Latest / CRYPTO 101 / Ep. 747 The Future of Trading Is AI Agents & Crypto with Public CEO Leif Abraham

Transcript

Ep. 747 The Future of Trading Is AI Agents & Crypto with Public CEO Leif Abraham · CRYPTO 101

0:09
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the crypto 101 podcast.
0:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Bryce, as always joined by my good buddy, Mr. Brendan Viman, Brendan, how are you doing in the son of Florida?
0:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing good!
0:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy to be here, I'm enduring the heat, and I'm really excited for this one.
0:28
[SPEAKER_02]: This is definitely one of those podcasts that interest me a lot.
0:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I know both of us have been seeing this gas, as I'll have you introduce in just a second all over the place, and it really peaked their interest, so I'm stoked.
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, this has been awesome.
0:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually a brokerage account holder at public.com.
0:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got the co-CEO and co-founder, life Abraham joining us to talk about the future of not only public.com and everything they're building on the brokerage side, but really, particularly the agentic side of trading and what that means using AI to enhance your workflows and enhance your research.
1:06
[SPEAKER_01]: enhance your trade execution, do it all, life Abraham, thank you for joining us, and how are you doing?
1:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Quick, let's ask for having me.
1:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Do any fantastic.
1:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful.
1:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's kick things off here.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell us about the genesis of public.com and kind of what went into it with your co-founder and your co-CEO.
1:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you start this?
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the mission?
1:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, so first off, public is really a platform for people that kind of want to really build and compound their wealth of a long period of time.
1:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you kind of saw in our space, especially in the US, this kind of like first wave of fintech, it was really heavily forward and speculation.
1:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And we kind of thought like there's really a place to essentially build like in like the next generation swap essentially.
1:57
[SPEAKER_00]: something that you can trust with your life-saving that you can build, sophisticated strategies in, and we can really, kind of, compound your wealth.
2:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But with great design, with, you know, the new technologies around hands also have been very, very deep obviously in how AI can impact people's portfolios and people's investing, experience this and such.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was really kind of like the general genesis there.
2:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it's it's incredible.
2:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, for for folks who don't have a public dot com account, or maybe they have, like you said, a Schwab account, or a Robin Hood account, or whatever, what would you say is the key differentiator between the competitors that you guys kind of face off with.
2:37
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a little bit like if you become most serious about your investing and your on Robin heads, you will get a you will open up a public account.
2:45
[SPEAKER_00]: more as the classes, more things to be done deeper, you know, fundamental analysis, you know, just something that's a little bit more for grown-ups, like a photo wording.
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're on Schwab and you click around, everything looks like a tax form.
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You might have to talk about that in terms of as the classes.
3:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But once you realize that you're logging into a time machine every day that brings you back to the 90s, you recognize that maybe it's time to upgrade to something like public.
3:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That will be my high level pitch.
3:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And real quick, is this for just mobile users?
3:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Or is this have a web interface as well?
3:24
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we have a web interface to we have, of course.
3:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that that's something that a lot of our listeners really do enjoy.
3:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And they say, you know, some of them like to do it from their phones, but there's a lot of people that are traditional and they're like, hey, you know, we want that kind of web interface.
3:37
[SPEAKER_02]: That's good, you know.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we still see even with.
3:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So to say, younger generations, we even see still see that things like average deposit sizes and so on are much larger on the web.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people still appreciate very much the sense of like, when I sit down on my computer and open up our browser and whatnot, like I hear to do serious work.
4:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that's what the web app still lends itself to.
4:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And we see it as number as well.
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got a question just on that, you know, you say, like, oh, you know, we see the users who are young, all that kind.
4:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just curious, like,
4:16
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your user data tell us about the state of the economy in a sense?
4:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, you have a very unique sort of private data set that you guys could you know, peer into and then we get these, you know, public CPI reports, we get the jobs data, you know, inflation's volatile, jobs are kind of softening.
4:36
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you guys see?
4:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just curious.
4:38
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you pay attention to any indicators that you could kind of clue us in on?
4:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let me think about this.
4:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Unlike the small level, you could see that volatility always drives actions.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when the markets are down, people buy the dip, things like that, that's when we see great deposit days.
4:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And so on, I think, generally speaking, there's still a lot of money on the sidelines and people are just deploying as they go.
5:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And in our case, our users also just deploy, basically, with every paycheck that
5:09
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the US, you can kind of divide it a little bit by income of folks.
5:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at the top 25% in the US, essentially, people that make more than $100 a year, and then the sub 75% make less than that.
5:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the sub 75%.
5:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Most people live paycheck to paycheck or credit card to credit cards, right?
5:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they're not really many assets to deploy.
5:36
[SPEAKER_00]: They might trade some crypto in and out, you know, or they, you know, do some more speculative, you know, higher risk, higher reward kind of, kind of trades with production markets and, you know, obstetrating and so on because, you know, they're not necessarily assets that compounds.
5:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's much more about the sense of, like, can't, you know,
5:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I win big here somewhere?
5:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the risk of those people taking over.
5:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of what we're seeing.
5:59
[SPEAKER_00]: But our focus and who we're designing for is really for the top quarter.
6:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And so those are people in a modern hum of grand.
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: They have the ability to compound to the markets because they have money left over every month with a paycheck.
6:14
[SPEAKER_00]: They inherit money, et cetera.
6:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at the grand Roth transfer, I'm sure you've all heard about, right?
6:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a topic.
6:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but like you know it's like it was a number like 84% of the great wealth transfer of the assets of the like you know trillions of adults being passed down Will be passed down to the top 25% of digital natives
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And so in our space, that top quartile is literally where the money is set in terms of assets that could move onto a platform like ours.
6:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's really like what just like the design why is it even when we build features like who's the customer we have in mind?
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really the person that sits in the top quartile.
6:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, that lens itself also to like a little bit more sophisticated feature set.
6:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, these people care deeply about their taxes, but I've done a lot of work and how you be able to imagine tax lots on the app, etc., etc., and so all these details are suddenly become very important if you're like designing for the top quarter.
7:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, fascinating.
7:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the top quartile or the top part of the K right everybody's talking about the K shaped economy 100% and I think that is just we're seeing how that becomes more true, you know, Yeah, that's you know that but you're really having these like two worlds in the US really well.
7:28
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the top quartile can compound, can compound the markets, the markets are doing well, comparatively speaking, right?
7:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they will always get some some some great leverage and upside out of that.
7:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, versus if you, if all the money you're making, they're needed to spend and you have inflation on top of that, it obviously gets harder for for for the people who are part of the kind of that sub 75 friends.
7:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
7:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that at least I personally believe that with this great wealth transfer coming from the boomers and the older generation to this maybe younger generation, I think that those people are more willing to invest that money than maybe the prior generation when they were our age.
8:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that you've seen a huge adoption or huge increase in adoption of younger people wanting to invest and being incentivized to invest and it feels as if there's been a huge push and kind of shift in that narrative which I think is a good thing and so targeting that and maybe even just trying to understand which assets could be most affected is something that everyone's trying to get ahead of the curve on, right?
8:32
[SPEAKER_02]: How is this going to affect everyone and what's going to be kind of invested in?
8:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And over here, you know, obviously, we're going to be a little bit biased.
8:40
[SPEAKER_02]: But this is a crypto podcast, and we believe that one of those areas that money can kind of go into is crypto.
8:48
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of younger investors are interested or invested in crypto.
8:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And now, whether that's 1% or 100%, it can vary a lot there.
8:56
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, what do you kind of think about where crypto fits into all of this?
9:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, first 100% but we've really seen with us like kind of like digital natives right people that grew up with the internet around is that they've also gained financial literacy, way sooner in their lives.
9:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is because social media, access to information, you can have global niche communities with millions of people that always make it
9:25
[SPEAKER_00]: There's communities around dividend investing, you know, about YouTube investing, you talk about dividend investing that I have, like, you know, millions of subscribers and stuff.
9:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
9:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, how much can you talk about dividend investing, but apparently, apparently it's a big thing.
9:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you really have the thing where a whole generation just like gain financial literacy earlier that up.
9:44
[SPEAKER_02]: and I think crypto was a big part of that because it's the first asset class that was born retail.
9:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It was not born, you know, the people that the first people that got rich on crypto were not some hedge fund.
9:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, you know, regular, regular people.
9:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, and also it was born fractional.
9:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the first asset class that was born fractional.
10:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, you could get started with 20 bucks if you wanted to.
10:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, right?
10:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And so,
10:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that combination was a very powerful thing for crypto, and I think it added to this notion that people had exposure to assets and to investing principles early on in the lives because maybe they started actually with crypto, and that kind of false them to then, you know, guys, you go out, be more mindful of financial literacy and actually seeking it out more, you know, reading into it more, et cetera.
10:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you want to do describing, I think, Crypto, I think had a very big impact there as well, like on this generation and the whole breadth of fact that these people invest early on their lives and I just much more active in the markets and just more called self-directed first.
10:47
[SPEAKER_00]: There are confident abilities as investors, so therefore they want to have an active hand to building it, but just give it up to financial development.
10:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And then with that, we've always looked at Crypto as an asset class first, that's where we started off.
11:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and with that in mind, like that generation of the digital natives, like, you know, they kind of grow up with it.
11:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's always been this mindset of like part of their approach for you was allocated to crypto.
11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, maybe very heavily see that.
11:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I really launched one thing, um, which is, uh, crypto IRAs.
11:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So essentially your ability to hold crypto within their retirement account, which then creates kind of two things, right, because these are like tax deferred accounts, right?
11:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're not being taxed until you actually want to either withdraw the money after or as you retire and so on.
11:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you can compound these dollars much more even if you're active, right?
11:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So which means number one, you can hold them to retirement and just kind of grow it there.
11:50
[SPEAKER_00]: immediately are being taxed on it, which means you have the ability if you're a more active trader there or two then also kind of, you know, if you're successful in that of course, that too, kind of kind of compound that those crypto gains in your portfolio of student and stuff.
12:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think those are the types of tools now that we're also seeing where it's gone out of the pure,
12:10
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, mean coin trading, you know, mobile app or thing that just like spikes and dies within like 30 minutes and then no one's just like calling any more likes like that, you know, to, you know, to something where there's a segment that really thinks about it as,
12:27
[SPEAKER_00]: He is an allocation of my life savings, of a portfolio that I allocate to crypto.
12:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And now my next thing, if I do that, is to think about it as a serious investor and things like what kind of tax advantage, moves can I make, you know, and so on.
12:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, like those interest buckets, where things like crypto IRS fall into and like those tools like a crypto IRA is really something that we've seen all the interest, you know, rise a lot in.
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's fascinating.
12:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really good product.
12:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't used it yet, but it's definitely something that I'm super interested in.
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, tell us a lot of us are crypto traders, and maybe we'll use a platform like Coinbase to do a lot of our custody and trading.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But tell us, if we signup for a public.com account, can we store our Bitcoin?
13:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Can we store
13:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You know several different assets can we stake is there any lending work or lending facilities that that we could kind of contribute to to earn a yield And I know you guys acquired zero hash some time ago To help with your crypto infrastructure, but but tell us the extent of the crypto infrastructure and Especially in light of the cold card hack recently a lot of people are taking You know self custody and saying oh, maybe this isn't for me.
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I should
13:49
[SPEAKER_01]: trust a broker to count or something like that.
13:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and we're doing the choirs around I should just partner with them.
13:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but fantastic company and you know they they have a bunch of big players which would like to eat trade and stuff also with I would have clubbed offerings and so like their their fantastic team and product, but long story short and so on public you
14:16
[SPEAKER_00]: you betrayed them, you can hold them, you can transfer them in and out, obviously, and you have access to them either through the mobile app, to the web platform, or even through API, you know, we launch a trading API as well.
14:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So like on public, you can just open up an account, go to settings, grab your API keys, go from there with MCP support, obviously, you know, in case you want to connect us to your cloud or, you know, you know, a trajectory bit to your web,
14:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, but then obviously also we have agents built within the public platform, she'll talk more a little bit, then helps you kind of set up like more automated strategies on your crypto training.
14:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And that has really been our focus.
14:59
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no staking yet, or come eventually and suggest a free attitude to like earn some yield there and so on.
15:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But right now it's really like as seen as like an asset class as part of the
15:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, that makes a ton of sense and you know in the you know the what's it called the the scope of you know different tools and products that you have I think maybe the most interesting one that you just alluded to is this agentic trading.
15:29
[SPEAKER_01]: platform.
15:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's a wait list, luckily I made it through the wait list, um, but tell us, you know, for people who haven't used it, or maybe even some people who like, yeah, I've heard a chat GBTI've used it a little here and there, how does this work?
15:42
[SPEAKER_01]: How can I trust it?
15:44
[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of decisions is it making on its own relative to, you know, what permission does it need?
15:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Just give us the 101.
15:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
15:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So first by the time this podcast guys out goes out, maybe maybe the waitress is gone.
15:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, we'll that is happening very, very soon.
16:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, little stuff for you in here.
16:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but, uh, long so short.
16:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at AI agents, first off,
16:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, there is essentially two ways of how people think about, right?
16:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So one is there's just like NCP concept.
16:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you've seen a bunch of trading apps launched with their NCPs, which is just like a wrapper around their API essentially.
16:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's essentially like a little server that has instructions that like your clots or chatchipiti or, you know, whatever can essentially access to kind of know how to deal with that API.
16:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, you know, you can connect your account
16:38
[SPEAKER_00]: say a clon to try to set up some strategies and whatnot.
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, there's always some risk there because you're connected to a third party.
16:46
[SPEAKER_00]: If anthropic doesn't update to their model tomorrow, you don't know how it's going to behave tomorrow and so on and so.
16:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I put that still.
16:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting.
16:54
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do it with public as well with the input with our MCP.
16:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But I put it into like the tinkering cap, you know.
17:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So to your point, you know, you will likely set up a separate account for it, you, you know, put a little of play money into it to kind of play around and, you know, get some, you know, learn some things and so on.
17:12
[SPEAKER_00]: That I would put into that cap, at least a word is right now.
17:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Then what we've done is on the other end of the spectrum, which is we have built AI agents directly into the public platform.
17:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And that number one has a security aspect to it, because it's in your authenticated brokerage account, but also security aspect format, because the way we've designed it is to kind of separate the reasoning of the AI with from the execution.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you use the AI to kind of like spar and get to an outcome and like the, you know, determine a certain strategy that you want.
17:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Once the agent is created, it essentially creates a deterministic,
17:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, flow, that it can't deviate from.
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, that means that can't be hallucinations, it will do exactly what you're told to do, and therefore you have some reliability and trust to these systems.
18:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And we think that it's very important because you need to be able to trust it in order to use it in your real account with real money and your real assets.
18:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, it should really be a thing that only does what you told it to do.
18:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And you also, when you create an agent on public, you will see the exact workflow.
18:25
[SPEAKER_00]: You approve it yourself.
18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know exactly what it will do and how it acts before you implement the agent.
18:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And so those are things we find very, very, very important, right?
18:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And now they're asked how we built in as we did kind of like radical transparency.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And so as an agent, you know, kind of does its actions or does not do actions, you have a full history of every single little thing the agent has done.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: or also has not done.
18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for example, check something, the criteria wasn't hit, you will see that you will know that.
18:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And we think that is another piece that is very, very, very, very important to basically give a lot of trust to these systems, right?
19:06
[SPEAKER_00]: That you know exactly what it's doing, what it's not doing.
19:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore you can use it with real money in your real account, with your real assets, because all these safeguards are kind of dull then.
19:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, I put these two things out there as like to kind of separate different kind of ways on how you can interact with agents out there.
19:29
[SPEAKER_02]: How have agents been used so far?
19:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what areas do you see them being used the most frequently?
19:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it normal just trading like the S&P 500 and NASDAQ?
19:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it trading more traditional futures contracts?
19:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it crypto trading?
19:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it somewhere else?
19:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so obviously trading strategies is where everyone's mind-school first, and in that you're basically seeing things like, you know, for example, something like, hey, if a certain stock, you know, trades below, it's 200-day moving average, you know, buy X amount of it in my account.
20:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and don't do it often, then why.
20:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We are seeing things like risk management of options contracts is something that's very popular.
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you might have a bunch of alternate contracts rolling, you want to make sure they never, they never exercise, you know?
20:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you have a certain criteria that just, and it just looks at all your contracts, and if it hits certain criteria, you know, you kind of, you know, sell out of them automatically, for example, you know?
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We see things like
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: you know automatic buying the dip of certain assets and so on.
20:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Another thing I find very interesting is basically a broad put for your base textiles harvesting.
20:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, those types of promising as a strategy is something that also like a wealth advice on my do for you, you know, and basically looking and most people think about it is something of like, oh, the years ending, you know, before, you know, before I wrap up the year, like, let me, you know, let me see where I'm in the red and like sell those positions and put them on there three months from now, like, you know, if I want to rebuy into them or do something else without money, you know, like things like that.
21:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, Texas harvesting is something you should be doing throughout the entire year, in theory, if you really want to maximize that strategy, right?
21:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is something that you can set up, Asians, obviously, very well for.
21:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of a little bit of your portfolio.
21:23
[SPEAKER_00]: See, you look for opportunities and kind of how to text on harvest, throughout the entire year, throughout all asset classes, throughout the entire portfolio, you know.
21:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So those things are very interesting and then we also see like asked to look at started that they basically set up agents But then instead of making a trade immediately they just set it up as alert You know, and they're kind of got comfortable To the beginning a little bit to you know, Bryce, you're kind of coming to the beginning of like hey You know, but as we get started, you know, you're you kind of want to build your trust with these systems and
21:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of letting it trade, people set it up and just like lead to alerts first, for example.
21:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a lot of stuff like that, you know, that's where we've seen agents do, or that we've seen people use agents for us, of all.
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just version one right now.
22:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I look in the bottom and it says version one, Paul, no point, something or other.
22:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what's version two going to look like?
22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what's the future of this product?
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got to tell you, I don't think there's a lot of science right now behind those versioning numbers.
22:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really just like whenever we update something, you know, it's usually members goes up and to your point, it's like in like two-fold increments and stuff, but by generally speaking, you know, behind the scenes, there's updates every single day of the stuff.
22:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't always know what people will do and use them for and what all the use cases are and so you kind of need to have these rollouts again like we've launched this four months ago now and like agents itself right lots of four months ago now and
23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've ruled it out with its rateless concept, also because, you know, obviously we want to have a very clear eye on, you know, what experience people have, but also why the use cases, so we can design around them, right?
23:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, if you ask the agent to do something very specific, very niche, you know, we can actually also design elements, you know, within the system that just, you know, make it easier or like more intuitive, you know, to like several
23:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and you don't know until people use them, you know, what all the possibilities are.
23:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it's, it's such a, you know, a new world that we're entering into because it's not really about, um, you know, people's technical skills anymore that are really where a lot of the value is, right?
23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm sure you know how to code or your, you know, your team.
23:56
[SPEAKER_01]: is all coding and all that kind of stuff and that used to be a really coveted skill.
23:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, man, if I only knew how to code, then I'd be able to make all this money.
24:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, anybody could go to Claude or to public and just express what their thoughts.
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So the real value now is actually just in the thought in the abstraction layer.
24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, can you think of,
24:14
[SPEAKER_01]: in human, you know, English language or whatever language you want, you know, what to do and, you know, how to, you know, prompt, right.
24:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's just, it's cool that you guys are catering to that in a sense, you know, 100% and there is also, you know, we are, we're talking about that was a thing of that trading went from clicking buttons to expressing intent.
24:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you know, and therefore it is one abstraction layer higher, you know, and we're often you might have a rough idea and you will express that to the AI and it will help you refine it because there might be follow-up questions that it needs to turn it into a strategy that you've never thought about.
24:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because you maybe haven't had that, you know, level of sophistication before and so on.
25:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But then also you learn while doing because of that exchange, it is happening, right?
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's 100%.
25:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think one other aspect is when we kind of think about user interfaces and AI right now, a lot of these interfaces, they just start with this blank prompt field.
25:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is actually a quite nerdy place to start because you must have some, you know, sophistication and understanding yourself in order to even come up with what to type into this blank field of opportunity, you know, and so one thing where we're, you know, we're we're rolling out now to essentially a marketplace of agents.
25:39
[SPEAKER_00]: where you create an image, and you can share it, you can publish it, other people can take it and customize it and make it their own.
25:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And so to create more inspiration there as well, of all these possibilities.
25:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, and kind of go away from this like, everyone needs to already have a nettle of sophistication themselves in order to get started, because there's this blank field that you have to fill with, like, you know, human language, prompt coding for like a better-worlding run.
26:07
[SPEAKER_01]: totally and it could be daunting like I've experienced that it's like wow the world is my oyster here you know typing into the public agent but what do I even want to trade you know what's going to out perform the SMP like I can't just tell you know think hard out perform the SMP go like it needs needs you know some some some prompting and stuff but is that because like the running like like the running joke with agents has always been this like a bunch of people tweeted you know make no mistakes
26:32
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, I got what's going on, so I'm like, make me a lot of money, make no mistakes.
26:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, that is not how things work.
26:39
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and the way we often define it is like, in this very first phase, it is really much more designed to turn your ideas into action.
26:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It is not necessarily yet designed to turn, you know, to give you ideas.
26:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And that will evolve over time, of course, so if I say you can give it a rough idea and don't finesse it to basically get to a fully formed agent, you know, I would say like that roughness of idea will obviously, you know, it will get to a point where you can give it rough on rough on rough ideas in order to get to a fully formed agent.
27:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you will get more and more to this can where it will help you create an idea or it will refine your idea.
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it will blur this line of how much is it giving you an idea versus helping you turn your idea into an action, the kind of smarter and more amenities this percolumns wind.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It was funny, this reminds me the other day there was a big report, you know, like these models, the foundational models, they're getting so smart.
27:45
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like solving all of these open math problems, right?
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And open, you know, questions that, you know, have been left unanswered for 50 or 100 years.
27:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there was this one, like engineer from anthropic.
27:58
[SPEAKER_01]: and there's this open hypothesis called the rhymein' or the rhymein' hypothesis.
28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And the clod opus, or I think was probably the mythos class or something.
28:10
[SPEAKER_01]: All it was doing was the engineer, the person, was just saying, think harder.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: believe in yourself.
28:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You got this.
28:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, because it kept coming back with, oh, I can't figure that I can't do this.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just kept prompting it with encouragement.
28:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And eventually, it figured it out.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this went viral on Twitter or actually, because all the engineer was doing was just telling the AI agent, just keep trying, you know, think of a different angle, think out of the box.
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And it freaking did it.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's just a whole different world that
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's just fun to think about.
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But to kind of put a bow on the AI agent product, I'm just curious if there will be any extension of the AI agent brain that you guys are building.
29:00
[SPEAKER_01]: to eventually have it potentially even move off the broker to count.
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: What I mean by that is what's so cool about crypto is it's a bearer asset, it's digital.
29:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And you guys could have a crypto wallet functionality that could go and traverse defy or more foe and sky, and all these different things.
29:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And it could do it on behalf of some registered user.
29:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I could basically type into public, maybe, I don't know.
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, hey, go, go look for the best yields on defy and, you know, use the public wallet and it would work.
29:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm just curious if you would ever have that as an idea.
29:40
[SPEAKER_00]: No, 100%.
29:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way we think about it is that this is sense of how much
29:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the decision making or free decision making, do you give the agent?
29:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it starts off with very little.
30:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to be after too many stickers possible to also build a trust.
30:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Then the second level becomes a thing where specific actions
30:09
[SPEAKER_00]: with in an agent can have more freedom and own decision-making.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And to give you an example, you know, back to like agent going out into the internet, you know, you might be, hey, buy a company when it's rumored to be added to the S&P.
30:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you're going to be like, so who makes a decision of what does rumored me, you know, and you could, and you could be, okay, are you not going back and forth with the agent or like defining that specific criteria of like, which new sources do trust et cetera, another, you know, or do you leave some, you know, open decision making to the agent in that moment, which is obviously also a risk piece that's best read, you know, and the agent can go out and kind of like to trim it themselves to be like, you know what?
30:56
[SPEAKER_00]: This person tweeted something, you know, and because of my assessment of XYZ, this is a source that, you know, I put a certain probability rating on also on and therefore I take it as a rumor that, you know, we say is a yes in this in this workflow and therefore I've purchased this company now.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, and I think that applies to essentially any action on the internet that can be up for interpretation, you know, and so, or any action that can be taken on the internet generally speaking, you know, and, and I think that is definitely something that's,
31:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think things are moving towards, but the nuances here really matter, right?
31:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So right now, within public, for example, every data source that the agent has access to is something that is like directly plugged in, it's something that, you know,
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Lock my phone, it's like we might spend a lot of money on to get the specific feed from directly from that stack or something, you know, and so on and so these are like verified trusted sources, you know, that the agent can make actions on and the further you open that, you know, the further, you know, obviously also just like the quality of data source that the agent interprets.
32:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I might go down, you know, and might become a little bit like upfront interpretation of how but do you believe this is a, you know, proper, trustable source of data or not, you know, and that is really like those nuances as I think where this like open field thinking, open field actually taken for an agent of the internet, you know, becomes important and how, how do you as a user deal with, you know, how much freedom you give to the agent in that moment?
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, on that topic, it kind of makes me think of this isn't really a question but just a comment but like chain link right like chain link has these verified data sets that people can you know jack into and say okay I want this verified data source because I don't want any.
33:00
[SPEAKER_01]: tampering to be in my agent's, you know, source and stuff.
33:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think in the world, I mean, I actually don't have any exposure to chain links, so this isn't me like showing my bags or anything, but I think it really does have a good place in the world as AI agents take off.
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to need, you know, decentralized data sets that are verified because, you know, most people won't be able to afford a direct link to the NASDAQ.
33:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And so getting something that's
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe just similar, kind of as good, but it's verified, it's centralized, it's crowdsourced or whatever.
33:33
[SPEAKER_01]: There can be interesting.
33:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And the thing that's also, you know, on public, you currently have this like, you can use the agent to research or you can use an agent to just like build, essentially like an execution workflow where it does actions on your behalf, right?
33:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And these two ones are gonna merge, you know, quite soon.
33:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, as they merge, there's also this aspect of,
33:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what is the data sets, not just sources, data sets that give you some edge, right?
34:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, well, right now, in some edge fun, some of the builds, you know, some forecasting models and whatnot, and like, because they are proprietary to them and they're thinking, you know, that is the edge that they're creating.
34:13
[SPEAKER_00]: That is obviously something that a theory anyone can do if they have the knowledge of the tool to do so.
34:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And AI is obviously one way to give people the knowledge of the tool to do that.
34:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you can very much see how you will essentially create something and come to training.
34:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I might be, you know, you might have a certain way to analyze, you know, what are important wallets and, you know, trying to figure out what are they buying when.
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you feel like, oh, there's a pattern that you have found to emerge, you know, when these specific wallets buy a coin, then, you know, that thing tends to go up at this moment
34:49
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, AI to essentially do that research and then have that dean analysis that is like a living analysis like an agent that will update automatically and then you can take actions on the back of that with an agent.
35:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, those are the things I've become I think super exciting in that moment because, you know, you can use AI not just to here's my virtual workflow, but also to create unique data sets that are proprietary to yourself and your
35:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, one of the other things that really stood out to us was some of the pages that you all have, or information that you all have released here, and I think it happened back in April, but it's over like 60 different private companies that you all were trying to keep, including things like,
35:37
[SPEAKER_02]: open AI and thenthropic and stripe and what this does is it gives retail investors this kind of institutional grade data before the company's even IPO.
35:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about that because that has been
35:53
[SPEAKER_02]: a big push lately is to either get more information, open up these private companies, and potentially even let people invest in them.
36:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And you've seen kind of, I would say the groundwork for that be really late on crypto with tokenization first, but again, now you guys are kind of bringing it to the next level and saying, not only can you maybe get access to it, you're getting depending on where you go, and I'd be curious to hear if you can do that on public, but also get this institutional grade data as well.
36:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly, I think first off, obviously we're living in a world where companies now go public so much later in the life because the private markets have become so mature that there's so much money in the private markets and they actually in the late stages are fairly
36:43
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, these companies just have the luxury that they don't have to go public, right?
36:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of day when like, you know, Google and so on, when public, whenever, you know, if you use old and, you know, at like $2 million of my nation's and stuff, they did that because they had to.
36:59
[SPEAKER_00]: because they were not enough big funds that they could raise money from.
37:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So like for them to raise money, they had to go to the public markets.
37:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they had to IPO.
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That is just not the case anymore.
37:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And so therefore you have companies go public way later in the life when they're way larger and so on.
37:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now you're getting to a point.
37:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We have trillion dollar companies, you know, of like, it's probably like a residential station.
37:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, or a space that just has been,
37:23
[SPEAKER_00]: that's in go public at a point where at the point where they go public, they're top 10 largest company in the world, you know, like that is insane, like that is just such a different world.
37:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And so first off, that just means that, you know, that, you know, yes, there is delay between when retail and regular people have access to them.
37:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, their own kind of need to, to, you know, have this kind of brought the quality and such.
37:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's bad for the health of the financial markets, you know, like
38:02
[SPEAKER_00]: US now has won sub 4,000 public companies that used to be close to double that, you know, 20 years ago or so.
38:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that is just to be healthy because it also creates, you know, concentration in the markets, like we're all investing in the same companies at the end of the day, and so on.
38:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And so even just for the health of the US financial markets, I think it's not a really good thing.
38:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, for like, you know, regular retail investors that means number one,
38:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think I need to be much more, you know, call it innovation for like a further wording around how these people can get access to this company soon up.
38:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That is, I think it's not just a regulatory and it's not just a technological question of like tokenization stuff, like that's just a wrapper at the end of the day, you know, like the instrument, I think it's very much a regulatory question.
38:51
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, accreditation laws, basically that who's allowed to invest in them, financial disclosures, you know, like what do you need, what can you, what, what access of information do you have on this company so you can do a real analysis on the value of what you're buying, you know, and so on and so there's I think a lot of work that needs to get done to really, you know, enable that.
39:14
[SPEAKER_00]: But then on the other end, on the company side, it also,
39:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I think nowadays is that the journey to become a public company, even though the public, either coming across public later, the journey might start soon.
39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: where it's not just going to be like, well, it was filed for, you know, I was one with ACC now and, you know, then we're going to do a rot show of their public and that's it.
39:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But now it's like you have something like stripe that for years now has put out an annual report and annual statement where they disclose some numbers, where they talk about the business, you know, where they do a big presentation that might talk about the business, you know, and so on.
39:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, they're already kind of
39:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, developing the muscle of what it means to report to the public, to, you know, how what it means to be a public company, et cetera.
40:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think when that journey kind of starts sooner, then it also starts sooner in terms of building a book of retail investors.
40:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And so while we think about it, is that like, hey, we have this private company on the platform.
40:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And number one, if there is opportunities to give people access to an investment into this part of the company's, then, you know, maybe we can facilitate that on one end, depending on the instrumenters and, you know, regulatory requirements and so on, but then on the other and also on the company side, we can build already a following off return investors for these companies.
40:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So when they eventually actually go public.
40:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they've essentially done a, you know, communication and pre-roach, so kind of, you know, relationship building with potentially hundreds of thousands of written investors, before they actually found their as one, before they actually go public, and so on, and we find that very interesting as well.
40:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and so it kind of serves both sides of the, of that, like, like, off a market, and then we're out.
41:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, just kind of a comment, but like I imagine being a CEO of a public company is quite stressful and there's so many so much red tape and being the CEO of a private company is probably a lot less stressful and more enjoyable and you don't have all sorts of different things that a public, you know, company might have to, you know, be beholden to and so on.
41:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's probably another reason I'm like, I don't have to do it.
41:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's
41:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We're proud of it, we're proud of it.
41:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You're private.
41:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But like this like a sense of like I also company this planet still for now.
41:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was talking about a series of like if you are, if you're a public company CEO, you have to be the type of person that gets energy out of essentially like pitching your company and marketing your company all the time.
41:54
[SPEAKER_00]: You know like you're becoming a hype man,
41:58
[SPEAKER_00]: if you're a public company CEO, and so if you're someone who's like dreading to grow an earnings call and you just want to get it over with, you know, you're like, don't go public.
42:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not even going to be a public company CEO, but if you're someone who's like,
42:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to pitch their shit out of this thing.
42:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot wait for this earnings call to happen.
42:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to show these people, you know, like that needs to be the mantra, right?
42:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And you kind of see that with like with companies that have CEOs who embrace it, who love to do that, we'll get energy out of it.
42:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You also see how their public market comes from like an investor relationship perspective change.
42:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, suddenly the call becomes a video call.
42:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, suddenly the whole setup is closer to like a, you know, wrap up after a sports game like the interview with the coach and stuff, you know, suddenly, you know, just doing it once a quarter, but you're going to host events where you're going to talk about, you know, your numbers and whatnot, maybe even on a month basis, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
43:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And so,
43:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I do think it's very like depends on the type of person that you are as a CEO and I think there's actually a bunch of people that, uh, will get joy out of it and actually maybe even command that even higher multiple because of it because they have to skill set to tell a really good story.
43:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
43:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'd be a pretty good public's public CEO.
43:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't you think, Brennan?
43:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so, too.
43:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I can see Bryce on those earnings calls.
43:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Crushed in an fired up net.
43:31
[SPEAKER_01]: People call me the ultimate crypto hype man, so I definitely, I would just need a great company.
43:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyhow, Brennan and great company.
43:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I know.
43:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to go public any time soon.
43:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
43:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, life, one of the other big, big talking points here outside of these has been the prediction markets.
43:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, people in traditional finance are talking about them.
43:56
[SPEAKER_02]: People in crypto are talking about them.
43:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It has been the talk of the talent for what feels like it leads to year now.
44:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's something that you've had a decent amount to to say on the topic, right?
44:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you have people that look at it through very different lenses.
44:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You have the
44:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Dare I say the degenerate gambling side of things who people love to get into it and get involved, but then you have people that are hedging with prediction markets and they're using it for other purposes as well.
44:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You've kind of drawn a clear line between prediction markets as portfolio tools versus sports betting.
44:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you talk to us a little bit more about that and how these two worlds kind of collide?
44:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I say, production markets, aka events contracts is a fairly old instrument, like whether a contract will be introduced in the 90s and stuff for commodities traders, so we're going to hatch their positions and so on.
44:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So that instrument has been around for a while, but retail access to the instrument has basically been not existing.
44:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And you had obviously a bunch of regulatory changes in terms of what this instrument can be applied to.
44:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, I would say that the use case of an events contract has been stretched.
45:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Hence,
45:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, suddenly it's being used for sports bedding, it's being used for, you know, if we're now going to cry or not, you know, it's so, um, it has been stretched, right?
45:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, excited to your point.
45:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what that means for the instrument itself, I think it could be gets a bad rap because I just get seen as this.
45:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a new H casino thing, you know, that it's just being used for just, you know, the generative gamblers and it's kind of it.
45:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And even though on the other side, it actually is a real financial instrument that also has and can have a lot of value, especially for some of sophisticated investors, right?
45:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And then obviously the other
45:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And so how we think about it is, you know, and you know, we're going into collection markets as soon as well.
45:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But we think about it as like, it's essentially, it is a way for you to trade the events that move the buckets.
46:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And so things that are related to your portfolio.
46:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And that might be because you were able to dissect an earnings call always make this example of like if you're like a big Tesla fan, you know, and you have a really good grip on their energy business and you've built your own forecasting model and like you, you know what not, and you just understand that business really well, you would have placed a trade on that and you don't want to be back down by, you know, then not hitting them or why not us.
46:31
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, for example.
46:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And so those are things that I find very, you know, important and meaningful because, you know, people have certain skills and have certain understandings of certain things and companies become this like big, behind the things that has 50 different business lines, you know.
46:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And so be able to accept company performance into like smaller pieces I think as for example, a very great use case, you know.
46:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the other thing is also, obviously, you know, we are very deep in the eye agents.
46:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, they can, like, that data can be used for other things as well.
47:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, you know, one, you know, example that we talk about internally, if it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, for example, thing that like, hey, you might look at the market of the fed rate.
47:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And you'll be okay.
47:17
[SPEAKER_00]: If, um,
47:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the probability in the contract of the Fed to race rates, you know, next quarter goes up over 70% sell my treasuries.
47:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, which is a bonds trade like one of the most boring things you can't imagine, you know, and so on and so suddenly you can have a sting that right now is kind of being viewed as this like very degenerate gambler kind of thing, you know, but it can actually have very meaningful value for someone who's a bond straight up.
47:51
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, and stuff.
47:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and those are the things that we are personally excited about.
47:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's again, it's, it's, we're principally think about it as it's the events that have an impact on your portfolio, aka the events that move the markets.
48:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and the reality is, for now, we're going to cry or not, it's not going to move the markets.
48:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that could bring more liquidity and excitement to some of those areas that I would say the average young investor doesn't get a lot of interest out of, right?
48:20
[SPEAKER_02]: If you think about probably the person my age in their 20s and 30s or maybe even younger that invests.
48:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know the last time I've heard any of them talk about wanting to do treasuries or bonds or any of that.
48:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And even caring other than how it affects the risk on markets.
48:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe that does add a little bit more relatability.
48:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it incentivizes them a bit more to actually care and get involved with those.
48:45
[SPEAKER_02]: If it does, it increases liquidity, it increases interest.
48:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also think that the better people understand those kind of tools like treasuries and
48:56
[SPEAKER_02]: more that the average investor understands those, the better it is for everyone, because there's general market knowledge that comes from that.
49:03
[SPEAKER_00]: No, 100% 100% and I would also always go get like, I think the opportunity in Prishan Mark, the AK events contracts is more in really the market stuff, because if you look at the volume is coming from like actual institutional investing and so on like it's, you know,
49:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, like, you know, 100 times more than what, you know, the sports spending market and the U.S. is, you know, for retail and the average trade size is going to be tremendously more, right?
49:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Like right now, if you see that it's a little, you're numbers that are popping up on a chart on currency or something.
49:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like five bucks, 20 bucks, 50 bucks, 15 bucks, you know.
49:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you can add two zeros to that.
49:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you go into just like regional investing, you can not be at full zero so that if you go on to institutional, right?
49:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's just like, there is, I think the opportunity to ask is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, you know, just way larger and, um, and that's the stuff that we excited about.
50:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
50:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, look, life, why we still have you for just a handful of minutes more.
50:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I do have a little lightning round question, question answer.
50:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to just run by you to make sure we've really sufficiently rocked everything at public.
50:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But the little lightning round sound cool, four, four, five questions, I'm going to like that.
50:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
50:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.
50:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
50:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we got to get out of here at the top of the hour.
50:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So real quick is, um,
50:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what's the number one coolest feature that we haven't discussed yet about public?
50:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, she's across number one.
50:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, income.
50:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Your ability to see all the money you make from yield and bonds payments and high-alt cash and dividends and then projective out into the future.
50:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Love it.
50:51
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great one.
50:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Is public as safe as a bank?
50:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say we're safer than a bank.
50:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you've ever worked in financial services and tech, you will be mind boggled by how the industry is built on top of FTP service with CSV files that is, Eftling ridiculous.
51:11
[SPEAKER_00]: We have one engineer on the team who is a very, very, very senior great engineer.
51:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And he always has this like, doomsday story that he tells ways like,
51:19
[SPEAKER_00]: just based off how old all these companies that build them to take technology stacks and build them co-bolt and whatnot, like, one day, one of these banks and one of these progages will go down and they will not go back out.
51:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, scary.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love that.
51:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The other one was, um, when marketplace, no, when it, when is the, the marketplace
51:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, within weeks.
51:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
51:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it within weeks.
51:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, another question.
51:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you have a background in gaming as well.
52:02
[SPEAKER_01]: From from your from your maybe your past life, uh, but why did crypto gaming never take off and will it?
52:11
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, that is like a long time ago.
52:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a pretty teenage, I like all of my kids room somewhere.
52:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually still think it will, and I think it's just the question of which company is going to enter it.
52:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you look at both and, you know, the way they just said you have a market base of skins and stuff like that in Counter Strike, I think they've kind of nailed it, obviously, already.
52:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's just that to create a real marketplace there, you need also these concepts like decay, right?
52:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you buy a skin on Counter Strike, like, and you use it, the value will go down the more you use it until it hits zero, and therefore creates, you know, therefore like it's like burning tokens, right?
52:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, and sort of the concepts like that, maybe it haven't haven't been used to figure it out, but I think, you know, having like a cross game currency, I think someone will end up doing it.
53:04
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... bit coin or a theorem if you can only choose one bit coin bit coin no yeah not financial advice but also not a single hesitation in that uh...
53:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And then last question, I know we've kind of already talked about, so many things that are headed in the future for public.
53:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But just the roadmap, any other thing that we haven't really discussed, obviously marketplace, improving agentic trading, more crypto capabilities, what's left?
53:38
[SPEAKER_01]: What gets you up in the day that you're like, I'm in, we got to go finish this.
53:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to go start this, what's on the road?
53:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I stay wherever roadmap that is literally
53:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that is the beauty in this business that we're not lacking ideas, we're just lacking time and you know resources to get them done as fast as humanly possible.
54:02
[SPEAKER_01]: beautiful.
54:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Life Abraham, co-CEO, co-founder of public.com.
54:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for joining us.
54:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody check the show notes.
54:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have some links in there for you guys, but it's easy.
54:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to public.com, sign up for an account.
54:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Let them know you came from crypto 101 podcast.
54:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully we'll see you guys on the platform.
54:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And life, please do come back.
54:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't make yourself a stranger.
54:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We'd love to have you back.
54:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's in a quarter or in a year, tell us some more updates.
54:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to just keep tabs on everything you got going on.
54:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome, thanks, guys.
54:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome, thank you so much.
54:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Take care, everybody.