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Mistakes Happen with Dr. Courtney Campbell · My Veterinary Life

0:09
Speaker 1: Welcome to this week's episode of My Veterinary Life Podcast.
0:12
Speaker 1: I'm your host, doctor Annie Schavant, and my pronouns are
0:15
Speaker 1: she Her, and we are kicking off a brand new
0:18
Speaker 1: series called Mistakes Happen, where we're talking with a few
0:21
Speaker 1: of our brave colleagues about the parts of their career
0:23
Speaker 1: stories no one likes to talk about. It is my
0:26
Speaker 1: hope that this series empowers you to share more openly
0:29
Speaker 1: about your own mistakes, both for your benefit and for
0:31
Speaker 1: the benefit of those around you, and give you some
0:34
Speaker 1: ideas on how to approach future mistakes more positively based
0:37
Speaker 1: on the stories you hear. Our guest today is doctor
0:40
Speaker 1: Courtney Campbell, a board certified small animal surgeon, practice owner, author,
0:45
Speaker 1: and media correspondent. We are truly honored to have doctor
0:48
Speaker 1: Campbell join us for this series. But before we jump in,
0:51
Speaker 1: we do want to remind everyone that the My Veterinary
0:53
Speaker 1: Life Podcast is brought to you by care Credit. For
0:56
Speaker 1: more than thirty two years, care Credit has partnered with
0:59
Speaker 1: the veterinary profession helping pets get the care they need
1:02
Speaker 1: and every moment that matters flexible financing with the care
1:06
Speaker 1: Credit Health and Pet Care Credit card lets Pet owners
1:09
Speaker 1: spread out the cost and budget friendly monthly payments the
1:12
Speaker 1: first time and for a lifetime. Being financially prepared for
1:16
Speaker 1: whatever life brings gives everyone peace of mind. And with that,
1:19
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, doctor Campbell.
1:22
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
1:23
Speaker 3: This is a conversation I've been looking forward to all
1:26
Speaker 3: week long.
1:27
Speaker 1: Amazing and likewise, I can't wait to jump into things.
1:31
Speaker 1: But before we do, why don't we start by telling
1:34
Speaker 1: our listeners just a little bit about yourself? So what
1:37
Speaker 1: do your current roles look like? And how did you
1:39
Speaker 1: get here?
1:40
Speaker 3: Tell me about yourself has to be one of the
1:43
Speaker 3: hardest questions in human existence, right, It's like where do
1:46
Speaker 3: you start? But yeah, like you said, my name is
1:48
Speaker 3: Corny Campbell and board certified veterinary surgeon out here in
1:51
Speaker 3: Long Beach, California. And I'm also a media correspondent and
1:56
Speaker 3: a host and author and just a general all around
2:00
Speaker 3: sort of nerd that loves veteran medicine and anything to
2:04
Speaker 3: do with animals. But I think what's plastic about conversations
2:08
Speaker 3: like what we're about to have is that a lot
2:11
Speaker 3: of people kind of focus on the glory and they
2:13
Speaker 3: forget the story. They sort of focus on the fact
2:16
Speaker 3: that you know, you seem like a finished product and
2:20
Speaker 3: that you didn't have a journey and and trajectory to
2:23
Speaker 3: get you here. But certainly before I came out to
2:25
Speaker 3: Long Beach, California, I started, you know, born and raised
2:29
Speaker 3: in Connecticut, raised in the woods essentially because that essentially
2:32
Speaker 3: was my upbringing in New England, and then University of
2:35
Speaker 3: Delaware and then Tuskegee University for veterinary school, and did
2:39
Speaker 3: three internships a rotating in, two surgical internships, one year
2:43
Speaker 3: of general practice in there. But then after those three internships,
2:48
Speaker 3: I didn't get a residency. Now, my first mistake, and
2:51
Speaker 3: I put that in air quotes, is that I thought
2:53
Speaker 3: I wanted to be a radiologist, right, And no, that
2:56
Speaker 3: wasn't an honest mistake, but definitely something that you know,
3:01
Speaker 3: I could have picked a residency that I thought was
3:03
Speaker 3: more aligned with my personality and my interests a little
3:06
Speaker 3: bit better the first time.
3:07
Speaker 2: And once I discovered surgery, I was like off to
3:10
Speaker 2: the races.
3:10
Speaker 3: And I did a residency in Los Angeles and practiced
3:16
Speaker 3: in southern California as a surgeon for a few years
3:18
Speaker 3: before coming down to Long Beach to open up the
3:22
Speaker 3: very first specialty center here in the city of Long Beach,
3:25
Speaker 3: which is Stitch's Veterinary Surgery. So it's been a long
3:28
Speaker 3: winding road, but I think ultimately, you know, after the end,
3:32
Speaker 3: at the end, or in the middle of this road.
3:34
Speaker 3: If I find myself on a podcast called Mistakes Happen,
3:38
Speaker 3: the reality is they absolutely.
3:40
Speaker 2: Do, and they've certainly happened to me.
3:43
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much for giving us a little
3:45
Speaker 1: bit of that background story. And I think your point
3:48
Speaker 1: about assuming everyone is a finished product is so true.
3:52
Speaker 1: It's just our human nature to not think about that
3:55
Speaker 1: story before you get there. And the point that sometimes
3:59
Speaker 1: a no is a yes to something that you haven't
4:01
Speaker 1: discovered yet. You thought you wanted to be a radiologist,
4:03
Speaker 1: and that was right for you at that time, but
4:06
Speaker 1: it turns out that you were able to pursue a
4:08
Speaker 1: different path that was an even better fit. And so
4:11
Speaker 1: I think what you make of adversity is going to
4:14
Speaker 1: be a theme of this series. And I cannot wait
4:17
Speaker 1: to dive into a more specific mistake example with you today.
4:22
Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and get right into it. Can
4:25
Speaker 1: you tell us about a time that you made a mistake.
4:29
Speaker 3: This was this mistake that still lives with me to
4:31
Speaker 3: this day was right after my residency, which a residency
4:35
Speaker 3: sort of provides a protective capsule, so to speak, and
4:39
Speaker 3: gives you that safety nap. But this was right outside
4:41
Speaker 3: of my residency, and there was a dog who came
4:44
Speaker 3: in with an intestinal foreign body. And I remember moving
4:48
Speaker 3: into surgery, and I had a few foreign body surgeries
4:52
Speaker 3: or abdomino exploratories under my belt, but.
4:55
Speaker 2: This was felt particularly heavy.
4:59
Speaker 3: It felt like the pressure was on because essentially I
5:02
Speaker 3: was sort of out of that proverbial safety net that
5:05
Speaker 3: a residency can provide. And this dog, large golden retriever,
5:10
Speaker 3: he was like eighty pounds. And I remember going in
5:13
Speaker 3: there and the family had mentioned to me that there
5:16
Speaker 3: was this rubber coy that he liked to care apart
5:20
Speaker 3: and chew on, and so that's what we were all expecting,
5:22
Speaker 3: and so going in there, I find this rubber toy,
5:26
Speaker 3: but he had also consumed a bunch of clothes and
5:29
Speaker 3: like towels and things like that, so he essentially had
5:32
Speaker 3: a linear for body. And so after making our whole
5:35
Speaker 3: or anerotomy and the intestine, I'm looking at this intestine,
5:39
Speaker 3: and this intestine looked purple, right, and parts of it
5:44
Speaker 3: were blue. And I think all of us know that
5:47
Speaker 3: colors in veternory medicine of tissue, it's really important, right,
5:52
Speaker 3: Things like black, brown, white, gray, these are not great colors,
5:57
Speaker 3: but most of the time purple that is kind of borderline.
6:01
Speaker 3: And so here I am staring at this intestine. I
6:03
Speaker 3: know that I have to remove the intestine that's not viable.
6:07
Speaker 3: I've got to take it. It starved a blood supply,
6:10
Speaker 3: and I'm thinking to myself, how much do you take?
6:13
Speaker 2: Do you take this much intestine and risks short.
6:16
Speaker 3: Bowel syndrome or do you leave the dog with the
6:20
Speaker 3: intestine that mother nature gave him and hope for the best. Well,
6:25
Speaker 3: I made a decision. I thought I took the amount
6:29
Speaker 3: that I needed to take. That was purple. I thought
6:31
Speaker 3: that the other part that looked to be a little
6:33
Speaker 3: bit compromised, I thought blood supply would return to that.
6:37
Speaker 3: I sort of was giving it a shot, giving it
6:40
Speaker 3: a chance to blood supply to return well. About twenty
6:44
Speaker 3: four hours later, dog developed fluid in his abdomen.
6:48
Speaker 2: And I think everybody.
6:48
Speaker 3: Listening knows that you know when you have an abdominala
6:52
Speaker 3: exploratory and you see twenty four hours later that there's
6:55
Speaker 3: a lot of fluid developing an abdomen.
6:58
Speaker 2: That's not a good sign.
6:59
Speaker 3: So immediately I start thinking, should I have taken more intestine?
7:03
Speaker 2: Did I honor the submucosa?
7:05
Speaker 3: Which all of us who do intesline surgery know the submucosa.
7:10
Speaker 3: It's everything, right, And if you don't anchor your future
7:13
Speaker 3: in the submucosa, your repair is just wishful thinking at
7:18
Speaker 3: that point, right, And so all of these thoughts were
7:21
Speaker 3: going through my head, and ultimately we went back in.
7:24
Speaker 3: We re explored that dog, removed that section a bowel
7:29
Speaker 3: that you know, just that tiny amount that the blood
7:32
Speaker 3: supply never came back.
7:34
Speaker 2: We remove that dog did well.
7:36
Speaker 3: But it's a mistake, a thought process, and it's something
7:40
Speaker 3: that I think about even now all the time. And
7:43
Speaker 3: so I do think that the idea of mistakes and
7:47
Speaker 3: ptsd is are real because it doesn't leave you, and
7:51
Speaker 3: it's something that will continue to influence your decision making
7:54
Speaker 3: going forward. All the positive cases, all the cases that
7:57
Speaker 3: did well, how often do I think about those? Almost now?
8:00
Speaker 3: But that one case still sticks with me today.
8:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really appreciate you walking us through that example.
8:07
Speaker 1: And making us feel like we were there, And I
8:10
Speaker 1: think you're right. It really does say something about the
8:13
Speaker 1: power of mistakes that shortly after your residency, one case
8:18
Speaker 1: still stands out that vividly in your mind because it
8:23
Speaker 1: was not the outcome that you were expecting. Now, I
8:27
Speaker 1: do want you to go back again with me to
8:30
Speaker 1: that moment, because I noticed that you described a lot
8:34
Speaker 1: of the things that you were thinking at the time,
8:36
Speaker 1: and I want to push a little bit to talk
8:39
Speaker 1: about the things that you were feeling at that time,
8:42
Speaker 1: which may be uncomfortable because I think that as veterinarians
8:45
Speaker 1: in general, were more comfortable talking about what we were
8:49
Speaker 1: thinking than what we are feeling. But will you accept
8:53
Speaker 1: the challenge to talk a little bit about the feelings
8:55
Speaker 1: of that time.
8:56
Speaker 2: Yeah?
8:56
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know it was it was a fascinating moment
9:00
Speaker 3: because it was a moment of clarity. And now the
9:02
Speaker 3: fact that the dog did well, I certainly don't want
9:04
Speaker 3: to sanitize that from that experience. It was certainly one
9:09
Speaker 3: of the heaviest moments that I ever felt in my
9:12
Speaker 3: life and when this is happening, because you know what
9:17
Speaker 3: the ramifications of that mistake were, the effects on the dog,
9:20
Speaker 3: the effects on the family and that family member, and
9:24
Speaker 3: the entire ecosystem, the team, yourself. It affects so many
9:29
Speaker 3: people involved, and I think that's one of the beauties
9:32
Speaker 3: about that Mary medicine. But then that beauty can also
9:35
Speaker 3: be a tremendous detriment to your emotional stability and the
9:40
Speaker 3: fact that you are now affecting both that patient, the dog,
9:44
Speaker 3: You're affecting the family, your entire team, and yourself. It's
9:47
Speaker 3: everybody involved, and that can lead to a tremendous amount
9:51
Speaker 3: of shame and guilt, right. And I think if people
9:55
Speaker 3: know the expression right where guilt is I did some
10:00
Speaker 3: thing bad, and shame is I am bad, right, And
10:03
Speaker 3: so you do feel a tremendous amount of shame in
10:08
Speaker 3: that moment where you're looking at this thinking this.
10:11
Speaker 2: Is who I am.
10:13
Speaker 3: And I just would encourage anybody to not feel that
10:17
Speaker 3: sense of shame. In the sense of guilt, I think
10:20
Speaker 3: could be a very powerful protective mechanism where if you
10:24
Speaker 3: are feeling that guilt, it's something you're saying, I never
10:27
Speaker 3: want to feel this again, and therefore I may make
10:31
Speaker 3: different decisions or it may change the way that I
10:34
Speaker 3: practice so that this never happens again. But that idea
10:37
Speaker 3: of shaming yourself that is really deleterious and certainly not
10:43
Speaker 3: productive in terms of your overall emotional stability.
10:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, such a great point. I think highlighting both of
10:50
Speaker 1: those feelings and the difference between the two is really important.
10:53
Speaker 1: So shame and guilt absolutely at play there. And you
10:57
Speaker 1: mentioned about yes, the outcome was positive ultimate, which is fantastic,
11:01
Speaker 1: But within those first twenty four hours you didn't know
11:04
Speaker 1: that the outcome was going to be positive. So you're
11:06
Speaker 1: still navigating through that in real time and deciding those
11:11
Speaker 1: next steps to change course and figure out what the
11:14
Speaker 1: best outcome would be for the patient. And so, in
11:17
Speaker 1: those moments during surgery and then immediately after, how did
11:21
Speaker 1: you cope with those feelings of shame and guilt or
11:23
Speaker 1: how did you manage that situation?
11:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, coping is such a great word, because the reality
11:29
Speaker 3: is I didn't cope well, right, I thought about that
11:33
Speaker 3: particular case and I just sort of poured everything into it.
11:37
Speaker 2: I poured my entire sort of being into it.
11:40
Speaker 3: I was opening books and reading anatomy and studying anatomy
11:45
Speaker 3: and looking at different case files and hearing from different people.
11:49
Speaker 3: So I didn't necessarily cope in the best way that
11:53
Speaker 3: I could, because now I was fearful, right, And when
11:57
Speaker 3: you're fearful in surgery, that actually creates its own risks.
12:01
Speaker 2: You're overchecking, you're going a little bit too slow, you're
12:05
Speaker 2: maybe even putting that patient at risk because of how
12:08
Speaker 2: much you're overchecking and taking time and time under anesthesia.
12:13
Speaker 2: And so you're sort of operating from this area of
12:15
Speaker 2: being scared, and really that you shouldn't be scared. You
12:20
Speaker 2: should be present in that moment.
12:23
Speaker 3: And I do think that there is a distinction between
12:25
Speaker 3: being present and confident, and we could talk about that later,
12:29
Speaker 3: but being overly cautious or being overly scared in surgery
12:34
Speaker 3: is actually not beneficial.
12:36
Speaker 2: It's actually a liability.
12:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And
12:40
Speaker 1: I was thinking about anticipating your answer to my next question,
12:44
Speaker 1: which is what would you do differently looking back now?
12:48
Speaker 1: And I think the straightforward answer would be I would
12:51
Speaker 1: have taken more tissue, like I would have respected more bowel.
12:54
Speaker 1: And yes, hindsight's twenty twenty maybe in that case, but
12:59
Speaker 1: to your point, it's not always the right thing to do,
13:02
Speaker 1: and maybe there are risks with being overly cautious and
13:05
Speaker 1: taking too much abouell as well, as you mentioned when
13:08
Speaker 1: we were walking through that example, And so how are
13:12
Speaker 1: you balancing that scared versus present or avoiding the over
13:17
Speaker 1: correction that I think you're referencing.
13:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right.
13:21
Speaker 3: I think that sort of transparent thing, and the focus
13:24
Speaker 3: would be, well, I would just take more intestine, or
13:27
Speaker 3: I would make sure to engage the mucosa.
13:30
Speaker 2: Or i'd know my anatomy cold.
13:33
Speaker 3: And the reality is those are all of the things
13:35
Speaker 3: that I do now and did immediately after. But I
13:40
Speaker 3: think more importantly is that you learn from those mistakes
13:45
Speaker 3: and say to yourself, all right, well, now I have
13:47
Speaker 3: to turn off that internal conversation that I'm having in
13:53
Speaker 3: my head. There's an internal villain and that whole narrative
13:57
Speaker 3: about who you are as a person, what type of
14:00
Speaker 3: surgeon you are, all of that narrative, and that internal
14:04
Speaker 3: dialogue can drive a really destructive spiral, and that's certainly
14:09
Speaker 3: something that I would want to prevent. I would also
14:13
Speaker 3: make sure that you talk to a mentor right and
14:16
Speaker 3: have that conversation, because it creates this incredible vulnerability, and
14:21
Speaker 3: it creates this openness and it allows you to hear
14:23
Speaker 3: it out loud, and that toxic environment where you're in
14:27
Speaker 3: your own head creating this internal narrative now is laid
14:31
Speaker 3: bare so that when your mentor hears it, it could
14:34
Speaker 3: tell you, hey, listen, that best surgeons are not the
14:38
Speaker 3: ones who've never made a mistake, because the best surgeons
14:42
Speaker 3: are the ones that have learned from their mistakes. They
14:45
Speaker 3: have an edge to them and they have taken a
14:48
Speaker 3: different path. The key here is understanding the framework right,
14:53
Speaker 3: instead of looking at that particular mistake in isolation. If
14:57
Speaker 3: you experience something like that, I look get the entire framework,
15:01
Speaker 3: which is conceptualization, experimentation, experience, and then reflection. Right, you
15:08
Speaker 3: conceptualize what it is you're about to do. All right,
15:10
Speaker 3: I'm about to do a resection astamosis. You actually do
15:14
Speaker 3: the anastamosis. Maybe you get a few under your belt.
15:17
Speaker 3: That's the experience, and then you reflect on it. The
15:21
Speaker 3: last two cannot be substituted by any book, right or
15:25
Speaker 3: in this case chat GPT Right. Those two are undeniable,
15:31
Speaker 3: and so certainly always conceptualize, imagine, think in vision what
15:36
Speaker 3: you're about to perform. Then you experiment, you actually do it, right,
15:42
Speaker 3: Usually it's guided with somebody who has the experience and
15:45
Speaker 3: can tell you this is the way you perform it.
15:48
Speaker 3: And you get that experience, get a few under your belt,
15:51
Speaker 3: a few hundred under your belt, and then reflection and
15:55
Speaker 3: after you reflect on it, that's where you can have
15:58
Speaker 3: that conversation with your mentorship. You can go back and
16:01
Speaker 3: read the book, you can reflect on it through other resources,
16:05
Speaker 3: watch videos. But I really think the key factors are
16:09
Speaker 3: both the experience and the reflection.
16:12
Speaker 1: Conceptualization, experimentation, experience and reflection. What an important cycle and
16:19
Speaker 1: a framework for us to keep in mind when we
16:21
Speaker 1: have these challenging moments in practice. And I want to
16:24
Speaker 1: especially underline the reflection part because I think that's so
16:28
Speaker 1: so important and at least in my opinion, the one
16:31
Speaker 1: that's easiest to avoid or skip. So to that point,
16:37
Speaker 1: how do you incorporate reflection into a busy schedule a
16:42
Speaker 1: moment that you might rather just move on from and
16:44
Speaker 1: not reflect on? Like how you overcome the barriers to reflection.
16:48
Speaker 3: I definitely think that no matter how old you are,
16:51
Speaker 3: you need a mentor because that is the emotional aftermath
16:56
Speaker 3: of the reflection.
16:57
Speaker 2: Now, all of us.
16:58
Speaker 3: Can have different techniques and different sources of a mentor.
17:02
Speaker 3: Sometimes there's somebody you follow online that maybe they don't
17:06
Speaker 3: even know that they're being a mentor for you. But
17:08
Speaker 3: really the true definition of a mentor is a two
17:11
Speaker 3: way stream. You both are actively and voluntarily participating in
17:16
Speaker 3: this interplay, this exchange of experience, reflection and experimentation with
17:22
Speaker 3: each other. And it doesn't necessarily have to be about
17:25
Speaker 3: venu medicine. It can be about life. But I do
17:27
Speaker 3: think that happens to really help with the emotional aftermath.
17:32
Speaker 3: It helps you be more gentle on yourself from that
17:35
Speaker 3: internal narrative, that villain that is telling you not the
17:40
Speaker 3: most positive thing. Find yourself with a mentor who can
17:44
Speaker 3: lift you up and realize that your mistakes are not
17:47
Speaker 3: what define you.
17:48
Speaker 2: It's what gives you that edge.
17:50
Speaker 3: That's the key with those mistakes, and that's the key
17:54
Speaker 3: with that reflection on how you gain that experience and
17:59
Speaker 3: you ultimate reflect.
18:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and really emphasizes
18:04
Speaker 1: the importance of being in community, seeking a network, developing
18:10
Speaker 1: your support system. It can be easy to isolate yourself
18:13
Speaker 1: and feel like you're the only person that's making mistakes,
18:15
Speaker 1: and that's one of the main reasons why we want
18:18
Speaker 1: to be talking about here on the podcast, because everyone
18:21
Speaker 1: makes mistakes and it's what you do afterwards that really
18:24
Speaker 1: really matters. And providing that specific action step of going
18:27
Speaker 1: to talk to somebody about it and share that emotional burden.
18:31
Speaker 1: I really like that description is a really helpful and
18:33
Speaker 1: practical tool that we can all take away from this conversation.
18:37
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more because a lot of times people
18:40
Speaker 3: feel like a lot of these really amazing and talented
18:45
Speaker 3: surgeons or people it doesn't even have to be a surgeon,
18:48
Speaker 3: just talented people have amazing intuition.
18:52
Speaker 2: Keep in mind, what's the root word in there. It
18:54
Speaker 2: is tuition.
18:56
Speaker 3: It is that idea of you are getting taught in
18:59
Speaker 3: your learning, and therefore that that tuition, that's the part
19:04
Speaker 3: you have to pay the price. That's the part that
19:07
Speaker 3: you have to have the experience and you have to
19:10
Speaker 3: have the reflection. The word tuition is in that word
19:14
Speaker 3: intuition because it essentially says, I am making these decisions
19:19
Speaker 3: because I have the tuition and now it's in me.
19:22
Speaker 3: But you're not going to have the intuition unless you
19:26
Speaker 3: have that tuition first. And the only way to get
19:29
Speaker 3: the tuition is through experience and then reflection.
19:33
Speaker 1: Awesome. That is a helpful framework to keep in mind
19:37
Speaker 1: and a reminder that it's a process. We say this frequently,
19:41
Speaker 1: but I'm going to say it again that venor and
19:44
Speaker 1: medicine is a practice. You've got to get the reps
19:46
Speaker 1: in and having that coach, that mentor along the way
19:49
Speaker 1: to get a gut check you as you go is
19:52
Speaker 1: so so valuable. So really appreciate those words of wisdom
19:57
Speaker 1: in general. And I want to wrap our car versation
20:00
Speaker 1: today by focusing specifically on that new grad, that recent graduate.
20:05
Speaker 1: So what advice would you give to those of us
20:09
Speaker 1: who are absolutely terrified of making that very first big
20:13
Speaker 1: mistake out in practice?
20:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, certainly, if you're terrified of making that big mistake, Well,
20:18
Speaker 3: first I want to say, I feel you, that I
20:21
Speaker 3: feel the exact same way. And so the three things
20:24
Speaker 3: I would focus on if I was a new grad. Right,
20:26
Speaker 3: if you always ask the question, if your older self
20:28
Speaker 3: could talk to your younger.
20:29
Speaker 2: Self, what would they say? And here are the three
20:31
Speaker 2: things I would say.
20:32
Speaker 3: It's number one that fear is a good thing, right,
20:35
Speaker 3: Embrace that fear, because that fear is the stretch zone. Right,
20:39
Speaker 3: that fear or that level of uncertainty is the stretch
20:43
Speaker 3: zone because just like any muscle, if you stretch it
20:47
Speaker 3: and then contract it, it usually is going to come
20:50
Speaker 3: out stronger on the other side. And so when you're
20:53
Speaker 3: doing surgery or anything, you don't want to operate from
20:56
Speaker 3: that idea of fear. You want to operate, in my opinion,
21:00
Speaker 3: from an idea of presence. Presence is different than confidence, right,
21:03
Speaker 3: Presences means you're locked in, you're focused, because confidence without
21:07
Speaker 3: that experience, without that reflection is just arrogance and scrubs, right,
21:13
Speaker 3: And so I lean a little bit away from the
21:16
Speaker 3: word from confidence, and I focus on presence.
21:18
Speaker 2: So I would just say, embrace the fear.
21:21
Speaker 3: It's the stretch stone, and when you come out of
21:24
Speaker 3: that stretch stone, you're stronger.
21:26
Speaker 2: The second thing I would say is trioge your mistakes.
21:29
Speaker 3: Right, making a different call, picking the wrong suit, your size,
21:34
Speaker 3: or let's say you decide to prescribe a different medication
21:38
Speaker 3: or you have a different tech. Those are things that
21:40
Speaker 3: you can work through. Those are things you could have
21:42
Speaker 3: a conversation about. Those are things that you can work
21:44
Speaker 3: on with your experience and your reflection. So triage those
21:49
Speaker 3: mistakes that you can learn from. That's the second thing.
21:52
Speaker 3: And then finally find your tribe right, find your people,
21:55
Speaker 3: find your hive essentially your community people you can talk
21:59
Speaker 3: to you and have a mentor, because that is going
22:02
Speaker 3: to be one of the biggest and most impactful decisions
22:06
Speaker 3: that you can make going forward is find a realistic goal,
22:10
Speaker 3: then give yourself a timeline for that goal, and then
22:12
Speaker 3: have a mentor to critique that goal, because I think
22:17
Speaker 3: that you can't protect people, because when you protect people
22:20
Speaker 3: from making mistakes, I think you ultimately rob them of competency.
22:25
Speaker 1: Oh, such great things to think about and such valuable advice.
22:30
Speaker 1: Mistakes are hard for everyone. I think everybody gets that
22:35
Speaker 1: same feeling in your gut when you think about mistakes
22:38
Speaker 1: or a particular case or memory immediately comes to mind,
22:43
Speaker 1: and we all know that feeling, and nobody wants to
22:45
Speaker 1: make them. But I think emphasizing the fact that we
22:47
Speaker 1: need mistakes in order to grow and be better is
22:51
Speaker 1: a really great reframe of a necessary discomfort to stretch
22:55
Speaker 1: those boundaries of our stretch zone. And so I think
22:58
Speaker 1: you've got to identify that feeling validated. It happens to everybody,
23:03
Speaker 1: but provided us some really helpful tools to work through
23:06
Speaker 1: that and use those mistakes to our advantage moving forward.
23:09
Speaker 1: And so for that, I'm so grateful for you for
23:12
Speaker 1: coming on the show, for kicking off this series, Doctor Campbell.
23:15
Speaker 1: I really really appreciate your time and thoughtfulness.
23:18
Speaker 3: Ah, this was this is the type of conversation vetternary
23:21
Speaker 3: medicine needs, and so I feel honored and it was
23:23
Speaker 3: a privilege joining you today.
23:26
Speaker 1: Fantastic and thank you so much for each of you
23:28
Speaker 1: for joining us on this episode of My Veterinary Life podcast.
23:31
Speaker 1: We love sharing this journey with you, and remember, we
23:34
Speaker 1: want to hear from you, so please be sure to
23:35
Speaker 1: leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or
23:38
Speaker 1: whatever platform you listen to, and you can also email
23:40
Speaker 1: me at MVL podcast at ABMA dot org. Take care
23:44
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time.