Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / MOM "ALL DOLLED UP" TAKING SELFIES, TOT-SON, 3, DROWNS, SUES WATER PARK

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MOM "ALL DOLLED UP" TAKING SELFIES, TOT-SON, 3, DROWNS, SUES WATER PARK · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. According to witnesses, Mommy is
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Speaker 1: all dolled up, taking countless selfies and singing into her
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Speaker 1: iPhone while her top son, just three years old, drowns,
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Speaker 1: and tonight she's suing the water park. Good evening, I'm
0:24
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
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Speaker 1: with us. The water park just got sued. But according
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Speaker 1: to witnesses, Mommy was in a completely different area, left
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Speaker 1: her son alone for over an hour while she took
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Speaker 1: selfies and sang into her iPhone. I never thought about
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Speaker 1: putting on a mouthful of red lipstick to go to
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Speaker 1: the water park with the twins, but to each her own.
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Speaker 1: Joining us an all star panel to make sense of
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Speaker 1: what we are hearing right now, this is what we
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Speaker 1: understand as to how the day started.
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Speaker 2: It's a beautiful Mother's Day weekend when Jessica Weaver and
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Speaker 2: her three year old son Anthony arrive at El Paso's
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Speaker 2: Camp Cohen water Park. The little boy is playing in
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Speaker 2: a four feet deep section of the pool while his
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Speaker 2: mother is lying out in the sun. Jessica entertains herself
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Speaker 2: with her phone while Anthony is seen eating chips and
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Speaker 2: spitting them out in the water as he plays. His
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Speaker 2: mother doesn't seem to notice or care as other parents
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Speaker 2: get frustrated at the disgusting addition to the water.
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Speaker 1: Joining me and All Star panel straight out to Elaine
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Speaker 1: Aadiaz investigative reporter, Alaine, thank you for being with us. Okay, So,
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Speaker 1: the first sign of trouble was when all the other
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Speaker 1: moms see the little three year old spitting his food
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Speaker 1: back into the water.
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Speaker 3: Right.
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Speaker 4: In fact, one mother actually called the police and reported this,
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Speaker 4: this is not something you want to endure after spending
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Speaker 4: all this money to go into a water park have
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Speaker 4: a good time, you have an expectation of clean water.
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Speaker 1: You know, although when you know there are a bunch
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Speaker 1: of children in the water, I mean aligne. They all
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Speaker 1: tete in the pool. So I'm not sure what potato
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Speaker 1: chips spit back in the water, how that's going to
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Speaker 1: change anything. But it's very overt that the child is there.
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Speaker 1: It's not the child's fault. And how long did that go?
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Speaker 5: Well, go ahead, I mean, I think that's a good example.
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Speaker 4: That his mother was not monitoring him, right, Because yes,
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Speaker 4: it is a huge water park, has a capacity of
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Speaker 4: you know, hosting fourteen hundred people, and so you know,
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Speaker 4: kids are having a good time, But where was Jessica Weaver,
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Speaker 4: the boy's mother, while this is happening, And so you know,
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Speaker 4: he's out there plane and she's on her phone the
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Speaker 4: entire time, according to witnesses.
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Speaker 1: You know align On Idias joining us high profile investigative
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Speaker 1: reporter Aligne. When the children, my twins were taughts, I
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Speaker 1: remember specifically being at Disney and I think they have
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Speaker 1: something called typhoon, lagoon something like that, and every X
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Speaker 1: number of seconds waves come out. They actually make waves,
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Speaker 1: and I kept telling them no, no, no, no, you
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Speaker 1: can't go there. They wanted to get in so badly.
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Speaker 1: I was a nervous wreck watching the trying to watch
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Speaker 1: two at the same time when those waves would come.
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Speaker 1: The thought of them being alone in the water, I
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Speaker 1: mean to Karen started joining me, our renowned psychologists joining
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Speaker 1: us from the Manhattan Jurisdiction, TV radio trauma expert. I
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Speaker 1: guess that's a personal fear because I had a water
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Speaker 1: accident as a young girl and almost drowned. That said,
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Speaker 1: don't we as humans have an innate fear of the
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Speaker 1: water where we're kind of on our guard.
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Speaker 6: Well, it's not natural for us to just dive in
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Speaker 6: the water. And usually when you're very young, unlike what
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Speaker 6: happened to you, Nancy, you wind up taking away that
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Speaker 6: fear goes away. You learn how to slim or be
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Speaker 6: in the water, to do something that keeps you alive. However,
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Speaker 6: in this situation, we're talking about a three year old
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Speaker 6: and a parent that's not being vigilant, and that goes
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Speaker 6: against that innate desire to protect your child and make
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Speaker 6: sure they're not.
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Speaker 5: Going to be in danger.
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Speaker 1: You know, we're learning a lot about what witnesses are saying,
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Speaker 1: but listen to this.
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Speaker 7: The fun sounds of children playing at Camp Cohen water
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Speaker 7: Park is interrupted by lifeguard's blowing whistles telling everyone to
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Speaker 7: get out of the pool. An unconscious boy not wearing
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Speaker 7: a life jacket is pulled out of a four foot
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Speaker 7: deep section of water. Multiple signs at Camp Cohen state
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Speaker 7: that children six and younger must be directly attended by
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Speaker 7: a swimming adult at all times, and must be supervised
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Speaker 7: by an adult within arms reach. Parents gather around as guards,
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Speaker 7: but again life saving measures, but the victim's parents aren't found.
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Speaker 1: You know another thing. Eric Fattus joining me, criminal defense attorney,
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Speaker 1: civil litigator founding partner Varner fattest Elite Legal. Eric, you
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Speaker 1: know you can't judge a book by its cover. Not judging,
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Speaker 1: don't care. I have seen defendants that are gorgeous and beautiful.
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Speaker 1: I've seen them looking like they have just rolled out
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Speaker 1: from under a bridge or just rolled out of bed.
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Speaker 1: I've seen all sorts of defendants, but that is certainly
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Speaker 1: a look for the water park. A mouthful of red lipstick,
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Speaker 1: the long fake nails, the face full of makeup, the
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Speaker 1: sunglasses back on the hair. I'm not going to refer
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Speaker 1: to her declotage. That's none of my business. But Eric,
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Speaker 1: it doesn't look like she ever intended to get in
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Speaker 1: the water.
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Speaker 8: Well, you know, in looking at her appearance, you know
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Speaker 8: that could just mean that she likes to be presentable
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Speaker 8: when she goes out. Look, she's a woman in her thirties,
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Speaker 8: she's a single mother. She was just going to get
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Speaker 8: a reprieve of being a single mother by entrusting the
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Speaker 8: care of her child to this amusement park. And then
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Speaker 8: lo and behold, here we are. I think there's another
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Speaker 8: story here.
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Speaker 1: Eric, question, do you have children?
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Speaker 9: I do not?
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Speaker 10: Uh?
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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, because what you just said is completely crazy.
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Speaker 1: You just said taking your child to a water park
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Speaker 1: is a reprieve for her? Hl n No, uh huh.
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Speaker 1: I've never been more freaked out in my life than
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Speaker 1: when I have the children at a water park. Not now,
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Speaker 1: but when they were this age. One time I dove
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Speaker 1: into the water while the twins were with the swimming instructure.
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Speaker 1: The instructor had John David Lucy's screen. Mommy, I was
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Speaker 1: fully dressed. I just got off h ol Anthropete's say
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Speaker 1: straight in choose the works. What do you mean taking
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Speaker 1: your child to a water park is a reprieve for mommy.
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Speaker 1: I've never been so jacked up in my life. I
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Speaker 1: might as well have been trying to triple homicide. Then
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Speaker 1: seeing those two in the water and it's my duty
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Speaker 1: to watch them. You think I trust some sixteen year
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Speaker 1: old boy to save my child? No, what are you
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Speaker 1: talking about?
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Speaker 11: Man?
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Speaker 8: You know, getting a break from single mother does not
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Speaker 8: mean that that you just completely ignore the child's well
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Speaker 8: being in safety.
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Speaker 12: That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is every
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Speaker 12: single mother every year. It is entitled what.
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Speaker 1: Are you saying getting a break from being a mom
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Speaker 1: at a water park?
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Speaker 8: I'm saying that everyone is entitled to a little breather
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Speaker 8: here and there, and a common activity would be to
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Speaker 8: take your child to some amusement facility like this, and
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Speaker 8: that's not unreasonable to me.
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Speaker 1: Eric, you know you're not gonna get away from saying
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Speaker 1: this was a reprieve for mommy, But I'm gonna give
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Speaker 1: you a moment to regroup and gather your thoughts. Joining me,
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Speaker 1: Doctor Tom Griffiths joining us from State College in Pennsylvania,
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Speaker 1: Drowning Expert, President, founder Aquatic Safety Research Group, co host
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Speaker 1: of The Drowning Files. Okay, that just scared the crap
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Speaker 1: out of me, The Drowning Files, Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Vision
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Speaker 1: app author of Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Chronicles, Safer Beaches, Better Beaches,
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Speaker 1: and the complete swimming pool Reference. It goes on and on,
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Speaker 1: Doctor Tom Griffith, thank you for being with us. Can
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Speaker 1: you understand what Eric Fattis just said? Because if he
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Speaker 1: says that in front of the civil jury, they're gonna
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Speaker 1: laugh him straight out of the courtroom. Mommy had a reprieve,
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Speaker 1: got a break from being a single mom by dumping
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Speaker 1: her child at a water park and then singing into
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Speaker 1: the cell phone and taking selfies. Uh huh.
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Speaker 13: Unfortunately, Eric is right in some ways that's the biggest
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Speaker 13: fear of lifeguards and water park managers. Parents come to
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Speaker 13: the facility assuming that the lifeguards are perfect and they
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Speaker 13: are going to guarantee patron safety. But lifeguards, no matter
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Speaker 13: how well trained they are, no matter how vigilant they are,
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Speaker 13: they can't watch every child all the time. They can
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Speaker 13: only watch one child at a time. So in this case,
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Speaker 13: you're using human beings to watch other human beings, and
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Speaker 13: this woman was not watching apparently based upon eyewitness accounts.
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Speaker 13: And the lifeguards are looking, but sometimes they're not seeing.
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Speaker 13: Even the best trains lifeguards, we wouldn't be here today
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Speaker 13: if the child was in a properly fitting coast Guard
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Speaker 13: a proof life jackets. We've never found a single child
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Speaker 13: drowning in a water park who is wearing a properly
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Speaker 13: fitting coast Guard approved life jacket.
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Speaker 1: No are Tom Griffins. I know you've written all these
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Speaker 1: books about swimming, but I think that's total bas to
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Speaker 1: say that people go into a water park assuming they
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Speaker 1: don't have responsibility for their own three year old child.
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Speaker 13: They parents subconsciously rely upon the lifeguards. Not all parents,
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Speaker 13: many parents are great. In fact, most parents are great.
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Speaker 13: But when you see these professionally dressed and very active
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Speaker 13: lifeguards pointing and blowing their whistles, you're assume that you
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Speaker 13: have this layer of protection that's impenetrable, and it's not.
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Speaker 13: No one's perfect. Whenever you have human beings watching other
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Speaker 13: human beings, we're gonna miss some. But most parents are good,
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Speaker 13: vigilant parents like you certainly were with your children. But
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Speaker 13: not everyone is like that. And so Eric does speak
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Speaker 13: or address some of those adults.
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Speaker 1: Okay, well we'll see if jury agrees with doctor Tom
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Speaker 1: Griffiths and Eric fattest. I will say this Fattest, and
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Speaker 1: just because it is done doesn't mean it should be done.
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Speaker 1: And I go uh with the twins to our community pool.
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Speaker 1: I see a whole string of drunk moms. Now I
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Speaker 1: don't even see any dads anywhere. I don't know where
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Speaker 1: they are, but I see a string of drunk moms
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Speaker 1: almost asleep getting a sun tan. I guess I don't
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Speaker 1: know the sun causes cancer. But that said, and all
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Speaker 1: the children are in the pool. I mean, I feel
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Speaker 1: like I have to watch them. But just because they
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Speaker 1: do that doesn't mean it's right.
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Speaker 8: It doesn't, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's criminal either.
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Speaker 12: That's the distinction.
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Speaker 8: There are varying levels of attention that a parents may
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Speaker 8: give this in this scenario, the criminal law does not
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Speaker 8: require them to be super superman and superwoman parents. And
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Speaker 8: that's just not what the legal threshold is.
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Speaker 1: We look at you. They don't have to be super
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Speaker 1: mom to keep your eyes open and off your cell phone,
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Speaker 1: to watch your child in the water over its head.
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Speaker 1: That's that's not super mom. That is a normal mom.
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Speaker 1: That's a responsible mom.
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Speaker 8: Well, I saw in that video you played earlier where
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Speaker 8: mother Jessica Weaver, moments before her child died, apparently was
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Speaker 8: filming her child going down the slide, and so to
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Speaker 8: say she was completely an attentive seems contradictory to the evidence.
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Speaker 1: Defense attorney Eric Fattus says, it's okay if mommy comes
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Speaker 1: to a water park with her three year old child
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Speaker 1: that obviously can't swim, for a reprieve, for a time out,
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Speaker 1: for a respite for mommy to chill while her son
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Speaker 1: paddles around in the water and drowns. Well, the district
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Speaker 1: attorney disagrees.
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Speaker 14: Listen, there's numerous witnesses that have come forward who have
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Speaker 14: given their account that they were there at the park,
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Speaker 14: they were watching, they saw her not paying attention to
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Speaker 14: her child, and that the child ended up drowning.
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Speaker 7: Witness one said a woman matching Weaver's description was on
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Speaker 7: her sitting outside of the pool for over an hour,
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Speaker 7: saying she was never looking up or paying attention to anything.
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Speaker 7: Witness too said she saw a boy without his mother
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Speaker 7: and that she saw Weaver laying down and singing along
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Speaker 7: to her phone for approximately seven minutes before the toddler
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Speaker 7: was pulled out of the water. Witness iree said a
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Speaker 7: woman matching Weaver's description encouraged the toddler to go into
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Speaker 7: the pool before walking away and leaving the boy by himself.
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Speaker 1: Some of that from our friends at Kate Fox fourteen
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight out to Elaine Autadiaz
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Speaker 1: joining US investigative reporter, Elaine, all these witnesses are coming forward,
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Speaker 1: what is your understanding of the timeline that happened that day?
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Speaker 4: So they go to the water park. It's a soft opening,
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Speaker 4: which means they're kind of getting ready their big, you know,
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Speaker 4: grand opening was going to be two weeks later for
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Speaker 4: Memorial Day weekend, and so that day they go, there's
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Speaker 4: about four hundred and sixty six people at this park,
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Speaker 4: which actually holds one thy four hundred and sixty people. Now,
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Speaker 4: the thing is she the mom goes, finds a lounge chair,
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Speaker 4: hangs out, and this is witness after witness after witness
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Speaker 4: tells investigators that she was not paying attention to her
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Speaker 4: boy while he was going through the lazy river and
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Speaker 4: the other thing.
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Speaker 5: To note a lazy river.
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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, elne out Adias, did you say lazy river?
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Speaker 1: Those currents are strong? What was this baby able to
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Speaker 1: get into a lazy river? It's not lazy.
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Speaker 4: It's lazy meaning you don't have to do any work
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Speaker 4: because it will take you.
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Speaker 5: The current takes you around and around.
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Speaker 4: And he did not have a life jacket, according to
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Speaker 4: witnesses and police.
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Speaker 5: And you know, at three years old.
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Speaker 4: There is a sign that says children under six should
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Speaker 4: have life jackets.
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Speaker 5: So you know, again something that's going to be brought
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Speaker 5: up in court. I'm sure you know.
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Speaker 1: Faddess Jackie here in the studio with me, saved two
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Speaker 1: children at the pool when she was there with her
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Speaker 1: little boy. When mommy's and dads weren't watching. I've saved
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Speaker 1: one when mommy wasn't watching. Get you know where mommy was.
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Speaker 1: She was on the side of the pool drinking alcohol
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Speaker 1: in a big red solo cut. Okay, I could smell it.
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Speaker 1: I say, not judging, but I am judging here because
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Speaker 1: in this case, the child is dead. Did you hear
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Speaker 1: what Elaine out Adiez just said. There are signs everywhere
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Speaker 1: that says under six years old, your child must wear
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Speaker 1: a life jacket.
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Speaker 8: Well, according to Jessica Weaver's attorney, the company actually prohibits
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Speaker 8: people from bringing their own life jackets. You'd have to
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Speaker 8: use the life jackets there. This was the first day
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Speaker 8: of this place was open. It's unclear how many extra
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Speaker 8: life jackets were available and what the process was for
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Speaker 8: distributing those to people who enter. Perhaps they should have
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Speaker 8: been distributed immediately upon entry.
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Speaker 12: That did not happen. And thank Kevin's you were there
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Speaker 12: to save those kids.
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Speaker 8: That this company should hire you all as lifeguards because
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Speaker 8: the lifeguards who were there failed in their role of
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Speaker 8: protecting these jugs.
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I can't do that. I'm busy dealing with you.
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Speaker 1: Faddish Elaine Aidias, that's not true because according to not
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Speaker 1: only the police investigation, but what the cityvale Passe was
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Speaker 1: saying back, there were plenty of water jackets, right.
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Speaker 4: There was a third of the people in there in
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Speaker 4: the water park. So the city is claiming that there
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Speaker 4: were more than enough life jackets, and the mother is
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Speaker 4: saying that there were not.
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Speaker 2: Another witness saw Jessica Weaver sitting by the pool on
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Speaker 2: the outside concrete area which separated the Lazy River and
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Speaker 2: the jungle gym with a slide, and that Weaver was
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Speaker 2: not in the water at any point and he never
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Speaker 2: saw her with a child. What caught his attention was
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Speaker 2: the way Weaver was acting, how she was all dulled up,
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Speaker 2: sitting outside the pool on her phone and taking pictures
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Speaker 2: the entire time he saw her. The man said, when
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Speaker 2: the child was pulled out of the water, Weaver was
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Speaker 2: still in the same spot and had not moved. She
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Speaker 2: only got in the water after her son was pulled out.
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Speaker 1: I can tell you this, Eric fattasaw. You're a criminal
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Speaker 1: defense attorney, boy, does she need one? The digital evidence
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Speaker 1: in this case is going to be the steak in
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Speaker 1: mommy's heart. Of course, she's presumed innocent if and until
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Speaker 1: she is proven guilty in a court of law. But
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Speaker 1: if this witness is correct, and I have no reason
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Speaker 1: to believe all of these witnesses lined up against her, Okay,
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Speaker 1: I love arguing that to the jury. What you believe
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Speaker 1: him or her over the eight witnesses that don't even
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Speaker 1: know her? Are they all lying and she's the only
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Speaker 1: one telling the truth? Okay, you could argue that to
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Speaker 1: a jury, But how are you going to argue fattest
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Speaker 1: the digital evidence? And what I mean is when the
18:34
Speaker 1: alarm is raised, I guarantee you there's a time and
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Speaker 1: accurate time as to when the child was first spotted
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Speaker 1: face down in the water. They're going to take her phone,
18:47
Speaker 1: or they should take her phone and look at what
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Speaker 1: time she was taking selfies. Did you see that selfie
18:55
Speaker 1: of her with a mouthful of red lipstick? Okay, that
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Speaker 1: selfie didn't take itself. Okay, she's doing that. That's what's
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Speaker 1: happening right there while her son is drowning. And they're
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Speaker 1: going to match up the time that she was listening
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Speaker 1: to music and singing into her iPhone and taking selfies.
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Speaker 1: They're going to match it up to the exact time
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Speaker 1: her little boy died.
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Speaker 8: That'll be an issue with which defense has to contend.
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Speaker 8: But what was everyone else doing during that time too,
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Speaker 8: that's also important, right, And it turns out some of
19:26
Speaker 8: the lifeguards were directed to be cooking churos and attending
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Speaker 8: to the sour cream and making sure the place makes money.
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Speaker 8: This is a matter of corporate greed that really infused
19:37
Speaker 8: this horrible set of circumstances and contributed substantially to what
19:41
Speaker 8: happened here. So certainly her phone is is a problem.
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Speaker 8: But what these folks were doing in the concessions, these lifeguards,
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Speaker 8: that's also a problem.
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Speaker 1: I don't know that I would call her phone a problem.
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Speaker 1: I don't think her phone was the problem. I think
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Speaker 1: she's the problem. And you're saying, what about all the
19:58
Speaker 1: other people? Okay, Eric, I hope you don't mean passers
20:04
Speaker 1: by or other people lounging outside the pool with their
20:09
Speaker 1: own children, taking care of their own children. I assume
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Speaker 1: you're saying that the lifeguards were the ones busy cooking truros.
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Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying?
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Speaker 12: According to Jesscuaver's attorney.
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Speaker 1: Yes, okay. Can I ask you, do you believe that
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Speaker 1: the lifeguards, according to her, that were in doing kitchen duty?
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Speaker 1: Are responsible for Weaver not watching her child? You're saying
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Speaker 1: the tot is their responsibility, not her responsibility.
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Speaker 8: What I'm saying is we're talking about, in the criminal
20:43
Speaker 8: law context, who caused this death, and but for these
20:47
Speaker 8: lifeguards not doing their job, they would have swooped in
20:51
Speaker 8: and done what they were paid to do, what they
20:53
Speaker 8: were ostensibly trained to do, although there's some question.
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Speaker 12: I swear they got adequate training whatsoever.
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Speaker 8: And so we're talking about causation here, and we're talking
21:02
Speaker 8: about blame, and I think that we need to take
21:04
Speaker 8: a broader look at that when we're talking about all
21:06
Speaker 8: the actors involved and how this culminated into this orrible event.
21:09
Speaker 1: Eric Fadas, this is a yes.
21:11
Speaker 11: No.
21:11
Speaker 1: Do you think I just fell off the turnip truck? No? Okay,
21:15
Speaker 1: that was wise because you are trying to mix civil
21:19
Speaker 1: law with criminal law. Causation and a nexus between actions
21:25
Speaker 1: and results are for civil liability. What we're looking at
21:30
Speaker 1: right here is mother's criminal activity, neglect and abandoning her
21:38
Speaker 1: child in a dangerous situation. Again, it's just like throwing
21:42
Speaker 1: you in the ring with a bunch of Rottwilers and
21:44
Speaker 1: saying have a nice day. And then singing along with
21:48
Speaker 1: your iPhone.
21:49
Speaker 12: Fancy.
21:50
Speaker 8: Throughout the course of human history, there have been horrible
21:53
Speaker 8: accidents that happen to children while they're in their parents' care.
21:56
Speaker 8: Not every single one of those accidents is a prosecutable murder.
22:00
Speaker 8: Sometimes these are just horrible events that happen, and it's
22:03
Speaker 8: more appropriate to litigate them in the civil realm. And
22:06
Speaker 8: that's what the mother is trying to do with her
22:08
Speaker 8: lawsuit against the city of el Pass.
22:10
Speaker 1: Defense attorney Eric Fattis calls it mommy's time out, mommy's reprieve. Well,
22:15
Speaker 1: the district attorney calls it a first degree felony. Joining
22:19
Speaker 1: me now, special guest Doctor Thomas Coyne, Chief and Medical
22:24
Speaker 1: Examiner and District two in the state of Florida, which
22:30
Speaker 1: is packed with water parks, forensic pathologists, neuropathologist, toxicologists. You
22:36
Speaker 1: can find him at doctor tmcoin. Doctor Coin, thank you
22:40
Speaker 1: for being with us. You just heard Elaine Autodias report
22:43
Speaker 1: that the child, according to witnesses, was alone for about
22:47
Speaker 1: an hour, where other witnesses observed later identified to be
22:51
Speaker 1: mommy taking selfies, lying in the sun, singing into her
22:57
Speaker 1: iPhone and more anything but being with the boy an
23:02
Speaker 1: hour Dodger coin. How long does it take for someone
23:06
Speaker 1: to drown?
23:07
Speaker 9: Very fast? Actually, you know, for an adult, the loss
23:10
Speaker 9: of consciousness probably occurs that around a time when you
23:13
Speaker 9: can no longer hold your breath, So for adults that
23:15
Speaker 9: may take about three minutes, but for kids much faster
23:18
Speaker 9: than that, probably in around one and a half minutes.
23:21
Speaker 9: But that may even be faster if the child has
23:24
Speaker 9: in a panic and starts to aspirate or breathe in water,
23:28
Speaker 9: which will cause you know, a spasm of the larynx,
23:31
Speaker 9: preventing further breathing. So I mean it could possibly be seconds.
23:36
Speaker 9: But on the other hand, we're also assuming that this
23:38
Speaker 9: child was awake when it became submerged. But playing around
23:41
Speaker 9: in a water park like this is very common for
23:43
Speaker 9: a child to get concussed, elbowed by another child, fall
23:47
Speaker 9: comes down a slide, hits his head, so he maybe
23:49
Speaker 9: knocked unconscious and then become submerged, and then of course
23:53
Speaker 9: death probably occurs within three minutes. The heart will stop
23:56
Speaker 9: once not enough oxygen is going to the brain as
23:59
Speaker 9: well as at the heart.
24:00
Speaker 1: Doctor coin. The state of Florida is dotted with water
24:05
Speaker 1: parks and pools for children. How many swimming deaths do
24:10
Speaker 1: you see a year approximately, Well, i'll tell you.
24:13
Speaker 9: In terms of our practice, it's the second leading cause
24:16
Speaker 9: of accidental death amongst children. We see a large volume
24:20
Speaker 9: of pool related deaths. Most of the cases we see
24:24
Speaker 9: are in home pools. You know, the classic story as
24:28
Speaker 9: a parent becomes distracted maybe with other children, allowing let's
24:32
Speaker 9: say a toddler to gain access to the outdoor Lenai,
24:35
Speaker 9: and then they fall into a pool. These are course
24:38
Speaker 9: of preventable deaths. In most cases, it's because the proper
24:42
Speaker 9: safety measures weren't in place. But yeah, unfortunately, every year
24:45
Speaker 9: in Florida, we see a large number of these unfortunate deaths.
24:49
Speaker 1: Doctor Coin, we were talking about how long it takes
24:52
Speaker 1: for a person to drown, and you mentioned that the
24:55
Speaker 1: child could have been concussed or had fallen asleep in
24:58
Speaker 1: the sun after playing the water for so long. Let's
25:03
Speaker 1: pretend that he was not concussed and that he was
25:06
Speaker 1: not over exerted from playing by himself for so long
25:11
Speaker 1: in a typical drowning. How long does that take?
25:15
Speaker 9: Generally it would take around I say a child this
25:18
Speaker 9: age probably a minute to a minute and a half.
25:20
Speaker 9: And the reason being is because once the child goes
25:23
Speaker 9: into the water and becomes submerged, of course your initial
25:26
Speaker 9: reflex is to hold your breath, but then panic ensues.
25:30
Speaker 9: Your heart rate goes up and it's natural for you
25:32
Speaker 9: to try to take a breath, and water is aspirated
25:35
Speaker 9: into the mouth and that causes a reflex closing of
25:38
Speaker 9: your larynx which would stop breathing. And so that really
25:42
Speaker 9: the time to loss of consciousness is how much oxygen
25:45
Speaker 9: reserve does this child have. This child is very young,
25:48
Speaker 9: high metabolic rate, probably running around all day, so I
25:51
Speaker 9: would assume that this process is much smaller. So I
25:55
Speaker 9: would bet you probably in about a minute of being
25:57
Speaker 9: submerged too, lost consciousness and then just under the water
26:01
Speaker 9: waiting for someone to find him an extract.
26:03
Speaker 1: Doctor Tom Griffiths agree or disagree?
26:05
Speaker 13: Well, I agree with the doctor definitely. It can be
26:07
Speaker 13: as little as ninety seconds. Traditional drownings may take for
26:11
Speaker 13: adults four to six minutes. But it's he's spot on.
26:17
Speaker 13: It can happen in seconds and again anywhere from ninety
26:20
Speaker 13: seconds in my mind, to a longer period of four
26:24
Speaker 13: to six minutes. But younger kids usually go sooner than later.
26:27
Speaker 1: So doctor Tom Griffiths. Knowing that a child can drown
26:31
Speaker 1: from A to Z start to finish in less than
26:36
Speaker 1: two minutes, you still stand by your theory. Agreeing with
26:42
Speaker 1: Fattest that it's okay for mommy to be on her
26:46
Speaker 1: cell phone taking selfies for an hour, I did.
26:50
Speaker 13: I did not agree with Fattest. I just agreed with
26:52
Speaker 13: him stating that sometimes parents do this negligent behavior. I
26:57
Speaker 13: don't agree that it's acceptable parents do this. I'm trying
27:01
Speaker 13: to point out that we have well trained lifeguards in
27:04
Speaker 13: good numbers at these water parks, and the training agencies
27:08
Speaker 13: like Ellis and Associates are excellent, but they can't overcome
27:13
Speaker 13: parents who neglect their children. I don't agree with Fattus.
27:16
Speaker 13: I'm just agree that they're not negligent. I'm agreeing that
27:20
Speaker 13: this does happen. This is the important point. Parents need
27:24
Speaker 13: to watch their children. I agree with the way you
27:27
Speaker 13: behave when your twins are at the water park.
27:29
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'd like your objective opinion, doctor Tom Griffiths,
27:35
Speaker 1: because I'm overly protected because in my world, not only
27:43
Speaker 1: can something conceivably go wrong, it will go wrong, because
27:48
Speaker 1: in my world, it's gone wrong before. After the murder
27:52
Speaker 1: of my fiance, so I see the world in a
27:55
Speaker 1: different way. Okay, I think it's very likely that something
28:00
Speaker 1: will go wrong, But for normal people, what is your advice?
28:06
Speaker 1: I mean, you've written all of these books, Doctor Tom Lifeguard,
28:10
Speaker 1: Vision app Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Chronicles, Safer Beaches, Better Beaches,
28:16
Speaker 1: and the complete swimming pool Reference, which is pretty amazing.
28:22
Speaker 1: You can find Tom at Aquaticsafetygroup dot com. That sounds
28:28
Speaker 1: a lot like the group we found to teach the
28:31
Speaker 1: kid our children to swim. We went through swimming twice
28:35
Speaker 1: when they were about I don't know, two and a half,
28:38
Speaker 1: then when they were a little older, and then I
28:42
Speaker 1: went with them for both of them to get their
28:46
Speaker 1: Scout Merit badge in swimming, which was no easy thing,
28:50
Speaker 1: was very rigorous. In fact, Doctor Griffiths, I know this
28:55
Speaker 1: was overdoing it. But when they went out of town
28:58
Speaker 1: to scout camp, I jumped in the water and did
29:03
Speaker 1: the know. I know they must have been humiliated, and
29:06
Speaker 1: did the swim test with them that would allow them
29:10
Speaker 1: to be around the water. You know. For the rest
29:13
Speaker 1: of the week I was so worried, frankly about my
29:16
Speaker 1: daughter being able to have the stamina to finish the
29:20
Speaker 1: swim test for Scout Camp because there's really a long test.
29:25
Speaker 1: I had to stop in the middle of dog paddle
29:27
Speaker 1: before I could finish the thing. So reasonably speaking for
29:32
Speaker 1: a normal person, what do you advise at a water park?
29:37
Speaker 1: Because that's a lot different than a pool in my mind,
29:40
Speaker 1: because water parks are crazy. There are so many children,
29:44
Speaker 1: there's a slide, there's music, there's people yelling, there's people eating,
29:49
Speaker 1: there's a lot of commotion, their birthday parties going on
29:53
Speaker 1: that people are singing, happy. It's crazy. It's a lot
29:56
Speaker 1: different from just being alone with your child in the pool.
30:00
Speaker 1: What should parents do?
30:02
Speaker 13: You're right, there's so many distractions at a water park.
30:05
Speaker 13: Number one, they should put their cell phone away. We
30:09
Speaker 13: like to say texting is neglecting. If you're on your phone,
30:12
Speaker 13: you're not watching your kids. If you're taking video of
30:16
Speaker 13: your child, you're really not watching your kid. We've had
30:19
Speaker 13: we've lost children while the mother was taking photos of
30:22
Speaker 13: their child. But a coast guard, a proof life jacket
30:26
Speaker 13: I believe, we believe should be required at these water parks.
30:30
Speaker 13: We don't think parents should be given the choice. I
30:32
Speaker 13: know everyone likes free choice, but for non swimming children
30:36
Speaker 13: under the age of six six and under or under
30:39
Speaker 13: forty eight inches tall, they should be in a properly
30:42
Speaker 13: fitting coast guard prove life jacket, because the life jacket
30:46
Speaker 13: is more vigilant than any parent or any lifeguard could
30:49
Speaker 13: ever be. So we believe in a note and float
30:52
Speaker 13: mentality where you note your child as a non swimmer
30:55
Speaker 13: and you float them in a coast guard a prove
30:57
Speaker 13: life jacket.
30:58
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting, I was talking about that community
31:00
Speaker 1: to be a pool where all those moms were out
31:01
Speaker 1: getting a son tan cancer and their children were unattended
31:08
Speaker 1: to be in the pool. I believe you should have
31:13
Speaker 1: a swimming test before you're in the pool. But that said,
31:16
Speaker 1: a lot of the children are too young to be
31:18
Speaker 1: able to swim. They should be in the kiddie pool.
31:20
Speaker 1: But I want you to hear doctor what mommy has
31:25
Speaker 1: to say.
31:26
Speaker 10: Like watching a slow train wreck because they weren't prepared.
31:31
Speaker 10: They didn't know. Really, it was panicking and chaos.
31:34
Speaker 1: That's my friends at k Fox fourteen. But Elaine Autodiaz,
31:38
Speaker 1: she says it was just like watching a slow train wreck.
31:42
Speaker 1: She wasn't watching even when medics were working on her son.
31:49
Speaker 1: He was pulled out of the water, and all the
31:51
Speaker 1: other parents were gathering around. They didn't know who the
31:53
Speaker 1: mom was, much less the dad. Dad wasn't there, but
31:56
Speaker 1: they didn't even know who the mom was. So she
32:00
Speaker 1: wasn't watching any slow train wreck, right.
32:05
Speaker 4: Witness after witness say that she was lounging. She was
32:13
Speaker 4: just staring at her phone. I believe one witness even
32:17
Speaker 4: had she stared into her phone for seven minutes, and
32:23
Speaker 4: that is just repeated over and over and for the
32:27
Speaker 4: longest time, she had no idea what her child was doing.
32:31
Speaker 1: How would a witness know that mommy was looking at
32:34
Speaker 1: her phone for seven straight minutes.
32:36
Speaker 4: Because she's all dolled up at a water park. And
32:40
Speaker 4: I get it, you know, especially if you're going with
32:43
Speaker 4: your girlfriends, you're turning it into a thing. You're gonna
32:46
Speaker 4: get dressed up in your best swimsuit. But she's a
32:50
Speaker 4: mother to a three year old, and she was, you know,
32:57
Speaker 4: all dulled up as they say, and you know, I
33:01
Speaker 4: mean she's wearing this yellow top. I mean you cannot
33:05
Speaker 4: look away. And so I think you know, someone watched
33:10
Speaker 4: her for seven minutes, because that's what was reported to police.
33:20
Speaker 1: Crimes tours with Nancy Grace.
33:26
Speaker 15: Investigators looking into the Mother's Day weekend drowning death of
33:30
Speaker 15: three year old Anthony Malave are stunned to find out
33:32
Speaker 15: the mother of the toddler is filing a lawsuit against
33:35
Speaker 15: Destination al Paso, the company that runs the city's water parks,
33:39
Speaker 15: and against the City of El Paso, alleging gross negligence
33:42
Speaker 15: and wrongful death. The lawsuit has been filed on behalf
33:45
Speaker 15: of Jessica Weaver by a Houston law firm and claims
33:47
Speaker 15: that during the park's soft opening, the city and Destination
33:51
Speaker 15: al Paso we're too concerned with packing the water park
33:53
Speaker 15: with people and ensuring that the live band was playing.
33:57
Speaker 1: Well, let's hear it from the Horse's Mouth.
33:58
Speaker 10: City.
33:59
Speaker 16: You know had this soft opening to get their operations going,
34:04
Speaker 16: but it cost my son because they weren't ready.
34:07
Speaker 10: They weren't ready.
34:08
Speaker 16: For a drowning and more children trying to save children.
34:12
Speaker 16: And I understand, you know, they're like they're young lifeguards,
34:16
Speaker 16: but at least have someone who's done this before.
34:20
Speaker 1: Karen start with me. Renowned psychologists joining us from the
34:24
Speaker 1: Manhattan jurisdiction. Karen, when I analyzed her words, the city
34:31
Speaker 1: had a soft opening but it cost my son. They
34:35
Speaker 1: weren't ready. She goes on to say that the lifeguards
34:39
Speaker 1: looked young and inexperienced. I mean, when you go to
34:42
Speaker 1: a water park with a single most important thing in
34:46
Speaker 1: your world, which is your child, shouldn't you look at
34:50
Speaker 1: the lifeguards and you, as the parent, assess whether they
34:54
Speaker 1: are capable.
34:56
Speaker 6: Not only that, Nancy, of course, the lifeguards should have
34:59
Speaker 6: been trained in However, this child should have been wearing
35:03
Speaker 6: a vest. She doesn't even mention anything about a life vest.
35:07
Speaker 5: You've been at pools. I've been at pools.
35:09
Speaker 6: All little babies, three year olds are wearing those water wings.
35:13
Speaker 6: In addition to it, it's very interesting to me that
35:16
Speaker 6: she's all dialed up at that pool, but during this
35:20
Speaker 6: interview she looks much more conservative, pulled together, and it
35:26
Speaker 6: doesn't seem like there's any grief. I've seen so many
35:30
Speaker 6: parents talk about dead children and they're tearing up and
35:34
Speaker 6: crying while they're talking.
35:35
Speaker 12: About that child.
35:36
Speaker 6: And here I see, honestly, the same narcissism, the narcissistic
35:42
Speaker 6: neglect that you see at that pool, and somebody who
35:46
Speaker 6: is very composed, ready to defend herself and deflect the blame.
35:51
Speaker 1: You know, what I think you're right, Karen start. Let's
35:53
Speaker 1: take a look at mommy. Here she is at the
35:55
Speaker 1: pool as opposed to speaking for her lawsuit.
36:01
Speaker 10: Listen watching a slow train wreck because they weren't prepared.
36:06
Speaker 10: They didn't know. Really, it was panicking and chaos.
36:09
Speaker 1: From our friends at Kay Fox fourteen. And now listen
36:14
Speaker 1: to Mommy's next claim.
36:16
Speaker 2: Two months after Jessica Weaver filed her wrongful death lawsuit
36:20
Speaker 2: and almost four months after Anthony's death, thirty five year
36:23
Speaker 2: old Jessica Weaver is arrested in her home state of
36:25
Speaker 2: Indiana on a fugitive warrant out of El Paso, Texas.
36:29
Speaker 2: Waving extradition.
36:30
Speaker 1: She is transported to.
36:31
Speaker 2: El Paso, where she is let out of jail with
36:33
Speaker 2: a one hundred thousand dollars bond. Weaver's attorneys claimed the
36:37
Speaker 2: arrest of Weaver is retaliatory tactics for her lawsuit.
36:41
Speaker 1: Okay, Elene Autodios, let me understand. She's arrested and now
36:47
Speaker 1: the civil attorney, which is a lawyer not defending you
36:51
Speaker 1: on a crime, but is seeking money damages for you.
36:56
Speaker 1: The civil lawyer is claiming Mommy was arrested out of
37:00
Speaker 1: revenge for the lawsuit.
37:02
Speaker 4: Well, let's take a look at the timeline. So Anthony,
37:06
Speaker 4: three year old Anthony dies on May thirteenth, twenty twenty three.
37:12
Speaker 4: Then about six weeks later, on June thirtieth, the civil
37:17
Speaker 4: lawsuit is filed. And then September fifth, twenty twenty three,
37:25
Speaker 4: she's arrested. But then in Texas she's just arrested. Her
37:30
Speaker 4: indictment came in December, so it's been it's been a
37:35
Speaker 4: bit of a timeline. And so they are saying that
37:39
Speaker 4: because she filed a million dollar lawsuit against the city
37:44
Speaker 4: of El Paso, that they in turn went and arrested her.
37:48
Speaker 1: Okay, she got indicted.
37:50
Speaker 17: Listen, Jessica Weaver indicted in the death of her three
37:53
Speaker 17: year old son, and if convicted, could face life in prison.
37:56
Speaker 17: The indictment states Weaver failed to provide care for her son,
37:59
Speaker 17: did not give her toddler a life vest, did not
38:02
Speaker 17: get in the water with her son, she did not
38:05
Speaker 17: follow park rules, she did not keep her son in
38:08
Speaker 17: her sight, and allowed Anthony in the water soon after eating.
38:12
Speaker 1: As Mommy blames the city of El Paso and the lifeguards.
38:16
Speaker 1: This is what the district attorney has to say.
38:18
Speaker 14: Lifeguards at our water parks are not babysitters. They are
38:23
Speaker 14: there to try to provide life saving treatment, but they're
38:29
Speaker 14: not there to babysit. It is a parent's responsibility to
38:33
Speaker 14: take care of your children.
38:34
Speaker 1: Now from our friends that Kate Fox at fourteen, it's
38:37
Speaker 1: not the first time that a mom has been criminally
38:42
Speaker 1: charged for ignoring their child in the water.
38:46
Speaker 11: Ayas allegedly asked the hotel staff to open this indoor
38:50
Speaker 11: pool so Caitlin could swim. The workers warned her there
38:53
Speaker 11: was no lifeguard on duty, mom, says a watcher. Meanwhile,
38:58
Speaker 11: Ericabias has a five month old son that she left
39:01
Speaker 11: alone in the hotel room. Still five month old boy
39:04
Speaker 11: left alone in the hotel room. Seven year old girl
39:07
Speaker 11: left alone at the pool while mom goes to the bar.
39:09
Speaker 11: Bias went to check on the little girl. They found
39:12
Speaker 11: her quote floating lifeless in the pool, according to the
39:15
Speaker 11: district attorney, But instead of leaping right in to get
39:19
Speaker 11: her daughter, Bias took her time, allegedly removing her shoes
39:23
Speaker 11: and socks and making sure her phone won't get wet
39:25
Speaker 11: before jumping in to save her daughter.
39:27
Speaker 1: That is a senior editor with the Daily Wire Ash
39:31
Speaker 1: short So in that case. Also, Eric Fattus, we see
39:36
Speaker 1: mommy using the pool as a babysitter, while she actually
39:41
Speaker 1: asked the hotel staff to let the child in so
39:46
Speaker 1: she can have alone time before she retreats to the bar.
39:49
Speaker 12: That's correct in that case.
39:51
Speaker 8: You know, I'm also aware of a case where this
39:53
Speaker 8: woman essentially just let her child walk around the neighborhood
39:57
Speaker 8: for an hour or so longer and was charge with
40:00
Speaker 8: child abuse in that scenario.
40:02
Speaker 12: So where is the line?
40:03
Speaker 9: You know?
40:03
Speaker 8: I understand that that we need attentive parents, but that
40:05
Speaker 8: doesn't mean you need to have your eyes glued to
40:07
Speaker 8: them every second of every day, especially if you've entrusted
40:11
Speaker 8: their care to another.
40:12
Speaker 1: Okay, number one, I don't trust your rendition of the
40:14
Speaker 1: facts that a child walked for one hour and mom
40:18
Speaker 1: was arrested. I'd like to know how old a child is,
40:21
Speaker 1: and I'd like to point out that there's a big
40:24
Speaker 1: difference in a child I don't know the age because
40:28
Speaker 1: you conveniently left that fact out. A child walking in
40:31
Speaker 1: its own neighborhood amongst neighbors, breathing air, and being left
40:37
Speaker 1: alone in a life threatening situation water where you can die.
40:41
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't you say Thomas Coin that a person,
40:45
Speaker 1: much less a child can die in less than two
40:48
Speaker 1: minutes in the water.
40:50
Speaker 9: That's correct, that fast?
40:51
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, doctor, So there's a huge difference in the
40:55
Speaker 1: two scenarios you're laying out fattest. I mean, give me
41:00
Speaker 1: something real if you want to, don't bring a knife
41:04
Speaker 1: to a gunfight. Okay, I don't let you think about
41:07
Speaker 1: that for just a moment. Try to figure out what
41:09
Speaker 1: that means. The phone. In Dubaya's case, mommy's on the phone.
41:14
Speaker 1: In this case, mommy's on the phone. So to doctor
41:17
Speaker 1: Tom Griffiths, whats with that?
41:20
Speaker 13: Parents shouldn't be on the phone and parents, like kids,
41:24
Speaker 13: are addicted to their phones. There's water parks in Western
41:27
Speaker 13: Australia that have the parents shoot a QR code as
41:31
Speaker 13: they enter the facility and it says welcome to our pool.
41:35
Speaker 13: Now get off your phone and watch your kids. We
41:38
Speaker 13: have to be more aggressive about warning parents, adults, caregivers
41:45
Speaker 13: to stay off their phones, turn them off and keep
41:48
Speaker 13: them away because they've got to not only be off
41:51
Speaker 13: their phones, but they have to be in the water
41:53
Speaker 13: with their children. The phones are a problem, Apple watches
41:58
Speaker 13: are a problem. Any handheld technology around the water is
42:02
Speaker 13: a real problem because we don't have enough discipline to
42:05
Speaker 13: stay off them.
42:06
Speaker 3: Katherine Bodom leaves her eleven month old daughter, Cecilia and
42:09
Speaker 3: her two and a half year old son alone in
42:11
Speaker 3: the bathtub with the water running, to go downstairs to
42:14
Speaker 3: shop online for shoes. Botom's ten year old daughter says
42:17
Speaker 3: after nineteen minutes, the two year old boy comes down
42:20
Speaker 3: the stairs saying there's a problem. Mom stops shopping long
42:24
Speaker 3: enough to go upstairs and find Cecilia unconscious and turning blue.
42:28
Speaker 3: Botom is charged with second degree manslaughter.
42:30
Speaker 1: Eric fat Is joining US high profile criminal defense lawyer.
42:33
Speaker 1: What about that mommy shopping online for shoes while the
42:37
Speaker 1: children are in the bathtub. I guess that's mommy getting
42:41
Speaker 1: time out and a reprieve, as you call it.
42:44
Speaker 8: I think what it goes to show is that these
42:46
Speaker 8: cases are factually dependent.
42:48
Speaker 12: We've got to take them on a case by case basis.
42:51
Speaker 8: There weren't any lifeguards in that bathroom where those children
42:54
Speaker 8: were in the bathtub, and so certainly there are different
42:57
Speaker 8: facts that we'll have bearing on each individual case. But
43:00
Speaker 8: the facts here suggest that there are other folks responsible
43:03
Speaker 8: besides just this single mother who lost her son.
43:05
Speaker 1: Karen, start joining me psychologists, Karen, the fixation on iPhones,
43:11
Speaker 1: shopping online while your children are in the water. I
43:16
Speaker 1: guess the next thing Fats is going to argue is
43:18
Speaker 1: that mommies and dads were addicted to their cell phones.
43:23
Speaker 6: Well, this is crazy, because people are addicted to their
43:27
Speaker 6: cell phones, Nancy, but when it comes to their children,
43:31
Speaker 6: there's nothing more important than your children. So we're talking
43:34
Speaker 6: about really someone who's narcissistic and not equipped to be parenting.
43:40
Speaker 6: Not an hour, I don't care how long you're on
43:44
Speaker 6: your phone and your child is in the water without
43:47
Speaker 6: you being there, and you're taking pictures.
43:50
Speaker 1: And let me ask you this, Karen start. I don't
43:52
Speaker 1: mean just being rude and having your phone out at
43:55
Speaker 1: the dinner table. I mean it is being online addiction
44:01
Speaker 1: like alcohol or drugs, where it completely takes over your
44:04
Speaker 1: life and you're unaware of what's happening around you. I mean,
44:07
Speaker 1: I know it's a bad habit, but is that I
44:11
Speaker 1: don't see that it can be an addiction to that extent.
44:13
Speaker 6: Well, I don't know. It's sort of becoming an addiction,
44:17
Speaker 6: but that's really not what we're talking about here. I
44:21
Speaker 6: don't think we're talking about someone who's addicted. I think
44:23
Speaker 6: we're talking about someone who's narcissistic and self involved.
44:27
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, Karen, that I could see a defense
44:31
Speaker 1: when their first defense fails, their second defense fails. First
44:35
Speaker 1: they're going to say the lifeguards were cooking uros okay.
44:39
Speaker 1: Then they're going to say there were not enough lifeguards.
44:41
Speaker 1: Then they're going to say they didn't put the life
44:45
Speaker 1: jacket on my child because we now know there were
44:48
Speaker 1: lifejackets there that the child wasn't wearing. Then they're going
44:53
Speaker 1: to be witnesses claiming she was on her phone. I
44:57
Speaker 1: know it's far fetched. I know it sounds laughable in stark,
45:01
Speaker 1: but I could see her arguing that she has a
45:04
Speaker 1: phone addiction, a digital addiction, social media addiction, and that
45:11
Speaker 1: it blinded her to what was happening around her, including
45:14
Speaker 1: her child drowning. Do I think it makes sense? No,
45:17
Speaker 1: of course not. But what else can she say?
45:20
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I don't know anything in the DSM right now, Nancy,
45:24
Speaker 6: which actually says the Diagnostic Manual for Psychologists and psychiatrists,
45:29
Speaker 6: but it actually says that there's such a thing as
45:31
Speaker 6: a phone a social media addiction. They're making that up.
45:35
Speaker 6: I don't see how Okay.
45:37
Speaker 1: You heard it, Eric Fattis, don't tune up. Second verse
45:40
Speaker 1: same as the first. And there's more. It happens every day,
45:46
Speaker 1: Olivia Miller.
45:48
Speaker 4: Listen, No, we're not trying to treat dios.
45:53
Speaker 1: I don't know.
45:54
Speaker 4: Maybe as the rest of my life, for this break
45:57
Speaker 4: magm Son, I would never imagine him.
46:00
Speaker 5: Like we are literally just having the first time I
46:02
Speaker 5: did here today.
46:03
Speaker 10: Well, I believe in like heaven and stuff.
46:07
Speaker 8: I don't believe that it was his time.
46:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't believe that anything knows clever right, he
46:13
Speaker 1: was supposed to come up. What is she saying? Okay,
46:17
Speaker 1: First of all, she says, I think that she's being
46:21
Speaker 1: treated like an animal in that case. Fattest, as I
46:25
Speaker 1: was talking about the digital trail of evidence that mom
46:30
Speaker 1: was on the phone for twenty one straight minutes before
46:34
Speaker 1: calling nine to one one her child died. Thoughts more
46:40
Speaker 1: of a little break, a little time out for mom.
46:42
Speaker 12: You know, I think that there's a distinction there.
46:44
Speaker 8: On the phone for twenty minutes, you're actively engaged in
46:47
Speaker 8: a conversation, You're listening, you're receiving information, you're putting information
46:51
Speaker 8: out there as opposed to just sort of scrolling one's phone.
46:53
Speaker 8: I think anyone who has a phone would say those
46:55
Speaker 8: are different activities. Now doesn't mean that one person should
46:58
Speaker 8: be guilty and one person shouldn't be guilty. I can't
47:01
Speaker 8: go that far, but I'm saying that there are little
47:03
Speaker 8: factual nuances that matter in each of these cases.
47:06
Speaker 1: You know, Elaine Attidiaz joining US investigative reporter. I've been
47:09
Speaker 1: taking a look at the defendant in the case in chief,
47:14
Speaker 1: and like Karen Stark said, there's no indication that she
47:19
Speaker 1: is upset about her so uncertainly she must be. I mean,
47:21
Speaker 1: I'm just maybe projecting onto her, but she seems pretty calm,
47:25
Speaker 1: cool and collected talking about how it's everybody else's fault.
47:30
Speaker 4: There is never a perfect victim. There's no rule book
47:34
Speaker 4: on how grieving parents react.
47:37
Speaker 1: I think, oh, wait, are you saying that mom is
47:39
Speaker 1: the victim?
47:40
Speaker 5: I am saying, I'm just giving you facts that you
47:45
Speaker 5: just said.
47:45
Speaker 1: There's no perfect victim. The victim in this case is
47:48
Speaker 1: a three year old child that was left alone in
47:51
Speaker 1: the water at a crowded water park while mommy took
47:54
Speaker 1: selfies and reapplied lipstick. That's the victim. Mommy's not the
47:59
Speaker 1: victim here, but.
48:00
Speaker 5: She's being charged.
48:02
Speaker 18: She is a defendant, and so that's right, you know,
48:06
Speaker 18: you know, and so she is going to come at them.
48:12
Speaker 4: With everything she has because this is serious. She can
48:15
Speaker 4: go to prison for life, and so you know she's
48:20
Speaker 4: going to go after.
48:22
Speaker 1: I know that she's the possibility of life behind bars.
48:27
Speaker 1: Am I supposed to feel bad about that? What I
48:29
Speaker 1: feel bad about is a three year old? You know,
48:31
Speaker 1: to you, doctor Coyne, what is it like to drown?
48:34
Speaker 1: What does a victim go through when they drowned? Doctor
48:36
Speaker 1: Thomas COINMT. So that's a little boy.
48:38
Speaker 9: To me, I can only imagine it must be horrible fear.
48:40
Speaker 9: I mean in that moment, the anxiety that you are
48:43
Speaker 9: wrought with because you know, as you begin especially to
48:47
Speaker 9: aspirate or inhale water and suddenly realize you can't reade.
48:50
Speaker 9: I mean me, just as a person with asthma, I
48:52
Speaker 9: know I have a really bad asthma attack. My anxiety
48:55
Speaker 9: picks up pretty fast if I realize I can't breathe.
48:58
Speaker 9: And so in that moment that I just just must
49:00
Speaker 9: have had complete fear and horror.
49:02
Speaker 1: It must have been horrible, you know, doctor Coyne, I
49:06
Speaker 1: recalled distinctly two incidents of near drowning. One when I
49:12
Speaker 1: was about three and my mom was talking to another
49:17
Speaker 1: lady about four feet away from me the moment I
49:20
Speaker 1: went underwater. She jumped in in her clothes and saved me. Okay,
49:24
Speaker 1: I was just sitting on the steps of a pool
49:28
Speaker 1: and was playing a game and jumped off the step
49:31
Speaker 1: and went immediately underwater and didn't know how to swim
49:35
Speaker 1: yet she saved me. The second time, I was about
49:38
Speaker 1: thirteen at a big lake and went under and that feeling.
49:42
Speaker 1: I immediately gulped in a lot of water. It was
49:45
Speaker 1: way over my head with a lake, you know, the
49:48
Speaker 1: surface at the bottom is uneven and I was walking
49:51
Speaker 1: out and immediately went under. And I remember the feeling
49:55
Speaker 1: you're describing, and it was scary. It was horrific. I remember,
49:59
Speaker 1: like it happened yesterday, Doctor Coin.
50:01
Speaker 9: Yeah, I had the same thing. Happened when I was
50:02
Speaker 9: two on the Jersey Shore. I had a wave that
50:04
Speaker 9: took me under. Thankfully my father was watching me. It
50:07
Speaker 9: came ran over and pulled me right out right away.
50:09
Speaker 9: But I can still remember that if I closed my eyes,
50:12
Speaker 9: just the fear of the moment, I think it stays
50:15
Speaker 9: with you for life.
50:16
Speaker 1: We wait as just a sun falls. Goodbye friend,