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EP 10: Through A Father’s Eyes · Tony & Sarah Unscripted

0:09
Hi, everyone, and
0:10
welcome to this episode of Tony and Sarah Unscripted.
0:13
I was going to introduce our guest today, but I think Sarah should do it.
0:17
She has a little bit more of a connection with this wonderful human.
0:20
So, Sarah, take it away.
0:22
Thank you Tony.
0:23
Welcome everyone. Tony and Sarah, unscripted.
0:25
Excited for our episode today that I have with my husband Joe.
0:31
And so they happens to be our anniversary.
0:32
Yay, anniversary!
0:34
26 years married today.
0:37
It's a long time, but we're still together.
0:40
Yes. No, no. Just stay back.
0:42
And they're smiling and let him do what he wants with the mic.
0:45
Okay.
0:47
This is good. Yeah.
0:48
Thank you for being here, Joe.
0:51
So, Joe,
0:53
we're going to go easy on you, I promise, because you're a cool guy.
0:57
But we often talk about how, you know,
1:00
things can happen in our lives so suddenly.
1:02
That really shifts our journey.
1:04
And I was just wondering, and maybe you can talk a little bit about
1:06
if that's ever happened and what really sticks out for you.
1:10
Well, that would be Cameron and
1:15
his transition.
1:17
I mean, we've had a lot of issues prior to that, but it seemed to evolve,
1:23
culminated into into that transitioning.
1:28
So by far that has been the biggest thing that is hit me
1:33
when when Cameron came out,
1:36
how much did you know about the trans community?
1:39
Were you?
1:40
Nothing. Very, very little.
1:42
Probably Caitlyn Jenner.
1:45
Oh, God.
1:46
Everything that that that was probably my extent.
1:48
There was no reason for me to.
1:50
Yeah. So that's a good point.
1:52
I remember watching because I was so into watching I Am Jazz.
1:56
Yeah, yeah.
1:57
And he hated it.
1:58
But I remember at Cameron started watching it with me, and
2:01
I remember Joe saying to me, I should count.
2:05
Should they be watching that?
2:06
Because is this going to like put ideas into their head?
2:09
Because that's how little we knew. Damn it, Sarah.
2:13
So we both knew about transgender.
2:16
And that's how I met the two of you. Yes.
2:18
Was through that.
2:19
And I remember very distinctly that day
2:22
that you wouldn't even get on the camera with me.
2:26
But I was like, that was to me, you were there.
2:29
So that's all that mattered to me. And then I found out later
2:31
there was somebody else in the room that I didn't know.
2:33
But that's okay.
2:37
Jen. No.
2:38
Oh my God, I'm going to get Lin.
2:41
Lin. When I was just testing you.
2:44
So, you know, I've worked with families for 20 years at least, and a lot of times
2:50
and I'm asking this question because a lot of times parents
2:53
are not on the same journey
2:56
and at the same speed when it comes to
3:01
not just
3:01
accepting, but affirming their kids.
3:05
How was that for the two of you as far as were you at the same pace?
3:10
Were you a little bit?
3:12
Because I know because I know you and we do the show together,
3:15
and I know your story that you really jumped in.
3:19
You didn't just jump in for your son, but you jumped in for the whole community.
3:25
and I can't imagine.
3:27
And I'm just going to be this is unscripted.
3:30
So this just came to my head.
3:32
I can't imagine going from due to, due to do.
3:35
Here's our life and we live in, you know, wherever.
3:37
And we're having a good time.
3:38
And, you know, we've been married for this long to oh my God.
3:41
Now my wife is focusing on so much that I'm not part of
3:46
and maybe not even emotionally connected to.
3:48
So how was that for you?
3:50
How was that? It's still I.
3:53
We are not.
3:56
What you just said is absolutely perfect.
3:58
We are very different.
3:59
My only concern is Cameron and his benefit.
4:04
Well, welfare.
4:05
Whatever I need to do to take care of him, that is.
4:09
That is first, second, third, fourth.
4:11
There's nothing else.
4:12
Yeah. So I don't I support what Sarah does.
4:16
And we as a family have have accepted affirmed all that we can.
4:21
But we are definitely not on the same level
4:25
right as far as that and, and speed to get there.
4:28
Right.
4:28
But if we can just go back a little bit, I think why I
4:32
so when we, when we started this transition journey
4:35
with Cameron, we were definitely on different speeds, Joe and I.
4:38
But part of that is because this didn't come out of nowhere with Cameron.
4:43
Cameron was,
4:45
you know, in psych wards cutting himself.
4:49
We were dealing with severely depressed suicidal ideation, suicidal plans.
4:55
We had so much that we were dealing with
4:59
that when this came out that this was
5:04
the reality of what Cameron was going through.
5:08
I just went full force into how to help Cameron,
5:12
because this had been two, almost three years now,
5:15
because when he was 12 is when he started an eating disorder.
5:19
So once we knew what it was
5:23
and I knew how to help, I just went full force with that.
5:28
Whereas Joe
5:31
needed time. Correct.
5:33
Oh my god. Yeah.
5:34
To really process and I'll never forget and I don't
5:37
I think we are at a point right now where we're able to talk about things,
5:40
about that journey and about that specific day
5:44
that maybe at the time we wouldn't have said out loud.
5:48
But I think it's important that people here.
5:51
Our story.
5:52
But after Cameron said to me those words of I'm in the wrong body,
5:58
and I said that to Joe,
6:02
Joe said to me, you're breaking my heart.
6:05
And he cried, yeah. And.
6:09
He needed
6:10
time, a lot of time to process all of what that meant.
6:14
And I needed to just make sure that I took care of Cameron.
6:18
It's not that he didn't want to, but Joe knew that I was going to do that.
6:21
Joe knew I could do that.
6:22
And that's why I just my heart is, like, really filled right now
6:26
because the two of you, married for 26 years,
6:30
have the ability to honor each other's space like that.
6:35
That could have broken the marriage 100%.
6:37
Okay, but the two of you just.
6:39
And I've seen this two other things, too,
6:41
because I watched the two of you when you were together.
6:43
Because I think it's amazing.
6:44
But you honored Joe even though he was slow to come.
6:48
So what do you remember a time where you really.
6:52
I mean, I know you were struggling, but what made you did you have this
6:58
major shift one day that said, hey, listen, this is who my kid is.
7:03
I'm going to affirm them and accept it.
7:05
Like, did you have that?
7:06
So some people say they have this, you know, and no, there was none of that.
7:10
Yeah.
7:11
And, you know, it is still
7:16
and I don't want to jump to far ahead.
7:17
I don't know what you guys are going to be the whole story.
7:19
But it was there was no epiphany, there was no anything about it.
7:25
And even till today, this is so Thorin.
7:29
I mean, if you had said, what, ten years ago
7:32
or when we first got married, if we were ever talking about,
7:36
you know, one day having a transgender child, I wouldn't even I mean,
7:40
I wouldn't even know what that meant.
7:42
And then if you explained it to me, I would say, are you out of your mind?
7:44
Like, it wasn't. It was.
7:46
It wasn't even like, that's not even a thing in my
7:49
it was not a thing in my world.
7:51
So and even until today, we could talk about it very differently
7:55
now, there were times I couldn't even discuss it.
7:59
There are still times now where I don't even like scrolling back on my phone
8:03
to see old photos.
8:05
I just don't want that memory,
8:09
which is very different from from how Sarah feels, but I don't.
8:13
That, to me is something that that was lost and it's gone.
8:18
Right. And
8:20
we used
8:21
to say it was like a death and a death of a child.
8:24
And I'm not trying to
8:25
I know people out there have lost their child and that's horrible.
8:28
But we had a child that we thought was
8:32
going to go down this path and everything associated with that.
8:36
And then just like that,
8:39
not, you know, over time it radically changed.
8:42
So now this is our new reality.
8:45
But I want to say that you it's not like you didn't
8:48
use proper pronouns and use Cameron's chosen name.
8:52
You, you, because there's many parents and fathers and mothers that that refuse to.
8:58
You did all that you needed to do for Cameron, right?
9:02
And I always say for me, and
9:05
I think this is probably the same for you, but you could tell me if I'm wrong.
9:08
It's not.
9:08
The death of a child is the death of everything we thought.
9:12
The dreams. Yes. Right.
9:13
Would that that child would be right.
9:15
And those were all based upon what we thought. Right?
9:17
Right before your dreams and wishes.
9:20
Not Cameron's, but all the things of, you know, we
9:23
we even went into a wedding dress shop.
9:28
Oh, I know a couple of years ago.
9:30
And that, like, really was really hard for me.
9:33
I don't know why we went in there.
9:35
Oh, they was doing some jewelry thing. Yeah.
9:37
And it was really hard. It was really hard for me.
9:39
So there's times and it has gotten so much easier now.
9:42
I don't even really think about all of that stuff
9:45
because people look at Cameron as, as what is his future going to look like now?
9:49
So we forget about pre-transition and what that person and child's future
9:53
looked like to.
9:55
What's Cameron's future going to look like now,
9:57
and who's it going to be with and what's he going to do.
9:59
And, you know, because that's that's that's the reality of everything right
10:03
now. Yeah.
10:03
And there's so many times that trans people themselves and parents of trans
10:07
kids will say, you know,
10:10
like they separate that before we knew and then after we knew
10:15
that that was somebody that doesn't exist anymore,
10:18
which I always have to kind of like gently correct a little bit.
10:23
But that young person, up until Cameron said I was,
10:27
I was born in the wrong body or I'm in the wrong body is a part of his journey.
10:32
It's a part of who he is.
10:34
And so, like, I look back on myself and I used to say she was the one.
10:38
She was the one that was strong. She would know that was me.
10:41
It was still me, you know.
10:43
It was just a different part of me, of my life.
10:46
But I remember that the first year Guildford Pride, you got up on stage.
10:52
I'll never forget this, Jo.
10:53
I swear I was just like, what?
10:55
Because I knew you were struggling, but you got up on stage
10:57
and you said, I have a transgender son.
10:59
And I still brings tears to my eyes that how that had to be powerful.
11:04
It was powerful. Was it easy for you to do?
11:07
Yeah.
11:09
Not even alone.
11:10
It's again.
11:11
It's it's even.
11:14
I don't care for what I said, but.
11:16
No, don't. It's unscripted.
11:18
It's still so warranted.
11:20
Like when I sit down, there are times when I sit
11:22
and I think about it and I'm like, how was I?
11:25
Did this actually happen?
11:27
And I can't believe that this is our reality and it is,
11:31
and we will move forward with it.
11:33
I think the big thing is that I realized if I don't
11:37
when when I saw how Nick, Nicholas and Matthew
11:43
embraced it, it was it was helped to me.
11:46
And I realized that those were other two sons.
11:50
Yes. I'm sorry, two sons and their two older brothers.
11:54
And I realized that if, if, if they get on board with this
11:57
and Sarah's on board this obviously Kim is going through this, then I am
12:01
I am on the outside, I will lose, I will lose more than I already had.
12:06
So it's it wasn't really an option for me because family is important,
12:12
and I want to make sure that I do everything
12:14
as the father to provide for them and give them what they need.
12:18
So that was that, that that was a big help to see them so accepting of it.
12:24
I mean, again, eventually they came around to and I don't know
12:27
exactly how they feel to this day, but we went away.
12:31
We we have a good time.
12:32
It's it's it's the new norm now, I don't
12:34
I don't think about it every day like I used to.
12:36
It's just this is, this is our reality. So.
12:39
Yeah. And the boys,
12:43
Oh, no.
12:44
What I was going to say was that you and I did have her moments where
12:48
I remember the first week it was close to my birthday,
12:52
and and I remember saying to Joe,
12:55
I can't deal with your stuff on top of everything else
12:58
and go get yourself help and deal with this.
13:00
However, you could deal with it.
13:02
And he did.
13:02
And then at one time
13:05
throughout probably that year, I think that first year was the hardest.
13:09
I remember saying to him, you either get on board
13:12
or you do let you lose everything.
13:16
You would have lost me, you would have lost Cameron,
13:17
and he likely would have lost Matthew and Nicholas because
13:21
we were all where we needed to be at that time.
13:24
For Cameron,
13:26
Joe from the outside was
13:27
there but was very much struggling on the inside, right?
13:30
It's a big thing, like is a huge.
13:37
Thing to happen.
13:38
It's not I mean, it is enormous.
13:41
I can't even begin to explain how it is. It's and if you don't,
13:48
if you haven't gone through it, there's no way you could possibly understand
13:53
how hard it was to to to go through this whole process.
13:58
And we still are.
13:59
And then, you know, again, with all that happened,
14:02
you know, more recently, but but just, just this whole thing, we had no idea
14:06
that was coming, you know, this was this was still,
14:10
you know, dealing with everything that we were dealing with prior to.
14:13
And you just said something really powerful.
14:15
I don't know if you realized it, but but
14:18
but you said if you haven't gone through it.
14:21
You have no idea what it's like.
14:22
And that's what I say to people when they can't understand
14:26
or they try to understand. How can somebody be trans?
14:28
I can't get it through my head.
14:30
I can't imagine somebody being born one way and then feeling another way.
14:34
And I always say, well, don't set yourself up for failure.
14:38
I don't know what it's like to be cisgender.
14:39
I have no idea what it's like to be born in a body that matches my gender identity,
14:43
but I certainly honor people who are cis, you know? So.
14:47
So a lot of times
14:48
people will put that in their heads, like try to how can that happen?
14:52
How can that happen? I can't imagine it.
14:54
So I'm going to have a hard time accepting it.
14:57
So you were affirming.
14:59
So typically parents are accepting but not affirming right away.
15:02
You were affirming because you were calling Cameron
15:05
by the chosen name and pronoun.
15:06
But internal acceptance was is it?
15:10
Are you there now?
15:13
Yeah. Yeah.
15:15
You know, definitely.
15:16
I mean, because he's such a good kid.
15:20
He's.
15:20
No. He's amazing.
15:21
Yeah, I swear, but no, but but he is.
15:24
I mean,
15:26
it is now we're so far beyond all of that.
15:29
And we have all these new things that that we're dealing with that
15:33
it doesn't really it's it's like, again, this is our new normal.
15:38
So yeah.
15:39
And that, that other stuff you're dealing with, let me, let me just say like
15:44
I'm, I'm just like a friend of the family.
15:47
And it rocked my world.
15:50
I can't imagine what the two of you were going through when Cameron had,
15:53
you know, the brain bleed or whatever it was called.
15:56
Did that shift you in any way?
16:01
So in the hospital when he was in the hospital, and,
16:05
you know, with all the stuff in the and the gear and,
16:08
you know, you know, the tubes and the I mean, it was awful.
16:11
It was absolutely awful.
16:12
And that's when I, I think, I hate to say, but I, but I, I finally realized
16:18
that, you know, this little kid is like really struggling little kid.
16:21
I mean, I know he's like, yeah, of course he's in pint sized.
16:26
Yeah.
16:27
Right.
16:27
And and hooked up and unconscious and like, you know, there was nothing
16:32
there was no community.
16:33
It was very little communication.
16:35
At least at the beginning there was nothing.
16:36
And then, you know, we got more.
16:37
And I just realized how vulnerable he was and how much he needed us,
16:42
you know, to help him through this.
16:43
And we had no idea what it was going
16:45
to look like on the other side once he woke up right now for a while.
16:49
And then we had no idea what it was going to look like.
16:52
And then and then when he did wake up, that was a hole.
16:55
And they took the tube.
16:56
It was like, that was absolutely awful.
16:59
But that was for me anyway,
17:02
sadly, that it
17:03
took that long for me to realize how
17:07
how important he was and how much he meant to me.
17:12
So that that that for me in that hospital
17:15
bed on the side, that was a big that was a big one for me.
17:18
Yeah. I remember
17:21
one time a couple of years ago, maybe about a year and a half ago or something,
17:24
we were sitting out back in our old house and just talking, you and I.
17:27
And you were like, yeah, Cameron, he's a funny kid.
17:30
I like him. Yeah,
17:32
I know, you know, like, the more he got to know Cameron and yeah,
17:37
because you had to get to know Cameron because,
17:41
well, yeah.
17:42
Yeah.
17:44
And I think the reason why, particularly the,
17:47
the couple of years before Cameron fully came out to us,
17:52
he was trying to be okay with being female.
17:55
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
17:57
Yeah.
17:57
All these different things and maybe, you know where long nails
18:00
and maybe I'll dress a different way and maybe I'll use makeup.
18:03
And nothing felt right.
18:04
So we were just seeing this whole journey that I thought
18:06
was just the teenage journey and whatever.
18:09
So all of that changed drastically to cutting the hair short.
18:14
Dark, dark clothes, very heavy clothing, baggy clothing,
18:19
piercings, all this like tattoos, right?
18:23
All these things that we were like, what are you doing?
18:25
Who is this kid?
18:25
And so some kids
18:29
may not be different, but Cameron was,
18:32
And so we got to know him, right?
18:35
Which is the hardest part for me, I think.
18:38
And again, it's not like this now.
18:40
Yeah, but I was angry
18:43
because I felt like Cameron took away my other,
18:48
you know, and I had a tough time as the same person. So.
18:53
And I say anger, I don't really mean anger, but but I
18:57
but or a mild anger that, you know,
19:00
you're here now, but you took away what I used to have. Wow.
19:05
Yeah.
19:05
And that that's and anger.
19:08
Let me let me tell you something.
19:09
Anger is a fuel emotion. So you can't just be angry. Right.
19:11
So anger is caused by fear or sadness.
19:14
And I think your anger
19:17
by your story came from deep, deep sadness.
19:20
You know, not that you don't love your kid, but again, parents,
19:24
they hold that baby and they're like, oh my God, this is what I see for you.
19:28
And yeah. So wow.
19:30
And we also had the, you know, the two boys and the girl.
19:32
So yeah, we were having our third.
19:34
Everyone was like, oh my gosh, you think you're gonna have a little girl?
19:37
I don't know, I don't know when I wanted a little girl more than anything.
19:41
Yeah.
19:41
To Joe, you had two boys, so a little girl would be great.
19:44
But it was also came a lot with, like, nerves. Right.
19:46
Well, I know what to do with two boys.
19:48
I know that's easy, but. Yeah, but
19:51
that little girl
19:52
who was the epitome of a little girl,
19:55
tiny little thing and just nothing.
19:59
There was no signs.
20:02
All when Cameron was young at all.
20:05
Yeah. What?
20:08
What was to come?
20:09
Yeah. Wow.
20:11
Yeah, but he is an amazing human.
20:14
And his. You know, he.
20:16
I know that he has a big influence on a lot of younger kids.
20:19
And now he's trying to help pave easier path for others.
20:24
I mean, what's your thoughts on all of that?
20:26
What's your thoughts on Alex Inc and Gilford Pride and you know,
20:31
all this media stuff that they were doing.
20:35
And I'm a very private person I don't like I'm not out there.
20:39
I'm not like not you know listen Sarah can do whatever she wants.
20:45
Obviously that that that that's fine.
20:47
We know.
20:49
But I
20:51
and I went to the pride event and that was wonderful.
20:55
And people there, it's great event. Everything is wonderful.
20:58
And whatever Sarah means for Alex, you know we support it.
21:00
But the best bartender ever.
21:02
But go ahead all the events like that.
21:04
But I, I do wish that you know if I could
21:09
if I, if Cameron had to be the way he is and I couldn't change that, then
21:13
the one thing I would change is that all this other stuff would just be.
21:17
Yeah.
21:18
Because it's just it's just it's a lot.
21:20
It's just a lot.
21:21
But again, that's from
21:22
that's from somebody who's like, I'm not I'm not on any social media.
21:26
I don't I'm not political.
21:27
Like I don't do any of that I don't yeah.
21:30
So really what happened was your world was rocked twice at the same time.
21:35
You had a kid that was transitioning and then all of a sudden your norm of,
21:39
hey, you know, what do you want to have for dinner was, hey, you know what?
21:42
I have an event I got to go to tonight,
21:43
and I'm starting an organization, and I'm starting a pride.
21:46
And so a lot.
21:47
It was a lot at once.
21:49
Yeah. Do anything she does.
21:51
No, I know, yeah.
21:53
You know, and then it's just.
21:54
And it's just. Okay.
21:56
So anyway, that that would be the one thing that I would say that said,
22:00
I mean everything will run its course.
22:02
Whatever happens, happens.
22:03
Yeah.
22:04
We'll be there, you know, we'll figure figure it all out.
22:07
But well, you're very supportive.
22:08
You're you're at every event, you know, I mean you help out in Gilford Pride,
22:12
you're there. And you know what I'm saying?
22:14
I mean this, you know,
22:15
you're hearing some of the things that he deals with internally.
22:18
Yeah. From the outside.
22:19
Joe's being there from the beginning of
22:21
of supporting of everything that Cameron needed along the way.
22:24
Yeah. Stopped it.
22:26
So what do you what do you do?
22:27
The two of you, you know, because a lot's have changed in the marriage.
22:30
You know, especially that you're involved in a lot of stuff.
22:33
Do you find time to hang out and do things together?
22:37
We play pickleball.
22:38
Oh, that's right, pickleball beside him because he's very, very competitive.
22:43
Is he very aggressive?
22:43
He looks like an aggressive pickle ball player.
22:46
Yeah, this is probably silly, but we like a lot of the same TV shows.
22:51
Oh, okay.
22:53
Name one, name one.
22:55
And it can't be The Waltons because that's mine.
22:57
Okay.
22:59
All right, we get. You didn't watch the lot.
23:00
Oh, I didn't listen to that episode.
23:02
No, sorry.
23:04
Your friends and neighbors, neighbors are watching right now.
23:06
Yeah.
23:07
We also watched the entire season of Downton Abbey.
23:10
Really? Oh, he.
23:12
I watched it, and then I got him into watching it.
23:15
Yeah, and he loved it like we would.
23:17
He can't.
23:19
We talked down to get home and it was just so we have the greatest Tony.
23:23
We live a very simple life.
23:25
Yeah, I do live a simple life.
23:27
We find enjoyment and just being a lot.
23:29
Being with the family.
23:30
Our family.
23:31
You're very family.
23:32
I love that, I love that. Yeah.
23:34
And then just watch TV together.
23:36
We'll go to movies we're trying to read.
23:38
But he's not doing a good job of it.
23:40
So I am ready. Return the phone
23:43
and understand it, I can't.
23:45
What book?
23:46
We can plug a book. Oh, yeah.
23:48
I hate reading to listen.
23:49
I wrote three books, I hate reading, I hate reading, mind,
23:52
I think goes in a thousand different places.
23:53
That's what happened.
23:55
Perfectly.
23:55
I feel like I should read because people do it.
23:59
It's probably good for you.
24:00
Less less time on your on your device business and I.
24:04
I hate every minute, but I find myself just flicking forward
24:07
to see how many more pages to the end of the chapter.
24:09
Oh my God, I do the same thing.
24:12
No bullshit.
24:13
Oh, sorry.
24:14
Yeah, I'll be like Joe, that's baloney.
24:16
I we made this deal that I said, okay, Joe, we really need to.
24:20
I need to stop being on my phone before we go to bed
24:22
because I think it was affecting my sleep.
24:24
So I said, let's start reading before we go to bed.
24:26
He was like, okay, so he got a book off Amazon.
24:29
And then I was already reading a book.
24:30
So I get into bed at like nine, nine, 15 and I'll read.
24:34
I'm like, Where's Joe?
24:36
Because no social media in bed before.
24:38
So he's sitting out on the couch
24:41
so he can be on social media, keep looking at the bedroom light on.
24:44
I'm freaking up.
24:48
I was like, oh, that's so funny.
24:51
That's so funny.
24:52
Anyway, I'm not a reader.
24:54
We just I'm not a greater either.
24:57
I there are I, there are very few families that have been through
25:00
what we have been through.
25:01
I don't think I ever talked about and I won't talk about it now,
25:04
but like things that make us went through when he was born,
25:06
he was born with his organs outside of his body.
25:08
Oh my God.
25:09
As a baby, when you go into
25:13
a horrible car accident and we almost lost Cameron in a not, not even a year ago.
25:18
And then on top of that, one of the children transitioning
25:22
and then man
25:25
and then everything with that it's like it's you know it's it's not just.
25:29
Yeah, yeah. It's like it's keep coming.
25:31
They do.
25:32
But I remember looking at Joe, particularly
25:35
when Cameron was in the hospital, and we would look at each other for weeks
25:40
after this happened to Cameron, we would say, the fuck happened, right?
25:46
Like, we couldn't, like, this really happened.
25:48
And I and and I know we have to finish soon, but I remember Joe felt like this.
25:54
This very much.
25:56
This very much is our relationship.
25:59
Like I've always taken front with the children.
26:01
Yeah.
26:02
And I did so with Cameron, with everything that Cameron had.
26:05
And I did so when with Cameron recently.
26:08
And Joe was like, I don't know what to do.
26:11
And so what he did was he would take care of, take care of me.
26:15
So when I was sleeping in the hospital all the time
26:17
and I'd come home, he'd have things ready for me.
26:19
He'd have taken care of the caretaker. That's what I said.
26:21
That's that's so good.
26:23
I said to him.
26:24
I'm like, I know what that is amazing.
26:26
I said, you take care of the caretaker.
26:28
And that's how we did it, and that's how we got through it.
26:30
Yeah. And teamwork.
26:32
Yeah.
26:32
And so, you know, so we've been through a lot.
26:35
We're still here together 26 years later.
26:37
We still have lots of laughs together.
26:40
We still have a lot to go through with all of our children.
26:42
And that's just that's what you sign up for when you become parents.
26:45
Yeah. Yeah.
26:47
You know, listen, I just I love the two of you.
26:49
I, I just wish if I ever meet somebody
26:51
that I have a relationship like the two of you do.
26:52
Because really, like, you really stand beside each other.
26:55
Even in really, I mean, all three kids, you almost.
26:58
I mean, that's another episode.
27:01
Yeah, right. But, Joe, thank you for being on the show.
27:04
I hope we didn't like, you know, kill you too much here.
27:08
You know, you were. You were good. You were good.
27:10
Listen, everybody, thank you so much for tuning in.
27:13
We'll see you next