Latest / Pod Save America / "The Masked Fascist." with Stacey Abrams!

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"The Masked Fascist." with Stacey Abrams! · Pod Save America

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
0:22
Speaker 2: And I'm Alyssa Mastromonaco.
0:24
Speaker 1: Jon Pfeiffer was on vacation this week. Alyssa, thanks for
0:27
Speaker 1: filling in.
0:28
Speaker 2: I mean, could you stop me if you wanted to?
0:31
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to, so I don't even know how
0:32
Speaker 1: to answer that question. On today's show, Donald Trump goes
0:37
Speaker 1: from fascist curious to fascist enthusiast. We'll discuss the latest
0:40
Speaker 1: evidence about the steps he took to keep power after
0:42
Speaker 1: losing in 2020. Stacey Abrams comes by to talk about
0:45
Speaker 1: her run for Georgia governor and how to save democracy.
0:48
Speaker 1: And later on, Alyssa and I will answer some of
0:50
Speaker 1: your questions from the mailbag. But first, there is brand
0:54
Speaker 1: new Crooked merch. Check out the new work from home sweatshirts, tees,
0:57
Speaker 1: and mugs at the Crooked store. They will look great
0:59
Speaker 1: in any home office. I personally would encourage you to
1:02
Speaker 1: wear them, ironically, to your actual office if that's what
1:05
Speaker 1: you do. But you can figure that out yourselves. Shop
1:07
Speaker 1: all the new arrivals now at crooked.com slash store. All right, Alyssa,
1:11
Speaker 1: let's get to the news.
1:13
Speaker 3: All right.
1:14
Speaker 1: He's back. Donald Trump is having himself quite a week.
1:17
Speaker 1: After a year of relative absence from the political scene,
1:20
Speaker 1: the twice impeached former president is everywhere. First, the New
1:23
Speaker 1: York Times reported that Trump personally instructed Rudy Giuliani, the
1:27
Speaker 1: Masked Singer himself. to see if the Department of Homeland
1:29
Speaker 1: Security could seize voting machines and swing states. Yesterday, it
1:33
Speaker 1: came out that Trump associates wrote two memos right after
1:35
Speaker 1: the election, laying out a plot to keep him in
1:37
Speaker 1: power by using alternate electors. And if that wasn't enough,
1:40
Speaker 1: Trump spent the week releasing unhinged statements, recording ads, and
1:43
Speaker 1: being generally dumb and dangerous. All right, Alyssa, let's start
1:48
Speaker 1: with the most cooey of these revelations. I guess we
1:51
Speaker 1: should be glad these efforts went nowhere, but what's your
1:53
Speaker 1: reaction to finding out now that Trump or his associates
1:56
Speaker 1: try to get not one, not two, but three federal
2:00
Speaker 1: agencies to seize voting machines.
2:03
Speaker 4: I mean, buddy, look, it's been a long time since
2:06
Speaker 4: I've really engaged in any Trump.
2:08
Speaker 2: News for the most part. But when I first started
2:11
Speaker 2: reading this, I was.
2:12
Speaker 4: Like, did Shonda Rhimes reject this script for scandal? Because
2:18
Speaker 4: it is so fantastical and outrageous.
2:21
Speaker 1: It's not like.
2:23
Speaker 2: Unexpected.
2:24
Speaker 4: Like we know he very seriously and clearly wanted to
2:28
Speaker 4: overturn the election. But I mean, I guess my reaction
2:34
Speaker 4: was good for Barr, good for Cuccinelli for saying, no,
2:40
Speaker 4: DOJ is not going to do this. No, DHS is
2:42
Speaker 4: not going to do this. But at the same time,
2:44
Speaker 4: I want to make sure that we don't think either
2:46
Speaker 4: of them are heroes because up until that point, they
2:49
Speaker 4: had been enabling him mightily. And I mean- Flynn and
2:53
Speaker 4: Sidney Powell being like, let's, could you just imagine if,
2:57
Speaker 4: I mean, the fact that Flynn and Sidney Powell were
3:02
Speaker 4: so insane that they're like, let's have the military take
3:07
Speaker 4: the voting machines that even Trump was like, man, maybe
3:10
Speaker 4: a bridge too far.
3:12
Speaker 1: So he chose the Department of Homeland Security instead.
3:14
Speaker 3: Totally.
3:15
Speaker 1: It's like the military is a bridge too far, but
3:17
Speaker 1: the Department of Homeland Security, that makes more sense because
3:20
Speaker 1: the voting machines are In the homeland, right?
3:23
Speaker 5: Right.
3:24
Speaker 1: Yes, great. I wish I could remember the name of
3:26
Speaker 1: the principle that prevents the military from operating in the
3:28
Speaker 1: United States, but I'm glad that Trump could adhere to that.
3:30
Speaker 1: I mean, my take on this is it is a
3:35
Speaker 1: stupid plan put together by stupid people with no chance
3:38
Speaker 1: of success. Like what were they going to do when
3:40
Speaker 1: they had the voting machines? The votes have been counted.
3:43
Speaker 2: Let's be honest.
3:45
Speaker 1: What was going to happen next, right? They were just
3:47
Speaker 1: going to hold them?
3:48
Speaker 2: These are people who are building a bridge one brick
3:50
Speaker 2: at a time.
3:51
Speaker 4: Like there is no end game for these people.
3:53
Speaker 2: Well, overturning the election was the end game.
3:56
Speaker 4: But I mean, buddy, if they had gotten the voting machines,
4:00
Speaker 4: there just would have been like a group grope in
4:02
Speaker 4: the Oval Office. It's like, now what do we do?
4:04
Speaker 1: Well, I think there is something that about this that
4:08
Speaker 1: I think is relevant to sort of think about, which
4:10
Speaker 1: is the voting machine being seized is insane. It's stupid
4:17
Speaker 1: and it was never going to work under any scenarios.
4:19
Speaker 1: It's scary that people in power thought that they could
4:22
Speaker 1: do that, that they were so anti-democratic or brazen that
4:27
Speaker 1: they thought they should do that or they had the
4:29
Speaker 1: power to do that. It's so stupid to think that
4:30
Speaker 1: that could work. I think the danger in all of
4:34
Speaker 1: these things, whenever Trump does something that is basically fascist
4:38
Speaker 1: cosplay– is it distracts from the actual real threats, right?
4:43
Speaker 1: When he says, I'm going to seize voting machines, or
4:45
Speaker 1: I'm going to get the military to intervene, or we're
4:47
Speaker 1: going to shut down the press, or we're going to
4:48
Speaker 1: cancel election day. Those are things he can't do.
4:51
Speaker 5: Right.
4:52
Speaker 1: But there's a whole bunch of things he can do
4:54
Speaker 1: and is doing. And there's this danger that we'll be like, see,
4:57
Speaker 1: voting machines weren't seized, system worked, when that's not the case, right?
5:02
Speaker 1: It's the distraction from the actual plan to steal the
5:04
Speaker 1: next election is what's happening at the local level with
5:08
Speaker 1: these governor's races, secretary of state races, the laws being
5:12
Speaker 1: put in place that make it easy for state legislators
5:14
Speaker 1: to throw, all of that stuff is happening. We can't
5:16
Speaker 1: lose sight of that because, you know, as you say,
5:19
Speaker 1: there was like this Shonda Rhimes scandal plot happening before
5:22
Speaker 1: our eyes.
5:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
5:24
Speaker 4: I mean, I just feel like, I guess, I mean,
5:29
Speaker 4: I still think that he's, you know, like, because he's
5:32
Speaker 4: not on Twitter, because we don't see him as much,
5:34
Speaker 4: I think that for me, I will speak for myself personally,
5:37
Speaker 4: it is easy to lose sight of how dangerous and
5:40
Speaker 4: stupid he is. So I'm like super glad he's reminding
5:42
Speaker 4: us slowly but surely going into 2024.
5:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that is, it is, you know, when
5:47
Speaker 1: I say, like when I led this and said he's
5:49
Speaker 1: been largely absent from the political scene, there are a
5:51
Speaker 1: lot of people listening to the show who think he
5:52
Speaker 1: hasn't been absent at all because we talk about him.
5:54
Speaker 1: If you are deeply engaged in politics, you see the
5:57
Speaker 1: clips from his rallies or the clips from his insane
5:59
Speaker 1: interviews on networks that may not even be available in
6:01
Speaker 1: your cable package. So for the vast majority of the public,
6:05
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is as far from public front of mind
6:08
Speaker 1: as possible. But for his base, he's communicating with them
6:11
Speaker 1: on a very regular and I think pretty effective basis
6:13
Speaker 1: as we'll get into. So the reason we know about
6:16
Speaker 1: the voting machines and the memos is that the January
6:21
Speaker 1: 6th committee is working in the background. They're interviewing witnesses,
6:23
Speaker 1: they're issuing subpoenas, they're collecting documents. Trump seems a little
6:27
Speaker 1: bit rattled by this, I think. We saw this in
6:30
Speaker 1: the rally he held last weekend that John and Ben
6:33
Speaker 1: talked about. This week, Trump was workshopping some new defenses.
6:37
Speaker 1: Here's the first one. Let's take a listen from an
6:39
Speaker 1: interview he did with Newsmax.
6:40
Speaker 6: Did you authorize calling up the guard? And then it became.
6:46
Speaker 4: The chain of command went to Nancy Pelosi and to
6:49
Speaker 4: the mayor of D.C., Muriel Bowser.
6:51
Speaker 6: Did you, as required by law, authorize that?
6:55
Speaker 5: One hundred percent and attested to by many people. And
7:00
Speaker 5: they turned it down. Nancy Pelosi turned it down. I
7:04
Speaker 5: guess they both did, but Nancy Pelosi turned it down
7:07
Speaker 5: and she's in charge of the Capitol. So they run
7:10
Speaker 5: the Capitol, the security of the Capitol. If you had 10,000
7:14
Speaker 5: or 20,000, but if you had 10,000, if you had 5,000
7:18
Speaker 5: soldiers wrapped around the Capitol, you would have had no
7:22
Speaker 5: January 6th as we know it. There would have been
7:25
Speaker 5: no problem whatsoever.
7:27
Speaker 1: So Alyssa, are you convinced? Do you think this will work?
7:29
Speaker 1: Is it Nancy Pelosi's fault?
7:31
Speaker 2: Oh my God.
7:32
Speaker 4: Let me just tell you, for those 187 minutes he
7:35
Speaker 4: was sitting there doing absolutely nothing.
7:38
Speaker 2: No, I have a.
7:39
Speaker 4: Hard time believing that this is Nancy Pelosi's fault, who
7:44
Speaker 4: was screaming at the top of her lungs from the
7:47
Speaker 4: Capitol for people to send help, and no one did.
7:51
Speaker 1: Hearing that clip is just such, to the point we
7:54
Speaker 1: were just making, you just don't hear Trump speak that
7:56
Speaker 1: often anymore. And when you do, you just realize that
7:59
Speaker 1: He says a lot of words that are technically English,
8:03
Speaker 1: but when strung together, it means nothing. Almost nothing he
8:08
Speaker 1: said there was true. There's like six non sequiturs. I mean,
8:11
Speaker 1: it's truly wild.
8:13
Speaker 4: He is the actual king of word salad. There may
8:17
Speaker 4: be no one else who is better at word salad
8:19
Speaker 4: than he is.
8:20
Speaker 1: Once again, it's like, are people going to believe that
8:22
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi is responsible for for a group of Trump
8:26
Speaker 1: supporters leaving a rally that Trump invited them to, that
8:30
Speaker 1: Trump spoke at to go storm the Capitol, steal an
8:32
Speaker 1: election violently to make Trump president despite losing. No, I
8:36
Speaker 1: don't think people are going to believe that. But the
8:40
Speaker 1: way Trump does this is, I think, emblematic of how
8:44
Speaker 1: Republicans operate, Trump operates, and the right-wing media ecosystem operates,
8:48
Speaker 1: which is, there was this quote that Steve Bannon gave
8:53
Speaker 1: back when Trump was impeached the first time That where
8:56
Speaker 1: he said, you know, the reporters are sort of pushing
8:58
Speaker 1: him like, are you worried? As you can understand, Trump
9:01
Speaker 1: was on tape admitting committing the crime. And he was like, no,
9:06
Speaker 1: he said basically our enemy is not the Democrats. It's
9:08
Speaker 1: the media. And what we're going to do is flood
9:10
Speaker 1: the zone with shit. And that is the what you
9:12
Speaker 1: have to understand about all right wing messaging is that
9:15
Speaker 1: phrase flood the zone with shit. And so you just
9:18
Speaker 1: say things right. It's Nancy Pelosi's fault. It's Mike. It's
9:20
Speaker 1: these people's fault. It's these people's fault. And what you're
9:23
Speaker 1: doing and what right-wing propaganda disinformation depends on is cynicism
9:28
Speaker 1: and skepticism. Cynicism about politics and skepticism about the media
9:33
Speaker 1: that tells you about politics. And so people throw up
9:35
Speaker 1: their arms. They're like, I don't know. Who am I
9:38
Speaker 1: supposed to believe? Donald Trump? That guy seems like a liar.
9:41
Speaker 1: The New York Times? Those guys seem in the tank
9:43
Speaker 1: for someone. I don't know. And it's just... And that's
9:45
Speaker 1: what authoritarians want. They want you to give up, right?
9:48
Speaker 1: To think you have no power in this. And so...
9:52
Speaker 1: We are laughing about it. We should laugh about it,
9:54
Speaker 1: because laughing is always better than crying. But this is
9:58
Speaker 1: the strategy Trump used to get out of both of
10:00
Speaker 1: his impeachments. It is to just throw. I mean, if
10:04
Speaker 1: you remember during the first impeachment, he blamed Ukraine for
10:09
Speaker 1: interfering in the election.
10:10
Speaker 2: Right.
10:11
Speaker 5: Right.
10:11
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a bunch of completely insane, mind-blowing things.
10:16
Speaker 1: Sometimes Like the most effective lies are ones that are
10:19
Speaker 1: so insane they can't possibly be believed. And you're just like, fuck,
10:21
Speaker 1: I don't know. And so I don't think he's not
10:24
Speaker 1: going to convince a lot of people that matters that
10:26
Speaker 1: it's Nancy Pelosi's fault, but he can convince some people
10:28
Speaker 1: to just give up and tune out.
10:30
Speaker 5: Right.
10:31
Speaker 4: Like he can continue to convince his do or die
10:34
Speaker 4: base that they've been right all along, that she's crooked,
10:38
Speaker 4: that the system's rigged against them. And it just keeps
10:43
Speaker 4: them sort of, I think, frothing at the mouth, right?
10:47
Speaker 2: It's like he feeds them.
10:49
Speaker 4: It's the care and feeding needed to keep the 20%
10:53
Speaker 4: of America or whatever.
10:54
Speaker 2: Do you think it's as much as 20 who like
10:56
Speaker 2: really love him?
10:58
Speaker 1: I mean, it's of America.
11:00
Speaker 2: Of America, right?
11:01
Speaker 1: Of voters. It's, you know, the guy has an 85%
11:05
Speaker 1: approval rating among Republicans. About 30 some percent of Americans
11:08
Speaker 1: itself are never as Republican. So it's a little higher.
11:11
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do math in this situation for safety.
11:14
Speaker 2: No, I mean, rounding. We're just rounding.
11:16
Speaker 1: You know, it definitely is his base, right? In some ways,
11:19
Speaker 1: I think we trick ourselves. He's just like, what do
11:21
Speaker 1: we care what he tells his base? They're going to
11:22
Speaker 1: vote for him no matter what. That's it. But there
11:24
Speaker 1: is this other group of people who we as Democrats
11:27
Speaker 1: are trying to either get involved in politics for the
11:29
Speaker 1: first time or keep them involved in politics. And this
11:32
Speaker 1: sort of stuff can, particularly at times when people are
11:36
Speaker 1: down or depressed or frustrated with people in power who
11:39
Speaker 1: happen to be Democrats, just sort of sowing cynicism helps
11:43
Speaker 1: a minority party trying to hold power in a country
11:46
Speaker 1: that is very quickly leaving them ideologically and demographically.
11:50
Speaker 5: Right.
11:50
Speaker 4: I mean, this kind of chitchat, you know, his, his
11:53
Speaker 4: blaming Pelosi and things like that, it really just helps
11:57
Speaker 4: foment this idea that like, it's all fucked, you know,
12:00
Speaker 4: why engage? Because maybe she is corrupt and maybe, you know,
12:05
Speaker 4: maybe he's fucked up, but maybe he's not as fucked
12:07
Speaker 4: up as we think he is. So, yeah, I mean
12:08
Speaker 4: like what he's saying, definitely, definitely we're laughing, but it's
12:11
Speaker 4: definitely not funny.
12:14
Speaker 1: This part's a little funnier to me, but, Okay. The
12:17
Speaker 1: other defense Trump trotted out this week was he released
12:20
Speaker 1: a statement calling on the 1-6 Committee to investigate Mike
12:24
Speaker 1: Pence for the crime of certifying the election. So we
12:29
Speaker 1: expect Trump will run for president again. We expect he's
12:32
Speaker 1: likely the Republican nominee if he does. If he is,
12:34
Speaker 1: he's going to have to find another vice president. I
12:35
Speaker 1: presume Mike Pence is not going to be invited back. Alyssa,
12:39
Speaker 1: you are I think everyone would agree, the foremost expert
12:42
Speaker 1: on the vice presidential selection process on the planet. You
12:44
Speaker 1: helped run it for John Kerry.
12:45
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
12:47
Speaker 1: You helped run it for Barack Obama. You were involved
12:51
Speaker 1: in a very important Pod Save America miniseries called That's
12:54
Speaker 1: the Ticket with yours truly. So thinking about what Donald
12:58
Speaker 1: Trump's interviews with potential vice presidents will be next time,
13:01
Speaker 1: what do you think the first question he's going to
13:03
Speaker 1: ask is?
13:05
Speaker 4: Oh, oh, Pfeiffer, how could you try to trip me
13:08
Speaker 4: up with such a tough one? I mean, look, it's
13:11
Speaker 4: like sometimes like we know that everything Trump does in
13:15
Speaker 4: some way, shape, or form is influenced by television, right?
13:19
Speaker 4: Like he's always when he's considering any move, he's always like,
13:26
Speaker 4: what does this person look like?
13:27
Speaker 2: Do they look the part? What would this look like
13:29
Speaker 2: on the news when it's reported? Blah, blah, blah.
13:31
Speaker 4: And when I saw this question, I was just like,
13:36
Speaker 4: He's like watching Taken.
13:38
Speaker 2: He's watching Liam Neeson.
13:39
Speaker 4: And like when these VP folks are coming in for
13:41
Speaker 4: their interviews, he's going to be like, you're about to
13:44
Speaker 4: be taken. Like you will be a wholly owned subsidiary
13:47
Speaker 4: of Trump Inc. And if you're not down for that,
13:49
Speaker 4: like keep on moving. I mean, it's like I feel
13:53
Speaker 4: like his interviews will be like succession level blood oath type,
14:00
Speaker 4: you know, blood oath type expressions of loyalty.
14:05
Speaker 1: I mean, are you willing to overturn the election, to
14:10
Speaker 1: use this power that I think you have but no
14:13
Speaker 1: one else agrees to overturn the election? That is the test.
14:16
Speaker 1: Nothing else matters. You could be a registered Democrat. You
14:19
Speaker 1: could have every scandal under the book, disagree with Trump
14:22
Speaker 1: on every policy issue. But if you are willing to
14:25
Speaker 1: overturn the election, you will do it. And my suspicion
14:27
Speaker 1: is that every Republican politician with any ounce of national
14:32
Speaker 1: ambitions would say yes to that question.
14:34
Speaker 2: It's not just that.
14:35
Speaker 4: I feel like there's an added level, like bring your
14:39
Speaker 4: plan for overturning the government.
14:43
Speaker 1: It's like a writing exercise. He puts him in a
14:46
Speaker 1: room with Steve Miller, a piece of paper and a pen.
14:48
Speaker 1: It is like, you have 30 minutes to give me
14:50
Speaker 1: a thousand words on how to steal the election.
14:52
Speaker 2: Go, because that's all the time we may have IRL.
14:55
Speaker 2: So like, show me what you're made of.
14:58
Speaker 1: So in thinking about this, I think there's a couple
15:01
Speaker 1: parts of it. One is, I gotta be honest with you.
15:04
Speaker 1: I don't like Mike Pence.
15:06
Speaker 5: No.
15:07
Speaker 2: I mean, was there ever a question?
15:08
Speaker 1: I just want to preface what I'm going to say
15:12
Speaker 1: right now by saying I'm very anti-Mike Pence. I hated
15:16
Speaker 1: Mike Pence before he was Donald Trump's running mate. Mike
15:19
Speaker 1: Pence was a terrible human being before he was governor
15:22
Speaker 1: of Indiana. His terribleness dates back to when he was
15:25
Speaker 1: a schlocky right-wing radio host writing columns about the dangers
15:30
Speaker 1: of Disney princesses like Mulan. I mean, he's a terrible person.
15:33
Speaker 1: And I think he should spend the rest of his
15:34
Speaker 1: time on this planet doing a Game of Thrones-style walk
15:37
Speaker 1: of shame for everything that he has done in his life.
15:42
Speaker 1: So I'm enjoying the focus of the Republicans and Trump
15:49
Speaker 1: on Mike Pence's role here. But I think it's worth
15:53
Speaker 1: stating that much a little bit like the voting machines.
15:55
Speaker 5: Yeah.
15:56
Speaker 1: The power of the vice president to overturn the election
15:59
Speaker 1: is another giant distraction. First and foremost, for the most
16:04
Speaker 1: important reason, which is in 2024, the next time this
16:07
Speaker 1: plan will be put in place, Kamala Harris is the
16:11
Speaker 1: vice president. So it's like it's the one thing of
16:15
Speaker 1: all the ways in which the Republicans are going to
16:16
Speaker 1: steal the next election. The role of the vice president
16:18
Speaker 1: is the only one we don't have to worry about.
16:21
Speaker 1: So all this stuff about fixing electoral counts, how we
16:24
Speaker 1: clarify that role, that's fine. But that's going to do
16:26
Speaker 1: nothing to stop them from stealing. There's a whole bunch
16:28
Speaker 1: of other stuff that's happening at the state level with
16:33
Speaker 1: a Republican House, Republican Senate to do alternate states of
16:36
Speaker 1: electors or reject electors from states. So the vice president
16:39
Speaker 1: thing is this, I think, giant distraction. But I don't
16:43
Speaker 1: want anyone to stop attacking from either right or left
16:46
Speaker 1: to stop attacking Mike Pence. Does that make sense?
16:50
Speaker 2: I mean, it does.
16:51
Speaker 6: It does.
16:51
Speaker 4: And he does fall into the same category as the
16:54
Speaker 4: cooch and Bill Barr, which is like, look, you enabled
16:58
Speaker 4: him up to the point it became something that world governments,
17:03
Speaker 4: you know, foreign governments might have to mobilize to help
17:06
Speaker 4: save America.
17:07
Speaker 2: Like that is the point at which you were like, uncle,
17:09
Speaker 2: too much.
17:10
Speaker 4: So, you know, there is no taking the foot off
17:14
Speaker 4: the gas of going after Pence on this because He
17:17
Speaker 4: literally just did the right thing after they threatened.
17:19
Speaker 2: To hang him.
17:21
Speaker 1: I mean, he just failed to do the wrong thing.
17:23
Speaker 1: He basically just showed up. That was the one thing
17:25
Speaker 1: he did.
17:25
Speaker 4: Good point.
17:26
Speaker 1: He stood like what goes for brave in the Republican
17:28
Speaker 1: Party now is standing silently for 15 minutes before running out.
17:31
Speaker 5: Of the room.
17:33
Speaker 1: Is Cooch the official designated nickname for Ken Cuccinelli?
17:36
Speaker 2: Honestly, I came up with it right now and I
17:38
Speaker 2: thought it was kind of fun.
17:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, great. If he ever becomes relevant or
17:42
Speaker 1: doesn't end up in jail, we can resurrect it.
17:45
Speaker 5: Okay.
17:46
Speaker 2: I get credit, though.
17:47
Speaker 1: So we've been talking a lot about what Trump did
17:50
Speaker 1: in the past. But right now, he is also exerting
17:54
Speaker 1: his control over the party, trying to ensure that people
17:57
Speaker 1: who believe the big lie and are willing to steal
18:00
Speaker 1: the next election are in power. This week, Trump endorsed
18:02
Speaker 1: David Perdue, who is challenging Brancamp as governor of Georgia.
18:06
Speaker 1: Trump even cut an ad. Let's listen to a part
18:08
Speaker 1: of the ad here. A message from President Trump.
18:11
Speaker 3: The Democrats walked all over Brian Kemp. He was afraid
18:15
Speaker 3: of Stacey, the hoax Abrams. Brian Kemp let us down.
18:19
Speaker 3: We can't let it happen again. David Perdue is an
18:23
Speaker 3: outstanding man. He's tough.
18:25
Speaker 1: He's smart.
18:26
Speaker 3: He has my complete and total endorsement.
18:29
Speaker 1: And if you want to actually watch the Donald Trump
18:31
Speaker 1: after David Perdue, check out the video version of this
18:33
Speaker 1: podcast on YouTube. Alyssa is a multi-time guest on the
18:36
Speaker 1: hit YouTube series Campaign Experts React. What do you think
18:39
Speaker 1: of this ad? And what impact do you think it'll
18:41
Speaker 1: have on the Republicans beyond Georgia?
18:44
Speaker 2: So what do I think about this ad?
18:46
Speaker 4: I think that if Stacey Abrams wanted to become a
18:49
Speaker 4: UFC fighter, Stacey the Hoax Abrams is a pretty good name. Look,
18:54
Speaker 4: it's like watching this ad at first blush, to me,
18:57
Speaker 4: it looks like an SNL skit, right? It's super low budget.
19:01
Speaker 4: It is the voiceover. But it's basically... It says what
19:05
Speaker 4: his base wants to hear, right? If the people he's
19:08
Speaker 4: trying to get to vote for David Perdue think that,
19:12
Speaker 4: you know, Brian Kemp is some, you know, Democratic sympathizer,
19:17
Speaker 4: I mean, it's effective, I guess, right?
19:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Brian Kemp is as conservative as the
19:24
Speaker 1: day is long. Donald Trump endorsed him in 2018, which
19:28
Speaker 1: is the primary reason why Brian Kemp won that primary
19:31
Speaker 1: and eventually won the governorship. He is someone who engaged
19:35
Speaker 1: in outrageous voter suppression to defeat Stacey Abrams in 2018,
19:39
Speaker 1: including massive purges of the rolls that disproportionately affected Black voters.
19:44
Speaker 1: He is a COVID truther, been anti-mask. I mean, just
19:48
Speaker 1: terrible in every way, shape, or form. His only sin,
19:52
Speaker 1: his only sin in the eyes of Donald Trump is
19:54
Speaker 1: that he was unwilling to break the law to overturn
19:59
Speaker 1: the election. And that's the message, right? The message is,
20:03
Speaker 1: the audience is obviously Georgia voters. That's what David Perdue
20:06
Speaker 1: put in an ad being shown to Georgia voters. But
20:08
Speaker 1: the real audience here is the rest of Republican party,
20:11
Speaker 1: which is either you help me steal elections. You help
20:16
Speaker 1: support the big lie. The election was stolen from me,
20:20
Speaker 1: or I'm going to turn my political organization and my
20:24
Speaker 1: power and my brand against you. And you're going to lose.
20:27
Speaker 1: And if you look at Donald Trump's record in primaries,
20:30
Speaker 1: at least before 2020, if you, Donald Trump came out
20:34
Speaker 1: against you in almost every single situation, you lost in
20:38
Speaker 1: some MAGA enthusiast one.
20:40
Speaker 3: Right. Right.
20:40
Speaker 1: Whether that was Adam Putnam losing in Florida, who was
20:44
Speaker 1: long expected, the Agriculture Commissioner, I believe, who was long
20:46
Speaker 1: expected to be the next governor. We end up with
20:48
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis. Donald Trump may end up regretting that. If
20:52
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis runs against him, be careful what you wish
20:53
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump. Same thing with Brian Kemp. And so
20:57
Speaker 1: like there is, you know, is this going to work
20:59
Speaker 1: with Republican voters in Georgia? Sure. Like what? Probably. Right.
21:03
Speaker 3: Is it?
21:03
Speaker 1: But the, you know, the real thing is, what is
21:05
Speaker 1: it going to mean for The people, the candidates who
21:08
Speaker 1: are going to run against Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan or
21:13
Speaker 1: Tony Evers in Wisconsin, or you're going to run for
21:16
Speaker 1: the Arizona governance race. Like the message is, if you
21:19
Speaker 1: want the help of Trump and Trump's political organization just
21:21
Speaker 1: announced it had 120, I think $ 123 million in the bank.
21:25
Speaker 1: So they're, you know, they have, I mean, it's a
21:28
Speaker 1: super PAC, it's a super PAC, but it is, you know,
21:32
Speaker 1: that's a lot of muscle that And we sort of know,
21:35
Speaker 1: as Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, where the prevailing political
21:39
Speaker 1: winds are blowing, and you end up with a party that,
21:42
Speaker 1: by definition, that the only way to win a Republican
21:46
Speaker 1: primary is to support the big lie and express a
21:49
Speaker 1: willingness to steal the next election. And that is where–
21:52
Speaker 1: and that is, to me, the scary part of this.
21:55
Speaker 2: Do you think, though, that it ever works against them?
21:59
Speaker 3: Right?
22:00
Speaker 4: If you always have to steal the election but you win,
22:02
Speaker 4: then– Is it only fair when you win?
22:06
Speaker 1: You mean heads I win, tails you lose sort of situation?
22:09
Speaker 5: Yeah.
22:10
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the signature question in American politics
22:17
Speaker 1: is can you run against democracy? Can you flagrantly and
22:24
Speaker 1: blatantly stick your nose in the eye of everything that
22:27
Speaker 1: America likes to think it is? Can you essentially run
22:30
Speaker 1: an anti-American campaign and win? And the answer to that
22:36
Speaker 1: is going to be determined by what we do. Can
22:39
Speaker 1: they get away with it? It's like, are we going
22:40
Speaker 1: to let them? And we doesn't mean, in my mind,
22:43
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer.
22:45
Speaker 6: No.
22:45
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi. It means- Everybody. Everyone. Is the coalition that
22:52
Speaker 1: came together to defeat Donald Trump, that won the House
22:56
Speaker 1: in 2018, won the White House in 2020, and then
22:58
Speaker 1: took the Senate in 2021- Is that coalition going to
23:00
Speaker 1: come back again and defeat Trumpism without Trump on the ballot?
23:03
Speaker 1: That's the question. That's the only way it's going to work.
23:05
Speaker 1: We know that they're not going to be persuaded by
23:07
Speaker 1: good sense, by guilt, by shame. And they're probably going to,
23:11
Speaker 1: because of the way the courts are rigged, get away.
23:14
Speaker 1: The law is not going to be a barrier to them. Right.
23:16
Speaker 1: Accountability in politics is delivered at the ballot box. And
23:19
Speaker 1: that is the opportunity and responsibility that we have in 2022.
23:23
Speaker 1: And obviously, these are, as we sit here today, suboptimal
23:26
Speaker 1: political conditions. The history is against us. The structure is
23:29
Speaker 1: against us. The mood of the country is currently against us.
23:31
Speaker 1: But can we rise above that and push back against
23:35
Speaker 1: this to send a message that it does not work?
23:38
Speaker 1: That is what we're going to have to figure out
23:39
Speaker 1: in the coming months.
23:41
Speaker 5: Wow.
23:42
Speaker 2: It sounds like a lot of fun.
23:44
Speaker 1: It is. Can you imagine? This is the thing, right?
23:51
Speaker 1: Lovett told a story on Tuesday's pod about he was
23:54
Speaker 1: writing when he worked for then-Senator Clinton, he wrote a
23:58
Speaker 1: climate change speech, I think it was, and that he
24:01
Speaker 1: got edits from Bill Clinton. And one of the edits
24:05
Speaker 1: that Bill Clinton made was he had to make it
24:07
Speaker 1: seem like the battle against climate change would be a
24:10
Speaker 1: joyful exercise, right? That it would be a big thing
24:12
Speaker 1: that we could all do together, you know, not drudgery, right?
24:15
Speaker 1: Now that we're going to have to slog through it.
24:17
Speaker 1: And I think that's going to be, you know, and
24:18
Speaker 1: it's hard to do for all of us, you know,
24:21
Speaker 1: we're stuck in this pandemic and everything else is going on,
24:23
Speaker 1: to reinforce the The joy of politics, the joy of
24:29
Speaker 1: being in democracy. Think about the look on Donald Trump's
24:36
Speaker 1: face if we not only hold the Senate but expand
24:39
Speaker 1: our majority. This is what I would think about, which is,
24:43
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk to her in a few
24:45
Speaker 1: minutes here, but think about Donald Trump's reaction to Stacey
24:52
Speaker 1: Abrams being elected governor on election night. That is something
24:55
Speaker 1: to be fucking excited about.
24:56
Speaker 4: I hope Crooked's merchandising marketing team is listening because I
25:01
Speaker 4: think sweatshirts that say joyful democracy are what we all need.
25:05
Speaker 4: Because if I, watching Stacey Abrams become governor, I mean,
25:10
Speaker 4: that is joy to the polls if I ever.
25:13
Speaker 1: Well, that was a perfect segue. Up next, I talk
25:17
Speaker 1: to Stacey Abrams about her run for governor and what
25:19
Speaker 1: we all can do to save democracy. Joining us now
25:29
Speaker 1: is longtime Pod Save America favorite and the next governor
25:33
Speaker 1: of Georgia, Stacey Abrams. Welcome back to Pod Save America.
25:37
Speaker 6: Thank you for having me.
25:38
Speaker 1: So you last ran for governor four years ago, which
25:41
Speaker 1: seems like not that long ago, but it was one pandemic,
25:44
Speaker 1: one insurrection, a whole raft of voter suppression laws ago.
25:49
Speaker 1: The world has changed. Georgia has changed. How are you
25:52
Speaker 1: approaching this campaign in 2022 differently than you did in 2018?
25:54
Speaker 1: I begin by.
25:59
Speaker 7: Recognizing that while we have to speak about a vision
26:02
Speaker 7: for the future and the opportunities we want to create,
26:05
Speaker 7: where we have a thoughtful conversation about what we can
26:10
Speaker 7: do together, we have to acknowledge the real pain people
26:13
Speaker 7: are feeling. And that unlike other moments in history where
26:17
Speaker 7: it was an economic crisis or a social crisis or
26:21
Speaker 7: a healthcare crisis, we are facing all three at the
26:23
Speaker 7: same time. And we've got to give people permission to
26:27
Speaker 7: be worried and to be but to also know that
26:32
Speaker 7: that pain is being met with real plans for their
26:35
Speaker 7: success and that we're not going to be stuck here.
26:39
Speaker 7: One of the challenges I see with the current governor
26:42
Speaker 7: is this sense that if we just close our eyes
26:44
Speaker 7: and don't pay attention, it'll disappear.
26:46
Speaker 6: It's like playing hide and seek with a kid.
26:48
Speaker 7: They think if they close their eyes, you can't see them. Well,
26:52
Speaker 7: we need someone, a leader who actually sees the problems
26:55
Speaker 7: and is willing to do something about it. And this
26:58
Speaker 7: campaign is going to be about showing in the way
27:00
Speaker 7: we campaign, in the conversations we have, in the work
27:03
Speaker 7: we do, showing that we actually see what Georgians are
27:06
Speaker 7: facing and that no matter who you are and how
27:09
Speaker 7: you vote, that my mission is to serve you and
27:12
Speaker 7: to serve the whole state.
27:15
Speaker 1: When you're out talking to Georgians, what are you hearing most?
27:18
Speaker 1: Is it the pandemic? Is it inflation? Is it the
27:21
Speaker 1: assault on democracy we're facing? What is top of mind
27:24
Speaker 1: for the people whose votes you're seeking?
27:27
Speaker 7: It's a combination and it depends on where you find yourself.
27:32
Speaker 7: If you're in one of the parts of Georgia where
27:35
Speaker 7: not only is the pandemic ravaging your community, but your
27:38
Speaker 7: hospitals have shut down, then you're worried about survival. But
27:42
Speaker 7: you're also worried about the fact that you can't take
27:44
Speaker 7: time off of your job because you are worried that
27:48
Speaker 7: it may not be there when you get back.
27:49
Speaker 6: And so.
27:52
Speaker 7: Yes, there's this labor conversation that's happening, but for a
27:55
Speaker 7: lot of Georgians, that's not their reality. They're still trying
27:58
Speaker 7: to meet these schedules and these obligations that are putting
28:02
Speaker 7: a lot of pressure. You've got others who are absolutely
28:05
Speaker 7: concerned about the assault on democracy because they have seen
28:09
Speaker 7: in real time what it means to have leaders who
28:11
Speaker 7: actually care about you. And for everyone, the economic pressures
28:15
Speaker 7: in Georgia are real. There are some who've done really
28:17
Speaker 7: well during the pandemic, but so many more people are
28:20
Speaker 7: know that their wages were already far behind before this hit.
28:24
Speaker 7: And because Georgia still has a $ 5. 15 minimum wage, and
28:29
Speaker 7: because we are a state that has not spent the
28:32
Speaker 7: resources coming our way on the people who deserve it,
28:34
Speaker 7: and we've got millions of dollars in eviction money that
28:38
Speaker 7: we are sending back or reallocating because the job wasn't done.
28:43
Speaker 6: That's what people care about.
28:45
Speaker 7: They want to know that there's a match between the
28:48
Speaker 7: resources that are available to And someone being willing to
28:52
Speaker 7: help them just get through this.
28:55
Speaker 1: When you, sort of the national narrative, right? And we've
29:00
Speaker 1: seen this in some recent polls in Georgia, is that
29:02
Speaker 1: people are in a funk, right? They're upset about inflation.
29:05
Speaker 1: They're worn out by the pandemic. You know, your strategy
29:09
Speaker 1: in 2018, which got you the most votes of any
29:11
Speaker 1: Democrat in that state in history at that point, and
29:14
Speaker 1: then the work you did from 2018 to 2020 was
29:15
Speaker 1: about an getting people to believe in the political process,
29:20
Speaker 1: to take agency for themselves. What's your message to someone
29:24
Speaker 1: who maybe got involved in politics that worked for you
29:26
Speaker 1: in 2018, turned around, elected Joe Biden in 2020, got
29:30
Speaker 1: right back up off the mat and elected John Ossoff
29:33
Speaker 1: and Raphael Warnock just a few months later in 2021,
29:37
Speaker 1: but who may feel discouraged or disenchanted about either the
29:41
Speaker 1: state of the world or how politics, you know, what
29:44
Speaker 1: maybe hasn't been done yet in Washington. How do you
29:46
Speaker 1: keep them hopeful and engaged?
29:50
Speaker 7: The first job is to be honest and to acknowledge
29:52
Speaker 7: the legitimacy of the funk. This has been a hard
29:56
Speaker 7: four years, a hard three years. This has been difficult
30:00
Speaker 7: because not only to your earlier question, there's an economic
30:04
Speaker 7: crisis that is not what we thought it would be,
30:07
Speaker 7: but it's still maddening and it's hard and it's making
30:11
Speaker 7: you worry. There is a political crisis that's not just
30:15
Speaker 7: about politicians, but about who we intend to be and
30:18
Speaker 7: whether we even like each other. And there is absolutely
30:22
Speaker 7: this health crisis that feels permanent, but also feels like
30:27
Speaker 7: could go away if we just did one more thing.
30:30
Speaker 7: And so part of the conversation is to talk about
30:33
Speaker 7: the efficacy of politics, but not talk about it as politics.
30:36
Speaker 7: People care about their lives and they want to know
30:39
Speaker 7: that you understand their life. You may not have the
30:42
Speaker 7: same one, but they want to know that you understand
30:44
Speaker 7: it and that you're willing to help. And the ethos
30:47
Speaker 7: that I want everyone who works with me to carry
30:50
Speaker 7: into the field is this conversation of how can I help?
30:54
Speaker 7: Because people want to tell you what their problem is.
30:58
Speaker 7: They want you to listen. Then they want you to
31:01
Speaker 7: give them opportunities to make it better. It's not just
31:04
Speaker 7: about pouring out your soul. It's about knowing that someone's
31:09
Speaker 7: there to receive your concerns and to be your partner.
31:12
Speaker 7: And that's why our theme is One Georgia. And for me,
31:16
Speaker 7: it comes from my own family. I'm the second of
31:18
Speaker 7: six children. We are incredibly different. And we do not
31:21
Speaker 7: always get along. But we are always there for one another.
31:24
Speaker 7: And when there are challenges, we rally for each other,
31:29
Speaker 7: knowing that our challenges are different.
31:31
Speaker 6: But together, if we do this, we get better.
31:33
Speaker 7: And that's the conversation we have to have in Georgia,
31:36
Speaker 7: that we've got different challenges depending on where you are.
31:39
Speaker 7: And those challenges are real. They are not a figment
31:42
Speaker 7: of your imagination. And you shouldn't just, you know, shoulder through.
31:46
Speaker 7: but that you should have a partner in your leadership
31:49
Speaker 7: and your government to help you get there and help
31:52
Speaker 7: you navigate it. And when we have that honest conversation,
31:55
Speaker 7: it takes a little longer, but the reality is then
31:58
Speaker 7: people are willing to trust a little bit longer and
32:01
Speaker 7: do a little bit more. It's why they came back
32:04
Speaker 7: for Warnock and Ossoff. It's why they voted for Biden
32:07
Speaker 7: despite the 2018 debacle. And it's why in 22, we
32:11
Speaker 7: can win because we're not going to be dishonest about
32:14
Speaker 7: what we face but we're also not going to be
32:17
Speaker 7: hopeless about what's possible.
32:19
Speaker 1: You've brought up health crisis a couple of times in
32:22
Speaker 1: this conversation, and I'm interpreting that to mean that there
32:25
Speaker 1: is a longstanding health crisis that has been massively exacerbated
32:31
Speaker 1: by this pandemic. What would Governor Abrams do differently, both
32:34
Speaker 1: to address that longer healthcare crisis, but also in how
32:37
Speaker 1: the pandemic is managed in Georgia?
32:39
Speaker 7: Expand Medicaid, which sounds like an overly simplistic answer, but
32:43
Speaker 7: it is one of the most densely effective solutions.
32:48
Speaker 6: To these challenges.
32:49
Speaker 7: It is billions of dollars to hire and staff medical
32:54
Speaker 7: facilities throughout the state. It is 66,000 jobs across an
32:59
Speaker 7: array of skill sets that can pay livable wages. It
33:03
Speaker 7: is the investment in communities because when you do this,
33:08
Speaker 7: when you expand Medicaid, you're suddenly going to increase property taxes,
33:12
Speaker 7: which means your schools get better. You're gonna have access
33:15
Speaker 7: to revenue for the things that your communities need to
33:18
Speaker 7: be resilient and to respond. And for communities that have
33:21
Speaker 7: no hospitals, we've got a county in Georgia that has
33:25
Speaker 7: no hospital and where someone died because it took them
33:28
Speaker 7: two hours to get to Alabama because they had a
33:31
Speaker 7: heart condition. We've got another county that has medical facilities,
33:35
Speaker 7: but not many, where one in every 100 citizens has
33:39
Speaker 7: died from COVID. And so Medicaid expansion is an infusion
33:42
Speaker 7: of capital that is focused on the public health infrastructure
33:45
Speaker 7: of the state, but it's also an opportunity to address
33:49
Speaker 7: the socioeconomic issues that often exacerbate, to your point, a
33:54
Speaker 7: crisis like the pandemic.
33:57
Speaker 1: And there's been this sort of debate among all sorts
34:00
Speaker 1: of people, political people, medical people, about whether how we
34:03
Speaker 1: think about the pandemic is either something we have to
34:06
Speaker 1: learn to live with or an emergency we continue to combat.
34:09
Speaker 1: How do you think about that?
34:12
Speaker 7: I think we're going to move from pandemic to endemic,
34:15
Speaker 7: meaning that like the flu, there's going to be some
34:20
Speaker 7: version of SARS-19, of COVID-19 that remains with us. This
34:28
Speaker 7: is a worldwide phenomenon and it is not suddenly going
34:31
Speaker 7: to evaporate and disappear. But what living with it looks
34:36
Speaker 7: like is the difference between are we trying to live
34:40
Speaker 7: with Omicron and Delta, or are we trying to live
34:44
Speaker 7: with a really bad strain of the flu where, yes,
34:48
Speaker 7: we have to be serious and intentional, but where we
34:51
Speaker 7: also acknowledge that if we do the things that we
34:54
Speaker 7: need to do, we can minimize the risk and the harm.
34:58
Speaker 7: I think we cannot speed through this. There is no
35:03
Speaker 7: on or off switch, but that we have to be
35:07
Speaker 7: thoughtful about where we are when we're addressing it. George
35:10
Speaker 7: is in a terrible place. Because we have one of
35:12
Speaker 7: the lowest vaccination rates and we have remarkable disdain for
35:17
Speaker 7: responsibility from our governor who has announced with pride that
35:21
Speaker 7: he has no plan other than just being governor while
35:27
Speaker 7: it's happening. And so depending on where you live, it
35:30
Speaker 7: can get better. I know that Governor Polis in Colorado
35:33
Speaker 7: has done a really good job of balancing expectation and
35:38
Speaker 7: delivery of services. We need leaders who actually see that
35:44
Speaker 7: the challenges are going to be with us, but so
35:47
Speaker 7: are the solutions. And we've got to do more to
35:49
Speaker 7: make the solutions accessible, sustainable, and repeatable.
35:56
Speaker 1: This has been a big week in the Georgia gubernatorial race.
35:59
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has waded in. He endorsed the opponent of
36:05
Speaker 1: Brian Kemp, the incumbent governor. And ran an ad. He
36:09
Speaker 1: not only endorsed him, he appeared in an ad. It's
36:11
Speaker 1: one of the first times we've seen Donald Trump on
36:13
Speaker 1: TV in a long time that wasn't Fox News or Newsmax.
36:16
Speaker 1: And you're a star in that ad. Because from what
36:19
Speaker 1: I can tell, Donald Trump's primary reason, his two reasons
36:22
Speaker 1: for wanting to endorse David Perdue over Brian Kemp. One
36:26
Speaker 1: is he thought Brian Kemp was insufficiently involved in overturning
36:32
Speaker 1: the election. Although maybe Kemp has pledged to be more
36:34
Speaker 1: involved next time. And that he doesn't think that Brian
36:38
Speaker 1: Kemp can stop you. The ad ends with, stop, Stacey.
36:41
Speaker 1: What was your reaction to that? Do you take it
36:43
Speaker 1: as a compliment that you're already living rent-free in their heads?
36:48
Speaker 7: There are alliterative attempts to demean me notwithstanding. I am
36:56
Speaker 7: a uniquely unifying force because– I was part of doing
37:01
Speaker 7: something they didn't think could happen, which is shifting the
37:04
Speaker 7: balance of power in the state. But I also recognize
37:08
Speaker 7: that the fight is not just about me. I'm an
37:13
Speaker 7: avatar for the changes that are happening in the state.
37:17
Speaker 7: And I happen to have a name people know and
37:21
Speaker 7: I'm not going anywhere, but you know, look, I don't
37:24
Speaker 7: see it as a compliment or an insult. I think
37:26
Speaker 7: it's their intention to try to ignore the, their own
37:31
Speaker 7: internal failings by using prestidigitation and saying, focus on her.
37:35
Speaker 7: My job is to focus on Georgia and make sure
37:39
Speaker 7: that's what I talk about, that's what I do, and
37:40
Speaker 7: let them fight it out.
37:44
Speaker 1: As you think about your race, there is obviously everything
37:49
Speaker 1: that you want to do for Georgia, healthcare, dealing with
37:52
Speaker 1: the economy, all of that. But also, what happens in
37:55
Speaker 1: this Georgia governance race is going to have a tremendous
37:57
Speaker 1: impact in whether the votes of Georgians will potentially be
38:03
Speaker 1: counted in 2024. How are you thinking about that responsibility?
38:06
Speaker 1: Is that something that you're hearing from voters or as
38:08
Speaker 1: part of your message?
38:10
Speaker 7: Well, we are ground zero both for voter suppression, but
38:13
Speaker 7: we are also a proof point that you can push
38:16
Speaker 7: back and you can push through. What we were able
38:20
Speaker 7: to do in 2020 and 2021 is a direct result
38:24
Speaker 7: of the efforts that were put in in 2018 and
38:25
Speaker 7: in 2019. And so we know that there is a
38:29
Speaker 7: way to navigate and circumvent and to overwhelm voter suppression,
38:37
Speaker 7: but that doesn't diminish the illegitimacy of its existence. And
38:42
Speaker 7: what is so maddening to me is this idea that
38:45
Speaker 7: just because you can fight it, that means you shouldn't
38:48
Speaker 7: have to worry about it. No, we shouldn't have to
38:50
Speaker 7: fight this hard. And that's going to be a focus
38:53
Speaker 7: that I.
38:53
Speaker 6: Continue to have.
38:55
Speaker 7: What it also means is that we have to focus
38:57
Speaker 7: on more than the top of the ticket. I am
38:59
Speaker 7: proud to be running with Raphael Warnock, who is an
39:02
Speaker 7: extraordinary senator, but we have to make certain we have
39:06
Speaker 7: an extraordinary attorney general and an extraordinary secretary of state.
39:09
Speaker 7: We have to have county commissioners and city council members
39:13
Speaker 7: and people up and down the ballot who believe in
39:15
Speaker 7: protecting democracy, small d, not protecting Democrats, but protecting democracy.
39:21
Speaker 7: And that's where Georgia can be instrumental. We can do
39:24
Speaker 7: show that we believe that we are responsible for doing
39:28
Speaker 7: better by the American people. and by our people by
39:32
Speaker 7: proving that voting works and then using the power of
39:35
Speaker 7: that vote to then continue to build a narrative that
39:38
Speaker 7: we all have the patriotic responsibility to defend democracy.
39:42
Speaker 1: After Georgia passed the voter suppression laws last year, there
39:46
Speaker 1: was a very, obviously, deserved and loud outcry about how
39:51
Speaker 1: they were trying to steal elections. This was the response
39:55
Speaker 1: to what happened in 20 and 21. And that if we,
40:01
Speaker 1: the Democrats in the House and the Senate and the
40:03
Speaker 1: President did not fix this problem, Republicans were going to
40:05
Speaker 1: steal elections. Because of that outcry, which I think was correct,
40:09
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who think because of
40:11
Speaker 1: the failure, at least thus far, of the Senate to
40:14
Speaker 1: pass a federal voting rights law, that we are screwed.
40:17
Speaker 1: How do you convince people that we can win even
40:19
Speaker 1: when the game is rigged against us as much as
40:21
Speaker 1: we believe it is in Georgia and elsewhere?
40:23
Speaker 7: I said recently, you fight for what you want, but
40:27
Speaker 7: you work with what you have. We have to fight
40:30
Speaker 7: for a system that actually respects voters of all stripes.
40:36
Speaker 7: That does not create artificial barriers. That does not leverage
40:40
Speaker 7: the might of state legislatures to thwart the will of
40:45
Speaker 7: the people. That does not suborn the insurrection played out
40:49
Speaker 7: in legislative action.
40:52
Speaker 6: That's what we have to fight.
40:53
Speaker 7: And the best way to fight it is to have
40:55
Speaker 7: federal legislation that says that no matter where you live,
40:58
Speaker 7: your geography does not determine the quality of your democracy.
41:02
Speaker 7: That's what we fight for. But we got to work
41:04
Speaker 7: with what we have. And I come from a long
41:07
Speaker 7: line of people and community that we've faced voter suppression.
41:13
Speaker 7: And so we know that the one antidote to voter
41:16
Speaker 7: suppression is overwhelming the polls because suppression is like putting
41:20
Speaker 7: up barrier. It's putting up a dam. But sometimes when
41:23
Speaker 7: the water is pushing hard enough, it breaks through and
41:26
Speaker 7: it goes over and some things get lost and some
41:29
Speaker 7: folks are not going to be heard. But if there
41:31
Speaker 7: are enough of us, we will force our way past
41:34
Speaker 7: those barriers. And that's the mission we have to have.
41:37
Speaker 7: I think it is ill-advised to try to out-organize something
41:42
Speaker 7: that is fundamentally wrong, but it is sometimes necessary to
41:47
Speaker 7: try to defeat it in multiple ways.
41:50
Speaker 6: And that's what we have to do. And it can
41:52
Speaker 6: be done.
41:53
Speaker 7: We saw it happen. We've seen it happen before, but
41:56
Speaker 7: it is harder than it should be. And it is
41:58
Speaker 7: wrong that we must, but that doesn't eliminate the responsibility
42:02
Speaker 7: to do so Because those who rely on us need
42:05
Speaker 7: us to do this work.
42:08
Speaker 1: It's not just voter suppression the Republicans are doing. They're
42:12
Speaker 1: also suppressing history. This is happening all across the country.
42:15
Speaker 1: The books are being banned. Curriculum is being regulated. The
42:19
Speaker 1: Republican Brian Kemp, the Republican governor, just went and visited
42:22
Speaker 1: a library that had put in place a book ban
42:26
Speaker 1: and censored books from that library. How do you I mean,
42:30
Speaker 1: this is a sort of thing that I think a
42:32
Speaker 1: lot of people thought would not happen in this country
42:35
Speaker 1: in this time, or maybe that that was hopefully behind us.
42:38
Speaker 1: How do you talk about this to people that makes
42:41
Speaker 1: it resonant to them and understand what the true threat is?
42:45
Speaker 7: We have to talk about honest education. And the whole
42:50
Speaker 7: point of education is building resilient young people who can
42:54
Speaker 7: be leaders, ones who can navigate challenges. And be successful.
42:58
Speaker 7: And you can't be successful when you're educated on the lie.
43:02
Speaker 7: You cannot be successful when you don't have the whole story.
43:05
Speaker 7: Because ultimately, eventually the vacuum in your knowledge is going
43:09
Speaker 7: to come back and cause you harm. And so our
43:13
Speaker 7: responsibility is an honest, whole education. And that means telling
43:18
Speaker 7: the hard parts. Being dishonest with our kids now means
43:23
Speaker 7: that we are growing a generation of children who who
43:26
Speaker 7: are not ready to be leaders, who are not equipped
43:29
Speaker 7: to be the full adults we should want them to be.
43:32
Speaker 7: And I don't have children myself, but I have a
43:34
Speaker 7: 15-year-old niece who I've spent a lot of time with,
43:38
Speaker 7: and she and my parents are living with me temporarily.
43:41
Speaker 7: And I've been involved in her education. I now know
43:45
Speaker 7: more about the Kansas-Nebraska Act than I remembered. And the
43:50
Speaker 7: conversations about David Wilmot and his proviso, I completely forgot
43:54
Speaker 7: about that. But my point is, I want her to
43:58
Speaker 7: know the hard stuff because she also has to navigate
44:02
Speaker 7: being a 15-year-old Black girl in America. But her friends
44:07
Speaker 7: come from different backgrounds, and they should also know what
44:11
Speaker 7: it means to be resilient, what it means to be
44:13
Speaker 7: better as Americans, that when we have faced challenges and
44:16
Speaker 7: made terrible decisions and done things that we should be
44:19
Speaker 7: ashamed of, here's how we got better. Here's how we
44:22
Speaker 7: identified what we did wrong. And here's how we made
44:24
Speaker 7: ourselves a better nation. That's a story we should always
44:28
Speaker 7: want to tell. It should be age appropriate and it
44:31
Speaker 7: should be complete and thorough, but it can never be
44:35
Speaker 7: dishonest and it can never be incomplete because we do.
44:38
Speaker 6: Them a disservice.
44:39
Speaker 7: And that's how we have to talk about this. This
44:42
Speaker 7: is about the kind of children we are raising in
44:46
Speaker 7: this moment.
44:48
Speaker 1: Stacey Abrams, thank you so much for joining us. Good
44:51
Speaker 1: luck out there. We're all counting on you.
44:53
Speaker 7: Thank you so much, Dan. And I just encourage folks,
44:55
Speaker 7: as always, to go to StaceyAbrams.com and learn more about
44:58
Speaker 7: what we're doing.
45:07
Speaker 1: Before we go, we thought we'd open up the Pod
45:09
Speaker 1: Save America mailbag. We told you to ask us anything,
45:12
Speaker 1: and boy, did you deliver. All right, let's get started.
45:15
Speaker 1: The first question comes from at Duncan Bronuts, which I
45:19
Speaker 1: am 95% sure is Jon Favreau's burner account, because I
45:24
Speaker 1: know this is a question he also has. Should we
45:28
Speaker 1: expect there to be delays for the Supreme Court nominee
45:30
Speaker 1: given Senator Lujan's stroke and surgery? Some background for folks
45:34
Speaker 1: who may not be aware, Senator Lujan of New Mexico
45:38
Speaker 1: suffered a stroke last week, and he is in the
45:41
Speaker 1: hospital recovering. It has been said he's going to have
45:43
Speaker 1: a full recovery, but he is absent from the Senate
45:46
Speaker 1: with denying Democrats the 50 votes they would need to
45:50
Speaker 1: move forward any legislation. This has led to a lot
45:54
Speaker 1: of tremendous concern about our ability to fill the Supreme
45:56
Speaker 1: Court vacancy left by Justice Breyer's retirement. Do you want
45:59
Speaker 1: to take this one, Alyssa, or do you want me
46:00
Speaker 1: to do it?
46:01
Speaker 4: I mean, buddy, well, you may have to because I'm
46:04
Speaker 4: not super concerned about this.
46:05
Speaker 2: I don't know.
46:06
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm missing something. But Senator Lujan had a stroke.
46:13
Speaker 4: Everything that his office has said is that he is
46:16
Speaker 4: going to make a full recovery. They expect him back
46:18
Speaker 4: in the Senate in four to six weeks. President Biden
46:20
Speaker 4: has said that he will likely nominate somebody by the
46:24
Speaker 4: end of February, which is four weeks.
46:27
Speaker 2: And so I feel like we're going to be fine.
46:30
Speaker 2: Am I crazy?
46:32
Speaker 1: No, I think that's right. Obviously, our thoughts go out
46:37
Speaker 1: to Senator Lujan and his family.
46:40
Speaker 5: 100%.
46:40
Speaker 1: The most important thing here is that he has a
46:41
Speaker 1: full recovery. If it proceeds as he has said and
46:44
Speaker 1: his doctors expect, it should not cause any delay in
46:49
Speaker 1: the process. It does highlight, I think, the fragility of
46:53
Speaker 1: our majority and that we should move forward very quickly
46:56
Speaker 1: on all things because there are 12, I think it's
47:01
Speaker 1: 12 Democratic senators in states with Republican governors. And in
47:05
Speaker 1: almost all of those cases, if that Democratic senator were
47:07
Speaker 1: to pass away or become incapacitated for some reason, a
47:10
Speaker 1: Republican governor would appoint a Republican to that seat.
47:13
Speaker 5: Right.
47:14
Speaker 1: And make Mitch McConnell majority leader and we would not
47:17
Speaker 1: confirm the Supreme Court seat or any other judges or
47:19
Speaker 1: basically anything else. And so that is sort of– that's
47:23
Speaker 1: where we are. I would note that if I understand
47:26
Speaker 1: my reading of the sort of Capitol Hill rags correctly,
47:30
Speaker 1: Mitt Romney is out for the foreseeable future because of COVID.
47:34
Speaker 1: And so therefore, you could actually confirm anyone and everyone
47:38
Speaker 1: with 49 plus the vice president because the number– So
47:42
Speaker 1: I think let's make that nomination today. Let's get it
47:45
Speaker 1: up and get it out. But we get it out
47:47
Speaker 1: by Friday. I think we can solve this problem.
47:49
Speaker 2: Buddy, that's good news you can use.
47:52
Speaker 1: Just making use of that Punchbowl subscription.
47:54
Speaker 5: Okay.
47:55
Speaker 1: Alyssa, this question's for you. At Obscurement asks, we live
47:59
Speaker 1: in a super red district near Alyssa. My wife ran
48:01
Speaker 1: for town justice and got blown out on the water.
48:03
Speaker 1: Any advice for what we need to do for the
48:05
Speaker 1: next few years to help her the next time she runs?
48:07
Speaker 1: Any advice for a new Dem group in a small
48:09
Speaker 1: town red area?
48:10
Speaker 6: Yes.
48:11
Speaker 4: I live in a, my area is actually quite red too.
48:14
Speaker 4: And I was engaged in our local elections this past cycle.
48:19
Speaker 4: And I think that the most effective thing that folks
48:22
Speaker 4: running for local office can do is really, really just
48:28
Speaker 4: ditch any sort of national political language, like to just
48:32
Speaker 4: make everything as local as humanly possible. And the person
48:35
Speaker 4: who represents us, Congressman Antonio Delgado, who is a Democrat,
48:39
Speaker 4: won a close race in my district. And he's done
48:42
Speaker 4: like a really great job of doing everything he can
48:44
Speaker 4: to stay as local as humanly possible. So that means
48:49
Speaker 4: that people of all political stripes came to the opening
48:53
Speaker 4: of the Klovrick Free Library a couple months ago. So
48:56
Speaker 4: I would just say keep it as local as you
48:59
Speaker 4: can and don't give in to the stuff you read
49:01
Speaker 4: on Twitter and repeat it in local settings because 95%
49:04
Speaker 4: of the people you need to vote for you do
49:06
Speaker 4: not have Twitter on their phones.
49:08
Speaker 1: Okay.
49:09
Speaker 5: At?
49:10
Speaker 1: Kay Ramirez 13 asks, realistically, what do you see happening
49:14
Speaker 1: with BBB, Build Back Better, especially the climate pieces? Do
49:19
Speaker 1: you have any guesses? or thoughts about where this is
49:21
Speaker 1: headed next?
49:22
Speaker 2: I'd say that my thoughts are hacky. So I'd like
49:26
Speaker 2: to hear what you have.
49:27
Speaker 8: To think about this.
49:29
Speaker 1: They're hacky? Oh, now I really want to hear them.
49:31
Speaker 1: The truth is there is a deal to be had
49:34
Speaker 1: there if Joe Manchin will let us have the deal.
49:37
Speaker 5: Right?
49:37
Speaker 1: He obviously, he put forward a much smaller proposal that
49:41
Speaker 1: was about $ 1. 7 trillion before the holidays. That then blew
49:45
Speaker 1: up for a whole bunch of really stupid reasons. He
49:47
Speaker 1: has walked away from that. But there is a bunch
49:50
Speaker 1: of things that people agree on. And you can see,
49:54
Speaker 1: you know, I think it was Congressman Ro Khanna suggested
49:58
Speaker 1: that we just give Joe Manchin the pen, write whatever
50:00
Speaker 1: it is you want, and then we will you know,
50:03
Speaker 1: as long as within reason, take that, right? And particularly
50:06
Speaker 1: around the climate piece, because this is our last chance.
50:08
Speaker 1: And so there was still an opportunity for that. I
50:10
Speaker 1: think that the prospects of success for that are going
50:13
Speaker 1: to be greater if this all happens quietly, right? Let's just,
50:17
Speaker 1: I think the White House should stop talking about it.
50:19
Speaker 1: The president shouldn't do events on it. There's, I mean,
50:22
Speaker 1: people want to keep tweeting at Joe Manchin. They should
50:23
Speaker 1: feel free. I don't think it's going to have an impact,
50:24
Speaker 1: but just let them go. Like, I think less spotlight
50:28
Speaker 1: is good here for legislation to maybe, you know, a
50:31
Speaker 1: deal to be cut and then just surprise us one
50:34
Speaker 1: day by coming out with, here's the deal. It's not
50:35
Speaker 1: gonna be everything we want far from it. Even the
50:38
Speaker 1: most optimistic and biggest, boldest, you know, possible thing that we,
50:42
Speaker 1: that was talked about last year, what, you know, was
50:44
Speaker 1: obviously short on climbing a few other things, but there,
50:46
Speaker 1: I think I still believe that there is a chance
50:48
Speaker 1: for progress. I'm not making predictions. I'm not optimistic, but
50:51
Speaker 1: there is a path there if mansion is willing to
50:54
Speaker 1: do it. And that's, you know, it's just hard to say.
50:56
Speaker 4: Tactically, do you think it is better to keep, Build
50:59
Speaker 4: Back Better intact or to break it into smaller bills?
51:03
Speaker 1: You can't break it into smaller bills because of the
51:06
Speaker 1: budget reconciliation process. I think what I would do is,
51:08
Speaker 1: so Manchin came out the other day and said, Build
51:11
Speaker 1: Back Better is dead. And everyone's like, oh my God,
51:13
Speaker 1: what does that mean? And it's like, you know what?
51:16
Speaker 1: Like my view tactically is we should accept that fate.
51:18
Speaker 1: We should say that bill is dead. Joe Manchin, you
51:20
Speaker 1: have won. If you want to mount the draft bill
51:24
Speaker 1: above your coal burning fireplace in your office, you should
51:27
Speaker 1: feel free to do that. You have killed Build Back Better.
51:30
Speaker 1: But here's a new bill, right? Which can be the,
51:34
Speaker 1: you know, a bill centered on dealing with inflation and
51:37
Speaker 1: climate change. And it's a new bill. It's different. It's
51:40
Speaker 1: got some of the aspects, the old ones, but some
51:41
Speaker 1: new ones. It is focused. It's obviously more narrow because
51:45
Speaker 1: management will assist it. But I would just start fresh, right?
51:49
Speaker 1: And just give it a new gloss of paint, new name,
51:52
Speaker 1: new everything else. I think that will be helpful as
51:54
Speaker 1: opposed to like, we've been working backwards off the same
51:58
Speaker 1: document for well over a year now, and that has
52:00
Speaker 1: not worked. So let's just, let's get a fresh piece
52:02
Speaker 1: of paper, a blank whiteboard, whatever, and sort of rebuild
52:05
Speaker 1: it from there.
52:06
Speaker 2: At the nail salon, we'd call that a buff and shine.
52:10
Speaker 6: Okay.
52:11
Speaker 1: Okay, then.
52:11
Speaker 5: Great.
52:12
Speaker 1: All right. We got time for a couple of fun ones. Oh, good.
52:18
Speaker 1: At Sonia, I think the name of Sonia, but there's
52:21
Speaker 1: a lot of S's, a lot of O's, several A's,
52:24
Speaker 1: wants to know, and this is the question that everyone
52:26
Speaker 1: in America is asking, is Below Deck or 90 Day
52:30
Speaker 1: Fiance the superior reality TV program?
52:33
Speaker 2: Buddy, you know how I feel about 90 Day Fiance.
52:37
Speaker 2: I watch a couple things. So here's the thing. We're both,
52:41
Speaker 2: because you don't watch 90 Day Fiance, right?
52:44
Speaker 1: All I know about it is from your tweets.
52:46
Speaker 2: I'm glad they're breaking through.
52:51
Speaker 4: So 90 Day Fiance won so many iterations of it.
52:54
Speaker 4: There's 90 Day before the 90 Days. There's 90 Days
52:57
Speaker 4: happily ever after. There's 90 Day the other way. There
53:01
Speaker 4: is 90 Day pillow talk associated for each.
53:05
Speaker 2: One of those shows. I love it.
53:08
Speaker 4: The characters are dynamic. I, you know, there's always like
53:11
Speaker 4: a good split of the couples that you hope don't
53:14
Speaker 4: make it. And then the couples that you're rooting for,
53:16
Speaker 4: there's like geographic diversity.
53:18
Speaker 2: We're in the foothills of Virginia. We're down in Florida.
53:21
Speaker 2: We're everywhere. I fucking love the show.
53:23
Speaker 4: Not as much as Sister Wives, which is my be
53:26
Speaker 4: all end all TLC fame. But listen, Christine got away
53:31
Speaker 4: from Cody and it is, it is feminism at its finest.
53:34
Speaker 4: But 90 Day, to me, it's escapism. I will give
53:39
Speaker 4: them credit. I don't know how they did a show
53:41
Speaker 4: that is essentially about immigration that avoided Donald Trump for
53:44
Speaker 4: five seasons, but more power to them.
53:47
Speaker 1: I mean, this sounds like a ridiculous question, but can
53:50
Speaker 1: you just give us like 15 seconds on the premise
53:53
Speaker 1: of 90 Day Fiancé? Oh, you think that your listeners-
53:55
Speaker 1: It seems like it's in the title, but.
53:57
Speaker 4: You think your listeners are so high-minded they couldn't possibly know.
54:00
Speaker 2: About my program. So anyway- It's about people who meet online.
54:05
Speaker 2: Sometimes there's catfishing. Sometimes there's not.
54:09
Speaker 4: Who meet online and have 90 days in either the U.S.
54:13
Speaker 4: or the other person's home country to decide if they
54:16
Speaker 4: want to get married and apply for their K-1 visa
54:18
Speaker 4: and try to live happily ever after.
54:20
Speaker 2: And hilarity and drama ensues.
54:24
Speaker 1: I mean, you've made a compelling case. Thanks.
54:27
Speaker 4: Thanks.
54:28
Speaker 2: Why don't you tell me about Below Deck, the sex
54:31
Speaker 2: romp on Bravo?
54:35
Speaker 1: I want to at least address one thing at the
54:38
Speaker 1: top here, which is as a general rule, I reject
54:43
Speaker 1: questions that confuse subjective opinion and objective reality. You can
54:49
Speaker 1: find 90 Day Fiancé superior to Below Deck. I can
54:51
Speaker 1: find Below Deck superior. Someone else can like. Summer House
54:55
Speaker 1: or Real Housewives or the Sister Wives show that you
54:57
Speaker 1: have disturbingly talked about. And that's fine, right? You can
55:01
Speaker 1: like ketchup, you can like mustard. One is not necessarily
55:02
Speaker 1: better than the other. That recurring fight over those things
55:07
Speaker 1: is one of the reasons, I guess, why the internet
55:09
Speaker 1: exists today. Below Deck, like 90 Day Fiancé, has several iterations.
55:13
Speaker 1: There is Below Deck, the flagship enterprise. There is Below
55:16
Speaker 1: Deck Med, and there is Below Deck Sailing Out. Below
55:19
Speaker 1: Deck Sailing Out is coming back in a couple months.
55:22
Speaker 1: Short version. It is a reality show that follows the
55:26
Speaker 1: crew on a super yacht and a sailing out in
55:30
Speaker 1: the sailing out version for obvious reasons. And when it
55:34
Speaker 1: first started, it was super, it was like real world
55:36
Speaker 1: nineties because most of the people who had been on
55:38
Speaker 1: the show had never seen reality television or had any
55:40
Speaker 1: idea what they were getting into. There's been some self-awareness
55:43
Speaker 1: in recent years, I think may have detracted from the
55:45
Speaker 1: true benefit of the show, but it is escapism and
55:48
Speaker 1: particularly good escapism in during the pandemic because you know,
55:53
Speaker 1: they're off the coast of, Croatia or Italy, or they're
55:57
Speaker 1: in the Turks and Caicos or wherever else. And so
56:00
Speaker 1: it's like a, it's a chance to go like see
56:03
Speaker 1: really pretty places that we haven't all seen in a
56:04
Speaker 1: long time. So I would encourage anyone who likes reality TV,
56:08
Speaker 1: mega yachts and, uh, beaches that blow decks pretty great.
56:13
Speaker 1: All right, Alyssa, our last question is for you. I'm
56:19
Speaker 1: going to just clear out per the request of this listener, uh,
56:23
Speaker 1: It'll let you work because at Silk Crest writes, no question,
56:27
Speaker 1: just please let Alyssa rant about the supposed Rudy appearance
56:32
Speaker 1: on Masked Singer. You may have to give some listeners
56:35
Speaker 1: who are not readers of Deadline some context for what
56:37
Speaker 1: this is all about.
56:39
Speaker 2: Okay.
56:39
Speaker 4: So I am not a devotee of Masked Singer, but
56:43
Speaker 4: I have watched it and I know what it is.
56:45
Speaker 4: And basically they have some judges and people who come
56:49
Speaker 4: dressed in costumes and they sing and they try to
56:51
Speaker 4: guess who the famous person is.
56:53
Speaker 2: In the costume.
56:54
Speaker 4: And it is reported in Deadline that, I mean, buddy,
57:01
Speaker 4: I don't even know where to go with this because
57:05
Speaker 4: it is problematic at every level. But it turns out
57:09
Speaker 4: that according to Deadline, one of the masked singers was
57:14
Speaker 4: Rudy Giuliani. And when he took his mask off, I mean,
57:18
Speaker 4: I know I wrote a book by the title, but
57:20
Speaker 4: who the fuck thought this was a good idea? Like,
57:22
Speaker 4: took the mask off and Ken DeJong and Robin Thicke
57:28
Speaker 4: walked off stage.
57:29
Speaker 2: Now, I get why they did it.
57:32
Speaker 4: One, I too would walk off stage if I thought
57:35
Speaker 4: that the ghost of Christmas past had just appeared in
57:38
Speaker 4: front of me because that's kind of what this is.
57:41
Speaker 2: But also, like, I just don't know what the network
57:44
Speaker 2: was thinking.
57:44
Speaker 4: Like, why would you engage with someone so … I mean,
57:51
Speaker 4: it is, he is not just a, it's not like
57:54
Speaker 4: they shouldn't have Republicans on.
57:55
Speaker 2: Have all the Republicans you want. I don't know. Have
57:57
Speaker 2: Lindsey Graham.
57:58
Speaker 3: Fine.
57:58
Speaker 6: I don't care.
57:59
Speaker 4: But like Rudy Giuliani, who we spoke about previously as
58:04
Speaker 4: the person who went to the Department of Homeland Security
58:07
Speaker 4: and asked them to seize the voting machines on your
58:10
Speaker 4: masked singer show, seems like a prohibitively, fundamentally terrible idea.
58:19
Speaker 2: And I'm glad that– oh, my God. What's her name?
58:23
Speaker 2: What's her name? She is Jenny. She was on MTV.
58:27
Speaker 1: Jenny McCarthy?
58:28
Speaker 5: Yeah.
58:29
Speaker 2: She stayed to talk to Rudy. I'm like, okay, girl.
58:31
Speaker 2: You do you, anti-vaxxer.
58:33
Speaker 1: I was going to say. She was– they probably had
58:37
Speaker 1: a lot to talk about.
58:38
Speaker 2: Common cause.
58:39
Speaker 4: But that is– it was– there were some people online
58:45
Speaker 4: who were like– Ken and Robin Thicke were wrong.
58:49
Speaker 2: And like, I don't think they were wrong. I think
58:50
Speaker 2: they were startled as shit.
58:52
Speaker 4: And it is better to remove yourself from a situation
58:55
Speaker 4: than say something you can't take back.
58:56
Speaker 2: So good for them.
58:58
Speaker 1: Also, it's a fake fucking celebrity game show with music.
59:02
Speaker 1: Like what rules of etiquette did Robin Thicke break?
59:06
Speaker 2: Also can we just.
59:08
Speaker 1: He ruined the spirit of competition do you.
59:10
Speaker 2: Wonder what Rudy was singing I.
59:13
Speaker 1: Mean look I will I will end this just because
59:17
Speaker 1: I think it's a great this is maybe all you
59:20
Speaker 1: need to know about how we got into this fucked
59:23
Speaker 1: up situation in politics is we started this podcast talking
59:26
Speaker 1: about Rudy Giuliani trying to seize voting machines and And
59:29
Speaker 1: it ends with him having an appearance on a reality
59:31
Speaker 1: TV show. Like it is all of the problems of
59:35
Speaker 1: treating politics as infotainment all manifest themselves in this podcast.
59:39
Speaker 1: So on that high minded note, thank you, Alyssa, for
59:42
Speaker 1: being here. Thank you to Stacey Abrams. We'll talk to
59:45
Speaker 1: everyone next week.
59:46
Speaker 6: OK, bye, everybody.
59:51
Speaker 8: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
59:54
Speaker 8: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
59:58
Speaker 8: Our producer is Haley Muse and Olivia Martinez is our
1:00:01
Speaker 8: associate producer. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle
1:00:05
Speaker 8: Seglin is our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somanator, Sandy Gerard,
1:00:08
Speaker 8: Hallie Kiefer, Madison Holman, and Justine Howe for production support.
1:00:12
Speaker 8: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim,
1:00:16
Speaker 8: and Amelia Montooth. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com
1:00:20
Speaker 8: slash crooked media.