Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Why Are So Many Videos About Trafficking Going Viral on Social Media?

Transcript

Why Are So Many Videos About Trafficking Going Viral on Social Media? · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
0:07
Speaker 1: Never told you production. I heart radio. Today. We were
0:19
Speaker 1: so excited to once again be joined by Bridget Todd,
0:22
Speaker 1: one of our very favorite human people. Hello, Bridget, Hello,
0:26
Speaker 1: thank you for having me back. I'm so excited to
0:28
Speaker 1: be here. We're so excited to have you, and some
0:30
Speaker 1: congratulations are in order. Thank you podcast Royalty. Well I
0:38
Speaker 1: know about that, but I did recently get the news
0:42
Speaker 1: that I am a winner of a Shorty Award for
0:45
Speaker 1: Best Podcast Miniseries, and I'm super excited about it. So
0:48
Speaker 1: thank you. Congrats as you deserve because you've worked so
0:51
Speaker 1: hard on your series and I feel like we have
0:55
Speaker 1: been so blessed for the lack of better terms, for
0:58
Speaker 1: having you as a part of a monthly regular I
1:00
Speaker 1: can't say it enough. Thank you so much again for
1:03
Speaker 1: just christening our feed with your delightful series. Oh please,
1:09
Speaker 1: I it is my pleasure and it's it's been such
1:11
Speaker 1: a fun project to work on and honestly, getting to
1:14
Speaker 1: tell the stories of like interesting people who do interesting stuff.
1:17
Speaker 1: I think it's just been such a blessing. So thank you.
1:19
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it, and thank you for continuing to
1:23
Speaker 1: you know, have me on Smiththy to hang out with
1:25
Speaker 1: y'all one. You're always a delight and we love having you.
1:28
Speaker 1: But to you always bring up such fascinating and worthwhile topics,
1:31
Speaker 1: and the one you brought today is one that I
1:34
Speaker 1: wasn't very familiar with. I had like a surface level idea,
1:39
Speaker 1: and reading more about it, I wasn't too surprised with
1:44
Speaker 1: any of the information, but I didn't know a lot
1:47
Speaker 1: about it. So I'm very excited that you brought this
1:50
Speaker 1: topic today so that we can all learn more. So
1:54
Speaker 1: what did you bring us to talk about? So today
1:56
Speaker 1: I really am excited to talk about what's going on
1:59
Speaker 1: with at picking. Anybody who's been reading the news for
2:02
Speaker 1: the last couple of years probably knows that we're in
2:05
Speaker 1: the middle of like what you might think of as
2:06
Speaker 1: a moral panic around trafficking. I remember was it last
2:10
Speaker 1: year where claims on the platform TikTok went viral that
2:15
Speaker 1: the furniture retailer Wayfarer was trafficking children on their online
2:20
Speaker 1: site that if you bought, you know, a cabinet that
2:23
Speaker 1: had the name Maria, the price was exorbited and that
2:27
Speaker 1: meant that you were actually buying a missing person named Maria.
2:30
Speaker 1: This was all bunked, This was not true. But these
2:32
Speaker 1: claims have been going viral lately, and if you spend
2:35
Speaker 1: any time at all on the platform TikTok, you've probably
2:38
Speaker 1: seen a video that has hundreds of thousands of views
2:42
Speaker 1: where young women are talking about kind of almost being
2:46
Speaker 1: kidnapped or almost being trafficked. Usually it's like they were
2:49
Speaker 1: shopping at a big box retailer like Target or Walmart,
2:53
Speaker 1: and somebody got too close to them, or somebody did
2:55
Speaker 1: something weird to them, or they went out to their
2:56
Speaker 1: car and something weird was on their car, and they'll
2:59
Speaker 1: make these videos kind of claiming that this thing that
3:03
Speaker 1: happened meant that they were almost targets of kidnapping, like
3:07
Speaker 1: a forced kidnapping, and could have ended up being trafficked.
3:10
Speaker 1: And yeah, those videos, I can really understand why women
3:14
Speaker 1: make them, and I don't want to I want to
3:16
Speaker 1: be very clear, I'm not like blaming these women. I
3:18
Speaker 1: can really understand that they're responding to a genuine feeling
3:23
Speaker 1: of discomfort that I think many women feel when we're
3:25
Speaker 1: just going out about in our daily lives. But those
3:28
Speaker 1: videos are actually kind of dangerous because they actually can
3:32
Speaker 1: perpetuate misinformation about trafficking that actually silences and harms people
3:38
Speaker 1: who are actually being victims of trafficking. So it's something
3:41
Speaker 1: that I didn't really know a ton about either until
3:43
Speaker 1: downloading TikTok at the urging of my younger cousins. So
3:48
Speaker 1: I am a little bit older for the platform, but
3:50
Speaker 1: you know, and really sort of scrolling through and being like, wow,
3:54
Speaker 1: these videos make it seem as though, if you are
3:56
Speaker 1: a young woman, anytime you leave your house you should
4:00
Speaker 1: be afraid. Anytime you go shopping, you should be afraid
4:03
Speaker 1: that it is likely that you will be kidnapped by
4:05
Speaker 1: a stranger. And that's just something I think that we
4:07
Speaker 1: should be unpacking and and really asking a few questions about, right,
4:11
Speaker 1: And recently on your podcast, Bridget you dug into this correct,
4:18
Speaker 1: that's right. So I have to give major, major shout
4:20
Speaker 1: outs to one of my favorite podcasters, Michael Hobbs, the
4:23
Speaker 1: podcast You're Wrong About. If you're not listening to You're
4:26
Speaker 1: wrong about, what are you doing with your life? Because
4:27
Speaker 1: it's such a good podcast. Cannot recommend it enough. They
4:30
Speaker 1: actually have a recent episode about the Dixie or that
4:32
Speaker 1: they used to be the Dixie Chicks. Now that's the
4:34
Speaker 1: Chicks that is so phenomenal, please listen to it. But
4:36
Speaker 1: Michael Hobbs was a guest on my podcast to talk
4:39
Speaker 1: about trafficking and trafficking myths, and they have a great
4:42
Speaker 1: episode that breaks down where these trafficking myths come from.
4:46
Speaker 1: So major shout out to them and definitely check out
4:48
Speaker 1: their podcast and if you want to hear Michael in
4:51
Speaker 1: conversation with me, check out the episode that we did
4:54
Speaker 1: because I think it was great. But yeah, I think
4:56
Speaker 1: we are living through this really wild time where people
5:01
Speaker 1: are anxious. You know, there's the pandemic, there's you know,
5:05
Speaker 1: political and social unrest, and in times of that kind
5:08
Speaker 1: of unrest, I think it's not surprising that people look
5:12
Speaker 1: for an outside boogeyman who is often like the other
5:16
Speaker 1: and so you know, maybe it's a stand in for
5:19
Speaker 1: like immigrants or you know, people of color, like trans people,
5:23
Speaker 1: like some kind of boogeyman that you need to be
5:26
Speaker 1: afraid of. I think in times of anxiety, historically people
5:30
Speaker 1: turn to someone to kind of blame their anxieties on.
5:33
Speaker 1: So it's not surprising to me that we're kind of
5:35
Speaker 1: living through this this time where everybody is on edge
5:39
Speaker 1: and really warning about being kidnapped, being traffic, you know,
5:44
Speaker 1: and sort of creating this kind of like moral panic
5:47
Speaker 1: around it. Yeah, this episode he brought to this has
5:50
Speaker 1: given me a lot to mull over that I've kind
5:51
Speaker 1: of been thinking through my head anyway, and I just
5:55
Speaker 1: have a lot of complicated thoughts and what we're talking
5:57
Speaker 1: about is fairly complicated. And as we're like slowly entering
6:02
Speaker 1: back into the world, or at least in my case,
6:04
Speaker 1: for like went outside and went somewhere for the first
6:06
Speaker 1: time a long time, I've just forgotten that like performance
6:10
Speaker 1: and weight of just being someone and a woman walking
6:14
Speaker 1: around outside, and it felt so suffocating, like I know
6:17
Speaker 1: it was before that, but just that kind of sudden difference.
6:21
Speaker 1: But I've been thinking about, Yeah, that that blaming of
6:23
Speaker 1: the other, the boogeyman and how on in a kind
6:28
Speaker 1: of messed up way. That's simpler and easier than talking
6:32
Speaker 1: about these systemic issues of sexism and racism and homophobia,
6:37
Speaker 1: and how not dealing with those because they're difficult helps
6:43
Speaker 1: prop up those things like rape culture. Like it's like,
6:48
Speaker 1: keep your attention on this boogeyman that is pretty rare
6:53
Speaker 1: instead of dealing with why do we feel this way
6:56
Speaker 1: at all? Why is it easy for women to feel
7:01
Speaker 1: like they're going to be kidnapped or attacked? So, yeah,
7:05
Speaker 1: that's been something on my mind. And then just the
7:06
Speaker 1: whole thing with Q and On, which we've been talking
7:08
Speaker 1: about also, where that's a big part of their whole
7:11
Speaker 1: thing is really selling this idea of protecting children from
7:18
Speaker 1: these really unsavory fates and how successful they've been with
7:23
Speaker 1: that messaging. So yeah, there's just a lot going on
7:27
Speaker 1: to unpack and untangle and what we're talking about today. Yeah,
7:32
Speaker 1: I feel like I know that we were talking about
7:33
Speaker 1: it before we started recording. We're like, oh and uh,
7:37
Speaker 1: I began with don't get me started, which is hilarious
7:40
Speaker 1: because Bridget You've got me started. But yeah, one of
7:43
Speaker 1: the conversations that you when I are having was about
7:46
Speaker 1: the mere fact that they take sensationalized ideas, grow it bigger,
7:51
Speaker 1: essentially and make it impossible for regular cases. And I
7:54
Speaker 1: say regular in quotes in the aspect of what is
7:57
Speaker 1: more common to actually be able to do something or
8:00
Speaker 1: get any kind of justice, including things like in rape culture,
8:03
Speaker 1: when we see most of the times that victims know
8:06
Speaker 1: the air attackers or know the people who are coming
8:08
Speaker 1: after them. And it's the same way in trafficking, but instead,
8:12
Speaker 1: because we have to have this big boogeyman, it gets
8:14
Speaker 1: harder and harder to talk about the disinformation and getting
8:18
Speaker 1: actual justice. Have you been able to kind of decipher
8:22
Speaker 1: how that can be taken down? That's a great question.
8:25
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that you're exactly right. Both of
8:27
Speaker 1: you are exactly right. I think that it is so
8:31
Speaker 1: much harder and storn ear to say, you know, the
8:35
Speaker 1: issue is that quote unquote normal regular men can be
8:40
Speaker 1: creepers and can make women feel really uncomfortable just in
8:44
Speaker 1: they're just out in public. And that's a problem when
8:46
Speaker 1: we need to call that out, or that we live
8:49
Speaker 1: in a society where men who are in our own
8:52
Speaker 1: homes can sometimes be the ones who are perpetuating not
8:56
Speaker 1: great stuff. And I think it's so much easier to
8:59
Speaker 1: be like, oh, here's this boogeyman who's doing it. He's
9:01
Speaker 1: a stranger in a van with a hat and a mustache.
9:04
Speaker 1: Like that's you know, it's so much easier and clearer
9:07
Speaker 1: cut to point to that, even though the stranger in
9:11
Speaker 1: a van is so much less likely to be the
9:14
Speaker 1: person who is going to do you that kind of harm.
9:16
Speaker 1: And I also think you know, sam as as a
9:18
Speaker 1: juvenile justice advocate, you and I both know that some
9:22
Speaker 1: of the systems that can perpetuate harm against children are
9:27
Speaker 1: things like foster care systems, you know, like those systems
9:31
Speaker 1: that are there for you know, vulnerable youth. Those systems
9:35
Speaker 1: are the ones that can really be perpetuating this kind
9:37
Speaker 1: of thing. Yet it's so hard, Like I think a
9:41
Speaker 1: conversation about abuse in the foster care system is so
9:46
Speaker 1: much less exciting and sensational than a guy in a
9:49
Speaker 1: van taken style, you know, putting a pillow case over
9:52
Speaker 1: your head while you're shopping and putting you in a van.
9:54
Speaker 1: Like I can understand why that is what people gravitate
9:58
Speaker 1: towards when they talk about trapp I can completely understand it,
10:01
Speaker 1: but it doesn't do us anything good because when someone
10:04
Speaker 1: says to you, you know, oh, this person that I trusted,
10:08
Speaker 1: I had this weird experience with them, or you know,
10:11
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm being groomed. You're we're gonna all
10:14
Speaker 1: be primed to be like, well, no, trafficking is when
10:16
Speaker 1: someone snatches you from a target against your will. It's
10:19
Speaker 1: not something that you're coerced into or groomed into, or
10:22
Speaker 1: that someone that you knew could get you involved in,
10:24
Speaker 1: you know, over a course of time. And it makes
10:27
Speaker 1: us so much more primed to see something that is
10:30
Speaker 1: actually really rare and makes it more difficult for us
10:33
Speaker 1: to see the thing that is actually happening all around us.
10:36
Speaker 1: And I get it, I get why that happens, and
10:39
Speaker 1: I think it doesn't help that the way that social
10:41
Speaker 1: media algorithms work, they really prioritize big moment And so
10:46
Speaker 1: that's why if you ever are on like Facebook or
10:48
Speaker 1: Instagram and you announced a pregnancy or an engagement, your
10:53
Speaker 1: post will get lots and lots and lots of likes
10:55
Speaker 1: because the algorithm knows this is a big moment. The
10:58
Speaker 1: same is true for big moments of con it. So,
11:00
Speaker 1: somebody making a video about how they were, you know,
11:03
Speaker 1: almost kidnapped in a parking lot and you know, thank
11:05
Speaker 1: god they weren't, that's gonna get so much more engagement
11:08
Speaker 1: and so many more eyeballs than someone being like, hey,
11:11
Speaker 1: we need to unpack the gross things that happen in
11:14
Speaker 1: our foster care system that are really systemic and bad.
11:17
Speaker 1: That's not going to get the same out of eyeballs, right,
11:20
Speaker 1: And I mean, let's just get down to the breast
11:22
Speaker 1: text of it all. Especially when it comes to marginalized communities,
11:25
Speaker 1: which is who largely affects, they become no longer the
11:29
Speaker 1: victim but the perpetrators. And we've talked about this previously
11:34
Speaker 1: when we talked about when they use terms like child prostitute,
11:37
Speaker 1: which is a term like, let's just leave that out there.
11:41
Speaker 1: But because of that, they have this divide on who's
11:43
Speaker 1: a victim and who's not. And of course they want
11:46
Speaker 1: to and I say they as an overall conspiracy theorists
11:49
Speaker 1: want to highlight white women. Let's just go ahead and
11:53
Speaker 1: say that as the true victims and who need to
11:55
Speaker 1: be protected and white children. And we know, and we
11:59
Speaker 1: talked about this before the Q and on aspect that's
12:01
Speaker 1: kind of what was perpetuated in the media was how
12:04
Speaker 1: it differentiated this is a true victim and you see
12:07
Speaker 1: this angelic white child or angelic white woman. I say
12:10
Speaker 1: angelic because you know whatever, versus who truly are the
12:13
Speaker 1: victims and who they're willing to see as victims. And
12:16
Speaker 1: when we talk about the fosphter care systems, oftentimes they're
12:19
Speaker 1: dismissed in general. Do you want to talk about the
12:22
Speaker 1: sad orphans? But the orphans they want to talk about
12:25
Speaker 1: is again the Annie orphan who seems so cute and
12:28
Speaker 1: so sweet and so white. You know what I'm saying.
12:31
Speaker 1: That they don't get the attention and they don't get
12:33
Speaker 1: the respect and justice that this conspiracy ideas we must
12:38
Speaker 1: fight for these people that don't exist. Why is that?
12:42
Speaker 1: I kind of answer your question, but I think you, yeah,
12:44
Speaker 1: you kind of answered your own question. I think it
12:46
Speaker 1: is so much easier to believe in this bs bin
12:50
Speaker 1: area of sort of perfect victims and anything that does
12:54
Speaker 1: not promote the idea of like angelic white kids and
12:57
Speaker 1: angelic white women, those are the true victim and all
13:00
Speaker 1: that we know that's not true. But I think it's
13:03
Speaker 1: politically very convenient to have those folks be the face
13:08
Speaker 1: of trafficking because it allows, I mean, I hate to
13:12
Speaker 1: say this, it allows legislators to make legislation that cracks
13:15
Speaker 1: down on other marginalized communities that they already don't like.
13:18
Speaker 1: And so if you look at things like Sesta Fosta,
13:21
Speaker 1: that was legislation that was purported to sort of crack
13:24
Speaker 1: down on sex traffickers and made it so that social
13:27
Speaker 1: media platforms would be held liable if their platforms were
13:30
Speaker 1: used in support of sex trafficking. But what they actually
13:33
Speaker 1: did was they conflated consensual sex work and trafficking, and
13:37
Speaker 1: those are two different things, right, and so but this legislation,
13:40
Speaker 1: they were all just lumped together. And so this legislation
13:42
Speaker 1: that was actually you know that that was purported to
13:45
Speaker 1: be legislation to crack down on trafficking, actually one criminalized
13:49
Speaker 1: a group that's already marginalized, sex workers and to actually
13:54
Speaker 1: made trafficking potentially worse because sex workers are people who
14:00
Speaker 1: actually know the signs of when someone's being traffic they
14:02
Speaker 1: know what to look out for. And if you further
14:05
Speaker 1: criminalize this community that actually has the tools to speak
14:09
Speaker 1: up and say something when they see something that they
14:10
Speaker 1: know is not right, if you make it so that
14:12
Speaker 1: they can't speak up, you're actually harming people who are
14:16
Speaker 1: actually being trafficed. And so I think it's I think
14:19
Speaker 1: it is complicated, but I think that you're exactly right
14:23
Speaker 1: that there are so many forces, both like politically and
14:28
Speaker 1: also sort of just culturally and socially that are interested
14:32
Speaker 1: in having the victim quote unquote be angelic white children
14:37
Speaker 1: or angelic white women, and not the reality that it's
14:40
Speaker 1: you know, people who are marginalized, people who are struggling
14:44
Speaker 1: with homelessness, substance abuse issues, people in the foster care system,
14:48
Speaker 1: people who have just recently migrated to the country, you know,
14:51
Speaker 1: lgbt Q youth, trans youth, queer youth. Those are the
14:54
Speaker 1: people who are most likely at risk. And this idea
14:57
Speaker 1: that the way that we've allowed largely white, affluent people
15:02
Speaker 1: to take up so much space in the conversation around
15:04
Speaker 1: what trafficking looks like really does a disservice to the
15:07
Speaker 1: people who are actually impact as I it. I know
15:22
Speaker 1: bridget you and I have talked about before, would take
15:25
Speaker 1: it did come out and my dad like called me
15:29
Speaker 1: as though this was a documentary and I needed to
15:33
Speaker 1: be very concerned. And but that's what we see in
15:37
Speaker 1: our entertainment is kind of that idea of like, yes,
15:40
Speaker 1: the stranger danger usually white, young white woman. And then
15:44
Speaker 1: when you're talking about social media and these things getting
15:48
Speaker 1: more and more eyeballs, and if you're seeing that over
15:51
Speaker 1: and over, then in your mind you think, oh, this
15:53
Speaker 1: must be more common than I thought. And then on
15:56
Speaker 1: top of that. Not only is it often like not helpful,
16:02
Speaker 1: it's often completely wrong. Oh absolutely that I'm so glad
16:07
Speaker 1: that you brought that up. First, I want to say
16:09
Speaker 1: that my dad did the same thing. The first time
16:11
Speaker 1: I was going out of the country. He was like,
16:12
Speaker 1: I want to show you this. He called it a documentary.
16:15
Speaker 1: He was like, I want to tell you this documentary
16:17
Speaker 1: film about about staying safe abroad. And it was taken.
16:20
Speaker 1: I was like, this is not a documentary, but I
16:23
Speaker 1: do think that it is. This is just my anecdotal opinion.
16:27
Speaker 1: I think that we are really consumed by media right
16:33
Speaker 1: now that like is about crime, right, Like the popularity
16:37
Speaker 1: of things like true crime podcast. I think that women
16:39
Speaker 1: are being told do not leave your house. It is
16:42
Speaker 1: not safe. You could be outside getting your mail and
16:44
Speaker 1: someone can snatch you and that will be it, right,
16:46
Speaker 1: Like keep your guard up, keep your guard up, and listen.
16:49
Speaker 1: I love a good true crime documentary or true crime
16:52
Speaker 1: podcast as much as anybody. I am not I love them.
16:55
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not saying that that that they're bad,
16:58
Speaker 1: but I do think that when you're consumed by that
17:01
Speaker 1: as a as a as a culture, this it kind
17:04
Speaker 1: of can warp what you think of as reality. Right,
17:07
Speaker 1: So it's like if you are consuming that kind of content,
17:10
Speaker 1: that that tells you, you know, there's a danger out
17:13
Speaker 1: there all the time on the backdrop of living through
17:16
Speaker 1: a time that is really you know, anxiety provoking with
17:19
Speaker 1: the pandemic and all this unrest, Like, I can see
17:21
Speaker 1: how that could color how we're thinking about issues like trafficking,
17:24
Speaker 1: and yeah, it typically it's one of those things that
17:26
Speaker 1: typically when you do any digging or follow up, these
17:30
Speaker 1: stories that you see that go viral often are not
17:33
Speaker 1: what they seem like. The one that's that comes to
17:35
Speaker 1: mind right now as this woman Katie sorens In. She
17:38
Speaker 1: was a mom influencer who went by the handle Motherhood
17:41
Speaker 1: Essentials on Instagram, and she went viral. She made this
17:44
Speaker 1: video where she said that she had been shopping in
17:47
Speaker 1: a Michael's craft store and this couple tried to kidnap
17:50
Speaker 1: her kids and the video was terrifying. She says that
17:53
Speaker 1: she was shopping she overheard these this couple who she
17:56
Speaker 1: described as like looking quote not polished, So I don't know,
18:01
Speaker 1: I don't I was like unclear of what that what
18:03
Speaker 1: kind of coded phrase that was? But and she said
18:05
Speaker 1: that she overheard them talking about her kids appearance while
18:09
Speaker 1: she was shopping, and so, you know, if I was
18:11
Speaker 1: a mom and I heard that, I would be losing
18:13
Speaker 1: my mind, right, I would be really upset. She then
18:16
Speaker 1: said that the man tried to grab her stroller with
18:20
Speaker 1: her child in it, and that she screamed or something
18:23
Speaker 1: and somebody walked by, and that they got in their
18:25
Speaker 1: car and sped off, and so she made this video.
18:28
Speaker 1: She told the police that she did not want this
18:30
Speaker 1: couple arrested, that she just wanted to make a report
18:32
Speaker 1: so that she could spread awareness. She made this video.
18:35
Speaker 1: The video went viral and got over two million views.
18:38
Speaker 1: Only she had it completely wrong. After her video went viral,
18:43
Speaker 1: people were circulating the picture of this couple around and
18:46
Speaker 1: this couple didn't even know there was a problem until
18:49
Speaker 1: someone told them that their picture was being circulated on
18:51
Speaker 1: one of those Saved the Children Facebook groups, which is
18:54
Speaker 1: pretty scary to These people are kind of wild and
18:57
Speaker 1: if they if they think that that they're circulating your
18:59
Speaker 1: picture saying that you tried to kidnap a baby, that's
19:03
Speaker 1: pretty scary. And so this couple completely, you know, cooperated
19:07
Speaker 1: with the police. So the couple I feel so bad
19:10
Speaker 1: for them. They they were like an elderly Latino couple
19:13
Speaker 1: and they were grandparents themselves, and they said, oh, well,
19:16
Speaker 1: this woman she thought that she heard us talking about
19:19
Speaker 1: her kids. We were talking about our own grandkids. We
19:21
Speaker 1: were shopping for our grandkids. And so they were completely
19:25
Speaker 1: cleared of any wrongdoing. And this woman is actually now
19:28
Speaker 1: being charged with giving false information to the police. And
19:31
Speaker 1: I don't know what was in her mind when she
19:33
Speaker 1: did this. It's it's possible that she was actually genuinely
19:38
Speaker 1: afraid or feeling some kind of fear. But I do
19:42
Speaker 1: think that when you get social media involved, because we
19:46
Speaker 1: know algorithms are poised to make this specific kind of
19:50
Speaker 1: content get lots and lots of views, you really got
19:52
Speaker 1: to be careful. So I'm not I'm not saying that
19:54
Speaker 1: if anybody has an experience like this that they should
19:56
Speaker 1: not broadcasted to the world via social media, but just
19:59
Speaker 1: really think it through, because you could be really endangering
20:03
Speaker 1: somebody else. Like this couple having their their picture and
20:06
Speaker 1: I saved the children Facebook group. That is not a
20:08
Speaker 1: safe situation for them, right, And so I think that
20:11
Speaker 1: people should really be thoughtful about how they talk about trafficking,
20:16
Speaker 1: because so often the kinds of viral videos and viral
20:19
Speaker 1: claims that you see about trafficking just aren't true. They
20:22
Speaker 1: fall apart under scrutiny, right, And that's the other part
20:25
Speaker 1: of this. Let's say it was true, she could have
20:27
Speaker 1: messed up her case in general and trying to go
20:30
Speaker 1: after this because she's already prepped these people into saying
20:33
Speaker 1: what they needed to say, so none of this it
20:35
Speaker 1: was wrong. I remember to this video because they actually
20:37
Speaker 1: went all the way through releasing security video showing that
20:40
Speaker 1: they had actually stayed in the store when she said
20:43
Speaker 1: they ran to buy something. They were at the checkout
20:45
Speaker 1: counter talking to the checkout lady, not knowing what's going on,
20:48
Speaker 1: had no interactions, there was no screaming, Like I remember going,
20:52
Speaker 1: why like that wasn't Did she not realize stores have
20:55
Speaker 1: security cameras. I'm very confused and what she was thinking
20:58
Speaker 1: as well. But in a matter of fact, as many
21:01
Speaker 1: cases that I've been on when I worked with the
21:03
Speaker 1: Department Disambling Children's Services, any case of molestation and such
21:07
Speaker 1: that would have ruined it right there, because it's already
21:10
Speaker 1: difficult to prove a case. It is almost impossible to
21:13
Speaker 1: get any kind of justice in general when it comes
21:17
Speaker 1: to things like that, and has she had done that video,
21:20
Speaker 1: had this actually had happened and they had gotten the
21:22
Speaker 1: heads up, they could have easily just thrown out this
21:25
Speaker 1: case because she screwed it up. Let's just be very
21:28
Speaker 1: honest about that. This is what I think. It's part
21:31
Speaker 1: of the problem. And I know you you now know
21:34
Speaker 1: as you're talking of it is people sensationalized and see
21:38
Speaker 1: movies and think this is how it goes. When it
21:40
Speaker 1: comes to the reality is no, if you do half
21:42
Speaker 1: the things that you do in movies, you've already up
21:45
Speaker 1: the entire case and there's no justice to be had.
21:49
Speaker 1: I'm so glad to hear you say this. Michael Hobbs
21:52
Speaker 1: and I talked about this. I do think that there's
21:54
Speaker 1: something about movies and true crime content that is making
21:57
Speaker 1: us think that, you know, vigilante justice. I need to
22:00
Speaker 1: hunt down these bad guys, and like I have the
22:03
Speaker 1: idea of hunting down bad guys sounds cool. I don't
22:06
Speaker 1: understand why people like why that is something that seems compelling,
22:10
Speaker 1: But it's not like the movies. Right. In reality, the
22:14
Speaker 1: road to justice, unfortunately, can be very tenuous and so
22:18
Speaker 1: it is not like the movies. I think that this
22:20
Speaker 1: kind of content really gives a false impression of what
22:24
Speaker 1: the process of seeking justice for this kind of crime
22:26
Speaker 1: actually looks like. And if people did half the things
22:29
Speaker 1: that you hear about on movies or that get turned
22:32
Speaker 1: into life, I mean, I love a Lifetime movie. If
22:34
Speaker 1: people have half of that stuff, they would actually be
22:37
Speaker 1: jeopardizing their own case. So not a good strategy to
22:40
Speaker 1: get your advice from Lifetime movies, as entertaining as they
22:43
Speaker 1: may be. Those But you know, speaking of not realistic,
22:51
Speaker 1: I think a lot of these things are also perpetuated
22:53
Speaker 1: by urban myth type of posts that we see not
22:56
Speaker 1: only on techtok, because I'm not on tektok I'm not
22:58
Speaker 1: cool enough for that yet, but like on Facebook, I've
23:01
Speaker 1: seen so many posts where it says if the cheese
23:05
Speaker 1: Have you heard of this one? Y'all? Oh? Yes? So
23:11
Speaker 1: apparently there was a woman who stated that she found
23:14
Speaker 1: a slice of cheese on her car and because it
23:16
Speaker 1: can ruin the paint and you can't just pill it off,
23:18
Speaker 1: she had to sit there and scrape it off. But
23:20
Speaker 1: she had quote unquote the good sense of calling someone
23:23
Speaker 1: to help her, and it turned out supposedly there it
23:26
Speaker 1: was a another car watching her so that when she
23:30
Speaker 1: got out to get the cheese off, they could kidnap her.
23:33
Speaker 1: Was and it went violent. I don't know if you're viold,
23:36
Speaker 1: but it went big enough that would be repost this,
23:38
Speaker 1: repost this, let everyone know, And I'm just like, what
23:42
Speaker 1: have I missed something? Maybe I haven't been out enough.
23:44
Speaker 1: But post like that also perpetuate these types of stereotypes
23:49
Speaker 1: or kind of fearmongering. I would guess, oh absolutely. And
23:53
Speaker 1: to be clear, this is not new. When I was
23:55
Speaker 1: in high school, before social media was ever even really
23:57
Speaker 1: a thing, I used to hear all kind ends of stories.
24:00
Speaker 1: You know, somebody is gonna be waiting under your car
24:03
Speaker 1: with a razor blade to slice your ankles, you know,
24:05
Speaker 1: the the old story of I mean, I might be
24:08
Speaker 1: dating myself. I don't know if if people even know
24:10
Speaker 1: the story, but the the urban legend of a woman
24:13
Speaker 1: driving at night and a guy is driving behind her
24:16
Speaker 1: and he keeps flashing his high beams and really, and
24:19
Speaker 1: so she thinks this guy's this guy is trying to
24:21
Speaker 1: murder me, And in reality, he's flashing his high beams
24:24
Speaker 1: to warn her that there's a bad guy in her
24:26
Speaker 1: back seat. So this is not new, but with social media,
24:29
Speaker 1: these things can really go viral. And so it's one
24:31
Speaker 1: thing if this is an urban legend being passed around
24:34
Speaker 1: you know, your home room or whatever in high school.
24:37
Speaker 1: It's another thing when it can get when it is
24:38
Speaker 1: optimized by platforms to get thousands and thousands and thousands
24:42
Speaker 1: of views and to spread really quickly. And so a
24:44
Speaker 1: couple of things to point out about that. Pretty much,
24:46
Speaker 1: if you ever hear someone say, oh, this is a
24:50
Speaker 1: new tactic that traffickers are using, that should perk your
24:54
Speaker 1: ears right up, because it is likely that you're about
24:56
Speaker 1: to hear something that is total b s because just
24:59
Speaker 1: use common sense. Doesn't make sense that that traffickers would
25:04
Speaker 1: have some kind of a you know, code that they
25:07
Speaker 1: write on your car to signal to another trafficker something
25:10
Speaker 1: about you. Doesn't make sense that all of this stuff
25:12
Speaker 1: will be happening in the parking lot of a major retailer,
25:16
Speaker 1: most of which in this day and age, are being recorded.
25:18
Speaker 1: I just you just really, when you think about these claims,
25:22
Speaker 1: even though they sound very compelling, if you if you
25:25
Speaker 1: really give them some thought, it's like, oh, that doesn't
25:27
Speaker 1: actually make a lot of sense. So if it doesn't
25:28
Speaker 1: make sense, it's probably not happening. Another thing to say
25:31
Speaker 1: is that what we know about how untrue information spreads
25:36
Speaker 1: on the internet, disinformation is when someone is making up
25:39
Speaker 1: a story purposely to fool you or to trick you,
25:42
Speaker 1: ort to call some kind of harm. They're doing it
25:44
Speaker 1: on purpose. Misinformation is different because people are spreading information
25:48
Speaker 1: that they don't know, you know, is whether or not
25:51
Speaker 1: it's true or not. They're not necessarily trying to cause harm.
25:54
Speaker 1: They're probably just trying to warn their community, and they're
25:56
Speaker 1: sort of thinking, you know, better safe than sorry. If
25:59
Speaker 1: this helps somebody gray, If not, who cares? And I
26:01
Speaker 1: can understand why people are sharing information just to sort
26:04
Speaker 1: of generally warn people about things they hear. But again,
26:08
Speaker 1: it really does add to this this unshrewd idea of
26:12
Speaker 1: what trafficking really looks like. So, no, putting somebody putting
26:15
Speaker 1: cheese on your car is not a way to mark
26:18
Speaker 1: you as a trafficking victim. Somebody putting a zip tie
26:21
Speaker 1: or or a something on your car handle pretty much
26:23
Speaker 1: anything that says that where someone is doing something to
26:26
Speaker 1: your car as a way to mark you for trafficking
26:28
Speaker 1: is not happening. And I see so many stories on
26:33
Speaker 1: local news sites, you know, where people are like, oh,
26:35
Speaker 1: well this my hometown local news website said that the
26:40
Speaker 1: police said that they were investigating. And honestly, this is
26:43
Speaker 1: a such a situation where I think people that have
26:46
Speaker 1: institutional power, like the police, like journalists, need to take
26:50
Speaker 1: a little bit more responsibility and don't just write up
26:53
Speaker 1: a story and you know, quick publish without really doing
26:57
Speaker 1: your due diligence, because the police saying they're in estigating
27:00
Speaker 1: is different than them saying, yes, this is a confirmed
27:02
Speaker 1: trafficking attempt. They are correct, right, And so I see
27:05
Speaker 1: a lot of hometown local journalistic outlets that you know,
27:10
Speaker 1: essentially will write an entire article about the fact that
27:13
Speaker 1: somebody found a you know, bag on their car, or
27:16
Speaker 1: or that somebody found a string on their car. And
27:19
Speaker 1: I think that we should be asking people that have
27:21
Speaker 1: that kind of institutional power whether or not they are
27:23
Speaker 1: contributing to this this these misunderstandings about trafficking. Right. Like,
27:27
Speaker 1: one of the stories that I that I saw that
27:28
Speaker 1: when viral was this parking lot where someone found a
27:32
Speaker 1: flower on their car and they were like, oh my god,
27:35
Speaker 1: I'm about to be traffic. And it turned out that
27:37
Speaker 1: these people have had a wedding or something and they
27:39
Speaker 1: had all these extra flowers and so they were like, oh,
27:41
Speaker 1: it'll be nice, and we put them on people's cars,
27:43
Speaker 1: and so that that wasn't worth it to write a
27:46
Speaker 1: whole article about this misunderstanding when you know, the correction
27:52
Speaker 1: will never get as much attention as the false claim.
27:55
Speaker 1: The false claim will go viral, the correction will will
27:59
Speaker 1: barely be seen by anybody, right, And that's the whole
28:02
Speaker 1: like clickbait, you know what? What sells um conversation and yeah, yeah,
28:08
Speaker 1: I I remember when I was in high school, there
28:11
Speaker 1: was a rule you weren't allowed to wear shirts with
28:14
Speaker 1: your name on them because the idea was someone could
28:19
Speaker 1: pretend they knew your parents or they knew your guardians,
28:21
Speaker 1: and they'd be like, oh, hey Annie, they told me
28:24
Speaker 1: I can pick you up. But then that's the end.
28:26
Speaker 1: No one sees you again. And just the idea that
28:29
Speaker 1: they're like telling this the tons. Okay, I don't know
28:35
Speaker 1: that I get it. I totally get it, but a
28:37
Speaker 1: part of it does feel very like this is the
28:38
Speaker 1: society we're in. You have to deal with it. It's
28:40
Speaker 1: on you to protect yourself. But Okay, we've talked a
28:44
Speaker 1: lot about what trafficking isn't. Can we talk about some
28:50
Speaker 1: more about what it is? Oh? Absolutely, I'm so glad
28:53
Speaker 1: that you asked. So this is from a great resource
28:55
Speaker 1: called the Polaris Project. They have so much good information
28:58
Speaker 1: about trafficking out there, so definitely check them out if
29:01
Speaker 1: you're interested. This is from their site. They say it
29:03
Speaker 1: can happen to anyone, or is happening in your backyard
29:05
Speaker 1: are common in the anti human trafficking field. Technically they're true.
29:09
Speaker 1: Anyone could be trafficked in any community, just as anybody
29:12
Speaker 1: can be the victim of any kind of crime. But
29:13
Speaker 1: the real story is why it can happen to anyone.
29:15
Speaker 1: Available evidence suggests that people of color and l g
29:18
Speaker 1: B t Q plus people are more likely to be
29:20
Speaker 1: traffic than any other demographic of group. That is not
29:22
Speaker 1: a coincidence. Generational trauma, historic oppression, discrimination, and other societal factors,
29:27
Speaker 1: and any qualities can create community wide vulnerabilities. Traffickers recognize
29:32
Speaker 1: and take advantage of people who are vulnerable in certain ways,
29:34
Speaker 1: and so trafficking can look like a lot of things.
29:37
Speaker 1: Most of the time, it looks like somebody who is
29:39
Speaker 1: vulnerable because of some issue being taken advantage of, coerced
29:43
Speaker 1: or groomed. It oft sometimes it can be people that
29:46
Speaker 1: you know, people that you trust, people in your community,
29:48
Speaker 1: people in your own house. It is really unlikely that
29:51
Speaker 1: anyone would be trafficked by a stranger kidnapping them from
29:54
Speaker 1: a public place. I want to be clear that I'm
29:56
Speaker 1: not saying that never happens, but it is very very
29:59
Speaker 1: rare instances where that has happened, is you can count
30:02
Speaker 1: them on one hand. It is. It is very rare.
30:04
Speaker 1: So again, anything could happen to anyone. We live in
30:07
Speaker 1: a chaotic world where things can happen, but we need
30:11
Speaker 1: to be clear about what is more likely and what
30:13
Speaker 1: is not very likely. And as Sam said, you know,
30:16
Speaker 1: the foster care system is like rife with trafficking, and
30:20
Speaker 1: really it's it's situations where someone is vulnerable and there's
30:25
Speaker 1: a power imbalance. The Polaryer's Project that's a really good
30:27
Speaker 1: job of laying this out. So if you are a
30:30
Speaker 1: person dealing with homelessness, somebody offering you, you know, a
30:34
Speaker 1: place to stay, a place to sleep, that kind of thing, right,
30:36
Speaker 1: Like we have really really misunderstood the way that trafficking
30:42
Speaker 1: actually looks in favor of this highly sensationalized view of
30:46
Speaker 1: people being kidnapped. So, you know, we really need to
30:49
Speaker 1: be having the conversation of what it actually looks like.
30:52
Speaker 1: And oftentimes it's runaways, it's people with substance abuse issues,
30:55
Speaker 1: it's lgbt Q youth, people dealing with homelessness. You know,
30:59
Speaker 1: folks who are are already marginalized and already dealing with
31:02
Speaker 1: some of this, some of this kind of tough stuff,
31:04
Speaker 1: people in tough situations. I mean, there's a reason why
31:07
Speaker 1: a majority of the group of individuals are called at
31:10
Speaker 1: risk because it's not just necessarily that they're at risk
31:14
Speaker 1: of being homeless, it's all of these things that lay
31:16
Speaker 1: on top of them. And then, just like you said,
31:18
Speaker 1: they're either coerce or groomed, and more oftentimes groomed by
31:21
Speaker 1: someone they trust and they've built a bond with and
31:24
Speaker 1: not realizing that this is something that happens. It flips
31:28
Speaker 1: so quick, especially in justice system, especially in politics, where
31:32
Speaker 1: it goes from victim once again to the perpetrator. When
31:35
Speaker 1: we call these victims no longer victims because they refused
31:38
Speaker 1: to admit there groomed. That happens way more often than not.
31:42
Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how many cases that I had
31:44
Speaker 1: to go through to try to get children out of
31:47
Speaker 1: bad situations that unfortunately happened to them, because yes, they
31:50
Speaker 1: got lost in the system, or they got caught up
31:52
Speaker 1: in one bad thing, and that caused them to think, oh,
31:56
Speaker 1: no one cares, like there's this whole level of systemic negligence. Um,
32:00
Speaker 1: that's the best way I can put it. That happens
32:02
Speaker 1: that causes us to happen. In their defensiveness, they don't
32:05
Speaker 1: want to be seen as a victim, so therefore they
32:08
Speaker 1: don't want to be seen as a victims, so they're
32:09
Speaker 1: they're not and I get lost in the system. And
32:12
Speaker 1: there's this again, that bigger conversation of what does trafficking
32:15
Speaker 1: look like? Which harms any possible ability to rehabilitate or
32:19
Speaker 1: health these youths. So I'm not gonna say bad things
32:22
Speaker 1: don't happen to women. We know that, but trafficking typically
32:25
Speaker 1: art is not number one for women. Let's just go
32:28
Speaker 1: ahead and put that out there unless there's a whole
32:31
Speaker 1: different level situation. Not that it can't happen, it can happen,
32:34
Speaker 1: but when it comes down to who was really victimized
32:36
Speaker 1: and groomed, they are going to be younger. So I
32:41
Speaker 1: do find it interesting too though, that even though we've
32:44
Speaker 1: talked about it throughout history, we've always talked about there's
32:47
Speaker 1: always been a fear. Honestly, I guess since the eighties
32:50
Speaker 1: when we thought all the children were gonna be picked
32:52
Speaker 1: up and and kidnapped, that this whole level of trafficking
32:56
Speaker 1: really didn't. It felt like it's became more p plitical
33:01
Speaker 1: in the last five years because of some of these
33:04
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories and how it is perpetuated online. Has that
33:09
Speaker 1: had more effect or Am I just paying attention more? No,
33:11
Speaker 1: it absolutely has. I think that as our political climate
33:16
Speaker 1: has gotten more polarized, gotten more heated, conversations have been
33:20
Speaker 1: politicized in ways that we have not released, at least
33:23
Speaker 1: in my opinion, that we have not really seen a
33:25
Speaker 1: lot of before, and so particularly with conversations around like
33:28
Speaker 1: things like you know, sex trafficking and anything involving like sex,
33:33
Speaker 1: I think that we have really politicized those conversations to
33:36
Speaker 1: a point where it's difficult to really have them in
33:39
Speaker 1: any kind of, you know, meaningful or effective way. And
33:44
Speaker 1: it's not great. You know, it's not it's not great
33:46
Speaker 1: for people who are actually victimized. Like what, like, why
33:49
Speaker 1: is it that we have this massive politicized conspiracy theory
33:54
Speaker 1: Q and on that you know, it's all about you know,
33:56
Speaker 1: women and girls being sex traffics and all of that.
33:59
Speaker 1: Yet Matt Gates is currently is currently being incredibly accused
34:04
Speaker 1: of sex trafficking. And it's like, so I think that,
34:07
Speaker 1: like it goes to show that we have a very
34:11
Speaker 1: skewed kind of cultural understanding of how we deal and
34:16
Speaker 1: grapple with these issues. Absolutely, I completely agree. Can we
34:20
Speaker 1: talk about the fact that Matt Gates people are excusing
34:23
Speaker 1: him in so many manners because he first of all,
34:29
Speaker 1: his interview on Fox is probably one of my favorites. However,
34:34
Speaker 1: literally people are dismissing it, saying that he like kind
34:37
Speaker 1: of that whole level of oh, whish's mature for her age,
34:42
Speaker 1: she's underage. Yeah, I think that was honestly, if I'm
34:44
Speaker 1: being honest, I think with his situation again, I think
34:49
Speaker 1: because people are like, oh, trafficking is when you kidnap
34:52
Speaker 1: a woman or a girl against her will and and
34:55
Speaker 1: like confine her in some way. What he's doing is
34:59
Speaker 1: not traffic because X y Z. I think that genuinely,
35:04
Speaker 1: people have a hard time seeing what he has been
35:08
Speaker 1: accused of as anything other than like, oh, well, he's
35:12
Speaker 1: a man, he likes younger women. You know, boys will
35:16
Speaker 1: be boys. And I think that that really does demonstrate
35:19
Speaker 1: that we really have a long way to go in
35:20
Speaker 1: terms of talking about what sexual violence actually looks like
35:24
Speaker 1: and how and where it shows up. Because I think,
35:26
Speaker 1: I hate to say this, I think a lot of
35:28
Speaker 1: men that might think of themselves as like progressive good
35:31
Speaker 1: guys might agree with that if you really got down
35:34
Speaker 1: to it, that like paying a woman for sex and
35:38
Speaker 1: maybe she's underaged, maybe she is being coerced into it,
35:43
Speaker 1: maybe she is has been groomed into it. I think
35:46
Speaker 1: that a lot of people might not see that that
35:49
Speaker 1: part of like, well, how did they get into the
35:51
Speaker 1: circumstances as their problem? Right? I think that, like the
35:54
Speaker 1: way that we talk about those issues, I think we
35:58
Speaker 1: have a long way to go, and a lot of
36:00
Speaker 1: people might have more sinister understandings of it than they
36:06
Speaker 1: realize because I think, again, it seems like if you're
36:08
Speaker 1: not kidnapping somebody, and you can't be doing anything wrong, right.
36:24
Speaker 1: You know. A part of this too is and I'm
36:27
Speaker 1: going to go out I can say, and I've said
36:28
Speaker 1: it before, is this white savior idea that if you're
36:31
Speaker 1: not rescuing somebody, and when they say rescuing going undercover
36:35
Speaker 1: vigilanty style and you know, killing all the people's and
36:38
Speaker 1: rescuing the child, then they're not truly in danger, right,
36:42
Speaker 1: They're not truly being trafficked, which is kind of that again,
36:45
Speaker 1: big conversation. One of the hardest populations to work with
36:48
Speaker 1: our young people who have been in this situation, not
36:52
Speaker 1: realizing they've been in the situation, thinking this is their
36:54
Speaker 1: choice because they love someone, or they wanted to help someone,
36:57
Speaker 1: or because this is better than being an assist them
37:00
Speaker 1: that neglects them anyway, that oftentimes people won't recognize that.
37:04
Speaker 1: And even still with what's happening, and it can be
37:07
Speaker 1: trafficking with a specific foster care system in the US
37:11
Speaker 1: that is taking immigrant children against through misunderstanding or through
37:16
Speaker 1: the immigration centers and actually adopting them out against parents
37:21
Speaker 1: wishes and not even understand that they've been accused of
37:24
Speaker 1: this from all over the country, to the point that
37:27
Speaker 1: children are coming around and found out that the parents
37:29
Speaker 1: had no idea, they had signed off are relinquishing their
37:33
Speaker 1: guardianship and pronification rights, and therefore that's a type of
37:37
Speaker 1: trafficking that people don't want to talk about because once
37:39
Speaker 1: again it's just I'm saving them attitude, and it has
37:43
Speaker 1: to be this bigger picture of what am I saving
37:45
Speaker 1: them from? And if you're not grateful for it, then
37:48
Speaker 1: are you really in trouble? Like there's just this whole
37:51
Speaker 1: level of layered conversation within this system that shows once
37:56
Speaker 1: again a this perpetuated idea has to be hero and
38:00
Speaker 1: big and the and the victims have to be on
38:02
Speaker 1: their nees thanking me type of idea. And or that
38:06
Speaker 1: I've made a big splash and rescuing you, which is
38:09
Speaker 1: that whole issue of like Q and On, we're rescuing
38:11
Speaker 1: the children, were saving the children, which has broken down
38:15
Speaker 1: this whole conversation. No, you're actually hurting the movement, You're
38:19
Speaker 1: really killing the movement and in us trying to save
38:22
Speaker 1: truly save because who are not being saved? Oh? Absolutely,
38:26
Speaker 1: And it's time and time again people who do anti
38:30
Speaker 1: trafficking work, they say Q and On, all of this
38:32
Speaker 1: stuff is making their jobs so much harder, And if
38:35
Speaker 1: you truly cared about trafficking, you would not be doing
38:39
Speaker 1: something that the people who have been dedicated their lives
38:43
Speaker 1: to stopping it has said, no, you're making our jobs
38:45
Speaker 1: so much harder, please stop. And so I think it really,
38:48
Speaker 1: if it's not about stopping trafficking, what is it about?
38:51
Speaker 1: If people are continuing this crusade that the people who
38:54
Speaker 1: work in anti trafficking work say is making their jobs
38:57
Speaker 1: so much harder, what is it about? You know, I
39:00
Speaker 1: have a lot of questions about that. I don't know.
39:01
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer, but it is it really?
39:05
Speaker 1: You have to you have to wonder. I mean, I
39:08
Speaker 1: guess that's kind of what we talked about with the
39:10
Speaker 1: Q and on women, and we've talked about misinformation and disinformation.
39:14
Speaker 1: A lot of the times when people feel helpless, they
39:16
Speaker 1: feel like they have to do something, and unfortunately, if
39:19
Speaker 1: they truly believe this as a situation, they're going to
39:22
Speaker 1: take up arms in this fight. And I say that
39:25
Speaker 1: metaphorically obviously maybe not, I don't know, but that this
39:29
Speaker 1: is a cause that they decided it's their cause and
39:32
Speaker 1: they're truly willing to fight because you know, we have
39:35
Speaker 1: to say keep saying that what they're saying save the children,
39:39
Speaker 1: and that's the only thing that they cannot get past. Yeah,
39:42
Speaker 1: if we wanted to save the children, we would be
39:44
Speaker 1: advocating for things like paid family leave. We would be
39:48
Speaker 1: advocating for, you know, increasing educational access, would be advocating
39:53
Speaker 1: for raising wages for parents and caregivers. We will be
39:56
Speaker 1: advocating for There will there will be comments sense things
39:58
Speaker 1: that we will be advocating for that actually would improve
40:02
Speaker 1: the lives of children, right like across the board. Yet
40:06
Speaker 1: we're you know, talking about you know, Q and On.
40:09
Speaker 1: It's like it's like, if we wanted to say the children,
40:11
Speaker 1: we could talk about fixing our completely messed up immigration
40:15
Speaker 1: system where children are taken from their parents. There are
40:17
Speaker 1: so many different ways that we could actually meaningfully improve
40:20
Speaker 1: the lives of children, and I don't think um On
40:23
Speaker 1: is one of them. I mean, when we come down
40:25
Speaker 1: to it, in Georgia alone and knows all over the country,
40:28
Speaker 1: they lost millions to billions of dollars in the system,
40:31
Speaker 1: in the children's system. So whether it's de facts or
40:33
Speaker 1: whether it's d JJ, And don't get me wrong, I
40:35
Speaker 1: have a lot of problems with the foster care system
40:38
Speaker 1: a lot. But what we're also talking about is taking
40:41
Speaker 1: the money away from the things that that were good
40:43
Speaker 1: that try to help the families within their homes instead
40:46
Speaker 1: of just removing kids left and right, or when we
40:48
Speaker 1: have talked about hey, oh Medicare for all, it's actually
40:51
Speaker 1: really helpful and would help these kids get their counseling
40:54
Speaker 1: that they need. Instead it gets cut and slashed the
40:56
Speaker 1: pieces where they can only get it once a week.
40:59
Speaker 1: And for the level of what's happening, we're not saving anything,
41:02
Speaker 1: and we're perpetuating, once again, putting them out into the
41:05
Speaker 1: system that does take advantage of them to be trafficked.
41:08
Speaker 1: So sad, I hate it. Okay, you got or started.
41:13
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, but uh, with all of this that
41:19
Speaker 1: you see, with all the constant do you see anything
41:22
Speaker 1: that is helping to prevent any of this misinformation being
41:28
Speaker 1: sent out? Yeah, that's a great question. Honestly, I it
41:32
Speaker 1: kind of pains me to say this. I think that
41:34
Speaker 1: platforms also, just speaking of the platform TikTok because that's
41:37
Speaker 1: the one I'm most familiar with at this point, I
41:40
Speaker 1: think that platforms need to do more across the board
41:43
Speaker 1: to keep viral inaccurate information from getting shared on their platforms.
41:49
Speaker 1: But in the absence of that kind of like very
41:52
Speaker 1: meaningful intervention, I have been really hardened to see women,
41:55
Speaker 1: just regular women content creators on the platform address in
42:00
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. Um I interviewed this content creator
42:02
Speaker 1: on TikTok. Her TikTok name is blood Bath and Beyond,
42:05
Speaker 1: and she started on the platform making dungeons and Dragons content.
42:09
Speaker 1: But now her whole thing is sort of using the
42:13
Speaker 1: platform TikTok to spread accurate information about trafficking and accurate
42:17
Speaker 1: trafficking resources. And so when someone makes a viral video
42:21
Speaker 1: about how they found something on their car, she wants
42:25
Speaker 1: to on the platform where those videos are going viral,
42:28
Speaker 1: combat that kind of viral misinformation by giving good resources.
42:32
Speaker 1: And I am so happy to see women taking on
42:36
Speaker 1: this fight to make sure that accurate information that is
42:39
Speaker 1: not harming people gets out there and like trying to
42:42
Speaker 1: make it go as a viral asth misinformation. But you know,
42:45
Speaker 1: in talking to her this kind of came up in
42:46
Speaker 1: the interview. It is complicated work because people often will
42:51
Speaker 1: find these viral videos of women talking about finding a
42:54
Speaker 1: zip tie on their car and tag her in them,
42:57
Speaker 1: and the way that she feels sometimes is that like, oh,
42:59
Speaker 1: people are hagging me because they want me to go
43:01
Speaker 1: in and be like you're lying, And that's not how
43:04
Speaker 1: she feels. She's not interested in invalidating anybody who is
43:08
Speaker 1: sharing their experience, right, and so, but too often that's
43:12
Speaker 1: kind of how we think of these things. We think
43:13
Speaker 1: of these things as like you know, she said, she said,
43:16
Speaker 1: or like go in there and and call her out,
43:18
Speaker 1: instead of like, no, let me provide some resources and
43:20
Speaker 1: let me like provide a little bit of perspective. And
43:22
Speaker 1: so I completely identify with that, because again, I think
43:26
Speaker 1: there is a temptation to say that women that make
43:30
Speaker 1: these videos are looking for attention or they're making it
43:32
Speaker 1: up or whatever. I don't actually believe that's going on.
43:35
Speaker 1: Just the experience of being a woman out in public,
43:38
Speaker 1: you know, as Annie was speaking about at the beginning
43:40
Speaker 1: of the episode, can be scary. Men can be creeps.
43:43
Speaker 1: Men can get too close to you when you're at
43:45
Speaker 1: the store. Men can be real creepers. Like we all
43:48
Speaker 1: know this, And so I do think that these women
43:51
Speaker 1: are responding to a genuine discomfort. But because we don't
43:55
Speaker 1: have a society where if we talked about the discomfort
43:59
Speaker 1: that quote unquote regular men spark in women. We don't
44:03
Speaker 1: have a society that rewards women when we talk about that.
44:06
Speaker 1: We don't have a society that rewards women when we
44:08
Speaker 1: talk about the threat posed by men in our communities,
44:12
Speaker 1: in our own household. We do not have a society
44:14
Speaker 1: that rewards that. We do have a society, however, that
44:17
Speaker 1: rewards it when women speak up about a boogeyman or
44:20
Speaker 1: a stranger or a guy in a van with a
44:22
Speaker 1: mustache or whatever. That seems to be the thing that
44:26
Speaker 1: is rewarded and supported when women speak of And so honestly,
44:30
Speaker 1: I feel for these women who make these videos. I
44:33
Speaker 1: do not believe that they're you know, making them for
44:35
Speaker 1: attention or making it up. I believe that we have
44:38
Speaker 1: a society that is only able to listen when women
44:41
Speaker 1: scream at the top of their lungs. And so if
44:43
Speaker 1: you just said, hey, men, stop being generally creepy and
44:47
Speaker 1: leering at me when I'm at the gym and being
44:49
Speaker 1: generally kind of terrible because women don't like it, no
44:53
Speaker 1: one's gonna listen. But if you say, hey, I'm being trapped,
44:55
Speaker 1: I think I'm being trafficked by this guy. I think
44:58
Speaker 1: it's a totally different story, right, and so it's a
45:00
Speaker 1: complicated issue, and I really I I think the issue
45:04
Speaker 1: is made so much worse by what we take seriously
45:08
Speaker 1: in our society and what we don't and what we
45:10
Speaker 1: choose to listen to and what we choose to amplify. Yeah, yeah,
45:13
Speaker 1: this is UM again. I'm really glad you bought this
45:17
Speaker 1: to us this for an episode, because it's given me
45:19
Speaker 1: a lot to think over because there is also that
45:24
Speaker 1: whole other layer of especially when I was thinking about
45:27
Speaker 1: Q and on and UM, some conservative politicians who would
45:32
Speaker 1: by the way they're speaking about some of these issues,
45:34
Speaker 1: they are sexualizing young girls and women, and it's like,
45:40
Speaker 1: I don't know if you realize you're doing that, but
45:42
Speaker 1: you sort of part of the issue that is that
45:47
Speaker 1: fear that women are feeling every day and maybe they
45:50
Speaker 1: don't realize it or know how to talk about it,
45:53
Speaker 1: because for a long time I didn't even know. I
45:55
Speaker 1: couldn't have named it. But just seeing that layer of
45:59
Speaker 1: it where it's just this like constant sexualization and not
46:05
Speaker 1: that just seems to be the status quo and we're
46:08
Speaker 1: cool with it, even in these conversations that politicians are
46:11
Speaker 1: having about trafficking. Yeah, I saw this viral TikTok where
46:16
Speaker 1: it was a young girl who had set up her
46:17
Speaker 1: phone to make a little video in public. It was
46:20
Speaker 1: it was almost triggering. Have you guys seen it. It's
46:22
Speaker 1: like this guy comes up to her and he's like, oh,
46:25
Speaker 1: is this seat taken? And she's like, no, go ahead,
46:26
Speaker 1: thinking that he means take the chair and he sits
46:29
Speaker 1: down and she's so uncomfortable. She is so it's so
46:34
Speaker 1: clear that she doesn't want to talk to him, and
46:36
Speaker 1: it is so clear that she's feeling creeped out. And
46:38
Speaker 1: I feel like we all know that feeling of do
46:40
Speaker 1: you just leave me alone? Like this is so weird
46:43
Speaker 1: and you don't want to be like leave because you
46:46
Speaker 1: don't know, you don't know what that's what's going to happen.
46:47
Speaker 1: And the powerlessness that comes with that feeling, And that's
46:51
Speaker 1: the feeling that I feel like we that's the conversation
46:54
Speaker 1: we don't have, is like, it doesn't have to be trafficking,
46:58
Speaker 1: a mere trafficking. It to be harmful and gross, and
47:02
Speaker 1: we need to discuss it, even if it's not as
47:04
Speaker 1: something as intense as you know, almost trafficking. We need
47:07
Speaker 1: to talk about the thing there's so much more common,
47:08
Speaker 1: which is dudes being creepy. Yeah. Yeah. And then when
47:13
Speaker 1: we do have to we try to have those conversations,
47:15
Speaker 1: it's almost always like men and a lot of women
47:18
Speaker 1: being like, well you could have just said something, or
47:21
Speaker 1: you could have just putting it back on you of
47:24
Speaker 1: well why didn't you just leave? Yes, there's so much
47:30
Speaker 1: to impact here. Thanks as always, Bridget for coming on.
47:34
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you'd like to say before we
47:36
Speaker 1: wrap up? No, just major shout outs to Michael Hobbs
47:39
Speaker 1: from You're Wrong about major shoutouts to blood Bath and
47:43
Speaker 1: Beyond on TikTok. And also if you want more information,
47:45
Speaker 1: credible information about trafficking, check out the Polaris Project. They
47:48
Speaker 1: have so many good resources and they're such a good organization. Yes,
47:52
Speaker 1: and you should also check Bridget out. Where can the
47:55
Speaker 1: listeners find you, Bridget, Well, you can find me at
47:58
Speaker 1: my podcast. There are no girls on the inner Net
48:00
Speaker 1: on the I Heart radio network, this very network. You
48:02
Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at Bridget Murray or on
48:05
Speaker 1: Instagram at Bridget Murray in d C. Yes, and we're
48:08
Speaker 1: so excited to have you and we can't wait to
48:11
Speaker 1: have you in the future. I'll come back anytime. We
48:15
Speaker 1: still have to do our sex in the city. Rewatch.
48:17
Speaker 1: We have not forgotten this. Yeah, I can't wait and listeners.
48:24
Speaker 1: If you would like to email us, you can or
48:26
Speaker 1: email Stuff Media mom Stuff at I hurt media dot com.
48:28
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram. Stuff I Never Told
48:30
Speaker 1: You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as
48:32
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks
48:35
Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You the
48:36
Speaker 1: protection of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio,
48:39
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen
48:41
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.