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The Journey From Apprentice To Master · The Electrical Show

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The Electrical Show with Thomas Naji sponsored by Boss Professional Powerful power tools for measuring
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tools and experts accessories. Welcome to the Electrical Show here on Fixed Radio with
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Bosh Professional. I'm your host Thomas Naji, and with me once again is
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Paul Meaning at the side on this with hello. On this week's show,
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we're going to track the journey from apprentice to master in the trade and discuss
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what each step was like for us. Now music over the coin fact.
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Before music, I like to have my short little what should we call it?
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We should give this a name, Paul, this little where I give
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little anecdotes of life knowledge. Let's give it a name. Well, my
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first thought was nighttime nagy, but it's not nine o'cloud. Depending on whether
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you're listening this at ten o'clock, it is nighttime nargy. But text in
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some ideas. Yes. Eighty one four hundred started message with the word fix
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now last week in actually in the first link I was talking about the delay
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of gratification and just going on from that, there was another. I love
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reading these studies and stuff and just learning. All the people call me boring.
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I don't care life experience like life experience is really like we can talk
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about electrical stuff, but some of the most for me, like some of
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the most important stuff you can talk about is actually just like life lessons,
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like human stories, and everyone is so you know, we're talking about business
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and stuff, and everyone is so fixated on earning money more. To be
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fair, I am also like that, you know. But there was a
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study that was done and what they found. I'm still trying to get this
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person, I said about two years ago. I'm trying to get this the
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woman who did this study, she's a doctor at Birmingham University or something,
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and she did a study and anyway, what she found was that happiness,
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it loosely equates to money. So what she found was that as as your
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wages increase, your level of happiness increases, which would make sense. So
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money doesn't buy happiness, but it buys you the things which make your life
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a bit easier, which give happiness. Okay, but that only goes up
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to about seventy five grand. So what she found is fascinating. Up to
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seventy five grand, happiness kept on increasing, but it plateaued us after seventy
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five grand. It made no difference to people's levels of happiness. So basically
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what I'm saying is you could have an income of two million a year.
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People were no happier up there than they were at seventy five. Seventy five
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was the cutoff point. Wow, yeah, that's all it is. Seventy
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five that was all she found in this study. And it was a big
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study. It was a lot of people she are and well that was what
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she came back with as a results. So we think about if we have,
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you know, half a million a year or something will be much happier,
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studies suggest otherwise. So you have a deep and meaningful moment. Well,
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if you've got two people, if you if you're a husband and wife
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with two point four kids and you both earning seventy five k, that's a
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really you know, if you've both got good jobs, if you're earning seventy
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five k, that's as happy as you're going to be. So chasing millions
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and millions and millions isn't necessarily going to make you happier, as what I'm
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saying. So it's food for thought. Hmm, Yeah, that's what I
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thought. Music over the next hour from look, no one knew that everyone's
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on side, thinking it's really interesting. That's why they tune in Fix radio
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time to crack on. You're listening to the electrical show and we're plotting the
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journey from being an apprentice to being a seasoned professional and discussing what that was
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like for us. Now, Paul, what was your apprenticeship? Like,
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Ah, you go, then I'll go traumatizing. That's that's pretty across the
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board now. At the time, it was really hard because mine was split
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because the company I worked for initially they kind of like closed after a year.
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That was domestic commercials off. Then I jumped on rail and let's put
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mental health was not a consideration during my apprenticeship. There were many times I
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went home crying or I got hit with bits of conduit or unistrut. I
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hate to say it out loud, but it did actually happen. Eventually I
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did retaliate and it was almost a writer passage. But did I learn loads?
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Yes? Did it help me on my journey to becoming a young man,
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Yes? Did it teach me stuff that my father never taught me?
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Yes? Did it show me what good people were and bad people were?
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It started to give me an idea that there were some good and bad people.
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Would I change any of it? No little bit. Apprentices have changed
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definitely because mine was a million miles removed from that. We would I think
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I was like a year one apprentice and we were drilling into a concrete ceiling
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to put anchors, dropping anchors, hammer them in, put some stud But
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you've got to drill the whole perfectly square both ways. Now, obviously I
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wasn't paying a lot of attention, and mine weren't perfectly square, and I
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think absolutely hate I wanted his head on a spike. I hated the guy.
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And he just came behind me and just stuck the drill bit in and
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it was literally like a forty five degree angle, and I remember he just
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took it out of the hand and just literally we were building a hospital at
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rd and E down next to her, and he just launched this drill bit
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that is ten mil bit across the site. It's so embarrassing because that was
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just ingrained in my head now. But there's a lot of stuff you just
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can't do now, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, because like it was
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horrible, but it is really weird because I have apprentices now and I find
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myself being really nice to them. Yeah. Yeah, I also don't have
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to go no no, no, no, go old school. Don't bully
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them, don't intimidate them. Yeah, but put them under a little bit
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of pressure and just watch them creak. And that I know it sounds a
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bit some people are probably going, oh no, that's terrible. That there
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is a certain level of pressure which is a healthy pressure, because becoming a
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tradesman, in your apprenticeship, it's about being having pressure applied to you in
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a way where you will come You will come up, you will you will
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develop the right thinking, you will develop the right way of doing things,
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whether it be physical works or mental thinking. And that pressure is the eat,
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sleep, repeat of it is what gives you the experience to be a
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very good tradesman. We don't go to the extents now of hitting people.
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And I got a certain depot I had. I remember I had an Abb
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Steward's a boiler suit on and it was loose for me, and I remember
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a bit of shallow unistrup being going through my arms and being mounted to a
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frame for a few hours. I remember my camera. I had one of
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those old thirty five mil film cameras, throw away ones that I know.
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Spent a lot of my salary on trying to take photos to show my tutor
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that I was doing big boys stuff, you know, big armors. And
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I remember being sent out for dinner and all the lads lining up outside Wembley
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train care depot dropping their pants, taking photos on my camera, putting there,
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putting my camera down their pants. This is a true story. And
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then I would go home and go, oh the cameras, you know,
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give it to my missusgo could you get out of helop because I'm busy working
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long hours. And then about two weeks later when the film got developed,
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it was just a roll of bums. And so yeah, I got lots
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of pranks. I think. One other thing which really annoyed me when I
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finished my apprenticeship, I was at Waterloo and my missus as a present,
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bought me some brand new Nicare trainers, my first ever pair, and the
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lads came fixed them to the ceiling of Waterloo station and I went into the
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foreman, God bless him, and I was fuming because they let me go
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early. It was a night shift, and I said them, bleep,
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bleep, bleep bleeps have done this? You need to sack them. And
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when I told him what happened, he just sat back. In his Irish
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accent, he went, there are some lads and I was like, oh
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man, she's gonna kill me. But do you know what all them I
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love and respect all them lads, and it builds some great memories. So
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take the rough with this move, and it is definitely part of building your
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character and your caliber as a tradesman. So I wouldn't change anything, but
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it's changed a bit. I mean, you wouldn't change anything. But looking
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at modern apprenticeships now, there does seem to be a different expectation for what
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apprentices expect because I don't know. Yes, I seem to find that there's
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a very much you need to give me that I'm entitled to this I once
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have this. There is an ever ever growing gap and a problem with apprentices
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And again it's owner my opinion. As an employer, I have a set
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of expectations that are generational. The modern apprentices now spend their first year in
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college just doing health and safety. Now they're doing that for a reason.
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Is it because our generation failed so badly at health and safety that they're trying
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to improve it? And going right, You can't actually be near anything because
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years ago, when you're an apprentice, you weren't allowed to do jack anywhere
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on all live stuff until they knew you had half a brain on you and
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you were supervised. But evidently, I think over the years the apprenticeship standard
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or the application of what apprentice is. I know from experience there are some
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companies that will employ lots of apprentices, but they're not the cheap labor.
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They call them apprentices so they can pay them little and they don't teach them,
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and that does you know that can be detrimental to some people come into
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the industry sadly because they'll end up leaving. But yeah, it's a lot
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different now. We need to our expectations is not others reality, and we
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need to adapt our expectations for what are a modern apprentices. However, it
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is within our realm of influence to make sure that the practical skills of that
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trade are taught and measured to what we expect. To be honest with you,
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our apprentices should be better versions of us. Let's be perfect, frank,
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because there will come a time when you let them go out by themselves.
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And we've got an apprentice where I work young lad Joe. When I
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first met him five years ago he was wet behind the ears. Now he's
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a very confident, calm, you know, very positive thinking, good electrician.
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It's great to a shiva. So it does work. You don't have
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to beat it into them, is what I'm saying. Well, let's talk
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about how we can become competent and which don electricians. Next The Electrical Show
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Thursday from three and catch up anytime at Fix Radio dot co dot uk the
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builder station Fix Radio. This is the Electrical Show with Bosch Professional and Thomas
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Naji with Paul Mean, and we're talking about the route we take from being
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a novice apprentice to being a master of your craft. Now, Paul,
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key steps, what do we think key steps that can't be missed when you're
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turning yourself into let's say, a thoughtful independent member of our trade. For
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me, the most important step it was realizing that I can. I know
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it sounds very corny, but I remember when I was a first year,
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second year and I want to be able to do that. I want to
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be able to do that. And then as I went through my time,
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realizing that actually I was exceeding what I thought i'd want to do. You
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know, by the time I was in my four fear of my apprenticeship,
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I was building unistrup frames, putting panels up, glanding big armoreds, and
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I was doing it by myself. Because the former like, yeah, he's
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a machine, he's young, he's keen, he's hungry, runs around like
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a lunatic. You know, he does put a shift in, especially because
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I was the apprentices and the foreman's got permission from me old man to you
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know, treat me quite aggressively. So I worked, I put a shift
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in, and the minute I finished my apprenticeship, I was being put in
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charge of jobs. So it was that. But I wouldn't have accepted that
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if I didn't have that realization moment of I can do that. I can
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actually build a backbone of free compartment trunk in and unistructure piece brackets, and
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I can do this, and I know what a single point of failure is,
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and I know what this is. You definitely come into a realization.
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I think for a lot of people it doesn't happen sometimes until later on,
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sometimes past the four or five years. But I think, why we I
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mean for me, especially, an apprenticeship is four or five years minimum before
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you'd come out and go right, I can actually now do this by myself,
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lead other people train, other people share that knowledge. I know some
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apprenticeships are well on. Training courses are very short, but very very short,
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ridiculously, But we won't get into that. What kind of learning do
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we think we're going to be needing after the apprenticeship, because it's kind of
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like saying, you know, you learn to drive after you pass your test.
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Yeah, that's a really good saying. Actually, yeah, you've got
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you like, but that's not you know, the journey only starts when you
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get a cart and one assessing you anymore, the journey starts. I mean
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that's how that's where your journey begins. It's like, that's your that's your
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your start point. You've never had that before, No, never, You're
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full of philosophy to drive. Honestly, you learn to drive after you pass
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your test. I my test anyway. But moving on, there's a whole
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there's a whole episode in that at allowed it to night time Najia I.
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It depends on the direction that you want to go. So if you just
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want to be a good grafter and just earn your money. If if you
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know what you know and your your workmanship is good, you will be selected
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out to be doing all the work, doing all the overtimes. During the
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weekend, the work will be there for you on a plate. If you
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want to go into supervision, you know there's there's a journey you've got to
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go on to. You've got to get some maybe some formal safety qualifications,
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even like the SSSTS if you want to just do some site supervision. If
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you're an electrical contractor, if you want to, you know, take a
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step up. You do your SMSTS so you can be a qualified site manager
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that used to be recognized by CDM rigs. If you want to go into
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project management, you could do some maybe contractual training, learn what the NEC
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contracts are, the JCT because the end of the day, you're going to
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go from one day putting Unich strap on the wall job Bo's going right,
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You're not only doing the day sheets, but you're going to represent them some
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site. So you need to know when somebody's telling you do this, do
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this one, it's a change, how do you administer that? So there's
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a huge we never stop learning in this trade regardless of what you do.
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And this is the trouble you can never master, in my opinion, everything
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in this trade, because not only have you got THEMS, the domestic,
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the commercial of the industrial, you've got the different levels, the different approaches
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where you're an apprentice electrician, a text way, a lead formant, a
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project manager, project engineer, a site engineer, contracts engineer. There's so
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many variants. It's like looking at the sun from different angles. Everybody sees
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the sun, but the journey will be slightly different, and the temperature and
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pressure there under will be slightly different. So it all depends on where you
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want to go. But the one thing people need to realize is the weld
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youh oister in this trade because there's not enough of us. Yeah, there's
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just not enough. I think it's going to get it's going to get even
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worse. I think give it ten years. I said that ten years ago,
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and I'm seeing how really desperately bad it is. More. I think
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some of it has probably focused on my LinkedIn posts in the negative, but
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I generally ten years ago read a report that said we are going to be
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in a dire state with the trades and the number of people in trades and
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then to see that thing from the Construction Leadership Council that was talking about hundreds
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of thousands of people have left and not many people have joined. All it
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did was ratify that. And as someone who orders the work, because that's
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what I do do I order the work, I sometimes have to order the
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work into an abyss and with contractors going sorry, I ain't got any staff,
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I can't get good people, and he's just like, ah, there's
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a bigger problem here. But when you're the person ordering the work, you've
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then got to have a conversation with people who don't know anything about the construction
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trades, and that's the client organizations, which is why I wish there would
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be more done to educate the client entities because they don't know that. They
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don't know in a lot of unless they have someone like me, they don't
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know that. They don't know. They're unconsciously incompetent. That's a I like
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that unconsciously. We've spoken about this before. Actually, yeah, they are
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unconsciously incompetent. And that's why a lot of tradesmen, regardless of where they're
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working, will meet a client and that client won't know, they won't know
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that, they don't know any of this stuff. You're doing your best.
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They'll just think you're trying to rip them off. They're not. And that's
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kind of why I enjoy being a client, because I try and be fair
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as a client and not a horrible person. I mean, you're pretty well,
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I mean, very well accomplished. But have you ever been guilty of
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sort of standing still and missing opportunities? Oh? God, yeah, yeah,
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I've turned down some absolute Yeah, I've had loads of people of the
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years. So you set mere an electrical company. I said that, I
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think a couple of months back. I was always too scared to do it.
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And I've had people approach me and say to me, please, could
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you come and do this work? We actually like the conduct of what you
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do, we like the level of detail and analytics that you have, and
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I've always been too scared to do it. And now I kicked myself.
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I'd like to go back in time and beat myself up over a few decisions
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we made. But OK, those as long as you reflect upon them and
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you try and not make them again, then you know less and learn.
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I suppose fixed Radio I'm Thomas and argue with Paul mean and here on the
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Electrical Show, and we are talking about the journey from being an apprentice to
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an electrician. And Paul, let's say you've come into the trade in your
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late teens, which is quite common now more and more people are training later
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on in their life. What in your head does success look like sort of
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ten years on, like late ties as an electrician? How does that?
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That's a really good question. Again, what does success look like? I'm
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going to go back to when I was in my twenties. Success looks like
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your wallet being full. Yeah, I mean yeah, Well when you exp
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you're not going to sit there and go, well, I did this swan
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neck on some conjurit the other day and it was lovely. And I go
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back and visit here every few years. Because I'm talking out of it.
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No, it's actually I was on that job and I owned a fortune,
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and more importantly, I got to wine and die in the Missus. I
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had some good fun times with the lad's life was good. That to me
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is the measure when you're in your young and you're in your twenties, That's
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that is the measure, isn't It's living? All right? Well, look
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Some people might decide that this sort of journey culminates with being a you know,
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you then become a bars and you and then you employ other sparks.
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But that's also just the beginning of another journey, isn't it, Because I
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mean that's a whole world in itself. I mean, that's the world you
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said. That's the journey you said you wanted to take. You're looking back
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at it now, but you haven't. Yeah, well, I kind of
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It's weird. My twenties was I started my journey into being a manager for
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I hate these terms in various large contracting organizations and stuff into the role I
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mean now, which is a client. But yeah, I mean when you're
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in your late twenties, ken, it all depends on what you want.
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I know, lads are quite happy to be sparks, you know, forever.
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It's only when you hit your late thirties and if you're not fit and
18:23
healthy, then your back twinges, in your arm twinges, and you'd start
18:27
going the iron need to get off the tools. But there's no wrong in
18:30
the direction you take because if you're in your mid thirties or late twenties,
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or you're fought in you want to change or become a manager for electrical contractors
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or a site manager, whatever, brilliant. How much experience you've got,
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Look how much experience of install you will be incredibly useful. There are people
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screaming out for experienced people to help. And the thing is as well,
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if you're on a site and you've got trades, you can mold the quality
18:56
expectations to what you want so that it ain't just chuck it in and run
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away. You can actually do saying go, look, lads, we're not
19:03
going to roun on this job. But I want us all to look back
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and when somebody says, watch your favorite job, it was that one.
19:08
Because we've all got jobs that standout a mile and it was always the lads.
19:11
It was always the behaviors of the site management and the work that you
19:14
were able to do. That was what you were most proud of. I
19:15
wired all the pyro on excel Are in ninety eight. I think it was
19:22
ninety nine or something like that, and I still look back all these years
19:25
ago and go, that was the best Piro I've ever done. I was
19:26
up in the freezing cold at night by myself. It was awesome. It
19:30
was a great job, and the blokes were great, the supervisors were great,
19:33
and you had time to do the job well. So yeah, it's
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different, different things for different people. But how many hours have you put
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in to where you've got? I mean, because you've done so much in
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terms of like just constant cp doing CPD. I mean, I was trying
19:52
to think of a better word, but I mean that's the only one I
19:53
could think. Earning just learning too many, To be honest with you,
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I think one year, I actually about three four years ago I started to
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properly, properly record and document it. Like if somebody was listening and they
20:07
wanted to try to get to where you are with that level of knowledge,
20:10
how what have you done to get that? Read? Re read that's it?
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Read, get a highlight a pen. Three years ago, my CPD
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return, which is the stuff I did record, was at eight hundred and
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sixty nine hours. The year after that was about six hundred. This year
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I'm up to about four hundred and then this is a slow year. People
20:27
don't realize, especially in trades, when you open up a I don't know,
20:30
an extract fan you fit in on a site somewhere and you have to
20:33
read that manual. That's learning because you're gonna sit there and go. I
20:37
didn't know that that manufacturer's got specific requirements. I didn't know that. Now
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what we don't do as trades is we don't sit there and go. I
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must fill in my CPD learning log. And the trouble is is post Grenfell,
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we've now become and it is slowly creeping its way in having to declare
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your your continuous learning so that you can at least say, look, I'm
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a tradesman. I'm good at what I'm doing, but I also keep up
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with all the different changes. I do my training, I do my on
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site learning. I keep in touch with what's going on the industry so I
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don't do something wrong. That's a journey that five years ago, if you'd
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have said CPD, I remember doing podcasts five years ago talking about CPD and
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it was just like, well's that then. Now everyone in the industry knows
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what CBD is, So imagine what I'll be in five years, ten years,
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fifteen years. But if you want the knowledge, just go away and
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read. Just literally just go away and read. Pick up a book,
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pick up a standard and read it. There's no secret formula your brain will
21:30
work differently. And I found using a highlight a pen to highlight the words
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that a trademan would want to use is the way of learning standard. So
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you can learn a three hundred paid standard just by highlighting the words that you
21:42
might find useful on site. And that's how I learned most of the standards
21:45
that I know. I mean, just going fractionally off pissed here. We
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were just talking in earlier in the last link about the shortage of apprentices and
21:56
how that's going to be a real issue. I think in years, I
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think it will be such a mad issue. It had an ending issue as
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well, wasn't it. With it? There is a funding issue, and
22:06
I had to get a crown completely after there is a point of this.
22:10
I had to get a crown fitted. I know, my producers like,
22:11
what's he doing. He's going off pissed. There's a point I had to
22:15
get a crown fitted. You know people now go to Turkey to get they
22:18
get this perfect white smile. Well they do it basically by grinding down every
22:22
tooth and giving you a crown. That's that's basically how they do it.
22:25
So all of your teeth they literally just grind all of them down to stumps.
22:29
You basically get a mouthful of crowns. That is how they give you
22:32
this perfect white smile. You just get a mouthful of crowns. And I
22:34
was in the dentist I had one crown fitted and this guy was like,
22:37
because I asked him, I said, how does that make any sense?
22:41
People are just literally they're just grinding all of their teeth away to get them.
22:45
Yeah, and he said it literally in ten years, he said,
22:48
this would be an absolutely cataclysmic scale of people all with basically knackered crowns or
22:56
wanting them taken out. And then of course they can't. They've got them
22:57
for life. Now that's it. So yeah, just when you said apprentice
23:02
isn't about ten years, I was saying about ten years. That's just a
23:03
little story just came down. Yeah. I think in every generation, the
23:10
next one, they see more things. But I think there is a very
23:12
serious industry discussion needs to be had about how do we deliver the infrastructure works
23:18
and maintain the existing infrastructure. And yes, I know there's this whole let's
23:23
introduce new technology to make us greener and more sustainable, get it. But
23:27
you need to have the people skilled installing it, yeah, and maintaining it
23:32
and replacing it. And at the moment I find that there's so much old
23:34
knowledge. A lot of the apprentices I speak to, they'll send me a
23:38
picture of a DNO intake and I'll be able to tell them exactly what it
23:41
is, what year it was made in, and they're not being taught this
23:44
in college. So I have very serious concerns over what the City and Guild
23:49
Syllabuses is choosing to teach youngsters, because it's a perfect example. When I
23:53
went to college first year of college, it was two and a half days
23:56
a week. Now it's one day a week for your first year. So
24:00
we are we have effectively reduced the learning time over those three years of college
24:04
by two thirds. So they're not getting the same education that we got.
24:10
And if there's not enough experienced people on site, they're not getting the apprenticeships
24:14
that we got. But they're still there mitigating it by teaching them health and
24:17
safety. That that doesn't give you people, Yeah, it doesn't give but
24:22
it gives you short terms. Am. It doesn't give you people who can
24:26
put but it's solving the problem when you have an electrician on site, you
24:30
expect them or hope that they will be able to. I know there are
24:33
clients whill go. I've got a sparky so he can do everything for me.
24:36
If I get a new electrician, I want to go and meet him
24:37
and talk to him and say, how can we solve this together? Are
24:41
you okay and doing the work? That sort of thing. Try and show
24:42
them you care that they'll get all the materials and time they need. It's
24:47
not happening in the rest of the world. It's just your sparks. Can't
24:49
you do it? I'll I'll just mug you off and get someone else in.
24:52
And then you get these clients that just rotate electrical contractors like mad and
24:56
that does happen out there. You've seen it, I most certainly have.
25:00
All Right, well, look, let's come back to wrap this up before
25:03
trevn Rich takeover from four pm here on fixed radio, the Bilser's station,
25:10
The Electrical Show on Fixed Radio, and that Good People is about it.
25:14
For today's Electrical Show, we've talked about the journey from being an apprentice to
25:18
a master of the craft. Now, Paul, just quickly before we end,
25:22
what kind of skills, traits and experience. Would you expect an accomplished
25:29
electrician to have What are we looking at? Oh, this is a controversial
25:34
one. I think the necessary skills relevant to the task is probably the generic
25:41
answer. But for me, I need to see what's the word a glint
25:47
in ira. I need to see confidence And it sounds mental, but you
25:52
can have confidence in knowing what to do and also have confidence in knowing what
25:55
to do. But for me, an electrician should be able to effectively electing
26:00
installation, erected installation, inspect it, test it, certify it, hand
26:03
it over and explain it to the next bloke. That's how I was taught.
26:07
And if you can do that, fine, And it's okay to genuinely
26:11
say not everybody knows everything. We're always learning. Every time I have to
26:15
install saving in my house or somewhere else, I'm having to go. I
26:18
didn't know that. That's aing new And look at the trade shows now,
26:22
you know, Alex, You go down to one limb trade shows and there's
26:26
tons of new products on the market. I cannot keep up. I just
26:30
can't. It's impossible. But there's lots more products trying to make it easier
26:33
for us and quicker. But for me, the fundamental bread and butter skills
26:37
is, you know, can you bend, can you select and size a
26:41
cable? Can you protect it? Can you explain it to someone, what's
26:44
basic and additional protection? That sort of stuff. We actually we're bending pieber
26:48
mean, it's a cheap way of doing it, but it's really good.
26:49
We were bending conduit on a former the other day and normally, I mean
26:55
I've always done it. Is if you're trying to pull a ninety or something,
26:57
you'll you'll pull it upwards and then you sort of get it roughly what
27:00
you think it is. Have a look at you. Yeah, take it
27:03
out the former and he's a smidge more, put it back in, click
27:06
it a bit more, and he had the digital Yeah. Jack, he's
27:11
almost literally's an apprentice, be virtually out of his time now as a spark
27:14
and he literally he had its magnetic angle finder and he just put it on
27:18
the consu it, pulled it up, got it to ninety bang, took
27:21
it straight out and it was perfect. And I was like, I looked
27:22
at it. I was like, that's a really clever, time saving way
27:26
of doing it. And to be fair to him, it was a better
27:29
method. All right, I was doing it bye, but it actually took
27:32
me longer. He got it right first time. See, that's a great
27:34
tool. But in my day it was a set square, so you just
27:37
held up a fixed ninety degree piece and that was it. But yeah,
27:41
I've seen that tool. They're phenomenal. I think Amazon stuff really so it's
27:45
like literally seventeen twenty quid. They're brilliant. Yeah I cannot buy one.
27:48
Nope, well worth it. Areas of outstanding beauty is what I've got on
27:52
my crib sheet or AOB anything else we'd like to discuss standing beauty. I
27:59
saw on the crib sheet and the first time I saw it because that's area
28:02
of outs down in beauty. But yeah, AOB any other business. Not
28:06
really for me to want to say, well, I actually know the I
28:08
think because there's so many different people who listen to this in different journeys.
28:12
The only thing I can say to the apprentices is enjoy it as mad as
28:18
that sounds, because there will be some of them going through hell. Ye,
28:19
don't be afraid to ask for help. Social media's got some great people
28:23
helping apprentices on it. Yeah, just don't be afraid to ask questions and
28:27
to be honest with you know you're bloody worth, but know when you're being
28:30
bullied and treated really badly. And and I know it's really hard because some
28:36
of the colleges offersited this year have absolutely broke my heart speaking to some of
28:38
the guys because I'm finding I'm going to colleges now and there are more and
28:42
more people who aren't being given a chance. So my final thought is to
28:48
the electrical contractors, give apprentices a chance. There are industry's future. You
28:52
ain't winning work, you ain't growing about them. Perfectly well said. I
28:55
couldn't agree more. You can hear the show again from ten o'clock right here
28:59
on fixed rates. If you missed any of it, You can also download
29:02
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29:06
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29:14
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