Latest / Craft Brewery Financial Training Podcast / 2025 Brewery Marketing Master Class

Transcript

2025 Brewery Marketing Master Class · Craft Brewery Financial Training Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Today on the podcast I speak with Chris Overlay from Get Optimize Marketing Agency for breweries. We have a very cool episode here today. We're gonna combine building your sales forecast with building your marketing forecast, your marketing plan. And Chris has a number of wonderful ideas and profitable ideas to help you supercharge your sales and marketing for your brewery in 2025. So for now, please enjoy this conversation with Chris Overlay from Get Optimized. Welcome to the Craft Brewery Financial Training podcast, where we combine beer and numbers to provide you with tips, tactics, and strategies so that you can improve financial results in your brewery. I'm your host, Kerry Shumway, A-C-P-A-C-F-O for a brewery and a former CFO for a beer distributor. I've spent the last 20 years using finance to improve financial results in our beer business. Now I'm helping other craft breweries to do the same. Are you ready to take your brewery financial results to the next level? Okay, let's get started. Just a quick note, we'll be right back to the podcast. I wanna let you know about a new network for beer industry professionals. It's called the Beer Business Finance Association. It's an organization of financial pros, just like you, looking to improve financial results, increase profitability, connect with your peers, and share best practices. So, I'd love to tell you a little bit more about this. If you are interested in learning more, please email me kerry@beerbusinessfinance.com . That's KAR y@beerbusinessfinance.com. Or you can visit bbb f association.org. That's bbb f association.org to learn more.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Chris Overlay, it is so good to see you again, and I'm excited to talk about marketing planning, sales planning, combining those two superpowers. How are you doing, my friend?
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: Oh, man, I'm good. You know, it's always good to hang out with you , Carrie , and , uh, talk marketing stuff and all those things, but so overall man , we're good . You know, we're getting towards the end of the year and it's , uh, jolly around and everyone's in good spirits and also it's business crunch time and all those fun things. So we're , uh, we're doing good.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: It's good. It's good. So obviously you and I have known each other a while for folks that might not be
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: As familiar with you,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Why don't you give 'em a little bit of background?
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. So , uh, my name's Chris Overlay. I am the founder and CEO of GI Optimized . We are a , uh, company that helps , uh, craft beer businesses drive measurable, quantifiable results through their marketing, doing stuff like ads and email and SMS and websites and SEO we're the digital marketing guys. Um, and yeah, I've been doing this in this industry for a few years now, but I've been in marketing for over 11 years now. So , uh, we're, we're past the 10 mark and been loving it, man. It's a good career.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: That's awesome. Yeah, and it's so important. You know, I work with so many breweries and you know, my focus is largely on the finances and you know, how to build your plan and then stick to your plan and so forth. But you know, the plans , you know, numbers is fine, but you need like these, what are we gonna do? And, you know, marketing is, is I think, the superpower to bring more people into your tap room . You know, buy more of your beer, buy more of your stuff, you gotta let 'em know about it. So excited to dive in here.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, especially now, you know, the industry's going through this tightening period and it's getting more competitive and, and not just with other, you know, breweries out there, but it's, you know, it's bars, it's people's finances, it's RTDs, it's all this different stuff that you have to try to navigate and, and, you know , you have to fight for for those, those customers to bring 'em in. And , uh, it's an exciting time. It's a lot of , uh, you know, in the trenches kind of work, but I'm sure we'll get into some of those things as we talk today. But , uh, it is a fun thing and, and an important thing for sure. Awesome.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: So for people listening , um, you know, we're recording this as both. We're gonna do audio and video, so if you're listening on a podcast, you can check out the video to see some of the slides and spreadsheets and planning tools that we've got. Um, but without further ado, I'm gonna start just with an overview of kind of my process with sales planning and sales forecasting. And then we're gonna turn it over to Chris. Uh, and he's gonna talk about, you know, marketing planning, and he's got some really, I think, really good practical tools that you guys can, can really benefit from. Um, so first off, like with sales forecasting basics, you know, just kind of looking at what are your main revenue channels, you know, if you've got taproom, if you're through wholesale, you know , really creating a separate plan for each of those . 'cause the , the underlying drivers are, are very different. You know, if you think about the taproom, like customers times average transaction, and, you know, wholesale is gonna be a whole set of dynamics in terms of what drives that. But it's, you know, generally, you know, customers and you know, what , what kind of volume per outlet you're looking at, how many placements you've got, things of that nature. So we want separate forecast for each, each revenue driver. And then trying to simplify it . I'm a big fan of these, you know, average, you know, revenue per barrel calculations. I think they're very easy to use. Um, you know, they're not perfect, but they're directionally correct and they can help quite a bit when you're doing your planning. Um, so just some things to kind of think about and get started. You know, from a practical example, you know, if you look at your tap room , and you can do this with your own numbers, is, you know, kind of take your total sales divided by the total barrels that were sold to your tap room . And sometimes when I'm working with breweries, they're not really sure, you know, I don't, I'm not sure how many barrels we push through there. So I would encourage you to, you know, kind of get that data. It's kind of important so that you can measure, you know, not just for forecasting, but also, you know, what's the, what's the relative effectiveness of, of monetizing that beer that goes, goes through your taproom. Um, 'cause it's very valuable. But , but sometimes we lose track. You know, maybe there's, there's foamy beer, there's too many shift beers, there's beer loss , something's going on that's costing us dollars . So if we kind of track this revenue per barrel, be consistent, you know , get some good trends on it. So in this example, I'm just gonna say, you know, maybe your tapper did $600,000, maybe do the math. You did 500 barrels, it's $1,200 a barrel, so that can be your stake in the ground for planning. And then next year, maybe you're gonna take a price increase. You know, you're going up from, you know, going up a bucket , pint, whatever, and you're gonna get a 10% increase, let's say, on average. So that gets you up to $1,320 per barrel. Now, let's say that your volume, you know, you may not sell more beers, but you're gonna sell the same amount of beers at a higher price. So let's just say you're still gonna sell 500 barrels to your taproom. Now it's just easy to 500 barrels times your new per rev per barrel calculation of 1320 gets you to 660,000. So now you've got, you know, kind of the starting point for your, for your taproom sales plan. You can do the same thing on wholesale. Um, you know, as you know, if you're working with a wholesaler, they tend to talk in case equivalence. But to keep it simple, I'm just gonna talk, you know, in barrels for now, you know, let's say you're, you did 300,000 in sales through wholesale, a thousand barrels, $300 per barrel. So the , the things that strike you right away is , wow, $300 per barrel for wholesale versus 12 or $1,300 through the tablet . It's quite a difference . It's the same barrel of beer costs you the same regardless. Um, and let's say you're gonna forecast a 5% , uh, increase in price to $315 a barrel. And let's say you're gonna get a 5% increase in sales at wholesale. So that gets you 1,050 barrels. So again, 1,050 barrels times 315 per barrel gets you to three 30 and change. Um, so that's kinda the process that you can use. Here's some detailed, I won't spend too much time on these models, you know, we'll have 'em available for download. Um, but I kind of like looking at the trends. So in this example that I'm showing, you know, I've got last year's actual versus the New Year's plan, and I want to kind of compare it month over month. And I wanna look at my major tap major categories. This is the tapper model example. So I might have food, draft beer, retail, beer merchandise, et cetera . You know, whatever your major sales categories are. Uh, and then we can just plug in some simple calculators to say, you know, what do we think the growth is gonna be on food or draft beer or retail? And usually I'll start with the trends. Like, well , well , what, what was food? What did food increase in 2024? You know, did it go up or down? How about draft beer? And you can use that kind of to inform what you, you know, the trend is your friend . So it might continue, but you also want to think about what are the things you're gonna do to, to drive that trend up, you know? And that's really I think where, where Chris and your plan on marketing is gonna come in. But this is just a simple model that you can use to kind of help with that. Here's another extremely simple model on the wholesaler side, but I find it very useful. Um, you know , if you dealing with multiple wholesalers, just list out , list out what your sales were to them last year, what your growth was last year. And when I say last year, meaning take the current year and compare it to the prior, and then you just forecast out your expected growth. And I think it's important to have, again, I've got this sort of notes, assumptions, action items column. Like if a trend on, like, for example, I've got one of these wholesaler locations that was down 10% in the current year, but I'm gonna forecast it's up 5% next year. Like, well, why, you know, it's like they say hope is not a strategy. You can't just, like, it's easy to change numbers on a spreadsheet, but what exactly is gonna happen. So I wanna , I wanna list that out. So in this case, I've got, you know, these, we're gonna have new authorized products in our large chain stores, right? That could be the , could be a reason your wholesaler got a , one of your brands authorized in a big, big chain. That's, that's gonna bump up volume. That makes sense. So those are just two models that you can try out , uh, that might be helpful. So , uh, you can get more detailed . And I, I tend to start very summarized for a lot of reasons. One, it's just, it's, it's less overwhelming to me. You know, I love numbers, but it , it's very easy to get lost in the weeds of this. So I like start high level , you know, looking at that rev per berra , and then get more detail , you know, look at you , if you're using QuickBooks, you've got a ton of data. Um, if you've got some sort of brewery software, you've got a ton of data on your sales, you know, by brand, by sku . Um, and then if you're self-distributing, you know, you may have that data for the different accounts. So these sales plans can start high level and get very granular kind of depending on, you know, what you need and what you're looking for. Um, but that's just kind of a quick overview of how you might get started with your forecast. I think it's so important to get it, you know, on paper , um, not only so you can kind of plan out what's coming, but so you can share this with your team and say, look, we're, we wanna set some targets and here's how we've come up with these targets. And, you know, then, then you can kind of deploy those and, and then hold people accountable to 'em. So those are some ways to kind of map that out. And so, Kristen , I wanna turn it over to you now. Like, how do we, like, that's great. Like, okay, we've got numbers on a page. What are we gonna actually do from a marketing perspective? 'cause I think from my, you know, from when I've worked with breweries, it's been like, do you have a marketing plan? They , they kind of do, but kind of not really. And it's really, it's not really on paper. It's not organized. Just a big advocate of, man, if you don't write it down, it, it isn't gonna happen. Um , so take us through that. I know you've got a lot of cool stuff to share.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think that the, you know, one of the next logical steps with what you're looking at on the sales forecast is saying, okay, this is where we want to be, right? Maybe some of those numbers are like, okay, we need to get another 5% bump in this category. Uh, the question is how do we get there? Um, and marketing is gonna be a huge portion of that. I mean, there's other stuff involved too. Like, we have to execute on site , we have to upsell, we have to, you know, get our sales guys to, to push out to our wholesalers and, and distributors and those kind of folks. But , um, the marketing piece of it kind of becomes that roadmap of like, all right , what can we control and how can we actually do this? And just like you've done with, with your spreadsheets, you kinda have to get , um, tactical with, with your marketing plan. And , uh, what I'm gonna do is kind of show you some, you know, a few different layers here. Like there's kind of the overarching annual, here's our year thoughts. Um, and then let's break that down and look at like, what this actually looks like period to period , month to month, quarter to quarter , and, and what that means for your team and what things you should look at. Um, and , and planning out like how you actually execute this marketing. Because you could have the, the dream, right? You could have the best idea and you could have this side of , so this is how we're gonna do it. But if you're not executing month to month and actually doing the in the trenches work, then uh, it's gonna all be for nothing. Um, and then another really key important part about all of your marketing is like measurability. Um, once you understand how your campaigns performed, did they actually work for you? How well do they work? Were you profitable? Did you have return? And, and to help with forecasting, you know , if you do a really good job with measuring now, you know, next year when you start doing some of the same activations or similar ones, or even next period, if you're gonna do something similar, it's like, well, how much do we have to do? What is our return gonna look like? What if we spend an extra a hundred dollars? What would that mean a hundred dollars in advertising? What would that mean for our bottom line? And these measurable components help give vision on that where there wasn't vision before. So kind of three layers there. And , um, yeah, I'll just kind of jump into it. And Carrie , feel free to ask questions as I go along. I get rolling and my momentum goes and, you know , I'll just get talking. So if you think of anything , uh, that, that is ambiguous, then just feel free to, to yell at me and stop me.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: No , I mean , I like, I like how you said get tactical with your marketing plan. 'cause I think that's, that's a , you know , that resonated with me. I'm like, yes, absolutely. You know, you gotta , how are we gonna execute this thing? What are our targets and how are we gonna get there? So,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, starting out at kind of the high level , um, you know, your , your annual plan might look something like this. And I've done this inside of a spreadsheet. I love using spreadsheets because it makes math easy. It makes things very visual. And, and you can map out month to month to month really easy. You don't have to, to use a spreadsheet. You could use Google Docs or put it on, you know, other docs that they have cool, like canvases and whiteboards and all that kinda stuff online that you can figure out how to use. But for, for today, let's look at some spreadsheets. So what I've kind of done here is mapped out kind of a, you know, scenario of an annual plan for a brewery , uh, an annual marketing plan. And I'll kind of roll through some of this stuff pretty quickly 'cause I wanna spend a lot of time in the execution portion. But, you know, for the sake of, of the example, things you probably wanna map out in your, your annual plan is , all right , what is our annual revenue goal for the whole entire business or for the taproom? Um, and let's call that a million bucks , uh, for the year. Um, your marketing budget, you know, I , I usually shoot for about, you know, 5% of annual, like, of your goal is , should be about what your marketing budget is. Now, that number could fluctuate. You know, if you're in a position where you're well established , you don't need a lot of growth right now, you just need to sus uh, sustain, then maybe that number looks more like two 3%, and you can get away with that. If you're in a highly competitive area, or you need to have a lot of growth this year, then you know , you have to kick that number up. You know, you might have it be more closer to eight or even 10% depending on how aggressive you need to be in the market and how much growth you need. Well , let's say it's about average at 5%. That means your estimated marketing budget for the whole entire is about 50 K. Cool, cool numbers, but what does that actually mean month to month ? So what I would recommend doing is looking at your entire year and thinking about a few key things. One is like, start at the quarterly, quarterly level and think about like what your, your primary best marketing activation is. And what I mean by best is like what activation in that quarter is gonna drive us the most revenue and hopefully the most profit. And that might look something like this. Maybe Q1, your St Patrick's Day event is a big one for you. And Q2, maybe that's your anniversary party, Q3, October Fest, so on and so forth throughout the rest of the year. Then let's break it down another level. So let's look at month to month what our key activations are in . Let's talk about beer releases at this point, because beer releases are gonna be an important part of your , uh, of your operation and of your revenue. And you break this down per month to month to month in January, maybe you've got a dry January anti dry January leader day thing you're doing in May. You've got your anniversary party, September's, October Fest, so on and so forth. But you probably have an idea of things, you know, if you sat down and thought about it with your team, maybe you've got your marketing manager, your exec, your your managers involved, your GM say , all right , what are we gonna do throughout the year? What are our key nodes out there? Same thing with with beer releases. Um, you probably have a good idea of like, when we're gonna release certain beers, how many we're gonna release. Of course, some of these are not gonna be that case. You're gonna be bringing new stuff all the time. But if you can map out like your big ones, like you're probably gonna do some kind of Irish stout or something like that during St. Patrick's Day, your anniversary party, maybe you have a bunch of beers that you release during that period. Map it out , um, month to month and in , in period to period . Then let's take a look at the finances for this. Um, looking at maybe last year's numbers and saying, what do we do in Q1? I like to start at the quarterly level and say, all right , last year, Q1, we had a certain number this year, we want that number to be a little bit better. Or we need it to be a little bit better based on your, your sales forecasting that you, you did per car's documents. Um, and do that per quarter, you know, and then make sure that sums up to your, your total revenue goal. And you're gonna start to see, okay, there's gonna be certain quarters that are gonna be more important to us for revenue than others. You take your marketing budget for that quarter, it's that same 5% , uh, metric there. So you can see I've got just our, our quarterly times 5%, and that's your quarterly budget. Then you're thinking back to your, your month to month activations here and saying , all right , where do I need to lay the emphasis in marketing? It's probably gonna be around those key marketing activation nodes. So in Q1, in this example, St Patrick's Day is that big node that month or during that period is , is probably where we're gonna wait our marketing budget, the same thing throughout the, excuse me, throughout the rest of the, the year in your key activation periods. Now, some of this might fluctuate, some like for example, October Fest. Some people do this pretty early in September. If your October Fest is early in September, then your marketing project , your weight for that is probably more so in August. And you gotta think about this stuff. It's all right , when are we actually gonna spend these dollars? When do we need to spend the most money on these things? But if you map it out like this, you kind of start to see, okay, this is how much I've gotta spend or what I'm budgeting month to month to month to month for the year. And you know, inside of, you know, probably an hour or so , um, you're gonna have yourself a rough plan of what do we need to activate? What is our revenue goal? And what does our marketing budget look like? Make sense so far at the annual level?
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I like how it lines everything up too. 'cause I think there's, you get that question a lot, like, well, how much should I spend on marketing? And yeah, it's easy enough to say, I've heard the same, you know , three to 5%, whatever, and it's gonna vary. But okay, what now , you know, how, where, when I like how this kind of organizes, you know, it starts with, it's really a strategic document as well as tactical. 'cause it's like, well , where are we focusing and why? So St . Patrick's Day anniversary party, octoberfest, you know, and then, and then your Q4 activations and really lining up the dollar so that three to 5% isn't just sort of this number we pull out of the sky. It's now very specifically deployed to those specific action items that you're gonna do, gonna do within each quarter, within each month. Um , and it's even tied into brands . So I like that too. It's, it's like, okay, yeah, we're promoting St . Patrick's Day, but there's a specific, you know, brand or beer that is, is underpinning this as well. So it's the Irish stout or the winter warmer or what have you. So it's, it's just got a nice sort of synergy to it, like it ,
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Right, you know, and your budget may fluctuate based on that beer. Like if you know that you have an October vest beer that dominates and you really wanna sell the crap outta that beer this year, then you're probably gonna wanna wait budget for that in that period. Um, you know, so it's not necessarily programming based , although , although I think marketing activation programming, I'm using the , the word interchangeably there, you know, that's a huge , that's an important piece, especially for the taproom. But your beer releases, especially depending on what you've done this year , um, or in previous years, we say, look, we , we need emphasis on those particular releases. You could, you could even get granular with this and say, all right , we're gonna release a special food item that we do every year. We do a, a spec . I have a client that does a , a corn beef and cabbage thing, and they sell the crap out of that. They do a Thanksgiving to go Turkey thing, and they sell that. So it's like, that's a key moment for them. You've gotta think about that when you're, you're kind of mapping out your budget, and like you said, it does fluctuate, and you're like, okay, this is starting to make sense where , where budget's gonna be allocated. But then there is another step further of like, okay, now let's actually look at where these dollars need to be spent and what this looks like in the, in the trenches month to month . And that's where kind of a, a execution strategy comes into play. And what I kind , the way I would kind of envision this is , um, and the way we do it is we're meeting every single month talk to talk about the next month or the next couple of months, or maybe even the next quarter of marketing activations and activities that are going on. So you could imagine you do your annual plan and then it's like, all right , every month I'm gonna meet with my marketing team or my management team to talk about marketing, and we've gotta map out certain stuff to figure out what this actually looks like in real life. Um, 'cause it's one thing to have it on the spreadsheet, but like, where does this actually go when we're, we're started? So the , so the example I have up on the screen right now is like , uh, again, kind of a , a imaginary example of an August to September , um, execution plan or a marketing plan. For those couple of months, we've taken our total marketing budget for those two periods based on our annual plan. So we've come back here and said, all right, you know, for August and September, we're anticipating to spend about $11,000 in our marketing budget. Now I also know as a business person, putting myself in, in that shoes, that I've got some management costs that are part of this. Yeah , I've got a marketing team I've hired, I got an agency, I've got someone on my staff that is doing this stuff for me. They're coming in and shooting content, et cetera , et cetera. There's, there's gonna be some, some management costs from a marketing level there. Uh , I'm calling that 5,000 bucks. Maybe you've got an agency for 1500 bucks, 2000 bucks a month, you've got staff, et cetera that are part of that that leaves over about 6,000 bucks in advertising and , and promotional costs or, or budget for, for those costs. Okay, cool. I've got some numbers in my mind about what we need to do and , and what we can allocate to our marketing strategy here. What is that marketing strategy? Well, our key activations here, number one is octoberfest event. What I would recommend that you, here's things that I would recommend you think about when you're mapping out your execution. First, make some notes. What is this event even about? You know, what , what are the dates? What are, are we selling tickets for this event? Where are those tickets being sold? What's included with this event? Are we doing a glass? Is there tastings? Is there food? Are there other vendors? Is there music? What's kind of the highlights of this thing? Uh, what are the notes on it? Then think about what those , what all that stuff that you're adding into there. What is the benefit to the customer? I think this is a really important thing to have a discussion about. It's like, okay, so what, what is the customer gonna get value from here? And in this case, maybe it's, you know, they're gonna get that cool limited edition glass. There's gonna be beer for them to drink and , and all of the benefits associated with that beer. There's live music, there's gonna be special food. These are the value points. The reason this question exists is because this is what it eventually fuels the copy, the imagery for your eventual , uh, marketing assets. Then you wanna ask questions like, what, what are our tactics? Are we gonna activate email? SMS? Are we gonna have an event page? Is that where the tickets are gonna be sold? Are we using meta ads? Are we using social media? How are we gonna use that stuff? Let's talk about what those channels are and what those tactics are gonna be for actually executing this , uh, this promotion. Another really key , uh, component here, and this is gonna eventually lead into the next section here is , is about measurement and what this really means for your, your planning. But you gotta talk about how we're gonna measure success with this. You know, is it gonna be ticket sales? Is it gonna be opt-ins on a , a coupon? Is it gonna be pre-orders on my website? Is there onsite revenue? Probably , you know , there's gonna be onsite revenue, these things, but like, how are we gonna track that stuff? Um, is there a coupon code that I'm punching in my POS system? Can I pull a report on that coupon code later on so I can see how much revenue I drove from the coupon that I promoted with whatever promotion for, for this OCTOBERFEST event? You know , we talked about ticket sales. That is an important component of this. There's gonna be e-commerce , uh, transactions. And then what's nice about doing events is that it's really easy to pull a report on those event days and those time periods through your POS system . So you can say, all right , right , you know, we , we did the event all day for Octoberfest on September 15th, or, or maybe all two days on September 15th and September 16th. I can pull a report and say, this is how much revenue we drove during that period. And then that's gonna be helpful for you later on when you're measuring this. But if it's a , an event that has a certain hours associated with it, you gotta pull a report on that. Again, I kind of mentioned the coupon code thing. Can you pull these reports outta your , how, the real question is how are we gonna measure success on this? And , uh, what are those measurable actions for this campaign? Then let's talk about what assets we need. This is a super important one. Are we gonna use a video? Do we have pictures from last year? Where the heck are those pictures? Are they in Google Drive? Are they on someone's phone? Do we need a special event logo created for this event? Event pages, flyers, taproom , uh, posters and e flyer TV screen graphics. Those are all things you want to talk about so that you know what needs to be done. And, you know, another, you know, drill down with this is like, how long is it gonna take us to make that stuff, you know, for us and our agency. Like, we can turn stuff around and, you know, sometimes, you know, as , as quick as, as three to five days, but usually we say, look, we need, you know, probably about two weeks to really map everything out. That's just us though. What does your team need in order to create the poster and , uh, and the flyers and the event pages and all that stuff, because that impacts your promotional timeline, right? So this is, you , you , I'm getting in the weeds here a little bit, but I hopefully you're starting to see, okay, that we gotta get ahead on this, especially if it's a big promotion. Especially if we need a lot of assets. We probably need to start planning this thing out, you know, 30 days even before we go live with our assets. But that's why you ask those questions about what do we need, what assets we need, and when do we need them? Beyond that, it's, it's who's gonna do what, who's responsible for sourcing the assets? Who's gonna take the photos? What is the marketing agency gonna do? Or what is my marketing person gonna do? Who's gonna manage email? Um, so on and so forth. 'cause then that's gonna fold into you actually assigning these tasks, right? Okay, go do this. This is when we need it by. That's that person's responsibility to go knock that stuff out. Um, you can also take a look at your, your sales goal , uh, on, on this and say, all right , you know , um, uh, we've got a goal of hitting 25,000 this year and our ad budget is about 2,500 for this , um, for this event in particular, and this is where you kind of have to think about those weights again and think about your whole entire period. If we're talking August through September, I've got a $6,000 ad budget or promotional budget, I'm probably gonna have multiple things running during this period. Like, for example, in my annual plan in August, I've got a summer sendoff party that I'm doing too. So I can't blow all my budget on Octoberfest gonna say, well, I need to spend some money on the sendoff party as well. And then what I didn't map out in this, in the rest of this execution plan is like, you've probably probably got other stuff going on too. You've got beer releases, maybe you've got little smaller events. You've got bingo night, trivia night that you wanna give some juice behind. So you kind of wanna map all that stuff out and then go, okay, where is my weight allocation on my budget gonna be? And just, you know , move the chips around , um, based on, on what gains the most importance. And again, most importance means where gonna I make my most money? , you know, can I , uh, you know, I should spend where, where the return is gonna be the strongest for this stuff. But that is kind of the thinking when it comes to your, your month to month , year period to period , uh, execution stuff. I'll pause there, make sure Carrie is, is following along. I think if he's following along, you guys are following along. So, making sense so far, Carrie ?
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I like how it goes kind of from high level to more granular. And then the thing that kind of jumped at me, you know, I don't know about the most, but I , I really like it, is that you, you're marrying up the specific sales goal for a specific promotion to the specific ad budget. I'm not sure we always do that, right? So again, we'll say, well spend about 5% on marketing, but then how exactly are you gonna deploy that? And I like how this is very specific to each event. Like, who's gonna do it? What are they gonna do? What are the benefits? How are you gonna measure it? It just kind of gives you all the good stuff all at once. And furthermore, so you can kind of measure, like you used the word, how do you measure success? Well , this is kind of how you do it. You know, you , you organize it, you deploy it. Setting a specific sales goal. I, I just don't see that a lot. I love, I love how that's happening. 'cause this really comes back to the whole point of us kind of doing this, is, you know, you create a sales plan, you create a marketing plan, and maybe sometimes they , the two just don't jive, you know, but this is totally sinking them up. Here's your sales goal 'cause you had a sales plan, and then here's your ad budget. 'cause you know, we've got a marketing spend, but let's make them very specific to one another. So you've got all the pieces, and then, then ultimately you can measure your ROI and you know, maybe you hit the sales goal, maybe you come short, you know, now you can kind of get a sense from, 'cause you've, you've grabbed all the information like what were the results of this thing? So you can, you know, understand and learn from that.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: You know, it's, it's super important and, and very helpful in like, it's helpful because now you have visibility. And so many times we're shooting from the hip and it's like, oh yeah, we gotta promote this thing coming up. But the, it's always a question of like, how much do we promote it? And , and how much dollars do we dedicate to this? How much time do we dedicate to this? Uh , I think it's real easy to get excited about a certain promotion or something cool going on in the tap room. Your tapper manager, oh, cool, we get to decorate. We could do all this kind of stuff. You know, I'm gonna post a bunch of content about this particular thing. But as a business person, you know, time is money. Money is money as well. You have to look at this and say, okay, what needs the most attention? And that usually is what is going to drive the most revenue for you. And if you look at your numbers from previous years, octoberfest is an easy one because, you know, a lot of people do this October Fest thing every year. You could look at this and say , what did we do last year? Um, cool, are we gonna do more than that? We want to, okay, let's, let's allocate budget in time accordingly to that activity. And then if you look at that in comparison to everything else you have going on in that period , uh, maybe that quarter and say, look, team Octoberfest is our focus. We gotta make that about a lot of what we do. The other stuff is important too, but like, you know, split out your time and your money accordingly based on what's gonna mean the most for your business. Um, and uh, I think that's a helpful way to look at it. I mean, we, that's a super helpful thing for us. I saying , what was those days last year? Oh , okay, you know , you did about 5K that day. All right , you know, we should, we shouldn't spend too much then on that event this year. Um, as compared to something where you're gonna have a 10 or a $15,000 day. So that's helpful for us as marketers too, is to understand really what our benchmark is , um, to , uh, to allocate resources towards. Uh, yeah,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I'm glad think that that shooting from the hip mentality seems to happen more than we'd probably like. And you know, sometimes it's just inevitable 'cause business moves so fast, but it , it's not , uh, if we don't plan it out, you know , that's not really the pattern that we want, right? We want to be, again, as , as you had said earlier, get tactical with your marketing plan. And, and I think this really does it. And you're right. 'cause a lot of times we'll be like, you know, what is the relationship between expected sales and what we're gonna spend? Well, we need to do it. You know, this is, we always do it. It's our anniversary. Okay, we need to do it, but are we gonna make money on it? You know? So being very purposeful , uh, can really kind of get you where you want. 'cause that's the whole goal is like, what are we planning for sales? But really what are we planning for? Kind of that bottom line. Are we making money on this stuff?
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: 100% . And even if you, you know , haven't you , let's say you're, this is a new brand new event for you, or a brand new way of, well , I shouldn't say way is the point I'm gonna make is if it's an event you've never done before, you didn't do it last year, you , there's probably something else you've done similar that you could use as a benchmark. So, you know, octoberfest maybe is an extraneous example, but not that much. If you really start thinking about it. It's an event, it's an all day event on a certain day or a certain weekend. When's the last time you did something like that? What were your numbers on that day? And although it's not gonna be exactly right, it's different times of year and the seasons fluctuate with craft beer . So you can't, you have to take it with a big grain of salt. But you could look back and say, well, what did we do? How much did we spend? How much did we bring in? Should we expect something similar in this case? And how can we tweak that according to what this new event or this new promotion is? And past performance is an excellent way to, to use , uh, is an excellent resource for benchmarking what you're trying to do right now. Um, so yeah, excellent stuff. Um, let's dive one more level deeper , uh, and actually talk about quantifiable, measurable marketing metrics and how, how you should measure those, what metrics you should look at, and then how you can actually look at that stuff to do things like projections for future years or similar type promotions. So what I've pulled up is, is a few examples of campaigns that we've run. I've anonymized the data here as much as I can, but this is pretty close to what these numbers actually were for these type of events. And I'll run through them to kind of give you some, some insight and on what this actually means in , in the, in the metrics land. So the first example to look at is , is a large event. This is a , uh, October Fest esque type of event. What we did with this event is we sold tickets for pre-sale. We used like an Eventbrite system. We sold tickets online for like a month or two ahead of time. And , uh, pushed ads to that. We pushed emails to that. We did website page. All that SMS app pushes everything for it to try to push these, these pre-sale , uh, tickets. In total, we did about 15,400 in pre ticket revenue. The number of tickets we sold was 280. Um, with this campaign, we spent about a little over $1,200 in ad spend . Cool. Those are all things that are pretty easy to measure, especially if you have an e-commerce system there. Now let's talk about what, what this actually like some like , uh, performance metrics here. The first one I'm gonna talk about is a return on ad spend or ROAS roas, as US marketers call it. What this number is, is a relationship between the dollars you spent and the money you brought in. You take the, the revenue divided by your ad dollars, and that's gonna give you a ratio number. In this case, it's 12.41. What that tells us in layman's terms is that for every dollar we spent on ads, we brought 12 back. That's an excellent ROAS, an excellent roas . Um, for this campaign, you want that number to be more than a one. If it's an exact one, that means for every dollar you spent , you got one back. This isn't a profitability number. So you definitely want the RO ads to be more than one because you, you have like other costs associated with this thing. You've got fixed costs , you've got , uh, uh, operational costs, you've got marketing costs , uh, as well with this. So keep in mind that ROAS is an advertising return. Still, it's an excellent metric for seeing like how well that our ads perform. Ideally, you probably won't . I mean , it depends on your promotion, but like, you definitely want that to be more than a one at least, but you probably want that to be more like a three, a four, a five to one ROI . That's kind of how you read it, is a , you take this number and then you say to one . Um, so in this case it was about a 12 to one ROAS. Another important metric is average value. You know , this is basically taking the total tickets you sold divided by the number , uh, excuse me, the total revenue divided by the total tickets. And that tells us that we , that, you know, our average ticket value is about 55 bucks. In this case, that's valuable, especially for forecasting, which I'll get to in a second. So pin that for, for now. Another important metric for forecasting and for just general performance, when you're kind of analyzing this event versus your last event versus whatever other promotion is CPA or cost per acquisition, this number tells us how much it costs to bring in that sale. You take your , uh, ad spend, you divide your total ad spend divided by your tickets sold, and that gives you the cost per acquisition, which in this case is about four and a half bucks. So that tells us, you know, it , it costs us about four and a half bucks to bring in that ticket sale. Now, before I get into projections and how to use these for, for future analysis, let's take a quick trip to like what ROI looks like and why that's different. So in this case, we have to factor in onsite revenue for this event. So we're gonna take ticket sales and our onsite revenue. And that number in this case is about 29,000 bucks for our costs . That includes everything. So marketing staff fixed everything in, in this case, that event costed this account about $22,000. So the , you do a division of those two, you take your total rev divided by your total cost, and now you get a return on investment number, an ROI number. Now that number, if that's a 12 to one ROI , you blew it out of the park better than anybody else ever, ever. You want this number to definitely be more than a one, but it's probably gonna be closer to that one, to uh, three to one ROI . And this is more of a profitability number , um, because you're factoring all rev divided by all costs. Um, and in this case it was a 1.32 to one. So this, this, this overall campaign, including all costs was a profitable , uh, activation. So you've seen the difference there between ROAS and ROI . Yes ,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, I like that. And , and because it, because it does go back to what we were talking about before. It's like a lot of the marketing we can directly tie to, or our goal will be to tie to the revenue growth, gotta have that. However, all of those we're really, what we're really looking at is profitability. And the ROI does that nicely and I like to you , so the total cost, including marketing of the 22 grand in this example, you know, I'm guessing people can, you know, you're gonna have to draw some estimates and some averages, but you know, you know what your rent is, you know what your utilities are, you know what you're paying your staff, et cetera, et cetera. So you can, you can kind of get your hands around that and say, well, on average, this is what it's gonna cost. And then you can kind of bake that in. So it'd be pretty darn close to what, what the actual numbers are. Yep .
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: And you're probably, you know, for this event, they had music there, they had other vendors and stuff. It's like, are we spending money on that? We gotta factor that in. Um, so it , it's also a , uh, uh, you know , uh, it's worth mentioning that This number is good to share with your marketing team, whoever that is, and say, look, you know, these are our costs associated. We need this event to be this big in order to cover all these costs, including yours. Um, it's not just about roas. A lot of marketing folks are like, oh, ROAS is, is what we did. We had a four to one return on ad spend. And yeah, that's, that's good. We want have a profitable roas, but it , it , it's not helping you grow if you're not profitable. So even if we had this 12 to one roas, if they ended up having too much costs here and the , and their ROI or they didn't drive enough revenue collectively to justify those costs, and the ROI was less than a one, it was like a 0.8 or something like that. Something has to be changed. We have to optimize somewhere. Can we move , be more efficient with our advertising and reduce our ad spend? Am I paying too much for marketing management? Or maybe there's other business things that need to happen there too. Are we, are we overstaffed? Did we, you know, is our beer costs too high? And some of that stuff doesn't matter to your marketing agency, but still, like for us, you know, me in particular, I'm like, look, I I want you to be winning. So key me in on the ROI number so I know are , are we doing stuff that works? Because what I can also do as a marketing person to say, okay, this type of event, it's so expensive that the, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze. So let's rethink how we promote that, what kind of events we do in the future, and , uh, so on and so forth. And that's what a, a good, good , uh, marketing partner will do for you. But anyways, okay, so let's talk about projections here. For something like this, let's say you're looking at last year's number. You did a good job, you have these numbers, and you're like, okay, we wanna do more in 2025 for October Fest. Let's say our new goal here, instead of doing, we did 15,000 this year in pre-sale ticket revenue. Let's say next year I wanna do $18,000 in pre-sale ticket. I I'm gonna increase by , excuse me, by about 2000, 3000 bucks. Okay, cool. What do we need to do to get there? Well, let's take a look at our average value. Let's assume that's probably the same, is that if we are still getting about $55 per ticket, how many tickets do we need to sell? Well, that's a , a simple division of our total revenue divided by our average value. In order for us to hit that, we have to sell 327 tickets. Okay? What's our cost per acquisition on that? Well, let's assume that's probably gonna be about the same at $4.43 per acquisition. We know we need to sell 327 tickets. It's gonna cost us about $4, four and a half dollars per ticket to bring it in. That means our marketing spend needs to be about 14,049. So in this case, about 1450 in order to pull that off compared to our ad spend for this year at about 1241. So we gotta spend about another 200 bucks in order to sell that many more tickets. Now, are these numbers exactly how it's gonna pan out this year? Not necessarily. Your cost per acquisition may go up or down. Your average ticket value may change. There could be all sorts of things that impact these numbers. But if you're looking at marketing budgets for next year and saying , well, you know, we really want to have a better octoberfest or whatever event this is, how much do we need to spend? Well, let's not just pull a number out of the hat. Let's take a look at our past performance. Let's look at cost per acquisition. Let's look at our average value and let's make a , a reasonable estimation. So we're not just saying , yeah , throw another 500 bucks at it and see what happens. It's like , oh , it's , it's actually c . So, you know, that's how you would use these numbers to, to form some kind of projection, right? Yep . I like that. Um, now, you know , a couple more examples for you on this front is, well , what about other stuff besides an event? Um, here's some of that for you. So here's an example of a a four pack presale that we did. Basically what was going on is, is , uh, this brewery was selling , um, like a specialty four pack . We put it up on their website. We have a , in fact, I'll show this to you. So we, we have this landing page for this imperial stout. We , uh, have a package where you pre-buy it. So you buy it online and then you come pick it up in the store when it's ready. So this beer is not even actually on the shelves yet. We're pre-selling 'cause we know this is gonna be kind of a specialty thing. And we've thrown in a little extra value here saying you'll get a free four ounce pour onsite when you pick this up. The beauty about this is that it's an e-commerce flow. So, you know, and why that's beautiful is that we have really good tracking. When we look at things like Google Analytics or uh , uh, megapixel data, we can track that data all the way back through to ads. Um, so in this case, let me actually flip back over to the spreadsheet here. When we ran this promotion, we did ads, we did email, we had some texts , that kind of stuff. We sold about $1,200 in pre-sales for this four pack . Total orders is about 51 orders. Now, one anecdote here is that because we tracked really well with ads, we knew how much of that revenue was associated with ads. So about $500 of it came directly from ads, the other revenue came from other channels, right? So now keep that in mind because we're gonna look at a ROAS specifically to, to ad spend here. So also because we did a good job with e-commerce tracking, we know, know we sold about 19 of those packages via the ads. Our total ad spend 90 bucks. That makes our ROAS our roas . Keep in mind we're dividing ad revenue, revenue from ads divided by , uh, ad costs . So that's 500, about 500 divided by 90 is about five to one. So five to one return on ad spend on revenue generated from directly from ads. Our average value, it's about 24 bucks. 'cause we took 500 divided by 19, and our cost per acquisition was about $5. We took , uh, our ad costs , um, divided by our , uh, number of orders. It cost us about five bucks. So overall, this campaign actually was really good. The pre-sales were great. We knew that we covered , uh, and we had more revenue driven from email and SMS. The next time we do this campaign, let's say we actually wanna drive $800 from, from , uh, ads. Okay? There's our $800 projection. Our average value is gonna be about the same 24 bucks. That means we've gotta sell 33 of these orders from ads in order to hit that $800 number. If our cost per acquisition stays about the same, that means next time we gotta spend about 167 instead of 90. And this is a great example of like something that isn't necessarily tied to an event. It's like, okay, we did this four pack presale, maybe in two months we do another four pack presale, or we do it again next month and we do wanna sell more. So how much more money do we need to spend next month on this? This is how you put those things together and you could apply the same kind of tracking formula to , uh, really many different kinds of promotions. Um, whether you're doing e-commerce event tickets, it doesn't necessarily have to be tied to a revenue component. The revenue component helps with understanding return on ad spend because we can see how much money was driven in from ads or how much money. It's very clear to see this in an e-commerce kind of analytics , uh, system. But, you know, let's say you're doing , uh, a coupon where , uh, you're offering a coupon download on your website. We did this for like a buy one, get one pints , um, for a client. Uh, the way that works differently is instead of that revenue being tied to the e-commerce transaction online, you pull that number , um, you have to pull a report from your POS based on that coupon code. So somebody comes in, they say, oh, I got this, this email that says I gotta buy one, get one. That should be a punch code in your POS . Later on after the promotion's done, you pull a report and say, okay, how much revenue do we generate on orders that included that coupon? Well, what , it's about 800 bucks from those orders. Then you run through the same process. How many coupons have we redeemed? How much did we spend? What's our ROAS on that? What's our average value? How much did it cost us to bring in every single one of those , uh, coupon , um, redemptions. Um, another metric might you might look at here is, you know, total coupons downloaded versus how many were redeemed. Uh, that's a nice number for you, a nice percentage number. And what I'm doing there is saying, okay, we, we actually drove 120 coupon downloads, but only 25 of them actually came in and redeemed. That's a 21% redemption rate. So next time we do a promotion like this, okay, should we anticipate about a 21% redemption rate? Okay, let's work the numbers. How much revenue do we wanna bring in? How many coupon downloads do we need? What's our redemption rate need to be? Um, so on and so forth. Uh, but , uh, you know , like I said, it doesn't have to be tied to a revenue , uh, item specifically. Um, but you do want eventually pull those numbers in somehow, right? Whether it's redemptions on site through the p os or , uh, maybe it's event bookings. You know , if you're using an ad to drive, you know , uh, people inquiring about private events. Okay, let's look at how many private events we booked over the course of a month. What was the revenue on those? Where did those come from? Did they come from ads? The ones that came from ads? Uh, uh, how much revenue was there? Let's look at ad costs , cost per acquisition , return on ad spend. ROI could be a factor there, so on and so forth. So hopefully these examples are kind of putting the nuts and bolts in place , um, for you.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: I like , yeah, I like the models for 'em. 'cause they're straightforward. And honestly, the more you went through 'em, the more it started to make sense to me in the , in the acronyms can kind of stick for people. So I think there's some benefit to that. But it's also , um, you know, so once you've developed the model, so you get sort of art and science to it, right? So this is the science, like here's, here are the actual, here's the actual data , uh, here's what it's telling you. Here's how the leverages you can pull. But then there's the creative side or that art side where it's like, because I guess I didn't really think about like this . Like I usually focus so much on events, large event because it's like, that's usually where we're putting our emphasis. But no, I mean, you've got all these other things you're selling, you know, why not do a , a four pack ? I mean, I love , number one, I love the look at that beer. I was getting thirsty just looking at that . Um, and it's did a great job
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: With the asset. Yeah,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: It's , it's beautiful. And, you know, tell people about this stuff and then do it through e-commerce so you can track it. But I like promoting different things that you're offering. So the coupon, the four pack , I mean, you could, you could go as far as you want with this, I would imagine. And then you can, and I'm gonna say this and you can tell me what you think about it, but, you know, kind of planning this stuff out. I mean, it's already kind of on your overview on your, your 12 month deal, but you can sort of pre-plan a lot of this stuff. Um, 'cause it , it again takes away that shooting from the hip or sort of flying by the seat of your pants. Like, what are we gonna do mon next month? Ah , well, you know, I don't know , we can, so I mean , you've already kind of thought about it and you can stage some of these things and then rotate in. 'cause people wanna be presented with different options, right? I don't wanna be constantly barrage with the same, but if you give me , oh, it's a four pack this month, or it's a coupon that month, it's an event the next, that's kind of cool. Sort of varies it up and, you know, keeps it interesting and hopefully ultimately drives, drives that revenue
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: And it helps you understand what works. You know , um, how many times have you launched a, a discount? You say , oh yeah, we're gonna do buy one, get one pints, or we're gonna do dollar off or whatever. And you're like, we put it out there and did that work? Did it not work? ? You know, I don't know. Um, at the end of the day, we , we think we're supposed to do this stuff, but what actually worked , and it just takes the discipline of saying, okay, we're gonna do this. How are we gonna track that? Let's make sure the POS system has the trackability piece of it. If we're gonna promote this on the website, let's make sure we've got tracking on the commerce side and we're looking at that through our ad channels. We're looking at that through Google Analytics. And then we look at, you know, those revenue numbers there and compare that to all the marketing effort we put into it versus what we got in return. And you'll find out that certain stuff just doesn't hit. Um, and then you can dissect it from there. That's, that's what's so much fun about like, marketing for me as like the data nerd guys. I'm like, okay, great. The coupon thing didn't work this time. Well, why didn't it work? Was it part of , uh, the marketing strategy? Did we not put this in front of the right people? Did we not launch it in time? Or was it the website? Did we not communicate value strong enough or was it the offer in and of itself? Did people just not care about this particular offer? The data though, allows us to see that stuff , um, much more clearly. And , uh, the more data you have, the better you get at these things. And , um, yeah , I was just on a , uh, on a Brewers Association presentation yesterday, two days ago, they were doing their 2025 , um, predictions. And the metaphor that they use , I thought it was brilliant, is that the brewing industry previously was the , uh, field of dreams industry where if you build it, they will come. You know, if you just have a brewery, people will come knocking on your door. And it's not that anymore. It's moved into the money ball . Uh, a phase of the industry, which is much more tactical. How do we do more with less? How do we really make these things work? And like you, you think about Moneyball and, and analytics and all that. Like, this is what that looks like is let's dive into it. Let's get tactical, let's get granular and see what's working and what's not, and figure out where we can, we can actually , uh, drive margin for our business. And, and yeah, I just love that metaphor.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's good. That's a good way of relating it. So, you know, you've done a really nice job of presenting , um, a very tactical marketing plan and , and in , in many ways simplifying it for us, right? But it's not simple. So maybe tell people a little bit about how you work with your clients. You know, what does that look like? So if somebody's interested and reach out and say , all right , Chris, I get it. Uh, very cool, but how exactly might we work together? What does that look like?
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, so , um, we wanna look at things , uh, you know, as holistically as possible here and, and analyze what, you know, tools and, and , uh, tactics you're using for your marketing strategy. What's gonna work best for you? So is that advertising? Is it email? Is it SMS? Do you have an app that you're using? What do the app pushes look like in there? Um, you know, we, I guess there's kind of like multiple layers to our, our marketing service. On one hand we're a planning support team. So , uh, we'll help you map out what that month to month plan looks like. We'll help you map out that quarterly and annual plan and talk about things like what promotions should you run? Here's what we know , uh, is working out there and what we've seen work. Here's what we've kind of seen not work. Here's ideas for you. Let's go through that brainstorming process and map this whole thing out. Um, then we're one part execution partner here. Do you need help getting the emails out, designing the collateral for those, writing the copy for those? Um, do you need help running the ads for that stuff? How do you even run these ad campaigns? How do you set up target audiences and, and campaigns that you're not just dumping money into meta's pockets and Zuckerberg's pockets as little as you can, right? You're not wasting , uh, you're always gonna have a little bit there and Zuckerberg's gonna continue to get richer, but, you know, how do you really leverage these platforms to drive performance? How do you set up the conversions and the tracking for these types of campaigns? 'cause this is all data nerd stuff, you know? And if you're good at it and it's all stuff you could figure out if you had plenty of time and infinite resources, you could do it, but chances are you don't. So , uh, that's what we're here for, is to help you manage and, and navigate these things, and then run those campaigns and, and talk to you about what worked, what didn't work, here's what the margins look like, are we winning? And , uh, we keep trying to do that stuff. So the simple version of that is we're a marketing agency for, for, that specializes in craft beer, but it's really all of those nuts and bolts and the management of all the details that , um, we bring to the table for you , um,
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Critical , critical stuff. So why don't you , um, and we'll share this in the notes and whatnot , but give people your email contact information, how they can get in touch.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. So website's easy, www@getgetoptimiz.com , um, like the hop , um, and , uh, my email is chris@getoptimiz.com. Uh , we got lots of resources on site. Um, you can find , uh, me, you find , check out our blog. We've got a podcast. Carrie's been on it multiple times. There's great stuff there. Um, you can find me on LinkedIn and, and on the socials and all that stuff too. And I'm always down to chat. So hit me up and , uh, we'll set up some time and, and answer questions. I'm a big fan of that. It's like, let's, let's just talk. I'm not gonna, you know, charge you a consulting fee to, to jump on my calendar. It doesn't work like that. So I'd rather talk to you and give you a fair shake about what you need and what what can work and , um, take it that way. So , uh, hit me up, dudes.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. Chris, thanks so much for the time.
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, man. Thank you.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Craft Brewery Financial Training podcast, where we combine beer and numbers so that you can improve financial results in your brewery. For more resources, tools, guides and online courses, visit k craft brewery financial training.com. And don't forget to sign up for the world famous K Craft Brewery financial training newsletter. Until next time, get out there and improve financial results in your brewery today.