Latest / The Curve / Google’s Chief Technologist on the Future We’re All Heading Toward.

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Google’s Chief Technologist on the Future We’re All Heading Toward. · The Curve

0:00
I've spent most of my career building Google technology that is kind of on the bleeding
0:08
edge of what is possible.
0:10
I sit with a lot of successful leaders and people that are building billion dollar start
0:14
ups and businesses and the one thing I know for certain is that nobody has it all figured
0:19
out.
0:20
I've never actually spoken about this publicly.
0:23
The biggest thing that's being talked about in the AI world right now is this idea of
0:29
it's probably not good enough just to have a great product anymore.
0:32
I actually think what you need to do is they build community.
0:35
I think if there was any advice that I would give to women or anyone thinking about investing,
0:42
it's that.
0:46
Before we dive into today's episode, we would like to just take a brief moment of your time
0:51
to let you know about a little podcast we've done with Lexus.
0:54
We all know it by now, pay laterals, right?
0:56
You might not need a dress, you get the dress, you pay it off later.
1:00
That's not the most amazing way to use your money or to buy things.
1:04
However, sometimes when it comes to saying buying a new car, you might not have the full
1:08
amount to pay straight away.
1:10
And that's why car financing for some people could actually be a really amazing option.
1:15
In this episode that we've recorded with Lexus, not the one that you're about to listen
1:19
to, but you can find the link in the podcast show notes.
1:21
We explain exactly how car financing works so that you can understand how your paying
1:26
interest off over time.
1:28
Right now, Lexus has a deal that is 1.9% interest, which is incredibly low.
1:34
If you are thinking, gosh, I would love a new car, but I don't think I could put all the
1:38
money down at once.
1:40
Watch this episode.
1:41
You can follow the link in the podcast show notes and we'll explain exactly how the deal
1:44
works.
1:45
Back to today's episode.
1:47
Yes.
1:48
Welcome.
1:49
Hi.
1:50
Hi.
1:51
Thanks for having me.
1:52
It's so nice to have you in our studio.
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You are based in London, and we meet you and we're in London.
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We actually did a reach out when we first moved here.
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And we were like, anyone in our community that, you know, we'd love to get in touch with
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we are moving to London and you are one of those people that reached out and I'd love
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to know, how did you come about the curve?
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I mean, I've been investing for a really long time and there was just, there was, it
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was all kind of bro finance and there was just nothing really for women.
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And then when I saw that you and Sof were developing this community for women, I just thought
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to myself, finally, there are so many of us that have been investing for so long and
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just finally there's other women speaking about what to invest, where do invest, how they
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think about money and saving and what not.
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So that's how I came across you.
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And so I remember you put out a post on Instagram that said, hey, we're looking for advice
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or we're looking for support and I just loved it because I think what you did was you
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did this thing that I say a lot of successful founders do and that is you increase your
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luck surface area.
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And what I mean by that is if you ask for what you want.
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And I found this at least in my career, which has been quite a rocket ship in technology.
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If that if you ask for what you want and you tell people what you want, then I know
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it's sometimes it feels eaky, but it's you're actually more likely to increase how lucky
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you are.
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Yeah.
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And to get what you want.
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Exactly what you need.
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Because they don't know if you're sitting across from someone or like, how are they to
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know what you want?
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I actually, I think I could get better at that, but I think as I've got older and realised
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how valuable my time is, it's like, of course, going and meeting someone and forming a relationship
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is great.
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But like, if there is something I want to get out of that meeting or that relationship
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or whatever, yeah, it's kind of asking for just cutting to the chase a bit.
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Yeah, totally agree.
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So you have spent like a decade now in the tech space, like that is outrageous.
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And you're now, the official title chief technologist at Google Australia.
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Yeah.
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Oh, so many questions.
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How did you get into it?
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What excites you about it?
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Like, how have you stayed in the space for so long?
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Anyone that has built a career in technology for at least how long life has been in it.
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We'll probably tell you it's a combination of a little bit of luck and a little bit of
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serendipity.
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And of course, you know, hard work, but that's generally the formula I would say.
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I think it is with a lot of careers.
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It's like, there is an element of luck, like, or who you meet at the right place, right
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time kind of thing, but then you also have to have your own drive.
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That's right.
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Yeah, all of that.
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That's right.
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So a little bit of luck, a little bit of serendipity.
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So I studied marketing at university in regional town in New South Wales in Australia.
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Yeah.
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And I got pulled out of that degree towards the end and headhunted by Google and got kind
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of flown to Silicon Valley and taught how to build systems and technology by the
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power of the internet.
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How did they know?
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Like, you were doing marketing.
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I was.
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Yeah.
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How did you get on Google's radar?
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So they were actually looking for students in regional towns in Australia.
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So they were saying, how can we bring, you know, diversity of thought, diversity of who
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is actually helping us build technology for the world or billions of users?
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How can we make sure we're building for everybody?
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So I was really lucky to be part of that thinking and Ben brought on the journey and I guess
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for the past 10 years have been had a backstage past to some of the fastest growing businesses
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in the world, building with technology and building with AI.
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So incredible.
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But even just that, the fact that Google realized to have diversity of thought and like views,
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we need to go into regional, you know, I don't know, like so many companies still and
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it frustrates, hello to me, is that there's still a product of the ecosystem that they surround
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themselves with.
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And it's like the fact that even 10 years ago, more than 10 years ago, Google was thinking
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that way is quite, quite outstanding.
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You also invest.
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Like when did you start investing?
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What got you interested in that?
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Yeah, we'll get into a bit more data on what you invest in, but yeah.
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How I started investing was probably how most people often start investing and that's
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someone in their life is investing, so you're seeing it and you're learning it by Osmosis.
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So my dad and my parents ran a small business in my hometown in Australia and I watched
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them work really hard at their, you know, their everyday job.
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But then I also particularly watched my dad sit at his desk and he would always be kind
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of doing his work, but then he'd have, you know, the stock market on one screen and the
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same time he might have the radio on while he was tinkering in his garage and he's
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listening to the stock market report or the TV on where we're looking at the different
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markets.
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So it was partly, I think, by Osmosis and then I was just really curious.
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I'm like, hey, dad, what are you investing in?
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What's a ticker?
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What are you looking at there?
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It's so funny because I was the opposite.
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My mum was like, Vic, she'd get the newspaper and she'd be like, look, look, these are stock
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prices for the end.
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I'd be like, oh, go away, Mom, go away because I was just like, I think it's because
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it was my mother, you know, and then it wasn't till I got out of university and I was
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like, oh, I can actually, like, you have that moment when you're like, mum was right.
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She was the cool mum at that time.
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Oh, God, I think she was right.
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And you're like, oh, okay, I think because she also wanted, like, she was kind of gutted
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that she hadn't got into it sooner in like, she was an accountant, but so she was trying
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to get into a bit late in the game, but like, yeah, she was out to me.
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Oh, you know, this is actually really interesting and there's so much going on and then I just
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had to figure it out for myself, I think.
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So it's quite cool that you were like, almost at my age were dead and you were like, oh,
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well, what's that?
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What's that rather than just being curious?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's so interesting though, we're like, you know, we still see a lot of girls kind of go
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in a different direction and are interested in a lot of different things than that.
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Yeah.
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I do.
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But I also just think, I have gone a very different direction.
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So I think a lot of us grew up potentially looking at their parents investing in BHP or
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you know, Rio Tinto or, but now I think as I've grown up, I've started to develop my own
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investor muscle and my own investor mindset where I'm actually investing in things that
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I see my friends using, I see other people using.
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So, you know, I'm actually investing now in things that I find interesting, which has
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just completely opened the door up for so many interesting conversations on how the
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world actually works.
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Well, and you're not intertwining work in your passion with your investing, right?
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And I think that's key and it's kind of what we try to teach the curve is like, if you
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think you have to sit down and start researching BHP and Rio to invest in, which are those
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are doing a big mind and companies in Australia, of course, you're not going to be interested
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in investing.
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Yeah.
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That's what I love about interest rate.
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Like, yeah, it's kind of, what are you interested in?
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What are you passionate about?
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I remember as a young analyst and my boss was like, right, the first sector you're going
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to cover to analyze and research is retail.
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And I was like, yes, amazing, absolutely, because I was like, I do that.
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So I understood it and it was like a great stepping stone.
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Whereas I've had been like, okay, you know, you're going to cover bio-tech or miners.
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I probably would have not been interested in investing, but.
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So I think the whole intertwine of your job, your interest, your investing, has it shaped
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what you invested in in terms of investing in more like tech companies?
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When you're working in tech, like I am, at the kind of bleeding edge of seeing what's
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getting built and what's getting made.
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And I don't think this is exclusive just to technology necessarily.
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I think it's, if you're listening to this and you're working in any industry, I think
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you've kind of got two choices.
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You can either sit there and just kind of watch the world go by or you can actually sit
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in your role and be like, wow, okay, so we're buying this particular technology and we're
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putting it across our entire business for payroll or, wow, it looks like everybody is walking
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down the street in Lululemon.
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That's interesting.
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Are they listed on the stock market?
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Yeah.
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It's like La Boo Boo.
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You know, you could walk past La Boo Boo and just think, wow, everybody's, what are
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these little dolls?
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What are these little dolls?
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Things on everyone's backpack.
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Do I need one?
10:59
Yeah.
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Or you can look at that and say, okay, I think it's pop, pop, pop, mark, pop, mark.
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Pop, mark, pop, mark.
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It's done fantastically well.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's listed on the, I think it's the Hong Kong stock exchange.
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I was kicking myself because I saw what all my friends having these La Boo Boo thanks.
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And I was like, such a stupid trend to me, just being like, and then I was like, damn
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it.
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I should have put that in being, yeah, how do I invest in that?
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Because it's such a trade.
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There's best mindset.
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That's right.
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I think it's a whole investing trend, though, is this whole cadolting is what they call
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it.
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It's like adults wanting to like still be kids and giving like on these trends with, with
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all these, with all these toys and any, it's up, we, we want to do it.
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If you can invest in it, then I, I just think it's that idea that learning how to
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invest is actually as much about is educating yourself about the technicalities of investing,
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but it's also about learning how to put on those glasses where you see the world differently
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and you're actually looking and saying, what is the investible opportunity?
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And once you put those glasses on, it's very hard to take them off.
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Yeah.
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I, I, I struggle to take them off sometimes.
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And I go go into, go into stores or even retail stores and I'm like, oh, oh, why, why
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is this store so packed?
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Or why is there so many people?
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Why is that product off the, there's, you know, that's the third time I've come into
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the supermarket now and that product hasn't been available or like, you know, yeah, and
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you start seeing, like even the Lula Lemons have really great example and we've spoken
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about this, you know, so many times, but like I could see that play out right so many people
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in my Pilates class, you'll get like, everyone wearing Lula Lemons.
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And now I look around, I honestly struggle to see Lula Lemons, like it's, there's, there's
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L.O., there's Tala, there's like all these other brands.
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Yeah, Tala huge.
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Yeah.
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Because of what Grace is doing.
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Yeah.
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And so I'm just like, that in itself is such a good, such a good story and such a good,
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like analogy of, yeah, just put your glasses on.
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Mm hmm.
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Put your investing glasses on and it'll change everything.
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Yeah.
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You've got to learn how to do it.
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Yeah.
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What is your, like, so you've been investing for a very long time.
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What would be your, I guess, biggest lesson that you've learned around money so far?
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Yeah.
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The biggest money lesson or investing lesson.
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Let's do investing.
13:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I would say that I've spent most of my career building Google technology that is kind
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of on the bleeding edge of what is possible.
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Mm hmm.
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So, and then I also help businesses grow their businesses with bleeding edge technology.
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And there's a couple of things that you learn in that space and that is you learn to
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build this muscle where you make decisions without knowing all the answers.
13:42
Gosh, that sounds scary.
13:43
It sounds scary, but the reality of that muscle is that the same way it is for investing,
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you kind of have to make the leap and you have to make the jump without knowing 100% of
13:57
the information.
13:58
Well, it's like anything in my life, right?
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Like you kind of don't know, you don't know if you start a new business, get into a relationship,
14:05
move countries.
14:06
That's right.
14:07
If you ever have all the information and like, I think I really love that, that it's
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like, you've learned how to, I guess, lean into the uncertainty a little bit.
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That's exactly right.
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So you have to learn to lean into uncertainty, lean to act without necessarily having all
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the information at hand.
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And that is essentially, it's a muscle, you'll never be ready.
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So that's what you learn, building a technology in, building a career on the bleeding edge
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of technology around investing is that people that are making big moves, and I've, I work
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with a lot of founders, people that are building billion dollar companies, they really act
14:44
without having all the answers.
14:46
Yeah.
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Do you think men are either doing that the moment because I'm 100% because we, I get really
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frustrated when it's, I hear people being like, oh, woman are risk averse and I'm like,
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no, no, no, I think we're just risk a where.
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And I think we, we like to have, you know, go into things, whether it's an investment
15:04
or a business or anything, any opportunity, we like to go in knowing, you know, having
15:10
dotted eyes and crossed our t's a bit more than, than men and I'm making a huge generalisation
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here.
15:15
But I do, I do see it a lot and I think it does hold us back a lot.
15:20
Yeah.
15:21
I think you're right.
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I think if there was any advice that I would give to women or anyone thinking about investing,
15:29
is that confidence comes with action, yeah, not before action.
15:37
So I think we can convince ourselves whether it's, yeah, taking a new job, investing in
15:44
a company, moving over the other side of the world, that you'll be able to make that
15:48
decision with having 100% of the answers.
15:51
And I think what's tricked us right now, I work in AI and data, is that we think we can
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find the answers to everything.
15:58
Yeah.
15:59
And sometimes you just can't and sometimes you actually have to act, your action comes
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through doing not before.
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So I would say the number one lesson is that being ready is a decision, not a feeling.
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Okay.
16:17
Yeah.
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So being ready to invest, being ready to start a business, being ready to change careers,
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being ready to move across the world, it's a decision.
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I think we all sit here and wait and we'll be like, oh, when I feel ready to do it,
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I'll do it.
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It's an illusion.
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It's a choice.
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Yeah.
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Oh my God, you're so right.
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And I'm just like thinking of a million things where I've waited till I feel ready.
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You'll never feel ready.
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Even starting a family, right?
16:45
100%.
16:46
I never felt I'm waiting to wake up and just like feel ready.
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You'll never feel ready.
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I've just had a little boy and highly ambitious at the top of my career.
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At a time where AI is at the bleeding edge and I decided to take time off a year to
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have a baby.
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And some people thought that was nuts, but for me, it was exactly the right thing to do.
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And again, being ready to start a family or whatever it is, it's a choice generally.
17:15
And I think that's really good for like, I mean, we always say anyone who's starting out
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investing is, you know, just start with, start with a pound, start with 10 pounds, just
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just start.
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You might lose it.
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You might lose it all.
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You know, like it's, but if you start with a small amount, you've, you've crossed that
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threefold from learning to doing.
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And I think it comes back to saying, yeah, you, you have made that decision of like, I
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am ready.
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I'm doing it now.
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And even though you might not.
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Well, I'm not ready, but I'll do it anyway.
17:44
Yes.
17:45
Yeah, you might not feel ready, but you've, you, you have made that decision, which makes
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you really.
17:49
Yes.
17:50
Exactly.
17:51
You realise, oh, crossing that threshold actually wasn't that scary.
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And now I've just boosted my confidence that I'm going to be more and I'm going to
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find more of a set.
17:58
Yeah.
17:59
And I'm being ready is not a feeling it's a decision.
18:01
Exactly.
18:02
And I, you know, I set with founders all over the world that are building AI startups.
18:07
And, you know, they're never fully ready.
18:10
Yeah.
18:11
No one is ready.
18:12
Everyone's just doing it.
18:13
What would be one of the, like, the biggest money lessons that you've learned in
18:16
your, in your career so far?
18:18
What I've learned is that good things take time.
18:20
So there's this quote from Warren Buffett and he says, if you aren't willing to own a
18:24
stock for 10 years, don't even think about owning it for 10 minutes.
18:28
I'd love that.
18:29
God, I quote so many Warren Buffett quotes, but that is a good, isn't it a good, it's so
18:34
true because so many people want a quick win when it comes to investing and I keep saying
18:39
no.
18:40
Especially if they are.
18:41
They want to know the thing right now.
18:43
And so I've held Google stock for 10 years without selling any, and I remember sitting
18:49
in front of, invest in front of financial advisors and them saying to me, you've got to diversify
18:55
your portfolio, you know, you're too concentrated in this particular stock.
19:00
And I remember sitting in front of them and being like, absolutely not, absolutely not.
19:07
You don't know anything, Adrian.
19:09
And if I had done that eight years ago, 10 years ago, my life would look completely different.
19:18
So I think what's really important is you should only invest in a company if you have
19:22
deep conviction in the fundamental business model and its abilities to kind of succeed
19:28
over a decade.
19:29
It's so true.
19:30
We have this, we've spoken about this in the care before, it's like if you were to go
19:33
to a desert island for five years, even 10 years and come back with this company that
19:38
you've invested in, be bigger and better and would you still be able to do that?
19:41
Well, that's a good way of thinking about it.
19:42
Yeah, it's like that.
19:43
But it's so hard right when you've got information overload, you've got, you know, the ability
19:47
to log in and look at your portfolio, you know, every minute every day to kind of, to
19:52
remove that.
19:53
But it's so true.
19:54
It's like, what, what companies in 10 years time would you still be happy to own?
19:59
Yeah, absolutely.
20:00
And I, you know, people keep telling me to sell and I'm not.
20:04
Yeah.
20:05
You're with the one laughing, yeah, yeah.
20:08
What would you say though to people who are new to investing and feel so far away from
20:14
being ready?
20:15
Yeah, I guess, how do you get that level of confidence to make that decision to be ready?
20:21
This is the fact.
20:22
I sit with a lot of successful leaders and people that are building billion dollar start-ups
20:27
and businesses.
20:28
And the one thing I know for certain is that nobody has it all figured out.
20:32
Yeah.
20:33
Nobody, not me, not you, not anyone on your vision board, everybody is making it up as they
20:40
go.
20:41
Yeah.
20:42
And like the difference between people that invest or, you know, make some kind of big move
20:48
is that they do the thing.
20:52
They decide to do the thing.
20:54
And I know that sounds like it's simplifying the sometimes big decisions, but that's honestly
21:03
what I've seen the difference is people that make the choice to do the thing.
21:06
That is it.
21:07
Yeah.
21:08
Because I remember when I was younger and I had this, this thing that I would tell myself
21:13
and it was like just say yes to any opportunity, figure out how to do it later.
21:17
And honestly, like, changed the game, like my boss or like someone would throw me into
21:22
a project or ask me to do something that I had no idea how to do and I'd be like, yep.
21:27
And then I'd go away and figure it out.
21:28
Exactly.
21:29
And that's how you grow as well, right?
21:31
Because if you just consider, oh no, I don't know how to do that or no, no, no, I don't
21:34
have the skills yet or I don't have the confidence to think, well, of course you're going to stay
21:38
in this kind of flywheel and it's like the way that you grow in confidence and experience
21:45
and knowledge is, yeah, we're saying yes to things that probably scare the bejesus out
21:50
of you.
21:51
Absolutely.
21:52
So I think it's a bit of a challenge to be an engineer at Google.
21:55
I had no engineering background.
21:58
I came from marketing and I taught myself how to do that.
22:01
And in hindsight, that looks like absolute craziness.
22:04
But now if I reflect on it, it was just this constant decision of doing something outside
22:12
of my comfort zone and acting without being ready.
22:15
And actually, I think that's probably the number one skill set that I'm seeing in anyone
22:20
that's doing anything interesting right now in AI.
22:23
Almost everyone is acting and building without knowing 100% of the answers.
22:28
And that's the same with investing too.
22:30
Yeah.
22:31
At some point, you just have to say, let's do it.
22:33
Yeah.
22:34
No.
22:35
No.
22:36
You mentioned you've just become a mum.
22:39
Yes.
22:40
Very exciting.
22:41
Little one year old.
22:42
Yes.
22:43
Has that changed how you invest, you know, look at money, save anything like that?
22:49
Have you had this newfound epiphany of the way you think about money or?
22:53
I was really quiet, I'm quite ambitious and I've spent a lot of my life, you know, focusing
23:00
on my career before having babies.
23:03
Yep.
23:04
And I was genuinely curious around how I would respond to my career and being super ambitious
23:14
and what would happen once I had a baby.
23:16
And I would say it's weirdly made me even more ambitious and even more focused on how
23:25
I make money because once you have a child that depends on you, that depends on you,
23:32
but also that you're, it's, if you're going to work and you're leaving that baby behind
23:38
all of a sudden you ask yourself, am I really, you know, where I'm spending my time?
23:45
Is that the, is that worth it?
23:48
Is that worth it?
23:49
Yeah.
23:50
Is that the best possible place that I could be spending my time?
23:54
And all of a sudden your focus actually has a cost.
23:58
Yeah.
23:59
So, you're not just going to work and just sitting there like, no, tweaking my thumbs and
24:03
twiddling your thumbs.
24:04
No, you can't because you don't have time.
24:05
Yeah, yeah.
24:06
So I was really nervous that when I was to have a baby and I was super ambitious if kind
24:11
of choices would be taken away and I was worried about that, but actually what's happened
24:16
is I have, I don't know if you feel the same way, but when you have so many choices, all
24:21
of a sudden you get decision paralysis and you're like, I could fly here, I could take that
24:24
job, I could do this.
24:26
And all of a sudden once you have a baby, it actually narrows your focus, but in a good
24:32
way.
24:33
To, to, to the baby or to the, just like, to, it narrows your focus on what can I act,
24:39
what am I actually excited about doing, what are the things that are going to light
24:43
me up the most?
24:44
And all of a sudden, you know, the choices get smaller, but you become more focused on
24:50
where you spend your time and also the focus, like I said, on how you're earning money.
24:55
Yeah.
24:56
So I think that's definitely a learning.
24:58
And then I also think having a baby really lights, a shine's a light rather on spending.
25:05
Yeah.
25:06
I think there are, yeah, I think there are stuff people.
25:10
Yes.
25:11
And then I think there are experienced people.
25:13
Yeah.
25:14
Okay.
25:15
I've always been an experienced person.
25:17
So I prefer to go and spend two weeks in India and sit in an ashram.
25:24
Then buy a new dress, which I could have, I look, I definitely do shop, but I'm not the
25:30
person that has the newest of everything.
25:32
But when you have a baby, all of a sudden, you end up with all this stuff.
25:37
And I was like, there has to be another way, like, where is the investing at the kids?
25:43
And you're like, like, said, we're going, we're going to India, right?
25:46
I don't want all this stuff.
25:48
Yeah.
25:49
I want it, I would much prefer to instead of having all his friends give him, you know,
25:55
little, little Nike shoes, like, hey, wouldn't it be great if they could invest in Nike
26:00
or him or instead?
26:02
So I think I want to invest in experience for him, but I don't want him growing up with
26:07
this value of, like, stuff equals happiness.
26:10
Yeah.
26:11
Gosh, there's so much, like, even just being a parent and, like, feeding, you know, housing
26:17
and loving them.
26:18
And then you've got to teach them about, like, money and, like, stuff doesn't actually mean
26:22
that, you know, it doesn't bring you value or all that, like, there's just so much pressure
26:26
I guess in terms of every aspect of a child's life.
26:30
But, like, is there anything that, I guess, has, that you want to pass down to him that,
26:36
like, maybe you weren't taught, like, apart from the stuff thing, like, like, off
26:40
from an investing side of things that you want to pass down?
26:43
Yeah.
26:44
I think what I learned from my parents, from watching them run a small business in
26:48
regional New South Wales and Australia, it was just their hard work, the hard work ethic.
26:53
Yeah.
26:54
I grew up from, you know, my parents, my family is Italian, they're an immigrant family.
26:59
So I think anyone knows that if you live in an immigrant family, there is this hard
27:04
work ethic.
27:05
Yeah.
27:06
You just, it's in everything that you do.
27:08
I saw my parents work really hard and the value of money was really obvious.
27:14
But I think what maybe we didn't talk about growing up is we didn't actually talk about
27:19
money.
27:20
Yeah.
27:21
It wasn't something that we actually sat down that was kind of around, but we never really
27:26
sat down and talked about money.
27:28
And I think I would like to do that probably a little bit more with my son.
27:33
Yeah.
27:34
And also too, I think we're at a really interesting time right now with money not being tangible.
27:40
So I was just, we're so true.
27:43
Yeah.
27:44
It's like we used to play shop.
27:45
That's right.
27:46
You know, you have coins and notes and now, like, your son will be like, what is this?
27:49
What is this?
27:50
I was, um, I was babysitting my nephew the other day and we were at the one of these play
27:55
centers, um, which is not that fun, but anyway, we go to these places now, um, and he was
28:02
like, I want an ice cream.
28:04
I want lollies and I did the thing that all the mums and the aunties do and they'll go,
28:07
I know, I've got no money.
28:08
I can't buy.
28:09
I've got no money.
28:10
And he's like, yes, you do.
28:11
He calls me nat nat.
28:12
He's like, yes, you do nat nat.
28:13
And he said, it's, it's on your watch.
28:16
And I was like, you're like, wow, it's like, yeah, you just go up and beep and it's on
28:22
your watch.
28:23
Oh, wow.
28:24
Like, oh, okay, I don't know if I wanted to get into explaining economics to the three
28:29
year old, four year old right now, but it's almost heart like, okay, well, what's behind
28:34
the watch?
28:35
Where does that come from?
28:36
Yeah.
28:37
The banking system.
28:38
That's what I said.
28:39
I said, but how does the money get in the watch?
28:40
And he's like, well, you just tap it.
28:41
It just goes there.
28:42
And I thought to myself, so much to unpack there and that is what kids now are thinking.
28:49
When they're thinking about money, they think it's living inside the watch and it's endless
28:53
probably.
28:54
Exactly.
28:55
So I actually think not only do I want to talk more about money, I want to make sure I'm
29:00
physically kind of showing him money too, because I think there's a real fear for this next
29:06
generation of kids who actually don't see money that they won't understand that it's just
29:11
not inside a watch.
29:12
And they won't just understand that it's, that it's scarce and finite, right?
29:16
Yes.
29:17
Like, if you spend $10, you're spending $10 or you spend 10 pounds or what, you know,
29:20
like, they'll just be like, well, no, you just keep tapping until it runs out or
29:23
not.
29:24
That's right.
29:25
So I think it's like, if you're a parent right now, and I haven't got there yet, because
29:28
he's quite young, but I think it's like going to the shops and, you know, if you are tapping,
29:33
you open up the app and you say, look, the money just went down.
29:37
Did you see that?
29:38
The money went down.
29:39
Because I must have met when I was learning, like you, you, your parents would be like,
29:42
okay, well, here's, you go get the change and make sure we've got the right amount
29:45
of change.
29:46
And you count the change together.
29:47
That's right.
29:48
I think all of that, yeah, it's completely gone.
29:51
The idea of, here's $5 to go the shop, which you couldn't buy anything from the shop
29:55
down for $5.
29:56
But if you, $5 for your sour worms to go to the shop and give me back the change, like
30:02
that whole sentence, give me back the change, that is probably gone from the vocabulary
30:08
for kids.
30:09
And then for the maths of, of, of learning that, right?
30:11
Of like, okay, five minus, I don't know, $3.20, what does that mean?
30:15
What does that mean?
30:16
Of those little mechs, you know, equations that are integral in your life, are gone.
30:22
Oh, I don't know, I don't know, think of that.
30:24
Yeah.
30:25
So I think it's right now and money is very experimental and I think we're kind of going
30:29
through this.
30:30
It'll be interesting to see in the next kind of five to ten years that what that money
30:34
mindset looks like.
30:35
Yeah.
30:36
But I think if you are a parent right now, it's probably really leaning into the fact
30:40
that it's money is not finite and it's not infinite and actually, physically,
30:46
showing them what money looks like.
30:48
Yeah.
30:49
I'm trying to do that more.
30:50
Yeah.
30:51
Now, I really want to get into AI.
30:54
It has been a maths of topic for our community, for the world, for like, the investing
31:02
work.
31:03
I'd love to know with your expertise and knowledge and, you know, being at the forefront
31:07
of technology and Google, like, what do you think people get most wrong when it comes
31:13
to AI?
31:14
I work with a lot of businesses, so I get to sit with a lot of leaders who are thinking
31:19
about using AI and I think the biggest misconception that I see is that everyone kind of thinks
31:25
that AI is a chatbot.
31:27
Yeah.
31:28
It's that little thing that pops up on the side of your screen when you're trying to buy
31:32
something.
31:33
It's just so annoying.
31:34
It's just so annoying.
31:35
Yeah.
31:36
Minimize.
31:37
Minimize.
31:38
I think people have this feeling idea that that's all it is when actually it is so
31:43
much more than that.
31:44
Yeah.
31:45
It's like, it is, AI is disrupting every single business, like every single part of how
31:52
you build a business, sell a product, provide customer service.
31:57
It is, AI is completely changing every part of that.
32:01
I think also a big misconception is that AI is only for your techie friend and at least
32:07
what I was seeing.
32:08
I've been teaching businesses about AI and building AI products since 2018, way before
32:15
it was cool.
32:16
It's only just now that my family and my friends are like, oh, you've been doing this for
32:21
so long.
32:22
You've been doing this for so long.
32:23
Not.
32:24
We finally get it.
32:25
Thanks.
32:26
You guys are fine.
32:27
I'm not just fixing your Gmail.
32:32
My parents think I'm the person that pulls up the results behind Google.com, like I'm
32:37
not that person.
32:38
No, no, no.
32:39
I'm allowed to go on holidays.
32:40
Yeah.
32:41
So, I think it's this idea that AI is not just for your techie friends and I think actually
32:46
it is the most exciting time to be building your career, to be potentially building a business,
32:53
to be potentially investing in technology because the access to these tools are just
32:58
like so democratized, they've never been easier to use.
33:03
So even just tools like accessing basic things like chat GBT or if you want to build a quick
33:11
prototype of a business idea that you have, being able to go to a replet or lovable and
33:16
actually just talk and app into existence like that never existed before.
33:22
I totally get that, but then I thank for a lot of people.
33:25
The fast paceness, it's changing honestly every day.
33:31
It is.
33:32
It's hard for even me.
33:33
Yeah.
33:34
You just get used to using something like chat GBT and then something else pops up and
33:38
it's like, oh, you should be using, I don't know, Claude or Gemini or something.
33:41
It's like all these, there's also when there's opportunity and such high growth in any industry
33:48
or with anything, it leads to new businesses, new competitors.
33:53
It's just, I don't know, I personally find it very overwhelming to keep up with.
33:59
And like how do you, like obviously you live and breathe it every day, but like for the
34:03
average person, yeah, how do you, how do you not get overwhelmed or intimidated by it,
34:08
I guess?
34:09
It's again, it comes back to a choice which we talked about before, like the choice on
34:14
the mindset to investing, you have to make a choice to actually use the technology.
34:19
Yeah.
34:20
So that is actually what might be surprising is that you're probably already using it already.
34:25
So if you use Google Maps to get somewhere, that recommendation engine, you're already
34:30
using that or even Netflix, Netflix, yeah, yeah, you're choosing what to watch.
34:34
That's another recommendation engine.
34:36
So let me say that if you're overwhelmed, you're actually probably already using it.
34:42
So relax.
34:43
Calm down.
34:44
Calm down.
34:45
Calm down.
34:46
But then secondly, let's just say you're running a business, then open up chat GPT and
34:53
start asking questions or start opening Gemini and start asking it questions or if you're
34:59
making content, you know, train it on your voice and get it to say, Hey, how would
35:04
Natalie write this or, you know, I think it's, it's scary until you actually put it
35:09
in the context of your own world.
35:11
And I think that's what you need to do.
35:14
And I think coming back to what you said before about feeling ready and making the decision
35:19
to be ready, it's, I feel like it's the same with new technology, right?
35:23
Like 100%.
35:24
Like even such a bad analogy, but like even tech talk, I'm like, ugh, don't know all these
35:28
features or how to use it.
35:29
And I feel like such a boomer sometimes.
35:31
But then I'm like, okay, we'll back the only way to actually learn is to use it.
35:35
That's right.
35:36
I've learned like probably one percent of the features on there, but I've, but I've learned
35:41
and I've taken the leap and I might actually learning.
35:43
That's right.
35:44
And it's the same with this.
35:45
I remember being like, oh gosh, chat to PT, scary.
35:47
And then once you start using it and you're like, oh, and now, now when I go on holiday,
35:50
I'm like, tell me, tell me some great restaurants.
35:53
And it's, it's makes my life so much easier, like, but if you have this aversion, aversion
35:59
to it or you don't want to embrace it, I think that's a bigger threat and I think so too.
36:05
I think you probably realistically have probably the next one to two years to stay in this
36:15
mindset of all like this AI stuff is all too overwhelming and it's sort of just all too
36:20
much to keep up with until, so in that one to two years, if you don't decide to be a part
36:28
of the change, it will get so far ahead of you that you will be left behind.
36:34
That is the reality.
36:35
Season seven of Game of Thrones.
36:36
It's like, you want to be, you want to be on season one.
36:38
You want to be on season one.
36:39
You want to be on season one.
36:40
You don't want to be.
36:41
Yeah.
36:42
Okay.
36:43
So if that's the case, where do you see AI having the biggest impact then in the next
36:49
kind of five or 10 years?
36:50
The biggest thing that's being talked about in the AI world right now is this idea of
36:56
AGI, artificial general intelligence.
37:01
Artificial general intelligence.
37:02
Yeah.
37:03
AGI.
37:04
No, different.
37:05
It's it's it's part of it's part of.
37:09
So I remember we had a conversation like a few months ago and you were like, yeah,
37:13
you were like, oh, Gina K.
37:14
I was like, what's the heck?
37:16
You were like, oh, I was like, and now you're talking about something else.
37:18
I'm like, oh, gosh, so it's the idea that in the next couple of years, yeah, everyone
37:25
will have this assistant or knowing assistant that sits inside their pockets in their phone.
37:34
That will just know everything about your life.
37:37
Yes.
37:38
It will be I mean, but in a good way, it'll be like, hey, you've got a meeting and you've
37:48
got to meet this founder and there is traffic.
37:53
So you quickly, you know, you better get in the car, go ahead and buy the way.
37:56
We also know that, you know, you've got no food in the fridge.
38:00
Yes.
38:01
Yeah.
38:02
So maybe we'll send off a a shopping list to woolly's or saints breeze or waitroads or whatever
38:08
it might be.
38:09
Oh, and by the way, you also need to pay your phone bill.
38:14
So we'll just quickly go and pay that for you.
38:16
Sounds like a dream.
38:17
Right.
38:18
We're sitting there being like, thank you.
38:19
Thank you.
38:20
That's right.
38:21
And now you're kind of, if you think about what your day looks like, it's opening up
38:24
all these different apps to do these different things.
38:27
I mean, there's so many, even just tabs on my computer.
38:30
Right.
38:31
So eventually, there will be this assistant that will be able to help you through your
38:35
everyday life.
38:36
And it'll know all things about what it takes to run your life.
38:41
So that's what's going to be in the pocket of us in the next kind of probably between
38:46
by five to 10 years.
38:47
I already feel like that's happening, even like ChatGPT, right?
38:50
And I was like, my partner, Loll, we were on holiday and he like, he got his, and what
38:55
he called it, the agent on ChatGPT, like the voice, the voice command, and he named it
38:59
Chaturika.
39:00
And he's like, now, honestly, I'm like, he's like, hey, Chaturika, can you tell me when
39:05
Delay saving is, remember, like, honestly, and they just sit there and have these conversations
39:08
and I'm kind of getting a bit jealous.
39:09
I'm like, excuse me, but it's kind of, it's kind of the same, right?
39:14
But having this, yeah, this agent that knows everything about you.
39:18
Yeah.
39:19
In terms of investing in AI, because there's been a lot of, I guess, conversations recently
39:26
about how this is an AI bubble that we're in.
39:30
And there's a lot of headlines and people are a bit scared in terms of, you know, a lot
39:35
of share prices for a lot of companies exposed to AI, you know, you can't even, there's
39:40
not even a financial update now with a public company that doesn't mention AI.
39:44
You know, like, it's everywhere and it feels very bubbly.
39:49
And by bubble, I mean, you know, bubbles burst and then, yeah, share prices fall.
39:54
What would you say to this AI kind of boom and acceleration being called an AI bubble,
40:00
like the dot com bubble that we had where everything, every company had dot com at the end,
40:06
every almost thinking the internet is going to be absolute game changing, which it was,
40:09
but that bubble burst and a lot of people lost money.
40:14
What would you say?
40:16
I feel like you're very pro AI.
40:19
I'm, I am very pro AI, I just, but do you think there is a lot of, oh, the high exuberance
40:24
here?
40:25
I mean, you can, there is definitely a lot of hype.
40:28
There's no doubt.
40:30
But what I think AI has done is at least what I see, it's like it's given every person,
40:39
whether it's just like in your personal life or it's, if you run a business, this kind
40:43
of permission slip to do something different.
40:46
Yeah.
40:47
Okay.
40:48
Yeah.
40:49
Which is what I really find quite compelling.
40:53
And so the other part, I think I see is it was our founder, Sergei, I heard him say that
41:00
this AI boom is fundamentally different to the internet boom, because in the internet
41:07
boom, we kind of knew the limits of what the internet was.
41:12
We kind of could see that everyone would end up with a website.
41:15
Yeah.
41:16
We roughly could see that.
41:18
Yeah.
41:19
But there'd be a bit of search functionality on that.
41:20
There'd be search.
41:21
People would be more connected.
41:22
Yeah.
41:23
Not everyone's going to have three, three internet so you know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:27
So it would be, it's, but now why a, that this, I think this AI boom is fundamentally
41:33
different to the internet boom is that we don't know the limits of intelligence.
41:39
We, we, we actually don't know, you know, can AI be five times smarter than a human?
41:45
Can it be a hundred times smarter than a human, you know?
41:49
The limit of just how transformative this technology can be extends so much wider than
41:56
just everybody having a website.
41:58
Yeah.
41:59
Okay.
42:00
I think this, this technology, it's, it's almost like this layer across everything that
42:08
we use.
42:09
It's in everything.
42:10
And like we said, it's in your Netflix, it's in recommending what you're watching.
42:14
It's in your Instagram kind of, you know, recommending what you should scroll through
42:19
or what you should buy.
42:20
So I almost feel like it's not like a new thing over here.
42:22
It's, it's across everything, it's across everything.
42:25
It's even if you're in a business, it's, you know, how do you hire, deciding what
42:31
you build, how you actually provide customer support?
42:35
So it's just so ingrained into every single flow of how we live our lives, that I find
42:45
it, it's, there's no doubt that it's a very bubbly conversation at the moment, but at
42:51
least I sit on the bleeding edge of seeing businesses actually using this technology.
42:55
Yeah.
42:56
And it's been integrated into absolutely everything they do.
42:59
When we, when we last spoke, you spoke about evolution versus revolutions and, and how
43:05
AI is, is an evolution.
43:08
No.
43:09
It's a revolution.
43:10
Sorry.
43:11
I knew.
43:12
I was like, I've got a 50, 50 starts here.
43:13
No, it's a revolution.
43:14
Yeah.
43:15
Whereas a lot of technologies, evolution is the same things.
43:18
How you articulated that was for me a bit of a light bulb moment and yeah, if you could
43:23
just explain that again.
43:25
There are some technologies that are evolutionary, so that they're just kind of small incremental
43:32
changes.
43:33
And then there's technology that is revolutionary, that is completely different to the way we
43:40
live our lives today.
43:42
And it's seemingly kind of changes everything overnight.
43:45
If you think about, I had, I don't know if you did too, I had the knocky, knocky R3315.
43:50
Yes.
43:51
Yeah.
43:52
Thanks.
43:53
And I was saying, early 30s, but, but it was the 30s still.
43:55
And then we did the 15.
43:56
That's right.
43:57
And you got the highlighter.
43:58
And you did the, you know, and then you got what I think you're going to say is the
44:02
iPhone.
44:03
And the iPhone.
44:04
Yeah.
44:05
And why was that?
44:06
It, everyone all of a sudden was standing outside the Apple Store and they were lining
44:09
up to get this technology.
44:10
Why?
44:11
Because it was 10 times better than what we've had today.
44:15
Yeah.
44:16
Same thing is, like you might sit there and think, chat GBT, Gemini has come out of nowhere.
44:21
It's because it's revolutionary.
44:23
It's completely different to what we've been used to, how we've been used to working today
44:29
or searching for information today.
44:30
So, technologies that tend to stick and that tend to be around for a while that build
44:36
successful companies, they tend to be technologies that is revolutionary, completely different
44:42
to how we're living, working today versus evolutionary, which is small incremental changes.
44:48
So, I guess the investing mindset is there, is like, if I look around me, where are
44:54
the technologies that are so fundamentally different to what I've seen today that are
45:00
completely shifting industry, that is something to keep an eye out for.
45:05
We're a beginner investor that wants to get exposure to this AI boom.
45:10
What would be your suggestion?
45:11
Is it an ETF because everyone's going to win and it's going to be years and years and
45:15
it's going to be game-changing or is it to pick the ones that are already winning, quote
45:20
unquote, winning in the space or very obviously investing in it, the ones that invest in the
45:24
most.
45:25
They're probably companies we haven't even seen yet, like how would be a good starting
45:30
point?
45:31
It's a really good starting point.
45:32
If you're excited about investing in AI is probably not the obvious and that is start
45:39
using AI.
45:40
I know it's not the answer that you want me to say, go and invest in this company because
45:46
they are building this data center and putting billions of dollars into this algorithm.
45:51
I think it's actually starting at the wrong end.
45:54
It's really hard to know what to get excited about if you're not actually...
45:59
If you're not even leaning into it.
46:01
Yeah, sure.
46:02
It starts with you being curious about how can I use a technology in my everyday life
46:07
and then asking the questions.
46:08
Well, because then you'll be able to see, right, oh, we'll actually demonize way better
46:11
than this and then demonize on very Google or you'll be able to see, oh, okay, yeah,
46:16
you'll start all these applications that you're using might be...
46:18
It'll become more obvious.
46:19
Yes.
46:20
So I just think it's really hard if you want to be a part of where the world is going,
46:25
you need to be leaning into using where the world is going and leaning into the technology.
46:31
You need to invest in it, not just with your...
46:34
You need to invest in it with your time.
46:36
Yes.
46:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:38
That's exactly what I would say.
46:39
Yeah.
46:40
Nice.
46:41
And then the opportunities of where you put your money and obviously that's up to you
46:44
and I can't tell you what to do with that.
46:46
But it'll become more obvious once you lean into the change with your own time.
46:51
And something we spoke about off-mic was the flip side of AI is the kind of in person.
46:58
And the like what people will crave because there is so much, you know, so much of the
47:03
world leaning into AI and people will actually start craving, you know, and hear some things
47:08
and experiences.
47:09
Yeah.
47:10
And I think it's probably not good enough just to have a great product anymore.
47:14
Yeah.
47:15
I actually think what you need to do and lasting businesses do is they build community
47:20
around that product.
47:22
And I think people, just like the dating scene has changed from apps to IRL, like people
47:29
want to connect offline now.
47:31
So I actually think if, you know, you're building a business or thinking about building
47:35
even just a personal brand, you have to be thinking around what does community look
47:42
like because people, especially now we've not been able to tell is this content real,
47:47
is that is it actually not the moment they are here?
47:50
Maybe she sent her a one though, one though we won't be real, but I just think that this
47:55
idea of in real life and coming back to basics with humanity, that is the feeling of like
48:02
human connection.
48:03
Yeah.
48:04
No, 100%.
48:05
That doesn't go away.
48:06
Human connection, those, you know, innate feelings have been with us for thousands and
48:10
thousands of years.
48:11
Well, we're already seeing that, right?
48:12
Like I even remember, like little things like, you know, we had bricks and mortar stores,
48:17
right?
48:18
You go, we had bricks and mortar and they went online, you could do online shopping.
48:21
And then we had online stores, like, you know, even Amazon starting and now it's going
48:24
back to bricks and mortar and like there's so much cross between, I don't know, it real
48:29
life and online and even podcasting, like if you take Alex Cooper, for example, starting
48:33
with the podcast, you know, building an incredible community and now she's doing live shows
48:38
to harness that, that in person community element, not just online and so I think you're
48:42
so right.
48:43
I think the more that we lean into relying on technology and AI, there's also this, this,
48:50
we're going to lean more into, you know, community and having real connections with people
48:55
because I think so too.
48:56
You get to the point where you're like, is this real?
48:59
Can we just jump back to before we wrap up, just wanted to touch on your investing journey?
49:05
What kind of things that you invest in now, because I know that we're talking before
49:08
and you have a pretty diversified kind of investment portfolio, which I find quite fascinating.
49:13
So yeah, what kind of things do you invest in?
49:16
Yeah.
49:17
So I'm excited to talk about this.
49:18
I've never actually spoken about this publicly, but that's what I think what these, your
49:23
podcast and your communities is really exciting about, because I think so many of us women
49:27
we sit there and we think, oh, they must know something that I don't.
49:30
Yeah.
49:31
Or like, what are they actually doing?
49:32
Yeah.
49:33
Or they're just all talking.
49:34
I think.
49:35
Oh, yeah.
49:36
And actually investing.
49:37
Yeah.
49:38
It's probably just more like helpful.
49:39
Like, what does it actually look like?
49:40
So for me, so when you work for a tech company, like Google, you get given shares in the company,
49:47
not always, but sometimes you do.
49:48
Yeah.
49:49
So I invest in Google and have, have for the past 10 years.
49:54
Yeah.
49:55
So I guess invest in the US tech market.
49:58
I also invest in the stock market and more broadly.
50:04
So I have, I only have kind of three ETFs that I mainly invest in every single month.
50:11
I started to do lots of different separate companies and then I realized, I mean, I just,
50:17
I don't have time necessarily to do that.
50:19
And I think there's a mentality that ETFs is like cheating or lazy or like, no, no, no,
50:24
I am like all for it.
50:25
Yes.
50:26
You're still investing.
50:27
Absolutely.
50:28
Make your life simple.
50:29
Make your life easy.
50:30
Every month I invest into like an ETF for the top US companies and the top Australian
50:37
companies and then a global kind of an emerging markets ETF.
50:43
And then I will invest in kind of specific companies if I have a really strong conviction.
50:50
Okay.
50:51
So it, that is more of an outlier.
50:54
So I do invest in specific technologies, but only when it's something specific, yeah,
50:59
a unique outlier.
51:01
And I just find that keeps me more accountable.
51:03
So every month I invest into those kind of core and then satellite.
51:07
And then I invest in property.
51:11
So I, I guess I'm a property developer now, so I've developed a couple of properties.
51:17
Nice.
51:18
And Australia.
51:19
In Australia.
51:20
Yeah.
51:21
So a couple of duplexes.
51:22
Nice.
51:23
So learn what it takes to actually build investment properties and rent them and I haven't
51:27
sold any yet, but have done that and also built properties for department of defense.
51:33
So defense property where the, the defense kind of rents them out and they, they have contracts
51:39
for the next kind of sick, they lock them in for six years.
51:41
Yeah.
51:42
Which is quite interesting.
51:43
That's quite good.
51:44
Yes.
51:45
Consistent income.
51:46
Consistent income.
51:47
Yeah.
51:48
I've invested in commercial property too.
51:49
Yeah.
51:50
And so warehouses because it's a lot easier to, I mean, the, there's just less things to
51:56
go wrong.
51:57
And I actually think that's probably more interesting now than developing kind of residential
52:01
property.
52:02
Yeah.
52:03
Just because they're like concrete walls and there's not much that can go wrong.
52:05
And I guess the key thing would be the tenant, right?
52:07
The tenant.
52:08
And they usually lock in for kind of five years.
52:11
Like I have a cleaning company in one of mine at the moment and I know they're going to
52:15
be there for five years and, you know, a, like a mechanic, for example.
52:19
Yeah.
52:20
And I guess people lean into residential because it's what they know, right?
52:23
Exactly.
52:24
It's like, yeah, but commercial.
52:25
Commercial is probably more interesting.
52:27
Yeah.
52:28
And then I also invest in, in startups, which is a slightly more high risk category.
52:35
So that'd be like a smaller portion of people for the other.
52:39
Yeah.
52:40
Yeah.
52:41
That's a much more.
52:42
So this is like, I put money on startups.
52:43
I put money where I, you know, I might not ever see it again.
52:47
Yes.
52:48
Yeah.
52:49
But I really.
52:50
So like, yeah, I'm like, I really believe in what they're doing.
52:55
And but to do that, it's a much higher risk category.
52:58
Yeah.
52:59
And I think, you know, you definitely don't have to do that.
53:02
But and also, I think, at least in Australia, I think it's similar issue in the UK.
53:06
You have to go through certain amount of criteria to actually be able to invest in startups.
53:10
Yeah.
53:11
And so yeah, I do that as well.
53:13
Because a lot of the companies that you would probably see in your, in your job would
53:17
be private companies would like, kind of at the forefront of AI, because I think that's
53:21
also the issue with a lot of people is like, if they want to invest in things, the companies
53:25
are private because usually it's only the big, you know, the big, the big companies that
53:29
have, that are of a certain size and threshold to actually be public, so therefore there's
53:35
quite a lot of frustration for our community is like, okay, well, they might see some really
53:38
cool.
53:39
Yeah.
53:40
You can't invest in open AI yet.
53:41
Yes.
53:42
Yeah.
53:43
But you might be all like, you can't invest in Canva yet.
53:45
Yes.
53:46
But eventually, you will be able to, but I think you're probably only looking at that
53:52
if you've kind of exhausted all the other options.
53:54
I think you're much better, kind of just looking at what are the big bets right now?
53:58
Yeah.
53:59
Big companies that you know of potentially in leaning into that.
54:02
But I think, yeah, if you're interested in high risk ways of investing, then I would,
54:08
yes, do a, do a course on startups.
54:10
Yeah.
54:11
And when it comes to women, why do you think it's particularly important that women
54:17
lean into AI?
54:18
I think women largely miss the internet boom.
54:22
And I work with people who did live that internet hype.
54:27
And I do worry that if women don't lean into this technology, AI technology now will
54:34
potentially be reliving the past.
54:36
Yeah.
54:37
And for someone that's actually living and working and breathing in this space, the
54:40
opportunities are endlessly, like the opportunity to build your career right now in this AI
54:45
world is just so exciting.
54:49
And actually there was this really interesting research.
54:52
So open AI just launched their first set of research around how people were actually
54:57
using chat GPT.
54:58
Oh my God, fascinating.
55:00
And they just, and so when they first launched in late 2022, the user base was estimated
55:06
to be about 80% male.
55:09
Okay.
55:10
But by July 2025, the study found that users that females now made up 52% of 52% of
55:22
women are now using chat GPT versus 30% just a couple of years ago.
55:29
Yeah.
55:30
So women are now actually using AI more believe it or not.
55:34
Okay.
55:35
Nice.
55:36
So what's this coding tool that I could build or how do I use it as a tool where women
55:44
are using it?
55:45
Like how do I be?
55:46
How do I create this thing?
55:47
How do I create this communication?
55:49
How do I optimize and organize my life?
55:52
So the data is actually showing that we're using technology, AI technology actually even
55:57
more.
55:58
But I still think there is this existential risk of if you don't lean into AI, it could
56:03
be left behind.
56:04
Yeah.
56:05
Like the gap, the investing gap, right?
56:07
There's an investing gap between men and women and there's an AI gap, which is only going
56:10
to, you know, compound the investing gap if we don't lean in.
56:15
But I also come back what you said before about, you know, it is, it's democratizing investing,
56:21
right?
56:22
Because like, women who may have been a bit scared because this is a whole space where
56:26
there's lots of jargon, you know, it's overwhelming the whole investing space can now type into
56:32
AI or chat GBT and be like, hey, what's going to invest in all of it?
56:35
You know, it's in their tone, it's in their language.
56:37
That's right.
56:38
I think it's actually can be quite helpful rather than harmful or not helpful than harmful.
56:43
And I'm seeing women doing building businesses like they're in tax accounting, which might
56:50
seem quite boring, but they're saying like this is a repeated decision that everybody
56:55
has to do.
56:56
Yeah.
56:57
So maybe how could AI potentially transform the tax, the way we do taxes?
57:02
So I've seen another lady building a business and she's in retail and she's looking at
57:07
the AI kind of try it on technology.
57:10
Yeah.
57:11
Whether saying like, wow, could we help retailers by putting, you know, accelerating the way
57:18
we create marketing, you know, materials, et cetera.
57:21
So I actually think it doesn't matter what industry you're in, you can potentially see
57:26
the opportunity for building.
57:28
Yeah.
57:29
Yeah.
57:30
And using.
57:31
But it's just all about leaning in.
57:32
Yeah.
57:33
Yeah.
57:34
And what would be, just to finish, what would be kind of one, one practical, no fluff piece
57:39
of advice that you'd give to women in particular who are just starting investing?
57:45
Confidence.
57:46
Yep.
57:47
To invest comes with action, not before action.
57:52
So you don't wait to feel ready to do the thing to, to invest, invest, it's a feel
58:01
that being ready is a decision, not a feeling.
58:06
So open up the app.
58:08
Yes, darling.
58:09
You know, put 10 pound in every 10 dollar in it.
58:13
You're making a decision for you right now.
58:15
You're ready.
58:16
So don't over complicating your mind.
58:17
Don't think you, because what we do is women, we sit there and we go, right, this is my
58:21
monthly paper, monthly if I divide that by two and you go, maths it, don't stop, stop
58:28
doing that.
58:29
Yeah.
58:30
Just chuck that 10 pound.
58:31
Just do it.
58:32
Just put $10 in and see how you go.
58:34
Yeah.
58:35
And just don't stop.
58:36
We don't need to over complicate it.
58:37
Yes.
58:38
Because I can tell you right now, all the men are out there.
58:40
They're not doing that.
58:41
They're just doing the thing.
58:42
Yeah.
58:43
So we should too.
58:44
No, I love that.
58:45
And I think that's a great end to this conversation.
58:47
It's like, honestly, I want to go put that on a poster note.
58:50
Decision.
58:51
But what is it?
58:52
Being ready is a decision, not a feeling.
58:55
Yes.
58:56
Yeah.
58:57
Love that.
58:58
Mike Drop.
58:59
Thank you so much, Nat, for coming in.
59:00
Such an incredible conversation.
59:01
And God, every time I talk to you, I just, like, such profound wisdom.
59:02
Oh, love it.
59:03
I love it.
59:04
I love it.
59:05
Thanks for having me.
59:06
Thank you so much.
59:07
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59:08
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