Latest / Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash / #184 Newborn and child Sleep Specialist Sarah Clifton

Transcript

#184 Newborn and child Sleep Specialist Sarah Clifton · Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ash. Look at me, Look at me. I want to
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: see your face. I want to see your eyes. Okay,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: you got a couple of little bags under there. You
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: get enough sleep? How are you sleeping? Have the kids sleeping?
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: More important?
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I usually sleep on my back aside sleeper sleep. Oh
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: you are. I was shocked. You know, when we shared
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: a bed, you start my pillow and you wake up
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: with pinker.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: My kids right now, though, I do think that we've
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: not had any help at all, an external help, no
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: sleep specialist has come into this household until now. I
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: know the first time, and I do it's I would
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: say it's one of my biggest regrets, you know, not
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: getting not getting the help when it's needed. If you
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: sprain your ankle, you go to a physio.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I just elevate it.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: If you have a headache, you go the doctor.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I just take some at all.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: If you can all right, and if your kids aren't sleeping,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: A lot of parents, myself included, we just battle it out.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: You did put your ego aside and let someone in
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: your house and help you out.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: There's no there's no award, all right. If you get
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to the finish line, you finished the job of parenting.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: And you go, I've never seen a sleep specialist. You
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: don't get anything for it, no trophy, there's no metal.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: There should be Well, no, there's shouldn't be.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: You need to get help, get support. It takes a village,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: for God's sake, well said, But we have a sleep specialist,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: very first time as household. It is a family member
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: of mine, Sarah Clifton, who was the founder of Swoop Baby,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and she's here to tell us all the information that
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: we need as parents of young little ones how to
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: get them to sleep better.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Oh I can't wait for this. Shall we just dive
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: straight into it.
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Let's swoop into it.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to two doting dads and one dorting mum.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I am Maddie j and I'm Sarah. And this is
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: a podcast all about parenting.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: It is the good, it is the bad, and the relatable.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: We don't often often we don't really ever give advice,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: but this is one of the few episodes where we
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: actually have an expert.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah me, thank me, thank you, a real expert.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Would you call yourself a sleep specialist? What's your official title?
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, baby and toddle asleep specialist.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: So once I get past the title of stage you're like,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: as anyone ever said, like, we're a six year old
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: and you're like too odd.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: You already have someone you can pass them on to,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: like this guy goes from six to eleven and so
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: on and so forth.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: No, you think by those stage that they're sleeping, right, Yeah.
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: I hope so, but no, look for strategies for three
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: year old samers five year old same as six year olds.
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah we can give it and yeah, hopefully help you out.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: I have a burning question.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Now you do know Matt personally, but I would like
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: to know for you, what's the most trouble as a
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: child that you got into.
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: Oh. The first thing that comes to mind is probably
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: when I was a teenager, went to boarding school in
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: Sydney and anyway, all my parents release.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Or is that prison?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: That's prison? That's prison. Prison.
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: It's a lot of fun because we've got we get
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: into the Sydney life. You're from Orange, Yes, it's thirty
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: k's west of Orange.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So I apologize, we do. We do. For context, Sarah
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: is the younger sister of my sister's husband.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's a mouthful fact, is that right, sister in law?
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: That's what I say?
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Ye that I.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Swear it was orange.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: So well, I'm.
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: Running already because we had the wedding there.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's that's why it's thrown me.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: How we just ran out of town names, so we
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: started giving them colors. That's right.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: You've got to go past yellow to get the orange,
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: and if you go past orange and purple, you've gone
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: too far.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Was Sydney like a dawn As a teenagers, it daunting
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: coming from Molong.
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: I mean it's the big smoke in the country. Like
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: my long there was fifteen hundred people in the town.
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: So yeah, this one time we mum and dad were
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: down and we used to stay at this little house
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: in Freshy and Mum and dad were always very good
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: with us, like they just trusted us. We had a
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: lot of rope, like they were very fair and we
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: kind of weren't too naughty. But this, you know, Mum
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: used to take us to like we'd have a fake ida.
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: She was okay with that. They'd take us to the
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: Wallaby bar, pick us up later. Love that anyway.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Produce suggestion was like what I was also a bit
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: like the can I just really quickly? How did you
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: get the fake idea?
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: So it was one of the girls, the older girls at.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Scope looked similar. Yeah, we used to do that tooting,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: got long hats easy.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: We had one we had.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: One of the boys was a couple of years at
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: two years older than ours, and we all used the
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: same ideas.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Every pub you just had. We just would pass it
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: in and out of.
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: The PA and often they're like, oh, yeah, you look trustworthy,
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: come on yeah yeah, and I think we're probably seventeen. Anyway,
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: I was with one of my besties and we used
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: to go to Walli Bar meat Bell on his friends.
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: I don't think they were there this night, but met
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: these two guys and we had a couple of Margi's
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: and we thought they were like quite a bit older,
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: and we pretended we're a bit older and were fashion
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: designers and there, I don't know one thing. Later to know,
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: we're like, oh, you can come back and stay to
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: hours if you want. Come back. Oh, so Fresh here,
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: And they were like, oh yeah, that was pretty good idea.
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: Our best mate, how far where you were with Fresh? Ye,
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: it's a good thirty minute uber.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an investment.
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: It's an investment.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: Anyway, we went back. They didn't realize that we were
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: staying with my parents, and that we weren't actually twenty three.
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: We were seventeen, and we had one bedroom with two
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: single bunk beds, and nothing obviously happened. But woke up
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: in the morning and my sister came in and she's like, oh, Sarah,
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: Mum and Dad want you downstairs, and I was like,
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: oh yeah, like trying to be cool and still probably
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: a bit tips here, I was like, oh yeah, sure,
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: Oh no, I wouldn't be smiling if I was you.
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: And I was like, oh went downstairs and Dad's like,
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: who's in the bedroom And I was like oh. And
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: then it started getting very awkward because I actually boys,
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: the guys boys are in the bedroom, and did you
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: know that? Yes, we brought them home, but like we
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: weren't even thinking nothing happened, but we were just like,
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: oh my.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Gosh, seventeen, you've got random man.
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: Yes, So it wasn't. It wasn't, and it was pretty
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: unexp like my dad was shocked that I'd even done this,
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: but anyway, so it was. It got started getting bit
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: embarrassing because I didn't even know their names, and so
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: Dad was like, Sarah, you need to get up there.
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: They need to go, And I said, I know, but
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: is it right if we drive them to the ferry? Therefore?
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: Could she? Oh, you're not taking them anywhere? Dad was like, no,
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: you won't be driving them anyway. You can walk them
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: to the bus stop and anyway, So I had to
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: go up. Bill was there. He was a visiting a
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: lot of mileage out of this one. So went upstairs
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: and my friend hales. I was like, guys, we've got
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: to go anyway. My dad and my mom, my sister
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: and my brother all downstairs just waiting for us to
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: come down, like the walk of shame couldn't introduce this
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: is Yeah, anyway, one of the guys tried to shake
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: my dad's hand, and my brother's like mind your head
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: on the way out, mate, like, and my dad's yet
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: nice nice, had a way to meet anyway, he was
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: polite to shake the hand.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: When we walked and I walked up to us, and
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: me and my friend had so I'm like, what were
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: we even thinking?
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Like you think I had no anyway, We've got here now.
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: Went back home. My brother's like, Sarah like he looked
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: like Spike from notting Hill, like obviously like just not
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: and so yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't our best move,
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: and obviously like, yeah, nothing happened, but it was just
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: one of those like I wasn't thinking whatever yet we
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: were like, yeah, we felt really bad.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: That's good parenting. I think I would have just been erratic.
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah the fuck. Yes, they were pretty good about it.
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: He wasn't impressed, but they were, and we felt terrible.
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: I just remember we wrote them a letter and because
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: like they did a lot.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Fast, he was trying to be nice.
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: Well there was it, honestly like, but it was just
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: like one of them.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you look back and go, why did I do that?
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you used to work I'd say, advertising, But
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: how do you transition from working in the world of
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: marketing and advertising to then becoming a sleep specialist.
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: So it all happened when I had Woolfee. A lot
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: of people would say to me, oh, so are you
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: going to find that first year of motherhood really tough?
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: And even Mum she was like, you love your sleep,
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: You're going to find it really challenging. So it was
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: something I really wanted to learn more about and kind
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: of set us up for success in that respect. So
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: I just did a lot of research on sleep kind
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: of found my groove more easily than I expected, and
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: that fourth try mester of the US three months was
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: pretty good. I just put a few of those things
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: in place that I was reading about and then just
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: started passing on that knowledge. And swaddling was a big
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: thing for me. I was very passionate about swaddling, and
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: I believe that really set the boys up for success.
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: So I wanted to make these swaddles because I had
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: big boys and I couldn't find swattles that were big
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: enough to hold, and so that was kind of where
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: it started. I was thinking more product business and then thought,
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: do you know what I'm going to do the baby
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: in total of sleep consulting courses, thought leadership for the
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: product business and loved it, and yeah, I just started
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: passing on that knowledge and doing it on the side.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: So when you get a new customer and you have
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: a look at their child, like what's step one, You're like,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: what's wrong with this thing?
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: We sleep train from four months. Prior to that, it's
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: night nannying, so we're just there to give parents respite,
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: take care of the baby overnight while you sleep. But
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: with sleep training from four months or sleep conditioning. We
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: look at we asked feeling inclining take form and understand
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: more about the sleep environment, because sometimes it's quick wins
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: with the sleep environment that can a massive impact on
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: their sleep. Also, feeding in nutrition is a big one
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: and I'm sure well I've found with Poppy recently and
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: if you can get the feeding right and well established,
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: they're going to sleep much better. And the timing of
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: those feeds is really important in sleep. And even as
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: toddler is like, the food they're eating in nutrition impacts
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: their sleep. So that's a big one in a question
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: that I always ask. And then how are they getting
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: to sleep currently? There's lots of different associations that they
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: might need, and we want to encourage babies to fall
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: asleep independently. You know, all babies wake overnight, but if
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: they're not missing an association, they're able to roll over
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: and go back to sleep. But if they're being fed
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: to sleep or rock to sleep in your arms co sleep,
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: they wake up and their environment's changed, that's when they're
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: really alarmed and need to call out for you to
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: help them get back to sleep.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: There's conflicting reports and there's so many different people putting
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: out information online. I've read on the one hand, it's
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: best to look at the queues for the baby or
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: toddler to show indicate that it's tired. You kind of
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: take that lead to them put them into their sleep routine.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Times you have to kind of force them into a
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: sleep routine before they're actually tired. Is it a case
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: of you need to spoon feed the trial the sleep
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: routine or is it best to kind of flow the
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: queues to let the toddler know when they're tired toddlers.
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, lots of conflicting information out there, and it makes
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: it really hard for parents to know what to do.
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: And I find if you know, you do one thing
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: and then you do another thing, and then all of
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: a sudden, your baby's very confused and it doesn't know
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: what it's doing. With newborns, for Poppy, like the first
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: six weeks, you just want to focus on that bonding
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: time and that connection and you can't get in bad habits.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: So fine, it's fine to like, during the day have
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: a sleep in my arms.
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely fine to do that, cuddles all that, like,
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: no problem. I would say, when it's no longer working
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: for you, we changed things. But from six weeks. I
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: was very routine driven, and I loved a routine because
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: I felt it gave me flexibility. Sleep is a physicological need.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: We need to ensure they're getting enough sleep. If they
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: get good sleep in the day, they're going to sleep
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: better at night. So being well across their wake windows
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: is key. And you think, like.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Six weeks, what's the wake windows?
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: One hour fifteen to one hour and a half. That's it.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: It's not especially feed most of that.
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: And they feed most of that. So that includes feed
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: and settle, and that's where I find a lot of
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: the challenge comes from because often babies are kept up
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: longer than that, they then become overtired, deregulated cortisol adrenaline
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: pumping makes it harder for them to sleep and stay asleep,
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: and that's when you start seeing the thirty minutes sleep
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: induces sleep sleep Mate, sleep, sleep Soldier.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: What about during the day At night time, obviously the
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: room is nice and quiet and there's not a lot
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: of noise, But then during the day, I'm kind of busy,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Laura is busy. There's a lot going on that's external noise,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: things happening at the moment, pop is only probably sleeping
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: like thirty minute blocks during the day. Is that normal
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: or should I be more focused on giving her a
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: better sleep environment to sleep longer.
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so it is good if you can work on
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: longer napps. But again, babies are very unpredictable at this age,
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: so you do what you can, like if you can
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: focus on resettling even just for one of those naps,
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: because that'll definitely set her up for success. And once
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: she starts having longer naps, she's going to be sleeping
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: better at night as well.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Just to go off track here.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: A little bit, when you have your baby in the
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: hospital and they're in the nursery in the hospital.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: All the lights are on and it's like, you know,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: like they do that.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Then you come home and you expected to make your
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: sleep environment and more comfortable.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Keep the light to play. Lots of bang noise, yeah,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: when they're like more robust, a lot of beeping, yeah, hospitals.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, when they're newborns, like it doesn't matter, Like
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: the first first six weeks not a problem, but from
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: then on, Look, they've got the maternal melotonin in the
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: first three weeks from the chi and then that weighs
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: off and then not until about eight weeks they start
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: producing their own melatonin, and you really want a nice
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: dark environment to help support that melotonin production. And yet
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: light signals to the brain it's time to be awake.
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: So getting a nice dark environment is good if your
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: baby's not sleeping well. And I'm not always like, oh,
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: it's got to be black and you've got to have
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: the white nose. But if the baby's not saying well,
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: these sort of little things certainly help.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Because that's my worry. And we've been away with friends
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: before and they're like, well, little Timmy, well, only sleep.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: If it's like quiet as a mouse. You can hear
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: a pin drop. We need to black out every single
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: source of light, so it's like black black, and I'm like, oh,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: for God's sake, i can let them sleep wherever. If
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: you make it is that am I correct the issue
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: in that if you make it too particular, that's hard
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: to replicate outside of home. You're setting yourself up for
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: a tricky time.
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: You know, you can take portable blackout if they're really
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: reliant on it, and again, every baby's different, but if
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: you've created that space, you can take the portable black out.
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: You can definitely take the portable white noise. You take
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: their usual comforts, the slim bag or the swaddle, they're
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: little comfort of the dummy whatever, and replicate that for
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: them and you're probably better chance of them having good
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: soap when they're on holidays.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: So yeah, April did that.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Whenever we travel or anything, it would be there'd be
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: a whole bag of things that was like to make
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: sure that she can replicate it, and now we are
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: thankful that she did that.
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Well they're just the little powerful sleep cues and
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: they'll tell the baby, yeah, it's time to sleep and
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: it's time to wind down, and so having those is yeah,
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: really helpful.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: So from six weeks, the wake period is between an
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: hour and a bit to hour and thirty. Yeah, when
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: does that start to lengthen.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: So twelve weeks then you'd be looking at an hour
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: and a half to an hour forty five yep. Four
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: months is about two hours, five months two hours, fifteen
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: six months two and a half hours. And that's when
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: I like to try and get them on a routine
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: by that point.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Right about how many weeks.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: Definitely by six months, I mean, babies thrive on routine.
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: You can start getting them in a routine from six
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: weeks if you like gentle routine following wake windows from
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: four to six months, Like a schedule for the three
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: naps is good and it's about wake windows, but also
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: like you've got a good guide on Okay, the nap
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: one should be nine thirty now two usually that lunchtime
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: twelve thirty one ish, and then the third pound nap
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: on the goal of for thirty two or five.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I want to shorten my kids wake windows now. I
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: would like to go backwards. I like them to be
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: awake less.
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, four and six.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: If you are adhering to those sleep times and then
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: you're getting the environment sorted as well, and you're ticking
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: those boxes, but you're still struggling. At what point do
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: you then think as a parent, well maybe I need helpier.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: And then when do you then go from a sleep
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: consultant to then getting help from a GP.
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: So, yeah, we obviously look at the behavioral side of sleep,
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: but there's definitely physical I guess red flags that you
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: would be looking for. We would recommend seeing a pediatrician
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: in the early early weeks, like the first three months,
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: Like you want the baby feeding well, and putting on
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: good weight. So if they're not doing that, that's a
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: bit of a flag. If you're finding them really hard
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: to set up or they're inconsolable, you know, there is
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: Colleague is a thing, but you know it's worth it
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: if you're stressed. If you're stressed and it's then it's
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: definitely worth seeing a pediatrician when they're older, if they're snoring,
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: if they're mouth breathing, if they've got constant ear infections
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: or tons and lightest like those sort of things can
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: lay to sleep out near for example. That's more physical stuff.
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: So we'd always refer that out.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: How do we solve the mouth breathing My kids are?
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Like, I was just going to touch on that because
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: friends of mine their kid had their tonsils and adnoids
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: out because he was having troubles with his speech. Yeah,
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: and then they started to realize that he was actually
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: really gasping for air when he was sleeping. He was
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: really tired, and really he was sleeping, but it wasn't
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: He could tell that he wasn't comfortable, and it was like, okay,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: well they got his tonsils and adnoids out and like
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: it did.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: A decent difference in the house for sure, just.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: To get like mouth tape.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Can they have a four am I spar.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: The first twelve months when you're trying to implement the
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: sleep routine, and obviously kids get sick, you know, they
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: have like those regression moments. How do you make sure
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: you're still staying on track and stick into that routine.
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: Yes, developmental leaps, teething sickness very common question with parents
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: and when we're sleep training that what do we do
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: when this sort of thing happens. The good news is
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: when babies are sleeping well, often they sail through the
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: developmental leaps and it hardly impacts their sleep. The teething again,
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: a lot of research has been done on that and
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: actually the teething pain is less overnight. It's not going
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: to often cause the night wakes, your blood pressures lower,
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: your body temperatures lower. If they're fine in the day,
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: they're not waking overnight because of teething. In terms of sickness.
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: Still on a sleep train, if the baby's unwell, if
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: they've already slept trained and the baby becomes unwell, you follow,
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: You respond as you need to, and if you cannot
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: throw everything out of the window with sleep train of settling.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: Then that's idea and hopefully if they've learnt sleep well
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: like you, they will settle it a similar way when
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: they're unwell, but sleep is healing, so you know, wanting
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: to take longer naps and we go off the routine
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: when they're sick, absolutely fine, and when you when they
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: are better because they've learned to sleep well, they'll bounce
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: back when you're consistent consistencies, keep consistent when your settling,
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: and they'd get back on track with the timings and
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: they'll be absolutely fine.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Because I know when Macy's like a bit unwell, she's
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: you can tell that she wants to sleep more.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's and it's like it might be four
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: in the afternoon, which is a horrible time to let.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Have a nap, but if she needs it, she needs it.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: And it's like, look, if I'm going to have a
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: rough night now because of her, if she can get
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: some sort of reprieve, like I can get a letter
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: of app work.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, And.
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: When they're having those naps a four pm when they're
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: not well, they're still going to sleep well because they
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: just need it. They need that extra sleep when they're sick.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Obviously, every child, every family is different. I remember there
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: was there was a friend who I won't name, but
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: they were like, oh, yeah, the baby, we'll just just
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: sleep when it's tired. I don't remember who, Like being
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: like nine o'clock at night and the baby was, like
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: I say, a toddler was still just like up and
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: about and I was like, oh my god, Like the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: child is to sleep, well, well.
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, like it does need like but at the same time,
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: like if the parents are fine with that, you do
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: you You know, sleep is alone behavior, babies alone through
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: us being very consistent in our approach. If you're not
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: ready for change or wanting it, you're not going to
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: be consistent. The baby's probably going to go backwards because
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: they're very confused. They protest and it's all a bit
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: of a mess. So do what's right for you, and
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: when it's not right, get help. When you'll be ready
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: and you'll see great progress.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: But if I'm trying to get Poppy to put herself
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: to sleep, like the room is dark, there's a bit
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: of white noise, I'm swaddling her, give her the bottle
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: and I'd like to just pot it, put it down.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: In the cot, like, how can I make her have
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: the ability to put herself to sleep?
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so she's still really young, and assistance is absolutely fine.
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: If she's feeding well and she's put on good weight
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: and she's had a good feed off and they're quite content,
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: and you can put them down like swaddling his key. Obviously,
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: nice tight swattle makes for the nap is clean. I mean,
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: put it down and just see what she does. There's
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: no harm in doing that. And that's what I used
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: to do with my boys, and they very quickly kind
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: of learned how to get themselves off to sleep in.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Case there's no stimulation in the room. So they'll kind
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: of just be like, oh, I guess.
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: I'll well if at poppies age, like, if you can
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: replicate that feeling of being in the womb. So you've
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: got a really nice tight swaddle, you've got the white
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: noise on because that's kind of the sound that she's
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: used to. It's a really nice temperature, it's nice and dark,
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: and she's had a good feed she'll be feeling really
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: nice and content. Yes, some do drift off, they don't
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: all absolutely not. And if they don't, that's when we
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: just get a nice consistent method. Shushpat is a good
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: one for your age. Sushpat. You can start with shushpat
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: when you've got her squats, just start by shush patting
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: her up here or even like in your arms in
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: the cradle position, because then it's easier to put her
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: in the bassinet. And even just when she's like even drowsy,
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: then you put her in the bassinet. You can even
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: put her on the side.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: That's great technique.
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: If she gets upset, you go a bit harder with
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: the pats and a bit louder with the shushing on
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: the side. What's your rhythm of the she's getting tired
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: and drowsy. Nearly there, yeah, slocked down and you tape
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: it off. Yeah, tape it off, you.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Go, that's great technique. I'll let your practice on me
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: later down.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: And then do you then like tape her off to
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: like a yeah.
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: And if and when I think she's they're nearly there,
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: I sort of just yeah, like lightly take my hand off,
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: and if they're kind of then they go, yeah, we
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: start again. But if not often yeah, but it can
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: take you know, it can take twenty thirty minutes. You
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: can take time. But the more you do it, the
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: more consistent you are, that time decreases.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Are you're trying to get him to the point of
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: just going to sleep, and then you put them down
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: because you like, is it true that you don't want
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: them to fall a sip in your arms, because then
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: they get used to that that you just still have
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: like like ninety five percent.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he's spot on. Yeah, But when but when
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: they're old as a new one for Poppy, like a
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: young kidding. But when they're four months onwards, when we
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: know the neurologically mature enough to self soothe, self settle, yes,
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: absolutely want to really die back on that assistance, so
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: they're falling asleep on their own.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: When we got sort of stuck in the routine of
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: the shushpat with Oscar as he got a little bit
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: older too, because I think he quite enjoyed it. He
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: enjoyed it so much that when we tried to stop
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: it and I looked in the camera, he was spanking himself.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: He's like, oh, that's the spot, And I was like,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I've got the monitor and I'm like, what is he doing?
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: And I was like, he's a pat in himself, And
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: it's like I remember the days.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, Macy was thankfully not as bad as Oscar,
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: but yeah, the shushpat and it was a lot of.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Like body weight squats, if I'm honest.
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, look, and a lot of parents like even
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: the bouncy ball. I'm seeing a lot of parents get
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: used to like bouncing their babies on a bounce ball.
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: And I always say my advice like, try and find
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: something that's sustainable, because that's pretty tiring enough on your step.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Count right now was through that.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: My quads were huge.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I'm lapping up and down the hallway behind you say,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: it's just like is it because it replicates the motion
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: of being in the room.
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the motion. But as they get older, that can
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: all become a bit too much and it becomes a
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: bit too stimulating and it can actually disrupt them.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: More so that you get too much pat.
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah my to hop back on it now get heavy
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: and you're like, oh sure.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Really, you've got a couple of questions because you don't
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: have a newborn unfortunately, as much as you love one.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I'm a proud owner of a phaseectomy. Thank you, Matthew.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Thank goodness. Yes, I have.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: Got a four and a six year old now keeping
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: in mind. They share a room. Okay, they love it.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: They love each other, thank god.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: But my first question is they are different age and
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: Macy's not yet four and Oscar is probably six and
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: a half going on seven. So it's like, in terms
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: of the routine and the time of sleep, they go
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: to sleep at the same time.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Marley at the moment similar they share a room and
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Marley Lola falls asleep straight away and Marley's there like interesting,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Lola's like, oh, they're on bunk beds and you said
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: lowers down the bottom.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's probably a benefit for you, guys, because
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: mine is side by side like a prison cell.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: And the main.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Question is there for me is at what age do
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: I start to change the routine up a bit so
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: they're comfortable with Oscars doesn't feel like he's getting dutted
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: out of the chance to stay up late, and then
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: Macey can get to sleep without being disrupted by old
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: chatter box over there that can't shut up.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: So if it's working for you and they're happy and
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: they're both going down pretty easily, there's no need to
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: change it. And for four and six year old's like
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: seven pm is still still really good.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, good children.
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: Under seven seven PM's great bedtime? And what time are.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: They going to yeah around there? Yeah?
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: And what time are they working up?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Around six o'clock ish, Yeah, it'll take.
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's perfect. They're getting eleven hours.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Perfect. Parents, are you're killing it?
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: Ash? And yeah? I mean you get your back with
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: his seven pm bedtimes? Your son oscar becomes bedtime battles
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: and he's really struggling to get asleep. That's when you
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: might go, cool, we need to lane stay up into
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: seven thirty. But under seven seven PM's great.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: The reasons they give for not wanting to go to bed,
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: I'm sure that you're probably you're a four and a
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: half year old now that probably it's like it's time
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: to go to bed. But they'll give any reason they
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: shouldn't go to bed. Do you have any techniques or
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: anything you can say to us that will help me
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: get through that moment without getting frustrated?
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, like the power plays and.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: The I'm so thirsty now if you've had four cups
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: of water.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: My kid, or drink that it's drink bottling beds just
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: certainly I got.
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: Away, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'll wear the speak
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: of it at the moment, like with Teddy's the naughty
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: one and he's like, oh, one more high five, some
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: more tickles, more tickles. Oh I'm really I'm thirsty, and
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: I'm like, I can see what's going on here. You
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: give them an inch and they take a and that's
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: that's the challenge. Like limits and boundaries is key and
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: it's an incredibly part of parenting. So yeah, you just
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: got to be firm with your limits and boundary and
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: go look, at the end of the day, bed time
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: is important. We're going to do a nice wine down
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: and routain very consistent, predictable wine down routain where they
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: get the connection the fun that time with you, and
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: then when it's bedtime, it's bedtime and it's kind of
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: not negotiable, so you just ignore these additional affairs at
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: spaed time.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was literally about you about that.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: There's been times where it's talking was like can I
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: please have a tickle back? And I'm like, I'm not
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: fucking giving you anything. And then one time I was like,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: do you know what, I'll give you one minute back
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: tickle and then you go to sleep. And she had
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: the one minute and I was like I'm done now,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: and she's like, cool, I got what I needed.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: It must have been a very good The next time,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: she like.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: She does she needs like a one minute toick her back.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I mean once it starts creeping in like one minute,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: thirty two minutes, that's another story. But sometimes they just
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: like you get your time. You kind of I was,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: I thought to myself, oh wow, I like to sometimes
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: it be a bit of a dictator when it comes
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: to putting the kids at the bed and not letting
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: them have anything. But then I was like, oh, it
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: kind of does sometimes benefit to just give them a
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: little wind.
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: Totally totally, and I encourage you, like just like for
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: them and decisions in the day, if you let them
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: have a bit of swaying, you know, what, what dress
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: are you wanting to these stress all these dress and
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: then they feel like more at ease and so like
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: if one minute tickle was going get her asleep much sooner,
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: there's there's nothing wrong with that. It's when she needs
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: to go, okay, I want five minutes.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: We sort of like I sort of implement the once
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: you step so they obviously shower and stuff, and then
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: they share a room.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: So once you step into your room, the silliness.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Is over, Like this is the spot they never listen
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: because it's like I'll walk away for a second and
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, they're like having something. You know,
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: they're doing something silly and April will be enabling it
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: and I'll be like oh, and then she'll be like yeah,
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: so told just stop being silly. But then it's like
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: if I.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Just have that on record that Ash put the blame
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: on April for that.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Way I always do.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: But like Matt was saying, it's kind of like I've
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: said to them a few times where it's like like
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: trying different things to get them to shout up and
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: go to sleep, where it's kind of like you're in
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: my time now and that makes me upset, Like how
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: would you hate it if I interrupted your time?
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: And it's kind of like they're like I don't get
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: what you mean.
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so how long are they.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: It varies to get to sleep?
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, look, it can take they just I do
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: say sometimes to them, Look, I don't mind if you
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: guys interact quietly. Yeah, okay, because if I have to
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: be across the house and I can hear you giggling
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: and carrying on there's no sleep happening there.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: But like I've.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: Walked in and Oscar is fast asleep and makes he's
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: still talking to him, you know. But like I would say,
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: it's never unless.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: They're absolutely wrecked. It's like thirty forty five minutes. Yeah,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: like oh my god.
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah yeah. Well look, it takes any human on average
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: twayments get sleep. And with my boys, I just think, look,
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: if they're having a little chat, like we can't make
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: them go to.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Sleep, shut That's pretty much what I'm like.
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: But it's if they're like being really not getting out
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: of better that sort of thing a few times. Yeah,
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: And it's just finding out what works for each child
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: and finding their currency and fool Wolfy and Deddy like
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: they love to have the door open, and that's fine.
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: You can have the door open when you go to bed,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: but if you get up, we're gonna have shut the door,
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: or if you keep talking, we're gonna have shut the door.
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: And that works for them, and I've tried that strategy
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: on other clans. It doesn't always work for the child.
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: We've got to find their currentcy in it four and
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: six and maybe they're a bit too old now, but
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: work with a lot of three year old's four year
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: olds and like rules and rewards is a good one,
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: Like these are the bedtime rules, and keep really simple.
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: But you know, you close your eyes, the CLIs over,
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: you know, showing them what to do. Sometimes kids like
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: at that age when they're a bit older, like.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: They literally yeah, forget the kind of what their own
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: ass like, you forget they don't know how about themselves
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: to sleep?
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, eyes go back.
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: To basics and then go cool if you you know,
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: these are bedtime rules or bedtime manners, and you do
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: that and you get stick out or like what their currency,
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: you know, going the beach for her for the playground or.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Money.
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so that can work.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: It's funny you just mentioned before you give them an
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: inch to take am mile. That's the thing.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: There's been times be like, oh look, okay, you guys,
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: you can talk quietly.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: But it's never it's never quietly. Is that they're always
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: like trying to push the boundary.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: You got the microphone in hand.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just carrying.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: And then like lately Macy, who's she's obsessed with mermaids, so
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: she keeps tucking her feet into the pillow, like a
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: mermaid and then I walked past the room and the
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: legs there's a big flipper.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Go to Slade.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: We have some listening questions there and this was submitted
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: by the members of the Facebook group at two dads,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: do you want to get the first one?
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Sure?
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: My three year old is now in a habit of
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: coming into our bed each night, and it's getting earlier
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: and earlier. Tips on how to transition them back into
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: their bed.
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's come on at three and they're coming in
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: for that reassurance and just returning them to their room
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: and positive reinforcement and again going back to like at
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: three years of age. Role modeling is a big one.
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: So it's just they don't know, Hey, when I wake up,
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: they get into these habits. When I wake up, I
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: go into mom and Dad's bed. We just need to go, hey,
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: when you wake up, you grab your bunny or you
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: little toy sleep buddy, You close your eyes, you roll
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: over and drift off to sleep again.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I suppose the way they I'm trying to
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: get on a child's level here, which is really easy. Like,
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: I guess what they think is when I wake up,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: I get out of bed and they don't know what
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: time it is, so they're like, well, I've woken up,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: I'm getting out of bed.
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And so then we've just got to be really yeah,
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: consistent with how we then handle it when they do
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: get up. So then we just take them back, hold
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: the hand, take them back, put them into bed. Times
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: time to sleep, no, night's time sleep, and you know,
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: kind of keep it really boring. They're wanting that social interaction, yeah,
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: to maybe be in your bed, and you just got
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: to be consistent and talk to them. At three years
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: of age, they kind of know what they.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Know so good having to cuddle them.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: So you would suggest if they get into your bed
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: and you're like, and they get in, you don't really
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: notice them when they get in, they fall asleep. Yeah,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I'm best not to pick her up and carry about.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: I'm best like a gentle wake up and walk them
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: back and reassure them.
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: And then yeah, oh look, if they're asleep in your
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: bed and they do the transfer, that's cool, But more
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: I would be trying to get them before they get
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: in from bed.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Gotcha, gotcha?
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I here and coming sit in the room. You're like,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: this question, is my two year old? How come he
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: will sleep great for one night and the next night
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: he'll be awake for say three to four hours.
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: Ah. So yeah, the split night, the party at three am,
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: it's never a fun one. And often it's because there's
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: the timing's out, the sleep pressures out, or he's not
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: getting enough nap time in the day and that's going
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: to mean he's going into bed overtired. And that can
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: call was split nights and wait for a decent amount
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: of time, or he can be you know, slept too
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: much in the day so he just doesn't have that
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: sleep pressure over night and he's waking for a couple
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: of hours. So yeah, i'd be looking at the timing
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: of the naps and the time he's going to bed
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: and potentially having to adjust that. At this age, yeah,
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: the nap would be about an hour and a half
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: in the day of the day. And then you're wanting
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: for our wake window from that nap to.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Bed, right because there's that old thing right where parents,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: you got got to sleep through last night. Let's just
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: do exactly what we did last night and it doesn't happen.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Is it just the case that maybe the roade night,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: that mid day sleep which I miss, that mid day sleep.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: It was just a bit shorter, so that their wake.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Window is actually a bit longer now before you get
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: into that bedtime routine.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: So now they're overtired, which causes the split. Yeah, genius,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: And look.
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: It's also how they falling to sleep. If they're self settling,
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: no problem. But if they're missing an association, they're waking
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: up they're wanting that. That's like a dummy.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I remember with Oscar. My kids thankfully just gave up
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: the dummy. They didn't want it.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: But I remember early days like before too. If it
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: fell out of their mouth, that's going to get that?
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Where is it? Right now? All of a sudden, they're
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: awake and it's a whole ordeal. Were getting a split
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: night sleep?
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I've got to teach them to find it.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I've got another one here. My one year old always
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: wakes up before five am. How do I get this
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: kid to sleep in longer?
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: The early morning wakes are such a common one. It's
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: often the last to resolve. It's really hard to sleep train.
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: At five am. You kind of want to do whatever
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: you can to get them back to sleep. But often,
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: I mean the basic environmental stuff you want to look
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: at making sure that you've got the white noise on it.
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: It's blocking any environmental noise of the gabos or birds
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: or whatever. You know, it's a nice environment. It drops
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: to its lowest temperature at three am, so you know
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: if they're too cold at five, they're going to awake early.
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: Making sure the room's nice and dark at five am,
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: hopefully it is. And then like nutrition, are you know, hungry?
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: Are they waking because they're hungry? But often at one
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: like they're pretty well established on solids, and that's that's
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: not a reason. Again the nap timings and the time
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: they go to bed, and often people think, hey, a
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: later bedtime's going to be in a later wake, and.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: That's not the same the case.
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we want to get them into bed a bit earlier.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Do you think it is beneficial for kids to share
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: a room?
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: Yes, I love it. If it works for the kids, absolutely,
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: you know, there's always going to be some excitement around
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: the few weeks of them sharing a room and they'll
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: be chatting and doing all their things. But again, limits
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: boundaries a key. And yes, if they sleep well, often
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: the older one can help the younger one too. And yeah,
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: I think it's great.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's helped with them Marley and laa bond.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: I recall just one of my wife's friends saying, oh,
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: some of my best memories were sharing rooms with my siblings,
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: you know, at that younger age, because it's kind of
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: like having to sleep over every night.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: As long as they getting sleep. Yeah, and the prison
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: cell together, the meal comes slider in under the doors.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: So we always end on one question, and that is
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: when Teddy and Wolfie are no longer living at home
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: they've grown up, when they've flown the nest, what is
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: the one thing you would want me to remember about
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: the house they grew up in.
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: They're fun. We had have a good time, like, you know,
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: dancing before dinner all like, Yeah, they're fun, they have
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: I love it.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: And I also love that you've offered to have a
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: night when Poppy is old enough to help her get
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: into a better routine.
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: Yes, we'd love to so newborn nights, we can do that.
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: I'd love to do it now, now do it now? Yeah?
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Do you have to wait until she transitions to a
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: bottle feed?
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: No? No, I mean if Laura, because I can just
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: bring her into Laura when she's due for a feed
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: and then take her. So Laura just literally gets upfeeds
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: and goes back sleep. I then sort to set or
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: make sure she's getting sleep. So whenever you want to.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you Sarah so much.
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: Guys, Oh I hope you after all that sleep dog.
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: Oh god, I feel like like that.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: If you found this episode somewhat enjoyable, mane beneficial, little
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: miss nuggets of information, but then please.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: Do the right thing, just the leave a review, five stars, subscribe,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: we'll share with the fred.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: This is why we're not getting reviews.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: We started this podcast with one desire and that was
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: to entertain the tired parents of this country. And what
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: did we ask for in your return? Not much, not money,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: just a review, just one, one review, a few words
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: of your time.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: People aren't reviewing out of spite now they're like, he
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: wants it too bad, I'm not giving it to him.
• 39:43
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• 39:46
  Speaker 2: like it when you beg.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Also, you can find us on social media at two
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Doting Dads, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and of course now Full
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Wednesday episodes are on YouTube.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Enjoy that as we enjoyed that sleep talk.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: You guys later. Two Doting Dance Podcast acknowledges the traditional
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: custodians of country throughout Australia and the connections to land,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: see and community.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: We pay our respects to their elders past and present
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: peoples today