Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Interview Only w/ Lauren Pinkston - Can An Independent Break The GOP Stranglehold In Tennessee?

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Interview Only w/ Lauren Pinkston - Can An Independent Break The GOP Stranglehold In Tennessee? · The Chuck ToddCast

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Speaker 1: wonder if I have a bit of a Tennessee theme
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Speaker 1: going on. After the Big Lamar Alexander interview last week,
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Speaker 1: I was running as an independent for Governor Lauren Pinkston
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Speaker 1: and she joins me. Now, somebody I've met a couple
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Speaker 1: of times at some of these various events that we
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Speaker 1: both have been showing up at whether it's places where
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Speaker 1: independents are looking for a way to break through the
2:10
Speaker 1: process or I think the last time I saw you
2:13
Speaker 1: is what I call the place for recovering Republicans, where
2:19
Speaker 1: conservatives who are can't stomach Trump basically trying to take
2:24
Speaker 1: their movement back. And this is life as an independent candidate,
2:29
Speaker 1: isn't it.
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Thanks, that's right. And you know, each whether you're
2:33
Speaker 2: disaffected on the right or the left, there's a little
2:35
Speaker 2: bit of a difference in the conversation, for sure. But
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Speaker 2: I think because of the way that we've seen things
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Speaker 2: shifting over the last ten years, and you know this
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Speaker 2: as well as anybody, but to have a place in
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Speaker 2: this moment where there's this recalibration going on in politics
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Speaker 2: nationwide and for forty five percent of voters to identify
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Speaker 2: as independent compared to twenty seven percent on the right
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Speaker 2: and the left each, you know, that's a moment to
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Speaker 2: grasp for sure. And this was the year to to
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Speaker 2: stick my neck out there and at least give that
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Speaker 2: large largest block of voters representation.
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Speaker 1: Well, and look, I'm somebody who worships at the cliche
3:12
Speaker 1: of politics supports of VACUU, meaning you know, I don't
3:15
Speaker 1: buy this idea ever of one party rule, you know,
3:19
Speaker 1: and that and that there's always a folk crum. You
3:22
Speaker 1: just have to go find it. And I want to
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Speaker 1: quote Lamar Alexander to you. I just had him on
3:28
Speaker 1: this podcast talking about his memoir somebody I've known a
3:30
Speaker 1: long time, and you know, he talks about, you know,
3:33
Speaker 1: why he ran for governor way back when in the
3:35
Speaker 1: you know, he had a run twice. He lost the
3:37
Speaker 1: first time, one the second time. And at the time
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Speaker 1: he goes, you know, he thought the state needed competition
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Speaker 1: and there wasn't two party competition, which was true back then.
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Speaker 1: It was basically and here we are again, and he
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Speaker 1: lamented he is very concerned at the lack of two
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Speaker 1: party competition in the state. Thinks it's not a healthy sign.
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Speaker 1: Whether that means you bring the competition or somewhere else,
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Speaker 1: but there's it was intriguing to me to hear him
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Speaker 1: say that, and I'm wondering what voters say to you
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Speaker 1: as you travel the state of Tennessee.
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Speaker 2: Well, you know, and to quote him again at the
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Speaker 2: end of your interview with him, I enjoyed that conversation
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Speaker 2: so much. And he said, maybe it is time, you know,
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Speaker 2: maybe an independent will start to break through. And so
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Speaker 2: I think that there is this moment where people are
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Speaker 2: just so dissatisfied, there's this distaste in their mouth when
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Speaker 2: politics comes up. So and to be introduced to someone
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Speaker 2: who is a normal person, just having a normal conversation,
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Speaker 2: and they can feel safe and they can feel courageous
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Speaker 2: in stepping out and feel patriotic again. You know, for
4:46
Speaker 2: so many people, it's felt like our flag has been
4:48
Speaker 2: co opted by a type of one brand of politics,
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Speaker 2: and people are They do love their country, they do
4:55
Speaker 2: love their state, and they want to feel patriotic. And
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Speaker 2: my conversations have been so one. I'm having the time
5:01
Speaker 2: of my life. I don't know what that says about me,
5:03
Speaker 2: but this is by far the most rewarding, most exciting
5:06
Speaker 2: thing I've ever gotten to be a part of. And
5:07
Speaker 2: I've gotten to do some really fun things in my life.
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Speaker 2: So it's an honor.
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Speaker 1: Well, if you don't enjoy people, then don't do politics, right,
5:15
Speaker 1: you know, So, so how did you get here? Tell
5:19
Speaker 1: me why you are? This is? This is like choosing
5:24
Speaker 1: to climb Mount Everest. You know, it's noble. I'm impressed,
5:28
Speaker 1: but it's a pretty impossible task. Sure, well, I do
5:32
Speaker 1: nearly about not impossible. Improbable maybe the better way, you.
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Speaker 2: Know, and it is it's a new era where the
5:39
Speaker 2: things that used to have to be in place for
5:42
Speaker 2: you to reach people and for you to find people,
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Speaker 2: some of those barriers have been taken down. But I
5:46
Speaker 2: will say that I love nothing more than being underestimated,
5:49
Speaker 2: and I love nothing more than a challenge. So for
5:51
Speaker 2: most of my life I have spent my career in
5:55
Speaker 2: areas of injustice. I've spent fifteen years in global counter
5:58
Speaker 2: trafficking efforts around the world world, and have s enjoyed
6:02
Speaker 2: putting myself in places of darkness and frustration, trying to
6:07
Speaker 2: bridge you know, goodness in those areas. And I looked
6:10
Speaker 2: around several years ago and realized that my career was
6:13
Speaker 2: quibish shift in flexpurvis because of the greatest area of
6:17
Speaker 2: injustice that I saw was the electorate around me. The voters,
6:21
Speaker 2: my neighbors is feeling so defeated, so frustrated, and everybody's
6:25
Speaker 2: talking about how much they hate the way things are,
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Speaker 2: So why not why not be a part of making
6:30
Speaker 2: it something better for them?
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Speaker 1: Tell me how this happened in Tennessee look, this is
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Speaker 1: and you know Lamar notes it in his book, and
6:37
Speaker 1: it was certainly the Tennessee that I started covering in
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Speaker 1: the early nineties. What you know, it was the you
6:43
Speaker 1: started to see the shift where the Republican Party was
6:47
Speaker 1: sort of became the you know, essentially the slight lead dog, right.
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Speaker 1: You sort of saw it right around ninety four, Jim
6:54
Speaker 1: Sassar losing. You know, Jim Sasser wins that race, he
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Speaker 1: goes on probably to be the Senate that people don't
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Speaker 1: realize it's the only reason Dashell ended up the Senate
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Speaker 1: Democratic leader after Mitchell was because Sasser loses that race.
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Speaker 1: And it is we see this, but it was a
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Speaker 1: competitive two party state until it wasn't. It was, yes,
7:17
Speaker 1: Phil Bretson and Erin Ford. It doesn't feel like that
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Speaker 1: long ago that Phil Bretson was elected twice as governor.
7:23
Speaker 1: Harold Ford came within a nosehair of really of defeating
7:28
Speaker 1: Bob corpor and a Senate race in two thousand and six.
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Speaker 1: Now that's now twenty years. I get it. And Bretison's
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Speaker 1: last Senate race didn't go so hot. It wasn't a
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Speaker 1: close race. What shifted what.
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Speaker 2: Happened, well, I think we can easily look to twenty
7:43
Speaker 2: ten in the Supreme Court decision around Citizens United. I mean,
7:46
Speaker 2: it's an easy place to go to to just see
7:48
Speaker 2: where the money in politics has shifted. And then of
7:50
Speaker 2: course the rise of media in the way that new
7:52
Speaker 2: media has affected things, and I do think that the
7:54
Speaker 2: Republican Party has been a much better organizer in the
7:58
Speaker 2: new media space of pushing a very consistent message of
8:01
Speaker 2: who they are. And so, you know, there was there
8:04
Speaker 2: was a lot of frustration during the Obama years whether
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Speaker 2: or not the real story was told about his leadership.
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Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I grew up in a very conservative home,
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Speaker 2: and I think we've watched, you know, people who are
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Speaker 2: values centered individuals feel that I'm going to say this
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Speaker 2: as someone who is a Christian, a devout Christian faith,
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Speaker 2: and was raised to believe that if I voted for
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Speaker 2: a Democrat, that was a ticket straight to Hell.
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Speaker 1: I mean that you were raised that way, you felt
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Speaker 1: raised that way, or that was your community made that
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Speaker 1: feel made you feel that way.
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Speaker 2: I mean both. My mom shared a picture with me
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Speaker 2: recently of my you know picture when I was three
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Speaker 2: sitting in front of George Bush when senior, when he
8:47
Speaker 2: was elected, and you know, just the uh, the Republican nature.
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Speaker 2: In my home, there was concern over my aunt who
8:53
Speaker 2: voted for Bill Clinton. And I remember, you know, as
8:56
Speaker 2: a kid, asking, well she could possibly do that? And
8:59
Speaker 2: there was one dim pro out in my church, and
9:00
Speaker 2: every time you prayed, people were like, oh, well, I mean,
9:03
Speaker 2: I hope that God hears that because he's a Democrat.
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Speaker 1: You know.
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Speaker 2: So that was it was my culture, but it was
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Speaker 2: I mean, it is something that is very pervasive and
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Speaker 2: it does sink into you when you're a person of
9:12
Speaker 2: faith in that you do tie politics to faith, it
9:15
Speaker 2: becomes so intrinsic that it's hard to separate yourself from that.
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Speaker 1: I want to talk about this issue of that a
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Speaker 1: little bit, this sort of politicizing evangelical Christianity, because I
9:26
Speaker 1: did a special on this back in my meet the
9:28
Speaker 1: preass days. We did a special about sort of the
9:32
Speaker 1: rise of Christian nationalism and Tennessee. It was in Tennessee
9:36
Speaker 1: that there was a couple of Christian nationalist pastors who
9:40
Speaker 1: sat down with us to explain, you know what they're
9:43
Speaker 1: you know, why they why they woke this in and
9:47
Speaker 1: then speaking with Russell Moore, who's who's the editor in
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Speaker 1: chief of Christianity Today, And it's kind of really been
9:55
Speaker 1: very critical of many of today's evangelical leaders for sort
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Speaker 1: of putting politics over their faith.
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Speaker 2: Right.
10:03
Speaker 1: But the the sad conclusion I came to doing that
10:08
Speaker 1: special was these pastors just felt as if if they
10:13
Speaker 1: didn't shift, if they if they emphasized Christianity more than
10:18
Speaker 1: the politics, that they were going to lose people, they
10:21
Speaker 1: were going to lose the pews would be empty. And
10:24
Speaker 1: then in some ways this was a basically the congregants
10:27
Speaker 1: made this decision for them. You get that sense? Is
10:31
Speaker 1: that how you see it or how how many how
10:34
Speaker 1: you think why this real politicizing of the of the
10:37
Speaker 1: of the church happened in the South?
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Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's something that's always been a strategic
10:43
Speaker 2: move for a presidential candidate to pull in the event
10:46
Speaker 2: the evangelical, you know, right into their base. And and
10:49
Speaker 2: that's why we saw even as late as was at
10:52
Speaker 2: Eisenhower that put in God we trust on money. I mean,
10:54
Speaker 2: this was this was not this was not old history
10:57
Speaker 2: for us, right, So these ships.
11:00
Speaker 1: I always remind people it's Jimmy Carter that brought evangelicals
11:03
Speaker 1: into the political space first, and in fact, his candidacy
11:08
Speaker 1: was very popular and he created this cross partisan network
11:12
Speaker 1: because of his faith. Then of course that all he
11:15
Speaker 1: lost it all after four years, sure.
11:18
Speaker 2: And you know, and I think that that's why it
11:20
Speaker 2: was hard for him to govern, because his faith was
11:22
Speaker 2: so so pure and so such a huge part of
11:25
Speaker 2: who he was. He was preaching and teaching Bible classes
11:29
Speaker 2: until his death. And I love Christian Dumay's book Jesus
11:32
Speaker 2: and John Wayne, and just there's so much there that
11:34
Speaker 2: that my life intersects with. And yeah, I think that
11:38
Speaker 2: there's some of it that comes from the pulpit. I
11:40
Speaker 2: think it's something that comes from the congregants. But in
11:42
Speaker 2: many churches you find the American flag there, you know,
11:46
Speaker 2: in the church building, you know, And so our nationalism
11:50
Speaker 2: is tied with this message that God ordained the United
11:54
Speaker 2: States and that the reason that the United States has
11:56
Speaker 2: been so successful is because we're a Christian nation and that,
12:01
Speaker 2: you know, liberty and freedom are all tied to that.
12:06
Speaker 2: You've get a very different message in the Black church.
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Speaker 2: In the South. There's different frames for theology, and so
12:12
Speaker 2: you've got liberation theology that runs through the black churches
12:14
Speaker 2: in a very different way. But I'll say even there,
12:17
Speaker 2: you know, I can politic all day in a black church,
12:19
Speaker 2: and that's expected because politics is also intertwined there. But
12:23
Speaker 2: I hear from I hear from, you know, my black
12:26
Speaker 2: neighbors in Memphis, like, I'm so tired of people overlooking
12:29
Speaker 2: me because they assume that I'm going to vote like
12:31
Speaker 2: a Democrat because I'm a black woman, and nobody ever
12:33
Speaker 2: tries to earn my vote, and so on both sides
12:36
Speaker 2: of the fence, you have this moment where people are
12:38
Speaker 2: feeling disenfranchised and kind of out of touch with where
12:42
Speaker 2: things have gone.
12:44
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny I hear this argument about our
12:47
Speaker 1: founders and that no, no, no, no, we were a Christian nation.
12:49
Speaker 1: It's like if they were there there, you know, they
12:53
Speaker 1: left the Europe because for religious freedom, and they were
12:58
Speaker 1: you know, if if they believed what these folks want
13:02
Speaker 1: us to think, they believed it would have been embedded
13:04
Speaker 1: in our constitution. They specifically did not put it in.
13:08
Speaker 1: They went out of their way. It's like it is,
13:11
Speaker 1: it's very frustrating, this misinterpretation of history that you see.
13:16
Speaker 1: That's right with those that want to embed religion into
13:19
Speaker 1: the right.
13:19
Speaker 2: It's a huge misinterpretation, and it's a misinterpretation of the
13:23
Speaker 2: word liberty. I was in a governor's round table last
13:27
Speaker 2: night with one of my opponents who is running on
13:29
Speaker 2: liberty and less government, and I just think, man, we
13:32
Speaker 2: interpreted that so differently, because for me, liberty means I
13:34
Speaker 2: don't have to I don't have to bow down to
13:36
Speaker 2: a party structure that tells me what to say behind
13:39
Speaker 2: a microphone. And less government doesn't mean that I take
13:41
Speaker 2: away people's human rights and their religious freedom, you know.
13:45
Speaker 2: So we definitely are interpreting that very differently. And I've
13:49
Speaker 2: lived in a communist nation. I lived in a communist
13:51
Speaker 2: nation for five years and worked there.
13:53
Speaker 1: That tell me about it. Was in Southeast Asia. Where
13:55
Speaker 1: was we?
13:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, we lived in Laos, and so I was at
13:58
Speaker 2: a UN office on drugs and crime, the first anti
14:01
Speaker 2: trafficking bill that was passed with Parliament we were advising on.
14:05
Speaker 2: I just and I worked alongside people who had been
14:07
Speaker 2: persecuted for their faith. Every Christian that I knew there
14:10
Speaker 2: knew someone who had been in prison or killed or
14:14
Speaker 2: had their business burned down because of their faith. And
14:17
Speaker 2: so I often feel like you can miss me with
14:20
Speaker 2: the Christian persecution in the United States, because I've seen
14:24
Speaker 2: make sure.
14:25
Speaker 1: What real persecution looks like.
14:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right.
14:29
Speaker 1: You know. The biggest challenge for independent candidates is the
14:31
Speaker 1: fact that, to me, the message is the easy part,
14:36
Speaker 1: meaning you know why you want to run. You have
14:39
Speaker 1: to be consumed with the mechanics, right most, if you're
14:43
Speaker 1: a Democrat or a Republican, you don't have to worry
14:45
Speaker 1: about the mechanics of a race. You don't have to
14:47
Speaker 1: worry about how to find workers, how to find money,
14:50
Speaker 1: how to get on the ballot. And this becomes for
14:53
Speaker 1: independent candidates, it becomes almost half the battle, which unfortunately
14:58
Speaker 1: takes you away from what you really want to do,
15:00
Speaker 1: which is persuade. You know, talk about why you want
15:04
Speaker 1: to be governor and persuade folks. Tell me about the
15:07
Speaker 1: mechanical difficulties in Tennessee, just very Tennessee specific. What's it
15:12
Speaker 1: take to get on the ballot? And how hard is this?
15:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you're you're not wrong about that. It'd say
15:19
Speaker 2: ballot access is the easiest thing for us. This is
15:21
Speaker 2: going to blow your mind. But it takes twenty five
15:23
Speaker 2: signatures to get on the ballot.
15:24
Speaker 1: It's great, Well, good for Tennessee that they make it
15:26
Speaker 1: that easy. Now every state does that.
15:28
Speaker 2: It's great until there's a lot of people that are
15:30
Speaker 2: running as an independent, because literally anybody can get on
15:33
Speaker 2: the ballot. So you know, my challenge is ballot it
15:36
Speaker 2: would be about eleven people. And I should have changed
15:39
Speaker 2: my last name to make sure that I was you know,
15:41
Speaker 2: my last inside.
15:42
Speaker 1: How do they put it on the ballot? Do the
15:44
Speaker 1: major party candidates get up top and then independents are below?
15:47
Speaker 1: Is that how they do it?
15:48
Speaker 2: That's right? And my last name is Kingston, So I
15:51
Speaker 2: mean we're going to have to really flood the state
15:52
Speaker 2: with name recognition. So that's you know, we're I guess
15:55
Speaker 2: political science says you need seven touches. People need to
15:58
Speaker 2: interact with your name seven times to consider voting for you.
16:01
Speaker 2: I'm having to run off of the assumption that we
16:03
Speaker 2: need one meaningful interaction with me or my campaign, and
16:06
Speaker 2: so we've designed our outreach and our mobilization strategy around that.
16:11
Speaker 2: We can talk about that in a bit. But from
16:13
Speaker 2: the mechanics side, you're not wrong. It was I called
16:15
Speaker 2: people on the Republican side and the Democrat side who
16:18
Speaker 2: were longtime operatives and talked about this race, and they
16:21
Speaker 2: were interested, they were curious. They said, I think you've
16:23
Speaker 2: got a good chance, but I don't want to kill
16:25
Speaker 2: my business if I work with you. So there's that
16:29
Speaker 2: loyalty that's hard.
16:30
Speaker 1: This is true a lot of firms, you know, now
16:33
Speaker 1: on the Republican side, you have two purity tests. Right,
16:36
Speaker 1: if you work for somebody that Trump doesn't support, almost
16:40
Speaker 1: the equivalent of working for an independent.
16:42
Speaker 2: That's right, That's exactly right. But I mean, we've had
16:45
Speaker 2: over one hundred and twenty seven events now, we have
16:48
Speaker 2: across the state multiple times. I've got over thirty people
16:51
Speaker 2: on staff, and we have we're inching up to a
16:54
Speaker 2: quarter of a million dollars in our budget. You know
16:57
Speaker 2: that we've raised and so we're we're not doing terribly,
17:00
Speaker 2: and I think people are shocked at how much early
17:04
Speaker 2: traction we've had. And so I was expecting that no
17:08
Speaker 2: one would acknowledge our race on either side until after
17:10
Speaker 2: the primaries, because once you start, you know, saying my name,
17:14
Speaker 2: then you're giving you're giving me a lot of wind
17:18
Speaker 2: in our sales. But those attacks started last week already.
17:21
Speaker 2: So that's that's good news for my.
17:23
Speaker 1: Campaign realistically, for you to have a chance, the Democrats
17:27
Speaker 1: have to take an me yes, and what's the likelihood
17:34
Speaker 1: of that? What's the likely you can get a situation
17:37
Speaker 1: like Dan Osborne as in Nebraska, Right.
17:40
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I don't want to throw anybody under the bus,
17:42
Speaker 2: and I will always protect protect the innocent. But my
17:46
Speaker 2: competitor to the left has been getting a lot of
17:48
Speaker 2: phone calls from people in the state party asking her
17:51
Speaker 2: to step down, and I think that that's why those
17:53
Speaker 2: attacks have begun. So the Democrats know they don't have
17:56
Speaker 2: a chance in a state wide race. They have nineteen
17:58
Speaker 2: percent of voters in the state and Republicans only have
18:02
Speaker 2: thirty seven percent. Four percent of voters in Tennessee actually
18:05
Speaker 2: act as independent, so there's a small chance for that.
18:10
Speaker 2: I know she's getting a lot of pressure, but I'm
18:12
Speaker 2: not sure what she'll decide to do.
18:17
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Speaker 1: And yes, I too am a customer. There's an actual
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Speaker 1: primary in August. Is there anything for you to do
20:00
Speaker 1: for that primary day? I mean, obviously you're not on
20:02
Speaker 1: the ballot for anything. There's not a place for the
20:05
Speaker 1: independence on there. But what is you know, as a
20:10
Speaker 1: it's a rough time. I always think that's a rough
20:12
Speaker 1: time for an independent candidate, which is because all of
20:14
Speaker 1: a sudden, this is a massive amount of tention that
20:18
Speaker 1: the two major parties get sure becomes a tough period
20:21
Speaker 1: for you to break through.
20:22
Speaker 2: Well, I made some assumptions going into this race, and
20:26
Speaker 2: one assumption, you know, I'm running a few scenarios on
20:29
Speaker 2: the Republican side depending on how the primary goes.
20:31
Speaker 1: But there was is there an assumption that Marshall Blackburn's
20:36
Speaker 1: not going to be the Republican nominee.
20:37
Speaker 2: You know, it'll just be interesting. Tennessee has the lowest
20:40
Speaker 2: voter turnout in the entire nation, and about fourteen percent
20:42
Speaker 2: of people vote in primaries, and so it'll be interesting
20:46
Speaker 2: to see how how people come out to vote because
20:50
Speaker 2: there is a strong disinterest in having her as our
20:53
Speaker 2: next governor, and so.
20:57
Speaker 1: Wild. I mean, you know, I would just say, if
20:59
Speaker 1: you just look at the large environment. I'm not going
21:01
Speaker 1: to make this about her individually, but just the large environment.
21:04
Speaker 1: I know, I would, you know, be an incumbent whether
21:06
Speaker 1: you're left or right right, having been in Washington a
21:09
Speaker 1: long time, like these are not things that voters that
21:14
Speaker 1: are unhappy with our situation in politics, which is pretty
21:17
Speaker 1: much across the board right now. She does not check
21:21
Speaker 1: boxes for what voters supposedly are looking for at the moment.
21:24
Speaker 1: So yeah, it does make me a little curious to
21:28
Speaker 1: see how strong. You know, she might not be as
21:30
Speaker 1: strong as she thinks she is right, she's not.
21:33
Speaker 2: And I think that there's a lot of concern within
21:36
Speaker 2: the within the state GOP. And that's another reason why
21:40
Speaker 2: this was the race for me to jump into. And
21:41
Speaker 2: also it almost feels like someone wrote this documentary for us.
21:45
Speaker 2: Marsha Blackburn and my competitor to the left is Jerry Green,
21:49
Speaker 2: likely to win her primary women right, three white women
21:52
Speaker 2: with blonde hair and colors in their name. I said,
21:54
Speaker 2: this is just too good. So it's going to be
21:57
Speaker 2: it'll be a lot of fun.
21:58
Speaker 1: And you're right, Blackbird Pinkston, look at this green that's pretty.
22:02
Speaker 2: Uh great national story.
22:03
Speaker 1: Yeah there it is the Benetton and the colors of Benetton, Tennessee.
22:08
Speaker 2: Right anyway, so we know we can win with someone
22:10
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five thousand votes across the state. And
22:12
Speaker 2: that was a number that felt like, okay, if this
22:14
Speaker 2: is you know, really with almost five million voters that
22:17
Speaker 2: are registered and only fifteen percent of gen Z voted
22:20
Speaker 2: in the last election, there's there's a real opportunity here
22:24
Speaker 2: to grasp.
22:25
Speaker 1: All right, what's look, a good campaign has one or
22:31
Speaker 1: two big ideas that that stick. Right, it's it's it's
22:37
Speaker 1: sometimes unfair. I was interviewing a candidate recently where I
22:41
Speaker 1: could tell they really understood all facets at the job.
22:46
Speaker 1: And you wanted to say, this person, be careful, that
22:50
Speaker 1: is it. You know your people's eyes will glaze over. Unfortunately,
22:53
Speaker 1: that's not this. You're not applying for a job like
22:57
Speaker 1: letting people know that you understand every department. You know,
23:01
Speaker 1: it's a it's a different and and and I always
23:04
Speaker 1: feel for those cadences because I think they get very frustrated.
23:06
Speaker 1: But but, but but I have all this, But we've
23:09
Speaker 1: seen this, the most qualified person doesn't always win.
23:12
Speaker 2: That's right.
23:14
Speaker 1: What's your what's what do you? What do you hope?
23:16
Speaker 1: Are your big ideas that stick that's going to get
23:18
Speaker 1: this gen z vote to say, you know what, maybe
23:21
Speaker 1: she's worth coming out and voting or disaffected ours or
23:27
Speaker 1: diff disaffected these what what? What's the what's your pitch?
23:31
Speaker 2: Well, there's a couple of things that we want to
23:33
Speaker 2: make sure when people interact with us, they feel, they
23:35
Speaker 2: feel smarter, they feel more, you know, knowledgeable about things.
23:39
Speaker 2: And I love teaching. I love teaching on Instagram and
23:41
Speaker 2: short form content and on social media. That's something I've
23:44
Speaker 2: been doing for years, and so we love engaging people
23:46
Speaker 2: there and and I talk specifically to teachers. I actually
23:50
Speaker 2: started my career in the elementary classroom, and so reforming
23:53
Speaker 2: education and making the classroom a fun place to work
23:57
Speaker 2: and education a fun field that is respected again has
24:00
Speaker 2: been where we've seen a lot of traction and a
24:02
Speaker 2: lot of early support. So that and then just talkatures
24:06
Speaker 2: could be.
24:06
Speaker 1: A powerful constituencyproof They band together.
24:09
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and they are I mean they have they're talking
24:11
Speaker 2: to each other in their schools. They're inviting me for tours,
24:15
Speaker 2: and it's been that's been a huge core group for us.
24:18
Speaker 2: For sure.
24:20
Speaker 1: When I look at the state, it still feels like
24:23
Speaker 1: it's Tennessee and then Memphis. And I say this, it
24:30
Speaker 1: feels like as Tennessee in some ways. Look, Nashville's getting
24:34
Speaker 1: the super Bowl, right, Nashville has been promoted from mid
24:40
Speaker 1: size city to major city. Right, you get a super Bowl,
24:43
Speaker 1: You're you're major city now is and Memphis just feels neglected.
24:52
Speaker 1: And I've always feared that the reason it's neglected is
24:55
Speaker 1: due to politics. That basically the rest of the state
24:58
Speaker 1: views Memphis as this either African American city or Democratic city,
25:03
Speaker 1: and there's you know, in the last ten years, it's
25:06
Speaker 1: almost felt like a like a shift away from it. Look,
25:10
Speaker 1: I'll be honest. I was driving through the city recently,
25:13
Speaker 1: and I spent a lot of time there in the
25:15
Speaker 1: late nineties early aughts, and it was in bad shape.
25:19
Speaker 1: The city needs some help, and it doesn't look like
25:21
Speaker 1: the state's that interesting.
25:23
Speaker 2: You know, You're right, Nashville is like the oldest Alfa
25:26
Speaker 2: child that gets everything poured into them and gets all
25:29
Speaker 2: the accolades, and Knoxville's doing its thing as the middle child,
25:32
Speaker 2: being really good at sports and just staying quiet. And
25:34
Speaker 2: Chattanooga is living its best life as the youngest child
25:37
Speaker 2: of the state, just living.
25:38
Speaker 1: You're so proud about Chattanooga. I got a friend who's
25:40
Speaker 1: at the University of Swanee who daughters at Swanti. I
25:43
Speaker 1: just love Chattanooga.
25:44
Speaker 2: It's oh, it's something. It's just yeah, it's having the
25:48
Speaker 2: time of its life. And Memphis is definitely that that
25:51
Speaker 2: step child that just gets nothing and then is told
25:53
Speaker 2: to be grateful. Anyways, and we've watched it be kicked
25:56
Speaker 2: around with a National Guard and two hundred and twenty
25:58
Speaker 2: one million dollars federal tax dollars spent just on an
26:02
Speaker 2: hotel to fill it with thirteen different agencies for the year,
26:07
Speaker 2: you know, instead of investing in a five hundred police
26:12
Speaker 2: officer shortage in the metro area. So you know, that
26:16
Speaker 2: money could have been spent so much better. And you're right,
26:19
Speaker 2: they were chasing headlines. Crime was at a twenty year low,
26:21
Speaker 2: but the investments have not been made there. There's some
26:24
Speaker 2: huge things happening with XAI and SpaceX and it's a
26:28
Speaker 2: contentious It's a contentious topic for sure, but overnight XAI
26:34
Speaker 2: became the second largest taxpayer in the state compared in
26:38
Speaker 2: the city excuse me, compared to FedEx, So there will
26:41
Speaker 2: be a lot of money coming in. I just want
26:42
Speaker 2: to make sure that it's going to the right places,
26:44
Speaker 2: because there are great people doing amazing things all over
26:47
Speaker 2: the city, and it doesn't feel like it when you
26:49
Speaker 2: drive through it.
26:50
Speaker 1: No, it just feels a bit neglected. I'm mildly surprised
26:53
Speaker 1: FedEx hasn't been a little more robust in getting Nashville
26:59
Speaker 1: getting the cap able to pay a little bit more
27:01
Speaker 1: attention in the right ways.
27:02
Speaker 2: It's a healthcare hub. You know, You've got Saint Jude,
27:04
Speaker 2: You've got Lebonner, And when I talk to the CEOs
27:07
Speaker 2: there and their government specialists, you know they can't find
27:10
Speaker 2: people to come. The Saint Dude can't recruit medical professionals
27:13
Speaker 2: anymore because they can't get an H one B visa.
27:15
Speaker 2: And then Leabonnor can't get professionals to come because they
27:20
Speaker 2: hear it's Memphis, and they say, when we get people here,
27:21
Speaker 2: it's fine, but we can't even get them to come
27:23
Speaker 2: and visit because of the reputation that Memphis has now
27:26
Speaker 2: and so there's a there's a rebrand that's needed for sure.
27:30
Speaker 1: So you get elected governor than what I mean, it
27:34
Speaker 1: would be a huge deal, right, it would be a
27:37
Speaker 1: big deal if it happened. You're probably dealing with a
27:41
Speaker 1: very conservative legislature. How do you govern?
27:45
Speaker 2: There's going to have to be some shifts right in
27:47
Speaker 2: the way that we talk about these things. The governor's
27:50
Speaker 2: office in tendency is actually quite weak when it comes
27:52
Speaker 2: to our state constitution, and so some things that get
27:55
Speaker 2: put in the governor.
27:56
Speaker 1: Has a lot more strength in its own way. Is
27:59
Speaker 1: that still elected by the state legislature.
28:03
Speaker 2: The lieutenant governor is the speaker of the Senate. So
28:05
Speaker 2: that's yeah, that's how that works. So you know, there
28:08
Speaker 2: will be some levers to pool with just making sure
28:10
Speaker 2: that we're mapping and mapping data and taking calls to
28:13
Speaker 2: the Governor's office specifically, because.
28:16
Speaker 1: What we mean by mapping data explain that.
28:18
Speaker 2: So when people call in about a different about a
28:21
Speaker 2: specific issue our site. Our state constitution doesn't even allow
28:24
Speaker 2: for ballot initiatives, for ballot measures, and so we need
28:27
Speaker 2: to make sure that the calls that we're getting can
28:30
Speaker 2: be visualized if you're calling about an issue that we
28:33
Speaker 2: are making that open source data, you can see on
28:35
Speaker 2: a plot point of where people are on a particular issue.
28:38
Speaker 2: And I'm sending those reports to all thirty three Senators,
28:41
Speaker 2: all ninety nine representatives each week because I want to
28:44
Speaker 2: know that if you're sending a bill to my desk,
28:47
Speaker 2: get better. You know, if it's not backed up by
28:48
Speaker 2: the will of the people, you better have a good
28:50
Speaker 2: long list of reasons why that is. And I want
28:53
Speaker 2: to have the data to show the people why I am,
28:56
Speaker 2: why I'm vetoing or why I'm signing a bill. And
28:59
Speaker 2: so I've love to see some revisions to our constitution
29:02
Speaker 2: to allow for ballid initiatives. But that's one thing. You know,
29:05
Speaker 2: We're going to have to make sure that there's a
29:08
Speaker 2: much closer relationship with the press, and that's legacy media
29:12
Speaker 2: and new media. And I want to make sure that
29:14
Speaker 2: we're actually investing in chief information officers at the county
29:17
Speaker 2: level so that we have people who are bringing good
29:21
Speaker 2: governance and good government information to people in vertical format,
29:25
Speaker 2: you know, and the way that they receive it. Now
29:27
Speaker 2: that we're putting that power into the government again, because
29:30
Speaker 2: no one is sitting around trying to click through a
29:32
Speaker 2: county website to figure out when they're having a commission
29:36
Speaker 2: meeting and where the agenda is and when they show up,
29:38
Speaker 2: you know, So we've got to make that information more
29:42
Speaker 2: accessible in twenty twenty six.
29:43
Speaker 1: So clarity and sunshine laws. What is the state of
29:46
Speaker 1: sunshine laws in Tennessee.
29:48
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm going to have to dive deeper into that.
29:52
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I you know, it's
29:56
Speaker 1: there were good movements in the seventies and eighties in
29:58
Speaker 1: a lot of Southern states, and there's certainly a reasonable
30:01
Speaker 1: amount of where it's improved the ability. You know, Florida,
30:06
Speaker 1: for instance, has terrifics on time loops, and it's it's
30:11
Speaker 1: served as a pretty good check even as there's been
30:14
Speaker 1: sort of one party rule when it comes to sort
30:19
Speaker 1: of figuring out deciding to run for governor. Did you
30:23
Speaker 1: reach out to any former governors?
30:25
Speaker 2: I did. I'm still making some phone calls to former
30:28
Speaker 2: governors again.
30:28
Speaker 1: I want to responsive. Have they been without many names?
30:31
Speaker 1: If you don't want to new names?
30:32
Speaker 2: If you do great outside of Tennessee. Very responsive in Tennessee,
30:37
Speaker 2: a little trepidacious. I did meet with a formers.
30:41
Speaker 1: They look like they might be, you know, hurting their
30:43
Speaker 1: own party if they talk to you, whether it's a
30:45
Speaker 1: Phil Brettison, Bill Haslum, whatever.
30:47
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. I did meet with a former
30:49
Speaker 2: senator that's very beloved a couple of weeks ago. And
30:53
Speaker 2: there's a lot of my name circulating in Republican circles,
30:56
Speaker 2: I know, and people are hungry for this. A lot
30:59
Speaker 2: of their chiefs of staff and a lot of their
31:00
Speaker 2: strategists are very interested and are jumping on board with
31:05
Speaker 2: a campaign. The former GOP political director for the state
31:09
Speaker 2: as has taken a pretty big part in my campaign.
31:13
Speaker 2: And former Democrats that ran as Democrats and did really
31:16
Speaker 2: well Memphis and Nashville have taken a big part in
31:19
Speaker 2: my staff. But you know, I'm always towing the line
31:23
Speaker 2: between pushing for what we need right now and the
31:26
Speaker 2: names and the courage that we need from our former
31:30
Speaker 2: leaders in this moment, and understanding that people's businesses and
31:34
Speaker 2: their reputations are all tied and what decisions they make.
31:38
Speaker 2: And so we've been dancing though.
31:41
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting, and it's interesting to me sort of
31:44
Speaker 1: what you hinted at, and it tells me that if
31:47
Speaker 1: I look at it regionally, the East Tennessee Republicans were
31:51
Speaker 1: the dominant you so basically they were the pioneers of
31:55
Speaker 1: the modern Republican Party. They put the modern Republican Party
31:59
Speaker 1: in power. They have since been eased out of power
32:03
Speaker 1: inside the Republican Party. I mean Lamar, Corker, Frest, Fred Thompson.
32:09
Speaker 1: They basically almost all essentially East Tennessee, Eastern you know,
32:14
Speaker 1: that part of the state, and you know, and the
32:18
Speaker 1: Haslims as well. And now it definitely feels as if
32:21
Speaker 1: and you see this anywhere, right the first anytime a
32:25
Speaker 1: party breaks through, it's a moderate version of that party.
32:28
Speaker 1: And then the more entrenched they get, then the base
32:31
Speaker 1: flexes its muscles and that's usually when you sort of
32:35
Speaker 1: get over your skis right, and that's what the snap
32:37
Speaker 1: back happens. So it sounds like you think that there's
32:41
Speaker 1: a lot of the sort of more you know that
32:44
Speaker 1: the Republican part of the original pioneers of the eighties
32:50
Speaker 1: and nineties Republican Party. I do not want to I'm
32:53
Speaker 1: not implying Lamar is supporting you, you know, no, he
32:57
Speaker 1: is not, And there's no doubt he is out of
33:00
Speaker 1: in that way, he's out of politics. Sure, say yeaheah,
33:04
Speaker 1: go ahead.
33:05
Speaker 2: Well, if I am on the phone with one region
33:08
Speaker 2: of the state more than any, it's in the Knoxville
33:11
Speaker 2: area in East Tennessee for sure. Yeah. That's where people
33:14
Speaker 2: have been so engaged and they understand, they understand how
33:17
Speaker 2: things work. There's there's just such a deep history of
33:21
Speaker 2: good governance out of East Tennessee, and so they are
33:23
Speaker 2: the most concerned. For sure. Nashville's a lot of new
33:26
Speaker 2: folks that are more frustrated with the Democratic Party.
33:29
Speaker 1: So I guess yeah, no, I mean, I look, I'm
33:33
Speaker 1: familiar with Senator for frustrations, you know, and that he
33:37
Speaker 1: just just sort of walked away from politics because he
33:40
Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't feel like that there's you know,
33:43
Speaker 1: if science is here's a here's a world famous heart surgeon,
33:46
Speaker 1: and science is being rejected in parts of his party.
33:48
Speaker 1: And I think, look, I'm not I don't want to
33:50
Speaker 1: put words in his mouth, but I think that he's
33:52
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, I can't be effective in this party
33:55
Speaker 1: right now.
33:56
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, And I appreciate the contributions that he's continuing
33:59
Speaker 2: to make and conservation and in science. I think that's
34:01
Speaker 2: so important. I will continue to knock on doors, and
34:04
Speaker 2: I will continue to pester people. I have no problem
34:07
Speaker 2: doing that, and I know how to do that in
34:08
Speaker 2: my nice southern, uh southern white way. But I think
34:13
Speaker 2: at some point we're going to, especially after the primaries,
34:16
Speaker 2: have to look across the board and say, from bretz
34:18
Speaker 2: Inda Haslam to the Corker to Alexander to frist, you know,
34:21
Speaker 2: we're all going to have to come together and say,
34:23
Speaker 2: for the sake of our state and for the sake
34:27
Speaker 2: of our union, we're going to have to be courageous
34:29
Speaker 2: and make some make some bold statements about what it
34:32
Speaker 2: means to be a leader rather than to be party
34:35
Speaker 2: the party puppet.
34:36
Speaker 1: What do you think the biggest change your election could
34:40
Speaker 1: give to the state, Like, what's you know? In some
34:42
Speaker 1: ways you sometimes need a neon sign right to let
34:45
Speaker 1: people know, hey, changes here.
34:47
Speaker 2: What would that?
34:47
Speaker 1: What would that neon sign be for you?
34:49
Speaker 2: Well, it would be a shock to our legislature for sure,
34:52
Speaker 2: and it would be a brutal couple of years, I
34:54
Speaker 2: mean the first couple of years of me as leaders.
34:56
Speaker 1: Well, you could ask Jesse Ventura. Look, he struggled to
35:00
Speaker 1: to govern that state. He had literally one The House
35:04
Speaker 1: was I think Democrat, the Senate was Republican. And you
35:08
Speaker 1: know that is that that can happen to independence in
35:12
Speaker 1: that you almost have a duopoly of opposition.
35:16
Speaker 2: It'll be interesting, I think more than anything. I mean,
35:18
Speaker 2: I hope what will happen is that we will have
35:22
Speaker 2: a resurgence of people of courage and of character that
35:25
Speaker 2: are running for office. Again. I don't know that that
35:27
Speaker 2: will be able to happen within the leadership that we
35:30
Speaker 2: have in the Republican Party in the state right now.
35:32
Speaker 2: They kick sixteen moderates off of ballots in the last
35:35
Speaker 2: election for various reasons that were really wild. In many cases,
35:40
Speaker 2: hundreds have been kicked off of ballots this election because
35:43
Speaker 2: of bylaws around you know, donations to the party or whatnot.
35:47
Speaker 2: So it's an interesting time and our look, I think
35:51
Speaker 2: this is what people don't understand about Tennessee because we
35:54
Speaker 2: are one of the few states that you don't have
35:55
Speaker 2: to register with a party to get a voter ID,
35:58
Speaker 2: and so our party infrastructure is super weak. We may
36:02
Speaker 2: look like a strongly read state, but that is not
36:05
Speaker 2: the case because our parties, they're monthly meetings, don't have
36:09
Speaker 2: more than twenty thirty people there, maybe on either side,
36:12
Speaker 2: you know, so it's not like it's this engaged, well
36:15
Speaker 2: organized party. But as a friend told me when I
36:18
Speaker 2: jumped into this race, he said, Lauren, Republicans, he said,
36:21
Speaker 2: Democrats know how to get out and Republicans know how
36:23
Speaker 2: to get in line. And I have kept that really
36:26
Speaker 2: close and want to make sure that Republicans in this
36:29
Speaker 2: state who are upset with the way things are happening,
36:31
Speaker 2: have an on ramp to something different, because they're looking
36:33
Speaker 2: for an off ramp, and it's not going to be
36:36
Speaker 2: towards the Democratic Party.
36:37
Speaker 1: How would you can look I'm thinking about what your
36:40
Speaker 1: winning coalition would look like for you, and in my
36:42
Speaker 1: head it is somehow African Americans in Memphis and the
36:47
Speaker 1: East Tennessee sort of moderates and it you know, I
36:52
Speaker 1: can see the math equation, but that's easier said than done.
36:57
Speaker 1: How do you get that? How do you get that
36:58
Speaker 1: coalition to happen? How do you convince African Americans and
37:02
Speaker 1: Memphis that you know, in East Tennessee sort of chamber
37:07
Speaker 1: of commerce Republicans that your governorship will look out for
37:12
Speaker 1: both of them. You know, they've not always been in
37:15
Speaker 1: the same coalition together. They've never been in a coalition
37:17
Speaker 1: together before.
37:18
Speaker 2: Well, it's wild that that is happening, and you're naming
37:21
Speaker 2: it exactly. It's those it's those groups, and it's the
37:25
Speaker 2: progressives in Nashville who I was in a room with
37:27
Speaker 2: only Democratic candidates recently, and when I left that room,
37:30
Speaker 2: there was a lot of skepticism walking in. And when
37:32
Speaker 2: I left, the women in that room said, Okay, I
37:35
Speaker 2: get it because I can actually talk to my dad
37:37
Speaker 2: about you. And so, you know, winning the progressives in Nashville,
37:41
Speaker 2: winning the faith the groups of faith around the state,
37:45
Speaker 2: and rural communities in Tennessee have been huge for us.
37:49
Speaker 2: The rural areas are just such a strong place for
37:52
Speaker 2: us to have these conversations. And then Nashville has the
37:55
Speaker 2: largest Kurdish population outside of the Middle East, you know,
37:57
Speaker 2: so really getting in with groups of voters have kind
38:00
Speaker 2: of been on the fringes and not been very politically engaged,
38:03
Speaker 2: especially if they're second our third generation immigrants. At this point,
38:06
Speaker 2: they're ready to jump in, whereas their parents kind of
38:10
Speaker 2: felt like they were outsiders to the political space. But
38:12
Speaker 2: the second and third generation immigrants are there and they're
38:14
Speaker 2: ready and then we have a huge lu population and
38:17
Speaker 2: I happen to speak loud, so that helps too. So
38:20
Speaker 2: we're really looking at those grass tops leaders. And we've
38:24
Speaker 2: launched a video that We've invited everybody that wants to
38:27
Speaker 2: have ten or fifteen people over put your phones in
38:29
Speaker 2: a box for an hour, and we've produced a video
38:32
Speaker 2: that I'm there asking questions. It's called conscious Conversations, nothing abrasive.
38:38
Speaker 2: We're not asking Okay, what do you think about abortion? Right?
38:40
Speaker 2: It's just what's keeping you up at night. Here's the
38:43
Speaker 2: history of our state and why we are the state
38:45
Speaker 2: to turn the tide. I fully believe that based off
38:48
Speaker 2: of our history and who we are and are pastive
38:50
Speaker 2: victory and asking people to get involved. So that video
38:52
Speaker 2: is going to be huge for us, and just expanding
38:56
Speaker 2: my presence around the state. That's that meaningful touch with
38:59
Speaker 2: the campaign that I'm talking about.
39:08
Speaker 1: Can you succeed with that? Winning for sure? What does
39:12
Speaker 1: that look like to you?
39:14
Speaker 2: Keeping my family intact and my kids. I've got four
39:17
Speaker 2: kids and I want them to be proud of me.
39:20
Speaker 2: They're sixteen down to four. We just had three birthdays,
39:23
Speaker 2: so I'm I'm outing again, But yeah, all.
39:26
Speaker 1: Of our birthdays are spring in my world too as
39:30
Speaker 1: spring birthdays.
39:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a busy time. And so someone said,
39:38
Speaker 2: you know, Lauren, if you're walking out of the house
39:40
Speaker 2: to go to a political event and it looks like
39:41
Speaker 2: your husband's not going to vote for you, you don't go
39:43
Speaker 2: to that event. That's great advice. So there's a lot
39:47
Speaker 2: of ways to win. I think giving people again just
39:50
Speaker 2: an on ramp back to political engagement and to feel
39:54
Speaker 2: good at being in the public square again. We're going
39:57
Speaker 2: to need a strong coalition to push back against a
40:00
Speaker 2: a super majority in the state. If this is a
40:02
Speaker 2: loss in November, I'll at least have a whole long
40:05
Speaker 2: list of names that we can call on in ways
40:07
Speaker 2: that we can mobilize to resist the press of legislation
40:09
Speaker 2: that's coming through.
40:11
Speaker 1: Do you are you trying to build a third party?
40:15
Speaker 1: Are you just trying to get the two parties to
40:18
Speaker 1: reform themselves and not forget about independence.
40:22
Speaker 2: I think modern democracy really points to more than two options.
40:26
Speaker 2: And you know this as well, that our founding fathers
40:29
Speaker 2: warned against two parties, and his farewell addressed George Washington
40:33
Speaker 2: warned against two parties. And so there's always been this
40:36
Speaker 2: warning against it, but we continue to fall into it.
40:39
Speaker 2: The world is much more complex than a binary system,
40:42
Speaker 2: and some of the most thriving democracies in the world
40:44
Speaker 2: have four or five six parties, and so I think
40:47
Speaker 2: that we're going to have to get to that place.
40:49
Speaker 2: And the more that the next generation provels, the more
40:51
Speaker 2: they're going to understand that and be open to that.
40:54
Speaker 2: I mean, I see the Working Families Party really growing
40:56
Speaker 2: traction in parts of the country. Of course, I'm Ali
41:00
Speaker 2: with the Forward Party and endorsed by the Forward Party.
41:02
Speaker 2: We don't have ballid access in Tennessee, and I needed
41:05
Speaker 2: to just run this race as an independent instead of
41:07
Speaker 2: splitting the brand two ways. But I'm very excited about
41:10
Speaker 2: what's being built there, and I really have hope that
41:13
Speaker 2: we'll we'll have more than more than two parties. But regardless,
41:16
Speaker 2: even if we even if we fall back into a
41:20
Speaker 2: two party system, I think that it will become a
41:22
Speaker 2: more moderate two party system.
41:25
Speaker 1: Well, look, that's to me, you know. I always say
41:28
Speaker 1: Perot was very successful. Even though he didn't win in
41:31
Speaker 1: ninety two, it had certain impacts on governing that wouldn't
41:36
Speaker 1: happen had his candidacy not gotten some traction. Right before
41:41
Speaker 1: we started our interview, I was the one to inform
41:44
Speaker 1: you that we just had a dropout of arguably the
41:49
Speaker 1: most prominent independent candidate for governor in the country, Mike Dugan,
41:52
Speaker 1: former mayor of Detroit. He decided to drop out. Look
41:55
Speaker 1: as the time that you and I are talking, we're
41:57
Speaker 1: literally like the news broke about thirty minutes before I
42:01
Speaker 1: think our interview took place, So you know, we don't
42:03
Speaker 1: know the context. I can tell you it was he was,
42:07
Speaker 1: you know, it what what he was betting on a
42:09
Speaker 1: year ago inside of both parties didn't quite come to fruition.
42:13
Speaker 1: It wasn't divisive primaries, and you know, he was looking
42:16
Speaker 1: short of for this perfect little path, and it was
42:19
Speaker 1: it was certainly you know, I think in hindsight, if
42:23
Speaker 1: you really wanted to be governor, you probably should have
42:24
Speaker 1: run inside the Democratic Party. But he had a unique
42:26
Speaker 1: you know, he came in with a constituency. He was
42:28
Speaker 1: the mayor of the state's largest city. So it's a
42:31
Speaker 1: different situation. But I get the sense it's a bummer
42:35
Speaker 1: for you that you know here, you know, there was
42:36
Speaker 1: this sort of group of you independents that had been
42:39
Speaker 1: showing some strength. He's one of them, yourself, and Dan
42:43
Speaker 1: Osborne and Nebraska's Bodner in Montana now Kevin Kylie and
42:47
Speaker 1: the member of Congress who left left the GOP. It.
42:53
Speaker 1: I got the sense that it's you. You're a little disappointed,
42:57
Speaker 1: you know, it's.
42:57
Speaker 2: I have so much respect for Mike Digan and the
42:59
Speaker 2: thing that he's done in Detroit. My husband is actually
43:01
Speaker 2: from Flint, so we fly up for a game football
43:04
Speaker 2: game very often, and the things that have happened in
43:07
Speaker 2: Detroit are remarkable, and I have a lot of respect
43:10
Speaker 2: for him. He is in a different political environment than
43:14
Speaker 2: I am here and so.
43:15
Speaker 1: There's totally different.
43:16
Speaker 2: But you're right that there is this rise. I think
43:19
Speaker 2: this year is the greatest caliber of independent candidates I've
43:22
Speaker 2: ever seen in the last decade or two.
43:25
Speaker 1: Not the Star Wars you know, the joke is always, yeah,
43:27
Speaker 1: better candidates have a little Star Wars bar scene. It's
43:30
Speaker 1: my goodness, this is the least Star Wars bar scene
43:32
Speaker 1: a group of independents I brought. I think, you know,
43:34
Speaker 1: we leave that to the Libertarians and the Greens to
43:37
Speaker 1: fulfill the Star Wars part of things. But you're yes
43:40
Speaker 1: about this. It's very bad stream this year, and typically.
43:44
Speaker 2: You're right, there have been some cook, very very interesting candidates,
43:47
Speaker 2: but iras as.
43:49
Speaker 1: A favorite favorite of mine from Tennessee guy named John
43:51
Speaker 1: Jay Hooker, who is just a character. And if you
43:58
Speaker 1: this is a classic case, if you know, you know
44:00
Speaker 1: the fact that you just immediately laughed, not much more
44:03
Speaker 1: you get said, I don't know. I think some of
44:05
Speaker 1: the stories are not safe for work.
44:06
Speaker 2: But anyway, sometimes I do wonder if I'm too normal
44:09
Speaker 2: and too educated, like can I really do?
44:11
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you say that. I'm a little
44:13
Speaker 1: concerned about that as a been interviewing you, like are
44:16
Speaker 1: you you know, you know, in a weird way, is
44:19
Speaker 1: politics now about being unique and different and weird, not
44:25
Speaker 1: mainstream and normal? You know?
44:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But I did
44:28
Speaker 2: meet Seth this week, and you know that's running out
44:31
Speaker 2: in Montana and I am just a great guy. And
44:34
Speaker 2: some of these some of these leaders, there's going to
44:36
Speaker 2: be an announcement. Well I'll I'll keep quiet. But there's
44:40
Speaker 2: some really awesome people that have left their parties and
44:43
Speaker 2: I'm excited for the caliber of candidates that we're seeing
44:46
Speaker 2: this year of just principal people, and of course, like
44:49
Speaker 2: we've said, that aligns with the numbers of the electorate,
44:51
Speaker 2: and people deserve a choice, and regardless of whether you're
44:55
Speaker 2: running in a party structure or not, choices on the ballot,
44:57
Speaker 2: and we can celebrate that.
45:01
Speaker 1: Tell me about Nashville. I think a lot of us
45:03
Speaker 1: have thought the growth of Nashville was actually going to
45:08
Speaker 1: purple the state up a little bit, right, you know,
45:11
Speaker 1: there's so many and then you know, I've had a
45:12
Speaker 1: good friend of mine who's tenant East Tennessee native, who says,
45:16
Speaker 1: you know that the people move into Nashville are coming
45:20
Speaker 1: actually from from the Midwest, and there are a lot
45:23
Speaker 1: of former Republicans who are coming in and and are
45:27
Speaker 1: you know, sort of tax allergic. So they like the
45:29
Speaker 1: new income tax, and that's it, and that is that
45:31
Speaker 1: is brought and that Nashville isn't becoming Austin or Northern
45:35
Speaker 1: Virginia or Atlanta.
45:37
Speaker 2: You are, that person is exactly right. Nashville's not a
45:40
Speaker 2: voting city either. So if we're going to be clear,
45:43
Speaker 2: like the voter turnout in Memphis and in Nashville is
45:45
Speaker 2: really low compared to some of those surrounding suburban areas.
45:49
Speaker 2: But we of course have the T shirts like a
45:51
Speaker 2: lot of other states during the COVID era of don't
45:54
Speaker 2: California my Tennessee. And I just kept saying to people,
45:57
Speaker 2: you know, these are political these are people who identify
46:00
Speaker 2: as political refugees, not as not as Democrats, and so
46:04
Speaker 2: they are coming in many cases more Republican than what
46:09
Speaker 2: they're finding when they get here. And I had a
46:11
Speaker 2: neighbor call out. She reached out a couple of weeks ago.
46:13
Speaker 2: She said, Lauren, can you come over. I need to
46:15
Speaker 2: need to understand politics in Tennessee. I don't understand what's happening,
46:18
Speaker 2: she said. I came here from California. I thought I
46:20
Speaker 2: was moving to a really Republican place, and I know
46:24
Speaker 2: more Democrats here than I knew in California. And my
46:26
Speaker 2: neighbor is a blazing Democrat and they send their kids
46:29
Speaker 2: to a Christian school, and I cannot understand how you
46:31
Speaker 2: can be a Democrat and do this. And I just
46:33
Speaker 2: don't understand what's happening. And so I think that that
46:36
Speaker 2: was a misconception again of who we are as Tennessee
46:38
Speaker 2: and just staunchly anti establishment anyways, but also just very
46:44
Speaker 2: purple in our and our approach to voting purple well,
46:49
Speaker 2: because they haven't had an option. You know, the there
46:52
Speaker 2: haven't been strong Democrats that have run, and there have
46:55
Speaker 2: not been there's not been a strong independent to run.
46:57
Speaker 2: And so when you don't have anyone that puts their
46:59
Speaker 2: name out there and is willing to overcome the barriers
47:02
Speaker 2: and then and work work really hard. I quit all
47:05
Speaker 2: my jobs to do this full time. So you have
47:08
Speaker 2: to you have to have a candidate to vote for,
47:09
Speaker 2: but that it is who we are at our core.
47:14
Speaker 1: I think about a guy like Phil Brettison, who was
47:16
Speaker 1: the last sort of Democrat to show to show some electability.
47:20
Speaker 1: What is your sense of is his style or brand
47:26
Speaker 1: the right style or brand or is that outdated as well?
47:29
Speaker 1: Am I thinking? Is that the wrong way to think
47:31
Speaker 1: about this?
47:32
Speaker 2: You know that the Democratic Party has changed so much
47:35
Speaker 2: over the last few years too, that even the most
47:38
Speaker 2: staunch Democrats are frustrated with their party and and they're
47:42
Speaker 2: security tests on the other side that they feel like
47:44
Speaker 2: they can't win. And so to have so many very
47:47
Speaker 2: avid organizers from the Democratic Party joining my campaign tells
47:51
Speaker 2: me a lot that that they're feeling frustrated. I think,
47:55
Speaker 2: more than anything people are so hungry for authenticity, and
47:58
Speaker 2: our our chronic nature of being online has made us
48:03
Speaker 2: so desperate for real interactions with people that when you
48:07
Speaker 2: see someone who is comfortable just talking and not running
48:10
Speaker 2: off of a script, not repeating talking points, it's talking
48:13
Speaker 2: about things that involve the future, like data centers, like
48:17
Speaker 2: data being the new oil, like the realities of what
48:19
Speaker 2: we're facing going forward, it is refreshing. And so I
48:23
Speaker 2: do think that the time of the former Republicans and
48:26
Speaker 2: Democrats is over and we're going to need different leaders
48:29
Speaker 2: that are talking about issues that involve the future.
48:33
Speaker 1: Look Jesse Ventura one, when he got into the debates,
48:37
Speaker 1: it was a big important he had to you know,
48:41
Speaker 1: there was a bit of a threshold he had to meet,
48:43
Speaker 1: and he met it. And then once the debates happened,
48:45
Speaker 1: people saw him and like, oh, there's an alternatives at
48:48
Speaker 1: the two parties? Is there a is there? What are
48:53
Speaker 1: the impediments to you, sitt you know, getting into the
48:57
Speaker 1: debates do you expect there to be Do you think
48:58
Speaker 1: you're going to have a hard time getting Congresswoman Blackbird
49:01
Speaker 1: to participate in a debate that has you had it?
49:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's going to be. The first impediment
49:06
Speaker 2: would be having her agree to a debate. And I
49:10
Speaker 2: would say the same for John Rose if he, you know,
49:13
Speaker 2: Congressman Rose, if he decides to debate. I was in
49:17
Speaker 2: a debate last night with a more further right candidate
49:22
Speaker 2: on the Republican side who actually has a lot of
49:24
Speaker 2: support in rural Tennessey, a lot of support in ural Tennessee.
49:28
Speaker 2: So but you know, it was great to kind of
49:30
Speaker 2: see the comments after that and people saying I'm ninety
49:33
Speaker 2: nine percent sold after last night, or you know, I
49:36
Speaker 2: was kind of on the fence and I and I
49:38
Speaker 2: now that I can see you can hold your own
49:39
Speaker 2: against anyone, sign me up. So that's I would I love.
49:43
Speaker 1: If we see a Blackburn campaign in person much. Have
49:46
Speaker 1: you been in any events with her yet?
49:48
Speaker 2: Only at you know, Republican fundraisers or at a Lincoln
49:52
Speaker 2: dinner or a Reagan dinner. It's the only the only
49:55
Speaker 2: places that I've seen her in public. Well, not me personally,
49:59
Speaker 2: but that's.
50:00
Speaker 1: What I mean. You haven't been there, haven't been in
50:01
Speaker 1: any she doesn't come to these joint candidate events yet.
50:05
Speaker 2: I've met all the I have met all of my
50:07
Speaker 2: other competitors, in person except for her. I've met her
50:10
Speaker 2: before in person. I actually sang the national anthem for
50:12
Speaker 2: her in high school when I was class president.
50:15
Speaker 1: Is that right? That's funny? Yeah, sure, there's footage of
50:18
Speaker 1: it somewhere.
50:18
Speaker 2: Right, Oh my goodness, I hope not, but that would
50:21
Speaker 2: be that would be funny.
50:25
Speaker 1: Well, uh, look, I mean I think we we know
50:28
Speaker 1: that that that nobody goes into a a store and
50:33
Speaker 1: is satisfied when the two choices are small, extra small,
50:36
Speaker 1: and extra large. Which system?
50:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Yeah, we don't. I said, we're capitalist
50:42
Speaker 2: everywhere except for politics. You know, you would never be
50:45
Speaker 2: satisfied with just a coke or a doctor pepper on
50:48
Speaker 2: the on the shelf. So you have these conversations all
50:51
Speaker 2: the time, Chuck. So you know, as as you're having
50:53
Speaker 2: these conversations and you're do you see the same recalibration
50:57
Speaker 2: that I'm seeing?
50:59
Speaker 1: The look? You know, I go back, like I say,
51:01
Speaker 1: I worship at the altar of politics supports of vacuum,
51:04
Speaker 1: and you see it constantly. Right, you certainly see it
51:07
Speaker 1: more in governor's races, and you do incentive races, but
51:09
Speaker 1: that over time, no one party, no one party truly
51:14
Speaker 1: holds in big states, it happens in super small states.
51:17
Speaker 1: Idaho is on its forty first year excuse me, South
51:20
Speaker 1: Dakota forty one straight years where they've elected the same
51:23
Speaker 1: party as governor. You know, you've had an Idaho and
51:28
Speaker 1: an Oregon and a Washington who have certainly gone with
51:31
Speaker 1: these huge streaks. But most of the time you get
51:34
Speaker 1: a lot of Kansases and you get a lot of
51:36
Speaker 1: Massachusetts where there's like, oh, people, do nobody wants one
51:41
Speaker 1: party running away with control? So you know it does
51:45
Speaker 1: you know, if not? Now when for the independent movement?
51:49
Speaker 1: I do believe that, right, You've got a unique situation
51:52
Speaker 1: where three things are happening simultaneously. Both both parties are unpopular,
51:57
Speaker 1: the young, newest generation of voters are protesting the two
52:02
Speaker 1: parties by registering as independent. So it's sort of like
52:05
Speaker 1: there's plenty of it. It's never been the seeds of
52:10
Speaker 1: the soil has never been better, that's right, Right, Do
52:13
Speaker 1: you have the right fertilizer and you have enough irrigation,
52:18
Speaker 1: you know that's you know, it's it does feel as
52:21
Speaker 1: if the ingredients are there. You know, it's about capturing imagination.
52:25
Speaker 1: And you know, I was with a former presidential candidate
52:28
Speaker 1: the other day the other day who lamented how much
52:31
Speaker 1: performance matters, but then said, but it does. In fact,
52:37
Speaker 1: this person said, I think more candidate training has to
52:40
Speaker 1: be devoted to performance than to substance. And I can't
52:43
Speaker 1: believe I'm saying that right. It was just sort of
52:45
Speaker 1: like lamenting that that's the truth. But you know, it
52:49
Speaker 1: is going to be about what your your performance and
52:52
Speaker 1: ability to break through that will matter more than any
52:55
Speaker 1: good idea you might have. And that's just unfortunate how
52:59
Speaker 1: the system works.
53:00
Speaker 2: I know, and I love my brain. I mean, I
53:01
Speaker 2: rely on my brain. I'm a PhD.
53:03
Speaker 1: You know I've got a big brain up there.
53:05
Speaker 2: I mean, I love, I love to rely on that.
53:08
Speaker 2: But but you're right, and and this has been my
53:09
Speaker 2: critique of the academic space as well for years that
53:12
Speaker 2: if we if we just put out a lot of
53:13
Speaker 2: good ideas and they're not relevant to people, then it
53:15
Speaker 2: doesn't you know, it really doesn't matter. And so at
53:18
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's how do you connect
53:19
Speaker 2: with people? Do you make them feel sane, do you
53:21
Speaker 2: make them feel a part of something, and do you
53:23
Speaker 2: spark their imagination? I think that's we watched this with
53:27
Speaker 2: Momdanie in New York. And you know, I think there's
53:29
Speaker 2: there's a lot of hope for for this year. And
53:32
Speaker 2: you're right. I thought if there was ever a year
53:34
Speaker 2: that I could authentically serve as myself, I don't ever,
53:37
Speaker 2: I'm going to have a hard time seeing myself fully
53:41
Speaker 2: in either party on either side. I would align with
53:44
Speaker 2: the Forward Party if we had ballid access here in Tennessee.
53:47
Speaker 2: But I just if there was ever a time for
53:50
Speaker 2: us to do what it was this year. And man,
53:52
Speaker 2: there's there's some fun things happening.
53:54
Speaker 1: I've never met a voter who didn't say they thought independently.
53:58
Speaker 1: M hm. You know, no, he wants to believe that
54:01
Speaker 1: they are part of group think. Yeah, so so if
54:04
Speaker 1: you give them the opportunity, you know, it's possible. But
54:07
Speaker 1: it takes you know, this is this is not a
54:10
Speaker 1: muscle we use very often in American politics, so it
54:13
Speaker 1: can Actually.
54:15
Speaker 2: It's true, that's true, and I will I will work harder.
54:17
Speaker 1: Gosh, I think I will say this. I've, like I said,
54:20
Speaker 1: I've run into you, uh at multiple places where you
54:24
Speaker 1: know you are you are working harder than the average
54:28
Speaker 1: independent candidate. I've seen like you're clearly not just doing
54:31
Speaker 1: this as to say you did it.
54:33
Speaker 2: I really believe that people are going to die in
54:35
Speaker 2: this state if we don't take this seriously. And I
54:38
Speaker 2: look at my competitors and it feels very unserious. And
54:41
Speaker 2: we're talking about governing an entire state, you know, And
54:45
Speaker 2: I just I could not sleep at night imagining the
54:49
Speaker 2: reality of the future for my kids, the the reputation
54:53
Speaker 2: of the state that I love, just continuing this viral downwards.
54:58
Speaker 2: If we didn't take this serious. And the world is
55:01
Speaker 2: moving so fast now that we cannot sit around talking
55:05
Speaker 2: about culture wars and wasting packspayer money on lawsuits that
55:08
Speaker 2: are just so just so wasteful. I couldn't. I could
55:12
Speaker 2: not sleep at night not jumping in because I do
55:15
Speaker 2: believe that people will die if we don't address some
55:18
Speaker 2: of the issues that are facing us today, and that
55:21
Speaker 2: felt like a responsibility worth worth picking on.
55:24
Speaker 1: Well, we'll be watching. I appreciate the time you spend here,
55:28
Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll catch up again.
55:30
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me. Good to see you