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Short Stuff: The Retirement Curse · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. Chuck, Jerry, Dave,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: short stuff, tally ho.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking about retirement today and specifically what can
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: be referred to as the retirement curse, which is this
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: idea that, you know, maybe you're doing fine in life
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: and you're chugging along at your job and then you
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: retire and you encounter all sorts of problems, maybe mental
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: health problems, maybe physical health problems. And retirement can be
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: the trigger to that kind of thing.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I think it's one of those things
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: where a lot of people are familiar with anecdotally, like
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: maybe they've seen somebody, you know, just their health declines
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: very quickly or it's just something changes for the worse
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: from retirement. Um, and it's actually quantifiable. Um, and apparently
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: five to six years after retirement, this is just the
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: average American. I suspect it's not quite as bad elsewhere.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: And in fact, I couldn't find mention of the retirement
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: curse as we're presenting it anywhere else. It does seem
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: to be a semi American phenomenon.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: But there's this, uh, The average American shows a 6%
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: to 9% decline in mental health within the first five
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: to six years after retirement. A 5% to 6% increase
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: in illness condition, right?
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: A 5% to 16% increase in difficulties with daily activities.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: And when they control all the other variables, they're like,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: it seems to be retirement. But of course, retirement itself
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: is not doing this to you. It's all the life
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: changes that come from retirement.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It's that transition. How you deal with that
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: is really, really key and something that you really got
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: to think about going into it. I hope if you're
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: a person of retirement age, you've got a plan in place.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk more about that. But it seems
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: like the worst cases are when people just retire and
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden they're like, wait a minute, I
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: have my days free all the time. I'm not going
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: to this place anymore. If you went to an office,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: let's say. I'm not surrounded by people every day that
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I normally might be. You know, going to work is
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: mental engagement. And, you know, even if you're not doing
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: like hard labor, just getting up and getting out of
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: bed and going to an office and moving about the
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: world represents some kind of physical activity. And especially if
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: when you retire, you just kind of hit the couch
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: or the recliner. That's that's a big difference.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, like those people that you're interacting with, even
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: if you work from home, just interacting with them on
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: calls or via email, like you don't have that all
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: of a sudden. If you start emailing those same people,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: they're like, you retired. Go do your thing. I'm trying
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: to work here. Yeah. You know, they don't let you
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: in on calls any longer. And so if you don't
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: already have a pretty tight circle of friends outside of work,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: which a lot of Americans do not.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Especially as you get older, it just gets harder and harder.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: to make friends. And because you spend a lot of
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: your time at work, those people become your friends de facto.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: If you don't have that network already in place, you
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: need to go figure out how to do it because
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: that is probably ultimately what's behind the decline more than anything.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And like we said, we need you
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: need to have a plan in place for, you know,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about exercise and social engagement and stuff like that,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: or maybe just keep working or work part time or
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: volunteer and And maybe we'll take a break and talk
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: a little bit about those work statistics right after this.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I got this from the Bureau of Labor Statistics here
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: in the United States, kind of the picture over the
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: years of, of when people stop working. Uh, I think
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: in 1948, uh, the, the rate of people age 65
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: and older working was 27%. Um, 47% of men, 9%
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: of women, um, age 65 and older started trending down
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: in the latter half of the 20th century and hit
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: its lowest point in 1985. And only 10% of, uh,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: people of the age of 65 were working. And since 1985,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: that started to grow and started to trend upward, like
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: people working later and later. Right. Because sometimes economic necessity,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: sometimes just preference. And then the last year I had available,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: at least, was 2024, when it was about 19% of
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  Speaker 2: people age 65 and over still working. And I think 38%
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: of those were doing so part-time.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: You can also like the fact that it hit its
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: low point in 1985. That's just about the time the
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: unions got broken up and pensions went away and got
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: replaced by 401k.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So and that is one reason why a lot of
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: people stay in the workforce is financial necessity. When I
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: was looking for the retirement curse abroad outside of the
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: United States. One reference I found was in Australia, but
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: essentially what they were talking about was the retirement curse
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: of outliving your savings. And a lot of people are
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: scared to death by that idea. And there's a lot
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: of people in the United States who are like, I
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: have to keep working. I don't have a choice because
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to keep living longer beyond my savings. So
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: that's a big one, especially because we don't have universal
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: single payer free health care here in the United States.
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  Speaker 1: That gets more and more expensive the older you get.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: And you happen to need it more and more the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: older you get, too. So the insurance plan that mostly
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: you get that through your employer, you used to before Obamacare.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: If you have a good insurance plan that you don't
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: pay that much for through your employer, that in and
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: of itself is reason enough to keep working for a
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: lot of Americans. Yeah.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: End of life care is really, really, really expensive. Another reason.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: It's a real screw job.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: It is. Yeah, you work your whole life and then
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: get hit with a tremendous bill that you can't afford
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: at the end of it.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
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  Speaker 2: It's sad. So personal choice is another reason. People are
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: generally healthier and living longer these days compared to previous decades.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: And so a lot of people just want to keep
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: working because it gives them a sense of purpose, something
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: They want to keep joining those calls.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and remote work is another reason why people
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: are working a little later because, hey, you're at home,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: so no skin off your back.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Yep. So there's actually a Harvard study that was like, okay,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: what's behind all of this? Because yes, everybody, you know,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: has some sort of anecdotal data, but there's got to
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: be some factor that really rises above everything else. And
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Harvard's been studying this cohort of 724 men for over
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: 75 years now. There's only 60 of them left and
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: they're all in their 90s. But every two years they
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: track their health. They ask them about their satisfaction in life.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: And they found that when you separate the wheat from
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: the chaff, the cream from the milk, the peanut butter
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: from the chocolate, what stands is social connections. And we've
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: talked about this before, and it makes me really nervous
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: every time we do. But the more social connections you have,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: the more connected you are with other people, the more
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: you interact with other people, the happier you are, the
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: longer life you have, the less disease burden you have
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: into old age.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: And just the better off you are in general. It
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  Speaker 1: seems to be the underlying thing for health into old age.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. The fourth, this is an amazing study,
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  Speaker 2: the Harvard Study of Adult Development. And the fourth director
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: is a guy named Robert Waldinger, who is a psychiatrist.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: And he has an awesome TED Talk that I recommend
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: people watch. And it's a TED Talk. So it's not
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: more than what?
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: 18 minutes or something?
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  Speaker 1: I don't remember what the, when the.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a set length. I can't remember, but. It's
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: called What Makes a Good Life? Lessons from the Longest
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Study on Happiness. And he reiterates what you said is that,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: you know, those relationships are kind of the key to
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: remain socially connected and loneliness is toxic. So, you know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: you want to avoid that stuff, both physically and mentally.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: And on the physical side, one kind of obvious things
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: that you should do is, I mean, if you're a
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: runner and you do cardio and you can keep doing that,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: that's great. But strength training and stretching and stuff like that,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: resistance exercises is a really big deal to start doing
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: or continue to do if you don't do it already
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  Speaker 2: as you get older.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: It's enormous. It helps keep your bones healthy. It helps
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: keep your muscles strong. It prevents things like sarcopenia where
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: you develop a stoop. Balance is a big one because
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: falls are a big problem as you get older. So
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: strength training, resistance training, that helps your balance as well.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: And You also just want to move. One thing I'm
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: heartened by is there's so many people who I see
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: out taking walks in the middle of the day every day.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's great. And that's a big part of staying,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I guess, healthy or just living life is getting outside
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  Speaker 1: and moving around, even if it is just going for
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: a walk, you know, or chasing pigeons at the pond.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's, you know, one of the mental aspects
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: is daily routine. And if that's chasing pigeons is your thing.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Like you need to you need to have a plan
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: in place and have a routine and not just be like, well,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: what's the day going to throw my way? You know,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: you also need to eat, you know, eat well, obviously,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: nutrient dense foods and get get really good sleep. That's key.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: But like getting out in the world is a big one. And,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: you know, I think everyone has seen this maybe sadly
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: somewhere in their family. Like the worst thing you can
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: do is turning that television on during daylight hours.
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  Speaker 1: It gets worse though, Chuck. If you turn it on
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: and you turn it on to cable news, you're toast. Yeah.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Not only are you going to die, but your family
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: wants you dead now.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: It's a problem. It is.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: When you start sitting on the couch and watching TV
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: during the day, it's you know, it can be the
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: beginning of the end. So you need to be out
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: in the world. You need to try and learn some
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: new things like it's you can get so inspired by seeing,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: you know, either on social media or whatever or news
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: stories when you see some of our senior friends out there.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: like taking a dance class for the first time or,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: or a new hobby or learning an instrument or a
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: new language or something like that, like that is just
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: food for your brain.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like if your local community is like putting a
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: one penny tax or something, um, to, to build a
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: new senior center, that's money well spent.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Agreed. Um, and then of course you can volunteer, you
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: can mentor. There's a lot of stuff you can do. Um,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I think the point is to just keep doing stuff.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Like you said, resist the trap of just sitting on
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the couch all day, you know?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the retirement curse is self-inflicted generally. So you
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: hopefully have a choice as to how you spend your
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: remaining years. And we say, because I'm 55, dude, that's
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: coming for me sooner than you. And I want to
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: be out in the world. I want to be one
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: of those old guys who, Out there on the golf
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: course in his 90s or taking a, I want to
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: learn to dance, finally, in my 80s.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. What kind of dance?
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Modern? Jazz?
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Breakdancing.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, that'd be great. The breakdancing grandpa. There's your second
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: chapter right there.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: There you have it.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, I think this short stuff proved that we
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: are becoming old men and look for short stuff in
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: the future on sitting. And I think Chuck's short.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: Stuff is out.
• 12:09
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• 12:12
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