Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of The Ambassadors of Death (7/7)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of The Ambassadors of Death (7/7) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:56
  Dun dun, dun dun you realize something.
• 1:06
  Hello, hello, hello, hello. You realize something.
• 1:10
  No, I don't. People listen to us talking
• 1:12
  about the story for two weeks. People demanded that the
• 1:17
  lavender. I mean, ahem, wasn't it Conrad?
• 1:24
  Who said I should do this episode first?
• 1:27
  I'm an at is Andy Park Apartments, and is his mouth on
• 1:31
  this one as well? Yeah.
• 1:34
  I think Ben Conrad was quite specific that you had me talk
• 1:37
  for. Yeah, I think so.
• 1:41
  But I think he cares what you're talking about.
• 1:42
  He coveted reading your shopping list or something.
• 1:47
  It's the accent Fraser. Honestly, I'll do a special
• 1:49
  shopping list or two pounds of spots.
• 1:55
  I like no one's guess which way of my voice right now.
• 1:58
  I should be Borden's. Mrs. Just next door this way.
• 2:08
  Okay, all right. Welcome back to a hamster with a
• 2:13
  blunt. Penknife the doctor who try to
• 2:17
  comment, we podcast that considers it.
• 2:21
  So its moral duty to talk about the ambassador's of death.
• 2:27
  I'm freezer and I'm joined by the host of hamster, which is
• 2:31
  The Marvelous incomparable incorrigible.
• 2:35
  Joe fault. See, how would you encourage a
• 2:37
  ball? What the hell does that mean?
• 2:41
  It means that you are incorrigible.
• 2:46
  I am a very slick, Hench man. Who is scientifically?
• 2:53
  Very Adept, I can murder anyone in a heartbeat.
• 2:57
  Stop Rockets going up in the air.
• 2:59
  Yeah. For for your henchmen needs,
• 3:03
  just going to go forward know the difference between your M3
• 3:06
  and standard variant. Just about.
• 3:09
  Yeah, I think you just like rub it out and write standard
• 3:13
  variant, you know, which which tube to put the the helium gas
• 3:16
  in it. Ask me what I'm going to answer
• 3:22
  that question. You feel bag unusual?
• 3:24
  I used, you know, since you first started doing these
• 3:26
  things, everyone's gone the way of the hamster.
• 3:31
  It's just you're incorrigible ability to see smut where no
• 3:35
  smut exist. It's true as you are.
• 3:38
  Yeah. When I'm talking to you, we are
• 3:40
  here to talk about episode 7. The climactic installment.
• 3:45
  Yes, of the ambassador's of death.
• 3:48
  We have some interrogation points from hamster.
• 3:54
  Contributors if, if you are willing to have a go, yes, let's
• 3:59
  go with those are marvelous question here from Jim Allen me,
• 4:03
  who asks given that? How many of us first of all, and
• 4:06
  Masters in black and white? Do you think it works better in
• 4:09
  black and white or color? I love the colorization but the
• 4:12
  black and white gives it a fantastic atmosphere.
• 4:16
  That's interesting because I did see this first in black and
• 4:19
  white on UK gold me to him when it was repeated on there in.
• 4:25
  I mean, I do but I do like the color, the color brings Brings
• 4:30
  more to it. But it is very Superior tone.
• 4:32
  Be just because of the way that it's, you know, been brought
• 4:36
  back. I don't think the color you
• 4:39
  know, ads as much as it might do and see if we only had like a
• 4:41
  black-and-white closer back sauce, that sort of thing.
• 4:46
  I hear you know that if you turn down the Colin Baker era to
• 4:49
  black and white it automatically becomes more Moody.
• 4:55
  Well what was the rumor that the happiness Patrol was scheduled
• 4:59
  to be filmed in black and white? I think it's a myth but it's an
• 5:02
  interesting idea though isn't it interesting a jar that it was
• 5:05
  supposed to be this very sort of film Noir on sort of a crazy
• 5:09
  angles in a black and white water.
• 5:10
  But I think I think but we'll see the best of the story in
• 5:15
  terms of color eyes. Shin is if and when it gets a
• 5:19
  good scrub up for blu-ray. I think, if you know, those
• 5:24
  Geniuses the Blu-ray Central can can really go to work with this,
• 5:30
  like the have done with like season 8 and really, you know,
• 5:35
  smooth out the rough edges and whatnot.
• 5:40
  When I'm a contributor there. Yeah this is Willow.
• 5:44
  Willow. Finally I think people think so.
• 5:48
  I think Lily disagrees their think Lily prefers the black and
• 5:50
  white because of you I all the ones I've been re colorized.
• 5:55
  I tend to prefer the black and white there.
• 5:57
  It's certainly mind of evil. I think looks a lot sharper and
• 6:03
  the picture quality is a lot better in black and white.
• 6:06
  But this one, I don't know. Yeah I think again going back to
• 6:11
  in an alternate a lot about the vision of the dinosaurs in this
• 6:14
  commentary that episode 1 where the colorization isn't quite as
• 6:19
  good as the other ones really the ads atmosphere that do you
• 6:22
  know, that that's sort of it sort of like a burnt orange
• 6:28
  effect, isn't it around sort of the scenes in London, which
• 6:32
  really adds a lot of depth to that whole sense of imbalance.
• 6:36
  Didn't city which I really like. There's just a certain
• 6:41
  grittiness about black and white, I really like, yeah,
• 6:44
  yeah. There's a kind of comes with an
• 6:46
  inbuilt atmosphere as I own, you know, I suppose the most
• 6:49
  important question about this episode is, does it end the
• 6:53
  story satisfactorily? It's a lot, you know, not a
• 6:57
  slob. It's a long story, and a lots
• 7:00
  happened and it's very complicated.
• 7:02
  It is. And there is there's a quite
• 7:05
  unusual ending. Which I think I'll leave until
• 7:08
  the end to discuss. I think this is where you get
• 7:12
  the classic neuters divided because I think a new series fan
• 7:16
  a primarily would say this is anticlimactic, whereas I think a
• 7:20
  classic series had would say, actually this is very different
• 7:23
  and very forceful. Okay, let's get to the end, the
• 7:27
  end of the end, okay, have a good, a good chat about the end
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  of the end because there is, there is meat on those bones, so
• 7:34
  it's definitely a my bones. Let's go.
• 7:36
  Cherise, I'm talking about fat, right?
• 7:44
  Do you want a compass in five? Four, three, two, you'll one.
• 7:53
  Let's go, quick question for your spirit of the button.
• 7:57
  I'm ready. Where do you read this story?
• 8:03
  It was this is Evan. Nope, the story ambassadors of
• 8:06
  that. How where do you read it in all
• 8:07
  of Doctor Who when I did it for my blog?
• 8:12
  Yeah, I thought to myself heart, I don't know what I will say
• 8:16
  about this thing and I ended up writing, I think it's three and
• 8:18
  a half thousand words and I gave it an 8 out of 10.
• 8:23
  I said it's a little bit muddy. It's a little bit long and a
• 8:28
  little bit padded, but everything that's here is It's
• 8:33
  very well done and I wouldn't disagree with that, you know.
• 8:39
  So I'll say is well above average but not like a standout
• 8:44
  classic. Yeah.
• 8:46
  Where would you eat it within the stories of season 7?
• 8:52
  Probably s. Now, I think I think it would be
• 8:56
  are literally take season seven in reverse order, Inferno
• 9:00
  ambassador's, silurians All European here hurt.
• 9:04
  I would. Yeah, I would interesting.
• 9:07
  Where would you write season seven in terms of the part where
• 9:11
  you were? Such an anomaly in a unique
• 9:18
  bubble, all of its own. No, I'd say seven is probably,
• 9:22
  it's probably the most effective season.
• 9:25
  It's the most successful season, but is no way my favorite
• 9:28
  season. And where would you read the put
• 9:32
  you right in all of Doctor, Who I think the Pertwee era is my
• 9:36
  go-to comfort Doctor Who, but I also think there's a lot more to
• 9:40
  it than just Comfort who I love the Jon Pertwee era.
• 9:45
  Excellent. I've been the video.
• 9:48
  I'll thank you very much. McGary was sort of, I don't
• 9:51
  know. I think, I think with the job
• 9:53
  poeira it. If I'm gonna go to my shelf at
• 9:56
  times Outta ten, I'll pull out of her way, I think.
• 10:00
  Yeah, it's really funny because I really at this moment in time
• 10:03
  and all grown up over discussed, you know, Pertwee was you know a
• 10:07
  big influence on my love of Doctor Who and you know the
• 10:11
  stories lot of the first stories I watched before we want some
• 10:15
  butter. Squeaking a time and we struggle
• 10:19
  with what these doctorate times. Now at this moment in time, but
• 10:22
  again, you know, coming back in like you see a pic and stories
• 10:26
  off the shelf. These stories are so good in
• 10:28
  this era, a lot of them are so good.
• 10:30
  Even the ones that aren't as good, make the time monster that
• 10:33
  will discuss of still got a lot of Merit and a lot of things to
• 10:36
  to talk about. Haven't I think this is probably
• 10:39
  the most reliable era of Doctor Who and I can see why during the
• 10:44
  Jean Pertwee era it. At that audience.
• 10:46
  Yeah, you know there was a Todd million people watching it.
• 10:50
  Took a little dip at the end of seven.
• 10:51
  Yeah, calm. I think invasion of the
• 10:54
  dinosaurs 10 episodes got 11 million, like, it was growing
• 10:57
  and growing, like, you could rely to turn on the TV and be
• 11:00
  entertained and several and excited.
• 11:03
  I think the the real best thing about the series is why we left
• 11:10
  in 76 who are absolutely sympatico in the different Yeah,
• 11:16
  and I think what they almost want different things from the
• 11:18
  show, but they've got such a Clear Vision of what they want
• 11:22
  to do and they work so well together and which you know, we
• 11:26
  possibly haven't heard. Throughout the year, the
• 11:30
  previous sort of seven years or whatever.
• 11:31
  That this point, a team that I saw, you know, engage with each
• 11:35
  other. And so connected with seat again
• 11:37
  with with Hinchcliffe and homes and we'll see, you know, cream
• 11:40
  Williams. It's not until like GMT and see
• 11:42
  what that kind of discipline. Well interestingly the other
• 11:46
  story I am recording later on today is the twin dilemma and I
• 11:50
  think that is the perfect example of when your script
• 11:55
  editor in your producer are not in sympatico.
• 11:58
  Yeah. What goes wrong, you know.
• 12:02
  Okay, I've got a question for you.
• 12:03
  Hmm, in the first couple of episodes where you had a lady in
• 12:07
  space control who was helping Ralph Cornish, you know, talk
• 12:13
  down and then we've got another female current space control.
• 12:19
  Now who's helped get the doctor in this case and getting down
• 12:21
  here till different current as well.
• 12:23
  And I think we're supposed to not have know is it's a
• 12:27
  different woman. What was wrong with the first
• 12:29
  one that the thought of when he had to replace that with tr?
• 12:32
  The someone else, Michael folks from that.
• 12:34
  Yeah, I think he does have a reason as to why the woman fish
• 12:37
  got another job. As when I make this fabulous
• 12:39
  joke that perhaps you could have popped along at the end, God
• 12:42
  what's been happening in the last couple of weeks, anything
• 12:44
  been going on? I should know about.
• 12:47
  We have these aliens, come visit, you know?
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  No world catastrophe. So I've got a question for you
• 12:52
  and it's about the ambassador's, right, because they've been
• 12:57
  going about the place killing people.
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  All right. Well, I come down, they've got
• 13:01
  unusual language. And there's communication errors
• 13:03
  and things like this, but what the fuck?
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  Do they think they're about? What do they think they're
• 13:06
  doing? Do they think they're going
• 13:07
  around saying hello to people? No, no.
• 13:08
  Do you think that the north exactly what's happening because
• 13:11
  the doctor does build a machine where they can talk to them at
• 13:14
  the end and then we'll find well and that they are going and kind
• 13:17
  of people. But they are being held over
• 13:18
  bubble by Regan because he has got the radiation that they need
• 13:21
  to survive. So is his device.
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  Also do this, the floppy wrist Ambassador on the venetian blind
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  screen, he never he You've been using our ambassadors.
• 13:34
  Okay? But so, but they are benevolent
• 13:37
  species. Yeah, they br have come used to,
• 13:39
  you know, say hello, the being these three, three buildings are
• 13:42
  essentially just that Ambassador as they have come to make
• 13:45
  contact with the Earth and set up, good relations, and whatnot,
• 13:48
  but because they've been hijacked by current and to use
• 13:51
  for his xenophobe, it means, and because he's given the Regan who
• 13:54
  wants to use them for everything else, they are now being forced
• 13:58
  into doing. So, there's the real villain
• 14:00
  here is, is not The aliens. It's the it's the humans.
• 14:04
  It's a very sort of timidly. It's there's an a phobia.
• 14:07
  Is it's the racism? Yeah.
• 14:09
  But this is the second time this season then where, you know, a
• 14:13
  relationship with another species was entirely possible.
• 14:17
  Yeah. So what occurs at the end of
• 14:19
  this sin because We're going to get the ambassador's back into
• 14:23
  space, so they just pop off and say, whoa, Gerard, exactly?
• 14:26
  I mean nothing to do with you, right?
• 14:27
  You Troublesome lot on Earth, I don't imagine so, I mean, it's
• 14:32
  yeah, we sent three ambassadors. You didn't give them any
• 14:35
  Ferrero. Rocher whatsoever, you just use
• 14:37
  them as up people. So toodle-oo planet Earth.
• 14:40
  Leave. Well alone mostly harmless off
• 14:42
  you go. I'll wait.
• 14:44
  I really love this. I really love how Carrington is
• 14:48
  going to use the ambassador's to say Scare everybody via the
• 14:52
  media. Yeah.
• 14:54
  Because that's, that's very, very modern day as well.
• 14:58
  Yeah. Yeah, I guess you're not going
• 15:03
  to remove the helmet. You can't even touch them
• 15:05
  without hardly a single finger on them, without beans up to
• 15:08
  death. Now, we're going to take the
• 15:09
  helmet off, it doesn't doesn't count and hold a gallon like a
• 15:12
  wishes Report with say no you will you will report this?
• 15:16
  I'm not entirely sure. Yeah, I think he does.
• 15:19
  I think I think he is desperate for everybody to see what he
• 15:24
  sees. Yeah it which is this.
• 15:26
  Is it This is it and we'll get the ambassador's do in a bit
• 15:31
  more. Zapping zapping yet.
• 15:36
  Those clouded space helmets are soaked, affect her, bosom
• 15:42
  Margaret who, who who says in the making of that, you know, it
• 15:48
  was a unintentional design flaw that the helmets that the actors
• 15:53
  were wearing steamed up while they were wearing them but that
• 15:56
  just added to the whole brilliant like say when you can
• 15:59
  actually see the faces, when you can see the just got a face with
• 16:02
  black cloth over, it's not nearly as effective. - is this
• 16:05
  sort of, like, radiation blistered.
• 16:10
  What what's great about this episode?
• 16:13
  Now is, we're kind of want to count down to this broadcast?
• 16:17
  Yes, which has got to be stopped and suddenly, this wonderful
• 16:21
  sequence in a minute where it's done, handheld camera where the
• 16:24
  Brigadier is marched out of the base and he effectively it, it
• 16:29
  takes on all the cars doesn't. He's amazing.
• 16:33
  But it's like, you know, how we need to stop Carrington.
• 16:35
  We need to stop this happening because this is going to spread
• 16:38
  like fear. Yeah.
• 16:40
  And they say, I'm going to end well for the ambassador's.
• 16:42
  It's not going to end well for anyone, but we've got we try to
• 16:45
  save the monsters when does Doctor Who do that, it's so new
• 16:50
  series and in a lot of ways, isn't it in?
• 16:54
  You've got current and just becoming more and more unhinged,
• 16:57
  you know, Cornish has already called him out as being murdered
• 17:01
  in, would know, see in a really Start to unravel and he's going
• 17:03
  to stop pulling guns on people. It's going to start arresting
• 17:05
  the Brigadier. You know, we already know now
• 17:08
  that he is you know the chief you know he's the organ grinder
• 17:14
  as it were to Regan's monkey. So well that does actually leave
• 17:18
  me to another question that somebody asked.
• 17:21
  Yes, and that is from The Marvelous been Jolly.
• 17:25
  He asked given the the Despicable things that he does
• 17:29
  in this story. Do you think?
• 17:32
  Reagan deserved to live to fight another day.
• 17:36
  Absolutely. Yes.
• 17:37
  Because, you know, this is Doctor Who it's not bleep 7 or
• 17:41
  but this equalness and enough rear has no idea what has this
• 17:45
  man likes. Corby gets killed, doesn't he
• 17:47
  starts gets killed? Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:49
  But you know of those good things is that You know how it
• 17:55
  should be that. Yeah, you were wrong answer.
• 17:57
  You don't, and you don't make it to the end credits of the final
• 18:00
  episode, I don't think so. I like the fact that, you know,
• 18:04
  current and get away with it. Doesn't get away, but he is Left
• 18:07
  Alive. I like that.
• 18:10
  You know, Regan is captured and you know you are going to get
• 18:12
  Justice somewhere else. You know, you think it's another
• 18:15
  element of naturalism for this season actually site.
• 18:18
  You know what? Like not everybody gets their
• 18:20
  just not, not all bad people. Die sometime.
• 18:25
  She and I are bad people, bad people and they get away with it
• 18:27
  against your sometimes, the good people live.
• 18:30
  Some people you know bad people live and good people died in a
• 18:33
  story. You know that's very well.
• 18:36
  Know, Ser la la. Yeah, I'm more than happy with
• 18:38
  that. I think, you know, one of the
• 18:40
  things I dislike about it is always especially the, you know,
• 18:43
  Mighty works here with time is that everyone dies at the actual
• 18:48
  murder or? Yeah, buddy.
• 18:50
  That's how he ends up law, isn't it?
• 18:52
  As I woke up not to give anyone a satisfying ending.
• 18:54
  I was brutally dispatch them all.
• 18:57
  We'll just let the Tardis crew walk away or maybes, one or two
• 19:01
  and then you can't just turn around and go.
• 19:02
  Well, there should have been another way.
• 19:05
  Oh yeah. There should have been, we
• 19:06
  should have fucking written it. Exactly.
• 19:11
  I think you can use that end in a few times.
• 19:14
  We know there was just a issue like using that ended.
• 19:16
  I just think they did it to Get It Best in silurians.
• 19:19
  Yeah, let's let's make it with other aliens as well, rather
• 19:23
  than just Just the Siberians, you know every side you install
• 19:28
  we now is sort of like oh well this is your plan as well.
• 19:30
  We should share and or I'm really so that we've got to kill
• 19:32
  you. Is that why can't I have that
• 19:34
  with Adam of the zygons in Terror of the zygons?
• 19:37
  Why can't I have that with the turbolift doors in the
• 19:40
  visitation? Why does it always weigh just?
• 19:43
  So your real reasons that we have this this actually nothing
• 19:45
  is similar to Russell. T Davies did very well in series
• 19:50
  one with with Chris Eccleston where we have the unquiet.
• 19:52
  Dead. Where was more than happy to let
• 19:54
  the girls? Come through and how I love
• 19:56
  that. I'll take that.
• 19:57
  I like the open and I really like your other doggy bags in
• 20:00
  the very alien way, you know, or it was a morality that's
• 20:03
  different, it's not exactly. You know.
• 20:05
  That's, that's one of the things that works very well that Mitten
• 20:07
  with and man's back. We'll miss stem.
• 20:09
  Jeffrey beavers are no. I was about to say Caroline job.
• 20:12
  Husband husband teacher Master. Yes, it is looking very handsome
• 20:16
  on my side. Look at that shot.
• 20:18
  A current and just stood at the top there, can I just say
• 20:21
  phrase? I don't know if you've listened
• 20:22
  to the big finish box at masterful, right?
• 20:25
  But Gary beavers gets a sub point.
• 20:27
  Now, where his crispy Master it gets a love story and he's
• 20:32
  absolutely amazing in it. It's some of the best most I've
• 20:36
  ever heard. He's very, very good.
• 20:38
  Yes, yeah, rather ugly, you've got Geoffrey beavers in this,
• 20:43
  you got pulled Darrow, playing a soldier in silurians.
• 20:47
  Yeah, pre Tech a stroke Avon other this question for you,
• 20:53
  then obviously, you know, Got my Coalition here, who goes on to
• 20:56
  play, various other parts, as well as Davos.
• 20:59
  We've got several shops who has various possible, got who, you
• 21:03
  know, This is a theme throughout the 60s and the 70s where you
• 21:08
  have the same. Number of Cornish was in the
• 21:10
  dominators, Clarkson on it and the the classic series wasn't
• 21:14
  afraid to use actors again and again and again and see, you
• 21:17
  know yeah just because you were in one story.
• 21:20
  Doesn't mean you can't be in there.
• 21:21
  Get asked me why the new series doesn't do the same thing?
• 21:23
  Yeah. Oh my God.
• 21:26
  Am I David Icke table? Yeah.
• 21:28
  Possibly is the new series more scrutinized.
• 21:32
  I think I think perhaps the show as a whole More accessible now
• 21:36
  and it's scrutinized in a lot more detail.
• 21:38
  I know there have been a couple. I'm there in the new series, The
• 21:41
  Hoff I mean, obviously, Karen Gillan was in fires of Pompeii
• 21:43
  of your regiment yet was you know, kabaddi, hmm.
• 21:49
  You know, I mean and the show had then has to do with you now
• 21:53
  double Loops to say because he has escaped and fantastic to
• 21:56
  see. Why is this is just a lot of
• 21:58
  bloody Sweeney this. Look at this.
• 22:00
  Yeah, dark and underground things.
• 22:02
  He's getting away to car. They're blasting away at him.
• 22:05
  All you need is like that. Whack, ow!
• 22:07
  Ow, music playing. And when you've got dirty
• 22:10
  Simpson doing his famous work here, so you could be Jason King
• 22:13
  or something like that, you know, starring Nicolas Courtney.
• 22:16
  I mean this is good because the brigadier's drill vote just as
• 22:19
  they got a phone call to say, don't let the Brigadeiro oats,
• 22:23
  we just unit that shit security. It's the general Army as well,
• 22:28
  nor to keep anyone in outer space.
• 22:31
  That's terrorist attacks. Keeping it a secret side.
• 22:33
  It's got make sense. Come on.
• 22:36
  How to get out how to get him. Hi, I'm sorry.
• 22:40
  I'm dizzy to hit you with a random question that has just
• 22:43
  emerged and that is which several shafts are you today?
• 22:47
  Oh, I would say, aye. So we'll shop strum as Planet
• 22:54
  spiders. I think I'm always the
• 22:57
  archimandrite if I'm honest campus Christmas.
• 23:01
  That's oh my God. Here we go.
• 23:03
  Is the music? This sequence is amazing
• 23:17
  although I think is this one moment where you really see the
• 23:21
  Brigadier uncomfortable but firing a come he's like he's
• 23:24
  like wincing with every fire. Every time every time you see
• 23:27
  Nick hardly polygon he thinks and he flinches and it's
• 23:31
  actually fantastic. But again I just love it because
• 23:34
  it's the Brigadier you know getting into the thick of
• 23:37
  things. It's To take me away from home
• 23:39
  when units and yet has brought in and season, it is that it
• 23:42
  doesn't get to actually prove. His mettle is more than again,
• 23:48
  more than goes to show that he could very well have been caught
• 23:50
  but at one point in his career I am I remember in the behind the
• 23:54
  sofa from season 8, Janet Fielding is watching that.
• 23:57
  And obviously the, you know, there's a lot of violence, a lot
• 24:00
  of action and a lot of death as well like MonaVie was bloody
• 24:03
  massacre. And she says, I know, I really
• 24:07
  object to all the violence in this.
• 24:09
  And the doctor having like an army at his command.
• 24:14
  So, to speak. Is that a problem?
• 24:19
  No no I think I think it works well.
• 24:22
  You know having unit in here as you know the doctors tool as it
• 24:28
  were you know I mean it's like the doctor uses you know, he if
• 24:32
  it was just you know the doctor in a some sort of like nice
• 24:36
  little cottage down and Cornwall or something you know and having
• 24:39
  to see if the world at the same name I would be a bit of a
• 24:42
  stretch but I have the doctor in the thick of the action.
• 24:44
  See well the doctor is using unit to try and fix these TARDIS
• 24:48
  You know using the doctor to save the world it's a bit of a
• 24:52
  symbiotic relationship. I think that's absolutely fine.
• 24:55
  And more importantly he objects. Yeah the violence half the time.
• 24:59
  All those as the as the series goes on I think he started
• 25:03
  utilizing it as well. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:07
  Oh, look at this. I'm offering you an equal share
• 25:09
  doctor, come on, break, element, breaking ball, literally sell
• 25:15
  out. Anybody would eat this story?
• 25:19
  Back, hence just saw this. I'll tell you what break.
• 25:23
  The this is a really good last episode because I really ate
• 25:26
  feels like it's like time is running out.
• 25:29
  We have got we have got to stop him.
• 25:31
  Yeah and I feel like that throughout some last episodes
• 25:34
  you go look ahead and screw up they a bit saggy you know.
• 25:38
  Yeah I think some momentum mass is probably a good example where
• 25:42
  the plot kind of runs out a little bit.
• 25:44
  So they have to hand a fear. I love, I love the last episode
• 25:48
  of It's the most you'll get is wrong.
• 25:50
  I love the whole termination feel a bit but it is eyes me a
• 25:52
  sickly Excellence. Yeah, I love, I love all across
• 25:56
  to me as so, isn't this great now that they managed to know.
• 26:00
  So like all of what we've seen is vital in communicating with
• 26:07
  the ambassador's because now they need them in order to bring
• 26:10
  parents and down. Yep.
• 26:13
  And they don't they're obviously, they don't use them
• 26:14
  to kill but they use them as a way in, don't they?
• 26:17
  Because no one's going to get in.
• 26:18
  Our way, this is the time short it's going back to work soon was
• 26:24
  like how this episode of suddenly like countdown Centric.
• 26:27
  It's what time to Dixon. My whole do so, well is just
• 26:31
  kind of pad pad pad, right? Let's get done.
• 26:34
  Yeah, do the end, but it's not a sort of deus ending.
• 26:37
  It feels very like to see of worked up to.
• 26:40
  This were built the machine with Look at that shot man's
• 26:45
  beautiful. This is there that could come
• 26:48
  from the steel that shot of the separately.
• 26:52
  Look at that shot of that hat. It's just stunning and sort of
• 26:56
  distracting myself. There was a scene.
• 26:59
  Yeah, but you know what? I don't I just don't think
• 27:01
  there's any part of this visually.
• 27:02
  You can say that about many Doctor Who stories that this is
• 27:05
  no part of this that isn't firing is that?
• 27:07
  No there's absolutely not that's just even the duff little things
• 27:10
  like the doctor in the Space Capsule.
• 27:12
  You know it shot from a bow. And he spins around before he
• 27:14
  gets out and, you know, shots a general count and at the top of
• 27:17
  the stairs. And the fact that, you know, the
• 27:20
  way that he shoots Ronald Allen just absolutely stock still in
• 27:26
  his chair. When he's, you know, talking to
• 27:28
  people over the radio that special effect there when I just
• 27:31
  touch the door and it blows out a few seconds later.
• 27:35
  Terrific. Bessie without a filter, like
• 27:40
  the entrance to the base and it just feels like they're
• 27:42
  certainly not that we got action sequence.
• 27:45
  Like if it's like the budget is massive for this, but it's one
• 27:49
  of the benefits of having these extra episodes.
• 27:51
  Me, is that you can advertise the cost, you can make
• 27:53
  everything look really fantastic.
• 27:54
  Yeah, like logistically, it was a smart creative move.
• 27:58
  Yeah. And it's even the set.
• 28:00
  I mean the Your companies that said that, obviously the roof
• 28:06
  from lame Groove D here to BBC Center and you can tell that
• 28:11
  it's something a studio, a studio, this the close-ups as
• 28:15
  we, and then we go into the news broadcast again, very new
• 28:19
  series. Yep.
• 28:20
  Using the news, I mean, you would not think that was the
• 28:24
  same one that placed our trust. Would you not?
• 28:28
  I but then II, I think Michael Wisher commits to everyone.
• 28:32
  He has some very thankless role in plan of evil are watching
• 28:35
  today and he's still great in that.
• 28:39
  Look, that's what this is. So tense.
• 28:40
  Now that we are just watching this like like even though he's
• 28:44
  defeated here. I don't think John have an Aries
• 28:47
  character is not apologetic. No no he's like I did it for a
• 28:52
  reason. Yeah I was trying to make them
• 28:54
  see it's that whole sort of like model Judy.
• 28:58
  I had a mola gp2 to this end. And you know this this is the
• 29:05
  sort of ending the I think Inferno lacks, this all feels
• 29:07
  like it. Okay, here's what I always feel
• 29:09
  like in front of kind of ends brilliantly on episode 6 and in
• 29:13
  episode 7, is just like a bit, a bit of a young Fest.
• 29:16
  You know, this, look at this, the current and is just so
• 29:18
  defeated and so deflated, be surrounded by units or just now,
• 29:22
  let him out people in that same. But look at this, the respect
• 29:26
  that the treating them with, you know, he's allowed to handle his
• 29:28
  pistol. Put his hat back on his hat, on
• 29:31
  a stick. Stan's to Stan's attention.
• 29:34
  Yep. And then obviously it stops by
• 29:40
  the doctor. The one person he thinks is
• 29:42
  going to understand why he's doing what he's done.
• 29:44
  I had to do what I did, it was my moral duty.
• 29:47
  You do understand that? Don't you?
• 29:48
  Let me just say, yes, yes, Jen. But you know what?
• 29:51
  The Pertwee of later seasons is very black and white.
• 29:55
  Sometimes just like, you know, you're going with the controller
• 29:58
  in there. The Daleks who really runs this
• 30:00
  know, you're a quisling sir. There's none of that here is
• 30:03
  there. Well, when Pertwee says, when
• 30:06
  the dock When he says, I understand those he is.
• 30:11
  He sort of agreeing with Carrington because that's that's
• 30:16
  a way that people read something, essentially, what
• 30:19
  he's made, no secret of what he thinks of humanity in all
• 30:22
  season. It is dripping with subtext.
• 30:26
  The way that Pertwee delivers that mine.
• 30:28
  He's so gentle. Yes.
• 30:30
  I understand. He understands exactly that.
• 30:33
  Covington is lost the plot. That's what you see in.
• 30:36
  He's not seeing In, I understand and I agree with you.
• 30:38
  You see? And I understand that you are
• 30:43
  insane and let's go Eliza fact. When I hear someone like
• 30:47
  terroristic say that job Toby wasn't much of an actor but boy
• 30:49
  you had presents. No, he was a terrific actor, he
• 30:53
  is Lord of that, one lane with so much meaning that other
• 30:56
  people and you know, that's if that's where you want to read.
• 30:58
  If that the doctor is, you know, a green with counting whatever,
• 31:02
  then that's the easiest for me. He's just like he's shaking it.
• 31:07
  Right. I'm off.
• 31:07
  I'm Gonna Leave You two guys. But you know what?
• 31:10
  You can absolutely feel terroristic.
• 31:11
  Says hand in this scene because look at that glass shop.
• 31:16
  That is terrific. That's brilliant.
• 31:19
  I'm sorry, sorry. You can filter it takes because
• 31:21
  he goes right, you guys. Right?
• 31:23
  What we need to do is we need to contact the ambassador's, let
• 31:26
  them know that their people are down.
• 31:27
  Here it goes, my free astronauts.
• 31:29
  Yep, we need to get those back as well as like a tick list of
• 31:31
  things that still need to be done.
• 31:33
  And that's terrorist acts. He won't leave like any of those
• 31:36
  boxes unchecked. Yep.
• 31:37
  Is it? Well, are you not going to stop
• 31:39
  until the so you've got this? Sure, dr.
• 31:42
  Liz sure it would hope you'll do that.
• 31:44
  You don't need to me. Toodle-oo and you know, a lot of
• 31:47
  people say that that is a very sudden ending your dogs, only
• 31:54
  think so. Yeah.
• 31:58
  I'm down with it, but don't do, and but what's left, what's left
• 32:05
  of that point? What do we need?
• 32:07
  After this point, where your countenance defeated, the doctor
• 32:10
  has, you know, acknowledge that? You know, it's like I understand
• 32:16
  why you did what you did. I don't agree with it but I
• 32:19
  understand I don't agree with you.
• 32:22
  You reason whatsoever. I understand why you've done it
• 32:24
  though. Even though why you've done it
• 32:25
  as wrong? I am being.
• 32:26
  It's the polar opposite of what we talked about with tryst and
• 32:31
  Tom Baker to seeing go away, you know, that condemnation?
• 32:35
  It's actually yes, I understand you you are long but I
• 32:41
  understand that you were wrong and I it's just lovely.
• 32:44
  It is rare to have a villain with that much Nuance as well.
• 32:47
  I think dr. A very, very rarely.
• 32:50
  Yes. Ink to give its villain of the
• 32:54
  piece and he is, that's that kind of Thor.
• 32:59
  But you said that, don't always get that new ones with the
• 33:01
  doctor as well. We get a very black and white
• 33:03
  reaction to Good and Evil from from the doctors while still
• 33:06
  have that sort of tacit sort of like it's very condescending.
• 33:10
  It's very there there, there there, you know, so we'll do all
• 33:13
  that much, you know, the story's wrapped up, you know, it says
• 33:16
  right, it's done. Send them back into space, get
• 33:18
  your astronauts back. You know, we don't What other
• 33:21
  seam do we need after that? It with then goes into the sort
• 33:24
  of you have been watching. Yeah.
• 33:27
  Territory, which really really great sir million in season 8 of
• 33:33
  the galactic yo-yo. It's a funny line but it's it's
• 33:36
  that about your funny line and it's a bit late half.
• 33:38
  Well, we don't need that here were working just wrap up in the
• 33:41
  doctor can walk out and, you know, he's going to go back to
• 33:43
  fixing up the Tardis and this show, I'll clean up his mess and
• 33:47
  tidy, everything away, and come back with them.
• 33:49
  Joy this format, Is a can do a for for Lending and it can do
• 33:54
  agonizing comedy ending, okay? To going back to the question we
• 33:58
  were asked about when would that be a nice ending for this?
• 34:00
  I think if lizard said, well, actually doctor I'm not coming
• 34:03
  back to unit with you. I'm going to see it to be sent
• 34:04
  and do all this, that the other it would be a very sort of Lila.
• 34:07
  And it would be very like, actually why it's better than
• 34:11
  nothing though. It is better than nothing.
• 34:13
  Another the fact that she doesn't get a proper, send-off
• 34:15
  is one of the greatest tragedies of classic Doctor Who Razor.
• 34:21
  I've got a question for you and then we need to give our reasons
• 34:25
  as to why we were given plenty already.
• 34:26
  But let's summarize it. Well my question is this because
• 34:29
  I'll tell you this is a story that you admire a lot.
• 34:33
  I think it's one of your favorites.
• 34:35
  So I don't want the is part of season seven.
• 34:39
  Also, why is this story? Very, very infrequently spoken
• 34:46
  about like reverently. Like we have today.
• 34:50
  It's just that it doesn't get talked about enough, for
• 34:53
  whatever reason. I think I think spearhead gets
• 34:57
  talked about a lot because it is Jon pertwee's, first story and
• 35:00
  it's magnificent. Obviously, the silurians gets
• 35:02
  talked about a lot because we don't have the sea devils and
• 35:05
  then we'll have no worries of the deep after that.
• 35:09
  And then we have the what I called Earth.
• 35:16
  Madame vastra stuff in the new series.
• 35:18
  So we talked a lot about this aliens.
• 35:20
  We talked a lot about Inferno because it is very totally
• 35:23
  unique episode with all that was until we do parallel worlds with
• 35:29
  the age of the Cybermen. And it doesn't have a hook, does
• 35:33
  it? I think that's the big problem
• 35:35
  is all Tom's. They were here all along,
• 35:38
  parallel universe their big hooks, whereas like, we've been
• 35:41
  in space before and I we've made contact Our spaceship before
• 35:46
  we've done action with unit before.
• 35:49
  So this is kind of doing stuff. We've we've done before, but
• 35:52
  it's doing it. Extremely bloody well, it was,
• 35:54
  but it does have a hook as well, because we have the ambassadors.
• 35:57
  And if you look back with again, like and promotional material
• 36:00
  around that time, you know, if it, can we go back to sort of
• 36:03
  like the 10th anniversary, this lots of shots of, you know,
• 36:06
  perfectly fate and sea devils and Ambassador as the Ambassador
• 36:08
  was, you know, keep popping up. I think obviously they've not
• 36:12
  been brought back in unlike, And the solutions or the autons, the
• 36:17
  or the master who comes along and series season 8 and then,
• 36:21
  you know, we get a lot of that. Is it, is it?
• 36:24
  Because, you know, it wasn't around in its current form for
• 36:27
  quite a while that it was just like black and white and no one
• 36:29
  had access to it enough to talk about it.
• 36:33
  Is it just to receive fan wisdom?
• 36:35
  I haven't checked what the Third Doctor handbook or and you know
• 36:40
  those Those only guides that we had at that time of said about
• 36:45
  this, you know, is it? I was so Iris into.
• 36:47
  Remember, they both saw got like five hours head.
• 36:49
  Yeah. So it's full of middle of the
• 36:51
  road. Yeah.
• 36:53
  And well then let's turn the tables.
• 36:54
  Let Simon, we've already done that for three and a half hours,
• 36:57
  but let's condense it all down into we do.
• 37:02
  Seven reasons, how many should we do?
• 37:03
  Should do seven reasons we've talked about seven episodes so,
• 37:06
  well, you go first and then you get five.
• 37:09
  Go on rate. I'm going to see.
• 37:13
  For one of my reasons is going to be the relationship between
• 37:18
  the doctor and the Brigadier Alistair Gordon
• 37:20
  lethbridge-stewart, which is just absolutely phenomenal.
• 37:24
  In this, it's the sort of thing. I wish we'd seen a lot more of
• 37:27
  just that whole Holmes and Watson thing that you've talked
• 37:30
  about and the mutual respect between the two and the
• 37:33
  affection is just absolutely wonderful.
• 37:36
  That is my first pick my. So my first pick is Is going to
• 37:42
  be the fact that it gives leash or a chance to go off our own
• 37:48
  and drive her own subplot, and have some action and those
• 37:52
  scenes of Lennox. And I just use her in a very
• 37:55
  sophisticated way. I think it Spotlight is it?
• 37:59
  I think she gives her best performers in Inferno because
• 38:01
  she gets to do. Yeah, it's really interesting
• 38:03
  things. But as Lee Shore in our
• 38:06
  universe, I think this is probably her best story.
• 38:10
  Yeah, next thing and I'm going to pick is the direction from
• 38:16
  little bit kitson because you do not take it.
• 38:20
  You're not a shot. Wasted comes up with so many
• 38:23
  interesting ways of you know directing you know two shots
• 38:29
  that could just be very static and very uninteresting or me as
• 38:33
  a lot more dynamic in a lot more exciting.
• 38:38
  Just Cuz he is putting a lot more effort into it.
• 38:41
  If you know, without make a furnace in this, this could
• 38:45
  well, again, Fallen very flat. Well, I'm gonna say and now it's
• 38:49
  your turn to say, God damn it. The score by Doug Lee with their
• 38:52
  symptoms, which is, which is one of his best.
• 38:56
  I think. No, it's not you don't think
• 38:59
  it's one of his best. Nothing.
• 39:01
  Good is his best. See you there?
• 39:04
  Nope, here is Miles. You'll see this is that this is
• 39:08
  his best. If you get three or essentially
• 39:12
  as well as sort of the incident thing, you have those three
• 39:14
  killer themes, you have sort of the ambassador's theme of
• 39:22
  creepy. I mean that that Seaver is
• 39:24
  called up the stairs to get get Lennox, just that Lumber and
• 39:28
  again slow-moving Unstoppable, you know, them using again.
• 39:32
  If different of everything they need.
• 39:34
  Yes, fantastic. Then you have the Deep doo-doo
• 39:38
  dee-dee-dee-dee done. Done.
• 39:46
  Done. Okay.
• 39:54
  Fine. Study.
• 39:55
  Simpsons. Best score against some pretty
• 39:59
  hot competition. This is a competition but you
• 40:01
  know, if this again this too Stands out for me because it is
• 40:04
  it's not just one brilliant, but music there is at least three
• 40:08
  and then easily get these little even these little harmless theme
• 40:11
  when when they're doing their 2001, it's right.
• 40:19
  What's your third one? All right, then I'm going to
• 40:23
  pick the the writen by ten sticks and my cork because to to
• 40:31
  be put in this situation. You've got the bare bones of a
• 40:34
  story, which has been worked out and worked at work that worked
• 40:38
  at didn't to, then have to kind of, you know, take all that out.
• 40:43
  Put your back against the wall and say we need to deliver 7
• 40:46
  scripts over story. That is going to, you know, fill
• 40:52
  em all this time. And to do.
• 40:56
  It's so bloody well to come up with such an actually twisty
• 41:00
  plot that is exciting and doesn't let up and again leaves
• 41:07
  it at the end of seven episodes going well.
• 41:08
  Okay, so that was a very long and there's a lot of padding in
• 41:11
  there, but what would I cut out? Not a thing to be able to pad.
• 41:15
  So so well, and with just extra bits of dialogue and next a
• 41:19
  little scenes and extra character moments, it's it
• 41:23
  really speaks to the genius. That was them, Terrance, dicks
• 41:27
  on Michael working together. I'm going to have as my last
• 41:33
  one, then I think this is the most convincing and authentic
• 41:41
  space control, that doctor who has ever pulled off.
• 41:44
  They tried it in 10th Planet. They tried it in Android
• 41:47
  Invasion, and I always feel like is it's a tiny set with a few
• 41:52
  extras in there. This feels And big and busy.
• 41:57
  Full of people, doing stuff all over the place and like the
• 42:01
  location Works in on it as well of all the pipes with let us
• 42:04
  going around. It feels it just feels like a
• 42:07
  genuine working environment. I don't think dr.
• 42:09
  He pulls that off very well but I absolutely believe it here.
• 42:16
  I'm going to pick so my next one is going to be the hard sci-fi
• 42:21
  element of it, if that's what you wanna call it hard sci-fi
• 42:23
  the fact that it is You know, it's pure science, fiction
• 42:27
  story, you know, is, you know, Alien Invasion, but it's not
• 42:30
  nearly Envision. It is, you know, Rockets going
• 42:32
  into space, that's or thing. But because it's played so
• 42:35
  realistically, you know, because it isn't just, I've got to
• 42:38
  welcome you back garden and oh, I've got a spare one.
• 42:41
  So I'll just nip into space. The fact that we have all of
• 42:43
  these key scenes, where they go talking about the, the fuel, the
• 42:51
  g-force, and all of that stuff, that just brings a level of we
• 42:55
  do. No Jason Thompson probably
• 42:56
  sitting there you know with a pen and paper ready to tell us
• 42:59
  exactly what please feel, free to because it sounds convincing
• 43:02
  enough I don't is it is and it really works because it's it is
• 43:06
  really thought about me, even if they have got it wrong, the
• 43:08
  thought about it, enough to have a stab at getting it wrong.
• 43:12
  So the other the whole Sci-fi element of it works for me.
• 43:18
  I think that what I saw seven there isn't it?
• 43:22
  I think the Chris Carter. Okay, well, my last thing then
• 43:25
  is Chris Carter sitting there in America watching is little TV
• 43:30
  show, Doctor, Who taking notes of ambassadors of death of
• 43:34
  government conspiracies, and, and aliens coming along, and all
• 43:38
  of this. And then a few years later goes,
• 43:41
  I'll tell you what. We're going to create a show
• 43:42
  called The X Files. And we're gonna, we're gonna
• 43:44
  grab all the paranoia. The so expertly conjured up in
• 43:48
  ambassador's of death. We're going to inject that into
• 43:50
  a 90's TV show. Once doctor is off the air and
• 43:54
  then they'll never know. We stole it from them, it's very
• 43:57
  exposed to this. Yes, the next concept and its
• 43:59
  successful for the same reasons that that the X-Files was yes
• 44:03
  and it's very new series as well because you have that really
• 44:05
  sort of like sudden and interpreting like well
• 44:07
  everything's wrapped up. So let's awful go.
• 44:10
  You don't? Well I'm going to keep going
• 44:12
  because I buy really, don't know how many beans make five.
• 44:14
  Sorry everyone that fast. So the next thing is going to be
• 44:19
  vegan because we have talked a lot about me again, and Regan
• 44:23
  should be taught a lot about more disciplined.
• 44:25
  Stoic should talk, but Regan just being that absolute perfect
• 44:29
  villain of having everything. You know, in one package, the
• 44:33
  smart, the style Sinha Stannis, the viciousness the technical
• 44:41
  capability, always just use this wonderful.
• 44:45
  Well, they're mine. The next one is going to be and
• 44:48
  I don't think I can stress enough how much he is underrated
• 44:53
  as an actor, Jon Pertwee in his third Doctor, Who story
• 44:57
  delivering a fucking Powerhouse performance in this the and yes,
• 45:02
  every single study gets the comedy bits, right?
• 45:05
  He gets the action, right? He gets the forceful moments,
• 45:08
  right? There are no signs at all.
• 45:11
  That he is new to this role. He is owning the show.
• 45:14
  He's amazingly. Absolutely, I mean wound up
• 45:17
  Assad. Seven output, go back to episode
• 45:19
  1, just look at that intensity when he's you know, slap any
• 45:22
  starting. I know what this mean.
• 45:24
  Fuck font think of it and write just he's coming open.
• 45:27
  Yeah, it's got the full range. It's got that water authority
• 45:30
  about them. That's the doctor.
• 45:32
  But he's also got that down Danish that you said, he's got
• 45:34
  that thoughtfulness at the end where he's thoughtful enough to
• 45:37
  say, yes, I know that you are wrong.
• 45:39
  I understand. Exactly says, yes, General.
• 45:42
  I understand that but I'm going to let you down gently because
• 45:46
  You know, you are ruined enough as it is now.
• 45:48
  You are literally popped deflated defeated.
• 45:52
  Your career has finished. You are completely written off
• 45:55
  but I'm not going to rub that in.
• 45:57
  I'm just going to let you down gently with her.
• 45:59
  Yes, I understand that you are anymore for anymore.
• 46:04
  Final one them. Go up one, Chef Keith, kept the
• 46:07
  best till last. The one thing that sets this
• 46:12
  story higher than any other story in the hole.
• 46:16
  Almost 60 years. Now, with Doctor Who Liz, Shaw's
• 46:20
  Hut, be single. Best thing about this talk
• 46:27
  about, but it's brilliant, it's great, it just sits on a head
• 46:34
  like a calf. Do in its own, right?
• 46:37
  That's the big finish box set. We need is the story of list,
• 46:41
  shows hat, force force. As I see it three times, I'm
• 46:44
  sure they'll make it so it's short letter.
• 46:49
  Roanoke, a gift or I will make a gift of our hat to, you know.
• 46:54
  Well, that just I don't think I could possibly praise our buses
• 46:58
  of life, any more than we have. You know, I think we got us a
• 47:01
  superb job if I say so myself face up.
• 47:06
  Do you know where we're heading next to you and me, possibly.
• 47:10
  Another is one that one story that you've said that you want
• 47:12
  to record with me Time of the Doctor.
• 47:20
  God. Yeah, do you like that?
• 47:23
  It has its moments. Oh, that's nice.
• 47:26
  What you said that? Nobody would Moffat, who you're
• 47:28
  right over it. Well, I mean there's there is
• 47:31
  some tough. Don't get us wrong.
• 47:32
  There's, there's some wheat in their heart, there's a lot of
• 47:35
  traffic as well. So Christ tied up.
• 47:38
  Three years worth of bloody plots in one extended dialogue
• 47:41
  scene, halfway through the story, that's got nothing to do
• 47:43
  with it. Sorry that's just out of 10.
• 47:48
  Just leaves me to say it's a pleasure as ever to talk with
• 47:51
  you. It really is and I look forward
• 47:54
  to holding your hand and heading to trenzalore very soon.
• 48:00
  Thank you very much. Thank you everyone for
• 48:02
  listening.