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Divine Intimacy Radio - Spiritual Warfare and the Family Questions · The Quest Atlanta Catholic Radio

• 0:01
  Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio, a co-production of EWTN Radio and SpiritualDirection.com, where we provide you with a spiritual haven of rest and explore the riches of the wisdom of the saints and the path to union with God.
• 0:20
  This is Dan and Stephanie Burke.
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  Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio, your radio haven of rest.
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  Your hermitage of the heart.
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  Your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon the wisdom of the saints to help us navigate the tumult of this very challenging life.
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  And today we're continuing...
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  our answering questions from the spiritual warfare and the family summit.
• 0:44
  Okay.
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  And, uh, we just got so many, we know, and, and we'll, I think we're adding these to the vault.
• 0:51
  We adding these to the vault producer.
• 0:52
  Yeah.
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  Are you going to tell our listeners what the vault is?
• 0:55
  The vault is a way that you can get access to, um, whatever we offered at the summit spiritual direction.com.
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  Okay.
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  uh, forward slash vault, V U L A. V A U L T. V A U L T. 2026.
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  There you go.
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  Spiritualdirection.com forward slash vault 2026.
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  And there's all kinds of amazing content in there.
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  So there's a, there's a couple of questions that are kind of in the same,
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  vain, but they have enough nuance.
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  We'll answer them separately.
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  This one's a very sad question.
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  And my heart breaks for the person who asked it and the person who's on the other side of this, but how do we stay in a marriage when a spouse is disabled and,
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  And that disability is wrecking the family with choices and decisions that are related to financial, sexual, and physical matters.
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  So you have someone who's, you know, when somebody experiences a disability, and I have myself,
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  where I was out for months and months, you know, with illness and struggle with that, it can affect the way you think, the way you pray, you know.
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  The way you perceive yourself.
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  The way you understand yourself.
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  And so I just want to speak to that and say this person who's doing all the damage and who's suffering needs mercy too, you know.
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  So they're doing some bad things in response to what they're struggling with.
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  But, you know, it's a tough situation.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  You know, I think there's a bit of a false narrative here that happens, whether it's this kind of cross or any other cross for that matter, is that the enemy is such an opportunist.
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  Yeah.
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  He's such an opportunist in that he will...
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  He will latch on to whatever situation of suffering that's going on.
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  He will multiply the desolation within it.
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  His voice becomes extraordinarily loud and God's voice and presence perceivably in your perception become very faint and distant.
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  And so there's this,
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  situation that's terribly destructive and painful.
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  And the enemy can cause us to say, all is hopeless.
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  I can't take it anymore.
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  This is too hard.
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  I need to get out.
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  I need to X, Y, Z, right?
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  Now we're not talking about physical abuse where somebody's in danger.
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  we're not talking about substance abuse that puts others in danger.
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  Yeah, so we're not saying, we're not judging whether that's occurring in this, but you're saying what your answer doesn't.
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  Apply to that.
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  We're taking those things off the table right now because this person used the word disability, which means there's something in it that is beyond that person's control.
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  Right.
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  Um, now there are just so many nuanced pieces here.
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  So the spouse that has the disability, the enemy goes after them and multiplies and takes them down through the, cause he latches onto that.
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  He multiplies that situation for the spouse.
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  That's not who is the caretaker or is having to withstand the suffering as well.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  you know, there's a different kind of desolation and work of the enemy against them.
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  And the enemy seeks to destroy.
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  He wants to separate, divide, isolate.
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  Everything's impossible.
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  You know, false, what is it called?
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  False obstacles.
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  Yeah, false obstacles and universal negatives.
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  You know, so in all of this,
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  Like what, what is a couple to do?
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  Because there's not just one person in this narrative.
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  There's two.
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  There's the person that is suffering the disability because it is a suffering.
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  And there's the person, the caretaker who is suffering in it and having to be the strong one and help and do all those things.
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  And really at the core of it is prayer, fasting, sacrifice, rosary.
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  From the non-disability person, they need to be super strong spiritually.
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  Yes.
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  And they need to not give up hope, not go into despair.
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  Yeah.
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  Because, you know, I think there's this idea that, well, if I just get out and I, you know,
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  everything's going to be okay.
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  Right.
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  And it's, it's just not true.
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  It doesn't because it sets off an avalanche of, of the spirit of divorce and consequences that we never see coming until we're in it.
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  And Dan and I, yeah, yeah.
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  Dan and I can really speak to that.
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  That's why it is like, like we will talk about separation, a medicinal separation to work through things, to get
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  you know, to shore things up.
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  Maybe that's necessary in this situation.
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  I don't know, but we're not ones to ever advocate for divorce because we understand what happens through divorce.
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  It's devastating to everyone.
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  And in this case, I do want to go to the medicinal.
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  I'm glad you went there because it says financial, sexual, physical.
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  It sounds like, you know,
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  you always go to the green, yellow, red.
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  So yellow is that realm you started with where there's difficulties in marriage and you gotta strengthen yourself spiritually.
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  Red is when there's abuse.
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  And this sounds that level when you start, when you use the word sexual and physical and financial, it sounds like the person with the disability is just kind of spiraling out of control, maybe in a major depression.
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  It is appropriate sometimes, as you noted, and the church allows for medicinal separation, meaning it's a separation with the intent of getting back together.
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  It's a separation so that you can heal emotionally, get some distance from the constant struggle.
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  get your head about you, right?
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  Because when you're struggling with this, and I know this personally, when you're struggling with abuse, you, you get incredibly disoriented.
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  You know, you can get incredibly disoriented where you don't have the ability to think straight.
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  And so you separate out now, now, and then you get into counseling.
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  It's got to include what, what systems need to, to be brought in to help, what needs to be addressed, what kind of proper boundaries need to be set up.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  Because if there's a sexual abuse towards the spouse, that's never acceptable.
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  If there's sexual abuse as in, you know, sexual behaviors.
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  Well, I mean, children, that's a full stop.
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  The spouse or the children, that's not to be allowed.
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  That would be a means for separation, immediate separation to get some proper boundaries and help.
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  But counseling, medical doctors, all of those things.
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  It is okay to say, I'm going to drown under this situation right now.
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  I need to step out and get a breath of air in a medicinal separation.
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  And we need to approach this a different way, get proper support systems and all of that.
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  So I'm going to close this question out with some really clear prescriptions.
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  One, I really think you need a Catholic community around you.
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  So you've got to find...
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  Good Catholic people who are, and I can tell you to find good for you, is they're going to encourage you to stay in the relationship if it's viable.
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  And they're going to encourage you to fight for all that is good and unifying and healing.
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  And find hope in the darkness.
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  The other thing is you've got to be practicing mental prayer every day.
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  You've got to be praying the Archangel Michael prayer every day.
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  praying your rosary every day.
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  If you can do three rosaries a day, you need to be praying as much as possible.
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  Yeah.
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  Fasting.
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  Yeah.
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  All that you can.
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  But I, but I'm not, I'm not talking about, I'm talking about base level, you know,
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  foundational, it's good to pray three rosaries a day, but some people can barely get one in.
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  So foundational level stuff, but do that and pray and fight and then get a good counselor, a good Catholic counselor, catholictherapist.com.
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  It's a good source.
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  If you don't have a spiritual director, that can be even more powerful than a good counselor.
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  You can find that at seek direction dot APP.
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  Those, those are some good resources for you.
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  Get some community.
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  You know, you can join us for formation the second and fourth Saturdays of the month, which would help you a lot as well.
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  So this to get out of a sense of isolation, because that's what the enemy really wants to do.
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  Stephanie's referencing good community.
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  It's apostoliva.org, A-P-O-S-T-O-L-I-V-I-A-E.org.
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  And we do free formation for hundreds of folks, second and fourth Saturdays.
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  And it's a worldwide community as well that you'd be entering into.
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  And everything on the site's free.
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  And it has courses on mental prayer, on prayer,
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  on persevering in the midst of the storm.
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  It has, you know, all kinds of good stuff there for you.
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  So, uh, rest assured of our prayers.
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  Yeah.
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  We'll definitely be praying for you.
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  It's, it's, it's a very painful thing.
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  We're going to go to break.
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  And then when we come back, we're going to answer the question.
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  Um, what if you don't, if you're not in love with your spouse anymore, big, big, that's another very, very painful question.
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  Before we go to break though, I want to remind you of this book, which I think is absolutely, it's a book I wish I had when we had, when our teens were teens.
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  Yeah.
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  It's Discernment of Spirits for Beginners.
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  It was written with Mary Ruth Hackett, who is as a educational psychology degree with an emphasis in parenting and identity development.
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  And I did it with her because she has kids, teens and 20s.
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  She has both when we're writing the book and she has the psychological background.
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  And it's really, it's incredibly powerful to help your kids get their heads on right or your young adults.
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  Check that out at spiritualdirection.com.
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  Hit the shop button, but we're going to go to break now.
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  When we get back, we'll answer more of your questions.
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  The beautiful fact that no suffering is wasted, that all suffering has a purpose, and to wrestle with the idea, which is that everything that happens in our lives is either willed or permitted by God.
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  Okay, God, why would you permit these things?
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  I know that you're a good father and you're a loving father, so there's something there.
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  So I have to bridge this gap between your permission of my suffering to your love for me as a father.
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  And uniformity with God's will, the book by St. Alphonsus Liguori, bridges that gap.
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  And he explains as only he can, because he's such a hard hitter, the reality that these are all moments of growth, of virtue, of, hey, your legs are weak.
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  You're like a newborn deer.
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  You can't stand on your own.
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  We need to get you to stand on your own.
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  You know, those sorts of things.
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  Even desolation, you know, the day-to-day kind of, the ebbs and flows of the spiritual life.
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  Those things are all permitted.
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  for a greater good, whatever that might be.
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  Check out the brand new updated version of Uniformity with God's Will titled Finding Peace in the Storm with Commentary by Dan Burke.
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  Welcome back to Divine Intimacy Radio.
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  Dan and Stephanie Burke.
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  Stephanie's back from her pilgrimage.
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  I'm grateful to have her back.
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  And we are continuing to answer questions from our Spiritual Warfare in the Family Conference.
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  And you can still have access to that conference and many of the talks and even some of these follow-up answers that we're giving.
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  by going to spiritualdirection.com forward slash Volt 2026, V-A-U-L-T 2026.
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  So this question is an incredibly painful question, but I want to restate it and say one quick thing, and then I'll give it to you, Steph.
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  And that is, it says, what if you feel like you are not in love with your spouse anymore?
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  And my answer in the simplest, most concise way that I can is,
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  and if you're the one who asked it, please listen carefully and then we'll unpack it for you.
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  Is real love begins when feelings end.
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  That's great.
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  Real love begins when feelings end.
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  You might even say real love begins when feelings begin to wane.
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  Right.
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  I'm grateful.
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  I mean, not to flaunt it in the face of somebody who's struggling, that I have not experienced that with you in our relationship.
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  but um that i love you more than when i first met you now there isn't the elation you know that happens when you're first courting oh that's so sad you know it's wow too there's not the elation and all the you know the raging desire and stuff that happens when we're because we're designed by god for those things to bring us together
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  And to get us past all the mess that we are when we come together.
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  That's true.
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  That's the design for that.
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  Yeah.
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  Otherwise, you can't make it through if you don't have that.
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  But real love begins when feelings begin to wane or feelings end.
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  What are your thoughts?
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  Yeah, this is an interesting question because I've lived through this both ways.
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  It's a fascinating question.
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  I'm going to go at this from the spiritual realm, spiritual realm.
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  Because we're faith and reason.
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  Yeah.
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  And as I always say, the enemy is an opportunist, right?
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  Life gets hard.
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  You know, we've, we've courted or dated somebody and we think we found our knight in shining armor and he did everything right.
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  He said all the right things.
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  He always smelled good.
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  He always brought us flowers and
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  He texted and called us all the time.
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  He was, he hung on our every word and watched our every movement and just thought we were the bee's knees.
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  And then life happens and diapers happen and difficulties, dirty dishes, financial struggles, emotions, hormones, anxiety.
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  mother-in-laws, father-in-laws, business troubles, you know, you name it, disease, you know, all kinds of things.
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  And then we're going, we wake up one day and because we are desolate,
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  we hear this voice that says, I don't love him anymore.
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  You don't love him anymore.
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  And I'm just going to take this from the female perspective.
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  Okay.
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  You can, you can speak to the other if you like.
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  I think it's a, it's a bigger problem for women because we tend to be motivated by feelings more than men.
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  men can compartmentalize, you know, as long as their bedroom is kind of peaceful, they can, you know, just kind of put up with a lot that they just want peace in their bedroom.
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  That's kind of where you get the husband.
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  If you start to, if things start to devolve in the bedroom, um, is my personal opinion.
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  So, like, what do you do when you feel that?
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  Well, like with any discernment of spirits, we have to be aware, understand and take action.
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  The enemy wants to destroy your marriage.
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  He wants to destroy you.
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  He wants to destroy your marriage.
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  He wants to destroy your kids, wreck your kids.
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  He wants to go after your kids.
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  He wants to go after your sexual union because that's the glue.
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  when you're in a state of grace that holds you together and helps you to withstand some of the other things.
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  And so if he can whisper into your head when you're tired, worn out, weary, just exhausted emotionally, physically, spiritually, hormonally, blah, blah, blah, then he could whisper into your head when you look at him, you know,
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  You don't love him anymore.
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  Yeah.
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  You should just give up.
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  Yeah.
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  The other thing the enemy does, and I wonder if you experience, is they'll also begin to constantly talk to you about their flaws.
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  Oh, that's part of it.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  He's not meeting your needs.
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  He doesn't listen to you.
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  He doesn't love you.
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  He doesn't care about you.
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  He doesn't see you.
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  And then as we spew those things out towards our spouse, then we create a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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  Yeah.
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  We create a cycle of sin and destruction.
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  It is terrible when we cannot keep our mouth closed.
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  We have no discernment.
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  So every thought that comes in our head comes out of our mouth towards our husband.
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  And then he starts to go do the very things that we're accusing him of doing.
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  And we're surprised, right?
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  Because we're not building him up.
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  We're not respecting him.
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  We're not loving him.
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  We're not serving him.
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  we're not doing what we are called to do in Ephesians five, which is respect him and love him.
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  Now, are we totally do that when he's great?
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  No.
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  So back to this, you know, voice, I've heard that voice.
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  I've heard it in my past life.
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  And unfortunately I've heard it in this life with you.
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  And it was it was short lived, but it was a trial that the Lord showed me.
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  And when I when I noted it, I was like, Whoa, what is that?
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  Because that's not me.
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  And I, I, I've smelled that demon before.
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  I know what that is to come to it before.
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  I have succumbed to it in my past, in my life before I ever met you.
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  So I recognized it.
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  I understood what was happening and I took action.
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  And I said, in the name of Jesus, get off me, get out of my head.
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  And what did I do?
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  I did the opposite.
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  I went towards my husband.
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  I went towards you.
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  I went to love and serve you.
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  I went and got in your space.
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  I moved over.
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  in the bed, you know, whatever I needed to do, but I went towards you.
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  Which is the opposite direction of what the enemy is.
• 21:06
  Absolutely.
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  Which is one of the one of the discernment of spirit.
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  It is absolutely key.
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  And guess what?
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  It was exceedingly short lived.
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  It was like gone.
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  Yeah.
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  Because we know if we resist the devil quickly, he will flee.
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  And then we draw near to the Lord and he will draw near to us.
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  Yeah.
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  And I remember praying in that moment, get off me in the name of Jesus.
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  Get off me.
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  I move towards you.
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  And I'm like, Jesus, help me.
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  Blessed Mother, help me.
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  And I'm praying and I'm doing the St. Michael prayer because I knew I was under spiritual attack.
• 21:35
  Yeah.
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  And because that is what that is.
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  Please understand that is what that is.
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  And the goal is to destroy your marriage and then go after your kids and destroy your kids.
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  So the key is resist it, renounce it.
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  Don't listen to it.
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  Go towards your husband.
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  Start working on your on your marriage.
• 21:54
  Read this.
• 21:55
  Read the Sermon of Spirits for beginners.
• 21:57
  Read the Sermon of Spirits.
• 21:58
  Watch the series.
• 22:00
  Come to a marriage retreat.
• 22:01
  Yeah.
• 22:02
  You know, we offer these marriage retreats.
• 22:04
  We have seven on the books for 2027, which is like unheard of.
• 22:09
  And the demand is like through the roof.
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  She's trying to wear me out.
• 22:14
  It's the Lord.
• 22:15
  So come, come, come, you know, come and learn what's going on in your marriage.
• 22:22
  And, you know, so if I could speak to something too, when you feel like you don't love your spouse anymore, it's probably means there's a lot of pain that's gone through the relationship, that sort of thing.
• 22:33
  The one thing you got to understand is you have the spouse you have because you need the spouse you have for your salvation.
• 22:39
  Yeah.
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  Which means that,
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  The Lord is giving you opportunity in your relationship to become who you're called to be.
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  And if you give up because you because you struggling with your attraction or whatever, or your feelings, you're I promise you, you're going to replay it.
• 22:59
  Yeah.
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  And the devil will take you down by the way.
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  Yeah.
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  And he will, if you turn and you do not fight for your marriage, the enemy will come after you.
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  He'll devour you.
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  And he will try to, he'll go after your kids.
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  And the reason is because you were, you're giving in,
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  You're saying yes to him instead of to God, which is an invitation.
• 23:22
  It's like saying to the devil, yeah, come on in, take me, take my kids.
• 23:29
  You asked, how is this with a man?
• 23:32
  For me, it's a whole different scenario in the sense that I...
• 23:38
  Theologically, when I became a Christian, I understood love is not a feeling.
• 23:43
  It does have feelings associated with it, but it's not essentially.
• 23:48
  The essence of love is not in how I feel.
• 23:53
  The essence of love is self-giving, self-denial for the sake of self-giving, for the purpose of serving the other.
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  And in that you can see love is an action.
• 24:06
  It's not a feeling.
• 24:07
  It's a commitment of living and giving yourself away like Jesus did for us.
• 24:13
  And so I never have been, I've become more sensitive to this person who suffers with this issue because our culture just tells nonstop lies about, you know, you are what you feel.
• 24:27
  I feel like a woman, so let's go get surgery to fix that, you know.
• 24:32
  Or I feel like a man, let's go get surgery to fix that rather than saying, well, what is objective reality?
• 24:37
  You know, you have man parts, so you're a man.
• 24:42
  But in terms of marriage and love, love is self-giving.
• 24:48
  And the last thing I'll say about this, which is pretty important, as you are with men, so you are with God.
• 24:54
  Right.
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  As you are with men, so you are with God.
• 24:58
  I want you to remember that.
• 25:01
  Can we say it a different way?
• 25:02
  As you are with your spouse, so you are with God.
• 25:06
  And really let that sink in.
• 25:08
  How you behave with your spouse, how you are towards him or her, how you love and serve them, how you relate to them is how you relate to God.
• 25:18
  Right.
• 25:18
  And if you don't believe that, just go meditate on the epistles of John in the New Testament and do it for about a month and you'll come away.
• 25:27
  Well, not very long.
• 25:28
  You're going to come away slack jawed, so to speak, and just going, oh, wow, I can't live this way.
• 25:35
  And hopefully it'll bring you to a new understanding of who you are and who the Lord is.
• 25:40
  But what that means is that we can think, oh, I'm fine with the Lord.
• 25:46
  I go to Mass.
• 25:47
  I do these religious things.
• 25:49
  But then the way that we comport ourselves with other people, we don't make that as part of the equation of I'm okay.
• 25:56
  Right.
• 25:57
  But Scripture does.
• 25:58
  The Word of God does.
• 25:59
  The words of God do.
• 26:01
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:02
  And it's really when you have a lack of love, you have to understand that's a deficiency in your spiritual life between you and God that then is playing out in your marriage.
• 26:13
  You get your spiritual life right, you'll begin to see some healing in marriage, which is what we talk about today.
• 26:20
  at our marriage retreats.
• 26:21
  If you want to learn more about marriage retreats, go out to spiritualdirection.com forward slash events or events page.
• 26:30
  If you went out right as this is published, you may not see events, but we do have seven or so coming divine intimacy and marriage retreats coming next year, 2027.
• 26:41
  And so they will, they will be listed sometime soon.
• 26:45
  They fill up baths.
• 26:46
  We have had over 50 on the wait list from our current retreat that's coming up here sometime soon.
• 26:52
  So with that.
• 26:54
  Until next time, may the God of peace make you perfect in holiness.
• 27:01
  May he preserve you whole and entire spirit, soul and body, irreproachable at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
• 27:08
  Amen.
• 27:11
  Learn more about the interior life.
• 27:13
  Visit spiritualdirection.com.
• 27:16
  Divine Intimacy Radio is a co-production of EWTN Radio and spiritualdirection.com and heard worldwide on the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network.