Latest / The You Project / #2188 More Logic & Less Emotion In The Gym - Dr. Sam Casey

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#2188 More Logic & Less Emotion In The Gym - Dr. Sam Casey · The You Project

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Speaker 1: I get a team, it's the project, that's you, it's
0:03
Speaker 1: it's me, and it's doctor Sam, who swans in quite
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Speaker 1: regularly these days. We love chatting with her. She's the
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Speaker 1: the child psychology guru at typ We call her that.
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Speaker 1: How does that fit with you? Doc? You okay with that?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? That sounds good to me.
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Speaker 1: You can you need to get that on your business cards.
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Speaker 2: Now that's you know, that's my new tagline.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a new tagline, according to Craig Harper. So
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Speaker 1: how have you been. What's going on?
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Speaker 2: Oh, you know, the usual work, bit of research, a
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Speaker 2: creating all the things. It's been actually really good.
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Speaker 1: Is it? Is it important for you that you keep
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Speaker 1: of course you've got a PhD and of course you're
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Speaker 1: a child therapist. What's the proper term, like what other
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Speaker 1: than being a psychologist? What's the term that you use
1:05
Speaker 1: when you're describing your work? I am a watch Yeah, see.
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Speaker 2: I don't even use a psychologists because of my PhDs
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Speaker 2: in psychology. I've got an undergrad. But you know, in
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Speaker 2: terms of the registration, I'm more the register play therapists,
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Speaker 2: the mental accredited mentor of social worker. So I think
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Speaker 2: that for me though, child therapist encompasses all of that
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Speaker 2: because I've obviously done those additional postgrad studies in play
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Speaker 2: therapy in child psychotherapy. So for me, I think it's
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Speaker 2: kind of like where it will begun. And obviously I've
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Speaker 2: you know, I work with adults a lot now and
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Speaker 2: I trained all these different things, but I feel like, yeah, child,
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Speaker 2: being a child therapist is kind of like the core
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Speaker 2: of my identity, and everything that I've done since then
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Speaker 2: has built upon that. Like I went into maternal mental
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Speaker 2: health and which just with mums, but I did that
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Speaker 2: because of the child therapy, you know, perspective of okay
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Speaker 2: from here supporting kids and need to really understand the
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Speaker 2: ones that are caring for the kids, which is the
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Speaker 2: mums and the dads, and so I went into you know,
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Speaker 2: men's mental health and all of that as well. So yeah,
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Speaker 2: still definitely I feel like a child therapist, but obviously
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Speaker 2: have created stuff beyond that to be able to share
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Speaker 2: my knowledge with everyone else that works with kids.
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Speaker 1: It's funny that you have a PhD in psychology, so
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Speaker 1: you're kind of a doctor of psychology but not a psychologist.
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Speaker 1: At the same time, I get the same with people
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Speaker 1: when people are going to be. When they're saying, oh,
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Speaker 1: you'll be a psychologist soon, I go, no, I hope
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Speaker 1: you're a psychologist because my PhD is research based and
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Speaker 1: it's trying to explain to people the difference between being
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Speaker 1: a clinical psych and being someone who's a psychology researcher.
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Speaker 1: It's quite a gap, yes.
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Speaker 2: And a lot of people, especially because I do therapy
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Speaker 2: and i'm you know, I'm like a medicare provider and
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Speaker 2: all of those things, people get confused. But the way
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Speaker 2: that I like to look at it is I'm not
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Speaker 2: honestly interested in diagnosing people with the DSM. I'm not
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Speaker 2: interested in what is wrong with you. I'm more interested
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Speaker 2: in what's happened to you. And that's obviously the trauma
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Speaker 2: and Borte kind of perspective. And so I feel like
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Speaker 2: I'm able to do all that stuff without having that
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Speaker 2: pressure of like what DSM category does this tel fit into?
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Speaker 2: Or what does your assessment of them in? How I
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Speaker 2: like to yeah, focus more on the like what's your story,
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Speaker 2: what's kind of happened?
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Speaker 1: At what age do you start or people that do
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Speaker 1: what you do? Maybe let's just go with you, at
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Speaker 1: what stage would you start to work? With a child
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Speaker 1: like is it I mean, I do genuinely don't know
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Speaker 1: the answer to this is like, would we work with
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Speaker 1: a six month old child who can't even speak it?
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Speaker 1: Or is it? Like I know that seems dumb, but
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Speaker 1: maybe in some world that works. Or maybe just observing
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Speaker 1: the behavior of a child in a certain context and
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Speaker 1: maybe realizing that something in their environment or context or
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Speaker 1: situation needs to change. What's the youngest.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean when it comes to play therapy,
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Speaker 2: they say age three. But I think what is even
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Speaker 2: more helpful is to work because the caregivers, Because we
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Speaker 2: could see a child, you know, for the hour for
4:04
Speaker 2: the week, and that hour that will for what they
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Speaker 2: show us maybe not really represent how they usually are. Right.
4:09
Speaker 2: We may get them a really good hour, we may
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Speaker 2: get them on a really horrible hour and they're just
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Speaker 2: so tired. And I've simulated, And so I think working
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Speaker 2: with the parents more around what are the rearcurring patterns
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Speaker 2: or themes or issues that you're experiencing and then what
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Speaker 2: do you notice about that happening in different environments, different
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Speaker 2: times of the day. I think it's easier to kind
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Speaker 2: of work with that rather than you know, you don't
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Speaker 2: want to like over over analyze and over diagnose young
4:34
Speaker 2: kids too, so we have to be kind of cautious
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Speaker 2: of that because that can then get them from like
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Speaker 2: one box to another.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel I feel a bit of apprehension around that, maybe,
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Speaker 1: like you where you go, well, yeah, maybe this kid's
4:49
Speaker 1: just going through a phase or a stage, or maybe
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Speaker 1: this is Yeah, it's kind of a bit weird behavior,
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Speaker 1: but it's probably not bad or destructive. That's just they
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Speaker 1: don't have the same personality as the three that they're
5:00
Speaker 1: next to, or so I think you would naturally be
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Speaker 1: very hesitant with kind of labeling anything too soon, right, Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I mean I think it's really hard even with adults
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Speaker 2: for example, right, like you could think of say, you know,
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Speaker 2: grief losing a loved one. You know, you could get
5:16
Speaker 2: diagnosed with depression, like you know disorder, right, depressive disorder.
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Speaker 2: But it kind of makes sense. It feel really lower
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Speaker 2: after losing someone, like, so I think normal human emotions
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Speaker 2: and behaviors and almost like acceptable responses to really like
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Speaker 2: you know, hard situations we often now like diagnose and
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Speaker 2: where like, yeah, the other end of the spectrum there, So.
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Speaker 1: I think, like, oh, someone that I love died, or
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Speaker 1: someone that I loved is dying or struggling or got
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Speaker 1: badly hurt, or I went through this really traumatic thing,
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Speaker 1: whatever it is, and I feel a bit depressed, or
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Speaker 1: I feel depressed and or anxious and or something else. Well,
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Speaker 1: that's just called being human. Yeah, you know, it's like, well,
6:00
Speaker 1: of course you're flat, of course you're sad. Of course
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Speaker 1: you're depressed. A bad thing happened in your world, and
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Speaker 1: you're a human, So this is kind of an appropriate response.
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Speaker 2: That's it.
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Speaker 1: This is how humans are when things like that happen.
6:15
Speaker 1: Where do we figure out? I guess it's just about time, right,
6:19
Speaker 1: is it? If you're feeling that for an extended period
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Speaker 1: of time, then maybe we would question as to whether
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Speaker 1: or not that's that's more than just a smattering of
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Speaker 1: depression because something bad happened.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is a tricky bit, right, because it's
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Speaker 2: almost like, aside from just time, it's like, you know,
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Speaker 2: how much is it impacting your functioning to where it
6:39
Speaker 2: gets to a point where you're like, Okay, I kind
6:41
Speaker 2: of want to do something about this. I want to,
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Speaker 2: you know, start to work through this in a different way.
6:44
Speaker 2: But I think a lot of the time. If you
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Speaker 2: think about it, let's just say grief, because they're on that.
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Speaker 2: You know, if you're someone that is trying to avoid
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Speaker 2: grieving by using substances, you're trying to numb it, you're
6:55
Speaker 2: trying to escape it, then yeah, you could still be
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Speaker 2: deep grief a year later, and it's it's because you
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Speaker 2: haven't actually had time to process it. So even though
7:04
Speaker 2: it's a year later, it can seem like, well, why
7:05
Speaker 2: are you still going through It's because you actually haven't
7:07
Speaker 2: been going through it. You've been kind of blocking it
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Speaker 2: and stopping it and numbing it and suppressing it rather
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Speaker 2: than allowing yourself to feel different stages of grief, the
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Speaker 2: the pain, the sadness, the anger, like it's all there.
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Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, you're right time in a way,
7:21
Speaker 2: But also I think it's a way that it's impacting
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Speaker 2: or functioning and how you are your relationship with that
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Speaker 2: grief too, because ultimately, does it ever fully go away
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Speaker 2: or do you just almost like able to adapt to
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Speaker 2: a life that you're kind of building your life away
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Speaker 2: from the griefs so you still feel it, but you're
7:36
Speaker 2: you know, still able to kind of build a life
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Speaker 2: beyond that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, we had there's a guy who comes on the
7:44
Speaker 1: show regularly called doctor Bill Sullivan, who's like molecular bi
7:48
Speaker 1: biologist who's the head of I don't know what it's called,
7:52
Speaker 1: something something medicine at I should know, at Indiana State
7:59
Speaker 1: University or anyway, it's in Indiana. And he was talking
8:03
Speaker 1: the other day. We spoke the other day about we're
8:05
Speaker 1: talking about depression in general and how often it's believed
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Speaker 1: that it's pretty much exclusively around you know, brain chemistry
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Speaker 1: and lack of dopamine and overwhelm of this or that,
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Speaker 1: and he was saying that correct me if I'm wrong,
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Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure. He said that SSRIs don't work
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Speaker 1: for about thirty five percent of the population, so they
8:28
Speaker 1: don't get an improved outcome, and that there's brand new
8:33
Speaker 1: research out which I doubt you would know because it's
8:36
Speaker 1: really really new research from an English group of researchers,
8:42
Speaker 1: and about how inflammation they treated these two groups, one
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Speaker 1: with anti inflammatories and these groups that didn't respond to
8:54
Speaker 1: the normal kind of treatment, they were given anti inflammatories
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Speaker 1: and there was pretty much a i think from memory,
9:02
Speaker 1: one hundred percent improvement, as in all of them improved
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Speaker 1: to some level and about half of them had zero depression,
9:13
Speaker 1: and it wasn't using it wasn't about their brain chemistry,
9:17
Speaker 1: it was about the inflammation in their body. So they
9:20
Speaker 1: are thinking now that potentially, obviously this is still being explored,
9:26
Speaker 1: but maybe around a third of depression is for a
9:32
Speaker 1: reason that we didn't previously understand or believe. So anyway,
9:36
Speaker 1: you should have a listen to that one because it's
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Speaker 1: brand new, doctor Bill Sullivan, and for my listeners who
9:41
Speaker 1: didn't hear that, like really fascinating, still kind of in
9:45
Speaker 1: its infancy. But the beauty is that the drug that
9:47
Speaker 1: they gave them, there's already FDA approved, It's already been
9:52
Speaker 1: used for inflammatory conditions, but it just so happened that
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Speaker 1: it can also be used to treat depression, which I
10:00
Speaker 1: thought is interesting and new and how much stuff is
10:06
Speaker 1: like always evolving. I remember a few years ago. Then
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Speaker 1: I shut up. I remember reading a well I didn't.
10:14
Speaker 1: I was going to say, I read the paper. That's bullshit.
10:15
Speaker 1: I read the abstract and I read that, you know
10:18
Speaker 1: how you're trying to read the highlight reaction. Yeah, no,
10:22
Speaker 1: I didn't read the paper. The paper was fucking long,
10:24
Speaker 1: but it was a paper out of the University of
10:26
Speaker 1: South Australia where they compared essentially a regular kind of
10:33
Speaker 1: medicines for depression against So they had two groups people
10:37
Speaker 1: who were depressed, and one group did exercise. I think
10:41
Speaker 1: it was eight weeks verses eight or twelve verses twelve,
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Speaker 1: and the people who introduced exercise and did it consistently,
10:48
Speaker 1: who didn't previously exercise, they got to I think it
10:52
Speaker 1: was one hundred and fifty percent better outcome than that,
10:56
Speaker 1: which seems like a very convenient number, but I do
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Speaker 1: remember that was the number. But anyway, that exercise proved
11:02
Speaker 1: to be at least as effective, if not more than
11:05
Speaker 1: taking a pill. So like it's not just oh you
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Speaker 1: have this, therefore take that and this will be the outcome.
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Speaker 2: It's so interesting. I totally agree with what you're saying,
11:18
Speaker 2: and I feel like these are all pieces of the
11:19
Speaker 2: puzzle when you think of our mental health, and so
11:21
Speaker 2: you know, I'm very conscious of that. I might don't
11:24
Speaker 2: calm at me and not like anti medication, but if
11:26
Speaker 2: you see that as a piece of the puzzle, it's
11:27
Speaker 2: not the only answer. And I think about this with like,
11:30
Speaker 2: say mums who you know suffer from say postnatal and
11:33
Speaker 2: they're like, Okay, it must just be this hormonal imbalance
11:36
Speaker 2: and I need this pill and all kind of make
11:38
Speaker 2: it all go away. But then you think about, you know,
11:40
Speaker 2: do they have time for exercise on the regular? Are
11:43
Speaker 2: they eating like what are they eating? Do they have
11:45
Speaker 2: time for their social connections right? Or are they just
11:48
Speaker 2: caring for a baby at home alone all day? I
11:51
Speaker 2: think there's just so many lifestyle stuff, right, do they
11:54
Speaker 2: have time for like sepp Oh my god, that can
11:57
Speaker 2: make anyone go crazy. It's like a talk form of torture. Really,
12:01
Speaker 2: so yeah, it's even that. And it's like, do we
12:04
Speaker 2: then push for just therapy and just medication or are
12:06
Speaker 2: we like, actually sleep needs to be a priority, Like
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Speaker 2: we need more support, we need more resources. I think
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Speaker 2: it's always like the number one thing for me when
12:14
Speaker 2: I'm working with a new mom, I'm like, it's not
12:17
Speaker 2: you need to do more, You actually need more support,
12:19
Speaker 2: Like who can come help you, who can kind of
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Speaker 2: get you? Like you said, sleep, you feel so much
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Speaker 2: better even just with that, right.
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Speaker 1: I feel like if you could give every mum who's
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Speaker 1: struggling post natally, if you could magically just give them
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Speaker 1: eight hours of great sleep every night, for one hundred
12:38
Speaker 1: nights in a row. Not that that would fix everything,
12:42
Speaker 1: but surely that would really move the needle for a
12:45
Speaker 1: lot of people.
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Speaker 2: Like wow, I think the majority. I don't know if
12:48
Speaker 2: you've you know, I'm sure you've gone through periods of
12:50
Speaker 2: your life potentially where you've had this sleep deprivation or
12:53
Speaker 2: you sleep to be impacted. But I knows a mom
12:56
Speaker 2: like I can't think clearly when I've not had enough sleep,
12:59
Speaker 2: like it, really, I could know all the things and
13:01
Speaker 2: have all these these you know, regulation tools, but when
13:04
Speaker 2: I'm tired, like they kind of go out the window
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Speaker 2: a little bit, and the only thing that will fix
13:08
Speaker 2: it is getting sleep.
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Speaker 1: That's right, Because when you're tired mentally and emotionally, and
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Speaker 1: you know, cognitively I guess more specifically as well, you're
13:19
Speaker 1: just not even though you know what to do and
13:21
Speaker 1: how to do it, even though you're educated, even though
13:23
Speaker 1: you're a good person, even though you're normally well emotionally regulated.
13:28
Speaker 1: But when you are chronically underslept, you're just not the
13:31
Speaker 1: same human being.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I really I feel like I struggle
13:36
Speaker 2: to sometimes communicate that to parents when they're like, oh,
13:39
Speaker 2: this happened with my child and then I put them
13:41
Speaker 2: to bed, and I'm researching all the things, and I
13:42
Speaker 2: found this new course and I found this new book,
13:44
Speaker 2: and it's like you probably need to sleep, like if
13:47
Speaker 2: you've just gone through that in the day, like what
13:48
Speaker 2: times you end up going to bed? You know, like
13:50
Speaker 2: that's prioritizing our own needs because like you said that,
13:54
Speaker 2: we can think clearly when we get those things met,
13:56
Speaker 2: like we will feel like a different person if we
13:58
Speaker 2: were able just to get like that consistent sleep even
14:02
Speaker 2: letlone next all this other.
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Speaker 1: Stuff exactly, and when you get that great quality, deep
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Speaker 1: restorative sleep, your brain is wildly better than the sleep
14:13
Speaker 1: deprived version.
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Speaker 2: Definitely, and I'm sure that that exists for kids too,
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Speaker 2: Like it's a quality of sleep, right, it's not necessarily
14:21
Speaker 2: like you know, they could have a very disrupted sleep
14:23
Speaker 2: and so then you could just see how it's like
14:25
Speaker 2: a snowball effect and the next day they're so overtired
14:27
Speaker 2: and it just kind of goes into one. So I
14:29
Speaker 2: think that priority for everyone to be like we actually
14:33
Speaker 2: just need to be well rested, Like we need to
14:36
Speaker 2: get good quality sleep, and we need to have boundaries
14:38
Speaker 2: around this because it impacts us in a way that
14:40
Speaker 2: you know, it's hard to pinpoint, but it very much
14:42
Speaker 2: is that humantive effect as well.
14:45
Speaker 1: And it seems like there's this compounding kind of issue
14:49
Speaker 1: that I had a shit night's sleep and then I
14:52
Speaker 1: had another shit light night's sleep. That's two in a row.
14:56
Speaker 1: My iram sleep or whatever we call it was min
15:00
Speaker 1: them all. My actual time asleep was minimal. What's it called. Yeah,
15:07
Speaker 1: and but then the third night, now on top of that,
15:10
Speaker 1: you're stressed and anxious that you're not going to sleep,
15:13
Speaker 1: which makes you not sleep exactly. It's like no, and
15:18
Speaker 1: then to try to just tell yourself just be calm,
15:21
Speaker 1: fuck you and you just be calm? Advice?
15:23
Speaker 2: Oh I hate that.
15:25
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:25
Speaker 2: I think it's the worst thing that we can give
15:27
Speaker 2: someone where it's like, just calm down, and it's like.
15:29
Speaker 1: No, telling someone who's stressed to just calm down, it's
15:34
Speaker 1: a good way to get punched in the face. I think. Yeah,
15:38
Speaker 1: it's so it's like it's well intended, but it's totally unhelpful.
15:43
Speaker 2: Oh definitely. And I think about, you know, even for myself,
15:46
Speaker 2: like if someone told me to come down, I think
15:47
Speaker 2: that would just like you said, I just take me
15:48
Speaker 2: more but it's sometimes not what we need. If anything,
15:51
Speaker 2: Sometimes we need to like go for a run and
15:53
Speaker 2: or to actually like move. It's the opposite of calming.
15:55
Speaker 2: We kind of need to get out that energy. Yeah.
15:58
Speaker 2: So yeah, not super helpful.
16:01
Speaker 1: With your stuff with working with kids and you know,
16:06
Speaker 1: therapy with kids. Do do you keep researching? Do you
16:10
Speaker 1: keep I'm sure you've got your nose in the metaphoric
16:13
Speaker 1: or literal books all the time. Is there anything new
16:17
Speaker 1: on the horizon that you've learned recently or anything that's
16:21
Speaker 1: grabbed your attention in terms of the space that you
16:23
Speaker 1: work in and what emergent research or even technology is available.
16:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what's interesting is like these insights aren't necessarily new,
16:32
Speaker 2: but it's building upon older research, right. And what I'm
16:36
Speaker 2: noticing is this like consistent patternly here that especially when
16:39
Speaker 2: it comes to children and their emotional and behavioral issues.
16:43
Speaker 2: You know, we often think the first protocol is therapy,
16:46
Speaker 2: and then we kind of get frustrated with these therapy
16:48
Speaker 2: wait lists and you know, there's not enough child therapists
16:51
Speaker 2: out there, and it's so inaccessible in terms of cost
16:53
Speaker 2: and getting kids there. But what the research shows is
16:57
Speaker 2: it's actually for mild or moderate issue use. Para professionals
17:02
Speaker 2: are actually the same, if not better, in some ways
17:06
Speaker 2: in dealing with those things. And power professionals are people
17:09
Speaker 2: like teachers and other allied health professionals or even parents
17:12
Speaker 2: that have kind of done a bit of coaching. So
17:14
Speaker 2: it's people who are with kids, you know, day and
17:16
Speaker 2: day out, and they've got some kind of base level training,
17:18
Speaker 2: but they're not therapists, and they're not licensed and accredit
17:21
Speaker 2: and all of that. They still actually do really well,
17:24
Speaker 2: like I said, if not better at supporting kids through this.
17:27
Speaker 2: So what I feel like it almost then challenges as
17:30
Speaker 2: current mental health system, like they're the only ones that
17:33
Speaker 2: can kind of deal with kids struggling. Rather, you know,
17:37
Speaker 2: we think of like can one hour or a week
17:39
Speaker 2: really be as powerful as all these other hours. A
17:42
Speaker 2: perfect example I was thinking about this is like a physio.
17:45
Speaker 2: Right If you had an injury and you go into
17:47
Speaker 2: a physio and they're like, Okay, these are the exercises
17:49
Speaker 2: you need to do. Your progress would be significantly stalled
17:53
Speaker 2: if you only do those exercises when you're with the physio,
17:55
Speaker 2: rather than them giving you a bit of a home
17:56
Speaker 2: plan and every day you're chipping away at these exercises.
18:00
Speaker 2: It's like kind of the same principle, but it's not
18:05
Speaker 2: this generic list of I'll try this with your child.
18:07
Speaker 2: It's like, we need to actually look at the whole
18:08
Speaker 2: picture here, and what do you need more often able
18:11
Speaker 2: to be able to like see this issue kind of
18:14
Speaker 2: where your role is, where you feel like probably you're
18:17
Speaker 2: not taking enough responsibility, you're taking too much responsibility, and
18:20
Speaker 2: really being able to approach it in that way and
18:23
Speaker 2: then give the kids a space to process it outside
18:25
Speaker 2: of therapy, because therapy is always meant to be time limited.
18:28
Speaker 2: You know, no one's in therapy twenty four to seven.
18:30
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, I have a beautiful story around. I
18:34
Speaker 1: think it's beautiful. It's interesting anyway. So I used to
18:39
Speaker 1: say to my clients by PT clients who are trained
18:42
Speaker 1: for thirty years more, there's one hundred and sixty eight
18:46
Speaker 1: hours in a week, and you see me for one
18:49
Speaker 1: or maybe two or three, depending on the client. And
18:52
Speaker 1: I'd say, actually, in the terms of in terms of
18:55
Speaker 1: your overall results and progress and development and alleviation of
19:00
Speaker 1: symptoms and problems, what matters is what you do when
19:03
Speaker 1: you're not with me, What you do when you're with
19:06
Speaker 1: me is a done deal because I'm guiding the session.
19:10
Speaker 1: You're doing the thing you need to do the way
19:12
Speaker 1: that you need to do it. You're lifting or stretching
19:15
Speaker 1: or running or moving the way that's required by me
19:19
Speaker 1: for your body with your challenges or issues or goals
19:22
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. And then which is literally true,
19:26
Speaker 1: some of them would leave the gym and drive to
19:28
Speaker 1: the bakery and buy two pies. And I'm like, when
19:32
Speaker 1: their goal is to have a healthier lifestyle and to
19:35
Speaker 1: maybe get a bit leaner and change their body composition,
19:38
Speaker 1: and so the capacity that people would have to you know,
19:43
Speaker 1: like typically let's say someone trains two days a week
19:46
Speaker 1: for an hour with a trainer. Now there's one hundred
19:48
Speaker 1: and sixty six remaining hours. Of course, some of that's
19:51
Speaker 1: sleeping and traveling, but all of those awake hours, it's
19:56
Speaker 1: still up to you to try to do as best
19:59
Speaker 1: you can the things that are going to complement what
20:04
Speaker 1: you're doing when you're with your in your case, therapist
20:08
Speaker 1: or my case, excise scientist or physiologist or personal trainer.
20:14
Speaker 1: Because it's the totality of the work and the totality
20:18
Speaker 1: of the hours. Yeah, rockin' up to see you once
20:21
Speaker 1: a week ain't a solution. It's almost just a catch
20:25
Speaker 1: up and a reminder and an education session and maybe
20:28
Speaker 1: a motivation session. But really it's what happens around the
20:32
Speaker 1: work that they do with you or me, which informs
20:37
Speaker 1: and shapes and determines the big picture outcome. Because if
20:42
Speaker 1: somebody trained with me three hours a week and it
20:44
Speaker 1: was the best possible training available and they did it perfectly,
20:51
Speaker 1: it's still overall less than two percent of their time.
20:55
Speaker 2: Yes, that's the point.
20:57
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a ninety eight percent that you're not with me,
21:00
Speaker 1: that you can.
21:01
Speaker 2: Be kind of sabotaging those results with you, Ryan.
21:04
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so, And it's firstly, you know, if you're
21:08
Speaker 1: seeing a dietitian or a trainer or a therapist, well done.
21:12
Speaker 1: That's definitely if you've got the right person, it's definitely
21:15
Speaker 1: a good start. It's a great start. But also that's
21:19
Speaker 1: not the work. The work is what happens away from there. Yeah,
21:24
Speaker 1: The work is our ability to be able to go
21:26
Speaker 1: all right, Well, I saw Craig, and I know I've
21:29
Speaker 1: got to do this each day, and that each day
21:31
Speaker 1: based on my own goals, based on what I say
21:34
Speaker 1: I want to do be create change. But it's then
21:38
Speaker 1: to go away and do it. It's then to be able
21:40
Speaker 1: to do the work when no one's looking or cheering
21:42
Speaker 1: or supporting or endorsing or complementing, because that's the stuff.
21:47
Speaker 1: And it's like I feel like with all even with doctors,
21:51
Speaker 1: with dietitians, with a lot of healthcare experts, is to
21:57
Speaker 1: And this is not about blame. This is just about
21:59
Speaker 1: the reality of how do we really create shift really
22:04
Speaker 1: and how do we really sustain that and build on that.
22:09
Speaker 1: So to drop in and see someone once or twice
22:12
Speaker 1: a week is a piece of the overall puzzle. It
22:17
Speaker 1: is not the totality of the puzzle or the solution
22:20
Speaker 1: to the puzzle.
22:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, and see, you think about it, especially with your industry, right,
22:24
Speaker 2: imagine if you were spending because you do like you're
22:26
Speaker 2: spending that time, say like actually taking your client through
22:29
Speaker 2: exercises and so you're focusing on the reps that they're
22:31
Speaker 2: doing in their forms. Okay, but then you know at
22:34
Speaker 2: the end there they're kind of throwing in that they're
22:35
Speaker 2: going to go to the bakery and just kind of
22:36
Speaker 2: smash all that food. It's like, you know, that there
22:39
Speaker 2: is this education then that has kind of like not
22:42
Speaker 2: landed or they don't know or you kind of want
22:44
Speaker 2: to like explain. But then where is the time for
22:46
Speaker 2: that when you're doing all these things. I think about
22:47
Speaker 2: that the child therapy, when you're focusing on the child,
22:50
Speaker 2: you kind of like you may pick up things either
22:53
Speaker 2: from them or what the parents say around or I
22:55
Speaker 2: probably want to like give you another perspective on this,
22:57
Speaker 2: or I want to give you this info, but then
23:00
Speaker 2: there's no space to do that. And so how can
23:02
Speaker 2: you actually create that that sustainable change when you're like
23:06
Speaker 2: it's almost like a bit of a band effix, isn't
23:07
Speaker 2: it really?
23:09
Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, and I think we need to realize, you
23:12
Speaker 1: know whoever, Like I've got a bit of a stuffed shoulder.
23:16
Speaker 1: So I saw a physio recently and he was great,
23:19
Speaker 1: but we would have spent total thirty minutes. Haven't seen
23:22
Speaker 1: him since. And he kind of gave me three rehab
23:27
Speaker 1: things he wants me to do, which fortunately for me,
23:32
Speaker 1: I've been doing. But and this has not been critical
23:36
Speaker 1: but just really practical because this is what happens. I
23:40
Speaker 1: would say ninety five, maybe ninety I don't know. I'm guessing.
23:43
Speaker 1: But people who get given specific rehab to do off
23:46
Speaker 1: the back of, you know, a diagnosis of you know,
23:49
Speaker 1: a knee or shoulder or hip or back or whatever
23:52
Speaker 1: issue in that context, they don't do the rehab, or
23:56
Speaker 1: they do it for a bit and then they stop, yeah,
23:59
Speaker 1: you know. Or they they go to the dietitian because
24:02
Speaker 1: they want to change their diet, that's why they go,
24:05
Speaker 1: and they want to change their body. That's why. Like,
24:08
Speaker 1: no one's twisting their arm to show up. Like, I
24:10
Speaker 1: don't tell people what to do or advise people what
24:13
Speaker 1: to do in my job that have not come to
24:16
Speaker 1: see me to get that advice. Yeah, so I'm not
24:20
Speaker 1: just walking up to strangers telling and what to do. Right,
24:22
Speaker 1: this is based on.
24:24
Speaker 2: Them coming to you and paying for a service. But
24:27
Speaker 2: then then why don't they do it? Do you think
24:29
Speaker 2: like with the physio, right, they're like, okay, they get
24:31
Speaker 2: the exercises, do they actually follow through to then get
24:33
Speaker 2: their next set of exercises or do they just drop off?
24:36
Speaker 1: Well, some do, some don't. That's the and this is
24:38
Speaker 1: not this is human behavior. I've done the exact same
24:42
Speaker 1: thing where I've said I'd do something and I didn't
24:44
Speaker 1: do it. It's not because I'm bad or broken. It's
24:46
Speaker 1: just because whatever reason, maybe I don't enjoy it. But
24:50
Speaker 1: then the thing is, well, the things that you need
24:52
Speaker 1: to do, Craig or often not enjoyable, but the result
24:56
Speaker 1: will be enjoyable. But the process might suck, cess might
25:00
Speaker 1: be shitty, it might be uncomfortable, it might be inconvenient,
25:04
Speaker 1: it might be a bunch of things. But you're not
25:07
Speaker 1: doing it because it's fun. You're not doing it because
25:10
Speaker 1: it's terrific. You're doing it because it will change the
25:13
Speaker 1: thing that you want to be changed. It will take
25:16
Speaker 1: that from a negative to a positive, from less function
25:19
Speaker 1: to more function, to from more pain to less pain.
25:23
Speaker 1: This is why we do it, but it's it's in
25:25
Speaker 1: the actual work that we go, ah fuck, it doesn't
25:29
Speaker 1: And because it's not always instant or painless, right, And.
25:33
Speaker 2: Do you think then we kind of justify it with
25:34
Speaker 2: like oh it's too easy, like it's not going to
25:36
Speaker 2: do anything, or it's too hard, I can't do it.
25:38
Speaker 2: It's almost like we kind of like justify it to
25:41
Speaker 2: ourselves so we feel better about while we're not doing it.
25:44
Speaker 1: Oh look, I think it's different things for different people.
25:46
Speaker 1: That's a good question. But I I just had a
25:51
Speaker 1: chat with somebody in fact, half an hour before we chatted.
25:55
Speaker 1: But you know, there's just this whole com like when
26:00
Speaker 1: people come to me which I had today and shout
26:04
Speaker 1: out to them. They know who they are and they
26:08
Speaker 1: a myriad of things going on. But one of the
26:10
Speaker 1: things is they really want to get back in shape
26:16
Speaker 1: and whatever that means. But this person knows what it means.
26:19
Speaker 1: But it's like, yeah, so well, there's training, and then
26:24
Speaker 1: there's well what kind of training. There's your strength and
26:26
Speaker 1: your flexibility and your aerobic stuff, and then you know,
26:29
Speaker 1: depending on where you're at, balance, coordination, all those things.
26:32
Speaker 1: Then there's there's nutrition, your micros and macros and what
26:36
Speaker 1: time do you eat and how much do you eat?
26:38
Speaker 1: And you know, how processed is your food and you know,
26:42
Speaker 1: And then there's sleep and when do you sleep and
26:44
Speaker 1: how much and what quality? And then there's lifestyle and
26:47
Speaker 1: will do you drink booze? If you do drink booze
26:49
Speaker 1: when and what is your relationship with booze and how
26:53
Speaker 1: much do you have? And if you medicate, what's the
26:55
Speaker 1: medication if you take supplements, what are those? Also let's
26:59
Speaker 1: talk about the social stuff, because how you socialize or
27:02
Speaker 1: don't socialize impacts everything from your endocrime system, to your
27:07
Speaker 1: mental state, to your cognitive capacity to your immune system.
27:11
Speaker 1: Lonely people are quite often sick people or eventually because
27:17
Speaker 1: you know, loneliness creates a physiological consequence. Often that's inflammation,
27:22
Speaker 1: which leads to disease. And like, there are so many
27:25
Speaker 1: of these things, which sounds overwhelming, but I think you know,
27:30
Speaker 1: like one of the reasons I called this show that
27:32
Speaker 1: you project is because the biggest project we will have
27:35
Speaker 1: in our life is us. Like the ever present challenge
27:40
Speaker 1: is for SAM to understand the science of SAM.
27:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you might call one And when you think
27:47
Speaker 2: about it, like whether it's our kids or relationships or friends,
27:50
Speaker 2: everyone will come and go, but we we are with
27:53
Speaker 2: ourselves for the rest of our lives. This is who
27:56
Speaker 2: we are with So you're right, like it would be
27:58
Speaker 2: our best interest on the.
27:59
Speaker 1: Sound, Well, you're the constant. You're the constant. All the
28:02
Speaker 1: other things are variables. You can't control most of the
28:05
Speaker 1: variables that happen to you or around you. The variables
28:11
Speaker 1: that you can control, you know, food, exercise, lifestyle, booze, sleep,
28:15
Speaker 1: sleep will put an asterisk next to that. But it's
28:19
Speaker 1: then to figure out, well, these ten things significant impactors
28:25
Speaker 1: of or variables or factors of how I function, like
28:30
Speaker 1: how my health is. Then it's trying to figure out
28:33
Speaker 1: what's the best protocol for me, what's the best method
28:39
Speaker 1: or strategy or system for me? And then that trying
28:45
Speaker 1: to understand, well, when I do this to my body,
28:49
Speaker 1: what's the outcome? What's the physiological and or emotional outcome
28:54
Speaker 1: when I do that to my body? When I eat
28:56
Speaker 1: at nine o'clock, what does that do? When I eat
28:58
Speaker 1: the same meal? What's the difference when I stop drinking
29:03
Speaker 1: at six pm not nine pm? Or when I have
29:06
Speaker 1: no booze versus some boo Like it's not that complicated,
29:13
Speaker 1: It's not easy.
29:14
Speaker 2: Can that make the difference? Like when you look at
29:16
Speaker 2: the clients that you work with in terms of like
29:19
Speaker 2: the fitness and the nutrition, do you think the things
29:21
Speaker 2: that they don't really probably you know, would have thought off,
29:24
Speaker 2: like around the meal timings, and that makes the difference
29:28
Speaker 2: that that stuff adds up?
29:31
Speaker 1: I think definitely it does, you know what, I really think.
29:34
Speaker 1: I think that one of the key reasons people don't
29:37
Speaker 1: get there doing the practical, real world kind of controllable
29:42
Speaker 1: things like changing you know, changing habits and behaviors that
29:46
Speaker 1: influence outcomes is because the results are not quick, and
29:49
Speaker 1: everyone loves quick everyone loves instant gratification, which is why
29:55
Speaker 1: so many people are using so many drugs at the
29:58
Speaker 1: moment that such a profound impact in a short time.
30:03
Speaker 1: And I'm not picking on anyone, and I'm not talking
30:06
Speaker 1: about a specific drug, but you know that the reality
30:10
Speaker 1: is to create sustainable long term health, I mean decades,
30:16
Speaker 1: not months, but decades. You know, this is really more
30:22
Speaker 1: about choices, habits, behaviors, lifestyle, food, relationship with food, relationship
30:31
Speaker 1: with your own body. Even most people that I have
30:34
Speaker 1: worked with, or many, I should say, have somewhere between
30:38
Speaker 1: a little bit and a lot of body dys morphia.
30:41
Speaker 1: How many people do you know that are in pretty
30:44
Speaker 1: good shape that think they're fat or ugly.
30:46
Speaker 2: Or everyone like it's almost like them more, you know,
30:49
Speaker 2: you see, like you would be like, wow, they're so beautiful,
30:51
Speaker 2: they're so fit. They actually probably have the most really
30:53
Speaker 2: because they're like more focused on it, or they're more
30:56
Speaker 2: like I can't let this go or you know, there's
30:59
Speaker 2: a that's a good point, and there's so many different
31:01
Speaker 2: factors that would actually influence It's not just like here's
31:04
Speaker 2: your diet plan, here's your training plan. It's like all
31:07
Speaker 2: these other things that are potentially like in the background
31:10
Speaker 2: sabotaging our results that you don't even realize. And we
31:13
Speaker 2: need time and it's not a quite fixed It takes
31:15
Speaker 2: time to work through those patterns and those issues.
31:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you think that none of that is about
31:22
Speaker 1: actually about your diet or your genetic potential, or your
31:26
Speaker 1: hours in a day or what's possible for you. That's
31:30
Speaker 1: all about how do I think about myself. I'm a
31:34
Speaker 1: piece of shit, I'm ugly, I'm unlovable, I'm fat, I'm
31:39
Speaker 1: all of these things that we humans think about ourselves.
31:42
Speaker 1: So you realize that on a level, even changing your
31:47
Speaker 1: body is not about your body. Changing your body is
31:51
Speaker 1: a largely psychological, behavioral and emotional process with a physical consequence.
31:58
Speaker 1: You know, is how do because my mind or my
32:01
Speaker 1: brain is my operational headquarters. So I don't accidentally drink booze,
32:07
Speaker 1: I choose it. I don't accidentally not go to the gym.
32:10
Speaker 1: I choose that. I don't accidentally eat food that doesn't
32:15
Speaker 1: align with my values. I choose that. Now, this is
32:17
Speaker 1: not being This is not self loathing. This is accountability.
32:21
Speaker 1: This is a responsibility.
32:23
Speaker 2: You So you're saying that you change your internal process
32:26
Speaker 2: and then the body is almost like the result of that,
32:30
Speaker 2: Like that's just the flow up.
32:32
Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, Well, your deltoids and your triceps are
32:38
Speaker 1: not making decisions, you know, they're just responding. They're just
32:44
Speaker 1: responding to the decisions you make. If I gain ten
32:48
Speaker 1: kilos of fat in the next six months, my body
32:51
Speaker 1: didn't choose that or want that. That's just a result
32:55
Speaker 1: of what I have done to my body with food,
32:58
Speaker 1: with movement or lack of movement, with alcohol, with whatever.
33:04
Speaker 1: That's just a byproduct of my choices and behaviors. And
33:07
Speaker 1: then the visible outcome or result is what I look like,
33:11
Speaker 1: function like, feel like. That's a consequence.
33:15
Speaker 2: Ah, so sure it's not just for mine.
33:19
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, obviously there are other variables that are
33:21
Speaker 1: harder to control, the endocrine system, genetics, all of that.
33:25
Speaker 1: But even within that, you go, like, I was twenty
33:30
Speaker 1: nearly twenty kilos heavier than I am now when I
33:32
Speaker 1: was fourteen. So you go, well, Craig, you're an endomorph,
33:36
Speaker 1: which means you're genetically predisposed to carry body fat or
33:39
Speaker 1: gain body fat more easily than some people. Now does
33:43
Speaker 1: that mean you are then destined for a life of obesity. No,
33:48
Speaker 1: it just means it's easier for you for one of
33:51
Speaker 1: a better term to gain weight. So I can't wake
33:55
Speaker 1: up tomorrow and be an ectomorph or mesomorph. But what
33:57
Speaker 1: I can do is wake up tomorrow and going all
33:59
Speaker 1: right with these genetics, with my goals, with my resources,
34:03
Speaker 1: with my brain, with my time availability, what is the
34:07
Speaker 1: best thing I can do for my body? Like even
34:10
Speaker 1: now it's sixty two, I go, well, I can't wake
34:13
Speaker 1: up and be thirty two and without injuries. I have injuries.
34:17
Speaker 1: I'm sixty two, I've got nearly fifty years of training
34:21
Speaker 1: under my belt. What is the best diet or nutritional
34:25
Speaker 1: approach for me? Not anyone else me?
34:28
Speaker 2: So you have to be intentional with that, right, because,
34:30
Speaker 2: like you said, you've got this genetic kind of like
34:32
Speaker 2: you know, thing that you're working against. It's not like
34:34
Speaker 2: you can just wake up and expect everything to fall
34:36
Speaker 2: into place. You're clearly intentional about how you approach it.
34:40
Speaker 1: Yes, and you don't need to be obsessed. In fact,
34:43
Speaker 1: please don't be obsessed about your body. But here's the thing.
34:46
Speaker 1: Your body is pretty much the only resource you have
34:49
Speaker 1: that you cannot replace. Right, You can't get a new body.
34:54
Speaker 1: You can't go, oh, I fucked the last one. I'll
34:56
Speaker 1: get another one. No, you only get one. So it's
35:00
Speaker 1: not about six percent body fat. It's not about Instagram photos.
35:04
Speaker 1: It's not about how pretty, handsome, lean, jacked, gorgeous am I.
35:08
Speaker 1: It isn't about that. It is about how do I
35:12
Speaker 1: make this thing that I live in work well as
35:16
Speaker 1: well as it can. So I want to be I
35:20
Speaker 1: want my brain and my emotional system and my mind
35:24
Speaker 1: and my body more broadly speaking, to be optimal for
35:30
Speaker 1: the sixty two year old endomorph that I am. I
35:34
Speaker 1: don't want to wake up tomorrow with new genetics, or
35:37
Speaker 1: wake up tomorrow and B thirty or wake up tomorrow
35:40
Speaker 1: and b three percent body fat and running three minute k's,
35:43
Speaker 1: because none of that is possible. So then you go, well,
35:46
Speaker 1: what is possible? Well, what is possible is that I
35:50
Speaker 1: create a system that works optimally for my body, for
35:54
Speaker 1: my brain, for my lifestyle, and for the life that
35:58
Speaker 1: I want to live.
36:00
Speaker 2: I love that approach. It's almost like it goes away
36:04
Speaker 2: from just I need this this goal. That's like, like
36:07
Speaker 2: you said, this percent bodies are or you know, to
36:09
Speaker 2: look a certain way rather than going I actually just
36:11
Speaker 2: want to I want to function better. And yes you
36:13
Speaker 2: can have those girls, but you're like ultimately like this
36:16
Speaker 2: is all I've got. This is a body that's going
36:18
Speaker 2: to take me to work, It's going to you know,
36:19
Speaker 2: when I'm on holidays. Like all the things that I'm
36:21
Speaker 2: doing is really reliant on my health, and so I
36:24
Speaker 2: want to be able to move well, you know, without
36:26
Speaker 2: pain like all of those things.
36:28
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I think sometimes a better approach is not
36:33
Speaker 1: what are my goals for my body, but what are
36:36
Speaker 1: my standards?
36:38
Speaker 2: What is going to be yourself?
36:40
Speaker 1: What are my standards, what is my protocol? What are
36:42
Speaker 1: my non negotiables. So I've never had alcohol, and that's
36:47
Speaker 1: not that's not a brand, that's just that's just a reality.
36:51
Speaker 1: I've never had booze. And the reason that I don't
36:54
Speaker 1: is because when I weigh it up, do I think
36:56
Speaker 1: alcohol would be a positive or a negative in my life?
37:00
Speaker 1: I think the answer is a negative. Therefore I never started.
37:03
Speaker 1: I lift weights every day because I aren't not that
37:06
Speaker 1: everybody needs to do that of course, but I understand
37:09
Speaker 1: the multitude of benefits from being strong, and there are many.
37:14
Speaker 1: I walk over ten thousand steps every day because I
37:17
Speaker 1: understand the value of that. And it's not that I
37:21
Speaker 1: love going to the gym and lifting shit, or I
37:23
Speaker 1: love walking fifteen thousand steps or whatever, or I love
37:27
Speaker 1: being the only person at a wedding that's not having
37:30
Speaker 1: any alcohol. It's none of that. It's just like, oh,
37:32
Speaker 1: that wouldn't work for me. And so I don't want
37:36
Speaker 1: to be the person who fucks up their body consciously
37:40
Speaker 1: or not, but fucks up their body with certain habits, patterns,
37:43
Speaker 1: behavior's lifestyle choices and then has to try to figure
37:47
Speaker 1: out how to undo it when they're fifty or sixty.
37:51
Speaker 2: I love that reframe, though, about the standard that I
37:53
Speaker 2: have for myself. It's almost like it's a standard that
37:56
Speaker 2: you wouldn't even need to kind of verbally say, but
37:58
Speaker 2: people would see that in the way that you're body is,
38:00
Speaker 2: in the way that you hold yourself to like, you know,
38:03
Speaker 2: don't I'm not going to go get drunk like every weekend,
38:05
Speaker 2: or you know, like all of that kind of stuff.
38:07
Speaker 2: They're just like, Okay, this person respects themselves when they're
38:10
Speaker 2: really intentional with what they put in their body, how
38:12
Speaker 2: they move their body. I think that that's just yeah,
38:16
Speaker 2: the way that you frame that with the standards, And.
38:19
Speaker 1: I think here's the thing. When something is a standard,
38:21
Speaker 1: it's a non negotiable, right. You don't have to get
38:25
Speaker 1: excited or pumped or motivated or inspired. You don't need
38:29
Speaker 1: a cheer squad, you don't need discipline or self control,
38:31
Speaker 1: because this is just this is my normal operating system.
38:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're right. Actually, it's not like I'm just
38:39
Speaker 2: doing this for a couple of months or you've got
38:41
Speaker 2: to force yourself into it. It's like, this is just
38:43
Speaker 2: how I treat myself. Like probably the more you normalize it,
38:47
Speaker 2: the easier it gets.
38:48
Speaker 1: Right, I say to people, what is okay? Let's ask
38:54
Speaker 1: some really dumb questions. Do you want to be living
38:57
Speaker 1: in a version of your body that's the best version
39:01
Speaker 1: of that body that it can be based on your
39:03
Speaker 1: genetics and age and all, or do you want to
39:06
Speaker 1: be in something that's okay but not optimal. Everyone goes
39:09
Speaker 1: I want optimal, nobody says I want mediocre nobody.
39:14
Speaker 2: But they don't realize though that like for you, it's
39:17
Speaker 2: a series of how many decisions that you make all
39:20
Speaker 2: the time, right, that have led you to that, Like
39:22
Speaker 2: if they want, let's just say what you've got, it's
39:25
Speaker 2: not just you can't get that in a couple of weeks.
39:27
Speaker 1: Well and also true, but then you know, at the
39:32
Speaker 1: same time, do I enjoy eating? Yeah, I love my meals.
39:35
Speaker 1: I get great pleasure from food. I don't live this
39:38
Speaker 1: sacrificial life. When I'm out drinking and I'm the only
39:42
Speaker 1: one not drinking, do I feel deprived? No, because I
39:46
Speaker 1: just do not drink booze. It's like you've never had
39:48
Speaker 1: a cigarette, and I go, oh, but Sam, don't you
39:51
Speaker 1: just feel like.
39:51
Speaker 2: One, No, because you're like, I don't know what that
39:53
Speaker 2: feels like.
39:55
Speaker 1: ASO, I know how bad that shit is for me.
39:58
Speaker 1: So if I'm if I've got thirty friends and they
40:01
Speaker 1: all smoke, I'm still not going to smoke.
40:05
Speaker 2: It's not like yeah, exactly. And it's the same with
40:07
Speaker 2: the food. I guess you don't feel deprived because you're like,
40:10
Speaker 2: I know how good this food makes me feel, or
40:12
Speaker 2: I know that it's like super aligned. So you're not
40:15
Speaker 2: your urean bean is a sacrifice. You're welcoming the opportunity to.
40:20
Speaker 1: That's right. And when you change your food really not temporarily,
40:24
Speaker 1: really like this is how I eat, I still have joy.
40:28
Speaker 1: There's still pleasure in eating. You know, I'm not eating
40:30
Speaker 1: a lettuce leave five times a day like I'm eating
40:33
Speaker 1: great food. Yeah, once you eat really well, then you
40:38
Speaker 1: go back and eat what I would call but experts wouldn't.
40:42
Speaker 1: But you go and eat shit. It makes you feel
40:45
Speaker 1: fucking horrible, Yeah, because there's just so much crap in it,
40:50
Speaker 1: so much process crap that your body has been kind
40:55
Speaker 1: of cleansed from. You know that it doesn't it doesn't
41:00
Speaker 1: work for you, and that's all right. And so you
41:04
Speaker 1: know when people say, oh, surely you can have a
41:05
Speaker 1: bit of cake or surely yeah, of course. And I'm
41:08
Speaker 1: not saying don't, I'm just saying everything that you want.
41:13
Speaker 1: Do you really want that optimal body, Well, then you
41:17
Speaker 1: need to do optimal things. Yeah, you want to six
41:20
Speaker 1: out a ten version of you, then make a six
41:22
Speaker 1: out of ten effort, you know.
41:24
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's a good point. And maybe then you
41:26
Speaker 2: don't ever stop wanting even with something that you want,
41:28
Speaker 2: you maybe don't ever stop wanting that cake, But you
41:30
Speaker 2: want this other life more. You want your body to
41:32
Speaker 2: feel great more. It's almost like that look.
41:35
Speaker 1: Yes. But also having said all of that, do I
41:38
Speaker 1: think I could you know, do I ever eat something
41:42
Speaker 1: that doesn't really fit in with Yeah? I do, but
41:48
Speaker 1: but it's a conscious decision. But it's very rare for me,
41:54
Speaker 1: and often when I do it, you know, like my
41:58
Speaker 1: kryptonite is cheese cake. But I remember I had a
42:02
Speaker 1: piece of cheese. Yeah, I had a piece of cheesecake
42:05
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and I couldn't even get
42:08
Speaker 1: through it. It was so sweet and so sickly and.
42:12
Speaker 2: So your body. You just get used to not having
42:15
Speaker 2: that stuff that I could imagine when you have it,
42:17
Speaker 2: it kind of like shocks it a little of them.
42:19
Speaker 1: But what's funny also, this has been this is just
42:21
Speaker 1: a personal experience, but the amount of people that have
42:25
Speaker 1: told me over the years how boring I am. Oh,
42:30
Speaker 1: you're boring, right, because I don't eat the way that
42:32
Speaker 1: they eat or they think I should eat, I'm boring,
42:37
Speaker 1: or I'm you know, I'm addictive in my back whatever
42:43
Speaker 1: or what's the word, you know, basically you're irrational or
42:47
Speaker 1: and it's cool, it's I go to you maybe based
42:51
Speaker 1: on the window through which you assess me maybe, and
42:54
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. I'm not offended. But the bottom
42:58
Speaker 1: line is, you know, especially I think, look, until you're
43:02
Speaker 1: about forty, you can get away with a lot. But
43:04
Speaker 1: I think after forty you really need to get your
43:07
Speaker 1: shit together. And I think it's.
43:10
Speaker 2: Thirty five and everything's been going downhill for me since
43:12
Speaker 2: I ten thirty fust really, yeah, I just feel it.
43:16
Speaker 2: I feel really stagnant with the weights I can lift.
43:19
Speaker 2: I just feel like, yeah, everything just feels different since
43:23
Speaker 2: I ten thirty five last year.
43:25
Speaker 1: So do you get good sleep though? Yeah?
43:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.
43:33
Speaker 1: Well, we won't turn this into a personal consult all
43:36
Speaker 1: I would say to you, and there's many things I can,
43:39
Speaker 1: but I'll say this because I think it's broadly relevant
43:41
Speaker 1: because a lot of our listeners work out, whether or
43:44
Speaker 1: not that's at a gym or you got to remember that,
43:47
Speaker 1: especially with strength training, your body will only adapt improve,
43:52
Speaker 1: get stronger, you know, more flexibility, more muscular endurance, whatever,
43:58
Speaker 1: when you stimulate it the way that it needs to
44:00
Speaker 1: be stimulated. The truth is, in a lot of gyms,
44:03
Speaker 1: a lot of people essentially do a version of the
44:06
Speaker 1: same workout in perpetuity. You know, they do the same
44:11
Speaker 1: thing for years. It's the same workout pretty much. It's
44:15
Speaker 1: the same machines, it's the same sets, reps, weights, movements,
44:21
Speaker 1: same recovery time, and your body adapts. And once your
44:25
Speaker 1: body adapts to that particular stimulus or stress, then it
44:28
Speaker 1: doesn't need to change because there's no change in stimulus
44:33
Speaker 1: or stress. So strength gain is a physiological adaptation to
44:38
Speaker 1: a kind of stress. Flexibility improvement is a physiological adaptation.
44:42
Speaker 1: You know, same with aerobic capacity, you know, same with
44:46
Speaker 1: all of these things. Your job in the gym is
44:47
Speaker 1: not to get muscly or big or strong or small
44:51
Speaker 1: or you know. Your job in the gym is to
44:52
Speaker 1: stimulate your body in a way that post workout, it
44:56
Speaker 1: will adapt the way that you want it to to
44:59
Speaker 1: look or feel, or function or work the way that
45:02
Speaker 1: for you is a version of improvement.
45:05
Speaker 2: Yep. So that's a good point that that's the problem, right,
45:09
Speaker 2: we just work out in the same ways all the time,
45:11
Speaker 2: and it's like, why, of course things aren't changing then,
45:13
Speaker 2: because we're doing the exact things.
45:15
Speaker 1: I know, guys who've been bench pressing bar bell and
45:18
Speaker 1: bench press for thirty years, I go, why don't you
45:21
Speaker 1: jump on the ball. Why don't you use a fitball
45:24
Speaker 1: and use dumbbells all of a sudden, Now, it's it's
45:27
Speaker 1: unilateral using both shoulder and both arm independant of the
45:31
Speaker 1: other one. You're on a moving surface, which means it's unstable,
45:36
Speaker 1: which means you have to use all of your stabilizers
45:39
Speaker 1: from the toes to your head. Ah, it's a convex
45:46
Speaker 1: shape that you're on. It's not a flat bench. And
45:48
Speaker 1: what that means is that when you're on a round
45:51
Speaker 1: shape like that, your shoulders can retract naturally, which when
45:55
Speaker 1: you bring the bar down, your shoulders retract or your
45:58
Speaker 1: scapular retract, that is, come closer to the spine. But
46:02
Speaker 1: when you're on a bench it doesn't allow that to
46:04
Speaker 1: happen normally, but on a ball it does. So people
46:07
Speaker 1: get shoulder overload and shoulder injuries because firstly, benching on
46:12
Speaker 1: a bench is not optimal. Benching on a ball is better,
46:16
Speaker 1: but it's not cool, and big strong guys don't want
46:19
Speaker 1: a bench on a ball because it's fucking not manly.
46:23
Speaker 1: But anatomically and functionally it's better.
46:27
Speaker 2: Or so interesting, Yeah, you would. I wouldn't think that either.
46:29
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, yeah, it's like a ball and
46:31
Speaker 2: dumbbells is not going to be superior to a bench
46:34
Speaker 2: and a barbell. But that makes sense because it is,
46:36
Speaker 2: like you said, using the stabilization movements you've got.
46:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you think if you're even worse still, you're
46:43
Speaker 1: on it. By the way, I'm not anti machines. Machines
46:45
Speaker 1: are great for certain populations at certain stages of their training.
46:50
Speaker 1: But when you're sitting on an upright chest press and
46:53
Speaker 1: you're just sitting there pushing your hands away from your body,
46:56
Speaker 1: you're doing a bench press movement, but in an upright position,
47:00
Speaker 1: you don't have to balance anything, you don't have to
47:02
Speaker 1: set up weights, you don't have to stabilize. All you
47:05
Speaker 1: do is push. So you might gain some shoulder, anterior
47:09
Speaker 1: delt and chest and tricep strength, but on a functional
47:14
Speaker 1: point of view, it's not super valuable. You know, it's
47:19
Speaker 1: good in that you're building strength, but using another piece
47:24
Speaker 1: of equipment or pieces of equipment, doing the same anatomical
47:27
Speaker 1: movement but with less stability. Obviously right exercise for the
47:32
Speaker 1: right person. But all of a sudden, now you're not
47:35
Speaker 1: just training your peck major you're training your core, your
47:40
Speaker 1: transversus subdominance, your rector subdominance. You're training your internal and
47:46
Speaker 1: internal rotators of your shoulder, You're engaging your ass, your glutes,
47:50
Speaker 1: and your hamstrings because you're not The amount of your
47:53
Speaker 1: body that's in contact with the bench in inverted commas
47:57
Speaker 1: is only like six inches because you're on a You're
48:00
Speaker 1: not laying your whole torso on a bench. So like
48:05
Speaker 1: a lot of the unsexy stuff is the stuff that works. Great.
48:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, so interesting, and that's such a good point. And
48:13
Speaker 2: then it comes down to being intentional about what your
48:16
Speaker 2: goals are and what you're trying to achieve and then
48:17
Speaker 2: picking the right exercises for that, not just copying what
48:20
Speaker 2: somebody else is doing because you think that that's going
48:22
Speaker 2: to lead to the body you want all the goals.
48:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also going what have I been doing for
48:27
Speaker 1: the last three months and have I changed? And if
48:29
Speaker 1: the answer is not, really, then why the fuck are
48:32
Speaker 1: you still doing the same program?
48:34
Speaker 2: I feel caught out, well.
48:37
Speaker 1: That I don't mean this to be, but it's good.
48:39
Speaker 2: It's true though that exactly.
48:41
Speaker 1: You are in the normal group about now. This is
48:46
Speaker 1: just bro science. This is anecdotal as observed by me
48:49
Speaker 1: but thousands of times I will say most people in
48:53
Speaker 1: the gym are following a maintenance program when they should
48:57
Speaker 1: be doing something that is progressive and varied in nature.
49:01
Speaker 1: So when you follow a maintenance program, which is essentially
49:05
Speaker 1: doing the same thing the same way on repeat, three
49:08
Speaker 1: times a week or whatever it is, you are training
49:11
Speaker 1: your body to be the same. You're not training it
49:13
Speaker 1: to be different. Yeah, because it doesn't need to adapt,
49:17
Speaker 1: because it's fully adapted to the work that you do already.
49:21
Speaker 2: Yep.
49:21
Speaker 1: That's like, let's say, what do you like at yoga? Good? Okay,
49:28
Speaker 1: So all right, let's just pretend though that you're all right.
49:33
Speaker 1: Let's pretend I'm great at it, yeah, and you're shit
49:37
Speaker 1: at it. I'm shit at it too. But we go
49:40
Speaker 1: do a yoga class tonight. Actually, no, let's pretend we're
49:43
Speaker 1: both shit, which we are. So we're not pretending. You
49:46
Speaker 1: and I we could go for run together four k's.
49:49
Speaker 1: We'd probably go, okay, we could do a weights work out.
49:52
Speaker 1: You do what you do, I do what I do.
49:54
Speaker 1: We're okay. Then we go and do something that we
49:57
Speaker 1: don't normally do, like a yoga class that's reasonably hard.
50:02
Speaker 1: You and I saw for eight days. Yeah, because we
50:06
Speaker 1: just don't stimulate our body that way, or we do
50:09
Speaker 1: a reformer class of pilates. Yeah, and we're working against
50:14
Speaker 1: springs and our own body weight and a different kind
50:17
Speaker 1: of different kinds of movement, in different planes of movement,
50:21
Speaker 1: using different equipment. Right, you become fit for what you do,
50:25
Speaker 1: which is why you can get a world class swimmer
50:29
Speaker 1: and get them to go to a five k run
50:32
Speaker 1: and they'll be slower than the average person at the gym,
50:35
Speaker 1: depending on the person and the athlete. So this, I
50:40
Speaker 1: don't know how we got here from child psychology, but
50:45
Speaker 1: this is.
50:45
Speaker 2: A really great dital because I feel like I've learn
50:47
Speaker 2: a lot and it's like you said, it's just things
50:49
Speaker 2: that we all deal with in different ways, and being
50:51
Speaker 2: able to like actually unpack it makes us realize what
50:55
Speaker 2: the deeper issues are. You know. It's not just the
50:58
Speaker 2: service stuff that we see, the newsy, the exercise, it's
51:01
Speaker 2: just it goes so much more underneath that, all these
51:03
Speaker 2: different layers. So I think it was good.
51:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's also an exercise in self awareness.
51:08
Speaker 1: Like if I at dinner at nine o'clock, I sleep
51:10
Speaker 1: shit ify dinner at seven or six thirty, I generally
51:15
Speaker 1: sleep better. Well, that's not hard to figure out the
51:18
Speaker 1: cause and effect.
51:20
Speaker 2: But I don't think people spend enough of time experimenting
51:22
Speaker 2: with themselves around that too. And how like I feel
51:25
Speaker 2: like it rather than trying to get it right, you're
51:27
Speaker 2: just like, let me learn more about myself, let me
51:29
Speaker 2: try this and see and measure the effects, and then
51:31
Speaker 2: let me shift it and see if I know something different.
51:33
Speaker 2: It's like we're always in this state of like, yeah, evaluating,
51:37
Speaker 2: I reckon.
51:38
Speaker 1: Here's my takeaway. The three biggest things that can fix
51:41
Speaker 1: you or fuck you up the quickest in terms of
51:44
Speaker 1: having an impact on look, feel, function in it in
51:48
Speaker 1: short time. One is sleep. Obviously, if you sleep well,
51:54
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden you have two or three
51:56
Speaker 1: days with real bad sleep, you are going to feel horrendous.
52:00
Speaker 1: That's one. Two is stress, yeah, or emotional or psychological trauma.
52:06
Speaker 1: That's that's going to affect your body massively, what you
52:09
Speaker 1: eat and all of that. And the third one, which
52:12
Speaker 1: is the easiest to fix, is dehydration. Because your body's
52:17
Speaker 1: seventy percent water, your brain's ninety percent water. If you're dehydrated,
52:21
Speaker 1: literally your IQ is lower than when you're hydrated.
52:24
Speaker 2: And I feel like that is honestly one of the
52:26
Speaker 2: most basic things, and yet that's the biggest thing with
52:28
Speaker 2: f Yeah, I know, I do. How much water drut today?
52:30
Speaker 2: How I even like like it's just it's wild. I
52:33
Speaker 2: can go so in depth with other things, but then
52:35
Speaker 2: back to basics. Have I drunk water? Thank you?
52:38
Speaker 1: Yeah?
52:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, that should be opposed to those three points.
52:41
Speaker 1: If you're stressed, or if you're under slept, or if
52:44
Speaker 1: you're dehydrated, your momentarily your IQ literally drops your ability
52:50
Speaker 1: to focus and pay attention and to use your brain
52:54
Speaker 1: the way that you want to use it optimally, that deteriorates,
52:58
Speaker 1: and so you know, I know this sounds like doom
53:02
Speaker 1: and gloom, but what I love about those three things
53:05
Speaker 1: is you can address them quite quickly, you know. Yeah,
53:10
Speaker 1: I feel like that was all about me that episode
53:13
Speaker 1: and not really about you or your area of expertise. No.
53:17
Speaker 2: I found that so interesting, and I think these concepts
53:19
Speaker 2: all overlap. Really like what we were talking about the
53:22
Speaker 2: child therapy and you know that one session a week
53:25
Speaker 2: is not going to fix everything is kind of what
53:26
Speaker 2: we were talking about with you, which is one PT
53:28
Speaker 2: session is not going to fix everything too. If you're
53:30
Speaker 2: not addressing all these other things, they could come and
53:32
Speaker 2: have a great pet session with you. But if they're
53:34
Speaker 2: not looking at their sleep and their stress and their hydration,
53:37
Speaker 2: then yeah, they're not going to get the optimal results.
53:39
Speaker 2: Soames like, same concept, different industries.
53:43
Speaker 1: Different application. Look at you putting a pretty little bow
53:46
Speaker 1: on top of it and wrapping it up for us. Hey, Sam,
53:50
Speaker 1: how can people find out more about you and connect.
53:52
Speaker 2: With you my Instagram which is doctor Sam Casey or
53:57
Speaker 2: on my website which is Samcsey dot com.
54:01
Speaker 1: Perfect as always, Thank you, appreciate you, enjoy the warmth.
54:06
Speaker 1: We were talking before we went live that it's currently
54:09
Speaker 1: ten degrees or eleven degrees in Melbourne at right now
54:14
Speaker 1: three o'clock in the afternoon. What's the temp where you are? Oh?
54:18
Speaker 2: Good question. Don't have it on me right now, but
54:20
Speaker 2: it feels cold, probably like I'm sure it's in its twenties.
54:24
Speaker 2: Karatha trying to google it, Karfa Carafa. Let's how about
54:32
Speaker 2: you guess what do you reckon?
54:34
Speaker 1: I'm going to go twenty three.
54:35
Speaker 2: It's twenty seven, twenty seven, it's twenty sacket. What is
54:40
Speaker 2: wrong with me?
54:41
Speaker 1: What is wrong? Are you die in eight minutes. If
54:44
Speaker 1: you got to Melbourne Airport all right, well say goodbye
54:47
Speaker 1: a fair but thanks again, Sam, thank you