Latest / Matt Brown Show - Conversations That Power The Business World. / MBS983 - Steal the Show With Michael Port (New York Times Best-Selling Author, Speaker, & Former Actor)

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MBS983 - Steal the Show With Michael Port (New York Times Best-Selling Author, Speaker, & Former Actor) · Matt Brown Show - Conversations That Power The Business World.

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Tricking anybody into thinking it's red.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: It's actually red.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's completely authentic for a chameleon to be whatever color it is based on the environment that it's in.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: And so the chameleon's values are still the same insofar as the chameleon has values.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: But a human being has a set of values.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: You have a set of core values, and you're going to adhere to those core values regardless of what role you're playing.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: You might just take a different role, but you never have to compromise your values when you do.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the important distinction so that you recognize that, oh, I can play different roles in different situations authentically because I'm going to be true to my values, but I at least in this situation know what my role is and what my objective is.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: So then I can uh behave accordingly and feel much more comfortable in that situation, which gives you more confidence in that situation.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Hi there, guys.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining the Map Brown show powered by SMERocketfield.com once again.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for pushing play.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: I know you have many options out there.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: So today we are joined by Michael Port.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: He is the author of nine books which have been translated into over 29 languages.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: A few of them have even become perennial bestsellers and made it into the lists such as New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and USA Today.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: But this story begins when Michael was an actor.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: You may recall Michael in the series called The Believer, Third Watch, Law and Order, Sex in the City, The Pelican Brief, and many, many other films.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: And he cut his teeth in this whole world of speaking.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Now, nothing has made a greater difference to my life than the ability to speak well.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: If you want success in all the important areas of your life, from your relationship to your career, to your leadership style, to your finances, to discovering your own voice, you have to have the ability to speak well.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: And this is what we cover in today's episode of the Matt Brown show, brought to you by SMERocketfuel.com.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: Now, some things to pay attention to, guys, is where we talk into Michael talking himself into jobs he wasn't qualified for.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Just such a remarkable uh story there that reveals some amazing truth bombs for you.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we also talk about this idea of knowing that you're capable of doing something remarkable, but for some reason you just don't know how to access uh this potential that you have.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and he believes he has unlocked the secret and the key to doing that, and that's a really powerful uh insight that uh you need to pay attention to.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: We also talk about uh why he left acting and he reveals some actual performance strategies that he's learnt through his past in acting.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: We also talk about the power of improvisation and how you can use improv to sell pretty much anything.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and also probably the key point here in this episode is also about this idea of the Foundational 5 framework that he uses to train students and leaders from some of the greatest companies and educational institutions in the world to speak properly.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: If you'd like more information on Michael Port, you can do that by heading over to Michaelport.com.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: And why not check out his academy called the Heroic Public Speaking Worldwide Academy?
3:29
SPEAKER_00: You can join workshops with an international faculty.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: And don't forget, ladies and gentlemen, if you haven't yet done so, you can join the SMERocketfield.com community.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: We are on a mission to reimagine economic possibility for SMEs and small business owners, founders, and entrepreneurs all around the world.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to get the full story, head on over to SMERocketfield.com.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: You can register for free.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: And why not introduce yourself to our global community?
3:57
SPEAKER_00: We'd love to learn about who you are, what's keeping you up at night, and how we can help.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: This is Matt signing out, and I'll see you inside SMERocketfuel.com.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: But for now, enter Michael Port.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: And we're live.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to yet another cracking instalment of the MapRound show.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined all the way from the bright lights of New Jersey, which apparently I'm the only one who really likes.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh but uh Michael Port, welcome to the show.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: Great to have you here.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: So, uh Mike, um, can I call you Mike?
4:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, actually, you can, but it'll remind me of high school.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: In high school, they called me Big Mike.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
4:36
SPEAKER_01: And now I'm not so big.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: So uh I'd like to go with Michael to bring back flashbacks of high school.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: All right, cool.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: My uncle's actually called Mike, so or Michael, so I'll I won't call you his shortened name there.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: But um, but look, let's get into the meat and the potatoes.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: So uh Michael, uh, you have such an incredible story behind you.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh super excited to connect you to my audience around the world.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but for those of our uh viewers and listeners out there that potentially haven't heard much about you, haven't read one of your many awesome books, uh why don't you give us the elevator pitch?
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Who are you?
5:10
SPEAKER_00: What are you about?
5:11
SPEAKER_00: What do we need to know?
5:13
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, I just turned 50 and I've got three kids and an incredible wife who I'm fortunate to work with every day.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: She's my partner at heroic public speaking.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: Many people say, How do you work together?
5:27
SPEAKER_01: I could never work with my spouse.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: But I feel lucky to get to work with my spouse because I get to see her all the time.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: And uh, she's a genius.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: So uh we're very fortunate to do that.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: But I started my career as an actor in the ear in the 90s, in the very early 2000s.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: You would have seen me on shows like Sex in the City, Third Watch, All My Children, Law and Order, 100 Center Street.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it was in movies like Down to Earth, The Pelican Brief, Last Call, The Believer.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: And then I did hundreds of voiceovers for companies like ATT and Pizza Hut and Braun, uh, Coors Beer, and then on-camera commercials for companies like Budweiser and others.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: You remember those Jersey guys, speaking of Jersey, who would uh not the Jersey guys, but we were called the Jersey guys, but the original commercials were the what's up guys, they'd go, What's up?
6:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and you know, they'd call each other up and just say, What's up?
6:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, I wasn't one of those guys.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: I was one of the Jersey guys.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: So instead of saying what's up, we would say, How you doing?
6:22
SPEAKER_01: How you doing?
6:22
SPEAKER_01: How you doing?
6:23
SPEAKER_01: How you doing?
6:24
SPEAKER_01: And then I was always at the end of the commercial, with a after a little beat, which is a pause, I'd say, You don't want to know.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: So that was my job from the beginning of my career.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: But I just found like waiting for other people to give me jobs, going into rooms and uh, you know, prancing around, uh, just crossing my fingers, hopefully I'll fit the part, uh wasn't necessarily something that uh I was comfortable with at that stage of my life.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I went into business.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: I talked my way into a job for which I was completely unqualified.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: Now I told them I was unqualified, but I made my pitch.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: And fortunately, they said, all right, we'll give you a shot.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: And within six months, I was running the division of the company uh that I had uh uh not been qualified to even work for uh six months uh prior.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh but then after about five years, I went on my own, and that's when I started running books in the early in the mid-2000s.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: My first book was Book Yourself Solid.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: That came out in 2006, and that's uh got multiple editions at this point.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: It even has an illustrated edition.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: And my most recent book is called The Referable Speaker.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: And uh that's about using the gigs you get to get the gigs you want uh as a professional speaker or a speaker who is trying to advance your brand and using speaking uh and the platform that it gives you uh to um to move your message forward.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's just so much to get into.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: Um then uh I want to focus today on many of probably a few of your books.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think that the general um sort of paradigm we want to tackle today is this idea of getting your ideas across to people.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: In other words, uh you wrote the book literally about it, steal the show, from speeches to job interviews to deal closing pictures, how to guarantee a standing ovation for all the performances in your life.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the things that resonates with me is that you're a performer.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, from acting to being a businessman to, I mean, to be fair, uh not knowing the detail here, but if you talk your way into a job you're not qualified for, there's something about what you do that makes you special.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: There's a secret source or formula that you have either discovered or or built yourself that allows you to be an actor, it allows you to be a successful entrepreneur, it allows you to be, you started off by saying that you know you're a father of three and you know, very happily married, you're successful personally as well.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: So in all facets of your life, there's something that you're doing that that strikes me as being quintessential to you, um, and what uh and that secret you've written about.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Um and I wanted to um maybe get into um maybe some of the problems that typical you know entrepreneurs face, and obviously my audience is largely entrepreneurs, and they want to be better tomorrow than or today than they were yesterday.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: They want to sell, they want to influence, they want to get their ideas across in a way that can create some kind of quantifiable outcome for them.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you mentioned uh, you know, that uh individual that's been a part of your university, I think that's uh if I can use that word, about how to do this stuff and you know, closing a$50 million deal.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: So what you do works.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: But before we get into the solution, what are some of the typical problems that you encounter?
9:46
SPEAKER_00: If somebody comes into your um heroic public speaking uh, you know, training program, um, what do you typically see?
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Like Matt Brown arrives there on day one or wherever it is, what are they struggling with?
9:59
SPEAKER_01: So there's a couple different things.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: But one of the things that we often see is say, for example, if somebody shows up for an event uh and you know they've been doing some speaking uh and they've gotten some positive feedback.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: But often they know that that they're just scratching the surface.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: They know that they're capable of more, they just don't know how to access it.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Because in large part, when you uh start speaking as a business professional and you're you're leveraging your expertise or your experience, you often rely on a couple things.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Number one, that you know your subject matter, so you feel comfortable talking about it.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: And number two, your natural gift for the gab or your charm.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: The only problem is charm is you know, gift of the gab is talent, it is overrated.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: It will only get you so far.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: What you've see the greatest artists develop over time is mastery of craft so that they can use processes to develop their work and produce outcomes that are transformational for the people that they serve rather than luck and talent.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: When you rely on luck and talent, you're hoping to rise to the occasion.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: But if you uh if you've ever spent any time in the military or you've been around anybody in the military or read anything about the military, you know that the military will will emphasize over and over and over again that you do not rise to the occasion, you fall back on your training.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, even Mike Tyson once said, everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't have craft that you can rely on, then uh you're only going to scratch the surface of your so uh that's where we come in.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, our specialty is the craft of performance, protocols to help develop your intellectual property so that you go through a period of ideation, then you go through a period of content development, then you go through a period of script writing, then you take that work and you put it up on its feet and you start rehearsing it uh through a multi-stage rehearsal process before you put it up in front of an audience.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: And that's very, very different than the way that most people approach uh their work.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh they very rarely do a lot of prep work and instead just rely on their subject matter expertise, uh, their idea of the talent that they have, and then hope to rise to the occasion.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: But it rarely works as effectively as it can.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: So um, if you are relying on talent, it's obviously not enough.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: I suppose it's a finite resource, pretty much like willpower.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, um, you may have the gift of the gap, but even if that gets you to uh let's just say a reasonable level of success, you're suggesting that you can take it further.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm absolutely suggesting it.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: And look, you know, I've people have come to us every once in a while, someone will say something like, Listen, Michael, you know, I get this, I get this the concept of the importance of preparation.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: Like I get it, it makes sense.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, someone might say, Well, I was an athlete, and so I understand, you know, practice, you know, really makes a difference when it comes to game time, but I don't know.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: I've tried rehearsing and I I really just don't think it works, frankly.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Which I always find interesting because you know, there are certain things that are tried and true and tested over hundreds and hundreds of years that the best performers in the world do consistently.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: And one of them is rehearsal.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: So I always find it interesting when somebody who is not trained in performance uh says the things that somebody like Meryl Streep or or Tom Hanks or uh you know uh uh or any of the greatest performers of our time spend the most of their time doing says doesn't work, uh suggests to me uh that they haven't explored it much because but at the same time, I think that they're right.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: Because what happens when you uh when you just do a little bit of rehearsal is instead of being in the moment when you're performing, because you only did a little bit of rehearsal, you don't yet know the material in your bones such that you can allow it to leave you completely, meaning you don't have to think about it, you don't have to worry about it, and it can come to you in the moment organically, but as planned.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: If you only do a little bit of rehearsal, what happens when you're trying to perform is instead of being in the moment, you're trying to recall what you did in rehearsal, which puts you somewhere else.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: And as a result, that recollection, that recall is very slow.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: So you feel stodgy or stiff when you're performing and you don't feel quick like you normally do when you're just speaking extemporaneously or winging it.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: So you feel like you do a better job when you're winging it because things are just moving quickly and you get the adrenaline and you're flowing and it's fast.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but if you've only done a little bit of rehearsal and you're trying to recall what you did, often you feel stuck.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't feel organic to you and you say the rehearsal doesn't work.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: But it's not that the rehearsal doesn't work, it's in fact that you didn't do enough rehearsal.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: That was the problem.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: You did too little rehearsal, and that's why it didn't work.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: So generally, we need to do a lot more rehearsal than we think we do in order to be able to walk on stage and uh and forget everything that we worked on so that it can come to us in the moment and be exactly what we planned on doing.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: It's a pretty high-level concept, but it really does make a big difference when it comes to performing and creating transformational experiences for audiences.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh well, I think the one of the things that maybe you want to, you know, maybe take a left turn on and come back to is your acting experience because what you're describing to me um is something that you've uh obviously done very successfully as an actor.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that I would say is something that's true even in the business world.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, in that like just yesterday I was doing a dry run for a sponsorship uh pitch deck that we're launching a new product, blah, blah.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: And it's amazing.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: You do it once, it's like, well, that sucked, and that could be improved.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: That shouldn't be in there, that structure's wrong.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, you're not that hot at getting your ideas across.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: So maybe, you know, do it another five times.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's it's like peeling away the layer of the onion to kind of get to uh a really amazing uh outcome or performance, as you say.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to get um your views.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: What did acting really teach you about selling or or pitching your ideas outside of you know the uh tried and tested um uh approach of of rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing?
17:33
SPEAKER_00: What are there some of the other things that acting you know brought out in you that you've now that you now teach to you know people around the world?
17:42
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: And to be clear, acting and public speaking are not the same thing.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: They are two different skills, but there is similarity in the craft.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot in the craft of acting that can be used in the craft of public speaking and performing that can be leveraged that often people don't even know exists.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, another one of the issues that um that people have before they start doing this training is they think that the information is paramount, that the information they have is what's most important, the information that they have is what's most interesting to people.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: And yes, of course, that information may be very helpful.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: However, if you want someone to do something different, right?
18:37
SPEAKER_01: If you're trying to change the way someone behaves, it's reasonable to think that you need to also change the way they think.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: If you want to change the way someone behaves, you need to change the way they think.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: But in order to change the way someone thinks, it's also really helpful to change the way they feel.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that actors know, at least trained actors know, is that they are gonna have the most influence on the other performers that they're working with.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: And in the speaker's case, the audience that they're trying to change, is to first focus on changing the way they feel.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: So when you are working on a pitch or a speech of any kind, moment by moment by moment by moment, throughout that performance, ask yourself, how do I want them to feel at this moment so that I can change the way they think, so that I can change what they do.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: So then if you're asking, how do I want them to feel?
19:43
SPEAKER_01: the next question is what do I want them to think?
19:46
SPEAKER_01: The next question is, what do I want them to do?
19:48
SPEAKER_01: So first we focused on feelings, then thinking, then doing.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: And what the actor knows is how to play actions.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: It's a high-level acting technique that's actually taught in low-level classes, but not done very effectively.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: It does take a while to develop, but it is something that human beings do all day long, often without realizing they're doing it.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: What the performer is able to do is re-engineer human behavior so they understand why people do what they do, what motivates them to do what they do, and then influence the other people that they are performing with to change the way they feel, change the way they think, and change what they do.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: And that concept, that technique of playing actions is of is both elegantly simple and sophisticated at the same time.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Because what you're doing is you're picking a verb, an active verb, that hopefully will influence how you say what you say so that they change the way they feel.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: Because one sentence, one line could be said in a hundred different ways.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: You know, you can tell someone you love them uh in a way that really means you want them.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm not gonna do that right now, uh Matt, because that might be a little uncomfortable uh afterwards, but you can also tell someone you love them in a way that's like really sweet, like you, you know, you love a sibling, like uh like a like you know, you love a friend.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: You say, Oh, I just love you.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean you want them.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: So we know how to do this organically.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Can we do it intentionally to produce specific outcomes for the people that we serve?
21:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh and that's a pretty high-level technique, but it is something that we can all think about on a daily basis.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: We can be more intentional about how do I want this person to feel in this conversation at this moment so that I can influence the way they think, so that I can influence how they act.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: So I get the concept, I love it.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's something that I uh as a CEO do every day.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Which is try and change the way people feel because I think especially now on COVID, like we're going through a third wave here in um in South Africa, but the epicenter's like literally outside.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: So I've had like a few staff um get hit, and uh one of my staff's grandparents' uh grandmother died, and it's pretty hectic.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, for me as a CEO, I'm very cognizant of what people are going through every day.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I find that as a CEO, um, sometimes, and I think this is what I want to make sure I'm connecting 100% to you when what you're trying to get across to our audience, um, in that the words that you use matter, and it's that idea of you know, it's not what you say, it's how you say it, you know, you it it to the using the love analogy that you that you referred to.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: Um but what I think um a lot of people lack is that understanding of what you uh what words or verbiage to use uh as maybe one very small layer to to look at.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Um but more broadly, and I and I can speak for myself most definitely, is that sometimes you just don't have the words, the right words to to use.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Um and maybe and maybe that's not a fair judgment because you lack confidence in certain contexts.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: So if for instance, if you put you know me in a boardroom and you want me to sell something, I'll do that all day different, you know, no problem.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: But if you want me to uh be a more of a kind of a managing director role and deal with people and culture and things like that, I have a very specific style, uh, which is it's not empathetic necessarily.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: You understand?
23:45
SPEAKER_00: So as a leader, you have to wear different hats in different contexts.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: And for entrepreneurs, especially those running startups, they're doing everything.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: They're doing HR and sales and hiring and firing and the whole thing.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: And so they have to figure out what use uh words to use when, and to adopt that framework that you mentioned, right, which is to change how people feel, to change uh feel rather to get them to change how they think and ultimately to get them to do what you want them to do.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: So um, could you maybe double down on that for us?
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, how does one develop the confidence to maybe choose different words or find different approaches in that particular, you know, uh kind of context?
24:25
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: So one of the themes that I focused on in Steal the Show, one of my books that you mentioned earlier that came out in 2015, is the idea of playing the right role in the right situation at the right time.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: Because as human beings, we naturally play different roles in different situations based on what is called for in that situation.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: And it is again something that we can do intentionally to give ourselves more confidence that we are finding that we can find the right words in these situations that are new to us because we understand what role we're playing.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: One of the reasons that I think sometimes people have a hard time finding the right words is because they don't know what role they're playing in that particular situation.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, you know, if you can first identify the role that you're playing, then it makes it a lot easier to figure out what on earth you're supposed to say.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Because then you can get clear on what your objective is.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: If you know what your role is, then you can get clear on your objective.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: If you know what your objective is, it makes it a lot easier to find the right words in pursuit of that objective.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: And so when you are with your kids, you probably play a different role than when you are with your colleagues at the office.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: But you might have three kids, and each kid is very different, and you may play a different role with each one of your kids.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, I have three kids.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: One is a biological uh child, and then my the other two uh are my quote unquote stepchildren because uh we're a blended family, but I see them as my children.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't see them as step or other, you know.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: But I still have a slightly different role with each one of them.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: My role with Jake, who is my biological son, is slightly different than my role with either Ruby or Leo.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: And it's important to understand what role you're playing so that you don't either step on toes, say the wrong thing at the wrong time.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it's the same thing when I'm my when I play when I'm in the CEO role at the office and my wife is in the head of sales role.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, our relation, our the roles that we're playing here are gonna be different.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna influence how we behave.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh and and uh but our role at home is gonna be different than our role here uh in the office, uh each each of our roles, rather.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: So uh I think it's really important to recognize that it's okay to be chameleon-like.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: Now, that may be provocative to some because when you hear chameleon, you know, you might think inauthentic.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: But think about a chameleon for a second.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: When a chameleon is on a green leaf and it is green because it's on that green leaf, is it pretending to be green, or is it actually, in fact, green blending it with that leaf?
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's actually green.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: And the same thing uh if it's on a red leaf, it actually turns red.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: It's not pretending to turn red, it's not tricking anybody into thinking it's red, it's actually red.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: So it's completely authentic for a chameleon to be whatever color it is based on the environment that it's in.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: And so the chameleon's values are still the same insofar as the chameleon has values, but a human being has a set of values.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: You have a set of core values, and you're gonna adhere to those core values regardless of what role you're playing.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: You might just take a different role, but you never have to compromise your values uh when you do.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the important distinction so that you recognize that, oh, I can play different roles in different situations authentically, because I'm gonna be true to my values, but I at least in this situation know what my role is and what my objective is, so then I can uh behave accordingly and feel much more comfortable in that situation, which gives you more confidence in that situation.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: That's uh so true now that you've said it.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: Because I uh as a father, I've got a baby girl and um I've got a boy's six.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: And I'm very I'm you know, I'm loving for sure across you know both of them, but certainly with uh with my baby girl, I'm I have a different objective in terms of how I want her to feel.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: It's a funny thing, right?
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Because you know, it's like you you as a parent, I don't, I don't know.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: I think as a leader, it's far harder to lead children than it is to lead uh you know an actual workforce.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why that is, uh, but I think that's true, you know.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Um uh because I just think the consequences are so high, you know.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh the the uh because it your feelings are are like deeply baked into this person, like it's you, it's like it's crazy.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh my god, there's a little mini me running around, you know.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's a and it's a it's a true miracle.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: So uh I I find that in in though in in in the personal sense, uh it's actually I want to say that the more invested I am in the relationship, uh-huh, the easier it is.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
29:51
SPEAKER_00: Like it's like if you think about kids versus say a new hire, how invested are you one versus the other?
29:58
SPEAKER_00: And if we're talking about you know getting ideas across, influencing people, changing the way they feel, if I'm not invested in you, Michael Port, in this relationship, like it will change how I communicate to you, you know, and vice versa.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: And the same, and you know, and and the same will obviously be true in you know kids or um you know any other context.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh it is about the I I suppose really what resonates with me was about making sure you're clear on what the objective is.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Because I think sometimes we uh it's so obvious now that you've said it, but it's so oftentimes missing from how we engage with people in general.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the ways to make your objective or your intentions clear is by stating what your intentions are and what your intentions are not.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, uh if you're in a leadership position and you say to somebody, uh, can I see you in my office?
31:01
SPEAKER_01: Even if you were about to give them a briefcase full of a million dollars in cash, they would be your anxious.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Just that statement alone, can I see you in my office?
31:11
SPEAKER_01: is gonna make anybody uncomfortable.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: Even if my wife says, Michael, can I talk to you for a second?
31:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, uh-oh, what do I do?
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't help it.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: I have, I, I, I this is just programming from when I was younger.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: And uh, and so I think that if you state your intentions clearly and you and what your intentions are not, it often creates safety because if you want to change the way people feel, the way they think, the way they behave, it's critically important to focus on safety first.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Because if the person you're talking to feels safe, they're much more likely to engage and be open to what you are sharing.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: If your audiences feel safe, they are more likely to engage and be open to what you're sharing.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you come out as a speaker, and the first thing you say is, uh, hey, listen, um, go ahead and raise your hand if you've had impure thoughts about somebody that you work with at the office.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: What?
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Who on earth is gonna do that?
32:10
SPEAKER_01: Immediately they're gonna think, okay, I do not trust this person.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: This is this is unsafe, and they're not gonna want to engage with you throughout that presentation.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: So it's the same thing when you're talking, you know, uh, say to a kid.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, use you use the kids as an example.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: Let's just say, for example, that you have a daughter who's 16, and historically, she's been uh pretty studious and focused on extracurricular activities.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: She plays an instrument and sports, and she's been social, but you know, she's run with a pretty uh pretty mellow crowd.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: But she starts dating a guy who you are not so crazy about because this guy runs in a slightly different social scene, he's a little edgier.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: You think he might be a few bad decisions away from reform school, and I'm not comfortable with this.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: But she's loving it.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: This is exciting.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: She's got a whole new social scene that she didn't have access to before.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: This guy makes her feel, you know, interesting and important.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and she likes that danger that she's experimenting with or exploring.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: So if you barge in there and say, listen, this guy is a jerk, you're not seeing him anymore.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: That's all there is to it.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: Boom, done.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: How well do you think that's gonna go?
33:27
SPEAKER_01: Probably not very well.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: She's probably gonna push you away and uh create more distance with you and get closer with him.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: But if you said, listen, my intention is not, you know, to force you to stop seeing this guy or to make you break up with him or anything like that.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: That's not my intention at all.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: My only intention in this conversation is to just check in with you because I feel like there's all these activities that you've loved for the last number of years that are such a big part of your life that I know are really meaningful for you.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: And I noticed you haven't been as engaged in them recently.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to just check in with you and to see what you were thinking, what your plans were about those activities.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: Simple.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Simple.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: So she says, okay, all right.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: This sound this sounds relatively safe.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't sound like he's gonna take anything away from me that I want.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: I'll engage in this conversation.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: And what that allows you to do is keep that dialogue open, because if you can keep her focused on the things that uh are important part of her value system, then it may be okay.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: She may stay true to her values, even if she's dating somebody that you're not absolutely thrilled about.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: And maybe in a few weeks or a few months, it'll fizzle out, and then you know, she'll find someone else that you feel a little safer with.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: But setting clear intentions so that she knows what your intentions are and what they are not often helps create safety.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: So when you're going even into a pitch, you can say, look, our intentions are to do to do this, and uh our intentions are not to do this.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: And then the person on the other end goes, oh, okay, that's good.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't have to like hold on to my wallet for dear life or protect you know our resources uh, you know, with with through like clenched fists and gritted teeth.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: They just go, okay, and they relax a little bit.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: And and the more that you can uh help people relax and stop guarding themselves uh so that they're more available and more open, uh, the more likely it is that you can influence how someone feels, how they think, and of course, then what they do.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: That's really awesome.
35:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm totally gonna do that on my uh next sales call and be like, listen, my intention is to do this, but not that.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: So stu what I recommend is start with my intention is not to do this, it's to do this.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh that's so start with what it's not, and then you go to what it is.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: All right, cool.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: So you can allay that fear right away.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: That's very interesting, right?
35:49
SPEAKER_00: Because I think sales, especially now, right?
35:51
SPEAKER_00: Um the you know, uh B2B virtual selling, it's pretty much what many of us well just virtual selling, I suppose, is what many of us are doing now.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: And you know, with this interface, I can't really I can't really gauge that your energy.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's this thing in the middle between us, as much as we're more connected, we're more separate than ever before.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's very easy, it's difficult to really, you know, get a feel for someone with just words.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: Um it's part of the picture, it's not the whole picture.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and when you are a B2B sales professional, that kind of lacks the skill set that we touched on to really to present or get ideas across or critical points across in a virtual presentation.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh, things kind of like, you know, they don't really what get to a point or an outcome that we that we want.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: Um very quickly, the virtual selling thing.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, how has that changed what you know about pitching?
36:51
SPEAKER_01: I would say that not much has changed, frankly, other than the fact that you are on uh this virtual uh these virtual platforms a lot more, meaning that has changed.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes, certainly you have to sell through these virtual platforms a lot more.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: But what hasn't changed is this.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: If you were incredibly effective selling in person, it's likely you're also gonna be incredibly effective selling virtually.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: If you're not effective selling in person, you're not all of a sudden gonna remarkably just become incredibly effective selling virtually.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: So the the processes you use to make your case, uh to create connection, uh, to demonstrate value, et cetera, et cetera, those things stay consistent.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: It it's not like, okay, now we're in a virtual platform, so everything is different.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, the the the fundamentals are are still the same.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: And so if you were not working on your presentations, if you were, you know, winging everything you were doing offline, you can have the same experience online.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: We do know, however, that it's much more difficult to make a connection virtually.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: It's much more difficult difficult through the virtual platforms to read how somebody is responding and actually feels.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: And there are many, many studies that uh that were done prior to the pandemic and even more that have been done uh you know during this period of time.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: And you know, the the expression Zoom fatigue uh is real.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's not just Zoom, it's just all virtual communication is not uh uh is not the same thing as actual in-person human-to-human connection.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: It's just not.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: So what we've done is this we have uh doubled down on what we did prior to the pandemic that we found very effective.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: So one of the uh one of there's a speaker that we have worked with named Marcus Sheridan.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: We've worked with him on uh some of his speeches, and he's also uh came and taught uh our students at Hero Public Speaking a few times.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that uh that I learned from him is this concept that he calls an 80-20 video.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: 80-20 video.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: And it's based on the Pareto principle, this idea that about 80% of what a sales uh prospect or candidate uh needs to know they can get through a video or even through something that they read.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: About 20% is is actually uh important for the salesperson to address with the potential buyer.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: The problem is most sales conversations happen where the buyer knows very little, and then the person doing the sales talks to us, they've already watched these 80-20 videos, so they know 80% of what they need to know.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: And then when they actually get on the phone or on a video uh call, they're only focusing on that other 20%, which is the most impactful stuff.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: And so when I say we've doubled down on it, we've doubled down on it because we're trying to reduce the amount of interactive conversation that we have on Zoom because we find it often debilitating, slow, disconnected, disjointed.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: Then you've got technical problems and issues.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, I can't hear you.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Wait, so hold on, wait, what?
40:40
SPEAKER_01: What was and then you got to log out, log back in, and everybody's getting frustrated.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants to buy something, nobody gets excited about something when they're frustrated about technology.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: So we do a series of videos that people can watch and consume quickly and easily to get the majority of information that they need in order to make uh an informed decision.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: And then once they've got all that information, then they say, Listen, I've got three more questions I want to ask directly.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: Those are always the big impactful questions that move the needle and often uh seal up the sale.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's maybe strange to think that, well, we've got these virtual tools we can communicate with, you know, in in live time with people all over the world.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: We should use those more than pre-recorded video.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: But we've actually found more success using pre-recorded video.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: So the person can watch it at whatever speed they want to watch it.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: They can start it, stop it, come back to it.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh, they're not stuck in the conversation.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: And they're controlling their environment when they're getting the information that they want to get.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: So they're getting it in the way that they want to get it.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: But then when they've got some important questions, that's when they come to us.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: And it makes a really big difference.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I find a lot of people don't even have their videos on.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if that's uh do you find that in in the US as well?
42:01
SPEAKER_00: If you're on a video conference call, people are just bailing the video altogether.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes, sometimes we actually suggest it.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: In fact, uh, when teams are doing brainstorming work, uh, and often when we're doing uh brainstorming or ideation work, we'll turn off the video just so we have the audio.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: Because there have been some studies that uh that illustrate the fact that often people uh can pick up the verbal cues through the uh web technology much more quickly and more accurately than they can the visual cues because the lag on the visual cues is too great, but the lag on the audio is not as much of a problem for being able to uh determine or decipher how someone's feeling when they're talking.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: So turning off the video can actually be helpful for certain types of interaction or certain types of work.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: And it also allows the person on the other end uh to be um to have more autonomy over themselves.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, right now we're doing both an audio recording and a video recording.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: So for the video recording, that means I've got to look in the camera, which means I actually really can't see your face.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: So I can't respond to your face at all.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm only responding to what I hear.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: But I also have to focus entirely on this video camera, which is completely uh manufactured and strange.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: You, of course, can build skill at it and you can get better at doing it.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: But actually, in from a practical perspective, if I didn't have any video to concern myself with, I could walk around my office, uh, I could stand up, I could doodle, I could do all the things that allow help me actually focus on what you're asking me and how I'm processing rather than having to organize myself uh for the camera as if I was.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: An anchor on a morning TV program.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: So people are not used to that kind of interaction.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: And as a result, that plus the lag in the video technology creates often a lot of disconnect.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: And so it might not help you as much as you think.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes moving away from the video can be a very effective in your brainstorming sessions or your sales pitches, et cetera.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: All right, cool.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: I mentioned that gentleman that was part of your uh training program, Heroic Public Speaking, and he sold a$50 million deal.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, and he claims that it's because of, well, your foundational uh five framework was instrumental in uh getting that deal uh closed.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: Um I wanted to uh maybe if you could spend just a couple minutes unpacking what is this foundational five framework exactly.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: So the foundational five uh are five elements that exist in great pitches, great speeches across the board.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: They're not always delivered in this same order, uh, and they can be introduced in many different ways, but the elements exist for the listener, for the for the audience or for the recipient.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: So, number one, a big idea.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: Every great speech or every great pitch is based on a big idea.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: Now, a big idea doesn't need to be different to make a difference, it doesn't always need to be unique or new to be novel, uh, but it needs to be important, relevant, and urgent for the people who you're speaking to.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: So, number one, a big idea.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: Number two, a promise.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: A promise is the is the total outcome.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: It's the thing that people think they're by.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: It may require a lot of resources.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: And so if there's any reason or uh any opportunity to say no, most people will likely say no.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: And so if they can say, well, you know what?
46:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like this is important, like I like the big idea, it seems really, and I would, I would like the promise of this, but I don't think you get me.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this might be fine for somebody else, but you don't understand me.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, then you're dead in the water.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: But if they say, oh my gosh, you just nailed me, you just described me to a T, you get me, then they may listen.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: So number one, a big idea, number two, a promise.
46:25
SPEAKER_01: Number three is being able to demonstrate the way the world looks to the people in the room or uh on the Zoom screen.
46:34
SPEAKER_01: Number four, being able to articulate, illustrate, and demonstrate the consequences of not adopting the big idea and not achieving the promise.
46:44
SPEAKER_01: These are often the pain points.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, finally, the fifth element are the rewards.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: These are all the benefits of achieving the promise.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: So if the promise is the result, the rewards are the benefit of that result or the benefits of that result from a financial perspective, from an emotional, from a physical, and maybe even from a spiritual perspective.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: But those five elements exist in great speeches.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: Every time you listen to a great speech or a great pitch, rather than analyzing the presenter, analyze the speech.
47:25
SPEAKER_01: Because the speech is the cake.
47:28
SPEAKER_01: The speech is not the icing on the cake.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: The speech is the cake.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: The speech, the pitch, those are the things that matter first and foremost.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: Most of us rely on the fact that we're impressive, we're credible, we know what we're talking about.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: But the people who are hearing the pitch uh don't really care that much because there are a lot of people who are impressive who know what you know and can probably do what you do.
47:53
SPEAKER_01: But for the listener, they need that pitch or that speech to be transformational for them, to make it very easy for them to say, yes, I'm gonna change the way I feel, I'm gonna change the way I think, and I'm gonna change what I do.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: I can consume this idea, and I want to go after the promise.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: You understand me.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't want those consequences and I want those rewards.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: So let's do this.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the power.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh Michael, um what would you say uh has been your greatest success to date?
48:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, I would say just from a really practical perspective, um, this new book that Andrew Davidson and I just wrote called The Referable Speaker, I think this is the book I am most proud of because every book I've done, and I've this is my ninth book, I went into the book knowing what I wanted to write about, meaning I had most of the answers before I wrote the book.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: But when we went into writing this book, we had a question that we wanted to answer, but we did not have the answer, and we didn't know if we could.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: And the question was what's the formula for creating a sustainable speaking business?
49:13
SPEAKER_01: Because nobody had ever done it.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: There was no such thing.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: And so it took us two years to re-engineer the formula, and we did it.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: And that for that, I'm really proud because it's one thing to write a book based on what you already know.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: It's another thing to write a book uh based on an investigation and uh and uh and a journey that uncovers a formula for something as important as how do you build a sustainable speaking career for the people that we serve.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: So I'm really very proud of that.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh and I'm also just proud that I keep getting up every day uh to do the hard work because it's really not always easy.
49:52
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's not even that fun.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, it's really, really worth it when you create something out of nothing.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: And that's what's exciting about being in the visionary space or being in the thought leadership space.
50:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I think the visionaries create the future.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: They articulate it in a way that gets people excited about it, and uh, and then they can move people toward that future.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: Whereas experts are important, they're very helpful, but all they do is report on the present.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: Here are the best practices.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: Here's here's how things are done today.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: But the visionary says, you know, I think that there's another approach.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: There's a new approach that we can take if we just change the way we see the world.
50:36
SPEAKER_01: And that's really exciting.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh Michael, let's uh wrap this up.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: Why do you why do you do what you do?
50:42
SPEAKER_00: Like what really gets you out of bed in the morning?
50:46
SPEAKER_01: I love two things, individualism and transformation.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: I love how weird and quirky people are.
50:54
SPEAKER_01: Like people are really strange, man.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: If I mean, if we're, you know, if you really dig into it, human beings are strange.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's incredibly interesting.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: So I'm fascinated by the individuality that exists in each person.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: And I love what I get to do because my job is to see that individuality, what makes somebody so unique, so special, and help them leverage that so that they can let that shine so that when they show up for audiences or when they're doing pitches, they're bringing their best self to that situation.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: And I love the transformation that somebody goes through when they start to unravel the layers of persona that they've wrapped themselves in over time for protection and start actually showing up just focused on producing results and not trying to get approval, and instead really, really caring about the outcome for the people that they serve.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: That's pretty cool.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: That is very cool.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: That's very cool.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: Way to end.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Michael Port, for your time.
52:04
SPEAKER_00: It's been a real privilege.
52:06
SPEAKER_00: Learned a lot from you.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh yeah, thank you so, so much for for making yourself available.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: I know you're a very, very busy man.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: It's my pleasure.
52:15
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for inviting me.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: Anytime.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, guys, for listening.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: Chao ciao.
52:19
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