Latest / Sessions Canceled / Sometimes You Gotta Stop Players Talking: Ep. 192

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Sometimes You Gotta Stop Players Talking: Ep. 192 · Sessions Canceled

• 0:15
  Up, everybody, the GM told the players.
• 0:18
  Well, ask the players nicely if we could cut the scene a little
• 0:22
  short because they were starting to get really uncomfortable
• 0:24
  about how they were describing their love life.
• 0:29
  And the players got weirdly mad and the GM felt like it was kind
• 0:33
  of a reasonable question. Then there was some arguing
• 0:35
  going back and forth and the GM is like, you know what, I'll see
• 0:38
  y'all next week. Everybody got cooled down, South
• 0:39
  sessions cancelled and everybody's a little
• 0:41
  uncomfortable now. I made it sound like we're going
• 0:48
  to be talking about that something weird sexy role play
• 0:52
  related. Not not actually going to be the
• 0:56
  case. I, you know, semi related I.
• 1:03
  I am low key a little bit. I am low key.
• 1:06
  The the cause of that something like that happening at a table.
• 1:14
  How? What?
• 1:15
  OK, I think I've told this story before.
• 1:17
  So it was on the the eponymous game that blew up at the home
• 1:20
  stretch and wait. Wait, wait, wait.
• 1:24
  Which? Which eponymous game that bloat?
• 1:25
  Wait, the the Ragnarok 1? The Ragnarok.
• 1:30
  One Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:31
  OK. And we were at the town where
• 1:35
  everything blew up, right, like the town with the black dragon
• 1:38
  or whatever. And my character who was gay saw
• 1:43
  this like like Twinkie half elf who was like staring him down.
• 1:48
  And in my head I was like, this character is suspicious.
• 1:52
  I had no, I had no mean thoughts in my head to the contrary other
• 1:58
  than I can interrogate this person for information.
• 2:01
  So I go up and talk to that character after the like, Lord
• 2:04
  of the town has done his speech or whatever, and the character's
• 2:09
  like, oh, can we talk somewhere more private?
• 2:12
  And I was like, am I going to get stabbed?
• 2:16
  At this point I'm still not thinking it's going to go sexy
• 2:19
  and we get to a place. And the character full on
• 2:22
  straddles my character's waist. And I'm like, oh, I see.
• 2:27
  And like, the GM is kind of like playing coy with it.
• 2:30
  I'm like, oh, no, no, no, you've done this.
• 2:34
  Now I have to go overboard. So my character, I described my
• 2:40
  character's like snake in his hands, up his thighs and like
• 2:44
  lower bag. And he's like, OK, wait.
• 2:46
  I was like, no, you did this. What?
• 2:51
  You you didn't have to escalate like that though.
• 2:53
  No, I did though. I did though.
• 2:56
  I, I I don't. Did you?
• 2:58
  Yes, that feels like quite the escalation.
• 3:01
  Look, he could have been like he sits next to you, he takes your
• 3:05
  hand. Not that he just fall on starts
• 3:07
  grinding. I'm like I well now I have to
• 3:10
  go. Why?
• 3:13
  Why? Why did the GM do this?
• 3:16
  Basically the the twink character was going to try to
• 3:18
  like try to seduce and then poison like poison me.
• 3:24
  But I rolled really high on A, on A, a perception, B
• 3:28
  persuasion, and the character told me his whole plan and then
• 3:32
  he was like. You're not going to, you're not
• 3:35
  going to kill me, right? And I was like, well.
• 3:40
  That depends on the next 10 to 30 minutes.
• 3:45
  How? How far did you get before the
• 3:48
  GM cut you off? The the the snaking hands up
• 3:51
  thighs thing was as far as it got descriptively, but no, I I
• 3:56
  ended up did like. Absolutely.
• 3:58
  Done, smashed that elf and then my actions caused the domino
• 4:02
  effect where every other player character in the game smashed
• 4:07
  the same day. Oh.
• 4:10
  And how? What?
• 4:12
  Because everybody's like, well, if he's doing it, I'm doing it.
• 4:17
  One character smashed to dragon, the other one seduced to the
• 4:21
  fucking vizier lady of the Lord. One one person went to, you
• 4:28
  know, 1 character went to his other dragon mistress because
• 4:31
  there was two of those for some reason.
• 4:33
  And then the funniest one, the funniest one truly to me was
• 4:38
  Moogie being like, where's Brett's character?
• 4:41
  I'm finna smash because he was. So I'm.
• 4:44
  Sorry, what? Yes, her like 4 foot 10.
• 4:51
  Her like 4 foot 10. What was she?
• 4:55
  Not was she an eladrin? I think she was an eladrin or
• 4:59
  something. No, no Jinasi.
• 5:03
  She was a Jinasi was like. I'm going to find the damn near
• 5:06
  7 foot tall T fling barbarian and I'm finna smash.
• 5:11
  That is, what did Brett say? Well, he wasn't there, so we had
• 5:17
  to call him and ask for consent, OK.
• 5:21
  That's unhinged behavior, but. Because everybody was like, this
• 5:24
  is the funniest thing. And I went, wait, hold on, we
• 5:28
  should call Brad about that because that could be a serious
• 5:30
  violation of his character's agency.
• 5:32
  And everyone's like, fair that that's a good idea.
• 5:34
  That's a good idea. So I called him.
• 5:36
  He was at a gig. He was on a a break during a
• 5:39
  gig. And I was like, hey, hey, Lula
• 5:41
  wants to smash Tobias. Are you good with that?
• 5:43
  And he was like, like, sure, fuck it, I guess.
• 5:46
  And we were like, all right, we're good to go, people.
• 5:48
  We got the green light. I, I, I really like that you,
• 5:54
  you said that and everyone had a brief moment of like, oh, that's
• 5:57
  a good point. We didn't think of that like
• 5:59
  y'all. Yeah, yeah, I know they relax.
• 6:02
  The animal behavior was abound that night and then for the rest
• 6:06
  of the like 2 months that the campaign ran we just referred to
• 6:10
  that day as Welcome to Fuck Down He.
• 6:14
  Also, I I referred to that place as Fucktown to my GM's dismay.
• 6:18
  I bet, yeah, I was going to say, I bet the GM had major regrets
• 6:22
  about that one. Absolutely.
• 6:26
  So you just reminded me I was this.
• 6:29
  I was watching XP to level threes.
• 6:33
  They were doing an actual play of Pathfinder.
• 6:35
  This is quite a while ago. I didn't end up keeping up with
• 6:37
  the that actual play, but there was a scene where Jacob's
• 6:43
  character just just like out of nowhere was like, anyway, me and
• 6:49
  I can't remember what the other character was like Sever
• 6:54
  Severin, I think his name was Severin.
• 6:55
  He was like, anyway, me and Severin are just going to go
• 6:57
  smash now and everyone's like, what?
• 7:02
  And he was just like, yeah, that's the thing that happens.
• 7:05
  And the other player who's like, yeah, all right, just like
• 7:10
  rolled with it. And I don't know if he told her
• 7:13
  ahead of time like, I'm gonna do this thing or not, but like, she
• 7:17
  rolled into it so seamlessly. I was like, wow, what the fuck?
• 7:21
  That's pretty amazing. And then there was a really good
• 7:24
  scene where like the next morning, Jacob's character and
• 7:29
  the character he smashed like walk out of the room.
• 7:32
  And James's character's like, hey, y'all was good.
• 7:35
  And everyone else is like, So what?
• 7:39
  What happened, bud? He was like.
• 7:40
  Oh, that goes yeah. And he was like, oh, you know,
• 7:43
  it'd be like that sometimes. Like Jacob's character did not
• 7:48
  even try to like, obscure what happened.
• 7:50
  And the other player was like, I'm not talking about this.
• 7:55
  Like they, they're like so separate.
• 7:57
  What happened that I was like, we're not bringing this up.
• 8:01
  OK, I had AI have another small story.
• 8:02
  I was like, oh that's crazy. In the first campaign, Ant was
• 8:08
  in it. And he was playing a a like non
• 8:13
  binary courtesan right, OK. Yeah, so dangerous territory.
• 8:18
  Yeah, yeah. So playing a courtesan, my
• 8:20
  character was like, I mean, I might be a witch hunter, but
• 8:26
  technically I'm not a priest, so.
• 8:30
  And they were like. OK, so we had gotten to the the
• 8:34
  eponymous werewolf town, right? Oh God.
• 8:37
  And first night there I was staying with Astor's character,
• 8:42
  my character. They were like rooming together.
• 8:44
  And I was like, hey, do a brother favor, don't come back
• 8:48
  for like an hour. You did the college roommate
• 8:52
  maneuver. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:55
  Here's where it gets funny because Ant's character Marina
• 8:59
  had a sentient cursed dragon sword that spoke it could speak
• 9:05
  telepathically to anyone who's ever held it, not just the
• 9:09
  current attuned user. So sword it's up astern is like
• 9:15
  get beat the fuck out of here. That's.
• 9:19
  Pretty funny actually. He's like, OK, so I have to do
• 9:22
  the walk of shame, open the door as quietly as possible, and I.
• 9:27
  Slipped the sword out. Here's the thing, I was like
• 9:29
  brother here, unfortunately for you I've got a 25 passive
• 9:32
  perception so I turned my head and make eye contact.
• 9:39
  And Oh no. And Esther was like, why?
• 9:43
  Why would you do that to me that.
• 9:46
  Curse not the eye. You didn't have to describe the
• 9:50
  eye contact. That's unhinged, brother.
• 9:52
  What the fuck? Well, because I was like, do you
• 9:55
  actually try to sneak? And he's like, I'm, I mean, I
• 9:57
  try. I was like, well brother, tell
• 9:59
  you what, I got a 25 pass. You got to be there 22 you.
• 10:02
  Ain't sneaking pass shit. Yeah, no.
• 10:07
  Oh my God. Oh my goodness.
• 10:11
  And then the next day my character was like, hey, he's
• 10:14
  like, don't talk to me for the next two days.
• 10:17
  I can't. I just can't I.
• 10:18
  Can't he? Literally, he was like, my
• 10:20
  characters put sand up and he's like, I can't look at you right
• 10:23
  now. And I was like, that's Fire Dog.
• 10:25
  Yeah, no, entirely fair. Oh my God, you know, never had
• 10:31
  any. Never have any fucking in any of
• 10:33
  my games. Really.
• 10:36
  No, wait. No, yeah, no, wait.
• 10:39
  Brett, Brett. And beyond the guns, he smashed
• 10:41
  the orc. He did smash the orc.
• 10:45
  He did. Smash the orc.
• 10:46
  You kept pushing him to smash the orc.
• 10:49
  I. Was doing it as a bit.
• 10:50
  I didn't think Brett would actually go for it.
• 10:53
  I look, you know, here's the thing that you have to remember
• 10:55
  about Brett. If you push him enough, he's
• 10:57
  going to commit to any bit. I guess yeah, that's true.
• 11:02
  I'm trying to think was there any other?
• 11:03
  I feel like was it wait the whole thing with?
• 11:08
  Stars with with the the fucking cults and the prostitutes.
• 11:11
  No, they didn't bang the strippers.
• 11:13
  They just brought them into the church.
• 11:17
  Yeah. What?
• 11:21
  Yeah, no, that game was very not horny.
• 11:26
  I did have. I'm not upset.
• 11:27
  I'm like actually. I'm impressed.
• 11:29
  Yeah I also had in in Apocalypse World.
• 11:32
  I did have two characters Bang too.
• 11:34
  That was awkward. That was my friend and my
• 11:37
  ex-girlfriend. That was a weird one.
• 11:39
  Oh no. Shouldn't have let it happen.
• 11:42
  Don't know why I did. I look, you know, I had
• 11:48
  something similar happen with a friend and my ex Fred and I.
• 11:52
  I understand where you're coming from.
• 11:55
  I understand like how that gets a little awkward.
• 11:59
  Yes. Yeah, I guess what it gets, it
• 12:03
  gets even worse if you have to role play playing your ex's
• 12:06
  significant other. That one.
• 12:08
  Oh no, I'm doing. That right now.
• 12:12
  Oh, that's true. That's true.
• 12:13
  You are doing that right now, aren't you?
• 12:15
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 12:17
  And. I have a girlfriend now so it's
• 12:19
  not a problem for me anymore. Like the baggage just pretty
• 12:23
  much let itself go, but. There is still some weirdness
• 12:26
  though. A little bit there.
• 12:28
  There were some spots before last July where I was like, I
• 12:32
  don't know if I can do this anymore.
• 12:33
  Yes, it's fair. It's.
• 12:34
  Better now though. You know, maybe we should just
• 12:37
  do a talking about horny on main type shit and games at some
• 12:40
  point. I'm, I'm down.
• 12:43
  I mean, I have to repeat those two stories.
• 12:44
  That's some of my best material, but I'm that's.
• 12:46
  Fair, that's fair. Anyway, So what are we actually
• 12:50
  talking about? I mean, it's semi related to the
• 12:53
  weird sex in game situation. Actually kind of we're talking
• 13:02
  about when do you cut the role play short?
• 13:06
  When do you cut it off? When do you say like, all right,
• 13:08
  we're done. Or, or at the very least, if not
• 13:12
  cut it short, bring it to a close.
• 13:13
  I guess is another way you could phrase it because cut and short
• 13:17
  implied it didn't. It didn't reach a conclusion.
• 13:19
  But you know, sometimes it reaches A conclusion.
• 13:21
  Then you just got to like, all right, we're done.
• 13:25
  Yeah, So I, I last session, I was feeling like I not, not, I
• 13:36
  was going to say I was feeling like I was letting things
• 13:38
  meander too much, but that's not entirely true.
• 13:41
  I think last session I just was, I was teetering on the edge of
• 13:45
  like, all right, are we still having productive role play or
• 13:53
  are we just kind of meandering around doing nothing here?
• 13:58
  You know what I mean? Like I was right on that cusp
• 14:01
  last session. I don't know if you guys felt
• 14:05
  like that on a player's side, but I was.
• 14:06
  I was feeling that a little bit mentally.
• 14:08
  I I didn't. I'm curious to know at what
• 14:13
  point you started to feel that way.
• 14:21
  I have to think about it. Oh wait, brother, you can't.
• 14:27
  You can't make a whole topic about it and not have a fucking.
• 14:29
  Specific, Well, well, 'cause it was kind of a vibe through the
• 14:33
  whole session. It was kind of like I was
• 14:34
  teetering on the edge of the whole session.
• 14:36
  So I'm trying to think about what specific things set.
• 14:38
  It set me off a little bit. It's not, it wasn't so much a
• 14:41
  moment. I guess it was mostly when you
• 14:47
  guys were talking to, to the sires in the house that you're
• 14:54
  staying in, in the like elf village.
• 14:58
  And you were kind of, you started to ask about some of
• 15:01
  their like, you know, some of the how their faith works type
• 15:05
  of questions. And at a certain point I was
• 15:08
  like, OK, are they just overly humoring me here?
• 15:13
  And is this kind of a waste of time?
• 15:16
  You know what I mean? That makes sense.
• 15:21
  Sorta. So here's The funny thing.
• 15:24
  We talked. The reason why I did that very
• 15:27
  specifically was because you were like, well, I wrote all
• 15:30
  this lore and none of the characters are super interested
• 15:32
  in that lore. So I was like, well, I, I
• 15:36
  Isaiah, I'm interested in this lore.
• 15:38
  Goro usually doesn't give a fuck.
• 15:41
  But now I can sort of, you know, have my cake and eat it too.
• 15:46
  I can force Goro to give a shit about it, so it's not
• 15:49
  necessarily to humor you, it's to finally get what I want in a
• 15:53
  diegetic way that my character would actually give a shit
• 15:55
  about. What?
• 15:57
  What made the framing of it different that you felt like
• 16:00
  your character would give a shit about it in that scenario?
• 16:03
  Because he, he knows these people a little bit more now and
• 16:08
  it's a really casual, like, it's hard to get more casual than
• 16:11
  like the morning after a party, you know?
• 16:14
  True. So it's a situation where where
• 16:19
  Goro is feeling generally curious enough to ask these
• 16:25
  questions when he typically doesn't like, not that he
• 16:27
  doesn't care, but they don't. He doesn't feel like they
• 16:30
  pertain to him. So he just kind of lets things
• 16:32
  rock now. It's kind of like a well, the
• 16:35
  icebreaker of us getting a hammer together has come and
• 16:38
  gone, and now I feel more comfortable asking this
• 16:40
  questions that I again, usually wouldn't care that much for.
• 16:46
  Fair enough. Ultimately, yes.
• 16:48
  It was not to humor you, it was to humor myself so I can make
• 16:51
  Goro do what I want to some degree.
• 16:54
  Well, so I was the the the main thing that I was trying to
• 17:00
  balance is it was just that idea of I don't want the players to
• 17:06
  be doing something only with the objective of humoring me because
• 17:10
  I brought something up one time or whatever 'cause I had
• 17:12
  mentioned it both to you and Sam.
• 17:14
  So I was like, all right, is this just Isaiah and Sam
• 17:17
  humoring me here? You know what I mean?
• 17:21
  So I was trying to be cognizant of it and being like, all right,
• 17:26
  let me keep keep the feelers out for if we're getting to the
• 17:31
  point of just kind of going in circles, not getting anywhere or
• 17:34
  anything like that. You know what I mean?
• 17:35
  Like, let me just be aware. And then after that point, once
• 17:44
  you guys got back to the city, I was kind of like, all right, I
• 17:48
  want the players to be able to prepare in some fashion.
• 17:51
  So I don't want the role play stuff to get in the way too
• 17:53
  much, mostly because of time constraint.
• 17:56
  So like, I'm going to try and not keep it rolling too long,
• 18:01
  you know? Yeah, I guess you there.
• 18:05
  The, the thing that I would say is I, I don't feel like the, the
• 18:10
  role play ever went in circles because I like, I, I have that
• 18:14
  problem a little bit in my campaign where characters will
• 18:15
  sort of go in circles, literally talk in circles where like.
• 18:19
  That's in my. That's in my notes.
• 18:21
  One character will establish their belief and then someone
• 18:25
  else will establish their belief and then they won't actually
• 18:29
  like, they'll, they'll question each other's beliefs, but not
• 18:31
  really in a way that forces a, a, a shift, you know what I
• 18:37
  mean? They'll sort of talk around each
• 18:38
  other's points, which can be fun if 2 characters are being
• 18:42
  obstinate. But sometimes it it does drag
• 18:44
  for, you know, 1520 minutes. And yeah.
• 18:48
  Yeah, they literally do not end this the the conversation any
• 18:51
  differently than it started. Right.
• 18:56
  I'm not. I'm not saying we hit that point
• 19:00
  last session. I was just, I was getting that
• 19:03
  Spidey tingle that like my spider sense was going off that
• 19:07
  we were, we were approaching that territory potentially.
• 19:11
  So I was just trying to kind of keep my eye on it the whole
• 19:15
  time, you know what I mean? So what?
• 19:19
  Yeah. So that's the kind of scenario
• 19:23
  I'm talking about. And to sort of, well, before we
• 19:30
  do that, hit follow, subscribe on your podcast platform of
• 19:33
  choice. OK.
• 19:36
  Did you did you, did you do what?
• 19:38
  No. OK, hold on.
• 19:39
  I'll wait. Yeah.
• 19:43
  OK. We're good.
• 19:44
  OK. So every every GM knows this
• 19:49
  feeling, whether you recognize it or not.
• 19:52
  You know this feeling, right? The players are having a back
• 19:55
  and forth in character or they're talking to one of your
• 19:58
  MPCS and they're just, you know, they're really grilling them
• 20:01
  about some lore or whatever. It's going well and all.
• 20:05
  But also you did a lot of prep work this week and like, you
• 20:09
  really wanted to get to the cool war scene and the boss fight
• 20:12
  with the demonic general and his sick evil sword named Angel
• 20:15
  Ripper. So now you kind of have this
• 20:17
  feeling of like tension or uncomfortableness because you
• 20:21
  want to get to the thing you did.
• 20:23
  Prepped So then you say yourself, do you cut things
• 20:27
  short to get to the combat stuff you prepped or do you let this
• 20:33
  role play stuff kind of rock because your players are getting
• 20:35
  into it right now? And is the reason really, is
• 20:40
  there even really an answer to this problem?
• 20:42
  No, of course not. Like always, it's on a case by
• 20:47
  case basis where you have to make calls based on what's in
• 20:50
  front of you. So rather than just saying do X
• 20:53
  or do Y or whatever, let's instead let's have a little bit
• 20:56
  of a system here. I'm not even going to claim that
• 21:00
  this is like a particularly amazing or complex system or
• 21:02
  anything like that, but this is just kind of something I keep in
• 21:06
  mind when I'm trying to decide what to do.
• 21:10
  When you're getting to that point where you feel like maybe
• 21:13
  the role play is dragging or going on too long, or it's
• 21:16
  getting kind of like loop de loop.
• 21:20
  I will say as a little bit of addendum to this, part of the
• 21:24
  reason too, that I was feeling a little bit of that tension with
• 21:26
  the role play is 'cause I did do a lot of prepping the previous
• 21:31
  week to have a bunch of stuff ready to rock that we actually
• 21:34
  didn't get to, but we got right up to the edge.
• 21:37
  Which is fine 'cause it means I don't have to prep very much
• 21:39
  this week, if at all. But that was the other reason.
• 21:42
  It was partially on my brain, 'cause, you know, you prep the
• 21:48
  sick dungeon in the sick boss fight and then your players
• 21:50
  never get to the goddamn dungeon.
• 21:51
  You're just kind of like, you know, that kind of shit.
• 21:56
  So I'll tell you what I I've definitely I, I've been there.
• 22:00
  I usually err on the side of if my players do want to like faff
• 22:05
  for two hours. Like yes I typically do get a
• 22:08
  little bummed but then I'm like oh I don't got to do shit for
• 22:11
  next week so that usually is enough to stop me from feeling.
• 22:14
  That is kind of the trade off, right?
• 22:15
  Like, OK, next week I don't have to prep as much.
• 22:17
  I have lots of stuff banked up. That's good.
• 22:19
  Which is an entirely valid trade off.
• 22:24
  But yeah, it it, it is one of those things that kind of worms
• 22:28
  into the back of your brain. Now, of course, ultimately what
• 22:36
  we're talking about here is a matter of pacing, right?
• 22:39
  This is really a pacing question.
• 22:41
  When do you shift from scene to scene?
• 22:44
  You know, when do you roll initiative?
• 22:46
  When do you move from purely role play to some kind of
• 22:49
  mechanical resolution? It's all about figuring out your
• 22:53
  pacing. Some groups and games will be
• 22:56
  perfectly fine with many many hours of chatting it up and
• 22:59
  doing that date that deep Shakespearean style in character
• 23:04
  acting. Whereas other groups really just
• 23:06
  want a dungeon fucking monster slack monster smack.
• 23:11
  But most groups want to bounce between these like two major
• 23:16
  modes. Now, of course, depending on
• 23:20
  your game, replace the dungeon fucking and monster smacking
• 23:22
  with, you know, getting in a gunfight or doing a mission if
• 23:26
  you're playing Cyberpunk or like getting in a space battle if
• 23:30
  it's a sci-fi game, you know, replaced with whatever your
• 23:32
  game's kind of action mechanic is, but you get the idea.
• 23:36
  Most games will kind of most groups will kind of want to
• 23:39
  bounce between these two modes in, you know, a fairly equal
• 23:44
  measure which ends up meaning for you as the GM you, you as
• 23:52
  the GM and your group have to be cognizant of what this pacing
• 23:57
  will look like for your game. And so all that is to say that
• 24:01
  yes, ultimately this idea of cutting off the role-playing and
• 24:05
  when to cut it short, blah, blah, blah is ultimately about
• 24:08
  pacing. But we're only focused, or at
• 24:10
  least I'm only focusing on the very specific element of this
• 24:14
  pacing, which is the role play stuff.
• 24:19
  So let's go through it with that lens in mind.
• 24:25
  All right, so the first most obvious, I didn't really order
• 24:30
  these in matter of importance, but the first one is the most
• 24:33
  blatant. Like easy go to answer, just go
• 24:38
  by the vibes, dog. Just hit the vibes.
• 24:44
  Obviously this is not like a crazy revolutionary statement
• 24:47
  for me to make, but sometimes it really is just the vibes.
• 24:50
  Most of the time even, it's really just the vibes.
• 24:54
  And that is the easiest place to start.
• 24:57
  If the vibes are feeling right, then go for it.
• 25:00
  And if the vibes are starting to feel off, then maybe cut it
• 25:03
  short. There's not.
• 25:08
  There's not really a secret sauce to that particular bit.
• 25:13
  You know, after you've played, after you've played tabletop for
• 25:19
  a long time. I think your your vibo meter,
• 25:22
  your vibe detector gets more more advanced if that makes
• 25:30
  sense. Interesting way of wording it,
• 25:34
  but yes, I know what you're saying.
• 25:35
  Right, like you, you, your ability to detect if, if the
• 25:42
  vibes are flowing in a fashion that feels good or bad, it's
• 25:48
  like your ability to detect that gets more refined as you run
• 25:51
  more games. You know, you just start like
• 25:54
  there's just that intuitive something or other you start to
• 25:58
  pick up on, you know, like that's really, that's the only
• 26:04
  way I can really put it. But like, yeah, obviously it's a
• 26:11
  really basic statement. There's not much to say.
• 26:13
  Like follow the vibes is not necessarily that helpful, but I
• 26:19
  don't know, do it follow the vibes.
• 26:22
  OK, so now on to the more useful stuff.
• 26:25
  So the first one I have here is consider how much time you have
• 26:30
  left in a session I feel like. We'll call this a little pet
• 26:41
  rant, a little mini rant I guess.
• 26:42
  Maybe, I don't know, I feel like a lot of GMs don't consider the
• 26:57
  time frame that the like, OK, hold on, hold on.
• 27:00
  I got to reorganize the thought. Pause too.
• 27:06
  Too many thoughts just got all jumbled up in my head.
• 27:10
  I feel like a lot of GMs do not factor in how long they have for
• 27:18
  a session into how they pace these kind of things out right?
• 27:26
  Like if you know you only have two hours then you realistically
• 27:32
  you got to look at yourself and go OK two hours is less than
• 27:38
  most of these games are designed to assume, right?
• 27:42
  Most games when you look at their suggested session length
• 27:48
  however the game describes it is almost always 3 to 4 hours.
• 27:56
  So if you know your group is doing 2 hours, then you got to
• 27:59
  say to yourself, OK, I need to pace things with the
• 28:02
  understanding that we are operating in this 2 hour window.
• 28:08
  So if you're playing DND for example, and you know you only
• 28:11
  got 2 hours, then you know you're only at best you're
• 28:15
  getting one fight done. And you probably don't want to
• 28:19
  make your fights particularly deeper complicated because you
• 28:23
  just don't have enough time to work with there.
• 28:25
  And then you're going to awkwardly cut off in the middle
• 28:28
  and then things just get things get jumbled and messy and just
• 28:35
  it's not great. The reason that I've be can't
• 28:39
  become really aware of this myself in the in considering how
• 28:44
  much time I have left in the session, is that watching actual
• 28:49
  plays, which are, you know, if the GM is, if the GM is doing
• 28:56
  their job, you know, an actual play is kind of handled like a
• 29:00
  show, right? Like ATV show.
• 29:03
  And that made me realize that pacing out your game kind of
• 29:12
  like ATV show is something that I think you should strive to do
• 29:19
  so to like bring it all together.
• 29:23
  This is something I started doing a while ago with my
• 29:25
  sessions, which is the idea of thinking about them in an
• 29:28
  extended TV show structure. Which means in terms of my
• 29:32
  pacing for a game, I try to have sessions end on what feels like
• 29:38
  a logical stopping point, similar to an episode of ATV
• 29:43
  drama. So that might mean a little bit
• 29:46
  of a cliffhanger, like a little mini cliffhanger or just kind of
• 29:50
  a natural resting point that could easily lead into the next
• 29:54
  session. Similar to how a new episode of
• 29:56
  a show starts. Something like a little bit of
• 30:01
  room for a small amount of time to pass or a natural break where
• 30:05
  a camera might do a cut. What this means in terms of
• 30:09
  managing role play scenes and, you know, whether to cut them
• 30:13
  off or not, is if I feel like the role play scene has enough
• 30:20
  meat on the bones to extend out to a natural end point and bump
• 30:25
  up against the end of the session, then I will let it
• 30:28
  rock. Or if I feel like there's a
• 30:31
  small scene afterward that would be a better end point, then I
• 30:36
  might decide around that basis to cut the role play scene a
• 30:40
  little bit short here, to then transition into that little
• 30:45
  shorter scene afterward. That'll have a nice little
• 30:48
  natural end point, which will then flow naturally into the
• 30:53
  next session that all flowing. Get what I mean by all that?
• 31:01
  Yeah, yeah, I got you. Because I like, I don't know,
• 31:08
  this is sort of an, an opinion thing, but I think structuring
• 31:14
  your games like TV show, TV show episodes can really add to the
• 31:21
  little cinematic flair of things.
• 31:26
  And that little cinematic flair I feel like helps with with like
• 31:38
  player investment, you know? I think it can, I think for me
• 31:46
  at least. Playing in your games?
• 31:47
  Yeah, I think it does. And a immersive element for
• 31:51
  sure. I've tried incorporating a
• 31:54
  little bit of it with my players, it doesn't seem to work
• 31:58
  as well. What makes you say that?
• 32:03
  Because I don't notice any demonstrable.
• 32:05
  Difference in terms of how they respond, you mean?
• 32:12
  Pretty much, yeah. I mean, you might be not, you
• 32:21
  might not be noticing a difference, but there still
• 32:23
  might be something there too, you know?
• 32:29
  Yeah. But if it's if like I feel like
• 32:32
  I'm pretty good at at catching on to that kind of stuff with my
• 32:35
  players. And if I don't notice anything
• 32:37
  demonstrable, I go, well, maybe they just don't care about it as
• 32:40
  much, or they're used to a certain kind of play.
• 32:46
  I guess my thought would then become the.
• 32:47
  What's kind of your alternative option?
• 32:54
  In the first game. Yeah, in the first game, it was
• 32:58
  more of like a, it felt more like a book and less of an
• 33:02
  episode. And and what I mean by that is I
• 33:05
  didn't always in fact, because we had a kind of weird play
• 33:09
  time, right? We can only play for about 3 1/2
• 33:11
  hours as opposed to or three hours was to four hours.
• 33:14
  And because we had six players, we were only getting about two
• 33:18
  hours or so of worth of content done in those three hours,
• 33:23
  right? So it felt like something at a
• 33:24
  lot of times it was just like, all right, we're going to put a
• 33:26
  bookmark here in the middle of the page and we just got to keep
• 33:28
  going next week. And now that I have less
• 33:31
  players. I do still have 5 players which
• 33:36
  is a noticeable. Improvement from six just in
• 33:38
  terms of like spotlight timing, sure.
• 33:41
  But yeah, it's still a situation where the game moves slower and
• 33:49
  I think it moves slower because, and we could have a whole other
• 33:53
  episode on this, but my players lack cohesion as a party.
• 34:01
  Write that down. Write that down.
• 34:03
  Yeah, well, so like in your game, right?
• 34:05
  That idea? Put it in your pocket.
• 34:07
  I I will in your campaign, right?
• 34:11
  It's usually Goro and Senna and Irena and Don, and then
• 34:16
  sometimes we'll feel spicy and we'll swap that up to be, you
• 34:22
  know, Goro and and Don and then Irena and Senna.
• 34:26
  Sure. Yeah.
• 34:27
  In my game it is. A lot of the times every man for
• 34:31
  himself characters will go off and have their own conversation
• 34:35
  with NPCS. And like, a part of this is my
• 34:38
  fault, admittedly, because players don't.
• 34:42
  My players are more reactive than I want them to be, even
• 34:45
  still. So a lot of the times it's it's
• 34:47
  NPCS seeking characters out because I kind of need the story
• 34:51
  to get transferred to the player somehow.
• 34:53
  You know what I mean? Yeah.
• 34:56
  So it is a lot of me and one player.
• 34:58
  And then everyone watches US play pretend for a little bit,
• 35:01
  which I would like to stop. And the best way for that to
• 35:03
  stop is to try to get them to do things in pairs and teams.
• 35:09
  Makes sense. Yeah.
• 35:11
  And some of them still aren't getting it.
• 35:16
  So like I'll give you a perfect example.
• 35:20
  OK, not again, not to detract from that point, but one of my.
• 35:23
  Players, I think we're on point here.
• 35:25
  OK, one of my players, herb herb like attendant slash boyfriend
• 35:30
  just went missing, right? He's been gone for like 3 or 4
• 35:33
  days. OK, they tracked his location to
• 35:38
  the long rim right? The like outlaw territory in
• 35:40
  space and two of my players grew up there.
• 35:45
  One of my players spent the last two years there and rather than
• 35:49
  go Oh well, Nate, Echo and and Troy are all from the wrong
• 35:55
  room. Let.
• 35:55
  Me, bring the other player along.
• 35:57
  Who's from there? Yeah, let me ask them what they
• 35:59
  know and that's even better because then they'll walk up to
• 36:02
  another player and have a conversation like a a self
• 36:05
  startup conversation. They go right DM what can I
• 36:08
  reasonably do to look this up? And I'm like, why do you have to
• 36:12
  look it up? You've got 399 information right
• 36:16
  there. And of course they don't know
• 36:18
  everything I do. So eventually it'll be her
• 36:21
  walking up to them and them asking me and me giving
• 36:25
  information. But now that's three, maybe four
• 36:28
  players of the five who are collaborating together and
• 36:32
  gaining information at the same rate.
• 36:34
  Yeah, ultimately the information's coming from you,
• 36:37
  but in in in universe, it's going between the characters,
• 36:41
  which is still a little different.
• 36:43
  Yes. And it occupies more players and
• 36:46
  you get more done because it's not one player doing a thing and
• 36:50
  then another player doing a thing and then another player,
• 36:52
  right? So you're saying, you're saying
• 36:55
  the the sort of pairing off thing that's occurring in
• 36:58
  Fabula, which y'all are doing entirely by yourselves?
• 37:02
  I didn't really do anything to make that happen.
• 37:05
  You're saying that that has this like benefit towards this pacing
• 37:09
  idea, especially when we're talking about the role-playing
• 37:12
  stuff? Absolutely, yes.
• 37:14
  OK, So then my question becomes in the idea of, so when you're
• 37:20
  looking at time in a time in your session, are you kind of
• 37:27
  throwing that out the window sometimes because you know you
• 37:30
  just can't control it well enough?
• 37:33
  OK, I see. So it if so, like if characters
• 37:39
  are are having a big a role play scene and you're like, all
• 37:44
  right, well, timing wise this is gonna make things not fit well,
• 37:47
  but you just kind of let it go. It it's just a battle that I
• 37:51
  have, after six years, been unable to correctly or
• 37:58
  adequately come back. I see.
• 38:00
  OK, I see. Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
• 38:03
  I mean, at least you're aware of it.
• 38:05
  You know, like even if you can't fully control of it, being aware
• 38:09
  of it is still good because in the moments where you can
• 38:13
  capitalize on it, then you do. And in the moments where you
• 38:16
  can't, you can't. And, you know, you just kind of
• 38:18
  go from there. Yeah, well, you know, it's funny
• 38:20
  too, right? Because I've literally in that
• 38:22
  last example, you know, my player was like, how do I you
• 38:29
  know, she's like, how do I get this information?
• 38:31
  Right, right. Why don't you ask Troy and Echo,
• 38:36
  right. And she was like, oh, well, I
• 38:38
  mean, I was like, no, no, just ask them like, and it's this was
• 38:42
  a little unfortunate because I got called away as she went to
• 38:45
  ask them. So they were kind of stuck
• 38:47
  floundering without the information they need and I was
• 38:49
  just unavailable. But right, Right in an ideal.
• 38:53
  That's not the case. So you're you're your players
• 38:58
  are almost doing like some low key single player RPG type of
• 39:02
  nonsense. Sometimes and it can be a little
• 39:04
  frustrating. It it yeah, it's just a little
• 39:12
  difficult because again, you know, I I have to be the
• 39:14
  ultimate Ave. for information travel.
• 39:17
  But I would prefer if it wasn't a one-on-one.
• 39:20
  And even when players are like, you know, you have some free
• 39:25
  time, what do you do? And it's like, I'm going to go
• 39:27
  off and have an adventure and you're like away from, away
• 39:31
  from. Everybody else.
• 39:32
  Everybody else. Yep.
• 39:33
  Yep. All right, OK, fuck it.
• 39:36
  Yep. It's funny.
• 39:40
  And they were they were better about this before the new arc
• 39:43
  started like at the during the big fight and LED the lead up to
• 39:46
  it. I was seeing it.
• 39:48
  I was like, oh, we're we're we're developing, we're getting
• 39:50
  there. And then after that arc it just
• 39:53
  gone. Huh.
• 39:56
  All right, well, I I can't necessarily go down too deep
• 40:03
  down that rabbit hole. No, no, I know.
• 40:04
  I know, I know. There's lots of different
• 40:06
  thoughts I'm having there. OK, So yeah, that's one of the
• 40:11
  options. Is this idea of, of trying to
• 40:14
  consider, consider how much time you'll have left and trying to
• 40:17
  figure out where those good natural breaking points are and
• 40:21
  trying to steer the role play scene into those natural
• 40:26
  breaking points. And then if you can't, you know,
• 40:32
  working with what you got, as it were kind of in Isaiah's case,
• 40:38
  the next big one is getting a sense for your player's boredom.
• 40:45
  And this one. This is a big one.
• 40:48
  Oh yeah, this, this is, this is a muscle.
• 40:52
  And, and it, it, it really does take time to, to refine this.
• 40:56
  And I, I don't really know how to describe the process of
• 41:04
  training this muscle, but it's just one of those things.
• 41:08
  So the the feeling of boredom, or boredom overall during a game
• 41:15
  is, for better or worse, more weighted in your hands as the GM
• 41:21
  than it is your players. What this means is sometimes you
• 41:27
  have got to get a sense for that boredom and just do something
• 41:32
  about it. Now, you might prickle a little
• 41:36
  bit at the idea that this problem is entirely in your
• 41:40
  hands, or Morph mostly in your hands.
• 41:43
  This isn't only because people put too much onus on the GM
• 41:48
  position in this case. There's a lot of situations in
• 41:51
  tabletop games where people put too much onus on the GM and it
• 41:55
  causes unnecessary stress on the GM and just makes things tense
• 42:02
  for no reason. This isn't, this isn't really
• 42:04
  one of those situations, because The thing is the players simply
• 42:12
  have a harder position from which they can operate if they
• 42:16
  want to try and push past the boredom, they don't control the
• 42:21
  framing and they don't control the NPCS.
• 42:25
  So even if they want to move on from a scene and push through
• 42:30
  the boredom, they they kind of can't, right?
• 42:35
  So when they're presented with no other option, they will
• 42:40
  simply continue to speak with the NPC or continue to do
• 42:44
  whatever role-playing thing they're doing, even if they
• 42:48
  don't want to because they do not have within the social
• 42:53
  contract contract, they do not have the power to move out of
• 43:00
  this phase. You know, like it's just not in
• 43:04
  their hands. It's just more in your hands as
• 43:06
  the GM, just by nature of how it's structured.
• 43:09
  So that leaves you as the GM to have to pick up on that feeling
• 43:16
  and intuit that it means it's time to move on.
• 43:22
  Like you have to intuit that boredom sensation and then go,
• 43:25
  OK, we have to move on because, you know, nobody's having fun.
• 43:30
  And it is true that you will sometimes intuit incorrectly at
• 43:35
  the end of the day. Or I read my notes wrong there.
• 43:40
  Yes, you will sometimes into it incorrectly.
• 43:43
  But at the end of the day, you're better off trying to keep
• 43:46
  the ball rolling than simply leave things as is and let it
• 43:51
  Peter out into nothing. Because even if you make a wrong
• 44:01
  call sometimes, if you go for it and make the correct call most
• 44:08
  of the time in terms of getting a sense for that boredom, the
• 44:12
  game will do overall better across the board.
• 44:18
  And if you do make a really bad call, like, like you think
• 44:22
  everyone's getting bored, but everyone was actually getting
• 44:24
  really, really invested. And it's just that the scene was
• 44:28
  kind of slow. But, you know, you misread the
• 44:31
  situation, You know, just just walk it back.
• 44:35
  Just be like, all right, anyway, moving on.
• 44:37
  And the players say wait, like, whoa, whoa, we weren't done with
• 44:39
  that. And you go, oh, oh, OK, sorry, I
• 44:41
  read that wrong. And just walk it back.
• 44:43
  I yeah, you know, it's a weird thing.
• 44:50
  I feel like people, some people have this, this this feeling
• 44:54
  this sense that once I commit something to to something as
• 44:58
  AGMI can't take it back. I can't retcon things.
• 45:03
  But like, you absolutely can, you know?
• 45:09
  You can I, you do run into one issue, which is you need players
• 45:17
  to be OK with saying no, Wait, I wasn't done with that.
• 45:23
  Because you do have the issue of players.
• 45:24
  You're like, oh, OK, I, I, I guess, I guess we're done now.
• 45:27
  It's like, no, no. No, you right you want.
• 45:30
  A part of a degree of this is you're done when you say you're
• 45:32
  done. Like, right, if you're if you're
• 45:33
  faffing around for 45 minutes, I'm going to have to cut it off.
• 45:35
  But like, if you feel strongly enough about the conversation
• 45:38
  you're having as a player, you need to tell the GM no, no, I'm
• 45:41
  not done. Yeah, you want to have.
• 45:44
  You need to have your, your table or your proverbial table,
• 45:49
  in our case, your, your table culture needs to be such that
• 45:58
  the players feel open to saying like, no, wait, hold on.
• 46:02
  They need to feel like that's something they can do.
• 46:06
  So for sure, you you do need to have that, I guess buy, buy in
• 46:13
  feels like a weird word, but yeah, like buy in from the
• 46:15
  players to be able to do that kind of thing.
• 46:21
  And conversely, too, you could have players who are willing to
• 46:27
  just say, like, Jim, I'm kind of bored with this.
• 46:29
  Are we done? You know, like, that's also
• 46:32
  something that's OK. Yeah.
• 46:34
  Which is kind of coming operating from that same space
• 46:37
  of the table culture, being willing to bring up when you're
• 46:40
  bothered by something or whatever.
• 46:42
  Yeah, I mean, look, Paladin will make no bones about this.
• 46:46
  He's had to do this before. Where, you know when?
• 46:49
  When The first campaign aim, you know, crashing down when the GM
• 46:53
  kept being like, what do you do, Von He's like, Yvonne's waiting.
• 46:57
  Yvonne wants to get the fuck out of here.
• 46:59
  Right, right. Yeah, right.
• 47:03
  It's one of those 100. Percent.
• 47:04
  Balance those, those moments where you're like, I just, I'm
• 47:07
  just ready for the next bit that cause 'cause you know, as a
• 47:12
  player, you're like GM, you prepped the game.
• 47:16
  I'm expecting you to give me the content that you made.
• 47:19
  I assume you also want to get to the content you made, right?
• 47:21
  So I'm waiting for you to give me the next thing.
• 47:25
  Ideally, yeah. Yeah, that's how it should work.
• 47:28
  You should want, it's actually, it's actually a good thing if
• 47:32
  your players are like, my character's not doing anything,
• 47:35
  I'm waiting for the next thing to happen.
• 47:36
  It's actually kind of good 'cause it means you're what your
• 47:38
  players are saying to you is I want the next thing to happen,
• 47:43
  right? Like, like I am wanting that to
• 47:46
  happen. I'm expecting you to deliver me
• 47:48
  the next bit of content. Like, yeah, hit me, Jim, I want
• 47:51
  your thing. But yeah, this, this, this
• 47:57
  feeling of picking up on the boredom.
• 47:59
  I think it's, even if you're only correct half of the time, I
• 48:03
  still think it's better because again, like I was, you know,
• 48:08
  like I said, players, players don't have the ability to, to
• 48:15
  push through the boredom sections, right?
• 48:18
  Like narratively and like socially, they do not have the
• 48:27
  tools on their side of the table to be able to push through
• 48:31
  things. They can ask you as the GM like,
• 48:34
  hey, can we move on? Like I'm done with this thing.
• 48:36
  But like in character and in in game, mechanically, they do not
• 48:41
  have the tools to just push past the scene.
• 48:44
  If they're getting bored. They just can't do that.
• 48:46
  And also most of the time players are not going to want to
• 48:53
  to try to push past the scene like that because they don't
• 48:57
  know how the other players are feeling.
• 49:00
  So they're like, I don't want to make any assumptions.
• 49:03
  I'm not going to say anything or make any declarations unless the
• 49:05
  GM says anything because in a tabletop scenario, the GM is
• 49:11
  given extra power. You know, we, we are willingly,
• 49:16
  you know, as a group, you willingly concede extra power to
• 49:20
  the GM socially. So if the GM says, all right,
• 49:23
  we're getting bored, move on. Everyone is OK with that.
• 49:25
  Whereas if a player out of character says I'm getting
• 49:28
  bored, let's move on. There's a little bit more of a
• 49:31
  tension there. And that's not to say that
• 49:34
  groups will not do it, like I'm sure there's plenty most groups
• 49:37
  will, but there's still just that little extra, there's that
• 49:42
  little extra resistance. Whereas if the GM says it, it's
• 49:45
  just that little extra point of authority that pushes it over
• 49:48
  the edge. So it's the onus is on you as
• 49:53
  the GM to to get that sense and and sniff it out.
• 50:00
  Which is that more work for you as AGM?
• 50:06
  You kind of, Yeah. But is it super hard?
• 50:11
  Like, no, not really, because after you've played with a group
• 50:18
  for a little while, you, you know, you know when they're
• 50:22
  bored. You know what I mean?
• 50:24
  Like you just especially if, especially if the group you're
• 50:29
  playing with is people that you hang out with in other contexts,
• 50:32
  like their friends outside of just the DND game, you know,
• 50:36
  when they're bored, you can you can fish it out.
• 50:39
  Like there's a there's a thing you pick up on where you're
• 50:42
  like, oh, this isn't they're not liking this.
• 50:48
  And I don't know how that works or what's going on there.
• 50:50
  I don't know. Talk to a psychologist.
• 50:52
  But it's a thing. Yeah.
• 50:57
  I'm. Not sure how I would describe it
• 50:58
  myself, but yeah. And it's, it's something that
• 51:00
  you can pick up on and it's, it's small things.
• 51:02
  You'll notice, you know, maybe the, the tone is slowing down.
• 51:07
  Characters are a little slower to react.
• 51:10
  Players are you'll, you'll hear a lot of the US like, like the
• 51:14
  US, well, you know, like. The big one I noted, the big one
• 51:19
  I pick up on, and this, this is pretty universal is you say
• 51:25
  something to the character or the player and you don't get an
• 51:29
  immediate response and they go, huh, what?
• 51:31
  What did you say? And you like repeat.
• 51:34
  But when you get one of those, you're like, we're losing them a
• 51:38
  little bit, you know what I mean?
• 51:40
  I would agree with you if that wasn't something that happened
• 51:42
  to me every single time I talk to two one character.
• 51:46
  Well, don't. Don't get me wrong, 2
• 51:48
  characters. It's not always boredom, but.
• 51:53
  It can be. It's one of those indicators.
• 51:55
  Yeah, especially if you have it like if if I say to you like
• 52:00
  you, Isaiah, as a player, if I say to you, oh, like Goro XY or
• 52:05
  Z and you go like, huh, what? Repeat that.
• 52:08
  Then I know that I lost you a little bit because you've you
• 52:11
  almost never do that, you know what I mean?
• 52:13
  Yeah. So like it also can vary on a
• 52:16
  player by player basis for sure. And individual player,
• 52:20
  individual player basis is an important thing to also build
• 52:28
  your muscles for essentially. But yeah, it's, it's a funny
• 52:34
  thing. It's one of those weird human
• 52:36
  psychology things that we just pick up on.
• 52:38
  Even when you're doing it over voice chat with no visual
• 52:42
  indicators, you still pick up on things somehow.
• 52:49
  No, you do it. It's Yeah, it's like you said, I
• 52:53
  can't really put a direct. I'm not a psychologist.
• 52:55
  I I. Right.
• 52:57
  Yeah, I don't know how to. I'm a, I'm a hobby psychologist.
• 53:00
  If anything, you know, I I like to understand, I like to study
• 53:03
  people's like patterns in a weirdly sociopathic kind of way.
• 53:07
  But I can't explain to you why they do the things.
• 53:10
  I can just pick the patterns out when I see them and assign
• 53:13
  inferences to them. Yeah, something definitive.
• 53:20
  So. Yeah, that's the idea of the
• 53:23
  picking up on a sense of boredom and and ultimately going, all
• 53:26
  right, players are bored, let's move on.
• 53:28
  That's that one's pretty straightforward.
• 53:33
  Another one is checking in on that feeling of the wheels
• 53:38
  spinning. Are we just spinning our wheels
• 53:43
  and getting a sense for that? This is kind of the idea of
• 53:50
  spinning your wheels. It's it's similar to the idea of
• 53:55
  boredom, but it's not exactly the same.
• 53:59
  There's there's important differences.
• 54:04
  Players can sometimes get caught in the role play time loop and
• 54:10
  start to really spin their wheels and go nowhere, where
• 54:14
  effectively they're having their character repeat what they're
• 54:17
  saying, restate ideas in a slightly different way over and
• 54:21
  over again, or simply saying a whole lot of nothing.
• 54:27
  This can be a result of the boredom and A cause of the
• 54:33
  boredom. It can go either way, but you
• 54:39
  can also have a situation where the players are spinning their
• 54:42
  wheels but they are having fun, or when they don't know 100%
• 54:52
  what they want to say or do, but they also don't necessarily want
• 54:55
  to cut the conversation. Those are two.
• 54:58
  Those are two scenarios. The solution?
• 55:03
  Here that happens a lot. Where?
• 55:06
  Go on. No, no, go ahead.
• 55:08
  I was going to say it's a, it's a solution where, and you get
• 55:13
  this from time to time where a player might be in like out of
• 55:16
  character, kind of out of it 'cause you know, I, I get this,
• 55:19
  one of my players is a nurse at a hospital.
• 55:22
  So she will be really invested, but she might not have the
• 55:25
  bandwidth to to give the conversation as much as she
• 55:29
  wants. Right.
• 55:31
  So it's one of those things where, you know, you can see
• 55:34
  that it's kind of petering out because this person themselves
• 55:37
  is losing steam. But they're like, no, wait
• 55:40
  there. There was stuff I wanted to do.
• 55:41
  I'm just. Right, They're still investing
• 55:43
  their wheel spinning. Yeah, their wheel spinning just
• 55:46
  'cause they're not sure where to go with it.
• 55:54
  The solution here can be a little different from simply,
• 55:57
  you know, cut the role play short, but it does kind of
• 56:00
  follow the same logic. The first kind of the first big
• 56:06
  one is you might want to just pause the session a little for a
• 56:10
  moment and clarify with the players what they're trying to
• 56:16
  accomplish, right? If you feel like a player is
• 56:19
  spinning their wheels but they are having fun with it or they
• 56:22
  are trying to get something done, then you can put it on
• 56:26
  pause and go, OK, hold on, what? What are you trying to say?
• 56:29
  What is your objective in talking to this character?
• 56:31
  What do you want out of this? Right?
• 56:33
  And saying that on a player to GM level, and then once you
• 56:41
  resume from the pause, then you can go, OK, I as AGM, I now know
• 56:47
  what the player wants out of this so I can direct the
• 56:50
  conversation towards what they're trying to get, you know,
• 56:54
  what they're trying to get out of it.
• 56:58
  This method can help you to get through a scene where the wheel
• 57:02
  spinning is occurring, but it isn't necessarily because of
• 57:06
  boredom, but it could be starting to lead into boredom
• 57:11
  because the wheel spinning is coming from an unclear goal,
• 57:17
  right? That that being the key
• 57:18
  difference there. Another option is to kind of
• 57:26
  direct the conversation towards a conclusion, whether this be
• 57:31
  the NPC making a particular remark or you as the GM saying
• 57:37
  on the player level, OK, we're trying to hit this point, so
• 57:43
  let's work towards that. This is something where you are
• 57:51
  definitively ending the scene, but it might not be as
• 57:55
  immediate, right? You're not necessarily cutting
• 57:59
  it short right where it is, but you're saying, all right, I'm
• 58:01
  working towards this objective, this is what I'm doing, and you
• 58:05
  are declaring an end, and then you're kind of naturally
• 58:08
  petering towards that end. This is kind of like the boredom
• 58:13
  thing. If you direct towards a
• 58:17
  conclusion, you might sometimes kind of make the wrong call and
• 58:20
  then end up at the wrong conclusion point.
• 58:25
  And then the players are like, hold on, wait, no, that wasn't
• 58:27
  what I was trying to do. Again, retcon a little work
• 58:31
  backwards, whatever you got to do.
• 58:36
  And then lastly, of course, if the players are spinning the
• 58:38
  spinning their wheels, you just simply cut where you are, you
• 58:44
  know, maybe say to them, is there any last points you want
• 58:46
  to throw in in character? Or if you know or ask the
• 58:51
  players, did you get your ideas across And then just wrap it
• 58:55
  there, right? Just cut it and just be done
• 58:58
  because ultimately spinning your wheels is always bad.
• 59:06
  Even if it's kind of a fun spinning your wheels, it's still
• 59:09
  not a good thing because it it means that you're not really
• 59:15
  getting anywhere. You're not making progress.
• 59:17
  You know, you're just kind of wasting time for no particular
• 59:22
  reason. And ultimately time is precious.
• 59:25
  And this hobby is already time, you know, already very absorbing
• 59:29
  of our time. We don't need to make that
• 59:30
  worse. I don't know, I, I don't know
• 59:34
  that I feel comfortable saying it's always bad because you have
• 59:39
  to. Yes, this this hobby is time
• 59:44
  consuming. Yeah, time consuming, but you
• 59:49
  know, it, it things have to come in phases.
• 59:51
  Sometimes the GM gets to show off all their cool stuff that
• 59:54
  they work super hard for, but sometimes the players just want
• 59:58
  to relax a little bit and and slow things down.
• 1:00:02
  And as long as the GM gets to do what they want within a
• 1:00:05
  reasonable time frame, maybe it's not this session, but you
• 1:00:08
  know, in your case, we have all of next session to do that
• 1:00:10
  thing. You got to give and take a
• 1:00:14
  little bit. So is it generally something
• 1:00:19
  that's to be avoided? Yes.
• 1:00:20
  But I think you should put the caveat of if it happens from
• 1:00:23
  time to time, that's OK. Just keep, you know, a
• 1:00:28
  potentially hard limit on how much it happens.
• 1:00:31
  I almost wouldn't necessarily call that wheel spinning though.
• 1:00:35
  Like wheel spinning to me is a very specific situation where
• 1:00:40
  you kind of lock yourself into like a weird logic loop.
• 1:00:45
  And even if the players are like trying to just have a relax and
• 1:00:50
  chill out session, if they start spinning their wheels in that
• 1:00:55
  session, it means that they're not even really, they're not
• 1:01:00
  even really doing any of the relaxing bit.
• 1:01:02
  They're just kind of going around in circles, you know,
• 1:01:07
  like we like, it's a very specific, I can't think of a
• 1:01:13
  good example. It's a very specific situation,
• 1:01:15
  though, when you hit that wheel spinning point.
• 1:01:17
  You know what I mean? Like I I get what you're saying,
• 1:01:20
  but I'm I'm almost calling, I'm almost considering wheel
• 1:01:25
  spinning to be like a slightly different thing.
• 1:01:29
  It's like a unique stun lock state.
• 1:01:33
  I get what you're saying I so I guess maybe I'll shift my thesis
• 1:01:37
  to try to be good about knowing if they are wheel spinning or if
• 1:01:43
  they're just vibing. Or if they're just vibing right,
• 1:01:45
  well, that's kind of, yeah, that kind of goes back to my first
• 1:01:47
  one of just get a sense for the vibes, right?
• 1:01:49
  Like go by the vibes, man. Right?
• 1:01:53
  That's yeah, that's really what it is.
• 1:01:54
  Because yeah, you're right. Sometimes.
• 1:01:57
  Sometimes you as the GM might be like, all right, we're hitting
• 1:02:01
  the wheel spinning state, and the players are like, no, no,
• 1:02:05
  we're just in like a vibing state and you kind of have to
• 1:02:07
  go, Oh, OK. Well, yeah, then all right, I
• 1:02:09
  can let the vibing go. That's fine 'cause like this is
• 1:02:17
  kind of a goofy extreme example, but just for the sake of kind of
• 1:02:22
  clarifying what I mean, if the players are hanging out at a bar
• 1:02:26
  in character and they're talking to each other, whatever, and
• 1:02:32
  then their characters get drunk and then, you know, a player's
• 1:02:35
  like, So what are you drinking? And then the player, you know,
• 1:02:39
  the character responds and then like 2 minutes later it goes so
• 1:02:44
  like what are you drinking again?
• 1:02:46
  You know what I mean? Because he just doesn't know
• 1:02:47
  where else to go with it. That would be the wheel
• 1:02:50
  spinning, right? Like that's the wheel spinning
• 1:02:52
  thing where you're kind of just you're you're vibing, but you're
• 1:02:55
  vibing like you're like ineffectively vibing, which
• 1:03:00
  sounds like a goofy thing to say, but you, you know what I
• 1:03:02
  mean? Yeah, no, I mean, you know, to
• 1:03:05
  counter my own point, there is a time where players want to vibe,
• 1:03:07
  but they just don't have no material to vibe with.
• 1:03:11
  Yeah, they don't have the. Yeah, they don't.
• 1:03:12
  Have to what you were saying before, Players can't end
• 1:03:15
  scenes. They can choose to stop
• 1:03:18
  participating a scene. They can say, you know, I've
• 1:03:20
  said my piece, I'm done. I'm done, yeah, but.
• 1:03:23
  If you as the GM don't end the scene, the players are trapped
• 1:03:28
  in fucking limbo until you choose to do so.
• 1:03:31
  Yeah. So it it does require a level of
• 1:03:35
  cooperation on both sides for sure.
• 1:03:37
  Yeah, it's definitely a cooperative.
• 1:03:38
  I mean, I, I think ultimately trying to decide when the role
• 1:03:45
  play ends is like the most cooperative that games get.
• 1:03:52
  Because when you're doing mechanical things right, the
• 1:03:57
  game tells you when the mechanics end, right?
• 1:04:00
  If you're doing combat, the game says this is when the combat
• 1:04:03
  ends, right, When the players do XY or Z.
• 1:04:07
  But when you're doing purely, when you're just operating
• 1:04:09
  purely in the nebulous role play space, the game just sits back
• 1:04:14
  and goes, good luck, champ. You know, So, yeah, deciding
• 1:04:19
  when the role play is done and when to cut that scene, it is
• 1:04:23
  the most cooperative element in a lot of ways.
• 1:04:27
  And yeah, there is, there is a funny thing where the vibes are
• 1:04:32
  good, but also the wheels are spinning.
• 1:04:36
  And when you're in that situation, you as the GM got to
• 1:04:38
  go like, all right, well, I, I, we got to do something here
• 1:04:43
  because otherwise what the fuck is the point?
• 1:04:49
  And it's, it's one of those things where it's like, it's
• 1:04:53
  like teetering, there's like a super fine line.
• 1:04:59
  You're like teetering on the edge of the vibes are
• 1:05:03
  Immaculate. And we're fucking around.
• 1:05:04
  And then one little 1 little thing happens and then we fall
• 1:05:08
  into the wheel spin and just now we're doing nothing.
• 1:05:11
  Like it's such a fine, fine line.
• 1:05:17
  And again, it's one of those you just get a muscle, you know, you
• 1:05:19
  get a feel for it kind of things.
• 1:05:24
  It is kind of. Kind of situation once I think I
• 1:05:27
  talked about it on on podcast, but I had a situation once where
• 1:05:30
  two of my players were talking for like 30 minutes and I was
• 1:05:35
  like guys, like I was like, I like I really hate to cut you
• 1:05:39
  all off, but we we got stuff to do like I kind.
• 1:05:42
  Of shit to get. Yeah, I got prep to do.
• 1:05:44
  And they were like, yeah, yeah, OK.
• 1:05:46
  But they, they like kept going. They were so deep in the weeds
• 1:05:50
  that they couldn't find a good spot.
• 1:05:52
  And then to stop. Yeah.
• 1:05:54
  So it went on another 15 minutes as far as, like, guys, like, I
• 1:05:56
  got a hard stop. You, you got 60 seconds.
• 1:05:58
  Like, it's been almost an hour. And, you know, they, they, they
• 1:06:01
  felt bad. And it hasn't happened since.
• 1:06:03
  But like, it was one of those things where I was like, I'm I
• 1:06:07
  am begging you, please. Well, that's the other thing too
• 1:06:10
  is you're playing characters right and sometimes you don't
• 1:06:20
  always have an entirely clear vision of like, how would my
• 1:06:25
  character respond? What would my character do here?
• 1:06:28
  Sometimes that that vision is not entirely obvious because,
• 1:06:34
  you know, maybe the character is put in a situation that you
• 1:06:36
  never expected them to be in, so you don't know how to respond.
• 1:06:39
  Or maybe the character has shifted over the course of the
• 1:06:43
  campaign and you feel a little bit differently about them than
• 1:06:45
  when they started. So you have to kind of reassess.
• 1:06:48
  And then, yeah, that's where you get in those situations where
• 1:06:51
  those two players were vibing but they were wheel spinning at
• 1:06:55
  the same time because they didn't know how to close it out.
• 1:06:57
  They didn't know how to to like, write their conclusion
• 1:07:00
  paragraph. And yeah, and those use the GM
• 1:07:04
  just go, I, I gotta die. Like, I gotta do something.
• 1:07:09
  Which actually kind of transitions nicely into my next
• 1:07:15
  point, which is my last major point here, which is sometimes
• 1:07:22
  you got to think to yourself, do I give a shit about this?
• 1:07:26
  Do I care? Sometimes you got to.
• 1:07:30
  You got to be like, and this is going to sound mean and I know
• 1:07:33
  this is going to sound me, but like, hear me out on this one.
• 1:07:37
  Sometimes you as the GM, you have just run out of fucks to
• 1:07:41
  give. Now you of course want to
• 1:07:46
  facilitate your players fun and you want to try and let them
• 1:07:51
  keep things going if they like the scene in question.
• 1:07:56
  But sometimes you just don't care and you got to just call
• 1:08:01
  it. It might seem a little bit mean
• 1:08:04
  or a little bit crass to basically go I'm bored with with
• 1:08:07
  this interaction, so let's end it here.
• 1:08:10
  But you as the GM are ultimately also a player in the game.
• 1:08:17
  And part of running an RPG is that it is fun for you to do so
• 1:08:24
  because you have a desire to do it.
• 1:08:28
  But not every scenario is going to 100% be to your liking, so
• 1:08:32
  sometimes you just got to call it.
• 1:08:35
  Especially because realistically, most scenes that
• 1:08:40
  you're going to role play out require you as the GM to act as
• 1:08:45
  an NPC, or at the very least the general things in the area you
• 1:08:52
  have to step in and control to facilitate the scene.
• 1:08:57
  You can't be an entirely passive observer most of the time.
• 1:09:01
  There are scenes where sometimes you can just absolutely backseat
• 1:09:04
  100%, but most of the time you have to interject a little bit,
• 1:09:10
  even if only a smidge. So if you don't give a shit
• 1:09:16
  about the scene for whatever reason, and you're forcing
• 1:09:19
  yourself to do it, it's probably not going to be a very good
• 1:09:23
  scene anyway 'cause you're kind of like a professional actor
• 1:09:28
  who's just phoning it in for a paycheck.
• 1:09:30
  The audience can tell. So let me, let me ask you a
• 1:09:34
  question. Are you are you specifically
• 1:09:36
  talking about a scene where you as the GM are a participant, or
• 1:09:41
  you're just watching? Lack of a better word?
• 1:09:47
  I'm mostly talking as a participant, but sometimes when
• 1:09:52
  you're watching you also have to do this.
• 1:09:55
  So my, my only thing is if you're watching, I feel like you
• 1:09:58
  have to do this significantly less.
• 1:09:59
  Yeah, like less less. Usually you're I'm gonna say my,
• 1:10:04
  my rule of thumb is generally again, it's still like if, if
• 1:10:08
  the conversation's been going on for more than 20 minutes, it's
• 1:10:11
  not necessarily at a boredom, but it is a, a, a situation
• 1:10:15
  where it's like, even if I'm not that interested, it's like,
• 1:10:17
  guys, we gotta there's just other shit we have to hit like.
• 1:10:20
  Right. And and that's kind of that goes
• 1:10:23
  back to my point where I was saying before where most of the
• 1:10:27
  time you as the GM, you do have to facilitate the scene.
• 1:10:32
  You know, like even if you even if there is no MPC present,
• 1:10:35
  sometimes you still have to kind of facilitate and like referee
• 1:10:39
  the scene a little bit, right. You might have to describe the
• 1:10:42
  area or remind your players about a lower tidbit.
• 1:10:47
  So you still have to be like kind of paying attention even if
• 1:10:50
  you really don't give a shit about what they're talking
• 1:10:52
  about. You know what I mean?
• 1:10:53
  So it's rare for you to have a situation where you are
• 1:10:56
  completely removed. But even in those situations
• 1:11:01
  where you are completely removed, yeah, sometimes you
• 1:11:03
  still, you do still kind of just be like I'm calling it now, of
• 1:11:10
  course, this, this particular method of of just saying like, I
• 1:11:15
  don't give a shit, we're done here.
• 1:11:17
  There's a massive caveat on this attached to it, which is to say,
• 1:11:22
  you know, don't do it too much, right?
• 1:11:25
  Sometimes you just got to suck it up and interact with the
• 1:11:28
  scene that you don't care for because your players are loving
• 1:11:33
  it. It's about striking a balance as
• 1:11:37
  much as possible, right? So I'm not saying that every
• 1:11:42
  time there's a role play interaction between 2 characters
• 1:11:45
  that you don't give a shit about, you should stop them.
• 1:11:48
  What I'm saying is sometimes you let them rock and sometimes you
• 1:11:54
  say to them, guys, I really want to get to the boss fight that I
• 1:11:57
  prepped for this session 'cause I think it's going to be really
• 1:11:59
  fun. So can we please stop doing what
• 1:12:01
  you're doing? You know what I mean?
• 1:12:02
  It's it's that balance and you got to play it by ear and let it
• 1:12:07
  rock. And you know, you got to kind of
• 1:12:09
  be like, do I? Because sometimes you as AGM,
• 1:12:13
  right, you have something you really, really, really are
• 1:12:16
  excited about and want to get to, but sometimes you don't,
• 1:12:19
  right? Sometimes the stuff you have for
• 1:12:21
  the session, like you know, it's prepped and you're like, well, I
• 1:12:25
  know where I wanted to go, but I'm not super invested or
• 1:12:28
  anything like that. So if the players do an extended
• 1:12:31
  role play scene that I don't care about, that's fine.
• 1:12:34
  But if you have something you really, really want to get to,
• 1:12:39
  like a really sick boss fighter or a really cool puzzle or a
• 1:12:41
  sick dungeon and they're doing an excessive amount of role play
• 1:12:45
  that you don't really give a shit about, you know, it's fair
• 1:12:47
  to be like, hey, can we get to the cool dungeon I prepped,
• 1:12:51
  please? I would really like to run the
• 1:12:53
  dungeon, please. You know, it's it's very much a
• 1:12:57
  give and take, but I think AGM is completely within their right
• 1:13:02
  to be like I'm not really that invested in what y'all are doing
• 1:13:06
  right here and I want to move on to the next thing that I am
• 1:13:10
  invested in. So like let's call it.
• 1:13:13
  I think that's it's completely valid thing to do.
• 1:13:17
  And within reason, I agree. Well, that's why I said it's
• 1:13:21
  within reason is the making it a balance, right?
• 1:13:24
  That's what I'm saying about gauging.
• 1:13:28
  You can't do it all the time and you need to kind of make a call
• 1:13:33
  and be fair on both sides, right?
• 1:13:36
  That's that's the within reason element of it.
• 1:13:40
  Because again, you're a player at the table too.
• 1:13:44
  And if you want to get to something really fun that you
• 1:13:47
  prepped, you know, it's unfair to you.
• 1:13:50
  If the players want to fuck about with a bunch of nonsense
• 1:13:54
  and you really want to get to the cool thing you prepped, you
• 1:13:56
  know like you want to have your fun also, right?
• 1:14:00
  You do? Yeah.
• 1:14:02
  And and that, that it really, that whole thing really goes
• 1:14:05
  back to the idea that the the GM is a player and not just the GM
• 1:14:14
  is not a robot that facilitates your fun for you, right?
• 1:14:18
  The GM is a player that helps to facilitate the fun for you, but
• 1:14:23
  also has to facilitate their own fun, right?
• 1:14:27
  It it has to be. It has to go both ways.
• 1:14:29
  You can't treat your your, you can't treat your GM like a
• 1:14:32
  manservant. They're not your Butler.
• 1:14:36
  Yeah, your your GM is not an AI. You can't just punch Thompson
• 1:14:40
  and expect answers. So, you know, if your GMs cut
• 1:14:46
  you a little short on a role play scene 'cause they're really
• 1:14:48
  just not that invested and they really want to get to the cool
• 1:14:51
  boss fight, then, you know, sometimes just like, let it
• 1:14:53
  happen. It's all right.
• 1:14:54
  And here's the thing, if the GM is so invested in whatever, like
• 1:15:00
  the boss fight or the dungeon or whatever that they prepped, if
• 1:15:04
  they're so interested in getting to that, it probably means they
• 1:15:07
  think it's going to be really cool, which probably means it's
• 1:15:10
  going to be fun for you as a player anyway.
• 1:15:13
  So like, let it rock and trust them, you know what I mean?
• 1:15:18
  Yeah, I I assuming of course you don't just fucking despise
• 1:15:20
  combat, but also at that point. Right.
• 1:15:23
  But also, why are you playing D&D or why are you playing
• 1:15:26
  Fabulous, or why are you playing Shadowrun, Right.
• 1:15:28
  Like, if yes, if you despise combat, then that's a different
• 1:15:30
  discussion. But also, if you're playing a
• 1:15:33
  game that's not combat focus, perhaps the thing that GM have
• 1:15:36
  prepped is some sort of different mechanic about the
• 1:15:39
  game that they're really excited about, you know?
• 1:15:41
  Yeah. And again, I do understand that
• 1:15:46
  what I'm saying sounds kind of mean, but sometimes a little bit
• 1:15:50
  of a little bit of crassness, a little bit of meanness is OK if
• 1:15:57
  like the end result is a is a good payoff, you know, if that
• 1:16:02
  makes sense. Yeah, no, I get you.
• 1:16:05
  And, and for sure, like you said, if it's a scene where you
• 1:16:10
  as the GM are completely removed, you definitely should
• 1:16:16
  give more leeway because, you know, you as the GM are like,
• 1:16:21
  not you don't have to put any in.
• 1:16:23
  You don't have to put any effort in.
• 1:16:26
  So yeah, like give a little more wiggle room.
• 1:16:32
  But if it's a scene where you're involved with an like as an NPC
• 1:16:37
  and you don't give a shit and you really want to move on to
• 1:16:39
  the next thing, then you really got to say to yourself, like,
• 1:16:42
  all right, come on, come on, y'all.
• 1:16:44
  Like we're moving on, moving on. Especially if you don't like it
• 1:16:48
  in the MPC that much 'cause like sometimes, you know, sometimes
• 1:16:52
  as GMs, we'd be thrown in MPC just as like a quick one off to
• 1:16:55
  get the point across. And for whatever reason, the
• 1:16:58
  players get really attached to that fucking MPC and you don't
• 1:17:01
  give a God damn shit about this Jackass.
• 1:17:03
  I don't want to role play Glupshito.
• 1:17:05
  I just needed him to hand you the letter.
• 1:17:08
  Why are we having a conversation with Glupshito?
• 1:17:10
  Please stop. I don't want to role play
• 1:17:12
  Glupshito. Yeah, no, I don't know.
• 1:17:15
  I, I, if a player really attaches themselves to the BC,
• 1:17:18
  I'm just like, all right, fuck it, let's run a rock.
• 1:17:20
  I mean, most of the time, yes, but sometimes there are some
• 1:17:25
  situations where I'm like I really just can't be bothered
• 1:17:27
  with this guy like he just doesn't matter, you know what I
• 1:17:30
  mean? Like just move on y'all, It it
• 1:17:35
  happens, it happens. It's or or sometimes sometimes
• 1:17:43
  you throw an MPC in there that you didn't, you just needed to
• 1:17:48
  be like a little background comment and then the players put
• 1:17:52
  way too much attention on it and you're just like, oh God, no,
• 1:17:56
  come on, guys, there's a way cooler guy if you just go into
• 1:18:00
  the next room. Don't do this to me.
• 1:18:03
  You know, like. I haven't had that problem.
• 1:18:06
  The thing that I have a problem with is, and I know my players
• 1:18:10
  said that they don't do this, but I know that they 100% do
• 1:18:12
  where an NPC will give their opinion, which is wrong.
• 1:18:15
  You know, like, oh, we should go there and an NPC is like, maybe
• 1:18:20
  you shouldn't go there because going there is suicide.
• 1:18:22
  And like, oh, we can't go there now.
• 1:18:23
  They said it's suicide. The GM said we're going to die.
• 1:18:25
  And it's like, no, no, I, I was yes, your, your mechanic friend
• 1:18:29
  who cares about you doesn't want you to die.
• 1:18:31
  But yes, that ultimately is where you have to go.
• 1:18:34
  It would just be crazy for a person to tell you to not want
• 1:18:36
  to do that. You know what I mean?
• 1:18:37
  To to tell you to run there willingly.
• 1:18:39
  Yeah, yes, the idea that everything in NPC says is
• 1:18:43
  gospel. Yes, the NP CS telling you not
• 1:18:46
  to go to the Valley of Megadeth because it's called the Valley
• 1:18:48
  of Megadeth, But the Valley of Megadeth is absolutely where
• 1:18:51
  dark market need to be, yeah. The NPC is telling you that
• 1:18:55
  because if the NPC goes to the Valley of Megadeth, they will
• 1:18:58
  get brutally murdered. Whereas if you go to the Valley
• 1:19:01
  of Megadeth, you're going to get a lot of sick XP and a cool
• 1:19:03
  sword. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
• 1:19:07
  I I yes I've run into that where I'm like, I'm like y'all are
• 1:19:11
  trusting this NPC way too much. I actually had a a funny
• 1:19:14
  opposite to this because the the player who was searching for her
• 1:19:18
  boyfriend, she found out where the guy is, right?
• 1:19:22
  Like at the general area of space he is.
• 1:19:24
  And keep in mind you're in space.
• 1:19:25
  So even if it looks super close to anything on the space map,
• 1:19:29
  you're light years away, right, right, right.
• 1:19:32
  So she was like, we have to go there now and then when NPC had
• 1:19:35
  to be like, you don't know where you're going, I don't know where
• 1:19:39
  it is. We're just gonna fly in the
• 1:19:42
  vastness of space for months looking for this fucking guy.
• 1:19:46
  We maybe we should get some coordinates before we jump into
• 1:19:49
  the fucking deep end. Yeah, we need something a little
• 1:19:51
  more precise than he's in the ocean.
• 1:19:54
  Yeah, like, well, we have to go to the ocean right now.
• 1:19:57
  Well, that doesn't narrow things down, does it?
• 1:20:00
  Yeah, it would basically be like, Oh yes, you know that this
• 1:20:03
  guy's in New York. All right, we're going to New
• 1:20:04
  York. It's like.
• 1:20:06
  Yeah. Where?
• 1:20:07
  In New York? The state's fucking huge.
• 1:20:09
  Yeah, I heard this guy's in Texas.
• 1:20:12
  All right. Well, that that's a lot of
• 1:20:14
  space. Yeah.
• 1:20:17
  Yeah, no, that's for sure. One of those things where we're
• 1:20:20
  like, hold on, pause, pause. Think about this for a second.
• 1:20:24
  Yep. Oh shit, what was I gonna say?
• 1:20:33
  I don't know. But yes, ultimately that last
• 1:20:38
  little point, I, I do understand how it sounds, but you do also
• 1:20:41
  have to keep that idea in the back of your mind that yeah,
• 1:20:45
  you're a player too. Like you at the GM, you have to
• 1:20:47
  have fun too. You can't just be, you're not
• 1:20:49
  just like a, a weird sadist slave or or masochist slave for
• 1:20:54
  your players. Unless you want to be, I guess.
• 1:20:59
  Maybe shrug. Yeah, I don't think that's.
• 1:21:06
  Let's assume the opposite. I mean, assume the opposite, but
• 1:21:09
  there's probably somebody out there who likes that for some
• 1:21:12
  reason. Are they playing the Book of
• 1:21:17
  Vile Darkness like? I know they're just being
• 1:21:19
  bullied by, they just really love being bullied by their
• 1:21:21
  players all the time. I don't know.
• 1:21:24
  I don't know, something like that.
• 1:21:30
  Anything you want to add on the tail end, dear?
• 1:21:33
  No, I mean, you know, I think we had all the, the, the big points
• 1:21:37
  just, you know, as players try to be cognizant of when it's
• 1:21:45
  time to move on. And as AGM, you know, it know
• 1:21:54
  when to keep it moving and when the, when the players start
• 1:21:57
  wheel spinning because it doesn't feel great to feel like
• 1:22:02
  they're just vamping for time. Yeah, like I said last session I
• 1:22:09
  had to step away, so the players were kind of forced to ban for
• 1:22:12
  time and I felt so bad 'cause they were like, well, we know
• 1:22:16
  it's like super dangerous, you know, like it's just crazy
• 1:22:18
  dangerous. I was like, oh God, they're
• 1:22:20
  they're they're stalling out. Fuck I.
• 1:22:21
  Got they were just saying they were just saying nothing.
• 1:22:24
  Yeah, and I felt so bad. I mean, do you have, do you have
• 1:22:30
  any other methods for for getting a getting a feel on when
• 1:22:36
  to cut the role play shit that I didn't?
• 1:22:38
  Think of, no, I, I don't think I have anything unique.
• 1:22:42
  I mean, all I can use is like my, my anecdotal evidence,
• 1:22:46
  right? And like you kind of brought it
• 1:22:47
  up. If someone brings up their
• 1:22:49
  their, their initial point again, if the if the
• 1:22:53
  conversation has done a full loop and it looks like we're
• 1:22:56
  going down the second lap on the track, that's, that's when you
• 1:22:59
  cut it. Yeah, if you hear, if you hear
• 1:23:02
  the same opening sentence as when the scene started, that's a
• 1:23:06
  strong indicator to be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, time to cut
• 1:23:10
  it. Time to cut it.
• 1:23:12
  Yes, because that I have definitely had that situation
• 1:23:15
  where the players like, so like, why do you fight?
• 1:23:21
  And then they talk for 10 minutes and then they go, but
• 1:23:23
  like, why do you fight? And you're like, oh, wait, hold
• 1:23:26
  on, hold on. Yeah, that is.
• 1:23:28
  It's definitely happened when they, yeah, they quite literally
• 1:23:34
  repeat themselves. It's that's rare.
• 1:23:37
  More rare, but fucking crazy when it does happen.
• 1:23:41
  Yeah, that one's more rare. What what you typically get is
• 1:23:43
  is, you know, players being like, I don't know how to keep.
• 1:23:47
  Going I've not been given the the.
• 1:23:50
  Cue to cut. The director hasn't said cut
• 1:23:52
  yet, so I got yeah, yeah, I got to keep making shit up.
• 1:23:55
  For my character's back. Story that didn't actually
• 1:23:57
  happen. Typically just make up like, I
• 1:24:01
  don't know my I I I I I I ate a fish one time straight out of
• 1:24:05
  the river. Like what?
• 1:24:06
  I, I don't know, I ate my goldfish 'cause I was so oh.
• 1:24:12
  My God, I was so distraught that it died that I meant to bury it
• 1:24:18
  and then I fucking ate it and then I threw up for two days.
• 1:24:23
  The real thing that a real pre human being has done.
• 1:24:27
  Famous human being at that. Yeah, yeah, correct.
• 1:24:31
  I, yeah, that that is kind of a funny thing that happens where
• 1:24:39
  the player has not gotten the cue to cut.
• 1:24:41
  So they just, they just kind of restate their philosophy in a
• 1:24:45
  slightly different way. They're like, well, I love
• 1:24:49
  peace. You know, I just, I'm not a man
• 1:24:51
  of war. And they like 10 minutes go by
• 1:24:53
  and they're kind of like, well, I just think the sword is a
• 1:24:56
  dangerous tool and it shouldn't be used.
• 1:24:58
  You're like, I think that's the same thing you just said before.
• 1:25:03
  You're just restating your character's thesis.
• 1:25:09
  Do whatever you can to to avoid that as players if you feel
• 1:25:12
  like. The regressive loop.
• 1:25:15
  Honestly, you know what, No, I, I, I, I kind of, I'm going to
• 1:25:17
  rephrase the statement. The players have limited control
• 1:25:21
  over ending a scene because the player can leave, right?
• 1:25:25
  You can do the vaxel Don and then I walk away.
• 1:25:28
  True players, you need to be more comfortable being like, you
• 1:25:32
  know, character being like, look, I appreciate what you
• 1:25:35
  said, but I really don't think, like, I think violence isn't the
• 1:25:38
  answer. And you don't seem to agree.
• 1:25:40
  Yeah. So hopefully we'll have this
• 1:25:42
  conversation again soon. And then you tell the GM, and
• 1:25:44
  then I get up and walk away. Right, right.
• 1:25:47
  Like the conversation's over. You've said what you need to
• 1:25:49
  say. That's true.
• 1:25:51
  You, you can be a little more declarative if you just say that
• 1:25:54
  your character just removed themselves or or says a final
• 1:25:57
  statement and be done with it. Kind of that's that's true.
• 1:25:59
  You, you, you don't have full control, but you do have that
• 1:26:03
  that limited angle to work with for sure.
• 1:26:05
  And if you hopefully, if you do that, that should be a very
• 1:26:11
  clear indicator to your GM. Oh, OK.
• 1:26:14
  I, as the GM, should also now cut things.
• 1:26:17
  Yeah, actually I think I, I, I, I think each of us in the
• 1:26:21
  fabulous party has done that at least once where they have
• 1:26:25
  finished talking and walked away or stormed off or.
• 1:26:29
  Was like, all right, well. I'm gonna leave you sitting on
• 1:26:31
  that thought. I'm gonna go get a drink, you
• 1:26:32
  know what I mean? I think we've all done it at
• 1:26:36
  least once. And I know, I know that Irina
• 1:26:38
  has done it because she has gone to full conversation, been like
• 1:26:41
  and then I ninja vanish away. I mean, yeah, I can.
• 1:26:45
  An NPC, I don't remember who but it was one of the like.
• 1:26:48
  And then I'm going to use my fabula to fucking just vanish
• 1:26:50
  this. Is backflip out of there?
• 1:26:52
  Yeah, I, yeah, I can't think of specific examples, but I think,
• 1:26:56
  yeah, you're probably right about that.
• 1:27:01
  All right. Well, that has been us.
• 1:27:05
  If you have liked what you heard, perhaps leave a like or a
• 1:27:08
  rating on whatever platform you are on.
• 1:27:13
  However, your platform of choice indicates approval.
• 1:27:19
  And that's all I got. I got nothing fancy.
• 1:27:21
  That's all I got. Well, we we forgot those.
• 1:27:25
  If you can, would you mind shooting us a donut over at our
• 1:27:28
  coffee? You can find the link in the
• 1:27:29
  description and help get Brett paid.
• 1:27:31
  Appreciate you. Bye.