Latest / The Infertile Diaries / 6: Jaclyn Misch's Story

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6: Jaclyn Misch's Story · The Infertile Diaries

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I have a scenario for you.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine on a whim you decide to compete for Miss USA.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: You've never stepped foot in the pageant world and you have no idea how to walk in heels, let alone navigate the interviews, the competition, the politics, or the pressure.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: And guess what?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Somehow you win.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Now, imagine doing all of that while carrying a story very few people are willing to talk about.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: You were born with MRKH, a condition that means you were born without a uterus, and you decide to make that your platform, knowing full well that you would be the first woman to stand on a stage like this and speak about it publicly.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then people come for you, they insult you, they belittle you, they question your womanhood, they tell you that you don't even deserve the crown because in their eyes you aren't a real woman.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Would you still have the courage to stand?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Would you be willing to become a voice for the voiceless to absorb all the hate and push through the fear and keep showing up because you believe that God has called you to this very moment?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, for our guest today, Jaclyn, that scenario wasn't hypothetical.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was her reality.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it was only the beginning of a story marked by extraordinary courage, devastating loss, and relentless resilience.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Years later, Jacqueline and her husband would experience the unimaginable loss of their daughter Harper at 20 weeks.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: But even in their deepest grief, they refused to believe that loss would have the final word over their story.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Jacqueline has spent her life fighting against the limitations that other people have tried to place on her.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Fighting for her family, fighting for her identity, and fighting to become the woman God has called her to be.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: This is a story about what happens when life tells you no and you keep going anyway.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Join us as we hear Jacqueline's powerful story of loss, motherhood, and what it looks like to fight like hell for hope.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: We discuss all this and more.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Infertile Diaries.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't just a podcast.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is your place, and these are your stories.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: A place of heartbreak to hope.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is the Infertile Diaries Podcast.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for jumping on this morning.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because your story is incredible.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like Whitney has, you know, she started her um infertility support group, and I guess she's been following you and kind of catching up for years and years and years.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, well, how long?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I went back because I was trying to just learn a little bit about your story before you came on.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I told her, I was like, you know what was so cool is like, you know, when you're starting out your journey, um, I saw her likes.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know how that pops up.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like Whitney liked, and I was like, that is so cool.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's well, so my daughter is uh nine, she's almost 10, and she was my IVF baby.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I struggled.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think the height of my struggles was like back in 2015.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so especially back then, people in the infertility community were very prevalent.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's not a ton, right?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so one girl, Sarah Shockley, like while we wait, do you know her?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: She, I feel like I followed her forever.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: So just like different women, you know, in the infertility arena where you're just like, oh my gosh, you know, you just need that hope, you know.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the hope and the me too and the someone else going through it too.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: I remember just digging like the hashtag, just trying to find anything, IBF infertility, what is out there?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't, like you said, back then, it wasn't as prevalent.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: There wasn't as many.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's like everybody talking about it.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I actually like it because it but it just brings more support out there.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it makes you not feel like, oh, what's wrong with me?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, guess I gotta do this.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I guess this is our journey, and that's okay because other people are like that.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, it like just gave me hope.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, oh, okay, she made it, I can make it.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like she made it, I can do it.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I know you have some incredible accolades.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: You were Miss Michigan in um, I think I was looking up 2013, and then you did Survivor in 2014, which is yeah, that looks like a blast.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think my husband and I would love to do something like that.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, your journey has not been without its challenges.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: You have gone through some pretty dark times, and I would love for you to be able to just share your journey and kind of the highs and lows and how you've made it, and I'll give you the floor.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, give me the floor, it makes me nervous.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like there's just so much, and then you know, going so far back, it's like I want to convey like the emotional parts of it, you know, but it's just been so long.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: So that's I hope this comes out right.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: I said a prayer.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, just use my voice however you need to be able to do it.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: I always do every single time I we jump on.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, open my ears, open my heart.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a sermon, and you have to ground yourself in it.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're not, it's not really your story.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're telling his story.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I always say.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I always am like, this is your story, but it's his story that you're telling.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so go for it, girl.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and it might I know sometimes you feel like it's hard to convey some of the emotion, but I remember when I was struggling, I like I don't care what story it was, I hung on to every word.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, true.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: I did too.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: You're right.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like you just share it and you don't even know like how it's gonna impact others, you know.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you know what?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'll start out with this.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: When I want to hear, because you know, this is really crazy.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is a God thing for me.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: In the schoolyard, my friend was telling me about her friend that was born without a uterus.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What in the heck?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I did not like completely had no idea about the MRKH.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: No idea.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that is wild.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have never heard of this.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking, this was just like four weeks ago.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was very recent.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh Whitney tells me you're willing to come on, and I I look at it and I'm like, I there is someone that's gonna listen to this that literally, like, she is just on the brink of starting to have children, like um childbearing age.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so if nothing else, this is gonna help her.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: But what age were you?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you even find out you had this?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I was 15, approaching 16, and I still hadn't started my period.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I was, you know, I'm six foot now, so I was really tall and skinny, and my mom just kept saying, like, maybe because you don't have any like fat on your bones, maybe that's why.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: So eventually we went and got checked, and they um confirmed that I didn't have a uterus or a cervix or like part of my vaginal canal.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: So that at hearing at 16 was incredibly heavy and life-changing.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like during that time, 2002, you didn't want to be different.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: You wanted to be like everybody else, at least in my hometown.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like I it wasn't like a cool thing, you know, to like be so different.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember just feeling immediately different than all the other girls.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't have a period, and I would like pretend in the bathroom stall, like hearing them say, you know, do you have a tampon?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh no, not today, you know, or like in gym class with swimming, stuff like that was really hard.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and at that point, it wasn't so much like I can't have children, it was that I couldn't have sex.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I had to dilate and stretch my vaginal canal to be able to have penetrative sex.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: And at 16, it's like I had a boyfriend and like we really wanted to, and then I heard this news and it was just like, okay, I'm this is terrible, you know.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't, it was hard to talk to my mom and dad about it, even though they were there at my diagnosis, because it's such a personal thing.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's like sex, oh my gosh, with my mom and dad.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm 16, I don't want to talk about it.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: So that was kind of the first huge hurdle to get over.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, not get over, but kind of pivot and rethink like my life and how that was gonna go.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I did end up dilating.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: I ended up being able to have sex normally and fine.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I got to college and I opened up more to some girlfriends about it and told them about it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, just like basically everyone, they're like, What is this?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: I've never heard of this.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: How is this possible?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, kind of my the thing I would always say is like, but I have normal hormones and I think I have normal functioning ovaries because I have normal hormone levels.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: So So then when did you meet John?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I that was, you know, all that was high school, and then I went through four years of college and I met him shortly after my first job in an ad agency.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: We were going out with all the girls that worked there, and I met him at a bar.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, like as things start getting serious, I'm like, you can't love me, I can't have children, you know, like just so dramatic.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: And he was just okay with it.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, you know, we'll figure out a way we can adopt.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: There are other ways.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, it was like, okay, well, you know, if we do this, we could still, we could still do IBF and surrogacy, like that is an option.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: So we kind of had a hope, and it wasn't like a plan, but it was like, okay, we're gonna be all right.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, how long did you guys date for before you got married?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you were dating while you're on Survivor, right?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like you hadn't gotten married yet.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: So he is actually the one that pushed me to enter the Miss Michigan pageant.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: It was my first one.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh I literally like did my hair and makeup in my parents' camper because I grew up kicking.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, okay, like I don't know what I'm doing.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Here we go.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah but he pushed me to do it.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember standing there in the top three and having one of those like moments where you just like no, I was like, I think I'm gonna win.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: But I was scared.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: I like didn't want to win because I didn't know what it meant.
• 10:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, I didn't tell no one knew about MRKH.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: This was just like the secret thing still.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: So after I won, like a few weeks go by, and I get this message from some older woman that was in the Michigan Miss Michigan system for a while, and she was like, Oh, great, you're just gonna be another pretty face for a year.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: And it made me so mad.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, that's not who I am.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I won this, but I'm not like a pageant girl, I guess.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, so what so I was like, I went to my director and I was like, I have MR Cage syndrome.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what this is?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: And she's like, No, and I told her, and she's like, Let's do it, let's let's have that be your platform and come out with it.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so I did an interview on the local Detroit Channel 7, and that was kind of like the first of many interviews after that about bringing awareness to MRK syndrome.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so how was it received?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, did you get a lot of good feedback?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Were people kind of shocked?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what was people were saying?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: People were shocked.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: I remember there were some groups saying that like I shouldn't compete at Miss USA because I was like not a woman.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there was a lot of stuff like that.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I and so I partnered with the Beautiful U MRK Foundation at the time because they were affiliated with University of Michigan where I was diagnosed.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so they like had my back.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: They were like, it's this is fine, like you are a woman, like you deserve to be there.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: So um I competed at Miss USA.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't place, but I feel like the advocacy was like what it was meant for in the first place.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was the first like public figure to come out with it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I had women with MRKH from like all over the world that were sending me things to Las Vegas, like um, you know, in Ireland and all these places in Argentina, and I still have this picture framed.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's this woman from Argentina, and she's on top of a mountain and says she's holding a sign, it says MRKH strong.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I just I that just touches me to this day because I didn't think that it could be such a powerful thing to like win a pageant.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, because I didn't, I never even followed it.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know what it meant.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: And and look in hindsight, I'm like, God literally did that on purpose.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: I had like zero self-confidence, I couldn't walk in high heels, I didn't know what I was doing, but I feel like he just used that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: I was like a vessel for the message because it's just been going for so long now.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you think about it, it's so cool to think that like for someone struggling with MRKH, like if you feel like you're not a woman, right?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's probably, I mean, obviously, people were saying that.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's so awful and horrendous.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: But for someone struggling with that, to see someone on the ultimate beauty womanhood platform, right?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like how ironic and how amazing that God kind of like pushed you and John, right?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like into this platform that I'm sure for women struggling with maybe the shame of that was like groundbreaking for them.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so hopeful.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I and and to add to that, just like the lady sending you the message, which was so not nice um after you won, like just triggered it.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, that's not who I am.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was just like divine intervention all along the way, yeah.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just so you could be this like beautiful voice for others.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's really amazing.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, you win Miss Michigan, didn't place in Miss USA.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: You do Survivor, and so after you and John got married, take us through kind of like your process for when you wanted to start kids, like how you entered into that process to kind of take us into that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so Survivor was 2014.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: We got married in 2015.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: We did our first kind of appointment with a reproductive endocrinologist in 20, I think it was 2016 or 2017, but they green lighted us because they were like, your ovaries look great.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: So like, all right, we can do IVF.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: So we did our first round in it was 2016, uh, and we got six genetically normal embryos, but we had no plan.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: We were like, let's freeze them, like who knows what's gonna happen.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think we signed with our first surrogacy agency in 2017, and they were in at Northwestern, and so we had to send our frozen embryos from Michigan to Northwestern.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: We matched with a surrogate.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we did two transfers that failed, and the third was a chemical.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, in the agreement, it was we're gonna part ways now, like something's not working.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: And the agency responded to us like, with if you want to rematch, it's another$10,000.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: And we did not have that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: We were like, Yeah, okay, well, we can't afford to keep going this route, so let's just put it all on pause, which was devastating because it's like not only the physical barrier, but the financial barrier too, and you're just so emotional because you just can't do it.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: It was 20, I want to say 29.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: How old were you at this point?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: I was probably 29 or 30.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you so you're 29, you get six embryos, yeah, you spend at least$10,000, right, to get matched with the surrogate.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was like no fee.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because you got matched with the surrogate.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: So she had you have Lindsay knows more about this than I do.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: So we just lost so much money.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a so you have to pay that and you have no recourse, even though you go through three embryos and nothing takes.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you still you don't have to repay the agency fee because you're in the agency, but then she you can't.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very common with the surrogate C agency we use too.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: The surrogate can use it's three times, like three times you're out, which is terrible.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: But like that, even reproductive clinics, that's how they'll see it too.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: So then you have to pay to get matched again.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: Wild.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just the matching fee, but then you're paying right the surrogate, like every time that you have to do a transfer, right?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: You remember all those little fees that add up?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just like one fee, it's like, oh,$300 for this and then lunch.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's wild.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So so then you just you guys had to take a break when it didn't work after you're we had to regroup, and I'm like, oh my gosh, okay, are we going to live a child-free life?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are we gonna rethink everything?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so at that point, my husband was finishing dental school, and we got close with one of his family members, his cousin, who is a periodontist, and she was kind of mentoring him for work.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: And her and I started talking a lot, and she was kind of hinting at that she might be interested in helping us to be our carrier.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: She has three boys of her own.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so we all sat down one night, we were drinking wine, and she's and her husband was like, Go for it.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you want to do it, let's do it.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: So she agreed to be our gestational carrier in 2020.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that is when we went back to the IVF clinic and they were like, All right, let's do another round of IVF.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: Your embryos didn't take, we don't know why.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Let's do another round, like you said, like kind of regroup after three.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: So we did another round of IVF.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: We got two genetically normal, and there were two girls.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: So we transferred one, and everything was like perfect textbook.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, this is it, it's because she's family, like she's blood, like this is why it's gonna work.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: So everything's like textbook until our 20-week anatomy scan, and it was during COVID.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: So John has was like waiting out in the parking lot.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: I was the one that went in and we had our masks on.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember I was on the phone with him and I said, They're trying to find the heartbeat.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like, trying, and it didn't register in my mind because everything was fine.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then they couldn't find it on the Doppler.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember sitting there and Kelly held held, she her name's Kelly, she held my hand and she's like, It's gonna be fine, they're gonna find it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: And they brought in the ultrasound machine, and there was no heartbeat.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I just was in like complete shock.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I called John.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, get up here now, like screw the COVID rules, you know.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: So he they let him up, and we just like cried.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: We were like, How?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how we're 20 weeks, everything's fine, everything was fine.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, the the doc is like being you know, okay, like she's trying to help us process this, and but she has to like move it along too.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: So she's like, Okay, like you have the choice to deliver, or we can do a DNC.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: And Kelly's like, I want to deliver, so we were like, whatever you want to do.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um she's like, I think it'd be better if we delivered.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: So we oh my gosh.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry that's we went to the hospital and we were it was just such a crazy experience.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: We just cried, you know, it was five days before Christmas.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was snowing outside, and she, you know, she came out and we got to hold her, and I just couldn't believe it because I felt like I was sitting in this like old wooden rocking chair, right?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it was snowing outside, and I'm like, I feel like a mom, but I'm not, you know, like she's literally here, but she's not.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was such a out-of-body experience.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, we left the hospital and just processed everything, and we buried her three days later.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it was just like our parents that came and you know, went through the holidays, went through Christmas.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: I literally shut down from all social media for like three months.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: I told people what happened, I posted, and then I just like ghosted.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I can't, I need to just be okay for a minute.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, three months later, you know, I get back on, I start talking, and um Kelly said, We're gonna do it again.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, Kelly, what?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, are you sure?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, We're gonna do it again, we're gonna have a healthy baby, we're gonna do it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember being in the hospital room and looking at that weight scale, and I remember just like visioning a live, happy baby there.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: I had like this vision.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I see like a baby there.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so when we laughed, I'm like, okay, like we're gonna do it again.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: So we did another round of IVF.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: This was like nine months later.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, did another round of IVF.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: We got six genetically normal embryos.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's the thing too about the genetically normal embryos.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you never know.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's God's plan.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: God will give you the soul, but you know, we can only go so far.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: We geared up to do another embryo transfer, and it took, and we were pregnant, and you know, that 20-week scan came, and I'm freaking out.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we're you I bet John was there that time, yeah, no matter what.
• 20:57
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: 2022, and yeah, and then we delivered Logan.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Happy, healthy baby boy.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't know he was a boy, but I knew he was a boy.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: I knew it.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just had that intuition, yeah.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: And and Kelly had boys in her pregnancies that felt the exact same.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, this is a boy this time, it's gotta be a boy.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Then we had our creepy boy.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: When you held Logan for the first time, like, did that heal you from losing your daughter at 20 weeks a little bit?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I re I was just so worried something was gonna happen to him.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I just wanted the doctors to make sure he was okay.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: And he was, and I I was just remember feeling so terrified to break him or he was gonna die.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we were we were so psycho about just making sure he was okay.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: But it did.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: I it did heal me a little bit, and I feel like God just brought me us to that really low place to lean on him more.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like without that, I don't know if we would have been.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Had such a strong connection with God that we do now.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know you we're like getting to know each other, but Whitney wrote a book called The Baron Cry, and it's identical to what you just said.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was, um, and that's kind of even our basis for this podcast is you know, sometimes you're walk through the deepest, darkest waters and you're stripped of everything.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to be able to walk with him, like truly connect with him, like yeah to lean on him beyond your beyond all understanding.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, you've done a great job at writing that book.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: What would your your advice be to Jacqueline with everything that you wrote in there?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, just I I felt very similar.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like there was a time in our life where I was struggling with infertility, and my husband Lane was dealing with atrial fibrillation, which is um where your heart kind of beeps out of rhythm.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so he ended up having an ablation, and there was moments where I didn't know if he was gonna make it.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you're stripped of everything, your identity, like I wanted to be a wife, I wanted to be a mom, I wanted to have a family.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was in medical sales, I had this great job, and the whole company kind of fell apart because we lost some reimbursement for some of our products.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: I lost my job, and like when you're at the lowest, there is nothing else to hold on to, just that hope of Christ.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so, anyways, I in my book kind of like write through everything that I journeyed through, but I'm sure it's just very similar, kind of like with your journey where you're just at the lowest of the low, which is different for all of us.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: We all we all walk through very different hardships.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're not pro we're not promised no struggles on this earth.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the quite opposite, and it's just you know, it's how you show up in and the silver lining truly is once you get there and you find your faith, like you really start to identify with your faith.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: The blessings that come out of it and the gratitude you have are just I mean, what I have found in my personal journey.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just so grateful for my boys.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so extremely grateful.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm sure like you're just so grateful for Logan.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got him in a you've got him with ponies uh this summer in a camp.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know what else do you need, Logan?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, tell us.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's so hard not to spoil them.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it is.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: So to detour a little bit, I know one thing that I'm like so fascinated with was the um your ability to lactate.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a my husband's cousin used a surrogate because she wasn't able to carry, and she did the same thing, and we were together last weekend, and the baby's almost three, and she's still.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's incredible.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: I know she's she's pretty strong.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: So talk us through that journey.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how did you even know it was possible?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what was the process to make that happen?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: Bear was um another MRKH mom who had two boys, and I kind of followed her journey as kind of my model.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, like, okay, she did it, she did it, she's doing that.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: So she induced lactation.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so um I bought the book Breastfeeding Without Birthing, and I followed the Newman Gold Farb protocol.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember just getting my pump.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that was a whole thing getting the pump too, because the doctors were like, You're not gonna be able to do this, what are you doing?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was like, Oh, really?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: They were very discouraging.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because yeah, yeah, that was a whole thing.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: Good for you, girl.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, everybody ever.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: It was just like that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was a flashback to the girl that goes, Oh, another pretty girl for the area, like that tell me not to lactate, watch this.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know, it's like fueled in my fire.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, um, yeah, I started pumping, and you know, the latching in the hospital was like the best thing ever for me because it felt like you know, my body can do something, and he latched, and it was just such a beautiful thing.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, this is literally my biological baby boy, and I get to do something to help him grow.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: So that was so spectral.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm actually starting to pump again in two weeks to prepare for baby two.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like kind of gearing up for that right now.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Which is wild because you have to wake up and set your alarm throughout the night to pump to get your body like in sync, right?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I did it for three months prior to Logan's birth and then three months after, and then I was like, okay, I can't pump anymore.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just the it's a lot.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like my letdown wasn't strong enough, so he was just getting frustrated.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, we're just gonna pump.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: This it's fine.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that is incredible.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you were able to do that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have do you have to take medicine?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, because I had a surrogate as well, and I didn't know.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I told Whitney, I was like, I had no idea.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I could have been doing this, I would have tried.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, they told me I could buy my surrogate's breast milk.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: You could buy it, yeah.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: No one just gives it to you after$75,000 by nobody.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so I read your story and I was like, she pumped.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I like I'm like, I know, but we gotta let everybody know, man, that it can be done.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: That is awesome.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: So do you get put on medication?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, or what is like what's the process?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, first it's birth control with high estrogen and progesterone to mimic pregnancy for about a month, and then you go off that, and then you go on it's a pill called Dumperidone, which is I think it's a gastrointestinal medication.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually not FDA approved in the US, so we get it from Canada, but it's legal in other countries.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: They give it to breastfeeding women to up their supply.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's just not FDA approved here because they in the research they did, they gave it intervenous intervenously, um, and it caused like heart palpitations in higher aged women.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: So you gotta be monitored.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: Go check out if you're on domperidone.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but if you're like otherwise a healthy person, then it's usually fine, which is why it's administered in other countries.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: But um, so yeah, you take domperidone.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm taking it 10 milligrams three times a day.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: And what it does, it just it basically blocks the dopamine receptor in your pituitary gland.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: So your pituitary gland is what makes your body create milk, like not your ovaries, it's just like this thing in your brain, right?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: So it blocks the dopamine.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: It blocks the dopamine to your pituitary gland, which is allows the pituitary gland to produce prolactin.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: So that's like the milk making, whatever.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then so when you start pumping, it's like reinforcing the signal to your pituitary gland to start producing milk.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Wild.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: That is wild.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, how much did you have um enough?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you had enough for Logan for three months, or did you have to supplement two?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: I hadn't no, I had enough for about a month straight.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I made a thousand 1,100 ounces.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was amazing.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: My when I had my babies, my breast milk tapered, I think around like three, four months.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: With Sale, I hung on with one boob for two months, and then with the boys, I was like, you know what?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: We'll just call this a day.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like this time around, I'm a little more like before the first time I was very much like, I need to get as much.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: I ended up getting about 12 ounces a day, which is like half, like third to a half supply.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then we supplemented with formula, but um this time I'm gonna be a lot easier on myself.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm not gonna put so much pressure on.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like if it doesn't work and I'm done mentally, then I'm done.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, fine.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm gonna try.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you have Logan and you're like 30, right?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because you said this was back in 2020.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: 32.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, 32 when you had Logan.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so then take us through the process of now how you are obviously expecting a new baby.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: So take us through kind of that process.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: So we this time is different because it's not altruistic surrogacy, right?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: With John's cousin.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like we have to pay someone now.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it took us a long time to save enough money to be able to do it.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, which is uh explains like our age gap, I guess, a little bit.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: But it's all in God's timing anyway.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: So um we uh signed with our agency that our doc our IVF doctor's wife started in Ohio like 10-15 years ago, um, because she saw the need for gestational carriers because it was illegal in Michigan, so she opened in Ohio.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it was just kind of like a seamless thing when we find our agency.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and she matched us pretty quickly because she had known our story, she knew us.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: Dr.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: Shama, her husband, was with us through everything.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: He made all embryos.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: So we matched pretty quickly within like a month, and we met for the very first time at our embryo transfer, which seems wild.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and we clicked like on Zoom when we met on the match call, and it was kind of a Hail Mary, like a just I'm giving this all to God right now.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: If this is meant to be, this is gonna happen.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna trust whatever is gonna happen.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember telling myself, like, if God wants me to be a mom again, I'm gonna be a mom again.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: And if not, I'm gonna be okay.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's okay.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: We just give it all, like, take the wheel.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, we had our embryo transfer late January, and it took, and we were like, oh my gosh, this is happening.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is happening in everything since then.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks to God, it's been good.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: We're 27 weeks, so we're moving along.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Woo!
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've been that's amazing.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: Every every appointment, I brought Logan to an appointment, so he's gotten to see kind of like how he was born, which I really like to help him kind of understand a little bit better.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like, mommy doesn't have an organ, so we took my egg out and put it in my friend.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have in my house, we call them tummy moms.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I adopted, we adopted my first son, and then our second son was Saragusy, and they're not at the age where they can understand the difference.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we could I'm slowly introducing it to my adopted son, but they but they're called tummy mommies, and because mommy's tummy is broken, and that's what I've always said.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so easy.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of mommies, their tummies work, they have their babies, but mommy's tummy is broken, so I needed a tummy mom, and like so.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Does he know that your family member is his tummy mom?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Logan, yeah.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, he knows.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Auntie Kelly carried him.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like he's not, he just turned four.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: He like gets it, but he doesn't, you know.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Okay, let's go play with this, you know.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: I I think as he gets older, he'll really get it.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: And he loves her youngest son, Nick.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: He's I think 12 now, so that's fun when they play.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really special.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's so he's um he's gotten to go to appointments with you then and see his baby sister or brother, because you're not finding out yet, right?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: Again, yeah, no, we know.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: We had six IVF, we got six boys.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, girl, hold on to your seat.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: I know, right?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, here we go, another one.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so he's been and and and she has a two-year-old boy, so that's been fun too.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and he's he'll like explain it to my mom.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Yeah, she's carrying, she's growing my baby brother, but he's not done yet because Jesus is still making him.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yes, good job.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you said that she's in Ohio, so are you going back and forth between Ohio and Michigan?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she's in Toledo, so it's exactly an hour, so it's not bad.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's not bad.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's pretty incredible.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: So what's your due date?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: October 16th.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're soon.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're soon.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, has this pregnancy with um the surrogate been easier?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because kind of what you said, like your faith was strong, you just kind of let it go.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like you put your burden on him.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Did was that different than when um, you know, how you're saying you're scared of Logan, you got your miracle baby Logan, and now you're just like a little more relaxed.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, you have Logan that's like yeah, you know, not just I don't want to say the word distracting, but like, I mean, you've got you're taking care of Logan.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're playing with Logan, you're taking care of Logan.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so like it's just been a little more peaceful, would you say?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: This feels so much lighter.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I I don't I mean, for for multiple reasons.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was, you know, our first, we had just come off, our loss.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we didn't even know if we were gonna be parents, if it was gonna work.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: And this time just feels, yeah, just so much lighter.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've just given it to God, and God forbid, you know, n I pray nothing happens, but I I know that God will see us through everything no matter what happens.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel okay resting in that thought.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but a lot lighter.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I I mean, yeah, the first time I was with Kelly like every day too, because I was kind of like training to be a surgical assistant.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I would sit with her in her surgeries like all day for 10 hour shifts.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I would be like around her and like the baby's moving, or like what are we eating, or you know, I was like in it with her.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: Where this time, like, she's an hour away, so it feels a little bit more removed.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, which is hard because I feel like it's like you probably know, like it feels like it sucks.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can't carry your baby, it's always gonna suck.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's never gonna be like, oh, I want this, but I feel like it's what God wanted for me, so it's okay.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: I would say the difference between you and I with how like you have to wrap your right your mind around it, like you physically know you can't carry, right?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I still like they I had multiple chemical pregnancies, and I just couldn't hold a pregnancy.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: And my husband and I have been married 11 years, like he's everything's fine with him, everything's fine with me.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have regular periods, everything.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's like scientifically nothing wrong, but then it was just one of those things that you kind of just throw your hands up at the end of the day, I feel like, and be like, people have it worse.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't get to carry my own babies, you know what?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't get to breastfeed.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I have to walk away when I have here two moms that are talking about how they delivered or how they're breastfeeding.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay because I look at my babies and I know God found their way to me.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: He literally chose them for me and he chose the people that carried them for me.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so it's so special, actually.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's super special because then like you could have just sat in your room, even if you were the beautiful girl that got to rain for Miss Michigan for a a year, but you didn't.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, you used your voice to tell your story, and you know what?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I believe you're gonna get paid back for that.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: You might have five boys ruining your ideology, girl.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: But let me tell you, I do think that you you gotta follow your heart, you gotta f find your purpose.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: You've just you're just an amazing person.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for coming on to the show.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: We always love to ask our guests, and this is something we talk a lot about too.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you could talk to Jacqueline back, you know, in 2013, or even, you know, when you were just at the beginning of your process of trying to have a baby, like what would you tell her now that you're on the other side of this?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: Probably to tr lean on God more.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I didn't a lot in the very beginning.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like there was a plan this whole time.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I would probably just tell myself to rest in that thought more and lean on him more from an earlier stage.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like when we're kind of at the beginning of our journey, there's kind of this just tension, right?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Of like our desires, not knowing if it's ever gonna work out.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just so hard when you're in it to have faith and trust in God and just be sure of yourself.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like there's just so much beauty in that.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's what faith is, right?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Faith is believing that no matter how it works out, that you're gonna be okay, that you're gonna have a story, that God is gonna use you through whatever circumstances you walk through.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're not guaranteed a baby, like we're not guaranteed healing, but I just love your journey and I love your story, and I love everything that you've done to advocate for women.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's so impactful and empowering.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: I really appreciate being on.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't been on a podcast in like three years, so thank you.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for being patient with us as we figure everything out, like the volume up.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: We got it.
• 39:00
  unknown: We got it.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know what?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna keep baby number two in our prayers for an easy and safe delivery.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I just have to tell you, I don't know what it was like the first time, but I was they let me.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the nurse practitioner and the doctor when uh Beckham, my second child, was being delivered, they let me pull him out.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's girl, it was so amazing and crazy.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: And did you do it?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, did you hold it should be?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was shaking.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was shaking.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted me to grab the head.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: So they wanted me to grab the head and like pull, but I couldn't.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I you know, I get like if I get excited or whatever, like I my whole body shakes.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's like what happens to me.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like shaking because I was so excited, and I was like, I just don't feel comfortable pulling his head.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: So she pulled the head and then I grabbed the shoulders, yeah, and I pulled him out right onto me.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's worth it's worth the ask.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: All they can say is no, but just say, I know um someone, uh another intended parent did get this opportunity.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Can we do that?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 100% asking.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for telling me that.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't even think about that.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was really, it was really amazing.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: So well, and Lindsay's gonna be over here inducing lactation so she can uh nurse her friend's next baby.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Breastfeeding our five-year-old.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna help.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, Beckham.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's still, which is funny.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: He actually still wants a bottle at night.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, Beckham, if I call you out on that, but be like, okay, sorry, gonna bring it back.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's so funny.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Jacqueline, so much for being thank you for coming on.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: And please reach out when you're in Orlando.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to come.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to go to coffee or something.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I would love that.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, cool.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I okay, my son must be close in age, too.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: You said he's five.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and she has one too.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're the same age.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: He's so I've got nine, seven, and four.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it is four.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: So Shepard and Beckham, they are wild.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, can we add another wild four-year-old, boy?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's so funny because you've got girl moms and then you've got boy moms.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: I've got both, but like when you have purely girl moms give you judgy eyes, you're like, You don't even know.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even have to get their mom in four years.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I know.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: We went to a friend's house a couple weeks ago and we found Shepard on the roof on the second floor.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: The kids ran down, they're like, Mom, Shepard's on the roof.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Mike, I mean, that gives you an idea of just like how wild he is.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's four.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: We went to Disney yesterday.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: I took him on Space Mountain, and I'm like sitting behind him.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, are you okay?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, this is awesome.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: And his hands up and hands up.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, barely fitting into the trap.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: Who is this child?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: They're feral.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: I love them.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like Longman would love them.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: They would love me.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: He would jump right on and fun.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's so fun.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, go get your little buddy.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, go get his drink cheese.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we'd love that.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we'll talk to you soon.
• 42:23
  unknown: Bye.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you have been impacted by this episode, there are two things you can do for us.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: First is leave a review on Spotify or Apple Music.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: And second is to share this with a friend who is struggling.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: This helps us to spread our message of hope for others.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you would like to get in touch with Lindsay or myself, please email us at Infertal Diaries Podcast at gmail.com.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or you can go to our websites at WhitneyHenneman.com and everyone deserves a family grants.com.