Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / Why Smart Founders Still Lose Great People | Emotional Intelligence Lessons from Farah Harris

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Why Smart Founders Still Lose Great People | Emotional Intelligence Lessons from Farah Harris · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

0:00
What does an emotional intelligence actually mean?
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People typically think that it means you're just calm all the
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time and it's not true. What is self-awareness and can
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you gain more? Can you become more self aware?
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Yes, and you have to. You have to.
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Self-awareness is the bedrock of emotional intelligence.
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Where does self-awareness show up for a business?
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Owner the F word that founders don't like and leaders don't
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like and people in general don't like and it's feedback.
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You can have a low EQ reaction just make sure you rebound with
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a high EQ response. What do we do with the low EQ
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folks that like stay there and. Today's guest is Farah Harris,
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an expert on emotional intelligence, licensed
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therapist, founder of Working Well Daily and international
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best selling author of the Color of Emotional Intelligence.
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Farah, welcome to the show, How you feeling?
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I'm feeling great, thank you for having me.
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Appreciate you coming down. Appreciate you making the
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journey. Some things that we're going to
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discuss today. If you guys are curious, this is
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what I'm excited about is why emotional intelligence might be
1:00
the most underrated skill in business.
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The role EQ plays in leadership, decision making and scale in the
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company, how founders can build stronger teams, culture and
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trust, and some actionable things that you can do today to
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increase your level of EQ. So let's get into it.
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So I think we need to start with this because everyone, you know,
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everyone's heard the word emotional intelligence EQ.
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But what does an emotional intelligence actually mean, and
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why does it matter for founders? Well, it's the understanding,
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the knowing, the responding to emotions within yourself and
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with others. People typically think that it
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means you're, you're just calm all the time and it's not true.
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More so that you know how to stay regulated under pressure.
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And so the more you're able to master how emotions show up
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within your body and your responses and how you're able to
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regulate when emotions show up for somebody else, you know, So
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to my parents out there who, you know, you see your kids having a
1:58
tantrum, we will also match them.
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And that's not helpful. And so it's really the skill of
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being smart about feelings. Now I've read this the the kind
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of the five different types or elements of EQ.
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Do you subscribe to this? Self-awareness, self regulation,
2:18
motivation, empathy, social skills.
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Yes, they are. They we use different names.
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I would put motivation under the self regulation.
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So I think a bit more under like 4 domains.
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So the self-awareness, the self regulation or self management,
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the social awareness and then relationship management.
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So it's kind of like 2 that have to do with you and two that have
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to do with everybody else. OK, can we break each one of
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those down? Like what is self-awareness and
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can you gain more? Can you become more self aware?
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Yes, and you have to, you have to. self-awareness is the
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bedrock of emotional intelligence.
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It is where not only are you aware of the emotion, like
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naming it, oh, I'm happy, I'm sad, I'm angry, but it's also
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being aware of how it's showing up in your body.
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So when you're angry, what does your body do?
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For some people, they get hot, they get tense, you know, they
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clench up. We don't practice taking a pause
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and being able to ask ourselves like, what am I feeling right
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now? Sometimes we're so quick to
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maybe name it that it's like, OK, but where is it showing up
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for you? Because our bodies will let us
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know how we feel sooner than the thought pops in going like, oh,
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I think I'm angry or I think I'm hungry or whatever it is.
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But the thing that I like to add is that for those who have
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experienced trauma, like either physical trauma or sexual
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trauma, where you may have learned to disassociate yourself
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from your body because either you felt like your body reacted
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in a way that you didn't want or you know, it, it it just was
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possibly given a narrative that what you're feeling is not
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necessarily true. So if OK, if you said no, but
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your body said yes, or what happened to you didn't really
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happen to you. If you're gas lit, lit from
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external individuals, you'll just go, I can't trust it, you
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know. So even when you have that gut
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feeling like maybe this isn't the right thing to do or I'm not
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sure about going into this place, or should I trust this
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person? Learn to start practicing that
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pause and going, OK, No, my body is feeling tense.
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What does that mean? Because feelings are just data,
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you know, it's not always fact, but they are data.
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They're there to give us information for us to become
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more of self auditors. Like what is happening to me in
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the moment? And to your second point of
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like, can we increase it? Yeah, definitely by practicing
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the simple question of how am I feeling right now?
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And it seems so simple. But like as I said, if you have
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history of trauma, that's not an easy question.
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We can gaslight ourselves to be like, or we will add an emotion
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to an emotion. Like it's just so stupid that
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I'm anxious about this. Or you're angry that you're
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angry, which doesn't allow you actually to get to the root of
5:13
what you're feeling. You know, now you're so focused
5:15
on the judgmental emotion that you can't actually sit with the
5:19
real emotion that you're feeling.
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So taking that moment, you know, first thing in the morning
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without judgement, how am I feeling right now?
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You know, is it a new project that's happening today?
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Is that excitement or is that worry?
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You know, how did I sleep? Am I tired?
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What do I may need to do so that like I don't Jack up everybody
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else's day because I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, those
5:44
types of things. And then, you know, maybe at
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lunchtime and then maybe right before you go to bed, like how
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do I feel about the day? The more you can practice in
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real time. Just asking yourself, how am I
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feeling? What is my body doing?
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That's the build up of that awareness muscle because this
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it's literally that just practicing that mindfulness, you
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know, present moment of oh, I need a drink of water.
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I'm a little dehydrated. Oh, I'm actually a little
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hungry. You know, I joke that I'm a
6:13
walking Snickers commercial, like I need to eat.
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So, you know, being aware, like, oh, my irritability is because
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this happened, you know, or, you know, physically, these are the
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things that I need to to keep me regulated, which goes to the
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next point of self regulation or self management.
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I joke in my book that it's the in the wise words of Ice Cube,
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it's the check yourself before you wreck yourself part of the
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skill. So this is where we are learning
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to find ways to manage and regulate ourselves in healthy
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ways. We have learned to regulate, but
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not always in healthy ways. Sometimes we go, I just need a
6:53
glass of wine. OK, there's nothing wrong with
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the glass of wine, but if you're always reaching for liquor or
7:02
food or a person, yeah, then you might not actually be
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regulating. You might be avoiding.
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You might be, you know. That's an interesting one.
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Can we pause on that? Because you know, there's a lot
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of founders listening right now and then after a long day's work
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and then sometimes that ends up being every single day because
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they work hard. Every day is like after work I'm
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going to pour myself a glass of wine or a couple glass of wine
7:24
or a few beers and I think part. Of just to get.
7:26
The edge off, yeah. And people just say that's just
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kind of helps me wind down. It helps me kind of relax, you
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know? I've worked my ass off all day.
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I deserve it, whatever it might be.
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We've normalized the alcohol consumption on almost a daily
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basis. What's really going on in
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someone's in in their mind when they're doing this?
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Yeah. And the question is to to your
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point, what's the narrative? What's the story?
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Where did I learn this? Am I actually winding down or am
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I trying to numb an emotion that I don't feel like dealing with
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right now? Am I taking the build up of the
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day and pushing it and to the next day?
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And then, you know, if it's every single day, this is your
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routine, what are we not dealing with?
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What are we not addressing? Again, there's nothing wrong.
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I'm not knocking anyone who's like what's wrong with a glass
8:15
of wine? Not knocking that or a beer or
8:18
whatever, but ask yourself, is that your go to every time
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you're stressed? Because it might not just be the
8:25
day, it could be the weekend and you're not working right?
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That's right. But you had a conversation that
8:29
was uncomfortable, then all of a sudden I'm reaching for that
8:32
bottle. So we don't want to start
8:35
creating another problem, trying to avoid a problem.
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And so it's really asking yourself, why do I choose this
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as my form of regulation? And I think too, I think people
8:45
listening might say, because I've been here too, I think a
8:47
lot of us have where it's like, I'm drinking too much wine or
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I'm doing this too much or spending this much time on the
8:53
phone or whatever it is. Yeah, whatever it is, right?
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And I think a lot of people listening would say, OK, Farah,
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but I don't, there's nothing I'm hiding from.
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I don't have some big problem. I just like drinking some wine
9:05
or having some beers after work, you know?
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Do you think there's? Do you think?
9:09
But I think, do you think there's something probably
9:11
underneath that, that there's nothing?
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That we do that does not have a root story.
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Yeah, Even the things that we enjoy that are positive, we do
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it for a reason. It reminds us of something.
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It it it fills something up for us.
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So it's like, oh, I like to paint.
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Well, why do you like to paint? Well, when I was 5, you know, me
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and my mom, like, if you really take a moment and think back,
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oh, this is when I started doing that, you know, because it could
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have been that you started to do, you know, drink when you
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were in law school. I'm just thinking because I was
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working with a, a law firm last week, you know, and it was to
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help me, you know, study for exams or after an exam.
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This is how I rewarded myself for, for pushing through.
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So ask yourself, like, when did this habit start and has it
10:00
maintained or has it increased? Right.
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You know, like you said, you'd go for one, but then now it's 2
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and now it's the whole bottle. That's exactly, Oh, am I getting
10:10
better with regulating my emotions or am I needing more to
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numb the pain? And so when I talk about that
10:16
self management piece, it's the have I learned how to take a,
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you know, take a breath. Can I count to 10?
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I joke some of y'all may need to count to 100 or more.
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No judgement. It's just like whatever you need
10:28
to do to find that homeostasis of where your internal
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monologue, your place of capacity is at this place where
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you kind of go, yes, there's chaos around me, yet I can be
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the calm in the storm you. Know what else is interesting
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too? Yeah.
10:45
We take vacations and it's like instantly drinking and alcohol
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has is mandatory for every vacation.
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It's like I'm going to let loose for a lot for a lot, right.
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Yeah, for some they do not do that.
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But. And again, no judgement here.
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You can do whatever you want, but I just.
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I think we should ask ourselves why.
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I think we should be curious as to why we're telling ourselves
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the story that a vacation means drinking every single day.
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Yeah. While.
11:08
And now and just being, you know.
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Overeating. And then coming back, feeling
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like shit, eating bad. Is that a vacation?
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Or is that what we've painted at the story, or someone else's
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painted the story in our mind of what a vacation should be?
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Again, there's like micro cultures, you know, sometimes
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drinking is part of a culture and it's just like, OK, you
11:26
know, but just because something's part of your
11:28
culture, you still need to ask yourself as an individual, does
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it serve me? Yeah.
11:32
You know, so there's things that we may have had in our own micro
11:35
culture of family and then we may have it if we come from
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different ethnic backgrounds, you know, So we expand the lens
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a little bit more and then we expand it a little bit more.
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But even if you're talking about your own family, do you have
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siblings? Yeah.
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OK. Do you think he had the same
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experience you had? No, definitely not.
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OK, older or younger? Older.
11:54
OK, OK, see I'm an oldest house, so yes, I I can already resonate
11:58
with. You.
11:58
Yeah, for sure. You had different parents, they
12:01
were in probably a different, you know, financial bracket.
12:04
They were probably were in a different level of of stress and
12:06
managing and age wise in terms of wisdom and understanding.
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So if you within your own family that you have your own familial
12:15
culture are having different experiences, why are we not
12:20
viewing that from a larger lens? You know, So it's like, OK,
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well, within my family, we all drink and you might be that one
12:26
person and goes, but I don't feel like drinking is working
12:29
for me. What's wrong with that?
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You know, it's like if it works for them, which it probably
12:35
really isn't, but you know, if it works for them, OK.
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But as an individual, how do you still have agency in the midst
12:42
of a culture that rewards drinking?
12:44
And, you know, for for those who are, you know, networking and
12:47
it's always like at a networking event after work event, you
12:50
know, there's always alcohol. And if you're the lone person
12:52
that doesn't drink, people are looking at you like, Are you
12:55
sure? Are you OK?
12:56
Do you have a problem? And it was like, well, it's not
12:59
of your business. And you never know if that's
13:00
person's coming out of recovery. You don't know if they have an
13:05
allergy because there is some folks that have some.
13:09
What is it alcohol? What is the word that I'm
13:14
looking for? Yeah, they're basically allergic
13:15
to. Alcohol, yeah, there's a term
13:17
for it. And, you know, and then there's
13:20
some people who are like, I don't even like the taste and or
13:23
stories. Like my dad was an alcoholic and
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I promised I would never do the same thing.
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Or you just want to be clear. You want to be.
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You don't want to be foggy. Yes, I want to.
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Be able to be. Exactly.
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I want to be aware of what's happening, you know, and
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especially for women, you know, I want to make sure that it's a
13:36
safe space for me. So it's, it's very interesting
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when someone recognizes that they have a habit like drinking,
13:46
you not drinking. Sometimes they're projecting
13:48
their discomfort that you found a way to manage all of your
13:54
emotions and whatever in a sober minded way that triggers them,
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you know, So that's where I think sometimes the peer
14:02
pressure comes in or the judgement or like, ah, you know,
14:05
you're just a weakling or whatever.
14:07
Again, it's like, what's the story that they're telling
14:09
themselves? And then you not doing it is
14:12
highlighting that story that they're telling themselves.
14:14
And so I don't want to deal with the shame.
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So I'm going to project that shame onto you.
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Really. They're jealous because you're
14:19
strong and you're able to say no and they.
14:21
In that area, right? You know, and so, and then there
14:23
are some people who just have this need to, I want everybody
14:27
to be happy and we're all doing something together.
14:30
You know, I don't want to leave anybody out.
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So there's different things and nuances that happen in that
14:35
moment. But yeah, it's you.
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To your earlier point, it is really to ask that question, you
14:40
know, am I doing this to serve me better?
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Is this actually helpful or is there a story that I've put here
14:47
that helps me to kind of disassociate, numb and mask
14:52
things that I actually just don't want to deal with right
14:54
now? Yeah, that's, that's always the
14:55
key. Just get curious, ask yourself
14:57
what's really going on. Obviously alcohol is a part of
15:00
our culture in a certain way and societies and things like that.
15:03
And so again, I'm not condemning it.
15:04
I enjoy my wine and stuff, but but I'm also considering like
15:07
maybe I want to just not do any of it and just see how that
15:09
feels for three months or something, right.
15:12
And just, I think, again, have you tried the other alternative?
15:15
Have you given yourself an opportunities to see what it's
15:17
like? Because you may go, whoa, this
15:19
is a whole new world that actually like way better.
15:21
Yeah, than the other one. And I think you could use this.
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You could use this example for almost anything that we do in
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life. Oh, let me try something else
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and see if this works and service me better.
15:29
Yeah, and I mean, and our brains thrive off of novelty.
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And at the same time, we live in this cognitive dissonance
15:35
because our brain also thrives on keeping us safe.
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And comfortable, yeah. Comfortable.
15:40
So it's like. It is a.
15:41
It is an interesting dynamic. It is a very interesting dynamic
15:44
and and we have to figure out a way to kind of like walk that
15:47
that that line of how am I evolving and, and getting my
15:53
brain to stay plastic. That neuroplasticity of like
15:57
change and growth and, and emerging and evolving at the
16:00
same time, recognizing it's also like, can we stay safe?
16:02
Can we keep it simple? Yeah, exactly.
16:04
Can we do what we've already learned to do?
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Yeah. So so that growth is is doing
16:10
those micro experiments like you said, like, oh, what would it be
16:13
like if, you know, if I'm typically drinking every weekend
16:16
to not do it for a month, you know, how will I feel?
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Does do I recognize a change in for my body, those type of
16:23
things? I think back to someone who was
16:26
talking about that they were trying to change like their
16:32
eating habits and they didn't realize how bloated they felt,
16:36
you know, after eating, you know, pastas or something or
16:39
breads. And but when you're so used to
16:41
that and your body's been used to that, when you take it out,
16:45
it's like, oh, and then you reintroduce it and your body
16:49
goes like, OK, it's giving you data.
16:53
This is not what's working for me.
16:54
This. I feel lighter without it,
16:56
though. I love the taste.
16:57
How do I maybe incorporate in moderation that kind of stuff?
17:01
But even with COVID, I'm thinking back to not even like
17:04
food and drinking, but just energy.
17:07
So I have a colleague who she was like, man, I loved
17:10
conferences and being around the people and all this other stuff.
17:13
And so we had the lockdown and then the world opens up again
17:16
and she's back to doing work. And she was like, Oh my gosh,
17:20
like, I just wanted me to run to my hotel room after my session,
17:23
which was so not me before. And I was like, well, maybe
17:27
before we were so indoctrinated. And this is what you have to do.
17:32
Like you have to be the extrovert.
17:33
You have to be on. You have to do the the
17:35
networking. And you've learned that your
17:38
body actually enjoys and your mind quiet and some solitude and
17:45
just a moment to, you know, step away for a little bit.
17:47
And so she's trying and it has been trying for the last couple
17:51
years of like managing this new normal for her where she's like,
17:55
I thought I was that person. But now I realize I'm actually
17:58
more aligned with this person who due to external
18:01
circumstances out of my control, highlighted for me that I was
18:04
operating here and not here. Like great, like here, like I am
18:09
on all the time. And to bring it down and go
18:12
like, actually, this is this is the level that I want to be
18:14
operating in. And so that really requires us
18:17
to, like you said, get curious, be self auditors, really ask
18:22
ourselves, like, is this how I want to continue?
18:24
Is this how I want to show up? How does this feel in my body?
18:26
How does this feel in my heart? How does this feel in my mind?
18:29
Does it give me clarity? Does it give me energy?
18:32
I just don't think we do that enough.
18:34
I agree from a business owner standpoint, let's put ourselves
18:37
in the shoes of a founder. You're running a company, maybe
18:39
got a small team, medium sized, large team, whatever it is.
18:43
Where does self-awareness show up for a business owner?
18:45
How do you know if you're not being self aware?
18:48
Or how do you know if maybe you are being self aware?
18:49
What would the signs be? Oh, goodness.
18:53
The word that I often say is, is the F word that founders don't
18:58
like and leaders don't like and people in general don't like.
19:02
And it's feedback. Like you cannot have
19:06
self-awareness absent of feedback.
19:08
You can sit there and say and and we just talked about
19:11
parenting. So, you know, you can say, oh,
19:14
I'm the most patient partner. I'm the most patient dad.
19:17
I'm OK. Let me ask your kids.
19:20
Right. And so the same thing.
19:22
If you're a founder and you think that you're a great
19:24
listener, you think that you are open to ideas, you think that
19:29
you are leading by example and in a great way.
19:33
Let me ask your team that. Would your team say the same
19:36
thing about you that you say about yourself?
19:38
And if it you hesitate in that moment, then the answer's
19:41
probably no. So, you know, we'll have this
19:44
way of thinking more grand of ourselves than we actually are.
19:48
And so the practice of increasing yourself awareness
19:51
and to make sure that you're landing on others the way that
19:55
you want to land on others is literally asking like, hey, how
19:58
am I showing up for you? You know, I thought that I was
20:02
really patient in this meeting, you know, was I?
20:05
It's uncomfortable to ask. How do you ask for that feedback
20:09
without them saying, oh, no, far, you're my boss, like you.
20:11
You're yeah, you're right. No, you're totally fine, right.
20:16
Like how do you get real feedback?
20:17
The real feedback my, my brain is going multiple places.
20:22
So to y'all listening, I got ADHD.
20:24
So the dots are connecting, but it takes a little while
20:26
sometimes because the, the vision that I'm seeing in my
20:31
head is point. There's a hierarchy that's,
20:34
that's there. You know, you're the boss.
20:36
Can I really say something to you?
20:37
So now you've actually started going down the, the, the street
20:41
of psychological safety. Is it actually safe for me to
20:44
give you feedback if you're as a boss saying, oh, I have an, you
20:47
know, an environment, A-Team, a culture that's totally open?
20:52
Maybe. Maybe.
20:54
And so sometimes it starts with not necessarily at work.
20:59
Is this a practice that you're doing at home?
21:02
Is this a practice that you're doing with your friends?
21:04
Hey, can I, can I ask you an opinion?
21:06
You know, this is how this meeting panned out today.
21:09
This is how I responded. How would that have landed on
21:12
you? Then they can, you know, so you
21:14
in a way you can kind of cheat and find your safe people.
21:18
Hopefully they're your partner or your dear friend and you have
21:22
not created a unsafe relationship there that they can
21:25
be real with you. And then at work, it's like, is
21:30
there someone who is not necessarily a direct report that
21:35
that's several levels below you, but someone that you can almost
21:39
view as a peer, ask them that question.
21:42
Or even in a group meeting, just get the general feedback, not
21:48
necessarily about you, but just kind of like, hey, how do you
21:50
all think that today's session went?
21:52
You know, is there something that we missed?
21:54
If there could be a question that you, you know, didn't get a
21:58
chance to ask and you can ask now, what would it be?
22:00
Or, you know, again, some people are slower processors.
22:04
Can you shoot me an e-mail afterwards about how you thought
22:08
this this landed? But that has to be feedback, has
22:11
to be part of the culture. It can't be this one off.
22:15
Let me ask you today and never ask you again.
22:17
It has to be right after the meeting, in the meeting, during
22:21
the one on ones during the end of the year, you know,
22:24
performance reviews. What I often see is founders and
22:27
leaders, managers, whomever are waiting until the end and it's
22:32
not even to get feedback for themselves.
22:34
It's to give feedback, which is really not even true feedback to
22:37
their team members. That's very opinionated and,
22:40
and, and very subjective. If it's part of your day-to-day
22:44
conversation, Hey, how do you feel about that?
22:48
You know, I'm thinking about this, but I would love to get
22:50
your, your, your thoughts on it, if that is what you're doing on
22:55
a day-to-day. And here's a key thing when they
22:59
give you the feedback. How are you?
23:02
Responding so this is the whole check yourself before you wreck
23:05
yourself the self management piece if you have not learned
23:08
how to stay regulated while getting uncomfortable.
23:12
Very frank, maybe very critical feedback.
23:17
They're going to shut down and not give it to you.
23:20
You know, unless you have a Jackass that works and just
23:22
doesn't care and be like, I'll, I'll tell you exactly how I feel
23:25
about you. And they already probably are
23:27
getting ready to update their LinkedIn and exactly.
23:30
So they don't care. But if it's if it's true and
23:36
authentic that this is what you want, you have to be able to sit
23:41
and take it and they have to watch you process it without
23:46
knowing that there's going to be retribution consequences you
23:53
using it against them. So let's say we're in a.
23:57
Meeting, I'm the employee, you're the boss, the leader, and
24:01
I say far. I think in that meeting, you're
24:03
pretty abrasive towards one of the, you know, the employees.
24:06
I think you just came across like you're a little bit angry
24:09
instead of trying to, like, help inspire people.
24:10
Yeah. What do you say then if we're in
24:12
this conversation right now? I'm like, yeah, kind of
24:14
abrasive. And I think it came across a
24:16
little harsh. Ouch.
24:18
You know, so OK, two different leaders.
24:22
So you got one leader that would go.
24:26
You know what? I think you.
24:26
Might be right if that leader is aware and they recognized they
24:30
didn't have their Snickers, if they recognize, you know,
24:36
someone cut them off on the way to work or they're dealing with
24:38
some personal stuff and it's popping up in the meeting.
24:43
Giving that feedback is like, I can't lie you.
24:47
You're right that that was that was wrong.
24:49
There was no need for me to to raise my voice in that manner.
24:54
I have a lot of stuff going on right now.
24:55
That's not an excuse, but I need to make things right.
25:00
And to the hold yourself accountable, go directly to that
25:04
person and say you apologize. And then also go to the team and
25:09
say hey in the meeting earlier today or the following day, hey,
25:13
in the meeting yesterday, I have some personal things going on.
25:17
I took it out on Janet and I apologize to her and I apologize
25:23
to you all because that's not the dynamic that I want here in
25:26
our team. That's a good leader.
25:27
That's a high EQ, great leader. Then you have others who will be
25:32
like, well, what exactly do you mean?
25:34
What do you mean? I was abrasive.
25:36
Like what did I say? Did I say something wrong
25:39
instantly on the? Defensive now as an employee I'm
25:40
thinking oh shit they're challenging me and they're my
25:43
boss and maybe am I out of line for saying this in the 1st place
25:46
because they're going. To, you know, it's great to be
25:49
able to give feedback and make sure that when you're giving it,
25:52
you're giving clear examples, right, right.
25:55
So don't just be like, oh, I think that was a little bit
25:57
abrasive. What?
26:00
What was abrasive right now, you said?
26:02
This to Janet in this way. I think it made her feel this
26:05
way. I felt this way.
26:07
Yeah, you're right, given. Clear examples because you know,
26:10
and I've had this happen in in work and at home where it's
26:15
like, well, Farah, you know, you showed up this way.
26:18
OK, can you give me an example? Well, I, I, I can't.
26:22
And I said, well, how do you want me to change if I can't
26:25
have a reference point to when something like this happens
26:29
again, this is what I will do different.
26:31
So now you're just giving me an opinion and not actually giving
26:34
me true feedback where I can follow, you know, some kind of
26:38
direction. So, yeah, if you're that
26:40
employer and was like, hey, I think this this was a little
26:42
abrasive and I get defensive that well, you know, the issue
26:47
is, you know, you guys don't listen like we, we are working
26:50
on a deadline here and you guys don't see the urgency.
26:53
And this is where, again, defensiveness kicks in.
26:56
The person's like, well, I'd and if they can hold their ground,
26:59
if they have high EQ because sometimes you have to like
27:02
manage up. OK.
27:05
I get that it's hard, but do you want us to show up for our
27:09
client in the best way if that's what you want?
27:12
We need to have higher morale and that's going to be killing
27:15
morale if you continue to talk to Janet that way and any of us
27:17
that way. It can take.
27:21
And, and I want to give be gracious here.
27:24
You can still be a jerk in that moment as a leader, be defensive
27:28
as hell. They feel like, all right, well,
27:31
it's like talking to the wall. But if you have some kind of
27:34
sense, a, a morsel of sense to then sit back, maybe even call a
27:43
colleague, A fellow founder, someone you can trust, a mentor
27:47
and share that conversation, process that conversation and
27:53
then come back to that person going like, Hey, you know,
27:55
earlier when you told me that and I didn't want to hear it, I,
28:00
I heard it and I hear you now. My when I do my training and
28:05
facilitating and coaching, I'm always saying you can have a low
28:09
EQ reaction. Just make sure you rebound with
28:12
a high EQ response. That's good.
28:14
Because you're going to step in. Crap, all the time.
28:17
There is no one that's. Walking around with clean shoes,
28:19
like at some point you're going to step in some poop.
28:22
And The thing is, what do you do to recover?
28:26
And if you are not recovering with your people, your people
28:30
are not going to trust you, you know?
28:32
So it's like you could have those bad moments, but you have
28:35
to learn how to recover. That is a great point.
28:38
What if you disagree with the feedback that your employees
28:40
give you? You just genuinely, you're not
28:42
getting defensive. You're just like, I think that's
28:44
off. I just, they see it one way, but
28:47
it's like, no, the reason I was doing is something totally
28:49
different. What if it's just like
28:50
completely off? That's Is that always the case?
28:59
Let's just say it's a. Once in a while thing, I knew
29:02
maybe an employee's been with you a few months, they bring
29:04
something to you how you're showing up.
29:07
They'd be giving an example, but it's just kind of, it's just
29:10
off. Or maybe you were holding
29:12
someone accountable the right way, but they felt like, hey, I
29:15
feel like, you know, doing that and you're like, well, no, it's
29:16
part of our culture. Like we want to hold people
29:18
accountable and have high standards and that kind of
29:19
stuff. Yeah, I think we have to again
29:24
the the feedback goes both ways. And there's times where we.
29:28
Can actually, you know, miss each miss each other where you
29:33
know, how you think you're showing up is not necessarily
29:37
landing on that person in a way that you thought was productive
29:42
or positive. You know, I even say this when
29:45
when discussing, you know, topics like allyship, you know,
29:49
it's like, well, you know, it's not about the intent, it's about
29:53
the impact. So if the impact is not what you
29:57
wanted, then you may need to change how that's happening now.
30:02
At the same time, sometimes people really do need context.
30:06
And so once they receive the context, it's like, OK, now this
30:11
makes more sense. Often times we are making
30:13
decisions, we are showing up with certain behaviors that our
30:19
our direct reports, our colleagues have no clue where
30:22
it's coming from. We've all figured it out in our
30:25
head. We're like, you don't understand
30:26
how I'm actually making your life better.
30:29
And they're like, are you? And it's like, how do you not
30:32
know? But if you this, this goes to we
30:34
didn't get a chance to talk about it earlier when we were
30:37
breaking the two that have to do with you and the two domains
30:40
have to do with others. The relationship management
30:42
piece is the effect of communication.
30:45
It's being able to mitigate conflict.
30:47
It's being able to have the dialogue where people feel like
30:54
you considered them. And oftentimes we will move from
30:58
what we think is a very empathetic and, and altruistic,
31:07
you know, kind of way. And the, the person we're
31:09
receiving in was like, I didn't ask for that.
31:12
You know, I, who told you that's what I wanted.
31:15
It was like, but, you know, bring people into the process
31:21
with you and then they can kind of see your perspective a little
31:26
bit more. They may not agree.
31:27
And the whole thing about empathy is not, it's not about
31:29
agreeing. It's about understanding.
31:31
And people misunderstand that. Oh, that means I have to be
31:34
agreeable. No, it it's OK, I'm coming to
31:38
see your point of view. I'm coming alongside you and
31:41
trying to help you to get to wherever it is that you need to
31:43
go. Sometimes that help helping is
31:47
listening. Sometimes the helping is
31:49
financially. Sometimes that helping is
31:51
something physical. But it does not mean that you
31:55
enable, it's that you are there to hold space for them while
32:01
also keeping them accountable for whatever it is that they
32:05
need to do. So when the feedback seems like
32:08
something is not aligning, there may need to be better
32:12
communication. Some of the worst people I've
32:15
worked with are the most defensive people and it was just
32:19
like brutal working with them, you know, because like, and even
32:22
before you were going to give feedback or ask for feedback or
32:25
whatever it is, you would just feel like they're going to get
32:28
instantly, like they're going to get on the defensive right away.
32:32
And, and I go back to those people and those people are not
32:34
same people are also not very growth minded.
32:37
They're not very curious. They're not developing
32:40
themselves. I think it's all goes back to if
32:42
you believe in growing yourself, you know, mentally, spiritually,
32:45
physical, whatever that looks like in your business.
32:48
Then part of that is. That.
32:51
Knowing. Thyself self regulation working
32:54
on relationships being able to take feedback you lean into that
32:57
stuff, even though sometimes it stings I mean sometimes it hurts
33:00
to get to get tough feedback yes and it's like damn that fucking
33:04
stinks yes I. Didn't think I was showing up.
33:06
Like that. But I guess I am but your
33:08
ability to yeah, I think and I even I would just encourage
33:11
leaders to pause after the feedback and just say what?
33:14
What? Could be true, yeah, yeah,
33:16
that's. Interesting.
33:17
Yeah. Tell me more about that.
33:19
You know, and as if you've seen this before, this is
33:21
interesting. I'm going to process this.
33:23
You might need time to, you might say, let me process this
33:25
for the next 24 hours and can we talk about it?
33:27
You know, then if you need to, you might be able to just have
33:29
the conversation then. But I think the point is, yeah,
33:31
it's one, really taking it and learning something and being
33:33
aware of it. And two, making sure that you're
33:35
making your team or those around you, your family, yeah, feel
33:38
like that they can have those conversations with you.
33:41
The. Defense comes from, you know, a
33:45
low EQ position. And when I say someone has low
33:50
emotional intelligence is that they're highly reactive.
33:53
They don't know how to respond because they're operating from,
33:57
in a way, their lower brain. You know, they're operating from
34:00
their survival brain, which is fight, flight, freeze, fawn.
34:03
They have a very overacted, overactive amygdala, which is
34:07
where all of our feelings are and where our high EQ is, is our
34:12
prefrontal cortex. That's where our rational
34:15
thinking logic, common sense comes from.
34:18
And if you don't know how to regulate yourself, you actually
34:23
can't like reach like to that higher, you know, brain to go
34:28
like, wait, no, there's a better way to handle this.
34:31
We're immediate reactive primitive brain just going into
34:36
save. I need to save myself.
34:38
I have to say safe. And is that ego, do you think?
34:41
Ego. Is the enemy so.
34:42
Ego and that is also so family of origin trauma, you know,
34:49
learned narratives. And so when I was like, you
34:53
know, I'm a student of emotional intelligence, though yes, I
34:56
teach on it and facilitate. I'm still a student.
34:59
Of course, it's not something like you, there's this apex and
35:02
you reach it. It's like, no, congratulations.
35:04
You've done it. No, it's it's.
35:05
Literally every moment to moment is an opportunity for you to
35:08
practice emotional intelligence. And so when I was like, even
35:13
thinking about, you know, this work.
35:17
Maybe because of my? Clinical background.
35:18
I was like, why? Why are we not talking about
35:21
emotional narratives? Like, why are we not talking
35:23
about like how we even learned about feelings?
35:26
You know, we, we, we talk about it in a very practical or
35:30
theoretical sense. However, for you to be smart
35:35
about emotions, you need to even know where you learned about
35:39
emotions. So if our family of origin, you
35:42
learned to sweep everything under the rug, you learned how
35:45
to keep the peace, you learned how to mask and pretend that
35:48
everything is fine, Do you not think that's not showing up at
35:52
work? If you learned that to be
35:55
aggressive, to to be sarcastic, to maybe be physical and that's
36:02
what gets your way and that's how you express, you know, power
36:06
and anger, how's that not showing up for you at work?
36:11
So when you see the defensiveness, there is a story
36:14
there of either I'm not competent.
36:17
I'm there's a fear of something going to be taken from me.
36:21
Like what are you taking away from me?
36:23
You know, the possibility for advancement.
36:25
Are you questioning my my identity?
36:30
All of these things are playing in their minds and it does not
36:34
allow them to, like you said, you know, have this growth
36:37
mindset. They're very stuck in survival
36:40
mode. And So what we're thinking is
36:42
resistance. You know, we're thinking we're
36:44
dealing with a jerk. As someone who has not regulated
36:47
their ego, I think it's like low.
36:49
Self esteem too, in a lot of ways too, isn't it?
36:51
It could be. It could be think.
36:52
About like, you know everything. We're describing here and not to
36:55
get, I won't get political here, but like there are certain
36:58
leaders in this country, we're just.
37:00
Describing. You know, with like very, I mean
37:04
bottom of the bottom low EQ where I go, wow, they're
37:07
defensive, they're always right, never wrong.
37:10
If something bad happens, it's not them, it's the other people.
37:12
If something good happens, it's all of them.
37:15
And I'm thinking, man, that's like the lowest of low EQ.
37:18
Yeah, like there's no and I think it's ego.
37:21
It's probably insecurities. Never leaning in to say, hey,
37:25
tell me more about that or what what makes you feel that way or
37:28
OK, you know, because they would have to deal with.
37:30
It right. And So what do we deal?
37:31
How do we deal with those? People, do we just not have them
37:34
in our lives? Yeah, in certain capacities it's
37:36
almost impossible to get. But but I'm just, you know, you
37:39
run across those people. It's like, can you change those
37:41
people? Do you try to get those
37:43
question? All the time they're like, what
37:45
what do we do with the low EQ folks that like stay there, you
37:49
like because you know, we all can have low EQ moments, but
37:51
there are people who just and don't.
37:53
Seem to. Want to grow?
37:54
Out of it, right? They've they've.
37:55
They pay a mortgage like they've like, this is the residence of
37:59
where I want to be. And the answer is you.
38:04
You can't you, you can't you. You only have control over
38:08
yourself. So you model the the way you
38:12
want other people to show up, but you can't make other people
38:16
show up better unless they've made the decision to show up
38:21
better. Like wow, I really like the way
38:23
Alex makes me feel like wow, in this meeting.
38:25
It was tense, but I I watched how he now I watched how he even
38:29
brought his voice down, like he started to go up and then took a
38:33
deep breath. Like, wow.
38:34
Like people are watching you the same way your kids are watching
38:37
you. You know, it's just like they're
38:38
watching you manage difficult situations and see, oh, is this
38:43
what you do? But I think.
38:44
About that all the time, you know, so like.
38:46
My 7 year old, like he'll drop something and he'd be like, uh
38:49
oh. And then I'll look at him and
38:51
then you know, what I've been saying recently was like,
38:54
accidents happen. And so he'll be like, mom,
38:56
accidents happen. Yeah.
38:57
It changes their whole thing. Like am I supposed to be in
39:00
survival mode? Am I about to get in trouble?
39:02
Are you going to get upset with me?
39:04
Are you going with whole love? Yeah, same thing happens at
39:07
work. And so when we run into these
39:09
people, whether it's in the political place or whether it's,
39:12
you know, it's in school or in the workplace or in our own
39:15
business, you have to realize that you, you can't change them
39:19
until they want to be changed. Your responsibility is your your
39:24
nervous system, how you show up, how you stay regulated.
39:28
Hopefully you're modeling it. And because we never know what
39:31
will be the, the, the light that the, the trigger that makes them
39:35
go like this isn't really working out for me, you know,
39:39
like. No one likes.
39:40
Me, you know, like this this this sucks and so something has
39:45
to be a catalyst. I I believe ideally it would be
39:50
it would be awesome for the catalyst to be internal.
39:52
Did you make the decision? But sometimes it's an external
39:55
catalyst that's like, yeah, you've been let go like five
39:59
times in in three years because. Your attitude sucks.
40:04
What are you going to do about it?
40:05
You know? But then there's some people
40:07
that you just can't out coach, right?
40:10
How do you look at the difference between EQ and IQ,
40:13
especially today in the world of AI where it seems like IQ's not
40:17
as important as it once was? I wish it.
40:19
Was well, IQ, you can't necessarily increase that, like,
40:27
however your intelligence is like to some level.
40:31
But there's, you know, I remember when you would take
40:33
tests, it's like, you know, your aptitude.
40:34
Yeah. So there's this window.
40:36
Yeah, that's your computer. Processing chip, right, Yeah,
40:39
it's. Like, you know, you, you already
40:41
have this, this natural ability to be so smart.
40:47
Emotional intelligence is literally wide open.
40:50
Like it's up to you to decide how well you want to embody
40:55
feelings, experience feelings from others.
40:58
And, and you have moments. Like I said, every single day,
41:01
every single moment is an opportunity to figure out like
41:04
is, is that how I want to show up?
41:07
OK. And it's so easy.
41:08
I was listening to something on my way here that I was like, oh,
41:12
this is so aligned with my work. And it was just like, again, all
41:15
about like nervous system reset and was like, if you are just
41:19
consuming information and consuming knowledge and you
41:22
know, all of the EQ frameworks and you know, you can talk with
41:27
the best of them. You know, you're with Travis
41:28
Badberry and and Daniel Goldman and you're like, yes, EQ this
41:32
and EQ that, and then something happens at work and you lose it.
41:40
What have you been actually? Putting into practice.
41:43
And so it's really the not how I've learned to do do
41:49
meditation. Well, yeah, that's a very
41:51
curated environment. You turn down the lights, you
41:54
put the candles and you, you did the breathing work.
41:58
But when you're on a call with a client who's upset with you and
42:03
they're cussing you out, you can't say, hold on, let me light
42:06
some candles. You.
42:08
Have to decide. In that moment, what do I know?
42:12
What is happening in my body? How do I want to respond?
42:16
What is in my toolbox for regulation?
42:18
Because it can't be lighting candles in this moment.
42:20
It can't be going for a run, you know?
42:22
So it's OK. Do I know how to take a deep
42:26
breath? Am I?
42:27
Am I choosing to be curious in the moment?
42:29
Like, I can hear the frustration in force because usually what
42:32
brings people down is just acknowledgement of their own
42:34
feelings. Like, I could totally understand
42:36
why you were upset right now because you expected one thing
42:40
and we did not deliver. I completely understand.
42:43
Oh, like, all of a sudden they're disarmed.
42:45
Like, oh, OK. Yeah.
42:47
You hear me? So it's like I want to be able
42:49
to address the situation, but I cannot address the situation if
42:52
you're continuing to raise your voice at me, you know, because I
42:55
want to be able to hear you clearly and address your needs.
42:59
Can we, do we do we need to call back in 10 minutes?
43:04
You know, how, how do you want to move forward?
43:06
But just getting to a point where you find a way to say, I'm
43:10
going to level set myself to hopefully help somebody else
43:14
come down with you too. But that can't be external.
43:18
So that is like internal practice every single moment
43:22
when you're when you're in traffic and you're getting
43:25
irritable, what are you doing in the moment?
43:27
I think about that all the time. Because it's easy, like someone
43:29
cuts you off and you're like this person versus saying, you
43:32
know what, it's OK and maybe they're on their way to
43:34
something that someone died. I hope you get there safely.
43:37
Yeah, you're OK. Maybe you have the worst.
43:38
Day of your life yeah you know I think that's just the the self
43:41
regulation right kicking in that you know to your point is that
43:43
we all have our moments but we all have noticing it and saying
43:46
all right that's not how I want to show up or that's not serving
43:48
me I like that phrase that's it was serving not.
43:50
Serving me well and and I love what you what you just did there
43:53
because talking to yourself is actually a positive thing to do
43:57
all the. Time.
43:59
I think there's researchers, you know, it's a level of
44:01
intelligence for those who talk to themselves and
44:03
self-awareness, self-awareness. And so it's like talking out
44:07
loud. And it's funny when I have the
44:09
kids in the car and someone does something crazy and I would go
44:12
like, what was that? You know, they're just like mom
44:16
used to. And I was like, no, I have no
44:18
problem honking a horn. Let me just make this clear.
44:20
But there are times and places where I'm like, is that
44:24
necessary? You know, if that's just your
44:26
reaction because you're upset, I don't need to honk the horn.
44:30
You know, it's just like they're going to realize they're going
44:32
to get to the same stop sign and the same stop light the same
44:36
way. And then there's other times
44:37
where they, you know, they zoom past and it's like, wow, I hope
44:39
you get there safely. You know, there must be an
44:41
emergency. You know, I don't know if they
44:43
have a pregnant woman in the car.
44:45
I don't know if they just heard that, you know, this was the
44:47
last opportunity them for them to see their grandpa.
44:50
I don't know. But if I'm matching the energy
44:55
and it's negative, what does that say about me?
44:58
And that's what that's what it. Is you're letting outside forces
45:01
control your own energy and feelings and emotions.
45:05
And that's where it's like, yeah, you look at someone that
45:06
flips out easily and I'm you just like they don't have very
45:09
good emotional intelligence. No, why are they letting all
45:12
these external factors constantly?
45:13
Why is this getting upset? Them afire.
45:15
And get upset and it's. Like dude.
45:17
Just you got to regulate that, yeah.
45:19
But again, it goes to and people don't like bringing up
45:23
childhood, but it's like what happened that made you feel like
45:28
this is how I need to respond. You know, if, if change was so
45:31
constant and it wasn't exciting, you know, it was always bringing
45:37
some level of instability, then yeah, you're going to have that
45:41
direct report or that colleague that when you're bringing in
45:43
that new policy or that new process, you brought up AI, you
45:47
know, you're, we're going to bring it.
45:49
But what, what do you mean? You know, they're, they're going
45:52
to be resistant, not because they're jerks, it's because you
45:55
haven't done the relationship management piece of effectively
45:59
communicating to lower that threat threshold for them to
46:02
explain, hey, this is how we're going to do it.
46:05
You will get trained so you will understand how to use this.
46:07
This is actually going to help decrease your workload over
46:11
here, which I'm hoping will then enable you to have more space
46:15
to, to be more creative or whatever.
46:18
But usually we just implement stuff and then expect everybody
46:21
in the team to be like, yay, great, another initiative and
46:26
you know, and and show up well. And it's like you didn't explain
46:30
to me why we have this. What is it doing?
46:33
How's it going to impact my day-to-day work?
46:35
Because I have a way of doing stuff.
46:37
And now you've interrupted it. And if you're a person of a
46:41
certain generation who their identity is so attached to their
46:45
work and you sat here and you brought in this tech and they're
46:48
not tech savvy, now they're questioning.
46:51
I used to be very competent here.
46:53
I felt good about this. I showed up.
46:55
Well, my performance was here. Now you brought something that's
46:59
making me uncomfortable, so now I'm second guessing myself.
47:01
So now my engagement and my performance is going down.
47:04
And that's the fear, That's the resistance.
47:07
That's why they're not doing whatever you've told them.
47:09
Like what? No, George, the process is this.
47:12
Now. I don't care about that process.
47:15
OK, is. He really being a jerk or do we
47:18
not communicate effectively and encourage and support him in the
47:22
new shift? So this is the thing where it's
47:25
like, man, that just sounds like extra work file, you know, why
47:28
can't people get together? It's like we're all coming with
47:31
our stuff, and it's nice and ideal to think that we can leave
47:36
our stuff at the door, but we don't.
47:39
And it's going to be in the way we communicate.
47:41
It's going to be in the passive aggressiveness, it's going to be
47:44
in the assertiveness, it's going to be in the avoidance.
47:47
It's going to be in all of that. And so the more you're able as a
47:50
founder, as a leader, as a manager to know how to
47:54
internally regulate, you will be better present when that
47:59
dysregulation happens to those outside.
48:01
So let's say you have 100. Points and.
48:03
Let's say you can distribute these hundred points towards
48:06
either EQ, IQ, mix of both. How much would you put in each
48:11
bucket? I would put more.
48:13
In the EQ bucket, would it be 60 to 40?
48:19
I would say that that. Sounds about right because you
48:21
want them to still have a level of intelligence to be capable to
48:24
do the work critical thinking and solving.
48:27
Problems. Yeah, stuff still matters.
48:29
Yeah, that still matters. And, and even the critical
48:31
thinking, there's this grey overlap between the EQ and the
48:38
IQ because you still need to be a critical thinker because with
48:42
emotional intelligence, when you come to that resolution, when
48:45
you come to whatever is revealed, how are you managing
48:49
those emotions when that comes? It's like you critically think
48:52
about the way that you showed up today and you realize like you
48:55
showed up as a Jackass. How do you feel about that?
48:58
Are you now going to judge yourself like I am the worst
49:00
leader ever? You know, I can't believe these
49:02
people, you know, continue to work for me.
49:04
And I'm now it's, it's not helpful.
49:08
It's not serving. So it's being able to manage the
49:12
information well emotionally handle the, the, the, the, the
49:19
data points, the intellect, the physical, you know, data that
49:24
you're receiving, the emotional data, you're able to do it well.
49:28
And I rather you be more highly emotionally intelligent and
49:33
still need training on skills. Then being.
49:37
Highly skill based and with low EQ, because again, I'm thinking
49:42
about the culture, like if this is going to impede us having a
49:46
healthy work culture because you just don't know how to people.
49:50
So I'm always saying like I'm trying to help people, people
49:52
better. You know, it's like if you don't
49:53
know how to people, it's going to kill the morale.
49:56
It's going to, you know, stop flow, you know, and, and a nice
50:02
flow within the organization. And what I've seen time after
50:05
time is they'll have somebody with high IQ, great in skill,
50:11
great in performance, low EQ, no one wants to work with them.
50:17
And it it devastates teams when leaders don't address it
50:23
quickly. That's like, OK, you let this
50:25
bad actor stay here. And now it's, it's like the bad
50:29
apple that ruins the barrel. Like it starts to seep into
50:32
everybody else. And I've also seen people lose
50:35
opportunities because, like, word came to board members, like
50:40
you're trying to get who to be partner.
50:42
Oh, hell to the no. Like we, we do not agree.
50:47
And they're like, oh, we thought, you know, because he
50:49
was bringing in so much money. It's like if he becomes partner,
50:53
I'm not going to stay. And that's when you start
50:55
realizing like, just because you have a high performer does not
50:58
mean that you're going to keep other top talent around if that
51:01
person is not able to quote UN quote, be coachable and like,
51:05
hey, you got to work on how you're landing on folks because
51:09
it ain't working right now. What's?
51:11
One weak spot for you right now when it comes to EQ.
51:14
What's 1 gap that you see for yourself?
51:17
That's a. No ones ever asked me that
51:19
question that is, and that's so funny because I literally was
51:23
processing this on my way as I was listening to the the pod,
51:27
the other podcast that was talking about that nervous
51:30
system. Well, I think because people
51:31
here you're. Very articulate.
51:33
You have, you know, great insights and I think people
51:35
think, man, where does does she struggle at all?
51:37
I do. And I, I promise you, marriage
51:42
and children are a mirror. Yeah, that's right.
51:45
So I often see it happening in my personal than in my
51:51
professional. And I think This is why I'm so
51:55
adamant about teaching it in the professional spaces because, you
52:00
know, I came from a corporate background.
52:02
My husband stills in corporate when I was seeing therapy
52:05
clients, yes, they're coming home with, with their own
52:08
personal stuff, but work was the majority of their life and they
52:13
were coming with stuff. And I was like, it's so
52:15
interesting how at times we can actually have higher emotional
52:20
intelligence at work with strangers, with people who we
52:24
don't love, but we want to quote, UN quote, show up well
52:28
for them. And we perform, we perform the
52:32
EQ, you know, and then we come home and we're tired and we're,
52:37
we're dysregulated because we've done all of this performance and
52:42
because we know that these people love us and they will
52:45
still accept us at our worst, we will show up with low EQ at
52:49
home. Interesting.
52:51
You know, so it's like. I bit my tongue when you know,
52:55
my boss said this to me or I didn't really respond the way I
53:00
wanted to respond to this client when we had our conversation.
53:04
But now that I'm home, I'm going to either shut down or I'm going
53:08
to be rude and condescending to my partner or to my kids or
53:12
whatever. And they're like, what the hell
53:13
did we do to you? You know, And I was just seeing
53:17
that play out and I was seeing it play out in my home, you
53:20
know, with my husband and even with myself.
53:22
And it was just like, why do we give up the best of ourselves to
53:25
the people that don't really care about us?
53:28
And then the people that we love, we will sit there and just
53:32
bank that they will still be there even when we're not
53:35
treating them in the best way. So I still see for me to keep
53:42
the work that I'm doing authentic is the practice that I
53:46
keep having to do with my kids, not even with my partner.
53:49
I think with him, yeah. You know, it's not 100%.
53:51
We all have our, our short term moments, but because our kids
53:55
are so uniquely different and then sometimes we can see parts
54:00
of ourselves in them, but they, I have 3 and they're so
54:04
different in personality and I have to show up and meet them
54:07
where they are differently. And there are times where I'm
54:10
like, Dang, that wasn't a good mothering moment, you know?
54:15
And what I do appreciate with children is that they're very
54:20
forgiving and very gracious. What I am noticing more and more
54:25
is my intentional practice of recovery being a shorter time
54:30
span. And so, and this is just for
54:33
anyone, it's just like when you're practicing high EQ, what
54:36
you want is that awareness in the moment to not have a huge
54:40
gap. That's a great point you.
54:42
Know what I'm saying? Where it's.
54:43
Like, way after the fact. You're just like 03 years later,
54:46
you know, back when you know. Man and.
54:51
We will do that because we we will just be reacting in the
54:54
moment. I am aware there are times I can
54:57
do it well while I'm in the moment and I can feel the
55:00
agitation in the conversation with my teenager and I got to
55:04
go. He can see it and he's like,
55:07
what? Like what?
55:08
And I'm like, no, Nope, finish what you had to say.
55:12
I'm regulating and you know, we'll finish the conversation.
55:15
Then there's times where I can feel it, but I know I'm not
55:18
regulated enough to address it, but I know that I will be if he
55:23
just gives me a beat. Like we we're done with the
55:25
conversation, but I'm processing in the conversation after the
55:28
conversation. And I would like, like my goal
55:31
is like within that, like 30 minutes afterwards, like, hey,
55:35
like yesterday, literally, you know, my goal is like, don't
55:39
want to ignore the kids on their way to school, don't want to
55:41
know the kids when I pick them up, you know, like this is their
55:43
window to, you know, exhale to prepare for the day and to come
55:48
down from the day. And my sweet teenager had asked
55:51
me. He was like, Hey, mom, how, how
55:53
was your day today? He doesn't always ask this.
55:55
And so I was like, Oh, it was good, You know, it was this and
55:58
was that. And then I was sharing because I
55:59
have ADHD. Everything is connected.
56:01
So without me being intentional, I just started going like, Oh
56:07
yeah, I'm getting these notifications about your grades.
56:10
They weren't so great. And so I was like, which reminds
56:12
me, your third quarter grades weren't so great.
56:15
And so we're having now this conversation car.
56:17
And I'm like, I am doing exactly what I said I don't want to do.
56:21
And I can see his body like, oh, like, really?
56:24
We're talking about this now. And I was keeping my tone
56:27
though, like, hey, this is how me and your dad want to support
56:30
you. Here's where we're going to do
56:31
things differently, blah blah blah blah blah.
56:34
But I was bothered internally like that.
56:37
We're having this conversation now.
56:38
Agreed with everything I said, didn't take anything back.
56:41
The tone was, to me, perfect. But I didn't like it.
56:47
That the timing. So I want to say maybe 20
56:51
minutes later, I was like, hey, you know, we had that
56:53
conversation in the car. He didn't need to have that
56:56
conversation in the car. And I apologize for that.
56:59
I stick to what I've said, but I really should have given you
57:02
space and waited to have that conversation.
57:05
And he was like, agreed. And I appreciate it.
57:08
It's practice like literally daily.
57:11
But I feel like the my kids are the ones to keep me grounded and
57:16
authentic in this work because I never integrity is such a big
57:21
value piece for me. So I never want to teach,
57:24
preach, whatever, anything that I'm not doing myself.
57:28
And so it, it just doesn't land the same way to me.
57:32
And so that's my hardest place, my children.
57:36
I appreciate you sharing. That and I think, you know, any,
57:39
any good parent has plenty of moments where you feel like
57:42
we're, we could have done better.
57:43
And I think if you don't acknowledge that somewhat
57:46
consistently, you're probably not be a good parent because
57:48
you're not even thinking about that shit.
57:49
You know what I mean? That part.
57:50
So yeah, I think that's. So we one of the founder talk
57:54
community, the founders that have been on the show, the group
57:56
chat and stuff. And one of the questions on
57:58
there was what's 1 actionable thing that they can do today to
58:02
elevate your EQ and what result would it give you?
58:05
And maybe we've touched on some of it.
58:07
Some of it, yeah. You know, going back to the, to
58:10
the, the bedrock, which is that awareness piece, if they can
58:13
start one checking in with themselves at least a couple
58:19
times a day, like how do I feel right now?
58:22
And then, you know, after a situation, how do I feel about
58:25
that? Like, how did I feel about that
58:26
conversation? How did I show up and then bring
58:29
in the feedback piece and start incorporating that?
58:33
More often than cuz how many people are on intentionally
58:36
looking out for feedback? Yeah, not many.
58:39
It's really a review. It's a formal thing or I think
58:42
that's one big take away that I took away from this.
58:43
And hopefully you guys listening did is, you know, enter these
58:46
enter each day with intention around how am I showing up, how
58:49
am I feeling? But also am I getting feedback
58:51
and giving feedback? Is it a culture, not just a
58:53
review every three months? Yeah, and it.
58:55
Just how can I make this part of our daily conversation within my
59:00
team, with my colleagues where it's almost like asking like,
59:05
how's the weather? You know?
59:07
So it's just like, yeah, you know, did that run too long?
59:10
Because we're bad at that, you know, meeting running too long.
59:13
You know, it's like, did that run too long?
59:16
Did I give enough space for for people to process?
59:19
Because sometimes we will, especially as founders and
59:22
leaders, we will go to the person who's either the quickest
59:25
to respond, the loudest to respond, or the 1st to respond.
59:30
You know, well, that's the quickest, right?
59:32
And so. But we have different.
59:35
Types of of people working for us, we have people who are more
59:39
a slower in processing. And so it's like maybe in the
59:42
meetings to go, Hey, here's something that that a question
59:48
or you know, something we're putting out there before anyone
59:51
say anything can can we just like wait 20 seconds or so just
59:56
to to process it? And then I'd love to hear what
59:59
you have to say. And then for those who are still
1:00:02
processing. Shoot me an e-mail afterwards
1:00:05
because some people need that time to digest to hear
1:00:07
everybody's perspectives and then go, ah, and usually these
1:00:11
are the introverts who are just great processors, but it just
1:00:14
takes a little longer. So for founders, it's like, one,
1:00:18
start asking yourself, how am I feeling like even in my body,
1:00:22
like, am I becoming more aware of how emotions are showing up
1:00:24
for me? And then two, how am I creating
1:00:28
opportunities for feedback and making it normal?
1:00:32
That's good, yeah. Part of the culture.
1:00:34
Part of the culture you. Wrote a book called the.
1:00:36
Color of emotional intelligence, Yes.
1:00:37
What is that about? And then why?
1:00:38
What made you write that book? OK.
1:00:41
So in essence, the thesis of that book is that if we elevate
1:00:46
our collective EQ, we can create spaces where all of us feel like
1:00:50
we belong, that we're creating psychologically safe spaces for
1:00:54
everyone regardless of their backgrounds.
1:00:57
I highlight how though emotional intelligence in general is a
1:01:03
black and white skill, there's so much color in between.
1:01:09
Because as a person who is either neurodivergent, who's
1:01:15
Black, who is a woman, who is queer, these identities actually
1:01:22
play a role in how we use our emotional intelligence.
1:01:25
And those who have been systemically marginalized are
1:01:28
going to have a higher level of social awareness.
1:01:31
They're going to be reading the room quicker than whoever is the
1:01:34
dominant culture that's in the space, like the street smarts.
1:01:37
Almost right. Yeah, definitely.
1:01:39
And so. You're using EQ almost as a
1:01:41
survival skill and not necessarily a relational skill.
1:01:44
So I highlight that piece, but then like I take it up a notch
1:01:47
just like, OK, so now that you're aware that you're, you
1:01:50
know, your colleagues, your your peers that are of different
1:01:54
ethnic backgrounds or disabilities, etcetera, are
1:01:59
showing up differently in their space.
1:02:00
You know, they're either code switching or masking or just,
1:02:03
you know, presenting and performing that's causing them
1:02:07
to actually not be their full authentic self.
1:02:10
What if you can now practice your own EQ to be aware?
1:02:15
Oh, is the space actually a space for everyone to feel like
1:02:19
they belong? And if it's not, what can I do
1:02:22
with whatever privilege I have to create that space?
1:02:25
Wonderful. Well, sorry, this was an amazing
1:02:28
conversation. I appreciate you coming down.
1:02:30
I was really glued to everything that we're talking about.
1:02:32
And I think I think the audience here is going to get a lot of
1:02:34
value from it and hopefully have some takeaways, yes, to go and
1:02:36
work with themselves, their family, their teams.
1:02:38
I think this is just something that shows up in all.
1:02:41
Areas of your. Life, absolutely.
1:02:43
Where can people? Find you, connect with you,
1:02:45
learn more about what you're doing yes so.
1:02:47
Most of my work is on LinkedIn. If you want to like learn more
1:02:50
about my writing, my thoughts, the the way that you can work
1:02:54
with me, my website is working well daily.com and all the other
1:03:00
socials are just me having fun. So if you really wanted to
1:03:04
connect on a professional level, LinkedIn is definitely where you
1:03:07
can find me. Sounds good.
1:03:08
Well, thanks again for. Being here, thank you for
1:03:10
having. Thank you.
1:03:10
Guys for watching. And we'll see you on the next
1:03:12
one.