Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Going From Cook To Sous Chef Ep. 8

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Going From Cook To Sous Chef Ep. 8 · Chef's PSA Podcast

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Hello chefs. You're listening to chefs, PSA
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podcast. I'm your host Andre natera.
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Today's episode, we're going to talk about the transition of
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going from cook two, sous chef, and some things that you might
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expect when you become the sous chef and things to look out for.
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So the other day on my Instagram page, I posted that.
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I get asked the question a lot. How do I get promoted into the
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sous chef role? And I said, there's three things
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that I think would definitely help you get that position.
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And I said, number one, you need to be an excellent cook.
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Number two, you need to be the go-to person and the kitchen and
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number three, you need to make sure that not only that the chef
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knows, but that everyone else in the kitchen knows that you're
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interested in the position. So I made it pretty brief on
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Instagram, but today I kind of want to get into that much more
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extensively and do a deep dive into what I mean, specifically
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with each one. So, let's start with the first
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one. And that is the price of Entry.
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Can you cook? And I had mentioned that a lot
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of people when they're when they're starting out.
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They think that in order to become the sous chef, that it's
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all paperwork and admin and writing schedule.
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Rules and you know talking to the chef and goofing off but
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that could be the furthest thing from it.
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It's not about the admin work. It's not about filling out
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temperature logs. It's not about writing
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schedules. It's about knowing how to cook
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and demonstrating that you are the best cook in the kitchen.
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And that you have a firm understanding on, not just food
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and culinary, but you have a firm understanding on the food,
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specifically, where you work. So you need to be able to
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demonstrate The most important thing which is do you know how
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to cook that is the gatekeeper that is the price of entry.
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And if you're focusing on all these other things, like, people
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would come up, to me and say Chef, can you teach me how to
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ride a schedule? I want to become a sous chef and
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I used to think to myself fuck, that's the furthest thing from
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what you need to be working on to become a sous chef.
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And I would tell them you don't need to worry about schedules.
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You need to worry about making sure that your station is set on
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time that you're a good cook that show up on time that you're
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Possible. All these other things, make
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sure that you are the best cook in the kitchen and not just the
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best cook, but you are consistently the best, cook in
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the kitchen. That puts out delicious food
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every single time. That's what's going to set you
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apart. Not writing schedules, not
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walking around with a clipboard. A lot of these, these want to be
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clipboard chefs, you know, they think that that's where the
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money is. They think that?
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Well, if I walk around with a clipboard and I think I'm
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important people respect me Because they think oh that's
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that's what the other Sous chefs do, but that could be furthest
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from the truth. Being a sous chef, really is
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like they've mastered a certain level of culinary expertise and
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because of that they are being looked at for the next position.
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If you are only thinking about the admin work it's it's the
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wrong approach. I'm telling you right now, it is
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the absolute wrong way to go about it.
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Make sure that you have very strong culinary fundamentals,
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And when it comes to culinary fundamentals, make sure that you
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have a realistic understanding of where you are.
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You know, a lot of chefs, young Cooks in the kitchen.
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They think that they've progressed further along than
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they really have and, you know, they overestimate their
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abilities. I put up a story the other day,
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saying, you know, do you have the best cake in the kingdom and
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a lot of cooks do believe that they serve the best cake in the
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Kingdom, but they really haven't experienced, what great cake is
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so. Sometimes you need to ask the
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chef, you need to ask the other Sous chefs.
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Like give me honest feedback on where I'm at culinary and let me
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know what I need to work on. Make sure you're asking those
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questions so that you have a good understanding of what you
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need to work on and actually work towards improving those
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things. When you do receive the
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feedback, don't take it personal, you're asking for the
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feedback, be prepared to hear things that you don't like
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because you may have overestimated, your culinary
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ability. So first and foremost, make sure
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that you You are the best cook in the kitchen.
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There's a lot that goes into being the best, cook in the
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kitchen. So we talked specifically about
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the food, but there's other things, there's also, you know,
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are you on time? Are you and uniform?
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Do you Buck the system? A lot of that plays into being
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the best cook, when your partner is in the weeds?
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Do you jump in and help them out?
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That's also being the best cook. So, not just being a good cook
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but also being, you know, a cook that's willing to help everyone
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out and Not selfish. That is the person that most
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likely will get promoted. So take that into consideration
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is are you the best cook and are you the person that everyone
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goes to when they need help? So that's really Point.
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Number two is, are you the go to person in the kitchen?
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Are you the first person that volunteers to help when people
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need help? Are you the person that when
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someone calls off your, the person that they're going to
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call and say, hey, can you come in?
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Because we had a call off, and we need someone to cover now.
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No one likes receiving. That phone call.
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But when you do respond and you do show up at that goes a long
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way in the mind of a chef. And, and a lot of times people
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will say, you know, it's my day off, I'm not coming in and I
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understand that and I totally respect that your time is your
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time. However, when you are the
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leader, if someone calls off, it is your time to come in.
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That is your responsibility. There is no one else.
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So when you are in the sous, chef, All sometimes you might
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not have the choice, you might have to come in because if it's
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not you then there is no other option.
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They have to close the restaurant.
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You also need to be the person that when there's off-site
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events, you're the first person that volunteers to go to these
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off-site events and help the chef.
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You are the one that stays late. You're the one that comes in
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early, all these things matter, and they matter because those
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are the things that you're going to do when you are the sous
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chef. And a lot of people will push
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back and say well I'll do that when they pay me but the fact of
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the matter is if you're not Rating that willingness before
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you get the money, a lot of people in the position of Chef
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might not be willing to gamble because there are unsure if
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you'll do it. So I'll give you an example,
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there's two people you say that, I'll do it when they pay me and
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the other person says, well, I'll just do it anyway.
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Who's going to get promoted? The person that's doing it
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anyway because when the time comes, the chef knows when times
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are tough, that person, I know will come in on their day off.
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Rhino, they're willing to Stay late because someone called off,
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or they're willing to come in early as needed.
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That person is going to be rewarded.
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So if you see that, you are not that go-to person, make sure
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that you become that person, because the attitude of pay me
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more and I'll do it, it just doesn't work the world in my
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opinion, doesn't work that way. And a lot of chefs opinion, it
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doesn't work that way. You need to be able to
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demonstrate that you are willing to do it.
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And when the chef is aware, that you're willing to do it, they'll
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give you that job. Which brings us to the third
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point. And that is to make sure that
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the person that makes the hiring decisions is aware that you are
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interested in the job. I know I've been passed over for
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jobs simply because I never expressed that I wanted them.
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I remember that I had gone and I was a temporary executive chef
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for this beautiful hotel that I really wanted to be the chef of.
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And I went in and I said, okay, I'm going to work hard and I'm
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going to get the Clean and I'm going to make the food better
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and I'm going to get the team behind me and they'll have to
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give me the job. And you know, I was there for
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several months and then they finally came to me and said hey
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just so you know we've hired a chef so we're not going to be
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needing your services anymore and I was kind of bummed out and
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I didn't understand why I thought they would have offered
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me the job. And I went out to dinner with
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with the general manager and he asked me point-blank.
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He said, why didn't you apply for the job?
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We really Wanted to hire you and I said I didn't apply because I
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thought you guys would have asked me to and he said, nope,
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that's not how it works. If you're interested in the job,
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then you need to apply. It was a good lesson for me.
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And, you know, it was a job that I'd missed that.
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I would have really enjoyed to have gotten but hopefully that
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lesson you could learn from it. If you want the job, you need to
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express interest. You need to tell the chef that
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you are wanting to move up and that you are looking at the
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sous-chef roll. Need to be prepared that the
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chef is going to tell you. You may not be ready.
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And here are some things that you need to work on my advice
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when you get to that conversation.
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And you know, this is a little side tangent is when you go into
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that negotiation with the chef and they say, this is what you
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need to work on take a pad and a pen and write everything down
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that they say this will demonstrate that, they know
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you're serious. It might put them on a little
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bit of alert because they know you're right in a down so they
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need to make sure that whatever that they're saying that they're
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going to hold themselves accountable to it.
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And then work your ass off to make sure you accomplish all the
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things that the chef said that you needed to work on once
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that's done, go back and say, Chef.
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I've accomplished this this and this whatever it was that you
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wanted me to work on. Do you feel like I am now ready
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to take on the sous-chef roll? Hopefully they'll say yes you're
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ready or they will tell you a couple more things that you need
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to work on and then you repeat the same process over again and
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hopefully next time you get the job but make sure that you let
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them know That you are interested because if they don't
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know you're interested, they just may assume they're going to
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go with a different candidate because you haven't expressed
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interest because some people just want to be Cooks forever,
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they don't want to move up, they have no desire to move into a
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sous-chef roll. Another thing that I would do it
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again. These are these are sometimes,
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my Makaveli and tactics is I would go and tell every single
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person that I work on the line with, especially whoever my, you
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know. However, my biggest competition
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is Hey, I'm going to get the sous chef job and I'm applying
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for it and I know I'm going to get it and just demonstrate a
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little bit of confidence in that, because that may deter
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them from saying, oh, shit, they're going to get it and why
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should I even apply? So you kind of thin out the
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competition a little bit, you may deter other people from from
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getting the job. Not only that, but people talk.
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And so when everyone says, who should be the next sous-chef
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groans can say, oh, clearly this person, that's all they want
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their. They want it so bad.
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You got to give it to him. So building some of that
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momentum Behind you as to why you should be.
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That person is a good thing. Just make sure you're not a
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asshole in the kitchen or a jerk.
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Because if everyone knows that you want to be a sous chef, but
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people don't like you, you don't want them going behind your back
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and saying, do not give it to that person if they get it, I
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will quit. And trust me.
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That's happened. I've been in many of those
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conversations where, you know, kitchen, team comes up to me and
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says absolutely, you cannot promote this person, so make
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sure you have the team support behind you, but make sure
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everyone knows that you are interested in the job because
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that will go a long way in making sure that that you get
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the job. Now, I do want to point out a
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couple of things, as the person who would do the hiring as the
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executive chef. A lot of times, we already know
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who's going to get the sous chef job, you know, the conversations
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have been had behind the scenes, may be the executive Sous chefs
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or some of the other Sous chefs are saying.
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Hey, this is the person. So, a lot of times in my
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experience, I've already gone up to the person and said, hey,
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you're next in line, get ready, be ready for the cooking
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interview or whatever the process, maybe I've already let
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them know. It's already been predetermined.
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Majid my mind who is getting the job and that's usually, because
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they've done all the things that were discussed previously.
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You know, they are the best cook in the kitchen, they are the
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go-to person and hopefully they've expressed that they want
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the job. If not, I might be sitting them
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down and asking them if they have ever thought about becoming
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the sous-chef. Now, we could talk about the
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interview process at length, but I did another podcast.
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Regarding cooking interviews and I think if you're in a position
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where you might be close to becoming a sous chef, you should
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go back to Listen to If you have to do a cooking interview and
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there's something I didn't sound that podcast in particular and
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that is you don't necessarily have to be the best candidate.
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When you get the job, you have to be the best candidate that
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day. So don't forget that like
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they're sure people could doubt themselves and say, there's
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plenty of better Cooks than me. And this person is better than
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me or that person's better than me, but you have An advantage.
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If you're cooking, if you're doing a cooking test in your own
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kitchen, you know, where everything is, you know how
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everything works. You already have some idea of
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the type of food that the chef likes or the food that you're
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doing there. So when you do your cooking
13:07
interview you have home field advantage, you don't need to
13:10
have a better resume than the other person that you're going
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up against. You just need to be the better
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performer, the day of the interview.
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So keep that in mind. And I, and again, I highly
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recommend that you go back and listen to the cooking interview
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podcast. I'll share a funny story with
13:25
you. No, we talked about making sure
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that you're focusing on The Culinary side and not the admin
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side until you get into the position the admin stuff.
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Quite honestly, I've been an executive chef a long time.
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The admin stuff is easy. Sure.
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You'll you know, computer programs Excel, the stand the
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other, but the fact of the matter is your culinary skills
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are going to get you there in the admin skills can be learned
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much quicker than the culinary skills so don't, don't worry too
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much about the admin stuff. You'll figure it out when you
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get there, it's definitely not rocket science and it's
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definitely not more. Complicated than the culinary
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side. But I remember interviewing a
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guy, and the only thing he wanted to ask me was what kind
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of paperwork we did, what kind of systems we had in place and
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everything to do with admin, and he kept bragging about how he
14:12
writes schedules and how he does formulas and manages food cost.
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Now, in this particular place, I had a culinary admin which none
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of my chefs had to do any sort of admin work.
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They were all on the floor so the fact that he had spent his
14:24
entire career We're really focusing on being, you know, the
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type of Chef. That was good at computers and
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and making spreadsheets. Did him?
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No good. I didn't hire him because like,
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I don't need someone, that's good at admin work.
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I need chefs that know how to cook.
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Like, I'm not trying to make, like, the best Excel run
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kitchen. I want a world-class kitchen
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that produces great food, and if the only thing that you're
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focused on is admin worked and you ain't the right person for
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the job. So that was a personal situation
14:54
for me, but, I just thought it was a it was a stupid thing to
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an interview with a chef to talk about how great of an admin you
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are but not talk about what a great chef you are, or be able
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to demonstrate, you know, depth with regards to culinary
15:10
knowledge. So anyway, that's neither here.
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Nor there that's just side tangent.
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I do want to talk about when you do become the sous-chef, your
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life is going to change a lot of the assumptions that you had
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that the sous chef didn't work hard.
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You know, we all think our boss doesn't do.
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Anything until you get in that position and then you say oh
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shit, they did a lot more than I thought they did.
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When you get in that role, you're going to become the go-to
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person. Something goes wrong, call the
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sous chef who has to work late, call the sous chef.
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So the sous chef all of a sudden recognizes.
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Like you thought the person didn't do anything, you thought
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the job was going to be easy and then you're in for a rude.
15:46
Awakening. It's much more difficult and
15:48
much more complex than you ever imagined.
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So be prepared for that. The other thing that you need to
15:54
be prepared for Is there might be a little bit of resentment if
15:58
you got promoted at the same place and all your former line,
16:01
Cooks used to be one of the one of them and now you're their
16:05
boss and now you're telling them what to do and they don't like
16:07
that and they think oh now you think you're better than us
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because you got promoted now you're in with the chef and blah
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blah blah, this can be a difficult thing.
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For a lot of people because you went from being their friend and
16:19
being, you know one of the homies and how you're one of
16:22
them. Your you're the others, they
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don't Don't want you around, they're afraid you're going to
16:26
tell their secrets now you're telling them what to do and they
16:29
don't like it. They thought when you were going
16:31
to get the job that it was going to be, you know, a win for
16:33
everybody. But then you quickly found out
16:35
that you actually have a job to do and part of that job is
16:38
telling people what to do. So you need to be fully prepared
16:41
for that. And I'll share a quick story
16:43
with you when I got my first sous chef job.
16:45
You know, I was I was relatively young.
16:48
I think I was making about 21 years old and I was working at
16:52
this Italian restaurant. Do we had a zabaglione On the,
16:56
on the menu. And for those people that don't
16:58
know what that is, that's just basically a Sabayon, for lack of
17:02
a better term whipped whipped egg yolks with sugar fluffy,
17:05
it's poured over fruit. This was an Italian restaurant,
17:08
and one of the cooks there, he would make it wrong on purpose.
17:12
He instead of making this a baglioni, he would just use
17:15
crème anglaise. And so I noticed he did it.
17:18
And, you know, he was about 10 years older than me.
17:21
Like I said, I was in my early 20s he was he was a man.
17:24
Already was in his 30s. And I was scared to confront
17:27
them. So I went up to one of the more
17:28
senior Sous chefs and I said, hey, this guy, I know is making
17:31
the recipes wrong and I'm not sure what to do and he says,
17:34
well you got to tell him to do it, right?
17:36
And I said, well, how do I do that?
17:37
And he says, you just get in his face and say, do it this way,
17:40
because that's the way it is, and a discussion.
17:43
And I said, okay, so I went up to the guy and I was nervous.
17:45
I was afraid to tell him what to do because, you know, I was a
17:48
young kid and this was a grown man.
17:50
And, I walked up to him, and I said, hey, you're making it
17:52
wrong. And he says, what do you mean?
17:55
And I, I said you're supposed to use a bug Leona, not crème
17:59
anglaise and he says, but I like it better with crème anglaise
18:02
and zabaglione. It taste better.
18:04
I said, shit like I didn't know what to do and I said well I got
18:07
a little closer like you said, I said I'm not asking you, this is
18:10
the way it is and I need you to do it and then he said, okay, I
18:13
just wanted to test you and see if you had any balls.
18:15
So I mean that's that's that's the way it was back then.
18:19
But to give you an example, like that's probably not far fetched
18:23
from what cooks are going to do to You, when you get your first
18:26
sous chef job, they're going to test you.
18:28
The more you, let them get away with.
18:30
It's just a line that they just keep moving further and further
18:33
and like, how far can we push you?
18:35
When are you going to put up with it?
18:36
And say, no enough is enough. So I would say when you become a
18:39
sous chef know that you're in a weird spot like the cooks don't
18:43
necessarily trust you anymore, you're still green so you can't
18:47
really hang out with the senior Chef.
18:48
So you're in this weird in-between phase and it is a
18:52
little bit awkward especially if it's at a place where you
18:54
previously We worked where you got promoted.
18:56
So anyway, keep that in mind. It's something that that
18:58
everyone goes through. We've all been through it.
19:00
It's part of the rite of passage, but know that you will
19:03
get through it. You will get better and things
19:07
things move along, and then you become, you know, the next step,
19:10
Chef De Cuisine executive chef or whatever, the whatever the
19:13
hierarchy is wherever you're working.
19:15
So anyway, that was a long discussion on sous-chef in.
19:22
You know what it is? That I would look for.
19:24
And what I say this is what I'm Looking for trust me a lot of
19:27
chefs are looking for this to. So it's this isn't just my
19:30
opinion on thing. You know, I've have many chefs
19:32
that I work with behind the scenes a lot of my friends are
19:35
executive chefs, run, restaurants, run hotels, top of
19:38
the food chain chefs, the Illuminati chefs.
19:41
Right? As I'd like to, I like to say so
19:44
they share similar opinions to the.
19:46
So, take my word for it. If you take my advice, it's not
19:50
guaranteed, but I think you'll have a better chance at getting
19:53
the position if you Do what what we said here on the podcast.
19:57
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