Latest / The Parenting Podcast / When they walk away from your values | Ep. 43

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When they walk away from your values | Ep. 43 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:57
  Cheryl: ellen.
• 0:58
  Cheryl: We are so glad to have you back in here with us today.
• 1:01
  Cheryl: Yes, we missed
• 1:02
  Ellen: you.
• 1:02
  Ellen: Thank you.
• 1:02
  Ellen: Thank you.
• 1:03
  Ellen: It was really fun being sick.
• 1:05
  Ellen: and now I wish she
• 1:06
  Christie: would've been on vacation or something like that.
• 1:08
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 1:08
  Ellen: Something.
• 1:09
  Ellen: So this my first day actually out and it driven and my brain I think is lagging.
• 1:15
  Ellen: So it's kinda, so what you feeling good?
• 1:17
  Ellen: Yeah, I feel great.
• 1:18
  Ellen: You know, it's weird to have to self isolate.
• 1:21
  Ellen: I think I had one of the COVID variants or whatever.
• 1:24
  Ellen: I didn't test mm-hmm but I was, you
• 1:26
  Cheryl: know, it sounded very COVID.
• 1:27
  Ellen: Yeah, it wasn't miserable, but it wasn't, you know, I wasn't dancing
• 1:32
  Cheryl: but thank you for not sharing it with us.
• 1:34
  Cheryl: Yes, exactly.
• 1:36
  Cheryl: but something kind of fun.
• 1:37
  Cheryl: You know, since I lived by myself.
• 1:40
  Cheryl: Sometimes looking for something to help make me laugh.
• 1:43
  Cheryl: And I'm kind of particular.
• 1:45
  Cheryl: I don't like stupid things, but I do like clever mm-hmm and so something I've been kind of been going back to is old far side comics.
• 1:53
  Cheryl: Do you remember Gary Barson?
• 1:55
  Cheryl: Oh, remember?
• 1:55
  Cheryl: Oh yeah.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: I just, Googling.
• 1:58
  Cheryl: And then I just go back and look at the old ones that are being put
• 2:01
  Danae: ones that were in the newspaper,
• 2:04
  Cheryl: you know, and he is, some of'em are stupid and there's one.
• 2:06
  Cheryl: I just don't get I have to have somebody explain it to me.
• 2:09
  Cheryl: I go, I don't even see what that means.
• 2:12
  Cheryl: But the rest of them, I mean, so clever what an amazing gift he has.
• 2:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm he was fun, you know, I would, I wish I could be clever
• 2:21
  Ellen: well about that.
• 2:22
  Ellen: Yes.
• 2:22
  Ellen: In one comic frame.
• 2:23
  Ellen: I mean, that's, what's really amazing one little frame and right.
• 2:26
  Ellen: He sums it
• 2:27
  Cheryl: all up.
• 2:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm yeah.
• 2:28
  Cheryl: You know, it's so good to
• 2:29
  Christie: laugh
• 2:30
  Cheryl: and it is humor.
• 2:31
  Cheryl: It's really good to laugh and I'll say it again.
• 2:33
  Cheryl: Do you realize fake laughter.
• 2:37
  Cheryl: works for the release of the good
• 2:39
  Ellen: hormones.
• 2:40
  Cheryl: Oh, still.
• 2:40
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:40
  Cheryl: So to go and I don't mean it
• 2:45
  Christie: Uhhuh.
• 2:46
  Christie: That was really good.
• 2:46
  Christie: Cheryl, that makes me wonder if you really mean it right.
• 2:49
  Christie: Laughing.
• 2:49
  Christie: Maybe I'm not as funny as I think am
• 2:52
  Cheryl: And I just FYI, knowing that scientifically there have been times when it was hard and I can remember one time particular.
• 3:01
  Cheryl: I was just making my bed.
• 3:03
  Cheryl: And I was just pretty down and I remember this.
• 3:06
  Cheryl: And so I started laughing while I was making my bed.
• 3:09
  Cheryl: And there was nothing fake it till
• 3:10
  Christie: you make it, except that it
• 3:12
  Cheryl: actually
• 3:13
  Christie: releases the
• 3:13
  Ellen: hormones.
• 3:14
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 3:14
  Ellen: Well, well smiling does the same.
• 3:17
  Ellen: Smiling does the same, because I've done that before.
• 3:19
  Christie: That's funny.
• 3:19
  Christie: I've been doing this yoga video and like on this one pose, she'll turn to the camera and smile.
• 3:24
  Christie: And so I'll smile and respond, but I'm not feeling a smile when I'm in this pose, but yeah, she must, you take this.
• 3:32
  Christie: They say
• 3:32
  Ellen: you just force yourself to smile.
• 3:34
  Ellen: Eventually, whatever happens, I'll lift your mood.
• 3:37
  Ellen: So.
• 3:38
  Cheryl: Well, last time, our last episode we were responding to what Dr.
• 3:44
  Cheryl: Kelly Stevens talked about about family realities, and so forth.
• 3:48
  Cheryl: And last time we developed it.
• 3:49
  Cheryl: Talking about, well, actually it goes back to our values and we talked a lot about little ones and how we can lay the groundwork and what we can do.
• 3:57
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm And so this time I want us to go into.
• 4:02
  Cheryl: Some more challenging territories, the territory of our older children.
• 4:06
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm Mm.
• 4:07
  Cheryl: And so even as they begin to go into preteen all the way up, even our released grown children.
• 4:15
  Cheryl: And so let's jump into that.
• 4:17
  Cheryl: Let's talk about navigating this territory.
• 4:20
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm yeah.
• 4:21
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:21
  Cheryl: I believe in parenting One of the things that's really hard, is when you invest, when you give your life You have your family values and you're trying to live them out before your children and you teach'em to your children Let's say you're.
• 4:38
  Cheryl: a farmer, you're sewing all these seeds.
• 4:40
  Cheryl: And you don't see your children walking in it mm-hmm or you see your children pushing back
• 4:45
  Ellen: yes.
• 4:46
  Ellen: there are times when that's really scary, right?
• 4:48
  Ellen: Because you realize your child may not agree with you.
• 4:51
  Ellen: Your.
• 4:51
  Ellen: Teenager.
• 4:52
  Ellen: You're young adult and you have to go, Hmm.
• 4:56
  Ellen: You know, what, what do I do right now?
• 4:58
  Ellen: Right.
• 4:58
  Ellen: I don't agree with their decision.
• 5:01
  Danae: right
• 5:01
  Cheryl: Kelly was saying, this is as they begin to grow out.
• 5:04
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:04
  Cheryl: They may not embrace what you see as a value mm-hmm so how can we deal with this young or old when they, yeah.
• 5:10
  Cheryl: Don't walk in the values or they're not walking in what we think is, um, our family identity.
• 5:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm what are some recommendations that y'all would make to our listeners about how to handle.
• 5:23
  Danae: Well, I, first of all, just want to reiterate what he said is that our children, as they get older, they're becoming more and more independent and more autonomous.
• 5:34
  Danae: Yes.
• 5:34
  Danae: And this is healthy.
• 5:36
  Danae: Yes, it is.
• 5:36
  Danae: And so please, parents don't think it's because you're doing it all wrong or there's something wrong with your children, right?
• 5:43
  Danae: This is natural.
• 5:44
  Danae: But I think, you know, we can talk about some ways to maybe make that a little easier.
• 5:49
  Danae: Well, I
• 5:50
  Christie: think.
• 5:50
  Christie: To make it easier on your heart is to realize you're looking at a snapshot of where your child is today.
• 5:56
  Christie: Mm mm-hmm mm-hmm whether they're 16 or 23 or, you know, it.
• 6:01
  Christie: Today, they're pushing back and it may be because they are just needing to exercise that independence.
• 6:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:07
  Christie: Not necessarily that they're rejecting the value itself.
• 6:10
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 6:10
  Cheryl: or they're becoming who they're supposed to be.
• 6:13
  Cheryl: I didn't understand.
• 6:14
  Cheryl: Is that this is the releasing process.
• 6:17
  Cheryl: Right.
• 6:18
  Cheryl: And it is healthy.
• 6:19
  Cheryl: It doesn't feel healthy.
• 6:20
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm yeah.
• 6:21
  Cheryl: In fact, it may feel like things are falling apart.
• 6:23
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm Yeah,
• 6:24
  Danae: especially when it first starts happening, I think, uh, you know, we all are caught off
• 6:28
  Cheryl: guard.
• 6:29
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm When our children begin to challenge our values, mm-hmm or to look elsewhere or to espe things or to push back on what we think mm-hmm is important.
• 6:40
  Cheryl: And we've said it before, you know, That if an 18 month old, two year old starts saying no, mm-hmm, that actually this is good.
• 6:49
  Cheryl: They're developing their own personal identity.
• 6:51
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm We can understand, we can kind of see that mm-hmm it just gets a lot harder.
• 6:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm when the stakes are higher mm-hmm and they're getting older and you see the end way out there.
• 7:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm of your releasing.
• 7:04
  Cheryl: Well,
• 7:04
  Christie: yeah, because as we're starting to release, they're beginning to develop what their values are and their very first value is Independence's true.
• 7:12
  Christie: And that's what they're in for so long.
• 7:13
  Christie: They've been dependent on us.
• 7:15
  Christie: Mm-hmm and it's hard for us to let them have that independence.
• 7:19
  Christie: Mm-hmm This
• 7:20
  Danae: weekend.
• 7:21
  Danae: I was with, uh, a lot of my family members because it was my mom's.
• 7:24
  Danae: Birthday.
• 7:25
  Danae: And I was with my little three year old niece and you'd ask her something and she would just say, I'm good and she'd totally go through their direction.
• 7:33
  Danae: And I think I liked that, that her parents, you probably were helping her.
• 7:36
  Danae: Like, we want her to have that ability to say no without, you know, falling down on the floor and yelling it.
• 7:43
  Danae: She'd just say.
• 7:44
  Danae: I'm good.
• 7:45
  Danae: Come on.
• 7:45
  Danae: You just thought she was cute.
• 7:46
  Danae: You're like, what did I even ask her?
• 7:48
  Danae: I don't remember.
• 7:49
  Danae: Cuz she's so cute.
• 7:53
  Cheryl: mean, and that's the same, releasing process.
• 7:57
  Cheryl: Right.
• 7:57
  Cheryl: you know, uh, a picture.
• 8:00
  Cheryl: That helped me understand a lot of what's going on in these turbulent years.
• 8:05
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm of post childhood, heading towards adulthood is an illustration.
• 8:11
  Cheryl: And if I had a whiteboard here, I would draw it, but it is what happens in reality.
• 8:18
  Cheryl: And as parents, when our children are born, we have a hundred percent.
• 8:24
  Cheryl: That we can put'em on their stomach or their back, or we can buy pavers or not, or whatever it is.
• 8:29
  Cheryl: Um, but they begin to resist that and begin to assert themselves saying, I don't wanna be put on my back.
• 8:35
  Cheryl: I want to be, you know, so we can begin to see that, that what we thought is control already is being pushed back by their developing their own independence and their self-awareness mm-hmm And so out from that, it is kind of a slope that goes down and it's a fairly easy decline at first.
• 8:56
  Cheryl: And then the.
• 8:57
  Cheryl: Line starts falling pretty straight down when we get to the teen years.
• 9:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm mm-hmm and that's what makes it challenging because we still have to be parents, but the way we handle control mm-hmm really matters.
• 9:13
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm yeah, because like that three year old, we all know that you can't parent a nine year old, the same way you do a three year old mm-hmm Now, take your nap.
• 9:21
  Cheryl: Now put your hand in your lap, then we can see that's easier, but it's really hard as they move into the teens toward the releasing years.
• 9:30
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and we have to start relinquishing more control because we want to continue or increase our influence mm-hmm mm-hmm right?
• 9:39
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 9:40
  Ellen: I think that's a, that's a really good point, cuz I think that's something.
• 9:45
  Ellen: when you first get to that point in your life around, you know, sixth grade going mm-hmm in, they're going through changes.
• 9:52
  Ellen: Mm-hmm like boiling emotions just swirling around and it just barely takes a spark to start an Inferno, or at least sometimes that's how you feel.
• 10:01
  Ellen: Mm-hmm, something that you thought your child might not even care about now.
• 10:05
  Ellen: They are ready to, you know, To go to battle for right.
• 10:09
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and I think that's, uh, to me that was a really surprising thing.
• 10:13
  Ellen: I think our first son was pretty easygoing, so it wasn't the same conflict, but then I had girls and after that, and things were more of a conflict, a little bit sooner.
• 10:24
  Ellen: And so much of that depends on the personality of Your child, you could have done a lot of really good things, but some kids are just, they want out mm-hmm you know, they, they wanna run their own lives at, you know, 12 and 13 and that's
• 10:39
  Cheryl: tough.
• 10:40
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 10:40
  Cheryl: Well, and they're beginning to become the person.
• 10:43
  Cheryl: They, they don't know who they're going to be.
• 10:45
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 10:45
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:45
  Cheryl: That's a lot of, and so this is the process.
• 10:48
  Cheryl: What am I doing?
• 10:49
  Cheryl: Do I like this?
• 10:51
  Cheryl: You know,
• 10:51
  Christie: do they wanna try on every hat there is to try
• 10:53
  Cheryl: on yeah.
• 10:53
  Cheryl: You know, you all eat keto?
• 10:56
  Cheryl: Well, I think I'm gonna be vegan mm-hmm right.
• 10:58
  Cheryl: Just trying all these different things and mm-hmm yeah.
• 11:01
  Cheryl: Makes it complicated
• 11:03
  Danae: yeah.
• 11:03
  Danae: When you said that about keto or vegan, I mean, those are really preferences.
• 11:08
  Danae: Those aren't, you know, values necessarily.
• 11:12
  Danae: And it, it makes me think when my kids were little, I loved playing classical music.
• 11:17
  Danae: Yeah.
• 11:17
  Danae: And the, the kind of music, you know, you heard that baby Einstein makes your children smarter.
• 11:23
  Danae: so I'd always have that playing.
• 11:25
  Danae: And then I would change it to maybe just things that I preferred mm-hmm you know, and then when my youngest daughter, she knew she could kind of rule the car, cuz the older siblings were gone.
• 11:34
  Danae: You know, she.
• 11:35
  Danae: Stiff, could I play my music?
• 11:36
  Danae: And I was really struggling to connect with her.
• 11:39
  Danae: And so I would just hand her my phone and, and let her kind of look on Spotify and put what she wanted and let her have a voice, you know, with this.
• 11:49
  Danae: And wasn't my preference.
• 11:52
  Danae: A lot of the music choices she had, but you know, that wasn't a value.
• 11:56
  Christie: You really had to prioritize relationship in that situation.
• 12:00
  Christie: Mm-hmm over your musical
• 12:01
  Danae: preference.
• 12:02
  Danae: Yeah.
• 12:02
  Cheryl: so Christie, I think that's, maybe it that's part of the complication of this age is that we kind of wanted to serve everything up.
• 12:12
  Cheryl: Cuz we already talked about figuring our values out and our roadmap, but.
• 12:16
  Cheryl: This age requires us to maybe prioritize our values.
• 12:21
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm that you did value the classical music and that sort of thing.
• 12:26
  Cheryl: But because she is of this age, mm-hmm you began to.
• 12:31
  Cheryl: Say no, my deeper value, my more prioritized value is loving her and making this relationship in connection.
• 12:38
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:39
  Cheryl: And
• 12:39
  Danae: wanting to get to know her.
• 12:40
  Danae: Yeah.
• 12:40
  Danae: You know, but listening to her music and, and talking to her by and being curious about, oh, tell me what you like about this artist.
• 12:47
  Danae: What do you like about this song?
• 12:49
  Danae: Right.
• 12:49
  Danae: You know, really opened that relationship up.
• 12:52
  Danae: Mm-hmm
• 12:53
  Cheryl: Well, those are
• 12:53
  Ellen: really hard things too, because sometimes we wanna make.
• 12:57
  Ellen: Our preference is a moral choice.
• 12:59
  Ellen: Mm-hmm when they're really just really preferences.
• 13:02
  Ellen: I know I did that a lot and that was hard on my kids.
• 13:05
  Ellen: True.
• 13:06
  Ellen: I thought it was, you know, this was right and this was wrong.
• 13:09
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and if you do this, then that's wrong and morally wrong.
• 13:13
  Ellen: Where was it?
• 13:14
  Ellen: Just a
• 13:14
  Christie: preference.
• 13:15
  Christie: Right.
• 13:15
  Christie: Well, and it's hard because there are some things yeah.
• 13:17
  Christie: That you do have to say.
• 13:19
  Christie: I'm sorry, we're not, we're not going there.
• 13:21
  Christie: We're not doing
• 13:22
  Danae: this, right?
• 13:23
  Danae: Yeah.
• 13:23
  Danae: The picture I was thinking of was like a bullseye.
• 13:27
  Danae: Okay.
• 13:27
  Danae: You know, is this, we're getting to know our children, as they are getting to know themselves.
• 13:33
  Danae: And they're trying on the different hats.
• 13:35
  Danae: Mm-hmm like you were saying, we wanna be talking a lot, be very intentional about talking around topics, but still keeping, you know, that center of that bullseye things that are nonnegotiable.
• 13:48
  Danae: Right.
• 13:48
  Danae: Yeah, those are the
• 13:49
  Christie: values.
• 13:50
  Cheryl: Well, for example, like Dene was talking last time about the family value is togetherness and being together as a family mm-hmm and that is important.
• 14:00
  Cheryl: You know, I would say that was one of our values Uhhuh, but as our children begin to age mm.
• 14:07
  Cheryl: I have to hold that a little lighter, for example.
• 14:10
  Cheryl: You know, Going together as a family to church on Sunday.
• 14:14
  Cheryl: I know a lot of people know that's a value.
• 14:16
  Cheryl: We always do this, but as children age and began to want to, uh, express their individuality, I think loving and wanting, keeping a relationship with my child would enter into that as a core value.
• 14:34
  Cheryl: And.
• 14:34
  Cheryl: How can I walk in this that our relationship takes a preference
• 14:40
  Ellen: over
• 14:41
  Cheryl: a preference or that it's a lesser value?
• 14:43
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm
• 14:44
  Ellen: What, what you're saying is we really have to define what's a value and what's a preference.
• 14:49
  Ellen: Because I think that's sometimes we get that confused.
• 14:52
  Ellen: Mm-hmm that I might think it's a value that you have to do something religious or a religious thing, and you can only do it on Sunday and you have to come to church.
• 15:02
  Ellen: And if you don't come to church, then you have disrupted everything.
• 15:06
  Ellen: Mm-hmm well, as they're getting older and everyone in their family has to decide what that age is, when your children start deciding, when do I want to participate in this or not participate.
• 15:18
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and that you're relaxed about it.
• 15:20
  Ellen: Mm-hmm
• 15:21
  Cheryl: because they may say I don't hold that value
• 15:24
  Danae: right?
• 15:25
  Cheryl: Of what you believe mm-hmm or I don't know.
• 15:28
  Cheryl: I do.
• 15:29
  Cheryl: they're just trying to figure it out.
• 15:31
  Danae: Yes
• 15:32
  Cheryl: I think it's more important to have the conversation about what they believe spiritually than the superficiality of how our family chooses to express that.
• 15:43
  Cheryl: yeah.
• 15:44
  Ellen: I wanna turn everything into a rule.
• 15:46
  Ellen: Mm-hmm this is the rule.
• 15:47
  Ellen: You have to do it.
• 15:48
  Ellen: Otherwise, these are the mm-hmm consequences.
• 15:52
  Cheryl: You're really great.
• 15:53
  Cheryl: Cuz I think keeping that conversation and keeping that ground fertile to me would be a priority.
• 15:58
  Cheryl: yeah Would y'all agree mm-hmm through these years.
• 16:01
  Christie: well, what we're doing is we're working towards.
• 16:04
  Christie: A peer relationship.
• 16:05
  Christie: Mm-hmm and so just like I would appear if I disagree with something.
• 16:09
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:10
  Christie: I'm gonna eventually have to come to a place of agreeing to disagree
• 16:12
  Cheryl: with them.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm mm-hmm okay.
• 16:14
  Cheryl: So what would we do?
• 16:16
  Cheryl: Let's use the farming analogy that we want to develop.
• 16:21
  Cheryl: The crop of keeping the conversation of our relationship going.
• 16:25
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:26
  Cheryl: And so what are some ideas that you would suggest what makes the fertile ground that would help those conversations for our relationship blossom or from my side, do the most?
• 16:37
  Cheryl: I can, Well, if you have a beautiful garden,
• 16:40
  Ellen: it's because you've worked in it.
• 16:43
  Ellen: You've gone out.
• 16:43
  Ellen: You may have not spent five hours, but I know I have roses and I tend my roses every single day mm-hmm And when it's extremely hot, which can be the teenage years I have to go water my roses every day.
• 16:56
  Ellen: Mm-hmm to keep them healthy.
• 16:58
  Ellen: Mm-hmm but it's a daily tending, I think about my garden.
• 17:02
  Ellen: What does my garden need?
• 17:04
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and I think that's kind of, as our children are heading into adulthood, we should be opening up.
• 17:10
  Ellen: Am I having these conversations every day?
• 17:12
  Ellen: Are we talking?
• 17:13
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm okay.
• 17:14
  Cheryl: So what would make the fertile ground for that?
• 17:17
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:17
  Christie: I think one is being a student of your child and their environment and their own individual reality.
• 17:25
  Christie: Mm-hmm you know, what, what is their, culture and their friend group and their life at school activities, you know, what are they walking through right now?
• 17:34
  Christie: Mm-hmm and then being curious.
• 17:35
  Christie: And asking questions and listening to what the reality of their world is.
• 17:39
  Christie: Mm-hmm and why they are seeing the world through the lens that they're seeing it.
• 17:44
  Christie: Wow.
• 17:45
  Christie: I love
• 17:45
  Cheryl: the curious mm-hmm yeah.
• 17:47
  Cheryl: What a safe, fertile ground that is for a teenager to have a parent.
• 17:53
  Cheryl: When they already know your values, you've been talking about right.
• 17:56
  Cheryl: 15 years.
• 17:57
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:58
  Cheryl: But you're curious mm-hmm tell me more about that.
• 18:00
  Cheryl: Why do you like that piece of music?
• 18:02
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:02
  Cheryl: You know,
• 18:02
  Danae: yeah.
• 18:03
  Danae: Yeah.
• 18:03
  Danae: You just said it, but I, I think I'm gonna say it again because no matter who you're talking to, if you say, tell me more about that.
• 18:12
  Danae: Mm-hmm Is surprising, first of all.
• 18:15
  Danae: Oh yes.
• 18:16
  Christie: They're interested in me.
• 18:17
  Christie: They wanna hear more about what I have to say?
• 18:18
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:19
  You
• 18:19
  Danae: don't even have to really ask a question.
• 18:21
  Danae: It's just tell me, tell me more.
• 18:23
  Cheryl: I've seen with my kids.
• 18:24
  Cheryl: It has to be authentic because otherwise they think I'm setting a trap so I can bomb
• 18:31
  Christie: what they're saying.
• 18:31
  Christie: Right.
• 18:32
  Christie: We have to receive it.
• 18:33
  Christie: Well, And watch our response and
• 18:35
  Cheryl: that we're not, we're not trying to get them to give you more so you can blow it outta the water.
• 18:39
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:40
  Cheryl: Or turn it back on.
• 18:40
  Cheryl: We're
• 18:41
  Ellen: just listening.
• 18:41
  Ellen: Like we would listen to a friend.
• 18:43
  Ellen: Yes.
• 18:43
  Ellen: You know, and nod our heads.
• 18:45
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 18:45
  Ellen: That, oh yeah.
• 18:46
  Ellen: I get that.
• 18:46
  Ellen: Well, why did you think that?
• 18:48
  Ellen: Oh, okay.
• 18:49
  Ellen: But it's not accusatory.
• 18:50
  Ellen: It's not a directed conversation.
• 18:53
  Danae: Mm-hmm so it really begins.
• 18:55
  Danae: In us, this is not a formula.
• 18:58
  Danae: No, you know, we do these things.
• 19:00
  Danae: So our children will, that's not gonna work.
• 19:03
  Danae: Right.
• 19:03
  Danae: We have to.
• 19:05
  Danae: Genuinely curious,
• 19:06
  Cheryl: right?
• 19:07
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 19:07
  Cheryl: Genuineness authenticity one of the things I think.
• 19:12
  Cheryl: That would make for really good fertile soil is grace.
• 19:17
  Cheryl: Mm that's good.
• 19:18
  Cheryl: That I am extending grace to my children.
• 19:21
  Cheryl: They see me give grace to other people instead of being critical.
• 19:25
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm they see, the way I talk about other people that are.
• 19:29
  Cheryl: Or have different ideas.
• 19:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm so that they feel this is safe ground to walk on mm-hmm If they see me be critical and go, oh, we don't wanna be like that or them other, all of that.
• 19:42
  Cheryl: what if I'm thinking something that's other or different, right.
• 19:45
  Cheryl: I don't feel safe.
• 19:46
  Cheryl: His
• 19:46
  Christie: mom going to think that about me.
• 19:48
  Christie: Mm-hmm yeah.
• 19:48
  Cheryl: Well,
• 19:48
  Ellen: trustworthiness.
• 19:50
  Ellen: Okay.
• 19:50
  Ellen: Talk about that.
• 19:50
  Ellen: They need to know that if they're gonna sit down with you and it may turn into a heavy conversation that they can trust that it's not gonna turn into a big blow up fight or you're gonna get upset by their opinion.
• 20:01
  Ellen: Mm-hmm cause you don't agree with them and that they have the freedom to express what they're thinking and feeling.
• 20:07
  Ellen: Without judgment.
• 20:08
  Ellen: Mm-hmm now you may in your head go.
• 20:10
  Ellen: I don't really like what they're saying.
• 20:12
  Ellen: Mm-hmm but sometimes you just have to be quiet.
• 20:14
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:14
  Ellen: And listen to what
• 20:15
  Christie: they're saying, Manay.
• 20:16
  Christie: What you said about the work begins in us is really true with that Ellen.
• 20:22
  Christie: Like we have to not take it personally.
• 20:24
  Christie: Not, not think that it's a reflection of our own yeah.
• 20:27
  Christie: Parenting or
• 20:29
  Ellen: that we somehow failed, cuz they didn't line up with our values or whatever we think it is at that moment.
• 20:35
  Cheryl: and I think key in all of this is don't take it personally.
• 20:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm yes.
• 20:39
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:40
  Ellen: always, I mean, just say that about every 5 cents in share
• 20:44
  Danae: why do we take it personally?
• 20:46
  Cheryl: We
• 20:46
  Ellen: invested, right.
• 20:47
  Ellen: most of us have invested a lot of time and energy and love into our children and whether we realize it or not, we wanna return.
• 20:57
  Christie: Right.
• 20:57
  Christie: You know?
• 20:57
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:58
  Christie: And fear.
• 20:59
  Christie: I mean, fear, fear.
• 21:01
  Christie: If I.
• 21:02
  Christie: Them go down this path.
• 21:04
  Christie: Mm-hmm mm-hmm what could happen and what will people think of me?
• 21:07
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm oh, that's a bad one.
• 21:09
  Cheryl: Yeah, Yeah.
• 21:11
  Cheryl: Now in this conversation, we're not suggesting that you support something.
• 21:16
  Cheryl: That you don't believe in?
• 21:17
  Cheryl: Mm, because we had to be genuine, authentic.
• 21:20
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm you know, if they say, I think it's okay to cheat on your income tax, I'm choosing something simple.
• 21:24
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:25
  Cheryl: or maybe they're saying, well, in school everybody's cheating on the test.
• 21:29
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm yeah.
• 21:29
  Cheryl: I would be so careful how I spoke into that and handled it.
• 21:34
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm just listening particularly, I would say.
• 21:38
  Cheryl: The older, they get the less, I would say my percentage of input.
• 21:43
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm you know, you know, Ellen you've said so many times your kids always say, we, mom, we know what you think mm-hmm you know, mm-hmm, mm-hmm so we've verbalized it.
• 21:53
  Cheryl: But I want that percentage of saying, what I think is going down and down and down as my kids get older mm-hmm so I can just do a lot of listening
• 22:03
  Danae: because like with the cheating on the test, would you rather your child come to you and say, everybody's cheating on the test and mom, I cheated to, and they go on and on and on.
• 22:13
  Danae: And they know that you're a safe place and you're not gonna just immediately, you know, pound down on them and say, that was wrong.
• 22:21
  Danae: You shouldn't have done that.
• 22:22
  Danae: Well, next time, they're probably not gonna share with you.
• 22:25
  Danae: Yeah, what we really wanna cultivate is that garden, like you're saying to where they have the ability to reflect and search themselves and what are their values cheating on the test at 16, you know, I mean, this is a character issue that's being developed in them and.
• 22:48
  Danae: They're watching us, we're modeling to them about these issues.
• 22:53
  Danae: And we're
• 22:53
  Ellen: showing our values.
• 22:54
  Ellen: We to get to know themselves.
• 22:55
  Ellen: Right.
• 22:56
  Ellen: Because, you know, it's like, oh, you know, in a, in a non explosive way.
• 23:00
  Ellen: Well, why did you feel like you needed to cheat?
• 23:02
  Ellen: Did you forget to study?
• 23:04
  Ellen: Or, you know, did you just feel the pressure of everybody, you know, so asking and then that helps them to know themselves too, because we all have to be introspective.
• 23:13
  Ellen: I have to ask myself, why did I do that?
• 23:16
  Ellen: Mm-hmm why did I eat that?
• 23:17
  Ellen: Why did I.
• 23:18
  Ellen: Pick this up.
• 23:19
  Ellen: Right.
• 23:19
  Ellen: You know, those are the important, things let's
• 23:22
  Cheryl: see, Ellen, that excellent for you to be able to ask them that question about why did you feel you needed to cheat, you would have to have such ground where they didn't feel defensive but that they feel this is safe ground to walk on mm-hmm you could have a real conversation letting'em talk about it without shutting'em down.
• 23:44
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and at the same time not affirming an action, right?
• 23:47
  Cheryl: That's not right.
• 23:49
  Cheryl: Well,
• 23:49
  Christie: and I think the more often that we can do that, we are building relational equity so that when we get to those bullseye moments that we do have to say.
• 23:57
  Christie: You know, I have to give you a consequence for this.
• 23:59
  Christie: Right.
• 24:00
  Christie: And they can agree with us and say, yeah, I knew you probably would have to.
• 24:04
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Christie: You know, and, and it's, we're doing this for them in their growth because we've already had all right.
• 24:09
  Christie: Exactly.
• 24:10
  Christie: Yes.
• 24:10
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:11
  Christie: And they're not always gonna skip whistling away from, you know, the conversation, but I think there's a respect that's built there when, when it's a mutual respect.
• 24:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 24:22
  Cheryl: You know, and I love your word respect mm-hmm because.
• 24:25
  Cheryl: A lot of the things that they're gonna be espousing, they're gonna be talking about.
• 24:29
  Cheryl: They're gonna think is cool.
• 24:31
  Cheryl: We.
• 24:32
  Cheryl: A lot of times think is really dumb.
• 24:34
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm okay.
• 24:35
  Cheryl: But to show the respect of it, you talked about knowing their culture to show respect to the music that they like or whatever it is.
• 24:43
  Cheryl: They're talking about that instead of going, oh yeah.
• 24:46
  Cheryl: Like you and your little friends or, oh, that music mm-hmm that whatever dismissive attitude instead of showing respect, like I hope I would do with a full grown adult.
• 24:58
  Cheryl: That's saying something I disagree with mm-hmm right.
• 25:00
  Cheryl: That whether it's political spectrum of whatever mm-hmm I would want to show them respect mm-hmm instead of be dismissive mm-hmm because my core value is to try and love others.
• 25:09
  Cheryl: Well, mm-hmm and that I would do that even when my kids think purple eyebrows is really, really cool.
• 25:17
  Cheryl: Right.
• 25:18
  Cheryl: I might disagree, but.
• 25:20
  Cheryl: I don't have to be dismissive about it.
• 25:22
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm
• 25:22
  Ellen: mm-hmm well, there's a saying don't major on the minors.
• 25:25
  Ellen: Oh yeah.
• 25:25
  Ellen: You know, cuz sometimes we can get really caught up especially with teenagers, making the minor things that really you later on you realize that was so an important, you know, and we major on those and we forget let's let's keep those core values really small and tight and all of this is fluff they may have purple hair for a month or two that's just, what's in style now Yeah.
• 25:49
  Ellen: So that's, that's a silly minor thing, but that really is how it is, you know, your, your kid thinks they're so cool at that moment.
• 25:54
  Christie: Right.
• 25:56
  Cheryl: Ellen.
• 25:57
  Cheryl: those are the easier ones you know, and those are preferences, yeah.
• 26:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:02
  Cheryl: but it's when we're talking about a core value or belief system, and that's when they're pushing back or they are embracing something mm-hmm that is extremely valuable.
• 26:14
  Cheryl: To what I believe in my life.
• 26:16
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm that's when it's really hard.
• 26:19
  Ellen: That is hard.
• 26:20
  Ellen: I know.
• 26:20
  Ellen: I think about years ago, somebody taught me this illustration, um, that a relationship is a bridge and that I have a bridge with my teen or my children or whoever mm-hmm and my only responsibilities keep mind of the bridge clear mm-hmm oh, so that there's not all this junk that when that person wants to come to me and talk to me.
• 26:42
  Ellen: Hear me and conversate with me.
• 26:44
  Ellen: They're not tripping over all this stuff.
• 26:47
  Ellen: That doesn't matter.
• 26:48
  Ellen: That doesn't matter.
• 26:49
  Ellen: Mm-hmm I can't control their side of the bridge, but I can keep my side clear.
• 26:53
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 26:53
  Ellen: And that's always, to me, if I don't like someone or I have a struggle with them, or, you know, I'm irritated with them, I'm like, well, obviously there's something in me.
• 27:02
  Ellen: That's bugging me about this person.
• 27:04
  Ellen: So I need to look and see what's on my side of the bridge.
• 27:08
  Ellen: I can't make them have relationship with me, but I gotta make the way clear for
• 27:11
  Christie: them.
• 27:12
  Christie: Mm-hmm that's such a good illustration.
• 27:14
  Christie: I was just thinking too, that, um, you know, one of our kids are saying, or doing, or their opinions are today is really a snapshot of today.
• 27:23
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:24
  Christie: And so there will be the time that they.
• 27:27
  Christie: We'll start wanting to come down the bridge closer to our side.
• 27:31
  Christie: And so for us to be the grown adult in the situation yes.
• 27:34
  Christie: And to have our side of the bridge clear, that's just a lot of wisdom.
• 27:37
  Cheryl: Did we already mention, don't take it personally.
• 27:40
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 27:42
  Christie: could we change the name of the podcast?
• 27:45
  Christie: That's a, yeah,
• 27:46
  Ellen: that's a
• 27:46
  Cheryl: great one.
• 27:46
  Cheryl: I like that.
• 27:47
  Cheryl: You know, because they're gonna take it all personally.
• 27:50
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and that we need to remember.
• 27:52
  Cheryl: That's good.
• 27:53
  Cheryl: It's very personal to them.
• 27:55
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm so that's why we wanna show respect and grace mm-hmm mm-hmm walk with a minute clear what we can.
• 28:03
  Cheryl: And even if it comes down to a core values, still not take it personally.
• 28:07
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and that's so easier said than that, because I think we can all relate I mean, I remember many times, so I just went to my room.
• 28:13
  Ellen: Mm-hmm you know, cuz it's like, I don't know how I don't take this personally.
• 28:17
  Cheryl: Christie, You said something One time about their choices and my parenting.
• 28:21
  Cheryl: What was it?
• 28:22
  Cheryl: You said It was so good It's one of those quotes.
• 28:25
  Cheryl: I want to carry around with me.
• 28:26
  Christie: Well, it's my, my children's choices are not necessarily a reflection on my parenting.
• 28:33
  Christie: Wow Well, especially when we're talking about, like you said, Cheryl, like.
• 28:37
  Christie: Our values that we've been instilling in our family for these early years, are the things most precious to us?
• 28:45
  Christie: Yes.
• 28:45
  Christie: Yes.
• 28:46
  Christie: And to have another person look at you and say, I don't value what you value mm-hmm does feel personal.
• 28:53
  Christie: Yes.
• 28:54
  Christie: But at this age, it really isn't.
• 28:57
  Christie: Well, and
• 28:57
  Ellen: sometimes it is, but we have to give that to our teenagers as their immaturity.
• 29:02
  Ellen: Mm-hmm you know, that they'll be some point where they will be a little more reflective.
• 29:07
  Ellen: Maybe they will come back and Maybe they won't.
• 29:10
  Ellen: Right.
• 29:10
  Ellen: Right.
• 29:10
  Cheryl: Well, but they.
• 29:13
  Cheryl: Take on an entire value system, a belief system that, yeah, we don't agree with it true or a lifestyle that's actively in opposition to what I hold as core true values.
• 29:24
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm but I want whatever they're doing or walking in, I want that bridge cleared to keep a relationship mm-hmm and to love them.
• 29:34
  Cheryl: we're talking about our job.
• 29:36
  Cheryl: To make that fertile feel.
• 29:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm for the relationship we wanna open up, we wanna clear that bridge off, but it there's no guarantee they're gonna ever walk across that bridge.
• 29:46
  Cheryl: Right,
• 29:46
  Christie: right.
• 29:46
  Christie: Mm-hmm and we shouldn't be so results driven.
• 29:50
  Christie: I mean, that, just, that that's good.
• 29:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:51
  Christie: That statement of, Hey, everything.
• 29:54
  Christie: Okay.
• 29:54
  Christie: Just that question.
• 29:56
  Christie: Some of my girls aren't.
• 29:57
  Christie: Talkers at first on certain topics.
• 29:59
  Christie: Mm-hmm And so, but knowing that I see them mm-hmm would mean a lot to them rather than, well, I gave it a try and she didn't talk and you know, it wasn't even worth the effort.
• 30:09
  Cheryl: I'm telling you that core value of loving others is messy, messy, isn't it?
• 30:14
  Cheryl: You know, but this is.
• 30:16
  Cheryl: at all negative.
• 30:18
  Cheryl: This is the excitement.
• 30:20
  Cheryl: It's free a living relationship.
• 30:21
  Cheryl: It's freeing.
• 30:22
  Cheryl: And that's what We wanna work on mm-hmm right.
• 30:25
  Cheryl: Yeah,
• 30:25
  Danae: because this stage is about releasing, you know, we talk about that a lot.
• 30:29
  Danae: Those training years are kind of in the past and now.
• 30:34
  Danae: we can spend our time getting to know them, listening to them and this fertile ground, Cheryl, that you, you talk about and they're not
• 30:41
  Ellen: a finished product.
• 30:43
  Ellen: Right.
• 30:43
  Ellen: You know, we kind of tend to think that way.
• 30:45
  Ellen: Okay.
• 30:45
  Ellen: They're 18 or they're 21.
• 30:47
  Ellen: They're launching, they're a finished product.
• 30:50
  Ellen: Just like we're not finished.
• 30:51
  Ellen: Mm-hmm we're still growing.
• 30:52
  Ellen: We're still learning.
• 30:54
  Ellen: And you know, I will be different when I'm 90 than I am now.
• 30:58
  Ellen: So that's just how humans are.
• 31:01
  Ellen: And to think that we go in the oven.
• 31:03
  Ellen: Are baked and we are pulled out and we're done.
• 31:06
  Ellen: That's not it mm-hmm Yeah, I think
• 31:07
  Christie: that's a really good point that we aren't finished products either.
• 31:11
  Christie: Mm-hmm mm-hmm that, um, in that humility, sometimes we have to come back and apologize to our kids.
• 31:17
  Christie: I think that's just another way to keep those conversations going and being honest with our kids.
• 31:22
  Christie: Yeah.
• 31:23
  Cheryl: Oh, this is fabulous conversation, but we're out of time.
• 31:27
  Danae: I feel like there is so much more like I really wanna address, you know, those times when these teenagers, so we've set the fertile ground or, or maybe we really haven't, but that the 14 year olds, the teenagers are really making decisions and really pushing back on us on the, those, the bulls eyes and the, the center of the targets, those family values.
• 31:48
  Danae: Yeah.
• 31:49
  Danae: Um,
• 31:49
  Christie: yeah, let's come back and talk about it next time.
• 31:51
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm let's come back in and let's talk about maybe some more practical things of what to walk through, how to heal it when they do.
• 32:00
  Cheryl: taking picture values over the edge of that bridge.
• 32:03
  Cheryl: Right?
• 32:03
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm
• 32:03
  Danae: Yeah.
• 32:04
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 32:04
  Cheryl: Um, later on this month, I'm gonna interview Dr.
• 32:07
  Cheryl: Stevens and we're gonna talk about adolescent.
• 32:10
  Cheryl: So this is for all ages, but particularly preteen all the way up.
• 32:16
  Cheryl: I, I wanna stay in a relationship with my grandchildren.
• 32:19
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 32:19
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm And so let's come back and talk about it some more.
• 32:22
  Cheryl: You too.
• 32:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 32:22
  Cheryl: Good.
• 32:23
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 32:23
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 32:24
  Cheryl: Until then parents remember hang in there.
• 32:27
  Cheryl: Keep loving.
• 32:29
  Cheryl: keep persevering because it's worth it.