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Bob Cavallo · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: My guest today is legendary manager and record executive Bob Cavallo. Bob,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: what do you think of the Earth Wind and Fire movie? Well,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I have mixed emotions about it. I think I was
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: filmed by Quest Love for almost two hours, so and
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I told him some of the really good stuff. But
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I think the guys in the group made sure they
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: got rid of some of it. You know, I mean,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: because Maurice, I guess I could go by way of
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: explaining it. I can tell you when I signed earth
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Wind and Fire. You want to hear this?
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay. I get a call from Moe Austin
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: to go that Jim Brown, who manages a group called
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: earth Wind and Fire, wants to get rid of the management.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Wants to sell it to somebody. So they're pretty good, Bob,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: you should go see it. So I go. I look
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: at him, and I tell Jim that I'm not interested.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: So on and so forth. Maurice White calls Moe and
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: asks him for my number to ask me to have lunch.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: He wants to hear why I turned him down. So
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: we go to lunch, and I said it's very simple.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I'm in this business to make money, and I don't
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: think I could make money with that group. I don't
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: think it is going to have a broad enough audience,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: although there are really really good musicians. I accept that,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: so I said. Then I said to him, Reese, what
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: what was your vision for this? Did you have a
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: thought for it? You know? He says, yeah, I wanted
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: to create songs of hope and optimism for the people
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: in my community. I'll never forget that line, I promise you.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what he said. And I want to develop
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: pride in the incredible contributions that And he starts mentioning
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: all the various kinds of black music from Africa, from
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Afro Cuban, from New Orleans, jazz, Chicago, jazz, do wop, whatever,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: He mentions everything there is. And so he's going on,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: and I'm inspired by that. Now, I never having been
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: in the black shirt church, but of course, basically a
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: little bit full of shit. I say, well, I visualize
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: more with what you're telling me young, those young beautiful
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: boys that are singing in the black churches. Never having
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: been in a black church, I said that anyway, four
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: months later and I'm telling you straight. Four months later
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: he calls me. He says, well, you want to see it?
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I said, see what? He says. That group we talked
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: about we're going to be at studio Instrumental was at
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: two o'clock. Don't you come? And I said absolutely. Now
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: the day before Ruffalo, which someday if you if you
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: want to talk about it, I'll explain where he came
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: from and why. I mean, no, no, no, definitely tell
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: me now because I always wonder. Okay, So it was Cavala, Ruffalo,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: and ultimately Farnoli. So it's like, I'll explain it all.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: So he was he was a boyhood pal, like a
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: seventh one am I saying, sixth grade. But he cut
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: across my front lawn to get to Yonkers Avenue, so
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I threw rocks at him. I mean basically we hung out.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: We were kids. He went to he got a degree
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: in engineering, and then he got a degree in business
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: call RJ. Cavallo Management got bought by some bomb side
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: company in the sixties. I had the love and spoonful
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: of couple of acts. I was making plenty of money
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: and it was the go go sixties and they wanted
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: to diversify, and they bought my company. So Ruffalo, I
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: call him and I go, you got a degree in business,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: why don't you join me and we take over this
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: company that just bought me out. They would pay me
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: thirty thousand a month in whatever, sixty five or sixty
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: six or something, a lot of money, sixty seven, something
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: like that. And I had all this stock now, so
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: I said, you get a taste of the stock. We
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: take this company over. So he comes to New York.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: The paper becomes worthless. My lawyer gets to make sure
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: they can't get any money back from me. And now
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I got it. He says. I said, you got to
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: go find something else to do. He said no, So
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: I had him help me. He oh god, that wonderful songwriter.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Singer songwriter David Geffen's first client. Well, there's Jody Mitchell,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Jackson Brown before them. That's okay, Zio laur Nio. So
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: he David decides to go to the West Coast and
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: start a label, and he gives me Laura Niro. So
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do David's think, so I give
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: it to Joe and he looks after her and he
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: drives John Sebastian around, and so he was. He wanted
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: to stay in the music business. So that's how it started.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: The day before we go back to the story of
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Maurice White. The day before, I know I'm going to
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: get a call and we're going to go to studio
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: instrument Reynolds. I say, Rufalo's bothered me. He wants a
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: piece or something, you know whatever. I said, well, i'll
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: give you half in the next act we signed. There
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: you go. That explains it all, doesn't it. Anyway, we
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: had it and he worked hard.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, there's a lot I want to get back to
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: because there's a period of years before you sign earth
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Win in Fire.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Let's go back. Did you ever have to pay Jim Brown? No, okay,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: because he wanted to Absolutely not. I wanted to sell.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: So you go to hear the band. Tell me about that.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Maury said, what do you think? And when it was
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: over and I went and I locked the door, I
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: was blown away. There was a girl in the group.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: I said, I don't like the girl. I mean, I
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: didn't mean she wasn't beautiful and great, but I didn't
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: see that as the image that I saw of them.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: You know, I loved that they were all young guys,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: beautiful kids.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, in the movie the girl ends up leaving for
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Parliment Funkadelic. Is that the way it went down?
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I have no idea. I don't remember. I mean, okay,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I may have known once, but okay, so let's just
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: put a bow on this. Did mor Ree change the
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: group specifically because of you? It's not my nature to
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: say that. He he's the most creative person I've ever known.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: He was looking for he was in a part of it.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: He was in a pross of trying to find what
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: he wanted to do. I think him explaining to me
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: what he wanted to do, and me saying one thing.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Those good those good looking boys singing the black churches,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: maybe that had something to do it. But every musician,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: every one of those kids was a great player. I mean,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: his brother Bredeen was already in it. I mean, he
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: was remarkable. They were all remarkable. So I don't really
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: know about that. Okay, I don't want to take that
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: kind of credit. I'm not I'm not. I'm just a
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: little I'm more interested not in the burnish your image,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: just in terms of the way it was told in
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: the movie. But let's move on. To the movie. Let's
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: let's let's move on for it.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: You said you spoke with the Questlove for two hours
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: and there were things were not in the movie. That
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: was one tell us more.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know that I really want to do that.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't remember what I said. I know
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: I was there. I don't know if I was two
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: hours or an hour or an hour and a half. Well,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know. My point would really go back to
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: my initial question in terms of your thoughts about the
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: movie and whether it was an accurate depiction. In the end,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I said it was okay. I thought it was okay
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: because all I cared about, you know, when I was
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: told and it came to somebody came to me very
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: seriously concerned that the Kennedy Center wanted to do something
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: on Earth Wind and Fire, and they sent a picture
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: for the promotion, and they sent a picture that didn't
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: have Maurice in it. It's astonishing, But there's been bad blood,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: and the bad blood is my fault. Maybe I should
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: tell you that. I mean, Maurice comes to my house
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: after a little little country house in Encino with an
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: office above the garage, and I'm managing John Sebastian, a
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: couple of other things, but that was the money maker.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: That's moonful. So now he comes and he brings eight
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: black guys with him, young handsome kids. I said, why
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: did you bring all these guys? He said, we are
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: going to sign the paper today. He said, he's signing you.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Let me explain something to you, Maurice. I don't think
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: it's like hurting cats. I think you should own the name,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: the production company, publishing anything you can own. This is
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: your concept, because it was and he wrote those first songs.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: So he said, well, how am I going to control them?
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, how can I if if we're not all partners.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: I said, right now, you you're going to do it
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: on my money. I'm going to keep you all alive.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: And as soon as we hit the number, then every
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: we'll figure out how we reward each guy. If we
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: need this, give of one guy more or whatever. I'll
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: figure it out. I'll handle the ugliness of it for
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: as long as I can. And we took us years
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: before we had actually we let Al McKay go, who
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: wrote a couple of great songs, because he came to
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: me and said, you can't put this album out. I
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: don't know if it was the fourth album or when
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: it was down the line. You can't put this out.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: I said, why is it is because I don't have
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: a song on it? And I say, but Maurice didn't
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: think you had a good enough song, or at least
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: one he didn't like enough. I'm not going to make
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: a judgment. But he decides because after all it is
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: it's always been forgetting anything else anyone else in the group,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: the vision of that group, the stage, everything was his
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: early days. No choreography, no, you know, just he was
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: very specific anyway, so we had to let al go.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: He still plays and makes money all over Europe playing
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Al McKay formerly of Earth Wind and Fire, and he's
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: a great guitar player or fantastic musician anyway, that's okay.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Just to be clear, it's a different era. Did you
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: have a production deal that then made with the deal,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: had I took or a first chance to play Maurice?
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: But part of Maurice's requirement for me, me to get
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: to manage him is you got to get me off
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: this label. Well, it's kind of funny since Moo Caldo. Yeah,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: but MO it wasn't mo. It was his partner. Remember
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: that back then Moe had Warner Brothers. I had Sinatra's
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: label whatever that Preez and the other fellow, Joe Smith.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Joe Smith had that label. And that's where if we'ren
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: in fire was. Let me give you an example when
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I said to Joe, they really liked me, those guys,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: both of them, and we were friendly. And Joe says
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: to me, you imagine ear fire. I wish I could
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: remember the word. He says, Oh, they're so like like
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: not intense, They're so into like what you would say
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: about somebody who was really into the black movement that
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah. I can't remember the word. I said,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: what do you mean, They're like flower children. Anyway, I
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: had to give him some money. He gave them up
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: like he could. I could see him twirling his mustache.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: You know, he thought he made a great deal because
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: he gave him to me. I have John Sebastian playing
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: an evening with John Sebastian at Lincoln Center. No opening act.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: He's got all his toys in front of him and
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: he's going to interact with the audience like only he
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: could do. Talking about drug band music. The sources of
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: all of his inspirations, et cetera, etcetera. Said, you gotta
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: do me a favor. Job. There's eight black guys I
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: want to put on the stage as an opening act
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: for you. They'll only play four or five, maybe the
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: worst six songs. Uh, I know that's probably said, he said.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Poor guy. He goes, well, I hear them. I said, no, no,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: your your dressic room is in the basement or whatever.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the hell I said, And I
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: don't think he did. And I got Clive to come.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: The reason I wanted to do it that way is
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I knew nobody from Warners would come and see at
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: John Sebastian show at Lincoln Center when all the stuff
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: they had down in the village was, you know, with
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: their interests of the young guys that worked there. So
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Clive came and stood in one of those escape doors
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: that decide, you know, the ones for fire doors, and
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: listen to four songs and in the little cuby thing,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: call me, I'm going to Miami. This lawyer is blah
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: blah blah. Have you a lawyer? Call We're going to
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: make a deal. And that was it.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Clive gets blown out in seventy three. How far is
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: this before Clive gets blown out?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean I think I think we
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: got I don't know what year we started, but Clive
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: was our guy at the beginning.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: But once the records were coming out, Clive was still there.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the first records, the second record, I'm pretty sure.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know, though I can't remember. Okay, you know,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Clive's Clive until we had Shining Star. Actually we actually
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: we made a record that didn't succeed. He sold maybe
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: three four hundred thousand records, but I can't remember the
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: name of the song, but it was okay. It was
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: a little R and B song. When he Maurice wrote
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: You're a shining Star no matter who you are, I said, okay,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: we got our first pop hit. As a matter of fact,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: you might find this funny. You spend time in studios
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: and stuff. Sure, absolutely, Okay. So the day is over,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: he goes home and I'm in the studio to hear
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: how's our hit going? And I don't think that the
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: two and four it was the top forty beat and
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I had to have it strong, and I didn't think
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: it was strong. So I actually get the drum case
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: for the drum set, and I have the second engineer,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: not George Massenberg, record me hitting it on the two
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: and four. This sounds childish, but I was young, and
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I get chicken. I think, Holy Christ, you know what
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: did I do? So I drive up to Maurice, I say, Reese,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: I got to tell you, I was so concerned about
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: the two and forward, but I want that beat to
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: be so solid, and that I did it. And instead
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: of getting angry, he just started to chuckle, put his
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: arm around me. He said, let's go to the studio,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: and you know he's a great drummer, that's what he
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: was first. And he sits down and beats the shit
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: out a ton and then we had that hit. So
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: that's it. I like that I had a little contribution.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, just to be clear, so you knew it was
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: a hit from the demo? Oh yeah, okay, you deliver
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: it at that particular time because the manager interfaces with
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the label and usually motivates the label that you haven't
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: had a hit previously to what I mean talking about
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: with these earth wind and fire. To what degree do
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: you go in there and say this is a big hit.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: We gotta get everybody got to motivate your troops to
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: what degree was that or what degree they were on it?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: And you didn't have to manage them. No, I did
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: that on the on the first record, I can't remember.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I was willing to do a lot of stuff. I mean,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Bishop and Georgie Woods visit, can you get this
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: on the radio? And Boston and Philadelphia, of course, but
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Boston and Washington. Maybe there'd be a gift. I can't
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: really talk about it, but I did anything and everything
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: you can imagine to try to get that start because
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I felt, first of all, I admired Maurice. I think
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: he deserved to be known. He was wonderful musician, and
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: he was trying to inspire such a positive thing. So
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: I felt obligated to try. And then once we had
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: a song that I knew would be on top forty
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: and a lyric like You're a shining star no matter
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: who you are. Seems like nothing now, but it's it
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: was important. It was important to hear that stuff, so
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't have to They knew they had to hit.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: They went crazy for it. I didn't have to motivate
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: anybody before that. They were ready to throw me out
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: of there. I wish I could remember the name of
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: a couple of the songs that they got on the
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: radio that I helped get on the radio sometimes. And
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: but it was fun. Those were great days. Okay.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: So it's your money at first. Yeah, once the money
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: comes in, how do you decide to split it up? Frankly,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Maurice decided and his accountant I didn't have to. I
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: don't really know how much they made. They complained forever,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: but nobody went anywhere. Everybody owned the house. I mean
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: it was it must have been. Okay, case he got
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Philip Bailey in the movie saying he's making twenty five
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: hundred a week, which even back then is not a
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: lot of money. Get on a house at twenty five
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars a week. So I don't know what the
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: truth is, Okay, but your deal with Maurice, you paid Maurice.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Whatever he did with the money was his business.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Well I did. That was just about a year of
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: stuff like that, and then after that it was I
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: would get an advance from Columbia. Remember see Reese hired
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: an accounting the guy that was with one of the
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: most biggest accounting firms. His name Art macnow was in
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: his name was in the list, you know, whatever the
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: hell the five names he left the firm to manage,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: to take care of Maurice. That's how big he thought
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: it was. And that guy took over everything art. I
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: forget his name. I'm old, so I don't have details
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: of financial stuff because it was all done inside that
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: accounting firm, and I was out of it, and I
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: wanted to be out of it. Okay, I get my
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: commission when whenever they but.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: When the band complained, didn't they complain to you?
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: No? No, I didn't manage them, if you think about it.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: I managed the group that they were in. I managed
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: earth Wind in Fire, but not each individual. If a
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: guy wanted to go make a deal, he didn't come
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: and talk to me if he was going to go
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: and get twenty five thousand dollars to work with on
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: somebody's album. I didn't take a commission or make the
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: deal or do any of it. They did plenty of that,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: they all had, you know.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, so if you're if they're going on a tour
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: or they're on retainer, you didn't deal with the number.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I think the accountant did. I really, you know, I
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: just took care of Maurice. I really don't know the reason.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I know it's not that important. You know, it's important
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: to them. How long have I talked to these Philipillia minute? Okay,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: so I don't know the people in the they're bitter,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: so yeah, my question, Okay, they're bitter and the movie
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: as a spin like more Reese took advantage of them financially.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Is that accurate that's what they wanted. I don't know
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: that's what they wanted in the film. I don't know
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: that Questlove felt that way or didn't feel that way.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: God knows now because anything I said, and let's face it,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I was there. I was really there, and I'm relatively intelligent.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: None of that's in the film, just a couple of
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: things that you see, and I think I I talked about, well,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: I forget, it doesn't matter. This is so not important
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: to me, because remember I only managed earth win in
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Fire until Maurice got sick. He came to me as
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: only Maurice, this is the relationship we had. I'm working
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: with this kid, Prince and I you know, that's like
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: herding cats. I mean, that was incredible. And he says
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: to me Bob, would it be okay if I considered
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: another manager. You seem you're with this kid. He's taken
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: all your time. I know where he's going. He's going
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: to be huge. I think I need some other help.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I said, okay, be careful who you go to. But
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: you got my blessing. Don't worry about it because we
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: were friends. That that's a fact. He goes to these
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: guys and they sue him and try to take his
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: house because he owed him some commission. They put him
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: on some days that didn't make sense whatever. I don't
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: really know the story. So he got over that and finally,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: again not his manager, I went up to his house.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I said, you remind me the people my grandfather's day
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: in Brooklyn who used to bury their money in tomato
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: cans in the backyard because they didn't trust the banks.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: I said, you own earth Wind and Fire, the name,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: the group, the whole thing. These guys. I saw one
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: of them in a postman's uniform. I said, how can
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: you not put the group together? You know you can
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: make a fortune for yourself and they can make a
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: fortune and give them a really great deal. All you
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: need is a piece of it. Well, will the people
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: come if I'm not there, I said, unfortunately they will.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: So he went. He did a couple, but he couldn't.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: He had that disease that he eventually died of whatever
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: they call it, parkins arkinss John So. So I mean,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: I'm taking credit for things that nobody will know. I
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: mean except that if they want to listen to this,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: they'll say, well, he's full of crap. But the fact
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: is that's how it happened. He went, he did a
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: few dates. They saw he couldn't really do it. They
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: hired a guy or they brought somebody in to go
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: along with Philip to sing. And they've been touring for
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: the last twenty some years.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, if we had to put a date on it.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Maurice didn't get sick for a long time. So if
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: you started in the early seventies, when does he go
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: to another manager?
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Probably eight years later? That's soon. Yeah, Okay, So I
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: took him. I did do one thing, one management thing
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I'm proud of. Okay, now you got to help me.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: The Latino band that was so wonderful, Santana Santana, Santana's
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: touring Europe. I demand to get on that tour. I
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: want to break them in Europe. I take my wife
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: and I say, we're going on the whole tour. We
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: went all over it. They played every corner of Europe
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: and we stayed with them for a few months. And
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: on that trip, I really fell in love with the band.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: And not so much, I mean, how good they were,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: you know, and how hard they were trying. I was
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: very proud of them. That's all. It's the only thing
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I have to say, is just it was a moment
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: in time. I never forgot okay, But they after you left,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: they never had another hit, right, not that I can remember. Right.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: So that day today, yesteryear, the tour was the advertisement
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: for the record. Today the record is the advertisement for
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the tour. So can you tell us about touring with
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Earth Wind and Fire in the seventies.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: It was too expensive. Maurice just didn't care about money.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I can just you know, did you ever see the
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: show where they come out of the sky and where
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: we hired a famous magician to have them appear and
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: disappear and do all kinds of all stuff That meant
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: nothing to me or but Maurice wanted to be in
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: show business, so he did it. And I don't know
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: if we actually profited on that tour. It was and
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: we had incredible, big audiences, but it was so expensive.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I think we had fourteen tractor trailers a couple of buses.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Give me a break anyway, And you know there weren't
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: stadiums in those days, at least not for a command
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: and fire.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're dealing with a client, dealing with more Reese.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Let's go back. You're banging on the two and four. Historically,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: when you manage and act, there are some people who
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: are going to sit there. Some manitors sit there and say,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: I'm going to work with the material. Others stay completely
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: out of the material.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was always in the material. There are Love
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: and spoone. Weill had nine top ten records, three of
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: them number one. In a short period of time. John
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: wrote all of them except one. I was at every session,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: but I wasn't important. I just I was in love.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: It was the greatest thing in my life, was to
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: go to the studio and watch these guys work. It
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: gives opinions and stuff like that. John wanted to know
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: what I thought about things. John and I are still
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: friends today.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: But you wouldn't say, oh, this song needs a bridge
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: or you know, No.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: I wasn't that much. As a matter of fact, it
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: was an accident the ending of do you Believe in Magic?
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: We were trying to do something. I forget why we
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: were in the studio but the song, but it hadn't
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: come out yet, and this producer of some TV thing
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: or whatever said you need a better ending, and we go, well,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: what kind of ending? And he goes and they played
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: the chords and he said, do you believe like I believe?
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Do you remember? That's how of course? And we went,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Holy Christ, that's it. But it wasn't. It came from
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: some guy whose name I forget, But okay, so let's
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: go back to the beginning. Oh, we were making the video,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: that's it.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: He yeah, you grow up in Brooklyn.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Now, I grew up about two blocks from the Long
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Island Sound in the Bronx called Throg's Neck. Oh yeah,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Frog's Neck Bridge. It wasn't there then.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: So how many generations was your family in America before
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: you were born?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: My grandparents as young married, just newly married, came to
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: America both sides.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Have you ever gone back and met the relatives in Italy?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Yes? In my mother's side I took as soon as
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: I made some money. My dad, My dad worked hard.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: He grew up in little Italy, you know, bathtub in
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: the kitchen, that kind of a place. His mother worked.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: She his mother was the daughter of a landowner that
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: had multiple tenant farmers. So she was a rich girl.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: The only thing she know how to do was so
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: fine fine sewing, you know, something they taught. So she
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: runs away. She she falls in love with the son
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: of of one of these little what do you call him,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: sharecropper or something, So they run away to America because
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: her parents won't let her marry him. So they run
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: away to America. A few years after she's here, or
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: maybe four years, as the first child or two children,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: this guy goes bats and he he goes he has
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: to go to a home. I met him. He had
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: a big white beard and all. But he was in
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: a you know, insin asylum, but not really insane. He
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: was just he needed help. He had to be in it.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: So she has to raise these two kids, and what
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: can she do to earn a living? So so she
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: has to work. As she said, Bobby, there's only one
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: thing that don't work for the Jews. But if you
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: have to. It's better than if you have to work
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: for the Sicilians. Okay, So she would say that with
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: her cigarette, because she was a fine lady in her
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: own way. Anyway, she raised these kids. She did a
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: fantastic job. My dad. But he grew up there. So
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: he goes Okay, he grows up in little Italy, little
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: little Okay, and he goes to after high school, he
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: goes to gets a job in the garment industry and
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: goes at night to Steven's Institute of Technology and makes
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: himself an engineer. Eventually he gets the degree, goes to
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: work for Kane Edison. Eventually he's when he's I don't
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: know how old. He's got twenty guys under him and
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: he's doing well enough to buy a house. He moved us,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: you know, we went Brooklyn, the Bronx. In that place,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: we was really nice apartment. I mean, christ had a
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: view of the water I had, I mean, it was great.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: But then we moved to Yonkers. He bought his first
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: home in English tutor House. Unfortunately, every Saturday I had
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: to help him do everything in that house, you know,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: because he was so he could paint, an artist, he
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: could play Claire de Loon with two hands, I mean,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: really play Claire de Loon. And he figured out how
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: to do it himself. For some reason, he bought a marimba,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: so he learned to play the marimba. And he made
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: me take lessons in the marimba. By the way, he
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: first made me take lessons in the violin, and I
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: cried every time I went to the lesson. So my
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: mother finally interceded. So I learned to read music. I
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: did you know I played. I played one show in
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: the eighth grade. I played the battled Hymn of the Republic.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: For some reason, that was appropriate on my marimba, which
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I carried a mile and a half to school. But
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: trust me, and I realized I didn't want to do this,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: but I love music. I lived in a house where
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: on Saturday morning there was no way I could sleep
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: in the whole house shook from either opera, Tchaikowski or
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: you know music. We were a music house. Okay, So
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: your father had a sibling younger or older younger, and
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: that was a man or a woman. Man And what
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: did his life turn out to be? That was my
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: uncle Hugo. He weighed three hundred pounds. He was a
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: not a even though hey it's three hundred pounds, you
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: don't think of him as a fat man. He looked
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: like a man. We're huge. And he had had an accident.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: He worked first job as in a factory and something
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: came down and clipped his fingers up. So now he's
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: the the guy in the front of an Italian social club,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: you know, mafia, and he's supposed to be the doorman
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: and whatever. I said, Okay, what do you do when
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: the guys give you trouble they want to come in?
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: He says, I hit him in the chest with my
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: fingers and they go home to their mother. He talked
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: like that. He had a little He was a different
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: kind of guy. So when I had hits, he'd come down.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: He had a Cadillac convertible top down. I'm in the village.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: I got ninety seven McDougall Street. It's my office at
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: the front room of my friend's apartment. And he knows
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I got a hit, so he comes in. He's opens
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: the truck wide open, and there's four fur coats in
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: there and they're obviously hot. You can't see where the razor.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: BRAI took the name I said, you can't understand. We're
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: only twenty four years old. She doesn't want a fur coat.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Get out of here. So finally he starts to take
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: me seriously. So I say, how can you go what
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: do you do for a living? I go for coffee.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: So then I really get bad at him, she says,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: but I go for coffee, I really do. I go
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: down to the company, the part of the government that
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: checks about immigration and all customs. You know. I don't
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: know what it was. But his wife's brother was the
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: son of the leader of the one of the five families,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: the big one, and he ran the New York Laborers Union.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: So the way they did it, and oh god, I
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: could get killed for this, but I mean the way
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: I understand they did it. I don't know if it's
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: a fact. They would get guys from Sicily, pay them
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: half of the third of what they could charge for
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: the They'd work hard, put eight or nine of them
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: in a little apartment in Spanish Harlem. They'd have multiple apartments,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: by the way, I mean a lot of people. And
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: they steal most of the money. These guys, they'd be
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: happy because they had cash. Then three or four months
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: of work and they'd go back and open a little
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: store or something. I mean, it was good for everybody
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: in a way, except that it was illegal completely. So
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: I just stayed away from everything. But we loved my
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: uncle Hugo and his wife and his kids. So we'd
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: go into to his apartments and you go, would tell
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: the local guys there, all right, you and you make
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: sure Judy had a Mercedes convertible. Don't let anybody go
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: near this car. We'd go. They had built up, building
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: up some low income housing. His apartment was the biggest apartment,
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: and then it was double so it was two apartments. Nobody,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I don't think it. It's just had. So now I'm
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: giving you the breakfast story. Oh God, I love these.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: I'm looking out the window. This is after Reese's I mean,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: after Uncle Hugo was like quite retired. It's not. He's
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: no longer working for the New York Laborers Union, and
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: he's got a store down to is that I can
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: see from the window his fifth floor apartment. I say,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Aunt Joe, why is Uncle Hugo standing by that meter
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: outside that thing all the time? I never see him?
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Does he ever go in the story? He says, Oh no,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: he can't go in, I said, why, so if he
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: goes in here be arrested. Why, says, Well, they make
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: books in there. They that's all. It's a numbers and
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: things that they do in a in the bronx, you know,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: or whatever. So it was a different kind of like.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: My father was an artist. He could paint, he could
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: play music, he was an engineer. He was just the
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: most talented man on the planet. My uncle Hugo was
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: the most attractive man on the planet because even though
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: he weighed three hundred pounds and was a potential killer,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: if he went to the pool when my parents lived
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: in Palm Springs and he would visit them, every woman
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: in every one of these women, the divorces or whatever
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: they were, wou be in the pool with him. He
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: was just a credible character. God, I didn't think I
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: was going to talk about this, so I could probably
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: go to jail for everybody's dead. So how did your
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: father meet your mother? I have no idea. I did know,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: But now what was your mother's background? Oh, my grandfather
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: was amazing. He he was from Sicily. He's the only
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Sicilian we had in the family. But he was educated
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: in Rome. I guess and when he married my grandmother,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: they went straight to the town in Pennsylvania where he
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: opened a Italian American newspaper, which he was the editor
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: and everything. You know, he's an educated guy, and he
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: got the worst asthma. I guess that mines are something.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: They were coal mines the air he had asthma, and
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: it got so bad that they moved back to Brooklyn
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: and he opened a big, pretty good size print shop.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: That's what he did. So how many kids in your family?
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I have a son and a daughter, No, I mean siblings.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: My sister and she older, younger, younger. She's ninety eighty three.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: And how did her life turn out? Pretty good? I
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: mean she's had a couple of husbands, but her latest
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: one is he's ninety two. He's just dynamite. He's from
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: about Australia. What's the New Zealand? New Zealand? Okay, So
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: what kind of kid were you growing up? Pretty adventurous?
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you really want to hear this, yeah,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: because okay, aside from everything else, when I was a
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: little kid, my father took me to movies, God bless them.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Errol Flynn, I don't know if it was Errol Flynn,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: but jousting on horseback with the spears, arrows, the whole routine.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: I was just so I had a bicycle. Finally they
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: bought me a bicycle. I went and made myself a lance,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: and I would got a box that was a refrigerator box,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: that the giant box, so that I could practice riding
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: my bike in. So I was crazy. That convinced my
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: next door neighbor, who turned out to be a very
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: successful doctor when he grew up, Johnny Cazaris, that he
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: should do the same so we could joust. And unfortunately,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: one time he knocked my lance down and it went
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: into his books. Of this, his tired and his car,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: his bike went over, he went flying, So we quit
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: that game. But I was that crazy, that adventurous, and
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: I lived in a wonderland. You think of the Bronx,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like that at all. I even took my
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: bike to Yankee Stadium to see I went down Grand Concourse,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: went to the Yankee Stadium, told the bartender. I went
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: into a bar and I said, could I keep my
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: bike here? Yeah? I get sixty cents, that's all I
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: needed to get into the bleachers. Yeah, the bleachers and
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: then made my way to the Dollar twenty five up
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: to watch from the grand stand and by the somewhere
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: around the third inning. I'll never forget it. I looked
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: down around third base in this a beautiful box right
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: on the rail, two guys in it. So I know
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I'm a cute kid, like I know. So I go
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: down there and I say, I would give anything if
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: I could sit here for just a while. Whatever. They
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: let me watch the game, but I stayed too long.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Now I'm going home on the grand concourse. It's rush hour.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: I got to beat my father home. If he ever knows,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: if he ever knew, rest is soul. Anyway, I got
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: home in time. I just barely made it, and my
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: mother knew what I had done. Anyway, I was an
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: adventurous kid. I wanted there was in Camarade's boatyard. There
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: was a three and a half horsepower Champion outboard motor,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: and I had to have it. It took me six
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: months to raise thirty five dollars, but I got it.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: This is back in. What'd you do with it? Put
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: it in a put it in my basement. I won't
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: bother it for you take too long. Then I went
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: and I said, it took so long to get the thing.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: I'm telling my friend Jimmy, we got to steal a boat. Uh.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: So we go to City Island. Remember City Island? Yeah, okay,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: they had yachts and stuff, and so we look around,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: we case it and there's a little i don't know,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: fourteen foot dinghy on top of police horses that had
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: just been painted or something. So we, you know, we think,
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: I think we're creating a major crime here. So we
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: come and crawl in the night this summer night. We
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: steal the boat. We could carry it about down. The
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: two of us put it in. We had a pole
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: we put and we could go through the swamps to
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: this place where I kept where I eventually put the
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: motor on that boat and kept it for about four
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: or five weeks till Billy Hickey decided, a sixteen year
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: old guy, that he hated the fact that we had
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: this boat, and so he climbed up a tree and
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: it took him three drums to jump through the boat
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: and sink it. But it was so o hey. I
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: had already scared myself and I was afraid to take
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: it out on Long Island Sound. You know, there was
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: no way I could go unless I carried it over
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: a major thoroughfare. So, so were you a good student
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: or a bad student? A top second only to Paula Benacasta.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: For six years straight, I was second in my class
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: to this one girl. Well whatever out of paul Paula, Paula,
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Sixth grade, we moved to Yonkers and
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: I went from Catholic school to public school, and uh,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: I never had to study for the next two years
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: because they wait. I was top of my class and
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I had to be first. I had to be, and
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: then you go to they were behind us. I knew
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: everything already, and I could listen in class and it
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: was I could write a little. So but I met
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: my my wife today in the end of the seventh grade.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: But in the eighth grade people ask us how did
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: you meet because we've been married now sixty six years.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I think I threw her in the hedges, and when
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I picked her up, my left hand stroked her breast.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: So when she stood up she had sneakers on. Thank god,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: she just raised it. She is long, she's a little
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: taller than me. She just kicked me right in the chin.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: So I said, that's how we met. That's very theatrical
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: and it's fun. But it took me another, i don't know,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: four months, five months to eventually start to be able
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: to date her, which is go to the movies on
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Saturday afternoon or whatever. And then all through high school.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Then I was in theater in high school. Oh god,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I went to high school. I was a juvenile delinquent basically,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I really was. And I went to Archibishop Stepinac High
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: School in White Plains, but it was right on the
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Scarsdale border. It was ritzy kids that wanted to go
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: to a Catholic school, so it was high end Catholic school.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: The second year, they put me in a shop, you know,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: And I went to the dean of studies and I said,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: I'm a smart guy. I don't want to be He says, well,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: i'll give you a month. I'll put you in the
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: regular classes. I want to see your grades, so your
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: teacher is going to give a report on you. And
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: of course I did good, so now I'm in. Then
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: I would use the idea that you know, they had
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: taken me from juvenile delinquency to being an upstanding citizen,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: so because it made them feel good about themselves. The meantime,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I could get away with anything, and pretty soon I
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: go out for football in my sophomore year, and I'm good.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: I'm a little guy now, but I mean I was
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: one sixty five five eight. I was the second fastest
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: kid in a hundred yard dash. I have it was
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: at the top. I just loved it. And then I
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: got destroyed at the end of my junior year my shoulder.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Back then, they didn't have a good operation for it.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: My shoulder would dislokate chronically, so I had to quit. Okay,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: now cut quick major bows with the name I don't
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: know if you've ever heard of, but I heard of him. Yeah,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: he donated a Broadway lighting board to our theatrical program.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: And uh so, who's the comedian of god? Great comedian
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: had a TV show. I'm imitating him. The teacher doesn't
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: show up, and I'm standing on the teacher's stool, you
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: know chair. I got a comb under my thing, and
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: I'm doing and this this comedian's bit of the Sue
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: dayton Land speech that hitled me. I said, I you know,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: I'm and in walks the priest I guess he was
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: who was in charge of the theatrical program. So he
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: sees me doing this, right, he says, so you like
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: to be in theater? I mean I said no, no, no,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I just was kidding around. I trying to entertain the
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: guys while we were waiting. Said no, no, three o'clock
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: be in the theater and Major Bows theater. It was
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: serious stuff. The year before me, when I was a junior,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: the senior that played in the thing was remember the
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: movie with I'm Walking Here, the two of them, Yeah, yeah,
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Dustin Hoffman, John Voight. John Voight was the guy that
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: was the lead in our play at school. And the
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: year before him, the guy that played in the TV
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: show that was about Vietnam, and they were both doctors,
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: gallad Aldo. He won it that year and each of
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: them got a scholarship to Catholic University for theater. I
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: got it, but I unfortunately I was the tin man
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: in the Birds of Oz. I had no control over so.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: But but they still said you could go there. And
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: so I go to my dad and I say, I
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: don't know, Dad, I wanted to go to Georgetown, but
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: I got this thing I could go with. You know,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: study acting. You you're too short to be an actor. So, okay,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: a couple of things I could go on all day.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: That's good management is an entrepreneurial business. Were you doing
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: entrepreneurial business things before you graduate from high school? You
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: have a paper route? I did. I did a lot
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: of stuff. Yeah, So what the best thing I could
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: tell you is while I was Georgetown, I had when
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I was sixteen, you could, first of all, you could
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: drink in New York and Washington at eighteen. When I
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: was sixteen, I looked eighteen. So I used to love jazz,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Like I went and see the Moudern Jazz Quartet in
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: New York City, and you know, I would take my
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: girlfriend like we were older people are going to see.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: And when I got to Georgetown, I found out that
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: it was the hickest hick city. I mean you look
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: in the newspaper for some music to hear, and you
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: see guy Lombardo's at the Shoreham Hotel. But nothing like
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: what I was used to. So, Charlie, I was number
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: one in my in our class and number one at
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Harvard Business School later and became a billionaire. And anyway,
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: that guy, well, what's Charlie's last name, Charlie Rossotti. Okay,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: the billionaire. I can't swear to but the number one
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of money, number one in his class, I
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: guarantee you, and I think he is a billionaire. So
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: he says to me, Bobby, this town doesn't have any music.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's terrible. You know, maybe we should do
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: And he comes up with the idea, we should do
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: an intercollegiate jazz festival at Georgetown. Now that excited me.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: He went back to studying. Doesn't mean I give him
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: credit for the whole idea was his, but I actualized it.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I went out, I never have been, never been on
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: a plane. I bought myself the cheapest briefcase I could.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: I put a newspaper in it. I go into associated
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: booking in New York. On taking my first plane flight,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: I go to Sea Oscar Cohen. I say, I would
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: like I'm doing this, and I explained the jazz festival.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: We've gotten tapes from all over the country. The program
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: director of the number one jazz station in Washington helped
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: us pick out and whittle it down to four bands.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to need to be to do a concert
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: and be a judge along with the other judge, and
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: then it's a long story. But so I go in
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: to osk her and try to act like and he
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: he's enamored with the whole thing and is helpful. And
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: I happened to say to him, my wife told me,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: don't tell this story, but I'm gonna tell it anyway.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: I see Jesus that your secretary out there. I mean
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: she is like I mean, she's like a movie star.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: I mean she's beautiful. Oh you like her? He presses
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: his intercome. He says, June, come in here. She walks in.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: He said, June, show Bobby tits. So she takes one
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: button I'm horrified to do. And then and then it's
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: part of a gag they do, so it's not like
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: it was fine. And then he played with me the
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: whole time. I tried to talk him, and I said,
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: kind of, what would I cause me to have for
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Baltimore on Friday night if he's going to play for
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: me on Saturday night? He said, what are you going
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: to do? I said, well, there's a theater and I've
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: seen jazz there before. He says, you want to promote him?
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah, So I did and lost money and
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't have my way away.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: Let's stop for a second. You're gonna do the jazz
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: festival at Georgetown.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do it.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Where's the money coming from? What do you mean did
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Georgetown provide the money?
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: No? I don't know where I got the down payment
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: for Dave. Maybe we've sold tickets in advance. I can't remember.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: It's not important. We got the money. Dave brewbec costs
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: ten grand. It wasn't like going to break. You have
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: to come up with five grand for the agency. And
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: that's it. We did everything, and we used Georgetown. I
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: mean we used their gym. We sold it out. It
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: was fantastic. It was just the biggest thing. But I got,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, the greatest an R executive of all time,
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: John Hammond. John Hammond, thank you. See I don't even
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: have to struggle. John Hammond agreed to come. I got
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Columbia to give a record. The first prize is or
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Columbia Records recording contract for at least one album. John
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: Hammond came. So Dave brew Beck, John Hammond and the
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: head of the guy who was the helped us from
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: the radio station, who was the program director of the
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: jazz station. Those three guys were the judges. We sold
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: the thing out. I worked so hard for two days.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: When I was going with my wife and some friends,
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: I had to go up some stairs. I fell face forward,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: just passed out. I was so tired I hadn't been
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: to bed. But it was successful. So then the next
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: year we did it, and the guy who won that year,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: fifty years later, I get a letter, and you know,
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: you think i'd remember his name, but I don't. It's
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: in here somewhere, but he sends a letter fifty years
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: since I won in a collegiate jazz festival, and I
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: made five records with John Hammond at Columbia, and then
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: thirty records after that with my own label. I always
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: wonder what would have happened in my career if a
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: nineteen year old kid at Georgetown University didn't think it
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: was a good idea to put it. And it wasn't
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: my idea, it was Charlie's idea. But doesn't matter. I
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: had a lot to do with it. Let's say, that's
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: for sure, So there it is. I mean, that's how
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: I was already nuts for the business when Dave Brubeck
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: played for me in Baltimore, which he did. I didn't
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: have the next five grand for him that night because
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: it wasn't successful at all. He said, if you promise
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: not to tell Oscar, I'm going to waive this five thousand.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: That's what kind of guy he was.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so as you can see now, if you
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: really wanted to do this, it would take about a week.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I want to go back for a second. So the fifties,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: there's do wop, there's a street corner singing in Brooklyn.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Were you a jazz guy or were you into all
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: of that stuff? I was a jazz guy until I
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: heard my first folk music stuff.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: That's how I got in remember or see, you got
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: to know I opened the nightclub.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: We're going slower than that. Just when the fifties, when
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: you're in high school and you're in college, is it
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: just basically.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: Jazz, jazz, classical music, a little bit of opera. And
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: then when I think I was my first music and
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: sex connection came with somewhere there's music by Les Paul
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: and Mary Ford. Are you familiar with that? Yeah, it's
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: the first over dubbing the sound. I'm a Bronx beach
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: and pool and I hear this when music like, oh
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: my god, I guess somehow I got like Goosebumps. I
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: was all excited about it. I think I began to
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: love pop music right at that time. But things like
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Elvis and whatever, the early stuff. I liked all that,
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: but it was just jazz because I could read a
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: little music and play the marimba. Obviously, the first band
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: I went to see in New York was what the
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: fucking Modern Jazz Quartet? So, okay, what are you studying
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: at Georgetown? Well, first I go to the School of
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Foreign Service for one year and work at the CIA
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: at night six months investigation. They offer to pay for
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: me to go to graduate school when I'm finished, be
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: part of their program work at night through college, and
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: eventually I sit there and go my uncle. My uncle
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: Marris was the cable secretary of the CIA, so stuff
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: from all over the world came to him. He had
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: to decide who had to read it fast, so the
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: other uncle was in charge of Oh, I get so
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: many stories. So they're both in college, and they're both
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: good students, top students their junior year. Towards the end
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: of the third year, and they just get put in
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: the army, and as my uncle Morris says, and then
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: in the inimitable style because I'm fluent in Italian. They
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: put them behind the lines in China to report on
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Japanese troop movements. But he was in the OSS right
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: when the war ended, the OSS turned into the CIA,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: and he stayed with it and eventually became a top executive.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: So did the other uncle, my mother's brother.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: So you're one year in foreign service school.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Then what happens? I realized that this has been a race.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: I lose my second semester. I shouldn't go on these tangents.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: I lose the second semester in a poker game to
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: a custler. I find out who becomes my friend. What
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: will you mean? You lose the money for it? Okay,
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: it wasn't that much in those days, maybe twelve hundred
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: bucks or something. I don't know. So I call my grandmother,
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: the one that's sophisticated. Un tell it. There's nobody I
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: could tell. I'd lost my commission indision. My father if
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: he survived it. He so anyway, I said I. She said,
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: all right, what are you going to do? I said,
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get a job in the summer. I
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: got it, I got it covered. Let's stay at Uncle
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: Joe's house. So it won't cost me anything, and I'll
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: make the money and i'll give it to you by
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: the time I go start school back in school, and
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: I did. It all worked out. But I also became
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: friends with this Japanese Chinese guy, you know, always beautiful
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: silk shirts, handkerchief stuffed in his sleeve. And he went
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: around taking a course or two and graduate schools at
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: rich universities and played poker. That's what he did. Yeah,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: an interesting guy. Got some pretty amazing stories. I got anyway,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: So now I go into the College of Arts and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Sciences and I go into pre med I won't bore
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: you when I get to whatever it is, something organic chemistry.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: You knew it. Oh boy, I went to college, I know.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well that's separates the doc from the NOD doc. Yeah.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: So the guy takes a book, this stick, and he
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: shows me it's full of these equations that are scientific equations.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: He basically you got to just memorize this book. Well,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: I tried to steal the test with my best buddy.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: We escaped. I failed. That was it. So meantime I
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: took because of my interest, I took a semester of
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: studying the Constitution in the graduate school because I was
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: so fascinated by the Constitution. So I went the next year.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: After I failed organic chemistry, I became a government major whatever.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: So you know, so now I'm twenty one. First, I'll
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: go for that. I gotta so it's I'm entering my
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: fifty year. My father's paying for it. I marry, I
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: get married. She I cannot allow my father to have
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: to keep paying for me. I'm a married student. I
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: got to figure something out. I'm not gonna go to
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: So I don't want to go to law school part
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: time and work at the CIA. I want to go
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: full time. I know what I'll do. This town needs
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: a fucking nightclub. Play folk music and rock and comedians,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: a little bit of jazz. You know. I knew the marketability,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: and it turned out to be the biggest home run
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: you could imagine.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of things. You're a Georgetown. What is
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: your wife to be doing for those four years?
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Well, she's first of all, she was she ended up
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: the secretary to the executive director of the CIA. She
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: went in as some colonel's secretary and they just moved
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: it right up because she's brilliant. Okay, and she took
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: cash at the club when we opened it on Friday
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: and Saturday night. Okay, did you ever go to law school? No? Okay,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: I had no interest. I mean when I just had
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: to do something, you know, you just programmed to do something. Well,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: what happened was I opened the nightclub.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: For a little bit sooner. It was cheaper then, but
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: still you got to find a place. You got to
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: pay the rant you I could. Where did all that
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: money come from?
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, ten thousand from my dad, ten thousand from her dad, Okay,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: ten thousand from the beer guy. I said, I knew
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: the lure to my club would be the folk, the jazz,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: the rock, the comedians. So I figured, if I for
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: the guy will give me ten grand, because I'm desperate
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: to I can't get ten. Twenty grand is great that
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: they gave me that, but it wasn't enough. So the
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: beer guy gave me ten or fifteen I forget which
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: if I promise to just serve his beer? Right? And
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: then I got five from the cigarette machine. Mafia Day,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: and now I'm ready to open. I have mimigraphed. All
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: my friends at school are excited about this. There so
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: they've blanketed the town with opening things, so on and
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: so forth, and all of a sudden a guy from
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: the city comes in and he's inspecting and goes. He says,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: I can't give you a certificate of occupancy. Your kitchen
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: is not on the same level as the level that
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: your place is. You know, I'm obviously screwing the language up,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: but you understand. So I call my uncle Hugo in
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: New York and I say, if the mafia runs the
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: restaurant supply business in New York pretty much, who does it?
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: And he says, no, it's the Jews there. I said, oh.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: He says, you could talk to him. So I go
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: to this guy and I start pleading, and I tell
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: him about the Hungry Iron San Francisco and he just
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: served coffee and the Bitter End in New York, and
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: I going to do that. I'm listen and I'm showing.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: He says, okay, he gets his buddy. They drive to
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: my place and they see I said, I exposed a brick.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: I took all the plaster off myself so that with
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: the back of the had a brick wall like the
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: heaven the Hungry Eye, you know, the whole bullshit. I'm
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: doing it, and the guy puts me in the headlock,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: the big guy. Oh, by the way, the guy was
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: a six foot three Jewish guy. Puts me in the headlock,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: and he has his friend with him. Oh yeah, he
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: brought his friend. He says, you see this kid, This
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: kid thinks I'm going to give him thirty five five
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars. That's what I needed to live up to
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: the thirty five thousand dollars worth of equipment. Now, granted,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: this is the most like I almost lost my breath selling,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: but he yanks me a couple of times. He says,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: you know what, I'm going to give it to him,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: And so I wanted to kiss the guy, you know.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: So he and I paid him back, and I swear
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: to God it was I don't think it was two
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: months and it was like that. Now there's another story
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: that was my fifth year. My senior year, there was
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: a rule at Georgetown that you needed to go to
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: a retreat where you didn't speak and you did religious
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: stuff for three days and you had to go before
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: you could get your diploma if you were Catholic. So
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: I obviously put it for the last weekend because I
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: was a busy guy with a nightclub on a Wednesday.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: My wife has a miscarriage and it's a big deal
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: to us. Were we really wanted a childhood, you know,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: no matter how young we were. So I wasn't going
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: away for the weekend and she was distraught. So I
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: go to the Dinas studies. Who is this guy? Like
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: a movie star? And I used to see him with
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: his convertible top down, his golf club sticking out of
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: the back seat, and he says, you get your diploma
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: when you go next. I said, they don't have any
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: now next fall. You have to wait till then because
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: you didn't do what you're supposed to do. And I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: use explotives which I won't bar were you with? And
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: gave him the finger and left. And that was that.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: I never graduated Georgetown. I don't have a degree. You
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: can still go back. Who cares? So what's the name
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: of your club? The Shadows? It was successful. It became
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: the Cellar Door. The Cellar Door was a bar next door.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: When I went back to New York to be a manager,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: I sold it to Jack Boyle, but I wouldn't give
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: him the name in case I wanted to go back
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: in business. So he called it and made a giant success.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: You know, Cellar Door Productions. Okay, you're going to open
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: how do you get the word out Mimmi Graf and students?
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: Do you know how excited it was, How excited the
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: guys were that we were doing this. I mean they
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: every college, any any place, every bar, and the guys
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: who are trying to throw them out, but they would
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: go into bars that we covered the city. Trust me.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: Opening day was my opening act was a kid named
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: Don Lease, who is a black folk guy, had a
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: little bit of feel to it. He was pretty good.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: So he was the headliner, and the opening act was
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Bill Cosby, a new comic. And I had been taken
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: under my their wing by the guys who owned the
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: famous club in Chicago two one big restaurant and a
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: big club. Famous two guys, two Jewish guys. They told me,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: don't listen to see don't listen to Associated booking or anybody.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: We're going to do our own contract. We take an
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: unknown we're going to get three more plays at certain prices.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: So on the time they so I flew to Chicago.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: Mister Kelly's you heard of it, I've heard of it.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: I don't really know, Okay, So I did what they said.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: So I had Cosby three more times after that, and
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: he had that. He almost became famous in six months
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: from then and then it was like you couldn't get
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: in my club. When he played by the Way as
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: a young comic comic, he was the best I'd ever
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: seen before or since.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, A couple of questions. Obviously, you have the food
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: in the beverage. Was there an admission fee every night
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: or only for big acts?
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: No, there was a it was a minimum. Yes, we
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: had like I don't know, maybe a steak was two fifty.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine what the price was. But there was
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: a cover charge, like there was a little something. So
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: if you just went in and had a beer, you
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: still had to pay. But it wasn't much. It was
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: and it was remotely successful. I was full all the time.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, I was.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, who did the booking me? So what you learn
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: in that process?
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: Oh? I thought I was learning the music business. And
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean even though I hired comedians in
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: like I have lovely stories to tell of Jackie Mason.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: You know who that is. Of course, so the first show, Yeah,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: I bring him. I buy him for the The agency says,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: you know, Jackie, you could put him during the holiday,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: the Jewish holiday. I think that's usually about a two
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: week gig. He do. So he comes and he's a
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: wonderful man, it turns out. But so I had expanded
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: my club to where the people that came in would
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: have to go up a flight of stairs, and there
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: was a bar and a big area for tables to sit,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: so that if I had a full house downstairs, I
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: could the people who were waiting could be drinking and waiting.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: And then we had a doorway onto the street, so
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: the people downstairs wouldet pushed out the front door, and
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: these people would go. Okay. So I'm sitting on the steps,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: which was a great way to enter. You know, people
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: could be seen and you. So anyway, I'm sitting on
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: the steps looking at the crowd just before the show,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, Jackie comes down before he's
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: supposed to go on soon. I don't know him. He
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: sits down. So, mister, you're you're the owner? I said, yeah,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: he said, what is the father owner? And you just
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: help him? No, no, this is mine. How old. Are
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: you twelve? You know? So he does that, then he
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: puts his arm around me. I'll never forget it. He's
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: such a wonderful guy. Oh God, I guess he's gone now.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: But anyway, he says, you see those per people. He says,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: I can see you just sitting here thinking of all
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: the money you're going to make. And he says, you
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: know what, You're not going to make that much money.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: I go, really why, he says, because they're Jews, they
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: don't drink. Don't tell me the truth. Do you make
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: your money on booze or do you make your money
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: on food? I said on booze. He said, well, they're
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: not going to drink, but they're going to enjoy the show.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: You make a few bucks, but don't get excited. He
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: was great, He loved he He would go alright, he
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: would shake his head. Does your mother know you're here?
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: He was great. I had a lot of fun with God.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: I had Stan Getz and Astro Gilberto. I had all
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: kinds of you know anything I wanted to hear. I
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: just booked it. We were so sure we were going
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: to sell every seat. That's the way it was. Then
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: I opened one in Virginia Beach. I rented it for
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: three months. Eleven hundred seats. That's big for a clay Yeah,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: but it's the summer place, and where are they going
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: to go at night? So it worked out great for me.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: But more importantly, I took ten nights. I should have
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: taken only seven, but I took ten nights of a
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: geodesic dome they had. I was fascinated by geodesic domes.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: You can build them for very little money and you
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: have an arena. So I had Little Stevie, Wonder Ray, Charles, Peter,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: Paul and Mary big folk group. I had about seven
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: out of ten with slam Doug home runs. Then I
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: had Theodoric call and nobody came. I had a couple
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: of things. Yeah, but okay, so what year did the
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: club open. I'm not sure. Sixty two, maybe sixty one, okay,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: something like that. So sixty one, I'd say, whaty how
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: old am I? Sixty one? Okay? This folk boom starts
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: around then, Yes, I was already into the folk boom,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: so I was in early Okay, So is everything selling
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: at your club or is one specific thing hot? No?
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Everything I mean I made, I don't know maybe I've
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: forced people to like occasionally, you know, like I had
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: the Modern Jazz Quartet. That was an expensive gig, and
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: I wanted them to be there. Whether they but we
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: had enough people every weekend, So how many nights a
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: week we opened seven? No? No, no? Saturday night at
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: twelve there was a of those old laws that no
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: longer exist Sunday you couldn't serve boothe blue laws, blue
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: law right. And as a matter of fact, that was
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: That's another great story. I had an office upstairs. It
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: was great, and it came part of the property. During
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: that time in history, there were a lot of things
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: that the hippies and the folk people would come to
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: Washington to protest or to try. Yeah, all those things.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure, I was on Saturday night at twelve o'clock.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: They had no place to go. They came to my club. Eventually, eventually,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: but at the beginning I put them in my office
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: and I would go there. I mean, I mean, you see,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: who's the guy that was first, the mentor of Bob Dylan.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: Would he got three no, Pete Seeger peat Seger would
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: come and Pete plays guitar in my office. People would
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: hang out Bob's girlfriend. That is the next zonned bias
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: shown by us. All of those people were there, and
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: I'd keep my bartender around Marvin because he liked being
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: there with him, and I said, I'll give you some money,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: don't worry, but take care of these people. And I'd
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: sit in there and just like, oh my god, this
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: is the greatest thing. I'd just be quiet, not interfere
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: and watch them enjoy themselves. And they didn't leave until
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: sun up. Okay. On how big was most capacity your club?
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: I don't remember the biggest. I don't know, maybe three hundred. Okay.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: Club economics were its own thing. But once you got
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: to concerts, once you know fifteen hundred, the economics were different. Today,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: if you can sell every ticket, the act gets ninety percent,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: but back then the act didn't even get fifty. Maybe,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think they did, but I think I
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: remember paying a fee against sixty, but I'm not sure.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Okay, So how does is this morph
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: into management? Well, because The Shadows was sort of music
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: music business central, right, uh? John Phillips, Ah, Mama Mama Cass.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: I I even managed Mama Caster for a while. John
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: Phillips Scott McKenzie, Denny Darty. Uh, they're all people who
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: hung out at my club, came in and drank free,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: and I looked after him. They played, they didn't play,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: They whatever they wanted to do, and I'm I'm leaving
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: out a bunch. So it was actually it was actually central.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: I tried to manage cass and I eventually I did,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: but I won't spend a lot of time on that.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: I wanted her to be singing the Great American Songbook
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: and tell jokes in between in Greenwich Village. This is
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: after I had sold the club and moved to New York.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: My first thing to do was that I was going
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: to make her. I had an idea that she could.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: She made me laugh so much. I said, you know
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: the way you sing those songs, that your version of
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: them would feel fresh, and if in between you talk
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: and we develop you a pattern. Anyway, I got her
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: in the place where where the most famous singer woman,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: not folk, you know, the pop singer, the movie actress, everything,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: big star, biggest star, Barbara streisand the club she started
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: in Vensviella. I got that club. I got all the
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: press to come and poor casts. I was bad it's
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: my fault. She wasn't ready and she bombed and that
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: was that. And then I helped her get a ticket
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: to Saint John's Island where John Phillips and and uh,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: you know I had a group called the Mugwumps that
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: had casts and anyway, it's like in the song Creek Allery.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So what's the transition you become a manager for.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: I'm walking down the street. I have two properties and
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: this big guy that looks like a Southern sheriff that's overweight,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: you know in the old time movie. Yeah, yeah, sure, Oh,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: because my wife and I are walking and he goes,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna have to get a new, one,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: new deal together. Your contracts run I mean the lease
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: is running out. I'm gonna have to get a piece
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: of your business. And Judy and I were talking about
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: buying a home and where president uh well some president
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: lives up in Maryland right northern, right near the and
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: we we actually bought a lot, and we had the
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: plans for a film, you know, And I said, and
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: I had been debating. I said, what if we just
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: blowed us, I sell everything and we go to New York.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Fine with me, it's like that. We sold our property
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: and our plans for a house and took off and
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: the guy who bought it, he unfortunately didn't succeed in
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: Jack Boyle, who bought I had two I had two buildings,
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: so Jack bought the smaller one and then put a
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: second level on it, which added to the size of it,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: and was able to do really good business, and then
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: he became the big concert promoter that he became.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, when you're done, done, done, did you make any money?
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, you mean in the sale? No? No, the
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: sale was I made money. The money I made was
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: I was able to go to New York and consider
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: buying a Brownstone. So not today's prices four hundred million,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: forty million, But no, I was fine. We bought a
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: house in Chappaqua in New York, which was a mistake.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: But you have just interested why it's a mistake. My
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: wife called me. We had two little kids. Well, do
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: you know who our next door neighbor is? I go, no,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: I'm in my office. Fifty eighth and sixth can't be
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: better parking. I pull down fifty eighth and go into
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: a parking garage thirty five dollars a month. I walk
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: a half a block to my office. I'm a block
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: from Central Park. I go to spread. The New York
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: Athletic Club is on the other corner. I'm in Heaven.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: Do you know who our next doll neighbors? And I said, no,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: I have no idea money. She says, he's the president
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: of the CBS, not the record company. The president of
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: the CBS. He says, there isn't a fucking excuse, my friends,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: there's a fucking baby carriage in this whole place. Where
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: did you put me? And we weren't happy. So now
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: we go to an apartment. And the only way we
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: can solve it is the only place. I say, I'm
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: going to buy a brownstone in the West Village. I'm
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: not raising my children in New York City because the
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: only way we can compromise. And by the way, Toohn
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: Sebastian was moving to California. I said, what the hell, wall,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: I'll go to California. So I said we could go
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: to California. We spend the weekend. Mo Austin takes us
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: this is Sherman Oaks and see, you know, this is Tarzana,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: this is whatever. And then they take us to Brentwood,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: and I say pick Brentwood and Judy Pickstarzana and she
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: said there were nice houses and there were people. I
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: saw people with kids, so we okay, But you cash
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: out in d C. You moved to New York. What
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: do you think you're going to do in New York? Manage?
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: But she took me love and spoonful? No, no, no,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: what happened first? Were you a manager? Lovin smoof forward?
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: You move to New York?
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: No, I don't know. I think John Sebastian and I
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: had already agreed we were going to get together. I
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: don't really know. Okay, Okay, so I had enough money
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: to live. Okay, you keep thinking about the money. I'm
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: just on motivation too. But how do you meet John Sebastian?
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: I fired him. That's how it happened. I had I
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: had this group called the Mugwumps. You may have heard
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: of him in churstr Okay, I'm surprised. So they didn't
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: have a good enough guitar work and my opinion, so
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: I said, find me a guitarist that can add some
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: balls to this thing. Zali tells me about You know,
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: Sally's a great guitarist, but he plays lead lines, and
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: I need some thumping, you know. He brings John. He
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: calls John Sebastian. I eat him. So he's there and
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: he's he begins to influence Zali. He said, Now Zali's
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: playing blues. I'm looking for to make money, you know,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: and I'm not making some high falutin musical thing. And
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: he's taken him the wrong way. So I had promised
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: John three weeks work to get him to come out.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: The end of the first week, I said to him, John, listen,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: I got here two weeks more. Pay. I'm not going
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: to screw you out of that, but I don't want
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: you influencing Zali anymore. I'm going to lose whatever my
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: plan was for this group. He said. He was so
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: taken by the fact that I was paying him. He says,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: would you like to hear some of my music? He
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: said absolutely. So, you know, the chairs are going up
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: on top of the table. When they mopped the floor,
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: I put one light on him. He goes up there
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: with a super reverb, gets up and he plays to
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: warm up. He plays, so I wish I could remember.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: It's funny, you know, it's like a standard issue rock
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: and roll song. Then he sings sounded like an old
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: black lady, and he said, if you are wondering what
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do while you are sleeping, am I sleeping? Two? Well,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: I'm just sitting here loving you, sitting back, sitting here. Anyway,
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going, oh, what is this stuff? And it's it's
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: black music from a time when it was It wasn't
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: like R and B or something. It was American folk, real,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: the real music. And I saw his influences and I said,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: you have more of that stuff. He started playing all
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: kinds of stuff, and he says, I'm writing songs. I'm
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: going to write an album, and when I'm done, I
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: like to talk to you. I said, okay, and I'm
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: thinking right, goodbye and good luck. So he leaves and
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: eventually he calls me. He says, I'm working with this guy,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: Eric Jacobson. He's going to produce it. We're going to
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: put a group together. Well, he'd like you to manage.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: So I think I had already got to New York
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: when that happened, But all this happened in Washington, and
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: somehow eventually I moved into Eric Jacobson's front room. He
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: had a one bedroom apartment on ninety seven McDougall Street,
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: and that was my first office, and I was helping
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: the Spoonful come together. Eric picked a drummer and bass
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: player whom I never approved of. The drummer but anyway,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: so he did well. But John would come out of
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: a filed John was going one speed on their way
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: in and one another speed on their way out. You
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's I don't know if you okay.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: So how does Zalyonovsky become part of the group, Well,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: he was part of the original four. John and Zali
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: were a combination that wanted to work together. So I
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: was part of that. I managed Ali, I had. I
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: was very instrumental in it. I'm making It's just the
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: bass and drums were got by Eric, and God bless him.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: I think the bass player was great, and so was
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: the drummer. He was our high harmony, so we needed.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, they go to work with Eric. Is that the
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: initial material that comes out or is this before the
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: initial material?
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: No, they go to work with Eric. They're writing the songs,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: say John has written. When he wrote we first couple
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: of songs, we were waiting and then he wrote do
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: you believe in magic. I had them working at a
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: headshop that they had a big, good size room on
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: McDougall Street, and I said to the guy, listen, let
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: them rehearse here. It'll bring business in for you. And
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: you know, and that's where do you believe in magic?
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: Came from with it. So they're rehearsing. There's a little
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: stoned out sixteen year old girl. She's swirling, she's dancing too,
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: and John is inspired by what he's saying, how she's
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: moved by the music, and he writes the line, do
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: you believe in magic? Any young girl's heart out of
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: music and free or whenever it starts and it's magic anyway.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: That's how he told me. That's what inspired him to
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: write that. That girl in that headshop, you know, stoned out.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: The little girl smoked a joint or whatever. And it
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: wasn't anything serious, but he was great. John and Johnny
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: wrote those songs and some are in the city. If
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: you remember, there was a big hit, right but didn't
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: somebody's brother Johnny's brother, right, Yeah, But before we get there,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: hold on a second. So they're writing the songs, are
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: working with Eric. What comes first, the record deal or
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: the recording a recording of Do You Believe In Magic,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: which I think is going to get me a record deal.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: And I want you to know I didn't know how
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: in how underwhelming I was, because I got turned down everywhere,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: including Colombia. I wanted Columbia Records. I sat outside for
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: two days outside the head of A and R the
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: young schmuck that was there, and he wasn't listening to
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: my demo. And then and there was one guy I
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: forget his name, he wanted to buy. But then when
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: we made the deal, the deal was so unfair. I
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: said no, I didn't know how bad it was going
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: to get. Eventually I had to make a deal with Charlie,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: famous guy, Charlie and Don Rubin. We were going to
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: start a label. That's the way I solved it, right.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, we'll do a label and the four
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: of us are going to be in it. Charlie hooks
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: me up with some guy who's a distributor who has
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: maybe New Jersey or something, very sort of suspect, and
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: we're in the studio fixing do you Believe? Like I
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: believe that's putting it on the end. I think we
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: were doing a video and it's going to be I
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: forget the name of my company, but it had something
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: to do with horses. You know. Cavallo means horse, so
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: I had a name for it. And we're sitting listening
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: to a playback and I'm here, John is right next
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: to me, Sebastian, and this guy comes in. It's the
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: distributor who has jersey or whatever he has. That's supposed
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: to be our guy that's going to sell the records
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: for us, distribute the records. And he hears John singing
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: and he says, Jesus, it's a good song, but you
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: got to You could go down the street get three
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: black girls to sing better than this guy. And John
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: says to me, what did you get me into? You
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: know whatever? I had to cancel it instantly. So now
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: these guys are my partners. They're a production entity. I'm
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: the stupid manager who's really been inefficient in getting the
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: band the deal they deserve. So we go finally to
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: their friend whatever that label is. Now I'm a searcher
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: records already, rip right, Why he's okay, he's a real
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: music guy. That much I can say. But you know
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: they were selling records when they called one guy selling
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: them out of the trunk of his car for at
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: work for the distributor for Common Searcher records, selling you know,
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: on his own. You know, we were shortchanged. So the
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: group suffered because I was their manager in some ways,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: not creatively. I helped a lot in the show and everything,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: but I.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, but usually the act wouldn't have made.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: It except for the manager. Yeah. Well there's a good
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: chance of that too, because not only did I do it,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: but I had money, so they were able to survive
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: without having to sell their souls for some way.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, so do you believe in magic becomes an instant hit?
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not instant, believe me, but okay, yeah, pretty quick.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, well you could tell your version, because all I know,
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: I'm listening to the radio.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: It took We had quite a while. I was trying
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: to go. I think I went to Detroit and tried
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: to be very friendly with a program director. But then
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: I got a break. I can't think of his name.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: A wonderful guy who is a manager. He says, I
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: got a buddy in San Francisco. He's the program director
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: of the biggest station there. He owns a nightclub. If
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: you get the spoonful in there. If you give him
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: two weeks or the spoonful, he'll break your record. He'll
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: do it. So I take them. Honey, it's my money.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: I fly us out, no problem. They go in. Sebastian says,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: what did you get me into? I said, what do
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: you mean? He says that rehearsal. They had two girls
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: in these cages hanging on us, on each side of
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: the stage, topless and so on. I said, well, I
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: don't know this, but anyway, I finally I think I'll
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: take them out for a day. I want to see
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: the Mount tam So we go in the car and
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: we drive, and we're in the car, I'll never forget it,
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: and we hear the Beach Boys and we're singing to
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: the Beach Boys and the next time he has a
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: new one, a love and smomfold. I had to be stopped.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I started driving so fast and we're going
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: down the hill. The ocean is here. We could die,
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: you know, So I slowed it up. I caught myself
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: and we just went nuts. It was exciting, and that
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: guy played it like he said he would, and people responded.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: And then somebody heard it in La so they played
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: it on LA station and there was this big outdoor
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: gig that had multiple artists on it, and they quickly
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: put us on it. So I drove us. After we
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: finished the gig there, we drove down and played this
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: other thing and we didn't come back for a couple
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: of months, and we were helping the record break, you know.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, do you remember why it was called The Love
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: AND's Moonful?
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I asked John that I hated the name, as
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: you probably guess, I don't remember. It's terrible.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: I should remember, Okay, I mean I remember the hits,
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: but I don't remember the order. But once you get
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: in the door with do you Believe In Magic?
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: The next one is it was written by the bass player.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: I can't remember the name of it.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: It was cute, but there was younger Girl, there was
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: Nashville Cats, there was Darling B. Holmes.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: Soon It's good good. But the other one is Summer
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: in the City. That's that was our third single, first
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: number one, no second number one. But the second record
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: was butch'ston or where you Didn't have to Be So Nice? Okay,
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: so that's the first one You didn't have to be
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: so nice? Summer in the city and then I don't know. Okay,
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: they all were HiT's nine in a row. Okay, once
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: you have that amazing success, are the doors open or
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: you're starting at zero with the next track? No, we
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: the doors were open. People knew they were something. We
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: went on TV. I think that helped a lot. Not
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: great because they's such Do you remember what TV they did? Yeah,
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: the you know, the guy I don't like, Ed Sullivan. No,
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: we did Ed Sullivan, but later we did the guy,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: the rock and roll guy, the guy who when Prince
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: when Prince was on with him, he asked the guy
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: asked Prince a question. He said, Damn, I sometimes my
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: shoes are green. Dick Clark, Yeah right, yeah, we did
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: Dick Clark. I don't remember much TV. Actually we did
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: those two shows. Okay, how much are you work in live?
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: Pretty much every second I can get them to do,
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: I get every you know, I got to tell you
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: about a gig that might be good for rock and
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: roll history. Okay, they have one record where I don't
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: even think we had. Do you believe in magic yet? Yeah?
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: We must have, but we weren't big enough to go overseas.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: And the kid who was the heir to the big
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: beer fortune, whatever that beer is. And in England, you
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: know the biggest name I forget well you're thinking Ireland,
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, that stuff right, his twice Guinness. The Guinness
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: family has the twenty first birthday for their son. He's
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: the demands the Love Spoonful play at his party. They
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: pay for everything. We go first class. We land in
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: Dublin and then car takes us. We go and there's
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: a like a police guy at the entrance to their house.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: That's how important is And it takes five minutes to
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: go up the driveway. I'm not exaggerating. I said, what
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: the hell is? He don't have to So we get
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: there and that's it. The Beatles are there, the Stones
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: are there, a lot of rich people are there, very glamorous,
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: and the Spoonful are going to play because that's his
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: favorite band or latest, but his latest favorite band. Joe
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: Butler tries to hit on the guy's mother. There was
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: a million things that happened, but the Spoonful played and
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: it was nice. They were respectfully applauded. People don't understand
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: some of that. American. You know, Johnny has a lot
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: of roots in his stuff. He doesn't just play the hits.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: He has to play his country blues, southern blues. So
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: but it goes good. The young guys are thrilled, they're happy,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: and the bands, the Beetles, are nice. Everybody's nice. And then,
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: aside from the fact that Joe Butler tried to hit
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: on the guy's mother, we leave unscathed. Cut to he
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: blew his mind out in a car. He noticed that
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: the light had changed. That was that guy who we
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: played the foot Oh really yeah, And so it was
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: sad because you know he the car was the oh,
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: they gave him a Ferrari. So the car that he
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: got killed in was the car he got at his
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: twenty first birthday. Now the Spoonful go to the Marquee Club.
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to break them in London. Well, Rock Royalty
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: came to see them. I mean, so, my my college
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: buddy who became famous in the business of publicity, he
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: was my publicist, helped me out with the Spoonful. What's
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: his name, Daniel? Oh? We had in New York City,
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: right right, I suddenly can't remember we ended up me. Yeah,
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: I know you're talking about so he he says, Bob
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: Rock Royalties come to see the band. We gotta give
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: me a credit card. I gotta go get a suite.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: We got to offer them to come back and have
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: a drink and all that. I said, we do you know,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking of the money. He said, yeah, we got
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: to do it. So I said, okay, I'm going to
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: be absorbent, exordinant, and because I know this is going
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: to go crazy, right, so they get us. He goes back,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: gets a sweet gets a bartender and somebody to serve
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: these finger sandwiches they make, and then he comes racing
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: back and he starts inviting everybody, and it was pretty cool.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: Now I got to tell you my experience with John
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: lennont So I two days before this gig, I go
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: to Carneby Street and buy one of those suits, you know,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: double breasted that they were wearing at the time. I
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: want to look like the part, so that's what I
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: have on when I meet John, and I have to
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: immediately go up to John. I say, oh my god,
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: I wanted to meet you. He's with George, and then
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: I meet George. So now later I go take that
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: jacket off and I put a sweater on, and I'm
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: downstairs organizing things, and he sees me, and I see
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: to me, I have any excuse I get. I go
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: to say more because I went in love with John Lennon.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: So then I go upstairs and I'm in a rush.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm all frantic, you know, because this is
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: a big deal for me. And I drink something and
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: I spill I don't know, soda, a colorful thing all
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: over my sweater. So I take that sweater off, and
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: I only have one thing left to put on. I
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: don't want to be with a shirt and tie. I
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: put a I put an orange sweater on. So now
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: I'm boundstairs again. As I go to the elevator to
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: go up. Finally I've done everything I needed. John and Paul,
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not John and Paul, Joe, John and George get
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: on the elevator with me. They come on. John looks
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: at me and he goes, So, Bob, do you change
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: on the quarter on the half hour. It's a true story.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: It's great, Okay, We're in this story, everybody.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: Dolly and by the way, Dolly and John did have
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: a food fight in that hotel, just sweet, just like
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: I thought would happen. But anyway, go ahead, Okay, you're
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: wet behind the years as a manager. But everybody is
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: inventing at the time. It's not like today, people are
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: much more or sophisticated. At what point do you know
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: what you're doing from a creative point of view? I
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: knew what I was doing at the beginning. From a
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: business point of view, I was I was sadly like
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: in the somewhere below the middle of the pack. But
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: you were learning. Yes, I was learning. But Albert Grossman
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: was my mentor. That's another thing I didn't mention.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: Well, tell me that he had a club in Chicago,
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: and then he was managing all these acts, Peter Paul
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: and Mary Dylan, etc. So how did you hook up
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: with Grossman?
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: He came to my club and he was looking for
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: someone to join him to be full time on Bob.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: So he started off. First of all, I got to
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: ask Bob ever player club. No, he was too big already.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would have put him in a concert,
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: but it's too much trouble, right, So Albert was he
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: said He told someone who told me that. He said, No,
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: I like this kid, Cavallo. He's not afraid. That's Albert
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: Grossman's comment. So now I find out. He says, well, look,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: why don't you blow your old lady. He don't know
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: I'm married. I mean, he sell the store, sell your store.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: I'm insulted. Now my fucking place is a store, and
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: come with me. I said, I want to be a manager,
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: but I'm not ready, and this business has got value
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: whatever I say. But I'm thinking if you want to
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: know what I was thinking, because this is what I
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: was thinking, Albert, your left hand doesn't know what your
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: right hand is doing. I don't know that I could
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: be partners with a guy that's that mysterious as you are.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm an open faced Italian American. What's going on?
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: What are the facts? But anyway, so now he pays
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: no attention to me. But meantime, later in my career,
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: he helped me a couple of times. Seriously, big go
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: tell me how he helped you. Well, I'll get to it.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: I got to finish this because it's okay, this will
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: blow your mind. So I get a call. I mean,
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: he's we're having a wonderful weekend. They get a call.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: He says, Bobby and I are at the Shoreham Hotel.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: Why don't you come over and visit. So I think
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: that that's nice. So I go, No, sooner do I
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: walk in. I sit down. Bob's at the table. I'm
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: sitting there, and I said, and we say hello quick,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: not no big thing, and Albert just goes he's gone.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting there. I don't know what to say. And
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: Bob goes, trucks, trucks. I go trucks. He says, yeah,
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: America runs on trucks. If you don't have the whole
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: country depends on trucks. Okay, it's an interesting insight. Now
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: we stare at each other and he lights the joint,
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: passes it to me. Now we're smoking the joint, getting nervous,
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: and I'm smoking the joint more. But so finally I
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: say to him. I may have said other things, but
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: I remember this. I say, oh god, I'm I'm boguarding
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: this joint as I'm sorry. He says, no, that's cool.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: The phone rings. After a couple of minutes, he picks
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: it up and he goes, no, no, I like him.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: He's uh, yeah, he must be honest. He was worried
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: he was smoking too much of the joint. I don't
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: know how what words he put in but that's what
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: he said. And Albert was auditioning me. He paid no
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: attention to the fact that I said I wasn't going
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: to do it. He he thought I could, I would
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: do it. But anyway, it was okay, and he stayed.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: He stayed my mentor he got me to be better
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: at what I did. Albert, he was very kind to me.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: And we visited his house up in zeal uh And,
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: you know Woodstock. Woodstock was filled with American antiques, millions
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: of dollars worth of American antiques. He's that was where
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: he put all his cash. And uh, it was dark.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 2: We had a dinner. I mean, I thought I was
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: in a movie. But Albert was a great guy. He
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: also told me once I said he coming to New York.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I must have been in californiayeah, I said, yeah,
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: I'm coming in. He says, you got to come by.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: So he had an apartment. Went a real nice apartment
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: on Washington Circle whatever in the village, you know the
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: ritzy area right there, right on that circle. Yeah. I
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: go in the house and as usual, it's like a
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: hippie's house. I mean, big beautiful rooms and like one
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: chair and one one and a music something to play
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: the music. And he says, sit down here, and he's
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: obviously proud, and he plays me the band. You know,
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: take a road. I mean, just I say, you, son
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: of a bitch, you got another monster, you know, because
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: you think about the artist he had. They all just anyway, okay,
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: going into him.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: Obviously Dylan ultimately falls out with him.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Robert soul tef is publishing and stuff. It
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: all came down to money, I know, right.
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: But question is once again relative my ewer. Dylan was
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: someone who was known, but Grossman got Dylan's songs covered.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: Would Dylan have made it with his would Grossman's other
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: acts have made it anywhere near this scale if he
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: wasn't involved.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: I never I'm the last guy. I'm maybe too humble,
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: but I discount how much value when a guy is
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: a talented as Bob Dylan is. I mean, his songs
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: blew my mind. Now it didn't. It's not going to
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: make girls like tear their clothes off and scream and
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: all that kind of hysteria, but serious concert business he had,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: no matter who was managing it. I mean, that's what
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: I think. If as long as he made these records. Now,
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: Albert had good tastes. Albert knew what to do in
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: terms of not letting that image that was so valuable.
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: Like you always thought of him as sort of, Oh
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: he's special, Bob Delber. He's not like any other artists,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: he said, So that heroic look at him. Albert protected
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: like he was very well aware of the subtle marketing
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: that he was doing. So I wouldn't take that away.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: I think Albert was brilliant. I mean anyway, Okay, So
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: then Lovin's Moonful hits a crisis with Zallyanovski told us
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: about that. Oh, I'm trying to remember. Boy, those were
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: some great days. I would rent a house. You could
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: do it in the Hamptons. It was on the sea
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: and the front door was just fifty yards from a
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: dock to Myrich's bay, where I had my boat and motor.
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, i'd fly. I had a you could get
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: a seaplane and the East River is around seventy ninth
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: or something. Take me out land right at the thing,
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: and I'd walk my we'd buzz the house. We buzzed
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: the house. My wife got used to it. She'd come
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: out with the nanny and the two kids be on
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: the dock, and I'd get out of the boat. If
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: he had to, he'd pull the boat over, but he
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: never really had to. He just had a perfect and
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: I'd jump out and she'd give me the market list.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: I'd take my son and get in the boat, go
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: across Britches Bay to the market to buy the weekend's groceries.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: I'd go out there on Thursday, I had Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: and I left Monday morning, sometimes Monday morning, sometimes not.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: Those are the greatest days of my life. But anyway,
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: but how did I get on that job we're talking about? Zou? Yeah,
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: Sally thought the stuff got too square, got too precious.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: Remember Johns wrote some songs like Darling Be Home Soon,
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: and that was not Zallyanovsky and he hated. More importantly,
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: it was Eric Jacobson, the producer that he didn't like. Well,
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: he always liked him, but then they fell out. I
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: don't really know the facts. All I know is that
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: he was mutually agreed by John and Zal that he
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: would split. I don't remember why, you know what, I'm
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: not good at this, I don't know. You gotta understand
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: this is like almost fifty years ago. It wasn't there
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: dope involved though, and an arrest, oh the arrest, Yes,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: it was both Zally and Steve got busted by some
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: federal not a local up and they made a big
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: thing out of it, and they investigated him. They put
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: him in jail overnight, and they found out that Zali's
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: father was a Communist from Canada. They threatened to make
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: sure that Zali could never come back in the country.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: They did everything for them to get the dealer that
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: they thought was going to be a mafia guy. I
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: mean the fuck. They were so far behind it the
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: realities of that time. So that's when I went to
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: Albert and he found me a guy in San Francisco. Oh,
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: the lawyer. What's his name? Oh god? Oh yeah, I
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: used to hear from him. He died a couple of
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: only a couple of years ago. Keep going. So we
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: made a deal with the guy who got busted that
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: if he didn't give up, if he took the rap,
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: we'd buy him a truck or I mean, you know,
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: van and give him twenty grand or something and shook hands.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: I did this, I go out. Albert arranged it. So,
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, he was way behind helping me to do this,
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: and he thought this was the best thing if it
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: just let the guy do a little time. It's not
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: going to be serious, it's nothing. It's a couple of
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: bags marijuana. And this lawyer that he got me was
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: going to make sure it was easy time. And then
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: some drug addicted billionaire's son goes to Rolling Stone tells
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: them that this guy, and he convinces this guy to
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: give up the story to Rolling Stone. So even though
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: we'd done all this, the story came out, and I
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: think that's what broke the group up more than anything.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: So then they start it like Zally had problems with
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: I think he had problems with Jacobson or John, and
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: he had problems with John's preci Some of the songs
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: were darling being Home soon scared Zali. I couldn't better
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: wait an extra minute. You know, you can imagine Zali
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 2: that's not his Oh you know who stayed in Zali's
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 2: apartment in Greenish Village when they came to New York. No,
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: John Lennon and his wife really yeah, I mean, no
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: publicity about it, but they hit it off in the UK. Yeah,
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: they loved They had a food fight the two of them.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: They threw those finger sandwiches. They threw them at each other,
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: and I said, oh god, guys, well you don't have
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: to prove yourself. You don't have to prove that you're
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: who you are. Like it's like we all predicted something
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: like this would happen, and then it happened. But okay,
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: John John was so cool. Oh god, I loved him.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: Two questions, One, you're managing the Love and Spoonful? Anybody
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: trying to steal them from you?
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, Okay, there wasn't any issue. Two,
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: you're successful Love and Spoonful? Are you looking at other racks?
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: Are you're managing or I don't know who I'm trying
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: to think. Oh I had I fire were a carpenter
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: and you were a lady.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Tim Harton, Tim Harton, I had him and an
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: overdose of drugs is what stop me. I don't mean
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: the one that killed him. That we're in the studio
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: and my favorite song he wrote it was reasona believe
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: if I listened long enough to find a way to
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: believe that it's all true, was so great. I mean,
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: what a fucking idiot. And I find him in the bathroom.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: Eric's waiting in the studio and I'm sitting watching and
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: I go, I went to hell, is he how long
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: has it come? Finally said, I give him a minute.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: Finally I go and I walk in the bathroom and
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: he's asleep on the toilet with the needle in his arm.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: So I was a little dramatic. Instead of trying to
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: do something about it, I just quit. But I thought
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: he was great with these acts. Did you have paper
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: or was it a handshake at paper? And we didn't
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: have paper? Later? But and what was the percentage? Twenty
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty of gross? Twenty a net twenty of gross? Okay?
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: And when you're at the peak, how many people are
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: working in your office? One o? Well, a girl and
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: Joe Ruffalo. Okaydn't get rid of Joe. So you never
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: had a bit? Okay? So at what point do you
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: sell to that company? Well, they come to us through
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: my lawyer, and I think, well, you can imagine what
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: I thought. I was young enough to be stupid enough
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: to think, Wow, we'd being you know, stock in this
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: company and probably grow and we can we can increase
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: our you know, I'm imagining expanding, buying a record company.
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: I'm I had all these plans and I wasn't ready
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: for it. I wasn't prepared. I wasn't trained really for
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: business on that level. So I should have been a
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: little more worried. But oh, my lawyer, Pete Pryor, that
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: was he's a famous lawyer. But he got. They try
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: to get the money back to thirty grand a month.
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe I owned a nine year maybe
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty grand. They want they thought they owned.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: I said, no, wait, your paper went, your company went broke.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not paying you the money back. So I got.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: I didn't lose anything. It was all right.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, how does it end with the spoonful and John
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: going sould?
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: John breaks when he goes solo. I just naturally say,
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: I'm I mean, he assumed I would go with him,
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: and I did. Okay, you know, he made a nice
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: little career. It wasn't like right.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: But he is nowhere and then all of a sudden
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: he's in the Woodstock movie, which blows him up again.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: You know that story. Tell me. So he's never invited
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: to that show. So he invites me to go with him,
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: and I say, I don't want to plus I'm afraid
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 2: to get on a fucking helicopter or whatever he was
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: going to go on, so I didn't go. Then it
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: rains and whatever. He's up there with his guitar. No,
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: well without his guitar. I think he has to borrow
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: a guitar. They're going around. They don't know what to
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: do because electric instruments you couldn't play in those days,
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: you notice, right, So he goes up and he plays
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: a song that he wrote based on I got to
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: tell you this story. Now you want to hear this? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Okay,
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: we go on. I'm a close friend to John, so
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: look his first wife and me and my wife go
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: with my son Rob. We keep my daughter is with
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: my grandmother, and we take the sun up to the
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: snow and whatever of Vermont or somewhere. He had rented
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: a house, and he says, come and join us, right,
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: So we do. So we had a wonderful day. We're
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: out on something where we try not to kill ourselves
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: and whatever. Now it's dinner, the girls have gone to bed,
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: the kid's gone to bed. Me and John are sitting
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: by the fire smoking the joint, and my son comes
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: out in his little footies for jamas, and I say, John,
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 2: I'll be just a couple of minutes. I'll put him
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 2: back to bed, dude opiously. So he says, oh, no,
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: it's okay, take your time. I go, Robbie goes to sleep.
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: I come back. Now I've been smoking this joint, so
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: I go. You know, John, it's like inevitable. I mean,
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: right now he thinks I'm cool. Ten years he's going
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: to think I'm an idiot. I mean, it's going to
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: be a whole new world. He's gonna think, you know,
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: whatever the hell whatever inside I thought I got whatever,
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: stupid one. And I'm saying things like and John' think
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: John might have said it. I don't know, but you know, like, yeah,
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: they'll they'll be different kinds of like cars. And we're
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: going on on a marijuana uh excursion into the our
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 2: version of the future, and we're saying stuff like that said,
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: he probably won't even think I'm cool at all. I mean,
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: it's going to be a whole different music, a different this,
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 2: a different time. The next morning, we're at breakfast, John
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: hits hands me a shirt cardboard. You know, you go
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 2: from the cleaner. Yeah, why must every generation think their
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: folks are square no matter where their heads are. They
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: know moms ain't there and blah blah blah. That song
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: it's exactly and hey, pop, can I go ride my
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: zoom that goes two hundred miles analysis spend it on balloons?
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: And can I put a droplet of this new stuff
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: on my tongue and imagine frothing dragons while you sit
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: and wreck your lungs. Now, those lyrics are basically either
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: John or I said that Rob was going to be saying,
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: because the thing about different drugs, different planes that you
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: know it'll fly with. So he wrote that thing that night.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: He had an idea because he said, tould you mind.
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: He got all excited and he took off and wrote
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: it the next morning. So now he goes to Woodstock.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: There's no deal and he, uh, the rain comes or whatever.
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: In those days, they're afraid to play with electric instruments,
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 2: and so they needed John. They asked him, would you play?
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: Du said, So he does, and he plays that song. Well,
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: whoever's making that movie thinks that song is great, and
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: he assumes John's in the movie and he records it
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: and stuff, and I find out that that he's he's
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: there their editing and he's still in the movie that
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: he's on the record. Now I'm getting spies telling me
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: they don't have any paper. Finally I call on it.
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: He said, boy, you know I want you to know.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah, John, He says, yeah, I got him.
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: It's cut one side too, and uh, he's bragging about
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: the whole thing. And I said, you know, so what
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: kind of deal we're going to make? He said, what
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: are you talking about? I said, we don't have any paper.
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 2: You just put it in there to put him in
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: the movie, and you're gonna fuck me. I said no,
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: but who's getting the most that's in it? And he
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 2: tells me Sli in the family Stone. I hope that
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 2: was true. But I said, okay, give John that and
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 2: then we know happen issue. I'm not going to try
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: to fuck you. And unless you consider that fucking you,
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: which it isn't a lot of guys might have done different.
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: And that's how and that's how it happened. Not a
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 2: great story, Uh, phenomenal story. Okay, how does John end
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: up at Warner Brothers? They wanted him the minute he
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: went solo. I don't remember who called me. Might have
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 2: been Mo. I mean MO was like I was friends
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: with Mo. Yeah, but how did you meet Mo? I
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: don't know how I met him first, but I liked him.
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 2: I knew he was a real straight shooter. Uh huh,
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 2: an honorable guy. Uh there's something special about him. And
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 2: I loved these organizations, the way the kind of guys
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: he had around him were just the best in my mind.
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 2: So my son, who oh God, can I spare that? Yeah? Absolutely?
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: So he's sixteen fifteen. Maybe it's this summer. I belong
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 2: to a country club. I'm a freak golfer, but pretty good.
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: I got as low as a seven. I won a
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 2: couple of tournaments. But Rob was. He comes out. He
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: can't even hit a driver. He hates them. He takes
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 2: my three iron on a par five. I don't know
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: if you know the game, but he hits the three
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: iron thirty forty yards past my driver and I'm hitting
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: at two thirty at least anyway, So I go, what
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: the hell? Then he takes the five iron. He knocks
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: it on the green on a par five. Then he
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: gets lucky and makes about a twenty five foot put
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 2: for an eagle. I say, listen, Rob, you quit your
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: job at Valvesurf. I said, I'm going to tell you
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 2: you can come here on Mondays, say a lot of
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: the college players and guys. And I started laying out
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: this thing for him, and he says to me, Dad,
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: I love my job at Valvesurf. I'm doing I'm spending
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 2: the summer. I'm spending the summer trying to figure out
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 2: how the Beatles put all that music on four tracks.
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 2: He said, Now, what I had already done was when
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: we had this studio that we built with George Massenberg
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 2: for Earth Wind and Fire. There was leftover equipment. We
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 2: had this thing called the Complex, and yeah, keep going.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 2: So I put basically a little recording studio in Rob's room,
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 2: and he if I would go in his room, he'd
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 2: be laying on the bed with the earphones on, trying
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 2: to figure out stuff that was happening in as a producer.
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 2: You know, as a kid, he was already and he
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: could play good guitar, he could play keyboards. He he
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 2: just was talented. So he was he knew enough to
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: say I don't want to play golf. I'm doing something,
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: you know. So it has a lot of successes. A
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: record Producerble let's go back to that time. John peaks
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 2: with that Woodstock movie. His career commercially starts to go down.
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: Eventually you hook up with Maurice. What else is going
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: on in those years? If anything, John's making a living
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 2: and I'm making a commission on his living, not a
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 2: bad one. I mean, I had a nice little system
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 2: set up. You know, he didn't care if he didn't
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 2: have to play an arena. You know, he did a
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 2: couple of gigs like that where he was on somebody
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 2: else's bill, But he liked his an evening with John Sebastian,
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 2: you know, where he he was kind of like a
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: teaching thing. You know, it was very nice. But he
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: made a good living.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, So Moe calls you about Earthwind and Fire and
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: your only real success at that not that it's not big,
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: but you have loven'spoonful in John Sebastian. He just knows
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: from hanging with you.
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: That you're a good guy. I think. So, yeah, Okay,
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 2: you go to work for Maruris. Ultimately you find the
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: power station that you turn into the studio, the complex.
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: How does that all come to be? Joe and I
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 2: bought that building as an investment what was in it
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 2: when you bought it? I don't know. That was an
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: empty building. I don't remember. I can't tell you. So
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: we also bought an office building on the corner of
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: Charlieville and Little Santa Monica, which I can't even understand
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: why I ever sold it. But anyway, just the one
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: before we go, Ruffalo's along with you. What is Ruffalo
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: doing every day? Well? He managed Ra Parker, He managed
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: Luis Miguel. He really got close to a deal with
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: the famous director. He was fifty to fifty with this guy.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: Joe did some things, but I was pushing him away
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 2: all the time, meaning, do you do your thing? You know?
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 2: Luis Miguel was a big star.
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, wait, but he came in a earlier He came
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 1: in in the sixties. When you sell what's he doing
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: when you're managing John Sebastian.
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: Going on the road with him? Somewhat? I think we
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 2: had that girl, you see, I'm leaving Laura Neirwn Yeah.
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, just stay with Laura Neiro if you remember
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: for a second, gth In starts a record company. He
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: wants her to come, she at the last minute doesn't come.
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: He sells the publishing. She stays with Columbia, she never has.
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: That's an excuse he gave you with somebody.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 2: Well, let me hear the story. No, in my opinion,
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: this isn't a fact. I can't guess you. Look, he
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 2: wanted to go if he had already sold her his
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 2: half of her publishing, which he knew was the most
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 2: valuable thing. There's nobody than David, and he figured out
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 2: she's never she's too flighty to make a serious, big
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 2: time career out of I got bigger things in mind,
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: I sell the half of the publishing. So I got
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 2: a big chunk of money because she was a great writer.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: And then he gives her to me, and I'm insulted
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 2: in but happy. So I go, Joe, you handle it
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: because of my ego, And then so Joe, and plus
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 2: it was perfect. Joe had a client now and he
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: could handle her, and he did a decent job. Okay,
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 2: she never had.
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: The level of success that she had when Geffen was involved.
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: Was that because Geffen was involved or she couldn't do
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: it anymore?
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 2: I really don't know. My guess is combination of everything
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 2: she by by not being with David, like David saw
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 2: the handwriting. She wasn't going to listen to what he
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: wanted to do to make her career. She had a
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 2: value system that was completely different you can imagine, right,
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: So Joe had to pay homage to that system and
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 2: do the best he could with the limitations she demanded.
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 2: And so we still made money and it was okay,
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 2: and she was kind of fun. So that's all. What
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 2: was your deal with Joe? Well, nothing I want to discuss.
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's boyhood pal. I mean we're partners now, so,
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 2: I mean we were until I walked away. I was.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 2: I had a boyhood pal and a young guy who
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 2: I hired for a very good reason to be on
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: the road, and he knew about booking. So I took
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 2: him and his girlfriend about Steve, Steve Farnoli and I
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 2: started the Brighton Age Agency. When I told you, I
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 2: had the office on Brighton and right and the little
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 2: Santa Monica. So downstairs was the Brighton Agency and upstairs
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 2: was Cavallo Ruffalo manager. That was wonderful. Earth went in
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: Fire and Prince. We booked and we took I don't
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 2: know what, we took three percent something, nothing serious. We
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: just wanted to control. We wanted to keep the agents
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 2: away from my artists and have them changed their minds
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 2: about things. I was always very insular at the beginning.
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 2: So I learned of a lawsuit that happened, or criminal
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 2: thing that happened in San Francisco, the band we built
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 2: this city on rock and roll, the Starship Starship manager.
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: It's told by a court he had the clawback ten
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: years of income. Yeah, because he both was the manager
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: and the booking agent. What's his name will come back,
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. The fact is I heard that, and
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: I said, I can trust Maurice, and I really felt
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 2: that I could. He would never do that to me.
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 2: But Prince God if I piss him off to one day,
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: who knows so? And I Plus, I thought I had
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: heard that Mike Ovitz, who I was admired, not that
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: I knew him. We were starting up this incredible film
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 2: agency now is going to start a personal appearance department,
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 2: and that they were negotiating to get Ah, you know, Papa,
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: don't preach whatever Madonna Madonna and I said, Wow, I
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 2: got Earth Wind and Fire and Prince they're both at
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: the top of their game. I want to get into films,
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 2: and Plus I don't want to. I don't want to
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 2: have that lawsuit happen to me, and I couldn't control
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 2: who influenced prints outside of us. He so, I go
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: to Mike Ovitz, asked to meet with him, and he agreed,
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: which is hard to do, by the way. And I
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: told him that's who I had. I understand you're waiting
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: for a certain executive to come free so that you
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: can start your personal appearance department. What would you think
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 2: if I was to offer you Earth, Twinn and Fire
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 2: and Prince? He said, Oh, I'm fantastic. I said. The
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: only thing I want in return is I don't want
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 2: to give you ten percent. I'll give you five, but
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: no contract pancheck, But I'd like you to get me
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: in the movie business. No rush, but I'd like to
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: be able to play in that game. The only thing
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 2: I want to do, as relates to my artists is
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 2: call you directly once, only once in a while. It
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 2: won't be a lot. But I don't want to have
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: to talk to some other guy. I want to talk
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 2: to you. If you do that, you got him both.
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 2: So he just got Madonna. He tells Madonna, I got Prince.
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: You know that three of them and he's fat City. Okay,
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: just so I get the timeline straight. Before that, Steve
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 2: was booking the acts downstairs. Yes, now I have to
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 2: figure out what to do with Steve. But at the
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 2: same time, Prince is saying he's rumblings, and he's saying, cabolo,
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 2: if you really know how good I am, you'd live
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: in Minneapolis. I said, I got two kids in high school,
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: plus Minneapolis. I mean, I live in California. That's where
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 2: my business is. I'll figure something out. Because I realized
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 2: what I was doing, and these things all confluid whatever
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 2: they can flate whatever, whatever that were. So I said, Steve,
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 2: you want to be a partner. You're going to be
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 2: a junior partner. But that's not but nobody's business. Said
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 2: you go to stay with Prince twenty four to seven.
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean as much as he'll let you,
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 2: but you got to go and be our guy in
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: Minneapolis and be with him anywhere he goes. And he
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 2: loved it. He loved the idea. Steve, let's go back once.
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 2: How did you become aware of Steve? He called me
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 2: up to curse me out. He was the road manager
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 2: for Slying the family Stone if you can imagine. And
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 2: he was just a kid who really loved the business.
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 2: Because we do know how good a band, the Little Feet.
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 2: I never mentioned them. Shit they were I had them
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 2: early too. That was back in the day when you
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 2: were wondering what I was doing. John. Anyway, Little Feet
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: Lowell and I were close friends. I loved him and
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: I loved him music. I loved everything about it. Will
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: sloppy in terms of drug taking and stuff. But anyway,
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: so I get a phone call from a guy who
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 2: was on the road with Sly. It's my name is
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 2: Steve Ar. I'm on the road. Do you realize what
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 2: you have the band Little Feet? I said, yeah, so
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 2: well you should be doing much better. They're the greatest band.
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 2: And he goes on. He just goes on like he
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: like he was drunk or something. I mean, I just
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, the next time you're in town,
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: I'd like to meet you. So he comes in. I
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 2: see he's a handsome guy. Young. I said, you want
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 2: to work with Little Feet? Said yeah, I said, okay,
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 2: how much we then you know, when negotiate your the thing.
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: And that was it. I got them off the road,
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 2: and now I had to figure out what to do
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 2: with them, and eventually his experience of being on the
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 2: road at every concert venue in the United States. I mean,
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 2: I said, you'll be the the agent. Okay, let's tie
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 2: a knot. You and Ruffalo own this building in West
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 2: la as an investment property, as well as the one
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: on Try.
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: But focusing on the one that becomes the complex. How
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: does that, how does that become the complex?
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 2: Well, Maurice wants his own studio. George Massenberg is considered
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 2: one of the best there is, So we decide we'll
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 2: start a label. That'll be the headquarters of the label,
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: and it'll be where we make our records. That'll be
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 2: where Cabolo Ruffalo was all those things. Now we have
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 2: to sell the building too, Columbia because the deal that
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 2: we were going to make to start this enterprise, I
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 2: knew enough. I had already become sophisticated enough to make
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: sure I wasn't on the hook for anything, because God knows,
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 2: And it turned out that was wise. Poor Walter and
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 2: I almost Walter looked like he wanted to go for blows.
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: We were in a hotel in Beverly Hills. He said,
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 2: what do you mean, I said, Walter I'm not. If
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: you look at the paper, you're responsible for that thing.
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 2: What happened. What happened is Maurice started Aside from every
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 2: other thing, Maurice started recording elsewhere because he had some
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: lack of success, some things that weren't going right, and
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 2: he blamed the studio instead of him. You know how
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 2: it is that people reach a point. Okay, this is
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: you may not know this, but on the Tarzani and
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 2: a Kid, the second album Warner Brothers album for John Sebastian,
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 2: there's a song called Face of Appalachia that ends up
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 2: on the Valerie Carter record, which is on ARC Records.
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 2: Can you tell me anything about that? Yeah? I managed Valerie.
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: She was one of those artists that lived in my
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: house for a while with her boyfriend. I don't know.
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 2: I could never break her, and she started to get
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 2: to work as a background singer for other artists, famous artists.
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 2: She toured. We tried to. I got her a song.
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 2: Prince wrote, Oh if I could. I think it was
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 2: doomy baby or something. It was sexual song, really good.
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 2: But I said, Prince will produce this, you'll have to
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 2: hit promise. She wouldn't do it, just embarrassed her. She
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 2: just was a little girl from the south and it
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 2: was just two prints, you know, too sexual. Let's go
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 2: back to little feet. How do you end up getting
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 2: little feet? I don't know. I almost want to say
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 2: Mo Mo thought they were great, and he told me
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 2: about them, believe it or not, and he thought they
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 2: needed direction, and I think he might have caused it.
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know for sure. I can't remember. But once
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 2: I saw them, I went and saw them somewhere. Oh god,
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 2: I said, this guy, and Lowell killed me, I mean
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 2: made me laugh. I couldn't stop. We became very close friends.
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 2: Christ He gave me a set of golf clubs that
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 2: his father owned, ancient golf clubs. We were good buddies,
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 2: but he just got eaten by the drugs. I mean,
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 2: there was no need for them to not become big.
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 2: I remember standing on a chair in Santa Monica at
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 2: Santa Monica Civic or something like that, and they're playing
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 2: that four song medley at the end of their show
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 2: that just used to make me want to scream like
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 2: a teenager. I'm standing on the chair. I'm going to
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 2: kill myself, honest thing. And they were so good, but
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 2: then he just got to heroin. I mean, what are
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 2: you going to do if your acts are on drugs
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 2: RA a serious problem on alcohol? Is there anything you
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 2: can do? Well? The really the thing you should be
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 2: doing is and it probably wouldn't do any good, but
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 2: saying I have to quit. If you're going to continue this,
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm out. I don't know what else you could do.
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 2: You can't you can't take them to you know. I
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 2: had to go to Betty Ford, so I did not
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 2: know no, no, I mean it's not exactly something you publicize,
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 2: but I spent thirty days there. My family came for
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 2: a week, We did the whole number. And then for
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 2: twelve years I went to three meetings a week because
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 2: I became a coke addict and not much of an alcoholic,
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 2: so I didn't drink or do drugs. But then at
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 2: the end of twelve years, I don't remember what the
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 2: occasion was, I said, I know I can drink. I
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 2: can't drink more than one or two. I mean, if
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 2: I had two martinis, you have to alert the media.
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 2: One drink a week, two drinks a week was me,
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 2: but not with the boat with the coke. I would
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 2: do you know, just keep myself loaded. I don't know
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 2: how I got into that. I had a lot of money.
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 2: How did you end up pulling the trigger to go
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 2: to Betty Ford? I didn't, Well, I know you didn't.
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 2: That's why I'm asked. Nobody wants to go. My wife
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 2: goes to the shrink that we both went to. We
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 2: were a very contemporary couple. Trust me, she's an incredible lady.
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 2: This is the reason that when one year she went
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 2: from brand new to in the executive director of Office
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: of the CIA not because she is really special. So
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 2: and without her, I don't think I could have pulled
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 2: any of this off. But so this is interesting that
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 2: you asked this. You're amazing. We both I go to
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 2: a shrink. She says that shrink isn't helping you. You
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 2: still she knows I'm getting loaded all the time, and
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 2: so she said I want to come because she saw
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 2: this guy too. But she shows up and after a
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 2: while of talking and him trying to soften things up,
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 2: and she stands up and walks up to his desk
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 2: and says, because we're sitting in chairs and he's behind
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 2: this desk. She says, says, either you tell me tomorrow
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 2: the name of an expert psychiatrist drug help her, you
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 2: know person, or I'll find one myself. I'm not waiting.
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 2: You got to do it now. Don't don't think you're
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 2: going to talk each other into not you know, she
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 2: accused him of of doing something shrinks enabling. So so
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 2: he gets me the guy that eventually became the head
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 2: of betty Ford. But it was way better than that.
• 2:24:17
  Speaker 2: He was an irishman, his wife was a famous Irish actress.
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 2: They became great friends. But the fact is he takes
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 2: me and he cons me. He said, you know that
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 2: you were talking to me about how you feel like
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 2: your life is on a fast moving stream and you're
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 2: a leef on the stream and you're going down and
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 2: you're just not in control of where it goes. But
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 2: you're just he said, you know a good thing to
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 2: do to investigate that. Why don't you go to a
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 2: place as an active faith to your family. You don't
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 2: really need to go, just go, you know. So Okay,
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 2: he said, and I've said it up. You can leave
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 2: for betty Ford tomorrow morning. So God blesses rest his soul.
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 2: So I go and the guy the woman says, is
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 2: that your car out there. I got this big, beautiful
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 2: Mercedes said. Yeah. She said, well you're going to be
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 2: here thirty days. You got to go get it in
• 2:25:23
  Speaker 2: the garage or get a cover for it. It'll melt,
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 2: you know, it'll ruin your paint. H I said, oh, well,
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 2: I was going to have it so I could occasionally,
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 2: like in the afternoon, go maybe hit some balls. She said, no,
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 2: you're not gonna Well, now I realized, I said, guys
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 2: going through my luggage while I'm standing here talking, you know,
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 2: and I'm not I'm not really been content to this.
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 2: He says, go to take your car right now, go
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 2: get to this place and buy a cover for it,
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 2: and then come back. I come back and they put
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 2: me in a room. Doctor starts examining me. They start
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 2: they tell me that luckily there was no drugs in
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 2: my bag. And they tell me I'm assigned to this house.
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 2: And there's like four or five people in each little
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 2: house and there's a some consertive therapist and so they're
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 2: having a meeting. You should join them. So I go
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 2: in sit and they start talking and they say, well,
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 2: you have to have a job. The therapist says, I said, okay,
• 2:26:28
  Speaker 2: Well I could vacuum, you know, because we all keep
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 2: taking care of this place. And they said, no, you're
• 2:26:33
  Speaker 2: not capable of that. We're going to get you feed
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 2: the ducks. So here's the story with the ducks. You
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 2: must pick up the leftover bread before six thirty because
• 2:26:48
  Speaker 2: at that point the dining room is closed and you
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 2: won't be able to get the leftover bread. So you
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 2: have to have picked up the leftover bread before six thirty.
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 2: But you can't pick it up at like four o'clock.
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 2: It's got to be used for dinner, so it's right
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 2: at that time. Now I know what all this is about.
• 2:27:05
  Speaker 2: But anyway, so of course the first day I don't
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 2: get there in time to buy them up the bread.
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 2: So they've proven to me that the tossing bread to
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 2: the ducks at six thirty in the morning is to
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 2: on e javig. You have to make your bed and
• 2:27:20
  Speaker 2: you have to do this, and then you have these meetings.
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 2: And my first meeting before I even did the ducks.
• 2:27:31
  Speaker 2: That first day, all of a sudden, maybe five people,
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 2: two of whom are famous, two women who are actresses,
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 2: and they're all talking about me. They're all like asking
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 2: me questions and why and my response would require them,
• 2:27:48
  Speaker 2: and they're talking and talking. All of a sudden I
• 2:27:51
  Speaker 2: burst into tears, and they try to say, can you
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 2: figure out why you're crying? I said, well, well, I
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: can't believe I'm doing this on the air. I said,
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 2: I'm just so overwhelmed by the fact that you seem
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 2: to care about what I been going through. And that
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 2: was the beginning, and it turned it around. You know, I, okay,
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 2: the nature I don't know. Can we can't? Can we
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 2: should edit that out? I'm not sure if.
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 1: I'd rather I'll do what you want, but I'd rather
• 2:28:32
  Speaker 1: leave it. I've had numerous people talk about their experiences.
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 1: The difference in your particular case is one and done.
• 2:28:38
  Speaker 1: Most people have to go numerous time. I bought it,
• 2:28:41
  Speaker 1: My family came, we we just we really went into it.
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 1: And then the other thing is most of those places
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 1: you have the power to leave if you want to.
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 1: Did it ever occur to you to leave?
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 2: I knew once that day, I knew, holy shit, I
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 2: have to be here like i've I've been. I started
• 2:29:02
  Speaker 2: to realize how out of control I really was, and
• 2:29:06
  Speaker 2: how lucky I was that I hadn't done any serious
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 2: damage to my life for anybody else's meaning my wife
• 2:29:12
  Speaker 2: or you know.
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 1: Those two people who ask you the questions, what kind
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 1: of questions.
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 2: Were they asking? You mean the people in my circle? Yeah, oh,
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know talking about my did I what feelings
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 2: I had? Like, I don't remember.
• 2:29:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not going to You know, you're in this
• 2:29:36
  Speaker 1: environment for thirty days, Yeah.
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 2: The last five of seven, of which I think my
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 2: wife and two kids came. Okay.
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 1: It's a huge transition to then go back to regular life,
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people fall off the wagon. In
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 1: your particular case, how hard was that transition?
• 2:29:56
  Speaker 2: Uh? I felt relieved. I felt like I was let
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 2: out of jail. I wasn't made to be a drug addict.
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you I was no problem, partially because of
• 2:30:06
  Speaker 2: my family and how close and how real it everything
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 2: is with us. The second thing is in that place
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 2: I realized that I was. That's what started me in
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 2: breaking up the partnership. Remember from I don't know what
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 2: you're eighty eight something. In eighty seven or something, I
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 2: was on my own. I was in partners with Chuck
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 2: Robin and Dawn Steele for some movies, but I started
• 2:30:32
  Speaker 2: a brand. I had no clients. I started brand new.
• 2:30:36
  Speaker 2: My father had to smack me one time. I said
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 2: to him, I don't know, d this is after an
• 2:30:42
  Speaker 2: affortunate I'm old and I got to start all over.
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 2: But I can't. I got it, had to get rid
• 2:30:49
  Speaker 2: of at a company and that whole thing. And he's
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 2: in the face, he said, you're fifty one years old
• 2:30:57
  Speaker 2: or whatever. He said, you're at the top of your game.
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 2: What the hell are you talking about? Gout put it
• 2:31:01
  Speaker 2: together again? Whatever business you want to put together, you
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 2: won't fail. And so I started third Rail. I thought
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 2: it was the best name in rock and roll. Nobody
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 2: on the fucking planet knew what third Rail was though
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 2: the power source you know what I mean? No, of
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 2: course you do, but I mean person in California, right.
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 2: So it was like I thought it was so clever
• 2:31:28
  Speaker 2: that then people would go third Rail anyway? Is that religious? No?
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 2: So I I ended up getting four films executive producer
• 2:31:41
  Speaker 2: credit and realized I didn't really want to be in
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 2: business with Chuck just because Chuck is He's a he's
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 2: like a machine. He's the most powerful human being. And
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 2: you know he did he produced Oppenheimer, He produced every
• 2:31:57
  Speaker 2: two or three of the best Batman movies ever made.
• 2:32:01
  Speaker 2: But his wife, Don Steele. I loved her. She was great.
• 2:32:05
  Speaker 2: So I tried to help on some movies and stuff.
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 2: But I started Third Rail and I got Seal Green Day,
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 2: weez At, Googa Dolls, Alanis Marset and all kinds of
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 2: and others. I'm leaving some out, and it was fantastic.
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 2: They were all giant success, the Goo Goo Dolls. I
• 2:32:26
  Speaker 2: supported them for two years and then brought them to
• 2:32:30
  Speaker 2: my son at Warner Brothers. He's the one who told
• 2:32:32
  Speaker 2: me about them. They were at another label. He said,
• 2:32:35
  Speaker 2: get them. The guy's a great writer. And sure enough,
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 2: five and a half billion plays.
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 1: On Oh yeah, Iris is unbelievable. But let's stay with
• 2:32:44
  Speaker 1: the fact. What goes through your mind when you get
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 1: out of Betty Ford that tells you you have to
• 2:32:48
  Speaker 1: break up the partnership.
• 2:32:51
  Speaker 2: That I knew the truth of the matter was that
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 2: I was unhappy, that I wanted to do other things
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 2: and I didn't want to have to, yeah, you know,
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 2: worry about the other people's feelings or there. I don't know.
• 2:33:09
  Speaker 2: I can't even tell you now, but you know you're
• 2:33:11
  Speaker 2: asking me to remember how I felt. It's pretty hard
• 2:33:15
  Speaker 2: to know. Okay, when you told your partners you were out,
• 2:33:17
  Speaker 2: what did they say? Not much. I thought they'd stick together,
• 2:33:22
  Speaker 2: but they didn't like each other. It turns out Joe went,
• 2:33:26
  Speaker 2: and Joe was going to be a big success. In
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 2: my opinion, Steve went and got nothing compares to you.
• 2:33:38
  Speaker 2: So Steve signed Shanate. He calls me, and I'm putting
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 2: I got a secretary on a little office because I'm
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 2: helping Don and Chuck. But I'm not serious about that.
• 2:33:52
  Speaker 2: I'm enjoying it. But I said, I'm starting to management company,
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 2: and I suppose I time, so.
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 1: Talk about Steve calls you about Shnado guess.
• 2:34:03
  Speaker 2: He says, do you want to manage Shannade for the
• 2:34:08
  Speaker 2: US trying? I'd like to break her here if I could,
• 2:34:13
  Speaker 2: and I couldn't be bad. So I thought, I'm not
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 2: going to do that unless I can do something really great,
• 2:34:20
  Speaker 2: you know, like let me think about it, Steve. And
• 2:34:23
  Speaker 2: then I call a friend of mine. I hear Bob
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 2: Dylan is going to tour in America. We're a pretty
• 2:34:30
  Speaker 2: good sized American tour. I think, wow, shaneaid opens for Bob.
• 2:34:37
  Speaker 2: That could make her in this city. So I call
• 2:34:41
  Speaker 2: a dear friend of mine. It's close to Bob, and
• 2:34:46
  Speaker 2: she thinks that's a good idea. She'll tell Bob. So
• 2:34:51
  Speaker 2: I have a meeting with Shanaide and Steve, and I'm
• 2:34:54
  Speaker 2: so like proudly thinking, well I'm not just so I said, Okay,
• 2:35:02
  Speaker 2: I think the best way to break in America is
• 2:35:05
  Speaker 2: to do a long, complete tour for decent money with
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 2: Bob Dylan. I can deliver that to you. What do
• 2:35:15
  Speaker 2: you think, Well, I'll do it if I can fuck him,
• 2:35:28
  Speaker 2: just to dot and I here. Does she end up
• 2:35:30
  Speaker 2: doing the tour? No, she doesn't end up doing the tour.
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 2: I end up leaving. But I'm so pissed off, Like
• 2:35:40
  Speaker 2: I took that to mean she's afraid to do it.
• 2:35:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe I had no right to analyze it
• 2:35:46
  Speaker 2: that way, but that's how I analyzed it. She's afraid,
• 2:35:49
  Speaker 2: she's full of crap. This is this is the great
• 2:35:52
  Speaker 2: You know as well as I do. She went on
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 2: tour with him when it was over, and she did
• 2:35:56
  Speaker 2: her best work. She killed us. Oh all right, So
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 2: I mean they never saw anybody like her, and singing
• 2:36:03
  Speaker 2: that song the way she sang it, I mean, give
• 2:36:06
  Speaker 2: me a break, not that that's the only song. I mean,
• 2:36:08
  Speaker 2: she's had other great songs. So anyway, I just forgot that.
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 1: And okay, let's go back Princes in Minneapolis. He's got
• 2:36:19
  Speaker 1: a manager. How do you end up becoming the manager?
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 1: It's really interesting. He goes to see Earthwin and Fire.
• 2:36:28
  Speaker 1: They're doing that show with the fourteen track, the trailers
• 2:36:31
  Speaker 1: and the buses and the dancers and the all this stuff.
• 2:36:35
  Speaker 1: The magician guy is the producer of the show, of
• 2:36:42
  Speaker 1: the creative part. So he sees them and he tells me,
• 2:36:49
  Speaker 1: which you know, I should have never told anybody because
• 2:36:52
  Speaker 1: it's it was private. He sits there in my we
• 2:36:57
  Speaker 1: had a private room, like a little living room in
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 1: our offices, and he says, he plays puts in a cassette.
• 2:37:04
  Speaker 1: He locks the door, puts in a cassette. So now he's.
• 2:37:07
  Speaker 2: Basically saying, Joe and Steve, don't come in. Plays me
• 2:37:12
  Speaker 2: this thing. And I hear a horn line that kills
• 2:37:18
  Speaker 2: me that I think is great. And because of my
• 2:37:20
  Speaker 2: experience with earth Win and Fire, I became an interest
• 2:37:24
  Speaker 2: in jazz. Originally, this subtlety of this thing was obvious
• 2:37:28
  Speaker 2: to me, and I oh, and heat almost jumped through
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 2: the roof with happiness because the reason he played it
• 2:37:34
  Speaker 2: was hoping that I would think that the horn he put,
• 2:37:37
  Speaker 2: the things he put in there were great. So it
• 2:37:39
  Speaker 2: was the only time he seemed vulnerable. It was that
• 2:37:41
  Speaker 2: day he told me that when he first saw earth
• 2:37:44
  Speaker 2: win and fire and he told me the gig, he said,
• 2:37:49
  Speaker 2: I almost quit because I didn't I didn't know if
• 2:37:53
  Speaker 2: I could ever equal that. I want to be the best.
• 2:37:56
  Speaker 2: And of course, knowing Prince, that lasted three minutes and
• 2:37:59
  Speaker 2: then he was on his way to being the best
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 2: in his mind. So that's that. I don't know what
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 2: the question, Okay, where in his career do you get
• 2:38:08
  Speaker 2: involved before the first album comes out or after the
• 2:38:12
  Speaker 2: first album? No? No, the first album was out and
• 2:38:15
  Speaker 2: his mind had failed. It probably sold four hundred thousand
• 2:38:18
  Speaker 2: record right, but there was a huge hype. The first
• 2:38:20
  Speaker 2: one for you was the first one. The second one
• 2:38:23
  Speaker 2: had I Want to Be Your Lover. It was a
• 2:38:25
  Speaker 2: big R and B hit. Yeah, so you were involved there. Yeah,
• 2:38:28
  Speaker 2: the second album was our first album.
• 2:38:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, then Dirty Mind comes out. I still think that's
• 2:38:36
  Speaker 1: the best prints album. You know, it's got sexual counter
• 2:38:39
  Speaker 1: no idea. How much trouble I had.
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you did. That's why I bring it up.
• 2:38:44
  Speaker 2: But I was with you. I'm with you. I thought
• 2:38:46
  Speaker 2: it was great. But you know, luckily, you know the
• 2:38:50
  Speaker 2: thing about Mo Mo was I guess as you well know.
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's nobody quite like him. And you know,
• 2:39:00
  Speaker 2: I was a megalomaniac. I mean, I mean, he's brilliant.
• 2:39:03
  Speaker 2: But the fact is, like the guy who brought the
• 2:39:09
  Speaker 2: Who's the girl singer who died already that with the
• 2:39:12
  Speaker 2: incredible voice, you know, Matt Houston, Whitney Houston, the guy
• 2:39:18
  Speaker 2: the picture I shouldn't be saying. Everybody knows this story.
• 2:39:22
  Speaker 2: Tell me your version. Well, you know, he was the
• 2:39:25
  Speaker 2: guy that wasn't in the picture, the signing picture which
• 2:39:27
  Speaker 2: had Clive on her right and this guy on her left.
• 2:39:33
  Speaker 2: That's all. It's just that little thing would make me insane,
• 2:39:38
  Speaker 2: that kind of and you know, but Clive was a
• 2:39:42
  Speaker 2: great executive. I'm not putting it down.
• 2:39:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm you know, Clive did some great things.
• 2:39:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not in his camp, shall we put it. I
• 2:39:50
  Speaker 2: thought he was tireless self promoter. Yeah, and the records
• 2:39:54
  Speaker 2: he ultimately made on Arista. You're involved with these career artists.
• 2:39:58
  Speaker 2: Most of the artists he broke, not career artists in
• 2:40:01
  Speaker 2: the eighties and nineties, et cetera.
• 2:40:03
  Speaker 1: But okay, you're talking about Mo and Dirty Mind. Yeah,
• 2:40:09
  Speaker 1: I mean there were people who thought we shouldn't be
• 2:40:10
  Speaker 1: putting this out. It was they really wanted us to.
• 2:40:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know who in the crowd. But I said, Tom,
• 2:40:16
  Speaker 1: that's bad.
• 2:40:17
  Speaker 2: It be the biggest mistake you'd ever make. And he says,
• 2:40:22
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing it, Like Keep was saying that there's
• 2:40:25
  Speaker 2: no way I was going to do it. So but
• 2:40:27
  Speaker 2: some of his people had let the word out that
• 2:40:29
  Speaker 2: they thought it should be scrapped.
• 2:40:32
  Speaker 1: I remember Reagan was shot and they delayed the Oscars
• 2:40:36
  Speaker 1: one day and the night they actually had the Oscars,
• 2:40:42
  Speaker 1: Prince played at Flippers Roller Disco on that Dirty Mind.
• 2:40:46
  Speaker 1: I always say, one of the three best shows I
• 2:40:48
  Speaker 1: ever saw. I mean, poorly attended. For whatever reason. He
• 2:40:51
  Speaker 1: did the whole act where he's bouncing on the bed
• 2:40:54
  Speaker 1: and everything. It was like, you saw that I already
• 2:40:57
  Speaker 1: had the album.
• 2:40:58
  Speaker 2: That's why I was.
• 2:40:58
  Speaker 1: I WHOA, You start telling everybody, Okay, the next album
• 2:41:03
  Speaker 1: is Controversy where he opens for the Rolling Stones. How
• 2:41:07
  Speaker 1: does that come together? Well that was.
• 2:41:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I can take the full blame,
• 2:41:15
  Speaker 2: but I thought it was fine. But I said to him,
• 2:41:26
  Speaker 2: don't play oh, jerk me off, jerk you off? Whatever
• 2:41:32
  Speaker 2: that is, right, right, So don't play that. But if
• 2:41:37
  Speaker 2: you're just a humble hang in a minute, they're going
• 2:41:39
  Speaker 2: to see how good you are. So just put up
• 2:41:42
  Speaker 2: with some bullshit at the beginning. But we thought it
• 2:41:46
  Speaker 2: was a good idea. God knows why we thought it
• 2:41:48
  Speaker 2: was a good idea. Well, of course it's me saying,
• 2:41:51
  Speaker 2: don't play jerk you off. As he opened with it,
• 2:41:56
  Speaker 2: they went fucking nutsy. They thought he would. They thought
• 2:41:59
  Speaker 2: they misinterpreted the thing. So it's like he's insulting them,
• 2:42:04
  Speaker 2: you know, like he's jerking them off. He said, I
• 2:42:07
  Speaker 2: don't know what they thought. So the only thing I
• 2:42:10
  Speaker 2: can say that came out of that. Who's the great
• 2:42:13
  Speaker 2: singer from the Rolling Stones? His name is it? I
• 2:42:16
  Speaker 2: can see him. Mick goes up to him and says, listen,
• 2:42:19
  Speaker 2: we got booed when we started. You know, don't let
• 2:42:22
  Speaker 2: this bother you. You know he was trying. He really
• 2:42:24
  Speaker 2: took him aside and took some time, and Prince really
• 2:42:27
  Speaker 2: appreciated it. But that's it. I don't know what else
• 2:42:31
  Speaker 2: serious to say about it. It was a big mistake.
• 2:42:33
  Speaker 2: He didn't blame us, he knew he did it. Okay.
• 2:42:37
  Speaker 1: The next album is Purple Rain. A lot of the
• 2:42:41
  Speaker 1: album was recorded live. Was the concept of making a
• 2:42:44
  Speaker 1: movie before or after the album. We're simultaneously No, no, no,
• 2:42:48
  Speaker 1: we prince. Here's how it went.
• 2:42:51
  Speaker 2: Okay. I sent Steve. Remember now, Steve is twenty four
• 2:42:56
  Speaker 2: to seven with the kid, four and a half years in,
• 2:43:00
  Speaker 2: and I say, we've done a fucking great job. Here
• 2:43:04
  Speaker 2: is a contract. There's no changes. Tell him I don't
• 2:43:07
  Speaker 2: want any changes, any bullshit from a lawyer. I want
• 2:43:09
  Speaker 2: another five years. If he's going to be fair, that's
• 2:43:11
  Speaker 2: what he should do. So he goes on the road
• 2:43:14
  Speaker 2: with him too. So he calls me, Steve, Bob, you're
• 2:43:19
  Speaker 2: not going to believe this. Here's what he said, Telcavallo.
• 2:43:24
  Speaker 2: I'll sign the paper for another five years, but he
• 2:43:26
  Speaker 2: has to get me a motion picture. It can't be
• 2:43:31
  Speaker 2: from one of his drug dealers, or or financed by
• 2:43:35
  Speaker 2: some jeweler, which I guess in black music the jewelers
• 2:43:40
  Speaker 2: have a lot of money. I don't know. It has
• 2:43:43
  Speaker 2: to be in a major studio, and I my name
• 2:43:47
  Speaker 2: has to be his name has to be above the title.
• 2:43:52
  Speaker 2: I'll uh such and such in his first motion picture,
• 2:43:59
  Speaker 2: Brent in his first Warner Brothers Presents Princeton. You know
• 2:44:03
  Speaker 2: that's what he liked that, right, he knew what he
• 2:44:05
  Speaker 2: was asking for. Well, Steve and Joe were pissed and
• 2:44:11
  Speaker 2: I was thrilled. I said, it sounds impossible, but I
• 2:44:16
  Speaker 2: have had trouble one of the things, through all this drugs.
• 2:44:20
  Speaker 2: And then Betty Ford. No, it's not losing my drive
• 2:44:28
  Speaker 2: and losing my interest, you know, so just challenge like, Wow,
• 2:44:32
  Speaker 2: I'd love to produce a movie. I never produced a movie,
• 2:44:35
  Speaker 2: and I think I could, and you know whatever I'm thinking.
• 2:44:38
  Speaker 2: So I go. I go to skip Writtenham lawyer, big
• 2:44:46
  Speaker 2: big film lawyer, one of the top ones, him and
• 2:44:49
  Speaker 2: his partner, and he was my lawyer at the time,
• 2:44:52
  Speaker 2: and I said, what do I do? He tells me.
• 2:44:55
  Speaker 2: He says, well, you're going to need it. I said,
• 2:44:58
  Speaker 2: I got to get a director because I don't think
• 2:45:00
  Speaker 2: a studio is going to He's not big enough name.
• 2:45:04
  Speaker 2: But if I have a director interested, he said, well,
• 2:45:06
  Speaker 2: you're going to need a script to get a director. Interested.
• 2:45:10
  Speaker 2: I said, okay, I'll pay for a script. He said, Mike,
• 2:45:15
  Speaker 2: have a client. I can't think of his name right now.
• 2:45:18
  Speaker 2: I know his name. He wrote Brian's song. If he
• 2:45:23
  Speaker 2: remember then of course everybody reminded it. Yeah, remembers it.
• 2:45:29
  Speaker 2: It was very good and he wrote that. And he's
• 2:45:32
  Speaker 2: my client and I could get him to He's easy
• 2:45:35
  Speaker 2: to get and it's not not too expensive. So I said, okay,
• 2:45:39
  Speaker 2: I'll pay for him to write a screenplay. So he goes,
• 2:45:42
  Speaker 2: spends one trip to one day in Minneapolis, comes back
• 2:45:48
  Speaker 2: and writes the script, which is like a TV movie.
• 2:45:51
  Speaker 2: It's cute. Starts out with a station wagon with equipment,
• 2:45:57
  Speaker 2: you know, with the movie people moving into town. Apollonia
• 2:46:03
  Speaker 2: is in the car with her parents princes on a motorcycle.
• 2:46:07
  Speaker 2: They get lost. They're trying to find their new house
• 2:46:09
  Speaker 2: and he tells them where to go. And it's just so,
• 2:46:15
  Speaker 2: but I have to start. So I get turned down
• 2:46:18
  Speaker 2: by a couple of black directors. I get turned down
• 2:46:22
  Speaker 2: by pretty much anybody. And then when I go to
• 2:46:24
  Speaker 2: another screening, I'm talking about a director named James Foley
• 2:46:28
  Speaker 2: as a possibility, and I see his movie and it's
• 2:46:31
  Speaker 2: good and there's a kid in there, young man in
• 2:46:35
  Speaker 2: there that I said. He said, what did you think?
• 2:46:38
  Speaker 2: I said, oh, I kind of liked the editing. I
• 2:46:40
  Speaker 2: thought it was very cool. He said, oh, I did that,
• 2:46:44
  Speaker 2: And that was the end of it. I heard James
• 2:46:46
  Speaker 2: Foley past the next day, and then I got something
• 2:46:51
  Speaker 2: messenger to me, and it was the student film of
• 2:46:55
  Speaker 2: the young man that was in the screening room, Albert Magnoli.
• 2:46:59
  Speaker 2: I learned later learned that that student film won the
• 2:47:02
  Speaker 2: Student Academy Award for directing. I'm running out of possibilities,
• 2:47:07
  Speaker 2: so it occurs to me. I enjoyed that student film.
• 2:47:12
  Speaker 2: He's a talented young guy, I think, so I ask him,
• 2:47:17
  Speaker 2: are you interested? And he says, that script is terrible.
• 2:47:23
  Speaker 2: I know it's the wrong script. I don't know if
• 2:47:25
  Speaker 2: it's terrible, but it's certainly not the right script for
• 2:47:27
  Speaker 2: prince first career movie. But you're a writer, why don't
• 2:47:34
  Speaker 2: you write it and direct it? So he eventually goes there,
• 2:47:41
  Speaker 2: and in the meantime, now we have Magnoli's script, and
• 2:47:46
  Speaker 2: I'm excited about it, and I know we're going to
• 2:47:48
  Speaker 2: make a movie. Warner Brothers tries to make a negative
• 2:47:52
  Speaker 2: pickup deal with Gooba Peters. They pass on the script
• 2:47:55
  Speaker 2: because it's too dark. Then I go to David Gef.
• 2:48:00
  Speaker 2: We shake hands on a deal in my opinion, in
• 2:48:03
  Speaker 2: my memory, for eight million dollars to make it. I
• 2:48:07
  Speaker 2: bring Prince and everybody to his office, to David's office
• 2:48:11
  Speaker 2: to sort of celebrate the thing and seal the deal.
• 2:48:15
  Speaker 2: And at that point he says, no, seven million, and
• 2:48:20
  Speaker 2: you have to do another American tour before we do this.
• 2:48:24
  Speaker 2: And I had told him that we have to start immediately.
• 2:48:27
  Speaker 2: That's part of Prince's deal. So I looked down the Prince,
• 2:48:31
  Speaker 2: I said, well, what do you think? He said, let's go,
• 2:48:34
  Speaker 2: I said, and so we just walked out. So that
• 2:48:36
  Speaker 2: was David. The next one Skip is making setting these up.
• 2:48:41
  Speaker 2: The next one is Richard Pryor. I don't get to
• 2:48:47
  Speaker 2: meet Richard. He was probably too fucked up. Then it
• 2:48:50
  Speaker 2: would have been great if we got to meet him.
• 2:48:51
  Speaker 2: He would have loved this. But Jim Brown again I
• 2:48:57
  Speaker 2: remember from them, Yeah, yeah, I remember, Earth went in.
• 2:49:01
  Speaker 2: So there is he's running uh whatever, the name of
• 2:49:08
  Speaker 2: his company is Richard's Film Company. So he likes the
• 2:49:13
  Speaker 2: script and he wants to do it. So the first
• 2:49:19
  Speaker 2: thing I'm just doing this as an aside for you.
• 2:49:22
  Speaker 2: He looks. He says, cat Magnoli. That's Italian, isn't it.
• 2:49:26
  Speaker 2: I said yeah. He said Cavalo that's Italian. I said yeah.
• 2:49:30
  Speaker 2: He said, see, we got to learn to do that,
• 2:49:33
  Speaker 2: meaning black folks. I wanted to say you already know that,
• 2:49:37
  Speaker 2: but anyway, I didn't say anything. I said, so I laughed,
• 2:49:45
  Speaker 2: you don't laugh at Jim Brown. I left. I said, Jim,
• 2:49:48
  Speaker 2: you'd think the reason I hired this guy is because
• 2:49:50
  Speaker 2: he's got Italian American. He's the first guy that said, yes,
• 2:49:54
  Speaker 2: Prince wants this fucking movie and I had to do it.
• 2:49:59
  Speaker 2: Now are you going to help me do it? Or what?
• 2:50:00
  Speaker 2: You know? Like that? And he doesn't like that. He
• 2:50:03
  Speaker 2: didn't like me at all at that point. You just
• 2:50:05
  Speaker 2: have to be very respectful. The next time I'm in,
• 2:50:08
  Speaker 2: he goes, what the hell you hired a cinematographer. So
• 2:50:13
  Speaker 2: I go again, Jim is up here, so like, if
• 2:50:15
  Speaker 2: I'm standing up and I want to put my hand
• 2:50:17
  Speaker 2: on his shoulder, it's about what they're So I said, oh, Jim,
• 2:50:22
  Speaker 2: you know a first time director. I told my closest
• 2:50:26
  Speaker 2: friend is five time Academy award loser. I call him
• 2:50:29
  Speaker 2: a five time loser. But he's one of the great
• 2:50:31
  Speaker 2: cinematographers of all time. And his name is Owen Roysman.
• 2:50:35
  Speaker 2: And he told me the what you need to do
• 2:50:38
  Speaker 2: is get yourself a cinematographer that's your boy, that you're
• 2:50:42
  Speaker 2: really great and experienced, and he'll tell you weeks in
• 2:50:46
  Speaker 2: advance if you're going to go in the toilet, so
• 2:50:47
  Speaker 2: you can have time to do something about it. With
• 2:50:50
  Speaker 2: the first time director, you understand all that. So I said,
• 2:50:54
  Speaker 2: I'm explaining this to Jim, and and then in the
• 2:51:00
  Speaker 2: end he's getting pissed off us, I said, Jim, in
• 2:51:03
  Speaker 2: the end, we all just worked for Prince. Well, my lawyer, Skip,
• 2:51:07
  Speaker 2: who represented both sides, just took me out the door.
• 2:51:11
  Speaker 2: He said, there's no deal here. He won't come, he
• 2:51:14
  Speaker 2: won't go near it. You've insulted him. So now I
• 2:51:18
  Speaker 2: have no deal. So next I go to MO Austin
• 2:51:23
  Speaker 2: and this I think five million in the pipeline, maybe four,
• 2:51:26
  Speaker 2: I can't remember which. So I got eight hundred thousand.
• 2:51:31
  Speaker 2: If it's four, I got eight hundred thousand. Prints that
• 2:51:33
  Speaker 2: got three too. I said, well, you want to put
• 2:51:34
  Speaker 2: the money and we're going to we'll make it ourselves.
• 2:51:37
  Speaker 2: We'll start it. I'll figure out how to get the
• 2:51:39
  Speaker 2: rest of the money. The night of the rap party,
• 2:51:45
  Speaker 2: I finally Warners gave me a negative pickup deal. Finally
• 2:51:48
  Speaker 2: I had to stop Guba Peters, who had passed because
• 2:51:51
  Speaker 2: it was too dark. Now they tried to jump in
• 2:51:53
  Speaker 2: and make us executive producers, and then they were going
• 2:51:55
  Speaker 2: to be the producer. I just picked up the phone
• 2:51:57
  Speaker 2: Mike Michael trying to get He said, don't even like
• 2:52:04
  Speaker 2: hang up, don't even have to call me back. It's over.
• 2:52:08
  Speaker 2: I said, you got you can He said yes, he
• 2:52:11
  Speaker 2: had that kind of power. He just called him and
• 2:52:13
  Speaker 2: said no, I could go on all day.
• 2:52:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, But the question becomes, Prince himself is not a
• 2:52:23
  Speaker 1: he people?
• 2:52:24
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, he had a hundred songs from Magnoli. He said,
• 2:52:28
  Speaker 2: you pick what you think would work for this movie,
• 2:52:32
  Speaker 2: and the two of them sat there and picked him
• 2:52:34
  Speaker 2: before they shot it. That's the question you were asking before.
• 2:52:38
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask, when the movie is now
• 2:52:40
  Speaker 2: done and the movie is not out yet, do you
• 2:52:45
  Speaker 2: have any idea how successful it's going to be. You know,
• 2:52:50
  Speaker 2: maybe I'm just optimistic, But the fact is I knew
• 2:52:54
  Speaker 2: how crazy Prince fans were. I had made this speech
• 2:52:58
  Speaker 2: to Terry Simmel had a Warner Brothers. Yeah, it would
• 2:53:06
  Speaker 2: daily God d Terry. I said to Terry, imagine if
• 2:53:11
  Speaker 2: you're a young black person, let's say ten to thirty
• 2:53:14
  Speaker 2: thirty five, and you see in the newspaper an artist
• 2:53:19
  Speaker 2: you've fallen in love with or just started his who
• 2:53:21
  Speaker 2: has just started his career and it's having a sensational run.
• 2:53:25
  Speaker 2: You see an ad that says Warner Brothers presents Prince
• 2:53:28
  Speaker 2: in his first motion picture, Purple Rain. If you're a
• 2:53:33
  Speaker 2: black person between I don't know ten and thirty five.
• 2:53:36
  Speaker 2: As I mentioned before, I can't imagine less than I
• 2:53:41
  Speaker 2: figured out the numbers. Forty million dollars would be almost
• 2:53:45
  Speaker 2: a disappointment, and not to mention how many people and
• 2:53:50
  Speaker 2: dollars would come in from the white audience that's already
• 2:53:55
  Speaker 2: become big fans of Prince. So I think what I
• 2:53:59
  Speaker 2: really need is for you to get us a thousand
• 2:54:02
  Speaker 2: theaters or at least eight hundred. I'm not an expert,
• 2:54:07
  Speaker 2: but I've figured out that that's what it would take
• 2:54:10
  Speaker 2: to do the business that I think we can do.
• 2:54:13
  Speaker 2: So Terry calls his head of distribution and asks him
• 2:54:17
  Speaker 2: how he's doing on getting theaters for the movie Purple Rain.
• 2:54:21
  Speaker 2: He says, well, he sounds lackadaisical. He says, you know,
• 2:54:26
  Speaker 2: I can't get the drive ins. Can we can get
• 2:54:29
  Speaker 2: some theaters? Maybe two hundred theaters that would be pretty good.
• 2:54:34
  Speaker 2: And Terry becomes incensed and says, listen, you get me
• 2:54:39
  Speaker 2: a thousand theaters, or I'll find someone who will. We
• 2:54:42
  Speaker 2: got eight hundred theaters. We did. By the way, by
• 2:54:45
  Speaker 2: the end of the year, we had nine hundred. According
• 2:54:48
  Speaker 2: to AI, we had nine hundred and something theaters and
• 2:54:52
  Speaker 2: close to one thousand and we did. Everybody ts different numbers,
• 2:54:58
  Speaker 2: particularly Warner Brothers want him to be lower. But what's
• 2:55:01
  Speaker 2: about eighty to ninety million dollars we did, which is
• 2:55:05
  Speaker 2: on a movie that cost eight million to make, is
• 2:55:07
  Speaker 2: a pretty good business because well, Princess lawyer said, you're
• 2:55:13
  Speaker 2: not producers. I can't get you. I can't let you
• 2:55:16
  Speaker 2: have a real producer deal. You'll get twenty percent of
• 2:55:19
  Speaker 2: how much Prince makes, which is what we would get
• 2:55:22
  Speaker 2: no matter whether I stayed home and then we I
• 2:55:26
  Speaker 2: don't know who else could have produced it, but anyway,
• 2:55:29
  Speaker 2: that's okay. The next movie, Mike Ovid's punished Warner Brothers.
• 2:55:36
  Speaker 2: Mike Ovi's punished Warner Brothers because even though under the
• 2:55:39
  Speaker 2: Cherry Moon we knew was the wrong thing for him
• 2:55:42
  Speaker 2: to do. I had an idea, I had two ideas,
• 2:55:46
  Speaker 2: but he h he insisted on this movie, and Mike
• 2:55:55
  Speaker 2: had a We had a villa in cap Anteue right
• 2:55:58
  Speaker 2: on the cliff overlooking this with an elevator down through
• 2:56:02
  Speaker 2: the cliff to get on. Two Mercedes with drivers multi lingual.
• 2:56:11
  Speaker 2: There must have been a woman who just cut flowers
• 2:56:14
  Speaker 2: and put them around the house all the time. So
• 2:56:18
  Speaker 2: I said, guys, here's what we're going to do. We're
• 2:56:20
  Speaker 2: going to fiddle while roam burns. One of us goes
• 2:56:26
  Speaker 2: that have set every day. The other two do what
• 2:56:28
  Speaker 2: they want. I bought a yacht. I bought a ninety
• 2:56:31
  Speaker 2: three foot Barnetti Italian yacht, which didn't break the bank.
• 2:56:36
  Speaker 2: But because Farnoli grew up with his family had a
• 2:56:40
  Speaker 2: business supplying the yachts in Rhode Island. They played all
• 2:56:47
  Speaker 2: those billionaires with their yachts and stuff, so that was
• 2:56:50
  Speaker 2: their business. So he grew up knowing about both. So
• 2:56:53
  Speaker 2: he found me a yacht that I could afford to buy,
• 2:56:57
  Speaker 2: and he says, we'll have it for eleven twelve weeks,
• 2:57:00
  Speaker 2: that party and the captain will take it over to
• 2:57:05
  Speaker 2: Fort Lauderdale or somewhere, and you'll get all your money back. Frankly,
• 2:57:09
  Speaker 2: I think it cost me thirty thousand dollars to have
• 2:57:12
  Speaker 2: a yacht with five people in it for the whole time.
• 2:57:15
  Speaker 2: Five crew right right. My wife came, she'd never been
• 2:57:20
  Speaker 2: to Monte Carlo. I had the whole thing worked out
• 2:57:24
  Speaker 2: for us. I had the guy with the limo, not
• 2:57:28
  Speaker 2: the limo with the Mercedes, drive down to so that
• 2:57:33
  Speaker 2: he so we didn't have to walk up the hill
• 2:57:35
  Speaker 2: when we to the casino. I mean, it was pretty fabulous,
• 2:57:40
  Speaker 2: but it was sad because we knew we were making
• 2:57:42
  Speaker 2: a stiff of a movie. And what did Prince say
• 2:57:45
  Speaker 2: when it was done? He thought it was wonderful. He
• 2:57:49
  Speaker 2: just he he had he had got off the I
• 2:57:54
  Speaker 2: saw the end.
• 2:58:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, that follows up with even a bigger success, or
• 2:58:09
  Speaker 1: an equally big success with nineteen ninety nine Little Red Corvette.
• 2:58:14
  Speaker 1: Then we have Raspberry Beret. Then I think we have
• 2:58:17
  Speaker 1: the double album. Then you get to the point where
• 2:58:20
  Speaker 1: he gets into the battle with mo. Are you still
• 2:58:23
  Speaker 1: the manager then? I don't think so.
• 2:58:25
  Speaker 2: But I got to tell you about Little Red Little
• 2:58:27
  Speaker 2: Red krat all right, because Prince had a pretty big ego,
• 2:58:32
  Speaker 2: which he deserved to have. So he says to me,
• 2:58:35
  Speaker 2: he used to tell me y Bob sell this song,
• 2:58:41
  Speaker 2: which meant get it up some of the girls to
• 2:58:43
  Speaker 2: do it or whoever. And it was Little Red Corvette.
• 2:58:47
  Speaker 2: And you can't just say to Prince, oh, that's a
• 2:58:49
  Speaker 2: bad idea, bah blah blah. I had to figure a
• 2:58:53
  Speaker 2: way to get it to him. So I thought I
• 2:58:56
  Speaker 2: was pretty clever, and I said to him, I don't
• 2:58:59
  Speaker 2: think you will to give away a song that has
• 2:59:01
  Speaker 2: a lyric as incredible as well. I guess I should
• 2:59:05
  Speaker 2: have known the way you parked your car sideways that
• 2:59:07
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't last. I said, do you think that's sophistication?
• 2:59:10
  Speaker 2: You just want to give it away? He loved it
• 2:59:16
  Speaker 2: right all of a sudden, he said, oh, okay, yeah,
• 2:59:19
  Speaker 2: we should do it. I mean, I thought, this guy's
• 2:59:23
  Speaker 2: got a number one record just the opening line alone.
• 2:59:26
  Speaker 2: Just how did it end with him? He bought us out?
• 2:59:34
  Speaker 2: What was his motivation? I don't know, but let me
• 2:59:38
  Speaker 2: tell you the end result. One year later, he called me, Bob,
• 2:59:46
  Speaker 2: would you be willing if I gave you one hundred
• 2:59:48
  Speaker 2: grand a year? Would you be willing to if my
• 2:59:51
  Speaker 2: people called you to give them your advice? And the
• 2:59:57
  Speaker 2: guy was his bodyguard, great kids, smart kids, So it
• 3:00:01
  Speaker 2: wasn't really that. It wasn't big, the big bodyguard. It
• 3:00:04
  Speaker 2: was one of his guys. I don't remember. So I
• 3:00:08
  Speaker 2: said sure, and we did it for two years, so
• 3:00:12
  Speaker 2: he didn't you know, he never disrespected me. He never
• 3:00:14
  Speaker 2: was terrible to me. No, And were you surprised when
• 3:00:20
  Speaker 2: he died before his time? Way surprised. I didn't know
• 3:00:23
  Speaker 2: he ever had a drug in his life. I never
• 3:00:25
  Speaker 2: dreamed he would. And you know, you can't tell him
• 3:00:28
  Speaker 2: it was all after me. I gotta tell you, I don't.
• 3:00:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think he was. He was working hard. Something
• 3:00:34
  Speaker 2: else happened when he was well. I don't really know.
• 3:00:38
  Speaker 2: I mean he had gotten religion. Was he was he
• 3:00:41
  Speaker 2: getting stoned and doing religion at the same time? Terrible?
• 3:00:46
  Speaker 1: Okay story, legendary spender. Could you tell him that, you know,
• 3:00:52
  Speaker 1: he needed to keep some of the money or he
• 3:00:54
  Speaker 1: just needed to do what he needed to do.
• 3:00:57
  Speaker 2: I don't think we you know, he had an accountant
• 3:00:59
  Speaker 2: that was very close to him. The two of them were,
• 3:01:02
  Speaker 2: and I had a respect for him. I think that
• 3:01:05
  Speaker 2: guy tried as hard as he could. I never got
• 3:01:06
  Speaker 2: involved in that. I mean, Steve might have. You know,
• 3:01:12
  Speaker 2: Steve hung. Steve was in Minneapolis, living in Minneapolis, and
• 3:01:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know when he screwed up. When I knew
• 3:01:22
  Speaker 2: that the writing was on the wall, he fired Steve.
• 3:01:28
  Speaker 2: He's doing a tour of every capital city in Europe,
• 3:01:32
  Speaker 2: pretty much everyone. They're in the first one. It's in Norway,
• 3:01:38
  Speaker 2: and he calls me, Bob. I sent Steve home, you
• 3:01:42
  Speaker 2: have to come. I want you to do the tour.
• 3:01:44
  Speaker 2: Oversee the tour. I said, okay, I'm going to take
• 3:01:47
  Speaker 2: my wife. He said, n's okay, all right, So I do.
• 3:01:51
  Speaker 2: I said, Judie, We're going to go capital cities of
• 3:01:53
  Speaker 2: every country in Europe. Just about we've been before, but
• 3:01:57
  Speaker 2: let's enjoy it. So I go to the first gig
• 3:02:01
  Speaker 2: in right across from Norway is right on the sea,
• 3:02:07
  Speaker 2: but on the Europeans, on the main body on the
• 3:02:12
  Speaker 2: oh from with the island in the north of Denmark.
• 3:02:15
  Speaker 2: It's not an island, it's it's it's not called Denmark,
• 3:02:19
  Speaker 2: and another country the third country Sweden, Norway, Denmark Mamo okay,
• 3:02:29
  Speaker 2: so Denmark, it's the first one. I go into the
• 3:02:33
  Speaker 2: to the gig. Judy and I have a small suite
• 3:02:38
  Speaker 2: and the guy comes up to me and he says, Christ,
• 3:02:39
  Speaker 2: we just put this whole elaborate. The master suite of
• 3:02:44
  Speaker 2: the whole hotel is Princess, and we have it in
• 3:02:47
  Speaker 2: every city. And this time he had us dress it
• 3:02:50
  Speaker 2: up like some raw prince or something. And he's not
• 3:02:55
  Speaker 2: even common, but he's taken a private plane to his
• 3:02:59
  Speaker 2: apartment in on villa, famous villa, and I mean a
• 3:03:08
  Speaker 2: stream in Paris because the girl he hooked up with
• 3:03:13
  Speaker 2: parents won't let her go out of town and come
• 3:03:15
  Speaker 2: to the gates. So he goes to his apartment. He
• 3:03:18
  Speaker 2: has a nice apartment on this important, really important city street.
• 3:03:27
  Speaker 2: So now the sweets empty. So I said to the guy,
• 3:03:30
  Speaker 2: I'm going to take the suite. I mean, get rid
• 3:03:33
  Speaker 2: of this room if you can. If they won't let
• 3:03:35
  Speaker 2: the won't let you, well, I'm still going to every city.
• 3:03:39
  Speaker 2: Judy and I stayed overlooking the Spanish steps in a
• 3:03:42
  Speaker 2: suite that had in the famous hotel. Everybody talks about
• 3:03:47
  Speaker 2: in Rome. The must have had like three hundred four
• 3:03:52
  Speaker 2: hundred square feet of deck to overlooking the Spanish steps.
• 3:03:57
  Speaker 2: The phones were ringing all over the place because there's
• 3:04:00
  Speaker 2: so many bedrooms and stuff in this three I did
• 3:04:04
  Speaker 2: it everywhere, even in London. But he canceled. He canceled London.
• 3:04:09
  Speaker 2: He said, this is how it canceled. This is the
• 3:04:11
  Speaker 2: beginning of the end. Bob, doesn't it rain in London? Yes, Well,
• 3:04:19
  Speaker 2: we're playing We're playing at outdoor stadium, Wembley, Wembley. Won't
• 3:04:23
  Speaker 2: it rain and Wembley. There's a good chance. Yes, So
• 3:04:26
  Speaker 2: then cancel it. I said, I can't cancel this. This
• 3:04:29
  Speaker 2: thing is almost sold out. I mean, it's cancel it. Then.
• 3:04:36
  Speaker 2: What I want you to do is we have a
• 3:04:38
  Speaker 2: gig in somewhere in the middle of Europe and a
• 3:04:40
  Speaker 2: little state. Get a camera crew to film the audience.
• 3:04:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do that gig, and then we're going
• 3:04:52
  Speaker 2: to go back to Paisley Park and make a video
• 3:05:00
  Speaker 2: of my show, of the whole concert concert video, and
• 3:05:05
  Speaker 2: then cancel the American tour. This is the tour that
• 3:05:07
  Speaker 2: would have made us the most money we ever would
• 3:05:10
  Speaker 2: have made. He couldn't have been any hotter, any bigger
• 3:05:13
  Speaker 2: or anything. And that's what he does. I said, nobody's
• 3:05:16
  Speaker 2: going to care about a video. That's not going to
• 3:05:18
  Speaker 2: you think that theaters people are going to get I said,
• 3:05:22
  Speaker 2: they got to come and see you live. Just do
• 3:05:25
  Speaker 2: as you're told. That's when I started to plan my escape.
• 3:05:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, when you restart with third Rail, how do you
• 3:05:35
  Speaker 1: get the ax?
• 3:05:37
  Speaker 2: I just called them, I mean, how do I get
• 3:05:41
  Speaker 2: the acts? Let's see Seal called me he's I said, absolutely,
• 3:05:49
  Speaker 2: love the guy. I also took Paul Abdul on a
• 3:05:52
  Speaker 2: tour of the world, not as a manager, but as
• 3:05:55
  Speaker 2: I wanted. I hadn't driven the bus for a year,
• 3:05:58
  Speaker 2: twenty years, Steve, I didn't know the things I used
• 3:06:02
  Speaker 2: to go from the beginning. So I said, I'll take
• 3:06:05
  Speaker 2: her on a tour of Europe and Asia and never
• 3:06:09
  Speaker 2: been to all these places. I went to play Koala Lumpur.
• 3:06:12
  Speaker 2: I mean I was in places, but it was fabulous,
• 3:06:16
  Speaker 2: you know. And I used the Air Force. I said,
• 3:06:18
  Speaker 2: I'll do a free gig for you, not the Air Force,
• 3:06:21
  Speaker 2: but the Army. If you fly all our equipment over
• 3:06:25
  Speaker 2: and you know, and we get free. Well, I did
• 3:06:29
  Speaker 2: the whole thing. Like I was still a young manager
• 3:06:32
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out how to get get things done
• 3:06:34
  Speaker 2: with a few but you know, with using the least
• 3:06:36
  Speaker 2: amount of money and then and I enjoyed taking it,
• 3:06:40
  Speaker 2: and then I had had enough. Uh we completed I
• 3:06:45
  Speaker 2: think in London. I said goodbye to her. We stayed friends.
• 3:06:50
  Speaker 2: She was married to Emilio Steves and I got to
• 3:06:54
  Speaker 2: be friendly with him. So that was a good experience
• 3:06:59
  Speaker 2: and that prepared me for third Rail. Not that I
• 3:07:03
  Speaker 2: had a plan, but that's how it rolled. Seal was
• 3:07:06
  Speaker 2: next my old secretary, who ended up working with me
• 3:07:15
  Speaker 2: for a long time and eventually managing Seal for a
• 3:07:18
  Speaker 2: while after I got bought out by Disney. That's what
• 3:07:22
  Speaker 2: happened Disney. Well, before we get to Disney, how do
• 3:07:26
  Speaker 2: you get Alanis a kid that worked for me, came
• 3:07:31
  Speaker 2: to me. I got to hand it to him. I
• 3:07:33
  Speaker 2: can't think of his name now, which is terrible, but
• 3:07:36
  Speaker 2: that's because of my age. Whoever's listening. He said, I'll
• 3:07:42
  Speaker 2: work for you for free if you give me like
• 3:07:46
  Speaker 2: half of somebody's secretary and half of an office. I
• 3:07:54
  Speaker 2: got this girl in Canada. I think could make it,
• 3:07:57
  Speaker 2: but I'll do it. But I want to own half
• 3:08:02
  Speaker 2: of it. But I and I want to be the
• 3:08:04
  Speaker 2: front man of you know. Okay, okay, you know when
• 3:08:07
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking, I'm getting a free guy, right. So and
• 3:08:12
  Speaker 2: then it turns out he brings this girl in first
• 3:08:15
  Speaker 2: I heard, so I see and it's she's a dance
• 3:08:18
  Speaker 2: pop girl, right, And I go, this is this doesn't
• 3:08:22
  Speaker 2: even happen. I said, Paul is the last one as
• 3:08:24
  Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned, So forget it. Now. Months go by,
• 3:08:32
  Speaker 2: he says, I need money to go to to Talent Canada,
• 3:08:38
  Speaker 2: you know, getting ready to blah blah blah. I'm really pissed.
• 3:08:42
  Speaker 2: I got to get money. I tell him, go to
• 3:08:46
  Speaker 2: the publishing company and see if you can get them
• 3:08:48
  Speaker 2: to give you a ticket. He got a ticket, so
• 3:08:51
  Speaker 2: I was being that cheap. Now he comes back and
• 3:08:53
  Speaker 2: I said, I listened to these songs, and I go,
• 3:08:57
  Speaker 2: oh my god, what if I done? Because part of
• 3:09:01
  Speaker 2: the contract was that he had to be the front man.
• 3:09:07
  Speaker 2: And I mean, it's fifty to fifty, right, but he
• 3:09:10
  Speaker 2: had to be in charge and he had to pick
• 3:09:13
  Speaker 2: the label at all. So the first thing they do
• 3:09:16
  Speaker 2: is they picked Madonna's label. I go, all right, both
• 3:09:20
  Speaker 2: of you listen to me. One who owns half Madonna
• 3:09:25
  Speaker 2: owns half. That means there's less for you. So secondly,
• 3:09:29
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if Madonna will be jealous of
• 3:09:32
  Speaker 2: the incredible songs you wrote. This isn't the best place
• 3:09:37
  Speaker 2: I can own a label for you. What's the name
• 3:09:39
  Speaker 2: of the label that Phil British label in pil Carson. No,
• 3:09:50
  Speaker 2: the label had an Italian American guy running it. And
• 3:09:58
  Speaker 2: you know I could call him and say, I'm going
• 3:10:00
  Speaker 2: to read you some lyrics. Well, I guess you know
• 3:10:03
  Speaker 2: whatever lyric I was going to read the dirty One
• 3:10:07
  Speaker 2: right right right? Originally, yeah, I want you to do whatever. Yeah,
• 3:10:12
  Speaker 2: so I said, all I have to do is read
• 3:10:15
  Speaker 2: it over the phone. I'll tell him how much he
• 3:10:17
  Speaker 2: has to pay. So they didn't let me do it.
• 3:10:20
  Speaker 2: They were enamored with Madonna, and that was stupid. So
• 3:10:23
  Speaker 2: but okay, So then at the end of that year,
• 3:10:29
  Speaker 2: I thought I should make some money and I didn't
• 3:10:33
  Speaker 2: think she could do it. Again. I understood she could
• 3:10:37
  Speaker 2: do great concert business, etcetera, etcetera. But I I went
• 3:10:41
  Speaker 2: to whatever the name of the Madonna's label was, Maverick
• 3:10:47
  Speaker 2: Maverick Records, and I said, look, if you give me
• 3:10:53
  Speaker 2: thirty million dollars. I won't renegotiate. I won't try to
• 3:10:58
  Speaker 2: renegotiate the second al, but I want thirty million dollars now.
• 3:11:04
  Speaker 2: And it didn't take them five minutes to say okay.
• 3:11:10
  Speaker 2: So I'm in a six million dollar commission, which I
• 3:11:13
  Speaker 2: got three million of. And I said, I've told the
• 3:11:18
  Speaker 2: kid that was the manager. I said, she's never going
• 3:11:22
  Speaker 2: to make a record like that again. I don't think
• 3:11:25
  Speaker 2: she will. I think it's it's her. She had this
• 3:11:29
  Speaker 2: building up inside of her. It's a perfect thing. We'll
• 3:11:31
  Speaker 2: see if it can happen again. But in the meantime,
• 3:11:33
  Speaker 2: you're going to make a fortune on the road. So
• 3:11:37
  Speaker 2: I was kind of right, and she had a wonderful career,
• 3:11:40
  Speaker 2: and she's a great person, and I'm very close friend
• 3:11:43
  Speaker 2: to hers. Still it's it's okay. I mean, I don't
• 3:11:45
  Speaker 2: say I'm a close friend, but when we see each other,
• 3:11:48
  Speaker 2: it's like.
• 3:11:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, did she only have that one album in her
• 3:11:54
  Speaker 1: or was the success so gargantuan that it both doctor
• 3:12:00
  Speaker 1: and burned her out?
• 3:12:01
  Speaker 2: I don't I didn't see that. I thought she made
• 3:12:04
  Speaker 2: a couple of good things after that. Don't you think
• 3:12:06
  Speaker 2: her second.
• 3:12:07
  Speaker 1: I thought the second album was self conscious. She made
• 3:12:11
  Speaker 1: that video where she was nude on the subway. It
• 3:12:14
  Speaker 1: wasn't that the record was bad, okay, but the first
• 3:12:18
  Speaker 1: album it was just totally straight whereas she was.
• 3:12:23
  Speaker 2: I can tell you why. What my theory was, I said,
• 3:12:29
  Speaker 2: we're doomed. She said she's going to India for a
• 3:12:33
  Speaker 2: few months to where she will go and think about
• 3:12:38
  Speaker 2: writing the next record. And I thought the simplicity and
• 3:12:45
  Speaker 2: beauty of what she did lyrically was should have been
• 3:12:50
  Speaker 2: just continue your life. Instead she went to look for
• 3:12:54
  Speaker 2: something bigger and something more deep or whatever. And that
• 3:12:57
  Speaker 2: scared me. And that's, by the way, when she told
• 3:13:00
  Speaker 2: me that is when I said I wanted to get
• 3:13:01
  Speaker 2: thirty million, just.
• 3:13:03
  Speaker 1: To stay there for a second. The album was so
• 3:13:08
  Speaker 1: successful to this day, still successful in retrospect. Was Maverick.
• 3:13:15
  Speaker 1: That was really one of only a couple of records
• 3:13:17
  Speaker 1: were successful. I'm Maverick being on Maverick. Did it end
• 3:13:21
  Speaker 1: up being a good thing or it would have been
• 3:13:23
  Speaker 1: that successful with anybody?
• 3:13:26
  Speaker 2: My opinion, it would have been more successful with Warners
• 3:13:29
  Speaker 2: or Columbia. Okay, Well, when I say Warners are Columbia,
• 3:13:34
  Speaker 2: that's not true warners had it. They it's just if
• 3:13:37
  Speaker 2: they had it one hundred percent, that would have been
• 3:13:40
  Speaker 2: they would have gone crazy. You know, I don't know
• 3:13:42
  Speaker 2: what the difference would be. I couldn't tell you that,
• 3:13:45
  Speaker 2: but I that would be my strongest opinion. It was
• 3:13:48
  Speaker 2: my opinion at the beginning. How did you end up
• 3:13:50
  Speaker 2: going to work for Disney? Got a phone call They
• 3:13:54
  Speaker 2: had been suffering and somebody advised them that I was.
• 3:14:00
  Speaker 2: Here's what happened. I get a call the night of
• 3:14:02
  Speaker 2: the Grammys, the day after the Grammys from Ahmed Urdigan.
• 3:14:08
  Speaker 2: We're somewhat friendly, but not you know, Bobby, you must
• 3:14:14
  Speaker 2: be on cloud nine. I'm trying to do his accent.
• 3:14:16
  Speaker 2: So for me, I said, you know, I'm well, we
• 3:14:23
  Speaker 2: got to know each other from the Woodstock thing that
• 3:14:27
  Speaker 2: control so I said that, and he we were fair
• 3:14:31
  Speaker 2: and I didn't try to hold him up. So he
• 3:14:36
  Speaker 2: was congratulating me. I said, on we do you know
• 3:14:40
  Speaker 2: the word on Wei? He said yes. I said, well,
• 3:14:43
  Speaker 2: I got it. I said, I you would think I
• 3:14:48
  Speaker 2: really give a shit, but I'm excited that my people won.
• 3:14:53
  Speaker 2: But I'm I'm unhappy with myself right now. I don't
• 3:14:58
  Speaker 2: think it's more than a month later, did I get
• 3:15:02
  Speaker 2: a call from Michael Eisner m and he wants to
• 3:15:08
  Speaker 2: meet and he tells me he'd like me to what
• 3:15:12
  Speaker 2: would I think about running Hollywood Records, the whole music everything,
• 3:15:19
  Speaker 2: Disney Records. Well, I started the Nashville record thing, but
• 3:15:25
  Speaker 2: so all of it, and music publishing worldwide series thing.
• 3:15:31
  Speaker 2: So I said, he said, we'll buy your company. I said, well,
• 3:15:37
  Speaker 2: he won't do you any good because either all my
• 3:15:40
  Speaker 2: contracts specify me as the main person, so you know,
• 3:15:47
  Speaker 2: you can't really own it if you want me to
• 3:15:52
  Speaker 2: work for you. So I don't know how we could
• 3:15:54
  Speaker 2: ever do this. And of course with the arrogance that
• 3:15:57
  Speaker 2: only Michael Eisler can have. I loved him, but he
• 3:16:00
  Speaker 2: was really different kind of guy. He goes, oh, what
• 3:16:04
  Speaker 2: could it be worth? Like as if it was like dirt?
• 3:16:07
  Speaker 2: I mean nothing, you know what kind of So I said, oh,
• 3:16:10
  Speaker 2: he said, I said, I don't know. He says, go
• 3:16:11
  Speaker 2: find out why. I said. I go to my lawyer
• 3:16:16
  Speaker 2: whose name is escaping me, and he's so famous Skipper
• 3:16:19
  Speaker 2: and not Skipper and now it's the most famous guy
• 3:16:23
  Speaker 2: music lawyer. Well New York are La la uh manages
• 3:16:28
  Speaker 2: what Branca, not Brancer older. Don pass me, right, thank you.
• 3:16:35
  Speaker 2: So I go to pass me and he says, what
• 3:16:37
  Speaker 2: do you think you want to get? He says, I
• 3:16:39
  Speaker 2: tell him, he said, stay out of this. So he
• 3:16:44
  Speaker 2: picks a number that's more than double I say, and
• 3:16:47
  Speaker 2: it's meaningful money. Let's face it. I was doing okay,
• 3:16:51
  Speaker 2: but this is some serious stuff. And then I go,
• 3:16:56
  Speaker 2: and then I'm there fourteen years, fourteen years I was there.
• 3:17:00
  Speaker 2: It's hard to believe. Okay, you're not the only person
• 3:17:03
  Speaker 2: Irving went to the other side. It's a very different business.
• 3:17:07
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, extracting money from the label as opposed
• 3:17:11
  Speaker 2: to being in control of putting the money out. Yeah,
• 3:17:14
  Speaker 2: but I can tell you that. Okay, first thing that
• 3:17:18
  Speaker 2: happens is I don't have this kind of experience. I've
• 3:17:22
  Speaker 2: never been at very just be very clear. They have
• 3:17:25
  Speaker 2: a child's record business, Disney and Waynea Vista. Yeah, but
• 3:17:28
  Speaker 2: they're popular music business. Other than Paterno, who's originally person
• 3:17:32
  Speaker 2: who signed signed the Queen, they got nothing right. It's
• 3:17:37
  Speaker 2: a black hole. No, I'm well aware of it. Well,
• 3:17:39
  Speaker 2: I'm just establishing where we are. But the fact is that,
• 3:17:44
  Speaker 2: by the way, Queen, eventually I bought it for all
• 3:17:48
  Speaker 2: time distribution rights forever, and that was before that movie
• 3:17:52
  Speaker 2: came out, so I got lucky. Anyway, I'm sitting in
• 3:17:57
  Speaker 2: there in the office ten days after I'm there. It's
• 3:18:02
  Speaker 2: after ours. I'm sitting at my desk by myself, and
• 3:18:05
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at the numbers, which is not anything that
• 3:18:08
  Speaker 2: was I was used to. I did it, but I
• 3:18:12
  Speaker 2: and I see how many employees. I see the cost
• 3:18:16
  Speaker 2: of the Paris office on Via, a famous street on Paris.
• 3:18:22
  Speaker 2: I know because that's where Prince's apartment was. You can't
• 3:18:26
  Speaker 2: spend more money. And we have a distribution center, a factory.
• 3:18:31
  Speaker 2: Look at a building with employees in it. I say,
• 3:18:36
  Speaker 2: I have four hundred and fifty six employees, plus an
• 3:18:39
  Speaker 2: expensive distribution center and a This is ridiculous. So I
• 3:18:46
  Speaker 2: call Michael. I tell them if I can't, I understand,
• 3:18:50
  Speaker 2: this will be a problem. The only way I think
• 3:18:53
  Speaker 2: I have a chance at being successful is if I
• 3:18:55
  Speaker 2: can get rid of three hundred people, close that distribution center,
• 3:19:00
  Speaker 2: and make a deal with Universal or somebody and close
• 3:19:03
  Speaker 2: the Paris office. Took him a day, but he finally
• 3:19:07
  Speaker 2: gave me yes. I thought he would, but maybe he wouldn't.
• 3:19:11
  Speaker 2: So now then he said, but there's one thing you
• 3:19:13
  Speaker 2: have to do. You have to keep so and so
• 3:19:14
  Speaker 2: I forget the guy's name. He was a lawyer who
• 3:19:18
  Speaker 2: was running it after paternal got kicked out. Doesn't matter,
• 3:19:23
  Speaker 2: he said. I said, I can't do that. He looked
• 3:19:26
  Speaker 2: at me. You know, Michael Eisler, I'm telling you, you
• 3:19:29
  Speaker 2: got to keep this guy. He says, why not. I said,
• 3:19:33
  Speaker 2: because he thinks he's me and I'm not going to
• 3:19:35
  Speaker 2: start off with that. He understood that. Of all people,
• 3:19:39
  Speaker 2: probably he would understand that because he was pretty political himself.
• 3:19:44
  Speaker 2: So I got my way. I get to unload the people.
• 3:19:49
  Speaker 2: It takes me a year and a half to get
• 3:19:50
  Speaker 2: rid of that Paris office though, because the government you can't.
• 3:19:55
  Speaker 2: But you can't just let people go. It's the whole
• 3:19:59
  Speaker 2: process anyway. So that was a start. And then I
• 3:20:06
  Speaker 2: made a couple of hits rock bands from them somewhere
• 3:20:13
  Speaker 2: in the middle of the country. I forget all the
• 3:20:16
  Speaker 2: things we did. Then I hired my son, who did
• 3:20:22
  Speaker 2: some great work, including Phil Collins singing You'll Be in
• 3:20:29
  Speaker 2: My Heart, which was gigantic and rob I mean, it's
• 3:20:34
  Speaker 2: famous story of how they all Phil Collins, the head
• 3:20:37
  Speaker 2: guy for one of music, the film Music, saying we
• 3:20:41
  Speaker 2: don't have a hit. We don't because the song just
• 3:20:44
  Speaker 2: was laying there. And Rob comes in to me after
• 3:20:49
  Speaker 2: lunch says, listen to this, and the only added was
• 3:20:53
  Speaker 2: from from from from from this little rhythm pattern underneath
• 3:20:56
  Speaker 2: the song, and Phil sang the shit out of it
• 3:20:59
  Speaker 2: and a giant hit. I mean, it's a few billion plays,
• 3:21:04
  Speaker 2: more than five billion plays, something like that. So he
• 3:21:08
  Speaker 2: did good. But I sold him. I said, all you
• 3:21:10
  Speaker 2: need to do to get the right deal that Warner Brothers,
• 3:21:14
  Speaker 2: because he started as the guy who listened to the
• 3:21:18
  Speaker 2: tapes that Moe Austin got and wrote up. He wrote
• 3:21:23
  Speaker 2: a card as to what Mos should say. In the
• 3:21:25
  Speaker 2: way he wrote it was Joe, you should feel that,
• 3:21:28
  Speaker 2: you know, like I said, So I just had to
• 3:21:30
  Speaker 2: read it. And Rob was very good at everything. He
• 3:21:33
  Speaker 2: really really is. He's a great musician too, so but
• 3:21:39
  Speaker 2: he couldn't get his own office. They weren't treating him right.
• 3:21:43
  Speaker 2: He had produced, already produced Green Day, the first album.
• 3:21:49
  Speaker 2: So I said, come with me. I said, if you
• 3:21:51
  Speaker 2: want to go back there in three years, you'll get
• 3:21:54
  Speaker 2: whatever you want. And that's what he did. That's what
• 3:21:56
  Speaker 2: he did because he wasn't I wasn't going to let
• 3:21:58
  Speaker 2: him ruin his career staying at this that wasn't really
• 3:22:00
  Speaker 2: good for him. Could do a few movie things, but
• 3:22:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, look at all the stuff he produced. I
• 3:22:05
  Speaker 2: don't know if you have any idea how long that
• 3:22:07
  Speaker 2: list is. I mean, he did the groups. I don't
• 3:22:12
  Speaker 2: even know. It's just very successful. Yeah, I know this.
• 3:22:16
  Speaker 2: You know what he gets every year? Well I shouldn't
• 3:22:19
  Speaker 2: say this, just to be clear. You're talking about royalties,
• 3:22:22
  Speaker 2: no airplane money. What do you call it? Streamscap BMI.
• 3:22:29
  Speaker 2: It's gigantic because as a producer, I didn't know you
• 3:22:33
  Speaker 2: could you get a taste of how many plays if
• 3:22:36
  Speaker 2: you get a if you get like the song Iris,
• 3:22:42
  Speaker 2: five and a half billion plays, that five and a
• 3:22:45
  Speaker 2: half billion, I said billion. He said, yeah, yeah, that.
• 3:22:50
  Speaker 1: Well you're talking about not that you're talking about the
• 3:22:53
  Speaker 1: actual streams, which are like sales. But there's streams and yeah.
• 3:22:57
  Speaker 1: The funny thing is in the old days that couldn't
• 3:22:59
  Speaker 1: happen because they wouldn't have stocked a record in a
• 3:23:01
  Speaker 1: physical shop. You know, things would be they would always
• 3:23:05
  Speaker 1: get the let the old inventory go. But that's got
• 3:23:07
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with it.
• 3:23:08
  Speaker 2: I didn't know about that, but I I thought that
• 3:23:11
  Speaker 2: was something new, because all of a sudden, there's all
• 3:23:13
  Speaker 2: this money. Like I was at lunch with Ken Bunt,
• 3:23:20
  Speaker 2: who runs Disney, took my place. I promoted him to
• 3:23:26
  Speaker 2: do it. I mean, I told Bob that this guy
• 3:23:28
  Speaker 2: is ready for the modern music business. He's the guy
• 3:23:31
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, not anybody else. And Bob a year later said,
• 3:23:37
  Speaker 2: thank you for that great gift you left me. I said,
• 3:23:39
  Speaker 2: what gift? He said, Ken Bunt. So I'm I was
• 3:23:43
  Speaker 2: happy to please Bob. But iris is a funny story.
• 3:23:48
  Speaker 2: I mean I was. I really liked Don Steele. She
• 3:23:52
  Speaker 2: made this movie City of Angels, and she came to me,
• 3:23:57
  Speaker 2: and I used to always kidd her, I'm not going
• 3:24:00
  Speaker 2: to be your fucking music supervisor. Hire one. I am
• 3:24:03
  Speaker 2: your partner, for christ sake, I'm an executive producer whatever
• 3:24:06
  Speaker 2: that means. Anyway, she begged me. She said, one it
• 3:24:10
  Speaker 2: says it cries out for music, and you you know
• 3:24:13
  Speaker 2: I can't just get some somebody. I need something special.
• 3:24:16
  Speaker 2: I said, I'll try, I'll do it for you. So
• 3:24:19
  Speaker 2: I called Rob Alanis, and the best songwriter I know
• 3:24:23
  Speaker 2: of the kids that I managed was you know, Johnny Resnant.
• 3:24:29
  Speaker 2: So we go, we sat screening. They see the movie,
• 3:24:32
  Speaker 2: they like it, they or whatever. It'stursday, it's Wednesday. On Friday,
• 3:24:36
  Speaker 2: I hear the going in the studio because I have
• 3:24:38
  Speaker 2: to approve something on Monday. My son walks in and
• 3:24:41
  Speaker 2: he says, he puts two cassettes on my desk. He said,
• 3:24:44
  Speaker 2: put that one in first, Johnny's I put it in
• 3:24:48
  Speaker 2: and I go, oh my god. The opening line is
• 3:24:51
  Speaker 2: that you know, I'll give up, I'd give up forever
• 3:24:53
  Speaker 2: just to be with you. And the music goes and
• 3:24:55
  Speaker 2: it goes and it goes. I got goosebumps. Now, I said,
• 3:24:57
  Speaker 2: this is a monster. Then I hear Atlantices and I
• 3:25:01
  Speaker 2: think this is really good. Now. I wanted to get
• 3:25:04
  Speaker 2: on the Wings of an Angel, which was on Columbia.
• 3:25:09
  Speaker 2: I wanted to add that to my album, and uh,
• 3:25:13
  Speaker 2: Clive had pissed on it, you know, he said, well,
• 3:25:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to give you that. That's no. Like,
• 3:25:19
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what this picture is. I don't know.
• 3:25:22
  Speaker 2: So then instead of asking him again, I sent him
• 3:25:25
  Speaker 2: the two songs and the one song by anyway, I
• 3:25:30
  Speaker 2: forget one other song. And I said, add on the
• 3:25:35
  Speaker 2: Wings of an Angel by your girl, and we're going
• 3:25:38
  Speaker 2: to have a monster album. He did give it to me.
• 3:25:41
  Speaker 2: So that album is huge, just huge. So I don't
• 3:25:47
  Speaker 2: know where I'm going here? Is that was uninvited? With
• 3:25:50
  Speaker 2: the Atlanta song, Yes, that was a complete return to form.
• 3:25:53
  Speaker 2: I love that song. Yeah, She's I knew it was good.
• 3:25:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't think it would be as any as big
• 3:26:00
  Speaker 2: as Johnny's. Johnny's is now forever. So what'd you learn
• 3:26:06
  Speaker 2: being at Disney the confirmation? As I told the board
• 3:26:12
  Speaker 2: of directors when some snotty guy went into the Board
• 3:26:15
  Speaker 2: of directors just before I go in, I've never gotten
• 3:26:18
  Speaker 2: to the board directors. I have no training whatsoever, as
• 3:26:21
  Speaker 2: Maurice as Maurice, as Michael Eisner points out, as we're going,
• 3:26:25
  Speaker 2: he says, you've never been trained? Have you business school?
• 3:26:28
  Speaker 2: I go no, Like I'm offended, right right? He said, well,
• 3:26:33
  Speaker 2: maybe we should get Colin that was my business manager,
• 3:26:36
  Speaker 2: that my accountant. Guy. No, I said, I'm here, I'll
• 3:26:40
  Speaker 2: do it. So I go in and sure enough a
• 3:26:43
  Speaker 2: guy stands up. I'm at the podium. He says, what
• 3:26:48
  Speaker 2: makes you think I have to fall these? However, many
• 3:26:50
  Speaker 2: years of this horrible. He just put that pist on
• 3:26:53
  Speaker 2: everything right. He said, what makes you think you can
• 3:26:56
  Speaker 2: make a difference, I said, because you've hired lawyers to
• 3:26:59
  Speaker 2: run the place. I said, the music business is very
• 3:27:03
  Speaker 2: simple in my mind. You have to know what it is.
• 3:27:07
  Speaker 2: You have to know how to help make a hit.
• 3:27:10
  Speaker 2: And if you can pick a hit, whether you're efficient
• 3:27:14
  Speaker 2: or inefficient or any of that means nothing. All the
• 3:27:17
  Speaker 2: things that make Disney work aren't necessarily it's the whether
• 3:27:21
  Speaker 2: somebody knows what a hit song is. And that's I
• 3:27:24
  Speaker 2: picked them in the sixties. Yeah, because what makes you
• 3:27:27
  Speaker 2: think you're going to be different? I picked them in
• 3:27:29
  Speaker 2: the sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties, and now I'm going
• 3:27:32
  Speaker 2: to pick them for you. I don't see why it
• 3:27:34
  Speaker 2: would be so why it would be anymore any different
• 3:27:37
  Speaker 2: than anything I've done before? And I said, it was such.
• 3:27:40
  Speaker 2: I was so pissed at this guy. He was so
• 3:27:42
  Speaker 2: pissed that Michael ushered me out of it, and I
• 3:27:46
  Speaker 2: never went to the Board of directors again. Then how
• 3:27:49
  Speaker 2: did it end with Disney? Beautifully? I got to be
• 3:27:52
  Speaker 2: seventy two. I was tired of it. As fact, I
• 3:27:55
  Speaker 2: always get of everything, And she said, do you want
• 3:27:59
  Speaker 2: to go on or what? Because at seventy two, every
• 3:28:02
  Speaker 2: benefit you can get you have. So I said, no, bye, okay,
• 3:28:07
  Speaker 2: let's go back to the movie business after you get
• 3:28:09
  Speaker 2: out of rehab, et cetera. Relatively speaking, records are let's
• 3:28:17
  Speaker 2: forget technology today. Last century records are much much cheaper
• 3:28:22
  Speaker 2: to make.
• 3:28:23
  Speaker 1: You can make it. It can be a stiff whatever.
• 3:28:27
  Speaker 1: Getting a movie off the ground is nearly impossible, I know,
• 3:28:31
  Speaker 1: and frustrating. So as someone who came from the music business,
• 3:28:35
  Speaker 1: did you accept this or did you say this is
• 3:28:37
  Speaker 1: too frustrating?
• 3:28:38
  Speaker 2: I got to get out. No. I got out because
• 3:28:42
  Speaker 2: I realized that you need either youth, really young, so
• 3:28:51
  Speaker 2: that you're spending twenty four to seven, you're out every
• 3:28:53
  Speaker 2: night hearing and talking about the business. It's a whole
• 3:28:59
  Speaker 2: way of life. I was already I don't know, fifty
• 3:29:03
  Speaker 2: is whatever I was. I had miles on me, and
• 3:29:08
  Speaker 2: I realized I understood the business after working with them.
• 3:29:11
  Speaker 2: I love Dawn Steel. I have a funny story for you. Well,
• 3:29:16
  Speaker 2: it's funny you love her because she was known as
• 3:29:17
  Speaker 2: the Queen of Mean, Queen of Mean. I have a
• 3:29:20
  Speaker 2: cover of the Maga variety whatever. But I loved her
• 3:29:23
  Speaker 2: because she I watched how she worked and she was
• 3:29:27
  Speaker 2: really good and she was good to the kids that
• 3:29:29
  Speaker 2: worked for her. She was mean to the secretaries and stuff.
• 3:29:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know about that. Fact is she
• 3:29:35
  Speaker 2: comes walking her over with she used to set up
• 3:29:38
  Speaker 2: for Monday morning. She'd sit here and I'd sit there,
• 3:29:42
  Speaker 2: and then these four or five kids would sit out
• 3:29:44
  Speaker 2: here and they all had shit to do over the weekend.
• 3:29:46
  Speaker 2: On Monday, everybody reported and I'm sitting there. So at
• 3:29:52
  Speaker 2: the end of the meeting, she comes walks over and
• 3:29:54
  Speaker 2: she's like, Wattles, you know, she's only about that begre
• 3:29:56
  Speaker 2: it's over to me and you missed her. She starts
• 3:29:59
  Speaker 2: with that you're going to because she's going to get
• 3:30:01
  Speaker 2: me to do a record for her, and I go,
• 3:30:05
  Speaker 2: I hit her in the stomach like this. First of all,
• 3:30:07
  Speaker 2: back up about five feet. So that became the only
• 3:30:13
  Speaker 2: young people that worked at this at the Chuck and Dawn's.
• 3:30:16
  Speaker 2: Really that was their company. There's a lot of young
• 3:30:18
  Speaker 2: people work. They all just kept saying. My wife told
• 3:30:21
  Speaker 2: me because she used to come in the afternoon. She said, Bob,
• 3:30:24
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't believe somebody will say something to somebody else say.
• 3:30:27
  Speaker 2: First of all, back up about anyway. Dawn Dion' wasn't offended.
• 3:30:31
  Speaker 2: She loves She even laughed. I mean, I finally I said, okay,
• 3:30:35
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go. I'll do something for the soundtrack
• 3:30:38
  Speaker 2: for City of Angels, and my son and those three,
• 3:30:43
  Speaker 2: those three people did it. I mean, all I did
• 3:30:46
  Speaker 2: was make a phone call and set up a screening
• 3:30:49
  Speaker 2: and they brought it in. I don't know if it
• 3:30:52
  Speaker 2: helped the movie or not, but it certainly gave them
• 3:30:55
  Speaker 2: some income from a soundtrack. Okay, you retire from this.
• 3:31:00
  Speaker 2: What do you been doing the last one? First of all,
• 3:31:02
  Speaker 2: I've been doing. First thing I did was over eat, overdrink,
• 3:31:06
  Speaker 2: not drink, but you know I'd have two martinis instead
• 3:31:11
  Speaker 2: of one. Stuff like that. I was just so. My
• 3:31:14
  Speaker 2: son came in with a picture of his trainer, who
• 3:31:16
  Speaker 2: was rather well endowed female. She said. He sees me
• 3:31:21
  Speaker 2: on the couch. He says, so, what are you going
• 3:31:22
  Speaker 2: to sit on the couch looking at TV till till
• 3:31:27
  Speaker 2: you die? Or are you're going to come come with me?
• 3:31:30
  Speaker 2: And this is my trainer dad. So he says, you
• 3:31:34
  Speaker 2: want me to go to the gym. He said yeah,
• 3:31:36
  Speaker 2: So I said, okay. That started and then one thing
• 3:31:40
  Speaker 2: led to another. I weigh two hundred pounds now I
• 3:31:42
  Speaker 2: weigh one hundred and sixty one. Other than working out,
• 3:31:46
  Speaker 2: there's twenty four hours in a day. What keeps you busy? Well,
• 3:31:49
  Speaker 2: until recently, golf has always been a part of in
• 3:31:54
  Speaker 2: my life and travel. I took a whole family too,
• 3:32:02
  Speaker 2: for eleven people for three and a half weeks in Europe.
• 3:32:10
  Speaker 2: Let me put it this way. You know, I needed
• 3:32:15
  Speaker 2: to work as long and as hard as I do,
• 3:32:18
  Speaker 2: but there was wonderful trip. I took a villa in
• 3:32:22
  Speaker 2: Tuscany for eight nights that had eight bedrooms on suite
• 3:32:29
  Speaker 2: tennis court pool. We had a tennis match that lasted
• 3:32:34
  Speaker 2: a week. Of all the people, the young people, just
• 3:32:38
  Speaker 2: the only audience was me and Judy. But and the
• 3:32:42
  Speaker 2: kids were funny. My grandson's one of them rented a car,
• 3:32:46
  Speaker 2: so all of a sudden there was a car on
• 3:32:48
  Speaker 2: the lot, and at like about ten ten thirty at night,
• 3:32:52
  Speaker 2: the car would leave. Then they go into Florence and
• 3:32:57
  Speaker 2: he had found some club that was really good. I mean,
• 3:33:00
  Speaker 2: let's put it this way, it was great. I played
• 3:33:02
  Speaker 2: golf in Italy, I play. I made sure I had
• 3:33:07
  Speaker 2: master's degree in art history in Paris, and I mean
• 3:33:10
  Speaker 2: in Rome and in Florence to take everybody. I didn't
• 3:33:17
  Speaker 2: go to all of it. I went to the Vatican
• 3:33:19
  Speaker 2: because we got in early in the morning with no people.
• 3:33:22
  Speaker 2: But other than that, I made sure they saw all
• 3:33:25
  Speaker 2: the stuff Judy and I had seen all our lives,
• 3:33:27
  Speaker 2: because Europe was Earth When and fire Prince everything I've
• 3:33:32
  Speaker 2: been there, as well as our own personal trips. Matter
• 3:33:37
  Speaker 2: of fact, when I took my father and say, when
• 3:33:39
  Speaker 2: I made some money, I thought I should take my
• 3:33:43
  Speaker 2: parents to Italy to see the four relatives they had.
• 3:33:47
  Speaker 2: In Rome there was a architect, a lawyer, nuclear scientists,
• 3:34:02
  Speaker 2: and the guy at his job was the head of
• 3:34:06
  Speaker 2: maintenance for al Italia Airline. So we took al Italia
• 3:34:10
  Speaker 2: to go, me, my fourteen year old and twelve year
• 3:34:15
  Speaker 2: old kids and my parents. We land in Rome airport
• 3:34:20
  Speaker 2: and they said, could the Cavallo family please stay on
• 3:34:24
  Speaker 2: in their seats for the plane empties now somebody drags
• 3:34:30
  Speaker 2: the plane somewhere and then they said, okay, you can
• 3:34:33
  Speaker 2: go now. And then we go to the door and
• 3:34:34
  Speaker 2: they opened the door and down on the bottom. It's
• 3:34:37
  Speaker 2: the four people couples with flowers, and they were applauding
• 3:34:42
  Speaker 2: when we stand. They welcomed us in that way because
• 3:34:46
  Speaker 2: the guy was a big cheese at the Al Italia,
• 3:34:49
  Speaker 2: so he was able to do that. And then I
• 3:34:52
  Speaker 2: spent a month there. It was the most amazing month,
• 3:34:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, and we went to a restaurant the first
• 3:34:59
  Speaker 2: night we got to the hotel. So when I took
• 3:35:04
  Speaker 2: this trip last year, the one whatever, thirty years later,
• 3:35:13
  Speaker 2: thirty five years later, my wife says, wouldn't it be
• 3:35:17
  Speaker 2: wonderful if we could go to the restaurant that we
• 3:35:20
  Speaker 2: first went to when the guy, the matre d of
• 3:35:23
  Speaker 2: the hotel or the whatever he was, walked us to
• 3:35:27
  Speaker 2: a restaurant that he said, it's not a tourist place,
• 3:35:30
  Speaker 2: but it's my rest It's a restaurant that I would
• 3:35:32
  Speaker 2: go to and you will like it. It's because we
• 3:35:35
  Speaker 2: were exhausted from the trip, so he had to walk
• 3:35:38
  Speaker 2: about eight blocks ten blocks. So we're all sitting there
• 3:35:43
  Speaker 2: and Rob, my son is not paying attention. Now, mind you,
• 3:35:48
  Speaker 2: he was fifteen or fourteen. I mean, that's that's about it.
• 3:35:54
  Speaker 2: When when we went first to Rome, so my wife says, yeah,
• 3:36:00
  Speaker 2: we were trying to figure out what the name of
• 3:36:02
  Speaker 2: the restaurant was. We went the first time we came
• 3:36:04
  Speaker 2: and he said, oh, yeah, I know it tier Rosto Fiorentina.
• 3:36:08
  Speaker 2: He says it like that. So I call up to
• 3:36:10
  Speaker 2: see if it's still there. Not only is it still there,
• 3:36:12
  Speaker 2: it's a famous, great restaurant. And so we went and
• 3:36:17
  Speaker 2: then we spent, like I said, almost one whole month.
• 3:36:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, when Ahmed calls you in the nineties, you say
• 3:36:27
  Speaker 1: you have a sense of on week you stop working
• 3:36:31
  Speaker 1: at seventy two.
• 3:36:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a mistake because because I just got slovenly.
• 3:36:40
  Speaker 2: I you know, my son got me a working out
• 3:36:47
  Speaker 2: getting back to golf, which I was pretty good. And
• 3:36:53
  Speaker 2: I financed the building of two homes in just a
• 3:37:00
  Speaker 2: little north of Venice, Santa Monica, Santa Monica, thank you.
• 3:37:06
  Speaker 2: Two homes. There three real estate deals I did. I
• 3:37:12
  Speaker 2: made plenty of money, but I did them in a
• 3:37:13
  Speaker 2: way where they were the safest way, which meant that
• 3:37:16
  Speaker 2: I had to pay the most taxes. I am a
• 3:37:19
  Speaker 2: fifty percent of what I made went to the government
• 3:37:21
  Speaker 2: between the state, you know. So now I'm moving into
• 3:37:25
  Speaker 2: a judy and I are moving into a retirement home
• 3:37:29
  Speaker 2: called Wisteria in Woodland Hills. I mean, let me put
• 3:37:35
  Speaker 2: it this way. It's expensive. I mean seriously expensive. It's
• 3:37:40
  Speaker 2: twenty four hundred square feet. That's less than half of
• 3:37:43
  Speaker 2: what I have now, but large for a retirement home. Yeah,
• 3:37:47
  Speaker 2: well this is three point two million. So you get it.
• 3:37:52
  Speaker 2: And it's not real. It's complicated. Just just so I know.
• 3:37:56
  Speaker 2: Do they provide any services? Yeah, like, is there like
• 3:38:00
  Speaker 2: a assuming you want the use they have like a
• 3:38:03
  Speaker 2: central dining hall and stuff like that. They have three restaurants.
• 3:38:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it is a retirement area. I just want
• 3:38:09
  Speaker 1: to get Yeah, no, it's truly that. There are three restaurants.
• 3:38:13
  Speaker 1: You get amount of a certain amount of points. You
• 3:38:14
  Speaker 1: can't go crazy, but you can eat pretty much if
• 3:38:18
  Speaker 1: you wanted to eat a very eleve, like in the
• 3:38:21
  Speaker 1: best restaurant, they have the high ended one. There are
• 3:38:24
  Speaker 1: three of them, so the high end one you could
• 3:38:27
  Speaker 1: eat in it. I figured it out. You could eat
• 3:38:28
  Speaker 1: in it every night if you wanted to. And the
• 3:38:32
  Speaker 1: only thing you pay for is your breakfast.
• 3:38:34
  Speaker 2: You could make that at home. You could make it
• 3:38:35
  Speaker 2: in your apartment and forget about it. The nature of
• 3:38:38
  Speaker 2: a manager, some dus. Do you have any royalty streams
• 3:38:41
  Speaker 2: or the money you've made from the musicvis already made? No,
• 3:38:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 3:38:44
  Speaker 1: Well, well, listen, let me go back. This is a
• 3:38:47
  Speaker 1: business of smoke and mirrors. People don't really know what
• 3:38:50
  Speaker 1: goes on on the ground, and most people don't have
• 3:38:53
  Speaker 1: access to the people. And like you talk about Clive,
• 3:38:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of people they're not projecting the reality. And
• 3:39:00
  Speaker 1: so the fact that you project the reality, I mean,
• 3:39:03
  Speaker 1: I know, I know people whose names are on records
• 3:39:06
  Speaker 1: made some of the family. You know, they're living in
• 3:39:07
  Speaker 1: an apartment somewhere. They don't have any money. It's a
• 3:39:10
  Speaker 1: bit it's to understand where it's going.
• 3:39:12
  Speaker 2: I mean. The interesting thing with you, I still haven't
• 3:39:15
  Speaker 2: quite kneeled the part of your personality that allows you
• 3:39:18
  Speaker 2: to do this. But you've reinvented a number of times.
• 3:39:21
  Speaker 2: You started from zero. To use the classic line when
• 3:39:24
  Speaker 2: it comes to a manager, they say, anybody can get
• 3:39:28
  Speaker 2: lucky once, but can you do it again? That's a
• 3:39:31
  Speaker 2: difference between I think what I'm good at is recognizing
• 3:39:35
  Speaker 2: talent and recognizing the kind of talent and personality traits
• 3:39:40
  Speaker 2: that are required for someone to put up with the
• 3:39:43
  Speaker 2: torture of trying to become successful. That's a personality trait
• 3:39:48
  Speaker 2: that I I think I have insight into. I suspected
• 3:39:53
  Speaker 2: the couple that failed. I suspected that this might be
• 3:39:57
  Speaker 2: not a successful enterprise because I don't don't know if
• 3:40:00
  Speaker 2: this guy has what it takes to stick with it,
• 3:40:03
  Speaker 2: you know how. To me, they have to be driven,
• 3:40:08
  Speaker 2: and it's got to be a pleasure to be driven. Well,
• 3:40:13
  Speaker 2: I think talent is at most fifty percent. You have
• 3:40:18
  Speaker 2: to be driven, and the most successful people are maladjusted
• 3:40:24
  Speaker 2: trying to fill a hole inside. That's what drives them.
• 3:40:28
  Speaker 2: That's a great insight.
• 3:40:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I admit they're not like the average person
• 3:40:32
  Speaker 1: or the person so oh that person has a great voice.
• 3:40:35
  Speaker 1: Great from there to being you know on TV, there's
• 3:40:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of other personality traits. But also I mean,
• 3:40:44
  Speaker 1: as you talk about the love and spoonful, when Albert
• 3:40:47
  Speaker 1: says you're unafraid, most people are afraid or when they're
• 3:40:53
  Speaker 1: around people with power, they don't not a handle. I mean, listen,
• 3:40:57
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff I've learned. If you meet
• 3:41:01
  Speaker 1: someone that you might want to do business with, they
• 3:41:03
  Speaker 1: don't want to know how good you are. They want
• 3:41:05
  Speaker 1: to know what kind of person you are, can you
• 3:41:07
  Speaker 1: get along whatever, Then we'll talk about what you can
• 3:41:10
  Speaker 1: do for us.
• 3:41:11
  Speaker 2: And to be able to have that meeting.
• 3:41:12
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, this is not the same thing,
• 3:41:15
  Speaker 1: but it is. If you want to talk to talent,
• 3:41:18
  Speaker 1: you can't fond. Yeah, you know, I'm not talking about
• 3:41:20
  Speaker 1: trying to be a Manager's different thing. When you run
• 3:41:22
  Speaker 1: into talent, you say, oh, I love this. I love that.
• 3:41:24
  Speaker 2: They hear that all day long. You got to relate
• 3:41:26
  Speaker 2: to people as a person. That's what they look I think.
• 3:41:29
  Speaker 2: I think I'm pretty good.
• 3:41:30
  Speaker 1: Well as I say, it's my nature. No, no, you're
• 3:41:34
  Speaker 1: better than good, because you couldn't be this successful. But
• 3:41:36
  Speaker 1: let me go back to a different thing that I'm
• 3:41:38
  Speaker 1: interested in. Okay, I'll be personal about it. So I'm
• 3:41:45
  Speaker 1: seventy three. The people who are still in the music
• 3:41:50
  Speaker 1: business are running the companies or their route for numerous reasons.
• 3:41:56
  Speaker 1: Live you can work a little bit more certainly on
• 3:41:58
  Speaker 1: the recording end. There are different jobs people can have.
• 3:42:03
  Speaker 1: I know people who are doing the identical thing they've
• 3:42:06
  Speaker 1: been doing for forty years. I don't know how it
• 3:42:09
  Speaker 1: keeps them interested. Okay, just like you're talking about anwi. Okay,
• 3:42:16
  Speaker 1: at age sixty, you've seen the trick. You know what
• 3:42:19
  Speaker 1: life is about age seventy. What I mean by like that,
• 3:42:23
  Speaker 1: if you say something's hyped, you're serial do it. If
• 3:42:26
  Speaker 1: it's that good, I'll find out about it. I don't
• 3:42:28
  Speaker 1: need to buy into this. Whatever you turn seventy, you
• 3:42:32
  Speaker 1: know you're gonna die. You could die in a minute,
• 3:42:34
  Speaker 1: you could dine another thirty years, but it's there.
• 3:42:38
  Speaker 2: I'm this age. I'm younger than you, but I'm not young.
• 3:42:43
  Speaker 2: Nobody I know.
• 3:42:45
  Speaker 1: Will admit they're going to die and deal with that concept.
• 3:42:50
  Speaker 1: It's like, this is freaky. You know, things have changed.
• 3:42:55
  Speaker 1: It's weird. I don't have children. You have children, have
• 3:42:57
  Speaker 1: to worry about what the world's going to be like.
• 3:43:00
  Speaker 1: No one wants to talk about everyone's Oh it's the
• 3:43:01
  Speaker 1: same as it ever was. You're older than me. How
• 3:43:06
  Speaker 1: do you avoid this sense of on Wii?
• 3:43:09
  Speaker 2: Or is it just family? Oh? No? That on Wii
• 3:43:13
  Speaker 2: I had was that I realized how remarkable the night
• 3:43:19
  Speaker 2: we had it to Grammys, and I couldn't get excited
• 3:43:22
  Speaker 2: about it. But it doesn't mean I can't get excited
• 3:43:24
  Speaker 2: about hitting a great golf shot, or watching a great movie,
• 3:43:29
  Speaker 2: or I mean there's things that still fill me up,
• 3:43:32
  Speaker 2: even a great meal. You know, I really watch what
• 3:43:36
  Speaker 2: I eat. But the fact is, I'll go and spend
• 3:43:39
  Speaker 2: a fortune just to if something to you know, have
• 3:43:43
  Speaker 2: something really wonderful. I mean, I can appreciate a lot
• 3:43:46
  Speaker 2: of things. I think I understand that I'm very close
• 3:43:51
  Speaker 2: to the end. But who knows. I mean, I can't you.
• 3:43:57
  Speaker 2: I can't be philosophical about it. I'm not well spoken
• 3:44:01
  Speaker 2: enough to give it. But I know I have it
• 3:44:04
  Speaker 2: in good perspective, like I don't know how long I'll
• 3:44:08
  Speaker 2: be here, but I'm enjoying every minute of it. My
• 3:44:10
  Speaker 2: wife is still even though she has what do they
• 3:44:14
  Speaker 2: call it ms MS? But she all that's happened to her.
• 3:44:21
  Speaker 2: They gave us the thing ten years ago, two or
• 3:44:24
  Speaker 2: three years. It's going to be very very difficult. She
• 3:44:29
  Speaker 2: uses a walker. She looks as beautiful as when I
• 3:44:32
  Speaker 2: met her, and she I mean, she looks after herself.
• 3:44:37
  Speaker 2: She works out a couple of times a week, she
• 3:44:39
  Speaker 2: watches what she eats, and we're both happy. I mean,
• 3:44:42
  Speaker 2: now we say we's time to move in. We know
• 3:44:47
  Speaker 2: we go to this place we can be everybody jokes there, Bobby,
• 3:44:50
  Speaker 2: you'll be the mayor if you go to that place there.
• 3:44:53
  Speaker 2: But the fact is, you talk, you meet people like
• 3:44:57
  Speaker 2: the guy Steve Polochek, the Czech's jewelers in the valley,
• 3:45:01
  Speaker 2: very successful, super successful. He's got the other penhouse on
• 3:45:07
  Speaker 2: the other corner of the same building, same floor. They're
• 3:45:10
  Speaker 2: all on the tough floor. When I say you don't
• 3:45:14
  Speaker 2: really buy the thing, you give them that money, right, right, right, right? Yeah?
• 3:45:18
  Speaker 2: I know, yeah, Okay, So there's enough meaning for you.
• 3:45:22
  Speaker 1: You're not at loose ends or dragging through. There's enough context.
• 3:45:28
  Speaker 1: You stay in a good space mentally, pretty.
• 3:45:31
  Speaker 2: I think so. Yeah. I enjoy well, I enjoy my family.
• 3:45:36
  Speaker 2: My son is just a magnificent human being. My daughter,
• 3:45:39
  Speaker 2: my daughter took me here. She's great too. I mean, okay,
• 3:45:43
  Speaker 2: just we know so much about your son as a
• 3:45:45
  Speaker 2: public figure. What is your daughter's life. What does she
• 3:45:48
  Speaker 2: do all day? She manages some people who haven't made it. Okay,
• 3:45:55
  Speaker 2: I'm rooting for her. I mean, she has a daughter
• 3:45:59
  Speaker 2: who's it's pretty spectacular. Who lives in New York.
• 3:46:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, Other than your family, how social AREO?
• 3:46:08
  Speaker 2: All my friends are dead except oh I have new
• 3:46:11
  Speaker 2: friends now, but they're just not my kind of guys.
• 3:46:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're okay, they're good people, but they're different,
• 3:46:16
  Speaker 2: you know, they're I had to rambler gambler kind of
• 3:46:20
  Speaker 2: guys for many years. They're all dead or the one
• 3:46:24
  Speaker 2: one that lives in West Palm. He's younger than me.
• 3:46:28
  Speaker 2: He was our club champ, fabulous guy. He ran the
• 3:46:33
  Speaker 2: company that made the album covers. Okay, and the other
• 3:46:37
  Speaker 2: guy lives in Columbia in Italy, I mean in South America,
• 3:46:44
  Speaker 2: and I can't explain what he's doing there, but anyway,
• 3:46:49
  Speaker 2: he's my age, so he's there now. I think he
• 3:46:51
  Speaker 2: got married. First, he went there to have two or
• 3:46:55
  Speaker 2: three women living with him, but then now he's married,
• 3:46:58
  Speaker 2: whatever that means. But everybody else gone. One of my
• 3:47:01
  Speaker 2: closest friends was the five time Ted mentioned him. He
• 3:47:07
  Speaker 2: was five times. I called him a five time loser.
• 3:47:10
  Speaker 2: He was nominated five times for cinematography. He made some
• 3:47:16
  Speaker 2: great movies. I had a guy who we used to
• 3:47:21
  Speaker 2: go to Pebble Play every year, play up there for
• 3:47:27
  Speaker 2: three days, four days in a row. He was a
• 3:47:32
  Speaker 2: producer of the There would be four big pros like
• 3:47:37
  Speaker 2: Nald Palmer, Jack Nicholas, the Latino guy who I love
• 3:47:41
  Speaker 2: so much, Trevino and uh and one schmuck that his
• 3:47:46
  Speaker 2: name is escaping me right now. But Gary Blair, No, No,
• 3:47:49
  Speaker 2: I loved Garrek. Trying to think of the big No.
• 3:47:52
  Speaker 2: He's a big, tall guy. I never remember his name,
• 3:47:55
  Speaker 2: and it's it's a block that. The point is he
• 3:47:58
  Speaker 2: had to write us a letter of a apology. But
• 3:48:01
  Speaker 2: I played. I went into this tournament every year. This
• 3:48:03
  Speaker 2: guy was a producer for CBS for a long time.
• 3:48:07
  Speaker 2: And these are the guys I hung out with. There
• 3:48:10
  Speaker 2: was one guy who was a manager of the poor
• 3:48:13
  Speaker 2: guy killed himself. Comedian actor San Francisco, which is not
• 3:48:19
  Speaker 2: Richard Jenny. No, No, I mean bigger name, big, the biggest.
• 3:48:24
  Speaker 2: Oh god, this is what this time of day I lose.
• 3:48:27
  Speaker 2: My memory doesn't matter. The fact is I had to
• 3:48:30
  Speaker 2: eat like a lot of cool guys. So I had great,
• 3:48:35
  Speaker 2: great times, and now I don't have the energy to
• 3:48:40
  Speaker 2: have quite those great times. I do play a couple
• 3:48:42
  Speaker 2: of times a week, and I practice twice a week, workout,
• 3:48:50
  Speaker 2: lift weights, through all kinds of stuff. Okay, you talked
• 3:48:53
  Speaker 2: about new friends. Where do you make new friends? Now?
• 3:48:55
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping in this new place because I don't have to,
• 3:48:59
  Speaker 2: you know, traveled to do it and I have. These
• 3:49:01
  Speaker 2: guys at the club are nice. I belong to El
• 3:49:03
  Speaker 2: cab for El Cavallero Country Club since nineteen seventy three.
• 3:49:09
  Speaker 1: Wow, So, Bob, you told some great stories, a lot
• 3:49:14
  Speaker 1: of connected, a lot of dots. I loved hearing them.
• 3:49:16
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being here and talking to my audience.
• 3:49:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, I enjoyed it. Thank you.
• 3:49:21
  Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob left sets