:56
  Seth: Again, you know, I'm reaching out to people for speakers, asking them to speak on a thing that doesn't exist, looking for heart-centered people, uh, people that I admired, that I liked what they were doing in the world.
• 29:08
  Seth: Um, in this eight years, uh, I've had maybe three people that I've interviewed that I didn't like after- Hmm the interview or, or a year after the interview, whatever.
• 29:19
  Gretchen: Yeah, interesting.
• 29:20
  Gretchen: But
• 29:20
  Seth: that, and all of them had the same thing, and that was that, uh, they weren't really fully present.
• 29:29
  Seth: It was performative.
• 29:30
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 29:31
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 29:32
  Seth: I can't stand that stuff.
• 29:34
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 29:35
  Seth: Yeah.
• 29:35
  Seth: It's just- It's
• 29:35
  Gretchen: hard
• 29:35
  Seth: I know y- Gretchen and I know each other well.
• 29:37
  Seth: It's just like- Yeah and you can hear Gretchen and I know each other well on this podcast.
• 29:40
  Seth: We're not performing it, but it's just- It's just gross, you know?
• 29:46
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 29:46
  Seth: Like, like I, I'd be interviewing them and I'm like,"Hello, are you even..." I don't say that, but I'm- Right, they're
• 29:51
  Gretchen: on their track.
• 29:51
  Gretchen: They're doing their thing.
• 29:54
  Seth: Yeah.
• 29:54
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 29:55
  Seth: So I've learned to really, you know, vet for now, uh, people who speak on it that are really coming from the heart.
• 30:04
  Seth: Yeah.
• 30:05
  Seth: You
• 30:05
  Gretchen: know?
• 30:05
  Gretchen: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:06
  Seth: Uh- Is that- that's the thing.
• 30:07
  Seth: That...
• 30:08
  Seth: What comes from the heart goes to the heart.
• 30:09
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 30:09
  Seth: And so yeah, so then I started the thing and so you asked me to give...
• 30:14
  Seth: I tried to keep it brief- but that's, that's the oh my God worm- It's okay.
• 30:17
  Seth: It was a good
• 30:17
  Gretchen: story.
• 30:19
  Seth: Yeah.
• 30:20
  Gretchen: I didn't realize we were gonna drop so much wisdom about heart-centered businesses here, so- Mm-hmm uh, I, I...
• 30:27
  Gretchen: you're just...
• 30:27
  Gretchen: I just wanna snap, snap, snap as you're talking because everything you say about, uh, coming from the heart and being with professionals from a place of service is how I talk about building your referral network.
• 30:39
  Gretchen: And referral network sounds so kinda sleazy, but it's really a network of friends who you like to talk shop with.
• 30:46
  Gretchen: Well,
• 30:46
  Seth: I could probably be b- yes, I could probably be better at that, but-
• 30:50
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm
• 30:50
  Seth: yeah.
• 30:51
  Gretchen: Do you remember how we met?
• 30:53
  Gretchen: I've told this story a few times when you've interviewed me, but I don't expect you to remember, but it's related to the theme of asking for help and creating connection, so I just wanted to see if you remember, and if you don't, I'll remind you.
• 31:05
  Seth: Remind me.
• 31:08
  Gretchen: So I...
• 31:10
  Gretchen: one of my most important, uh, clients, her name is Olivia, and actually there are, there's a whole advanced micro-credential in the Anti-Boring Learning Lab of Olivia, uh, uh, her sessions with me, unedited versions of her sessions, so she was just this extreme ADHD kiddo.
• 31:28
  Gretchen: And her dad when he reached out for me, I asked,"How did you find out about me?" And he said,"Oh, I was watching some YouTube video.
• 31:35
  Gretchen: This guy mentioned that, oh, there's this lady who does something like Anti-Boring something, and she might be a good coach." And so you mentioned me for some reason in a video, and so I immediately had him send me the video, and I watched it.
• 31:51
  Gretchen: I'm like,"How did I get on the radar of this guy?" And so I reached out to you and I said,"Hey, you mentioned me.
• 31:58
  Gretchen: Maybe we should get together and chat and just say hi." And that was, I think, a year before the summit, I think.
• 32:06
  Gretchen: So again, reaching out for no reason- Yeah other than let's connect.
• 32:13
  Seth: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:15
  Seth: And mentioning you for no reason other than And
• 32:17
  Gretchen: mentioning you.
• 32:17
  Gretchen: I'm sorry I
• 32:18
  Seth: genuinely liked it.
• 32:19
  Seth: Yeah.
• 32:19
  Seth: Yeah.
• 32:20
  Gretchen: Yeah, and also, I, I wanna say that you've reached out to me for help from time to time- Mm-hmm once we got connected in voice memo land.
• 32:29
  Gretchen: Um- Mm-hmm it's, I mean, so I've been the recipient of your asking for help, and it's been so connecting.
• 32:35
  Gretchen: It's, we think we're so ashamed of asking for help, and yet it's the thing that connects people the most- Mm-hmm when we can be of service to each other.
• 32:43
  Seth: Well, we're sort of culturally ashamed of it, but the irony is, is that anybody who is successful in anything...
• 32:55
  Seth: Do you remember how bad of a free throw shooter Shaq was?
• 32:59
  Gretchen: I'm sorry.
• 33:00
  Gretchen: Basketball would not have been my thing.
• 33:01
  Gretchen: I, I'm proud- Okay I know who Shaq is, though.
• 33:05
  Seth: All right.
• 33:05
  Seth: Let me use another, this might be a more controversial one, but, like, I, I ha- I have a problem with Elon Musk and his trillionaire-ism.
• 33:13
  Gretchen: Yes.
• 33:13
  Seth: He did not do this on his own.
• 33:16
  Seth: There is no such thing as a trillionaire.
• 33:18
  Seth: He did not bring a trillion dollars of value to this planet.
• 33:21
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 33:21
  Seth: No way.
• 33:22
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 33:23
  Seth: Um, so he did that from tons of other people.
• 33:27
  Seth: Like, we, anybody who is, quote,"successful"- Athletes, musicians.
• 33:34
  Seth: Do you, you know how many artists, musicians, famous musicians can't keep a planner together for the life of them?
• 33:40
  Seth: They have people who are doing that for them.
• 33:43
  Seth: So they need help.
• 33:44
  Seth: And do you know any famous musician you like?
• 33:47
  Seth: They got vocal coaching.
• 33:49
  Seth: They got- Totally guitar lessons.
• 33:51
  Seth: They got, you know- Mm-hmm like we get help, and help helps everybody who does it.
• 33:57
  Seth: And I think that's, that's something I really try to impart on kids.
• 34:01
  Seth: Uh, it's not only is it not bad to ask for help, it's cool as hell.
• 34:07
  Seth: It's awesome.
• 34:08
  Seth: If you wanna be like the people you think are cool- Yeah do what they do.
• 34:11
  Seth: Do what they do.
• 34:11
  Seth: That's what they do.
• 34:12
  Seth: Yeah.
• 34:13
  Seth: They do not do it without help.
• 34:15
  Seth: Um, everybody who's good at anything continues to grow.
• 34:19
  Seth: And I'm, I'm even gonna talk about people like, like Eric Clapton, right?
• 34:23
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 34:23
  Seth: Who's still growing and learning- Mm-hmm as an artist.
• 34:26
  Seth: I, I'm just into guitar stuff for many years, but, like, they still continue to try to get better.
• 34:34
  Seth: Mm.
• 34:34
  Seth: Like
• 34:35
  Gretchen: Mm.
• 34:36
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Gretchen: It's why I admire the members of the Anti-Boring Learning Lab.
• 34:39
  Gretchen: So many people come just for the initial training, and then they stay'cause they love being in a community of people who, of educators who love to grow alongside each other.
• 34:46
  Seth: Always getting better.
• 34:47
  Seth: Yeah.
• 34:47
  Gretchen: You
• 34:47
  Seth: and I, yeah.
• 34:47
  Seth: Yeah.
• 34:47
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 34:48
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 34:49
  Gretchen: Okay.
• 34:49
  Gretchen: So- All right TFOS.
• 34:51
  Gretchen: You started this- What's TFOS?
• 34:52
  Gretchen: incredible summit.
• 34:54
  Gretchen: But yeah, why don't you tell people who don't know what it is, and then I got a bunch of fun questions about it.
• 34:59
  Seth: Okay.
• 35:00
  Seth: So yeah, I, so I started this thing, TFOS.
• 35:03
  Seth: This year is TFOS'26.
• 35:04
  Seth: It's the eighth year.
• 35:05
  Seth: TFOS26.com or executivefunctionsummit.com.
• 35:09
  Seth: So I s- I do, like, a free four-day summit, um, and then I have, if you wanna buy a VIP pass, I do, like, a lifetime access with bonuses and stuff like that.
• 35:19
  Seth: But, uh, what I wanted to create was something that, A, could help teach the world about executive function, but B, that is practical and actionable.
• 35:30
  Seth: I'm very obsessed with making sure that parents, and it's for parents, but we have a lot of therapists- Mm-hmm ADHD coaches, and teachers that come But the main audience, I want my speakers to speak to parents-
• 35:42
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm
• 35:42
  Seth: about what parents can do to help their kid.
• 35:45
  Seth: Yeah.
• 35:46
  Seth: I want them to walk away with things they can do.
• 35:49
  Seth: They're gonna walk away with some theory, they're gonna walk away with some knowledge, but I want them to, the most important thing is a parent gets done listening to the session or to, to some sessions, they've taken some notes and stuff, and they have an action plan.
• 36:03
  Seth: They know,"I'm gonna try this, I'm gonna try this, I'm gonna try this." Not,"Oh, that's really interesting.
• 36:08
  Seth: That explains so much.
• 36:09
  Seth: Oh, that's great." But that does not change your kid's life.
• 36:13
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 36:13
  Seth: What changes your kid's life is when you learn something and you apply it.
• 36:17
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 36:18
  Seth: Whether it works or not doesn't even matter.
• 36:20
  Seth: Try something else if that one didn't work, but that you apply new principles.
• 36:25
  Seth: Same with, again, we can say the musicians, sports, whatever, but you apply something and that is what's gonna change your kid's life.
• 36:33
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 36:34
  Seth: So I try to get, um, again, these heart-centered people who love kids and families who are giving on all different types of topics, but things that are under the, the, uh, the umbrella of executive function.
• 36:49
  Seth: You have a kid, your kid struggles to get important things done.
• 36:54
  Seth: They struggle with this thing called motivation or procrastination or time management or planning or organization or blah, blah, blah.
• 37:00
  Seth: Either way, you know in your gut if you're, if you're concerned about your kid- kid's ability to get important things done and how that might impact their future.
• 37:08
  Seth: So you've got this kid you love, you wanna help them.
• 37:11
  Seth: I, I seek people who can give you actionable things that you can do under that umbrella of executive function and everything that's related to that.
• 37:20
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 37:21
  Seth: One of the biggest things this year that's coming up over and over and over and over again with so many of the speakers is emotional regulation.
• 37:27
  Seth: Yeah.
• 37:27
  Seth: Emotional regulation is important every year, but this year it seems almost like- Off
• 37:32
  Gretchen: the charts
• 37:33
  Seth: off the charts, yeah.
• 37:34
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 37:35
  Seth: Um, and, and that's so good because people now can articulate,"Oh, my kid- Mm-hmm is struggling." Well, they can use- Mm-hmm the words with emotional regulation.
• 37:42
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 37:43
  Seth: Now we can say that instead of using- Mm like old shaming messages like,"Get it together.
• 37:48
  Seth: Control yourself." Yeah.
• 37:49
  Seth: Like things like this- Right that, that just don't take into context that there is a nervous system that is- Yeah dysregulated.
• 37:56
  Seth: Yeah.
• 37:56
  Seth: So there's a lot of talk about emotional regulation this year.
• 37:59
  Seth: Um, but again, it's not just, uh, discussing it, it's giving parents strategies- Yeah things to do.
• 38:06
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 38:07
  Gretchen: So I know you've probably had at this point over 100 speakers that you've- Mm-hmm interviewed, right?
• 38:13
  Gretchen: Yeah,
• 38:14
  Seth: 150 or 200.
• 38:15
  Seth: Yeah.
• 38:15
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 38:15
  Gretchen: So is there a speaker that actually changed your thinking or that stands out in your mind as like,"Holy shit," we'll use that word again,"I really learned something I didn't know"?
• 38:28
  Seth: Um, yes.
• 38:30
  Seth: So basically, two things happen every year.
• 38:33
  Seth: One, there's a bunch of, uh, little light bulbs for me.
• 38:37
  Seth: Uh-huh.
• 38:37
  Seth: So the way that I, uh...
• 38:39
  Seth: So I'm gonna say two sort of opposite things.
• 38:42
  Seth: One is that all the speakers say the exact same thing in different ways.
• 38:45
  Gretchen: It's true.
• 38:46
  Seth: And after years of doing this, that was such a relief- Yeah for me as the interviewer-
• 38:51
  Gretchen: Yeah
• 38:52
  Seth: to, to really piece that together- Mm-hmm that we're all saying the same thing.
• 38:55
  Seth: Because what that means is that a parent can start to create their own, uh, conceptualization of their child and their child's brain- Mm-hmm and their child's life in, in a way that they can have their, sort of their own framework after, like, getting, um, uh, immersed in, in learning about their kids.
• 39:14
  Seth: Uh, because it's sort of, to me, it's sort of like there are universal truths.
• 39:19
  Seth: That's why, like, you know, all these different religions and societies and cultures around the world have a lot of the same- Mm-hmm underlying principles and stuff like that.
• 39:28
  Seth: So these uni- universals in education are basically the same, and hearing it from different people, different models and different ways, they're all saying the same thing.
• 39:37
  Seth: So on the one hand, I'm hearing the same thing, and the reason I said it's gonna sound the opposite is because, on the other hand, I hear some nugget of wisdom that taught me, from people, from you, from, um, uh...
• 39:51
  Seth: Yeah, there, there was somebody, um, Sucheta, she gave probably the best, uh, I don't remember what year she spoke.
• 39:57
  Seth: She probably gave the best definition of executive function I had ever heard.
• 40:02
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 40:02
  Seth: Um, um, Debbie Reber, who I, I know well, I mean- Yeah she said things that have shifted me.
• 40:09
  Seth: I...
• 40:09
  Seth: So not, n- not one stands out.
• 40:13
  Gretchen: Uh-huh.
• 40:14
  Gretchen: But there are tons of little moments.
• 40:16
  Gretchen: It's, it...
• 40:16
  Gretchen: I almost see you- But there- remembering.
• 40:18
  Gretchen: Like, your body remembers these moments of-
• 40:20
  Seth: Yeah,
• 40:20
  Gretchen: yeah oh, wow.
• 40:22
  Seth: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:23
  Seth: And I think also, mm, the way my brain works, too.
• 40:26
  Seth: Like, right now I'm in interview mode.
• 40:28
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 40:28
  Seth: So I'm interviewing 30 people right now.
• 40:31
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 40:31
  Seth: La- last night I did two.
• 40:34
  Seth: Like, I am so in it, like, I can't even see straight.
• 40:37
  Seth: Yeah.
• 40:37
  Seth: I can't sleep right now.
• 40:38
  Seth: Yeah.
• 40:38
  Seth: I'm gonna hit a depression for the two weeks after TEFOS.
• 40:41
  Seth: That happens every year.
• 40:43
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 40:43
  Seth: Like, I am so, like, overwhelmed with, um, interviewing them and, and being really present with them at the moment.
• 40:53
  Seth: But you ask me five minutes later what just happened, I'm going- Yeah"Uh, what?"
• 40:58
  Gretchen: Yeah,
• 40:58
  Seth: I agree.
• 40:58
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 40:58
  Seth: I need a nap.
• 41:00
  Seth: And then the next day I have an inbox with five million emails to respond to, and my team, and tasks, building out the summit and all that.
• 41:08
  Seth: So, but I will say that, that, to tie that up, yeah, I think that- I h- I hear the same thing, and I get new nuggets every year from a good handful of them that for me it's like,"Oh, I love the way that you articulated that thing."
• 41:24
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 41:25
  Seth: That's good stuff.
• 41:26
  Seth: I wanna steal that.
• 41:27
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 41:28
  Seth: And I, I'm too overwhelmed to remember to steal everything, but-
• 41:31
  Gretchen: I know.
• 41:32
  Gretchen: You need somebody to go through and, like, just cut the nuggets out- but you won't remember them when they're over.
• 41:37
  Gretchen: I, having done my own summit, I totally get it.
• 41:41
  Gretchen: So if this is eight years, how many more years are you gonna
• 41:44
  Seth: do this thing, man?
• 41:45
  Seth: Yeah, I can't do it.
• 41:45
  Seth: Yeah.
• 41:46
  Seth: Do you know how great J- I, I might not even have teeth in two years.
• 41:50
  Seth: Like, I'm- I'm gonna come and interview everybody like that.
• 41:54
  Seth: Um, I made a decision to...
• 41:57
  Seth: Now, I may change that decision.
• 41:59
  Seth: Yeah.
• 41:59
  Seth: One of the good things about life is that.
• 42:01
  Seth: But yeah, I, in my mind I'm like,"Okay, eight, then two more, so this year.
• 42:06
  Seth: Three more including this year, uh, and I think I'm done." I think my mission of trying to get it out to the world, I think I've done what I can do, and I can let it go.
• 42:16
  Seth: Um, and then to be able to take a break to, you just went on a camping trip.
• 42:20
  Seth: Like, I don't- Mm-hmm feel like I've had a break- Yeah where I haven't had to, like, check my email and stuff for a couple years.
• 42:27
  Seth: Like-
• 42:27
  Gretchen: Yeah
• 42:28
  Seth: I, and, uh, we, we build out the summit for months.
• 42:33
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 42:35
  Seth: So, uh, and, and I also have other, a million other projects.
• 42:41
  Seth: So I, I'll stop at 10-
• 42:43
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm
• 42:44
  Seth: is what I'm, what I'm telling you right now.
• 42:46
  Seth: Now, after this year I might be like,"You know, I'm, I can't d- I c- I need a break," and I might not even do it next year.
• 42:53
  Seth: But, but that's my intention, is to do 10 and, and-
• 42:56
  Gretchen: Well, if you need- figure out- a co-host, Seth-
• 43:00
  Seth: Oh
• 43:00
  Gretchen: so that you don't have to do as many interviews yourself, that's one way I could participate in the future, is I could just help you interview.
• 43:08
  Gretchen: I never even thought
• 43:08
  Seth: about it.
• 43:09
  Seth: It's funny because my girlfriend will say, she's like,"Why do you do so many things?
• 43:15
  Seth: You should have- Yeah such and such," or the...
• 43:17
  Seth: And it's like, I just, when you start your own business and now I- Yeah have a little team, but, you know, the, for those of us who start little businesses who aren't good at delegating-
• 43:26
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm
• 43:27
  Seth: like, why are you doing that graphic?
• 43:29
  Seth: Well, o- oh yeah, that's right, I have someone to do graphics.
• 43:33
  Seth: Yeah.
• 43:33
  Seth: This is not worth it.
• 43:34
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 43:35
  Seth: But.
• 43:35
  Gretchen: Well, and if it-
• 43:36
  Seth: Maybe I'll have you help me interview, yeah.
• 43:38
  Gretchen: Yeah, let me know.
• 43:39
  Gretchen: I would, I would be so happy to do that.
• 43:41
  Gretchen: But
• 43:41
  Seth: I love that part of it.
• 43:42
  Seth: That's the fun-
• 43:43
  Gretchen: I know you do.
• 43:44
  Gretchen: I love that part of it, too.
• 43:46
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 43:46
  Seth: Yeah.
• 43:47
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 43:48
  Gretchen: Well, is there anything, we're, we're sort of in wrap-up mode now.
• 43:52
  Gretchen: We've been chit-chatting for a while.
• 43:53
  Gretchen: Is there anything that you notice, like a memory that stands out about an impactful moment for you, or just anything else on your mind or heart that you wanna make sure that people understand, either about Tifos or neurodivergent kiddos or business?
• 44:11
  Seth: I don't know.
• 44:12
  Seth: I, I'll say again, moments with Tevos, uh, that really stand out to me is- Mm-hmm when, when it's going on, the, the Facebook group is really active.
• 44:24
  Seth: And- Yeah,
• 44:25
  Gretchen: it is popping in there
• 44:27
  Seth: I get a bunch of emails.
• 44:28
  Seth: Please don't email me.
• 44:29
  Seth: I c- I cannot, I don't, I have to...
• 44:31
  Seth: Uh, it's unsustainable.
• 44:32
  Seth: But the, I, I am in those messages every day, and seeing people have light bulb moments, and this is the same with when I'm working with kids.
• 44:40
  Seth: Like, that just does it for me.
• 44:42
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 44:43
  Seth: Like, when somebody's like,"Oh my gosh, this insight," you know?
• 44:48
  Seth: That's a moment for me that, that's fun for me.
• 44:53
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 44:53
  Seth: That's, like, the fruits of the effort, when people have a change.
• 44:57
  Seth: Uh, so that stands out to me.
• 45:00
  Seth: Um, and as far as, like, other moments, uh, that really stand out to me, um, I mean, there's a million that I think of with...
• 45:11
  Seth: Uh, all right, I'll tell you, I'll give you one.
• 45:14
  Seth: It's, again, it's not, not a moment.
• 45:17
  Seth: I, I had a kid Who, um, I'm still in touch with the family, and I love being in touch with families for years and years, and, um, started working with him in seventh grade.
• 45:29
  Seth: This was a kid, his parents were like,"He is not cut out for school.
• 45:32
  Seth: He is not made for school," blah, blah, blah.
• 45:34
  Seth: And he had a teacher in seventh grade, and then he had that same teacher in eighth grade who just had it in for him.
• 45:41
  Seth: Just didn't get him, didn't like him.
• 45:43
  Seth: Uh, I would go in to advocate or go into IEP meetings or whatever, and this guy was just not...
• 45:50
  Seth: D- doesn't belong in the classroom type of teacher.
• 45:54
  Seth: Just critical and rigid and all this stuff.
• 45:58
  Seth: So this kid, I'm working with him with the executive function stuff for years through high school.
• 46:06
  Seth: He's done with high school, didn't do well.
• 46:08
  Seth: He's got arrested, got in a fight with police officers, uh, in high school, blah, blah, blah.
• 46:14
  Seth: Like all, all kinds of drama.
• 46:19
  Seth: And, um, and I, I love the kid, love the family and, and...
• 46:23
  Seth: But for me and for the family, like always going back to the kid like,"How can we help you?
• 46:28
  Seth: How can we support you?
• 46:29
  Seth: How can we keep going from wherever we're at and build?" And yada, yada.
• 46:34
  Seth: So this kid finishes high school, goes out and starts doing some things.
• 46:40
  Seth: He likes sports, he likes rock climbing, he likes surfing, he likes this and that.
• 46:43
  Seth: Just likes being outdoors.
• 46:45
  Seth: He's, he, he would refer to himself as a dirtbagger, which is, if you're familiar with rock climbing-
• 46:50
  Gretchen: Mm
• 46:50
  Seth: these are the people that sort of started rock climbing that would just go out and, like live in their van and just climb all the time.
• 46:57
  Seth: And, um, so this kid did not go to college.
• 47:04
  Seth: He's 22 or 23 now.
• 47:07
  Seth: He lives the most adventurous life of any of the students I've ever known.
• 47:13
  Seth: Yeah.
• 47:13
  Seth: So we can think the college track, blah, blah, blah.
• 47:15
  Seth: I, I don't care what you say.
• 47:16
  Seth: Yeah.
• 47:16
  Seth: This kid is living.
• 47:17
  Seth: He's been all over the world, he has no money.
• 47:20
  Seth: He comes back home, works at a ski shop for a couple months, mows some lawns or whatever, saves some money.
• 47:26
  Seth: Goes out, travels, gets lost, runs out of money, gets in weird situations, uh, and, uh, goes and climbs and surfs and stays in tents or on the beach or, uh, in a bungalow or a cabin or something.
• 47:43
  Seth: He figures it out.
• 47:45
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 47:45
  Seth: And he is living.
• 47:48
  Seth: He is living.
• 47:50
  Seth: He has a great relationship with his family.
• 47:54
  Gretchen: Mm.
• 47:56
  Seth: Cause they did not try to change him, thank goodness.
• 47:59
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 47:59
  Seth: You know?
• 48:00
  Seth: They, they really, he, he...
• 48:03
  Seth: They really just looked at him as this kid is who he is, and how can we help him?
• 48:08
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 48:08
  Seth: He's a very unique, very unique personality.
• 48:13
  Seth: Um, so that's something, you know, when you ask for like a memory, again, it's not- Yeah one memory, but it's like this sort of like thing that encapsulates a lot of the kids that I work with, is that you have this amazing human being in front of you- And they are not on a traditional path.
• 48:33
  Seth: The traditional path is not right for them.
• 48:35
  Seth: Embrace it.
• 48:36
  Seth: Find what they are good at.
• 48:38
  Seth: Build on that.
• 48:39
  Seth: You gotta work on the weaknesses to some extent, but not what we do in schools, which is a very weakness-focused thing- Yeah where it's like,"Always strive to get better," blah, blah.
• 48:48
  Seth: It's like, no, strive to help them be who they are.
• 48:53
  Seth: That's where it's at.
• 48:54
  Seth: So that's, that's sort of my, my response to your question.
• 48:58
  Gretchen: It's a beautiful response, and I was maybe gonna ask one more question, but I think we should just end it there.
• 49:03
  Gretchen: Well, why
• 49:03
  Seth: not?
• 49:03
  Seth: We're here.
• 49:04
  Seth: Just ask one more.
• 49:07
  Gretchen: Well- After that beautiful story- Oh, okay about acceptance.
• 49:12
  Gretchen: But I will say,'cause you ask all of us at TFOS, but do you ever get to say, how do you define executive function, Seth?
• 49:20
  Seth: Mm, yeah.
• 49:22
  Seth: Yeah, I get to say it all the time.
• 49:24
  Seth: Well, it's-
• 49:25
  Gretchen: But you ask us, do you ever define it yourself during TFOS?
• 49:28
  Gretchen: Yeah,
• 49:28
  Seth: yeah.
• 49:29
  Seth: Sure.
• 49:29
  Seth: Okay.
• 49:29
  Seth: I do, yeah, yeah.
• 49:30
  Seth: So it's how the front part of the brain helps us to get things done.
• 49:35
  Seth: It's anything and everything that the, the brain uses to help us get important things done.
• 49:39
  Seth: You and I are doing this interview right now, so we've had to plan, we've had to organize, we've had to pre-plan.
• 49:45
  Seth: We've had to get rid of distractions.
• 49:48
  Seth: The dogs are not in here right now.
• 49:49
  Seth: We have to prioritize, prioritize this over the other things that we could be doing right now.
• 49:55
  Seth: Um, we have to focus, pay attention.
• 49:58
  Seth: Uh, so all, all...
• 50:00
  Seth: We have to regulate our emotions.
• 50:01
  Seth: Mm.
• 50:01
  Seth: Both...
• 50:02
  Seth: I'm sure both you and I have, uh, intense emotional things going on,'cause life is lifey.
• 50:07
  Seth: Um, but we are regulated, and we are here in this moment regulated and, and executing on this task.
• 50:15
  Seth: So that's what executive function is, how, how we become more skillful at getting our brain to help us achieve, uh, the most important goals.
• 50:25
  Gretchen: So that we can live our, our best, most aligned with ourself and with our communities lives that we possibly can.
• 50:33
  Seth: There you go.
• 50:34
  Gretchen: There we go.
• 50:35
  Gretchen: So TFOS, this is coming out before TFOS.
• 50:38
  Gretchen: Give us the dates.
• 50:39
  Gretchen: Give us the little commercial one more time, and then I'll say the link will be in the show notes for everyone.
• 50:44
  Seth: TFOS26.com, the executive, or executivefunctionsummit.com, is August 14th through 17th, 2026 for four days free, and then we have an early bird sale that always goes on up until the first night, so up till the 13th, and then it's on sale during the summit, uh, if you want the VIP pass.
• 51:03
  Seth: But it is a free weekend.
• 51:04
  Seth: You should definitely dive into as much of it over the weekend as you can.
• 51:08
  Seth: There's no reason not to.
• 51:09
  Seth: Tell your friends.
• 51:11
  Seth: Um, help me get the word out.
• 51:12
  Seth: Mm-hmm.
• 51:13
  Seth: TFOS26.com.
• 51:14
  Seth: That's the best way people find out is word of mouth.
• 51:17
  Seth: So those of you listening right now, literally you telling somebody is very helpful- It makes such a difference to us get the word out.
• 51:23
  Gretchen: Yep, and we have three anti-boring learning lab, um, speakers.
• 51:28
  Gretchen: Sessions.
• 51:28
  Gretchen: Krista Hop- Speakers Edward Coronado, and myself.
• 51:31
  Gretchen: So I'm really excited that we have infiltrated-
• 51:35
  Seth: Yes
• 51:36
  Gretchen: our amazing people in the lab.
• 51:38
  Gretchen: All right, well I know- Thank you you have a day ahead of you over there in Thailand.
• 51:42
  Gretchen: So sending you lots of love into your day, and thank you so much for, for bringing yourself and your heart here with us.
• 51:48
  Seth: Thanks, Gretchen.
• 51:49
  Seth: Take care.