Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / SMNTY Playlist: Religious Trauma, Episode 6

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SMNTY Playlist: Religious Trauma, Episode 6 · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha, and welcome to stephone
0:07
Speaker 1: Never told your production of iHeartRadio.
0:18
Speaker 2: And welcome to our series on Christianity. We're just gonna
0:23
Speaker 2: leave it at that. We are now on part six
0:26
Speaker 2: of Christianity, Religious Trauma and the Marginalized Community aka Western
0:31
Speaker 2: Christianity and how it affects the Marginalized People, and so
0:35
Speaker 2: many more titles that I've given it at this point.
0:38
Speaker 2: But yeah, the series just keeps growing. Every time I
0:41
Speaker 2: think I'm going to be talking about two or three
0:43
Speaker 2: things in a series, it ends up being just one thing.
0:45
Speaker 2: And that's where we are today once again. But before
0:49
Speaker 2: we start, there is content warning. We are talking about
0:51
Speaker 2: religious trauma, sickness, domestic violence, and divorce, and I don't know,
0:55
Speaker 2: divorce can be a sticky subject, especially if you're going
0:57
Speaker 2: through one or you're going through bad parts in your
0:59
Speaker 2: marriage and you don't want to hear about it. We're
1:01
Speaker 2: talking all about divorce today, So go ahead and skip
1:03
Speaker 2: this one, just so you know, And as a quick review, Annie,
1:08
Speaker 2: because I know I've been stringing you along in this
1:10
Speaker 2: entire series. As I'm like, hey, we'll do this is
1:13
Speaker 2: another day or longer than I thought let's just do
1:17
Speaker 2: this quick review. We've talked about women in Western Christian
1:20
Speaker 2: communities and traditions, religious trauma, which is you know, present
1:25
Speaker 2: all throughout, the misogyny that heavily influences this culture, the
1:30
Speaker 2: toxicity of purity culture, which also seems to be a
1:33
Speaker 2: whole topic in every single one of our episodes, sexual
1:37
Speaker 2: abuse in Southern Baptist Convention, Courting marriage and motherhood, which
1:42
Speaker 2: was a fun one. And today we are continuing down
1:46
Speaker 2: that look of relationships, I guess, with a look at
1:49
Speaker 2: Western Christianity and divorce. And right now we are going
1:53
Speaker 2: to talk pretty in depth about divorce. Some of it
1:57
Speaker 2: doesn't really have to do with religion. We're just kind
1:59
Speaker 2: of talking about of the process and some of the
2:01
Speaker 2: conversations and statistics. This is mainly applied to the United States,
2:06
Speaker 2: because I know, and we want to come back because
2:09
Speaker 2: we had a fun conversation, and I say fun in
2:11
Speaker 2: that we were both like, huh, I wonder what this is?
2:14
Speaker 2: What this is about how to get a divorce?
2:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I didn't know that there were all these
2:19
Speaker 1: stipulations that you can't just get a divorce.
2:22
Speaker 2: Well, so we're going to talk about the no fault
2:24
Speaker 2: divorce in a minute. Apparently there's other things that have
2:26
Speaker 2: been put in place for a while, but it's about
2:29
Speaker 2: how people can test things and how it gets messy.
2:31
Speaker 2: So and different states have different rules and different belief systems,
2:36
Speaker 2: and different kind of communities in denominations also have their
2:41
Speaker 2: own rules. Yeah, but all of that, and then different
2:44
Speaker 2: countries have their own rules as well. So we're centering
2:48
Speaker 2: this around the United States. And yes, eventually it does
2:51
Speaker 2: come back to how Christianity handles divorce as well, so
2:56
Speaker 2: I promise this all applies. So before we start, I
3:06
Speaker 2: kind of wanted to talk about my personal experience about
3:08
Speaker 2: divorce in my church that I grew up with, because
3:11
Speaker 2: this is a very personal subject growing up very religious
3:16
Speaker 2: and coming out of religion as I knew it. And
3:19
Speaker 2: I've seen the emails that y'all have been sending about this.
3:21
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I know people have been connecting
3:24
Speaker 2: with what I've been saying, as well as people who
3:26
Speaker 2: are still involved in the church and finding their own path,
3:29
Speaker 2: and it's beautiful. Thank you for those messages. But yeah,
3:32
Speaker 2: I kind of want to talk about what I experienced,
3:34
Speaker 2: and again, my church is a little different. It's not
3:37
Speaker 2: big and that is part of the Southern Baptist Convention.
3:40
Speaker 2: It's not a part of the Presbyterian Churches. It's not
3:42
Speaker 2: a part of any of those denominations. It kind of
3:45
Speaker 2: has an independent feel about it and it's very local.
3:48
Speaker 2: So this experience can be unique in that way. But
3:51
Speaker 2: I feel like overall, especially when it comes to old
3:54
Speaker 2: school way of thinking and when we talk about the
3:58
Speaker 2: traveling preachers and all of that, this is kind of
4:00
Speaker 2: that circuit that this is the influence that fell onto
4:04
Speaker 2: my community, like that that hell five brimstone level. So,
4:08
Speaker 2: growing up in a small town in Georgia, the word
4:10
Speaker 2: divorce had so many implications. It was a sin, and
4:15
Speaker 2: I'm going to put a capital s sin. Divorce was
4:18
Speaker 2: not only a personal failure, but a moral failure and
4:21
Speaker 2: a failure on your family, one that had to be
4:24
Speaker 2: answered in front of the church. Dixie Church, though in
4:28
Speaker 2: my experience, the members did not necessarily have to get
4:31
Speaker 2: permission from the church, but oftentimes had to go after
4:34
Speaker 2: the fact to face the deacons or leaders, typically men
4:37
Speaker 2: of the church, and if they are not satisfied with
4:39
Speaker 2: the answer, you would be reprimended and oftentimes expelled from
4:43
Speaker 2: that church. So your membership would be done, and I
4:45
Speaker 2: don't As a kid, when I heard membership your name
4:48
Speaker 2: was in the book, I thought it was a literal thing.
4:50
Speaker 2: I don't think it is. I don't know, but that's how.
4:54
Speaker 2: That's how I pictured this, because I will say when
4:58
Speaker 2: I was quote unquote say became a member, I didn't
5:02
Speaker 2: sign anything, so I don't know how that happened. I
5:05
Speaker 2: did say I wanted to be a part of this
5:06
Speaker 2: church in front of the members. I don't know. I don't know.
5:10
Speaker 1: I bet churches do that differently. I feel like my
5:12
Speaker 1: church had like a book of memberships.
5:15
Speaker 2: Yea, there may be one. I really don't know, but
5:18
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't And then they had to take letters,
5:21
Speaker 2: like if they wanted to go to a different church,
5:23
Speaker 2: they had to take their letter. And I was like,
5:25
Speaker 2: is that physical? Is that a physical thing? And I've
5:26
Speaker 2: never personally seen it though, so I don't know it's
5:32
Speaker 2: the whole thing, but yeah, the level of shame placed
5:36
Speaker 2: on people getting divorced is overwhelming. The way they looked
5:41
Speaker 2: down on divorce and even in pragice, the outside of
5:43
Speaker 2: marriage and God forbid abortion was extreme. Having an affair
5:49
Speaker 2: or even even abusing a spouse was less shameful, mostly
5:53
Speaker 2: justifying it as a quote mistake. Even again, we talked
5:57
Speaker 2: about it with people hiding sexual abuse within church, hiding
6:02
Speaker 2: all of those things and being like they made a
6:04
Speaker 2: mistake of rewording it. They send against their marriage instead
6:08
Speaker 2: of being no, you raped somebody, that's that's bad. But
6:12
Speaker 2: I will say maybe murder would be considered on that level,
6:15
Speaker 2: but only if that murder was not justified for a
6:19
Speaker 2: holy reason, and sometimes even excusing husbands who killed their wives.
6:24
Speaker 2: Recent articles written about the man who killed his entire
6:27
Speaker 2: family had so many excerpts talking about how godly he
6:32
Speaker 2: was and how attentive he was to his church, his family,
6:35
Speaker 2: his mom and dad, siblings made sure that his obituary
6:39
Speaker 2: and messages from acquaintances only acknowledged how godly and christian
6:43
Speaker 2: like he was, even having the audacity to say he
6:47
Speaker 2: loved his murdered family and fought to keep them together,
6:51
Speaker 2: never admitting to his abusive and overall deadly treatment of them.
6:55
Speaker 2: It was horrifying, and if I remember correctly, his church
7:00
Speaker 2: supported that statement. Oh yeah, wow, yeah. And then you
7:04
Speaker 2: look at murders like the Atlantis spallshootings and murders of
7:07
Speaker 2: so many quick people that have often been praised by
7:10
Speaker 2: extremist conservatives and Christian nationalists. Again, we're talking about recently,
7:16
Speaker 2: any of the Black Lives Matter protest murders that have happened,
7:20
Speaker 2: whether it's I don't even want to talk about him,
7:23
Speaker 2: Kyle was his face. I don't want to acknowledge him,
7:26
Speaker 2: or people like that. The dude in Texas who used
7:29
Speaker 2: his vehicle to hurt people, they've been praising him instead
7:33
Speaker 2: of acknowledging, Hey, this is bad. Why are you condoning this? Yeah,
7:37
Speaker 2: so it isn't shocking that morality is judged harsher than
7:41
Speaker 2: actual murder and abuse. But that's a different episode. I
7:44
Speaker 2: was going to talk about it in this episode, but
7:46
Speaker 2: I didn't have time. We don't have time for that,
7:48
Speaker 2: so that's gonna be a whole different conversation. Yeah, and
7:51
Speaker 2: my parents have been together for over fifty years now,
7:54
Speaker 2: and I've mentioned it before that they were really happily married.
7:58
Speaker 2: I think they really whether the harshest storms together. They've
8:03
Speaker 2: beat the odds, and I'm pretty sure they'll die together.
8:06
Speaker 2: And I don't mean like they're they're gonna make a
8:09
Speaker 2: pact or anything like if one goes, the other one
8:11
Speaker 2: is gonna follow soon after, and that's like, that's the
8:14
Speaker 2: happiest thing I could think for them, so they don't
8:16
Speaker 2: have to be without each other. But my siblings are
8:18
Speaker 2: a whole different story, and I'm not gonna get too
8:20
Speaker 2: into their stuff, but I will say each one went
8:23
Speaker 2: through their own messy divorce with an unhealthy dose of guilt,
8:27
Speaker 2: but each would say they're happier and don't regret their decisions.
8:31
Speaker 2: I think our church was shocked and a lot of
8:33
Speaker 2: judgment was passed. It was a rocky time for our family.
8:37
Speaker 2: The amount of people who have known us all of
8:39
Speaker 2: our lives, have seen us grow up in that church,
8:42
Speaker 2: who actually turn their backs on our family was astounding.
8:47
Speaker 2: It was and I was young. I was I guess
8:50
Speaker 2: it was middle school when things were happening, and to
8:51
Speaker 2: see that reaction from somewhere that I thought I was
8:54
Speaker 2: loved was a chocking moment, so much so that we
8:59
Speaker 2: didn't talk to those people, and we still don't talk
9:01
Speaker 2: to those people till this day. It's been more than
9:04
Speaker 2: a decade since these incidents. More has probably longer. It's
9:08
Speaker 2: been a long long time, probably twenty years for some
9:11
Speaker 2: of these things I don't know, and it caused a
9:14
Speaker 2: huge divide in our church community. They took size and
9:17
Speaker 2: made sure you knew which side they were on. If
9:19
Speaker 2: they didn't take a side, it was because they felt
9:23
Speaker 2: sorry for us, but didn't want to say it to
9:25
Speaker 2: our face, because they didn't want the other people who
9:27
Speaker 2: were judging us to feel like they were taking side.
9:30
Speaker 2: So it was really, really, really u interesting. It was bitter,
9:34
Speaker 2: and it was gross, and it was very unforgiving, and
9:37
Speaker 2: it didn't matter the reason. It didn't matter what the
9:39
Speaker 2: justification was. It was divorced and that was bad. And
9:42
Speaker 2: my family wasn't the only one that went through this.
9:45
Speaker 2: Any divorced individual felt that really harsh thing of judgment
9:49
Speaker 2: that many of the elders felt justified in passing and
9:52
Speaker 2: may even call them out during sermons. Many of these
9:55
Speaker 2: people fled from the church, feeling unwelcomed in ex community
10:00
Speaker 2: and isolated themselves away from any of the people of
10:03
Speaker 2: that church, literally hid away from some of the members.
10:06
Speaker 2: But instead of being angry at the people who felt
10:09
Speaker 2: that they had to the authority to shame anyone and everyone,
10:12
Speaker 2: they just felt guilty and felt like they deserved this
10:15
Speaker 2: and for so many felt like this ruined their lives.
10:17
Speaker 2: I will my family again are at the end of
10:20
Speaker 2: like understanding what they had to do. They had to
10:22
Speaker 2: do and they can't change people's minds. But so many
10:25
Speaker 2: others let this ruin their lives. And I'm not exaggerating.
10:28
Speaker 2: They wouldn't even come to the parking lot of the
10:31
Speaker 2: church because they felt that ashamed, and if they did,
10:33
Speaker 2: they made sure to stay in the car and have
10:35
Speaker 2: the windows rolled up so no one would see them.
10:39
Speaker 2: And I know many have felt a shame and judgment
10:42
Speaker 2: and it's old fashioned. Though the times have changed, the
10:45
Speaker 2: traditions and moral judgments still remain. Like I said, we
10:48
Speaker 2: don't talk to these people. So with that bitterness in mind,
10:55
Speaker 2: who I will say. I think it's a partial reason
10:57
Speaker 2: why I'm not married and I don't care about me
11:00
Speaker 2: age because I've seen what people do in this level
11:03
Speaker 2: of like I can judge you if they go wrong.
11:07
Speaker 2: But right, so we're going to talk about it, and
11:10
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about it. Is I've given all
11:12
Speaker 2: the personal accounts in a more statistical way.
11:15
Speaker 1: First, yes, yes, okay, So when it comes to divorce,
11:23
Speaker 1: the statistics do you vary? Although most of us have
11:27
Speaker 1: heard that almost fifty percent of marriages end in divorce.
11:30
Speaker 1: But when it comes to what the numbers are really
11:33
Speaker 1: and what are the numbers when it comes to gender
11:35
Speaker 1: and to religion, specifically to Western Christianity, that's a bit
11:39
Speaker 1: harder to pin down too. Right. Just recently, Forbes published
11:43
Speaker 1: an article titled Revealing Divorced Statistics in twenty twenty three,
11:47
Speaker 1: and we wanted to share some of the findings that
11:49
Speaker 1: they reported. The half of the marriages ending in divorce
11:52
Speaker 1: statistic actually only applies to first marriages, but for those
11:56
Speaker 1: who maybe in their second or third marriage, which is
11:59
Speaker 1: the highest horse rate around to seventy three percent, they're
12:02
Speaker 1: more likely to get divorced. The average length of a
12:05
Speaker 1: marriage before divorce is eight years. That's interesting. However, the
12:11
Speaker 1: divorce rates have gone down over the years, with the
12:14
Speaker 1: exception of a small spike during lockdown and the initial pandemic,
12:19
Speaker 1: but so have the rates of marriage.
12:21
Speaker 2: Right, But again, who is getting divorced? It looks like
12:24
Speaker 2: people who have friends that are divorced are more likely
12:26
Speaker 2: to get divorced. You're gonna get influenced. I'll be streaming
12:29
Speaker 2: whatever for me again, I just don't get married. The
12:35
Speaker 2: remarrying thing is a factor. More boomers are getting divorced,
12:39
Speaker 2: with an increase of forty six percent divorce rate for
12:42
Speaker 2: ages fifty five to sixty four, which I found interesting.
12:45
Speaker 2: But the average age of people getting divorced is forty
12:48
Speaker 2: six for men and forty four for women. So I'm
12:51
Speaker 2: not gonna prime again because I'm not married. I guess
12:54
Speaker 2: people with high school education are less are more likely
12:57
Speaker 2: to get divorced as well. So why are they get divorced?
13:00
Speaker 2: The number one reason is lack of commitment, followed by
13:04
Speaker 2: infidelity and affairs, And again, the final straw is often
13:09
Speaker 2: something specific like domestic violence, affairs, and substance abuse. But
13:14
Speaker 2: the article also writes, quote interestingly, couples often disagree on
13:18
Speaker 2: what the final straw was that led to the end
13:20
Speaker 2: of their marriage. In fact, not a single couple reported
13:25
Speaker 2: the same deciding issue as the ultimate reason for the
13:29
Speaker 2: end of their marriage, which I think says a lot
13:31
Speaker 2: to the communication part.
13:33
Speaker 3: Yes, I think it does as well.
13:36
Speaker 1: One other interesting statistic before we talk about the religious portion,
13:40
Speaker 1: women are far more likely to initiate the divorce. According
13:44
Speaker 1: to that Forbes report, sixty nine percent of divorces are
13:47
Speaker 1: initiated by women, and if you break it down specifically,
13:51
Speaker 1: the report stated that seven out of ten dissolutions are
13:53
Speaker 1: initiated by women, and this is based on heterosexual relationships.
13:59
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of conversations recently on why women
14:02
Speaker 1: are leaving. In a twenty twenty two BBC article titled
14:05
Speaker 1: why women file for divorce more than men, they talk
14:08
Speaker 1: about different factors as to why women are leaving and
14:11
Speaker 1: here are some of the reasons. Being able to be independent.
14:16
Speaker 1: Unlike the old traditional ways of men being breadwinners, women
14:19
Speaker 1: are more educated and more successful in their careers and
14:22
Speaker 1: have become more ambitious. As the article says, quote, women's
14:26
Speaker 1: entry into the workforce enabled them to leave unhappy marriages
14:29
Speaker 1: for the first time. They were no longer financially bound
14:32
Speaker 1: to remain in abusive partnerships or relationships where their needs
14:35
Speaker 1: were not being met, and women thus began to initiate
14:37
Speaker 1: divorces at greater scale. And it goes on quote This
14:42
Speaker 1: also helps explain why women with university level education are
14:46
Speaker 1: so much more likely to end a marriage across cultures
14:49
Speaker 1: and geographies. Women who are economically able to take care
14:52
Speaker 1: of themselves, which usually is tied to higher education levels
14:55
Speaker 1: are more likely to initiate divorce than women who are
14:58
Speaker 1: unable to economically sustain themselves and their children, as Heidi
15:02
Speaker 1: car a psychologist and expert on domestic violence at the
15:05
Speaker 1: US based Education Development Center right.
15:08
Speaker 2: And on top of that, there are also emotional factors
15:11
Speaker 2: between the social construction of women being more of the
15:14
Speaker 2: emotional caregivers as well as being more socially constructed to
15:17
Speaker 2: be emotionally intelligent. Women typically have higher expectations than what
15:21
Speaker 2: is being met emotionally by the husbands, and again we
15:24
Speaker 2: are talking heteronormative relationships and standards. Here's a long quote
15:28
Speaker 2: from the BBC article. For many women, the expectations they
15:32
Speaker 2: have when they intermarriage may fail to match up to reality.
15:36
Speaker 2: Experts say they often have a higher expectation of how
15:39
Speaker 2: a partner will meet their emotional needs than men, which
15:42
Speaker 2: can lead to disappointment post wedding. Glisa fort Martinez, specialists
15:46
Speaker 2: in conflict resolutions, says because men are usually socialized to
15:49
Speaker 2: have lower emotional intelligence than women, this can lead to
15:53
Speaker 2: female partners feeling unsupported and doing much of the emotional
15:56
Speaker 2: labor in the relationship, which also means women are more Finally,
16:00
Speaker 2: attuned to problems in relationship red flags, and their tendency
16:04
Speaker 2: to be the primary communicators and empathizers means that they
16:08
Speaker 2: may also be the first to raise issues, perhaps ultimately
16:11
Speaker 2: resulting in separation or divorce. Women also tend to gain
16:15
Speaker 2: fewer emotional benefits from marriage, which could make single life
16:19
Speaker 2: seem more appealing. While married men experience multiple perks, including
16:23
Speaker 2: living longer and earning more money, women don't usually benefit
16:27
Speaker 2: from their relationships in the same way. Instead, they bear
16:30
Speaker 2: the brunt of household and child rearing labor, which can
16:33
Speaker 2: leave working women quote overwhelmed in stress as fort Martinez.
16:37
Speaker 2: So in another article written specifically from a diverse law firm,
16:41
Speaker 2: the Women as Law Firm, they talk about the factor
16:44
Speaker 2: of men not paying attention to their own mental health needs,
16:47
Speaker 2: which often leaves the wives taking on more emotional responsibility.
16:51
Speaker 2: So here's a quote from their article. By not taking
16:53
Speaker 2: care of their own mental health or working on their
16:55
Speaker 2: communication skills, women find themselves taking on more emotional responsibility. Occasionally,
17:01
Speaker 2: they end up being the only emotional support for the
17:04
Speaker 2: entire family without the assistance of their partner. This emotional
17:07
Speaker 2: burden takes its toll on women. They often feel alone
17:11
Speaker 2: and as they have no support system within their marriage,
17:14
Speaker 2: the mental, physical, and emotional toll of that overburdening responsibility
17:18
Speaker 2: is a major contributing factor when women are considering divorce.
17:21
Speaker 1: Then there's also the social factor. One thing we've seen
17:25
Speaker 1: in heterosexual relationships a lot is that men do not
17:28
Speaker 1: have many close friends.
17:29
Speaker 3: We've talked about that before.
17:31
Speaker 1: It is more likely that women continue and maintain close friendships.
17:37
Speaker 1: Another quote from that BBC article said women quote have
17:41
Speaker 1: a better support system both to discuss any marital issues
17:44
Speaker 1: as well as to ease the transition back into single life.
17:47
Speaker 1: It's also possible these friendships make divorce seem like a
17:49
Speaker 1: more plausible option. Research suggests that if a close friend
17:53
Speaker 1: gets divorced, people's own chances of divorcing arise by seventy
17:56
Speaker 1: five percent.
17:58
Speaker 3: The influencing.
18:00
Speaker 1: There you go, and one of the other reasons why
18:07
Speaker 1: women may be initiating the Great divorce is just simply
18:11
Speaker 1: for a resolution. The BBC article rights, filing for divorce
18:14
Speaker 1: isn't the same as ending a marriage. While research shows
18:17
Speaker 1: women in heterosexual marriages are more likely to initiate the breakup,
18:21
Speaker 1: there are also women who didn't choose in their relationship
18:24
Speaker 1: but want our need to formalize the split. Nonetheless, quote,
18:27
Speaker 1: women tend to be more motivated than men to resolve
18:30
Speaker 1: their marital status, says Katie Spooner, partner and head of
18:33
Speaker 1: family law at Winkworth Sherwood, London. She says, based on
18:36
Speaker 1: her client record, most men are happy to remain separated
18:39
Speaker 1: unless there is a new relationship or particular imperative to
18:43
Speaker 1: sort their finances.
18:58
Speaker 2: There is a reason where men may be the one
19:00
Speaker 2: to file for divorce instead of women, and that's because
19:03
Speaker 2: of illness. One of the first things that pop up
19:07
Speaker 2: when we research divorce in marriages has been articles on
19:10
Speaker 2: men leaving women due to illness. In fact, when I
19:13
Speaker 2: put in Google men divorce, it automatically auto filled with
19:18
Speaker 2: sick wives, which made me very angry. This is even
19:22
Speaker 2: being talked about on TikTok. I've seen this often and
19:25
Speaker 2: it hurts me. It hurts my feelings. So what's happening?
19:29
Speaker 2: So in a two thousand and nine Ruters article titled
19:32
Speaker 2: men more likely than women to leave a partner with cancer,
19:35
Speaker 2: they write women are six times more likely to end
19:38
Speaker 2: up separated or divorced if they are diagnosed with cancer
19:41
Speaker 2: or multiple sclerosis, then if their male partners were facing
19:45
Speaker 2: the same illness then this is according to a US study.
19:48
Speaker 2: The study confirmed earlier research of a divorce or separation
19:50
Speaker 2: rate among cancer patients of eleven point six percent, similar
19:54
Speaker 2: to the general population, but found the rate jumped to
19:56
Speaker 2: twenty point eight percent when the women was sick versus
19:59
Speaker 2: two point nine two percent when the man was ill.
20:02
Speaker 1: And apparently, fourteen years later, that hasn't changed. In another
20:06
Speaker 1: article written for today dot Com, men are more likely
20:09
Speaker 1: to lead their wives if sickness is involved. Here's the
20:12
Speaker 1: quote from that article. They decided to do a study
20:15
Speaker 1: after noticing divorce appeared to occur almost exclusively when the
20:18
Speaker 1: wife is the disease afflicted partner. The phenomenon was called
20:21
Speaker 1: partner abandonment in Patients with serious medical illness. The results
20:25
Speaker 1: were based on five hundred and fifteen patients at three
20:27
Speaker 1: medical centers who had a brain tumor, cancer or multiple
20:31
Speaker 1: sclerosis and were married at the time of diagnosis. About
20:35
Speaker 1: half were women. When the patients were followed for four
20:38
Speaker 1: to five years to see if their marital status change,
20:41
Speaker 1: it turned out the woman was the affected spouse in
20:43
Speaker 1: almost ninety percent of separations, with the female gender found
20:46
Speaker 1: to be the strongest predicator of separation or divorce, and
20:51
Speaker 1: in that article, the author of the study explains men
20:54
Speaker 1: may be very well equipped to be primary providers, but
20:57
Speaker 1: not so well equipped to be primary caregivers doctors. Mark Schamberlaine,
21:01
Speaker 1: the study co author, told Today, I think men are
21:03
Speaker 1: challenged in caring for someone who has disease and treatment
21:06
Speaker 1: related symptoms, managing the stress, managing the logistics right.
21:11
Speaker 2: And there are many articles writing about the level of
21:15
Speaker 2: unpreparedness of men becoming caretakers and taking on any type
21:19
Speaker 2: of household responsibility. So here's a quote from a Guardian article. Tomer,
21:23
Speaker 2: a sociologist from the University of Alabama who studies how
21:26
Speaker 2: gender affects couples when a partner gets sick, says, in
21:28
Speaker 2: most couples, people understand they will need to support their
21:31
Speaker 2: partner if they get sick. But she says men and
21:34
Speaker 2: women interpret what caregiving looks like very differently. Men tend
21:37
Speaker 2: to view the partner getting sick in almost a mechanical way.
21:40
Speaker 2: They see it as a problem to be solved. They
21:42
Speaker 2: can separate out the obvious and immediate physical tasks that
21:45
Speaker 2: result from the illness, but other caregiving requirements are left unconsidered,
21:50
Speaker 2: such as emotional care or housework, which I feel like
21:52
Speaker 2: that's physical but okay. This means that a lot of
21:55
Speaker 2: the time women continue to do that work, and when
21:58
Speaker 2: they don't, problems.
21:59
Speaker 1: Can and they continue. Talking about a study completed in
22:04
Speaker 1: Germany Quote twenty eighteen, Researchers in Germany used a nationally
22:07
Speaker 1: representative sample to show that as long as they are
22:10
Speaker 1: still able to, women continue to do an uneven amount
22:13
Speaker 1: of the housework while they are sick. If that was
22:15
Speaker 1: the dynamic in the relationship before they became unwell, particularly
22:19
Speaker 1: with more mild conditions, the expectation is that the status
22:22
Speaker 1: quo will go on unless it gets so extreme that
22:24
Speaker 1: the wife really can't do the work, says Tomer. The
22:27
Speaker 1: flip side of this is that relationships tend to function
22:30
Speaker 1: well when the woman gets sick and requires intensive care
22:32
Speaker 1: from her partner, but in cases where caregiving is not necessitated,
22:36
Speaker 1: men tend to downplay a woman's symptoms and classer is
22:38
Speaker 1: largely self sufficient, expecting her to ask for help rather
22:41
Speaker 1: than proactively giving it. Communication fails even in sickness, but
22:45
Speaker 1: many of the reports are worse. They give examples of
22:48
Speaker 1: women who are expected to continue with daily chores even
22:51
Speaker 1: in pain or immediately after surgery, and if the routines
22:54
Speaker 1: are disrupted for too long, the household falls apart, and
22:58
Speaker 1: this includes sexual activity. Women discussed how they would take
23:01
Speaker 1: painkillers in order to not upset their spouses when it
23:04
Speaker 1: came to sexual expectations.
23:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty explicit. I was like, wow, okay,
23:11
Speaker 2: I don't I hate all of this for you. Of course,
23:13
Speaker 2: we've already talked about how sex and marriages are expected
23:17
Speaker 2: and automated, but whatever. And on that note, we're going
23:21
Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about the statistics when it
23:23
Speaker 2: comes to Christianity and divorce. So some of the reforces
23:27
Speaker 2: are saying Christians are getting to divorce more than any other religion.
23:30
Speaker 2: Is that true? That's the question, and the answer is
23:33
Speaker 2: simple yes, But there are several factors to that statistic.
23:38
Speaker 2: The broad term of Christianity can be misleading. According to
23:41
Speaker 2: the Pew Research Center study, Evangelical Protestants had fourteen percent
23:44
Speaker 2: divorce rate, while historical Black Protestants had a nineteen percent.
23:50
Speaker 2: Mainline Protestants a twelve percent divorce percentage, and they were
23:53
Speaker 2: among the highest of the divorce rates, which in that
23:56
Speaker 2: same study included the Hinduism, Buddhists, and muslim and other religions.
24:00
Speaker 2: But when you put them all together, that's a big
24:02
Speaker 2: chunk of Protestants.
24:03
Speaker 3: Yeah.
24:05
Speaker 1: And another report showed that at least twenty five percent
24:07
Speaker 1: of Christians have gone through divorce, and the numbers are
24:10
Speaker 1: pretty studied today. Here's a quote from an older article
24:13
Speaker 1: on divorce statistics between Christians and quote non believers. According
24:17
Speaker 1: to the survey by the Barner Group, which is an
24:19
Speaker 1: organization that focus on research on the intersection of faith
24:23
Speaker 1: and culture, thirty percent of atheists and agnostics had been
24:27
Speaker 1: married and subsequently divorced. But the Barner Group pointed out
24:30
Speaker 1: that they have lower rates of marriage sixty five percent,
24:32
Speaker 1: and a higher likelihood of cohabitation. Barnara also stated in
24:37
Speaker 1: a two thousand and four survey that one can understand
24:40
Speaker 1: why atheists and agnostics might have a higher rate of divorce,
24:43
Speaker 1: since they are less likely to believe in concepts such
24:45
Speaker 1: as sin, absolute moral truth, and judgment. Yet the survey
24:49
Speaker 1: found that the percentage of atheists and agnostics who have
24:51
Speaker 1: been married and divorce is thirty percent, still less than
24:54
Speaker 1: the numbers for the born again population of thirty three percent.
24:57
Speaker 1: So why is this happening?
24:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we have several reasons according to conservative Christians. Now,
25:04
Speaker 2: everything we're saying is coming from Christian articles. Again, my
25:09
Speaker 2: algorithm is real messed up, real messed up. But I
25:12
Speaker 2: did find it interesting and I can't wait to not
25:14
Speaker 2: be on this algorithm. Women are falling under the trap
25:18
Speaker 2: of feminism. The idea of independence and being able to
25:22
Speaker 2: leave without justification not cool. Also, a big common factor
25:26
Speaker 2: in conservative Christian blogs is the refusal to acknowledge gender
25:30
Speaker 2: as the binary aspect. So they really don't like any
25:33
Speaker 2: of this conversation we're having today when feminism confuses the
25:37
Speaker 2: role of gender again, not us, not any and I
25:40
Speaker 2: are saying this this is again from this article. Then
25:43
Speaker 2: family and marriage roles fall apart. Here's advice from an
25:47
Speaker 2: article from The Federalist. And I really hated that I
25:49
Speaker 2: clicked on this quote. Successful relationships depend on men being
25:54
Speaker 2: men and women being women. Every fiber of a woman's
25:57
Speaker 2: being calls out for a man with whom you can
26:00
Speaker 2: feel physically and emotionally safe, and money is part of
26:03
Speaker 2: that equation. Yes, women now earn their own money. And
26:06
Speaker 2: that is not going to change. But what can change
26:09
Speaker 2: is our attitude and approach to love. What men and
26:12
Speaker 2: women look for in a relationship and what they need
26:14
Speaker 2: from each other within that relationship is not the same.
26:18
Speaker 2: Being malleable with gender role is great, but ignoring biology
26:22
Speaker 2: is not. After all these years, women still want security
26:26
Speaker 2: and men still want to provide that security. The more
26:29
Speaker 2: of a relationship moves away from this reality, the more
26:33
Speaker 2: it will struggle. The more a relationship moves toward it,
26:36
Speaker 2: the more successful it will be, which is again ironic
26:41
Speaker 2: according to the statistics we just read.
26:43
Speaker 3: M also hello from nineteen fifties.
26:48
Speaker 4: And yes, this article is written in twenty two and
26:56
Speaker 4: in other articles giving advice to men about how to
26:58
Speaker 4: restore their marriage or keep their wives, they often tell
27:01
Speaker 4: men to be authoritative but with submissive cards, which is
27:05
Speaker 4: not necessarily wrong.
27:07
Speaker 1: Think of it as disciplining a child and trying not
27:09
Speaker 1: to push the child away, but gently nudging them to
27:11
Speaker 1: the answer you want them to give.
27:14
Speaker 3: Does it seem condescending? Yes, I think.
27:19
Speaker 1: Here's a snippet from one article called an Epidemic of
27:23
Speaker 1: Christian Wives divorcing. Quote for the majority of these men,
27:26
Speaker 1: nothing seems to work. They try being loving and affectionate,
27:29
Speaker 1: just to be rejected. They try devotions and prayer together
27:33
Speaker 1: and she has some excuse why she can't do it.
27:35
Speaker 1: They call her out on her sins and she gets
27:37
Speaker 1: more and more angry and bitter. Some have tried it all,
27:40
Speaker 1: from being submissed themselves for a month to their wives
27:42
Speaker 1: to prove it's not so hard, then to becoming a
27:45
Speaker 1: man of the manosphere and taking leadership whether they have
27:48
Speaker 1: a follower or not. Nothing they try seems to work,
27:52
Speaker 1: and often the wife will confess in her less angry moments,
27:55
Speaker 1: I know I am the problem, but I don't know
27:57
Speaker 1: how to stop it. One would think that just saying
28:00
Speaker 1: that would be a big breakthrough, as the awareness that
28:03
Speaker 1: I am the problem should in a healthy mind begin
28:06
Speaker 1: to seek solutions to unhealthy behaviors, but in many cases,
28:09
Speaker 1: the final results are Christian wives walking away from their
28:12
Speaker 1: marriages and epidemic numbers because they are seeking relief from
28:15
Speaker 1: the pain that they themselves are causing. And it's not
28:20
Speaker 1: over yet. The block keeps going, saying perhaps the root
28:24
Speaker 1: cause is a desire for control, as the feminist lies
28:27
Speaker 1: are now planted firmly in most of the young Christian
28:29
Speaker 1: wives hearts. No longer do they go into a marriage
28:32
Speaker 1: with an attitude that believes love is sacrificial giving of
28:35
Speaker 1: oneself to another, but rather love is now a two
28:38
Speaker 1: way street that says, I cannot love you if I
28:41
Speaker 1: do not feel I am getting from you what I
28:43
Speaker 1: believe I need.
28:46
Speaker 2: I just I want to take a minute of this article.
28:50
Speaker 2: In that same article, they never talk about why the
28:53
Speaker 2: women are leaving. They just say because they refuse to
28:56
Speaker 2: work on the marriage. Right, So what I say is
28:58
Speaker 2: generalized to specific cases. They don't even give examples of
29:02
Speaker 2: why the women are unhappy. This blew my mind. I
29:06
Speaker 2: was like, why, really, women want a two way street?
29:09
Speaker 2: Wait what that's a bad thing instead of sacrificing herself.
29:14
Speaker 2: But you know whatever, whatnot. And by the way, the
29:16
Speaker 2: article was a man who supposedly his wife gets the
29:20
Speaker 2: thumbs up to this article saying yes, exactly exactly right,
29:22
Speaker 2: which is what you're supposed to do with a wife, right.
29:25
Speaker 2: Oh wow, damn feminism, damn feminism. And yet, if you're
29:30
Speaker 2: confused about the evils of feminism, here's a quote from
29:34
Speaker 2: thegirldefined dot com, which think we talked about their site
29:37
Speaker 2: before at its route, feminism is built upon a foundation
29:42
Speaker 2: completely devoid of God. The feminist movement is woven with
29:46
Speaker 2: the same sin Satan committed in the beginning, a rebellious
29:49
Speaker 2: heart that pridefully says, I don't need you God, thanks,
29:52
Speaker 2: but I'll do it things my way. I'm so good
29:55
Speaker 2: at acting. And they continue saying. The average American will
29:58
Speaker 2: agree that most feminists strongly stand for the following a
30:02
Speaker 2: woman's right to abort murder her unborn baby, lesbianism, and
30:06
Speaker 2: the right for women to marry women, complete liberation from
30:10
Speaker 2: sexual boundaries and morals, freedom from traditional gender roles in marriage,
30:15
Speaker 2: rejection of God as the ultimate authority in life. You know,
30:19
Speaker 2: outside of the wording and the fairmong greed, they're not
30:22
Speaker 2: completely wrong. I do feel like a woman should be
30:27
Speaker 2: able to wear marry a woman if they're in love.
30:29
Speaker 2: I do feel like, you know, liberating from sexual boundaries
30:33
Speaker 2: of saying that we have to be here for men's
30:34
Speaker 2: pleasure is not a bad thing. And yeah, traditional gender
30:39
Speaker 2: roles suck and that's why people are getting divorced. But okay, whatever, whatever, Sure, sure,
30:45
Speaker 2: but I will say for that last bit, I know
30:47
Speaker 2: a lot of Christian feminists who would disagree with this completely.
30:50
Speaker 2: But again, there is binary thinking when it comes to
30:54
Speaker 2: this specific line of don't ever leave people divorces.
31:01
Speaker 1: Right and according to another blog titled why feminism wants
31:05
Speaker 1: to dismantle the family quote, like many isms before it, communism, religions, cults,
31:10
Speaker 1: feminism seeks to dismantle the traditional family unit for its
31:13
Speaker 1: own gain.
31:14
Speaker 3: Why to the ism.
31:16
Speaker 1: Old loyalties are like bad habits, interfering with an individual's
31:19
Speaker 1: ability to pledge unwaiving allegiance. Isms want control, but families
31:23
Speaker 1: tend to put family members and their needs before the
31:26
Speaker 1: demands of the ism, reducing the ISM's power and influence
31:29
Speaker 1: and therefore undermining its control. M I love how they
31:38
Speaker 1: put religions in there.
31:39
Speaker 2: I don't like occultism. Does that work? I'm a little
31:45
Speaker 2: too literal, I think. Okay, And if y'all want to
31:49
Speaker 2: read this glorious article yourself, let us know. But the
31:53
Speaker 2: author of this blog cites several anti feminist articles and books,
31:56
Speaker 2: including from the Flip Side of Feminism, where they use
31:59
Speaker 2: this quote from it quote. Feminists realize all too well
32:03
Speaker 2: that they can never achieve a level playing field in
32:05
Speaker 2: the marketplace as long as their male competitors have the
32:08
Speaker 2: advantage of homemaker wives. Women on the left know that
32:12
Speaker 2: in order to get ahead more easily, they must deprive
32:15
Speaker 2: men of their advantage in having stay at home. Wise,
32:18
Speaker 2: the desire to eliminate the full time homemaker has been
32:21
Speaker 2: a feminist's goal all along. The need for a second
32:24
Speaker 2: income was never the goal, which I find hilarious. They
32:29
Speaker 2: give a lot of credit who just want to be
32:35
Speaker 2: able to sustain just in case. Like at the at
32:38
Speaker 2: the beginning, it was more of like, oh, I don't
32:40
Speaker 2: want to be abused and treated as a servant anymore
32:43
Speaker 2: to their under my marriage, and this is the goal
32:46
Speaker 2: to the entire time, Like oh, okay to a playbook
32:51
Speaker 2: here I know.
32:56
Speaker 1: The author from the same blog expands on this idea,
32:59
Speaker 1: saying quote, so feminism has made some progress over the
33:03
Speaker 1: last several decades. If you look at the poorest and
33:05
Speaker 1: least socially mobile areas in America, you will notice one
33:09
Speaker 1: variable consistently lacking fathers, more specifically, mothers who are married
33:14
Speaker 1: to the father of their children. Over the last few decades,
33:17
Speaker 1: the birth rate for unmarried women in the US has
33:19
Speaker 1: risen steadily from eighteen percent in nineteen eighty to forty
33:23
Speaker 1: one percent and twenty twelve. Alarmingly, the majority of moms
33:26
Speaker 1: believe that absent or uninvolved dads can easily be replaced
33:30
Speaker 1: themselves or another man, despite the evidence that stable marriages
33:34
Speaker 1: lead to happy, healthy and motivated kids, which leads to
33:37
Speaker 1: stronger communities, more opportunities, and greater equality.
33:44
Speaker 2: I find it again quite funny that whole last line
33:48
Speaker 2: is obviously an opinion.
33:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, right, also very kind of funnily worded one.
34:00
Speaker 1: But yeah, sure, we've definitely heard that argument before. The
34:04
Speaker 1: blog talks more about the perils of feminism in regards
34:07
Speaker 1: to motherhood, politics, and marriage, but I think we got
34:11
Speaker 1: we got that covered for now. An interesting theory she brings,
34:15
Speaker 1: and so many other articles bring, is the idea that
34:17
Speaker 1: things like divorce and child support are too easy to
34:20
Speaker 1: access and that encourages more women to leave their husbands right.
34:24
Speaker 2: Recently, the topic of no fault divorce has been trending.
34:28
Speaker 2: Right wing conservative Stephen Crowder has been lamenting, and I
34:31
Speaker 2: mean just whining, his current marital status, which is now
34:35
Speaker 2: no longer a thing. He told his audience about his
34:37
Speaker 2: recent divorce, quote, No, this was not my choice, My
34:40
Speaker 2: then wife decided that she didn't want to be married anymore,
34:43
Speaker 2: and in the state of Texas that is completely permitted.
34:46
Speaker 2: This was, by the way, an accusation, not just a statement.
34:49
Speaker 2: Here's what a no fault divorce is. It allows a
34:51
Speaker 2: couple to divorce without blame or fault. It is often
34:55
Speaker 2: the simplest path and divorce available in a state, and
34:58
Speaker 2: it exists in all fifty and DC according to legal
35:01
Speaker 2: zoom dot com. And it explains further. No fault divorce
35:06
Speaker 2: allows one spouse to file for divorce without blaming the
35:08
Speaker 2: other or indicating that it was either spouse's fault. The
35:11
Speaker 2: terminology differs with each state's no fault divorce laws, but
35:14
Speaker 2: to obtain a no fault divorce, the spouse who files
35:18
Speaker 2: simply needs to state that there has been irreconcilable differences
35:22
Speaker 2: or incompatibility. And in some states, living apart for a
35:26
Speaker 2: specific period of time can be the reason for a
35:28
Speaker 2: no fault divorce. And I've heard that before just being
35:30
Speaker 2: separated is enough. And conservatives are not a fan and
35:34
Speaker 2: are wanting to end no fault divorce. And when we
35:37
Speaker 2: say conservatives, I'm talking about political figureheads. In a recent
35:41
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone magazine article, They write, but Republicans across the
35:44
Speaker 2: country are now reconsidering no fault divorce. There isn't a
35:48
Speaker 2: huge mystery behind the campaign, like the crusades against abortion
35:52
Speaker 2: and contraception. Making it more difficult to leave an unhappy
35:55
Speaker 2: marriage is about control. Crowder's home state could be the
35:58
Speaker 2: first to eliminate it if the Texas GOP is his way.
36:01
Speaker 2: Last year, the Republican Party of Texas added language to
36:04
Speaker 2: its platform calling for an end to no fault divorce.
36:08
Speaker 2: In it, they said, we are the legislators to rescind
36:11
Speaker 2: unilateral no fault divorce laws, to support covenant marriage, and
36:15
Speaker 2: to pass legislation extending the period of time in which
36:18
Speaker 2: a divorce may occur to six months after the date
36:21
Speaker 2: of filing for divorce. And this is what we were
36:23
Speaker 2: talking about, how to file for divorces because it does
36:25
Speaker 2: a lot of stakes. Do have this type of stipulation. Yeah,
36:27
Speaker 2: but it's interest in the wording covenant marriage.
36:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, very interesting, and of course other conservative states are
36:36
Speaker 1: following suit. Here's another quote from that article. It's not
36:40
Speaker 1: just Texas. A similar proposals presently being workshopped by the
36:43
Speaker 1: Republican Party of Louisiana. The Nebraska GOP has affirmed its
36:46
Speaker 1: beliefs that no fault divorce should only be accessible to
36:49
Speaker 1: couples without children. At the Republican National Convention in twenty sixteen,
36:54
Speaker 1: the last time the party platform was overhauled, delegates considered
36:57
Speaker 1: adding language declaring quote children are made to be by
37:00
Speaker 1: both natural parents united in marriage. Legal structures such as
37:04
Speaker 1: no fault divorce, which divides families and in powers of state,
37:07
Speaker 1: should be replaced by a fault based divorced It's unclear
37:11
Speaker 1: whether the party's twice divorced nominee for president, Wade in
37:14
Speaker 1: on the debate at that time.
37:16
Speaker 2: Right, I feel like this is going to hurt a
37:17
Speaker 2: lot of politicians, and this is going to hurt a
37:19
Speaker 2: lot of conservatives. Again, as we heard that the rates
37:22
Speaker 2: of divorce and Christianity is higher, it makes you question.
37:25
Speaker 2: And also I feel like less people are gonna get
37:27
Speaker 2: married and have children, which is the opposite of what
37:31
Speaker 2: Christian nationalists want. But you know, whatever, right, right.
37:34
Speaker 1: Right, right, And yes, no surprise. Just as they said
37:36
Speaker 1: in the article, this is a large conversation on control
37:40
Speaker 1: and loss of autonomy. In an older article about no
37:43
Speaker 1: fault divorce, They write that things like no fault divorce
37:45
Speaker 1: is an attacked the sanctity of marriage, even more so
37:48
Speaker 1: than gay marriage, and is another strategy by feminists. Ah
37:54
Speaker 1: here's a couple of quotes from this two thousand and
37:56
Speaker 1: five article. The most forthright marriage advocates recognize that, as
38:00
Speaker 1: Michael mccannis of Marriage Savers' Rights, divorce is far more
38:03
Speaker 1: grievous blow to marriage than today's challenge by gaze. Predictably,
38:08
Speaker 1: this fact has been seized upon by advocates of same
38:10
Speaker 1: sex marriage. The weakening of marriage has been heterosexuals doing,
38:14
Speaker 1: not gays, for it is their infidelity, divorce rates, and
38:17
Speaker 1: single parent families that have wrought social damage, opines the Economist.
38:22
Speaker 1: This distinction ignores the fact that the two problems are
38:24
Speaker 1: closely connected. Gay marriage would probably not be an issue
38:28
Speaker 1: in the first place if marriage had not already been
38:30
Speaker 1: weakened by divorce. Interesting, and according to the same article,
38:36
Speaker 1: divorce is a part of the feminist strategy. They write
38:39
Speaker 1: today feminist operatives employ similar strategies to encourage divorce worldwide,
38:44
Speaker 1: often inserting it unnoticed and unopposed into programs for human
38:48
Speaker 1: rights and unilateral Divorce is now one of the first
38:51
Speaker 1: measures implemented by leftist governments.
38:54
Speaker 2: In two thousand and five, wasn't it Bush?
38:57
Speaker 3: Yeah?
38:58
Speaker 2: I think yeah, anyway, yeah yeah, so again feminist operatives.
39:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's usastly badass.
39:10
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. And if feminism is a strategic
39:17
Speaker 2: plant to destroy families, then obviously Christian conservatives must combat
39:23
Speaker 2: the way they know how through fear and jame. For example,
39:27
Speaker 2: what happens when a woman in unhappy marriage is desperate
39:30
Speaker 2: for the next steps. Well, let's look at some blogs
39:32
Speaker 2: and articles for advice. I'm gonna read this. One blog
39:35
Speaker 2: offers fourteen characteristics of a godly wife that will save
39:38
Speaker 2: your marriage. So we're going to go down this list. Obviously,
39:40
Speaker 2: it's reading the Bible, being persistent in prayer, giving godly
39:45
Speaker 2: wifely love, forgiving, being selfless, I think in a godly manner,
39:51
Speaker 2: use words of affirmation and appreciation and admiration, being a leader,
39:55
Speaker 2: but with the husband, of course, being virtuous by understanding men.
40:00
Speaker 2: And they actually say virtuous by understanding men. And to
40:03
Speaker 2: elaborate on that, they say, quote, we knew as a
40:05
Speaker 2: godly wife, take the time to learn how men understand things.
40:08
Speaker 2: You take a huge step in saving your marriage. You're welcome,
40:14
Speaker 2: respect your husband, having a biblical priorities, and being a
40:18
Speaker 2: virtuous woman in the community. And I don't think I've
40:21
Speaker 2: mentioned the whole Proverbs thirty one woman, which is an
40:24
Speaker 2: old testament. If you go, it used to be a
40:27
Speaker 2: thing where you would find your birth date, go to
40:29
Speaker 2: that verse and that's supposed to describe you. Oh it's terrifying, okay, anyway,
40:37
Speaker 2: but that's a solution. Another offers a simple solution. This
40:42
Speaker 2: article titled how to be Happy in an Unhappy Marriage
40:45
Speaker 2: suggests changing your focus and expectations. And it's not completely wrong,
40:50
Speaker 2: as the article says, marriage isn't a Hollywood or Harlequin
40:53
Speaker 2: romance and it's something that is about compromise at work.
40:57
Speaker 2: But it suggests, like the article above, that marriage is
41:00
Speaker 2: for God and that's the focus. It doesn't really offer
41:04
Speaker 2: much guidance outside of that. It literally had like two
41:06
Speaker 2: paragraphs and yeah, again, it's similar to what we just saw, aka, pray,
41:11
Speaker 2: read the Bible, follow the rules of the Bible, and
41:14
Speaker 2: your marriage will be happy. And as a side note,
41:19
Speaker 2: we also found an interesting conversation about parity culture once
41:23
Speaker 2: again and the effects of marrying young for the sake
41:27
Speaker 2: of sexual purity. Again, I have so many friends and
41:31
Speaker 2: couples who fall under this line of thinking, we want
41:34
Speaker 2: to have sex, but we want to save ourselves our marriage,
41:37
Speaker 2: So let's get married. Nineteen twenty twenty one. And here's
41:40
Speaker 2: a quote from the Cedarville interpreter. I believe Cedarville's a
41:43
Speaker 2: school quote. A practical issue with sexual abstinence until marriage
41:48
Speaker 2: is that Christians are driven to marry young in order
41:51
Speaker 2: to be able to have sex without any guilt. Virginity
41:54
Speaker 2: is held as a pinnacle of purity and pride, which,
41:57
Speaker 2: if nothing else, raises its own unnecessary pest that all
42:00
Speaker 2: too often borders on sexual idolatry. Getting married too young
42:05
Speaker 2: for the wrong reasons, and having unreasonable expectations of how
42:08
Speaker 2: amazing being married will be can be in a catalyst
42:11
Speaker 2: for unhappy marriages and divorce. This rush to get married
42:15
Speaker 2: also leaves fewer opportunities to find major red flags that
42:19
Speaker 2: should suggest ending a relationship before marriage. Yeah, and again,
42:24
Speaker 2: being a part of the Christian culture in college and
42:26
Speaker 2: high school, it really hits the nail on the head.
42:28
Speaker 2: I the literal reason they got married is we love
42:31
Speaker 2: each other enough. We're about to send so let's go
42:34
Speaker 2: ahead and go and we'll grow old together and God
42:37
Speaker 2: will handle everything else. And then they end up in
42:39
Speaker 2: a horrible divorce.
42:41
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I saw it too.
42:44
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, so what happens when the force does happen
43:01
Speaker 2: and what happens to women? Like I mentioned before, a
43:04
Speaker 2: lot of people would flee from the judgment of old
43:06
Speaker 2: fashioned ideas or what I would deemed as old fashioned.
43:10
Speaker 2: But sometimes people would come back with the hope that
43:12
Speaker 2: enough time had passed for people to either forget or
43:14
Speaker 2: at least not care as much. But for the most parts,
43:16
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone ever really felt comfortable coming back
43:19
Speaker 2: to the original churches or felt that they were still
43:22
Speaker 2: a part of that community.
43:24
Speaker 1: Yes, and with all the turn to God articles urging
43:27
Speaker 1: people to yes, just turn to God, pray and work
43:30
Speaker 1: it out, there are those who decided to do what
43:33
Speaker 1: was best for them. But something interesting we found is
43:36
Speaker 1: that they all still felt that the church and church
43:40
Speaker 1: leadership had a lot of say in that decision. In
43:44
Speaker 1: one woman's words, as she had gone to the church
43:46
Speaker 1: to help her volatile marriage, one key to why she
43:49
Speaker 1: left was because her church leadership released her to legally separate.
43:54
Speaker 1: Here's a quote from her blog. I went to church
43:57
Speaker 1: leadership begging for help as my last resort. We were
44:00
Speaker 1: referred to a new couple's counselor and a mentor couple.
44:03
Speaker 1: We walked this road with our elder and campus pastor.
44:07
Speaker 1: We were each given a lengthy list of things to
44:09
Speaker 1: do to move towards reconciliation. My plea for a temporary
44:13
Speaker 1: separation was backed up as they felt things were just
44:16
Speaker 1: too volatile for us to remain under one roof while
44:19
Speaker 1: trying to put things back together. But when assessed at
44:21
Speaker 1: the end, But when assessed at the end of about
44:24
Speaker 1: fifteen months, the unanimous decision was that I had done
44:27
Speaker 1: all I had been asked to do and my husband
44:29
Speaker 1: had not. They told me I was released from pursuing
44:32
Speaker 1: a reconciliation and that the ball was one hundred percent
44:34
Speaker 1: in my husband's court to save our marriage. They then
44:37
Speaker 1: released me to legal separation, which I pursued. I must
44:40
Speaker 1: say here that had my church leadership not released me
44:43
Speaker 1: to legally separate, I have absolutely no idea where I
44:46
Speaker 1: would be today. If I had to guess, though, I
44:48
Speaker 1: believe I'd still be married and miserable, and nowhere near
44:51
Speaker 1: on the road to emotional health. I believe I would
44:54
Speaker 1: not have wanted to go against the wishes and guidance
44:56
Speaker 1: of my church leadership because of my high respect for
44:58
Speaker 1: their wisdom and love.
44:59
Speaker 3: Forget God. I am not staying forever because they did
45:02
Speaker 3: release me, so I moved forward.
45:05
Speaker 4: Yeah.
45:05
Speaker 2: Of course we don't know the specifics of this marriage,
45:08
Speaker 2: but reading some of her experiences, I think it's safe
45:11
Speaker 2: to say if something is too volatile, there's a level
45:14
Speaker 2: of violence that's been present, and to me that's scary,
45:17
Speaker 2: especially with her acknowledgment that if the church had not
45:20
Speaker 2: given her permission, she would have remained in that volatile relationship.
45:24
Speaker 2: So what does that teach us? And in my experience,
45:27
Speaker 2: separating would never be permitted with the old church that
45:29
Speaker 2: I was a part of, so that leaves the victim
45:33
Speaker 2: continuing to be a victim. Yeah, and in my opinion,
45:36
Speaker 2: this article again was a plea for Christians to understand
45:39
Speaker 2: her view and her desperation to leave her union, which
45:43
Speaker 2: is really depressing. I hate that still a romantic notion
45:46
Speaker 2: today because you know, marriage is completely different from what
45:49
Speaker 2: it was a thousand years ago, on a hundred years ago.
45:50
Speaker 2: Apparently still different when it comes to k dramas and
45:53
Speaker 2: its acquisitions can be weaponized. And that's what I feel
45:58
Speaker 2: like this has become. These articles are talking about.
46:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I actually, uh, this is like much less serious.
46:08
Speaker 1: But I want to come back and talk about that
46:09
Speaker 1: because I may or may not have watched the Super
46:12
Speaker 1: Mario Brothers movie lest Wait.
46:16
Speaker 2: Princess Speech.
46:16
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, because he's like essentially trying to trap her
46:20
Speaker 1: to marriage and it's so like sad.
46:25
Speaker 2: Song.
46:27
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, but then he like threatens her friends. Anyway,
46:32
Speaker 1: I want to come back and talk about it. Yes,
46:37
Speaker 1: back to the more serious stuff.
46:38
Speaker 4: Though.
46:39
Speaker 1: In many of these articles, writers and authors played different
46:41
Speaker 1: cases on why divorce is dangerous to the Christian community,
46:45
Speaker 1: but that ostracizing them is just as dangerous and decreasing
46:49
Speaker 1: the numbers in the Christian community. However, studies show that
46:52
Speaker 1: many of the divorce Christians are still active in their
46:54
Speaker 1: faith even after going through such a distressing experience, though
47:00
Speaker 1: that may change as more people are walking away from
47:03
Speaker 1: their religious background. The research might shift. But with the
47:06
Speaker 1: Christian community, there is a battle between those who are
47:09
Speaker 1: blaming leftists for the acceptance of divorce in their people
47:13
Speaker 1: and those who are pleading for the church to handle
47:14
Speaker 1: the issue of divorce with more grace and acceptance.
47:17
Speaker 2: Right because we were coming down to how how do
47:20
Speaker 2: the churches respond? I got more articles on again telling
47:24
Speaker 2: women it's okay, this is how all went through it
47:27
Speaker 2: than anything else, and then talking about how part of
47:31
Speaker 2: the problem and part of the reason divorce is happening.
47:35
Speaker 2: And then they're not coming back to the church's because
47:38
Speaker 2: of the way they keep pushing against people who are
47:41
Speaker 2: getting divorced. So not a lot of resolution, not a
47:44
Speaker 2: lot of solutions. It's quite fascinating. It's just more of
47:48
Speaker 2: a debate about why it's happening and who to blame, right.
47:51
Speaker 1: Right, right, right again. So much we could talk about here,
47:55
Speaker 1: so much to come. Yes, yes, well listeners. If you
48:00
Speaker 1: have any thoughts about this, please please let us know.
48:04
Speaker 1: You can write to us. You can email us at
48:06
Speaker 1: Stephanie mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find
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48:15
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48:19
Speaker 1: our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our
48:22
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