Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Charlie Puth

Transcript

Charlie Puth · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Charlie Pooth is a singer songwriter whose knowledge of
0:23
Speaker 1: pop music runs deeper than your average chart topper. He
0:27
Speaker 1: studied music production and engineering at Berkeley College of Music
0:30
Speaker 1: and first gained widespread attention in twenty fifteen with his
0:33
Speaker 1: ubiquitous single see You Again, a collaboration with Whiz Khalifa
0:37
Speaker 1: for the Furious seven soundtrack. That song earned him his
0:41
Speaker 1: first Grammy nomination. In fact, three of them since Denny's
0:45
Speaker 1: released hits like Attention, We Don't Talk Anymore, and One
0:48
Speaker 1: Call Away, while also writing and producing for other artists,
0:51
Speaker 1: including co writing and co producing Stay for the Kid,
0:54
Speaker 1: Leroy and Justin Bieber. His fourth album, his latest, Whatever's Clever,
0:59
Speaker 1: comes out next month, and, as he'll reveal in this episode,
1:02
Speaker 1: is his most honest and personal work today. On today's episode,
1:07
Speaker 1: I'll speak with Charlie about making Whatever Clever and the
1:09
Speaker 1: process of recording a song with Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins.
1:13
Speaker 1: He also discusses the sly way he convinced Kenny geta
1:16
Speaker 1: appear on the album, and sits down at the piano
1:19
Speaker 1: to demonstrate how gospel chords always have found their way
1:22
Speaker 1: into pop music, revealing the harmonic foundations that shape his songwriting.
1:30
Speaker 1: This is Broken Record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my
1:39
Speaker 1: interview with Charlie Booth at over to YouTube dot com
1:42
Speaker 1: slash Broken Record Podcast if you want to see the video.
1:46
Speaker 1: The new album is really really good.
1:48
Speaker 2: Well thanks.
1:48
Speaker 1: You went to Berkeley, Yeah, and I imagine there No,
1:52
Speaker 1: I can't tell, but like you know, I imagine there's like
1:55
Speaker 1: if you if you go to Berkeley, if you graduate
1:57
Speaker 1: from Berkeley, there's like an audience you could be focused
2:00
Speaker 1: on pleasing, if you if you're there, right, and then
2:03
Speaker 1: you come out of there and you're in the pop
2:05
Speaker 1: world and that's his whole own other audience that's might
2:09
Speaker 1: have to worry about, sure, pleasing very different. Yeah, And
2:13
Speaker 1: it seems like you somehow land somewhere between the two.
2:18
Speaker 2: Right. Well, I've always for even before I went to Berkeley,
2:22
Speaker 2: when I went to Manhattan School, and I always wanted
2:25
Speaker 2: to take what I learned in conservatory and apply it
2:28
Speaker 2: to pop music because I always just got the most
2:32
Speaker 2: visceral reaction from pop music, like listening to Lucky by
2:36
Speaker 2: Britney Spears, my all time favorite artist, like Max Martin
2:39
Speaker 2: production the drums being like sitting perfectly in the record.
2:42
Speaker 2: There's nothing better than a pop record that you can
2:45
Speaker 2: really crank up volume wise and just it won't pierce
2:49
Speaker 2: your ears because the mix is so crispy and good.
2:53
Speaker 2: But I would listen to you know, James Taylor. He
3:00
Speaker 2: I learned how to play piano by listening to Fire
3:03
Speaker 2: and Rain. And I'm listening to like a like like
3:17
Speaker 2: the intro to Mexico that he performed in like nineteen
3:20
Speaker 2: ninety three, and I'm like, this sounds is like kind
3:22
Speaker 2: of a Brazilian influence. But this guy lives in the
3:25
Speaker 2: berkshears in Massachusetts and he has a he's playing it
3:30
Speaker 2: but it's a pop song, but it sounds like Antonio
3:32
Speaker 2: Carlos Joe Beam, Like, oh, I get it. He's blending
3:36
Speaker 2: all of these different worlds together, and he is Thus
3:39
Speaker 2: James Taylor. I can blend different worlds together and be
3:43
Speaker 2: influenced by different things, work with boys, two men I've
3:45
Speaker 2: worked with James Taylor. I can work with X, Y
3:48
Speaker 2: and Z and be influenced and be Charlie Pooth, which
3:52
Speaker 2: is what I've always wanted to be. Yeah, which I
3:55
Speaker 2: finally really am.
3:57
Speaker 1: Now what do you mean by that?
3:59
Speaker 2: Meaning, I feel like I always put a front up
4:04
Speaker 2: the music, not musically but personality wise. That's why a
4:08
Speaker 2: lot of people might know my music before they know me.
4:11
Speaker 2: I never really gave them a chance to know me
4:14
Speaker 2: because I was kind of maybe growing up and trying
4:19
Speaker 2: on a lot of different hats, pretending to be a
4:22
Speaker 2: lot of different things, like dyeing my hair blonde one
4:25
Speaker 2: day and then shaving it the next day. I didn't
4:27
Speaker 2: really give people a chance to get to know me.
4:30
Speaker 1: When you're young, you don't even know yourself.
4:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, so how do you my frontal lobe developed twenty nine? Probably?
4:36
Speaker 1: How old are you now?
4:37
Speaker 2: Thirty four? So okay, relatively recent, relatively recently.
4:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, you felt the music was authentic? Do you feel
4:44
Speaker 1: the music? Yeah?
4:44
Speaker 2: I felt the music was authentic. I just thought everything
4:48
Speaker 2: else that came after it, I was fudging the truth
4:53
Speaker 2: a little bit because I was maybe not advised correctly
4:57
Speaker 2: that I needed to concoct some fake story or exaggerate
5:02
Speaker 2: this little element to get people intrigued. When all along
5:06
Speaker 2: my songs still are. People are discovering them like kids
5:10
Speaker 2: born in twenty fourteen, or discovering we don't talk anymore.
5:13
Speaker 2: For the first time and they like it just because
5:16
Speaker 2: it's a good song. They're discovering how long and attention
5:20
Speaker 2: and one call away all for the first time, just
5:22
Speaker 2: based on the music.
5:23
Speaker 1: The way that you were able to pick out James Taylor,
5:26
Speaker 1: Like what made James Taylor James Taylor? By the time
5:28
Speaker 1: you get out and you're signed to Atlantic, Like, did
5:31
Speaker 1: you feel like you could just figure out pop music?
5:33
Speaker 1: Like did it feel like I know what this is,
5:35
Speaker 1: I know how to.
5:36
Speaker 2: I knew what it was to me. I actually set
5:38
Speaker 2: out to write songs for other pop acts. I never
5:42
Speaker 2: in the back of my mind I wanted to be
5:44
Speaker 2: the artist, but I wouldn't admit that to myself, so
5:47
Speaker 2: I just kind of played a fake game of Oh,
5:49
Speaker 2: I'll just be the song. It wasn't I shouldn't say
5:52
Speaker 2: even say fake game. I wanted to write songs and
5:55
Speaker 2: hits for other artists. I just didn't realize how badly
5:58
Speaker 2: I wanted to be the artist. So I knew what
6:01
Speaker 2: it was like to be in the studio with X
6:04
Speaker 2: Y and Z and hear what they're working on and
6:07
Speaker 2: trying to improve it or come up with something similar.
6:10
Speaker 2: In that world, I got a really early glimpse on
6:13
Speaker 2: what it was like to be an artist and like
6:14
Speaker 2: what pop music was.
6:16
Speaker 1: What was your early impression.
6:18
Speaker 2: Well, I moved to la in the days of big
6:19
Speaker 2: co writes and you know, double triple sessions. Starting a
6:23
Speaker 2: session at seven o'clock in the morning after having just
6:25
Speaker 2: left the Interscope studios at five o'clock in the morning,
6:28
Speaker 2: I was like, I was grinding. So it was kind
6:31
Speaker 2: of it was high tempo and dancy and all over
6:34
Speaker 2: the place, lots of features, lots of syncopated rhythms like
6:42
Speaker 2: and that might come back one day. There's like a
6:44
Speaker 2: big nostalgic twenty sixteen trend going on right now. That's fair,
6:48
Speaker 2: that's right, But I mean that's I think the music
6:51
Speaker 2: industry changes every month now, really, yeah, it seems taste
6:55
Speaker 2: seems to change. There are artists that are popping right
7:00
Speaker 2: now that for the first time I'm not even aware
7:02
Speaker 2: of I used to be aware of everything. I don't
7:05
Speaker 2: know if that means I'm getting older what. I'm pretty
7:08
Speaker 2: keen on everything that's going on. But my friend showed
7:11
Speaker 2: me in our studies working on the other day, and
7:14
Speaker 2: she has this whole little fan base growing on kind
7:17
Speaker 2: of unusual sounding music and I was just like, wow,
7:21
Speaker 2: I maybe five years ago I would have known about that.
7:24
Speaker 2: But there's like fifteen other acts like that right now.
7:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're having a kid, right, Yeah, I hate to yeah, yeah, three,
7:30
Speaker 1: I hate to break it.
7:31
Speaker 2: Right, it might be done. My hard drive is partitioned
7:36
Speaker 2: right now, totally.
7:37
Speaker 1: Like you might be late to the party a few
7:38
Speaker 1: more times.
7:39
Speaker 2: I don't mind being late to the party because I
7:41
Speaker 2: can always show up late.
7:42
Speaker 1: That's right, That's right. Yeah, you know, I know there's
7:44
Speaker 1: a lot of people who have complaints about streaming, and
7:46
Speaker 1: there probably is a lot that is. It does create
7:49
Speaker 1: a lot of challenges. Yeah, but it does seem like
7:52
Speaker 1: one of the real benefits of streaming has been the
7:55
Speaker 1: way that people playlist things. And it's just like putting
7:57
Speaker 1: a Billy Joel song next to a you know, shod
8:01
Speaker 1: Day song, next to a Charlie Poot song next to
8:04
Speaker 1: and it's just like so everything is on the table,
8:06
Speaker 1: you know, forever for the listener.
8:07
Speaker 2: Absolutely to your point. I I was reminded of an
8:10
Speaker 2: amazing Billy Joel song the and so I don't know
8:20
Speaker 2: the lyrics to anything, and oh it's so Billy Joel,
8:35
Speaker 2: It's but I hadn't heard that song River of Dreams.
8:37
Speaker 2: I hadn't heard that album, I haven't on a CD.
8:39
Speaker 2: I just hadn't heard it in a long time, and
8:42
Speaker 2: it just showed up. It started playing one day after
8:45
Speaker 2: I was listening to I don't remember what the new
8:46
Speaker 2: song was, but that that is one of the benefits
8:49
Speaker 2: of streaming.
8:51
Speaker 1: Not great things, but it's broken like the audience out
8:53
Speaker 1: you know, like absolutely Michael McDonald, who's on your new album,
8:56
Speaker 1: and Kenny Loggins. Yeah, you think about like those guys
8:59
Speaker 1: and you know, they kind of got lumped into like
9:01
Speaker 1: at some point it was like it was like it
9:03
Speaker 1: was it still is. It's it was ao R album
9:05
Speaker 1: oriented rock when they were around, and it became yacht rock.
9:08
Speaker 1: It's like there was make an R and B you know,
9:10
Speaker 1: like but they wouldn't have the white guys just make
9:11
Speaker 1: R and B music. Absolutely God forbid, but.
9:14
Speaker 2: Absolutely all all. But again here we go with the
9:17
Speaker 2: taking it to the streets first chord. That is the
9:19
Speaker 2: most gospely chord that that that is, that is the
9:25
Speaker 2: chord of God. Right, there's like you can't sit down
9:29
Speaker 2: and be like I'm going to write a song today.
9:31
Speaker 2: It's that's gonna sound like no, this is like it's
9:38
Speaker 2: just it's very hard to explain, and I'm still trying
9:41
Speaker 2: to get better at explaining how music makes me feel.
9:44
Speaker 2: But that's that that comes close to it. But I
9:47
Speaker 2: do have Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins on my album.
9:50
Speaker 1: Did you have the song and then think this sounds
9:53
Speaker 1: like something that we could get Michael and Kenny on
9:56
Speaker 1: or did you reach out to them first and just
9:58
Speaker 1: kind of open ended?
9:59
Speaker 2: And I reached out to them and I said, let's
10:01
Speaker 2: make a song in a very classic way, blank session,
10:05
Speaker 2: and I was playing something. I think they thought it
10:08
Speaker 2: was cool, and Kenny came over and whispered in my
10:12
Speaker 2: ear quite loudly. In my ear. It was like, I
10:15
Speaker 2: think you should let Mike play something. And I was like, absolutely,
10:18
Speaker 2: I let me be the engineer. And Mike sat down
10:22
Speaker 2: and started playing. Oh, and Kenny took it, and then
10:31
Speaker 2: Kenny took a guitar and it was like I had
10:33
Speaker 2: a microphone like this, and they then I started. I
10:36
Speaker 2: just I wasn't the artist anymore. I was the engineer,
10:38
Speaker 2: which I'm totally fine with. He was like, okay, record
10:41
Speaker 2: this here is right, one, two, three four. I was like,
10:47
Speaker 2: why are we recording that? And he was like put
10:48
Speaker 2: it on top of it and I'm like oh, and
10:56
Speaker 2: I remember there was this I think it was like
10:59
Speaker 2: on Pretzel Logic Steely Dan really am you know a
11:02
Speaker 2: lot of music, any major dude would tell you that
11:06
Speaker 2: that albums Pretzel Logic. There was a snare drum that
11:10
Speaker 2: I just I want my snare drum to sound like
11:13
Speaker 2: that on any major dude and really dry, like a
11:18
Speaker 2: Hey nineteen kind of there. And Kenny was like, Okay,
11:26
Speaker 2: the song is called Love in Exile before the lyrics,
11:30
Speaker 2: before the were lyrics. I'm like, what. But by the way,
11:34
Speaker 2: that's happened to me before I wrote a song with
11:36
Speaker 2: Katie Perry called Harley's in Hawaii. She came up to me.
11:38
Speaker 2: She was like, this is the We're gonna write a
11:40
Speaker 2: song called Harley's in Hawaii. And then Cash looked at
11:42
Speaker 2: me with like you and I ride in Harley's in Hawaii.
11:45
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, we're lit, or we're gonna.
11:47
Speaker 1: Make the whole thing. But it's a great title.
11:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a great title important to her. And
11:53
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, we're gonna make a song called
11:55
Speaker 2: Love and Exile. Sounds like one of those the titles
11:59
Speaker 2: of books you see at the grocery store when you're
12:02
Speaker 2: checking out your food and like, oh, I'll get this
12:04
Speaker 2: book by Dan something Love in Exile. It sounds really intense.
12:09
Speaker 2: Are you sure? And he was like yeah, just like
12:11
Speaker 2: and Mike's just started. He was like, Okay, I think
12:14
Speaker 2: the prechorus should be what changed? And I'm like, Mike,
12:19
Speaker 2: what changed? What? What? What change? And he goes, I
12:24
Speaker 2: thought we were with it.
12:26
Speaker 1: I thought in it.
12:27
Speaker 2: I'm like, we were just communicating through song. And then
12:30
Speaker 2: I find out they lived twenty minutes away from me.
12:32
Speaker 2: I thought they drove like an hour because I live
12:35
Speaker 2: up in Santa Barbara.
12:35
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. They were like he's right there.
12:37
Speaker 2: Yeah I thought that, and they were like, no, do
12:39
Speaker 2: you want to go get some lunch after? We like sure.
12:42
Speaker 2: It was like the most casual, easy thing ever. And
12:46
Speaker 2: I said, we'll finish this at Conway Recording Studios in Hollywood,
12:50
Speaker 2: and that's what we did.
12:51
Speaker 1: Oh man, And did you ever get back on keys?
12:54
Speaker 2: Yeah? I kept there was something about the energy that
12:58
Speaker 2: I couldn't replicate from his playing, but I just added
13:02
Speaker 2: I kept the roads like a road seventy three that
13:04
Speaker 2: he played and then I just like, you know, sprinkled
13:07
Speaker 2: some like you know those those kind of one twelve
13:18
Speaker 2: sounding chords, and the bridge is out of control, like like,
13:39
Speaker 2: how the hell did we get back.
13:40
Speaker 1: To the b Those are amazing? There are a couple
13:44
Speaker 1: of amazing bridges on this album.
13:46
Speaker 2: They I can't take all the credit for writing that bridge.
13:48
Speaker 2: That was really like the two of them in their
13:50
Speaker 2: classic way getting together. They have a very modern approach
13:53
Speaker 2: to writing songs. What makes it modern meaning that's like,
13:56
Speaker 2: it's not outdated, it's just about the song. Just because
13:59
Speaker 2: they've been doing it for a while doesn't mean that
14:00
Speaker 2: they just stopped knowing how to do it. They are
14:03
Speaker 2: better at it than ever, and they're very particular about
14:06
Speaker 2: lyrics and like, well maybe we should approach this a
14:08
Speaker 2: different and like I feel like I'm honestly with Max
14:11
Speaker 2: right now. I feel like I'm in like you know,
14:14
Speaker 2: some of the songwriters who had hits last year, like
14:17
Speaker 2: they have. It's a song. A great song is a
14:19
Speaker 2: great song.
14:20
Speaker 1: They're not trying to capture.
14:21
Speaker 2: No, they're not trying to They're not trying to be
14:23
Speaker 2: like how they were forty years ago. They're just trying
14:26
Speaker 2: to be them now and that's that's what makes them
14:28
Speaker 2: still dope, and you know, playing on Thundercat records and
14:31
Speaker 2: like why they're still regarded and like a really hit way.
14:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, that's a good point. And they still
14:36
Speaker 1: sound great too, absolutely sound amazing.
14:39
Speaker 2: There are a lot of good bridges on I'm Glad
14:41
Speaker 2: you think so.
14:43
Speaker 1: One of the first things I noticed, it's okay if.
14:45
Speaker 2: You don't remember all the titles the songs cry, oh Man,
14:48
Speaker 2: thank You. I was just listening to that with somebody
14:50
Speaker 2: and I was at Conway. Just I live at Conway.
14:54
Speaker 1: It's a long way from Santa Barbara.
14:56
Speaker 2: It's a long way from That's actually one of the
14:59
Speaker 2: simpler songs, one of the only songs that just has
15:03
Speaker 2: four chords on the album. And blood Pop, my collaborator
15:09
Speaker 2: on this album, was like, you know, you can get
15:10
Speaker 2: any musician on your album, right, And I'm like, well,
15:15
Speaker 2: I don't want to bother anybody, Like, no, anybody would
15:17
Speaker 2: love to be on this album. You should call Kenny G.
15:20
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't have Kenny G's number, Like, let's
15:23
Speaker 2: get it. So, like before we do that, why don't
15:26
Speaker 2: I have this program called Moyses A lot of it.
15:30
Speaker 1: You know, I use that too.
15:31
Speaker 2: I love Moyses and I found a YouTube video of
15:35
Speaker 2: Kenny G playing a Christmas song or something, because I
15:38
Speaker 2: could have easily gotten a soprano sax VST sound and
15:42
Speaker 2: just like you know, it would, but it wouldn't have
15:44
Speaker 2: sounded really that good. I like to work with audio,
15:46
Speaker 2: so I opened it up in Moyses and isolated Kenny
15:51
Speaker 2: G's soprano saxophone solo there and kind of laid it
15:55
Speaker 2: out in the song as like a map, almost like
15:58
Speaker 2: an audition, because I was so sure that.
15:59
Speaker 1: He was a solo from a Christmas like some random me.
16:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then I transposed it solely. It's like no, no, no,
16:07
Speaker 2: like like it was a completely different I was just
16:13
Speaker 2: grabbing samples at that point, and it was just to
16:16
Speaker 2: show mister Kenny G that, like I was serious and
16:19
Speaker 2: like I took the time to put a soprano map
16:22
Speaker 2: of what it could sound like if he did decide
16:25
Speaker 2: to make a solo and play a solo rather on
16:29
Speaker 2: my song cry because I had a really specific vision
16:32
Speaker 2: for it. We had a very specific vision for it.
16:34
Speaker 2: And my friend got his manager's number, I got Kenny's number.
16:39
Speaker 2: I said Hey, no worries if you have no time
16:43
Speaker 2: for this. But I took the liberty in mapping something
16:47
Speaker 2: out of there what this could sound like. And he
16:49
Speaker 2: was like, I'm going to be back from wherever in
16:51
Speaker 2: a week. I'll take a listen to it and I'll
16:54
Speaker 2: never forget. I'm in Goalita, California, going to the in
16:57
Speaker 2: and out with my very hungry wife at the time
17:00
Speaker 2: and me, who was also very hungry, and it was
17:03
Speaker 2: five o'clock because that's what you do in Santa Barbara.
17:06
Speaker 2: Five pm in Santa Barbara feels like ten pm. And
17:09
Speaker 2: I get a call from Kenny g and he was like,
17:11
Speaker 2: it's done. I had to record it right away. I
17:13
Speaker 2: was actually home, no.
17:14
Speaker 1: Way, no way.
17:16
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god. I called Blood and like,
17:19
Speaker 2: we have the first feature on the record.
17:21
Speaker 1: How close is it to what you had kind of
17:23
Speaker 1: mapped out?
17:23
Speaker 2: It was probably like seventy five percent there, Like there
17:27
Speaker 2: was that I did the I'd melodyne that and then
17:36
Speaker 2: he replayed it. It was just a trip hearing something
17:39
Speaker 2: that I melodined, but then actually having the guy play it.
17:41
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I mean, there's a world where he
17:43
Speaker 1: could have been offended that you even you were like, well,
17:45
Speaker 1: this is you know, Kenny, this is what I It's
17:47
Speaker 1: either could be thanks because you know and now I
17:50
Speaker 1: know where you want me to go with it, or
17:51
Speaker 1: could have been like, why I'm Kenny, g why are you?
17:53
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I think he knew my heart was
17:56
Speaker 2: in the right place for it, and I wasn't like,
17:58
Speaker 2: you know, putting it over a rock song or something.
18:00
Speaker 3: Right.
18:01
Speaker 2: It felt it had the big snare. It almost felt
18:04
Speaker 2: like it's a very Michael Bolton Baywatch hair blowing in
18:07
Speaker 2: the wind, running at you know, thirty two frames a
18:10
Speaker 2: second whatever slow motion with these Chords records. Yeah, a
18:17
Speaker 2: song for my dad.
18:18
Speaker 1: That's for your dad.
18:20
Speaker 2: It's about showing not being afraid to show emotion, which
18:24
Speaker 2: I guess all of us can use that reminder sometimes.
18:27
Speaker 2: But I wrote it a week before his mom had
18:30
Speaker 2: passed away, and I didn't realize how much he would
18:34
Speaker 2: need that song. So he's very grateful for that song.
18:37
Speaker 1: You were super close to your dad growing up too, right.
18:39
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, in terms of I'm still I'm still close
18:41
Speaker 2: to my dad.
18:42
Speaker 1: It's great to hear me because he was like a
18:43
Speaker 1: big he was really big supporter supporter of your music.
18:47
Speaker 2: Right, and my mom too number one support of my
18:50
Speaker 2: mom and dad always pushing me, like my mom was
18:52
Speaker 2: my first an R. I make the joke. She was
18:54
Speaker 2: always brutally honest growing up. If a song I made
18:59
Speaker 2: on my little sequence or on my NPC was good
19:01
Speaker 2: or not, she'd be like, I would change this, this, that,
19:03
Speaker 2: And I was like, Okay, I'm going to get better
19:05
Speaker 2: at this.
19:07
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Charlie Booths after the break.
19:14
Speaker 1: Remember the first song you think, the first good song
19:16
Speaker 1: you wrote, I.
19:17
Speaker 2: Probably see you again. No, I really I think before that.
19:23
Speaker 2: I think that's correct. Actually, I first, I think the
19:25
Speaker 2: first good song. It's so subjective. I think my fans
19:28
Speaker 2: from my early days of YouTube might hear my old
19:32
Speaker 2: YouTube music and be like, oh, maybe that you're first.
19:35
Speaker 2: Maybe something from there is like really great. But I
19:38
Speaker 2: cringe at a lot of that old music.
19:41
Speaker 1: What makes you cringe at that stuff? Because it's a
19:43
Speaker 1: lot of people who really love that.
19:44
Speaker 3: My voice sounded like this, I was really enunciating everything.
19:50
Speaker 3: I had a deviated septumb at the time, and mysk,
19:56
Speaker 3: the song's not good.
19:57
Speaker 1: No, I mean I was really great. Ideas in those old.
20:00
Speaker 2: There was a song on this little ep that I
20:04
Speaker 2: put on band camp back in college, and I remember
20:09
Speaker 2: I recorded the whole song in four thirty two hurts,
20:14
Speaker 2: not four forty one, so it all sounded kind of
20:17
Speaker 2: I was listening to a lot of Donuts by Jay
20:18
Speaker 2: Dilla at the time, and I think it was called
20:21
Speaker 2: full of It in the melody no No, And I
20:34
Speaker 2: remember I played it for a teacher in class and
20:36
Speaker 2: he was like, I'm really surprised. That was very nice
20:41
Speaker 2: and as so maybe that was an inkling of a
20:44
Speaker 2: first good song that I wrote. But when I wrote
20:47
Speaker 2: the ear, I was.
20:48
Speaker 1: Like, ah, that's how did how did that come? How
20:51
Speaker 1: did that melody specific? Because it seems like it's that
20:53
Speaker 1: melody that really well.
20:55
Speaker 2: I always played a sample with that melody and then
20:59
Speaker 2: we replayed it on the piano because that's it's so funny.
21:04
Speaker 2: I remind myself that's the only time that happens in
21:08
Speaker 2: the song, this little, this little iconic intro. You don't
21:12
Speaker 2: hear it again after that.
21:14
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize that until you just said it.
21:17
Speaker 2: And it's been a long day and after I after
21:21
Speaker 2: I took the chords, there's some things I can't explain
21:26
Speaker 2: it just from God just fell down. It's been a
21:29
Speaker 2: long day without you, my friend. And I'll tell you
21:34
Speaker 2: all about it when I see you again. And we
21:36
Speaker 2: all just looked at each other, Me Andrew Theater and
21:39
Speaker 2: DJ Frankie, and we had just met each other. They
21:41
Speaker 2: were working on a flow Rider record right before that.
21:44
Speaker 2: I think it was like I happened in my notes saved.
21:46
Speaker 2: I just saw a picture of it on my phone
21:48
Speaker 2: from three o'clock in the morning. I just wrote the
21:50
Speaker 2: lyrics down in my notes. Wow, it's a that was
21:53
Speaker 2: a if that never, If that moment never happens again,
21:58
Speaker 2: I'm totally fine because that was like an act of God.
22:01
Speaker 2: It really was.
22:02
Speaker 1: It's cool that you honor that song as much as
22:04
Speaker 1: because you know, some people get kind of tired of
22:06
Speaker 1: the you know, the hit that they have to play
22:08
Speaker 1: and live with.
22:09
Speaker 2: But it like no never never, certain songs. Yes, but
22:13
Speaker 2: I mean, I just I grow. I used to hate
22:16
Speaker 2: on my song Marvin Gay. I'm like, I don't like
22:19
Speaker 2: that song. It's it's it's corny, it's and then I
22:21
Speaker 2: listened to the production. It's kind of fun. It's like
22:23
Speaker 2: it's kitchy. It's of a time period. It reminds me
22:26
Speaker 2: of going to la for the first time, but see
22:30
Speaker 2: you again and one call away. I just I'm very
22:34
Speaker 2: happy to play those songs for the rest of my life.
22:36
Speaker 2: And that's, by the way, very churchy, and the live
22:47
Speaker 2: version I do it's it's it's almost that you hear
22:55
Speaker 2: that melody and you're like, I feel like I've heard
22:58
Speaker 2: that song before. It's like that song was written millions
23:00
Speaker 2: of years ago and I just found like a little
23:02
Speaker 2: portal and just pulled the star down and just brought
23:06
Speaker 2: it back.
23:06
Speaker 1: And also just the fact that your point, to your
23:08
Speaker 1: point that that only happens once in the intro, that.
23:12
Speaker 2: The little it's a hook in itself, and.
23:19
Speaker 1: It's such a strong hook that in your mind you
23:21
Speaker 1: think it occurs more than one way, more than like
23:23
Speaker 1: a few times.
23:24
Speaker 3: In this song.
23:25
Speaker 4: That's it.
23:29
Speaker 2: It was kind of modeled after a church song. Every
23:39
Speaker 2: great song if you get take away the drums, I'll
23:42
Speaker 2: take away all the background vocals, take away the organs,
23:45
Speaker 2: the horns. I was listening to a lot of Jadakiss
23:49
Speaker 2: at the time. You take all of that away, and
23:52
Speaker 2: if you can just it, it works.
24:05
Speaker 1: Wonderful gospel music big like big or small, is just
24:09
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, it's gospel music.
24:11
Speaker 2: He played a huge role into Simon and Garfunkle too,
24:15
Speaker 2: And like you listen to and it makes sense when
24:17
Speaker 2: you listen to Bridge over Troubled Water, that's that's a
24:31
Speaker 2: gospel chord progression. That's all. Any anytime a little flare
24:34
Speaker 2: of that isn't pop music. I believe it makes the
24:38
Speaker 2: pop music better.
24:39
Speaker 1: That was lay Neck tell. I think that did the
24:41
Speaker 1: piano on Bridge of Trouble Water.
24:44
Speaker 2: I would have been I don't know for sure. I
24:46
Speaker 2: think you're you're correct, people.
24:48
Speaker 1: I hope people fastiack me, but I think it is.
24:50
Speaker 1: And you know, he would have grown up.
24:53
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I can't remember who Paul Simon was listening to,
24:58
Speaker 2: but he said he was listening to someone specifically.
25:01
Speaker 1: I think that Dixie, Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And there's
25:09
Speaker 1: a gospel music's just amazing.
25:12
Speaker 2: Remember what was that?
25:13
Speaker 3: Uh?
25:14
Speaker 2: What the movie with Lauren Hill singing joyful Sister Sister
25:20
Speaker 2: act too like they're like people. That video was thirty
25:23
Speaker 2: six million plays on YouTube. People have a deep appreciation
25:26
Speaker 2: for all of those chords.
25:28
Speaker 1: Like.
25:31
Speaker 2: There's something that that that every anybody could be affected
25:34
Speaker 2: by that they all didn't have to grow up in
25:36
Speaker 2: the South or whatever. They just it's just about the
25:40
Speaker 2: note values we.
25:41
Speaker 1: Didnt think about. I mean you had voice to men
25:42
Speaker 1: on job voice notes voice men third Uh that Matt
25:46
Speaker 1: about thirty years ago, roughly. Yeah, as big as you
25:49
Speaker 1: could possibly be. And absolutely there's like that in their
25:52
Speaker 1: music and in their and in their hits.
25:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, and all of the and all through the influence
25:57
Speaker 2: of all their collaborators too. When and I was talking
26:00
Speaker 2: to Jimmy Jam about this once when I was like,
26:03
Speaker 2: you know, the coldest thing you ever did, Jimmy Jam
26:05
Speaker 2: and he was like what I was like when on
26:08
Speaker 2: Bend and knee when it started, that's the intro and
26:14
Speaker 2: then the chorus goes to the one can we go
26:17
Speaker 2: back to the days of love us?
26:21
Speaker 5: Can't somebody tell me to got things by the way
26:29
Speaker 5: they used to be?
26:31
Speaker 2: There's Jesus here. The sense like it's all in its
26:37
Speaker 2: DNA is gospel music. Yeah, And it's my quest to
26:40
Speaker 2: find everyone's influences where it first started.
26:43
Speaker 1: So when you're listening to the radio, is that how
26:46
Speaker 1: you're listening?
26:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it can be I mean it's jazz, gospel,
26:52
Speaker 2: R and B. You can listen to Digging on You
26:55
Speaker 2: by TLC nineteen ninety four off crazy, sexy, cool, Babyface
27:00
Speaker 2: and La Reid.
27:02
Speaker 5: Oh two Happy of the way I do.
27:07
Speaker 2: All I can think about you?
27:11
Speaker 5: No, no, no, no, no, no, the baby fun you you know.
27:17
Speaker 2: That's like you could Bill Evans jazz pianists. We played
27:25
Speaker 2: lay embellished like that. That's jazz to me.
27:29
Speaker 1: What was the second chord on on D major?
27:34
Speaker 2: I would have warmed up my voice had a known
27:36
Speaker 2: I was singing, but you get the you get the feeling, no, no, no, no,
27:57
Speaker 2: the and Babyface like can we talk Tavin Campbell for
28:04
Speaker 2: Love to Know Your Name? And the bridge on that
28:07
Speaker 2: is very gospel and I've been oh my poor voice.
28:27
Speaker 2: It's what you would hear in a church. Yes, I
28:30
Speaker 2: believe that the best music it can be the poppyist
28:34
Speaker 2: of pop tark music. There's if it's great, there's a
28:38
Speaker 2: little bit of gospel or jazz hiding in there.
28:40
Speaker 1: Do you feel like gospel found its way mostly out
28:45
Speaker 1: of pop music in the last decade decade.
28:48
Speaker 2: And a half, I think so, like you hear, especially
28:52
Speaker 2: in the nineties, and there was so much iconic cinematography
28:56
Speaker 2: attached to soundtracks in the nineties. The Bodyguard. You listen
29:00
Speaker 2: to I Am every Woman like a Whitney Houston.
29:04
Speaker 5: I'm every woman everyone.
29:12
Speaker 2: And of course that was done before and in the
29:14
Speaker 2: prior arrangement, but it was brought into the Shaka one,
29:19
Speaker 2: but it was brought to the next level even more so,
29:22
Speaker 2: introduced to an entirely new generation at that time. And
29:25
Speaker 2: they have a gospel choir on that song. Diane Warren
29:28
Speaker 2: would write songs and there were and David Foster produced them.
29:30
Speaker 2: There would be gospel choirs in the background. You listen
29:33
Speaker 2: to a Britney Spears record, you listen to Lucky by
29:36
Speaker 2: Britney Spears, there's a gospel choir, not super prominent, but
29:40
Speaker 2: it's tucked in there. Maybe a better example.
29:42
Speaker 5: Is when you want it the most, there's no easy.
29:47
Speaker 2: Selene Dion, they do a whole.
29:53
Speaker 1: Easy.
29:54
Speaker 2: It's like it's there's a choir and the background tucked
29:57
Speaker 2: under Selene, but you're just listening to Selene. They're supporting her.
30:01
Speaker 1: He said the Bodyguard Wait in exile.
30:03
Speaker 5: Everyone fall he love some times, some times is wrong,
30:10
Speaker 5: and sometimes it's right. There comes upon well, no.
30:16
Speaker 2: No, I messed it up.
30:18
Speaker 5: It comes upon well we we access yeah, say shoot
30:27
Speaker 5: h m hm, oh you've got to say.
30:41
Speaker 2: And then you know the you know the bridge on that.
30:47
Speaker 5: Ye no no no no no no no no no.
30:53
Speaker 2: No, forgive me. I don't know the words. Sometimes you left,
31:04
Speaker 2: sometimes you fright. That's that's why for the Super Bowl
31:07
Speaker 2: I had the gospel choir on the field. I have
31:09
Speaker 2: all the orchestra elements because I just I And that's
31:12
Speaker 2: why it's all over my album too. I just I'm
31:14
Speaker 2: obsessed with those chords. Like a C major is nice,
31:18
Speaker 2: but when you add.
31:19
Speaker 1: A little, would you add a little?
31:22
Speaker 2: I think it's a nine bad little clusters. See that's
31:30
Speaker 2: the only part where I fall off. I don't really
31:34
Speaker 2: know the names of these chords. I just C major seven,
31:38
Speaker 2: something a little clustered? Does it? Does it well?
31:46
Speaker 1: So when you sit down the play, if you're just
31:49
Speaker 1: at home and you just set the piano cause you
31:51
Speaker 1: some reason is that typically the stuff you're playing.
31:53
Speaker 2: It depends on you as of recently. Yes, do you
31:56
Speaker 2: enjoy playing classical? I do, but not as much as
32:00
Speaker 2: I like just freestyling. And I like nock turn and
32:04
Speaker 2: C sharp minor by Chopan the just because of like
32:13
Speaker 2: how all the notes fall, and I'm like.
32:21
Speaker 1: It's the temperament of the piece.
32:32
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I don't know what any
32:34
Speaker 2: of this is called. Yeah, etcetera, etcetera. There are people
32:42
Speaker 2: who can play it ten times better than me, but
32:44
Speaker 2: it's just the feeling that I get. Nothing makes me
32:48
Speaker 2: feel better than being in front of us.
32:51
Speaker 1: It seems to be clear that you do a lot
32:52
Speaker 1: of listening.
32:53
Speaker 2: And thinking and talking to myself. I love listening to music.
32:57
Speaker 2: I love music so much.
32:59
Speaker 1: Do you ever hear a song and feel like I
33:00
Speaker 1: want to do? Did you ever hear a song sit
33:03
Speaker 1: down and start playing it and then spin it and
33:06
Speaker 1: do something of your own?
33:09
Speaker 2: Yeah? That becomes complicated because you never want to take
33:13
Speaker 2: something because then you like, then it's not your song.
33:16
Speaker 2: But I mean, I haven't done that recently because on
33:21
Speaker 2: this album it was all about It was kind of
33:24
Speaker 2: and I had to really force myself. Blood Pop helped me,
33:27
Speaker 2: like get there. I had to really force myself to
33:29
Speaker 2: put the life experience first. Hey, you should write a
33:31
Speaker 2: song about your dad, no melody in mind? What would
33:35
Speaker 2: the lyrics be? And then the next day, let's figure
33:38
Speaker 2: out what the music is going to be. I was
33:40
Speaker 2: very uncomfortable with that, but I like being uncomfortable because
33:43
Speaker 2: that's how I get comfortable.
33:45
Speaker 1: And that was Blood Pop's influence on absolutely this album.
33:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I had it took a year to allow
33:50
Speaker 2: myself to get there, which is why I've been kind
33:53
Speaker 2: of gone a little bit. I haven't I haven't put
33:55
Speaker 2: out an album in three years.
33:58
Speaker 1: One last break and we're back with Charlie Booth. I
34:05
Speaker 1: was thinking about, might get the title wrong, but it's
34:09
Speaker 1: it's an essence. It's never never meet your heroes.
34:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't meet you, don't meet your heroes. Perfect. They
34:20
Speaker 2: six Stay Time Big Orchestra, nineteen people in that orchestra
34:25
Speaker 2: we recorded at Conway. Yeah, that came up. That's a
34:31
Speaker 2: great example that came about from a conversation I was
34:35
Speaker 2: having with Blood about the time I met someone who
34:38
Speaker 2: I really looked up to and was so excited to
34:43
Speaker 2: drive up to their house and then I met them
34:45
Speaker 2: and it was like maybe they were having a bad day.
34:47
Speaker 2: I don't know what it was, but it was just
34:48
Speaker 2: the vibe was terrible and it didn't like it kind
34:52
Speaker 2: of ruined it for me because someone I've like, you know,
34:55
Speaker 2: just admired in all sorts of ways. It's just like
34:58
Speaker 2: it wasn't ruined, and I just I just like it
35:02
Speaker 2: felt like growing up in like twenty minutes, like, Okay,
35:05
Speaker 2: it's not all the world's not all perfect.
35:09
Speaker 1: Your illusions shattered a bit.
35:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't meet your heroes. It's they're not as they seem.
35:13
Speaker 2: I just should have kept them on my TV screen
35:15
Speaker 2: kind of, it wasn't. That's a little bit of a
35:17
Speaker 2: fudgy lie. I wasn't watching TV.
35:18
Speaker 1: But well, and then there's another great line that's more
35:21
Speaker 1: fudgy lie. It's another line that's something like, you don't
35:25
Speaker 1: meet your heroes unless you know you all.
35:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't meet your heroes without knowing yourself.
35:30
Speaker 1: I'm knowing yourself.
35:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, dramatic. The reason why I said that is because
35:36
Speaker 2: if I think if I had met this person later
35:39
Speaker 2: in my thirties, it wouldn't have affected me so viscerally.
35:43
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, that's okay. You probably there's you
35:47
Speaker 2: have your life and I have my life. I'm not
35:50
Speaker 2: keen to everything that's going on. I'm not hip to
35:52
Speaker 2: everything that's going on in your life. It's it's okay,
35:56
Speaker 2: we'll put a pin in this. Butteen twenty three, being
36:00
Speaker 2: in LA and having access suddenly and all these people
36:03
Speaker 2: want to come meet you, and then you meet them
36:05
Speaker 2: and they're some are amazing and then some are just
36:08
Speaker 2: like kind of a letdown?
36:09
Speaker 1: Who were some of the amazing people? Because I know
36:11
Speaker 1: you've got I mean, you've there's people you've really looked
36:13
Speaker 1: up to that you've gotten to know, and it seems
36:15
Speaker 1: like it's been really positive.
36:16
Speaker 2: I think when when when Bruce Springsteen called me after
36:20
Speaker 2: I had sang his song somewhere and a seven three
36:23
Speaker 2: to two number popped up. I don't want to blow
36:26
Speaker 2: up a spot, but I have a seven three to
36:27
Speaker 2: two number. Yeah, that's right. And I think when Billy
36:31
Speaker 2: Joel called me personally asked if i'd open up for him.
36:34
Speaker 2: This is a long time ago getting to play beat
36:37
Speaker 2: yourself up for Max Martin leating knowing Max for ten
36:41
Speaker 2: years and not really we've never like officially like worked together,
36:45
Speaker 2: but just just having that relationship of like even if
36:48
Speaker 2: two months go by, like I can call him and
36:51
Speaker 2: he can give me advice, Like he's given me great
36:54
Speaker 2: advice about like what I maybe could explore musically?
36:58
Speaker 1: What is he he held you to explore?
37:01
Speaker 2: He called me once and said, do you know what
37:03
Speaker 2: I miss, and I said, well, what's that? He was
37:06
Speaker 2: like the emotion in some of these records. Sometimes I
37:12
Speaker 2: liked it when, like I really felt like I could
37:16
Speaker 2: feel what you were singing about and I couldn't even
37:19
Speaker 2: hear the lyrics, like it was something I'm paraphrasing, it
37:23
Speaker 2: was something to that extent, And then I ended up
37:25
Speaker 2: starting this album based on that, based on that.
37:29
Speaker 1: Some of that going on in this album Lookause even Cry,
37:31
Speaker 1: like there's a moment and I know you have perfect pitch,
37:32
Speaker 1: so and I actually want to ask you about that.
37:34
Speaker 1: I don't know how that impacts how you feel about
37:35
Speaker 1: your own performance sometimes, but like on that song Cry,
37:39
Speaker 1: there's a moment of opening few lyrics, like your voice
37:42
Speaker 1: sounds very.
37:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I knew it was something I knew I
37:46
Speaker 2: was and that was the first time I had sung
37:48
Speaker 2: that lyric. I didn't re sing that that it was.
37:51
Speaker 2: I knew that I was writing about my dad and
37:54
Speaker 2: like a message to my dad, because I had already
37:56
Speaker 2: seen him experienced the loss of his mother, who lived
38:00
Speaker 2: ninety four years old, a wonderful, beautiful life, but I
38:04
Speaker 2: never had written a song for him, and these chords
38:08
Speaker 2: even sounded like Dad, This is for you, Like, that's
38:13
Speaker 2: what those chords sound like to me, without any lyrics written.
38:16
Speaker 2: So the emotion was it was in the box right away, and.
38:21
Speaker 1: You didn't redo the top of that song.
38:24
Speaker 2: No, I added layers, but I didn't redo the lead vocal.
38:27
Speaker 1: It's really stunning because it is like it stands out,
38:30
Speaker 1: you know, it stands out as something. It feels you
38:32
Speaker 1: can it feels like a moment you know.
38:34
Speaker 2: That you're That's that's what I was hoping for.
38:36
Speaker 1: Having perfect pitch. I've always been curious because I have
38:39
Speaker 1: a baby right now. You can hell, how old is
38:41
Speaker 1: your baby? Five months old?
38:43
Speaker 2: Oh Congress, that's amazing.
38:44
Speaker 1: And so sometimes I'm up middle of the night just
38:46
Speaker 1: doing like ear training next to her because I've read
38:49
Speaker 1: that you can teach babies to have perfect pitch. So
38:51
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna,
38:53
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna see what I can do here.
38:55
Speaker 1: You know.
38:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have to force it, though. I think
38:56
Speaker 2: the best thing you can do is just play music
38:59
Speaker 2: a lot, because their minds are sponges right having perfect pitches.
39:04
Speaker 2: There are amazing musicians who don't even know how to
39:07
Speaker 2: read music. Or play instruments and make the best music ever.
39:10
Speaker 2: It's just kind of a nice thing to have.
39:12
Speaker 1: Is it ever an impediment? Though? Like can you listen
39:14
Speaker 1: to like a The Loneous Monk song and be like
39:16
Speaker 1: or is it just like pain painful?
39:18
Speaker 2: Because I mean you saw me. I mean this piano
39:20
Speaker 2: is imperfectly it is imperfectly tuned, and you saw me
39:24
Speaker 2: wins at it. But I've you know, I got over
39:26
Speaker 2: myself so and now I'm used to it. Yeah, because
39:28
Speaker 2: I already have OCD diagnosed OCD and I really care
39:32
Speaker 2: about the details and my new details about everything, and
39:36
Speaker 2: I feel like the perfect pitch may make me want
39:41
Speaker 2: to make things a little too perfect sometimes. So it's
39:43
Speaker 2: great to have collaborators who either have it and are
39:46
Speaker 2: cognizant of like not making it too perfect, or don't
39:48
Speaker 2: have it at all, or might not even play an instrument,
39:51
Speaker 2: or like no, just make it simple, like I That's
39:53
Speaker 2: why I love collaboration for that reason.
39:55
Speaker 1: Are you able to hear songs like like you Know
39:57
Speaker 1: Dylan or like The Loneous Monk, Like you're able to
40:00
Speaker 1: hear the beauty in those songs even though they might
40:03
Speaker 1: not be massing to say like, no, I don't think
40:05
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan's songs are great, but no.
40:06
Speaker 2: But there's like, is it that's so funny? You're I
40:09
Speaker 2: was just talking about this with another artist just right
40:12
Speaker 2: before this too. And I will watch all the talent
40:18
Speaker 2: competitions and I'll hear there are so many better singers
40:22
Speaker 2: than me, and I can hear them sing the phone
40:25
Speaker 2: Book perfectly, hit every run, crisp and perfect. But I'm
40:29
Speaker 2: not getting any emotion out of it. I'm not going
40:32
Speaker 2: to be interested in it. Ultimately, I'd rather hear Dylan.
40:36
Speaker 2: I don't know a whole lot about dylan songs, but
40:38
Speaker 2: if I did, I'd rather hear him sing off pitch
40:42
Speaker 2: and sing it with conviction so I can really feel
40:45
Speaker 2: what he's singing about. I'm not really looking for him to,
40:49
Speaker 2: you know. Mariah Carey is a good example of somebody
40:51
Speaker 2: who can sing around the sun but has some restraint
40:57
Speaker 2: for the rest of us who can't do that. Makes
41:00
Speaker 2: That's why she has had so much success, that she's
41:02
Speaker 2: able to make music that's kind of universal for everybody.
41:05
Speaker 1: Think she pulls it back.
41:06
Speaker 2: I think she pulls it back, and then there are
41:09
Speaker 2: moments when she needs to hit the whistletone like on
41:12
Speaker 2: Dream Lover. She can she can do it, but she's
41:15
Speaker 2: not starting the record off with it. She's That's why
41:19
Speaker 2: Whitney was great too. Whitney. There will probably never be
41:22
Speaker 2: another singer like Whitney in our lifetime. She grew up
41:26
Speaker 2: in Nowork, the first New Jersey native to sing the
41:29
Speaker 2: national anthem at the Super Bowl, and I was the second.
41:32
Speaker 1: No pressure man, no pressure.
41:34
Speaker 2: I wasn't as good as a singer as there, but
41:38
Speaker 2: she was able to. It's just like this fine line.
41:41
Speaker 2: She was so proficient vocally but made it so palatable
41:46
Speaker 2: for people who can't even sing. Everybody can feel. Everyone
41:51
Speaker 2: feels like I to sing when they listen to Whitney.
41:53
Speaker 1: It's interesting to bring up Whitney because the first two
41:56
Speaker 1: tracks on your album, which I think of the first
41:57
Speaker 1: two singles.
41:58
Speaker 2: Yeah Changes and beat Yourself Up, it.
42:00
Speaker 1: Kind of reminds me of like Whitney about like like
42:04
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of like they just go a
42:05
Speaker 1: lot of places, you know, like the way right, Like
42:07
Speaker 1: he's yes on a movement.
42:10
Speaker 2: A lot of movement, a lot of packed with instrumentation,
42:14
Speaker 2: but not not.
42:15
Speaker 1: Too much, not too big, not busy, you know, it's
42:17
Speaker 1: like it's like.
42:18
Speaker 2: It's like the album is constantly other than a couple
42:21
Speaker 2: songs like beat Yourself Up is like constantly if it
42:23
Speaker 2: went here too much, Yeah, and it did go here
42:26
Speaker 2: and I had to pull it back when I was
42:27
Speaker 2: mixing it with Manny, but like it hits here and then.
42:30
Speaker 1: Well, it's like I want to dance with somebody could
42:31
Speaker 1: like absolutely very easily, you know, spill over into too much,
42:35
Speaker 1: but it's it's but it's perfect.
42:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's I think there's a way to
42:40
Speaker 2: nudge at your influences without completely taking the art. It's
42:46
Speaker 2: that you're you're able to listen to Rick Astley never
42:49
Speaker 2: going to give you up, and you're able to listen
42:51
Speaker 2: to I want to Dance with Somebody. But it's just
42:53
Speaker 2: about like a feeling that those songs gave you. When
42:56
Speaker 2: you want that feeling.
42:57
Speaker 1: Capture that feeling. Yeah, yeah, I want to go back
43:00
Speaker 1: to the National anthem. Yeah, with a mutual friend in
43:05
Speaker 1: Eric Vitra.
43:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my guy.
43:07
Speaker 1: Eric's amazing dude.
43:08
Speaker 2: Amazing dude, such a like I've never seen him frown.
43:11
Speaker 1: The nice, the greatest, the best, that one of the
43:13
Speaker 1: most I study with him or he's just he's he's
43:15
Speaker 1: given he's giving me a lesson before and he's like
43:17
Speaker 1: offered to keep going. And it felt like, you know,
43:20
Speaker 1: like I don't want I don't want to waste his time.
43:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the kind of that's the kind of person
43:23
Speaker 2: he is. He doesn't think it's a waste of time.
43:25
Speaker 2: He's is so in love with teaching and he's been
43:30
Speaker 2: doing it for such a long time that like he
43:32
Speaker 2: just he doesn't He'll work with a list stars and
43:35
Speaker 2: people who are just starting out.
43:36
Speaker 1: I know, and he's lovely like that. But I'm like,
43:37
Speaker 1: I just you know, I'm like, I just I don't
43:39
Speaker 1: want to impose on him. But did you work with
43:41
Speaker 1: him with an on the National Anthem?
43:43
Speaker 2: I did work with him. I warmed up with him
43:45
Speaker 2: right beforehand, and oddly, I wasn't nervous before going on.
43:50
Speaker 2: I like wasn't nervous like putting the arrangement together in
43:53
Speaker 2: my head. I always kind of knew what it was
43:56
Speaker 2: going to be. I I always had I always knew
43:59
Speaker 2: it was going to be in D Major. I just
44:01
Speaker 2: like that. But it's kind of writing, like writing a song,
44:04
Speaker 2: It's like you have the finished product in your head.
44:06
Speaker 2: And then you reverse engineer it.
44:07
Speaker 1: What is what is warming up for an event like that?
44:10
Speaker 1: Like like what are you doing?
44:11
Speaker 2: You?
44:12
Speaker 1: You? You?
44:14
Speaker 2: And just your voice is a muscle, so your vocal
44:23
Speaker 2: chords are a muscle. Rather, it's like you're just warming
44:25
Speaker 2: them up. National Anthem is hard to sing too.
44:28
Speaker 1: It's it's insane, Like I feel the range of it is.
44:33
Speaker 2: Insane. You're going octave jump, like you know there's somewhere
44:39
Speaker 2: over the rainbow. I know who I want to take
44:42
Speaker 2: me home. It's all the octave jumps. But that's an
44:45
Speaker 2: octave jump plus a fifth. That's ridiculous.
44:49
Speaker 1: What's your favorite song on the new album?
44:51
Speaker 2: My favorite song on the album seems to change every day.
44:55
Speaker 2: I love changes so much. I love. I used to
44:58
Speaker 2: be cringe because I hated it when I first wrote it.
45:02
Speaker 2: It's not but because it's kind of the first time
45:04
Speaker 2: where I've made something that is a little almost like
45:07
Speaker 2: borderline comedic. It's like, why would you put that against
45:11
Speaker 2: such like kind of James Taylor maybe like Simon and
45:20
Speaker 2: garfunk calls sounding made me think of her majesty at
45:24
Speaker 2: the end of Abbey Road, like the way just pops in.
45:26
Speaker 1: Because it's not as short as that, but it's like,
45:28
Speaker 1: it's feels like a really great PostScript.
45:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was the I appreciate that, so
45:35
Speaker 2: I thought it was a perfect way to end the
45:37
Speaker 2: album because the whole album is filled with moments of
45:41
Speaker 2: me reflecting on past decisions of how I used to
45:44
Speaker 2: act and growing up as a young man in the
45:48
Speaker 2: ever changing music industry, being influenced by things. It's I
45:53
Speaker 2: thought it was a nice period mark at the end
45:55
Speaker 2: of the album. Who played that was my friend Curtis
45:59
Speaker 2: from Philadelphia. He's a wonderful guitar player. He played that
46:04
Speaker 2: at three o'clock in the morning, and I got so
46:07
Speaker 2: sick the next day. Thank god we got the guitar
46:09
Speaker 2: down because I was so spent. I was so tired.
46:11
Speaker 1: It was a The second half of the album is
46:15
Speaker 1: a little it feels a little heavier than the first.
46:19
Speaker 2: It's half, yeah, not.
46:21
Speaker 1: Like in About, but he just feels a little more weighty.
46:23
Speaker 2: By design, because I didn't want to come out right yeah,
46:30
Speaker 2: all the kids being like oh unks and his emo
46:33
Speaker 2: or whatever they say I want. I wanted to start
46:35
Speaker 2: with the fun stuff, and the album, in my opinion,
46:39
Speaker 2: is like how a concert should be laid out. You
46:41
Speaker 2: start with the fun stuff, and then in the middle
46:43
Speaker 2: it gets like a little melancholic and heavy, and then surprise,
46:47
Speaker 2: here's another fun one. It's not as fun as the
46:50
Speaker 2: first one, but it's like it's it's there. And then
46:54
Speaker 2: encore is a song that you wouldn't expect I'd play
46:57
Speaker 2: or something.
46:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's perfectly sequenced and it's like a really quick
47:02
Speaker 1: listen too, Like it doesn't it just goes. It goes
47:05
Speaker 1: by really quick.
47:06
Speaker 2: I want you to be able to replay it, replay value,
47:09
Speaker 2: a lot of replay value on it. And I just
47:11
Speaker 2: there there are I don't Don't Meet Your Heroes. I
47:13
Speaker 2: had a solo on there where I was really.
47:19
Speaker 4: Like all that and yeah, what was it the well, no, son,
47:29
Speaker 4: probably the jazziest thing on the on this.
47:33
Speaker 1: Album, and then.
47:41
Speaker 2: Don't Meet Yours They're not is I mean, it's the
47:47
Speaker 2: jazz is all over the album, but I think that's
47:49
Speaker 2: the jazziest one.
47:50
Speaker 1: Well, then there's a then there's a you scat along
47:53
Speaker 1: to a guitar solo.
47:54
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, hey brother, damn, yeah, you're not even using
47:56
Speaker 2: he's not even using notes right now. It's like impressive.
48:00
Speaker 2: That's Curtis playing the guitar too. No no no no
48:10
Speaker 2: no no no no no no no no no no.
48:14
Speaker 2: I I've always wanted to. I mean, I'll get better
48:18
Speaker 2: at that, just go on. But I just I always
48:20
Speaker 2: wanted to, uh, to answer your question from way before,
48:24
Speaker 2: probably from an hour ago, I've always just I've always
48:26
Speaker 2: known that jazz was a part of my DNA. When
48:28
Speaker 2: making pop music.
48:30
Speaker 1: It feels like a great synthesis of pop and jazz.
48:35
Speaker 2: And gospel in a way. There's choirs all I'm washed up.
48:37
Speaker 2: We have a choir, I think cry, there's a choir. Changes,
48:41
Speaker 2: there's a choir. Beat yourself up, no choir.
48:44
Speaker 1: The raven Lynee. Yeah, she's a new one too for me.
48:49
Speaker 1: My kids love her though. Yeah, she's she had a
48:51
Speaker 1: massive hit this year. She did, she did. She sounds
48:54
Speaker 1: She's like, she sounds amazing on your album. Yeah, and
48:56
Speaker 1: I love that song. It's almost like a called New Jersey.
48:59
Speaker 2: It has a but it sounds like it was produced
49:02
Speaker 2: in South Central, like like my love of the My
49:07
Speaker 2: one of my favorite songs is the intro record on
49:10
Speaker 2: the Chronic with the solo tip like and Snoop Dogg
49:16
Speaker 2: just talking immense amount of.
49:17
Speaker 1: Shazy, crazy ship. The craziest ship ever.
49:27
Speaker 2: Like that was, don't that is?
49:29
Speaker 1: That? Is?
49:29
Speaker 2: That whole album is feeling based. Nothing about that is diatonic.
49:33
Speaker 2: That's like that's C minor and a flat minor that
49:37
Speaker 2: should clash. Why does it feel good? It just does.
49:41
Speaker 2: It's it's all feeling based. How do we start talking
49:44
Speaker 2: about that? Oh yeah, New Jersey is very kind of
49:46
Speaker 2: a West Coast sonic anthem, but about the state I'm from,
49:51
Speaker 2: which is New Jersey.
49:52
Speaker 1: The Chronic was like the first album. I remember being
49:55
Speaker 1: like enveloped by like as a like not even by choice,
49:58
Speaker 1: which is as a kid and so and so, and
50:00
Speaker 1: you know, I'm from LA So I love that album
50:02
Speaker 1: very proud.
50:03
Speaker 2: What was it like when that dropped?
50:05
Speaker 1: Was what was more life before? I mean because I
50:08
Speaker 1: was so young, but it was I thought it was
50:11
Speaker 1: the way everything always was. Like I thought, yeah, like
50:13
Speaker 1: you know, even my age, I'm thirty four, thirty six, okay,
50:17
Speaker 1: thirty six, so you were kind of the same. Was
50:19
Speaker 1: the same three when that came out, and you know,
50:22
Speaker 1: you turn on the TV and it'd be like the
50:23
Speaker 1: promo of like the gin and Juice video.
50:26
Speaker 2: I got pouring out the whole like I'm looking at
50:30
Speaker 2: you know.
50:30
Speaker 1: It was there's nowhere I supposed to be seeing that,
50:32
Speaker 1: but you look at you like life is. Remember having
50:34
Speaker 1: the feeling of like I'm in for a ride like
50:36
Speaker 1: this life is. But you know, that was a moment
50:38
Speaker 1: in time there was.
50:39
Speaker 2: That, you know, the Source Awards in nineteen ninety five
50:43
Speaker 2: and Snoop when Doggy Style came out. I mean you
50:45
Speaker 2: have to imagine me a kid going the Catholic school
50:48
Speaker 2: listening to Doggy Style. My actually, my first Snoop dog
50:52
Speaker 2: album was paid the Cost to be the Boss, and
50:54
Speaker 2: I heard the Neptune's production from the Church to the Palace. Yeah, man,
51:01
Speaker 2: Chad Hugo, like why does those monds? That was the
51:07
Speaker 2: minor that that's not supposed to work, But it just
51:09
Speaker 2: worked because it was just the Neptune's feeling it and.
51:11
Speaker 1: It Snoop sounds sinister on it.
51:13
Speaker 2: It's like, damn woo, what are you going to do?
51:15
Speaker 2: Cauz with them? Baby Blue? Like I didn't even know
51:19
Speaker 2: what the crip walk was. I was in school listening
51:22
Speaker 2: to that, Oh I was. I was so enamored. It
51:25
Speaker 2: was the early days of YouTube and I was looking
51:28
Speaker 2: at all the videos. I think. Drop It Like It's
51:30
Speaker 2: Hot was the first music video I watched on the internet.
51:34
Speaker 2: Pharrell like blurring out the ice creams that he was
51:37
Speaker 2: like that, Like, I just I want people to be
51:41
Speaker 2: excited about music again because I feel like they're not.
51:44
Speaker 2: I feel like there's so much like you and I
51:47
Speaker 2: love music, but I feel like everybody feels that music
51:50
Speaker 2: is disposable because you can. You can go on Amazon
51:54
Speaker 2: and listen to it.
51:54
Speaker 1: You can go on Spotify, the spot Spotify.
51:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can go on Apple and you can. They can.
52:00
Speaker 2: It's just I used to have to order CDs. If
52:03
Speaker 2: I wanted the chocolate Starfish and hot dog flavored water,
52:06
Speaker 2: I had to put an order and it sold a
52:08
Speaker 2: mill copies first week off Interscope when Jimmy was there,
52:12
Speaker 2: Like the marketing was amazing.
52:14
Speaker 1: Crazy.
52:14
Speaker 2: I had to put an order in for Crazy Sexy Cool.
52:18
Speaker 2: They didn't have it at Jack's Music Shop in Redknack,
52:20
Speaker 2: New Jersey. I would stay in the record store and
52:23
Speaker 2: listen to the CDs I had, but it wasn't just me,
52:26
Speaker 2: like it was like, oh, you have the mixed CD,
52:29
Speaker 2: let me you have My name is off the Slim
52:31
Speaker 2: Shady LP let me borrow that, Like he kind of
52:33
Speaker 2: had to like jump through some hoops to get to music.
52:36
Speaker 2: You don't even have to illegally download anymore. It's all
52:39
Speaker 2: there's no need for bit torrents or anything. It's there's
52:42
Speaker 2: no LimeWire anyway. You just can if you want to
52:44
Speaker 2: hear a song, you can find it.
52:46
Speaker 1: Even LimeWire wasn't a bit of an impediment to Like
52:48
Speaker 1: there was a go through some hoopla and the thing
52:52
Speaker 1: I hear it.
52:52
Speaker 2: Would be like I had riddled my parents' computer with viruses,
52:56
Speaker 2: and but it was worth it because I got to
52:58
Speaker 2: hear Goodies by Sierra. These kids today like they like
53:02
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say that there's not an appreciation of music.
53:05
Speaker 2: I let's I retract my statement. There is an appreciation
53:08
Speaker 2: of music, it's just changed.
53:09
Speaker 1: It's just a fervor the way, Like I know what
53:12
Speaker 1: you mean. I think kids like to our earlier point,
53:14
Speaker 1: I think kids appreciate a wider array of music, no
53:18
Speaker 1: older music. You know that there's they really have. Yeah,
53:22
Speaker 1: but there's not like the excitement from it because the
53:26
Speaker 1: distribution is so easy now, like the excitement like even
53:29
Speaker 1: just like TRL was like, oh my god, I have any.
53:32
Speaker 2: Backstreet Boys seen all the fans line up for Christina
53:34
Speaker 2: Aguilera and you.
53:35
Speaker 1: Rush home from school to see it, like and if
53:37
Speaker 1: you didn't run it was it you? Like? How do
53:40
Speaker 1: I see that?
53:40
Speaker 2: Explain that concept to Jen Alpha. They don't. What do
53:43
Speaker 2: you mean I have to rush home to watch something?
53:44
Speaker 2: If I want to watch something, I'll watch it whenever
53:46
Speaker 2: I want. That's fine. That's I'm not going to be
53:49
Speaker 2: on and be like good old days like I'm I've
53:52
Speaker 2: had success in these new days. I'm very happy about that.
53:55
Speaker 2: I just want to make a body of work that
53:57
Speaker 2: makes people somewhat feel what I felt when I first
54:01
Speaker 2: heard who on the TLC tip and X Y and
54:05
Speaker 2: z I. I just I want that feeling to never die.
54:10
Speaker 1: Well. I think you captured a really great feeling on
54:12
Speaker 1: this thanks and like the melodies like that, there's so
54:15
Speaker 1: there's melodies for days and just the last thing I
54:17
Speaker 1: want to say about it, just just because I have
54:20
Speaker 1: you here, yeah, is when I was listening to it,
54:21
Speaker 1: like there are melodies that I feel like it's recycled
54:24
Speaker 1: through pop music and I don't hear any of those
54:27
Speaker 1: on here, Like it sounds it's just like, everything sounds
54:29
Speaker 1: appropriate to the song, organic, everything sounds new, it's inspiring.
54:33
Speaker 2: I appreciate that because I don't really listen to a
54:36
Speaker 2: whole lot of pop music. I'm not going to be
54:38
Speaker 2: the cool artist and like I don't listen to any
54:41
Speaker 2: pop music. I am cognizant of pop music. I know
54:44
Speaker 2: Olivia Dean, I know all Sabrina songs like.
54:46
Speaker 1: Wait, she's great. I mean for a pop I mean
54:48
Speaker 1: the fact that she's like, like, you know that some
54:50
Speaker 1: of these people are like popa artists. Now you're like
54:53
Speaker 1: it's that does speak to some of the savvy of
54:56
Speaker 1: of the music listening public at this point.
54:59
Speaker 2: I appreciate you saying that. It's very nice to you.
55:01
Speaker 1: It's amazing. It was great to meet you, man, very
55:04
Speaker 1: nice to meet you.
55:04
Speaker 2: So I feel like I've known you, like for my
55:06
Speaker 2: whole life. Weird, very nice, good to know you, to
55:09
Speaker 2: know you too. And this is a really wow, what
55:12
Speaker 2: a dump this is here?
55:13
Speaker 5: Right?
55:14
Speaker 1: Well, we'll get this, get this up, tune this, we'll
55:16
Speaker 1: get this going.
55:17
Speaker 5: And we just.
55:19
Speaker 2: Talked for more than a minute.
55:25
Speaker 1: In an episode description, you'll find a link to a
55:27
Speaker 1: playlist featuring our favorite songs from Charlie Proof. Be sure
55:30
Speaker 1: to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast
55:33
Speaker 1: to see all of our video interviews, and be sure
55:36
Speaker 1: to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod.
55:39
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with
55:42
Speaker 1: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer
55:45
Speaker 1: is Ben Taliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries.
55:49
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Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app.
56:06
Speaker 1: Our theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Rich