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Atlantic Coast Conference Deep Dive · Others Receiving Votes

0:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, welcome to the show.
0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Others are receiving votes.
0:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Some Pat 40 joined us always by Brian Fisher and Kevin Swenney.
0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: My sports illustrated at slashside.com colleagues.
0:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're gonna do something a little bit different for the next few weeks.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that time of year.
0:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's complete month.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also not much happening month, which is why complaints tend to fill the vacuum.
0:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But so what we're gonna do
0:32
[SPEAKER_00]: As the major conferences have their spring meetings, we're going to do a like state of the conference show for each of the four power conferences.
0:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we will probably tack one on at the end that's like Notre Dame, Paloza, plus the other conferences, including the zombie pack 12, which is come back to life and others.
0:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're starting
1:00
[SPEAKER_00]: this little theme, I guess you would say, with the ACC, as they are meeting beginning today, Monday, May 11th.
1:10
[SPEAKER_00]: In.
1:11
[SPEAKER_00]: drum roll please, Amelia Island Florida at the Ritz Carlton.
1:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember nobody has enough money in college sports.
1:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the bottom line.
1:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody is scrambling for dollars, but check out where all of these spring meetings are happening.
1:28
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll just start with that one.
1:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll touch on every one of these meetings and where they are located as we go along.
1:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So Ritz Carlton,
1:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys, the interesting times in the ACC, a year ago, it's kind of like, ah, they're gonna make it two years ago, really was, are they gonna make it?
1:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So far they're making it, but what exactly is the state of the conference?
1:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Where does it sit in the National Higher Arke?
1:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And is it trending up or down or steady?
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian, what's your read on the big picture?
2:05
[SPEAKER_00]: 35,000 foot view of the ACC.
2:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, it's always interesting these time of year, you know, being in the Ritz Carlton's and some of the other places that are even nicer than that at some other conference meetings.
2:19
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, it is a good time to connect as a conference.
2:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the South Sea seemed very valuable for a lot of the administrators that go to the coaches that go to these things, because there's a lot going on in college athletics.
2:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And the ACC is right in the thick of it, right?
2:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, you talk about, they've kind of gotten over realignment at this point.
2:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think they they fully integrated the the likes of Calen stands for it in SMU into the league and they do feel like more ACC schools at this point, but you know, it's still kind of it seems like a conference caught in the middle, you know, and in terms of you have the pressures kind of above them from the big 10 and the SEC and certainly some of the schools that have been agitating to kind of get up back up into that group, they're fresh off those
3:00
[SPEAKER_02]: all the legal wrangling from Clemson and Florida State last year that finally got settled and hopefully put behind them.
3:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But it just seems like it's a conference that's also facing pressure from below as well.
3:12
[SPEAKER_02]: In terms of how do you amalgamate this coast to coast conference that has a lot of different schools with a lot of different backgrounds and a lot of different focuses both athletically and academically.
3:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's the big challenge for me as you see it's it's a league that's kind of been been bolted on You know, you got certain parts bolted on and trying to adjust to that.
3:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a it's fascinating test case You know in college athletics of surviving and advancing to the next day, but but we'll see What the old what what ultimately the ACC has has in hand, but it seems like a one of those league caught in the middle With the pressure from above and then pressure from below as well
3:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also think you just start to feel as the money has skyrocketed for the SEC and the Big 10 and the gap has grown.
3:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think as we hit a couple of years into revshare several years into NIL at this point.
4:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you start to feel in the ACC maybe a little bit of pressure of like we know we need to keep up with the Jones's paying players.
4:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's harder for us to raise the dollars because we're not starting at 70.
4:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We're starting at 30 or wherever it is.
4:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you feel that in basketball certainly maybe not for Duke, but for, you know, some of the middle tier programs that have a lot of aspiration.
4:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the Syracuse is of the world, et cetera.
4:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think Pittsburgh and not firing Jeff cable is a good illustration of that.
4:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and then obviously in football, I think you feel that as well with with with the Florida state so the world and and and how are we keeping up we have we have the expectation we always have expected to be at the level of the elite and we don't have it's going to be harder for us to keep up financially with the with the elite and college sports right now I think that's the challenge that the ACC faces as as we head towards maybe a second round of realignment here on 2030 but for now it seems like at least there's a little more stability and you can try to solve those problems internally.
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: over the next couple years before before that next wave comes.
5:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think there are solid number three at this point.
5:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, they're well behind one and two, which is the big 10 and SEC in that order at this moment.
5:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think they're ahead of the big 12.
5:27
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not far ahead of the big 12, but they're ahead.
5:32
[SPEAKER_00]: They get, they survive, right?
5:34
[SPEAKER_00]: They avoided the nuclear option after being sued by Florida State and Clemson.
5:39
[SPEAKER_00]: They patch that up.
5:41
[SPEAKER_00]: They went with an uneven and revenue share agreement, which I still don't think is a very good idea, especially if it is truly success-based fine.
5:50
[SPEAKER_00]: When it's ratings-based, as part of it is, I think that's a bad idea.
5:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Florida State has been hot garbage on the football field for two straight years and is probably caching the biggest revenue check.
6:02
[SPEAKER_00]: part of that they they earned by being very good years before that 2022 and 2023 especially, but still I think you're rewarding the wrong things there and they did that in an attempt to keep the house together.
6:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Is the house further splitting with Duke's Amazon deal with its non-conference games?
6:24
[SPEAKER_00]: That's another element to this.
6:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Another place that has most favored
6:32
[SPEAKER_00]: and the issue of whether everybody in this league is in it together or not continues, I think, to kind of simmer underneath.
6:43
[SPEAKER_00]: For now, look, I think you sit there and you say, we're number three, and we're trending up a little bit, because look what Miami didn't football.
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: They made it to the national championship game, and we're very competitive in that game, and getting Miami up off the mat was hugely important.
6:58
[SPEAKER_00]: basketball, Duke has had some ghastly finishes to the season, but is one of the top, you know, two, three, four year in your out brands right now in the 2020s in basketball.
7:10
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got some underachievers in both football and basketball and we'll get to those in a minute.
7:14
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think in general, if you're sitting down there in Amelia Island saying, how are we doing?
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're at least realistic about being behind the ACC, the SEC,
7:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's get into it a little bit here about the foot from a football perspective.
7:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Water the league strength, let's start there.
7:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian, where's this league hanging?
7:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hat right now from a football standpoint.
7:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, you have teams that are spending in football and that's been a big change.
7:45
[SPEAKER_02]: For the ACC in general, I think that has been the most notable change under Jim Phillips these last couple of years.
7:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Is the league has finally taken football seriously, which I don't think you could have said
7:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's still certainly some schools that are still a little bit of a laggerton in that respect.
8:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But you are seeing obviously Miami making it to the National Championship gate.
8:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is first and foremost.
8:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You have football syndric programs that continue to want to spend like those peers in the big 10 in the SEC, places like Florida State and Clinton, that do think football first and foremost.
8:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You're seeing, you know, Louisville come along.
8:20
[SPEAKER_02]: You're seeing SMU certainly making the playoff a couple of years ago, right in their
8:26
[SPEAKER_02]: you're seeing other situations too, I think Cal and Stanford have started to take, you know, spending on football, spending on football or rosters more particularly, a lot more seriously.
8:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You're seeing, now you need a question, well, they've spent it in terms of North Carolina, but you could understand the change from a university standpoint to take football more seriously.
8:45
[SPEAKER_02]: At that school, obviously Duke winning the league and sweeping both the football men's basketball and women's basketball titles.
8:52
[SPEAKER_02]: This past season like that, that was a big thing for that school.
8:55
[SPEAKER_02]: and they've certainly dipped their toes into spending in the transfer market.
8:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So, it's not fair yet, and certainly the depth of programs is not there, compared to some of their peers, even especially in the big 12, which they're gonna be directly compared to, but they have national championship caliber programs that could win CFP titles.
9:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's something you could probably question in terms of the big 12 at this point.
9:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, that the ACC has, you know, there's no Miami in the big 12.
9:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's something that I think that is is working for the league.
9:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think from the athletic directors from the coaches themselves from, you know, even the even the president's there is kind of a realization that you have to be football first in this environment.
9:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And the ACC has finally come around to that.
9:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's good for the league in general when it comes to everything going on with with football.
9:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, look, we're Clemson and Florida State and North Carolina have been the last couple of years for the fact that the agency can still look back and say we had a team play for the national championship.
9:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's a good, it's a great sign, right?
10:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, that, that I think is makes you feel good about where things are.
10:05
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing I would point out, and I think Brian summarized it well otherwise.
10:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the SMU edition, which was sort of questioned and maybe laughed at a little bit just financially, has been a really positive thing, especially for football and the league.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
10:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess they, they handed out a, a not great loss, uh, I guess, nearly, you know, kind of take in Miami out in some senses, but at the same time, I think SMU is proven to be a very solid program to add to this league, uh, and help keep things afloat as some of the bigger brands and the conference have, have ebb didn't float, and I think from that perspective, I think you feel pretty good about what SMU can bring to the league.
10:43
[SPEAKER_01]: moving forward, especially as they continue to get their kind of feet under them as a true power conference program.
10:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it was really a pretty good off-season in terms of retention for the ACC.
10:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Start with the coaches, rent lastly, still at SMU.
11:00
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people thought he might be going to Arkansas or somewhere else.
11:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Brent, he is still a Georgia Tech.
11:05
[SPEAKER_00]: He was highly thought of by some people that were hiring.
11:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Jeff Brom is still at Louisville.
11:11
[SPEAKER_00]: He had some down against his elsewhere.
11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
11:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You retained three very good successful coaches, and yes, to your point, SMU.
11:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I would argue that SMU is the biggest university winner of realignment of the 2020 so far.
11:29
[SPEAKER_00]: They have maximized, they've made the biggest jump up, and have maximized that opportunity better than anybody.
11:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say BYU might be a close second, but going to the playoff,
11:40
[SPEAKER_00]: In 2024, go to the NCAA Tournament last year in Men's Basketball.
11:46
[SPEAKER_00]: They paid for it, literally, they bought their way in, but they're backing up the money so far.
11:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Additionally, I think they added a couple of good coaches, James Franklin Virginia Tech is in that ad.
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see about Tosh Rupoy at Cal, but I think that can be in that ad.
12:05
[SPEAKER_00]: They certainly need it a change at Cal.
12:10
[SPEAKER_00]: after years of being just a little above 500.
12:13
[SPEAKER_00]: The quarterback retention in the league, Dary and men's still in the league.
12:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Duke didn't retain him, but Miami got him a little lawsuit involved there in a settlement, but
12:23
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... can be a potential star cj barely staying in North Carolina state Kevin Jennings and SMU jaron kiaway seven portelli at cal mason henchle at hit i think they did a good job keeping some town of quarterbacks there Miami uh... having marked flutcher in malachi toni back on the escal position players i think really sets them up well they've got
12:48
[SPEAKER_00]: some holes to fill on the lines, but boy, oh boy, can they be explosive?
12:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So I look at what what is what the lead kept in place and I think that they put themselves in a good position.
13:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So pretty good year of retention there.
13:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Now what are the weaknesses from a football standpoint?
13:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Kevin, what we start with you here?
13:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mentioned it off the top, like GEA, I have to have your best programs competing at the highest level, right?
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, last year's Clemson season, a big disappointment.
13:21
[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked a lot about Florida State in the last several weeks, and I think, obviously, that's a situation that is tenuous at best for Mike Norbelle and certainly not producing at the level.
13:31
[SPEAKER_01]: all that they expect ever since that undefeated season.
13:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the Carolina investment is great but the Carolina football product is not very good at the moment.
13:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that
13:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you do wonder how much maybe some of the rises of here comes Georgia Tech here comes SMU etc.
13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: are driven by the fact that there has been this vacuum like how great have those programs been versus how mediocre has some of the rest of the conference bin and I think look at.
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: At the end of the day, it's great that Florida State's making money because they're on TV and people are watching their games.
14:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But like Florida State's going to need to start making some money by winning some football games.
14:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, for the Miami's of the world, for the other teams that are looking to be competitive at the highest level in this sport week, they need marquee games.
14:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the worry, and I think we'd probably say this about the big 12 in the reason that the big 12 is number four, as you put it pad, is that
14:30
[SPEAKER_01]: There's just a lot of blah, you know, it's like, oh, look, Oklahoma state's playing today.
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I was too, who's excited about this, right?
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you were you getting to that spot?
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, good.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got the Wake Forest pit game on the CW.
14:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what are we doing with this?
14:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you, you were getting that spot quickly.
14:46
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can't have some monsters with the Florida states in Miami, so the world.
14:51
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of catch up for a lot of these programs and it's what do you say that I mean like I feel like if any program deserves to be branded as the CW program and it's Wake and pit because it doesn't seem like every Saturday or in that 330 CW window or whatever it is, it seems like they are regular in that
15:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Package and I mean, that's part of the problem too.
15:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You know like in terms of like actually tapping out and and maximizing investments and maximizing You your donor basis.
15:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's tough for some of these schools.
15:20
[SPEAKER_02]: You know just in terms of you know what I mean Wake for us is the small school and and all of FBS right you know in terms of you know Student enrollment what they have to tap into yes.
15:29
[SPEAKER_02]: They have some some wealthy donors and whatnot, but you know getting enough of them
15:32
[SPEAKER_02]: to start investing in your program how it needs to be like that's that's a big challenge you know at a lot of these places you know and frankly you know a lot of these schools are just having to play catch up to not spinning on on certain programs especially in football these last really the last decade plus you know you
15:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Syracuse having to constantly reinvent the wheel and it seems like they've never been able to get over that hump kind of like they were You know, certainly back in like the 90s.
15:56
[SPEAKER_02]: You know other programs are trying to play catch up as fast as they can but you know There's a kind of a limit in terms of how you can kind of slowly Churn those gears over as as an institution I think that's probably the biggest challenge for you know a lot of these schools, you know moving forward and
16:10
[SPEAKER_02]: maybe that limits the league.
16:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It certainly makes things more interesting in terms of kind of that middle of the pack and really anybody can kind of rise up from year to year, but at the end of the day providing a challenge, providing a platform for some of the others that are capable of really carrying that flag into the CFP, you know, is kind of the big thing for the ACN.
16:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Not having, you know, Florida State Clemson performing to what their resources would say they are certainly investing
16:38
[SPEAKER_02]: these last couple of years, that's going to be the big thing for them moving forward.
16:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm here for that CW 330 slot, man.
16:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, when you, when you call when you fire up the YouTube quad box, you inevitably get that game in there, you know, you want, you may I want it, but you're going to get it.
16:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, by God, give me that wake pit game or
17:02
[SPEAKER_00]: way Virginia.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I did SMU wake was maybe like the worst football game I've ever watched.
17:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:08
[SPEAKER_01]: There was like nine, there was a possession change every minute.
17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It was always a turnover.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: No one could score.
17:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a wild football game and perfect for the CW.
17:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect for the CW.
17:18
[SPEAKER_00]: That is CW programming, right there.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we want, what we need.
17:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I mean, to me, I think the weakness is right now or fairly glaring and it is the Florida state malaise and it is Clemson slide.
17:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Both those seats can be reversed.
17:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe quickly, maybe soon.
17:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But for the two programs that had put themselves out in front,
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: completely justifiably or not.
17:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It's at least in Florida states, uh, case.
17:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, they've got to live up to it.
17:53
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got to back it up.
17:54
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got to do better.
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: We, you know, seven and six from Clemson, no good.
17:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Florida's Florida state in the last nine seasons is 56 and 54.
18:03
[SPEAKER_00]: they had a run of mediocre, then they had two great seasons and then they've been flat out bad after that.
18:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that they're still kind of anchored with Mike Norwell there is an issue.
18:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see how long they're anchored to him.
18:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Mid season, I don't know, depends how things go, but I don't have a lot of faith in
18:24
[SPEAKER_00]: the roster rebuild.
18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: They played a lot of freshmen.
18:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe those guys step up and do better.
18:30
[SPEAKER_00]: They retained douce Robinson.
18:31
[SPEAKER_00]: White receivers really good.
18:33
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not sold on the quarterback action Daniels who is at Stanford and then Auburn and I'm not sold on Mike Norville and the latest
18:43
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, rebooting of the coordinators and what they've got going on there.
18:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So they need Florida State.
18:49
[SPEAKER_00]: They need Clemson one thing.
18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that they have that the ACC has going for it and certainly helped it last year.
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Those games against Notre Dame because Miami beating Notre Dame was the
19:01
[SPEAKER_00]: the price of admission to the playoff.
19:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And they get chance to play them again.
19:05
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to play them in South Bend in November, which will be interesting.
19:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But those games against Notre Dame give you a chance to really buttress your non-conference profile and to get some big wins outside.
19:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Some games, those games are never being on CW at 330 because they're big opportunities for the
19:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Plenty to do there yet.
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you guys are right.
19:32
[SPEAKER_00]: They're spending more on football.
19:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody is spending more on football.
19:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody is trying in football.
19:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Not everybody's going to succeed.
19:38
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the way it goes.
19:40
[SPEAKER_00]: The North Carolina thing will be fascinating this year.
19:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Year two of bellachick.
19:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got to get better if it doesn't, you know, that could fall apart in a hurry.
19:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But.
19:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Beyond Miami, who else is stepping up this year?
19:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there are several candidates, but it would sure help them if two of the candidates turn out to be Florida State and Clemson.
20:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, let's take a look at basketball.
20:07
[SPEAKER_00]: League, strengths, and basketball, Kevin, go.
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it was, it was in really dire straits in 2025.
20:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, they get four bits of the instability tournament out of 18.
20:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I think eight teams were outside the top 100 in Ken Palm.
20:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a disaster.
20:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And bounce back really nicely this past year with eight.
20:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, you know, look, no conference felt the kind of moeter ship transition of all these older elite coaches than the ACC.
20:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you lost.
20:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Coach K and Tony Bennett and Roy Williams and Jim Bayheim and Rick Patino and Jim Laranega and you know, the list goes on and on right and you know that was always going to be difficult to deal with but I think a lot of those those places didn't necessarily stick the landing with their with their new hires and or one of the spot where those guys just ten years dipped towards the end like Tony Bennett didn't win and so a tournament game after
21:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Leonard Hamilton's Florida State teams kind of flopped down the stretch.
21:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Lerenaga had a brutal final year before calling it quits at Christmas.
21:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was a difficult place to be Syracuse hasn't gotten back.
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the positive is, again, you double your bids in year one.
21:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You make some really nice hires.
21:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, J. Lucas has done a great job so far at Miami.
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a program on the upward swing.
21:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Ryan Odom has been phenomenal.
21:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Early at Virginia 30 wins in year one.
21:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't ask for anything better than that.
21:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Louisville and Pat Kelsey that obviously had to get right, and I think they've been good.
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: They haven't been elite, but I think all things considered after the Kenny Payne debacle to win 51 games in two years.
21:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to feel great about that outcome for a little basketball, and we'll see if they can get back to competing for championships here in the near future.
21:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, NC State gets bumped with the Will Wade thing.
22:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That wasn't ideal.
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see if Syracuse can get it going with Jerry McNamara.
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel pretty good about that.
22:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Jerry's really sharp and really smart.
22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of the day, this looked really bad about a year ago at this time, and now there's some real momentum and some really good young coaches to go with John Shire and Duke, which has been the best program in the country the last couple years.
22:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It just hasn't won the big one in the Antsible tournament.
22:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, the winning is program last three years for sure, and then, you know, just not with the trophy cabinet to kind of show for it in terms of bringing in all that talent and look there, they're going to be continuing to be right there as far as one of the elite programs and so I think when you have that, you know, you have at least something to kind of build off, but I think it's also been pretty apparent when, you know, Duke only loses two games in the last two years in conference play that is an issue.
22:52
[SPEAKER_02]: you know that that's that's not any kind of sign of of conference strength and especially you know given how Duke has also run through the the conference tournaments I mean this has been a very top heavy leak and uh you know I think the biggest issue certainly is it's been North Carolina not kind of pulling their weight and we'll see if that ultimately gets turned around I know we'll talk about the kind of the the subtraction issues they're going forward but you know it is it is an improving league basketball
23:16
[SPEAKER_02]: and obviously there's so many fans out there, administrators that do live and breathe this sport.
23:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think if anybody can't figure that out to get back to producing the majority of the conference going to the NCAA tournament and having more bids, it's going to be the ACC.
23:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you're starting to see that.
23:34
[SPEAKER_02]: In addition, some of the investments that we've seen on the football side, you're starting to see it in basketball now.
23:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think others are coming around to that.
23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be interesting.
23:43
[SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be a little bit more of a push pull in terms of where those resources are being invested nowadays around the ACC programs.
23:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But you can understand, you know, look, just look at Louisville going into this upcoming season and what they've been able to do.
23:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think Pat Kelsey, after the depths of the Kenny Payner, you know, to not only turn around that program, but to really make them a national contender these last couple of years that he's been able to do that.
24:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a big positive for the league to have
24:09
[SPEAKER_02]: to what Duke is doing is good and I think that's something for the ACC to continue to build on.
24:14
[SPEAKER_02]: They've obviously changed to their conference schedule and reduced that a little bit, done more things out of conference and going to certain MTEs for a lot of these programs that they've been able to find more success this past season.
24:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's another kind of positive moment of story for the ACC, but it's not where they want to be ultimately.
24:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that they made coaching changes that had to be made.
24:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Some tough ones where you're telling he were Davis and his alma mater, on a guy that took, you know, with Carolina the final four, four years ago that he's gotta go.
24:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You're telling Adrian Autrie was the hand-picked successor to Jim Bayhide, he's gotta go.
24:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Not pleasant, but had to happen.
24:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Boston College made a change.
24:54
[SPEAKER_00]: George, a tech made a change.
24:56
[SPEAKER_00]: All those places,
24:59
[SPEAKER_00]: have historically had some great times in basketball and should be good.
25:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And especially, I think you's the first two, Carolina obviously, but Syracuse as well.
25:09
[SPEAKER_00]: That has been a major, I think missing element to the league is having Syracuse being really good again.
25:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think would help so much.
25:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think Jerry McNamara has a great chance to make that happen.
25:22
[SPEAKER_00]: There was embarrassment at NC State with their coaching
25:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the off seasons for Louisville Miami, Virginia, I think, you know, they did what they needed to do in terms of either adding players or player retention and they had very good seasons last year.
25:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Kevin, you mentioned I think Jay Lucas Hires looking phenomenal so far for Miami and really excited to see what they put on the floor here again this next year they've got places that are going to spend I mean Louisville is prime example that.
25:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to, they level wants to be a top five program basketball and expect itself to be.
26:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they're going to spend like it.
26:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will see if Pat Kelsey can put the product on the floor to get some air.
26:09
[SPEAKER_00]: They have improved dramatically is first year and then again year over year, second year.
26:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So can they keep that going?
26:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Can they take the next step?
26:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Can they be a sweet 16 final eight final four kind of team?
26:21
[SPEAKER_00]: will find that out.
26:22
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, I think that with the amount of underachieving that have been going on in the league, they've set themselves up to turn it around and to be one of those leagues that's not getting five, six, seven, eight bids, but gets nine, 10, 11, especially in this glorious New Era with a thousand bids for everybody, hooray.
26:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's another rant for another day.
26:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe you did that last week.
26:45
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, weakness is where's the league,
26:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, we we talked about kind of the the glut and that's in football and that's very real in basketball right now, right, I don't know how committed Georgia tech is to any in basketball Boston college is Boston college, you know, or Dame is spending every dollar.
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got on foot on its football team and it's struggling to make it true is very wake forest plays the cheapest basketball roster in the power conferences for next year.
27:21
[SPEAKER_01]: things get difficult.
27:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's been certainly the story for, you know, the two big, kind of big East basketball schools that ended up joining in Syracuse and Pittsburgh, right?
27:30
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been in that bottom tier far too often.
27:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, they have to get it right.
27:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I think as we as we mentioned, I think with GMAC, it's it's a little there's a clear
27:40
[SPEAKER_01]: vision, then where Pittsburgh ran a basketball coaching search this spring.
27:45
[SPEAKER_01]: They just elected not to end up using it.
27:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They they they they talked to a lot of people.
27:49
[SPEAKER_01]: They did a lot of work behind the scenes on who is going to replace Jeff K. Paul and they realized that there's nobody we can get that's worth us buying out Jeff K. Paul.
27:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want another year Jeff, you can be here and so.
27:59
[SPEAKER_01]: They're very much stuck in the mud.
28:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they have to get those programs right.
28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look, even Louisville, I mean, Louisville made it to the second weekend the first year being in the ACC under Patino, since then, they have not made a second weekend of the NCAA tournament.
28:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So the ACC has not gotten the best version of Louisville basketball by any stretch.
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think, again, with the situation,
28:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, financially, that the ACCs and compared to its peers, it's really hard to be spending big in both, right?
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you, like look, Tennessee has a 20 million dollar basketball roster or they're about, they're also, I presume it's been an quite a bit on their football team, right?
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: If Syracuse was going to try to find a way to get to a $20 million basketball roster, I imagine their football roster would suffer quite heavily, right?
28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the way that the money continues to escalate.
28:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's been challenging for some of these ACC schools that are trying to be good at both.
28:57
[SPEAKER_01]: to be really good in either.
28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a difficult place to be, right?
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: If Syracuse has the 50th best men's basketball budget for their roster, I mean, they're probably going to get 50th level results.
29:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And that won't make people very happy long term.
29:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's there's the problem and the disconnect between the brands that we know, especially in basketball compared to what they actually are, you know, nowadays, like I mean, you mentioned Georgia Tech, I'd throw a Notre Dame in there in particular, like I mean, that's there's no way that that program should be as bad in basketball and these see as as they have been these less, you know,
29:30
[SPEAKER_02]: What really lasts 10 years almost, you know, I mean, yes, there were some some heights there in the Mike Ray era and certainly, you know, they had their moments, but in terms of the consistent success at least like no today, that wake for a step certainly Syracuse is we've been talking about I mean, there's there's no reason for for them to be this bad and so maybe this maybe there is some some jolting out, you know, I do think the administrative made some pretty good hires in terms of coaches, they're they're trying to pull things out, but
29:54
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it is going to come down to that commitment and, you know, Kevin, you're spot on in terms of balancing that for a lot of these schools.
30:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I think it'll be interesting to see, you know, what is it, where is Virginia Tech?
30:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, where is that in the hierarchy of these programs moving forward?
30:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's something that, you know, the school itself is trying to sort of as they make these big investments in football.
30:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, where does basketball fit into that?
30:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's, that's a league-wide issue, you know, that the ACC is having to sort out and deal with is
30:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we want to be football first, because we know understand where the dollars are going and where we get that return on investment.
30:30
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's just such a rich history in terms of basketball that I think a lot of fans are going to be a little bit upset if you go, you go a couple of years for that, Missing the NCAA tournament.
30:39
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a big issue in the ACC territory and something that both the conference office and a lot of these schools are having to sort out with in terms of where we actually direct those investments.
30:53
[SPEAKER_00]: in the middle, as we've kind of labeled the ACC here, it is, you where do you allocate your resources, where can you succeed?
31:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you try to do a little of everything, you probably do a lot of nothing.
31:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm thinking about the Bayeris School Stanford and Cal.
31:12
[SPEAKER_00]: they're they're just kind of there so far in football and basketball both.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not NCAA tournament teams in basketball.
31:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not factoring into the football races.
31:22
[SPEAKER_00]: They may pull a few upsets perhaps partially due to teams that are jet lag from flying to the West Coast.
31:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But
31:28
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just kind of there.
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Florida State right now is treading water.
31:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the loop allowed high, high and basketball could turn out good.
31:37
[SPEAKER_00]: They got much better as the season went along last year.
31:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, how much are they going to donate to a devotee in terms of financial resources at a football center at school?
31:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you've got that Notre Dame you guys mentioned.
31:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Pit, wait for us, Virginia Tech,
31:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Those, they've had success in basketball, but can they have it and still put all the eggs in that they want to put in in football?
32:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are tough decisions that the administration's going to have to make.
32:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of them are probably just going to say we're all in on football.
32:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll write it out and just see where we land in basketball.
32:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's definitely a sign of the times there.
32:17
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, this I threw this one in because it's something I would throw in.
32:23
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the tent pole Olympic sport?
32:25
[SPEAKER_00]: We are going to touch on that stuff a little bit sorry and this little series that we're doing.
32:31
[SPEAKER_00]: The answer for the ACC is almost all of them.
32:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a phenomenal Olympic sport conference.
32:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It was already really good adding Stanford and Cal made it that much better.
32:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Outside of like a hockey, which they don't play, other than B.C.
32:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Notre Dame, that it is they're they're good at almost everything and we're going to see I think they have three of the top six right now in the Leerfield Cup standings.
32:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Seven of the top 20.
32:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Six in the top 13 Stanford's on top and may well get that crown back this year.
33:04
[SPEAKER_00]: They, um, they, they want it like every year for like 25 years and all the pandemic came.
33:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Things change.
33:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Texas started winning it right now.
33:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Stanford is on top and I would be kind of surprised if they don't end up winning the Lairfield Cup.
33:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I want those sports to continue to succeed.
33:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them to be funded and in the ACC, they're in really good shape there.
33:32
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, guys, how secure is the commissioner?
33:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Jim Phillips, wonderful man, great guy.
33:39
[SPEAKER_00]: How does he stand as commissioner Brian?
33:41
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
33:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, massive ups up there for you not not to just specifically say swimming for the ACC.
33:48
[SPEAKER_02]: You're you're back.
33:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
33:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, first and second for Jimmy's paper.
33:55
[SPEAKER_02]: As for Jimmy, like I I think he's well respected around the league.
33:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he sees finally found his, you know, sea legs is not dealing with lawsuits and all the craziness going on.
34:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think it's much more of a
34:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to say fully cool my type of league, but I think he's definitely made strides there and I know there are certain segments of certain fan bases that you do not appreciate his commissionership, but I think on on the whole things things have been pretty stable and and certainly given the the external challenges, the comfort office has faced.
34:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's navigated them.
34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, pretty well.
34:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And certainly put the ACC in a better position to succeed than say early in his tenure and even five ten years ago, you know, where the conference was.
34:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's it's pretty positive.
34:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't think it's they're ready to to run them out of the building.
34:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they're just everybody in in the entire league.
34:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And given their, you know, you're talking about schools from all over the country and vastly different positions in terms of what they want.
34:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, there might be some some floor state fans, some Miami fans, some comes to fans that think,
34:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of holding these, you see back a little bit, but I think in terms of actually managing such a diverse, you know, cast of characters, if you will, in terms of these schools, you know, small private schools, big state institutions, you know, schools that in major metropolitan areas and others in very small, you know, college towns, like it's it can be a difficult league to actually manage and get your hands around and
35:16
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a people person and I think he has connected with a lot of people throughout the ACC footprint and done a pretty good job that and you know, there's certainly some challenging waters ahead and that's going to be the ultimate test of him as a commissioner, but I would say overall pretty positive and moving forward.
35:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you can understand where the league is and be happy with having them as they're commissioner.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I would say he's a dying breed, but I definitely think you feel the transition and what the resumes look like for people in these roles, and it is not what Jim Phillips's resume is now.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Jim Phillips is a lifetime college athletics administrator, he got an earth Western going.
35:56
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the AD there for most of my time at Northwestern, did a phenomenal job, like that's not the Brett, you are Mark, Tony, Petiti, you know, even AD searches now.
36:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you see this, you know, with the Miami AD job, like people want business guys, they want revenue generators,
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: et cetera, et cetera.
36:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that is probably the risk for Jim.
36:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably that things kind of come around on him from that standpoint and it'd be say, we need someone who's aggressive, who's think, but quite frankly, to me, it's exactly what you need and I think for college sports, it's good to have a voice who's like, a college sports life for in this thing.
36:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And he certainly is that.
36:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think he's done very well to navigate through tremendous up people, you know, when it looked like the league was fragile, like it could be poached, he managed to convince people on expansion, which I think did need to happen.
36:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, you can still say Stanford and Cal are not adding a lot in terms of the revenue sports.
37:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I still think you had to get him and get SMU.
37:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a net positive.
37:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm not a fan of the uneven revenue distribution, but it's probably a step that they had to do the, you know, the, the fact that he can still keep a room together that was as fractious as the ACCs was speaks, I think, well for his interpersonal relationships and and the personal dynamics involved there.
37:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So I agree.
37:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, yes, we need, we need,
37:33
[SPEAKER_00]: more lifetime administrators.
37:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I think with decision making and put as opposed to less and more guys that are like, you know, here's where your profit margin needs to be better.
37:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm tired of those guys.
37:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see them making the product better.
37:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, at least not right now.
37:50
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, which school swings the biggest stick within the league?
37:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's who's the boss, Kevin?
37:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great question because, you know, I think the loudest are certainly the Florida States and the Miami's.
38:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that Carolina and Duke will have a lot to say, particularly Carolina as we head towards Torchary, and there's been a lot to talk that.
38:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Carolina could be maybe the best asset still available because of the brand because of the major markets, it's near, et cetera.
38:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do think it a lot of ways.
38:24
[SPEAKER_01]: If Carolina can start winning, it's certainly, it will swing a bigger stick, but it just cares pretty big one now, I would say.
38:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if we asked this question 15 years ago, you would automatically go into, you know, Duke and North Carolina, just the tobacco road, you know, center gravity in this league, we was so strong, but it definitely has shifted.
38:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's going to be curious to see for my perspective, like, where things go from here, you know.
38:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Clemson's present was hugely influential in the league in the CFP and just kind of in journal national matters he's retiring obviously you have a change over at Miami in terms of that administration New AD is going to come in you know who who's speaking up for Miami Florida State probably loud the most loud program if you will
39:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be Florida State just in terms of the saber rattling that they've done and how aggressive they've been, but, you know, you probably could circle those three is kind of the focus, especially in football, but do not overlook certainly influence of Duke and North Carolina, both historically and just like, you know, just in general, I think recently, you know, they've they've been speaking up in these matters, they've been more of a follower than a true leader, but, um,
39:33
[SPEAKER_02]: they have some significant sway in the ACC and I think that's going to continue to be the case.
39:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think there are others.
39:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't think SMU is necessarily taking a back seat despite coming into the league.
39:46
[SPEAKER_02]: They're probably a little bit quieter about things that they want to accomplish.
39:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But they're not going to be told no by anybody given the folks at that school.
39:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think they're probably going to be even more aggressive moving forward.
39:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you're going to see
39:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Certainly, some leadership transitions at other schools.
40:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Virginia Tech is going through a wholesale leadership change.
40:03
[SPEAKER_02]: How does that impact their status within the league?
40:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I'm very interesting kind of times for the ACC, but I definitely circle Climps and Miami Florida State as kind of the ring leaders of everybody and then Duke North Carolina being kind of the quiet partners in that in terms of running the league.
40:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's pretty good characterization of it.
40:24
[SPEAKER_00]: We do have some major AD transition there by the cutting hammers on the way out at North Carolina Dan Rattacove, which is on the way out of Miami.
40:31
[SPEAKER_00]: She's mentioned Virginia Tech as well.
40:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in terms of like the stability there, I think like Carl Williams is a very important voice at Virginia in the place where right now for their athletics is doing
40:44
[SPEAKER_00]: really good things in a lot of areas.
40:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Miami, to me, has the opportunity, I think, to really continue to exert itself there.
40:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I expect them to be the best team to football again this year.
40:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're really good basketball.
41:01
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got, depending how the transition goes from radical, which they've gotten incredibly energetic, persuasive.
41:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Business oriented president whom who wants to to make an impact there.
41:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think Miami is kind of the school to watch in terms of are they going to move the center of gravity off of tobacco road and perhaps be a little bit more forceful here.
41:24
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see we'll find that out.
41:26
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, last couple things here.
41:28
[SPEAKER_00]: How many CFP bids will the ACC get in 2026.
41:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian.
41:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a big question.
41:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Miami, you can pencil them in right away, you know, just in terms of how top heavy they are.
41:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what they have returning just in terms of skill position talent having a quarterback that is one of the league already, you know, I would definitely put Miami in there for sure, especially given their schedule.
41:47
[SPEAKER_02]: The question is who can join them and I think there are a number of candidates out there from the UCC, it wouldn't shock me if this is a two bid leak to the CFP.
41:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And whether that's, you know, I sub you, whether somebody, you know, returns to form like a Louisville rises up and ends up making the CFP.
42:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I think two bids kind of is where the ACC should be, going into the 2026 season, just in terms of who's joining the hurricanes, that's going to be the big question, really hovering over the rest of the conference play.
42:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was just looking at the odds and the best odds for anyone other than Miami to make the playoff are as SMU at plus 440, which is not optimistic.
42:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think you're right Brian that like, look, there's a lot of good and you'd like to think somebody finds a way to kind of scubble together in 11 and 1 season.
42:40
[SPEAKER_01]: and sneak in on the back end of the playoff.
42:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know that I feel confident in saying that there's a second bid here.
42:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would lean one at the moment.
42:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think they can get to and I think the Notre Dame Games will be immensely important.
42:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Miami plays Notre Dame, SMU plays Notre Dame, both those in November.
43:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Louisville's on its fourth straight transfer one year quarterback that actually Lincoln King Hall suits the back up, but to truly insane at a high state would be more than one year theoretically, but they they have not been in quarterback rotation.
43:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if they get that one right They have a chance and then you know, Clemson, can they can they put the formula back together and get it right New offensive coordinator Chad Morris
43:33
[SPEAKER_00]: back to the future there.
43:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to say they've got a genuine shot at two depending how hard they have to swim upstream against the fourth and fifth teams probably from the SEC in the big ten.
43:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it certainly helps, too, that like, you know, the SEC is moving to nine conference games this year, you know, I think the big tin, the top of the big tin, plays each other a lot more often than they have say in the past couple of years.
43:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Like schedule wise, if you're just kind of looking objectively, you know, across the country, I think the SEC could be a beneficiary of things.
44:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it doesn't help anything in terms of the big 12, you know, really, you know, beating each other up, if you, well, just the margin in that league,
44:12
[SPEAKER_02]: not having their quarterback going to the season.
44:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So like there are external factors.
44:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I think beyond just the level of play in the ACC that could help it, you know, really get over the hump and and get those two teams.
44:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
44:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the money question.
44:24
[SPEAKER_00]: In five years, the ACC will be blank filling in Kevin.
44:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It will look a lot different, I think.
44:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I do think that around that kind of 2030 timeline, it's going to be harder to kind of keep the whole ship together.
44:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think the ACC will still, like, I don't think it's going the way of the back 12.
44:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think the ACC will certainly exist and I do think there's actually some decent backfill candidates now emerging with the way that South Florida's moving maybe Memphis at some point gets the finally gets the call they've been the prize made for years maybe you can if the ball continues to to trend in a positive direction there.
45:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, 19 million hard beats just fluttered in the Northeast.
45:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You've come fans are in sound.
45:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's totally getting clipped.
45:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But yes, yeah, look, I do think it'll look different.
45:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think it will exist.
45:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It will probably just have solidified itself even further as a second tier power conference, whatever that means.
45:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, I think limping along would kind of be my phrase if you want, you know, in terms of, look, they have a lot of programs that have agitated to go elsewhere, whether that's the big time the S. is he where they have a home and whatever, you know, potential leagues are out there that could offer them the more money.
45:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, certainly.
45:46
[SPEAKER_02]: programs like Miami and North Carolina we've already mentioned for the state is certainly agitated and tried to suit themselves out of the league already, you know, whether they ultimately follow through on that down the road, we'll see, but obviously Duke is out there as well as a potential marquee edition for some league so.
46:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you got to contend with that, certainly if you're the ECC.
46:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, there are some big backfield candidates, like you kind of wonder, would you just straight up merge with the big 12 at some point, in terms of kind of being the best of the rest, and kind of creating a super conference of your own.
46:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That is separate from the big 10 in the SEC, but still has enough cache and in the market programs to where you can kind of couple things together.
46:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a difficult position for the ECC to be in.
46:26
[SPEAKER_02]: The good news for them is they at least have the connection with ESPN.
46:29
[SPEAKER_02]: which is obviously strongly behind the scenes, probably a big role in terms of the commentary alignment.
46:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think ESPN would move to kind of protect the ACC with whatever goes down the pipe would record with commentary alignment.
46:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that's probably a positive in their corner, if you will, whether that ultimately ends up holding true and what we see in terms of the ACC, kind of remains to be seen.
46:51
[SPEAKER_02]: But definitely a fraught time.
46:54
[SPEAKER_02]: for the leak going into the 2030s and all the changes that could happen to cause athletics.
46:59
[SPEAKER_02]: In terms of being impacted the most, you probably say this is kind of right there first of line in terms of possibly getting rated.
47:05
[SPEAKER_00]: They are certainly on the fault line if there is an extra amount of realignment.
47:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And for some, for reasons I can't even fully explain, I'm holding out hope that the leaders of college sports who have let me down nine million times will actually not blow everything up and completely nuked the entire landscape.
47:23
[SPEAKER_00]: If they do, which wouldn't put past them, then North Carolina is absolutely, that is the first draft that they are going to whatever
47:32
[SPEAKER_00]: if there's a supercollection entity that exists.
47:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So 40 schools, whatever, 50, North Carolina's the first traffic out of the one beyond the ones that are already in the core of the big 10 in the SEC.
47:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Virginia's going to be right there.
47:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you figure out what you're going to do with the Duke's Florida State Miami Clemson.
47:52
[SPEAKER_00]: There's another reason where Miami helping itself recently could very much change its future trajectory there.
48:03
[SPEAKER_00]: five or six schools that I just mentioned are not part of a future ACC.
48:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And everybody else that's still there is, or perhaps we even go back to an old big east.
48:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if the whole thing blows up, a possible merger with the big 12, yeah.
48:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's sort of scenario exists.
48:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Or if you can, you just go in and post the Eastern segment of the big 12 and take them to your league.
48:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You take West Virginia, you take Cincinnati,
48:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're on the fault line, they're the most likely to be hurt by a major realignment, but I don't think they'd be killed by it.
48:43
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my prognostication, no frickin' idea what these folks are gonna come up with.
48:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it's also different nowadays for the ACC like, you know, like North Carolina Duke used to be tied at the hip together, you know, you Virginia Tech used to be tied at the hip, you know, literally that was an issue, you know, and in certain rounds of comfort through alignment, in terms of splitting up some of these schools, I think they are much more likely to go their own way and look out for their own self interest, you know, in a number of situations around this league than than that has ever been the case, you know, in terms of the ACC history, you know, you would have said, all right, Florida state in Miami, you know, they're probably packed deals somewhere.
49:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's necessarily the case anymore, if Miami can get on the raft boat on the way out, they're going to take it and they're really whoever else behind.
49:24
[SPEAKER_02]: That's probably the biggest change I think moving forward into the 2030s, is that some of these programs that you look at as historical rivals, look at as being really tied together.
49:34
[SPEAKER_02]: potentially by a certain legislatures in various states.
49:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's no longer the case.
49:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's probably put the AC and a little bit more tenuous position than it was, say, 5, 10, 15 years ago.
49:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's a good point in glad you made it because the, yeah, the legislative ties that buying could be untethered.
49:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Act that redoing all the voting districts anyway, you know, they, I mean, this is fault.
50:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Right in with it, you know what, we're uncopling Virginia and Virginia tech.
50:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry about it.
50:05
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the way it goes.
50:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, that five years from now, we'll see.
50:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure we'll be pulling out this clip as evidence that we were.
50:12
[SPEAKER_00]: extremely insightful into what was going to happen.
50:16
[SPEAKER_00]: One other topic, non-ACC, and then we will get to a great closing segment here.
50:23
[SPEAKER_00]: But the Nebraska College Sports Commission arbitration situation, the ruling, I think these expected to come down this week.
50:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody's sure when may not happen, but I think the belief is it's coming this week.
50:40
[SPEAKER_00]: This could be fairly significant.
50:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Does the CSE have any teeth or not?
50:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Is the question there?
50:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not asking anybody to predict what's going to happen because that's like trying to predict an NCAA ruling.
50:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You're stupid if you try.
50:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But Brian, how important is this for the viability of what came out of the house so many?
51:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's a massive, you know, I think everybody kind of circled, all right, who's going to be that first case?
51:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Who's going to be the ones to challenge the system?
51:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, it is Nebraska in this case.
51:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And look, this arbitration process was put into place by the lawyers, the house case.
51:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this was designed to be the test kind of ring of honor to where everybody could go in and bowled up involving plenty of legal fees.
51:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is going to be a huge test case in terms of how you pay rosters moving forward.
51:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And whether this ultimately ends up being upheld, there's state laws that are going to be impacted in this particular case with Nebraska.
51:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if this had been a Duke or some other school in a different jurisdiction, like there's even other layers that could be added on to this particular case in terms of actually challenging, the tenants of the CSE agreement.
51:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not even agreed to by schools at this point.
51:49
[SPEAKER_02]: You have certain schools that have signed on to the participation agreement others that have not and a lot of them are very interested in looking at how this case is going to be treated.
51:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And it definitely plays a huge role in terms of not just these Nebraska players getting paid, but for how you build roster above the cap.
52:06
[SPEAKER_02]: This is going to be a serious test and a serious challenge to how schools do that, both on a actual day-to-day, like here's what we're actually giving out to your athletes and also like when you're talking with a quarterback or you're talking about, you know, landing a power forward, you know, how are you going to actually say, this is what you're going to end up getting paid and this is going to be a massive test case for the system and it's going to be interesting to see how everybody reacts to whatever the ruling ends up being.
52:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
52:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sort of mildly
52:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
52:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like we've stopped one out of a hundred runners here in caught like I just don't know how we live in a world where most basketball teams are committing 10 plus million dollars to their roster most football teams are certainly a significant portion of football teams are at the 20-ish cap already themselves like it just
52:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't see how all of this is getting put to a stop just because Nebraska loses an arbitration case.
53:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So like a specific loophole with which they tried to pay over the cap.
53:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think it's important again for the people writing these contracts and for agents like that.
53:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all right, this is the first real test of my mind.
53:18
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what you can do if the CSE wins the arbitration battle or it is you know even more emboldening of places we can do whatever we want.
53:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
53:28
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a part of me that thinks that the CSE, at least from a cap enforcement lens, is already relatively too blessed at this point.
53:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I will say, given the amount of energy, money, brain power, and everything that went into creating the house settlement and the CSE and NIL go,
53:54
[SPEAKER_00]: If then stands up being completely useless, it's the biggest failure in the history of college sports.
53:59
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all.
54:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it would just be a colossal miscalculation of the market and market forces and what schools are willing to do to get players.
54:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is one of the end rounds.
54:11
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna get playfly sports to pay these guys.
54:13
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna get Lairfield to pay these guys.
54:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what, that's the narrow scope of what's trying to be,
54:19
[SPEAKER_00]: rained in or adjudicated here, but the bigger picture is, yes, do we have a cap or not?
54:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And so far, we have no cap.
54:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And where this thing goes, I don't know, I I grew with you, Kevin, I'm not sure a victory here completely changes the day, but a loss is bad, because then it's like, all right, we got nothing.
54:39
[SPEAKER_00]: The CSC has nothing, and Brian Seely, sitting there saying, I gave up a decent job to do this to work with these freaks in college sports.
54:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you kidding
54:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what's on the table there.
54:50
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see what comes out of it when it happens this week.
54:53
[SPEAKER_00]: If it happens this week.
54:54
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, last thing, gentlemen, as you know,
54:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Fall has many, there are many rights of fall, turning leaves, pumpkins, college football, and also the fat bear week, right in Alaska?
55:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, well, well, spring.
55:13
[SPEAKER_00]: A right of spring in Wisconsin, fat bird week.
55:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, birds can get fat too.
55:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They can plumb up, you know, whether it's with eggs or just eating a bunch of food, I'm not sure, but the natural resources foundation of Wisconsin wants you to vote during this fat bird week on the fatest birds and they got a bracket.
55:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a complete rip off of fat bear week.
55:41
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's awesome.
55:43
[SPEAKER_00]: We have like an eight, eight round or eight, eight competitor bracket here.
55:50
[SPEAKER_00]: We've already had two results.
55:54
[SPEAKER_00]: The chunkest cardinal beat the massive metal log 51% to 49%
55:59
[SPEAKER_00]: and the ginormous goldfish, which is truly ginormous.
56:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to see the pictures, defeated the Bloomberg couple who let themselves go, a very clever captioning by our people here.
56:12
[SPEAKER_00]: The current vote is the wood duck with a dad bod against the Waffen widget.
56:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I've already voted for the dad bod duck.
56:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like I do definitely need to hit the gym, but we have got a fat bird
56:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this better or worse than fat bear week?
56:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Where does this, where would you rank fat bird week?
56:35
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a knockoff, but it's pretty clever.
56:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody, I mean, I, I, I just did not know birds could get this fat, although I will say this, I mean, the pictures do it justice, but I like I need we need to incorporate some video into this and I need to see how they fly because I need to know how the ginormous school bench, who as you said is ginormous how that things flap in a way, I mean, I'm looking back at history last years, when are the spherical white throated sparrow?
57:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
57:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea how that thing stands in there.
57:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We need that guy from sport science.
57:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, who always do the sport science segments on ESPN and like Schwarzenegger.
57:17
[SPEAKER_02]: He needs to be breaking this down.
57:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is what he was designed to do.
57:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, he has a four foot wingspan, but he weighs, you know, like X, X amount of, you know, like, and show me the flight paths and some of these birds.
57:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, truth truly, the vote that's up now.
57:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, those ducks, if they are ducks, I'm not sure, so sure at this point.
57:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But then they look like they could house a full loaf at this point.
57:39
[SPEAKER_02]: But Kudos to the state of Wisconsin for doing this, I think we need more of these.
57:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we need to go regional.
57:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the south a little bit heftier than some of those birds in the north or where's the beef in this home.
57:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So Kudos to the state of Wisconsin, I need more of this.
57:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I want more of this, give me more of this.
57:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, the the the other first round matchup is the jiggly junko against the tubby tree swallow, but again today's if you want about and then everybody should natural resources foundation of Wisconsin just just Google Wisconsin fat bird week.
58:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure it'll get you there.
58:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Woodduck with a dad-bod vs. Waffen-Witchen.
58:22
[SPEAKER_00]: May the fattest bird win.
58:24
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, that's clearly enough for this show.
58:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be back next week.
58:29
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to look at the big ten.
58:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So join us then.
58:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.
58:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Give us a review, subscribe.
58:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Watch us on YouTube, and we'll talk to you later.