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Tracer Rounds with Retired Seal Team 6 Don Mann · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

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And welcome back to the Tracer Rounds show.
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And you're on military broadcast radio where we're giving
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veterans a voice. And tonight's voice is to SEAL
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Team 6 Navy SEAL Don Mann. Welcome.
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Retired, of course, but welcome. Thank you, Terry.
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Thanks for having me on the show.
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So excited to have you on. You're a friend of my friend,
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and so you graciously agreed to come on.
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And so I really appreciate it. So I'm thanking Ace from the
1:43
Bulletproof Podcast for introducing us.
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So I was going to start the show.
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I think with just maybe some of your background, most people
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know about Navy Seals and SEAL Team 6, but how did you decide
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to enlist? What were your reasonings?
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And then were you always wanting to go the direction of a Navy
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SEAL or were you were you started in another direction and
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then pivoted mid, mid career? Well, you know, Terry, I really
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didn't have a plan set in my mind what I was going to do.
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And I knew that college wasn't going to work for me for four
2:19
years after high school. I tried it for one year and I
2:23
knew I didn't have three more years than me.
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But I also knew because of my father's influence that I was
2:29
going to serve our country somehow, somewhere.
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And I was very, very into physicals, physical conditioning
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and sports and running and, and lifting weights.
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I was very physical and I still am.
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I have been my whole life. So I knew I want to do something
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to serve our country, but I wanted to make sure it was a
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physical, a physical unit or physical command or physical
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service. But back when I joined back in
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the 70s, there wasn't much known about the Navy Seals or
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underwater demolition team. You heard about the frogmen
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sometimes in movies. But so, so I thought what I
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would do is go join and be a Marine.
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And I wanted to be a Marine. And, you know, I was just, I, I
3:14
raced motorcycles. That's what I did.
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I raced motorcycles and I had fun.
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I didn't really have a plan other than ride as fast as I
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could and try to do well in the races every Sunday.
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But I did know I needed to serve.
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I wasn't going to sit in college for three more years.
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I wanted to go serve. So I went to the Marine Corps
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recruiter and and I didn't know a thing about the military other
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than my father was in the military and all of his brothers
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and sister were, they all joined when we got attacked and when
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Pearl Harbor was attacked, my father was in high school and he
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quit and joined the Navy and his two brothers quit doing what
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they were doing. They joined the military and so
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did his sister. So my grandparents had four
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stars on that door. And when there would be a show
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or a special on with military people losing their lives or
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killed, my father really have tears going down his eyes.
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He's very sensitive, but especially when it came to vets.
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So this rubbed off on me. I know, and I'm glad it did so.
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So when I went to see that Marine Corps recruiter not
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knowing anything about the military, believe it or not, I
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had no right to be, but I wasn't impressed by this guy.
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I thought I'd be still blown away by a Marine Corps
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recruiter, and I had nothing to compare him to.
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But it's probably his reaction to me.
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You know, I had long hair as a skinny kid.
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He's probably thinking, yeah, we don't need any more of you in
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our military. So I went next door to the Navy.
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And Diamond Jim Brady was a recruiter.
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I remember him still today. And I told him what I wanted to
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do. And he said, well, have you
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checked out the SEAL program? And he and I connected right
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away. I said, no, what?
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I don't know anything really about that.
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So he showed me this video, Men with Green Faces, and it changed
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my life. It showed all these guys really,
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really fit doing tons of pull ups and sit ups and push ups and
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running down the beach and blowing things up and skydiving
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and diving. So that that movie, that video
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changed my life because at that moment everything in my mind was
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straight. I had one thing I wanted to do
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and that was all. And and not having a backup plan
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was a good, good plan for me because I wanted to be a SEAL
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and nothing else. When you're going through hell
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week, are you going through BUDS and you're being beat up pretty
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badly and tortured? Some people call it.
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Some people might revert to going to that backup plan.
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I didn't have a backup plan. And if I did, it would have been
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easier to switch gears thinking, yeah, maybe I'll go be a
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helicopter pilot instead. But if not, having a backup plan
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helped a lot. So yeah, I joined the military.
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I joined the Navy, my father's Navy.
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He is very proud. That made me happy that he was
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so proud. And, and I did visualization for
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years on how hard it was going to because it took me a while to
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get there because I had to spine with the Marines at first
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because I was a corpsman, which is a medic, and the Seals didn't
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want brand new medics who didn't know their job yet.
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So I was serving with the Marine Corps and I loved it.
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I was basically an athlete and they sent me all over the world
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to compete in triathlons and bike races and running races and
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marathons. So I was a paid athlete while I
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was with the Marines and they liked it and I loved it.
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And I considered every event, every training event, every
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workout session and every race. It was getting me better
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prepared for BUDS SEAL training and it was just perfect.
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Everything was just perfect. And then when I went to Bud's
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every day I trained, I also visualized and I imagine how
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hard you know the long runs were going to be or those cold ocean
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swims in the middle of the night.
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I just tried to imagine how how bees not sleeping for a week and
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how week. And I visualized this and I did
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a really good job of visualizing it because in my mind I made
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everything much more difficult than it actually was, which was
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a nice surprise for me because every day back to the barracks
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and I think today was a hard day.
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It was tough. It was a tough day today, but it
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wasn't as hard as I thought it was.
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It was easier than I thought it was.
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I said that every night during Buds for over six months.
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So the visualization helped and not having a backup plan helped
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and knowing I absolutely was positive what I wanted to do for
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the rest of my life helped. And all the push ups and set ups
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and running, all that also helped that.
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That helped a lot, but not as much as a visualization or the
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mindset and, and the focus on the objective on mission
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completion, which is becoming a SEAL.
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And then I wanted to serve at SEAL Team 1-2 and six.
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And those were the three SEAL teams I served at.
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So everything went according to plan.
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You know, I, I really, I really resonate with what you said
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about visualizing your success or visualizing what you're doing
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or how you're going to compete or how you're going to proceed
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with this goal. Because people that don't do
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that seldom really make their goals that they're trying to
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attain because they're not seeing themselves in that space
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or in that mindset or in that mind frame.
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So I love that you say, you know, I really visualize myself
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going through this and I really thought about how it was going
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to be. And I think that's so important.
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And I love that you mentioned that because I, I have to agree
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that that's, that's one of the surest ways to get through and
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get to your goal. Yeah, thanks, Terry.
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You know, I, I after I got out, I did 21 years, then I did 25
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years with the CIA afterwards. So it wasn't an abrupt change.
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It was like a nice smooth transition.
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Still at all the war zones, still seeing the team guys.
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And you're still is, you're still aware the action is, it's
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not as nearly as difficult as being in the Seals during those
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years. You know, the CIA was much, much
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easier, of course, but so it was 45 plus years or so that I
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committed myself to the military and the government.
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But I, I, I loved doing it. But I have to say when I left
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the military after 21 years and I got out and I was dealing with
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civilians and working with civilians and agency people who
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are civilians, you know, I, I realized, wow, what is wrong
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with other people in the Seals and the teams that make sense.
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Like we had high goals, really big objectives and we fought
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hard, we worked hard, we trained hard to meet those.
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And then we succeeded most times, not all the time, but we,
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you, you try and try and try and try.
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And what I last time, that is the macro goal.
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And then you just make these little mini micro goals.
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You accomplish it, you accomplish it And before you
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know it, you're up at the macro goal level and you, you make it.
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But when I got out and I realized the civilians didn't
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think like that, I realized, wow, they a lot of people are
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wasting their lives because they, they seem to set their
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goals low. They like the banker or cook or
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a doctor or something or, but they seem to set their goals
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low. They reach that goal and they go
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home and they're happy with themselves.
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And still to this day, I don't understand how people would want
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to be like that. And I give talks around the
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country and that's one of the things I talk about.
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And I think it wakes up when people hear something like that.
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They realize, wow, that could be me.
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Because we all have a full potential and there's a big, big
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space here that you have to fill to get to that full potential.
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And then at the bottom, it's easy to reach small goals.
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But then when it's all over and you're old and you're, you know,
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you're close to, you know, the door is shutting on you, then
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there's at some point there's no more space or time to go
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complete those goals. The window's shut and the door
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is shut. And you're not going to be able
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to accomplish those goals. And you're going to be one of
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those people who said, I wish I did, I could have done that.
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I, I should have done that and, and I was positive I was not
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going to be one of those people. And, and I, I love it when, when
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you know, in conversation or in talks or whatever, or in
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training that that issue comes up.
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And I love it when a light goes on and someone says, wow, I, I,
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I know what you mean. I got to get to work.
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And, you know, I, I do these talks and, and once was this
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little, little old lady came up to me and her husband was on a
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Walker and he had oxygen. And they must have been in the
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90s. I mean, it's probably in the
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90s, I'd say. And she came up and she said, I
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really like that point. That meant a lot to me.
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I mean, we're going to push ourselves harder.
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And now when I take him to physical therapy in the morning,
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I'm going to make sure he gets worked harder.
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And I think that lesson could work for anybody.
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I wish I got that lesson when I was, is what I wish.
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So definitely, I mean, you, like you said, if you don't set your
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bar high enough, then when you reach that goal, then you're
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like, well, that was uneventful now like I reached that and now
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what? So you do have to have a plan
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and you do have to have small things, stepping stones to get
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to the bigger goal. So I totally agree that, you
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know, just setting your bar very low leads to a very
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dissatisfying result. I think because when you reach,
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OK, I've, I've got this goal, but like, I'm not as happy with
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it as I thought I would be when I got here.
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But if you're reaching small incremental goals and then
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eventually reaching this bigger goal, then you're like, yeah, I
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really did something. Yeah.
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And no matter how much it hurts, you know, we have a sending in
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the civil teams. Pain is good.
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Extreme pain is extremely good. But there's so much more to it
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than some tough guy T-shirt, you know, because there are two
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types of pain. And if, if we decide to stay in
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our comfort zone and stay in our little bubble and never reach
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out of it, we'll stay in that bubble all the life and then
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life's over. And then it's, it's done.
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But if you you push outside of that bubble a little bit, you
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reach beyond what you feel your boundaries are and you stretch
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those a little bit, it's going to be uncomfortable and it's
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going to be some pain, if you want to call it pain, but it's
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uncomfortable getting out of your comfort zone.
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But you expand the bubble and you expand it.
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And the more you are uncomfortable by pushing out of
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your boundaries, the larger that bubble becomes.
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And the two types of pain. So say for instance, somebody
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wanted to go through SEAL training and they've got to do a
14:22
lot of pull ups. And one guy's doing pull ups and
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he's supposed to do 28 and he's at 21 and he's suffering and
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he's whining and he's saying I can't do it, I can't do it.
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He quits for the rest of his life.
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He's going to have the bad type of pain.
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He'll have that permanent pain of regret.
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He could have kept going, but he quit.
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So now for the rest of his life, he's got to regret.
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That's not going to go away. The other guy, man, I can do
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three more. All I have to do is 3 more.
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If I could have that temporary pain I put up through, I put
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through that pain that comes with just having discipline.
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If I can knock on three more than I'm one step up and there's
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a chance I'm going to make it through SEAL training or range
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of training or anything but the temporary pain of just having
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the discipline to push through the pain.
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That pain's not bad. The pain of giving up and saying
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I'm too tired, I'm too sore, I'm too uncomfortable.
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That lasts for a lifetime. And, and if I could say, Terry,
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you know, I, I like pushing myself and I always have it's,
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it's, I get, I, I just enjoy it. But I was doing 2 Iron Man's in
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a day once and, and I only takes 11 to 12 hours or something like
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that. But when I, when I did the last
15:43
time I did Hawaii Iron Man, it was under 12 hours.
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And then when I retired from the military, I was in my 40s.
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I was thinking, well, if I could do 1 Iron Man in under 12 hours,
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I should be able to do 2 in a day.
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The math maintenance for me. And, and then my mind was set
16:02
that nothing's impossible. You set a goal, a map of goal to
16:06
Iron Man's, and now the micro goals are just longer swims,
16:09
longer bike rides, longer runs. And so that all worked.
16:14
But I, I did the swim. It's 4.8 miles and then 224
16:19
miles on the bike and that wears out your legs.
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You know, you're just tired and your legs wobble and everything.
16:25
But then you have two marathons to run and the first marathon.
16:29
I love the way I was thinking. I was thinking, wow, I only have
16:33
one marathon to go, and just to talk about a marathon like that
16:36
to myself made me laugh, you know?
16:40
But at mile 32, I started seeing white spots and I started
16:46
wobbling a little bit on the run.
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And I started, excuse me for saying this on the show, but I
16:51
was vomiting and spitting up bile and green bile was choking
16:55
on it actually. And then I passed out.
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And I had passed out, passed out a number of times by pushing
17:01
myself too hard. But this one taught me a really
17:03
good lesson because when I woke up, I had all the bile on my
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mouth and I saw all these cyclists and runners going by.
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And I was wondering, what am I sleeping outside for?
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And I didn't know how long I was out for.
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I was thinking, wow, I'm in the middle of a double Iron Man.
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I got to get up and finish. So I finished the race.
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I got the medal, but I realized something.
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Any time I may have said something like this is too hard,
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I can't put up with this pain. This is too physically taxing
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for me. If I ever said anything like
17:33
that, I was wrong because I realized that day if something
17:38
really is too hard or too taxing or too challenging and you're
17:42
doing something physical, your body will let you have the break
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it needs. You'll pass out.
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You get the break you need. When you get up, you're OK.
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And that's what happened. So anytime I ever hear anybody
17:54
say, no, I'm too tired, this is too tough, this is too
17:56
difficult, I remind them that if it really is, your body will do
18:02
you the favor. You'll pass out.
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You can get your micro nap, your, your, your cat nap.
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You get up and you can finish your objective.
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And so those are those things that happened in my life.
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I turn them around and made it a good lesson that fuelled me for
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years to come. That's amazing.
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Did you win some kind of record or something, or were you to do
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2? Has anybody else ever done that?
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Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a, there's a group of
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them called International Ultra Triathlon Association.
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So and, and, and I have to say, I can't brag by any means.
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You know, an Iron Man, a lot of people have done Iron Man's a
18:43
double. Quite a few people have done
18:46
double S. They've been people have done
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triples and then they put on a Decker which is 10 Iron Man's
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and then they did a double Decker which is 20 Iron Man's.
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You do 1A day basically. And then the last big one was in
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Italy. It was 30 Iron Man's in a row.
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So my double is nothing. I mean those guys use those as a
19:10
little micro goal to reach to the macro goal which would be 30
19:15
Iron Man's. Wow, that's impressive though.
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I mean, two in a day, that's impressive.
19:21
I, I'm, I would be good to do 1 and my body would say, OK, you
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need to take a nap right now. You're done here.
19:31
We're going to pass out and then we'll let you maybe get back up.
19:34
We'll see. We'll have a discussion.
19:39
That's funny. Yeah.
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But then what happened after doing those?
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You know, 2 Iron Man's only takes one day.
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But then I went on to 3:00 and 5:00 and 10:00 and 12:00 day
19:53
events in the mountains and in the jungles and in the deserts
19:57
where it wasn't just some road or park where you're running and
20:00
biking and swimming and you have everything on your back.
20:04
And they were called adventure races.
20:06
And you really pushed yourself to hallucinations in those.
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And it's really bleeding, passing out or hallucinating
20:14
and, and, and, and I, I love doing those adventure races.
20:18
I mean, I was a race director in the United States.
20:20
I put on the biggest races in the world.
20:23
I competed at a high level and I had an adventure racing camp.
20:26
So it, I loved adventure racing. And basically it's every sport.
20:30
It's like mountain bike riding, trail running, white water
20:33
swimming, climbing, rock climbing, repelling Dumaring,
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but it's back-to-back to back and the clock doesn't stop and
20:42
an adventure racing. I loved it was because you're
20:44
with three or four other people in the team.
20:46
It's kind of like being on a SEAL squad or in a platoon,
20:49
except for you're not carrying a weapon.
20:51
You have this objective that's a long ways away.
20:54
A lot of challenges to get to it.
20:56
And so it reminded me of the teams.
20:59
Except for you, you know, you're not trying to, you know, avoid
21:03
being shot or shooting anybody like that.
21:05
But I loved it. The sport doesn't exist anymore
21:07
at the big levels like you used to because it's so expensive.
21:11
You know, it was filmed. We filmed them.
21:13
It cost millions of dollars to film them.
21:16
And the average TV viewer who sits on the couch and watches
21:21
TV, they couldn't relate to these people doing these 400 and
21:25
500 and 600 mile races. It was like crazy.
21:29
And it wasn't great TV for them because they couldn't relate to
21:33
it. So the sport kind of went away.
21:35
But wow, it was a lot of fun while it lasted.
21:39
Yeah, I mean, that's incredible. I mean, I I would love to do
21:43
something like that and, and that would be a big goal and
21:46
then I'd have to do some micro goals to get to that big goal.
21:50
But I mean, I think it would be very a, a true test of what you
21:53
can really endure if you're doing something like that.
21:58
So that's really impressive that you're able to put on those
22:02
shows and be able to do all that.
22:04
So you still compete at a high level even if you're not doing
22:08
those shows. What what are you doing now
22:12
around fitness and around keeping keeping up your, you
22:17
know, your mental stamina and your physical stamina.
22:20
Well, if you don't mind if I can say something before I answer
22:23
that you were talking about new doing adventure racing.
22:27
What came about was it started off of marathons and got bigger
22:31
to the triathlon and got bigger to the adventure race.
22:34
And then it took a step backwards and went downhill a
22:37
little bit. And obstacle course racing got
22:39
very, very popular. And I ran a company for obstacle
22:43
course racing called Battlefront.
22:45
Excuse me? And there's basically you're in
22:48
a park and there's obstacles and you run to the obstacles, but
22:51
that tucked the world by storm. And, and people, if they work
22:56
out all the time or they don't work out, they still have a
22:59
blast. And it usually takes an hour to
23:01
three hours to do a whole obstacle course race.
23:04
But Spartan and actually Joe, the creator of Spartan, he's a
23:07
good friend of mine. We used to do a lot of races
23:10
together. He started Spartan and it's,
23:13
it's a huge, huge worldwide success and people from all
23:17
walks of life do these. And the best thing is it takes
23:21
all, a lot of people have never really decided to do something
23:25
physical and got them out to do something physical because you
23:28
don't really have to train or you can go to the other side and
23:31
train hard and do really well. It could be anything in between
23:35
too. So I, I wanted to bring that up
23:37
to you. But you know what, what I, what
23:39
I do, Terry, now I, I work out every day still.
23:42
I, I'm always going to, but if I could tell you, it was kind of
23:47
an evolution what happened to me.
23:49
And back in the early days of the Hawaii Iron Man, the, the
23:53
king of Kona is who we became known as.
23:56
His name is Dave Scott. He's the greatest triathlete in
24:00
in the time and and before he won his first Iron Man, we were
24:05
in Hawaii and I was getting ready to do my second one and I
24:09
said, Dave, how do you stay in such great shape not knowing
24:13
it's going to be the greatest athlete in the world?
24:15
But he said, what wrong? I just don't take any days off.
24:19
I work out every day. The doctors don't like it.
24:21
People say I'm wrong for doing it, but a light bulb went off
24:25
and for the next 22 years I didn't take a day off because of
24:29
him saying that to me. But then what I did, Terry, I
24:32
think this is a lot more important than just exercise
24:36
every day. You know, I talked to a lot of
24:40
people, a lot of kids, a lot of older people, all, all types of
24:44
people. I, I host three TV shows, so I'm
24:46
always talking to people. And a lot of people ask me, hey,
24:51
how can I become a SEAL or a Marine or a mountain climber or
24:55
something physical. And I'd usually like stutter or
24:58
find something to say after a while, but it wouldn't be quick
25:02
and it wouldn't be witty or anything that would I could
25:06
duplicate the next time somebody would ask me.
25:08
But then it dawned on me what Dave Scott said to me that day,
25:12
Just work out every day. I took his advice he gave to me
25:16
and I expanded on it. And now it doesn't only have to
25:19
be for to become a seal or a firefighter or a cop or
25:22
anything. I think it works for anybody in
25:25
every, any category of life they put themselves in any, any
25:30
profession. And that is all you have to do
25:32
is 4 things. When I was working out every day
25:35
without a day off, I knew I had to brush my teeth every day.
25:38
I knew I had to eat and I knew I had to work out.
25:42
And I didn't let anything stop me.
25:44
So now I just expanded that instead of doing one thing every
25:47
day to work out, not just do 4 things every day.
25:51
And I'll use the example if if you want to be a seal.
25:55
So if you want to be a seal, although it could be for a piano
25:58
player, be for a cork, it could be for anybody.
26:00
But if you want to be a seal every day, number one, do
26:05
something that makes yourself stronger.
26:08
And don't expect someone to give you that on a silver platter.
26:11
Like, oh, good, here's a good CrossFit workout, or here's a
26:14
Pilates workout, or here's a home gym workout.
26:17
You figure it out because you need to have that ambition,
26:20
resourcefulness to figure out how I'm going to get stronger
26:23
each and every day and record it and make sure, yeah, yesterday
26:27
did 80 sit ups. Today I've got to do 82.
26:30
But you, you just figure out every day do something to make
26:32
yourself stronger. And #2 again, if this person
26:37
wants to be a seal every day, do something to make yourself
26:41
faster. And I hope that's not too blurry
26:45
behind me. I just noticed it's kind of
26:47
blurry. It's supposed to.
26:49
Be so it's fine. Yeah, OK.
26:52
Every day do something to make you faster.
26:53
So hill sprints, sparkler track workout, sprints in the pool,
26:59
you figure it out. But every day just get out
27:01
there, have a plan and do something to make yourself
27:04
faster. But then I think more
27:06
importantly, every day do something to make yourself
27:10
smarter. So if you do want to be a SEAL,
27:13
learn and research what the Seals were doing in World War 2
27:17
when it was underwater demolition team learned what
27:20
they were doing in Korea and Vietnam.
27:23
You know, they really made the name for themselves in Vietnam.
27:26
Learned about those small unit tactics and all that they did
27:29
with the with the, you know, going from the water into the
27:33
jungles and then Gulf War in Iraq and Afghanistan in the 90
27:38
plus countries they're in now. Study what they're doing and
27:42
then learn to parachute, go take a skydiving course, learn to
27:45
dive, take a a diving course and learn to shoot.
27:48
No weapons, no handguns, long guns and shotguns.
27:52
And, and every day do something to make yourself smarter.
27:56
So you're getting stronger every day and faster and smarter.
27:59
But then most importantly, every day go out and make sure you do
28:05
something good for somebody else.
28:07
That could be anybody. It could be the janitor who
28:11
can't get the trash bags out of the basement of the school.
28:14
It could be your mother doing dishes.
28:16
It could be the man next door, you know, raking his leaves.
28:20
But just be in the habit of always wanting to help people.
28:24
And because then if if I talk to a 12 or 13 year old boy or 70
28:30
year old man, it really doesn't matter.
28:32
But I love it when I'm talking to younger people because then I
28:35
can say to them, you know, you're 12 or 13 now, if you
28:39
stick with this goal of becoming a SEAL or a Delta Force member
28:43
or a Marine, or you just could be the strongest person at
28:47
selection when you show up and you just might be the fastest
28:52
and you're probably going to be the smartest.
28:55
But most importantly, you're the guy everyone wants on the team
28:58
because you're so used to doing good things for people.
29:01
And in the teams, when we have a really tight team, a squad or a
29:06
platoon or a squadron, when it's really, really tight, the one
29:11
thing he notices, everybody's worrying about each other and
29:14
taking care of each other. And like for instance, the
29:18
commanding officer, he might not be taking care of himself, but
29:21
we all are taking care of him. And he might see that, you know,
29:25
Jimmy over here is just working 18-20 hour days and not taking a
29:29
break. So we look out after him and so
29:33
we look out after our teammates and they look out after us.
29:37
And so that fourth step of always doing something good for
29:41
somebody makes you a really good teammate and a team player.
29:46
I love that. Advice.
29:47
That's great because some people forget one piece of that or
29:51
don't put all those pieces together.
29:53
And you're right, they do make a whole person and they do make
29:56
the, the person everybody wants to be around 'cause I think if
30:00
you're trying to reach your goal, you should put yourself
30:04
with people that are doing what you want to do or learn.
30:09
You want to learn something that they know about.
30:11
So it's good to put yourself in the room with those people
30:14
because you're going to learn something just by being around
30:16
them. And, and you're going to elevate
30:18
your own desires or your own goals by just hearing them talk
30:23
and hearing what's going on with them.
30:25
So I love that advice to really just be in the moment and, and
30:30
really do all the things you need to do.
30:32
But then and then adding that kindness piece and just, you
30:36
know, being the the person that will open the door or that will
30:39
pick up the trash or that will just do something good for
30:42
somebody else. I love that.
30:43
That's awesome. No.
30:45
Thanks. Yeah, I think that's what Dave
30:48
told me back, you know, in the Ironman days, it it made us
30:53
great athletes by taking that advice.
30:55
But how you just said it makes you a better person if you're
30:58
more well-rounded. Work out hard, bring yourself to
31:01
the point of exhaustion, that's great.
31:04
But also work on getting smarter and whatever you're doing as a
31:08
profession, get better at it and learn more about it.
31:11
And then help your teammates and be the teammate everybody wants
31:14
in the team so agree with. That that's great advice.
31:19
So what would you say is your biggest take away from your
31:21
military service? Well, it's funny you asked me
31:28
that. Now.
31:29
If you asked me five years ago, I might have a different answer.
31:32
But I look back, I'm so proud of being part of the military and
31:37
serving where I served and the guys I served with and I, I
31:42
learned so much from from that experience, 21 years.
31:47
And we all had something in common.
31:49
We all raised our hand to defend our country and all of us would
31:54
do whatever it took. We would salute and we'd go.
31:57
And whatever it took, we did it and we loved it.
32:00
And we were there for that reason and we always wanted
32:03
action. We wanted action.
32:06
We just want to be sent wherever the action was.
32:09
We call it chasing the rainbow. We and, and so I have a little
32:14
feel, feeling of guilt because when I came in, Vietnam was all
32:18
over and before the, you know, 9/11 occurred.
32:23
So those years there compared to today, there are relatively very
32:28
tame years. So I, I have a sense of guilt
32:31
that I, I didn't do enough. Well, they're only based on what
32:36
people are doing now. And, and we had it easy in the
32:40
fact that we raised our right hand to serve our country.
32:44
Now this, the question is, are we doing it for our country?
32:50
What do we do? What's the cause of this war?
32:52
What's the reason for this war? Are we being told the truth?
32:55
And you're hearing that all the time now.
32:58
We didn't question it at all, but now it's, is that the truth?
33:02
Is that really why we're going in?
33:05
And you can't really have a military who questions that.
33:08
And it's dangerous. It's dangerous for our country
33:10
to have young folks who have social media and they see what's
33:14
going on all over the world. And and then if you realize
33:19
you're in this war and then you find out years later the war
33:23
wasn't really for what you raised your hand to go fight and
33:27
risk your life, sacrifice your life maybe to do it was for a
33:31
reason that we were lied to. And that really bothers me.
33:35
So that's why I say if you asked me five years ago, my feelings
33:39
weren't as strong then as they are now, that we need the truth
33:46
and we need people to fight in our military and we need great
33:51
people in the military, but we owe them the truth.
33:55
And I, I don't like it at all if I feel that our young folks are
34:00
going into the military or going into war based on the lie.
34:05
And I don't have a specific really why I'm saying that, but
34:08
there's you can only imagine, there's been a lot of talk
34:11
lately, in the last couple years that, you know, a lot of causes,
34:16
a lot of reasons we've gone into war weren't really the reasons
34:20
we went into war. And that bothers me more than
34:22
anything for today's generation. Yeah.
34:27
So Speaking of your service and Speaking of things that have
34:31
gone on, you're an author and so you have a series of books.
34:35
Do you want to tell us a little bit about your books and about
34:39
the the series and, and what kind of information or what kind
34:42
of things somebody can expect in those books?
34:45
Sure. It all started 1998 where a
34:50
politician said to me, Don, you race at the highest levels, you
34:55
put on the biggest adventure races in the world and you're
35:00
you're teaching people, why don't you write a book?
35:03
I said, no, I don't want to write a book.
35:04
Last thing I want to do is be behind a computer.
35:06
I don't want to write a book. So speed it up.
35:11
Now, all these years later, I just finished book #25 Yeah.
35:17
And, but I enjoy the process. I enjoy the process.
35:19
Most of the books, a lot of them I, I want to say a lot of them I
35:24
it wasn't my idea to write them. I was asked to write them by
35:26
either a publisher or or somebody.
35:29
And so I wrote the first book on adventure racing.
35:32
And then when I went to work for the agency, I taught weapons and
35:36
tactics and small arms and my boss said, Don, you got so much
35:40
information on this stuff, why didn't you write a book?
35:42
As I don't want to write another book.
35:43
It's a pain in the neck. I don't want to write a book, he
35:46
said. Look at all the material you
35:47
have, plus as the training officer, as a sealed training
35:51
officer, and then at Seal Team 6 as the advanced training
35:54
officer. So I was a sponge for
35:56
information, always trying to figure out what the best units
35:59
in the world were doing. Never giving away a secret, of
36:02
course, but training you can talk about up to a certain
36:06
point, then you don't talk about it anymore.
36:09
So I decided to write that book and then the Navy contacted me.
36:12
They said the Army has a survival manual, the Air Force
36:15
has one, the Marines do, but the Seals don't have a survival
36:18
manual. Would you write us a survival
36:19
manual? I said no, I don't really want
36:21
to write another book. They said, well, we'll pay you
36:24
upfront and you can have an extra year to write it.
36:26
I said, OK, so this one, I remember 25 books, but you know,
36:31
I have to see Terry and I, I liked all the subjects that I
36:36
was writing on. And the last one I just
36:39
finished, it's called 2 Worlds and I'm working with an Afghan
36:43
national and it's so this book was very moving for me.
36:48
You know, his, his family was threatened by the Taliban.
36:51
His whole existence. He was very poor and starving.
36:55
His father was killed. He, he, he was just lucky to be
36:59
alive. Once they found this little head
37:01
of lettuce on the line and he snuck it home and they ate, his
37:04
family ate off of that lettuce for like a week.
37:07
And then after the war started, he was offered a position with
37:12
like 900 other Afghans to go to this big warehouse because the
37:17
military is going to hire people.
37:19
And he got selected to be a linguist.
37:24
And so he, he learned to speak English and then he became an,
37:28
an, an interpreter. So then he did really, really
37:32
well. And then he joined the military
37:34
as an interpreter of the US military.
37:36
And then he got to work with SEAL Team 6, Blue Team, which is
37:40
where I came from, and he became an interpreter.
37:43
So he went on all these raids and missions and he was, and
37:47
these, when you kick down the door and you go through and do
37:49
these raids, he was usually like #2 and #3 man 'cause he had to
37:53
talk to all the people before the shooting sometimes would
37:56
start. And he was fast broken out of
37:59
the helicopters. He did like hundreds of
38:02
missions. And so it's tragic in a way
38:06
because when, when that when that disaster happened in
38:11
Afghanistan fell and you saw all the pictures on the airport, the
38:15
runway, and people were grabbing on the plane trying to leave
38:18
with the plane leaving. Well, that day, all this hopes
38:22
and dreams were crushed because up to that point, when the
38:25
Americans came in now, people were singing again.
38:28
They were dancing. There's a renewed sense of life
38:31
in Kabul and in Afghanistan. But then we gave away all those
38:36
weapons we gave away. We made basically the 7th
38:40
largest military in the world by everything we gave away.
38:43
And worse than that, we gave away a list of all the names of
38:47
the Afghans who assisted us in fighting the war.
38:51
I don't know why we did that, but we did.
38:54
And there were rumors that Taliban was going door to door,
38:56
cutting out people's tongues who helped us.
38:59
That's not a substantiated rumor because I researched that when I
39:02
was writing the book. But so anyways, Khalib, he had a
39:08
terrible, terrible life, but then he was so happy to be part
39:13
of the United States. He only knew the United States
39:16
through Hollywood in the movies. And now he's able to work with a
39:19
Tier 1 unit. And then everybody's gone home.
39:22
Everyone's gone home. And now the Taliban's
39:25
threatening his. I mean, if they found him,
39:27
they're just going to kill him. And it took him a couple years
39:30
to finally get permission to get to the United States.
39:33
And then what he did, he became an Army Ranger.
39:36
He went to Ranger training. And he did that for years up
39:39
until recently when he joined into law enforcement ranks and
39:43
became a police officer. So he just, all he wants to do
39:46
is give and his country, he lost his country.
39:50
He lost his family, but he just kept giving and giving and
39:53
giving. So a story like that, it's not
39:56
my story at all. I just helped write the book for
39:59
him. I mean that that something like
40:01
that really excites me especially.
40:04
All he wants to do is get his story out so people knew what
40:08
what really went on beyond the news headlines.
40:12
Yeah, there's always the story, the public facing story and then
40:16
there's a story behind the scenes that no one really knows
40:20
about. You know, they only see what
40:23
what wants to be presented or what's palatable, but not the
40:27
other half of it. Like you said, you know, of
40:29
being in desperate poverty and and needing a way out and then,
40:33
you know, doing all these amazing things and then kind of
40:36
being forgotten when we left. So it's that's kind of double
40:43
edged sword like you said, 2 worlds.
40:46
You know, Terry, on that, I went on a a Zoom call with a bunch of
40:50
Seals from Team 6 right after that happened.
40:53
And some really tough, tough, tough guys I respect so much.
40:58
One guy broke down and started crying on the phone call and
41:02
another guy was trying to help him out and another one was
41:04
sobbing. And one said, you know, when
41:07
you're in the military and you spend 20 years in the military,
41:11
usually you lose two or three people close to you, you know,
41:14
relatives, maybe a parent or a brother or sister and maybe a
41:19
handful of friends said, I've lost over 40 close friends, all
41:24
in Afghanistan. And now we're now we're giving
41:28
it up. I just need to make sense of it.
41:31
It's what he was asking for. He says, guys, help me make
41:33
sense of this. I mean, my whole adult wife, I
41:35
was fighting for this country. And then what?
41:39
We give it away? What's the point?
41:41
What's the point of all that? And then that's kind of what I
41:44
was talking about earlier on. We went into Afghanistan because
41:50
they had terrorist training cells, terrorist training camps.
41:54
I can't imagine any sealed platoon not being able to wipe
41:58
out those terrorist training camps.
42:00
I don't believe it takes full military invasion to be there
42:04
for 20 years. And that's what I mean.
42:07
We don't always get the truth that that's that's what I'm
42:11
talking about. And I know we went into Iraq
42:14
because Saddam was, we were told that he had weapons of mass
42:19
destruction. And I've been to Iraq and I've
42:20
been to Afghanistan so many times.
42:22
But I remember when the CIA director came into Iraq, like
42:25
weeks after we invaded, he was wearing body armors, George
42:29
Tenet. And we're just a handful of us
42:31
in there. He said, guys, don't waste your
42:34
time looking for weapons of mass destruction.
42:37
There aren't any. But we got the intelligence that
42:40
was faulty and we based the whole war planning on that
42:45
faulty intelligence to find out that the intelligence was fake,
42:50
that we went in. Why are we staying for 20 years
42:53
is another question I would like to know the answer for.
42:57
So we didn't, you know, you could say, yeah, we did these
43:00
roads, we built those schools, but it wasn't worth all the
43:04
American lives. We gave up.
43:06
And and, you know, that's what I think anyways.
43:09
Yeah, No, I. I have to agree with you.
43:11
And you know, we're we're operating on what we know and
43:15
then when we find out later that it wasn't the way we thought it
43:17
was, it is very disheartening. And then losing lives and
43:22
creating this whole scenario for the people, Afghanistan, Iraq,
43:26
all, all the different countries that we touched is a hard, it's
43:31
a hard pill to swallow because, you know, they were something
43:35
when we were there and then there another thing when we're
43:38
gone. So we put them in harm's way if
43:41
we couldn't take them with us. So it is very disheartening.
43:44
I agree. And.
43:46
So when Khalid asked me to write his book with him, I said no, I
43:51
I really don't want to write another book.
43:52
I said I could. I can send you.
43:55
I can send you a bunch of great writers who would love to help
43:57
you. And he said, no, no, I'd like
44:01
you to work with me. But when the more I heard of his
44:04
story, I was thinking, these are the stories that have to be
44:07
told. This is, this is what writing
44:09
should be about. This is this is information.
44:12
Unless you read something like this or hear something like that
44:15
first hand, you don't really know what happened over there.
44:19
And now we're hearing it from a guy who lost his brother and his
44:23
father while he was there. And.
44:25
And he gave his whole life to service and not only to his
44:30
country, but mainly to our country.
44:31
He loves both countries. Yeah.
44:34
Wow. So did you train yourself to
44:38
write or did you get any formal training or were were you ever
44:41
interested in writing? I know you said you didn't
44:43
really want to write one, but have you?
44:45
Had you played with that before, or had you started down that
44:49
path before, before writing all these?
44:52
I think in high school, English was probably English and writing
44:56
were probably the subjects I liked least.
44:59
And I think if my English teacher knew I was going to read
45:01
a book, never mind write 1 should probably be rolling over
45:04
in a grave right now. But I had liberal ambition to
45:07
write or anything like that. But when I what changed is when
45:12
I really got into a subject, then writing was part of really
45:18
being into it, not only understanding it and learning it
45:21
and being fully engulfed in whatever that happened to be.
45:25
If it was a sport or training or the seals, I got into something
45:29
100% writing kind of went with that.
45:34
So, so it took me a while to, to adjust to being a writer.
45:39
I still don't even call myself a writer, but I, I think it's part
45:45
of the process of really loving what you're doing and to write
45:49
about it. Because like, for instance, when
45:51
I do talks, I do a talk, it takes an hour long.
45:54
I can't get nearly any of all the thoughts that I want to get
45:58
out. So I wrote a book on that talk.
46:01
And so it helped me with my talks and for adventure racing
46:05
this all that stuff I put in that book, I'd hand the book out
46:09
and then we'd just use it for reference.
46:11
And then also I did some series and the series were based on
46:16
what most likely could be happening overseas without
46:20
giving away any secrets. And so that was educational.
46:24
And so I always had a purpose in it.
46:27
And. And, boy, writing, unless you're
46:29
like a well known writer, I don't think anybody does it for
46:33
the money because you can't really do it for the money.
46:35
You have to do it because you love it.
46:37
And I didn't start loving it until it became part of whatever
46:41
it was I was writing about because I was part of what I was
46:45
doing at that time. Yeah.
46:49
Well, I haven't read 1 yet and I'm, I've put the link in the
46:53
chat and I'm getting ready to order some because I am
46:56
interested to see what, what you're writing about and how
47:00
you're writing. Because I think with all the
47:02
books you've written, you must be really good at it because
47:05
you're, you're really making a name for yourself in the author
47:07
world. So I'm really looking forward to
47:11
delving into those. And, and like you said, you're
47:13
100% you're all in. So if you have a goal in mind
47:17
or, or you're doing something, you're all into that.
47:19
You're not going to just put just a small amount of effort in
47:22
it. You're going to put all your
47:23
effort towards it. So I really love that that's
47:26
your way of being is just going to go all in, whatever that
47:31
means for for that moment or that thing.
47:34
You can just tell. So I'm really interested in your
47:36
motivational talks. Where do you go and who or who
47:39
all of you given a talk to? I'm kind of curious.
47:44
I think I've done about 300 of them now and they, they're all
47:47
over the country. Yep.
47:49
And, and what, you know, what I, I love, I love the connection
47:55
that I, so I should back up by saying, you know, when I was in
47:59
the military, all I knew were military people.
48:02
And then when I went into government and CIA, all I knew
48:04
was military and government. So my world was really isolated.
48:08
There's so much more in the world that I had no experience
48:11
in at all. So that all changed when I
48:14
started speaking with, you know, health organizations, financial
48:18
institutions, I started farmers, you know, you name it.
48:22
I've talked to like probably every type of, you know, career
48:26
field out there. And I love learning about other
48:29
career fields. You know, it's when you're in
48:32
the military, it's like the whole world is military.
48:37
Everybody associated with everything you do has to do with
48:40
the military, which was great at that time.
48:43
But if I had stayed like that for the rest of my life, I would
48:46
have neglected learning about the whole rest of the world.
48:49
And that that's what speaking has done for me.
48:52
And like, for instance, I had dinner with Monica Lewinsky at
48:56
one of these talks. And that was her first time she
49:00
came out in the open since everything that went down with
49:04
her with Bill Clinton. And she had these big, pretty
49:08
brown eyes, and they're all watery.
49:11
And she was sad. And her clothes, she didn't, she
49:15
didn't look like she had much money.
49:17
You know, she looked kind of a little raggedy and but she she
49:23
was as nice as can be. And she stood up and said a few
49:26
words and she said, you know, at one point in life, I was the
49:30
happiest person in the world. I was in love with my boss and
49:34
who happened to be the president of the United States.
49:37
And and then one day I came into work and the world attacked me.
49:43
Not only my office, the White House, not only my family, not
49:47
only the United States, but the whole world attacked me.
49:50
I had to hide from for years. For years I had to hide.
49:55
So I'm just coming out now to just tell people, just be
49:59
careful what you say. Social media can't ruin your
50:02
life. So, but talking with people like
50:05
her and you know, these sports legends, Magic Johnson, he was a
50:11
blast to be with. And Evander Holyfield, another,
50:14
you know, super champion. And I love these these people
50:19
who are very well known to the whole world.
50:22
But to kind of see a little bit of an inner side with them.
50:27
It's I love that. And I get to do that with the
50:30
talks because usually, sometimes I'm just teamed up with somebody
50:33
or I might be the main speaker, they might be the main speaker
50:36
and we switch roles. So learning about these other
50:40
folks and learning about the, the audience to me is it's, I
50:45
love it. I love it.
50:46
I had one guy, he had a big cowboy hat and usually
50:49
everything's pretty fancy. You know, I would say you don't
50:52
have to waste all your money on me like that.
50:54
I don't need all this, you know, the, the limo and all that.
50:57
I don't need anything like that. I just need a regular hotel and,
51:01
you know, don't, don't make a big deal with me, you know, and
51:04
I always tell everybody that. But anyways, there's this one
51:07
place I went in Nebraska, and it was a big, big, like warehouse
51:11
without farm equipment. I was thinking, this is
51:14
different, you know, this is different.
51:16
And you're all older farmers in there.
51:19
I was thinking, what's my talk going to do to these guys?
51:22
And the guy who set it up had a big, deep voice.
51:25
And he came out to meet me afterwards and he had a cowboy
51:28
hat on and he had one of those cowboy neckties.
51:31
Ebolo. Yeah, yeah.
51:33
Yeah. And he put his head down and his
51:36
eyes were all watery and he put his head over his eyes so I
51:38
couldn't see him. And he was adjusting his tie so
51:41
that that meant the world to me. That meant the world to me.
51:44
He said what you said hit me right here.
51:47
So if I can connect with people and they connect with me, vice
51:52
versa. It said the connection's two
51:53
way, of course, to me, tarts, doing these tarts for the last
51:59
25 years or whatever it's been, it's one of the most rewarding
52:02
things I've ever done in all my life, mainly because you learn
52:07
about other people and you learn their ways of life and you just
52:11
learn more about the world by learning more about these
52:13
people. I love doing the talks, but I
52:16
haven't, I don't really have a category.
52:18
It's called reaching beyond boundaries.
52:20
Just whatever you do, there are ways to make yourself push
52:24
yourself so you can reach new levels.
52:27
It's basically what the talk is about having macro goals and
52:30
having the mindset that you can reach those macro goals is what
52:33
it boils down to. So it works for any profession,
52:37
any profession at all. And you know, I just, I just
52:43
just love, I hope that doesn't end.
52:45
I want to keep doing those. You know, it's kind of like you
52:49
do all your things you do in life for a certain amount of
52:52
years, then you write about it for a certain amount of years
52:55
and then you talk about it. So it's all kind of a process I
52:58
think, right it. Is you know it, so you're
53:02
looking back and you're giving other people the information on
53:05
either how to reach their own goals or just how you how you
53:08
attain what you are trying to do.
53:10
And then they can relate it to what they're trying to do, even
53:12
if they're not. The goals aren't the same.
53:14
But like you said, you're touching hearts and you're
53:16
winning minds and that's, well, that's what SIOP does.
53:19
But but that's not, but that's not your goal.
53:23
But I mean, that isn't a center of influence because just
53:26
hearing you talk influences me. Like where are my goals at what
53:30
where I've reached some already, but it's like, what was my
53:33
bigger goal? Do have I reached it?
53:35
Am I going to reach it? And what do I need to do?
53:37
What steps do I need to take to get there?
53:39
So I really love that you really put that seed of hope or of
53:44
excitement in people and really get them to thinking what's next
53:48
for them. Well.
53:50
Thanks, Terry. And, and a lot of times I think
53:53
of things I might say, I think I wish I learned that when I was a
53:58
teenager. I was a younger man.
54:00
I wish I heard something like that when I was younger because
54:03
it would have maybe set me straight or set me on a
54:06
straighter path or, or done more on the path I was on.
54:10
I think if you just, I think everybody can be reached somehow
54:15
or another. You know, I love talking with
54:17
the, you know, I feel terrible for him, but the people who have
54:22
substance abuse issues and you know, I've talked to a lot of
54:27
these people. I've taken him up mountain
54:28
climbing. I took one of the guys up.
54:31
He was, he was got became a heroin addict and the rehab
54:37
center said they'd like me to come talk at the rehab center.
54:41
And this one person's name is Ian.
54:43
I said I think Ian and I could probably bond if I could have
54:47
him for a weekend. And this was in Denver.
54:50
And we can go climb a 14,000 footer.
54:53
You know, it's just a hike, but it's a 14,000 foot hike, one of
54:55
the mountains. And if you let me take him, he
55:00
and I can just talk back and forth.
55:01
I'm not going to, you know, talk to him about how bad drugs are,
55:05
but just to let him when we'll sleep on the side of the trail,
55:09
we'll wake up, we'll start hiking.
55:10
But when he starts seeing the sun come over the the horizon
55:15
and start seeing the other snow capped mountains and then when
55:19
we reached the summit, he's going to think different,
55:22
differently of himself. And so we we did that.
55:27
And he was a young guy, a young fit guy.
55:30
The heroine got the better of him after, you know, up to that
55:33
point. But I said to him at the top, I
55:36
said, Ian, you did such a great job hiking up here.
55:38
And really we have to be off the top by noon time.
55:41
And I don't really like walking that much.
55:43
You're fighting gravity. So you want to run down with me
55:47
And it's about a three hour run. You know, it's like $5.
55:51
And he couldn't say no. Here I am some old guy and he's
55:54
just a young guy. So he came down with me and then
55:58
I said, Ian, you know, that was amazing what you just did.
56:01
As a matter of fact, the weather's clear.
56:04
There's another 14 or a half mile down the road.
56:07
Let's go to another one. Not many people do 2 in one day.
56:11
And he couldn't say no. You know, I, I was, we couldn't
56:14
say no. So we went up there at this Yale
56:18
College female was up there and she goes, you guys moving fast,
56:22
You guys moving really fast. We said, yeah, we, we just want
56:25
to get up and down pretty quickly.
56:27
And Ian already did one of these today.
56:29
She goes, you guys already did 1.
56:31
So she had a crush on him and she was trying to hang out with
56:33
us and she was a Yale. She was doing Yale.
56:36
And we got to the top. I said we run down and she ran
56:38
down with us. I said Ian that's amazing,
56:42
that's amazing. And she asked if she could hang
56:44
out with us. I said I think I happened well
56:47
weekend, let's go do another one tomorrow.
56:50
I said three in two days is incredible and she came with us.
56:53
We got down and did the same thing and now when he's talking
56:56
he's falling asleep on me and I said Ian let's just do one more.
57:01
Let's just do one more. We have time for the 4th one.
57:04
We could do 4 fourteeners in 2 days and he did it and he talked
57:09
about that for years and that girl was all over and she was
57:13
wow, you got you did 414 years in two days.
57:17
And So what I love when things like that happen is the barn was
57:23
being created. We we liked talking to each
57:26
other. We just felt comfortable with
57:27
each other. But then being older and having
57:31
experienced more life than he has, I think I found a way where
57:36
I could let him make his own decision about pushing himself
57:41
harder and doing something that he's going to be very proud of
57:44
doing and doing. 114, It was great.
57:47
And then when he did two in one day and then four in two days.
57:51
So that carried him through for many, many years.
57:54
Then he had to relapse. But then it, he came back to it
57:57
and then he became a mountain rescue person out in the
57:59
mountains and he went to school to be an EMT.
58:02
So stories like that, like when situations like that evolve like
58:07
that, to me, it makes all that exercise, all that working out,
58:11
all the talks and you can pinpoint it to one person and
58:15
help that person for who knows how long.
58:18
It makes it all worth it to me. That's that's the the payback
58:21
rate there well. And that one person, then it
58:25
goes to another person. So it's a ripple effect.
58:28
It's like when you throw a stone in the pond, then you see the
58:31
rings come out and they go out and they go out.
58:33
So maybe you're impacting 2, three, 1000.
58:37
But how how many lives are those people impacting?
58:40
You know, that's what you have to look at, is it not?
58:43
You know, you just think, you know, maybe somebody like me,
58:45
like I talked to somebody and maybe I influenced them to do
58:48
something and I'm like, well, it's just one person, but then
58:51
how many people beyond that one person are impacted?
58:54
So you going out and doing all those talks, you don't know how
58:58
many people are being impacted and and in a positive way from
59:02
all those people that have attended one of your sessions
59:05
and really, you know, resonated with what you said and then
59:09
impacted other people on the other side of that.
59:11
So I think your legacy is going to be huge from all the people
59:16
you've talked to that, you know, they're like, you know, that Don
59:19
guy, he's really got something like he's really got it figured
59:23
out. And I figured it out because he
59:25
gave me the tools. So then they're going to be
59:27
impacting others. So I really think that you're
59:29
doing amazing work and I I sure hope that you get to see a lot
59:35
of those success stories come back to you.
59:39
Thanks so much. Thank you for that.
59:42
And also you're doing that as well.
59:45
I mean, just doing what you do for career and and you, you, you
59:49
are serving veterans and you're serving people who love veterans
59:53
and that's what you decided to do.
59:55
So you're doing it each and every day.
59:57
So I applaud what you're doing for sure.
59:59
Well, thank you. Well, I.
1:00:00
Appreciate that. So if you want to know more
1:00:03
about Don, his information is there on the screen and then his
1:00:07
books on Amazon, the link is there and that's also in the
1:00:10
chat. So Don, I want to thank you so
1:00:12
much for coming on tonight. I really appreciate our talk.
1:00:15
I really enjoyed it and I look forward to reading your books.
1:00:18
Well, thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me on
1:00:21
the show. Absolutely.
1:00:23
Well this is tracer round signing off.
1:00:27
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