Latest / Aging Parent TrapX / The Power of Attorney
Transcript
- Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Are you someone in your late to mid 40s, early 50s whose conversations are starting to be dominated by, oh my gosh, I have to do something to help my mom, I'm getting worried about her, I don't think she can live in her house anymore, then you need to watch this video. Let's go. My name is Allison Newland. the broker owner of Platinum Properties of Florida. And I am joined here today with Nikki Flynn from Elite Preparation Services and Julie Cook with Generational Transitions. And before we even get started, I want to let everyone know we are not here to provide you legal advice. We are simply talking about senior transitions into the next phase of life and how that is impacting Gen Xers essentially. adult children ⁓ the seniors now ⁓ out of their homes and having to go to live ⁓ independent or assisted living facilities. And we all have our own areas of business and we add our insights. but we are not giving you any legal advice. But today we are talking about the power of attorney. And I'm just going to go ahead and give this right over to Nikki Flynn. Nikki, why don't you explain what a power of attorney is? ⁓ it's so important? Nikki: . Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: anything you want to talk about in terms of the power of attorney. Nikki: Well, thank you very much for having me on here. Thanks, Allison. ⁓ So the word power of attorney is a very broad description of a document. So basically what it means is you are giving somebody who you nominate as your agent to be able to have attorney in fact power over making decisions when that time comes for you or for your loved ones. Now the one thing is, is there's different types of powers of attorney. So when people think, ⁓ I have a power of attorney, there has to be specific provisions in there to make sure it's going to actually work when they need it. So we have the healthcare power of attorney, which is a healthcare directive, which essentially states when I can no longer communicate what my wishes are, these are my nominated agents who I give permission to be able to speak on my behalf. These are what my wishes are for my care. And this is who I want to have HIPAA authorization to be able to find out information pertaining to me. Now, a durable power of attorney, that is the most powerful document that you can have. And that one pretty much allows somebody full control and access over you as an individual. Now, when we're talking about parents, a lot of times ⁓ start to see they're starting to get a little forgetful. ⁓ went to an appointment, you ask, how was your appointment today? What did the doctor say? they said everything's okay. Okay, that's really the case, but okay. But in order for you to be able to call that doctor's office and be able to say, hey, my dad had an appointment today or my mom had an appointment today, can you tell me it's not just the HIPAA authorization? They're gonna ask for that power of attorney as well because they need to cover their butts to make sure that they're not gonna be sued on the back end for giving out information that they're not supposed to be giving out. So when we say a durable power of attorney, that means that upon incapacity, which means springing, okay? So there's two different ways that this document can become effective. It's either immediately or it can be springing. So immediately means the minute they put that pen to paper and that notarizes that document, they can now act on the behalf of their parents in their best interests. Springing means it has to be accompanied with a letter from a doctor stating that they have become incapacitated. So those are two completely different roles of when those documents can be used. Now we'll talk about the downfall to the springing in a second, but what that means is that basically any time that there is a situation where you need to call their insurance company, you need to make an appointment, you need to get them into a facility, you need to arrange care, that means that that power of attorney has to give you authority Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: you Mm-hmm. Nikki: to be able to do that on behalf of your parents. So if it's not clearly stated for the protection of you and for the facility or the financial institution, they're going to say, I'm sorry, I can't allow you to do this because it doesn't clearly state that that is a provision that you are authorized to make decisions upon. So having that power of attorney is extremely important and making sure that it's drafted properly. because it's basically a document that they look at for guidance. What are you telling me that you are allowing this individual to have authority and power to be able to do on your behalf? There's provisions in there for talking with social security, Medicare, Medicaid. Those are governmental entities. They want those specific provisions in there that say, yes, I'm allowing this individual to qualify me for SSA benefits or Julie Cook: Peace. Nikki: to get me on Medicaid or Medicare disability, they need those provisions in there otherwise they will not allow your said agents to be able to move forward. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: So if somebody doesn't have that document, mean, bad stuff could happen potentially. Yeah. Nikki: Yes, and that's where the springing comes in also. So if you don't have the documents in place something were to happen and they've already become incapacitated. So that incapacitated, a lot of people just think, I'm in a coma. I can no longer talk anymore. That's not necessarily what it means. It could mean that you've been diagnosed with ⁓ a medical condition and for your safety, They are going to deem you incapacitated because you might be placed on narcotics. You might be diagnosed with dementia. You might have a late stage of cancer or MS, Lou Gehrig's, anything like that where the doctor's saying, for your safety, so somebody doesn't put documents in front of you and you sign your life away, I'm going to deem you incapacitated so you are not going to be legally responsible from this point forward for anything that you sign. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Right. Nikki: So before that is done, they usually will say, you have your affairs in order? Do you have documents in place? Because they want to make sure before they write that letter that there are documents in place to allow the family members the protection. But if it happens like that and it's an emergency, a car accident, something happens and you never regain consciousness, then there's no documents in place. And at that point you have to be awarded to go through the court system to be awarded guardianship, which is about a six to nine month process. So in the meantime, the family's in conflict and there is an advocate that is making decisions on behalf of that person and they don't know them. They don't know what their wishes are. So it can kind of mean bad things. So when a document says springing, this is something I see all the time. Unfortunately, as the clients get a little bit older, they start to develop signs of dementia. they sometimes can be a little combative and a little bit of a handful to where they don't wanna go to the doctors. They don't wanna be diagnosed. They don't wanna be told that they're becoming forgetful. Well, if that happens and you don't have that letter from the doctor stating that they are now incapacitated, your agents cannot act on your behalf. So you're in that gray area that really causes some conflict sometimes because Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Mm. Nikki: They're refusing to go to the doctors and you can't help them because your powers are not effective. So those are just some things that, you know, having these documents and making sure they're drafted properly are probably the two most important things for anybody who's going down this path with any loved one or a close family friend. This is something that you have to make sure that you take a look at and address because you don't want these... Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Right. Julie Cook: you Nikki: downfalls or these issues to come up when it becomes too late. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: I got it. Julie, you're ⁓ ⁓ line of work helping people find their next place go from the family home ⁓ typically either independent living ⁓ or... or my goodness, ⁓ having, ⁓ you, ⁓ my goodness, my mom's in assisted living and gosh, I mean, I know that I don't, always, maybe it's subconscious thing for me where I just, ⁓ don't it to be, ⁓ but is, you know, and so I just, try to. Julie Cook: Sisted. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: keep it out of my mind, right? Why don't you ⁓ give ⁓ ⁓ about what you have seen or see in ⁓ ⁓ needing to have that document or when it hasn't been available. Julie Cook: Yeah, so there's two things that I can piggyback and Nikki is the expert even though we're not giving legal advice. So I won't too deeply into this. But ⁓ things to keep in mind, especially for Gen Xers is ⁓ of attorney does not mean mom and dad can't make decisions. I think some people get nervous that I signed this document and I'm signing all of my rights away. Not at all. ⁓ is to protect you that if something should happen, ⁓ where you don't have, as Nikki stated, capacity, then somebody who knows you, knows your wishes, can step in and say, this is what mom or dad wanted. So as long as you have capacity and you're deemed that you're able to speak for yourself, that's in the background just as a backup. It does not take away your decision-making. And I think that's big, because when the folks that I deal with, when a power of attorney is brought up, that's the first objection is, I can't speak for myself anymore. Nikki: . you Julie Cook: As long as you have capacity, that's not an issue. thing that I would like to add to this is in addition to independent and assisted living, ⁓ help folks who need memory care services. Sometimes memory care is a standalone community. ⁓ it's inside of usually an assisted living community. ⁓ And is when this power of attorney is such a big factor because often you're dealing with folks who have ⁓ a diagnosis, Alzheimer's, something where ⁓ Nikki: . . Julie Cook: their capacity is in jeopardy. And so then you're talking about signing contracts, making financial decisions, things like that. And then that's when that power of attorney is so important. So I would just encourage you those documents in order as Nikki has stated. Hopefully you won't need them for a very, very, very long time. But if and when you do, ⁓ it's because of a gradual decline in your family member or in mom and dad, Nikki: you Julie Cook: or because of something that happens suddenly and they can't make decisions for themselves, you'll be very glad that you have those documents in place. A lot of peace of mind. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Yeah, I mean. Nikki: Okay. Okay. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: I think what this is going to bring to light for lot of Gen Xers, people my age, is that, okay, well, we need to make sure that's in place for mom and dad, but we need to make sure that's in place for us, for our own, you know, our own kids. We need to make sure that that isn't, know, not something that needs to be worried about. I mean, we don't ever want to face the fact that we're getting older and whatever, it doesn't have to be that. Something just, you know, not great could happen. Julie Cook: True. True. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: So I think Gen Xers are going to face for themselves. They might as well do it all together. ⁓ mom and dad don't have that kind of stuff already taken care of, do it all together. It could be a whole family event. when mom had her issue where she couldn't get up, she didn't have a bad fall, but she just kind of slid out of bed and couldn't Julie Cook: So Nikki: you Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: you know, I panicked a little bit. knew she had documents. I knew where they were. I just didn't know what they were. And so I, you know, got her situated and everything. But then I had to, and situated, just, you know, somewhere safe, somewhere under medical care. And then I had to go back to the house and I had to find the documents, sort through what it was ⁓ that had, and then contact ⁓ a legal professional to ⁓ get stuff that I didn't have in order because Julie Cook: So, we're Nikki: . you Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: It became clear pretty quickly that she wasn't going to be able to probably go back home and live by herself so now I was the person that had to make all of the decisions for her and We had to get some documents ⁓ ⁓ they did it they came ⁓ to the The rehabilitation center and did I had a notary come right there? That's an important thing that we were ⁓ before we got on this call today ⁓ ⁓ the notary Julie Cook: So This is the end of Nikki: . . Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Notarization process because Nikki I mean you can go into that a little bit because I was asking her if she just did these kind of document Preparations only in the state of Florida, but she does them elsewhere ⁓ well So if you are somewhere in another state and you need a referral for you know help in state just remember that ⁓ I think has contacts, but Nikki ⁓ also can this kind of stuff out of state But talk to them about the the ⁓ notarization process that you were telling us earlier. Nikki: Yeah, so a lot of people don't really understand like what a notary is. They just know when they get told, you have to take this document, you have to go get it notarized. ⁓ The most third thing it is like, oh, how annoying. Like I have to go find a notary. I have to go pay money to do this. Nobody really understands the point of a notary. So you are basically solidifying that, yes, I acknowledge the information that is on this page and I attest that it is a true statement. So it's like you are affirming that, yes, I confirm that this is my information and it's not with somebody who is biased. It's not a family friend, it's not a relative, it's a completely separate third party that has to take an oath with every state that they live in that basically says, okay, now I'm taking this oath, you have to go, you have to raise your right hand, you have to do the whole swearing in, all this stuff. because they have to make sure that you are going to uphold the law to make sure that they understand that this is another legal authority of them stating, I'm attesting that this is true. These are true statements. This is what my wish is. And we as notaries cannot just notarize any document because they say so. If they don't look coherent, they look like they're being forced or under duress. or they just might not be fully competent of what they're signing, we cannot notarize that document. So it's not just making sure that their face and their name match up with the ID. There's a whole bunch of, right? Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: which is what we all think of, you know, I mean, and you're right, the people would say, well, cause I mean, the last thing I had to have notarized was my daughter's, Julie Cook: That's it. ⁓ Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: sports forum to play sports in high school. And I go to the, you know, credit union to do that. And they barely even, I mean, they're not looking at anything doing that. And so, yeah, you don't even really think about it, but this is a very important document that has to be, you have to make sure that the person's coherent to sign it. ⁓ my gosh. Yes. Nikki: Yeah, so there's that whole legal background of being a notary and what we're actually doing when we notarize those documents. So there's nobody that can say like, oh, no, no, there was just two witnesses. Those are just neighbors. Of course, they're going to witness that. No, it's different when it's a notary because they legally cannot be related or know the person because then that's being biased. You're not supposed to be able to do that. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Yeah. Nikki: I mean, my sister has even asked me once before, like, hey, can you notaries a document from me? I'm like, absolutely not. Like, what is wrong with you? So, you know, it's like, it's an oath that we take that we're going to do this and we're gonna do it properly. And every state has their own rules of what a notary can and cannot do. I mean, notaries can sometimes even marry people, which is kind of crazy. When I found that out, when I moved to Florida, I was like, I don't wanna marry anybody. That's just too much of a responsibility. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: ⁓ Exactly. Right. I was married by a notary. ⁓ Nikki: Yeah, that was kind of crazy for me. was like, nope, nope, I'm not putting that down. That's not a step I want to do. Julie Cook: you Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: I was. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. The priest blessed it later, but I was married by That's so funny. So let me ask you another question about power of attorney. So you can have power of attorney for specific ⁓ You cover two different ones, like the selling of a house, example. ⁓ think ⁓ limited power of. Uh-huh. ⁓ Nikki: Those are limited. Yep. The limited. Yep. So if you just want to give somebody a small scope of a window of authority, like if you're in the middle of a transaction and you're about to go into surgery and you just want to cover your bases and you might say, okay, I'm going to give you a limited power of attorney to be able to complete this one said project or this one transaction. You can do that because it's only in that scope. So they can't go to your bank and empty out all your accounts and act on your behalf and stick you into a home. They can't do that. You're just saying, here's your scope. This is your window. This is the only thing you can do. And it is to expire on said date. And then after that, it gets tore up. means nothing. It no longer exists. So there's different types of those types of powers of attorneys that you can do as well. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: So you've seen those kind as well, Julie, where people are going into their memory or assisted living, ⁓ you've seen limited or you just usually see like a power of attorney or ⁓ hopefully in cases people can make their own decisions. Julie Cook: Yeah, so hopefully in most cases they can and that's that's you know, ideal. What I've seen more often is healthcare surrogates. ⁓ they've got somebody who's designated specifically for the medical side of things ⁓ Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Huh? Julie Cook: Sometimes you run into people like we talked last week about the fall. So they've gone through the hospital, they've gone through the rehab, and so they put into place someone to help with those medical decisions. And so oftentimes I'll run into that where it's not, as Nikki mentioned, a full power of attorney, but it's someone who's designated to help with healthcare decisions. Nikki: you Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Well, listen, it sounds like the most important thing is to have these documents, all of your documents, in order, no matter who you are, well in advance. So it's not a last minute kind of situation. But, ⁓ you know. Nikki: Mm. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Sometimes it is and you know, sometimes you're gonna just need to react. But that's why we are here having these conversations ⁓ and putting them out there so that it gives you something to think about and act upon wherever you may be. But if you need help in the greater Tampa Bay area, Julie Cook, Nikki Flynn, myself, Allison Newland, we are all here help answer some of your questions, ⁓ it in finding, you know, a place for Nikki: . you Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: mom and dad to go in terms of transitioning to a senior community. you need document preparation or you need help ⁓ ⁓ and dad's house ⁓ finding a property management company to manage it for you, I can refer you to that. ⁓ of our contact information will be in the description below, so feel free to reach out to either one of us. And if you guys ⁓ anything else to add, please ⁓ so now. ⁓ not, ⁓ we'll see you the next time that we come back. Nikki: you Julie Cook: So, Nikki: Yeah, I would just say that the most important thing is to be proactive, not reactive when it comes to stuff like this. So we definitely just, want to make sure like in your situation when you were mentioning like you knew mom had documents, but you didn't know what they said. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: That is that. Nikki: These are times where we need to be open with our family members and our close relatives and say, okay, I've done these documents, let's sit down and review them. So everybody knows what the wishes are and who needs to step in when. It just makes as little of a conflict between family members as possible. And if they don't have these documents in place, while people are still able to communicate and let you know what their wishes are. this is how you don't carry the burden for the remainder of your lifetime on did I really make the right decision for mom and dad? Is that really what they wanted? Because we didn't have these conversations while they are tough, and I understand nobody wants to talk about this, but you wanna have these conversations ahead of time because you don't wanna carry that burden on if you made the right decision, you're making their decision for them. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Yeah, very true. Julie? Julie Cook: That's huge. I'll piggyback off of what Nikki said. Being proactive. Nobody wants to have any of these kinds of conversations totally understandable. But like you mentioned, knowing where the documents are, what they say, so that when and if you're faced with this situation, you know wishes, you've got documents, you're ready to go. It's already a very stressful situation when there's major changes for your parents, for your family members. So having this in place is gonna reduce some of that stress. Allison Newlon, Greater Tampa: Yeah, that's really so important because we don't realize that we're absorbing all of the stress for everyone else as we're going on. Because there's always going to be one person that's probably going to be the most ⁓ in terms of trying to handle everything, but also bottling it all in and just being a ball of stress. But ⁓ why we're here having these conversations so we can help you through that process. Thank you so much for watching.