Latest / Integrity at Scale™ / The Owner's Room: On Winter and (Finally) Embracing Dormancy
Transcript
- Okay, my friends, today we are going to be talking about winter. I'm not talking about the actual season of winter. I'm talking about the metaphorical season of winter that we experience as leaders. That's what we're gonna get into. My name is Dr. Tara Vossenkemper and you were listening to the Culture Focus Practice podcast. Thank you, as per usual for being here with me. So there's a moment when we look at our business and we basically just feel done, like realize that we're done trying to force spring as much as we might love spring. And I have been man, ignoring this whisper of winter and I've been scared of it and running from it and trying to, force spring, in essence. And for whatever reason something has changed within me. Something is not the same. I'm done with playing by the rules of everyone else's game. Please tell me, you know that reference. My point ruins the same. I'm just done. I can't stay in spring. I can't force spring. And I have finally started to embrace the dormancy that comes along with winter. And I don't mean this in a dramatic way. I don't mean it in a burnout crisis sort of way. I think I mean it in a grounded. Purposeful hibernation, dormancy acceptance way. So this owner's room is about that. It's about letting myself be in the season of dormancy on purpose instead of pretending like I can avoid it or like I'm supposed to be producing or blooming in terms of a spring year round. And true to owner's room style, we'll do this by way of a series of five or six questions and one to two scenarios. No listicles, no bulleted content, no structured teaching, nothing like that. Just open exploratory questions and we'll see where things go. And I will say before we keep going to make sure you subscribe to the podcast. This not only allows you to stay up on any episodes that are being dropped, but it also allows you to more easily binge listen into previous episodes and helps other people find it who need to hear it. With that said, let's carry on. Uh. Question number one, what does it mean to admit I'm in winter, and what have I been afraid would happen if I slowed down? Damn, coming in with that banger. What does it mean to admit I'm in winter? Hmm. So maybe three months ago it would mean something different than what it means right now, and what have I been afraid would happen if I slowed down? Death. I mean, that sounds nuts to say out loud, but like it feels like death. I think winter and dormancy have felt like some sort of death. I mean, that's just wild as I say it out loud, and I've probably said it on here before because it's been a, I mean, this isn't like new, but it's still the first thought that popped in my head. It actually reminds me of being pregnant where it's like I, when I am pregnant, I feel like it's gonna last forever. Like it's just like, oh my God, this is my fucking life. Like this is just it. Like I'm just gonna be pregnant forever. I'm gonna be that woman that they found who had a calcified baby in her stomach 'cause she never gave birth. And it just stayed there and it was like, you know what I'm talking about? There was like this mummified woman who had a calcified baby in her stomach. Anyway, that's what I feel like is gonna happen. It's that it's just gonna be forever. It's just going to be dormancy and hibernation forever. It also reminds me of some philosopher whose name I can't remember saying that to fall asleep on a nightly basis is like experiencing a mini death because when you drift off into sleep, you're basically drifting off into nothingness. Like we're just sort of trusting we're gonna wake up again, Anyway, it all feels like the same thing. Like, this is going to last forever. This is just going to be it. So if I go dormant, if I hibernate, if I burrow into a den and stay there for months on end, it feels like it's gonna last forever. It's like I don't. I don't know, trust maybe like I, I don't know if it's something about trust, it's just the, there's something about like nothingness that fucks with me, like something about voids and those giant holes in the middle of the ocean that are super dark and they're really, really deep. Uh, it makes me wanna vomit a little bit. Like all of that is the same fear. It like all circles around the same concept, although I don't exactly know what it is. Maybe it's just voids and nothingness and it's just scary. You know? I think those things are scary for me. So as fucked up as that probably sounds, that has been what I have been afraid of. If I slowed down, like there's been this process of having to grapple with dormancy and winter and emotional grappling is what I mean with reconceptualizing winter as a time to internally recharge for spring rather than something that will last forever. And it still has been scary each step of the way. It's not something that I do naturally or sort of like organically. Like I don't, I don't go in that space well. So then to admit I'm in winter, like what does it mean to admit I'm in winter? I think there's probably, um, something about submission, like something about like, it's, I'm just having to submit to a process that needs to take place so it doesn't feel like exciting. Like it doesn't feel something I'm sprinting toward and I'm super enthusiastic about. It feels like i'm tired of springtime. It feels like I'm a bear that's fatten the fuck up and doesn't really wanna move anymore. I just wanna go to sleep and I just wanna like chillax and hibernate until springtime rolls around again. At which point when I wake up, I'll be hungry and active and like wanting to ingest and do things. So I think it means that I've submitted to something that needs to take place. And I don't mean that in some sort of like dominance submission. Like I don't mean it in that sort of way. I just mean it feels like I'm, I, I don't know what the word is that I'm looking for, but there's something about like acceptance of a necessary cycle, something like that. So I think I've exhausted that question. I think I'm still grappling with all of this too. So I'm hoping that it's coherent because it is still sort of happening as I'm talking about it. But I do still think I'm done talking about that question, so, okay. Question number two. How long have I been overriding my own internal seasons? This question, man. Forever. I don't know, for as long as I can fucking remember. Okay. So yes, probably forever. Like I just probably for as long as I can remember. I mean that sincerely. Like I remember being in middle school and high school and college, you know, like constantly going. Constantly thinking, constantly planning, constantly moving, like just going, just go. But here's what I will say. In my defense, if there was a part of me or a factor or a variable that was related to running from winter, I will say that was minimal for a very long time. My constant movement has almost always been like an excess energy, like wanting to do so many things, like wanting to gorge myself on life, wanting to do all the things that I want to do, being excited, being like interested in all of the things that I was doing. And so I think like the overriding my own internal seasons and the terror about dormancy and winter and it feeling like death. I feel like that's been a much more recent development. Maybe it's always been there. I'm not saying that it hasn't been, but what I am saying is that that hasn't been a truth for me. Like that hasn't been an active conscious variable for most of me overriding my internal seasons. So if I'm thinking about this from a, like Tara becomes a little more aware of a need to slow down but doesn't know how and slash or scared to do it. I would say it's been a solid few years of this taking place. Like three at minimum. Probably a little bit more. But like three is the number that's really coming up for me where it's like, I think three years. This is again from the point that I became more aware of sort of this, I would say desire, like a subtle pulse or like hum of something happening inside of me that was like. Stop slow down, like trying to get me to still a little bit. And that's the shit where I was like, what? Wha you know, like hitting it away like a fly or something. That's the stuff that I was ignoring for a long time. So coolio. Let's keep going. Question three, what parts of me were still trying to perform Spring when? When my system was asking for dormancy, so what parts of me were still trying to perform Spring when my system was asking for dormancy. I think the parts of me that are just excited about things that light me up. That's gonna be a big one. I think trying to force Spring was about to some extent, at least trying to feel the sense of focused, grounded, like intentional movement that I felt at the very beginning of even my group practice and the first few years for sure of doing it. There was this like real intentional aligned and vision oriented movement. And I probably could have worked 24 7 and would've been fucking thrilled. You know, there still would've been more to do, of course. But. So I think that a part of me was still trying to, I'm gonna say chase, that feeling like I think I was conflating me actively creating that feeling by way of doing more or trying to do more instead of really sort of accepting and realizing that me doing things was a function of the feeling. It was a product of the feeling. It wasn't the other way around. And so, the part of me that likes that space, being in this like grounded, clear, focused, productive state that's really aligned and really vision oriented, that's what I was still trying to get at. So trying to perform Spring, I think was also about that feeling. No, not, I think, I know it was also about that feeling because I would re think to myself, I would start working on something and think, man, this is great. Like this is the feeling, blah, blah, you know, whatever. I'd be excited about this feeling. And then it would fade. It would be a matter of maybe a week or two, and then it would sort of like fizzle. And it's like I kept trying to restart that, but it never really worked. And so that's not to say that there aren't things that I enjoy doing. And that's not to say that there's not meaning in the work that I'm doing. I, I think I wanna like clarify when I'm talking about dormancy now, I'm not even necessarily talking about like removing myself entirely from anything and everything work related. I think what I'm really talking about is gifting myself with space to just be still and relax and rest rather than trying to potentially produce or trying to do something more or new or extra or you know, whatever any other word that fits in that camp. So yeah, ultimately I think the part of me still trying to perform spring when my system was asking for, and this could have been at the beginning when it was starting to ask for, and then it's that like pulse of can you slow the fuck down? Tara got louder. Dormancy when it was asking for dormancy is the part that wanted that feeling whenever there was like clear groundedness that was real aligned and vision focused. So I still love that feeling. Ugh man. It's incredible. But I don't think it can be created. I don't think it can be manufactured. I think it's a probably, at least what I think right now, and this might change and this is a hypothesis 'cause I don't really know 'cause I don't winter very well or very often, but I think that it's probably a result of a relaxed state, like having space to just turn inward and like reflect and sort of relax and ground in. And not, not that I'm stepping into dormancy to get to that feeling, but my thought is that if I'm stepping into winter, then the season that typically follows the spring and so. I don't have anything in mind for what spring in the future looks like. And quite frankly, I'm fucking tired. Like I don't even wanna think about spring in the future. I just want to be in winter and in dormancy. So let's keep going. Okay, question four. What is the difference between winter as collapse and winter as a choice? Ooh, this is, um, super interesting. I think that winter as collapse is honestly maybe a little bit of what was happening for me, where it's like nothing was really sticking. And I kept trying to force spring and I wasn't really working and I kept feeling like just an internal war between needing to do certain things but not necessarily wanting to do certain things and not to the extent that I was feeling resentful or bitter or even overwhelmed, really. Just like, man, I don't really wanna work on this. Like that sense of like I want to do something was just like kind of pitiful, honestly, but also feeling a need to still do certain things. So I think maybe that is more of winter esque collapse. I think maybe at an extreme it's like real crispy burnout. Like if it kept going that way, it might lead to something like intense burnout. I don't think that necessarily has to though, but I think that that's a possibility. I think maybe another possibility with winter as collapse is trying to produce a bunch of things or trying to like really grow or scale or produce or whatever and then it just never works. Like nothing sort of feels or fits right. It could also be a product of, you know, a bunch of other business related things. But let's say that stuff is all cleaned up and then you're trying to actively do something and it's not working. Like maybe this notion of like, is it seasonally appropriate? Is a now a filtration process? Like a filtration question for, for me, I think it should be, and maybe for all of us. Versus as a choice? So what's the difference between winter as collapse and winter as a choice? I mean, I'm talking about this. I'm not some fucking expert or something on any of this. I'm just like in the process of doing it. And so therefore, talking about it helps me make sense of it. And my guess is also that at least some of you listening resonate with this experience. And so hopefully it's either helping you think about it as well, or it feels validating, or it's something that you might think to yourself, oh fuck, I need to make sure I'm like paying attention to this. So then I think for me, winter as a choice is I feel more relieved and a comfortable anticipation of it. Of this sense of dormancy, of this sense of kind of shutting shit down that's extra and not putting energy into anything that isn't immediately restorative or satiating. And I think that being able to emotionally and conceptually and energetically like grapple with this concept for a few months, probably, if not longer, has helped me to be in a place where I feel more I'm, I mean, relieved, like a little more okay with this than I have been. So yeah, I think winter as a choice ultimately is relieving and okay, even if it's still a little bit scary, if it's new versus winter has collapse, potentially feels like defeat or feels like failure or feels like. Literal, like physiological or physical or visceral, like collapsing of your system and then it's much harder to repair and rebuild from there. I like that question. I'd be interested in other people chiming in on this, like I would, I'm just curious what other people think about winter as collapse or a choice and like if you've gone through one or the other, or even like the notion of winter if you've experienced this makes me wonder what you've grappled with. Like what's been hard for you in the process, if anything? Maybe you're somebody who's constantly cycled through metaphorical seasons and it's sort of like habitual for you. It's like normal. It's okay not having been that person. It's very new and has absolutely been a process to get to the point that I can even start to see winter as relieving instead of like metaphorical death. Yeah. Let's keep going. Question five, what responsibilities or identities have been keeping me from resting? Hmm. You know, I don't mean to keep reiterating the same point, but I, I think that it's the part of me that wants the feeling of aligned, vision, focused, intentional building, like that feeling is one of my favorite feelings, probably. I love all feelings, but I love that feeling. It's so great. It almost feels like what I imagine a flow state is like in the moment, but like expanded where it's more almost like a flow channel. Like all your moves, you're just fucking keyed in, like you're locked in, you know what you're doing. Everything is lining up. That's the state that I'm talking about. So I don't know if there's been responsibilities necessary that have been keeping me from resting. I think it's way more my own parts, my own internal system as well as the part of me that wants that flow channel state. And it's, it's, I think the language of this question is not really doing it for me. It's not, it doesn't feel like it's been keeping me from, I mean, it has been keeping me from resting, I guess, and being a dormancy, of course, coupled with the fear and the terror of nothingness, but also. It doesn't feel like it's actively been attempting to keep me from resting. It feels more like it's about chasing that feeling, like that one feeling that I love the channel flow state. So I think the keeping me from resting has been a product of what I've been doing, but not like the focus, if that makes sense. I'm good with that question now. Okay, last one. Let's do six. Where in my business have I been producing out of obligation instead of resonance? This is fucking good, man. Um, so there's two businesses. 'cause of course there's my group practice, you know, which is my, my og. And in that I think that what has helped me shift into this dormancy mindset, or like again, grappling and thinking about winter is because I have moved so much of my role in my group practice into alignment with being a visionary, that I feel much less like I'm doing things out of obligation rather than resonance. There are some things that I do that I am doing out of obligation, but they take up like much less time than the resonance stuff. So it almost feels like because I've been able to do that, that has inadvertently created space for me to like feel this elsewhere in my life. And honestly, what feels most relevant here is consulting. Like where in my consulting business have I been producing out of obligation instead of resonance? I mean a real talk. I am sunsetting my membership because it has felt obligatory and honestly kind of flat. Like I don't wanna do something that doesn't light me up. I don't wanna do something that is constant where I'm constantly on, you know, I'm constantly trying to produce things or trying to share resources all the time, I just, I don't have it in me. And that's been obligation. I think, you know, I do an EOS mastermind twice a year. That's incredible. I love the EOS masterminds. I love helping people bring that to life. And even my level two Mastermind, it's about helping people continue the implementation of an active use of the os. I fucking love this. That feels like resonance. The podcast. Doing this is, I don't know, awesome. Like, I like having space to sit and talk and hopefully be of value to people. You know, it's like, it's not just me talking about all the shit that's on my mind 'cause that would be literally everywhere. But having focused questions and focused content and you know, that feels good. So these feel like resonance in my consulting world. But when I think of like the membership, there's no resonance. It does not, it doesn't work for me. When I think about even creating like evergreen content stuff that's constantly at the ready, I don't have any sort of interest in doing this. And so what's really happened, I think again, probably in the past few months, is that I've started to reconceptualize consulting more than my group practice. 'Cause the practice has felt more resonant and vision aligned, like what I said, or role aligned, excuse me. But I've realized my consulting has been made up of some pieces and parts that feel more like they are things that I thought you were supposed to do and maybe I was initially excited about, but then have transitioned or become things that don't work with me. Like I don't ever wanna be constantly on. I wanna do my own thing when I wanna do my own thing, which maybe sounds selfish, but also is just reflective of how things live inside of me. It might be a DHD honestly, like the hyper focus piece kicks on and it's like I'm all in, but when it's not there, I can't fucking force myself to even do the dishes if I don't want to. It's like, well then why would I, you know, keep a membership alive or I have to do the same thing every month regardless of whether or not I want to. Oh bro. It's just, it's just doesn't work for me. That's all. It's obligation. It's not resonance, it's obligation. So, so yeah, I think. Again, in my business where I've been producing out of obligation, I've seen more in the consulting side of things than in my group practice side lately, which is really interesting and really insightful. It's actually been really helpful to go through this process. Um, let's keep going then. So we did some questions. Now we've got two scenarios because both are good. So I'm gonna gift you with both and gift myself the space to talk through both. I think, you know, with the scenarios, I'll read through, they sort of don't end like they just get a scenario and then I'm just gonna riff on what I think might be happening or what I might do in that situation or what I might recommend somebody do if I was working with them. So let's do it. Scenario one, a practice owner has built a beautiful functional team and a solid client base, but on the inside, they're exhausted. Not in a dramatic crisis way, but in a quiet bone, deep level way. Everyone sees them as steady, capable, and consistent, but they know they're running on stored sunlight from a past season. Yikes. Ugh. They keep showing up because it's what a good leader does, but they secretly fantasize about disappearing for a month and letting everything run without them. They don't want to quit. They want to stop pretending. Fuck me man. That is good. I don't know if you feel like that's good, but that is really, really good. Really relevant. Okay, so has a great functional team. A solid client vice, vice solid client, vice solid client base, but inside their exhausted in a quiet bone level way. I feel like this is the person that's me. Like maybe not exactly, but I mean by what I mean, this is the person that's me, or maybe I relate to some of this would be, it seems like they are not letting winter unfold. I think that's the thing, like running on stored sunlight from a past season, like even that fucking language man, it makes me think about the chasing the feeling from the very beginning of my practice. It's like bottling that and trying to use it, trying to unleash it and use it. They keep showing up because it's what a good leader does, but they secretly fantasize about disappearing for a month and letting everything run without them. They don't wanna quit. They wanna stop pretending. I mean, I don't, I don't mean to just be flippant with this because I would really be interested in talking to this person and. Understanding a little more thoroughly, like what is at play with this for them? So like they keep showing up because it's what a good leader does. They secretly fantasize about disappearing for a month and letting everything run without them. I would wanna know why. Like, I, I don't know. I think I'd wanna know like, what do you mean what a good leader does? Like, tell me more about this and tell me what happens if you do take a month off and just let things run without you and like, what is going on? You know, what is coming up for you? Is it about abandonment? Is it about, um, guilt or like fear things won't run? Or if you have a beautiful functional team and a solid client base, then theoretically you could step away for a full month. I have a friend that does that and it's fucking awesome for her. You know, she takes a month off each year and so my thought is. Why, like, why wouldn't you be able to do that? They don't wanna quit. They want to stop pretending. I think that also is kind of telling, like there's something that feels, maybe, maybe reads is a little bit, um, I'm gonna say performative, but I, I don't mean that with any sort of like, um, negative connotation. I just mean there's something about I'm doing what I should. There's something about, i'm acting in a way that I think I'm supposed to, you know, like the obligation and the shoulds and the must and the Albert Ellis type stuff. I think that I would want to know more because then from there, if we can figure out like what, tell me a little bit more. Are you afraid things are gonna break down? And if so, what specific things and can we tend to those and then fix them so that you actually can take a month off? Are you afraid your team's gonna feel abandoned? Which is obviously way more emotional and like internal than it is necessarily like, uh, about the group. And my thought also is that if they are steady, capable, and consistent, like everyone sees them as steady, capable, and consistent. I think I'd wanna know, like, is that really hard for them to do? Like they work really hard at doing that, or they just naturally end up being steady, capable, and consistent. I'm of course personalizing this a little bit. Like I'm, I'm putting a little bit of myself into this. It's really hard for me to be steady, capable, and consistent for all of the people around me, which is why I have an integrator, which is why I have a director of clinical operations because the people that need steadiness capable ness and consistency are the employees I want them to have that I'm not gonna be good at doing it. That's the constantly on piece that I was talking about from one of the questions before. I'm not good at that. I don't wanna be constantly on, I don't wanna be constantly available. So my question to this person would be, is that naturally you? Or is that an act? Because then later, you know, they don't wanna quit, they wanna stop pretending. I think I'm just wondering also like, okay, but what are you pretending? Like, what specifically are you pretending about? And then ultimately, I think at the very beginning of this riff, I said something about I don't wanna be flippant. And what I was going to say until I distracted myself by talking about the rest of the stuff is that I almost think that they should just tell their team what's happening and then let them know that you're planning on taking a month off. I think that you should just do that thing and let people know like, Hey, i'm not burned out. I'm not even necessarily overwhelmed, I'm just really internally exhausted and tired of being the steady, capable, consistent person for everybody. And I, I mean, I would like be that honest probably. And of course I would say like, this is not about you all, like no one person, there's not anything that you're even doing wrong. This is just about me and my capacity and it's exceedingly tapped, like I'm beyond tapped. And then I would let them know, like what I'm planning on doing is taking a month off. And maybe, maybe this is time to also think about restructuring or reorganizing an accountability chart or if you don't do EOS and you have something like an org chart, think about who's that right hand person that can be the point person for your team. So people aren't always coming to you for the steadiness, the consistency, et cetera, but they're going to somebody else that you highly, highly trust. And then that way the team is still getting what they need, but they're not solely reliant on your role and you to do it. So yeah, I think I would probably just be honest. That's my tendency anyway. I'm just gonna let people know what's up like with me, like what's going on with me. Alright. I think that's it for scenario one. Let's keep going, shall we? Okay. This is, Ooh, totally different. I haven't even read this one, honestly. Scenario two. A consultant has layered offering upon offering over the years. A membership, a course, a mastermind, lead magnets, a podcast, templates and trainings. Nothing is wrong. Everything works, but every time they sit down to create something new, the spark is gone. They feel pressure instead of creativity. Heaviness instead of clarity. They wonder if they've built a business that requires a version of them they no longer are. They start to whisper the idea of letting things go, but immediately fear, losing momentum, relevance, or trust. Man, you know what just came up for me as I was reading that, um, it's the vacuum that exists after something is removed. That's the thing. There's something about if I remove this, I take it and just toss it to the side. Even if you're aware, like, I don't wanna fucking do this thing bink, and you flick it off to the side, then what? Like, what goes in that space? What's it gonna look like? How's it gonna live? What am I gonna do? How am I gonna spend my time? What am I gonna create? Like all of that, all of that is now space, and I don't think that that space is something that we're going to immediately know what fills it, if that makes sense. The way that I just said that was awkward, but I think my point remains the same and was clear. And what I will say is that that space piece, again, that's like a little bit of the nothingness. Like if you're taking something out, you're, you're leaving space. There's actually, oh my god, this I freaking, everybody loves David Attenborough. I mean, you have to, if you ever watch any nature documentaries. There is one on Netflix, I think it's Netflix and it's about plants. And I remember this one scene. It's so, so good. Oh my gosh. As a side note, you should watch it if you haven't, but there's this one scene and it's in a, jungle in a rainforest, and of course a rainforest has a really dense canopy. You're not gonna get a lot of sunlight coming through and hitting the floor. You know, it's just so thick up top. So a tree fell. This is what happens. A tree falls in the documentary and they set up a camera, and then they just recorded the next few whatever days, I guess, of what happened to the forest floor. And it was like a fucking fight. It was a fight. All of these plants are now competing for this tiny little sliver of sunlight that is coming through, and it is a battle. And some plants have really shallow roots, so they sprout up high quickly, and some plants have deeper roots so they grow and it's a little more sturdy, but they're slower to grow up top. And it's a matter of who, who wins this, who's gonna win? And how do they then work off of each other to like take up the sunlight and take over that space? That's the vacuum. Like that vacuum will get filled with what nobody knows. You know, they're recording this forest floor, seeing what comes to life, which was super incredible to watch. And that feels parallel to what happens when we remove something from ourselves, when we remove something that we offer. Where it's like we don't have any idea what is going to come of it. I don't like that feeling. That's probably part of the winter piece too, is like not just the nothingness, but also it's, it's empty space. There's something about this empty space, it's like, ugh, I don't know what's gonna happen. So I think. I'm thinking of like the scenario too, then this consultant and they start to whisper at the idea of letting things go, but they fear losing momentum or relevance or trust. And I think there's also this fear of like, okay, if that happens, what's gonna come up next? Like, what will I do next, if anything? And if I don't do anything, then what? So maybe it's really like the fear of losing momentum, but it feels a little bit distinct. Like something about it feels kind of distinct. I think also it'd be interesting to ask this person. If you were to create a version of consulting right now, like if you were to restart consulting right now, like snap your fingers and you're living in an alternate universe and you've built consulting in an entirely different way, what would you want it to look like? You know, what would your offerings be? Or how would you be spending your time or what would you be doing? And I think taking those answers and trying to do it in a really like uninhibited answer style, like don't try to figure it out, just gut response. Like just in 10 seconds or less, talk out loud that answer and then take that answer and cross-reference it with what currently is. And I think where the overlap exists is the stuff theoretically you could keep and where it doesn't exist is the stuff you would theoretically get rid of. And then also, also also it would be, I don't know exactly the right words, but I think the grappling or the thought process or sort of understanding of any sort of change is gonna mean you have less of something before it grows into more, and this makes me think about apple trees. You know, you always are pruning away healthy limbs on an apple tree, which makes me feel like I, I mean, I don't know what is wrong with me sometimes, but like physically makes me feel a little bit ill like, fuck it's, but it's healthy. Like we could let it grow, you know? It's just, ugh. It's like, oh my God, you're getting rid of something healthy. The reality is that if you don't, and this happened at our old house, we had a fucking apple tree. We didn't prune it. The whole limb just broke off entirely. A big limb just fucking fell and broke because we did not prune the apple tree when we should have. So now the whole tree, not only, I don't actually think the rest of the tree was impacted by this pruning or by this limb falling, but all of the nutrients that went to that limb in the first place could have gone to the entire rest of the tree. So theoretically, we would've gotten more fruit or better fruit, or more growth or something else rather than a broken limb at the end of the season. Ew. I still, I don't like pruning. So my thought is that pruning process. And I, again, I don't know if this is most people, I feel like it probably is most people, but you know, what the fuck do I know is uncomfortable? Because it means that we're getting rid of something that is producing fruit for us right now. Like, why would we get rid of something healthy or that seems healthy? And the reality is that we can either get rid of it now and then those nutrients go elsewhere, which means we get a dip in production. Like we're gonna get less, and I'm using, production is not quite the right word, but if I'm thinking of the apple tree, maybe we get less production overall because we've just gotten rid of a limb. But ultimately we're thinking about the overall health of this tree, of our tree of us, and what's gonna be best for us long term. So I think it, from a process perspective, just knowing and keeping in mind, pruning is healthy, it's healthy. That for me, makes me feel better, even if I don't like doing it while it's, you know, needs to happen. One more thought about this, this scenario two. Every time they sit down to create something new, the spark is gone. They feel pressure instead of creativity, heaviness instead of clarity. I think that immediately my thought is where are the moments where you feel any sort of spark, if at all? And are there any times or moments, even little pockets where you feel creative, where you feel clear, where you feel a sense of connectedness or groundedness or just real on point like, oh, that's it. You know, a sense of like visceral, like Yep, that's what I, that's the thing. I would just wanna capture what those things are. Some sort of identification of the things that feel lit up, like when you're doing them, the things that light you up when you're doing them, the things that bring you some joy, that bring the things that bring you some creativity or some insight and also layered on top of. The start of an understanding of the stuff that used to bring you joy or used to light you up or used to give you that creative spark might not be the same things as right now. And so trying to stay in tune with what did it used to be versus, well, how do I feel right now? Man, I think I'm officially fucking done, y'all. So I wanna close this out with two things. Number one, thank you for being here with me. I hardcore value time. I think I say this every time because it's just really fucking true, and so it means a lot to me that you spend some with me. So thank you for being here with me. Number two is, actually two. Part one is whatever season you're in, I really, really hope that you can see it clearly and that you feel comfortable being in it. Because as we all know, depending on the season, we may or may not feel good or not so good about entering into it. The second part to that is if you're listening and you're like, holy fucking shit, I need to share this with that person, please do. I would love to be able to interact with, and speak with more folks who are really sort of in the thick of leadership, just like the rest of us. So make sure you share with somebody that you love or that you think this will resonate with. All that said, I really am done this time. Okay. I'll see you on the next one. Thanks. Bye