Latest / Best of Business / Politics Central: Unpacking the Government's action plan for hydrogen energy

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Politics Central: Unpacking the Government's action plan for hydrogen energy · Best of Business

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2:19
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Speaker 1: Three Politics Central.
2:22
Speaker 2: So oh, by the way, just before we get into
2:23
Speaker 2: the politics and looking towards this hour and I'm just
2:27
Speaker 2: a moment, we're going to be having a chat with
2:28
Speaker 2: Simon Watts, the Ministry of Climate Change. It's an announcement
2:31
Speaker 2: around a hydrogen plan. We're going to dig into that
2:34
Speaker 2: a little bit and then after that flur Philiff at Simon,
2:38
Speaker 2: she's a solicitor at the Public Service Association. The whole
2:41
Speaker 2: working from home thing and the revision of the guidelines
2:46
Speaker 2: and looks like they're going to be taking some action
2:48
Speaker 2: because there are some public servants who well they're determined
2:51
Speaker 2: if they can to work from home as a probably
2:54
Speaker 2: as an entitlement rather than something that maybe you earn
2:57
Speaker 2: as you go. So yeah, that's what we'll be talking
3:01
Speaker 2: about on Politics Central. But also at about three thirty
3:05
Speaker 2: five is once we finished those two interviews, we're going
3:07
Speaker 2: to be doing some talk So that's your time to
3:10
Speaker 2: climb into it and have your say. And the question, well,
3:14
Speaker 2: we might have a chat about the hydrogen, but the
3:15
Speaker 2: big question for talkback, I think is going to be
3:17
Speaker 2: is working from home a basic right or is it
3:20
Speaker 2: a privilege? Not just for the public service, to be honest,
3:23
Speaker 2: But that's going to be the question. We're going to
3:25
Speaker 2: ask for talkback and we'll take your calls on eight
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Speaker 2: hundred eighty ten eighty. I just need to check, so
3:36
Speaker 2: in a second we're going to be having a chat
3:37
Speaker 2: with Simon Watt's I think I saw his number flash up.
3:40
Speaker 2: We've just seen a bit of a problem with them
3:41
Speaker 2: with checking in. But the the the Low Emission Hydrogen
3:48
Speaker 2: Plan has been released and it's it's basically to unlock
3:54
Speaker 2: private sector investment in hydrogen energy and support New Zealand's
3:58
Speaker 2: transition to a low emission's economy. And it's been announced
4:02
Speaker 2: by the Energy Minister, Simeon Brown and also Climate Change
4:04
Speaker 2: Minister Simon Watts. So we're just going to hopefully check
4:08
Speaker 2: through to Simon in just a minute, but yes, the
4:13
Speaker 2: just give me two seconds. Yes, So they've released that
4:15
Speaker 2: action plan and it's basically to make hydrogen energy more
4:18
Speaker 2: easily accessible in New Zealand. The priority areas include reducing
4:23
Speaker 2: barriers to consenting hydrogen projects and promoting a cost of
4:27
Speaker 2: effective and market led transition to a low emissions economy.
4:31
Speaker 2: And hydrogen it's what we've all heard about hydrogen. We're
4:33
Speaker 2: all excited about the idea that maybe cars will run
4:35
Speaker 2: on it, but it's known to be more environmentally friendly
4:38
Speaker 2: alternative to the use of coal and fossil fuels empowering
4:41
Speaker 2: heavy transport. And Simon Watts, he's the Minister of Climate
4:44
Speaker 2: Change and he's with me now. Simon.
4:47
Speaker 4: Good afternoon, very good afternoon.
4:49
Speaker 2: How are you good things? Hey? I was reading through
4:52
Speaker 2: the press release around the high around the hydrogen plan,
4:56
Speaker 2: and in a way it sort of comes across this
4:59
Speaker 2: quite high level talking about the potential of hydrogen for
5:02
Speaker 2: the for the most people who are listening. Where does
5:05
Speaker 2: the rubber hit the road on this, Where are the
5:06
Speaker 2: tangible effects of this plan and are going to be
5:09
Speaker 2: first seen?
5:11
Speaker 1: Well?
5:11
Speaker 4: Look, hydrogen is one of the most abundant occurring elements
5:15
Speaker 4: that can be used to fuel transportation, both heavy transport
5:20
Speaker 4: and vehicles. Lots of countries around the world are embarking
5:23
Speaker 4: on producing key element that you need is renewable energy.
5:27
Speaker 4: We've got a lot of that and we want to
5:28
Speaker 4: unlock the ability for the private sector to invest to
5:31
Speaker 4: produce hydrogen.
5:32
Speaker 2: Here in New Zealand, there's been some discussion on us
5:37
Speaker 2: for a few years. I think the previous government we're
5:39
Speaker 2: looking at some sort of hydrogen plan. Are we a
5:40
Speaker 2: bit late to the game in New Zealand to hydrogen?
5:44
Speaker 4: Well, look, you know, Singapore is a good example. They're
5:46
Speaker 4: currently retooling their port and one of the biggest ports
5:49
Speaker 4: in the world, to be able to fill ships with ammonia,
5:53
Speaker 4: which has taken and produced from hydrogen. So I think, look,
5:56
Speaker 4: New Zealand's got it, but the reality is it's a
5:59
Speaker 4: competitive market and we need to increase the amount of
6:02
Speaker 4: pace that we're moving at. We're working with the private
6:05
Speaker 4: sector here in New Zealand. All the big players that
6:07
Speaker 4: are involved, Kiondi, all of those companies are already involved
6:12
Speaker 4: in hydrogen production overseas, want to start looking at that
6:15
Speaker 4: in New Zealand, and we're looking to how we unlock
6:18
Speaker 4: the environment, make it easier to produce it here in
6:21
Speaker 4: New Zealand and remove some of those roadblocks.
6:24
Speaker 2: What is the potential for this once we really get
6:27
Speaker 2: underway and what sort of time frame do you expect
6:31
Speaker 2: us to see tangible benefits for industry and our emissions
6:34
Speaker 2: and all that.
6:35
Speaker 3: Yeah.
6:35
Speaker 4: Well, look, we've committed in our action plan that we
6:37
Speaker 4: want to put through changes in legislation to free up
6:42
Speaker 4: the regulatory barriers next year in twenty twenty five. We
6:45
Speaker 4: want to move with pace too. As I said, you know,
6:48
Speaker 4: unblock those barriers that are slowing private investment down. We're
6:53
Speaker 4: working with them. They've told us what are the areas
6:55
Speaker 4: that are that they need our help on, and that's
6:58
Speaker 4: what we're doing.
6:59
Speaker 2: In the business what do they need to help on specifically.
7:01
Speaker 4: Well, they want us to reduce the barriers for consenting
7:05
Speaker 4: of new projects. They also want us to make sure
7:08
Speaker 4: that we've got a regulatory environment, so safety considerations, all
7:12
Speaker 4: of that stuff when you're introducing new films, making sure
7:15
Speaker 4: that we've got those in place, and ideally harmonizing, making
7:18
Speaker 4: sure that our regulatory environment in New Zealanders is similar
7:21
Speaker 4: to those overseas Australia, you know, US and UK. At
7:25
Speaker 4: the moment, you know, we haven't got that environment in place,
7:28
Speaker 4: and therefore, you know, doing business in New Zealanders is
7:31
Speaker 4: a bit harder than what it needs to be.
7:32
Speaker 2: Is this any of this controversial because just from my
7:36
Speaker 2: reading of it, it seems like something we should be doing.
7:38
Speaker 2: Maybe we should have been doing it earlier. But is
7:40
Speaker 2: there any pushback from any particular industry or from the
7:44
Speaker 2: political side of things.
7:46
Speaker 4: No, quite the opposite. You know, when we sat down
7:49
Speaker 4: with industry and said, look, what can we do to
7:51
Speaker 4: help work with you to make this cheaper to produce
7:55
Speaker 4: and easier to produce, they just said, look, we just
7:58
Speaker 4: want to we want to work together in a partnership
7:59
Speaker 4: and here's the things that we need help on from government.
8:02
Speaker 4: We don't need money, we need you know, improvements in
8:05
Speaker 4: the regulatory environment and your consenting in there. The other
8:09
Speaker 4: big thing that we're seeing overseas and and Ausia is particularly,
8:13
Speaker 4: is that you know, we've got an abundant source of
8:15
Speaker 4: renewable energy capability here in New Zealand. If you fast
8:18
Speaker 4: forward ten years from now, you know we're already producing
8:21
Speaker 4: hydrogen today, but we could produce more hydrogen than what
8:24
Speaker 4: we actually domestically need, and you know that provides us
8:27
Speaker 4: options in terms of the energy market scenario. This is
8:29
Speaker 4: quite an exciting area and again there's a lot of
8:32
Speaker 4: new stuff coming through. We're not, as I said, into
8:34
Speaker 4: picking winners, but we are into making sure that we
8:36
Speaker 4: reduce the barriers for private investment.
8:38
Speaker 2: What are the industries that are going to most benefit
8:41
Speaker 2: from this.
8:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, heavy transports one that's already in play in New Zealand.
8:46
Speaker 4: We've already got hydrogen hybrid trucks operating in New Zealand.
8:51
Speaker 4: We're actually producing more hydrogen than what we can use
8:54
Speaker 4: at the moment, and so there's a big program of
8:56
Speaker 4: trying to look to do that. You've got some big
8:58
Speaker 4: truck players, particularly in the South Island that are embarking
9:01
Speaker 4: on that. And actually, you know, Toyota's got a couple
9:04
Speaker 4: of vehicles I think already in the market. The Mirror,
9:08
Speaker 4: that's a passenger vehicle, takes about six kilos of hydrogen
9:13
Speaker 4: that goes about six hundred and fifty k's and it
9:16
Speaker 4: costs you around just over eighty bucks to fill a
9:19
Speaker 4: tank cup. Obviously we haven't got the filling stations all
9:21
Speaker 4: across at the moment, but it's just an example of
9:24
Speaker 4: where this can work in that sector as well. And
9:27
Speaker 4: of course it's a clean, clean energy. The emissions profile
9:31
Speaker 4: is very very low in comparison to fossil fuel.
9:35
Speaker 2: Actually, there was something I read about we talk about
9:38
Speaker 2: green hydrogen. So because the hydrogen is produced from renewable resources,
9:43
Speaker 2: and then there's blue and turquoise. What what the hell are.
9:46
Speaker 4: They there's actually six different colors, and you know, Sunday afternoon,
9:53
Speaker 4: I don't think they want to get too caught up
9:55
Speaker 4: in it, but that you're right, green is made out
9:58
Speaker 4: of renewable electricity. You get blue, which is made sometimes
10:04
Speaker 4: there's an off take from the production of carbon dioxide,
10:08
Speaker 4: you know, in terms of some of the mining or
10:10
Speaker 4: fertilizer factories, and there's a whole lot of other colors
10:13
Speaker 4: depending on how it's extracted, including that that's naturally occurring
10:16
Speaker 4: I you extract it from the ground. Yeah, of course
10:19
Speaker 4: that's white. Surprisingly Okay.
10:23
Speaker 2: So actually, in terms of the advice, hydrogen has always
10:26
Speaker 2: seemed like it's sort of sound like one of these
10:28
Speaker 2: things in the future that's going to be really promising,
10:30
Speaker 2: even for private transport. What's the advice you're getting about
10:33
Speaker 2: how as you say you talk about Toyota, what is
10:37
Speaker 2: the advice because you would be getting the latest and
10:39
Speaker 2: greatest information around. I guess what the transport industry can
10:43
Speaker 2: do when it comes to private motor vehicles. What's you know,
10:45
Speaker 2: where's that going to sit with evs? Do you think
10:47
Speaker 2: hydrogen Do you think it's going to be the dominant
10:49
Speaker 2: player in the end?
10:50
Speaker 4: Well, look, I just think it comes in as another option.
10:52
Speaker 4: It's particularly useful in heavy transport, specialty vehicles and also shipping.
10:57
Speaker 4: So you think about how we're going to power the
11:00
Speaker 4: big cargo ships that go from Singapore to New Zealand
11:04
Speaker 4: in the future, they're going to be running on ammonia
11:07
Speaker 4: or which is produced via the hydrogen process. Also some
11:11
Speaker 4: of the big mines already Forteskew in the in the
11:13
Speaker 4: Australia are already using the big diggers and loaders are
11:17
Speaker 4: already hydrogen powered. And actually a lot of that tech's
11:20
Speaker 4: actually coming from New Zealand tech businesses based in christ Church.
11:24
Speaker 4: Actually they are producing the stuff that is allowing those
11:27
Speaker 4: big companies to take up hydrogen. So industry are also
11:32
Speaker 4: using it in terms of processed heat as well, and
11:37
Speaker 4: power industry as well. You can use it for backup
11:39
Speaker 4: generation as well, and of course export and export's the
11:43
Speaker 4: one you've got career. Japan, they've got an energy shortage
11:48
Speaker 4: and they're already doing contracts with country around purchase of
11:52
Speaker 4: hydrogen and you can think a decade from now, you know,
11:55
Speaker 4: that's that's pretty exciting option in the mix for the
11:58
Speaker 4: New Zealand economy and it creates a whole lot of
12:00
Speaker 4: new jobs and jobs.
12:02
Speaker 2: Just to be a little bit mischievous, it's not something
12:04
Speaker 2: that Winston's looking for the fairies. It's not going to
12:07
Speaker 2: surprise us with the announcement of green fairies or something.
12:12
Speaker 4: I wouldn't want to speculate on that, but I'm pretty
12:15
Speaker 4: sure that I'm pretty sure that that's not the case.
12:19
Speaker 2: No, okay, okay, I don't want to get my home.
12:21
Speaker 4: Sorry about that.
12:22
Speaker 2: Just last one, the safety aspect. How careful do we
12:25
Speaker 2: are we going to have to be in terms of
12:26
Speaker 2: the regulations and balancing safety, because when hydrogen goes wrong,
12:30
Speaker 2: it goes very wrong, doesn't it.
12:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, Look, we've got to go through and that's you know,
12:34
Speaker 4: that's a regulatory environment that we wouldn't put in place.
12:36
Speaker 4: As I say, we're not first movers. Countries like Australia
12:39
Speaker 4: have already got the regulatory environment in place. Our role
12:42
Speaker 4: is to make sure that we've got in an environment
12:45
Speaker 4: that's safe, that's practical, and actually get that in place
12:48
Speaker 4: as fasts possible. One of the gaps is that we
12:50
Speaker 4: haven't got some of that realtory environment in poss in
12:52
Speaker 4: place right now, which is holding back investment. So we're
12:56
Speaker 4: going to we're going to replicate what's world class and
12:58
Speaker 4: best practice and get.
13:00
Speaker 3: On with it.
13:00
Speaker 2: I did say last question, but I thin, so how
13:03
Speaker 2: long is it going to take to get this regulatory
13:05
Speaker 2: framework in place so we can really start making a
13:07
Speaker 2: difference with what we need to do with hydrogen.
13:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, action plan that we put out we're targeting pretty
13:13
Speaker 4: much Q three twenty five or take in terms of that.
13:15
Speaker 4: We want to have some early views of that pretty
13:19
Speaker 4: much in the first or second quarter. We're working closely
13:22
Speaker 4: with industry around that, and I think it's just a
13:25
Speaker 4: good example of government working with industry, playing to our
13:28
Speaker 4: strengths and also unblocking the pipe for them so that
13:31
Speaker 4: they can get on and produce this at a lower cost,
13:34
Speaker 4: because that's the other thing. You know, you want to
13:35
Speaker 4: be able to produce this this hydrogen at a cost
13:39
Speaker 4: price that makes it economically feasible. And if we can
13:42
Speaker 4: remove some of the red tape and green tape, then
13:44
Speaker 4: you know that's going to help.
13:45
Speaker 2: Actually, because I was just thinking you probably have. You'd
13:48
Speaker 2: be getting a bit of support from Chloe Swarbrock and
13:50
Speaker 2: the Greens on us too, wouldn't you.
13:52
Speaker 4: Well, look, I think you know across the aisle politically,
13:57
Speaker 4: you know, other parties have looked at this in the past.
13:59
Speaker 4: I guess the key difference is we're getting on and
14:01
Speaker 4: doing the doing right and you know, this is an
14:03
Speaker 4: example of just another area where we're cracking on and
14:07
Speaker 4: making it happen. And I think it's positive for our economy.
14:09
Speaker 4: But also positive for our climate.
14:11
Speaker 2: Good stuff, all good luck and enjoy your Christmas break. Simon,
14:13
Speaker 2: thanks very much for your.
14:14
Speaker 4: Time, No worries thanks to him.
14:16
Speaker 2: There we go. That's Simon. What's he's a Minister of
14:17
Speaker 2: climate change. Look, you know, as I say, all this
14:21
Speaker 2: stuff's going to happen in the future. But I love
14:24
Speaker 2: the idea for hydrogen and the potential for it. I
14:26
Speaker 2: think often we get distracted by what it can do
14:28
Speaker 2: for our private vehicles and whether that's going to be
14:30
Speaker 2: the future instead of evs and all that. But when
14:32
Speaker 2: you hear about the trucks and the heavy sort of
14:35
Speaker 2: industry uses of hydrogen, maybe it is quite an exciting announcement.
14:38
Speaker 2: So yeah, gets stuck country. You can't text your feedback
14:40
Speaker 2: anytime on this. By the way, we'll be back in
14:43
Speaker 2: just a moment. The PSA they're going to be having
14:45
Speaker 2: a crack at the government because the government's new guidelines
14:48
Speaker 2: are having a look at the working from home rights,
14:51
Speaker 2: entitlements whatever. So flurfits Simons. She's a solicitor for the PSA.
14:55
Speaker 2: She's going to be joining us in just a moment.
14:57
Speaker 2: It's twenty one past three News talk z B. Yes,
14:59
Speaker 2: welcome back. To the show. Actually, I was trying to
15:02
Speaker 2: think of when hydrogen goes badly wrong, and somebody texted
15:05
Speaker 2: me saying it goes back to the Hindenburg. I think
15:09
Speaker 2: that was hydrogen. Basically, Yes, that obviously was an example
15:13
Speaker 2: of I think hydrogen going very badly wrong. But there
15:15
Speaker 2: we go. Anyway, Look, the government has issued new guidance
15:19
Speaker 2: for public servants wanting to work from home. Public Service
15:22
Speaker 2: Commissioner Sir Brian Roche says the new guidance makes it
15:25
Speaker 2: clear that working from home is not an entitlement and
15:29
Speaker 2: that it will help support a high performance culture. The
15:32
Speaker 2: guidance does not mean public servants can't work from home,
15:35
Speaker 2: but the PSA says it's a far far cry from
15:38
Speaker 2: the gender paygap principles restricting mum's abilities to work flexibil
15:42
Speaker 2: around children and simons, she's a solicitor from the PSA
15:47
Speaker 2: and she's with me now, good afternoon, Good afternoon. So
15:50
Speaker 2: what's the basis of your case against what the government
15:54
Speaker 2: want to do with their guidance.
15:56
Speaker 5: Well, really, what happened does many years ago is the
15:59
Speaker 5: PSA in the government in the accounts of Trade Unions
16:02
Speaker 5: actually agreed to an approach to ending gender base inequalities
16:10
Speaker 5: in the public sector. So there are a whole lot
16:12
Speaker 5: of principles agreed to, and one of them was that
16:16
Speaker 5: agencies normalize flexible and part time working arrangements. So we
16:20
Speaker 5: thought we had that agreed, we thought it was sorted,
16:23
Speaker 5: and actually what we've seen is the gender pay gap
16:25
Speaker 5: come down and more women and senior positions, so we
16:28
Speaker 5: thought we were on the right track. So really it
16:31
Speaker 5: came out of the blue for the government to attempt
16:33
Speaker 5: to revoke those principles and not try and carry on
16:37
Speaker 5: on this process that we'd already agreed with them. So
16:40
Speaker 5: really the basis of our claim is we have an
16:43
Speaker 5: existing agreement agencies must normalize flexible work, including working from home,
16:48
Speaker 5: and now they're breaching that.
16:50
Speaker 2: So when it talks about I keep here seeing the
16:53
Speaker 2: word guidance and guidelines, which reminds me of parts of
16:57
Speaker 2: the Caribbean. They're more like guidelines is if they're not
16:59
Speaker 2: really that locked in stone. I mean, how how how
17:03
Speaker 2: binding is guidance?
17:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a really important question because this does in
17:10
Speaker 5: affect the whole host of arrangements that people have in
17:13
Speaker 5: place and have agreed between their employer and the worker. Now,
17:17
Speaker 5: and in some cases those are reflected in their actual
17:20
Speaker 5: written employment agreement. But what it does change is the
17:24
Speaker 5: nature of the availability of flexible work or working from home.
17:28
Speaker 5: The previous approach was that it needed to be normalized.
17:32
Speaker 5: Their guidance at that time talks about it. If not,
17:36
Speaker 5: why not? So if you can't do it, let's look
17:39
Speaker 5: into that. And it also says that leaders will be
17:41
Speaker 5: champions of working from home and not. We know the
17:44
Speaker 5: reasons for that, that the benefits are really strong for
17:48
Speaker 5: the workers, but also our surveys have shown that they're
17:52
Speaker 5: really good for employers as well. People are able to
17:54
Speaker 5: concentrate more, they get more work done, and they say
17:58
Speaker 5: it improves the workplace culture too.
18:00
Speaker 2: I did have a look at the survey that was
18:02
Speaker 2: from public service people responding to how much they enjoyed
18:05
Speaker 2: working from home and the benefits. But it's hardly subjective,
18:08
Speaker 2: isn't it. If you like working from home, you're going
18:11
Speaker 2: to say how wonderful it is. So how much can
18:12
Speaker 2: we really rely on that survey apart from it being
18:15
Speaker 2: something that people like to have because it's easier for them.
18:19
Speaker 5: Well, I think the fact is employers weren't looking too
18:22
Speaker 5: working from home arrangements. They know that it benefits both
18:25
Speaker 5: workers and the employer. It was really only because the
18:29
Speaker 5: government decided to adopt what I think is quite a
18:31
Speaker 5: performative act in releasing new guidelines and really continuing its
18:38
Speaker 5: painting of public servants as somehow inferior or taking from
18:43
Speaker 5: the taxpayer instead of loyal people who are committed to
18:47
Speaker 5: working hard in the interests of us all every day.
18:49
Speaker 5: It was really sort of the politics of the government
18:52
Speaker 5: beating up on public servants, I think, more than what
18:55
Speaker 5: it meant for employers.
18:56
Speaker 2: So Nichola Willis has said that there is still the
18:58
Speaker 2: ability to work from home where it doesn't compromise performance.
19:03
Speaker 2: So where's the problem in a way, so if you
19:06
Speaker 2: can prove it your performance doesn't compromise, aren't you well.
19:10
Speaker 5: I think that's a massive shift from normalizing it and
19:14
Speaker 5: making sure that people can access it to a very
19:17
Speaker 5: restrictive idea that it only can work in limited circumstances.
19:21
Speaker 5: So it's really the tone and approach and what that
19:24
Speaker 5: means for how agencies then try to enact this guidance.
19:28
Speaker 5: So what we're worried about is that there might be
19:31
Speaker 5: a whole bunch of people that have existing and forcible
19:33
Speaker 5: arrangements to work from home, but new people coming through,
19:36
Speaker 5: particularly women, particularly people with disabilities or chronic health conditions,
19:40
Speaker 5: won't be able to access them in the different environment.
19:43
Speaker 5: And look, what we know as well is that many
19:46
Speaker 5: parents who have children who are sort of unwow but
19:51
Speaker 5: don't need constant supervision, or working people themselves who are
19:55
Speaker 5: sort of contagious but can do a bit of work
19:57
Speaker 5: or work from home. And what we're already hearing is
20:01
Speaker 5: that they're setting guessing themselves and their employers and thinking, well,
20:04
Speaker 5: I can't do this because of the new environment. Therefore
20:06
Speaker 5: I just take suickly.
20:07
Speaker 2: I mean, how much this can we trust that can
20:09
Speaker 2: be worked out between managers? And I mean the managers
20:12
Speaker 2: might be the ones one to work from home, of course,
20:14
Speaker 2: but you know, the people in charge of each area
20:17
Speaker 2: of the public service, where you know, you prove that
20:19
Speaker 2: you're reliable, you're doing good work, and your boss can say, right, look,
20:23
Speaker 2: I don't mind you working from home two or three
20:25
Speaker 2: days a week. I mean, can we not rely on
20:27
Speaker 2: just sort of common sort of reasonable reasonableness and this
20:32
Speaker 2: with the relationships between workers and their own managers?
20:37
Speaker 5: Yeah, I really hope. So and we do know that
20:39
Speaker 5: a number of people have existing woking from home arrangements
20:42
Speaker 5: that are contractually agreed. They're binding, and they will carry on.
20:46
Speaker 5: But what we're really worried about is the culture and
20:50
Speaker 5: change for new people or for people in situations where
20:54
Speaker 5: they had sort of arrangements but they weren't formalized into
20:58
Speaker 5: a binding agreement. So we're really worried about the shift
21:01
Speaker 5: I guess and tone and approach. And what we do
21:04
Speaker 5: know is that public agencies take their responsibilities to comply
21:08
Speaker 5: with guidance quite seriously. So we're also seeing already a
21:11
Speaker 5: bit of overreach. So they're going a step further than
21:14
Speaker 5: they sort of need to, and that's undermining it. And look,
21:17
Speaker 5: it's not just public sector employers. Since we filed this litigation,
21:21
Speaker 5: I've had an outpouring of response from people that work
21:25
Speaker 5: in the private sector as well, and they're thing, please
21:28
Speaker 5: continue with this case, please argue it because it's really
21:31
Speaker 5: important for us. And actually some of those people are
21:34
Speaker 5: from employers as well, so it's not just an issue
21:36
Speaker 5: for workers.
21:38
Speaker 2: Okay, it's putting aside the public side of things. Of course,
21:42
Speaker 2: there are thousands of public servants who literally cannot work
21:47
Speaker 2: from home because they are public facing. I think of
21:49
Speaker 2: a rung of Tamarikian wins and a whole lot of
21:51
Speaker 2: areas in the public service. So isn't this case if
21:54
Speaker 2: I'm going to play Devil's advocate, isn't this just about
21:57
Speaker 2: protecting a bit of a privileged for a privileged class
22:01
Speaker 2: of public servants who aren't required to be front facing
22:04
Speaker 2: to interface with the public.
22:07
Speaker 5: Well, no, wonder eyes that there are some roles that
22:12
Speaker 5: working from home just cannot work for. If you look
22:15
Speaker 5: at corrections officers, they just can't work from home. It's
22:17
Speaker 5: not possible. Similarly with auto antibody social workers, although to
22:22
Speaker 5: a degree, aspects of that are possible. But it's really
22:26
Speaker 5: about where it is possible, where it is appropriate, creating
22:30
Speaker 5: that climate that it's normalized and that it's enabled.
22:34
Speaker 2: Also, the other thing, I know, you've made it a
22:36
Speaker 2: sort of gender pay gap issue. I have seen a
22:38
Speaker 2: comment that it's just you're in danger of reinforcing those
22:44
Speaker 2: traditional gender roles when you're talking about women, when in
22:47
Speaker 2: fact we're trying to sort of get away from that,
22:49
Speaker 2: aren't we isn't it sort of a is it a
22:51
Speaker 2: bit of a catch? Twenty two that you're saying, you're generalizing, saying, well,
22:55
Speaker 2: of course the impacts on mums forgetting that dads might
22:58
Speaker 2: do it as well. And I'm not trying to be
23:00
Speaker 2: too clever here, but you know, there would be an
23:03
Speaker 2: argument can be mounted quite passionately about, you know, the
23:06
Speaker 2: reinforcing of these traditional gender roles.
23:09
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, you're right, and I think that argument actually
23:11
Speaker 5: came from Nikola Willis herself, oh, who challenged me to
23:15
Speaker 5: expect better for our daughters. But what I would say
23:18
Speaker 5: is we're dealing with this situation as it is now,
23:21
Speaker 5: and the situation as it is now is that women
23:23
Speaker 5: take on a disproportionate amount of parenting and caring responsibilities.
23:28
Speaker 5: But look, if we're successful, ultimately this will impact on
23:32
Speaker 5: men who do that as well. So it will be
23:34
Speaker 5: a good thing for women, but it will be a
23:35
Speaker 5: good thing for men who take on caring responsibilities, whether
23:39
Speaker 5: that's children, elderly parents, or other people.
23:43
Speaker 2: What are we talking about. We're talking about fighting for
23:45
Speaker 2: the right to work from home all the time. Are
23:46
Speaker 2: we just talking about the ability to work from home
23:50
Speaker 2: as a mix of your workplace sort of attendance.
23:55
Speaker 5: What we're really talking about is that normalizing it and
23:58
Speaker 5: agencies becoming champions of it. We're not advocating for roles
24:03
Speaker 5: to be working from home all the time. There are
24:06
Speaker 5: real benefits in being in the workforce, in the workplace,
24:09
Speaker 5: interacting with colleagues, learning from colleagues. But really this is
24:13
Speaker 5: about saying, where it can happen, let's try and enable
24:16
Speaker 5: it to happen and just make people's lives a little
24:18
Speaker 5: bit easier. And the reality is that actually a whole
24:22
Speaker 5: bunch of these public service agencies have downsized their offices
24:26
Speaker 5: on the basis that a chunk of their workforce work
24:28
Speaker 5: from home, so it's not even very practical for them
24:31
Speaker 5: to change their approach anyway.
24:33
Speaker 2: What's the timeline for the legal action do you think
24:35
Speaker 2: to get this resolved?
24:37
Speaker 5: So the other side, so to Carl Mattahal, the Public
24:40
Speaker 5: Service Commission have fourteen days from the day we filed
24:43
Speaker 5: it to put their response. We think it's then likely
24:47
Speaker 5: will be referred to mediation and if that doesn't resolve
24:51
Speaker 5: the matter, then we will go to a hearing before
24:54
Speaker 5: the Employment Relations Authority sometime next year.
24:57
Speaker 2: Okay, Hey Feller, thanks very much for your time. I
24:59
Speaker 2: really appreciate it, and I hope you have a little
25:02
Speaker 2: bit of time off over Christmas despite all this legal stuff.
25:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely good one.
25:07
Speaker 2: Thanks. That's Fliffitt Simons. She's solicitor for the PSA. We'd
25:11
Speaker 2: like your feedback on this because my big question is
25:13
Speaker 2: what did the public feel about this? Should public servants
25:17
Speaker 2: be allowed to work from home? Is it a basic
25:19
Speaker 2: right or a privilege? And it does extend to the
25:22
Speaker 2: private sector as well. Of course, a feed on Musk
25:26
Speaker 2: was here and running the public sector, everyone would be
25:27
Speaker 2: in at the office, wouldn't he Because and there is
25:29
Speaker 2: a bit of a move in terms of the public
25:31
Speaker 2: will for people to get back to work. I'll be honest,
25:35
Speaker 2: I'm sort of a little bit this is I did
25:37
Speaker 2: ask a question as to whether this was an argument
25:41
Speaker 2: around a privileged class of public servants who don't have
25:45
Speaker 2: to public interface in the same way that plenty of
25:47
Speaker 2: other people do. I can hear all the private sector
25:49
Speaker 2: people and also those who have to interface with the
25:52
Speaker 2: public who don't have that choice, thinking, Oh, it's nice
25:54
Speaker 2: for you, isn't it. So is it really a gender issue?
25:57
Speaker 2: Do you support it? Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
25:59
Speaker 2: text nine two nine two and you can email to
26:02
Speaker 2: I don't worry about the email. We're doing calls and
26:04
Speaker 2: text right now, so we'll be back in just a moment.
26:06
Speaker 2: Do you support this action by the public service defending
26:10
Speaker 2: the right to work from home? What do you think?
26:12
Speaker 2: Get back into the office, do the job. Back in
26:15
Speaker 2: a moment. It's twenty five minutes to four news talks.
26:17
Speaker 6: He'd bragin ram Christmas tree at Christmas party, little to
26:27
Speaker 6: where you can see, and that's the start.
26:33
Speaker 2: Let's welcome back to the weekend collective. Yeah, we like
26:36
Speaker 2: to keep you know, just keep the couples that are
26:38
Speaker 2: warmer during my mind, you're not gonna need any warman
26:40
Speaker 2: in this weather in Auckland. It's a stinking hot. It's
26:42
Speaker 2: like in the middle of January. Anyway. Taking your feedback
26:45
Speaker 2: on the working from home thing, there's lots of texts.
26:47
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get into some of the corresponds. Actually I
26:50
Speaker 2: will just address quickly. Somebody's there's been a few text
26:53
Speaker 2: he set us at for flirfit. Someone's who was Labor
26:56
Speaker 2: Canada or MP and therefore that's a reason to discredit her.
27:00
Speaker 2: And actually, no, no, I think we've got to deal with
27:02
Speaker 2: the arguments on this. Here's my take on it, and
27:05
Speaker 2: you know there's two there's the gut reaction you have
27:08
Speaker 2: to that, and I guess my gut reaction to the
27:10
Speaker 2: working from home is that it's sort of a bit
27:13
Speaker 2: of a luxury for those who can work from home,
27:15
Speaker 2: and so I have personally don't really have much sympathy
27:18
Speaker 2: if you have to get back into the office, because
27:20
Speaker 2: there are so many people who are required by virtue
27:23
Speaker 2: of their job descriptions that they need to be in
27:25
Speaker 2: the office. Whether you work in I mean people who
27:28
Speaker 2: work in the public health service, people who work in
27:30
Speaker 2: the hospitals, people of firemen, policemen or anga tamariki workers, wins,
27:34
Speaker 2: there's so many occupations, builders, plumbers, anyone who has to Yeah,
27:41
Speaker 2: it's sort of if you have the luxury of sitting
27:44
Speaker 2: on your bottom for work, then great, but it is
27:47
Speaker 2: difficult to get the From my point of view, I
27:50
Speaker 2: sort of I struggle to have sympathy, although if I
27:54
Speaker 2: was in that situation, I could argue why I should
27:57
Speaker 2: be able to work from home because I can do
27:58
Speaker 2: it efficiently and all that sort of thing. But you
28:00
Speaker 2: should treat those surveys with a grain of salt, because
28:03
Speaker 2: when the public service sector surveys its own members saying
28:06
Speaker 2: how do you find working at home? Are you official?
28:08
Speaker 2: And of course they're going to go, oh, I'm amazing
28:10
Speaker 2: when I work from home, it's so convenient. I'm really productive.
28:13
Speaker 2: I don't have any eruptions. But yeah, here's a few texts.
28:18
Speaker 2: And then we've got a caller who wants to have
28:19
Speaker 2: a chat about the hydrogen side of things. Somebody says, yes,
28:23
Speaker 2: but by the business first. Otherwise, do as your boss
28:25
Speaker 2: tells you or resign. Yep, work from home means actually
28:30
Speaker 2: work from home, not be at home. Some employers, employers
28:33
Speaker 2: I know, hate it as they know they're being had on.
28:35
Speaker 2: Great and theoryach Year's Dave. I think the thing is
28:38
Speaker 2: if you're a good manager and you can and you
28:40
Speaker 2: can outline expectations and what you what you want your
28:45
Speaker 2: team to be doing, then technically it shouldn't really be
28:47
Speaker 2: an issue for you. If you no good at managing
28:51
Speaker 2: expectations and performance outcomes, then probably you won't like working
28:55
Speaker 2: from home because you like to keep tabs on people
28:57
Speaker 2: when they're in the office. Another person tim get back
28:59
Speaker 2: in the office. If you don't want to go, find
29:00
Speaker 2: another If you don't want to go find another woke employee,
29:05
Speaker 2: preferably not paid by the tax payer. The one do
29:08
Speaker 2: not support us an absolute privilege to work from home.
29:10
Speaker 2: Public servants forget how their salaries are funded. They don't
29:14
Speaker 2: like the work expectations. Patrio looks out, look elsewhere. I
29:17
Speaker 2: think this ties into what flurit. Simon says, it's a
29:19
Speaker 2: bit of a performative act by Nichola Willis painting public
29:23
Speaker 2: service servants in a sort of negative light. Mark says
29:28
Speaker 2: spot On comment, this is elitism and snobby nonsense. Get
29:32
Speaker 2: to the office, Tim simple, you work where your employer
29:35
Speaker 2: says you work. Don't like it, resigns his herman m
29:40
Speaker 2: And there's a few there's a few selections of feedback.
29:44
Speaker 2: I've got truckloads of texts, but we've got room to
29:46
Speaker 2: take some calls if you like. On eight hundred and
29:48
Speaker 2: eighty ten to eighty Richard, Hello, how.
29:50
Speaker 3: Are you going?
29:51
Speaker 2: I'm all right? How are you?
29:52
Speaker 3: I'm finding choice of music FIRS stuff was interesting.
29:55
Speaker 2: Uh what the pogues? Well, it was a bit slow
29:58
Speaker 2: getting into it. We should have wound forward and got
30:00
Speaker 2: into the chorus.
30:00
Speaker 3: Shouldn't we Yeah, we see his band on British radio okay, well,
30:04
Speaker 3: but but they can play records. No, actually, cardibs a better.
30:08
Speaker 3: But anyway, I found I found about, I found about
30:12
Speaker 3: I found about hydrogen. What sort of hydrogen we're going
30:15
Speaker 3: to produce? And how are we going to produce it?
30:17
Speaker 3: Two questions I have.
30:18
Speaker 2: Well, you're you're not talking to an expert on this,
30:20
Speaker 2: but it's going to be. It's going to be I guess,
30:23
Speaker 2: powered by renewable energy. So yeah, that's that's as much
30:28
Speaker 2: as I can tell you.
30:29
Speaker 3: At present. We're making green hydrogen for Japan out of
30:32
Speaker 3: geothermal stations in the North Island, and to make up
30:36
Speaker 3: for the short form on our own electricity, we're importing
30:41
Speaker 3: very polluting Indonesian cold mined by slave labor.
30:44
Speaker 7: I don't yeah, I don't actually know how that works.
30:46
Speaker 7: It does It does sound like if we are making hydrogen.
30:52
Speaker 7: Maybe it's because as hydrogen, once you've made it, does
30:55
Speaker 7: it produce?
30:56
Speaker 2: Can you get more energy out of it?
30:57
Speaker 3: I don't produce it. To produce one kill a lot
31:00
Speaker 3: of hydrogen, you need three kill lots of energy. It's
31:03
Speaker 3: a very inefficient means of saving and power. And yes,
31:07
Speaker 3: it is the most abundant fuel on the planet. But
31:11
Speaker 3: you can't find it. There's very good places you can
31:14
Speaker 3: find it normally, and you've actually got to draw on
31:16
Speaker 3: the ground and remove it as as fossil fuel.
31:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't answer you a question on that. But
31:22
Speaker 2: now the question that we are using green field to
31:25
Speaker 2: ship hydrogen elsewhere and yet we end up premium. I
31:29
Speaker 2: don't quite understand that myself either might.
31:34
Speaker 3: But okay, the main place that Labor was going to
31:37
Speaker 3: produce its main hydrogen producing plant, Pinary said Polluting Planet.
31:42
Speaker 3: Their main plant was in central South lond as far
31:46
Speaker 3: away from the sea as you can get. I'm sitting
31:49
Speaker 3: on top of a lignite mine. What would you do
31:53
Speaker 3: that minor lignite and make making lignite into hydrogen. It's
31:58
Speaker 3: called brown hydrogen. It's f filthy.
32:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, well he didn't know that. There's apparently there's six colors,
32:04
Speaker 2: as he said, but ours is all green hydrogen that
32:06
Speaker 2: we'd be looking at.
32:07
Speaker 3: It's not, isn't it. If you do a t y point,
32:09
Speaker 3: they produce brown hydrogen and ray hydrogen. Okay, their for
32:13
Speaker 3: their processes. Well, why isn't this manufatable for discussion or
32:17
Speaker 3: open debate?
32:17
Speaker 2: Oh? Look, it's probably what if you're talking to an
32:20
Speaker 2: expert on this stuff.
32:21
Speaker 3: But if we can you were talking to But if
32:24
Speaker 3: we can, if.
32:25
Speaker 2: We can create it using I guess green or turquoise,
32:29
Speaker 2: will blue hydrogen or whatever that where it is coming
32:33
Speaker 2: from a new renewable energy. Do you have a problem
32:35
Speaker 2: with that? Do you like the idea of what future.
32:37
Speaker 3: Find renewable energy for a start?
32:39
Speaker 2: Okay, well, well yeah, I mean I'm not going to
32:42
Speaker 2: be able to have that discussion with you, Richard. But
32:44
Speaker 2: if they can do it renewable energy, and I guess
32:46
Speaker 2: this is where the opposition, the Greens, will need to
32:47
Speaker 2: challenge them in Parliament because that's where the debate will
32:49
Speaker 2: be had. But thanks for your call. Lots more texts
32:55
Speaker 2: on the In fact, I'm scrolling through the correspondence right
32:59
Speaker 2: now to see if there's anyone who supports the PSA's action.
33:07
Speaker 2: Of course, if you're public service work, you probably are
33:09
Speaker 2: supporting it. But in terms of the corresponds to this show,
33:14
Speaker 2: I cannot find a single person who who doesn't think
33:19
Speaker 2: that people, if there asked to, should just get back
33:21
Speaker 2: to the office. Hi, Tim, I don't agree with this
33:26
Speaker 2: action as what about the office space we the taxpayer
33:30
Speaker 2: are paying for well, I mean, I'm not sure if
33:35
Speaker 2: that's really part of the argument, because you have to
33:37
Speaker 2: have the office space because people aren't going to work
33:39
Speaker 2: from home three and sixty five days a year, not
33:41
Speaker 2: that they're working three and sixty five days a year anyway.
33:43
Speaker 2: I think, what would it be forty five weeks to
33:46
Speaker 2: forty six weeks times five whatever that arithmetic amounts to, Tim,
33:52
Speaker 2: I'm getting older and I'd really like to work part
33:54
Speaker 2: time in my role at my employer. I won't have
33:56
Speaker 2: a bar of it. I'd like to see more job
33:57
Speaker 2: share roles or halftime rolls, coult out new ret graduates
34:00
Speaker 2: getting the jobs too. Something slightly unrelated, but yep related.
34:04
Speaker 2: I mostly heard about how hi Tim. I mostly heard
34:07
Speaker 2: about how looking from home suits the employees, not so
34:11
Speaker 2: much about the value for money for the employer. And
34:14
Speaker 2: that's from someone just simply signed taxpayer, Hi Tim. If
34:18
Speaker 2: work performance can be measured online, I don't see a problem,
34:22
Speaker 2: except commercial office owners wouldn't like it. With low sales
34:25
Speaker 2: and leasing demand, says Mike. Tell the lazies, I won't
34:31
Speaker 2: read this exactly. Tell the lazy so and so is
34:33
Speaker 2: to go to work like everyone else. The elite can
34:35
Speaker 2: work at home, but people who do the real graft, Sorry,
34:38
Speaker 2: you have to go to work. I think that that's
34:41
Speaker 2: probably one of the I think that's probably one of
34:45
Speaker 2: the one of the bars to getting a huge amount
34:47
Speaker 2: of public support for this. Isn't there hi, senior manager
34:51
Speaker 2: in the public ministry?
34:54
Speaker 3: Oh?
34:54
Speaker 2: This is who's writing it's swung too far setting meetings
34:58
Speaker 2: for people that used to be a five minute desk chat.
35:02
Speaker 2: People refusing to come into the office to talk to
35:04
Speaker 2: managers start asking what they're doing, what they're doing from home,
35:07
Speaker 2: and the complaint about bullying start. Then the PSA step
35:10
Speaker 2: and it's a nightmare. So there's someone from within the
35:13
Speaker 2: public service who's a senior manager who wants people to
35:16
Speaker 2: get their butts back into the office. Working from home
35:19
Speaker 2: is not a right. Get back to the office. Tell
35:21
Speaker 2: my doubt where the most government head officers have enough
35:24
Speaker 2: space for their staff. They need to get them to
35:26
Speaker 2: work from home and a roster Well that's just speculation.
35:30
Speaker 2: I'm sure they've got room for them. And that's pretty
35:34
Speaker 2: much it. On the feedback. We've got time for a
35:36
Speaker 2: little more if you'd like to, but we're going to
35:38
Speaker 2: take a quick moment. But if you want to give
35:41
Speaker 2: us a call eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. Yeah,
35:45
Speaker 2: we'll be back in just to take it's twelve minutes
35:47
Speaker 2: to four. News Talk said b to the like us small.
35:56
Speaker 8: Everywhere you go, let's welcome back to news Talk SAB
36:00
Speaker 8: the weekend. Collect a little more feedback on the on
36:03
Speaker 8: the working from home thing that in fact, there's a
36:05
Speaker 8: hell of a lot more feedback.
36:08
Speaker 2: I think that even the one message we got from
36:10
Speaker 2: Public Service was a little bit against it as well,
36:13
Speaker 2: just from the point of view of just trying to
36:15
Speaker 2: manage staff who's expectations pretty hard to manage, I think. Anyway,
36:21
Speaker 2: there was something else that somebody texted me about that,
36:24
Speaker 2: mentioning that in the UK there are shows in radio
36:29
Speaker 2: where the hosts broadcasting from their own homes and brilliant
36:32
Speaker 2: sound qualities, et cetera, et cetera, and it actually raises
36:36
Speaker 2: that thing. I wouldn't like to really broadcast this show
36:38
Speaker 2: from home because to me, it's a question of I think,
36:43
Speaker 2: getting into the environment of the newsroom and being able
36:47
Speaker 2: to have conversations ad hoc or planned or otherwise or
36:50
Speaker 2: whatever with your colleagues and the whole work culture thing.
36:53
Speaker 2: In fact, that was one question I meant to put
36:57
Speaker 2: to flur F Simon's but it wasn't, you know, the
37:00
Speaker 2: most It wasn't the most important question to ask. But
37:03
Speaker 2: there is something also just about the cultural workplaces, and
37:06
Speaker 2: I think that that is at a really important one.
37:11
Speaker 2: Having a workplace where people know each other for start,
37:15
Speaker 2: I mean, where you see just the power of human
37:20
Speaker 2: contact from a point of view of work performance and
37:22
Speaker 2: culture and all that sort of thing. I don't think
37:24
Speaker 2: it's to be underestimated. And that's why. I mean I
37:27
Speaker 2: have had times and when I broadcast from home, they've
37:29
Speaker 2: got some equipment they can send out. I think it
37:31
Speaker 2: was when I was back in the COVID days and
37:33
Speaker 2: if you got seck then and you couldn't go into
37:36
Speaker 2: the office, but you could still broadcast. And I loathed it,
37:39
Speaker 2: to be honest. I mean it was cute for an
37:41
Speaker 2: afternoon where you're like, guess what, I'm sitting in my
37:43
Speaker 2: office at home and I'm broadcasting around New Zealand. Isn't
37:45
Speaker 2: that amazing? But for me, I actually think that that
37:49
Speaker 2: it's one of the things that has been missing from
37:52
Speaker 2: society as a connection with each other, and I think
37:54
Speaker 2: that's just as important when it comes to the workplace
37:56
Speaker 2: and the teams you work within, and there's only so
37:58
Speaker 2: far you can develop that when you're staring down a
38:01
Speaker 2: zoom camera. And so I actually do think that that
38:04
Speaker 2: is a genuinely legitimate concern for any workplace. I'm no
38:08
Speaker 2: fan of Elon Musk, right, but when he said everyone
38:10
Speaker 2: get your butts back to work, I sort of like, yeah,
38:13
Speaker 2: I'm sort of with him a little bit. So also
38:17
Speaker 2: does remind me, as I said, it is a sort
38:19
Speaker 2: of an issue for the privileged sort of worker who
38:21
Speaker 2: doesn't have to interface with the public. Reminds me of
38:24
Speaker 2: that mighty Python sketch about you can always do the
38:26
Speaker 2: luxury sketch about something lukxturally, Oh you were lucky we
38:29
Speaker 2: had to work and all these other different situations. Anyway,
38:33
Speaker 2: thank you for all your feedback. A couple more texts
38:35
Speaker 2: to wrap it up. Is it not part of a
38:38
Speaker 2: flexible working arrangement as a reasonable discussion with your employer? Well,
38:47
Speaker 2: the first part of that text is pretty much says
38:49
Speaker 2: what I said, and then they go on to misquote
38:50
Speaker 2: me on something. But yeah, that's I mean, as flurfit.
38:53
Speaker 2: Simon's even acknowledged he said ideally, you do want it
38:55
Speaker 2: to be a cult. It's something that you work out
38:58
Speaker 2: with your manager that from time to time you might
39:00
Speaker 2: work from home based on the fact that you have
39:03
Speaker 2: proven yourself to be reliable, high performing employee, and away
39:06
Speaker 2: you go.
39:07
Speaker 3: TI.
39:08
Speaker 2: I agree with this action as what about the office
39:11
Speaker 2: space question. Hi, if I was a boss paying staff
39:14
Speaker 2: to work from home, either a pay cut or no
39:16
Speaker 2: job helps pay for the empty office space. And after
39:20
Speaker 2: forty years in the sun and raining construction, I certainly
39:22
Speaker 2: don't feel I'm lazy or entitled by working online in
39:25
Speaker 2: my home in my sixties. Well no, as I said,
39:27
Speaker 2: you know, that just points out that everyone has a
39:28
Speaker 2: different experience and high term I'm a public servant. Many
39:32
Speaker 2: departments have substantially less floor space than the number of employees.
39:37
Speaker 2: It accounts for sickness annually, even working from home often
39:40
Speaker 2: at around eighty percent. Those who work from home at
39:42
Speaker 2: times are prioritized ie eg. Spreading working from home and
39:46
Speaker 2: the office, so there's no overflow. I'm agnostic, but thought
39:50
Speaker 2: i'd pass a sign. Good on you always a little
39:53
Speaker 2: bit of agnosticism as well. Right, That wraps it up
39:55
Speaker 2: for politics. Thank you for all your text feedback. There
39:58
Speaker 2: was a few, quite a few I didn't manage to
40:00
Speaker 2: get to, but I appreciate taking the time to get
40:04
Speaker 2: in touch. Don't forget. Just looking a little bit further
40:07
Speaker 2: ahead to the show and Smart Money. At five o'clock,
40:10
Speaker 2: we're going to be a chat about Kiwi Saber, how
40:12
Speaker 2: there are some regulatory changes in neighboring enabling key We
40:15
Speaker 2: Saber providers to increase their private asset investments and what
40:19
Speaker 2: that's going to look like. And next the Health Hub.
40:23
Speaker 2: Dtor Alex Bartell's joining us. He's the director of the
40:26
Speaker 2: Sleep Well Clinic. I'm already having trouble sleeping because it's
40:29
Speaker 2: so bliming hot at night, got the fan going, all
40:31
Speaker 2: that bedclothes are off. What else can I do? Any
40:34
Speaker 2: problems you've got with sleep, you can give us a call.
40:36
Speaker 2: I wait, one hundred eighty ten eighty. We'll be back
40:39
Speaker 2: with the HealthHub in just a moment. It's coming up
40:41
Speaker 2: to four minutes to four news talks there beside.
41:09
Speaker 3: On too much.
41:11
Speaker 9: Live will be girl and you're going to bom because
41:17
Speaker 9: you know it don't matter anyway. You can along, old
41:22
Speaker 9: man Boddy, you can loud the old man Buddy it's
41:26
Speaker 9: a bitch girl, and don't you bocause you know it
41:29
Speaker 9: don't matter again.
41:32
Speaker 1: For more from Used Talks at b Listen live on
41:35
Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
41:38
Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio