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Why Old Estate Plans Become Dangerous Over Time · The Legal Exchange

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Power
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: as a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: I'm joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: How are you today, Todd, I'm never better in you.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I am great? Thank you. What do you have for
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: us this week?
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Couple of cases? Good ones. We got on a pellet
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: court case out of Connecticut. I like to call it.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Undue influence and AI don't really mix, so well, well, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: you'll have to see how this plays out. It's obviously
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  Speaker 3: it's an undue influence case, but it ended up going
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  Speaker 3: awry because they used AI to quote cases that don't exist.
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  Speaker 3: Oh man, but that isn't really the whole point of this.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: The point of this is that they actually did good planning.
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  Speaker 3: Revocable trusts were involved, and yet challenges arose and you'll
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  Speaker 3: see how how your trust planning can really can really
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  Speaker 3: help you. So it's a good case. Actually, then we
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: head over to Tennessee. We got an appellate court case there.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: Second marriage, red flag right, durable powers of attorney and
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  Speaker 3: confidential relationships? Does having one create a confidential relationship? What
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  Speaker 3: if you've never exercised or used the power of appointment?
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  Speaker 3: Does that matter? And of course it's a second marriage
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  Speaker 3: with guess what involved for planning just a will? Really,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: if you have a second marriage, you're doing just a will.
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  Speaker 3: Got to really think that through. So, folks, some good cases.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: We're gonna have some good more tips and lessons than
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  Speaker 3: perhaps the outcome being the important part. We can learn
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: a lot from these cases, and you can learn a
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: lot from our guide this month. Estate planning potholes to avoid. Really,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: just think about what you've never done your planning. If
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: you've done your planning in both situations, this guide is
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: for you. It'll show you things to look at in
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: your plan that you might need to change, and if
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: you've not done your planning, it'll help you get going.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Like what, Oh, I don't need a plan, I've got
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: a will, I don't have enough money to do in
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: a state planning trust. I'm fine, No, I have a
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: nominee realty trust. You hear you? Hear these questions, folks, Right,
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: I've got I'm relocating. Does that matter? I got I
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: got second marriage, I lost a spouse. All things to
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: think about when you're doing it on Please, as I
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: said earlier, don't rely on a nominee realty trust as
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: your entire estate plan. All things to think about when
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: you're doing your planning, and things to look at your
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: existing plan four to see if you've got a hole
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: in it, Call and get the guide pot Estate planning
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Potholes to Avoid eight six six eight four eight five
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  Speaker 3: six ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot Com again
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  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
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  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com and always go to
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  Speaker 3: our Instagram page Cushing Dolan PC for lots more information.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I want you to know that I'm onto you. You
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: are work, yes, because you said the results aren't really
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: the important part. It's the lessons we can learn along
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: the way, which means you're gonna leave us hanging for
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: one of these stories.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I know.
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  Speaker 3: Now, will you stick around? We'll see if you're right.
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  Speaker 3: All right, So off to Connecticut. So we have Betty
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  Speaker 3: and Ed. They execute identical revocable trusts. Sounds great, you
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  Speaker 3: know during life they they did that, and of course
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  Speaker 3: at death they became irrevocable. Makes sense. Ed died first
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  Speaker 3: in two thousand and nine. Betty, after losing their daughter,
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  Speaker 3: amended her trust to make her son Bruce the sole
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  Speaker 3: remainder beneficiary. Probably you didn't have to do that, It
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  Speaker 3: probably would have worked out anyway. But apparently she did
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  Speaker 3: have to do that because her daughter, Patricia, who died,
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  Speaker 3: had two kids, Laurie and Mark. So these were grandchildren
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  Speaker 3: who decided to sue to compel Betty and Bruce to
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  Speaker 3: do an accounting on the trust. Wow, it's not a
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  Speaker 3: good idea super grand it's not a good idea to
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  Speaker 3: sue grandma living when Grandma's still alive, right, I know
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  Speaker 3: this is what happens, right and Betty Basically Grandma Betty said,
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  Speaker 3: you know, I'm the sole trustee, I'm the sole donor
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  Speaker 3: of the trust. I'm beneficiary and basically and during my life,
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  Speaker 3: that's what I am. And you're not entitled to anything
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  Speaker 3: at this point, airs until you're dead, which is a
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  Speaker 3: true statement. Betty then died in twenty twenty three. Well,
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  Speaker 3: litigation then continued and the two grandkids asserted that Bruce
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  Speaker 3: exerted undue influence over Betty to so the amendment that
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  Speaker 3: was made should be no good. Well, the court approved
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  Speaker 3: Bruce's request for a summary judgment meaning go away, grandkids,
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  Speaker 3: stating that the claims they were having to file were
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  Speaker 3: time barred. You waited too long, okay. Plus you know,
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  Speaker 3: we never really saw any evidence of undue influence that
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  Speaker 3: I could see in the case. Well, they still aren't happy,
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  Speaker 3: so they appealed, and the appeal was dismissed by the
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  Speaker 3: appellate court, basically saying that the attorney that they hired
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  Speaker 3: misused AI and cited a bunch of care that didn't exist,
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  Speaker 3: causing the court to waste time, causing opposing counsel to
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  Speaker 3: spend countless hours trying to respond to a brief with
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  Speaker 3: fake cases.
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  Speaker 2: So you gotta fact check clod and Grock.
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  Speaker 3: But yeah, you got you gotta be you gotta be knowledgeable.
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  Speaker 3: It's not it's it's a co pilot. It's not a pilot. Anyways.
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  Speaker 3: The point here isn't that that AI is the problem.
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  Speaker 3: The point here is that, wow, what do they What
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  Speaker 3: can we learn from this? Right? I mean, I'm I
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  Speaker 3: think the outcome was correct. What I love here is that, hey,
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  Speaker 3: they did revocable trusts, and their revocable trust did exactly
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: what they're supposed to do. Yep, Mom and Dad, Grandma
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  Speaker 3: and grandpa are in charge until they die. Nothing wrong
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: with that. We always make our clients first in time
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  Speaker 3: and first and right all the time. This is a
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  Speaker 3: good planning that they did. Right, they would have avoided probate.
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  Speaker 3: They would have likely provided upon death of Ed that
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  Speaker 3: a marital and a remainder share would have been set up.
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  Speaker 3: This would have been sheltering more assets from estate taxes,
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  Speaker 3: obviously more for the kids if that's the case. So
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  Speaker 3: you know, when when surviving spouse Betty dies, there's even
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  Speaker 3: less taxes do yep, I'm sure all of that would
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  Speaker 3: have been built in. However, the marital share would have
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  Speaker 3: said language like income to spouse, which is Betty, and
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  Speaker 3: principal only to Betty. So the grandkids are really not
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  Speaker 3: beneficiaries yet anyway, right, the remainders share would have said
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  Speaker 3: income to Betty, the surviving spouse, principal to the surviving spouse,
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  Speaker 3: and the kids of all generations. So even in his trust,
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  Speaker 3: the remainder share would have made the grandkids, you know,
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  Speaker 3: contingent beneficiaries, I think at best at that point.
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  Speaker 2: Well, recipients of grandma's generosity, if they hadn't come at
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  Speaker 2: her right right, right.
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  Speaker 3: So they were. This was designed really to take care
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: of each other first, then the kids later bloodline planning.
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  Speaker 3: It could have said equally to the kids if living otherwise,
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  Speaker 3: grandkids till thirty. So we've got her revocable trust, completely revocable,
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  Speaker 3: she's in charge. His is irrevocable, but still kind of
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  Speaker 3: put her in a place where she's trustee and she's
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  Speaker 3: the beneficiary. The other ones kind of contingent beneficiaries. Not
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  Speaker 3: anything wrong with that now, So that being the case,
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  Speaker 3: let's focus on the husband's trust. That's irrevocable, and they
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  Speaker 3: didn't mention it here, but I'm going to bring it up,
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  Speaker 3: you know, in the husband's trust. In our trust, anyway
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  Speaker 3: that we do, we would have given the power of
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  Speaker 3: limited power of appointment to the spouse, And therefore Betty
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  Speaker 3: could have actually changed the beneficiaries of her late husband's
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  Speaker 3: trust equally or not among kids of all generations. Therefore,
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  Speaker 3: she could have even removed the grandkids from beneficiaries of
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  Speaker 3: her husband's trust. Now I'm not sure that was done here.
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  Speaker 3: It doesn't mention that right, but that's nice of her.
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  Speaker 3: If she didn't do it right and she had the
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  Speaker 3: power or to do.
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  Speaker 2: It, I would have done it lickety split.
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  Speaker 3: So, folks, I think you need to understand that in
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  Speaker 3: our trust, when we do that for people, we even
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  Speaker 3: give the surviving spouse the power to change beneficiaries after
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  Speaker 3: one spouse dies, but again limited to kids of all generations.
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  Speaker 3: You can't, you know, add cousin Vinnie after the fact.
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  Speaker 3: So so here I think that's just a very nice
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  Speaker 3: thing that she did. So, but again, great planning I
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  Speaker 3: think was done here and It actually just shows that
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  Speaker 3: it planning works and there was no undue influence. So
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  Speaker 3: I don't I don't look at this and say that that,
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  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, they didn't pursue the undue influence. I
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  Speaker 3: don't see anything here. And it is a little strange
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  Speaker 3: that she wanted to disinherit her her two grandkids.
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  Speaker 2: But that may have happened.
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  Speaker 3: That's her wish. That's her wish, right it. You know,
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  Speaker 3: it doesn't just because Bruce got everything doesn't mean that
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  Speaker 3: it's automatically undue influence. So, folks, that's the case here.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: So when you are doing your planning, call and get
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: the guide. It's about potholes to avoid when doing your
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: estate planning. Or if you've already done your planning, maybe
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: there's some potholes in it. You'll find them when you
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: look at this guide and you could tweak it eight
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six ninety nine or
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: go to our website Legal exchange show dot com.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutski, a partner with the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got much
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: more to come when we return to the Legal Exchange
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Long term care costs can reach thousands of dollars per
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  Speaker 1: month and can put a serious strain on your savings.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: The experts at Cushing and Dolan often see families caught
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: off guard by that reality. Without the right plan in place,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: those costs can quickly eat through a lifetime of your
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: hard work. But here's the shocker. Many estate plans don't
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: protect your assets from those expenses. The right strategy may
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: involve specific types of trusts designed to help protect your
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: assets timing matters. Cushing and Dolan has a brand new
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  Speaker 1: Long term care costs can reach thousands of dollars per
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: month and can put a serious strain on your savings.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: The experts at Cushing and Dolan often see families caught
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: off guard by that reality. Without the right plan in place,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: those costs can quickly eat through a lifetime of your
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: hard work. But here's the shocker. Many estate plans don't
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: protect your assets from those expenses. The right strategy may
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: involve specific types of trusts designed to help protect your assets,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: but timing matters. Cushing and Dolan has a brand new
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: guide called Detour a Head estate planning Potholes to Avoid.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: It breaks down some of the most common and costly
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: mistakes people make and explains how to help protect your assets,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: your family and your future. Call eight sixty six eight
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: four eight five six ninet nine to get your free
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: copy today. That's eight sixty six eight four eight five
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  Speaker 1: six nine nine, or you can request the guide online
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky, an
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  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong advisory group,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a masters in taxation.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Where we headed, now, Todd.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: How about over to Tennessee Yeah, Pellet court case there.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: Second marriage, red flag, That's what I always say. So
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: we have Ronald who died in July thirtieth of twenty twenty,
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: survived by kids from a prior marriage. Okay, wife Ingrid
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: still living second marriage. Jeff, Ron's son was executor of
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: the will. On April twenty twenty two, Jeff, whose executor
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: of the will, filed a complaint against Ingrid for undue
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: influence over Ron, remember Ingrid was the wife by adding
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: her name to a joint account with Ron, and that
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: a confidential relationship existed when Ron made Ingrid his second
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: wife power of attorney. None of that seems bad so far,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: just so you know, standard staff. Yeah, Ingrid, the wife
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: said she never used the power of attorney ever, and
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: denied that Ron lacked capacity to understand the consequences of
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: naming her as a joint owner on the account. Ron
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: also made gifts to his kids before he died. Of course,
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Jeff is not objecting to any of that. He's happy
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: about those.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: He was confident those gifts.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: So you see, Dad's trying to take care of kids
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: a little bit in advance. Right. Evidence did show, however,
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: that Ron was declining towards the end of life, and
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: that he is the one who actually signed the documents
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: creating the joint account. So it wasn't done by power
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: of attorney. Okay, I'm so far, I'm fine. The trial
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: court dismissed Jeff's complaints Jeff's the kid, remember, finding that
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Ron and Ingrid did not have a confidential relationship and
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Jeff failed to prove any undue influence. So far, so
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: good for Ingrid. I think it's the right result.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Jeff of course appealed, and the appellate court affirmed the
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: trial court's decision, basically stating that the unexercised power of
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: attorney does not create a confidential relationship. After all, she
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: never used it, and there was no evidence that in
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Grid ever exercised dominion in control over Ron. She was
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: simply a caregiver and basically trying to effectuate his wishes.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: But nevertheless, as a joint owner on that account, she
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: is going to get that asset because it will pass
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: to her outside of probate automatically. So you know, well,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: I think the result is probably correct. Not real happy
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: with the planning that was done. I think the planning
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: could have been done a lot better by Ron to
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: provide for both Ingrid and his kids, way better than
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: he did by planning period by planning period, which we're
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: going to come back to that in a minute. And
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: again when we talk about the guide we're given away
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: this month, folks, I mean potholes to avoid and when
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: you're doing your estate planning. This is one right, it's listed.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: One of the things in here is what if I
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: get remarried, red flag, big pothole. Right, got to do
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: some planning, you know. I also want you to say, well,
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: other things to think about. Right, what if I'm relocating
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: huge deal, Right, You got to really make sure your
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: plans in order if you relocate. Right, A lot of
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: times you can keep the trust, but you should change
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: the other basic documents. Right. What. I don't want you
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: to run through life thinking that you know your will
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: is all you need. We saw that from our old case.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Will's not enough. Don't rely on a nominee realty trust. Please,
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: don't think that you don't have enough assets that you'll
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: think you need planning. It doesn't take much, but whatever
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: you have is important to you. Folks. There's so many
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: things that come up during this planning process. And if
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: you've done your planning, get this guide, find out what
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: they are, what those holes are. If you haven't done it, well,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: what's really going to help you get started? Eight six
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: Exchange Show dot com again eight six six eight four
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: eight five six nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: And you can always go to Cushing Dolan PC our
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Instagram page for much more information. Well what can we
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: learn from this? A lot? I think second marriage, folks,
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: right in the guide it's a big red flag, you know.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: So why was there not more estate planning done here
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: than just a will? Right? Why rely on joint accounts
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: which is what he did here? When you could have
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: done way more planning. This is just a red flag
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: to do estate planning. The trust here, if let's say
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: they put together even a joint revocable family trust that
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: would become irrevocable on the first death. Remember ye, even
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: a trust here, right, you could have avoided the probate process,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: which again they're smacking that you could have provided for
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Ingrid the second spouse here, you could allowed her to
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: maybe live in a house, assuming you know, a house existed.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: You could have provided for her to stay in that
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: house and the and the whole and all the while
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: not owning the house, right, just just living there. She
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: could have maintained, uh, you know, paid the bills and
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: the taxes, maintained the property, but not own it. She
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: could also have had like income paid out of the
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: trust investment accounts for her out of the bank accounts
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: for her, again enjoying but not owning this stuff. Right.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: You could have even given her, you know, some kind
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: of limited access to principle. So again I think a
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: spouse could be getting actually more assets than they then
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: then maybe he left her in this in this joint
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: account situation, and then upon her death you could name
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: you know, his kids from the first marriage. As to
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: say here, Jeff, I think Jeff was the guy. Right,
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: you could be getting even more assets, you know, from
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: from this situation, providing for your spouse and leaving more
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: assets you know for the kids from the first marriage.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: So even here, remember you could have even made gifts
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: like he did here too. You could have said in
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: the trust, I want a certain amount of assets to
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: go out to my kids right away, even if I'm
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: survived by my spouse. You could do that and then
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: hold back other assets for the spouse to enjoy and use,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: but again not own, not own. So the trust planning
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: to me is in second marriages is really a given.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: And even that todd like how you treat people that
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: that surviving spouse that's not your parent. I mean, she
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: could have decided to leave whatever is left to his kids.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: You think she's going to do that now after they
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: took it to court.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: No, yeah, you're right. If you'd treated her nicely along
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: the way, even though there was a joint account there,
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: you might have been able to That's.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Exactly I've seen that happen time and time again.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I think we talk about all the bad things,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: but I've seen plenty of surviving spouses say no, I'm
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: going to honor absolutely what my wish, what my husband's
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: wishes were, And the integrity of those people is is great.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: It's great to take them to court.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Don't sue me, but focus on the joint accounts for
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: a minute. Now, remember they did avoid probate. They do
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: go directly to the surviving spouse, and that's obviously how
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: and why Ingrid got some money. But be careful, remember,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: don't think we'll expand on this. What if you're not
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: getting divorced or it's not a second marriage. Don't use
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: joint accounts and throw kids' names on it, because you
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: could accidentally disinherit other kids. And even here we use
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: convenience language and in our wills all the time to
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: prevent this accidental disinheritance. So even here, if they had
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: done an estate plan and let's say this joint account
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: did exist, still very possible to have that even though
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: you've got trust in place. But if you had the
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: trust in place, the convenience language in the will, which
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: is all poor overwill, would say eat the joint accounts
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: as if they're not joined yep, and that they are
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: now a probate asset. So so what one item goes
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: to probate and then it would go into the will
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: of the deceit. In this case, ron the will would
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: have been a poor over will would have taken that
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: joint account and put it into the trust. Again, the
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: trust providing for the family. When I say the family,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: the spouse and the kids, so it wouldn't have had
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: to go just to the to the spouse. It could
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: have been still used to benefit the whole family. So
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: even convenience language and the will could have saved this problem. Folks.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: The whole idea is there are potholes out there when
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: you're doing your estate plan learn what they are, get
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: the guide, avoid them, do your planning. The planning here
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: was just so weak second marriages. Don't let that happen.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Do your planning eight six six eight four eight five
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: six ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com and
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: you can download the guide there.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to the
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Long term care costs can reach thousands of dollars per
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  Speaker 6: This is Chuck from the Armstrong Advisory Group. If your
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  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan Indoor Armstrong Advisory may
• 26:42
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• 26:45
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• 27:20
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange and it's time for
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: ask Todd the segment where Todd will answer your questions
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: about anything and everything that's included in the estate planning process.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Ron in Freetown, mass
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And Ron writes, my wife is currently in a rehab
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: facility after having fallen recently, and it's likely that she
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: will not be able to return home due to her
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: memory issues. We haven't done any planning to protect our assets,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: but we do have a revocable trust, a power of attorney,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: and a healthcare proxy. Our home is worth four hundred thousand.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: We have around eight hundred thousand in i ras split evenly,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: and other investments in savings of around four hundred thousand.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: What are my options now?
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: So good news here. Actually this is sort of a
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: last minute situation for him. So the fact that they're
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: married is really going to help. Yeah in this case.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: See if people think getting married is bad, this is
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: a big help in this case.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Maybe men do so.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So because they're married, we're really focusing here on
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: just last minute nursing home planning. That's the question, And
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: can we get her, perhaps on medicaid and save the
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: assets for him.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Because they have one point six million in assets. It's
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of assets, including the.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: House, including the house. Yeah, so we'll take the house
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: and that's four hundred thousand, right, yep, So you'll get
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: to keep the house because the healthy spouse is allowed
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: to live in the house, and we can transfer the spouse,
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: all the whole house to the spouse we've got we've
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: got a power of attorney, so we can just use
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: the power of attorney to transfer her interest.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: To him without any anything.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: Or no look back, nothing. So now we've gotten at
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: least one chunk out of the way. He's also, as
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: a healthy spouse, allowed to keep about one hundred and
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: sixty thousand for easy numbers, So that's a piece of
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: one of the four hundred thousand dollars buckets.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's about a million, so million fifty or
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: a million six forty.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Left, So say a million, call it a million dollars left. Right,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: So now what do you do, Well, everything else would
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: be considered the six spouses assets and you'd be denied medicaid.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: So when you go to the nursing homes and they say, well,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: we'll help you apply for free. That's what they'll end up.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: They'll say, when you spend for once you spend down
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: that million, we've concluded that you'll be eligible. Where that's
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: not the answer, folks. Transfers between spouses are permissible. So
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: again we have the power of attorney, good that they
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: have it, and we will take the money, let's say
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: joint accounts or even in her name and transfer the
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: whole million to him. Now, in essence, that doesn't help,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: right if you just stop there, that doesn't help because
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: he now has more assets than one hundred and sixty
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: grand that he's allowed to keep. So we need to
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: take that million in convert it into something that is
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: not an asset. So in this case, depending on how
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Oldie is, assuming this works, we would be able to
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: buy a Medicaid annuity at that moment and take the
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: asset and convert it to an income stream for him,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: and magically that goes away. And now he's worth one
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: hundred sixty thousand plus a house. What is s eligible
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: for medicaid?
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: What do you do with her ira? Because she's got
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: four hundred thousand in iras and you can't transfer that.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: To him, right, Well, you can, and in this case
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: we would because you have to liquidate the IRA and
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: pay the income tax. Right, so when you withdraw it
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: and transfer it, it's going to be income taxable. But
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: you know, if I have to pay tax on four
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars, maybe it's one hundred and twenty Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: maybe if you even the events one hundred, I'm going
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: to spend one hundred to say, one hundred thousand dollars
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: at sixteen seventeen thousand a month. Doesn't take long to
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: get there, right, So you have to look at what
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: you're saving and how long she's going to live. Whether
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: or not that made sense, you have to look at
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: all the facts.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so she's going to be in there a long time.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: She's got memory issues, but not necessarily physical physical issues.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: So you would probably pull the trigger on that. It's
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: a million dollar IRA, maybe not, but at four hundred
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: thousand dollar IRA, I'd run the tax numbers and probably
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: end up pulling the trigger on.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: So you spend one hundred grand to save a million,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: that's worth it.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: That's worth it, sir, certainly worth it. That's the way
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: to look at it Susan exactly. Folks. Back to planning though,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: when when this is someone who didn't plan. Obviously, do
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: your planning, and if you do your planning, you might
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: not run into these little potholes, right, And that's what
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: this guide is all about. Things to think about when
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: you're doing your estate plan right, life events that turn up.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm remarrying, I've lost a spouse. That's a
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: big one. Right, You forget that, you lose a spouse,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: what do you do? Go in and talk to the lawyer.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: You're relocating, you go in and talk to your lawyer.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Don't rely on joint accounts, don't rely on a will,
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: don't rely on nominee realty trust. There's so many things
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: to think about when you're doing your estate plan. Call
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: and get the guide Potholes to Avoid eight six six
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine to nine or Legal
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Exchange Show dot com again eight six six eight four
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: com downloaded there and you can always go to our
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Cushing dolein PC Instagram page for much more information.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Great. Our last question comes from Sharon in Worcester, mass
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: and Sharon writes, my parents created an irrevocable trust thirteen
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: years ago. I used your tip and check the tax bill,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: but the trust isn't listed. My parents are. I found
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: a copy of the ded they signed in two thousand
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: and three, but it doesn't look like it was ever
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: recorded by the attorney. Is all this time wasted? Is
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: there anything we can do to backtrack the transfer date?
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Ooh? How do people get themselves in this kind of trouble?
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I guess the lawyers fault here. Lawyers recorded the d
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: you would think, so, does that.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Mean they've wasted the past thirteen years?
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you would think that. And in fact, I've had
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: a a fair hearing where I actually had somebody applying
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: for medicaid. We didn't forget to record the d just
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: for the record. It was helping out another attorney who
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: had found this problem. In fact, that attorney didn't even
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: do the problem. It was an existing attorney who had
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: passed away that did it. So the bottom line here
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: is that when I went to court for this, the
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: whole thing the state said was, let's say that this
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: attorney now finds this deed and says, I'm going to
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: put it on record today. What you should do by
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: the way, doesn't matter that it's twenty twenty six. Put
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: it on record, and in our case, we put it
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: on record. But let's say she goes to the nursing
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: home the next day. The state's going to say, oh,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: the five year waiting period started the day you recorded
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: the deed. That's what they told us. Now, in our case,
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: there happened to be a trust in place that had
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: rental property that had an ID number for the trust
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: and a bank account. The bank account was receiving rent
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: they were filing tax returns. Just so you know the facts.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: So in this case, what you have to tell them
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: is when I went to the hearing, they said, that's
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: when the look back period starts to run. I said,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: show me the regulation that says that's when the look
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: back period starts to run. Of course, crickets. They couldn't
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: find one. I then pull out the mass A Chusetts
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: real estate law rules. Yep, the Massachusetts laws governing real
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: estate say that if you have a executed deed, which
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: they clearly had two thousand and three says right here,
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: and you had delivery, meaning the person who got it
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: got the deed, then title transfers. It goes on to say,
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: recording the deed is a ceremonial event. It has nothing
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: to do with transferring title. And we won the case
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: because in our case it was easy. We were able
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: to say, look, here's the deed. How do we know
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: we had delivery? Trustee knew we had delivery, got a
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: bank account opened up, the ID number, received, rent, filed
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: tax returns, had to know.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Signed the trust and all that stuff.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, clearly the delivery. So here at least put it
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: on record and hope she stays out of the nursing home.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: But if she does go into the nursing home, I
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: know we can win that battle. Right and say, the
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: five year clock did not start to run in twenty
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: twenty six, It started in two thousand and three.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Great, So how do you know, Todd like she obviously
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: used the tip of looking at the real estate tax bill?
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: How long does it take to see that reflect it?
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Because it's not.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: Right away right, towns are all different folks, But it
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: could take up to a year. This is something's wrong here.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: Obviously it wasn't recorded, so about a year, I wouldn't
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: you know? Give it a year sometimes.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: And if someone sees their kids' names on it.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: It's usually trustee of the trust, so it doesn't mean
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: the kids on doesn't mean the kids own it. Folks,
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: so think that through folks potholes to avoid, call and
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: get the guide. Learn what to do and what not
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: to do as you approach your estate planning eight six
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine, or Legal Exchange
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: Show dot com again eight six six eight four eight
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: five six nine to nine.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you'd like to ask Todd,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the Legal
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Long term care costs can reach thousands of dollars per
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: month and can put a serious strain on your savings.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: The experts at Cushing and Dolan often see families caught
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: off guard by that reality. Without the right plan in place,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: those costs can quickly eat through a lifetime of your
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: hard work. But here's the shocker. Many estate plans don't
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: protect your assets from those expenses. The right strategy may
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: involve specific types of trusts designed to help protein your assets,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: but timing matters. Cushing and Dolan has a brand new
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: guide called Detour Ahead Estate Planning Potholes to Avoid. It
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: breaks down some of the most common and costly mistakes
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: people make and explains how to help protect your assets,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: your family, and your future. Call eight sixty six eight
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: four eight five six ninet nine to get your free
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: copy today. That's eight sixty six eight four eight five
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: six nine nine, or you can request the guide online
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: at Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding with paid
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: for in the views expressed are solely those of Cushing
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan into Armstrong Advisory may contact
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: you offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other and are not
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: affiliated HI.
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. One
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: of the biggest challenges in financial planning is seeing the
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: full picture When your investments are spread across multiple accounts,
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: it can be difficult to know how much you actually
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: have and whether your strategy is really working. You might
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: be taking on more risk than you realize or missing
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: opportunities to better align your portfolio. Bringing your accounts together
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: can help create clarity so you can see your total
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: AASTA that's your true allocation, and make more informed decisions
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: about your financial future. Our new guide is called Consolidating
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: Investment Accounts. It walks you through how to get organized,
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: simplify your strategy, and build a more complete financial plan.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Call eight hundred three nine three four zero zero one
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: to get your free copy today. That's eight hundred three
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: nine three four zero zero one, or you can request
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: the guide by visiting Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: advisory services. It's important to update your estate plan as
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: changes occur in your life, or you can wind up
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: with significant issues that may affect your future. Get Kushian
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Dolan's new guide called Detour a head estate planning Potholes
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: to avoid Call eight six six eight four eight five
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: six nine nine and get your copy today or request
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: it online at Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: was paid for in The views expressed are solely those
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: of Cushion, Dolanishing and Dolan into Armstrong Advisory may contact
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: you offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other and are not affiliated. Hi.
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: I'm Michael Valila, adjuedent of the Disabled American Veterans Department
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: in Massachusetts. The DAV of Massachusetts provides thousands of hours
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: of voluntary services at our VA medical centers and soldiers homes,
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: and is the only DAV department in the country to
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: lead a veterans housing initiative for both single veterans and
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: those with families. These programs are critical to serving our
• 40:27
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• 40:29
  Speaker 5: great American heroes by making a donation today. Please visit
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: DAV fivek dot Boston. That's DAV fivek dot Boston.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: you are a loved one needs a nursing homestay, call
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Todd right now at eight sixty six eight four eight
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: five six ninet nine and let him make sure your
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: assets are protected. That's eight six six eight for eight
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, Or visit him online at Legal
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Exchange show dot com.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm joined,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner with a law
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: So Todd I met this past week with one of
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: our mutual clients. Her husband passed away recently and they
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: had done one joint irrevocable trust well over ten years ago,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: so well pasted the five year look back period. He
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: passed away, and now she asked, what do I do now?
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: So they have their irrevocable trust, she has a home,
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: she has a rental property. He had an IRA with
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: her listed as the beneficiary. So what does she have
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: to do? This is one of these life events that's
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: listed in your guide. What to do when you lose
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: a spouse.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: What's the value of all this?
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, so the home is about a million, Yeah, the
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: rental properties around four hundred. In the IRI is about
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: the same, and some inconsequential.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: Bank bank accounts that were joint small.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Joint small one one small irrevocable trust bank account that
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: caught the rental income.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: So the entire estate minus the miscellaneous stuff is about
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: one to eight. Yeah, so under two definitely below two two, folks,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: is important today because remember in twenty twenty three and
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: the state tax law changed in mass making the exemption
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: two million per person. So that's why we're focusing on
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: the two million dollar number here. So let's focus mainly
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: on the trust because the IRA, although is part of
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: his estate, just is going to go to the spouse. Yes,
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: that is easy for that. But when you add up
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: his IRA plus one half of what's included in the trust,
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: it's less than a two million. So we're good. Why
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: one half? Yeah?
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Why one half? I'm curious about that.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: So, folks, we do shows on the air regarding joint
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: revocable trusts. Yep, they have general powers of appointment. They
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: are phenomenal. We did a whole program on joint trust
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: and I still can't say enough about them because they
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: cause full inclusion on the first death, meaning not half.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: But with a joint irrevocable trust, you are not allowed
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: to put in the document a general power of appointment.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: It's the general power of appointment that causes the full inclusion.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: But if you had a general power of appointment, meaning
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: you could appoint the assets in the trust to yourself
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: from a nursing home perspective, they would say, okay, well
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: then do that and then they would be available for
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: the nursing home. So we can't have a general power
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: of appointment in the irrevocable trust, which means assuming these
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: were jointly owned, which they probably were when they were
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: contributed to the trust. So husband put half in, wife
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: put half in. In this case, who died husband died, yes,
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: So when husband died, we now look at the one
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: point four million dollars that's in the trust, divide it
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: by two. So seven hundred thousand is now considered part
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: of his estate, not probate estate, but includable in his estate.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: That's okay, he's well below two million dollars. There will
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: be no death tax due and we will then allocate
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: half the assets to the remainder share of this trust
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: to be forever sheltered from future death taxes. When the
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: wife dies home run there and no probate and still
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: protected from the nursing home. Nothing changes for the wife
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: she lives on. But if she wants to sell the
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: rental property for four hundred thousand, and let's assume they
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: had it a long time and they fully depreciated it half,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: so their basis is zero. If they sold it before
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: he died, the gain would be four hundred thousand dollars.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: At least now she can sell it and the gain
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: would be the basis excuse me, would be increased by.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Half, So her her cost basis would now be two
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: hundred thousand, half of the value on his day to death.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: Correct, got it? Really the Yeah, her cost base is
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: the trust cost basis the same thing. So now if
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: they sell it, it would be four hundred minus two
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: hundred or two hundred of gain. And since it's not
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: their home, it's all taxable, so two hundred times, you know,
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: twenty eight point eight percent. You're not going to run
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: into the Massachusetts millionaires. Attack's not going to any of
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: that problem. So right, so good good, still pretty good deal.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: And just quickly if she wanted to continue renting it,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: can she start depreciating it again because she now has
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: new cost basis.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Sure can nice And maybe she wants to do that
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: and then get another half step up later when she
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: dies the kids sell it and have nice income coming
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: from the trust to live on. Not a bad idea, folks.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: These irrevocable trusts extremely flexible. I think that's wasn't Susan's point,
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: but I can't help but emphasize how much flexibility and
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: freedom the surviving spouse has over these assets. But folks,
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: there's plenty of potholes out there when you're doing your
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: estate planning, and you need to think about them. Either
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: if you are starting your planning or if you've done
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: your planning, look at your guide and see if you
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: have any of these holes in them, and maybe you
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: can fix them. Like what you know, life events, I'm relocating,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: How do I fix my estate plan? I've I've lost,
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: I've got divorced. What do I do? What if I
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: have lost a spouse like in this example, and if
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: I need to you know, what do I do? Then?
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: So I got a nominee realty trust. That's all I need.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: What if my estate plans ten or fifteen years old?
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Should I look at it? Folks? There's so many things
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: that you'll learn in this guide that will help you
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: with your estate planning. Call and get it eight six
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine to nine or
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six six eight
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: dot com. You can download it right there and always.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: You can go to our Instagram page Cushing Dolan PC
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: for more info.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: So that was a great explanation about what happens with
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: the assets in the trust. How about the trust itself?
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Does anything need to change with that? Or you know,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: he was her power of attorney, he was her healthcare proxy.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: What does she have to do kind of for the
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: basic legal documents basically the whole estate plan.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, great point. When you lose a spouse, you should
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: always call your estate planning attorney because you just don't
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: know what you don't know, but intuitively and I can
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: tell you what happens all the time. So we've been
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: at it thirty forty years and the firm just gets
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: calls regularly. Right because people are doing right, and so
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: people know to do this, they just pick up the
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: phone and call. And then what do you do? I mean,
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: and this is why you call, because you don't in
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: your mind say, oh, well, I'll just you know, this
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: is a joint trust. But what if you had two trusts? Oh,
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: I'll just take everything out of the decease spouses trust
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: and put it into the surviving spouse's trust. First of all,
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: you can't do that, but if you did it, you
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: violated a lot of fiduciary rules. But it would also
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: ruin the estate plan. So you certainly don't want that
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: to happen. And so I think what happened is you're
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: going to get a new ID number for the trust
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: because it's now not a grant or trust anymore. You're
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: going to file different income tax returns for the trust.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: You're going to retitle some of the money the real
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: estate in this case, to the buckets. There's that marital
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: share and remainder share that are built into your trust,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: and you have to then retitle assets based on values
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: equal to up to the two million dollar dollar estate
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: tax exemption in the remainder share and spill over the
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: rest into the q TIP share up to the federal exemption.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: So you want to make sure you create those buckets
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: and fund them for the surviving spouse, Yeah, to enjoy
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: and use. So oh, and you're right, you're the surviving
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: spouse has got a will, a healthcare proxy, and a
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: power of attorney naming the deceased spouse as the primary.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: If I dociary, now she has a backup on those, Yeah,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: but does she need to do new documents to make
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: a backup to the now because the backup moves up in.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: But there's only one now.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Right, So there's only one, So if something happened to
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: that person, So do you want to do new ones
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: of those?
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: I do? I tell people, why wouldn't you? I mean,
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: especially with a healthcare proxy, right, because the backup could
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: become the primary what you would want, But then you
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: have no backup. And remember, with a healthcare proxy, if
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: you get the person that's there just freezes and can't
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: make a decis vision emotionally, it's good to have a backup,
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: so you know, not to have one is not a
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: good idea. Yeah, okay, so I would do that, and
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: I would say the same thing with your power of
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: attorney your will. You're just always good to have someone
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: there just in case you don't. You don't you know,
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: something happens, So folks always good to get information when
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: someone dies, call and get the guide, learn what the
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: potholes are to avoid well planning, or if you've done
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: your planning eight six six eight four eight five six
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: nine to nine or Legal exchange show dot com, you
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: can download it there again one more time eight six
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine to nine or
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Todd Letski from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Always a pleasure. Thank you.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group. We thank you for joining us today and
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: we'll be back again next week on the Legal Exchange
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Long term care costs can reach thousands of dollars per
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: month and can put a serious train on your savings.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: The experts at Cushing and Dolan often see families caught
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: off guard by that reality. Without the right plan in place,
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: those costs can quickly eat through a lifetime of your
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: hard work. But here's the shocker. Many estate plans don't
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: protect your assets from those expenses. The right strategy may
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: involve specific types of trusts designed to help protect your assets,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: but timing matters. Cushing and Dolan has a brand new
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: guide called Detour a head estate planning Potholes to avoid.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: It breaks down some of the most common and costly
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: mistakes people make and explains how to help protect your assets,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: your family, and your future. Call eight sixty six eight
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: four eight five six ninet nine to get your free
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: copy today. That's eight sixty six eight four eight five
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: six ninety nine, or you can request the guide online
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: at Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding with paid
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: for in the views expressed are solely those of Cushing
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan Intoor Armstrong Advisory may contact
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: you offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other and are not
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: affiliated HI.
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: This is Chuck from the Armstrong Advisory Group. If your
• 52:03
  Speaker 6: financial life feels scattered, you're not alone. Over time, it's
• 52:06
  Speaker 6: easy to end up with accounts in different places, old
• 52:09
  Speaker 6: retirement plans, different banks, multiple apps. It's what we call
• 52:12
  Speaker 6: account sprawl. When you've got your money across the spectrum.
• 52:15
  Speaker 6: Things can get missed, like overlapping investments, and bringing everything
• 52:19
  Speaker 6: into focus allows you to spend less time tracking accounts
• 52:22
  Speaker 6: and more time making smart decisions. Our new guide is
• 52:25
  Speaker 6: called Consolidating Investment Accounts, and it may offer strategies that
• 52:29
  Speaker 6: can simplify your overall financial picture. Call eight hundred three
• 52:33
  Speaker 6: nine three for zero zero one to get your free
• 52:35
  Speaker 6: copy today. That's eight hundred three nine three for zero
• 52:39
  Speaker 6: zero one, or you can request the guide at Armstrong
• 52:42
  Speaker 6: Advisory dot com. That's Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: advisory services. It's important to update your estate plan as
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: changes occur in your life, or you can wind up
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: with significant issues that may affect your future. Get Cushion
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Dolan's new guide called Detour a head estate planning potholes
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: to avoid. Call eight six six eight four eight five
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: six nine nine and get your copy today or request
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: it online at legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: with paid for in the views expressed are solely those
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: of cushingon Dolan Cushing and Dolan Intoor. Armstrong Advisory may
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: contact you offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan
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  Speaker 1: and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other and are
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  Speaker 1: not affiliated. Hi.
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  Speaker 5: I'm Michael Valila, adjudent of the Disabled American Veterans Department
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  Speaker 5: of Massachusetts. The DAV of Massachusetts provides thousands of hours
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  Speaker 5: of voluntary services at our VA medical centers and soldiers homes,
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  Speaker 5: and is the only DAV department in the country to
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  Speaker 5: lead a veterans housing initiative for both single veterans and
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  Speaker 5: those with families. These programs are critical to serving our
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  Speaker 5: veterans and their time and need. You can help our
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  Speaker 5: great American heroes by making a donation today. Please visit
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  Speaker 5: DAV fivek dot Boston. That's DAV fivek dot Boston.