Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Selly The Rapper | The Christian Reeve Podcast #313

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Selly The Rapper | The Christian Reeve Podcast #313 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
• 0:02
  Podcast. Today's guest is a rapper.
• 0:05
  It's been a while since I had a rapper on the show.
• 0:07
  His name is Cameron Cell AKA Sally the Rapper.
• 0:11
  Welcome to the show, How you doing?
• 0:12
  Yeah, not too bad mate. I'm it's quite sunny where I am
• 0:15
  so I'm looking forward to getting out there.
• 0:18
  I'll keep you for too long. Yeah, it's a bit.
• 0:23
  It's a bit crazy, I know. Oh, fucking.
• 0:24
  We're going to talk weather, aren't we?
• 0:25
  It's crazy outside in in England right now.
• 0:29
  I mean, it's May time and May time's like my birthday, so I
• 0:32
  don't expect it to be this warm. And somehow it is.
• 0:35
  I don't know what the fuck. Obviously when there's.
• 0:38
  Listen, it's I get the feeling that this is our summer, mate.
• 0:41
  No, you've just jinxed us now. No, I mean I, I can't help but
• 0:49
  agree with you. I think like I what I predict is
• 0:54
  warm rain in June. That's what I reckon.
• 1:00
  And though you know, you know what you get with British
• 1:02
  weather near enough, you know what I mean.
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  It's bipolar. I saw a video the other day
• 1:06
  where this is that comedian, I think his name is Jack Joseph.
• 1:09
  And he was, he did the like I've said this in the past, I think
• 1:13
  UK weather is bipolar and immediate.
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  I think it's only English people tend to or British people will,
• 1:20
  will turn around and know exactly what you mean.
• 1:23
  Because I, I shit, you know, in Manchester there was a day where
• 1:26
  it rained, it snowed it, there was sleet and there was
• 1:30
  sunshine. That was a real day.
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  I can't remember where. It's like a few months back, but
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  I was like, what the fuck is going on?
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  Is this the apocalypse? And these days, I mean.
• 1:42
  Well, anyway, should we talk about you then?
• 1:45
  Yeah. It might be a good show.
• 1:47
  Hey, yeah. Go ahead, let's let's keep it
• 1:51
  simple from the beginning. How did you get into rap?
• 1:53
  How did I get into rap? OK, I mean, you, you say it's a
• 1:56
  simple question, but it's it's really not.
• 2:00
  I've, I've made a, it's a trauma like things I've been through
• 2:04
  and not feeling, not feeling represented or listened to at
• 2:08
  all. I think that's why I got into
• 2:10
  that. So like I when I was younger,
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  you know, I had, so I won't go too far into like what actually
• 2:15
  happened to me. But essentially I needed like
• 2:17
  camps, which is like child mental health services down here
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  in the but I just felt that like I wasn't listened to.
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  They were, they were sort of just trying to tick a box by
• 2:27
  having me there. And yeah, no, that's the reason
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  why I turned, why I turned to music, because I could be more
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  vulnerable on my own than what I could in front of those people.
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  Do you know what I mean? Yeah, no, I totally get where
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  you're coming from. From, from like a trauma
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  standpoint. I think I've always used music
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  as like a source of therapy. Maybe it's not the greatest
• 2:49
  idea, I don't know. But to me it seems more
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  constructed to be like, here's this emotion, here's this thing
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  I'm going through, why not turn it into something?
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  And then there's almost like a sense of release or distance or
• 3:01
  something. And, you know, it's remarkable
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  because you move on with your life and that thing still
• 3:07
  happened, but it's like it can't hurt you anymore.
• 3:10
  It is what it is. And then other people will come
• 3:13
  out and just be like, oh, my God, I heard this song, this
• 3:16
  thing you're singing about, this thing you're rapping about.
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  And I connect with it. I relate to it.
• 3:21
  And you're like, oh, shit. Yeah.
• 3:22
  Like, I, yeah. I mean, because did you get the
• 3:26
  same thing or is it still very real when you're rapping those
• 3:28
  songs? I mean, like there's, there's
• 3:31
  certain songs that are very like they take me back, right?
• 3:38
  But no, I get what you mean. Like it's, it's great to be able
• 3:40
  to, to turn something so ugly into something beautiful, you
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  know? And it, it like it does it, it
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  takes skill, don't get me wrong. Like it's a, it's a muscle at
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  the end of the day. Like it's something that needs
• 3:54
  to be built on. Like when I first started, like
• 3:57
  it was just screaming, mate, do you know what I mean?
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  It was just, it was just me in my room.
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  Like, I'm so angry, you know what I mean?
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  But as you sort of you mature and you learn how to articulate
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  your, your emotions, like that's when you start making art out of
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  it. But it's it's a rough process
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  getting there, you know what I mean?
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  Well, let's explore that process a little bit.
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  So like you get introduced to rap music for a friend, you
• 4:21
  discover it online. Like how did you sort of
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  discover it initially? Like what?
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  What's the kind of starting point that then took you on that
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  journey? So like I when I was younger I
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  really didn't have many friends so it would just be me like
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  walking around the local city centre just listening to music
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  and then all of a sudden this one, like this one hip hop tune
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  came on. I think it was someone from High
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  Focus Records. And after Dirty Dyke, do you
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  know about Dirty Dyke? It rings a bell, but I don't
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  know. He wrote a song called Pork Pie,
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  right? And it was, it was the hook is
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  like, you'd better walk by it or get force fed a pork pie.
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  It's brilliant. That's brilliant.
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  The vulgarity of it. I've never like you're so used
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  to hearing, especially as a kid, like more commercial polished
• 5:09
  music, you know? And like this, this this vulgar
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  guy from Brighton had just like just made something so dirty and
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  it was so fun to listen to. And I think that was that was
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  the main part where I was like, I want to, I want to create
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  something like that out of my own life.
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  Do you know what I mean? Absolutely.
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  I, I remember when I got into rap that there was so much going
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  on in in the 2000s. Like I guess I discovered rap
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  kind of mostly through video games and skateboarding.
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  So I was a skateboarder for years.
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  I've always been a fan of music when I became a musician, you
• 5:45
  know, you, you experiment, you go in different fields, but you
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  normally tend to like, fall into one kind of genre.
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  Probably. I like to explore.
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  But like, I, you know, it's more kind of like rock acoustic.
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  So it's kind of been that kind of, you know, genre.
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  But it's always fun to branch out of that and try different
• 6:02
  things, see what you can do as an artist, right.
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  But in the early days it was just like, OK, there's what you
• 6:08
  hear in the charts. And as you said, like a lot of
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  it's polished. Some of it's really good.
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  There was some good shit in the 2000s.
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  But some of it was like, like the things that would irritate
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  me would be like people would tell me that, I don't know,
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  Bullet for My Valentine is shit, poorly produced music.
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  And then I'm like, all right, well, what's your comparison
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  then? And then they would tell me that
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  N dubs is the height of production and I would just
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  laugh in their face. I was like, I'm not even a
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  production expert at this point at 14, but I know that that's
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  poorly produced music because can hear it at the back of the
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  bus and it sounds shit, you know.
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  But here's the thing, there was so many good grime artists
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  coming up like JME, Skepta, etcetera.
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  So that was like, it was really fun on the British side and on
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  the American side, like early 2000s hip hop was was crazy, you
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  know, and I kind of fell in love with the 90s, early 2000s stuff
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  like your bigger groups like say Jurassic Five and who else.
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  Any idea? It was kind of fun.
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  I mean, I know it was a bit more poppy, but you know, it branched
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  down to other things anyway. What?
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  So, OK, so you went more kind of underground with it.
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  Was there any, is there any other like major artists that
• 7:19
  have kind of influenced your style?
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  I know that's like the obvious question to answer.
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  Like there's certain things I hear in in your rapping, but
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  like for you, who are the ones that stand out?
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  OK, so it it depends what Ave. of creation I'm trying to go
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  down, but I'd say for my more like double time quick intense
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  flows, it's got to be gets formerly ghetto or ocean wisdom.
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  Those are the 2 for me where I draw a lot of inspiration.
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  I think at the start, like I was like a carbon copy of them to be
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  honest with you. But as I've as I've matured,
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  like I've taken that flow and made it my own.
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  Do you know what I mean in terms of like slower hip hop, I would
• 8:03
  say I'll probably keep it UK with loyal Karna.
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  Like I've really I love the do you know what I mean?
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  Like that profile. I can do it on a mic.
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  If I'm on a microphone, I can like I can convey that tone, but
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  it's quite difficult to just right now.
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  But you know what I mean in it that low, sort of the low end,
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  like do you know what I mean? It's almost like it, it touches
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  a different part of my brain to the double time, like the higher
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  tones, you know what I mean? Like it's a lot warmer.
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  It's like it makes me feel a lot more comfortable.
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  So like I usually reserve that kind of flow for things that you
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  need to be a little bit more gentle to explain.
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  So like my own trauma and my own, my own issues, you know, I
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  feel like it wraps it up in a nice little bowl.
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  OK. Can I throw a personal question
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  and then relate it to me? Is that all right?
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  Yeah. So did you ever have like
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  therapy for what you dealt with? Yeah, yeah.
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  OK. So taking that into account and
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  then with how you branch, like do your songwriting, stuff like
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  that, is there like certain things you have ways you have to
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  be careful or do you just kind of go, all right, I'm going to
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  explore this for a bit. I'm going to get into that
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  headspace for a bit and then I'm going to take myself out of it.
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  Like do you have like a process for that?
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  Like how do you deal with that? What as in like not letting it
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  like get to me? Oh, yeah.
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  I mean, because let's, let's face it, human beings, for the
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  most part, I don't think we fully understand the nature of
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  trauma. It can affect us in different
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  ways. Like people laugh at, you know,
• 9:40
  triggers as a word, but it's a very real thing.
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  I've seen it, you know, I get it.
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  It's, it's not something that's supposed to be logical because
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  the brain, I don't think where that's concerned, isn't logical.
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  Like your brain protects you. You know, this is what people
• 9:55
  don't realize that when you go through something really fucked
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  up or you're dealing with some stuff, like your brain can sort
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  of compartmentalizes, it protects you.
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  This is why so many people that have had like really, really
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  traumatic events have like memory loss.
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  They just don't remember because your brain is trying to protect
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  you because similar to how if you suffer like a real serious
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  physical injury, your body goes into shock to protect you.
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  Because if you actually felt that pain, you, I don't know, I
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  don't know what would happen. It would be really bad.
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  You wouldn't be able to cope. And I, I, I imagine, you know,
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  I'm not a brain chemistry expert, but I feel like it's the
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  same with the mind. But obviously when you're
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  bringing that back to, OK, I'm going to use this, I'm going to
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  explore this and try to make something creative out of it.
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  It's it's dangerous waters. I feel sometimes, you know, like
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  I, I had some sort of like traumatic personal relationships
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  years ago and I wrote a lot of songs, quite a few songs on my
• 10:55
  album that ended up being about that.
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  But like, I wrote about them years ago after, you know, we
• 11:02
  sort of broke up and then there's years and years that
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  have passed, then I start writing music again.
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  And then like a few years later, it's like, oh, OK, I'm going to
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  do this album. Let's use some of these tracks,
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  right? So like, so much time has passed
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  that it's like, it's just kind of like an old memory, very
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  distant that doesn't, you know, I sort of recognize if I think
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  about it, but then it's like it doesn't affect me anymore, you
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  know? But I feel like it's very real
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  in the moment when you're riding it.
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  Yeah, I mean, you can. An important thing to
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  acknowledge is it would never be reliving.
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  That is never as bad as actually living that, no matter how much
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  time has passed. Right.
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  But strangely, like I don't I don't necessarily feel the I
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  have any sort of like my heart is in troubled by revisiting
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  that place. If anything, I, when I do take
• 11:58
  the essence of that experience and I put it in a track really
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  well, there's a sense of pride that comes off comes comes off
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  of what I've done. Like I don't like, I don't
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  necessarily feel that like it rubs off on me too much.
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  Obviously, listen, I've got PCSD.
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  So there's going to be an element of, you know, something,
• 12:19
  something coming back to me or certain images in my head, but
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  there's no, there's no real danger.
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  And after a long time of, I'm trying to respect that and
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  realise that it's a lot easier for me to write now.
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  But if you were to ask me four years ago, yeah, no, it's,
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  there's been many times where like I'm in the hole rather than
• 12:42
  rapping about the hole that I was in, you know.
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  So that's the times where where you're really living it and
• 12:48
  you're really inside here. That's when it gets really
• 12:51
  difficult. Just probably like a couple of
• 12:54
  months ago. I've got a track called
• 12:55
  Interlude. So from just a bit of inside
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  context here from October last year to probably about a month
• 13:03
  or two ago, like I was homeless. So like I a bit of like a bit of
• 13:08
  a stupid move to be honest, but I was, I was with a woman and we
• 13:11
  were living together. I put all my eggs in that basket
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  and then it just fell apart. You know what I mean?
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  And you know, it's these, these things happen.
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  You know, I've got any malice towards her or anything like
• 13:21
  that. But I was homeless and I had to
• 13:24
  go live with my uncle in Kent. And like, I didn't realise when
• 13:29
  I go, when I went to live with my uncle that he was like a
• 13:31
  massive cocaine addict, right? Like his in the, in the month
• 13:35
  that I, that I spent there, he spent 30 grand on back.
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  Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah.
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  Like it's not, it's not a joke, bro.
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  Like being around that at a time where I needed to focus on
• 13:48
  myself, like I spent all my time.
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  Yeah, he's if he ever hears this, he's going to kill me.
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  But it's the truth. Like it's, it was so hard trying
• 13:59
  trying to worry about him and get him to a a meetings, CA
• 14:04
  meetings. I was even trying to take him to
• 14:05
  church and just just get him out of that position.
• 14:08
  When in reality I was, I was no better, you know.
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  So it's, it was that was a difficult time writing and I
• 14:15
  wrote a song called Interlude around it.
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  And yeah, like every time for the first probably like 10 or 15
• 14:22
  times I would hear that track once I've been to the studio
• 14:25
  with it, like it sends me back to that place.
• 14:28
  And like all of that darkness and confusion and trying to, I'm
• 14:32
  trying to trying to focus on myself, but worrying about my
• 14:36
  uncle, like ultimately dying. You know, it's, it's not a
• 14:39
  school amount of cocaine that he's doing.
• 14:42
  So no, that, yeah, that's the only time recently where I feel
• 14:46
  like I've had that even if I listen to it now, it would take
• 14:49
  me back there. But that that's more testament
• 14:52
  to how well the writing was rather than the difficulty of
• 14:56
  the writing, you know? Yeah, I, I guess it goes back to
• 14:59
  the kind of the unpredictability of, of memories as well, 'cause
• 15:03
  I, I still get it so very rarely, but every now and again
• 15:06
  I'll be playing a track from my album or something like that
• 15:09
  live and I'll start singing it. And I don't know, maybe it's
• 15:12
  like the feeling of the night. Maybe it's like you're just in
• 15:15
  your fields, I don't know. But you, you start to think a
• 15:18
  lot about it and you're like, wow, I've not thought about this
• 15:21
  in quite some time. And, you know, human emotions,
• 15:24
  if you're tapped into that, if you really choose to acknowledge
• 15:27
  them, it's powerful, you know, and of course, you know,
• 15:31
  songwriting and music is, is all about storytelling, isn't it?
• 15:34
  It's, it's what we do. It's, it's reliving stories,
• 15:37
  memories, everything. And it's all sort of tied
• 15:40
  together in this ball and you're, you're kind of
• 15:43
  showcasing it every time you, you rap, you sing, you know,
• 15:46
  you're showing other people. It's not like an insight into
• 15:49
  your mind and insight into your life.
• 15:52
  And it's kind of like they take it for what you will.
• 15:56
  You know, it's, it's up to you, you make your decision.
• 16:01
  Which brings me into my next question.
• 16:02
  What what's kind of your approach to to songwriting?
• 16:05
  I've always found it fascinating how rappers work because like,
• 16:10
  OK, maybe it's a dumb fuck question to ask a rapper, but I
• 16:14
  think it's a fair question. Can you freestyle?
• 16:18
  So, right, OK, let's let's let me let me pick this apart
• 16:22
  because this is become part of my like writing process is
• 16:27
  freestyling. Because I feel like when you
• 16:30
  freestyle where you're having to just come up with all of it off
• 16:33
  the top of your head, you're not worried about perfection and
• 16:36
  more authentic moments come out When you create, you create like
• 16:43
  even like a four bar or something like that off the top
• 16:45
  of your head, which is just so like you just have a feeling
• 16:49
  around it, you know? And when you have that feeling
• 16:52
  around even like a four bar or like a word, right, It gives you
• 16:56
  a prompt. And that's that's how I get
• 16:58
  started with writing nowadays. Before I would have to wait like
• 17:04
  a month or two before it all sort of boils over inside me and
• 17:09
  I physically can't do anything but talk about it or write about
• 17:12
  it. However, now I've started,
• 17:14
  started sort of freestyling to start with because then I can
• 17:18
  gauge off what's come out my mouth, what I'm feeling and what
• 17:24
  I, what I'm liking. And then I can build off that,
• 17:27
  you know, so that that that's just something that I've adopted
• 17:30
  even like within the past week, to be fair.
• 17:34
  Yeah, I mean, it's it's amazing to watch in real time.
• 17:36
  Like, I do sound on Wednesdays at an open mic, and there's this
• 17:41
  rapper that's shown up either the past two weeks or like twice
• 17:45
  this month, and he's freestyling.
• 17:48
  And he was doing it where he's like, right, just lay down a
• 17:50
  beat, give me a beat, give me this style of beat, this style
• 17:52
  of beat. And it was interesting to see
• 17:56
  how with certain tracks, he really felt it.
• 17:58
  And it was, you could see him thinking in real time, like, OK,
• 18:01
  I'm talking about this now. I'm talking about this.
• 18:02
  And he was just, it's almost like a comedian doing crowd
• 18:05
  work. Like he's just kind of taking
• 18:07
  like what's going on here. He's thinking about what the
• 18:10
  tracks making him think of. And then there are other tracks
• 18:13
  that even I would admit like, because it's like we hadn't pre
• 18:16
  listened to them. It was just kind of off the fly.
• 18:18
  I remember throwing one on and being because I thought, Oh, I
• 18:21
  want to hear him do some like 90s style rap, right.
• 18:23
  So I threw on like a like an Ice Cube style beat and it was the
• 18:28
  deadest beat ever. And I was like, and he he was
• 18:31
  making it work, but I was just like, no, I want to hear him
• 18:34
  like go for it. And then my my Co host put like
• 18:38
  an Afro beats vibe on She's rapping, he's rapping and he's
• 18:42
  feeling that a lot more. And it's like, yeah, this is
• 18:43
  working. This is where we need to be.
• 18:48
  But like I like one of my brothers can do it.
• 18:50
  And it's it's amazing to watch. Like the only thing I could do
• 18:55
  even close to that is like Blues.
• 18:58
  Like, you know, that's kind of, you know, you just talk about
• 19:00
  whatever makes you sad and just do the Pentatonix scales and
• 19:03
  you're fine. Something now I think it's I
• 19:06
  think it's interesting that you say about the like the beats and
• 19:10
  whatnot in terms of what he was feeling.
• 19:13
  I think as someone who like freestyles, that particular sort
• 19:19
  of concept is that you're supposed to like compliment the
• 19:22
  beat. Do you know what I mean?
• 19:24
  Like your your flaws and the way that you freestyle are so
• 19:27
  entangled with the beat, like subconsciously when you're
• 19:31
  freestyling, I believe anyway. But it's important to know.
• 19:35
  I think the way the what my dad would say, OK, is it if you have
• 19:39
  a bad beat, a rapper's never going to make it good.
• 19:41
  OK? So what he would say is you
• 19:43
  can't Polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.
• 19:45
  You know what I mean? Like like.
• 19:48
  Going. To make it sound better, but
• 19:50
  unless the beat is, you know, up to that same standard, it's it's
• 19:53
  still going to be crap. So.
• 19:55
  But yeah, continue. No, I agree.
• 19:58
  Like I, I think you can, you can use that mindset with other
• 20:01
  things in life where you can always kind of OK.
• 20:05
  Like I'm a big wrestling fan, right?
• 20:07
  And they, they, they often say chicken salad out chicken shit.
• 20:11
  Like same principle. Like if it's a bad storyline,
• 20:15
  it'll be difficult to make it work.
• 20:16
  And there have been some instances where people have made
• 20:18
  it work. You know, they took something
• 20:20
  really silly and stupid that doesn't really help anyone and
• 20:23
  they got it entertaining. But then like the better
• 20:27
  storylines are the ones that like, you know, you're, you have
• 20:31
  your emotions, you feel the build up is great.
• 20:34
  You know, there's a big pay off. You know, you've been
• 20:36
  anticipating it for a while. Like it hits all the points.
• 20:39
  And I think that like that's kind of like what it is with
• 20:44
  matching a beat with the right flow.
• 20:46
  It's kind of like, OK, we can put something that sounds all
• 20:49
  right. We can put something that sounds
• 20:51
  like a mismatch and then we can also put something together that
• 20:55
  like it just hits on all accounts, You know, like the
• 21:01
  amount of times I've seen certain rappers just listening
• 21:05
  to certain beats, like, you know, like you get those classic
• 21:07
  videos where they hear the beat that are like a famous beat
• 21:10
  before and they're like, oh, they're listening.
• 21:12
  They're kind of like analysing it in their head.
• 21:13
  Like I could do something like that.
• 21:14
  I could do, I could do this, could do this could do.
• 21:16
  And, and, and what I think that is, maybe I'm just theorizing.
• 21:20
  You're the expert is try to match the like how they would
• 21:24
  rap to it to that beat. Yeah, yeah, I I think you're
• 21:30
  definitely on to something there.
• 21:32
  The psychology of rapping. Strange though, because you
• 21:37
  can't, I don't think you can theorize rap like in, in terms
• 21:42
  of in terms of, well, you can in like lyrical content and like
• 21:48
  how the flow works, but there's always going to be an element
• 21:52
  about people and how they come on the mic that you're never
• 21:56
  going to be able to theorize because it's down to the
• 21:59
  individual well. What I will say is, is that no,
• 22:05
  no, I think I think you're on something.
• 22:07
  I just think that I mentioned rap psychology is kind of like
• 22:12
  1/2 joke there, but I I think it, there is a thing there.
• 22:14
  I think that the way that rappers think is totally
• 22:18
  different to like singers, guitarist, there's an element of
• 22:24
  similarity as far as like maybe like songwriting is concerned.
• 22:27
  So like if you have a guitarist that knows their instrument well
• 22:31
  enough, they'll be able to come up with stuff on the fly.
• 22:34
  Like I did it last night. I there was an unpracticed song
• 22:37
  and I was paying attention to how my singer was singing it and
• 22:42
  I was like, all right, we'll go slower here, we'll bring it up
• 22:44
  here. You know, it's just kind of like
• 22:46
  feeling the energy of what's going on and, and reacting
• 22:49
  accordingly. And I feel like you see it
• 22:52
  especially in rap freestyles like battles and stuff between
• 22:55
  two people. I know that obviously, and we'll
• 22:58
  get into this thing in a second, but the idea there is I need to
• 23:03
  destroy my opponent, but I need to pay attention to what they're
• 23:07
  saying, think about my response and so on and so forth.
• 23:11
  But that there's that that psychology element is is has
• 23:15
  always fascinated me about rappers and whether it's writing
• 23:19
  down, you know, lyrics and, and figuring out over time and
• 23:23
  putting it on record or doing it in the moment, like the way the
• 23:28
  mind works for a rapper, I feel is completely different.
• 23:31
  And you're right, No2 rappers are the same like that.
• 23:34
  There will be similarity, maybe like in how ideas come.
• 23:38
  But ultimately, yeah, every person is different.
• 23:41
  Every human being is different, But I digress.
• 23:44
  It's it's a fascinating psychology study, I feel, I feel
• 23:51
  there's a lot there that could be done.
• 23:52
  There's a thesis way into the Oh yeah, Oh yeah.
• 23:55
  But someone, someone else can write that.
• 23:57
  I'll just do the podcast. University made me hate reading.
• 24:03
  Like I'll do it for, for research purposes and I'll sit,
• 24:06
  listen to audiobooks all day. But sitting and studying papers
• 24:10
  is some of the most dullest stuff ever.
• 24:12
  So thanks Uni for that. Now like I, I can read books,
• 24:18
  but like I just get, I find myself getting tired, right?
• 24:22
  This is why I listen to audio books now, because I just, I've
• 24:25
  always been more visual and audio, audio and stuff.
• 24:28
  I prefer all of that. But it's difficult to just sit
• 24:32
  there with a book with a fixed thing and and just do it.
• 24:36
  You know, I really have to get obsessed with the thing before I
• 24:39
  can do that. Like, I don't know.
• 24:42
  Anyway, before we move on to diss tracks, because I could see
• 24:46
  you poked up there and I've got so much to ask you, man.
• 24:52
  You've kind of touched on that a little bit, but give us an idea
• 24:55
  of some of the key themes that you explore in your lyrics.
• 24:57
  Like what kind of makes you different to everyone else this
• 25:01
  out there? Right.
• 25:04
  Those are two separate questions, right?
• 25:07
  What what makes me different? We'll we'll answer that one.
• 25:11
  I think what, what makes me different is that there's, I was
• 25:14
  just speaking to, I think a couple of people about this
• 25:18
  yesterday. What makes me different is that
• 25:20
  there's so many artists at my level that look to more popular
• 25:28
  artists in say, America, and they try and emulate that flow
• 25:33
  too much because they they haven't matured enough on beat
• 25:40
  to become themselves and find their own sound.
• 25:42
  So what's different about me is that I can take those flows and
• 25:47
  say from America, but retain my own Britishness when delivering
• 25:52
  them. Yeah, I mean, I love American
• 25:57
  rap as much as the next guy, but British rap, Yeah.
• 26:00
  I have a friend who's like, he knows his raps name is Sam, and
• 26:04
  he just straight up said, you know, he just didn't like
• 26:08
  British rap, kind of finds it uninspiring.
• 26:11
  And I get it. He's grown up with like Wu Tang
• 26:13
  and stuff. So like for him, that's where
• 26:15
  rap is. And I would tend to agree.
• 26:17
  Like some of the classics tend to be more American, but we have
• 26:21
  some amazing, amazing rappers in this country.
• 26:24
  And, you know, every now and again, I look at the underground
• 26:27
  scene, I can see certain people that I'm like, with the right
• 26:32
  production, with the right resources, this person could be
• 26:35
  huge, you know? And we have seen a few notable
• 26:38
  examples of, like, commercially successful British rappers, you
• 26:42
  know, it has happened. But for some reason, I don't
• 26:46
  know if it's like the accent that is against us when it comes
• 26:49
  to rapping and stuff, but that does kind of make us stand out
• 26:56
  sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worst.
• 26:58
  You know, when you think about artists like let's say Dizzee
• 27:02
  Rascal, I can't remember if he's had a lot of success in America,
• 27:06
  but it's like very distinctly English.
• 27:10
  When you hear him rapping, you know, you can it's it's right
• 27:13
  there, you know, or Stormzy or, you know, I feel like Stormzy
• 27:16
  is, is kind of bridges the gap a little bit better.
• 27:18
  But you know, it's, it's there. And it's a shame when you see
• 27:23
  British rappers sort of go, I know I need to, I need to just
• 27:26
  completely just scrap this and just, you know, and it's the
• 27:28
  same with singers, you know, like, Oh, I need to sound
• 27:30
  American. So, well, you're British, man.
• 27:32
  Like it's it's going to happen. You know, look, I've, I've got
• 27:35
  like a song that I sing that's kind of in a more country for
• 27:38
  that, but then that's kind of like a country style song.
• 27:40
  So I just sing it that way. I didn't think like I want to
• 27:43
  sound American. I just it just happened.
• 27:46
  That's the thing that I hear a lot of rappers, like it's
• 27:50
  definitely underground. None of them have made it.
• 27:51
  And if they carry on, they probably won't.
• 27:53
  But but like they're rapping like they're from probably from
• 27:57
  like, I don't know, Barnstaple, you know what I mean?
• 28:00
  They're rapping like they're from Detroit.
• 28:02
  Home of home of rap Barnstable. Mate, And they're doing it in
• 28:07
  like American accents. And it's like, well, it's not
• 28:09
  you, is it? You know what I mean?
• 28:10
  The whole point of rap is to, to me anyway, to show who you are
• 28:15
  and what you're about. So like, you have to be as
• 28:18
  authentic as possible. You can't be putting on accents.
• 28:21
  And you know what? I mean, I I just discount to
• 28:24
  mind. This is funny.
• 28:27
  So the place I do the sound at they they for a while they
• 28:30
  trialed a country night. OK, and we all kind of looked at
• 28:33
  that like this is not a good idea.
• 28:36
  Like we, we have all sorts of so it's like a rock venue, right?
• 28:40
  Like rock bar venue, all you know, so you get everything from
• 28:43
  like metal rock, indie bands, rappers, you know, it's well
• 28:47
  known metal rock. People love rap music.
• 28:51
  You know, it's always, it always has, always will.
• 28:54
  But country. I like country music, but I I
• 28:58
  just think it's time and a place.
• 29:00
  Know your audience, you know, and but the worst part about it
• 29:04
  was not even that. The worst part was that they all
• 29:08
  sung in American accents and in between sets they would talk a
• 29:15
  shit you not in an American accent.
• 29:17
  And and my friends were out on a night out.
• 29:19
  Shout out to Josh, you're out, man.
• 29:23
  They were on a night out and like that's their local, so
• 29:26
  they're just hanging out and these guys basically from the
• 29:30
  stage were like having a go at them, like, you know, or you
• 29:34
  know, you need to be quiet this, that and the other.
• 29:36
  And I've always found that disrespectful.
• 29:38
  I think, look, no, look, you're on stage playing right now.
• 29:41
  Don't get me wrong, if people are heckling you and being
• 29:44
  assholes, that's not cool. But my friends were just hanging
• 29:46
  out. They cheered a bit, they danced
• 29:48
  a bit. They just having fun, you know,
• 29:50
  which is what you want. You know, it's better than
• 29:52
  apathy. And it's not like they're
• 29:53
  mocking you, you know, and my friend Josh, you know, when he
• 29:58
  always clowns people in the best possible way.
• 30:01
  And he just called them out on the fact that they were talking
• 30:03
  in American accents. He just called them all bell
• 30:05
  ends and was just like, listen, like you're the Dick heads, like
• 30:09
  choosing to speak in American even though you're British.
• 30:13
  Stop being melts. And he just walked off and
• 30:16
  carried on his knight. And they just looked like twats
• 30:17
  after that. Like you picked up on the point
• 30:23
  perfectly there. Authenticity, it's everything.
• 30:25
  And human beings can see through nonsense.
• 30:29
  You know, like you might be able to fool some people, but most
• 30:33
  people, especially in the rap game, you know, people are going
• 30:36
  to read through that and pick you apart in a brutal fashion.
• 30:40
  So if you're not authentic, if you're not authentic, well, God
• 30:45
  help you. That's all I'm going to.
• 30:47
  Say, and I think it like, but I've got to speak about this
• 30:50
  tracks. It's got to be done right,
• 30:52
  especially when you're dissing each other, right.
• 30:56
  And the other person who is less authentic is sort of playing
• 31:00
  this, this act or has a bit of a facade going on in terms of like
• 31:05
  the difference between the rap life and their actual life.
• 31:09
  Yeah, it doesn't end well. It does not end well, mate.
• 31:12
  Trust me. But I've, I've been on both
• 31:14
  sides of the coin, you know, like when I was younger and I
• 31:18
  was sort of like rap to me was sort of like this act because I
• 31:21
  was able to be seen by people that I wasn't seen before.
• 31:25
  So obviously there was ego with that, you know what I mean?
• 31:28
  Like, and it wasn't justified because I was shit, you know
• 31:31
  what I mean? I was not good.
• 31:33
  Like as a kid, I was not good. So there's always, there was
• 31:36
  always people who were like, right, I'm going to fucking body
• 31:39
  her. And I thank, I thank those
• 31:40
  people now because now I'm, you know, like I'm 20, mate, you
• 31:44
  know what I mean? I've got all this time in the
• 31:46
  world and I've got like a great foundation for, you know,
• 31:50
  carrying on throughout my career.
• 31:52
  However, there's some people that are like older than me that
• 31:55
  still haven't got that authenticity yet.
• 31:57
  And like they, they're at that point that I was at when I was
• 32:01
  16. They've been seen by the people
• 32:03
  and they've got the ego, but they've not been humbled yet.
• 32:05
  Hold up, you're 20 years old on the car.
• 32:08
  Yeah. You've got such a bright career.
• 32:12
  How do you man? Like I, I looked into your stuff
• 32:14
  obviously, and I could tell your delivery was there.
• 32:19
  And because I always pay attention to flow, that's the
• 32:21
  first thing I look out for with the rapper.
• 32:22
  And I was like this, this kids got it.
• 32:24
  Like what kid? I figured you were close to my
• 32:26
  age, but I was like, he's got it.
• 32:28
  How old are? You I'm 32 sound old fucker.
• 32:31
  But I I looked at that and I was like, yeah, this, this is this
• 32:35
  is solid. This is a good UK rapper.
• 32:37
  This is exciting. 20 years old exciting times.
• 32:42
  Keep keep fucking pushing it man, keep working hard, it's
• 32:45
  going to happen. Yeah, man, sure, for sure.
• 32:47
  But yeah. Yeah, this.
• 32:49
  That's diss tracks. What do you people say about
• 32:52
  diss tracks anyway? Oh so much.
• 32:54
  But what I want to do is OK for for those who are not familiar,
• 32:58
  so I'll break it down for you. Diss tracks in general are when
• 33:03
  2 rappers will write songs either specifically dedicated to
• 33:08
  one person or maybe it could be a group or whatever.
• 33:13
  So you've got famous examples of like when Ice Cube left N.W.A,
• 33:18
  he threw a diss track at N.W.A expressing his frustrations with
• 33:21
  the group and and he's he did the same thing.
• 33:24
  Or if you want a more modern, slightly more modern version, in
• 33:27
  Eight Mile, Eminem famously just, you know, the story is
• 33:32
  about his life growing up in Detroit as a rapper.
• 33:34
  And, you know, he destroys this guy in a scene that was played
• 33:38
  by the guy who plays in Captain America.
• 33:40
  I can't remember his name. That's it.
• 33:43
  Anthony Mackie. Yeah.
• 33:44
  So to speak to your point before, like, you know, Anthony
• 33:48
  Mackie's character is like a preppy boy that that's being
• 33:53
  hidden. And Eminem exposes that.
• 33:56
  And then he just destroys him, you know, and puts on like, a
• 33:59
  bit of a clinic. But also to make a point about,
• 34:01
  hey, you guys calling me fake, you saying I'm full of shit.
• 34:03
  Well, look at this guy. Like, you know, you put this guy
• 34:05
  in front of me and I absolutely destroy him and show him you
• 34:07
  know what he is. At least I'm real.
• 34:09
  This is who I am. And then your mic drop walks
• 34:12
  away. So that's the nature of of diss
• 34:16
  tracks in a, in a very, you know, abridged like basic way.
• 34:22
  I'm intrigued to know, since you've probably been in quite a
• 34:25
  few over the years, what's what's like the most brutal one
• 34:30
  you've been a part of and also that you've witnessed?
• 34:33
  Right, so Oh my days, right. So the most the most brutal one
• 34:40
  probably was when this right. So I used to be in a thing
• 34:44
  called like SW Collective while I still am, I work with them,
• 34:48
  but I'm like my own independent brand and you know they but
• 34:51
  there's fusion there. Basically they used to be a
• 34:54
  member of that group called Ginge, right?
• 34:57
  You've probably seen this on my Insta.
• 35:00
  I've not seen this. I've got something else.
• 35:01
  I'll ask you about something else, but yeah.
• 35:03
  There was a guy called Ginge and he he was messaging me basically
• 35:07
  being like, let's start some fake beef and whatnot.
• 35:09
  And I don't really do that. You know what I mean?
• 35:12
  I was hesitant and I knew that there was some sort of catch
• 35:16
  where it's like, well, why would you put that on the line if like
• 35:19
  if you're not prepared to be one step ahead, because this is like
• 35:23
  when you offer me out in that kind of way, I see I'll start
• 35:27
  playing chess then. You know what I mean?
• 35:28
  It's not I'm just this is just a dis war.
• 35:31
  There's something else going on always in the background when
• 35:34
  someone wants to put their career on the line like this.
• 35:37
  100%. And I knew later on that he had
• 35:39
  information on me that I didn't. I didn't know he had.
• 35:41
  And that was obviously his, that was his porn that he had in his
• 35:45
  back pocket ready to sort of let loose.
• 35:47
  But. Oh, so he wanted to kind of.
• 35:49
  I'm like, Oh yeah, let's set up this fake thing but then
• 35:52
  absolutely fucking wreck you with something you weren't
• 35:54
  expecting. Yeah, yeah, but he wasn't.
• 35:58
  Snake behaviour. What he wasn't expecting like
• 36:01
  yes he had that information but he was too tame, right?
• 36:06
  So, for example, he sent the first this at me and to be
• 36:10
  honest, mate, it sounds like a lullaby.
• 36:11
  You know what I mean? Like you couldn't really tell he
• 36:13
  was talking directly about me other than one time when he says
• 36:17
  my name, right. But I still see it.
• 36:20
  I still see it as this, this Jesus sent to me.
• 36:22
  So I'm not now going to be like, oh, he's gone a bit tame.
• 36:25
  So I'm going to go a little bit tame and it's going to be some
• 36:27
  little jabbing matches. It's it's not happening, right.
• 36:30
  So if I'm, if I'm going at you, I have a genuine problem with
• 36:34
  you on the mic. It may not be the same in
• 36:36
  personal life, but when I when I hop on that mic and I same for
• 36:39
  you, I hate you both. You know what I mean?
• 36:41
  So what I did, I found out a week before this whole thing
• 36:47
  popped off that he had to put his dog down.
• 36:50
  Oh no. So.
• 36:52
  Sally, how could you? I found a photo of the dog, I
• 36:58
  found the name of the dog and I went what the bar is, I'll put
• 37:03
  you down like Kobe because the dog's name was Kobe.
• 37:06
  And I show the dog on my phone to the screen mate.
• 37:11
  Absolutely savage, Rob, honestly.
• 37:14
  And like, he messaged me after that and he was like, my missus
• 37:17
  is crying now. This is way more than rap.
• 37:20
  Like, it's on basically. And he's after me now apparently
• 37:24
  just because he's bitten off more than he can chew in the rap
• 37:27
  department. But yeah, that was a pretty
• 37:29
  savage one. But off the back of that I had.
• 37:33
  Do you know about pen game rap battles?
• 37:35
  I don't, but I know my friends are going to crucify me for not
• 37:38
  knowing that. No, no.
• 37:39
  So basically they're like the biggest rap battle company in
• 37:43
  the country. They've got like 300,000
• 37:45
  followers on Instagram, their most viewed videos got something
• 37:48
  like 60 million something stupid like that.
• 37:50
  And they messaged me and they were like do do you want to do a
• 37:54
  battle? So I was like, yeah, obviously.
• 37:56
  So I've turned up and like this, this battle wasn't out yet, but
• 38:02
  it was scary. I was in Lewisham shopping
• 38:04
  Centre. Now I've bad enough I'm a
• 38:07
  Plymouth boy. Yeah, I I only hear things about
• 38:11
  these kind of places, breth, But from what I from what I saw, I
• 38:16
  would not say that all of it was false, to be honest with you.
• 38:19
  Like I was scared, bro, walking down the street.
• 38:22
  It's just. Me.
• 38:23
  So what you're saying is right, It's not a great holiday
• 38:26
  destination for summer, no. No, no, no.
• 38:31
  Especially not if you've got jewellery or anything of value.
• 38:33
  Don't take your kids there, no. Don't, don't get me wrong,
• 38:37
  there's some lovely people with Lewisham.
• 38:39
  Like they're absolutely like some of my best friends are from
• 38:42
  those sort of areas. Depravity, you know what I mean?
• 38:44
  Yeah. It's, it's difficult.
• 38:46
  Like, yeah, I, I saw poverty in London.
• 38:48
  I, I grew up pretty poor myself. It's, it's hard.
• 38:51
  And The funny thing is when I was at school, it was like, I
• 38:54
  was poor kid. But then I met people that were
• 38:57
  like super poor and I was like, wow, I guess.
• 38:59
  I guess like, we're not so bad off really.
• 39:02
  I mean, fucking hell, like, I was.
• 39:04
  I started curing my blessings. I was like, Jesus, like, it can
• 39:06
  really be so much worse. And then I started hanging out
• 39:09
  in London and I saw even worse. I was like, wow, yeah, I'm just
• 39:12
  never going to complain, ever. No, that's it.
• 39:16
  You know, there's, there's the private depravity everywhere,
• 39:18
  even in, you know, rural locations, perhaps even more so.
• 39:21
  Like if you look at the, there's some sort of like depravity
• 39:25
  index for the country that like look at the most deprived areas
• 39:29
  in the UK and the top one percentile in the country is, is
• 39:34
  literally my post code, like where I live, Plymouth.
• 39:38
  So yeah, no, there's listen, there's depravity all over the
• 39:41
  country no matter where you go. But yeah, no, Anyway, so I'm in
• 39:44
  Lewisham. Yeah, I'm in Lewisham Shopping
• 39:46
  Centre and I've had to absolutely like destroy some guy
• 39:50
  because bro, I take it too far anyway, right.
• 39:54
  We, we talk. We're if we were to talk in
• 39:56
  person, like just on a humorous one, I would say some shit that
• 40:00
  you would have to warn me about. Do you know what I mean?
• 40:02
  So like, it's perfect for me. It's perfect for me because it
• 40:06
  gives me the chance to just go, oh, I can't say that.
• 40:09
  Oh yeah, I can, I literally can. So it, it's great to have that
• 40:12
  as an outlet. But it, you know, it does make
• 40:16
  me a bit of a weapon when it comes to these avenues.
• 40:22
  Oh my God, OK, so I wasn't going to ask this before, but I think
• 40:29
  this is fun because you spoke about like things being tame and
• 40:34
  and that things with when you go for people, right.
• 40:36
  So it's very well known that the whole like YouTube rap thing,
• 40:41
  like the the diss track season from years ago was was fake.
• 40:47
  There were elements of reality in it, but it was all
• 40:51
  orchestrated and stuff, right? And people made a lot of money.
• 40:53
  They did their bits. It was fun, right?
• 40:56
  As a rapper though, you're you're professional.
• 40:58
  These are just Youtubers trying it.
• 40:59
  What did you make of all that? Obviously you were growing up at
• 41:02
  the times you would have been a teen, you would have seen that
• 41:03
  and been like. What do you think?
• 41:05
  I thought I thought it was so cool, but then I was, you know,
• 41:09
  I was like 15. I've I've heard I've heard all
• 41:12
  of them back since and I'm like bloody hell.
• 41:15
  Like how did how was I bopping to this?
• 41:17
  The only one I did like was. Roshaus one.
• 41:22
  Oh yeah. That was that was that was the
• 41:25
  one, yeah. That was the one for me.
• 41:28
  I listened to that. I was like, yeah, because he he
• 41:31
  just, he was happy to offend people.
• 41:34
  And I like that. I like that when it when it's
• 41:37
  when it's down to a diss track, to be fair, right.
• 41:40
  So. I thought this was pretty
• 41:44
  interesting to talk about. So it's, it's not related to
• 41:46
  you, but like, I want to get your opinion on it.
• 41:48
  So Drake has taken UMG, Universal Music Group to court
• 41:57
  in regards to Kendrick Lamar's lyrics, his distract.
• 42:00
  So he's not, I don't think he's taken Kendrick Lamar, but he's
• 42:04
  taken the label. They share the same label, I
• 42:06
  believe. And so he's, he's taken UMG to
• 42:12
  court for defamation over what Kendrick Lamar said in his
• 42:16
  distracts. Now, as I understand it,
• 42:20
  typically with with diss tracks, you know, it kind of normally
• 42:25
  happens naturally. Like the whole MMMGK thing kind
• 42:29
  of naturally materialized. They'll go back and forth and
• 42:32
  then there's a clear cut winner, right?
• 42:34
  I think most people agree at this point that Kendrick Lamar
• 42:37
  won that. Yeah, it's pretty.
• 42:40
  It's pretty like, you know, Rookie gets destroyed by the
• 42:44
  world champion kind of vibes. And every time Drake has tried
• 42:49
  to go off on people, he's always lost.
• 42:53
  Every single time. It's just fact that I'm not even
• 42:57
  trying to be a dickhead here. Like I like some of Drake's
• 42:59
  music. It's just he he does that.
• 43:01
  He goes for people, he loses, he disappears for a while, then he
• 43:05
  comes back and and does look at this or something and it's like
• 43:09
  nothing ever happened. I guess I won that.
• 43:12
  And it's like, alright, if you want to believe that, fine, but
• 43:15
  it's not the case. But this I, I personally think
• 43:19
  this is lunacy, right? Because if somehow the courts
• 43:25
  agree because they, they've never really made a judgement
• 43:29
  from a defamation perspective on rap lyrics and whether or not
• 43:34
  they could be defamatory. I believe if you're rapping
• 43:37
  about anyone else, naturally it's going to be defamatory.
• 43:39
  But it's it's a song and it's someone's opinion.
• 43:47
  You know, to me, it's like the equivalent of like, if I write
• 43:50
  something on Twitter about someone, like it's like, who
• 43:53
  cares? You know, like, I can see how
• 43:56
  it'd be annoying. And like, OK, if it's, if the
• 43:59
  track does really well and it's commercially successful, yeah,
• 44:02
  that's going to be a thorn in your side.
• 44:05
  But you know, it, it's opinion. Like people don't have to agree
• 44:09
  with it. People won't even hate that
• 44:10
  song. Where do you stand on this?
• 44:13
  I mean, I think there's a difference between in terms of
• 44:17
  like defamatory lyrics, there's a difference between Drake your
• 44:21
  hair shit and you're a paedophile.
• 44:24
  Do you know what I mean? Right.
• 44:25
  So this is the big one, yeah. Different gravity to say the
• 44:29
  least. Now, I don't personally.
• 44:33
  I think in the eyes of everyone, it makes Straight a sore loser.
• 44:37
  I agree and. Putting myself in his shoes, if
• 44:43
  I was under the same label as the person who's dissing me,
• 44:46
  let's say the label I'm in now. Yeah.
• 44:48
  If if someone who was dissing me was in the same label, I would
• 44:52
  question why this label of allowed that to happen.
• 44:55
  Do you know what I mean? Because surely there's got to be
• 44:59
  some. But then again, we get proven
• 45:01
  wrong in this way. But surely there's got to be
• 45:03
  some form of duty of care to both parties.
• 45:06
  So if the if the label know that Kendrick's just about to drop a
• 45:11
  track, calling Drake and Nonce like he should at least know
• 45:14
  about it before did he did. He actually say it in so many
• 45:20
  words. Or was it implied?
• 45:21
  Because I think that's really important.
• 45:23
  I mean. Semantics man.
• 45:24
  Everything. Like if he literally just said
• 45:26
  you're a paedophile, like, all right, that's, that's clear cut.
• 45:30
  Everyone in the court can agree he'd he said that.
• 45:33
  Whereas if it's like you're like, I'm young, huh?
• 45:35
  Like that, That's, you know, because he, he has famously been
• 45:46
  texting younger people like he was had this weird friendship
• 45:50
  with Millie Bobby Brown. Everyone remembers it.
• 45:52
  Everyone was like, that's a bit weird because he's like what,
• 45:56
  mid 30s at the time and she was, I believe, like a young
• 46:01
  teenager. Dude, that's weird.
• 46:05
  Why? You know, you're not family.
• 46:08
  It's not like a family friend. You know, you're not her
• 46:10
  godfather or something. Why are you talking to this
• 46:13
  person? Like what's, you know, they
• 46:15
  won't. I don't believe they're even
• 46:16
  working on any projects together either.
• 46:19
  It's weird. I'm not saying that you can't be
• 46:21
  friends with someone younger, but it's not, it's not great.
• 46:25
  It's, you know, I think there's, you spoke about duty of care.
• 46:27
  I think there's duty of care there to, to not engage in that
• 46:31
  because of how kids are impressionable, you know, they,
• 46:39
  they will look at an adult and there will be a level of trust
• 46:42
  there. And look, I'm not accusing here
• 46:45
  to be clear, I'm not saying he did or didn't do anything.
• 46:48
  So I'm legally covered. There.
• 46:56
  Well, you said it, not me. OK, All right, all right.
• 46:58
  I'll take that one. To be clear, for the record,
• 47:01
  Sally the rapper does not, does not, I'm going to speak for him,
• 47:05
  does not think that Drake is a is a paedophile.
• 47:09
  All right, that's there we go. You're not going to.
• 47:14
  You're just. I mean, right, let's go.
• 47:18
  Let's go back to a point before I Yeah.
• 47:19
  All right, let's talk about what?
• 47:22
  No, the reason I bring this up, OK, what I really care about is
• 47:26
  the implications for for rappers, right?
• 47:29
  Because if this goes through and Drake successfully sues UMG for
• 47:33
  defamation, that opens up a whole can of worms, not just for
• 47:37
  current diss tracks, but the diss tracks in the past.
• 47:41
  What if MGGK looks at that and goes, well?
• 47:44
  I really suffered as a result of that rat beef with Eminem.
• 47:47
  I'm going to sue him. What does he do?
• 47:50
  I think it could have like free speech issues breath to be.
• 47:53
  I agree. Yeah, I think this is very
• 47:55
  dangerous waters. I hope the I hope the the court
• 47:58
  just throws this out. That can be difficult,
• 48:00
  especially considering that like RAT is built on political change
• 48:05
  and people reflect like basically people given their
• 48:09
  views, like so many like, you know, yeah, no, like people just
• 48:13
  speaking out on injustice and things that have things that are
• 48:16
  going wrong in the world. That's that's literally how rap
• 48:19
  started. So it it could start off with
• 48:23
  you can't diss each other and then end up you can't diss the
• 48:26
  government. Do you know what I mean?
• 48:27
  So it it could be the start of a snowball effect for free speech
• 48:32
  within music. However, you're all there's
• 48:35
  always going to be someone who who defies those rules mate.
• 48:39
  I hope so because I've always seen rappers is very
• 48:41
  counterculture, sort of a bastion of truth and hope.
• 48:44
  And like, I know there's a lot of bullshit and in the charts,
• 48:48
  like people just rapping about just just pointless shit, money,
• 48:53
  guns, this that it's like it's very best to show off.
• 48:56
  And I was never interested in that.
• 48:58
  I was always interested in the people that were rapping about
• 49:01
  their upbringing or what society is like, or, you know, the
• 49:04
  hypocrisy of society or whatever's going on.
• 49:06
  Like I found that interesting because to me, rappers, much
• 49:10
  like comedians, that the my favorite style of ones are
• 49:14
  storytellers and the best can can weave a story and tell you
• 49:20
  about what it's like growing up in Detroit, Plymouth, anywhere
• 49:25
  in the world and give you an idea of what that's like, you
• 49:28
  know, kind of take you on a journey for a little while.
• 49:32
  That's I think where the money really is when it comes to rap
• 49:35
  because it's it's another medium.
• 49:37
  You know, I don't have to sing. I can rap.
• 49:39
  I can tell you a story and I can do it in an entertaining way.
• 49:43
  I can do it in a way that, you know, like I like the way when
• 49:46
  rappers really care about their flow and delivery and they kind
• 49:50
  of ride the wave of the beat it it kind of sends that it hits
• 49:54
  that message just that little bit better, you know, often
• 49:57
  drives me more crazy than when someone's not paying attention
• 50:00
  to their own beats. Like use it, use it.
• 50:03
  It's going to it's going to send that message across so much
• 50:05
  better, you know, because because if music and nothing
• 50:09
  else is about the beats, it's about the rhythm.
• 50:12
  Like people. That's why like my music is
• 50:15
  really simple, right? The song that most people seem
• 50:19
  to like from my album has two chords.
• 50:23
  It's just too, and I'm worried sometimes is this boring?
• 50:25
  Apparently not. So I don't know.
• 50:28
  I think a lot can be said for just paying more attention to
• 50:31
  the rhythm of something then you know, it being really intricate
• 50:35
  or or having like 1000 different lyrics and it's like if the
• 50:39
  points made and it's powerful and there's a story there,
• 50:42
  people will engage with. It don't agree more.
• 50:46
  Nothing to add. You've hit the nail on the head.
• 50:54
  This OK, so when I was writing about Drake, I kind of thought
• 50:57
  about this. I thought this was interesting.
• 50:59
  Do you think it's necessary for rappers to have to sing in order
• 51:02
  to be successful in today's charts?
• 51:04
  Because we're seeing this more and more.
• 51:07
  I know with with Eminem, he started introducing it more and
• 51:09
  more. Well, no, yeah.
• 51:13
  He, he made his transition into sort of mainstream rap hip hop
• 51:17
  and he, you know, he started singing a bit.
• 51:21
  Drake started singing more and more and more, even even some of
• 51:26
  the up and coming artists people when KSI was getting into like
• 51:31
  his rap stuff. And I was so excited initially
• 51:36
  and now I'm just so disappointed.
• 51:37
  That is what it is. He started doing it and, and
• 51:41
  what I realized is that there's almost like an expectation now
• 51:44
  for rappers to have to sing. Like where do you just kind of
• 51:46
  stand on that? Well, do you need it to make it?
• 51:52
  No. Do you need versatility to make
• 51:56
  it? Yes.
• 51:57
  And I think that's, that's the main thing where it lies is if,
• 52:02
  if you Can't Sing, OK, that's fine, but you shouldn't just
• 52:06
  don't allow people to pigeonhole you into what like the genre you
• 52:10
  should be or what particular style of rap you should be.
• 52:14
  And I think that's the main thing in, in, in rappers on a
• 52:16
  personal level, adopting singing is, I would say #1 is to just
• 52:22
  get themselves out of that pigeonhole.
• 52:24
  Obviously you're bringing in a whole new demographic when you
• 52:26
  do sing as well. And #2 is so it's about the
• 52:29
  tombra of the song as well. You know, some people I know
• 52:32
  rappers that Can't Sing, but can they can hold a tune, you know,
• 52:36
  to the, to the, to the point where they can, they can make
• 52:40
  melody out of that, you know, like, and, and that helps them
• 52:43
  to say, for example, I've used it when I want to convey a
• 52:46
  little bit more vulnerability with, with, you know, with, with
• 52:50
  the track. So you know, it's, you don't
• 52:54
  need it, However, you don't need trainers to run.
• 52:57
  But if I can help. Well, eloquent way to put it,
• 53:01
  man, Love that. No, I'm not taking the piss.
• 53:03
  I mean it. That's perfect.
• 53:06
  OK, so in a video on TikTok, you discuss some people that you
• 53:12
  might be exposing in the future. Now, in the video you
• 53:16
  deliberately say like, I'm not going to name any names right
• 53:18
  now, but you kind of say like you're planning to do that in
• 53:22
  the future. So is this something you plan to
• 53:26
  do soon and will those exposes be included in your songs?
• 53:31
  Is it going to be a lyrical expose situation?
• 53:34
  I've not quite worked out how I want to do it.
• 53:39
  Are there major people like big big people or is it like
• 53:45
  undergrounds? For example, right, I can tell
• 53:48
  you a producer with combined over like a billion streams who
• 53:53
  who like I can quite be. Catching the fire.
• 53:57
  Quite easily leave them without a career.
• 53:59
  But I'm a nice person so I've given it.
• 54:02
  I'm giving him this time to sort of come to me and and reconcile.
• 54:06
  But if he doesn't do that, then he doesn't really leave me with
• 54:10
  a choice, you know? So to be clear, was this a
• 54:14
  situation where you got some offers and stuff and you were
• 54:18
  you were going to work with this person and then something went
• 54:21
  South and and that's where we're at now.
• 54:23
  Would that be fair to say? Oh Oh no, this one mate.
• 54:27
  There's so many people watching this, knowing exactly who it is,
• 54:30
  but no. I to be clear, I I don't want
• 54:32
  you to name names. Let's keep it.
• 54:34
  It's fine I I won't. Yeah.
• 54:37
  No, not, not because I'm worried about anything.
• 54:38
  It's just that I think that it's good to kind of leave it there
• 54:42
  at that point and you do it the way in which you plan to do it.
• 54:48
  But what I, what I, I think with these, obviously these people
• 54:52
  have wronged you in some way. That's why you're like, I'm
• 54:55
  going to do this, but I'm going to do it on my terms.
• 54:57
  And I think that's very sensible.
• 54:59
  It's not good. I'll tell you what I can.
• 55:01
  I'll tell you what I can. OK, Sure.
• 55:02
  So on on the larger level, you've got this one producer,
• 55:06
  he's got over a billion streams combined, worked with some very,
• 55:10
  very popular artists and he he was down here, he was in
• 55:14
  Plymouth. I I think he lives reasonably
• 55:17
  locally anyway. And no, so we met up and I can
• 55:24
  always tell sort of within within a night how this person's
• 55:30
  if this person's going to benefit me having them around.
• 55:32
  Not necessarily how can I use this person, but how will I be
• 55:36
  after interacting with this person?
• 55:39
  You know, So my main my main point of this is going South is
• 55:44
  drug use like cocaine, right? If you like, if I find someone,
• 55:48
  even though it's so prominent in the music scene, if I find you
• 55:50
  and you're doing cocaine, especially on a weekday, we're
• 55:54
  never work like we're never going to be friends.
• 55:56
  We may be able to work together, but we're never going to be
• 55:58
  friends whatsoever, right. So this was the first time we've
• 56:01
  been meeting. He's sold me a load of dreams.
• 56:04
  I can get you on this day to get you this amount of streams and
• 56:08
  basically giving me this lovely package of, Oh yeah,
• 56:12
  everything's going to be great if you just stick with me.
• 56:14
  The thing is I was growing from the age of 13.
• 56:17
  I know that's bollocks, mate. You can't, you know what I mean?
• 56:19
  You can't blow smoke up my ass and expect me.
• 56:20
  So just just go along with it without question.
• 56:23
  Now, a lot of people would because younger, inexperienced
• 56:26
  want the opportunities ultimately.
• 56:28
  I don't blame them for that, but you've got to be very wary.
• 56:31
  A lot of people in music will sell you a dream and I have.
• 56:34
  I don't have any respect for the people that do, to be honest
• 56:36
  with you. So no, like this bloke, we got
• 56:40
  got a little bit closer and he just fucked me around, you know,
• 56:43
  like there was it, it became so apparent that he was just
• 56:49
  looking for someone to while while he was around, he was
• 56:54
  looking for someone to validate his addiction, right?
• 57:00
  Yeah, he was just looking for a drug buddy.
• 57:03
  But The thing is, he was taking me round to these exclusive
• 57:06
  places, green rooms with like international artists.
• 57:10
  And he was just, you know, he was, he was trying to give it
• 57:13
  the whole, I'm the biggest in this room.
• 57:15
  You know, all, all of you like should bow down to me because
• 57:18
  I've got all these streams and shit like that.
• 57:19
  And it's like, there's no wonder he didn't get anyone's number.
• 57:22
  Do you know what I mean? Like he hasn't spoken to anyone
• 57:25
  else off the back of this because this, it's, it's
• 57:27
  arrogance, you know, and I, I really don't like that, that
• 57:30
  alongside with how he's treated some of the people that I also
• 57:34
  work with throughout the scene, It's not just my complaints.
• 57:39
  There's also certain videographers that I've worked
• 57:42
  with. The basically he's come into
• 57:45
  their life. He's found out what connects
• 57:48
  and, and links that he's had. He's used, used this person to
• 57:52
  get to those connects. And once he's got them, he's
• 57:54
  gone. Right now, some people would
• 57:56
  just say that's business, right? But when you're posing yourself
• 57:59
  as a friend, yeah, but in reality you're just using them
• 58:02
  for their opportunity and their connections.
• 58:04
  You're an arsehole. You are an arsehole.
• 58:07
  But yeah, on the smaller local level, there's down here in
• 58:11
  Plymouth, there's some promoters who, they're not legit.
• 58:15
  They make about 6 grand profit a show.
• 58:18
  But yeah, they're not like a limited company or anything like
• 58:22
  that. They ain't paying taxes and it's
• 58:24
  it's not legit, but yet, but yet they're offering opportunities
• 58:28
  to local artists, not realising that it's illegal.
• 58:31
  Do you know what I mean? What they're doing is illegal.
• 58:33
  And at some point, it's all going to, it's all going to come
• 58:36
  crashing down, especially when it's like, so how have these
• 58:39
  people got funded in the first place?
• 58:41
  They can't get grants. They're not, they're not a
• 58:43
  limited company. How have they got, how have they
• 58:46
  got that funding in the 1st place?
• 58:47
  And all you got to do is look at the people around them and what
• 58:50
  they're doing with their day-to-day, right?
• 58:53
  I'm hoping you're understanding what I'm saying.
• 58:55
  And then you see where the funding is coming from.
• 58:57
  You catch madrift. Oh, I do, yeah.
• 59:02
  It's, it's I, I mean, you know, we were talking about psychology
• 59:08
  earlier. Like I, I really don't
• 59:12
  understand why people don't just think before they do, you know,
• 59:18
  I mean, you said arrogance there.
• 59:20
  I think that's a huge part of it.
• 59:21
  Ego. Like I've had people do the same
• 59:25
  blow smoke up my arse and I'm like, we'll put your money where
• 59:27
  your mouth is then, you know, like, like I'm ready.
• 59:31
  I work very hard. I'm going to do XYZ, but if
• 59:36
  you're if you expect me to run after you beg you, it's not
• 59:38
  going to happen. If you expect me to change what
• 59:40
  I do not going to happen. If you expect me to fuck people
• 59:43
  over who've given me opportunities, not going to do
• 59:46
  it. You know, I, I and I know that
• 59:48
  people will say, you know what you said like it's just
• 59:52
  business, Christian. You know, you got to fake it
• 59:54
  till you make it. You got to, you know, you got to
• 59:56
  make these moves. And I'm like, no, not at the
• 59:57
  expense of other people. Other people might do that, but
• 1:00:00
  I value my morals. I value doing things the right
• 1:00:04
  way and building connections the right way.
• 1:00:06
  And like you said about vibes, like I had the same thing.
• 1:00:09
  I can tell fairly quickly where someone's intentions lie at.
• 1:00:13
  Sometimes people expose themselves a bit later, but a
• 1:00:16
  lot of the time. It's blaringly obvious that
• 1:00:19
  they're trying to get something from you and you're like, you
• 1:00:21
  just put arms distance like no you're not, you're not getting
• 1:00:25
  what you want, but go find some other mug.
• 1:00:28
  Want to acknowledge, especially when you're in a reasonably
• 1:00:33
  rural area and you're trying to make it everyone knows each
• 1:00:36
  other, bruv, you know what I mean?
• 1:00:38
  And like, listen, I've, I've, I've done shit wrong people,
• 1:00:41
  everyone knows this. You know what I mean?
• 1:00:43
  Like I, I won't I won't deny it. I'm not hiding anything.
• 1:00:46
  I'm not a nice person sometimes, you know what I mean, But one
• 1:00:49
  thing to acknowledge is if you, if you step on someone on the
• 1:00:53
  way up, they will piss on you on the way down.
• 1:00:56
  Do you know what I mean? So you, you need, you need to be
• 1:00:58
  very, very mindful of who who you fuck over essentially,
• 1:01:05
  because you never know when your next L is going to come.
• 1:01:08
  You never know when you're going to take a tumble and you're like
• 1:01:11
  and no one's there to back you up because you've been nothing
• 1:01:13
  but a prick to everyone. I I also think as well, like if
• 1:01:17
  you like, I don't lie. I told the truth, right?
• 1:01:21
  Sometimes to a fault. Can you?
• 1:01:23
  Can you say 100% you never lie? Have I?
• 1:01:29
  Have I told white lies? Yes.
• 1:01:31
  OK, I deliberately skirt around issues when I don't want to give
• 1:01:36
  like 100%. That's all.
• 1:01:38
  I won't lie, I'll just avoid it. But if you if you ask me point
• 1:01:43
  blank, I will tell you the truth.
• 1:01:45
  OK. Like it's an even if it makes me
• 1:01:48
  look bad, I would rather look bad but be honest.
• 1:01:51
  And no, I don't have to look over my shoulder then lie to
• 1:01:55
  your face and disrespect you because I find that insulting,
• 1:01:58
  disrespectful. And I think that's the worst
• 1:02:00
  thing you can do. You know, so they say it's a
• 1:02:03
  lifetime to build up trust and the matter of seconds to break
• 1:02:06
  it. And I think it you afford
• 1:02:10
  yourself a lot when you do that. And I equate that with with like
• 1:02:15
  fucking people over like it's, it's going to come back to haunt
• 1:02:18
  you. You know, it might not happen
• 1:02:19
  today, tomorrow, a year from now, but it will happen and it
• 1:02:22
  will happen in spectacular fashion.
• 1:02:25
  And like you said, you, you, no one can ever prepare themselves
• 1:02:29
  for the elves. The only thing they can do is
• 1:02:31
  work on how they take things in life.
• 1:02:34
  And also just make a point of this is who I am, this is what I
• 1:02:38
  do. So if you deliberately conduct
• 1:02:40
  yourself in a professional way, you don't mess people about,
• 1:02:43
  that's what people are going to say about you.
• 1:02:45
  You know, if you are someone who fucks people about, people
• 1:02:50
  rarely say stuff to people's faces.
• 1:02:52
  It's always whispers behind your back that that's how human
• 1:02:55
  beings work. Not everyone, but most people.
• 1:02:58
  And especially like in the music industry.
• 1:03:00
  Like I'm willing to bet at some point that producer you
• 1:03:04
  mentioned said something along the lines of if you do XYZ for
• 1:03:11
  me, I will give you XYZ. And then you went, well no,
• 1:03:17
  that's not how I work. And then he said, well, you're
• 1:03:22
  never going to make it with that.
• 1:03:24
  You're never going to make it, never going to make it in this
• 1:03:26
  industry. Like you need someone like me to
• 1:03:30
  help you make it. Would I be fair that?
• 1:03:32
  Bit, yeah, that bit yeah. That someone like me, it's
• 1:03:35
  almost like the the, the, the narcissistic abusive
• 1:03:40
  relationship without being in the confines of your own home.
• 1:03:43
  Do you know what I mean? It's it's like the getting rid
• 1:03:47
  of everyone around you, isolating you as a person so
• 1:03:50
  you'll only rely on that one person.
• 1:03:52
  Yeah, you did that 100%. Yeah, it's manipulation.
• 1:03:55
  It's it's like a wow, we could go this whole podcast on that.
• 1:04:01
  There was a singer I had on my show a few years ago and she's
• 1:04:04
  really talented. And she told me that earlier in
• 1:04:07
  her career, she was offered a record deal.
• 1:04:12
  And the stipulation was that they, she told him her story.
• 1:04:17
  And she's very proud woman, proud of her heritage.
• 1:04:19
  All this right? And they turn around, they're
• 1:04:21
  like, right, so here's your story, here's what we're going
• 1:04:24
  to do. So you need to say that you came
• 1:04:27
  from a broken home or whatever and that you're orphan.
• 1:04:31
  And then he's like created a fantasy story for her.
• 1:04:34
  Like it's fucking X Factor or something.
• 1:04:35
  Like a sob story. And it's well known that people
• 1:04:39
  lie in the industry. They get given fake sob stories
• 1:04:44
  and sometimes they're exposed, sometimes they're never exposed.
• 1:04:47
  But she she was like, she turned around and she was like, I'm not
• 1:04:51
  saying that. I'm not doing that.
• 1:04:52
  What do you mean? And they're like, oh, no, no,
• 1:04:54
  no, like you have to do this or you'll you'll never make it.
• 1:04:57
  And she's like, I'm not going to lie about MyHeritage and who I
• 1:05:02
  am for a fucking record deal. Like, you can do 1.
• 1:05:05
  And I always respected that because I'm like, yeah, you're
• 1:05:08
  just living a lie otherwise. And imagine how tiring that
• 1:05:11
  would get over time, constantly having to deny who you are,
• 1:05:15
  maybe even having to deny who you are when everyone knows,
• 1:05:19
  everyone is exposed that we live in the age of truth, the age of
• 1:05:22
  information. Everything can be searchable,
• 1:05:24
  trackable, you know, like, why lie like that?
• 1:05:28
  Why do that? But people do, and I can only
• 1:05:34
  think that it's because of these promises, these, well, we'll
• 1:05:36
  give you this money, just shut up.
• 1:05:38
  Just do what we tell you and you'll get this, you'll get
• 1:05:40
  this, you'll get. And I just think it's very
• 1:05:41
  fickle. You know, I would rather be able
• 1:05:43
  to look at myself in the mirror and go, I like who I am.
• 1:05:45
  I, you know, I respect who I am and I have the respect to my
• 1:05:48
  friends and family because I never did any of that.
• 1:05:52
  You know, I don't try to sell bullshit to people.
• 1:05:55
  I just give them what's real and they take it or leave it, you
• 1:05:58
  know? Yeah, No, I think, listen, I've
• 1:06:07
  been in similar positions, not necessarily been told to lie,
• 1:06:11
  but I think something to think about is that they have
• 1:06:16
  something to offer, right? And they they take that.
• 1:06:20
  I think especially for the less experienced artists.
• 1:06:26
  I'm not saying they're saying that you interviewed this seems
• 1:06:28
  like she's got a lot of experience under her belt, but
• 1:06:31
  especially for the less experienced artists, they want
• 1:06:34
  that, like they want that so bad that they're willing to do
• 1:06:37
  anything for it, you know, even if it means, you know, sacrifice
• 1:06:42
  their own integrity. I've been there, You know, I've,
• 1:06:45
  I've, I'll be honest, I've done some shit that I've been told
• 1:06:49
  I'm going to make it off the back of and that like, you know,
• 1:06:52
  not like Diddy level, but like I've done some, I've done, I've
• 1:06:55
  done some things that I look back on and I think why, why did
• 1:06:58
  I do that? What did it gain me?
• 1:07:01
  And yet actually, no, no, no, it gained me something, but I lost
• 1:07:05
  a lot more because that like inside on a personal level, the
• 1:07:10
  way I feel about myself and you know, and it's ultimately it's
• 1:07:15
  it's all it's all down to that person's individual position at
• 1:07:17
  the time. Like you, morality to me is
• 1:07:20
  like, I personally, I think it's relative.
• 1:07:24
  There are, there are moral absolutes.
• 1:07:25
  OK, Like even those moral absolutes, when you're in a
• 1:07:29
  position where you are desperate and you're poor and you've not
• 1:07:33
  eaten, things like stealing become something that is needed
• 1:07:38
  to be done. You're not worried about the
• 1:07:40
  morals of it. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:07:42
  This is why life's not black and white.
• 1:07:44
  It's Shades of Grey. Like there's contextual like
• 1:07:46
  exactly what you're saying. Like if you if you're starving,
• 1:07:49
  bro, like or we're going to lay here and die, like no, I'll
• 1:07:53
  probably will steal something and yes, it's wrong, but how am
• 1:07:57
  I going to survive? Exactly.
• 1:07:59
  Exactly. And it's exactly the same for
• 1:08:01
  for musicians. Like there are a lot of
• 1:08:03
  musicians that are in difficult positions financially.
• 1:08:07
  I think a lot. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:08:09
  Exactly. So me that that if someone comes
• 1:08:13
  to you and truly, truly can solve those problems, however,
• 1:08:18
  you have to sacrifice a small amount of integrity.
• 1:08:22
  The majority of people. I'm not saying you, my friend.
• 1:08:24
  No, no, no, you're you're spot on.
• 1:08:26
  Majority of people are going to go for that deal.
• 1:08:28
  And I just, I, I, let me put it this way, you base, I'm
• 1:08:33
  basically rephrasing what you said.
• 1:08:35
  Like he might not pay now, but my God, will you pay later and
• 1:08:41
  in more than you'll ever know. It won't be money either.
• 1:08:47
  It'll be worse than that. Videos are you getting bummed?
• 1:08:52
  Look. I mean, look, the whole the DD
• 1:08:54
  trial is on it's day one and it's already crazy.
• 1:08:57
  And I, I think some people are saying it and I agree, it's
• 1:09:02
  going to massively change the trajectory and the state of hip
• 1:09:07
  hop. You're going to see a lot of
• 1:09:08
  people get exposed if they haven't already.
• 1:09:13
  And I would hope if you take a lesson from this, it would be to
• 1:09:18
  really pay attention to who you put your stock in and who you
• 1:09:23
  believe in because chances are they probably were involved with
• 1:09:27
  the wrong people. I'm not saying that like
• 1:09:29
  everyone is a bad person. Everyone's, you know, been
• 1:09:32
  involved in nefarious stuff. But if you look at people like
• 1:09:35
  say $0.50, who's been calling out people for years and years
• 1:09:39
  and years and years and like he's never heard on it, he's
• 1:09:42
  always been consistent with it. And then you look at people like
• 1:09:46
  Diddy and just like the endless clips, like the, the one that
• 1:09:49
  comes to mind for me is the the Mike Tyson clip.
• 1:09:55
  I find it fascinating. Have you ever seen it?
• 1:09:58
  No, I haven't. Go check it out afterwards.
• 1:10:01
  For those who have not seen it, I'll explain it real quick.
• 1:10:03
  It's a chat show at our it's what's that guy Ted?
• 1:10:09
  Arsenio Hall, I think so comedian, I think he's like the
• 1:10:14
  mid 90s and Arsenio Hall's interviewing them.
• 1:10:18
  You've got Diddy on the right or left, sorry, and Mike Tyson on
• 1:10:22
  the right. And this is at the height of
• 1:10:25
  Mike Tyson. So Diddy is like trying to touch
• 1:10:34
  Mike Tyson's leg or something, like he's trying to feed him up.
• 1:10:38
  And Mike Tyson, like, I'm surprised he didn't just get up
• 1:10:41
  and snuck him out then, to be honest.
• 1:10:43
  He showed a lot of restraint, but he made a point of
• 1:10:47
  physically adjusting himself, like moving himself away, right?
• 1:10:51
  He sort of flaps his coat and then he kind of like rubs his
• 1:10:56
  leg and I think he kind. And then he turns like his body
• 1:10:59
  language towards Diddy as if to say, like, I'm watching you now,
• 1:11:02
  you what what you doing? Like you don't do that to me.
• 1:11:06
  And the rest of the time Diddy is like stuttering doesn't know
• 1:11:08
  what to do. He's just and it's like he's
• 1:11:11
  trying that with with Mike and Mike's like, ah, ain't
• 1:11:15
  happening. But a lot of people
• 1:11:20
  unfortunately probably did give in And, and I don't know, it's
• 1:11:26
  all just whispers at this point. But I, it all starts with that
• 1:11:29
  that Katt Williams podcast on Shannon Sharpe.
• 1:11:32
  I feel like there's a lot of truth in in his words.
• 1:11:35
  I. Mean bruv, like you know, it's
• 1:11:37
  like an an age-old joke where your mates will go.
• 1:11:40
  I'm not gay, but 20 quids £20. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:11:43
  Like where this ain't £20 mate, This is like, I don't know, you
• 1:11:47
  don't know what these people are being offered bruv and this like
• 1:11:50
  it's it's the actual situation of like, would you take it mate?
• 1:11:54
  Like would would you take it in the ass for £1,000,000?
• 1:11:58
  No. See certain people would and
• 1:12:02
  this. No, I know, I know.
• 1:12:03
  But I don't understand why I'm blown away.
• 1:12:06
  But I don't get it. Like they're like, oh come on,
• 1:12:09
  you're like, it's, it's £1,000,000 Christian, don't be
• 1:12:12
  ridiculous. And I'm like, look, I value my
• 1:12:16
  integrity. I value that.
• 1:12:18
  I think it's worth so much more. Like when you die, when you're
• 1:12:21
  on your deathbed, right? Is that 1,000,000 lbs going to
• 1:12:25
  be comforting you and be like, you're, you're saving grace and
• 1:12:29
  like, oh, you know, I'm so glad that that that happened.
• 1:12:33
  You know, like no. Record.
• 1:12:36
  Now that we're recording, I wouldn't.
• 1:12:37
  I certainly the rapper would not take it in the arts for the
• 1:12:41
  legal. Records fuck's sake all right,
• 1:12:48
  let's let's move on all right yes I just like OK, what's
• 1:12:57
  what's the what's the Plymouth rap scene like because I've got
• 1:13:01
  a friend who lives in Plymouth and let's just say he's not
• 1:13:05
  singing the praises of Plymouth he's.
• 1:13:07
  Not. Busy let it go.
• 1:13:10
  Missing out Shay. Go on, it's all right.
• 1:13:14
  It's a, it's a lot better now, even though it's not much now.
• 1:13:17
  Like when I first got here there was nothing.
• 1:13:20
  But it's mainly like drum and bass, you know what I mean?
• 1:13:23
  Everything sort of stays somewhat around its origin
• 1:13:27
  point. So drum and bass started in
• 1:13:29
  Bristol. So like the whole of the
• 1:13:30
  Southwest are all skank into drum and bass.
• 1:13:33
  It's only been promoters and club owners didn't really
• 1:13:38
  believe in what we were trying to do like this sort of.
• 1:13:42
  I, I would say personally there's 10 artists here in
• 1:13:44
  Plymouth I can vouch for and I'd say four of them are still shit,
• 1:13:47
  but they're nice people. So promoters, they weren't
• 1:13:52
  believing in what we were doing until a set group of people
• 1:13:58
  brought like a larger drill wrapper down from London like
• 1:14:02
  M24 or like Dino Sit. Once those people started coming
• 1:14:07
  down, it showed to the clubs elsewhere that people want to
• 1:14:12
  see that, you know. So people have been quite a lot
• 1:14:15
  more receptive now than what they were.
• 1:14:18
  But Philip, to be honest with you, for the past, like for the,
• 1:14:22
  for the past two years, I've been actively searching for
• 1:14:24
  gigs, It's been, it's been tough like it's been very tough.
• 1:14:28
  Like this is the reason why I've got such a good network in
• 1:14:31
  London, Southampton, Manchester is because like, I'd rather
• 1:14:37
  travel like 200 miles to go to a gig full of people where they're
• 1:14:42
  receptive to what I'm across, then walk down the road and
• 1:14:47
  stand in front of, I don't know, 100 people that can't really
• 1:14:50
  give a fuck. You know what I mean?
• 1:14:52
  There's there's people who actually, I mean, anywhere,
• 1:14:55
  there's people who actually want to listen and like really taking
• 1:14:58
  what you're saying and there's people who don't, But it's, it's
• 1:15:02
  finding and locating that demographic that do want to
• 1:15:05
  listen to it down here. And we're, we're only just doing
• 1:15:07
  that now. But, you know, it's not to say
• 1:15:10
  that like, because I used to think that it was, I don't know,
• 1:15:13
  18 to 30. But since I've just started
• 1:15:17
  doing St. performances and started setting up PA systems in
• 1:15:20
  the middle of town, like you'd be surprised who's actually up
• 1:15:25
  for listening to to this kind of music.
• 1:15:28
  So I think a lot of it is, you know, I want to put myself in
• 1:15:31
  like sort of like places like cabarets and shit like that and,
• 1:15:35
  you know, start using like the the older 80s nineties beats to
• 1:15:39
  get to get that demographic going because you know, it's,
• 1:15:42
  it's music at the end of the day.
• 1:15:44
  What they don't like is drill, particularly because it incites
• 1:15:48
  violence and, and drug use and all of that.
• 1:15:50
  And that's fine. I hate that too.
• 1:15:52
  But it's like, I'm not doing that.
• 1:15:53
  So you've got no reason to judge me for that, you know what I
• 1:15:55
  mean? Let me know when you're next in
• 1:15:57
  Manchester. I'd love to come see you play.
• 1:15:59
  Let me go. Fantastic, fantastic.
• 1:16:02
  Let's quickly talk about this deal that you just signed as
• 1:16:04
  you've signed with DJR Success Entertainment.
• 1:16:08
  Tell us about that. Right.
• 1:16:12
  OK, Yeah. I'm.
• 1:16:17
  I'm going to need this clip because there's a lot of
• 1:16:19
  speculation about why I've made this decision.
• 1:16:22
  So David, the owner of the label, personally, when I first
• 1:16:27
  met him, I didn't like him. I'm going to be completely
• 1:16:30
  honest, you know, I've got, I've got to be transparent, like I
• 1:16:33
  didn't like him. I expressed my views to
• 1:16:35
  everyone. I know that I didn't like him.
• 1:16:37
  And that's the reason why there's so much speculation now
• 1:16:39
  that I'm working with him, because it's like, well, you
• 1:16:42
  didn't like him a couple of months ago.
• 1:16:44
  But I think the main thing is, is you know, it's, it's, it's,
• 1:16:48
  it's a grassroots sort of label. And I can, I can see the vision
• 1:16:52
  for what he's trying to do and we're trying to do.
• 1:16:54
  And I'll respect that. The only issue that I did have
• 1:16:57
  with him when he first started off is the fact that I could
• 1:17:00
  tell he was, he was, well, he was trying to be genuine and not
• 1:17:05
  be that guy who was set in a dream.
• 1:17:07
  However, he physically didn't have the experience or capacity
• 1:17:10
  to make these things happen that he said he was going to, no
• 1:17:13
  matter how much he wanted to. He just didn't have the
• 1:17:16
  experience or the resources. And I can understand that I've
• 1:17:19
  got, you know, but it's, it's, it's when it's the, you know, I
• 1:17:23
  do this for a living, you know what I mean?
• 1:17:25
  So if you tell me you're going to be able to pay my rent one
• 1:17:27
  month and then two days before that happens, you can't do that.
• 1:17:32
  I'm, you know, I'm not going to be happy, you know, and I told
• 1:17:36
  that to him at the time, that was the situation that happened.
• 1:17:38
  You know, he set up a gig and had to cancel it.
• 1:17:39
  And you know, that's fine. I wasn't happy at the time
• 1:17:42
  because I had to work out how I was going to eat and how I was
• 1:17:45
  going to pay my rent. But the main thing I was annoyed
• 1:17:49
  about was lack of result despite all the talk that was coming out
• 1:17:54
  his mouth. So when, when this was last
• 1:17:57
  year, when we got to this year, I was, you know, I was a little
• 1:18:01
  bit more set up and didn't really have to like, I didn't
• 1:18:04
  need him as much. I think.
• 1:18:07
  I think the issue before was like, I was relying a lot on him
• 1:18:09
  because he said he could do those things, but now I truly
• 1:18:12
  don't need it. And so we met up a few weeks
• 1:18:15
  ago, started talking and he started telling me about what he
• 1:18:19
  wants to do. And I was like, right, OK, let
• 1:18:20
  me stop you there. Before I even sign anything.
• 1:18:25
  I want to see some results before, you know what I mean?
• 1:18:28
  Like, I just want to see you do something because so far what
• 1:18:32
  I've got to show is nothing, absolutely nothing.
• 1:18:35
  So, you know, he started getting me, getting me some like media
• 1:18:39
  appearances and whatnot. No, he's just text me now.
• 1:18:42
  But no, he started getting me like some media appearances and
• 1:18:51
  managed to get me in contact with the radio station to get me
• 1:18:55
  like my own radio show, setting up artists down here, which is,
• 1:18:58
  which is it's really good, really positive for me.
• 1:19:01
  Like I, I would sign just off that.
• 1:19:04
  So that's exactly what I did, like the opportunities there.
• 1:19:07
  But let me just make it clear, he doesn't own any of my music
• 1:19:11
  like he doesn't like. I'm not signing any.
• 1:19:13
  I was very careful to make sure that I'm not signing any
• 1:19:17
  royalties or anything like that away, right?
• 1:19:20
  In fact, this is one for the people as well.
• 1:19:22
  What I said to him was, I'm not giving you a penny unless you
• 1:19:26
  make it for me, right? So I'm not like, I'm not signing
• 1:19:30
  anything away. I'm like, I've worked very hard
• 1:19:33
  for all of my own intellectual property and I wouldn't let
• 1:19:35
  anyone profit off that. Like I like I wouldn't unless it
• 1:19:39
  was for good reason. So now we're, we're sort of at a
• 1:19:42
  point where, you know, we're, we're rebuilding the trust in
• 1:19:45
  that relationship, but it's not like a, it's not like a manager
• 1:19:50
  employee type relationship. Like let me make it clear, like
• 1:19:53
  I'm a director of his company and like I am an, I'm an advisor
• 1:19:58
  to his label as well. Like documented there is, there
• 1:20:01
  are contracts for that. Like I'm not just he's signed to
• 1:20:05
  my label, you know what I mean? So he's just going to turn up to
• 1:20:08
  the studio, not like he calls me for advice.
• 1:20:10
  You know, like he calls me to work out how to set up ciphers
• 1:20:14
  and and all of that. So it's just a beneficial for
• 1:20:16
  him as it is for me. You know, it, it's a
• 1:20:19
  partnership. It's not I I now my ass belongs
• 1:20:24
  to David Rickson. Like it's.
• 1:20:25
  It's not how it works. I'm glad I asked.
• 1:20:29
  I wasn't even thinking of asking, but like it's sounds
• 1:20:33
  like you got a good deal there and to be honest, it's the kind
• 1:20:36
  of deal you want. Like a bit of a different
• 1:20:40
  example, but so I also do acting, right?
• 1:20:43
  And I do like acting, voice acting, etcetera.
• 1:20:47
  And I don't have an agent for music.
• 1:20:50
  I you know, I don't have it for voice acting, but I do have it
• 1:20:53
  for acting and film. And recently I've been like I've
• 1:20:59
  always everyday I'm applying for staff auditioning, etcetera,
• 1:21:02
  right. And you've got two types of
• 1:21:05
  agreements. You've got exclusive and non
• 1:21:07
  exclusives and for voice acting, they tend to be, you tend to be
• 1:21:13
  on a separate contract for that with acting, right?
• 1:21:17
  And I was a bit concerned like, oh, if I'm applying for these
• 1:21:21
  things, am I exclusive and am I not?
• 1:21:23
  So I looked at my contract again and I have read for it already,
• 1:21:26
  but like a, you know, reminder, Oh, I'm on a non exclusive.
• 1:21:29
  Not only can I apply for whatever I want and they don't
• 1:21:33
  get a cut of that because that's my own stuff that I've gotten,
• 1:21:38
  but I can also sign with other agencies of a what I'm not going
• 1:21:43
  to do that, but if I wanted to, I could.
• 1:21:46
  And it's it's, it's a pretty cool one And and it's fair.
• 1:21:49
  Like they get a, a cut of what they get me, which I think
• 1:21:53
  that's a better way to do business.
• 1:21:55
  And with the setup that you've got there makes much more sense.
• 1:21:58
  You know, like, why should the agency or whoever get money from
• 1:22:04
  stuff that you like they haven't in any way financed or created
• 1:22:07
  or whatever, you know, that's your music.
• 1:22:09
  And I, I would love to sign to an inter label for that reason.
• 1:22:13
  I don't want to sign with a major label.
• 1:22:15
  Like, yeah, all right, the resources would be great.
• 1:22:18
  But like, I don't want them to own my music.
• 1:22:20
  I don't want to get anything from that because it's my music.
• 1:22:23
  It's not yours. Like, well, fuck, you know, I
• 1:22:26
  totally agree with that. I think it's very sensible and
• 1:22:31
  and you've approached it pure business.
• 1:22:33
  Do you know what I mean? Like you've really, you've
• 1:22:34
  ironed it out, you know, and you've both sat down and agreed
• 1:22:38
  and gone. Yeah.
• 1:22:39
  All right. This is how we're going to
• 1:22:40
  conduct business, you know, and it's all above board and
• 1:22:42
  official. And that's how it should be
• 1:22:44
  done. Yeah, man, I think ultimately I
• 1:22:47
  missed like I just had enough of sourcing like things like this,
• 1:22:55
  me being sat on this. But this is down to David.
• 1:22:57
  This ain't down to me. Thank you, David.
• 1:22:59
  Appreciate it. It, it gives me more time to,
• 1:23:02
  you know, fucking source geeks and other ways of making money
• 1:23:05
  through music. There's otherwise I'd be
• 1:23:07
  scouring the Internet looking for you Christians, you know
• 1:23:10
  what I mean? Like it's, and it does take a
• 1:23:12
  lot of time, you know, this like sort of like the admin and the
• 1:23:15
  mundial and writing up sort of articles to post on to
• 1:23:20
  publications and things like that.
• 1:23:22
  I'm not good at that. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:23:24
  And I was really stressing myself out, and it made me feel
• 1:23:27
  like I was lazy because I wasn't doing these things.
• 1:23:31
  But in reality, it was just too much of A load on my shoulders
• 1:23:33
  with everything else. So it's been really nice to be
• 1:23:36
  able to sign some responsibility away and go, yeah, this is your
• 1:23:40
  job. This isn't my job anymore.
• 1:23:41
  Here you go. Bye.
• 1:23:42
  I mean. I completely understand.
• 1:23:45
  I desperately need it myself. Like I do everything myself now
• 1:23:48
  and I have been for years and it is tiring.
• 1:23:51
  It's so tiring, like I sooner or later you do need to hand the
• 1:23:56
  reins of stuff over. I'm 20 bro, look at me.
• 1:23:59
  This is what it's done to me man.
• 1:24:01
  I look like 32 apparently. No, you don't.
• 1:24:04
  You look great, mate. You look great.
• 1:24:05
  When I said I thought you you were more my age, I didn't mean
• 1:24:09
  looks, I mean more like you. You seem very mature.
• 1:24:12
  Do you know what I mean? And that's a good thing.
• 1:24:15
  You know, you look, you look great.
• 1:24:16
  You look like mid 20s I would say.
• 1:24:19
  He's backpedalling now. No, I go back.
• 1:24:21
  Go back and hear what I said. Yeah.
• 1:24:23
  I don't lie. I don't bullshit.
• 1:24:27
  You should bro, you should chat to Dave.
• 1:24:28
  I'm sure there's I'm sure there's something he could do
• 1:24:31
  for you if you're looking to. You never know.
• 1:24:33
  You never know. I mean, I think for me, I'm very
• 1:24:35
  particular about the stuff that I'm looking for.
• 1:24:39
  I, I don't know exactly what it is, if it's a talent manager, if
• 1:24:43
  it's an agent, I, I don't know. For example, with this podcast,
• 1:24:48
  I used to do clips. I stopped doing clips for a few
• 1:24:51
  reasons. The main one was after 4 1/2
• 1:24:54
  years of doing it, it didn't in any way improve the results.
• 1:24:58
  You know, it was, it was getting traction, but it just wasn't
• 1:25:01
  helping the podcast, which is the reason that you do clips.
• 1:25:04
  You know, it's supposed to drive the traction to the show and,
• 1:25:09
  and it was taking so much of my time to, to do it and not get
• 1:25:13
  anything back. And that, and that is key.
• 1:25:15
  So like, I think I would want someone to create a new channel
• 1:25:19
  and just do clips for me. That would be #1 #2 would be
• 1:25:23
  someone to help me with social media #3 would be, I guess,
• 1:25:28
  music promotion. I don't know.
• 1:25:29
  But at the end of the day, I, I'm a firm believer that things
• 1:25:34
  happen at the time they're supposed to happen.
• 1:25:37
  And it's, it's progress. Like a lot of people give up,
• 1:25:39
  but I've been pushing this like 6 years now like this, this show
• 1:25:43
  been doing this five years over 300 episodes.
• 1:25:45
  It takes time to get good at your craft.
• 1:25:47
  And, and you know, one of the things that David asked me was
• 1:25:50
  about my stats for the show. We don't have like, sorry, I
• 1:25:55
  don't, I say we, I don't have amazing stats on this show.
• 1:26:00
  It varies. It's it's sometimes I get a show
• 1:26:03
  that gets hundreds or thousands of views, listens.
• 1:26:06
  Other times it's like scraping 5.
• 1:26:09
  It's really weird. It's difficult.
• 1:26:10
  And I said to him, I was like, it's difficult for me to give
• 1:26:12
  you like a definitive like here's what it is.
• 1:26:16
  All I can tell you is audiences, mostly American, English,
• 1:26:20
  European split. And then it's like 6040 female,
• 1:26:24
  male. And then and you know, like, if
• 1:26:28
  nothing else, I'll give you a very good interview.
• 1:26:30
  That's what I do. That's what I'm good at.
• 1:26:32
  The only thing I care about, bruv, to be fair, is the
• 1:26:34
  interview. Like the viewership is like for
• 1:26:37
  me, this is this is something I give to the viewers, right?
• 1:26:41
  So, like, I know you say that you don't clip it, but I'll want
• 1:26:44
  this and I'll I'll clip it myself.
• 1:26:46
  You know what I mean? This this is purely just extra
• 1:26:49
  stuff to get to give to the viewers.
• 1:26:52
  I'm I, I don't really mind how many viewers you have.
• 1:26:55
  I know I'm going to bring viewers to you, but all I wanted
• 1:26:58
  today was just like an authentic, genuine conversation.
• 1:27:02
  Just give me a chance to like, you know, lay out who I am.
• 1:27:05
  And you know, it's, it's been nice to meet you as well, bro,
• 1:27:07
  I'm sure. There's yeah, you too, man.
• 1:27:09
  Speak. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:27:10
  I, I find it always positive. It's not always, it's not always
• 1:27:13
  about views, mate, you know what I mean?
• 1:27:15
  But then Dave's just doing his job.
• 1:27:16
  He's like when I get him or when I get it was the biggest podcast
• 1:27:19
  and all that. No, I, I listen, I, I, I
• 1:27:21
  honestly think like with, with you, what you're doing, it is
• 1:27:25
  just a matter of time and getting those right contacts.
• 1:27:27
  I would love to see you on those bigger shows.
• 1:27:29
  I think you've got the personality, you got the mindset
• 1:27:33
  there, you know, you got your shit figured out.
• 1:27:34
  Now it's just a case of moving those resources and being like,
• 1:27:37
  right, how can I get to where we want us to get kind of thing,
• 1:27:42
  you know, maritime and resources.
• 1:27:44
  It takes time. It's a snowball thing.
• 1:27:46
  Like do you think, do you think everyone starts off at Wembley?
• 1:27:50
  Like no, it don't happen. Does it like like this is the
• 1:27:53
  small podcast and then something will lead off here.
• 1:27:56
  I'll end up at another one. And then in a year I'll I'll, I
• 1:27:59
  don't know, I'll be sat there with Andrew Tate.
• 1:28:01
  Not that I want that, but. All right, a couple of final
• 1:28:07
  questions for you to round things off.
• 1:28:09
  Completely unrelated to today's topics actually.
• 1:28:13
  Well, no, this is still actually in rap.
• 1:28:15
  Related question What has rap taught you about life?
• 1:28:21
  OK. In turn, right, so there's a lot
• 1:28:31
  of things. This is the thing, right?
• 1:28:33
  So I would say know what you have don't like, don't let don't
• 1:28:42
  feel like you have to prove it to everyone else what you have,
• 1:28:45
  because you're only going to come across like a bitch.
• 1:28:50
  Don't make your problems everyone else's problems because
• 1:28:54
  it's you know, people have got their own shit to deal with.
• 1:28:56
  So when you're in like, you know, like a meeting and
• 1:28:59
  whatnot, sorry, I've got this going on, this going on this
• 1:29:01
  going on this like fuck off. No one cares.
• 1:29:03
  Like no one has don't meet your problems, other people's
• 1:29:05
  problems. Obviously there's there's a time
• 1:29:07
  and a place for it, but usually within music, there's there's
• 1:29:10
  there's no point and just stay positive, stay positive.
• 1:29:14
  Don't let the fuckers grind you down.
• 1:29:16
  You're going to have so many people that don't want to see
• 1:29:19
  you do well, so many people that are going to tear you apart
• 1:29:22
  intentionally, whether it be in a disenvironment or or just
• 1:29:26
  online or in person. Like there's always going to be
• 1:29:29
  people who who don't like you what you do.
• 1:29:32
  But usually the amount of people who don't like what you do is a
• 1:29:37
  direct correlation of how well you're actually doing.
• 1:29:42
  I see. Anyway, in terms of jealousy,
• 1:29:44
  like there are people like there are people whose opinions do not
• 1:29:48
  fucking matter. They've got no credentials in
• 1:29:50
  music, right? If they don't like what you're
• 1:29:52
  doing, 9 times out of 10 it's because they have a personal
• 1:29:56
  problem with you, not because of your music. 9 times out of 10
• 1:29:59
  it's because they just don't like you.
• 1:30:02
  Now focus more on getting your music respected and liked by the
• 1:30:08
  right people within the scene. As long as you're impressing
• 1:30:12
  those people, those are these, these guys, these haters, they
• 1:30:16
  don't matter. They do not matter.
• 1:30:19
  Fantastic stuff man. What's the best advice you've
• 1:30:24
  ever received? Pray about it.
• 1:30:38
  That's, but I'm, I'm, I'm a man of God, right?
• 1:30:41
  OK. The best piece of advice I've
• 1:30:43
  ever had is always just pray. Do you feel happy?
• 1:30:46
  Celebrate, pray. If you feel sad, you need
• 1:30:50
  guidance. Pray like prayer is the answer
• 1:30:52
  to everything. All right, that's the best
• 1:30:54
  advice I've got. So I'm not like a big religious
• 1:30:57
  guy. I do believe in God and stuff
• 1:30:58
  the universe. I've got like my own little
• 1:31:00
  weird thing that I believe in. But I do remember, like I saw
• 1:31:05
  this clip one time, it was like street interviews and this guy
• 1:31:09
  pulls this like this guy aside. He's like a tall black man, like
• 1:31:13
  dressed really well, quite clearly very rich.
• 1:31:17
  And he just said like, hey, man, like what do you do?
• 1:31:19
  Like tell me about yourself, you successful man, all this.
• 1:31:22
  And he, you know, have a little mini interaction and then he
• 1:31:25
  goes, OK, like to what do you owe your success?
• 1:31:29
  Like what's your mindset? It's quite some sort of question
• 1:31:32
  like that. And he says everything that I
• 1:31:34
  think and that I try, I try to apply it to something in
• 1:31:39
  scripture and see if it matches up.
• 1:31:42
  And if it does, I run with it. I just thought that that was
• 1:31:46
  fascinating, this idea of like, OK, you're trying to match it up
• 1:31:48
  with the with what you believe in.
• 1:31:50
  And he swore by it, but he was like, I apply this all the time.
• 1:31:53
  I read it, I study it every single day.
• 1:31:55
  And that's how I approach it. And I think I think it's whether
• 1:32:00
  you're religious or not religious, I think a lot can be
• 1:32:03
  said for sticking to your principles and the things that
• 1:32:07
  you believe in and being consistent with it.
• 1:32:09
  You know, you mentioned positivity there, not caring
• 1:32:12
  about what people think. Like, you know, like really just
• 1:32:14
  trying to stick within what you're doing and finding your
• 1:32:17
  own audience. Like I look at my efforts right
• 1:32:20
  now. I know that a lot of the people
• 1:32:24
  that I say play to weekly are not my audience.
• 1:32:27
  They don't really care. There might be a few people that
• 1:32:30
  and a few of my friends have even told me that they listen to
• 1:32:32
  my music, which is pretty mind boggling.
• 1:32:35
  I'm like really? But that's cool.
• 1:32:38
  That's good to hear. But like for the most part, you
• 1:32:41
  know, I can see the apathy in the rooms that I play and I can
• 1:32:43
  see some people are interested, some people not.
• 1:32:47
  But I'm finding more of the people that are interested in my
• 1:32:50
  music are online and it comes from every single day posting
• 1:32:55
  and posting and posting. I'm like the day 173 I've posted
• 1:32:59
  about, Yeah, promoting my music since my first proper single
• 1:33:04
  came out in I think it was October or November last year.
• 1:33:09
  The album dropped to March 28th and I've been just every single
• 1:33:13
  day, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 1:33:15
  And it's crazy. Like you get consistent with
• 1:33:17
  that. People look at you like you're
• 1:33:18
  crazy for it and silly. But you know what I don't, I
• 1:33:21
  don't care. I'm reaching these new people.
• 1:33:23
  People are asking like there was a person today like, oh, I love
• 1:33:26
  this song. Where can I find it?
• 1:33:28
  I was like, is it on Spotify? Like yes, it's called this.
• 1:33:32
  Hope you like it. If you and they were like, thank
• 1:33:35
  you. And I was like, great, you can.
• 1:33:36
  I hope you like the rest of the album From where the album, you
• 1:33:38
  know, it's it's just talking to people interacting.
• 1:33:41
  Like you'll find your audience 100 percent, 100%.
• 1:33:45
  Definitely. I think yeah, no, like it's just
• 1:33:49
  communication, you know, like it's I found like the inverse
• 1:33:54
  effect. So people don't particularly
• 1:33:57
  like me online. But in like I I find I create
• 1:34:02
  such a great audience, say if I'm out busking, like it's like
• 1:34:06
  people just come to me, you know, in fact, they just flock
• 1:34:09
  to me. But if I was if I was to try and
• 1:34:10
  get all those people online to come through, like it would just
• 1:34:13
  never happen. But I'm.
• 1:34:14
  Just I think it's because like there's an idea of you and then
• 1:34:19
  there's you, you, you come across as a lovely bloke, right?
• 1:34:24
  And I think it's more people see you as like this, oh, he's this
• 1:34:29
  shit Disturber rapper. He's like, you know, trouble.
• 1:34:31
  And then they spend 5 minutes talking to you and they're like,
• 1:34:34
  oh, this is a nice bloke. Good dude.
• 1:34:36
  Yeah, yeah, I think. I think it's that.
• 1:34:40
  Yeah. I mean, no, I feel you.
• 1:34:42
  I feel, I feel that, I mean, just compose myself.
• 1:34:46
  I just have like 5 different points.
• 1:34:49
  No, but that's, that's the power of social media.
• 1:34:52
  Sometimes, you know, sometimes you have some really people who
• 1:34:55
  appear really lovely online but actually horrible.
• 1:34:58
  And then people who are like, really, you know, they can like,
• 1:35:02
  really irritate you because of how they display their views
• 1:35:05
  online or how they appear online, but in person, they're
• 1:35:09
  actually really nice, you know? There it is.
• 1:35:12
  Like can you really judge anyone from their Instagram page?
• 1:35:14
  That's the question. No, no, the whole thing's a
• 1:35:16
  marketing thing, you know, It's just, it's just advertising, you
• 1:35:19
  know? But that's, but some people,
• 1:35:21
  that's all they have of me, you know, like that's all they have
• 1:35:25
  to judge me off. Well, I don't know, I mean, I
• 1:35:30
  always think that like it's like you say, once you've sat down
• 1:35:33
  with someone and spoken to them for for more than an hour, I
• 1:35:36
  think then like I have, then you get a better idea of a person.
• 1:35:40
  I think. I don't think you can judge
• 1:35:42
  people in snapshots, especially what you see online.
• 1:35:45
  You know, there's people that followed me for years and and
• 1:35:49
  they think they know me fully and I'm like, trust me, you, you
• 1:35:51
  don't know me fully. You know me fairly well and some
• 1:35:53
  of you have become my friends, but it's what you choose to
• 1:35:57
  show. It's, you know, I, I never
• 1:35:59
  believe it's sensible to show everything.
• 1:36:01
  I think it's you show what you want to show.
• 1:36:05
  I think it's good to be authentic, but I think it's
• 1:36:08
  dangerous to show everything, to give everything.
• 1:36:10
  I don't think you should ever do that.
• 1:36:11
  Even with those closest to you. Always keep a little bit for
• 1:36:14
  yourself. Yeah, definitely.
• 1:36:16
  You don't want to. You don't want to give
• 1:36:17
  everything away. I think it's, it's difficult as
• 1:36:20
  an artist because I don't want to just show this side of me
• 1:36:25
  that is like this massive rapper, you know what I mean?
• 1:36:27
  Like I've got a lot of songs that are reflective of that,
• 1:36:30
  that are like, I'm Sally and I've got a massive ego and I'm a
• 1:36:34
  legend. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:36:35
  But then I've also got songs that are very vulnerable and
• 1:36:39
  like, very they show you a completely different side of me.
• 1:36:44
  And that'll be the stuff that wins people over ultimately.
• 1:36:46
  Do you know what I mean? As you keep going in your in
• 1:36:49
  your rap career and you release more and more music, people will
• 1:36:54
  get it. People will get the vision.
• 1:36:56
  You know, it's still early days and oh, it's an exciting
• 1:37:00
  journey. Man, I envy you.
• 1:37:02
  Right, a couple. More What's the biggest life
• 1:37:05
  lesson you've learned so far? Biggest life lesson?
• 1:37:09
  Don't cheat. Yes.
• 1:37:11
  That's the biggest life lesson, hands down.
• 1:37:15
  Final one, do you have any upcoming projects or final
• 1:37:18
  thoughts that you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 1:37:30
  Yeah, I think the main thing that I want to say is let this
• 1:37:34
  be no matter who you are, let this be your notification to
• 1:37:39
  just go through your friends and just see who actually has your
• 1:37:45
  best intentions at heart. Go do that because I feel like
• 1:37:51
  sometimes you need to do that like every few months or so.
• 1:37:53
  Just take stock of who's new in your life and what intentions
• 1:37:57
  they have for you. And if if they don't align with
• 1:38:01
  what you want for your life, then for God's sake, get them
• 1:38:04
  out of your life. And I'll say that I'll say that
• 1:38:06
  with love after learning the hard way numerous times.
• 1:38:10
  But yeah, everyone needs to do that.
• 1:38:13
  Totally agree. Could not agree more.
• 1:38:16
  It's been an absolute pleasure man.
• 1:38:18
  I thank you so much for appearing on the show, for
• 1:38:20
  giving us your time, telling us a little bit about yourself.
• 1:38:23
  You know what you're bringing to the table.
• 1:38:25
  Like I said at the beginning, it's it's exciting times for
• 1:38:28
  you. I can only see good things.
• 1:38:31
  All I would say is just keep this mindset man and Sky's the
• 1:38:35
  limit. Thank you, brother.
• 1:38:37
  Yeah, no, it's been great to have a bit of conversation with
• 1:38:40
  you mates, you know what I mean? I'll tell you what, I am very
• 1:38:42
  envious of the hair, real long hair and.
• 1:38:47
  Just just don't go to the barbers for four or five years.
• 1:38:49
  You'll be right. But in this heat though, bro I.
• 1:38:53
  Was like, oh mate, it's, it's, yeah, it's not as bad as you'd
• 1:38:58
  think, but it is, it's annoying. I have lately I've been thinking
• 1:39:01
  about cutting it and I don't know.
• 1:39:04
  I don't know. Because what I want to do
• 1:39:05
  eventually is when I do cut it as I want to donate it to
• 1:39:07
  charity. I want to make it a big thing,
• 1:39:09
  you know, make some money and get that to a charity, but I
• 1:39:13
  just don't know. It's the timing, it's figuring
• 1:39:15
  it out. I, I don't know yet.
• 1:39:17
  It doesn't feel like the right time, but I feel like it's
• 1:39:19
  coming. Yeah, you wait just a little bit
• 1:39:22
  more mental instability and it will be gone.
• 1:39:27
  Diet Blue and change my name, right?
• 1:39:31
  I'm not going to take up any more of your time.
• 1:39:32
  Just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for watching
• 1:39:34
  and listening. To all the followers, the
• 1:39:36
  listeners of the Christian Reef Podcast, thank you so much for
• 1:39:40
  watching and listening. Thank you to David for putting
• 1:39:43
  this show together. Go out of your way to check out
• 1:39:47
  Sally. I really think he deserves so
• 1:39:50
  much attention with everything he's doing and you should go out
• 1:39:54
  of your way to check him out. He's really, really good.
• 1:39:56
  Thank you so much for watching and listening, and I'll see you
• 1:39:59
  all in the next one.